Latest / Jeep Talk Show / Ep. 12 Is Your Jeep XJ Shaking? Try This Pinion Angle Fix!

Transcript

Ep. 12 Is Your Jeep XJ Shaking? Try This Pinion Angle Fix! · Jeep Talk Show

• 0:00
  I guess you should talk to her.
• 0:02
  It's on.
• 0:03
  Now.
• 0:29
  Now.
• 0:29
  Now.
• 0:39
  Howdy guys.
• 0:40
  Name here is Tony
• 0:42
  Moteroi from XJtalk.com.
• 0:45
  This is XJtalk.com Show.
• 0:51
  Every Wednesday night, 8pm Central.
• 0:55
  So we've got a few more in the chatroom
• 0:57
  this week than we did last.
• 0:59
  It's amazing what happens when you can
• 1:01
  start the show on time.
• 1:04
  Let's see, what have we got?
• 1:05
  We've got 8 people and 2
• 1:08
  guests and a broadcaster.
• 1:11
  Oh, that'd be me.
• 1:13
  Hello to Weltman,
• 1:15
  Arganard, Punisher72, Dalton4x4.
• 1:21
  Who else do we have there?
• 1:22
  Lizardrunnerxj4iv.
• 1:26
  I bet you Scott's falling asleep.
• 1:29
  I haven't seen him chatting.
• 1:35
  As I mentioned, we have, as I mentioned
• 1:38
  to the folks in the
• 1:39
  chatroom before the show,
• 1:42
  we have Steve Howard,
• 1:45
  4.3LXJ from XJtalk.com.
• 1:49
  He'll be live on the phone tonight.
• 1:51
  In fact, he's on the phone right now.
• 1:53
  And he'll be live.
• 1:55
  We'll be discussing drive
• 1:57
  angles for your Jeep Cherokee.
• 2:00
  We'll get started here in just a minute.
• 2:37
  This segment is brought to you by Ironman
• 2:39
  4x4, the toughest,
• 2:41
  most adjustable control
• 2:42
  arms in the industry.
• 2:44
  Ironman 4x4 has a wide variety of rugged
• 2:46
  off-road suspension
• 2:48
  products that are overbuilt and
• 2:49
  underpriced.
• 2:50
  Visit Ironman4x4fab.com today.
• 2:54
  That's Ironman4x4fab.com.
• 2:58
  XJtalk.com.
• 3:00
  XJtalk.com.
• 3:01
  It's where you go.
• 3:02
  When you're not off-road.
• 3:04
  Yeah, and actually, Andy at
• 3:06
  Ironman4x4fab.com is hooking me up with
• 3:10
  some adjustable lower
• 3:11
  control arms.
• 3:13
  We're doing a little trading on
• 3:14
  advertisement on XJtalk, and
• 3:17
  he's hooking me up with some
• 3:19
  matching lower control arms, just like
• 3:21
  the upper control arms
• 3:22
  that I got from him not
• 3:23
  too long ago.
• 3:24
  So, I will be fully Ironman-ed connected
• 3:28
  to my unibody and to my front axle.
• 3:32
  I'm pretty happy about that.
• 3:34
  I've been wanting to get the front end
• 3:36
  aligned, and I really
• 3:37
  didn't want to do it if I didn't
• 3:38
  have a way to adjust the lower control
• 3:41
  arms, because I've got
• 3:42
  the original rough country
• 3:44
  lift control arms on there.
• 3:46
  Okay, let's get Steve on the phone.
• 3:50
  Somebody's calling.
• 3:50
  Somebody entered the jam phone.
• 3:55
  It's an XJtalk live phone call.
• 3:57
  Hello, Steve.
• 3:58
  Are you there?
• 3:59
  I'm there.
• 4:00
  Excellent.
• 4:01
  I haven't got any video
• 4:02
  yet, though, on my screen.
• 4:04
  Do you have anything that you're doing,
• 4:06
  you know, like devices?
• 4:07
  You may have to refresh it.
• 4:09
  There's the banners up.
• 4:11
  Yeah, I've got the banner up, but I
• 4:12
  haven't had anything
• 4:13
  else with the commercial.
• 4:14
  No, no.
• 4:14
  There's no video for the commercials.
• 4:16
  It's all ... This is kind of a
• 4:18
  pseudo-radio station type thing.
• 4:19
  Okay.
• 4:20
  So don't really do any kind of a video
• 4:24
  that go along with the commercial.
• 4:25
  That would be nice, but the primary focus
• 4:27
  of the show, in case any
• 4:28
  of you guys are wondering
• 4:29
  or anybody listening on the podcast, the
• 4:31
  primary focus of the show is audio.
• 4:33
  We throw the video up since we do the
• 4:35
  live show, so don't
• 4:37
  expect much from the video,
• 4:38
  okay?
• 4:39
  All right.
• 4:39
  I'm not expecting much.
• 4:42
  Can you guys hear Steve okay?
• 4:43
  That would be me
• 4:44
  asking you in the chat room.
• 4:46
  Okay, good.
• 4:47
  Yep, everything.
• 4:48
  Wow, Arganard can
• 4:49
  actually hear for a change.
• 4:51
  It seems like your audio is always lower
• 4:53
  on your computer there, Rainey.
• 4:55
  Glad to hear it's sounding good.
• 4:57
  That's okay, Dalsin.
• 4:58
  We can't hear your
• 4:58
  grandson practicing his voice.
• 5:00
  Headphones, that's a really good idea.
• 5:02
  When I'm listening to ... Arganard says
• 5:04
  he's using headphones,
• 5:05
  but when I'm listening to
• 5:06
  a show, especially live shows, I find
• 5:09
  that it's best to use
• 5:10
  headphones because the audio
• 5:12
  levels can change so
• 5:13
  much, you know, all this.
• 5:14
  This is much like how the broadcast
• 5:17
  started in the 50s, you know?
• 5:19
  You could never be sure
• 5:20
  what was going to happen.
• 5:21
  Okay, Steve, I've been promoting here
• 5:25
  over the last hour or so
• 5:26
  that you're going to be
• 5:26
  talking about drive line angles.
• 5:30
  You may have a better way of putting it,
• 5:31
  or maybe I misread
• 5:33
  the pictures altogether.
• 5:34
  So what exactly is it
• 5:36
  that you're going to discuss?
• 5:37
  Well, that's basically what it involves,
• 5:38
  too, is how to set up a
• 5:39
  drive line once you lift
• 5:41
  an XJ.
• 5:42
  We get that question so many times
• 5:44
  because people will buy a
• 5:46
  lift kit, and then as soon
• 5:50
  as they get it in and then they take it
• 5:52
  for a spin at 45 miles
• 5:54
  an hour, they've got all
• 5:56
  this shaking going on, and
• 5:58
  they want to know how to fix it.
• 6:00
  So what I wanted to do tonight is to go
• 6:03
  over the procedure on
• 6:05
  how to set the drive line
• 6:07
  up after your lift kit's done.
• 6:09
  And that way you won't have to worry
• 6:11
  about the drive shaft
• 6:13
  vibrations and think, "Oh,
• 6:15
  what did I do now?"
• 6:17
  And correct me if I'm wrong, this is
• 6:18
  actually a fairly simple
• 6:20
  procedure, but it's probably
• 6:21
  one of the most confusing things to do.
• 6:23
  Well, it seems to be for a lot of folks.
• 6:25
  It's not confusing to
• 6:26
  me, but I've done it a lot.
• 6:27
  Well, experience is
• 6:28
  always the best teacher.
• 6:30
  Yeah, I started out doing this a long
• 6:33
  time ago when I was a firefighter.
• 6:37
  I used my considerable time off to seek
• 6:42
  employment at a local
• 6:43
  four-wheel drive shop, and we did
• 6:46
  engine conversions and axle conversions
• 6:48
  and suspension conversions.
• 6:50
  And so we were always
• 6:52
  setting drive lines up.
• 6:54
  And then later on I started up my own
• 6:57
  business doing custom
• 7:00
  lift kits, and that was back
• 7:02
  in the middle 70s.
• 7:04
  And I did that for about four or five
• 7:07
  years until Rancho put
• 7:08
  me out of business because
• 7:09
  I couldn't compete with them.
• 7:11
  I think I had a Rancho.
• 7:12
  I think I had that on my 83 Chevy pickup.
• 7:15
  That sounds familiar.
• 7:16
  Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised.
• 7:18
  A lot of people have Rancho stuff.
• 7:20
  It was pretty cheap.
• 7:21
  It seems like I got a four-inch lift for
• 7:23
  like $180 bucks or something.
• 7:25
  Yeah, yeah, well, I
• 7:26
  couldn't compete with that.
• 7:27
  My four-inch lifts, I think at the time,
• 7:30
  I was selling for
• 7:30
  about $300 bucks, and then
• 7:32
  I wouldn't install them.
• 7:33
  That was extra.
• 7:33
  I actually had mine installed.
• 7:36
  I was like, gosh, 22, 23 years old.
• 7:39
  So I was cruising, man.
• 7:41
  Of course, at that time, I didn't realize
• 7:43
  that lift kits were new.
• 7:45
  To me, it was what a lot of people around
• 7:49
  Baytown, Texas were doing.
• 7:51
  Of course, a lot of people had six-inch
• 7:52
  lifts, and I didn't want to go as high.
• 7:54
  I didn't like all that distance between
• 7:56
  the top of the tire and
• 7:58
  the fender of the truck.
• 8:00
  Yeah.
• 8:01
  Well, a four-inch was all you really
• 8:03
  needed for most of the
• 8:05
  tires until they started getting
• 8:08
  taller tires, and then that
• 8:09
  necessitated taller lifts.
• 8:11
  But yeah, a four-inch on
• 8:12
  those Chevys was just fine.
