Latest / Only Fee-Only / #69 - Active Listening and Finding Success in Financial Planning - Scott Frank

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#69 - Active Listening and Finding Success in Financial Planning - Scott Frank · Only Fee-Only

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: How's it going everyone?
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the only, the only podcast and, as always, thank you so much for being here.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: In this episode, we got the chance to talk to Scott Frank, who many of you are likely familiar with.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: He is the founder at Stone Steps Financial, based out of Encinitas, california, and he had some really great and amazing things to say.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Scott is actually from Noblesville, indiana, which is just up the road from me, so it was really cool to talk to a fellow Hoosier that moved to Colorado, that now lives in California.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: He's also involved with teaching at the Kinder Institute, and one of the things that I really got from this conversation and appreciated about it was his focus on active listening, and you'll hear in the episode I talk about an example of where I got to hear him do this and why I admire the fact that he really focuses on listening to the person in front of him.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: So, without further ado, here is Scott Frank on the Only Fee Only podcast.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: What's up everyone?
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Welcome to another episode of the Only Fee Only podcast.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: I'm Peter Travelo.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: I'm here at my co-host, brock Buckles.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: How's it going today, brock?
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: It's good man.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: I'm excited we're here with a Hoosier surfer, so I'm pumped.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Let's do it.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Yes, a Hoosier surfer, I love it.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: I was going to definitely mention the Indiana roots, but today we got Scott Frank on from Southern California Fresh off his surf this morning.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Scott, welcome to the show man.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: Thanks for having me on Nice to see you both Likewise.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Likewise man.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: I know we were able to hang out quite a bit at XYPN and we've had a blast hanging out and we've got some small connections like the Indiana roots.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: But for those who don't know who Scott Frank is, you want to give a quick 30, 60 second overview of who you are and who you're currently serving.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sure.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: So I did grow up in the Midwest, in Indiana, and I kept going west.
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: So I went to University of Colorado where I met my wife and I skied about 60 days a year.
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: So I took me six years to graduate.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: I should technically be a doctor, but I just have an undergrad and then from there, kept moving west, moved to San Francisco, worked at one of the largest RIAs right out of school Fisher Investments and then kind of stayed in the industry, went and worked for a small firm called Weatherly Asset Management here in San Diego, got my CFA and CFP while I was there.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: I highly don't recommend getting your CFA if you just want to be client facing.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: It's a lot of work.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: And then from there started my own firm in 2015 and who we serve today?
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: Mostly Gen X, gen Y clients who are in tech and biotech, and some small business owners.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: So, six years in college in Colorado, did you go to school by?
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: the way the six years in college for an undergrad kind of sounds familiar, so knocks through the screen.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: So we got 12 between the two of you.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: If I didn't do it in four, my parents would have knocked me over the head or taken me out of the will or something, so there was pressure.
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: I was paying my own way, so like there was no rush right there was no rush until I met my wife and I was like, ooh, I don't get my shit together, like she's probably going to leave me.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: So all of a sudden, I was on the Dean's List and graduating.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: Sometimes that's what you need A little kick in the butt, that's what you need sometimes, yeah.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: So I mean you're in school, like did you think you're going to get into financial planning?
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Like, what was your first kind of relationship with money or money experience?
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Like, was there a Scott Frank lemonade stand?
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: as a kid I mean we did little lemonade stands and stuff like that as kids for sure.
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: But my first thing was that I really remember was I had a paper route and so I lived in a little town called Noblesville it's you guys know from Indianapolis on the northeast side, and it was a master plan community.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: It was called Wellington Northeast and I had an afternoon paper route because there was a morning paper and an afternoon paper back then.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: So I did the afternoon paper route and I started it when I was 12.
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: And I had enough money to, like, buy my own bike.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: And I remember getting my own bike with front suspension and, like you know, I bought it on my own and man, I was so proud of that thing Not really my first money memory.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's cool.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: We all have things like that.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: That stick out, for sure.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: And yeah, the bike, and you'll never forget what it looks like either.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: I know you're picturing it right now on your head, you know exact.
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: You're black with like green, like neon green drips like going across the front of this.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: That's so cool.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Coolest thing at the time yeah, no doubt.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: So what was it like, man, when you kind of moved on right, like you first get, you go to college, you first get out of college Fisher Investments which, interesting enough, my wife's brother just got a job at Fisher Investments yesterday but what was it kind of like there?
