Latest / Ambitious Podcast / EP. 45: Mastering the Art of Podcasting for Business Growth with Hayleigh Hayhurst

Transcript

EP. 45: Mastering the Art of Podcasting for Business Growth with Hayleigh Hayhurst · Ambitious Podcast

• 0:08
  Welcome back to Ambitious and I am very excited for today's
• 0:11
  episode because obviously if you're listening to this, if
• 0:14
  you're watching this, this is a podcast and I have a lot of
• 0:17
  questions from you as to how do I start my own podcast?
• 0:21
  If I have a podcast, how do I make sure that it makes sense?
• 0:24
  Maybe for me as a brand, maybe I want to use this as a tool to be
• 0:28
  able to grow my business. How do I leverage my podcast to
• 0:31
  generate sales for me and all of the other questions we're going
• 0:34
  to be diving into today. And so I am absolutely honored
• 0:37
  to be joined today by Haley. Haley is somebody that I have
• 0:41
  the absolute pleasure of calling a client as well as a friend.
• 0:45
  And I really just want to pull back the curtain on everything
• 0:48
  that she knows about the one O 1 of really leveraging a podcast
• 0:52
  for you and for your business. She has helped clients to not
• 0:56
  only just do audio based podcast, she has helped people
• 0:59
  to do audio video, leveraging this as core content pillars and
• 1:04
  platforms for their businesses. She has helped people to
• 1:07
  generate sales from their podcast to blow up their brands.
• 1:10
  And might I mention, which is why I think she is an incredible
• 1:13
  resource. She's done this in a variety of
• 1:16
  industries. She has helped people not only
• 1:18
  in the business space to leverage sales for their
• 1:20
  podcast, but literally in multiple different genres of
• 1:23
  business. And so today we are getting into
• 1:26
  the nitty gritty of everything from promoting your podcast, the
• 1:30
  structure of it, the titles of it, the topics, how much do
• 1:33
  those matter? The name of your show, all of
• 1:35
  the things that we're going to look at to say, how can we
• 1:37
  leverage your show if you either are wanting to start a podcast
• 1:41
  or you currently have one to really take it to the next
• 1:43
  level. So without further ado, let's
• 1:46
  get into today's episode. All righty, you guys.
• 1:48
  Well, welcome back to Ambitious. I am so excited today to be
• 1:52
  joined by an incredible guest. We just finished wrapping on
• 1:56
  recording on her podcast and I am so excited for us because
• 2:00
  we're just both wrapped up and we're ready to go now.
• 2:02
  And so I can't wait to continue this conversation about all the
• 2:05
  101 of what you need to know about leveraging a podcast for
• 2:09
  your business to help you to scale and to tap into a even
• 2:13
  wider or even deeper with your existing audience.
• 2:16
  So, Haley, welcome to Ambitious. Thank you, I'm so excited to be
• 2:21
  here. I honestly am so excited to dive
• 2:24
  in. When I said like prepping for
• 2:26
  our show, I originally had like 6 pages of notes 'cause I know
• 2:29
  how much you know about podcasts.
• 2:31
  And I was like, how do I distill all of the things that I really
• 2:34
  want to unpack and make sure that people know?
• 2:35
  And so today for the high level, I really want to unpack like
• 2:40
  what is the do's and the don'ts? What actually matters when it
• 2:44
  comes to a podcast and how to leverage it?
• 2:46
  I don't know if you feel like this, but I feel like podcasts
• 2:48
  are massively on the rise in the sense of like compared to say
• 2:53
  3-4 years ago. It feels like there's way more
• 2:56
  than ever. Is that just like what I'm
• 2:58
  seeing or do you feel like that's also true on your side?
• 3:01
  No. I'm seeing that too.
• 3:02
  So I started my first podcast in 2018, so like way before the big
• 3:09
  rise of podcasting in 2020. And then I saw a ton of podcasts
• 3:12
  start during the pandemic and it was great, but a lot of them
• 3:17
  stopped because they stopped having so much time to be able
• 3:20
  to podcast. You know, we were also free and
• 3:22
  available during 2020. And then now the podcasts that
• 3:27
  have stuck around are seeing great results.
• 3:29
  And I think other business owners, especially I'm in the
• 3:32
  business space, so I'm seeing way more businesses start
• 3:36
  strategic podcasts now to really grow and connect with their
• 3:40
  audience. And so no, you're totally right.
• 3:42
  There is such a rise in podcasting right now, which
• 3:46
  obviously I love. Yeah, no, totally.
• 3:48
  And just like for you guys to know, like Haley does like when
• 3:52
  we're talking podcast management, we're not just
• 3:54
  talking light editing, OK? Like she does actual like full
• 3:57
  front to back management, which is why I wanted to have her on
• 4:01
  because she basically takes, you know, podcasts, chop those into
• 4:04
  cliffs for people to leverage on social, helps them to really
• 4:07
  optimize with everything that they're doing, to use this for a
• 4:09
  bunch of different reasons. And so, you know, Haley, for
• 4:13
  yourself, when it comes to someone having a podcast, like
• 4:16
  what would you say is a reason for someone to have a podcast or
• 4:20
  like what are kind of the intentions that they can
• 4:22
  leverage this for their business?
• 4:24
  Totally. So like I just said, I work
• 4:27
  specifically with business owners, mostly women.
• 4:29
  I do work with men, but I think my marketing just attracts more
• 4:32
  women. So I'm not mad about that.
• 4:35
  But I've seen so many businesses want to connect with their
• 4:39
  audience deeper in a way that's like different than they've ever
• 4:42
  done before. I think, as we were talking
• 4:45
  about on my show, short form content is not as easy as people
• 4:48
  think it is, right? I have such a hard time sitting
• 4:51
  down and recording like 30 tik toks.
• 4:55
  I've tried to start tik Toks a million times and it's just not
• 4:58
  for me. I'm a long form kind of girl.
• 5:00
  And so a lot of businesses are seeing the value and being able
• 5:04
  to have their CEO or if they are a smaller business like them, be
• 5:08
  able to streamline their time by sitting down for an hour and
• 5:12
  then outsourcing it to someone else who can cut it into clips
• 5:15
  and edit it. But also a big part of it is on
• 5:20
  TikTok on Instagram. While yes, those are short clips
• 5:25
  that people can find forever, it's really not as easy for them
• 5:29
  to get back to that at a later time.
• 5:31
  Like podcasting, podcasting with SEO, with everything.
• 5:36
  I have people listening to my very first episodes that I had
• 5:39
  like 3 years ago. People are still listening to
• 5:41
  those. But I can't say the same thing
• 5:43
  with the reels that I created three years ago.
• 5:46
  You know what I mean? It's just a so much of a more
• 5:50
  streamlined content creation process than anything else so.
• 5:55
  It's been a game changer in that bucket.
• 5:58
  Like I, I was saying to Haley, like when we record a show, we
• 6:03
  have let's just say like an hour episode and that hour episode
• 6:06
  gets made into 10 clips and then those 10 clips get dispersed on
• 6:10
  say four or five social media platforms.
• 6:12
  Well, that is now 1 long hour someone can listen to or watch
• 6:16
  on YouTube or listen to your headphones on your walk or
• 6:18
  whatever it might be. And then you now also have the
• 6:21
  ability to take those 10 clips and disperse those.
• 6:24
  So now you actually have 50 clips of your podcast all going
• 6:29
  out on social media within a seven day period of one week and
• 6:32
  then you do it again the next week.
• 6:33
  So when you really think about like the way that I looked at
• 6:35
  it, which kind of like pushed me over the edge, if you will, to
• 6:38
  starting the podcast was to see the potential of like all those
• 6:41
  seeds that were being planted. Like if you're going from I'm
• 6:45
  posting five days a week on Instagram and now you
• 6:47
  potentially with having one extra hour a week of filming,
• 6:50
  Max, obviously some of your clients even do half an hour
• 6:53
  episodes, right? Yeah.
• 6:55
  Yeah. So like even with 1/2 an hour
• 6:56
  episode, thinking about chopping that, let's just say into five
• 6:59
  clips or to 8 clips and dispersing those.
• 7:02
  Imagine what would happen to your business or your brand if
• 7:05
  you went from five touch points with your audience to 50 touch
• 7:08
  points with with the audience or with the platforms in a given
• 7:10
  seven day period. So like when I started to kind
• 7:12
  of see the numbers like that, I was like, this is literally a no
• 7:15
  brainer. I don't know why I'm not already
• 7:17
  doing this. And I think one of the biggest
• 7:20
  bottlenecks, if I'm going to be honest, was the thought of like
• 7:23
  the production side of it, because there's a lot that goes
• 7:28
  into a podcast that I don't think most people recognize.
• 7:31
  Like obviously we've got like the bootstrapped podcast, which
• 7:34
  is like you, your microphone and like, you know, in a van on the
• 7:37
  side of a hill recording like 100% that's, you know, an option
• 7:42
  from a set perspective. But even if you do that, you
• 7:44
  still have post editing and you still have chopping into clips
• 7:47
  and writing captions and all the pieces.
• 7:49
  So talk to me about production of a show like, yeah, what do
• 7:53
  you recommend for someone to have success with a podcast?
• 7:56
  Like, what do they really need? And then what would be the ideal
• 7:59
  situation that you would want someone to have?
• 8:02
  OK, I love this question. And it's almost making me laugh
• 8:06
  because when I did start my business like 5 1/2 years ago,
• 8:09
  five years ago, video podcasts weren't around.
• 8:13
  And at that time, people still came to me with like, how am I
• 8:16
  going to record this? Like the production side, and I
• 8:19
  can't even wrap my head around it.
• 8:21
  And I'm like, OK, we'll just sit in your closet with a
• 8:23
  microphone. The clothes around you will make
• 8:26
  sure that it's soundproof and like, you'll be fine.
• 8:28
  There won't be any echo. It'll be fine.
• 8:30
  And then people started seeing the value of video podcasts and
• 8:34
  then they wanted to get on YouTube and I was still getting
• 8:37
  the same questions like how am I going to record this?
• 8:40
  How am I going to have guests on my show and make sure that their
• 8:42
  video is good? So I think that the goal post
• 8:45
  keeps moving for like production quality.
• 8:48
  Of course, there's people who still, I have a client who she
• 8:51
  has a great podcast. She has a really cute closet and
• 8:55
  she records in there. And so like no one would know
• 8:58
  that that was her closet, but it is.
• 9:00
  But like really, I think that the production of podcasting, it
• 9:05
  always does change. But the content that you're
• 9:08
  talking about, like the words you're saying, that is the most
• 9:12
  important part that has been around forever.
• 9:15
  So let's just talk about for business owners like what is
• 9:19
  important to go into a podcasting or podcast set or
• 9:22
  podcast content, whatever it may be.