• 8:14
  Yep, I had 36.5-inch tires.
• 8:16
  Loved those tires.
• 8:17
  They were a little skinny, but I didn't
• 8:20
  know what I was doing.
• 8:20
  I just went to the tire shop and told
• 8:22
  them that I wanted the big tire.
• 8:25
  I wanted the tire big enough to fit under
• 8:26
  the truck with the lift on it.
• 8:28
  I think I wound up having to cut some of
• 8:30
  the fender there in the parking lot.
• 8:31
  They supplied the hacksaw.
• 8:35
  That's why you needed a six-inch lift.
• 8:37
  Yeah, I guess so.
• 8:38
  But I got a lot of compliments on it
• 8:40
  because it looked different.
• 8:42
  That was a nice thing.
• 8:43
  It looked different than everybody else.
• 8:46
  So I didn't have a six-inch lift.
• 8:47
  I had a four-inch lift, and it got me
• 8:48
  everywhere I wanted to go.
• 8:50
  Well, people that I talked to that had
• 8:52
  six-inch lifts in those
• 8:53
  days were really complaining
• 8:55
  about the gas mileage on those Chevys.
• 8:58
  It was like eight miles to a gallon or
• 8:59
  something like that.
• 9:00
  Yeah, I wasn't getting very good gas
• 9:02
  mileage, but back then,
• 9:04
  it wasn't that big a deal.
• 9:05
  I had dual tanks on it as well.
• 9:06
  Yes, we are.
• 9:07
  We are old Farts.
• 9:09
  This old Fart has a really nice Jeep.
• 9:12
  There it is, jealous.
• 9:16
  It's not the aged big
• 9:18
  Jim, it's the mileage.
• 9:19
  You're putting a lot
• 9:20
  of mileage on right now.
• 9:22
  It's all the holes.
• 9:25
  What are you doing?
• 9:26
  It's true.
• 9:28
  Well, that 83 Chevy that I
• 9:30
  had, it looked really nice.
• 9:32
  It was midnight blue.
• 9:33
  And I never could pronounce the word
• 9:35
  toner, tonier cover with
• 9:38
  a Velcro to hold it on.
• 9:40
  I didn't like the snaps.
• 9:41
  And the cool thing was I had
• 9:46
  a push bar on the front of it.
• 9:47
  Of course, I didn't know
• 9:48
  what the hell I was doing.
• 9:49
  And I got a lot of
• 9:52
  looks, a lot of compliments.
• 9:54
  It was very high, but it
• 9:56
  wasn't two inches higher.
• 9:58
  So I could still get in and out of it.
• 9:59
  I still had to grab hold of
• 10:00
  the steering wheel to get in.
• 10:02
  And I had mudder tires
• 10:04
  on it, so it was a blast.
• 10:06
  A lot of compliments.
• 10:07
  It was very much like having the Jeep,
• 10:10
  whenever I lifted the Jeep.
• 10:11
  I got so many compliments.
• 10:12
  It was very reminiscent of what I had
• 10:14
  done so many years earlier.
• 10:16
  But the transmission was
• 10:18
  ****.
• 10:19
  That went out on me under warranty.
• 10:21
  And the engine
• 10:22
  developed a knocking sound.
• 10:25
  They had it for 30 days at the dealership
• 10:27
  trying to fix that knocking sound.
• 10:28
  And I think all it was, all it wound up
• 10:30
  being was the rod that
• 10:34
  the oil pump gets pushed
• 10:36
  by from the, I think it's the crankshaft.
• 10:40
  Maybe it's the, I can't remember if it's
• 10:41
  the camshaft or a crank.
• 10:43
  Anyway, the little rod that pushed the,
• 10:45
  that pushed the oil
• 10:46
  pump, it was, there was a gap
• 10:47
  and it was slapping it.
• 10:48
  But they fixed it, but only, I don't know
• 10:50
  why the hell, number
• 10:51
  one, I don't know why
• 10:52
  they had it for 30 days.
• 10:53
  And number two, I don't know why I let
• 10:54
  them keep it for 30 days.
• 10:55
  But they literally had it a month.
• 10:56
  Yeah, that 305 was way
• 10:59
  underpowered for that truck.
• 11:00
  Yeah, that wasn't one
• 11:02
  of their better motors.
• 11:03
  No, I mean, the 350 would have been
• 11:05
  better, but a nice like 400.
• 11:09
  I don't, and I don't know
• 11:10
  what was available on 83.
• 11:12
  A nice 400, something either a more cube,
• 11:17
  small block or better
• 11:18
  yet a big block would
• 11:19
  have been much better for that truck,
• 11:20
  especially with the 36
• 11:21
  and a half inch tires on it.
• 11:23
  Yeah, big blocks are
• 11:24
  always better in trucks.
• 11:25
  Yep, love that torque.
• 11:27
  So Steve, we can get
• 11:29
  going anytime you're ready to.
• 11:31
  I'm fine, let's go.
• 11:32
  So what's the first thing we need to talk
• 11:34
  about when it comes to drive line angles?
• 11:36
  Drive line angles, I'll get it right.
• 11:38
  Well, the first thing you need to do is
• 11:40
  to figure out what kind
• 11:43
  of drive line setup you're
• 11:44
  going to have, whether you're going to
• 11:45
  use a conventional drive
• 11:47
  line like the stock drive
• 11:48
  line or whether you're going to use a
• 11:50
  sloped yoke eliminator,
• 11:52
  because the procedures are
• 11:53
  different for setting those two up.
• 11:56
  So if you want to get the first picture
• 12:00
  up that I had there, we'll
• 12:02
  start with the conventional
• 12:03
  drive line.
• 12:04
  And you can set these up on any XJ up to
• 12:09
  a four and a half inch lift.
• 12:11
  And this is an image right
• 12:13
  off of Tom Wood's website.
• 12:15
  And the point here is that you're looking
• 12:18
  at the engine and it looks level.
• 12:20
  And if you draw a line through the pinion
• 12:22
  shaft, it looks level also.
• 12:25
  And what you have to do is
• 12:28
  to match those two angles.
• 12:30
  And when you lift a Jeep, many times
• 12:33
  those two angles are not matched anymore.
• 12:35
  They're matched at the
• 12:36
  factory fairly close.
• 12:37
  They're within a couple of degrees.
• 12:40
  If you're anywhere within five degrees
• 12:43
  difference on those, you probably won't
• 12:46
  have any vibrations.
• 12:48
  Once you hit about five
• 12:49
  degrees, they start vibrating.
• 12:51
  And six, you start feeling it.
• 12:53
  And if you get to seven, it's going to
• 12:55
  shake you out of the rig.
• 12:56
  So the object of this whole exercise is
• 13:00
  just to match those angles.
• 13:01
  And the only way that you really know how
• 13:03
  to do it is to get an
• 13:07
  angle finder and take
• 13:08
  the measurements.
• 13:10
  There's really no other way to do it
• 13:11
  except just throw parts
• 13:12
  at it and keep buying them
• 13:14
  until you get the right
• 13:16
  combination and it stops on you.
• 13:17
  So in this situation, you wouldn't want
• 13:21
  to shim anything to try
• 13:22
  to fix it because that
• 13:24
  would put the angle greater as you raise
• 13:28
  or change the angle of the axle.
• 13:30
  Correct?
• 13:31
  Well, actually, you
• 13:32
  probably might want to shim it.
• 13:34
  I guess you could shim it in the back so
• 13:36
  it would rotate the axle forward.
• 13:39
  Well, I'll show you how to figure it out.
• 13:41
  Usually what happens is you end up
• 13:45
  tipping the pin down in this situation.
• 13:48
  What happens is if you get a lift kit
• 13:52
  with, say, an extended
• 13:54
  shackle, if you, for every
• 13:57
  inch that shackle is extended, according
• 13:59
  to my high school
• 14:00
  geometry, it changes the pinion
• 14:02
  angle by about one degree.
• 14:04
  So if you put on a four-inch extension on
• 14:10
  your shackle, four-inch extended shackle,
• 14:12
  and you already have a two-degree
• 14:14
  difference in the angle to
• 14:17
  start with from the factory,
• 14:18
  then what's going to happen is that puts
• 14:21
  you, if you add them
• 14:22
  up, if they're in the same
• 14:23
  direction about six degrees out, and it
• 14:25
  will probably vibrate.
• 14:27
  And adding an extended shackle is one of
• 14:29
  the most common causes
• 14:31
  of a vibration in a rear
• 14:34
  drive line on a
• 14:35
  Cherokee I think there is.
• 14:37
  So the point is, now, also, each lift kit
• 14:42
  manufacturer designs their own springs.
• 14:45
  And some of them are curved a little
• 14:48
  differently than others, and
• 14:50
  some of them come with shims
• 14:52
  already on the springs.
• 14:54
  There's no rule of thumb for that.
• 14:56
  And so what you have to do is once you
• 15:00
  get it installed and get
• 15:01
  the weight on the vehicle
• 15:03
  and it's sitting there, you just have to
• 15:05
  get an angle finder
• 15:05
  out and start taking some
• 15:08
  measurements so you'll know whether or
• 15:10
  not you need to make
• 15:11
  any other corrections.
• 15:12
  So let's go to the next
• 15:14
  picture, if you would.
• 15:15
  Okay, let me ask you a
• 15:16
  quick question about this one.
• 15:17
  This is an example of a stock XJ.
• 15:21
  This would be with the SYE.
• 15:24
  I'm sorry, not with the SYE, the stock
• 15:25
  with the Slippy Oak.
• 15:27
  Yeah, stock drive line,
• 15:28
  and one you join at each end.
• 15:30
  Okay.