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: And then how did you eventually say I think it's time for me to start moving in another direction?
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: And kind of what was the more detailed journey from there?
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, to answer Peter's earlier question, I had no idea what money management was right.
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: So Fisher recruited at CU, where I went to school for undergrad.
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: So I got a degree in corporate finance.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: We didn't even have personal financial planning as an undergrad degree, which now that exists, which is awesome, right, If I could go back and do it over again, knowing that what I wanted to do, you could go do personal financial planning and pass the CFP exam right out of undergrad.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: So it went there, worked there.
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: I was fascinated by how he built what he built.
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: So Fisher this was back in 2006, 2007.
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: We had in our systems, so I was on the account executive side, so I was literally just.
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: It was basically like, hey, we were social media before social media Based on zip code.
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: We would send out mailers to get your parents and my parents to call in for that free pamphlet of the 10 mistakes that you make in retirement.
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: And we just kept bringing back people every 90 days, just touching on them way more than their advisor was.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: So eventually we got in front of them and talked to them about money and how to manage money Really just an investment-only shop.
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: But with the month I left, they brought in 300 million in assets on the private client side and I went to a firm that had 200 million in assets all in so it was a big difference.
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: But the interesting thing was he was so efficient.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: So all of the systems at the time you got to remember software wasn't really all that great for enterprise software.
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: So we had a system that if I was the investment counselor which I never was, but the advisor role at Fisher there'd be a phone call come in.
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: It would be like Brock's calling.
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: I'd pop up on my screen that you're calling.
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: They pop up with the weather, the sports score of your local stuff, your previous notes, your performance, and I just hit go and that was in 2006.
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: Right, awesome, what they were able to do back then was mind-blowing and they were really good at structuring a very flat system that allowed people to really do great work and deep work in what their role was and not do a bunch of other stuff.
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: That always blew me away.
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: From there I went to Weatherly.
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: It was a mom and pop.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: A woman started it who was amazing, and she grew it to.
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: I think now they're getting close to a billion dollars and when I came it was like 200 million.
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: We helped grow it to about a half a billion.
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: But it was kind of the millionaire next door and we were very investment focused and we did financial planning, but it wasn't the financial plan of the depth I wanted to be doing it.
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: We're like with you guys we weren't really reviewing life insurance and PNC with every client.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so it started my own firm 2015.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: And then started that and thought I knew everything and how to help people and really learn quickly that I didn't and had to learn a few other things along the way.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's awesome.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: So I mean Fisher Investments, it is fee only.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: Right, it was when you started.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: So, you did start at least in that.
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, had no idea, but I did.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you just landed in it.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: But I mean, you're so right.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, back in that time it was mail but it was content and that's what Fisher has always been best at, and they've got very good copywriting and stuff like what are some like maybe key lessons that you learned from Fisher and just the way that they're able to market to the masses.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: You know, I mean they're up there with, like Dave Ramsey, as far as you know.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Hey, we only make money when you make money and some of these slogans.
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, if you look at what Fisher does well he writes, he learned, I should say.
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: What he does well is if you actually you know he's an interesting man.
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: He's been controversial, of course, in our industry in the past with some things he said in certain events, so I don't necessarily agree with him there.
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: But if you just look at who he is as a business person, what he's done is he writes consistently.
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: He wrote consistently for Forbes for years and was always in the back of the magazine, so he was the last article at the end of that magazine for I think, over 20 years.
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: Now he writes for the New Yorker pardon me, the New York Post.
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: He writes for the Guardian.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: Like, if you just follow him on Twitter, you'll see he's posting somewhere all over the world all the time giving his thoughts about investing and that's really the frame that he gives for why you should come to his firm right.
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: So he does that.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: And then he backs up everything he does with other collateral and other marketing and social media.
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: So, like if you're an advisor and you have something that you focus on, if you can consistently hit on that, like if it's whether it's a podcast or whether it's, you know, writing a newsletter and keep telling those themes and growing that base like you're gonna.
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: You're gonna grow.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: The interesting, the most interesting thing was my role.
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: A count executive was started because they were basically like, hey, what do we do with all of those people that signed up and met with us once but decided not to work with us at first?