• 9:25
  Number one, of course, great content, like planned out
• 9:28
  content, content that your audience is asking for that
• 9:32
  aligns with your business. And I'm sure we'll talk about
• 9:35
  this a little bit later, but podcast strategy, having a
• 9:39
  podcast in itself is not a strategy.
• 9:41
  I'm sorry to break it to. You people are dying inside.
• 9:45
  They're like, oh damn, I thought I could just have a podcast and
• 9:48
  put it up and that would be enough.
• 9:49
  Right. And so that is actually a really
• 9:51
  common thing. But I I'm like, no, it's not.
• 9:55
  And I wish it was. I wish it was.
• 9:56
  And back in 2018, it absolutely was.
• 9:59
  Yeah, right. That would make life so much
• 10:01
  easier. But so obviously having great
• 10:03
  content and then, you know, simple video and then being able
• 10:08
  to have it in a way that is easy to edit, you can hand it off to
• 10:11
  an editor, whatever it may be, but then you can leverage it as
• 10:16
  clips. And so I have still clients and
• 10:19
  people come to me who are resistant to video and just want
• 10:22
  an audio podcast, which is fine. You can still have audio
• 10:25
  podcast, there's great audio podcast only out there, but
• 10:29
  you're missing a whole different way to reach your audience if
• 10:34
  you don't turn on your video. So I think it's really just
• 10:37
  better to click on your video, have it whatever the background
• 10:41
  may be, but you're going to be able to reach a whole new
• 10:46
  audience just from that one simple change.
• 10:50
  Yeah, I mean, I think I, I was saying to Haley, like one of the
• 10:54
  things that was a big delay in me doing a podcast, which might
• 10:58
  seem silly, was literally the set, which was like the actual
• 11:02
  space and, and, and the tech of it all of like the the camera
• 11:06
  and the lights and all of it. And like it's literally just all
• 11:08
  purchased off of Amazon, camera included.
• 11:10
  Like everything is like you can put it all in a cart and have it
• 11:12
  in your house in the next 48 hours.
• 11:15
  But I think if I'm going to be honest, the deeper level of it
• 11:18
  was the fact that like I didn't want to put out something that
• 11:20
  wasn't like, quote UN quote professional or quote UN quote
• 11:23
  curated or, you know, really frankly, going to be honest,
• 11:26
  perfect before I put it out. And I was saying to Haley that
• 11:30
  one of the biggest pieces of regret that I have is that I
• 11:33
  didn't start it sooner because I think, you know, to her point,
• 11:37
  which I 100% agree with, I think it's about the content.
• 11:40
  Like I think it really is about, you know, what people are
• 11:42
  learning and what you're adding as value to them.
• 11:46
  But the other thing that I've been kind of navigating around
• 11:49
  production, it was interesting. So I, I was traveling and I
• 11:52
  realized that I had one of my peers microphones and I was
• 11:57
  listening. I audit my own podcast to say,
• 11:59
  like, do I find it boring? Because if I do, then I just
• 12:01
  switch up the way that I'm, I'm recording it.
• 12:03
  And so sometimes I'll be in the car and I'll listen to you for
• 12:05
  like 20 minutes and see kind of what I think.
• 12:08
  And it was interesting because I found when my audio quality was
• 12:11
  bad, I actually didn't want to listen to the episode as much.
• 12:15
  Like I found like when it was kind of not really great quality
• 12:18
  and audio, it was not compelling me as much.
• 12:21
  And I'm curious, like obviously you can start a podcast with
• 12:25
  basically like your iPhone if you really wanted to and your
• 12:28
  headphones if you needed. But I'm curious in your
• 12:30
  standpoint, like do you think that good quality video or good
• 12:34
  quality audio does actually increase the amount that people
• 12:38
  consume or like the even maybe frequency of how much people
• 12:41
  might consume your show? Absolutely, 100%.
• 12:44
  I do. I think that good audio quality
• 12:47
  is the most important thing. And if you're going to do video,
• 12:51
  you should do it right. I mean quote, UN quote, right?
• 12:54
  I mean, having good production as a business owner really does
• 13:00
  make you stand out from the other podcasts because you just
• 13:04
  see more professional, you see more put together.
• 13:06
  And if your business, the reason you're starting your podcast is
• 13:09
  to grow your business 100% having better quality is going
• 13:14
  to help you. And so the same with me, if I'm
• 13:18
  listening to a podcast and the audio is weird or just off or
• 13:21
  like echoey or whatever it is, I choose to turn it off.
• 13:26
  And there's so many podcasts out there now.
• 13:27
  And that sounds harsh, right? And I don't mean it to sound
• 13:30
  harsh, but the audio quality is very important to giving your
• 13:34
  listeners a great experience. Same with filler words.
• 13:38
  I mean, there's so many AI tools now that you can just clear out
• 13:41
  those filler words. Some of them are necessary, but
• 13:44
  I do like it when I'm able to remove all of those to just
• 13:48
  clean it up a little bit and save, save your listener time.
• 13:51
  I mean, it's great they want to spend an hour listening to you.
• 13:55
  Really don't take that for granted.
• 13:57
  Really, really make sure that it is worth their time, content
• 14:00
  wise and quality wise. Well, that kind of brings us to
• 14:04
  content, right? Which I know that like there's
• 14:06
  all all the sides that we could dive into when someone's mapping
• 14:10
  out content like I, I definitely will share kind of the one O 1
• 14:13
  of what we do. But I'm curious, where do you
• 14:16
  start with your clients around mapping out what they talk
• 14:19
  about, why they talk about that? Like from my knowledge of some
• 14:24
  of the people that I've had, you know, podcast conversations with
• 14:26
  about their shows, they'll just sit and be like, you know, what
• 14:29
  should we talk about? And they'll have a random idea
• 14:31
  about something and they'll just record on that.
• 14:35
  And so I'm curious, like, obviously with your clients, you
• 14:37
  go into data and all these things like how much of the
• 14:40
  content is really based off of the the creator or the host kind
• 14:43
  of like, you know, inspiration, ideation of whatever they want
• 14:46
  to talk about. And how much to you like to your
• 14:49
  point of using this for business is strategy like we always hear
• 14:52
  about strategy of Instagram, strategy of you know, TikTok and
• 14:56
  things like that, but what really is the content strategy
• 15:00
  of podcasts? Yeah, that is a great question.
• 15:03
  I get that all the time. It's like, what does strategy
• 15:05
  mean when it comes to podcasting?
• 15:07
  Like is that just a made-up term?
• 15:09
  To me, a podcast strategy is almost where your business and
• 15:13
  your podcasts are married and they have the same goals, right?
• 15:16
  They're going to the same end goal.
• 15:19
  So what I see in a lot of podcasts now, it's a common
• 15:22
  mistake where people will have a podcast that they're just to
• 15:27
  your point, I want to talk about this fun topic.
• 15:30
  I find this really interesting. OK, Let's just give it like an
• 15:33
  example of dogs, right? Like my dog is right behind me.
• 15:36
  We'll just say that they have a podcast where they just talk
• 15:38
  about dogs. I love that there are podcasts
• 15:42
  that and then their business, let's say they are a business
• 15:46
  coach working with, let's just say you know how you work with
• 15:50
  scaling women, OK, two different audiences that those are going
• 15:54
  to reach. So if you want your podcast to
• 15:56
  work with your business, they do need to work towards the same
• 15:59
  goal. So that to me is what the
• 16:02
  strategy piece is. And then the content that goes
• 16:04
  into it, I'll say about 70% of it should be strategy.
• 16:09
  About 30% should be what you truly do want to talk about in
• 16:12
  relation to the podcast of like the bigger strategy topic.
• 16:17
  Because if you're not having fun with your podcast, you're not
• 16:20
  going to continue doing it. So if you want to pop in a solo
• 16:23
  episode about what you've been up to or a solo episode about
• 16:27
  life changes or whatever, it is amazing.
• 16:30
  Do those because that's really how your audience is going to
• 16:33
  get to know you on a deeper level.
• 16:35
  But most of the content should be working towards whatever that
• 16:40
  goal is that you have set. So the first question I ask any
• 16:43
  client that I'm working with on sales calls or once they sign is
• 16:47
  what are the three things that you want to achieve with your
• 16:49
  podcast? Like, let's think short term,
• 16:51
  like 3 months. What would make you feel
• 16:53
  successful as a podcaster in the next three months and then year,
• 16:59
  what do you want to achieve in a year?
• 17:02
  And then what's the ultimate goal for your podcast?
• 17:05
  Success and podcasting means so many different things to so many
• 17:09
  different people. I will never get the same answer
• 17:12
  twice. I have clients that want to be
• 17:14
  like talk show hosts, and then I have ones that just want to be
• 17:17
  able to have their show to maybe reach a few new people and, you
• 17:22
  know, inspire them to do something.
• 17:24
  Those goals are so different, but success to them are going to
• 17:27
  be different things. And so that is the first thing I
• 17:30
  always want to know, what are your goals and what will make
• 17:33
  you specifically feel successful?
• 17:37
  Well, I think for me, it's when people ask me, I have clients
• 17:41
  who said, can you audit my podcast in a sense of what you
• 17:43
  see, What do you think of it? Is it good?
• 17:46
  Can I refine it? And when we talk about goals, I
• 17:49
  kind of categorize them into three buckets, which is like
• 17:53
  personal in the sense of like it's really just not really
• 17:56
  necessarily connected to like a business objective.
• 17:58
  It's still in under the umbrella of your business.
• 18:01
  But it might be just like a trust building thing where it
• 18:03
  really is not necessarily directed to sales or any of
• 18:07
  these pieces, but really just like depth with your audience.
• 18:10
  The other one that I look at is brand expansion, which is really
• 18:13
  where you'll see, in my opinion, quite a few hosts that are very
• 18:16
  guest heavy in the sense of like, it's really meant to
• 18:18
  basically have cross exposure getting, you know, basically
• 18:22
  your face in front of other people's audiences.
• 18:24
  There's a lot of leverage that way.
• 18:26
  And the third one, which I see, which I'm not, I would say as
• 18:29
  big of a fan of going all in on, which is sales, where you see
• 18:33
  basically people who are using this as like their top of funnel
• 18:35
  sales engine. And you know, we talked about
• 18:38
  this on your show as well, that can get very messy because
• 18:43
  people can often times go too far with that, that it really
• 18:46
  takes away from the essence of why somebody is listening to you
• 18:50
  or watching you to begin with. And so, you know, if we think
• 18:54
  about going deep with your audience, getting a little bit
• 18:56
  more personal, maybe more brand visibility and getting that, or
• 18:59
  maybe we're looking at the aspect of sales.
• 19:02
  I feel like you must get this question all the time with
• 19:04
  prospective clients, but like if someone's going to see momentum
• 19:08
  with their podcast, how long does that take?
• 19:11
  Because I am of a firm belief that a podcast, while you can
• 19:16
  have short term wins and I'm like happy to kind of share, you
• 19:18
  know, what that looks like and stuff for us.