• 15:32
  Okay, well, I'll save that because I
• 15:34
  think you're going to
• 15:34
  answer it because the four
• 15:36
  and a half inch springs that I got from
• 15:38
  Rough Country had a
• 15:39
  little angled piece of metal
• 15:41
  built into it.
• 15:42
  So I think that would have
• 15:44
  rotated the way it's on there.
• 15:47
  It would have rotated
• 15:47
  the axle or the pinion up.
• 15:50
  So I'm a little concerned.
• 15:52
  I did buy an angle finder.
• 15:53
  I just haven't used it yet.
• 15:54
  So I'm going to be paying an inch and
• 15:56
  probably asking questions
• 15:57
  here for myself as well.
• 15:59
  Okay, good one.
• 16:00
  Not by me, you're okay.
• 16:01
  You really, you know, you're okay.
• 16:03
  But it's fun to play with so that you
• 16:04
  know about it in case you
• 16:05
  want to go a little higher
• 16:06
  or something.
• 16:07
  Well, actually, I am getting vibration,
• 16:09
  and I was going to ask that too.
• 16:11
  I think we've
• 16:12
  discussed this on the forum.
• 16:17
  I get vibration during acceleration.
• 16:20
  I mean, I get vibration
• 16:21
  while I'm going down the road.
• 16:22
  It's hard to tell if it's the tires or if
• 16:24
  it's the drive line.
• 16:25
  But I do notice a little more vibration
• 16:28
  during acceleration
• 16:29
  around 55 miles an hour.
• 16:30
  This wouldn't give you vibration at a
• 16:33
  certain speed or during acceleration.
• 16:35
  This would be a constant
• 16:37
  vibration, I would assume.
• 16:39
  Not always.
• 16:40
  Sometimes 55 is kind of the magic number.
• 16:44
  It's kind of like it
• 16:45
  is for death wobble too.
• 16:47
  Death wobble seems to like that speed.
• 16:49
  It can come at around
• 16:53
  55 and then leave again.
• 16:56
  Just due to the speed of the
• 16:58
  drive shaft, it will fade out.
• 17:01
  It doesn't have enough time to really
• 17:03
  start moving anything
• 17:05
  else around so you don't feel
• 17:06
  as much.
• 17:07
  Okay.
• 17:08
  But sometimes if it's really out a long
• 17:12
  ways, you can start in
• 17:15
  at 35 miles an hour, and
• 17:17
  by the time you hit 65, you're wondering
• 17:20
  if the XJ is going to
• 17:22
  start busting all the
• 17:23
  spot welds.
• 17:24
  Yeah, no, I don't
• 17:25
  have that problem at all.
• 17:26
  So, okay, I'll bring up the next picture.
• 17:28
  Okay.
• 17:29
  Okay, the first thing you want to do is
• 17:31
  to disconnect the rear drive line.
• 17:33
  And I have to apologize because this
• 17:35
  picture is kind of dark
• 17:36
  because I wanted to show something
• 17:37
  that's kind of
• 17:38
  important when you do this.
• 17:40
  If you've got a stock Dana 35, and I'm
• 17:44
  not sure about the
• 17:46
  eight and a quarters, but on
• 17:47
  the Dana 35, the pinion yoke uses straps
• 17:52
  to hold in the U-joint.
• 17:54
  And those straps, when you
• 17:55
  bolt them down, they stretch.
• 17:58
  And normally, somebody like Tom Woods,
• 18:02
  when you buy a drive
• 18:03
  line from them, they want
• 18:04
  to sell you straps.
• 18:05
  And their reasoning is that you don't
• 18:07
  want to throw a drive line.
• 18:09
  And they recommend that every time you
• 18:13
  disconnect your drive line
• 18:14
  to get new straps and new
• 18:15
  bolts to go with it.
• 18:17
  I've never bought new bolts, and I've
• 18:19
  taken my drive line off a
• 18:20
  bunch, and I haven't noticed
• 18:21
  any problem.
• 18:23
  That's kind of a Jeep recommendation, and
• 18:25
  I'm not sure it's really necessary.
• 18:27
  But the straps, I have stretched straps
• 18:30
  before and thrown drive
• 18:32
  lines on some 1350U joints
• 18:34
  on my old Dodge pickup.
• 18:35
  So this is something you
• 18:37
  have to pay attention to.
• 18:39
  Now, what I did here, if you can see it,
• 18:42
  is I only took the
• 18:43
  straps loose on one side and
• 18:46
  pulled the bolts out and then rotated the
• 18:47
  straps so that they go
• 18:49
  back in the exact same
• 18:50
  position.
• 18:51
  So basically, they should
• 18:54
  not need any new ones this way.
• 18:59
  You need to make sure that those straps
• 19:04
  don't get in a different position.
• 19:05
  Now, I see someone says that
• 19:07
  I'm touching go on the audio.
• 19:10
  Is it better now?
• 19:11
  Or am I garbling up on
• 19:14
  your end at all, Tony?
• 19:15
  No, it may be something related to
• 19:18
  U-stream or bandwidth,
• 19:19
  because you're constant here.
• 19:21
  I'm watching all the little lights and
• 19:23
  gauges, and you're fine.
• 19:25
  Okay.
• 19:26
  All right.
• 19:26
  Well, I want to make
• 19:27
  sure they can hear me.
• 19:28
  No sense in listening to me, if you can't
• 19:29
  understand what I'm saying.
• 19:30
  So anyway, first thing you do is, you
• 19:33
  know, I've jacked my Jeep
• 19:34
  up here, and I disconnected
• 19:36
  the rear drive line, and the straps are
• 19:38
  still attached loosely at one end.
• 19:40
  So I can keep track of them that way.
• 19:42
  They'll go back on exactly
• 19:43
  the way that they came off.
• 19:46
  Okay.
• 19:47
  Let's go to the next slide right here.
• 19:50
  Okay.
• 19:50
  It's up.
• 19:51
  It may be a while
• 19:52
  before you see it, Steve.
• 19:53
  So you might want to start talking about
• 19:54
  it as soon as I say it's up.
• 19:56
  Okay.
• 19:56
  Well, I don't have it.
• 19:57
  There it is.
• 19:58
  Okay.
• 19:58
  So here's the angle finder.
• 20:00
  There's my old craft
• 20:01
  center that I've had forever.
• 20:02
  I kicked around my toolbox, made a couple
• 20:04
  of moves and everything that lasts a long
• 20:06
  time.
• 20:07
  What you want to do with this first
• 20:09
  measurement is you want to measure the
• 20:11
  angle of your transfer
• 20:12
  case.
• 20:12
  Now, this is my disc parking brake on the
• 20:16
  back of my Atlas,
• 20:18
  since I don't have a 231
• 20:19
  in anymore, or a 242.
• 20:22
  But one of the good places to take this
• 20:26
  measurement on either one
• 20:27
  of those new process transfer
• 20:29
  cases is the fill nut.
• 20:31
  It's machined, and it's machined at an
• 20:33
  exact right angle to the
• 20:36
  shaft that goes through
• 20:38
  the transfer case, the output shaft.
• 20:40
  So the way these angle finders are set
• 20:42
  up, they're set up in
• 20:44
  90-degree increments.
• 20:45
  So you can rotate them any way you want.
• 20:47
  And if you're checking the angle of
• 20:49
  something that's 90
• 20:50
  degrees different, it comes out
• 20:52
  exactly right.
• 20:53
  So I checked the angle of my transfer
• 20:57
  case, and it's five degrees.
• 20:58
  So what I have to do now, if I'm going to
• 21:01
  set up a standard driveline, is I have to
• 21:05
  match that angle on the pinion, or get
• 21:08
  within a few degrees.
• 21:10
  Preferably somewhere in the neighborhood
• 21:12
  of two or three degrees
• 21:13
  would be satisfactory.
• 21:15
  So once I've taken this
• 21:16
  measurement, that's my goal.
• 21:18
  That's the measurement that I've got to
• 21:20
  shoot for on the pinion.
• 21:22
  Is there anything-- I'm sorry, Steve.
• 21:24
  Is there anything special you have to do
• 21:25
  on this angle finder?
• 21:26
  Because I've got the angle finder, but
• 21:29
  you have to-- do you
• 21:30
  center it to zero, or-- I
• 21:33
  mean, you just stick it on
• 21:34
  there and read what it says?
• 21:36
  It's already zero.
• 21:37
  There's a pointer on there.
• 21:38
  Don't let that pointer throw you.
• 21:40
  You can adjust that.
• 21:41
  Put it any place you want.
• 21:42
  I've never used that pointer.
• 21:44
  The thing that you have to pay attention
• 21:46
  to here on the-- you'll notice that there
• 21:50
  are four places on that angle finder.
• 21:54
  If you're looking at the
• 21:54
  numbers, where there's a zero.
• 21:57
  And then you notice the red there with
• 22:00
  that white line in the middle of it.
• 22:03
  So you can see that the zero there, if
• 22:06
  you can-- it's not a
• 22:07
  very big image, but that
• 22:08
  zero is just to the
• 22:09
  left of that white line.
• 22:12
  And so there's about a five-- that
• 22:14
  pointer's on about five degrees there.
• 22:17
  So you're talking about the large red
• 22:20
  mark, the translucent
• 22:21
  red that's at the bottom of
• 22:23
  the gauge.
• 22:24
  And you're actually reading the little
• 22:26
  white line, where the
• 22:26
  white line is, is where the--
• 22:28
  how many degrees you're reading the
• 22:31
  number of degrees for the
• 22:32
  angle of the transfer case.
• 22:33
  Yes, that is correct.
• 22:34
  OK.
• 22:35
  And guys, and people listening on the
• 22:37
  podcast, this will be--
• 22:39
  I'll have the images available
• 22:41
  on the podcast site.