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: Mmm-hmm and so they just kept calling back all of those people right like.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: That in itself is a nugget that I think a lot of firm Owners and like people who are trying to grow their firm forget.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: Just cuz someone said no to you the first time doesn't mean you shouldn't reach out to them, be like hey, hope everything's going well for you.
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: Just want to let you know we're always we're accepting clients and if you ever need help or have a question, you're welcome to reach out.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah right.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no doubt, man.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: I mean it's in a lot of times like it's like some of the training I got for a big, big insurance brokerage company was like always ask if you have permission to stay in touch.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: It's like not everything you learn from those big organizations is valuable, but staying in touch and you know, saying hey and even asking their permission, like I know.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: Last time we talked you said you didn't mind if I, if I, checked in every once in a while and then eventually maybe it's the right time for them.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: So that's good, yeah, exactly.
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: We didn't even do that.
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: We basically said you asked for a mailer.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: That means You're literally saying Consent it's like being more aggressive search for a girlfriend or boyfriend.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: You don't ask for permission to text, you just like already have the ability to, so you just do it.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: So you were there for a quick two years and then you went to another RIA and kind of I mean it was an associate role, like I Mean you were a really started.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: Started in kind of the, in a sense in the in the back office right.
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: Like doing the paperwork, learning everything and then kept growing into like doing more and more.
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: And when I left, I was in charge of client relationships and Was the person who went out.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: We were a part of the wealth advisor services program with Fidelity, so we'd go to the branches and meet with the advice.
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: You know they're financial consultants or whatever the name of the proper name of those associates are at Fidelity so that whenever they wanted to refer business they could.
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: So that's what I was doing Until I left, right, and when I left it was really looking at I think it's an issue that a lot of people in our business Look at was basically like, hey, you know, my, my boss has built a great business, but it's not.
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: It's gonna be really hard to transition that business and that what's the path to partnership?
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: And it was very opaque and not understood and I just started to look at the cost of starting my own firm and building my own Affirm and I said, well, let's just go do that instead.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: Let's yeah.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: So, if you don't mind, I want to like drill in on that point a little bit, because I feel like a lot of firms they like will dangle a carrot for younger advisors to like try to bring them in in a partner role, and you know, you see some of these valuations on our eyes or what you know it's like okay, well, how like, who are these clients?
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: Are they actually gonna stay where their systems in place?
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: Right, you know like and that's very interesting like what are your thoughts?
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: And like what do you recommend to other Advisors who you know they may have been promised a lot of stuff and they come to find out you know it's not all what it was cracked up to be.
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and to be clear, like we never had like the deliberate, like you're gonna be a partner discussion, and then it wasn't Into fruition.
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: It was just always like, yeah, we're gonna figure it out down the road, kind of thing, if it was ever discussed at all.
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: And I think that she's a.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: She has partners in profit.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: If I remember correctly, I've according to the ADV, but not in equity, and I wanted the equity, right.
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: I'm like, hey man, if we're gonna grow a business, I want to grow a business.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: So for me, once I knew that really wasn't the path for me, I just decided to do it on my own.
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: But to your point, have a clear path, have an understanding of how you're gonna have a Valuation to know whether or not you're to like arrive at you buying in what's the term?
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: That, the amount of time that you're gonna be buying in, like, if you just look at buying a normal book of business, you're gonna need more than a five or six year time period to buy that book of business because you can't afford it, right and what traditionally happens, the what I've seen.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: The best way of buying a book of business is that or a firm.
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: I prefer firm over book of business is essentially you just go and you say, okay, we're gonna sell, scott, you're gonna get 10% of the firm.
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: So we go write that contract, we get the price, we line up a bank, we sign, bank gives me a loan.
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: I'm now a 10% owner.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: My profits from the 10% fund the payment back of the loan.
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: We roll that one off takes about five years and then we do it again, right, and we just keep doing it until I finally can buy everything out.
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: Well, that that takes time.
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: That takes.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: That's like a 20 year cycle.
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah right, you can't do that overnight, yeah, so I would just leave it that way.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the empty promises.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if there's no some some sort of plan like what you're talking about.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Like if someone's serious about it, they believe in you, they want you to actually become, you know, a partial owner of the firm and then eventually take it over.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: There has to be action steps for it to make sense.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: So, for all the people that are on the fence out there, you know, do I go start my own thing or am I actually gonna get this someday?