• 19:21
  What I would say is I really look at podcast as a long term
• 19:24
  play, which is like, this is a matter of you planting seeds
• 19:28
  every single week. And while, yes, something may
• 19:30
  happen in the next month, it may take six months, It may take two
• 19:33
  years before you really start to see the podcast take off, in my
• 19:36
  opinion. But I'm really curious because
• 19:39
  obviously you have insane results for your client's
• 19:41
  podcast when someone's setting their expectation of starting
• 19:45
  this and they want to start a podcast or maybe they have a
• 19:48
  podcast, but they're not seeing results right now.
• 19:50
  How long does it take for a podcast to become quote UN quote
• 19:54
  successful or start to see those markers happen?
• 19:57
  Yeah, OK, you're going to hate this answer.
• 20:00
  It really depends on what the podcast is about, right?
• 20:03
  I'm. Right there with you.
• 20:04
  I'm right there with you. They might not like this answer,
• 20:06
  but I'm right there with you. No.
• 20:09
  So it is absolutely a long game, right?
• 20:12
  Podcasting is not what you're going to have success with
• 20:14
  overnight. And there are those outliers
• 20:17
  like influencers who start podcasts or even call her daddy
• 20:21
  wasn't successful overnight, right?
• 20:23
  It was it was successful, but it did take years to get to the
• 20:27
  point where she is now. And so it definitely takes time
• 20:31
  to have a successful podcast. When I ask people what their
• 20:35
  goals are to my last answer, like if they tell me that they
• 20:38
  want to make money from it and that's their number one goal, it
• 20:41
  kind of does raise some red flags for me just because
• 20:45
  podcast advertising, I don't think pays as much as most
• 20:48
  people think it does. And so when I this is a tip for
• 20:52
  anyone who has a business that wants to start a podcast,
• 20:55
  prioritize running your own ads rather than being so quick to
• 21:00
  run other people's ads like HelloFresh or those other brands
• 21:04
  that really promote and podcasting your offers.
• 21:09
  As a business owner, most likely I can almost say 100% of the
• 21:14
  time we'll make you more money than running ads in your shell
• 21:19
  almost 100% of the time. So when it comes to like success
• 21:23
  and like the ramp up of a podcast, I would give it about a
• 21:27
  year plus to be able to start seeing those results.
• 21:31
  I was just listening to Alex Hermosies book and he had a
• 21:35
  podcast for four years before it got traction. 4 years.
• 21:39
  And I mean look at him now like yeah, people love his show.
• 21:44
  They listen all the time. It's like a top show now, but it
• 21:47
  took four years for him to get there.
• 21:49
  And so along with your podcast, it really you should be building
• 21:54
  your brand around it. You should be showing up online.
• 21:57
  A podcast can be so much more than just a podcast.
• 22:00
  If you make it back, it can become its own brand, kind of
• 22:03
  like what you were saying with Ambitious.
• 22:05
  I mean, this could be its own brand one day.
• 22:08
  And that's kind of the way that you are building it with having
• 22:11
  its own Instagram, having its own branding, right?
• 22:13
  It ties into your business, but at the same time it could be its
• 22:17
  own thing later on. And so really that does go back
• 22:21
  to what goals you wanna achieve with your show.
• 22:23
  But I would say give it some time and just look at the data,
• 22:29
  see what's working, see what's not working, and really be
• 22:33
  asking your audience what they wanna hear.
• 22:36
  Yeah, well, I mean, I was, I was sharing with Haley that you
• 22:39
  know, in the first several episodes of of ambitious, we had
• 22:43
  sales come in that we were frankly, if I'm going to be
• 22:45
  honest, I was just like put my head down and record.
• 22:47
  I'm not going to look up from this thing for at least two
• 22:49
  years was my original perspective around it because I
• 22:52
  knew it was a long term play. But then to have like within the
• 22:55
  first six weeks of it launching to have like, you know, 150,
• 22:58
  two, $100,000 with the sales coming in, we were like, okay,
• 23:01
  whoa. Because this means that the
• 23:03
  depth and the connection with people did have a lot of
• 23:05
  potential. But I so agree, like I think
• 23:08
  that if people are really looking at this when they're
• 23:11
  doing it as a long term play and you can get your mind and your
• 23:14
  expectation around that in a fairway, it allows you to really
• 23:18
  have the success with that long term.
• 23:20
  Up to your point, you know, with us, with ambitious, the goal was
• 23:24
  not to use this to sell. Like this is not you don't hear
• 23:28
  me pitch a lot. You don't hear me offer, you
• 23:30
  know, my offer this, my offer that.
• 23:32
  We want it even for social proof.
• 23:34
  It's anonymous for a reason because we're just making it
• 23:36
  about the story and the value and the insights or the wisdom
• 23:40
  around that client, not about them.
• 23:41
  And you know, go seek them out and all of these things.
• 23:44
  And so I've just found that the sales can also indirectly happen
• 23:49
  by the level of depth that you're providing to people.
• 23:52
  And I actually listen to several shows that have their own ads,
• 23:55
  which is like, hey, we're selling this course right now.
• 23:58
  If you want this promo, get it now kind of thing.
• 24:00
  And they have preset ads, they just drop into the shows
• 24:02
  depending on what's going on when that thing launches.
• 24:06
  And they've had a lot of success with that by basically bringing
• 24:08
  the business back to their own business rather than getting
• 24:12
  outside advertisements for their show.
• 24:15
  And so, you know, when we're thinking about looking at this
• 24:19
  in the sense of like a business growth lens, what do you see
• 24:23
  with podcasts in the business space that's not working in that
• 24:28
  effort? So like, what are you seeing on
• 24:30
  other people's shows? Maybe you're seeing it on my
• 24:33
  show. If so, like I'm fully OK to be
• 24:35
  on the chopping block. What do you see on shows that
• 24:38
  you're like, I can tell this obviously is a business
• 24:40
  intention, but like this is not going to help you.
• 24:43
  This is not doing anything for you.
• 24:45
  Is there certain practices or patterns you see on business
• 24:48
  podcasts that are actually potentially tapping them from
• 24:51
  seeing growth? Yeah, there's a couple and no,
• 24:54
  Kate, your show is amazing. I love, I love listening to your
• 24:57
  podcast. So a couple things that I
• 24:59
  noticed in shows that they do want this business growth, but
• 25:05
  they're not getting it. They're not seeing the results
• 25:07
  #1 sometimes they're weighing too heavily on guests.
• 25:11
  I mean, you're the only constant in your podcast, right?
• 25:14
  You have solo episodes and then you have guests come and go
• 25:16
  every week. Sometimes people have their
• 25:18
  guests come back, but most shows don't.
• 25:20
  You know, it's just a one time guest.
• 25:23
  And when you lean too heavily on having guests on your show, it's
• 25:27
  hard for the audience to know things about you and your
• 25:30
  business. And that was the intention all
• 25:33
  along, right? To connect with the audience
• 25:35
  deeper for your own show and for your own business.
• 25:39
  So that's number one. Guests make it really easy to
• 25:42
  have a podcast. So I totally get why businesses
• 25:44
  do that. For sure, it's way easier than
• 25:47
  solo. Yeah, I mean, even from you.
• 25:50
  I've been podcasting for so long and like, whenever I record a
• 25:53
  solo episode, I like, stare off the screen and it's awkward.
• 25:57
  That's why it's edited, right? It can be really awkward.
• 26:00
  Yeah. So number one, that would be
• 26:02
  what I would say. Another thing would be really
• 26:07
  not having clear defined goals. So I know I keep talking about
• 26:10
  goals through this, but really it's important to be clear on
• 26:13
  that even if you don't have someone helping you with your
• 26:16
  show, because every week you should be putting in the steps
• 26:21
  to be able to get to that ultimate goal.
• 26:23
  And so if you're having random episodes, I'll give you an
• 26:26
  example. So I had a client come to me and
• 26:30
  she had a financial podcast for women over 40.
• 26:33
  And I mean, it was great. It's like top 1%, but she wasn't
• 26:36
  having any sales from it. And so one thing that we looked
• 26:40
  at when I was auditing her show was she had no calls to action.
• 26:44
  None. People didn't know where to go
• 26:46
  to or next. And once she started putting in
• 26:49
  those calls to action that were clear and not like, you can
• 26:52
  follow me here and sign up for my newsletter here and make sure
• 26:55
  you connect with me here. And all these different things
• 26:58
  like overwhelming them with calls to action.
• 27:01
  She made tons of sales right after people were hungry to work
• 27:05
  with her. They just didn't know how.
• 27:07
  And so that would be another piece of not having those goals
• 27:10
  and not having this clear calls to action that will get people
• 27:14
  to get out of the podcast platforms and onto your
• 27:17
  platform. If I could share one more, I
• 27:20
  would say not building a brand alongside it.
• 27:23
  So not having an Instagram account, not having places where
• 27:27
  people can go for that call to action, whether that be a
• 27:30
  newsletter, whether that be a YouTube channel, people want
• 27:34
  both sides. They want the audio of you, they
• 27:37
  want the video, they want the podcast, but they also want to
• 27:41
  see what you're posting in other places.
• 27:44
  I know for me, whenever I find a new podcast, I love listening.
• 27:48
  I'll listen tons of episodes, but of course I want to see what
• 27:51
  they're posting on their Instagram.
• 27:52
  I mean, we're nosy. So if I'm listening to someone
• 27:55
  on Apple Podcast or Spotify, like, what does this person look
• 27:59
  like beyond their logo? So having a place for people to
• 28:02
  come and connect with you and be able to get into your world even
• 28:06
  deeper, that's a place where I find that a lot of podcasters
• 28:10
  are using it for business kind of lack.
• 28:11
  They kind of lean too heavily on one side or the other.
• 28:14
  Well, like even in that note of brand, right, Because I think,
• 28:19
  you know, a lot of people would love like if you we take like,
• 28:21
  for example, like a call her Daddy or Diary of a CEO or, you
• 28:25
  know, any of the major podcast, people would love for it to be
• 28:29
  its own brand. But again, like podcasts are a
• 28:32
  decent amount of work in the sense of like the prep that you
• 28:35
  put in the recording, the post production and all the pieces.
• 28:38
  And so like, if someone's like, OK, like I'm going to put in
• 28:40
  this work, I'm going to put in the time or the effort of the
• 28:42
  investment. What are key elements in your
• 28:45
  opinion that helps somebody to build brand with a podcast?
• 28:50
  So like for US, one of the things that we have really
• 28:54
  focused on is, again, not making it like the Kate Perkovic show
• 28:57
  because it really is not meant to be about me.
• 28:59
  It's meant to be about value that I can just be like
• 29:01
  basically the the translator or the middle person between the
• 29:05
  information and getting it to you.