• 22:43
  So if you don't know where that is, I'll
• 22:46
  just tell you real quick, it's
• 22:47
  podcasts.plural.xjtalk.com.
• 22:51
  Or you can just go to xjtalk.com and
• 22:53
  click on Podcasts on the
• 22:54
  nav bar at the very top.
• 22:56
  OK, go ahead, Steve.
• 22:57
  OK, so we've got that
• 22:59
  five degree measurement.
• 23:01
  Now the next measurement you take is on
• 23:04
  the face of the pinion.
• 23:05
  And the reason that we disconnected that
• 23:07
  drive shaft is there's no
• 23:08
  place to take that except
• 23:10
  on the pinion yoke, unless
• 23:12
  you pull a differential cover.
• 23:14
  But we don't need to do that.
• 23:15
  So that's why we
• 23:16
  disconnected the end of that drive line.
• 23:20
  So now let's go to the next slide here.
• 23:22
  OK, number four is the CV angle.
• 23:24
  Is that what you're looking for?
• 23:25
  Yeah, you need to measure the face on
• 23:28
  that pinion, you
• 23:29
  know, where the straps go.
• 23:31
  OK, this shows the double--
• 23:32
  what is it, double cardigan?
• 23:34
  CV joint?
• 23:35
  You want another one?
• 23:35
  The angle of the shaft,
• 23:37
  we're still doing that.
• 23:38
  I'm sorry?
• 23:39
  Right, but this is number four.
• 23:40
  Do you want number four or number five?
• 23:42
  Whatever the next one is, it would be
• 23:44
  number four, I guess.
• 23:45
  OK, number four is up.
• 23:46
  It says the proper
• 23:47
  geometry for CV drive shaft.
• 23:49
  Oh, we missed one someplace.
• 23:52
  OK, let me just explain it.
• 23:55
  Would it be this one?
• 23:56
  This is number five.
• 23:57
  Yeah, we missed one somewhere.
• 23:59
  That's all right.
• 23:59
  Let me just explain it.
• 24:01
  OK.
• 24:01
  What you need to do is to measure the
• 24:04
  machine surface on the
• 24:08
  pinion, that yoke there.
• 24:09
  That's why we disconnected the drive
• 24:11
  shaft so that we can get
• 24:12
  a nice flat spot there.
• 24:14
  You measure that angle, and let's say
• 24:16
  it's 10 degrees or
• 24:21
  maybe it's only two degrees.
• 24:23
  We don't know.
• 24:25
  Let's say, for instance, that we had
• 24:27
  about a five degree angle
• 24:28
  on it to start with, and
• 24:30
  just for instance, we put in a four inch
• 24:35
  extended shackle with our kit.
• 24:37
  And now what we have is
• 24:39
  something around nine or 10 degrees.
• 24:41
  That's a very common scenario.
• 24:43
  So what's going to happen there is that
• 24:46
  that drive shaft is going to vibrate
• 24:49
  because it's a little bit too far out.
• 24:51
  So what we want to do
• 24:53
  is a little subtraction.
• 24:54
  We're going to subtract five from 10 and
• 24:55
  we get five degrees.
• 24:57
  And so now what we would do is we would
• 25:01
  go down-- what I would do, I'd just go
• 25:04
  down into Chico and I'd go to Payless and
• 25:06
  4x4, and I'd get myself a
• 25:08
  four degree shim for the axle.
• 25:10
  And that shim, and I'd also get a stop at
• 25:14
  Napa and get a new center bolt.
• 25:16
  And so then I would put a C clamp on that
• 25:19
  spring, that rear spring.
• 25:21
  I would take the old center bolt out and
• 25:23
  I would install this shim into the spring
• 25:27
  pack with the center bolt.
• 25:29
  So when you say shim and center bolt, it
• 25:32
  would actually be a pair because it would
• 25:33
  be on both leaf springs.
• 25:36
  Yeah, you do it on both sides.
• 25:37
  Okay, and let me just make sure real
• 25:39
  quick, I have the image up where you have
• 25:41
  the angle finder on the yoke.
• 25:46
  So just so everybody understands, and I'm
• 25:49
  going to just kind of draw in here, the
• 25:51
  yoke is this part right here.
• 25:55
  And I don't know how long it will take
• 25:57
  for this to show up.
• 25:58
  So basically where the bolts and the
• 26:00
  straps go is-- and I would assume it's on
• 26:03
  either side of the yoke, Steve.
• 26:08
  That flat surface.
• 26:09
  You can use the other side, except that I
• 26:10
  left my straps on, remember?
• 26:12
  So you can only use one side.
• 26:13
  Oh, okay.
• 26:14
  So whichever side doesn't have the strap,
• 26:17
  if you took them both off, then--
• 26:18
  Which doesn't have the straps.
• 26:20
  So you can use either side, and it's just
• 26:22
  basically where the bolts
• 26:24
  go to hold on the straps.
• 26:25
  So that's the area
• 26:27
  where you put this thing.
• 26:28
  And there's no adjustment on the angle
• 26:30
  finder, you just read what it says.
• 26:32
  And again, it's the large red area and
• 26:36
  you actually read what's in that little
• 26:37
  window, at least on this
• 26:39
  specific type of angle finder.
• 26:41
  Yours may be different.
• 26:43
  Yeah.
• 26:43
  And that reading
• 26:44
  there is about 14 degrees.
• 26:46
  Wow.
• 26:47
  Okay.
• 26:47
  Now, I just-- my Jeep is set up for a
• 26:51
  single yoke eliminator.
• 26:52
  I've taken my axle loose and I just let
• 26:54
  it flop and I said, "Yeah, that looks
• 26:56
  about right. I'll take that measurement."
• 26:58
  So I took that
• 27:02
  measurement as a, for instance.
• 27:03
  Now, what I would do is I would subtract
• 27:04
  that 5 degrees from that 14 degrees.
• 27:07
  That gives me 9.
• 27:08
  Now, you can get shims in
• 27:10
  2, 4, and 6 degree shims.
• 27:13
  And that's about it.
• 27:14
  So I would go get myself a
• 27:15
  6 degree shim in this case.
• 27:17
  Okay, wait a minute.
• 27:18
  Why would you subtract that?
• 27:19
  Why would you subtract the 5 that you got
• 27:21
  from the back of your
• 27:23
  transfer case from the 14 here?
• 27:25
  Oh, okay.
• 27:26
  The-- you have 5 on
• 27:29
  the transfer case, right?
• 27:30
  Right.
• 27:31
  And you want to make the pinion as close
• 27:35
  to 5 degrees as possible.
• 27:37
  So what you want to do is find the
• 27:38
  difference between that 5 degrees that
• 27:41
  you're aiming for and what you have.
• 27:44
  Are the 2 5 degrees-- I mean, sorry, is
• 27:47
  the angle-- the angle's supposed to be
• 27:48
  the same on both the
• 27:50
  transfer case and the pinion.
• 27:52
  Right.
• 27:53
  And so 5 degrees is where you want it to
• 27:55
  be, but it's not 5
• 27:56
  degrees there now. It's at 14.
• 27:58
  So I'm going to subtract 5
• 28:00
  and I get 9 degrees, right?
• 28:02
  Okay.
• 28:02
  But is it possible that it could be
• 28:04
  leaning the other way?
• 28:05
  In other words, it could
• 28:06
  be a negative 3 degrees or--
• 28:08
  It could end up any old way.
• 28:10
  And especially if you get a lift kit with
• 28:12
  a shim in it and you've added a shackle
• 28:14
  or you've added a-- what
• 28:17
  do they call those kits?
• 28:19
  Blocks or something?
• 28:21
  Oh, anyway, it changes the angle of your
• 28:24
  shackle, you know, and that puts about
• 28:27
  another 2 inches on the end of a--
• 28:31
  it's like a 2 inch extended
• 28:32
  shackle when you get done.
• 28:34
  You know, there's any number of things
• 28:36
  that you can do while you're changing
• 28:38
  your suspension that
• 28:40
  will alter that angle.
• 28:42
  And that's why you need to measure it.
• 28:44
  There's no rule of thumb.
• 28:45
  I understand that, but I'm talking
• 28:47
  about-- is it-- you
• 28:49
  always subtract the 2 values?
• 28:51
  Yeah, you always subtract the little one
• 28:53
  from the big one so that you get-- find
• 28:55
  how much difference there is.
• 28:56
  Okay.
• 28:57
  And the difference-- that difference, you
• 28:59
  want to get a shim that's as close to
• 29:01
  that difference as you can.
• 29:03
  So in this case, I can only get a 6
• 29:05
  degree shim. That's
• 29:07
  the biggest I can get.
• 29:08
  So I would go down and get myself a 6
• 29:10
  degree shim and install that.
• 29:12
  Okay, and that would get me down 6
• 29:15
  degrees from 14 is down to 8 degrees.
• 29:19
  That's within 3 degrees
• 29:20
  of my transfer case angle.
• 29:22
  And so now that driveline, even though
• 29:24
  it's not perfect, is close enough that
• 29:28
  it's not going to vibrate.
• 29:29
  And would that also be close enough to
• 29:31
  keep the-- from eating up U-joints?
• 29:34
  On a 4.5 inch lift, yeah, it's close
• 29:36
  enough that you don't have
• 29:37
  to worry about your U-joints.
• 29:38
  Okay.
• 29:39
  Once you go above 4.5 inches, the problem
• 29:43
  you run into is that our pinion slip
• 29:46
  yokes are very limited on the
• 29:48
  angle they will accommodate.
• 29:49
  And so you have to-- if you want to keep
• 29:51
  a standard driveline, and you can go
• 29:53
  higher than 4.5 inches and
• 29:55
  keep a standard driveline,
• 29:56
  what you have to do is to get a YJ slip
• 30:00
  yoke or a 231 transfer case.