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: I think that's a good nugget, like Peter said, that to kind of take away.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: One of the things I want to go back on, man, because I think you're about to get into something really good is, you said, when I started my firm in 2015.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: I started it and I thought I kind of had it all figured out, but I was quick to realize that I did not have it all figured out.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: So talk to us about go into that.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: Totally so.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: One point I want to make before we move on is that, to be fair to like my old firm owner and to most firm owners, I personally at the time thought I deserved way more than I actually did looking back at it and I just want to give that to associates out there as well when you haven't been a firm owner, it looks so easy and you go like I could do that.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: Well, go do it, Because the.
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: Moment you go do it, you're going to realize that like, wow, there's a lot of things that go into this and the key is this it should not just be handed to you.
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: If you think that you should go work somewhere and someone should just be like Brock, you automatically get 10%.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: Great job, kid.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: No, they built something.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: You should buy it from them, right, and then be invested in helping to grow.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: So I would go there and I think that now that I'm a business owner, I have so much more understanding for where my previous boss was before I left.
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: Before I left, I was kind of like I can do this, this isn't going to be hard.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: Well, it took me twice as long to build my firm to the point where my wife could quit working, which was our ultimate goal, right?
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: So, yeah, to come back into the point you were making, I had a CFA and a CFP.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: So I kind of thought I was like the hero, right, and I had my cape on and I was like Peter, come sit down, tell me what your problems are.
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: I'm going to solve all your problems for you, right?
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: And I would find out what your problems were.
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: I would use the planning tools, like I'm supposed to do all the work, hand you the next steps.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: And there was one problem.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: You want to guess what it is.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Client acquisition.
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: No, you guys didn't follow through.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: So I'd give you the stuff to do and you wouldn't execute on it right, even though I'm here to help you execute on it, you wouldn't follow through.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: And so I used to think that clients were just.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: They were just bad clients.
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: But what I found was there was an anecdotal study I think it was Russ Allen Prince it was like December of 2019 or something like that in Financial Planning Magazine and he asked over 100 firms that do comprehensive planning after you give a comprehensive plan and you check back with that client I think he gave him like six months what percentage of tasks have been completed right?
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: And so let's just say there's 10 things to do.
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: Well, only like 20% had done two or more right, and then the bulk of people had done one or less, and then like 18% had done, done, yeah, yeah, right, and that's the standard.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: So at first I thought like I just had bad clients.
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: What I realized was I was being a bad advisor.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: So I spent a lot of time with active listening and I actually teach through the Kinder Institute of Life Planning, basically teaching advisors how to listen with empathy and have a structure, to have deeper conversations to help to really facilitate for clients figuring out what matters most to them in their lives so you can then tie what matters most in their lives to the things they need to do financially so they actually follow through on it.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: I'll never forget.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: I noticed that about you.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Well, obviously, getting the chance to hang out and go to the Braves game and stuff was cool.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: But the first time that I was like okay, there's something special about this guy, he's a really great communicator is when you, Peter and I, were on the way back from the Braves game in the Uber and she was telling us all these stories about how she's getting ready to go on a little bit of a road trip and just the way that you ask the questions and practice the active listening and just we're engaged in the conversation.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: I really appreciate that, man.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: I want you to hear me say that because I really thought that it was cool and I was like that's something everybody can take a little nugget from and try to incorporate a little bit.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Obviously, something that takes time, but if everybody can incorporate that a little bit, you're better off in client situations and then just in relationship situations across life.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: Well, thank you, and I totally agree.
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: I think that learning to actively listen to what it is doing is rather like most of us are having a conversation and the moment you hear something that's interesting to you, you start thinking about what you're going to say back.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: Right, so you stop listening.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: So someone might be giving you more, or their body language might be telling you something, but now you're actually not engaged anymore.
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: You're just like in your own head.
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: So the whole point is to learn how to be in the present moment and to be with people.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: Really, that's what it is and, to your point, once you learn how to do this, it makes you a better husband, which you have to be now that you are one, and it makes you a better friend, brother.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: You know, whatever you are in life, it will help you do that better, because we're social creatures and you're around people all the time.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, was there a aha moment or like, was there a hard part in your business?
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: When you're six to twelve months in and you were just Racing and racing and racing, you're like, hey, I got a slowdown and listen, or did someone call you out on it, like you know what was the moment called me out on it.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: What happened was I.