• 29:06
  So that was one of the pieces We also looked at really having the
• 29:09
  core values almost like you have for a business and core values
• 29:13
  and beliefs around, you know what we share and why we share
• 29:16
  it and kind of like core elements of success, if you
• 29:19
  will. We also very similar to a
• 29:21
  content strategy for for marketing, also have like
• 29:24
  buckets of topics, right? So like, you're not going to
• 29:26
  hear me, maybe you'll hear my dogs because I recorded my
• 29:30
  basement. But other than that, you're not
• 29:32
  going to have episodes of me talking about my dogs because
• 29:35
  again, the subject matter has to fall within these buckets that
• 29:38
  make it kind of a intentional. And so I think people also go
• 29:41
  back to brands they know that they can rely on because they
• 29:44
  have consistency in what they talk about, what they believe
• 29:47
  and like what they stand for. And usually brands are connected
• 29:51
  to some overarching mission or belief or kind of like, you
• 29:55
  know, label that you self identify with.
• 29:57
  And so even when we when we named the show, we were really
• 30:00
  intentional to say, OK, well, if we name it, you know, we had a
• 30:03
  bunch of different ideas of, you know, the CEO next door and, you
• 30:07
  know, all of these different things or like different names
• 30:10
  that we had come up with, but none of them really embodied the
• 30:14
  value of the person that was going to be listening.
• 30:16
  And we were like, OK, like, who is that person?
• 30:18
  And we chose the name to be a brand name, not an SEO name.
• 30:22
  And so like, I have a client who has a really successful podcast
• 30:26
  and her podcast has gotten a lot of growth simply based off the
• 30:30
  SEO of the name. And it's just something that
• 30:32
  people often ask around brand, right?
• 30:34
  Which is like, how do I decide to go the brand way?
• 30:37
  Should I be SEO heavy? And so like, how does someone
• 30:40
  navigate the brand decision and how to build brand when they're
• 30:45
  trying to either launch or grow an existing podcast?
• 30:49
  Yeah, OK. I love that.
• 30:51
  And that's a really good example of you can go the SEO route or
• 30:55
  you can pick. So the podcast I just launched
• 30:58
  is called Podcast Cafe. Not really a lot of SEO there,
• 31:01
  but I wanted to give the example of, you know, I'm sitting down
• 31:05
  with someone with a cup of coffee and we're talking about
• 31:07
  podcasting. That's why I went with that.
• 31:10
  But the client I was just mentioning where she has a great
• 31:14
  SEO name. I mean, people search this all
• 31:17
  the time that are her ideal listeners.
• 31:20
  And I think the reason that she did that specifically wasn't
• 31:23
  necessarily for the SEO, but it was just what she was thinking
• 31:26
  about at that time. So like, what is this podcast
• 31:29
  going to be about? It's about this.
• 31:31
  So very straightforward. So to the point of brand
• 31:35
  building, podcasting just gives you so much content that you're
• 31:39
  able to then connect with people so much deeper and really like
• 31:43
  get in front of them in a longer way than you've ever been able
• 31:46
  to before. So focusing on the clips, that
• 31:49
  really is a brand building activity.
• 31:51
  Focusing on the content piece of having, like I said, those solo
• 31:56
  episodes that are really strong, like you being a strong host,
• 31:59
  that's a brand building activity.
• 32:01
  And then also being able to guide, yes, strategic guests
• 32:06
  through amazing conversations. That's also a brand building
• 32:09
  activity. So I think just strengthen
• 32:13
  podcasting, which is something that comes with time.
• 32:16
  You're not going to be a great podcast host from day one unless
• 32:19
  you've had like ATV show in the past or like a radio show.
• 32:23
  I hope, like I said, people listen to my first episodes,
• 32:25
  which honestly is kind of embarrassing because that's a
• 32:28
  long time ago and I'm definitely a different host now than I was
• 32:31
  then. No, no question it changes
• 32:34
  within like 2. Weeks I was a fisheye.
• 32:37
  Fisheye, fisheye fish lens. Anyways, I was like, I used the
• 32:41
  wrong lens. As I said, I bought everything
• 32:42
  off Amazon and it was mainly, if I'm going to be really
• 32:44
  transparent, you guys, it was me and YouTube at like 11:00 at
• 32:47
  night and I bought a bunch of random crap and got it sent to
• 32:50
  my house. And so I remember when it was
• 32:51
  sent off to editors basically that do the equivalent of what
• 32:54
  Haley does. Our team, which by the way, dear
• 32:56
  Kells Agency and aha, a sister agency, are the two agencies we
• 33:00
  use. They're amazing.
• 33:01
  And we sent them the clips and they were like, why do you look
• 33:03
  like that? Like white?
• 33:06
  Why is your face like that? And I was like, my face, like
• 33:08
  what? It's a camera.
• 33:09
  They're like, no, like there's something not right here.
• 33:11
  And so the first couple episodes were terrible, just terrible.
• 33:14
  Yeah, that's OK. That's OK.
• 33:16
  We grow as hosts. And so definitely being open to
• 33:19
  that growth is also a really important thing.
• 33:22
  So I love that you've got a new camera.
• 33:25
  Yeah, we got a new lens. Let's just update you guys.
• 33:27
  We got a new lens. We got a new everything.
• 33:29
  We're good to go now. I wish I was very 2018, isn't
• 33:33
  it? That was the thing then that
• 33:35
  makes. Me feel better, Haley, That
• 33:37
  makes me feel better. So even if it wasn't, I'm gonna
• 33:39
  hang on to that because that's what makes me feel better.
• 33:42
  It was actually the video was not ideal and then someone
• 33:45
  edited the settings for me and I don't know how to use these
• 33:48
  cameras or any of the stuff that I bought.
• 33:50
  I just purchased it and it got delivered and I plugged
• 33:52
  everything into an outlet and they got it actually properly
• 33:55
  set up for me. And I was like, I did not know
• 33:56
  that that camera could do that quality.
• 33:58
  So now I almost wish it wasn't so clear because when I have
• 34:01
  breakouts and stuff, it is crystal, it is HD.
• 34:04
  It is wild, wild. OK, so I, we now kind of have a
• 34:09
  little bit of an idea of like the ideas around creating topics
• 34:12
  around the podcast. Talk to me about like, say
• 34:16
  someone's like, I want to have a podcast, but I don't have time
• 34:18
  to manage it. What are we looking at like
• 34:22
  spectrum wise of the different levels of outsourcing
• 34:25
  production? Because I think sometimes people
• 34:27
  are wanting to do a podcast as a scaling business, but they're
• 34:31
  like, I do not have time barely to even record it, let alone
• 34:33
  edit it and do all of these things.
• 34:35
  What does that look like to delegate it?
• 34:37
  Like what are some of the things that basically would be taken
• 34:39
  off someone's plate if they were just able to give it away?
• 34:42
  Yeah, honestly, podcast editing is the easiest thing to delegate
• 34:46
  because then you still have control over whatever you want
• 34:49
  to have control over. So I write my show notes for my
• 34:52
  clients and I also will create them graphics along with
• 34:55
  editing. But if you just want someone to
• 34:58
  edit your show, that will save you like 2 hours a week just
• 35:02
  from that. Then if you want to go a step
• 35:05
  further and have someone write the show notes, you always have
• 35:08
  the ability to go back and like proof them, edit them however
• 35:11
  much you want. But it is nice to have that
• 35:13
  layout there. And then a step further, if
• 35:16
  you're like, yeah, that sounds great.
• 35:17
  But I really just don't want to do anything with my podcast.
• 35:20
  I just want to sit down, press record and like send it off,
• 35:23
  which tons of people do. So there's no shame.
• 35:28
  Yeah. I mean, it's great to be able
• 35:29
  just to be able to do the content creation, the fun part,
• 35:33
  but the episode planning and and then the the interviews, that's
• 35:38
  really what a lot of podcasters strive for.
• 35:41
  And that's all things that you can outsource.
• 35:45
  I always say for my clients, I can do everything but be you.
• 35:48
  I cannot sit down and look like you and sound like you.
• 35:51
  So anything other than that 100% can be outsourced.
• 35:55
  So even the clips that we're talking about, people will cut
• 35:58
  the clips for you and then send them to you and you can approve
• 36:02
  them. So you still have control over
• 36:03
  everything, but it just depends on what level you want to
• 36:07
  outsource. So is it just truly a podcast
• 36:10
  editor or is it a podcast strategist, or is it someone who
• 36:14
  completely will like run the whole podcast account for you
• 36:17
  and you don't have to do a single thing?
• 36:19
  Well, on the note of the clips too, which is something I
• 36:22
  definitely wanted to ask you because I feel like there's
• 36:24
  like, you know, people who are like, I don't want to do video.
• 36:26
  I don't have to get like get ready to film and all of these
• 36:29
  things, right? What is your opinion on video or
• 36:32
  no video? Because I know obviously it is
• 36:34
  leverageable to earlier point, you're going to be able to tap
• 36:36
  into an audience that you may not otherwise be able to tap
• 36:40
  into. My opinion is wherever I can
• 36:43
  push someone to get on video, Go get your butt on video.
• 36:46
  Because the chopping up of those clips and that whole production
• 36:50
  flow that you do for clients and that we use is, in my opinion,
• 36:54
  so insanely impactful when you think about one hour of filming
• 36:57
  or half an hour of filming and the amount of content you can
• 36:59
  get out. And for me to think about
• 37:01
  someone recording the same equivalent of a podcast and not
• 37:03
  doing that blows my mind because they just would love to not have
• 37:07
  to get ready. What do you think?
• 37:09
  Like video, if you could like, say, like honestly, if I could
• 37:12
  recommend Blank, would it be like, hey, it doesn't really
• 37:14
  matter? Or do you think it's like do
• 37:16
  video if you can at any point? I recommend video 100% of the
• 37:21
  time. It gives you so many new
• 37:23
  opportunities. And I love reality TV, OK, I
• 37:27
  really do. I love Real Housewives.
• 37:29
  It's like my favorite show of all time.
• 37:31
  And honestly, if you are feeling self-conscious about your video
• 37:35
  setup, whatever it is, go look at some of their podcasts.
• 37:38
  They're literally in their kitchens just recording and they
• 37:41
  have some of the top podcasts out there for people love
• 37:44
  reality TV. And so they're, after COVID, I
• 37:48
  can feel like a lot of things changed and there really is 2
• 37:50
  directions you can go that I want to talk about because after
• 37:54
  COVID, people were working from home.
• 37:56
  We know that we're working from home.
• 37:58
  It's really, I'm travelling right now.
• 38:00
  So I have a bed behind me. Like I don't think that's going
• 38:03
  to be abrupt to anyone. No one's going to be like, Oh my
• 38:05
  God, just recording our bedroom. Like, yeah, a lot of us are
• 38:08
  doing that. A lot of us are.
• 38:11
  So really there's no judgement in just turning on your camera
• 38:16
  and being able to have all of this new content, even if no one
• 38:20
  listens to your podcast, like the content that you'll get from
• 38:23
  it, that's worth it in itself. Honestly, yes.