• 30:03
  Those slip yokes have a longer shaft on
• 30:06
  them, or longer sleeve
• 30:08
  that goes over the shaft,
• 30:09
  and they're also cut deeper so that they
• 30:12
  will accommodate more angle.
• 30:14
  Okay.
• 30:15
  And if you've ever been under a YJ, they
• 30:18
  have a steep angle to start with before
• 30:20
  you lift them on that drive shaft.
• 30:22
  Right.
• 30:22
  Because they're so short.
• 30:24
  That's why they're designed that way.
• 30:26
  Rustys sells them.
• 30:28
  Any data dealer can find one for you.
• 30:31
  Or you can go to Jeep and
• 30:32
  pay a lot of money for one.
• 30:34
  But either way--
• 30:35
  That would be my choice.
• 30:36
  Yeah.
• 30:37
  But you want to get as close-- those
• 30:39
  angles, as close as you can.
• 30:41
  I see Weldman or Detour
• 30:43
  says two degrees is preferable.
• 30:44
  I agree.
• 30:46
  I would think zero would be what you
• 30:47
  would be shooting for, but you don't want
• 30:49
  to stack shims, do you?
• 30:51
  Well, it's going to be fat on one end.
• 30:53
  Okay.
• 30:54
  Now, here's the trick.
• 30:55
  Depending on which way the pinion is
• 30:57
  rotated determines on which side the
• 30:59
  fat-- which end of the
• 31:01
  spring the fat end goes.
• 31:03
  Okay.
• 31:03
  Okay.
• 31:04
  Now, with this one, the way I have it
• 31:07
  measured here, I need to
• 31:09
  bring the pinion angle down.
• 31:11
  So I would put the fat side on the back.
• 31:14
  Towards the back of the Jeep.
• 31:16
  Right, towards the back of the Jeep.
• 31:17
  If the pinion is too low for the transfer
• 31:21
  case angle, then I would
• 31:23
  put the fat side in the front,
• 31:24
  and it would raise the pinion up.
• 31:26
  And I would assume you can check that
• 31:27
  just by taking the angle finder and
• 31:31
  physically moving it and
• 31:33
  seeing which way it needs to go.
• 31:35
  That way you could verify if it needed to
• 31:36
  go to the front or the back.
• 31:37
  Yeah, and after you put your axle or your
• 31:41
  shim in and raise your axle up and let
• 31:44
  the weight of the Jeep
• 31:46
  down on it and everything,
• 31:47
  you want to check your measurements.
• 31:48
  Oh, yeah, absolutely.
• 31:49
  Yeah.
• 31:49
  You don't want to just throw
• 31:50
  it on there and say that's it.
• 31:52
  You need to verify what you
• 31:54
  think is going to be true.
• 31:57
  Yeah, it'll be very obvious if it's wrong
• 31:59
  anyway, but you can verify it.
• 32:01
  See how close you are.
• 32:02
  Anyway, yeah, that's what you do for
• 32:05
  standard single U-joints.
• 32:08
  And you can put a pretty
• 32:10
  fair angle on that drive shaft.
• 32:12
  I've run five inches of lift just on the
• 32:15
  standard drive line with a stock XJ main
• 32:19
  leaf and everything.
• 32:20
  And I didn't have any
• 32:22
  trouble, so it can be done.
• 32:23
  But one thing that happens is that
• 32:26
  there's a difference in those angles, the
• 32:29
  way that they're set up between the 96
• 32:33
  and up Jeeps and the earlier Jeeps.
• 32:36
  And I don't know what the difference is,
• 32:38
  but it's enough that a lift kit with the
• 32:40
  earlier Jeeps works real good.
• 32:42
  You put it on the later ones after the
• 32:45
  body style changed and everybody gets
• 32:48
  drive line vibrations.
• 32:49
  So you have to go to a Slope-Yelky
• 32:52
  Eliminator with three inches
• 32:53
  of lift and all that stuff.
• 32:54
  No, you don't.
• 32:55
  Set your drive line up properly.
• 32:57
  Well, I think I need to do some work on
• 32:59
  mine that's going to require me to take
• 33:00
  the drive shaft out.
• 33:01
  So when I have it out, I'll go through
• 33:04
  this and make some notes and report on
• 33:07
  the website how my 98
• 33:10
  is with a 4.5 inch lift.
• 33:13
  You know, the
• 33:14
  difference between the angles.
• 33:15
  One of the things I want to do is I want
• 33:17
  to get another guy out here
• 33:18
  and take some better pictures.
• 33:19
  We're going to be setting his drive line
• 33:21
  up because we're going
• 33:21
  to be lifting his XJ up.
• 33:23
  So we'll go through the whole thing with
• 33:24
  his and he can help me take pictures.
• 33:27
  You know, above Timberline Rich, he's
• 33:30
  real good at doing technical write-ups.
• 33:32
  He used to do it for a living.
• 33:33
  And so he does a great job with that
• 33:35
  stuff and we'll get together and make
• 33:38
  something decent to stick
• 33:41
  in the technical section.
• 33:42
  Excellent.
• 33:43
  But anyway, OK, that's a procedure now
• 33:46
  for the Single-U joint stock drive line.
• 33:49
  Now, if you go to a slip-yoke eliminator,
• 33:53
  you have a different procedure than you
• 33:54
  do with the Single-U joint.
• 33:57
  So why don't we go to the picture of the
• 34:00
  geometry of the
• 34:01
  slip-yoke eliminator drive line?
• 34:04
  Would that be proper
• 34:05
  geometry for CV drive shaft?
• 34:07
  Yeah, CV drive shaft.
• 34:09
  OK, I got it up.
• 34:10
  And Steve's just waiting for the image to
• 34:11
  show up on his screen.
• 34:13
  I'm reading some of the posts here.
• 34:15
  You know, everybody wants me to set up
• 34:18
  their Dana 60 and all that.
• 34:19
  Anyway.
• 34:21
  I know who that is.
• 34:23
  Now, that was XJ4V.
• 34:27
  Anyway, yeah.
• 34:28
  You notice that the engine is level again
• 34:30
  here, but now the differential is tipped
• 34:33
  up and you have a straight line that goes
• 34:37
  through the shaft and
• 34:39
  through the pinion tube.
• 34:40
  They're both the same angle.
• 34:41
  So what you want to do with this
• 34:44
  situation, instead of matching the angle
• 34:46
  of the pinion to the angle of the
• 34:48
  transfer case, you want to match the
• 34:51
  pinion angle to the angle of
• 34:53
  the rear of the drive line.
• 34:55
  So that's a straight line.
• 34:56
  OK, let's go to the next image now.
• 34:59
  So now we don't have to
• 35:00
  measure the transfer case.
• 35:01
  We don't care what that is.
• 35:02
  That's the whole point
• 35:03
  of a slip-yoke eliminator.
• 35:04
  Doesn't matter what angle that is or
• 35:06
  whether you've got a
• 35:07
  transfer case drop or not.
• 35:08
  And actually, if you're running one of
• 35:10
  these, you don't want to
• 35:11
  run a transfer case drop.
• 35:12
  You want to tuck that
• 35:12
  transfer case up as high as you can.
• 35:15
  It looks like you've got some sort of
• 35:17
  straight edge in this picture.
• 35:19
  Is that the correct picture?
• 35:21
  Yeah, that's what I've got there.
• 35:22
  I've got a regular old common
• 35:25
  square from the hardware store.
• 35:27
  And all I did was I
• 35:29
  couldn't find any string.
• 35:30
  We seem to be stringless around here.
• 35:32
  So I got a piece of red copper wire and
• 35:35
  attached it to the
• 35:36
  universal joint on the drive shaft
• 35:38
  and stretched it out and put the face of
• 35:41
  this square up on the pinion face there.
• 35:45
  Still have my rear
• 35:46
  drive line disconnected.
• 35:47
  So that's the same.
• 35:48
  That part of it's the same.
• 35:49
  And I just tipped the pinion up until the
• 35:52
  straight edge is roughly
• 35:53
  parallel with that wire.
• 35:55
  And that's all you have to do except that
• 35:58
  you need to take your
• 36:00
  starting and your finished
• 36:02
  joint there.
• 36:03
  And to tip that up, all I do is put a
• 36:06
  hydraulic jack under the
• 36:08
  front of the differential and
• 36:10
  I just jack it up until it looks right
• 36:13
  with the U-wolks loose.
• 36:14
  So all you have to do is pretty simple.
• 36:16
  Okay, so tell me where the wire, what's
• 36:19
  the wire attached to on the front?
• 36:21
  The reversal joint on the
• 36:23
  back of the transfer case.
• 36:24
  Okay, you said drive shaft earlier and I
• 36:26
  was thinking the drive shaft
• 36:27
  isn't here and I was confused.
• 36:28
  I thought maybe it was
• 36:29
  hanging down and we couldn't see it.
• 36:31
  So you've attached?
• 36:32
  It is hanging down, you can't see it.
• 36:34
  Okay, but you're attaching to the
• 36:36
  universal joint that is the one closest
• 36:39
  to the transfer case.
• 36:41
  That's correct.
• 36:41
  Yeah, yeah.
• 36:42
  But my CV joint is still on the back of
• 36:45
  the transfer case and so I just tied the
• 36:47
  wire to the universal joint
• 36:49
  and stretched it out there.
• 36:51
  And so you take your straight edge and
• 36:55
  look at it and jack the
• 36:57
  front up a little bit.
• 36:58
  And if you want to do it that way and
• 37:01
  just keep doing it until they're roughly
• 37:02
  parallel and that's where you stop.
• 37:04
  Take your measurement and again, you
• 37:06
  subtract the two values.