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: It was like a progression.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: So did you ever seen the Ted talk?
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: Start with why?
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: By Simon Sinek.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Hmm, he wrote a book.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Actually has seen that one.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right.
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: So start with why he basically explains, for he goes through the model of, like corporations and Martin Luther King doing the I have a dream speech and the Wright brothers Building it, you know being the first to go to to have flight.
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: He basically looks at how they all focused on why, then went how, and then went what, right?
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: And the first thing that hit me was, oh, as a business owner, as a business owner, I'm going what, how, and I maybe talk about why with the clients.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: Like the first meeting is like what are your goals?
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: And they tell me then like okay, we're done with that.
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: Now I just go focus on the other stuff.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: So when he started to put together the concept that people are emotional creatures and we operate based on emotion rather than intellect, I was like ooh, that's fascinating that, like I started to get it, I ran across thinking fast, thinking slow, by Daniel Conner and that's where, like he talked about system one and system two, which is basically the reptilian brain and the prefrontal cortex, and when he lays it out that, from a scientific basis, you're in your reptilian brain 95% of your day, which means you're working on emotion versus being an intellect, which is like an electrical impulse.
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: I was like okay, now there's like science behind this right.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: And then a friend of mine introduced me to the three questions of George Kinders and once I saw them I was just like mind blown and I was like I have to go learn how to do this.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, love it.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: It's fascinating.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean learning how to talk and be able to articulate ideas with the advisor, like that is one thing that Brock and I got at Northwestern Mutual was like nailing down your language and like practicing it as an advisor, right.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: I mean it's kind of like Getting ready for a game in sports, right.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Whether you're playing football or you know Whatever it might be.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: Like everyone's got a little bit different, like pregame ritual, right.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: Some they just blare music and don't really think about it.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: But then there's also like working through the process, like recognizing hey, why am I helping this person?
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: You know, let's make sure that the ideas are clear so they actually can move on these items.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: And having a process I mean that's it's so important and just your emphasis on it it's really cool.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: But along with you know, people.
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: People think that in our business I think we all spend so much time focused on IQ and expanding our IQ, the technical knowledge, right.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: That's why we get like I have the CFA and the CFP, right, I should know I always think of the CFA is like a mile deep and a foot wide on investments.
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: So I know a lot about investments, right, and the CFP is pretty much a mile wide and a foot deep on a lot of things, but it's way more than the average person knows.
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: So I know a ton right, and you have someone talk to you and you just want to like spit it back out at them, right, it's like rapid fire.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: You're like I'm gonna prove my value to you and what it the hard part is realizing.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: No, no, just be quiet and Understand what's driving this person and once you know it's driving them, then help link that up to the things they should be doing.
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: And, of course, we want the nice thing about you guys being the fee only podcast, right, if it's in the fee only framework.
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: My hope is that these people who are advisors are, in a sense, in more of an altruistic standpoint and they're doing everything for the benefit of the client, not just for the benefit of itself, yeah yeah, no, that's.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: That's fantastic and honestly made the fact that you teach at the Kinder Institute.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: You could talk about the point of active listening for an hour, but if you had to nail just one little tidbit real quick, because I want to make sure that people take this way, because I think it is Such an invaluable thing, I really do.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: I believe wholeheartedly in it.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: What is one way that you would encourage somebody?
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Obviously just be quiet and focus on what they're saying.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: But are there any tips or tricks to try to help people get in the zone of active listening instead of like am I gonna get this Quiet?
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: Am I not gonna get this client like the kinder?
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that there is, and what it really comes down to it.
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: The the best way to practice the skill of listening is to practice Interlistening Yep, which the skill of interlistening sometimes called meditation.
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: Right, but what you're doing with meditation is You're sitting.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: In the Buddhist tradition, you're just sitting and you usually close your eyes, because closing your eyes makes it so that, visually, you're not A tune and you're calming your mind.
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: But then the moment that you're you start meditating, what you do is you just focus on the breath, and People think they're gonna fail immediately because they're gonna start thinking Right, but that's not failure, that's practice, and what it is is that every time a thought comes, you want to think of it.
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: Like my mentor of mine would say, it's like a helium balloon with a string and your job is to simply let go of the string.