• 38:27
  The other direction that I see a lot of people go is recording in
• 38:30
  studios if they do in person interviews.
• 38:32
  So absolutely, there's studios in every single city that you
• 38:36
  can go to sit down. They have all the equipment.
• 38:39
  You don't have to buy a single thing.
• 38:41
  Sometimes they'll even do some light editing for you.
• 38:44
  Of course, you're paying for this time to be able to record
• 38:47
  in the studio, but if video quality is what's holding you
• 38:51
  back, go to one of these places. Even if you're traveling there
• 38:55
  in every single city, you can just rent them.
• 38:58
  And then if that is what's holding you back from turning on
• 39:01
  your camera, do that, because you're never, ever going to
• 39:05
  regret having the video contents.
• 39:09
  Agreed. What other medium are you going
• 39:11
  to be able to turn this video into a blog into clips into, you
• 39:18
  know, short, short, whatever it is.
• 39:21
  You cannot turn a blog and video.
• 39:23
  You can't turn short form into long form.
• 39:25
  But you can always turn long form with video into so many
• 39:29
  different pieces of content. I mean, I even have clients that
• 39:32
  record podcast episodes and they use it in places of their sales
• 39:37
  offers. You know, if someone needs them
• 39:40
  and they're like, hey, tell me more about your business.
• 39:42
  Of course they'll do that. But they can also redirect them
• 39:45
  to the podcast episode where they say your things server to
• 39:50
  seven figures. Yeah.
• 39:51
  OK. You have an episode about that,
• 39:53
  right? So you could always send people
• 39:55
  that direction. It's really just the gift that
• 39:58
  keeps on getting. Every podcast.
• 40:00
  What people don't understand is that every single topic, if it's
• 40:02
  actually valuable, is a mini lead magnet.
• 40:05
  Exactly. Like you're like, hey, do you
• 40:07
  teach content? You're like, Yep, here's my
• 40:09
  content episode. This teach is actually one of
• 40:11
  the frameworks that I teach will kind of give you the high level
• 40:13
  of what my perspective is to your point, you know, what's
• 40:16
  your story like? Tell me a little bit about kind
• 40:17
  of like, you know, where can I learn more about you?
• 40:19
  Hey, here's an entire hour where you can hear me go at length in
• 40:22
  great detail about my entire story and every chapter within
• 40:25
  it, right? Like there's so many, so many
• 40:27
  benefits in the way that they're structured that way.
• 40:30
  And like for me, what I found with the with the repurposing of
• 40:33
  the clips, we just did a like a data meeting for like kind of
• 40:37
  going through all the different podcast data.
• 40:39
  And what's really interesting too is like when you take a
• 40:42
  podcast, looking at how the data looks when you're listening to
• 40:45
  it is different than when someone's watching it on
• 40:48
  YouTube, which is different than when they watch it on shorts,
• 40:51
  which is different than TikTok, which is different than
• 40:53
  Instagram. So what's been really cool is to
• 40:56
  see how one clip, the exact same clip, there's nothing that's
• 40:59
  been changed about it. It's identical, same song, same,
• 41:03
  you know, thing me saying in it same way it's edited, it can do
• 41:06
  entirely different on YouTube shorts than it does on TikTok,
• 41:09
  than it does on Instagram, than it does on Spotify.
• 41:11
  And So what we realized even most recently, what we opted to
• 41:14
  do was we originally had everybody listening on the audio
• 41:18
  platforms and then had people watching on YouTube because
• 41:20
  like, okay, great. It's a great way to build a
• 41:22
  YouTube audience. Well then once seeing our
• 41:24
  Spotify data of how many people were listening on Spotify, we
• 41:28
  were like, wait a second, so many people are consuming of all
• 41:31
  the podcast data, majority I think was 89% of people are
• 41:35
  consuming on Spotify, which tells me, hey, let's lean into
• 41:40
  Spotify and how to make sure that the user experience there
• 41:42
  for them is top notch. And so now will be basically
• 41:45
  having video on all of our Spotify episodes directly in
• 41:48
  Spotify. So you don't have to go anywhere
• 41:50
  else to find, you know, basically the experience of what
• 41:53
  we want to make sure everybody gets access to when they listen.
• 41:56
  And so I think it's really also looking at like the way that we
• 41:59
  dive into marketing for the business.
• 42:01
  The same thing can be true for podcasts.
• 42:03
  Like podcasts have so much data. Like even, you know, I was
• 42:07
  diving into a peers podcast data for Spotify as well, because
• 42:11
  they have a really cool podcast section now of data and we were
• 42:14
  seeing how many people got exposed to their show versus how
• 42:17
  many people clicked on the show versus how many people listen to
• 42:20
  the show. And so something that I am
• 42:22
  curious about is titles because obviously to your point earlier
• 42:27
  about SEO, right, the goal that everybody has is to grow their
• 42:31
  show. And so I'm curious, you know,
• 42:33
  with considering SEO and the titles of episodes or maybe even
• 42:36
  the title of your show, your podcast art, talk to me about
• 42:40
  how to grow a show. Like if you're like, I right now
• 42:43
  I'm marketing to my existing audience, but I want to get it
• 42:46
  even bigger. How does somebody grow their
• 42:49
  podcast once they've started it? OK, I love this.
• 42:53
  And really I think going back to the content piece like being
• 42:57
  able to answer people's questions before they even ask
• 43:00
  it is going to be one of the easiest ways to grow.
• 43:04
  And even like we were just talking about the, if people
• 43:07
  keep asking you how you started your business, if you have a
• 43:10
  podcast episode about that, people don't have to keep asking
• 43:13
  you. They can go and be proactive and
• 43:16
  hear it. And then when they're coming to
• 43:17
  talk to you, they're already ready to maybe work with you or
• 43:21
  connect with you further. So having that in mind when
• 43:24
  you're titling your episodes or even your podcast is very
• 43:27
  important. Because a mistake I see a lot of
• 43:31
  podcasters do is instead of having some description in the
• 43:35
  title of the episodes, they'll just have like, episode number
• 43:38
  with guest name. Oh my God, no one's gonna be
• 43:40
  searching the guest name. I see this all the time.
• 43:43
  Right. It's just episode number with
• 43:45
  Haley Hayhurst, whatever that is like.
• 43:48
  Whoever. We wouldn't do that to you,
• 43:49
  Haley. We wouldn't.
• 43:50
  Do you? Thank you.
• 43:52
  But it's a common mistake because that's how people are
• 43:55
  going to find your episodes. So recently I started getting
• 43:59
  into running, as I think almost everyone my age is doing.
• 44:03
  Yeah, I saw you and you're crushing it.
• 44:07
  Thank you. Crushing it.
• 44:08
  Thank you. So when I was trying to learn
• 44:11
  more about this, the first thing I did was obviously go into
• 44:14
  podcast. I went to Spotify and I looked
• 44:17
  up the question I had. So it was like how to be a
• 44:20
  faster runner or whatever. I was looking up, right?
• 44:23
  It came up with all of these episodes that were answering my
• 44:26
  exact question. If your episode isn't titled in
• 44:30
  a way that is SEO forward and is answering those questions like
• 44:34
  giving a preview, you're really doing yourself a disservice
• 44:38
  because not as many people will find what they're looking for.
• 44:41
  Even if you have the perfect answer, if your title doesn't
• 44:45
  explain that you're really not going to be able to grab them as
• 44:49
  they're searching. They're going to go to the other
• 44:51
  podcast that has a better SEO title name.
• 44:54
  So when I was looking for, I don't know, maybe it was like
• 44:58
  running nutrition tips or whatever it is, I saw all of
• 45:01
  these and then the next thing I did was look at the show notes
• 45:06
  of the episode. So is this really going to
• 45:08
  answer the question that I have? Of course, don't give it all
• 45:11
  away in the show notes, but for business owners and for brand
• 45:15
  building businesses, brand building podcasts, I think it's
• 45:19
  really important to have a solid description of what people can
• 45:23
  expect before they listen to your episode.
• 45:26
  There are tons of podcasts about business out there nowadays.
• 45:30
  I don't say that to discourage anyone from starting.
• 45:33
  I am just saying that to be one step ahead of anyone else who
• 45:37
  might be having the same podcast as you.
• 45:40
  If you have better titles and better show notes, that's going
• 45:43
  to stand out to your listeners more than a great logo and great
• 45:48
  content, right? It's like the first impression
• 45:51
  that they have of your show is your show notes, your titles.
• 45:56
  And so then the next question you asked about the podcast
• 45:59
  title, like the name of the podcast, I always say don't name
• 46:03
  it your exact business name. So I wouldn't name my podcast
• 46:07
  Espresso podcast Production. It doesn't make sense, right?
• 46:10
  Well, maybe it does because people would be searching it.
• 46:13
  That's really not what I wanted to portray through my podcast.
• 46:16
  So I have two shows, employee to Boss, where I talk about the
• 46:20
  entrepreneurial journey. And then I also have Podcast
• 46:23
  Cafe or Talk Podcasters. It took me a long time to come
• 46:27
  up with these names. I had a million different ones.
• 46:29
  I think, Hey, I even ran like a million by you for Podcast Cafe
• 46:33
  before I came up with this title.
• 46:35
  Yeah. But really, I think having
• 46:37
  something that does make sense once a listener knows, yeah, who
• 46:42
  you are, that's what you should really go for.
• 46:44
  And then the way you title your episodes and write your show
• 46:47
  notes. Or just a step further.
• 46:51
  Yeah, I mean, I I think that like the podcast opportunity in
• 46:56
  general, when we think about like to your point where you
• 46:58
  said, you know, there's a lot of business podcasts, is there any
• 47:01
  point in doing it? I think it's the same kind of
• 47:02
  idea when we think about business, right?
• 47:04
  People say, well, there's a lot of people in my niche, it's too
• 47:06
  saturated. It's too saturated.
• 47:09
  And my answer to that is then be better.
• 47:12
  Like if I'm going to be. That's the simplest explanation
• 47:15
  I can have. If you want to stand out, people
• 47:19
  say, how do I stand out with my podcast?
• 47:21
  How do I stand out? The way you stand out is by
• 47:24
  things like Haley just noted of, you know, the SEO of the title
• 47:26
  isn't having really intentional descriptions that give people
• 47:29
  the essence of what they're going to learn.
• 47:31
  You know, say on YouTube, having chapters where people can see
• 47:34
  the different segments of what you're discussing in this show.
• 47:37
  I think having intentional clips being put out right, like it
• 47:40
  really is about, in my opinion, like leveraging as much as you
• 47:45
  can to show the value in what you're talking about.
• 47:48
  And I think to your point around content, being conscious around
• 47:52
  what you're talking about, how you're talking about it, and is
• 47:54
  it entertaining? I think that obviously we always
• 47:58
  want to be educated. We always want to be, you know,
• 48:00
  we want to have value. Some take away.
• 48:01
  Maybe it's humor is the take away.