• 37:08
  Let's say you started with five degrees
• 37:10
  and now you ended up with 10 degrees.
• 37:15
  That means you need to go get
• 37:16
  yourself a four degree shim.
• 37:18
  Okay, I'm a little dense.
• 37:19
  I don't, where's your
• 37:20
  measurement coming from?
• 37:21
  Because you don't have the...
• 37:23
  The face of the pinion to start with,
• 37:25
  just with the weight on the axle.
• 37:28
  So it's where it's going to be.
• 37:30
  Okay, you've disconnected your driveline.
• 37:32
  You put your angle finder on the face
• 37:34
  just like we did before and you take the
• 37:37
  first measurement and it'll be about five
• 37:39
  degrees on a stock rig.
• 37:40
  And then you now that you want to have a
• 37:44
  straight shot from the pinion up to the
• 37:48
  transfer case there, you just keep
• 37:50
  jacking that pinion up until
• 37:53
  this straight edge here is parallel with
• 37:55
  that wire or string
• 37:56
  that you've tied there.
• 37:58
  Or if you want to do it a little faster
• 38:01
  and easier, if you feel comfortable doing
• 38:02
  it, you can just eyeball it.
• 38:04
  You can tell whether it's a straight shot
• 38:05
  or not within a degree or so.
• 38:07
  Sure.
• 38:07
  But when you say jack it up, you're
• 38:09
  talking about rotating the axle, the
• 38:11
  pumpkin, you're
• 38:12
  rotating it to match the angle.
• 38:15
  Yeah, just jack the pinion up the front
• 38:17
  of the differential and it'll start
• 38:19
  tipping up and you'll see it.
• 38:22
  You know, when I set my own up, I didn't
• 38:24
  use this square method.
• 38:26
  I robbed that off a pirate.
• 38:28
  I thought, good idea.
• 38:29
  I happened to see it yesterday.
• 38:31
  So I thought I would throw it in here,
• 38:33
  but you can just eyeball it.
• 38:34
  So whenever you rotate the axle, the
• 38:37
  U-bolts have been loosened or removed.
• 38:41
  Loosen the connection to the stones.
• 38:42
  Well, I don't remove
• 38:43
  them, I just loosen them up.
• 38:44
  Right.
• 38:44
  That way the vehicle can't fall.
• 38:46
  Right.
• 38:46
  Because to me, when you said jack it up,
• 38:48
  I'm thinking you're actually lifting the
• 38:49
  axle and that was where
• 38:51
  I was getting confused.
• 38:52
  So you loosen the U-bolts holding the
• 38:56
  axle to the leaf springs
• 38:57
  so that you can rotate it.
• 38:59
  And then when you jack, the jacking up of
• 39:01
  the axle has to do with rotating the
• 39:03
  pumpkin up so that
• 39:05
  you can match the angle.
• 39:05
  Or I guess down, but probably it's going
• 39:07
  to be up so you can get the same angle.
• 39:11
  And then once you've got it eyeballed or
• 39:14
  measured, now you do the same subtraction
• 39:16
  and now you know what shim size you need
• 39:18
  to get to go in between
• 39:20
  there to do the straight shot.
• 39:21
  The fat part goes to
• 39:22
  the front, always on this.
• 39:24
  Right.
• 39:24
  And then you bolt it all up, bolt your
• 39:27
  drive shaft in and as long as it's within
• 39:30
  two or three degrees,
• 39:31
  it's not going to vibrate.
• 39:32
  Gotcha.
• 39:33
  Now I have found several vehicles when my
• 39:36
  son and I were
• 39:37
  looking for a Jeep for him.
• 39:39
  You know, we got on Craig's list and we
• 39:41
  went looking at various Jeeps and we
• 39:43
  looked at two Jeeps that were lifted and
• 39:47
  both of them had slip yoke eliminators or
• 39:51
  you know, some kind of CV set up and
• 39:53
  neither one of them
• 39:54
  had tipped the pinion up.
• 39:55
  So the drive shafts just vibrated like
• 39:58
  crazy at about 50 miles an hour, you
• 40:01
  know, and he was a
• 40:01
  little concerned about that.
• 40:02
  I said, don't worry about it, son.
• 40:04
  We can fix this in about 10 minutes.
• 40:06
  But we didn't end up
• 40:07
  getting either one of those.
• 40:08
  But it's very common to put one of those
• 40:12
  in and get the pinion angle right.
• 40:14
  And if you don't get it
• 40:15
  right, it will vibrate.
• 40:17
  It will vibrate worse than if you had
• 40:18
  kept your stock driveline.
• 40:20
  Yeah, it makes sense.
• 40:22
  Okie dokie, you've got a
• 40:22
  few other pictures here.
• 40:23
  Is that another another direction you
• 40:26
  want to go or something you want to add?
• 40:28
  Okay, I'm I'm ready
• 40:29
  to entertain questions.
• 40:31
  Okay.
• 40:32
  So guys, do you have any questions for
• 40:34
  Steve 4.3 LXJ on how to set
• 40:37
  up the drive angle on your XJ?
• 40:39
  Looks like there's
• 40:40
  conversations going on.
• 40:42
  Let's see.
• 40:43
  Scott XJ4IV says, Oh, me, me, me.
• 40:46
  Yeah, he's asking
• 40:48
  about a 1310 yoke for a 16.
• 40:50
  No, I don't think they do.
• 40:51
  So you guys ask away.
• 40:53
  You don't have to you
• 40:54
  don't have to wait to ask.
• 40:55
  You got questions.
• 40:55
  Ask him.
• 40:56
  I'll just say while we're waiting for a
• 40:58
  question that Steve is a
• 41:01
  moderator and one of our
• 41:02
  technical experts on XJtalk.com.
• 41:06
  And of course, if you've read the new
• 41:09
  disclaimer, XJtalk.com information is for
• 41:12
  entertainment purposes only.
• 41:13
  You take the full responsibility for any
• 41:15
  modifications that you
• 41:16
  make to your Jeep, not us.
• 41:19
  Weldman says, What about offset U-joint
• 41:21
  for Scott's problem?
• 41:23
  Offset U-joints?
• 41:26
  What's Scott's problem?
• 41:28
  I think I guess this is in relation to
• 41:32
  they make a 13 yoke for the 60.
• 41:35
  Oh, the 13.
• 41:36
  Yeah, there is an offset U-joint, but
• 41:38
  they're as far as I know,
• 41:39
  they're only for front axles.
• 41:42
  Let's see.
• 41:44
  Detour says, I have nothing.
• 41:46
  Not even smart, but
• 41:49
  that's pretty unusual when detour says I
• 41:51
  have anything to talk about.
• 41:53
  What I would do if I was XJ4IV, what I
• 41:58
  would do is have my drives
• 42:00
  take my stock drive shaft
• 42:01
  down and just have a different end put on
• 42:04
  it, a 1350 or whatever
• 42:06
  it is and that he has,
• 42:08
  you can get a 1330 if you want, if you
• 42:09
  don't want to go so big.
• 42:11
  So Scott says in the chat room, I'm
• 42:13
  trying to that's XJ4IV.
• 42:15
  I'm trying to avoid buying
• 42:17
  new drive shafts right now.
• 42:18
  So I'm saying, yes, Steve is saying that
• 42:23
  take the drive shaft
• 42:24
  down and have a different
• 42:24
  input on it so you can use the same drive
• 42:27
  shaft and still have it made up with the
• 42:29
  Dana 60 yoke.
• 42:30
  Yes, a lot cheaper than
• 42:32
  buying a whole new shaft.
• 42:33
  Let's see, big Jim, I want to know why I
• 42:35
  have no vibes when I set
• 42:36
  my drive line angles like
• 42:38
  you would for a CV drive shaft when I
• 42:41
  have no CV drive shaft.
• 42:44
  I don't know.
• 42:45
  No CV.
• 42:46
  I'll start making some measurements.
• 42:48
  You may just be within
• 42:49
  that five degree window.
• 42:50
  Yeah, Jim, why don't you check the angle
• 42:52
  finder and see what the angles are.
• 42:55
  That might answer our question.
• 42:57
  I mean, if you're within, what is it,
• 42:59
  Steve, less than six
• 43:00
  degrees you need to be to not
• 43:01
  have vibrations?
• 43:03
  Yeah, less than six,
• 43:04
  preferably less than five.
• 43:05
  And Scott, XJ4IV says, would that be a
• 43:09
  weak point having the
• 43:10
  drive shafts stay stock size?
• 43:13
  I guess that would be
• 43:14
  putting the new end on it.
• 43:16
  No, it's not going to make it
• 43:18
  any weaker than it already is.
• 43:20
  I would think that if you have Dana 60s
• 43:22
  and you use the standard
• 43:24
  drive shafts, your weak
• 43:25
  point is going to be probably the
• 43:27
  transfer case at that point.
• 43:29
  Yeah, probably so.
• 43:30
  Is running a 231 a good idea
• 43:33
  on a Dana 60 using two Dana 60s?
• 43:36
  It's done all the time?
• 43:37
  Okay.
• 43:38
  Yeah, it's not a big deal to run a 231.
• 43:41
  I mean, it's not like running a 241 OR or
• 43:45
  anything like that,
• 43:46
  but it's not that big a
• 43:47
  deal.
• 43:47
  A lot of people do it.
• 43:48
  That's amazing.
• 43:50
  I would, the 231 and the 242, both, you
• 43:54
  know, with the chain
• 43:55
  drive and it just doesn't look
• 43:57
  like it could handle that much hump.
• 43:59
  But I guess it's not that way.
• 44:02
  It's not the differential, it's the tires
• 44:04
  and lockers and the
• 44:07
  kind of terrain you have.
• 44:09
  Right.
• 44:09
  How much torque you're putting on it?