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: So your job is you're sitting in your breathing and all of a sudden, I'm thinking about the podcast I'm gonna do today with Brock and Peter, and the moment that arrives, I realize that I'm doing that, I let it go and I come back to the breath.
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and what you're doing there?
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: The reason why I say that's practice is because the practice that's gonna happen in your own life as an advisor is you're gonna be sitting with the client.
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: They're gonna say something.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: You're start thinking.
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: Well, you have to be.
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: You have to know the process of letting go Right so you can just go back to the conversation.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: Instead of going back to the breath, you're going back to them and the conversation.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: So that would be my tidbit.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: That's fantastic.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: That's fantastic.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: As someone who cracks an invitation, I completely agree.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: And it was an extremely hard thing to start doing it first, because you started think I'm having thoughts, I'm doing it wrong.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: You know, I get all these other things like now, like keep going.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: So I like that man.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: I think that's fantastic.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: What was kind of the evolution of your firm, you know, from 2015 to 20?
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Where we are present day, right, obviously we got to learn a little bit about it, but just kind of, you know, year by year.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: When did you start to kind of feel some traction and feel like you were really making a difference?
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: And then, yeah, we have to today, where I know you feel pretty good about where you're at right.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's funny, you see that, because I was actually just.
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: I have my like revenue thing up here Somewhere, like project quarterly revenue and stuff.
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: I think the first year, the first year, total revenue was 26 grand and I thought that was a solid success.
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: Right next year it was 78, then 143, then 198, then 310, then 416, then 660 something, then 800 something.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: It's like it does go on an arc up into the right, but it just takes so much longer than you think.
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: So if you're thinking about starting a firm, get your spouse on board, if you have one, and once they're on board, tell them it's going to be twice as long as you think.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: So tell them what you think it's going to be and then tell them it's going to take twice as long and make sure they're cool with that.
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: I joined XY planning network from go.
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: I wasn't one of the original 20, but I was like shortly thereafter, so I think I'm like number 30 something.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: So we basically were helping build it.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: We like all jumped off the cliff together, right, and now there's so many resources and you can see it in the data that the firm's first year, second year, they're making more money than we used to which is great Benchmarking, yeah, the benchmarking studies because, like we basically were trying to figure it all out along the way.
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: So, like, just go plug into a system that exists and utilize it.
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: Don't try to make some fancy new system.
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: Like, just go use what already works and then, when you're getting started, the thing that I wish I'd done more of was just go focus on growing the business, on just talking to people right.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, writing, talking to people, marketing that's the stuff you need to worry about.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: Until you have like 40, some clients, like I really don't think you need much of a policy and a procedure, and if you're just sitting in your like office trying to figure out how to have a perfect asset allocation, that's not going to help you live, right, yeah, help you live is helping people and growing.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: So, like, go focus on that, because I think there's kind of a I was playing office quite a bit of the time.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: Looking back on yeah, and it had to have been a blessing because I mean, I don't know if you see the, the kits is like advisor tech stack snapshot and I mean these logo.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: There's so many of them that these logos are so small and it's like what planning software, what filing system, like you know, there becomes a point when you just have to do it and I think that, like that's something that a lot of people have gotten away from.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, we'll talk about how you've marketed your firm a little bit and things like that, because you have podcasted and you are decently well known in the industry from that.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: But you know, really driving home like what are those main found foundations that advisors they have to make sure that they're doing to try to set, you know, set themselves up for as much success as possible.
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, just literally like learn from the people who've done it before, which is basically recognize that, like I think, anytime someone wants to knows they want to definitely start their own firm.
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: They don't want to be like an IAR for an RIA right which everyone on this show know what that means.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: If you just want to go start your own firm, I see no reason why you wouldn't just go join XY, because literally there's now 10 years of people figuring out how to do it and they've iterated every year to make it better.
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: You literally just plug into here's how you do it, right?
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: I never nitched on a demographic.
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: If you niche on a demographic and a psychographic, I think you'll grow bigger, faster, longer.
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: That'll be good for you.
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: There's lots of stuff that you could do, but I don't know where you want to go with it.
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: I can go lots of directions.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: So what direction have you gone?
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: What have you seen work for you?
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: What was a waste of time?
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: What was playing office?
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: What's kind of the evolution of the Scott Frank marketing plan, Ben?
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: So the thing is we don't actually market all that much, which is probably normal for most firms, right?