• 48:03
  Maybe it's like kind of hits you in the heartstrings, it's
• 48:05
  inspirational or motivational is the take away.
• 48:07
  Maybe it's literal tips and tricks and it's actual step by
• 48:10
  step education, but I think the way to stand out in any industry
• 48:14
  is a matter of making sure that when someone consumes you, they
• 48:17
  are getting something from it paired with community.
• 48:20
  Because I think that like there is this brand connection to your
• 48:23
  point of like, you know, building brand of the podcast,
• 48:26
  The more that you feel connected to the host, the more that you
• 48:29
  feel connected to the show, the more consistent and loyal you
• 48:31
  are as a consumer. And so, you know, interestingly,
• 48:34
  even for me, I will say on the brand side, podcast cover art is
• 48:38
  very interesting to me. Because the thing that I've
• 48:41
  realized is that I think a lot of people look at their podcast
• 48:44
  cover art in like Canva, but they don't look at it in, in the
• 48:48
  perspective of what it looks like on Spotify as in like this
• 48:52
  tiny, tiny, tiny little icon and you've got all this text going
• 48:55
  on on top of it. And so like, I think one of the
• 48:58
  biggest things that I, I'm basically hearing you say and I
• 49:01
  so agree with is like it's all about the user.
• 49:04
  It's about the user and what they're searching.
• 49:05
  It's about the user in their experience of what they're
• 49:07
  seeing on an audio platform. How big is your cover art?
• 49:10
  Can I even understand what the heck it is?
• 49:12
  Or does it give me a feeling of what I'm going to get from your
• 49:14
  show? Like all of what the audience is
• 49:17
  consuming, looking for and experiencing is really to you
• 49:20
  the biggest success factor that you will have with being able to
• 49:25
  grow your show and basically get it discovered.
• 49:27
  Absolutely. It's all about goal of star,
• 49:29
  it's all about the user. And to your point, there are a
• 49:33
  lot of podcast cover arts that are like, they're like so tiny,
• 49:36
  right? It's on our little phone and
• 49:37
  then you look and you're like, what is that?
• 49:39
  And So what? Does it say?
• 49:41
  Right. So simple is better.
• 49:44
  Simple is better. Now the thing I will say sent to
• 49:47
  your point of like her Mosey took four years, call her daddy
• 49:51
  years. The thing that can happen in
• 49:54
  entrepreneurship because we're all like dopamine junkies and
• 49:58
  we're all looking for that quick hit that quick.
• 50:00
  You know, I post a podcast and I or I TikTok and I go viral and
• 50:04
  I, you know, put this on Instagram and I, you know, have
• 50:06
  massive exposure. How does someone get the
• 50:10
  perspective they need to be committed to the podcast long
• 50:13
  term? Because there's a lot of pieces
• 50:16
  for a podcast, right? You're running a podcast
• 50:17
  alongside having your business. Some people are like, Oh my God,
• 50:20
  this is just so much of A commitment.
• 50:22
  I have all these things happening in my business and I
• 50:24
  got to record this podcast. And potentially if you're
• 50:26
  editing it yourself, you have to do it.
• 50:28
  And then you see all the work you're putting into it.
• 50:31
  But then you may not see any return on all of your reps
• 50:34
  you're putting in. So like the equivalent of I
• 50:36
  think about like you're going to the gym and you're going and
• 50:40
  going and going, but like you might not see that big outcome.
• 50:43
  You're looking for that big transformation for say 2 years,
• 50:46
  three years, four years. How do you help people to really
• 50:51
  shift their perspective or mindset to not get burnt out in
• 50:56
  the pursuit of what is the potential of what their podcast
• 50:59
  could do for them? Yeah, This is why I say if your
• 51:03
  only goal for podcasting is to make money, it's a red flag for
• 51:07
  me. And for you, because I know you
• 51:11
  will, burnouts, I know you will. I've seen it time and time
• 51:14
  again. The podcasts that are the most
• 51:16
  successful are the ones that focus on value, the ones that
• 51:21
  focus on what they're putting out there in a way that will
• 51:25
  help people in their lives, whether they work with you or
• 51:28
  not. I have a client.
• 51:30
  Her goal is to help impact the lives of 1,000,000 women.
• 51:34
  That's her goal. Every week after we post an
• 51:37
  episode, that number goes up and that number goes up, and that
• 51:41
  number goes up and closer we get to her impacting the lives of
• 51:44
  1,000,000 women. So having a goal like that that
• 51:49
  is still tangible and you know what you're working towards that
• 51:53
  is going to be what prevents you from burning out.
• 51:57
  Because to your point, it does take a lot of time to research
• 52:00
  your guests. Research the topics, come up
• 52:02
  with topics, plan out your seasons.
• 52:05
  Yeah, it takes a lot of time. So if you have a goal that you
• 52:10
  feel good about that's going to get you so much farther along,
• 52:14
  then I want to make $1,000,000 for my podcast.
• 52:19
  Yeah, I see people who record like 20 and they're like, so
• 52:22
  like subscribers and I'm like, right, so.
• 52:26
  Yeah, yeah. And I know for me, like whenever
• 52:29
  someone reaches out and says something nice about my podcast,
• 52:32
  I'm reminded why I'm doing what I'm doing.
• 52:34
  You know, I'm reminded of, yeah, people are listening.
• 52:38
  And of course, like I do see positive ROI from my podcast,
• 52:43
  like monetarily. The reason I started my first
• 52:45
  podcast, Employee to Boss is because I knew no business
• 52:48
  owners. I was a brand new business
• 52:50
  owner. I moved to a new city where I
• 52:52
  only knew two people. Like I knew no one online or
• 52:55
  offline from it was kind of like a crazy time.
• 52:59
  And so I started this podcast because I was thinking, OK, I'll
• 53:03
  get people to chat with me for an hour.
• 53:05
  We'll get to know each other. I'll meet another business
• 53:08
  owner, I'll be able to collaborate with them.
• 53:11
  And that was my goal for the first couple years of my
• 53:14
  podcasting journey with employee to boss.
• 53:16
  Like I just wanted to meet people.
• 53:18
  So every week I got to meet a new person and every week I got
• 53:22
  to introduce my audience to a new person.
• 53:24
  Yeah, that was my goal. And that is what kept me going
• 53:27
  for almost three years now. That show and every week I'm
• 53:32
  still excited to meet new people and just get that episode out
• 53:35
  there. I love meeting people, I love
• 53:37
  talking. And so really, that is what
• 53:39
  that's what makes me keep going rather than like burning out.
• 53:44
  Yeah, and I mean, I think you had on something really
• 53:46
  important there too, is like when you're the host of a show,
• 53:49
  it's kind of like the equivalent of being like the host of a
• 53:51
  party, right? Like you're you're the person
• 53:56
  bringing people together. Like you're the person bringing,
• 53:59
  you know, like say I am the person bringing you and your
• 54:04
  information toward the person who's listening right now,
• 54:06
  right? Like you're, you're the
• 54:07
  connector, you're the facilitator.
• 54:09
  And so I think there's also a lot of power in that because
• 54:12
  when you have really incredible guests on or when you have and
• 54:16
  you bring on really valuable insights, you're becoming the
• 54:19
  facilitator of something that could cause a transformation in
• 54:22
  the person who's consuming. Like I have literally had people
• 54:25
  message me and be like, I did what you told me to do on the
• 54:28
  podcast and I sold my course. It was crazy.
• 54:31
  And I was like, OK, amazing. And I had someone actually asked
• 54:34
  me that. They said, you know, is it?
• 54:35
  Do you ever worry about giving too much away on the podcast?
• 54:38
  I was like, no, because if I give away so much on the podcast
• 54:41
  that they got a transformation, you didn't need to work with me
• 54:44
  in the 1st place because like, I wasn't directly involved in your
• 54:49
  transformation. I said something, you took
• 54:51
  action on it, and then it happened.
• 54:54
  So if that happens because people say, you know, how much
• 54:57
  do I give away? How much do I teach?
• 54:58
  How much value do I add? And so I said like, just give it
• 55:01
  all away because if you give it away and someone gets
• 55:04
  transformation, amazing, they got a transformation from your
• 55:07
  show. Imagine what would happen if
• 55:09
  they worked with you. And so like also seeing that
• 55:11
  whole connection. I, I, I so agree with the aspect
• 55:14
  of like seeing the return on it. I see the return on it for me
• 55:18
  with the messages I get from people of those transformations
• 55:21
  they get. I see the return on it in the
• 55:23
  sense of people who feel like like I had somebody who messaged
• 55:26
  me and said, you know, the clarity of what you said in X
• 55:27
  episode. I realized I was in a
• 55:29
  relationship that didn't serve me.
• 55:30
  And so I just want to let you know, like it gave me the
• 55:32
  courage to leave and I'm like, I would have never fathomed any of
• 55:37
  that. And like, again, it's still so
• 55:39
  much in its infancy and yet to your point can have such a deep
• 55:42
  impact on people. And so I think it really goes
• 55:45
  back to the fact that it really is about the impact.
• 55:48
  It's about focusing on like what it can do for the people who are
• 55:50
  listening and the domino effect it can have on their lives.
• 55:54
  So like, I feel like if anyone's to take anything from today, it
• 55:56
  is like just freaking start the podcast already.
• 55:58
  And if you're going to have a podcast, consider some of these
• 56:01
  elements and, and making it strategic.
• 56:03
  You had an element on your show that I'm like, I was like, I'm
• 56:07
  stealing this. So full credit.
• 56:08
  This is not mine. This is Haley's, but we were on
• 56:11
  her show and she asked a really good question, which was, you
• 56:14
  know, what are basically like the X, if you will, of
• 56:18
  podcasting like what are just like the elements of podcasting
• 56:23
  that in your opinion not ideal Gots to go do not recommend.
• 56:27
  And so if someone right now has a podcast, what would you say
• 56:32
  are like the top three don'ts? Oh my gosh.
• 56:36
  OK, I love this. Or maybe you've got 7?
• 56:38
  If so, I've got lots of time. Oh my gosh, so I have so many
• 56:42
  and I mean these all in the nicest way, of course, in a way
• 56:46
  that'll help, right? OK, so #1 prioritizing video
• 56:49
  quality over audio quality, that's a big egg to me.
• 56:52
  Most of your audience, whether you believe it or not, are going
• 56:55
  to be listening to your podcast via audio in the car, on runs,
• 57:00
  whatever it is. So if I see a beautifully set up
• 57:04
  video and then the the audio is coming from like the camera or
• 57:08
  the the laptop, whatever it is like that, it's not going to
• 57:13
  sound great. And that is OK.
• 57:14
  That'll be it #1 it #2 Let me think, Oh my gosh.
• 57:20
  I think, and we've been talking about this like self-serving
• 57:23
  podcasts that you can tell are all about sales.
• 57:27
  A lot of corporates, they do this, a lot of corporate
• 57:30
  companies. And really, I think that that
• 57:33
  is, of course you want to make sales from your show, but if
• 57:37
  that's your only goal, like we said, you're going to burn out.