• 44:11
  Right.
• 44:12
  That's the deciding factor.
• 44:14
  You're going to put 38 inch tires on
• 44:16
  lockers and hit the rocks.
• 44:18
  That 231 may not last all that long.
• 44:20
  You were going to go with 30s on 30 inch
• 44:23
  tires on those Dana
• 44:24
  60s, weren't you Scott?
• 44:25
  I think he was going
• 44:26
  for the low rider look.
• 44:29
  30s would be definitely a low rider.
• 44:32
  That would be a pumpkin dragger.
• 44:35
  Yeah, we could go off crawling with that.
• 44:40
  Yeah, 38.
• 44:41
  Oh, 38 crawler TAs.
• 44:43
  Right.
• 44:43
  Those are pretty.
• 44:44
  And I don't think you would have lockers
• 44:46
  at first, would you Scott?
• 44:48
  Yeah.
• 44:49
  Very, very expensive.
• 44:50
  That's okay.
• 44:51
  You'll have a house that you
• 44:52
  can sell to pay for all this.
• 44:53
  I said he's going to
• 44:54
  have lockers right away.
• 44:55
  Well, you know, as long as he stays out
• 44:57
  of the rocks, you guys are
• 44:58
  mainly mud down there anyway.
• 45:01
  He doesn't like the mud.
• 45:02
  He doesn't like mud.
• 45:03
  He doesn't like mud.
• 45:04
  He hates mud.
• 45:07
  Yeah.
• 45:07
  Okay.
• 45:08
  513 gears and lock.
• 45:10
  He's a little bit rock and
• 45:11
  roll and I'm a little bit country.
• 45:13
  I'm sorry.
• 45:14
  I misread that.
• 45:14
  He says I'm a rocker.
• 45:15
  Yeah.
• 45:16
  Yeah.
• 45:17
  Yeah. And he's not referring to music.
• 45:21
  I agree, Jim.
• 45:22
  Well, if we don't have any other
• 45:23
  questions, we can move on to
• 45:25
  leaf spring design if you want.
• 45:26
  Okay.
• 45:27
  So I would assume that would be the
• 45:28
  picture with leaf spring.
• 45:29
  Yeah.
• 45:29
  There's only two
• 45:30
  pictures here at leaf springs.
• 45:31
  Yep.
• 45:32
  Okay.
• 45:32
  I've got the number eight up.
• 45:34
  It looks like somebody's been doing some
• 45:36
  cutting here and I'm
• 45:37
  not talking about an emo.
• 45:39
  So what are we looking at, Steve?
• 45:40
  Okay.
• 45:41
  First picture here is just a
• 45:44
  spring, a two-stage spring.
• 45:48
  This particular one is an exusu spring.
• 45:50
  But when I took it apart here, the thing
• 45:52
  that I wanted to draw your attention to
• 45:55
  is that you see that just sitting there,
• 45:57
  there's space between the leaves.
• 45:58
  There's a term for that.
• 46:00
  It's called snap.
• 46:01
  And a properly designed leaf spring is
• 46:05
  going to have a little bit of snap, at
• 46:07
  least an eighth of an
• 46:08
  inch between leaves.
• 46:09
  So when you're making a back pack up, you
• 46:12
  want to make sure that
• 46:13
  the spring is like that.
• 46:15
  There's a little snap between each leaf.
• 46:19
  It's not the end of
• 46:20
  the world if you don't.
• 46:21
  But what that does is ensure that you
• 46:24
  have a nice, even rate on your spring.
• 46:27
  If you've got leaves in there that are
• 46:30
  different arch, so if you've got some
• 46:34
  that are high arched, you've got some in
• 46:35
  the middle that aren't, and then maybe a
• 46:38
  high arch underneath it, it's not going
• 46:41
  to have a nice, smooth spring rate.
• 46:43
  It's going to have kind
• 46:44
  of a funny spring rate.
• 46:46
  And in order for it to act like a stock
• 46:49
  spring would, like you're used to, it
• 46:51
  needs to have these characteristics.
• 46:53
  So when we make a back pack, now you're
• 46:57
  going to put these springs on up against
• 46:59
  a main leaf, an XJ main leaf.
• 47:01
  The XJ main leaf only has
• 47:02
  four inches of free arch.
• 47:04
  So it has a lot of
• 47:05
  distance there, which is okay.
• 47:07
  It'll still work like it's supposed to.
• 47:10
  And so the next question is, do you want
• 47:13
  to have a single stage
• 47:15
  spring or a two stage spring?
• 47:17
  Now single stage is
• 47:18
  what came on the Cherokee.
• 47:19
  That means that all the leaves have about
• 47:21
  the same arch and they're
• 47:25
  in four different lengths.
• 47:26
  And so a single stage spring, the stage
• 47:30
  refers to the spring rate.
• 47:32
  So it's got a constant
• 47:33
  spring rate when you push on it.
• 47:36
  And the single stage spring has the most
• 47:40
  flex that you can build into it, which
• 47:43
  may be what you want.
• 47:44
  This is the kind of a spring that's going
• 47:46
  to stuff up into the
• 47:47
  fender well very well.
• 47:49
  And in fact, on my own, I set mine up
• 47:53
  with a single stage
• 47:53
  spring with these leaves in,
• 47:55
  and I can stuff the tire all the way up
• 47:57
  into the fender well and hit the bump
• 47:59
  stop that I've extended a little bit.
• 48:01
  And so let's go to the next
• 48:04
  picture there if we can, Tony.
• 48:06
  Okay. Got it up.
• 48:07
  What's the difference between these two?
• 48:09
  This one looks like it's put together.
• 48:10
  Yeah. Well, this is actually the same
• 48:12
  spring, but you notice there's a, I
• 48:14
  haven't got the picture yet, but there's
• 48:15
  a flat leaf on the bottom.
• 48:17
  Right.
• 48:18
  Okay. This is called a two stage spring.
• 48:20
  Oh, I think I'm understanding now.
• 48:23
  Okay.
• 48:24
  What that means is, is that you've got a
• 48:27
  single stage on the top there, those top
• 48:29
  leaves, and as you press them down,
• 48:32
  they'll come to the point where they hit
• 48:35
  that bottom leaf there.
• 48:37
  And it's pretty thick and heavy.
• 48:38
  And this type of spring is the type that
• 48:42
  you get on a pickup or a, or a, they,
• 48:46
  they're real common on S10s.
• 48:47
  You get an S10
• 48:48
  spring, they look like this.
• 48:50
  And what they will do is once that those
• 48:55
  leaf springs go flat on that, that tough
• 48:58
  bottom leaf there, they
• 48:59
  don't move much further.
• 49:00
  So if you're making a pack, the point
• 49:03
  here is that if you don't want your tire
• 49:07
  to stuff way up into
• 49:08
  the fender well, this is the kind of
• 49:10
  spring that you would use because it's
• 49:12
  not going to bend over backwards on you.
• 49:15
  Right.
• 49:15
  I see somebody saying overload.
• 49:17
  That's really not an overload spring, but
• 49:19
  everybody calls it one.
• 49:21
  See Weldman and XJ4IV
• 49:24
  have both used that word.
• 49:26
  It's really the common, the proper term
• 49:28
  is the second stage, but a real overload
• 49:32
  spring is a spring that goes on the top.
• 49:35
  Well, that's interesting.
• 49:36
  So anyway, those, we
• 49:38
  only put those on pickups.
• 49:39
  We don't put those on XJs.
• 49:41
  So I would think in this configuration,
• 49:43
  this would be, the only reason you'd want
• 49:45
  to do this is if you didn't want to
• 49:46
  modify the bump stops on your XJ.
• 49:49
  That if you're off-roading your XJ, the
• 49:52
  single stage spring only and proper,
• 49:57
  properly lengthened bump stops would be
• 49:59
  the way you'd want to go.
• 50:00
  Yeah.
• 50:00
  Or if you're carrying a lot of gear all
• 50:02
  the time, there's a lot of fellows that
• 50:05
  they've got four or 500 pounds of tools
• 50:07
  in the back of their spare
• 50:09
  parts in the back of their XJ.
• 50:10
  So this would be a good design for that
• 50:13
  kind of a situation.
• 50:15
  Both springs ride well.
• 50:17
  This is a way, this particular design
• 50:20
  with a two-stage spring is the way to
• 50:22
  have a spring that'll carry a pretty good
• 50:25
  load, yet still have a
• 50:27
  decent ride on the highway.
• 50:29
  And so they've used that design for years
• 50:32
  on all kinds of vehicles.
• 50:34
  Gotcha.
• 50:35
  So, but anyway, that's the difference.
• 50:37
  And so before you set up your pack, you
• 50:40
  need to answer the questions.
• 50:42
  What do I want my spring to do?
• 50:43
  What kind of load do I want it to carry
• 50:45
  and how much do I want it to flex?
• 50:47
  And that'll determine whether you use a
• 50:49
  single stage or a two-stage spring.
• 50:51
  What are you using on yours?
• 50:53
  But I'm using a single stage on mine.
• 50:55
  Okay.
• 50:56
  That's what I thought you said, but I
• 50:57
  just want to make sure.
• 50:58
  This two-stage spring that you took a
• 51:01
  picture of, what was, was that just
• 51:03
  something you took a picture of for
• 51:04
  demonstration purposes or are you using
• 51:06
  this on a different vehicle?
• 51:08
  Yeah.
• 51:09
  If you, if you check my thread, the
• 51:11
  perfect pack, maybe, I have pictures of
• 51:15
  it when I was setting it up.
• 51:17
  Okay.
• 51:17
  And I still have the same setup.
• 51:19
  It's, it's a four leaf spring.
• 51:21
  I use the XJ main leaf.