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: But I also don't want to grow an enterprise at this time, right?
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: So a friend of mine who actually did the podcast with Real Personal Finance, he wanted to grow an enterprise and he's doing that, right.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: He went and took the lessons that we were learning doing our podcast.
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: Our podcast got to a point where I think it was doing around I don't know 10,000 or 12,000 downloads a month, right, he was doing pretty well and he took all those lessons and he focused on a niche retirement.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: He called the Retirement Ready podcast.
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: James Canoles, the guy who has it, he's awesome, and so he went and did that.
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: He's been on your show, I'm sure right James is awesome.
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: He went and did that.
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: He started YouTube channels and now he has so many leads coming in that he will be growing an enterprise business right, Because he's crushing marketing.
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: I don't want to do that right now.
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: I enjoy hanging out with my 11-year-old and 5-year-old and being their coach.
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: Maybe it's just a fear that I need to overcome, but I'm fearful that if I do that, I will let the genie out of the bottle, won't be able to put it back in and it will mess with my family life.
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: So I'm really happy being this little boutique, so I don't try to grow if that makes sense.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: But that's the beauty of the XY though.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is the beauty of the XY, and why it works and why people can use it and how the framework is beautiful.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: That's one of my favorite kids' talks that I've ever seen him do in person is like the solopreneur to the boutique, to the enterprise, and you can be one and decide to go to the other one one day.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: But you do need to kind of nail down what it is that you want to do, at least in the beginning, because if you grow and it's expansive, everything is going well and all of a sudden you've hit boutique level.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: But what you really valued was having all of your time and freedom.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: You could be in some trouble there, right?
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: That's a little tough to put it back right.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: It's easy to build it in the future.
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, good analogy with the genie.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: And the other one is yeah, and the size of the firm also doesn't dictate owner's pay.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: A lot of people they think that to make the big bucks you got to go big and sure.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: But there's also like the concept, and you see kids, us all the time, you know your revenue per head, per capita, drops.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: So there's also like Agreed.
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: You look at that study again and again and the solopreneur with a small team makes more per year than until you get to being a very, very large venture Like big enterprise.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: I'm not talking like just going enterprise.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: You have to have billions under management.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like.
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: Carson, and then, of course, your valuation when you exit is a lot better.
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: Right, but the question is what's the journey like along the way.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, now that's exactly, and is it worth it?
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Is it worth it?
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: Is that actually what you want to do?
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: Are you finding yourself being a manager when you really just want to have a lifestyle practice now?
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: Right, and for some people like like you know, I'm not saying it's a bad thing at all, because it's not like I know James and he loves managing people, right, so like that's like his dream right.
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah it's not my dream, so it's just fine to find and that's, I think, at your point, the whole point find what matters to you most and go focus on it, but it's beautiful because you can do your thing, he can do his thing.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: He puts people not through his planning practice, but through the Sequoia, his system.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Like anybody that's listening to that episode be like if this is where you want to go with it, it's amazing.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: Right, but it's not for everybody.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: This has been fun, man.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Before we let you go, is there anything that you kind of thought about before you came on, when you maybe weren't managing to stay in the present as well as you tried to, or just something that would be kind of a good token to let people know that are thinking about getting into the field?
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: Before we let you go, I think.
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: Well, I think the main thing, the thing that I enjoy most about this field, is you get to continually keep learning.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: So if you're in it, if and if you like, if you like working with people and you like learning, I think it's an amazing field for you.
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: I also would say that you are going to want to focus more on the softer skills, which we talked about a little bit today, than the technical.
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: It's not to say that technical isn't important.
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: You need to understand the underpinnings of how financial software works and how tax planning works right, so that you can figure out when things aren't working correctly inside a piece of software.
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: But you don't have to go like use an Excel spreadsheet to build it on your own anymore.
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: Right, you can speed up the technical work so you have more time to do the softer side.
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: But people think the soft side.
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: Because it's soft, they almost think easy.
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: But I would actually say it's probably the hardest thing to learn and it's something you can work on for the rest of your life, yep.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: Well, scott, love how you always keep it real man, for those who want to follow along and see some of your content.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: Where are you most active?
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: Probably just on Twitter, so we'll have a link.
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: It's just Scott, underscore R, underscore Frank, and then yeah, that's it for now.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: Thanks for the time.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: Love it, man.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: Thank you.