• 57:41
  But also it's not going to teach the audience anything.
• 57:44
  So with that, like taking the audience for granted like that
• 57:48
  is a big ink of mine. It really is because people are
• 57:52
  taking their their valuable time.
• 57:54
  Even if they're listening to it in 2X speed, they're probably
• 57:57
  still spending like 30-40 minutes with you, right?
• 58:00
  Yeah, if you're not valuing that, that is the time that
• 58:03
  they're taking to specifically listen to you and your
• 58:07
  expertise, that's just being selfish.
• 58:09
  There's a lot of selfish podcasters out there.
• 58:12
  I hate to say it, but it really you can tell.
• 58:15
  And you're not going to have those results that you want just
• 58:19
  by being selfish. And I think it's kind of like
• 58:22
  human nature to do that a little bit.
• 58:23
  So as you continue podcasting, listen back to your episodes.
• 58:29
  Listen to it before it goes live.
• 58:30
  That's that's a tip I'll share because you would be.
• 58:33
  Shocked how many people have never listened to their own
• 58:36
  episodes. They just record and release.
• 58:38
  They never audit it. And I was shocked by that
• 58:41
  because I'm like, if I, if I'm not even entertained by myself,
• 58:46
  why should anybody else be? If I don't find it valuable, why
• 58:48
  should anybody else be like or even the way in which you're
• 58:51
  communicating it. My number one thing I'm working
• 58:53
  on it, you guys is talking slower because I'm just like, Oh
• 58:56
  my gosh, like how many Red Bulls have you had?
• 58:58
  It's just, I talk too fast. But I, I will also say there's
• 59:01
  also a lot of people who don't, who don't audit their show.
• 59:04
  And it's just like, again, like, oh, like whatever it is, it's
• 59:06
  good enough. And that selling piece, like,
• 59:08
  you know, I, I went on a small tangent at least podcast about
• 59:12
  it because I see so many people that have their podcast
• 59:17
  self-serving. And it's actually interesting
• 59:20
  because the ones that are the most selfish are the ones that
• 59:23
  perform the least. Like if you're looking at the
• 59:26
  insights of like, why aren't people buying?
• 59:28
  Why aren't people listening? Why aren't people going and
• 59:30
  taking the actions I want them to take of clicking here or
• 59:32
  clicking there? What's the first thing you think
• 59:35
  of when you search for a podcast?
• 59:36
  It's like, what do I like to your point with the running
• 59:38
  example, what do I need? And I'm going to go search for
• 59:42
  that. And if you open that episode and
• 59:44
  they're like, here's how I, this is what I do when I run in the
• 59:48
  winter and this is what I eat. And this is what I this.
• 59:50
  And you're like, what does that mean?
• 59:52
  That's what I'm supposed to do? Or I don't know how that applies
• 59:54
  to me. So every single person this goes
• 59:57
  in all of marketing is super selfish.
• 59:59
  So if you're going and looking for yourself and then the
• 1:00:02
  episode only talks about that individual, you're like, OK,
• 1:00:04
  there's not anything here for me.
• 1:00:05
  I'm going to keep moving on. So I, I so, so agree with that.
• 1:00:08
  Anything else that you feel like is kind of.
• 1:00:10
  On your mind, you're in so many podcasts.
• 1:00:12
  I was like, if there's anybody who's going to know, it's going
• 1:00:14
  to be you. Oh my gosh, yes, let me think of
• 1:00:17
  which one I want to say. Oh give them all, I want to hear
• 1:00:20
  them all. Don't feel like you need to
• 1:00:21
  distill them down for me. So another pet peeve I have in
• 1:00:25
  podcasting is when there's too many ads.
• 1:00:29
  Of course, self-explanatory, too many ads or like a killer.
• 1:00:33
  There's a big, big, big Top Ten podcast out there.
• 1:00:36
  If you know who I'm talking, I won't say the name, but you
• 1:00:38
  probably know who I'm talking about.
• 1:00:39
  His episodes are like 15 minutes long and five of those are ads.
• 1:00:43
  OK, great content, but it's kind of like that give and receive
• 1:00:48
  kind of thing where you need to give way more contents.
• 1:00:51
  So if you have an hour long episode and you run three ads,
• 1:00:55
  that's fine, OK, You're giving so much more content than like a
• 1:00:59
  minute and a half of ads. Whereas if you give a 30 minute
• 1:01:02
  episode and you have 10 minutes of ads, that's crazy.
• 1:01:07
  OK. One more I want to talk about is
• 1:01:09
  the length of your episodes, because there is.
• 1:01:11
  This I'm dying to hear. No, this I'm dying to hear
• 1:01:16
  because I I again and I like, I actually just said this before
• 1:01:20
  you say, because it might, I might throw myself right under
• 1:01:22
  the bus. And so you know what it is what
• 1:01:24
  it is. I don't like 10 minute episodes.
• 1:01:27
  I don't like it. I can't stand it.
• 1:01:29
  I don't understand it. Why are we talking for only 10
• 1:01:32
  minutes? Unless, unless you like build it
• 1:01:36
  into the brand where you're like every episode is exactly 10
• 1:01:38
  minutes. You can like listen to them on
• 1:01:39
  the go or like you made it part of the thing.
• 1:01:42
  Then I understand it. Like if you're gonna make it
• 1:01:44
  part of your shtick and it's consistent, fine.
• 1:01:48
  But I'm like, I feel like everyone and I could be making a
• 1:01:51
  general statement. So you may be like, Kate, you're
• 1:01:52
  wrong. That's fine.
• 1:01:53
  But I feel like when people listen to a podcast, they want
• 1:01:58
  depth. Like I feel like that's part of
• 1:01:59
  the essence of 'cause if so, why not just take that 10 minute
• 1:02:04
  recording and put it on TikTok, right?
• 1:02:06
  Exactly. I'm just curious like what's the
• 1:02:09
  sweet spot? Yeah, if it's too short it
• 1:02:12
  drives me crazy. So OK, what my pet peeve is here
• 1:02:16
  is totally along the lines of what you just said.
• 1:02:19
  People choose these huge topics to dissect in their show and
• 1:02:24
  then they ask like 2 questions and the episode's over and
• 1:02:27
  you're like, Oh my God, now I have to go listen to another
• 1:02:29
  show and never listen to yours again because like what that's
• 1:02:34
  like that made no sense, you know?
• 1:02:36
  And so I really think that unless like you're saying you
• 1:02:41
  have like maybe a podcast for busy moms and like that would
• 1:02:44
  make sense to have like a 15 minute show, but don't dive into
• 1:02:48
  like these big, big topics of like the best way to parents.
• 1:02:53
  OK, how are you going to talk about them in 15 minutes?
• 1:02:55
  I don't know. That's my biggest pet peeve.
• 1:02:57
  And so making sure that if you are talking about these huge
• 1:03:02
  topics like podcasting, like, yeah, we're going to need an
• 1:03:04
  hour plus to talk about this. Yeah, of course.
• 1:03:06
  There are so many pieces that go into it.
• 1:03:08
  So I really don't think that any podcast has any business being
• 1:03:12
  under 25 minutes. That's my hot take.
• 1:03:14
  I really don't. I think 25 minutes is going to
• 1:03:17
  be even for solo episodes. That's really the sweet spot.
• 1:03:21
  I think 25 minutes to like an hour, hour and a half.
• 1:03:25
  Now, of course, what I have to say here is there's no such
• 1:03:29
  thing as a podcast that's too long, but there is such thing as
• 1:03:32
  a podcast that's too boring. Hate.
• 1:03:35
  To say. But I know it's it's hard to
• 1:03:39
  say, but I. Think that needs to be one of
• 1:03:43
  your brand statements? Because that's the clearest
• 1:03:47
  thing I've ever heard in my life.
• 1:03:49
  There are podcasts too short. There's no podcasts too long,
• 1:03:53
  but there are podcasts that are too boring.
• 1:03:55
  Yeah, yeah. I mean, OK.
• 1:03:58
  There's podcasts that are three hours, like, Oh my gosh, what is
• 1:04:01
  that one podcaster's name? He's a doctor.
• 1:04:04
  I don't know. He had David Goggins on his
• 1:04:06
  podcast. It was like a three hour plus
• 1:04:08
  episode. I listen to all three hours of
• 1:04:10
  that. Like are you?
• 1:04:11
  Talking about Huberman. Yes, yes, Huberman, yes.
• 1:04:14
  So his podcasts are like 3 hours minimum, right?
• 1:04:17
  And people listen every single week they listen to his podcast.
• 1:04:22
  So it's because it's so well planned out and so valuable.
• 1:04:26
  And so if you're having trouble creating longer podcast, like go
• 1:04:30
  back to the drawing board. Really think what is important
• 1:04:34
  for my audience to take away from this always, like we were
• 1:04:37
  saying, think about the listener first.
• 1:04:40
  And so make them lock in, make them listen, make them really
• 1:04:43
  understand what the podcast, what they're going to be taking
• 1:04:46
  away from it. And that's going to be the
• 1:04:49
  success of your show. That really is so.
• 1:04:52
  Well, maybe on that note too, like to you, what makes a show
• 1:04:55
  boring? I think of course, not having it
• 1:04:59
  planned out that definitely if it's not like if it doesn't have
• 1:05:04
  a through line. So I went to school for
• 1:05:05
  journalism. That's kind of where I got my
• 1:05:07
  start in podcasting. And if it doesn't have a
• 1:05:10
  beginning, middle and end, if you don't have action steps that
• 1:05:13
  you can take away from the episode, that's really going to
• 1:05:16
  leave people feeling maybe not that it's boring, but maybe that
• 1:05:20
  they just feel unfulfilled with it.
• 1:05:21
  Like, OK, I just spent an hour listening to this person.
• 1:05:25
  What am I going to do now? Like go listen to the next
• 1:05:27
  episode? So giving them action steps,
• 1:05:30
  giving them things that they can like write down.
• 1:05:32
  Like I was saying, Kate, I think it was when we were recording my
• 1:05:35
  podcast, I was listening to your episode about your treat in
• 1:05:38
  Montana and everything you were saying.
• 1:05:39
  I was like, that's a good point, let me write that down.
• 1:05:42
  That's a good point. Let me write that down.
• 1:05:44
  So having it in a way like that where people are definitely
• 1:05:48
  learning things and are locked in and engaged.
• 1:05:52
  So even if it is an interview, asking the questions that like
• 1:05:57
  you want to know, asking the questions that you know your
• 1:06:00
  audience wants to know and really just meeting them where
• 1:06:03
  they are. So if it's a high level podcast
• 1:06:05
  like Huberman, he's going to be asking more in depth questions
• 1:06:09
  than like a different podcast that has a show for beginning
• 1:06:13
  entrepreneurs. So making sure you understand
• 1:06:16
  your audience and asking the questions that you know they
• 1:06:19
  want to know, that's really is what makes an interesting
• 1:06:23
  podcast. Yeah, I mean, I I definitely
• 1:06:25
  agree with the the prep. I think it's like prep and it's
• 1:06:28
  also this aspect of like practice.