• 51:24
  I used the number two and number three
• 51:26
  leaf out of this Isuzu spring.
• 51:28
  And then I took the main leaf and I cut
• 51:29
  it down to 22 inches, 11 inches on the
• 51:33
  side, I believe, for the bottom leaf.
• 51:35
  Okay.
• 51:36
  And it rides nice.
• 51:38
  It, it has a similar spring rate to the
• 51:41
  stock spring, only it
• 51:42
  has a six inch lift on it.
• 51:45
  Okay.
• 51:45
  Well, guys, we're running a little bit
• 51:46
  over an hour tonight.
• 51:48
  Just, just a few minutes and we'll be,
• 51:51
  we'll be wrapping this up pretty soon.
• 51:53
  Um, did anybody have any questions for
• 51:55
  the, the, the leaf spring, different
• 51:57
  leaf, leaf spring setups?
• 51:59
  It looks like it's pretty clear to me.
• 52:01
  Yeah.
• 52:01
  Uh, Weldman has an interesting question.
• 52:04
  He's got an S10 and he did not use the
• 52:07
  overload or the bottom flat leaf.
• 52:09
  Uh, he probably put, uh, uh, the main
• 52:13
  leaf underneath his, uh, uh, under hit,
• 52:17
  you know, cut the eyes off and put it
• 52:19
  under his main leaf.
• 52:20
  If he takes that out, it'll soften it up.
• 52:22
  It'll also lower it a little bit.
• 52:24
  So I noticed that I, I used all the
• 52:26
  leaves on an S10 spring.
• 52:28
  It was pretty stiff.
• 52:29
  Okay.
• 52:29
  Anybody else questions for Steve?
• 52:31
  Does he got three and a
• 52:32
  half inches out of the S10?
• 52:34
  That's typical for an S10 pack.
• 52:38
  You have too much knowledge about two
• 52:39
  different, two mini cars, Steve.
• 52:43
  Uh, actually for IV said he's got four
• 52:46
  and a half off the Dakota Springs.
• 52:47
  That's another one that you could use.
• 52:49
  That's typical.
• 52:50
  Another one that would work nice for a
• 52:52
  good setup is a Comanche Springs.
• 52:55
  They have quite a bit of arch in them.
• 52:56
  Uh, they would be fun to play with.
• 52:58
  I haven't played with any of those, but,
• 52:59
  uh, uh, maybe someday I will.
• 53:02
  Are those different because, um, the
• 53:04
  nature of the Comanche is a pickup and
• 53:06
  they wanted to have the
• 53:08
  Comanche springs go under the axle
• 53:10
  instead of over the top.
• 53:12
  So, uh, they have to have another five or
• 53:16
  so inches of arch in them
• 53:17
  just to sit in the same spot.
• 53:19
  Ah, okay.
• 53:20
  So, uh, they have
• 53:21
  that extra arch in them.
• 53:23
  Weldman says, what about
• 53:24
  Ranger Springs long box?
• 53:26
  Uh, I've looked at Ranger Springs.
• 53:28
  I wasn't real impressed
• 53:30
  with the Ranger Springs.
• 53:31
  Um, if, if you're going to use that
• 53:34
  particular spring, I, I used the AsooZoo
• 53:37
  before I used the
• 53:38
  Ranger spring personally.
• 53:39
  Okay, guys.
• 53:40
  Any other questions for Steve?
• 53:42
  Yeah.
• 53:42
  You got any questions guys?
• 53:44
  Oh, are there, is there a difference?
• 53:46
  Manufacturers were looking at to decide
• 53:49
  between spring over and spring under.
• 53:51
  Um, that's a good question.
• 53:53
  Um, if you, if you want something really
• 53:55
  tough and you know, you want to use a
• 53:59
  spring under, um, it doesn't put as much,
• 54:02
  uh, torsion on the,
• 54:05
  uh, uh, spring itself.
• 54:06
  If you hit a bump or something like that,
• 54:07
  it doesn't, uh, doesn't twist as much.
• 54:10
  So you don't, uh, uh, get
• 54:12
  any axle wrap out of it.
• 54:14
  So that, that's one of the, the, the
• 54:16
  things that they do is they'll put the
• 54:17
  spring under instead of over and cheaps
• 54:19
  for years and years and
• 54:20
  years were always spring under.
• 54:22
  Oh, one of the common things that I've
• 54:23
  heard, uh, you do not want to use blocks
• 54:26
  to lift, um, the rear end of a Jeep
• 54:30
  because actually that can occur since the
• 54:33
  leaf springs are not that, um, not that
• 54:36
  thick, not that, um, they can't handle
• 54:38
  the, the, the wrapping.
• 54:40
  If you have a lift it with a block,
• 54:42
  that's what I've heard.
• 54:44
  Yeah.
• 54:44
  Um, that's pretty much the
• 54:46
  case with a stock spring.
• 54:47
  Our stock XJ Springs are kind of wimpy
• 54:51
  and, uh, you really don't want to use,
• 54:55
  uh, too much of a block.
• 54:57
  You can use an inch
• 54:58
  block, an inch thick block.
• 55:00
  That's not going to hurt anything, but
• 55:01
  you start going two inches on our stock
• 55:03
  springs and, and yeah, you can, you know,
• 55:06
  it's possible to, uh, pull a drive shaft.
• 55:09
  It was flipped yelts out of the transfer
• 55:10
  case and stuff like that.
• 55:11
  Yeah.
• 55:12
  And I would assume that would be like
• 55:13
  what you would get with wheel hop and the
• 55:15
  whole reason that, um, yeah, I had a low
• 55:19
  range wheel hop with, you
• 55:21
  know, could do that kind of thing.
• 55:23
  I mean, that would be the symptom I would
• 55:25
  assume would be like a wheel hop when,
• 55:28
  when you, if you felt the wrap, it would
• 55:29
  be like a wheel hop situation.
• 55:31
  Yeah.
• 55:31
  Or if you, uh, stuck it in low range and
• 55:34
  in reverse and, uh, dump clutch and, you
• 55:37
  know, that kind of thing.
• 55:38
  Gotcha.
• 55:39
  You could enough to
• 55:40
  maybe pull a drive shaft out.
• 55:43
  Okay.
• 55:43
  Doki is okay.
• 55:46
  Uh, just don't go to two.
• 55:48
  Right.
• 55:49
  Excellent.
• 55:50
  Yeah.
• 55:50
  To me, a one inch block is, is something
• 55:52
  you do for a tune up.
• 55:53
  You know, that's, that's, uh, when you're
• 55:55
  using a bastard pack and you put your
• 55:56
  front coils on and your Jeep doesn't
• 55:59
  quite sit high enough and back.
• 56:01
  Uh, you can stick the
• 56:03
  one inch block in there.
• 56:04
  The best way to do that is to, uh, make
• 56:07
  some two and a half inch by half inch bar
• 56:10
  stock and cut them the same length as
• 56:12
  the, uh, spring pads on the axle and
• 56:15
  drill a hole in the center of them.
• 56:17
  So that your center
• 56:17
  bolt goes through them too.
• 56:19
  So you just don't have a
• 56:20
  block flopping around there.
• 56:22
  Excellent.
• 56:23
  Well, guys, we're going
• 56:24
  to wrap it up tonight.
• 56:25
  Steve, thank you very much.
• 56:26
  I'm going to take you offline here and
• 56:28
  I'll get back with you here
• 56:29
  just as soon as the show's over.
• 56:34
  Okay, guys, well, that
• 56:36
  was, uh, that's our hour show.
• 56:38
  I hope you enjoyed it.
• 56:39
  Uh, we went a little over, but, uh, some
• 56:41
  great information from Steve.
• 56:42
  Uh, really appreciate Steve being here
• 56:44
  and going through all this stuff.
• 56:46
  Um, I know I personally understand how to
• 56:48
  set the drive angle a lot better.
• 56:50
  I may still have to think about it while
• 56:51
  I'm doing it, but, uh, now it
• 56:53
  just makes a lot more sense.
• 56:55
  Um, I think that it was the, the
• 56:56
  difference between the, the, the double,
• 56:59
  you know, with the having the SYE or not
• 57:02
  having the SYE and why
• 57:04
  is this one straight?
• 57:06
  Why is this one angled?
• 57:07
  It just doesn't look like it matches up
• 57:09
  with common, common sense.
• 57:12
  At least that's the way it was from me.
• 57:14
  So, uh, want to remind you guys that we
• 57:17
  have a voicemail
• 57:18
  number that you can call in.
• 57:19
  And, uh, if you have questions or
• 57:21
  comments, uh, also doing show promos, if
• 57:25
  you'll call into 530-675-4102, uh, and
• 57:30
  leave a message, um, just, uh, might want
• 57:33
  to start off with, uh, who you are and
• 57:35
  where you're located and then your
• 57:37
  comment or question.
• 57:38
  Again, the number's 530-675-4102.
• 57:44
  And don't forget about Ironman 4x4.
• 57:46
  Um, some great front end beefy products.
• 57:50
  And, uh, many of you guys
• 57:51
  know Andy from the website.
• 57:53
  Uh, anybody listening, if you're looking
• 57:54
  for some great products, not only for the
• 57:57
  XJ, but also too for,
• 57:59
  uh, various other Jeeps.
• 58:00
  Just go to the site, uh,
• 58:02
  Ironman4x4fab.com and check it out.
• 58:07
  Thanks again, guys.
• 58:08
  Have a very good night.
• 58:09
  Next week we'll have Wayne Cantab 27 and
• 58:13
  he'll be here for, uh, questions after
• 58:16
  his prerecorded interview.
• 58:18
  Thanks and have a very good night.
• 58:50
  This is Big Jim 350 and I
• 58:53
  f***ing love XJTalk.com.