• 1:06:30
  I think prep, you know, for us, I was saying to Haley, we were
• 1:06:33
  we were talking about, you know, our flow of things.
• 1:06:37
  We really do do research around what are people listening to.
• 1:06:41
  So we were talking about the fact that a lot of people who
• 1:06:42
  listen to ambitious also listen to the diary of a CEO and also
• 1:06:46
  listen to call her daddy. Those are some of the core
• 1:06:49
  places that they consume. So not that we have similar
• 1:06:52
  subject matter to call her Daddy by any means, but what it tells
• 1:06:55
  you is just like, again, the kind of styles that people
• 1:06:57
  really enjoy, our solo episodes are always something that people
• 1:07:01
  really enjoy. So we really are like, OK, well,
• 1:07:03
  what would you resonate with? We asked you guys to message us
• 1:07:06
  and to say, you know, hey, like here's the topics we're loving
• 1:07:08
  and here's the things that we want more of.
• 1:07:10
  And like we really make it super audience centric.
• 1:07:12
  But even with those pieces, when we go into a podcast, like I
• 1:07:16
  have, you know, A2 page thing in front of me here of notes that
• 1:07:19
  are not necessarily that we covered them all by any means,
• 1:07:21
  but that are basically an outline of like, well, what do I
• 1:07:24
  know to your point of the end consumer and you know, the
• 1:07:27
  person listening to this and what's going to help them with
• 1:07:28
  their podcast? What did they want to know?
• 1:07:30
  What are the questions I get about podcasts?
• 1:07:33
  And so I want to make sure I integrate those in the prep.
• 1:07:36
  But with guests, the thing that I see that makes it really
• 1:07:39
  boring is question, answer, question, answer, question,
• 1:07:44
  answer back and forth. And there's no like there's no
• 1:07:48
  discussion type of element to it.
• 1:07:50
  But like silly, tell me your story.
• 1:07:51
  They tell this like huge, like really profound, intricate
• 1:07:54
  emotional story. They're like, OK, amazing.
• 1:07:57
  And so. And I'm like, they just told you
• 1:08:00
  like, like 7 years of like these massive wins and these pitfalls
• 1:08:06
  and like unpack, like be like, wow, I love it.
• 1:08:11
  Like it's just, yeah, there's no, there's no like depth to the
• 1:08:15
  conversation. And it feels so transactional.
• 1:08:19
  And to your point, when someone covers information but doesn't
• 1:08:21
  fully cover it, when someone interviews someone but doesn't
• 1:08:24
  really interview them to close the loop, I'm ending the podcast
• 1:08:29
  being like, now I have to go search about this person, that
• 1:08:31
  story that you didn't unpack because I have so many
• 1:08:35
  questions. And I guess for the guest, it's
• 1:08:37
  great because it means that I'm going and investigating them.
• 1:08:40
  But I think as as a host, even the aspect of practice is like,
• 1:08:44
  and I think to even your your aspect earlier, right, of the
• 1:08:46
  facts of the long term game. If you're going to do it, do it
• 1:08:50
  to do it right. Like do it to really make sure
• 1:08:53
  that the person is getting value and that you're developing a
• 1:08:56
  skill. Because I do think podcasting
• 1:08:59
  like marketing in short form, like selling, like anything, it
• 1:09:04
  is a skill. It's something that if you're
• 1:09:06
  not good at it, you can get good at it.
• 1:09:08
  But it really does come with those reps.
• 1:09:10
  And I think to your point of like not making it boring, you
• 1:09:14
  know, the whole thing of like, how do I get better engagement,
• 1:09:16
  better sales, better growth, better exposure?
• 1:09:18
  I'm like, be better. And so like, even when you're
• 1:09:21
  saying like don't be boring indirectly in a much softer
• 1:09:25
  Haley way is saying be better, right?
• 1:09:28
  Like be better in in the way in which you're doing it if you
• 1:09:31
  want to see better results happen.
• 1:09:33
  Absolutely, absolutely though, I mean, that's everything with
• 1:09:37
  with podcasting and I was even listening to Mel Robbins podcast
• 1:09:41
  and she had that same point where you're not born a great
• 1:09:44
  speaker, but it's one of the best things that you can do in
• 1:09:47
  your life. One of the things that will make
• 1:09:50
  you up level your life so much is being able to speak clearly
• 1:09:55
  and in front of people without, you know, shattering and being
• 1:09:59
  nervous. So really, yes, everyone should
• 1:10:02
  start a podcast. If you have the desire for it,
• 1:10:04
  you should absolutely go for it. It takes up so much brain space
• 1:10:08
  to be like, oh, I want to start a podcast, I want to start, just
• 1:10:10
  start it. Just start it and see where it
• 1:10:12
  takes you. If I can give you guys any
• 1:10:14
  advice, it would be exactly what she just said, which is start it
• 1:10:17
  if you have the idea. I had all these obstacles that I
• 1:10:21
  placed in my way and I will be the first to admit it.
• 1:10:23
  It was the IT was the set that I was going to have.
• 1:10:27
  It was the certain chair I wanted to have.
• 1:10:29
  How dumb it was the certain chair that I wanted to have.
• 1:10:32
  It was the lights, it was the camera, all of these pieces.
• 1:10:37
  And I really learned when I was travelling with the show and I
• 1:10:39
  had like a little plug in Rode mic that I had.
• 1:10:42
  It was like, I don't know, like 120 bucks.
• 1:10:44
  And I had a little webcam that I had that was really, really good
• 1:10:47
  quality. And I just took that with me and
• 1:10:50
  it was more than fine. Like I recorded, if you guys
• 1:10:53
  have seen the guest shows that I had recorded in person with
• 1:10:57
  George as well as Gabby, both episodes were pretty close
• 1:11:00
  back-to-back. Those were filmed on a webcam
• 1:11:02
  like they were not in a professional camera.
• 1:11:04
  And so like there's a lot you can do with technology these
• 1:11:06
  days to have a really, really good podcast that's really
• 1:11:08
  accessible. And so I think just even
• 1:11:11
  obviously in listening to you Haley today and like talking
• 1:11:13
  about all the opportunity and all the different things that
• 1:11:15
  can happen with this content, brand growth, reach, depth,
• 1:11:19
  nurturing sales, like there's never been an easier time.
• 1:11:23
  And even with AI now and the editing that can happen, if
• 1:11:26
  you're like, listen, I got no budget for a podcast and I'm
• 1:11:29
  really bootstrapping it. You know, there's auto clipping
• 1:11:32
  in things like Riverside. There's, you know, video dot AI
• 1:11:35
  that can, you know, chop up clips for you.
• 1:11:37
  If you really don't have a budget for a podcast, like
• 1:11:39
  there's so many resources, there's really no reason not to
• 1:11:41
  other than you listening to this basically just giving yourself
• 1:11:46
  obstacles or reasons why it can't happen.
• 1:11:48
  So, Haley, I'm going to end with a question of to be a successful
• 1:11:53
  podcast, you must blank. OK to be a successful podcast.
• 1:11:58
  To be to be or have a successful podcast, you must blank.
• 1:12:05
  You must be authentic. OK, how would you define or
• 1:12:11
  maybe explain what you perceive in podcasting to be authentic?
• 1:12:16
  Yeah, showing up as who you really are.
• 1:12:20
  Like, you know, I'm not going to be 1 to dress like in a blazer
• 1:12:23
  and really like be, you know, professionally ready every
• 1:12:28
  single day, right? That is not what people should
• 1:12:31
  expect from you when they get on sales calls, whatever it may be,
• 1:12:34
  Just show up as who you are and also show up in a way that you
• 1:12:41
  would be proud of presenting your business by.
• 1:12:44
  So whether it is, I don't know the stories you want to tell.
• 1:12:48
  I don't really share a ton about my personal life through my
• 1:12:51
  business. So I wouldn't share it through
• 1:12:53
  the podcast, right? But I do share elements of my
• 1:12:56
  life that are relevant to my business and my in my podcast.
• 1:13:02
  So really show up in a way that feels good to you.
• 1:13:05
  Be confident and just present yourself well in a way that you
• 1:13:09
  are truly proud of and just know it gets better the longer you
• 1:13:13
  got you do it. Amazing.
• 1:13:16
  Well, today was so good. I think a little master class.
• 1:13:19
  I'm leveraging and growing and expanding a podcast.
• 1:13:22
  Haley, if people want to reach out to you, connect with you,
• 1:13:25
  you know, learn more about podcasting, consume some of your
• 1:13:28
  content, or again, like even go to your podcast, which I know is
• 1:13:31
  like literally a deep dive into the 101 of all things
• 1:13:33
  podcasting. Where can they find you?
• 1:13:35
  Where can they kind of sink their teeth in to learn more?
• 1:13:37
  Yeah, so the place I hang out the most is Instagram.
• 1:13:40
  You can find me at Espresso Podcast Production.
• 1:13:43
  I also have a website where you can learn more.
• 1:13:46
  I have a free podcast launch checklist where if you're
• 1:13:49
  thinking of starting a podcast that you're like, what is even
• 1:13:53
  Step 1? You can find that at Espresso
• 1:13:55
  Podcast production.com/checklist.
• 1:13:58
  And last place, if you want to listen to the Podcast Cafe, it
• 1:14:02
  is streaming everywhere you listen and watch your podcast.
• 1:14:05
  Amazing. I will say you guys, I've seen
• 1:14:07
  the checklist since freaking epic.
• 1:14:09
  So if I didn't have the amazing team that I have behind the
• 1:14:12
  scenes helping with podcasts and I had to do it on my own, like
• 1:14:15
  it would be an immense, immense help.
• 1:14:17
  So really, really highly recommend.
• 1:14:18
  Haley, thank you so much for coming on.
• 1:14:20
  This was so good. And I feel like there's just so
• 1:14:23
  many more questions that I had on my list.
• 1:14:24
  So like, you know, we may need to do like a Part 2 at some
• 1:14:27
  point of like scaling podcast Part 2.
• 1:14:29
  But today was absolutely epic. So thank you so, so much for
• 1:14:32
  coming on. Thank you so much for having me,
• 1:14:34
  Kate. You're an incredible coach and I
• 1:14:36
  love working with you and also an incredible podcast host.
• 1:14:39
  So thank you so much for having me on today.
• 1:14:42
  Thank you. Well, all right, guys, we will
• 1:14:45
  see you next week. Obviously, today was an absolute
• 1:14:47
  blast. I feel like I got even more
• 1:14:49
  Nuggets. So I want to go back through
• 1:14:50
  today's episode and pull apart these pieces.
• 1:14:52
  See you next week. And as always, you guys stay
• 1:14:54
  ambitious.