Latest / Pod Save America / It's One Ballroom, Donald, How Much Could It Cost?

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It's One Ballroom, Donald, How Much Could It Cost? · Pod Save America

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  Speaker 1: like Simply Safe. Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
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  Speaker 3: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
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  Speaker 1: On today's show, the J.D. versus Marco primary is heating up,
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  Speaker 1: of your money on Donald Trump's ballroom. Trump's revenge on
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  Speaker 1: slash friends.
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  Speaker 3: Here's the thing. We're going to be together and we're
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: going to be drinking. We're either going to be celebrating
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  Speaker 3: or drowning our sorrows, but we will be doing it together.
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: You can still have a party if it's a, you know,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's still a party. I just made a
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: happy party somewhere. It's going to be a drunk party.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: There's karma out there, and I don't want to anchor karma.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 3:28
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Well, there you go.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: We are recording this on Thursday afternoon, and as of
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: right now, the U.S. and Iran are still discussing a
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: one-page memo that would reopen the Strait of Hormuz, pause
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: the war that's already supposed to be paused but really
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: isn't for another 30 days, during which time the two
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: countries would try to reach a permanent deal where Iran
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: gets billions of dollars in unfrozen assets if they pinky
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: promise not to build a nuclear weapon and commit to
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: an inspection regime. That sounds a lot like Obama's Iran
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: deal that Donald Trump pulled out of. Um, the background
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: music for these negotiations, uh, is Iranian boats firing on
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: us Navy ships in the U S carrying out new
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: strikes on an Iranian oil port. Uh, it's, it's unclear.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: It's a little fog of war going on, but as
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: we're recording, there's sort of explosions everywhere. There's reports of
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: explosions in Tehran as well. So who the fuck knows
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: what's going on. Um, Trump officials say this doesn't count
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: as restarting the war, but they also might restart the war,
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: just like they also might restart Project Freedom, which is
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Trump's half-assed plan to guide traffic through the Strait, which
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: was canceled earlier in the week after an incredible one-day run.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: Not even a full day. They didn't make it 24 hours.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: I know, I was being generous.
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: It's like banker's hours.
• 4:44
  Speaker 5: Meanwhile.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: The CIA reportedly believes that Iran still has 70 percent
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: of its ballistic missiles, 75 percent of its missile launchers,
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: and can withstand the U.S. naval blockade for, quote, at
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: least three to four more months. That is according to
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: The Washington Post. What do you think, Dan? Is Trump
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: still holding all the cards?
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: It's hard to fathom a bigger clusterfuck than this. It's
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: just such a shit show. It was such a bad idea, obviously.
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: It's been so poorly executed since then. It's so chaotic
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: that at the same time that I was reading the
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: New York Times story today on the one-page memo, and
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: everyone's very specific that it's one page.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: 14 points on one page, I guess.
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: We don't even know.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Margins.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: You've got to put the margins over it. You've got
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: a 0.5 margin. Maybe you've got a 0.25.
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: What's the font size? Are we 14? We don't know.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: If we're fitting 14 points on a one-pager. a lot.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: I mean, but what are those 14 points? So it's
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: one page. I'm reading that. I get a news alert
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: on my phone that the United States has struck Iranian
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: oil ports. Like what is happening? And then we're firing
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: missiles back and forth. They've attacked U.S.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Ships.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: Apparently, we think at this point, the American ships had
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: to retreat because they were damaged. We think at this point,
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: but do not worry. The peace negotiations are still headed
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: down the path and are, and they're still circling around
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: this one page memo and a ceasefire could begin any minute,
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: or if, or I guess a peace deal could begin
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: any minute, which is what they've been saying for a
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: month now.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: So, uh, just as a thought exercise, I'm going to
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: be generous again here. Um, let's imagine that the negotiations
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: through the, the latest round of firing and attacks that, that,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: that dies down negotiations resume, they get a deal. And
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: then 30 days from now, they reach a more permanent deal.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: And it's the best deal possible for the United States.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: Which is the Obama deal, which is basically an approximation
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: of the Obama deal.
• 6:45
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: What that would do is basically you'd ship out all
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: the uranium, the enriched uranium from Iran. Some reports said
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: possibly to the United States. So you'd ship out all
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: the uranium. Now, They didn't have any uranium when Donald
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Trump came into office because of the Iran nuclear deal,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: but they did produce a lot more enriched uranium. They
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: did enrich a lot more uranium in the years between
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Trump pulling out of the Iran deal and Trump deciding
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: to attack them. But anyway, so you get rid of
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: all the uranium and then you have new limits on
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: uranium enrichment and the nuclear program. And some of the
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: hawks might argue like maybe they're a little more stringent,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: but the same same kind of inspections regime, maybe like
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: a little bit more enhanced, but again, it is the whole,
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: the whole deal is we're going to inspect it. There's
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: going to be spot inspections. The UN can go in
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: there anytime. So we're going to keep an eye on them,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: which again, that was the Obama deal. Um, and in exchange,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: we're going to unfreeze billions and billions of dollars of assets. Again,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: that was the Obama deal. And so that is the,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: that is the best, best, best case scenario in that scenario.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: What was, what, what did it cost us? Well, it
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: cost us 14 American lives, hundreds of now thousands of
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: lives in Iran, in Lebanon, across the Gulf. It cost
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: us God knows how much money, both in.
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: At least $ 25 billion, both.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: In the direct money we spent on the war and
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: the harm to the global economy and to the U.S.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: economy and higher energy prices. Um, it also, we also
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: spent like, we're talking about, um, Iran having 70% of
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: its ballistic missiles, 75, 75% of its missile launchers. Um,
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: what kind of weapons do we have? How, how much,
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: how many, how many weapons, how many missiles do we
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: launch now? Um, over this war for absolutely fucking nothing. Um,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: our global standing in the world, our allies trust in us. Um,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I could go on and on and on,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: but it doesn't seem like, It doesn't seem like we
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: would have gotten much from this best, best, best, best
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: case scenario.
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: And even under your best, best, best case scenario, which
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: was very generous of you and your generosity is appreciated
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: at the highest levels of the White House, I'm sure,
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: the likelihood that the Iranian people rise up against the
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: regime for a more pro-American democratic version of Iran is
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: is much less likely than it was before this because,
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: I don't know, we started blowing up their country and
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: bombing girls' schools, so that seems unlikely. And let's say we.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, we did kill an 86-year-old. We did, yes. And
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: a bunch of his top goons. And that is maybe.
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: I feel safer already.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Right, because clearly that has decapitated the regime and they
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: haven't been able to do anything since then. Oh, wait. Yes, yes.
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: And then, but even before we get to your... future
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: approximation of the Obama-Iran deal. Let's just say we agree
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: on the 14 points. We get that done and the
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: strait opens. Even if you open the strait today, the
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: United States government estimates it'll take six months to clear
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: it of mines. The impact on oil prices around the
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: world and gas prices in the United States will remain
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: for six months to a year at least. The economic
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: damage will not be undone. The tail effect of all
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: of this on food prices because of fertilizer on the
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: supply chain will continue for a long period of time.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: And so this is not like you solve this problem
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: because Trump is trying to solve this problem because the
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: midterms are coming. The political problems that come from the
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: damage to the economy are not going away anytime soon.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: And for the American people who are struggling, which is
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: the more important issue here, relief is not coming when
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: the 14.1 page memo is agreed to.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And then what do you think is going to
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: happen when if the memo is agreed to and Trump
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: announces that he should get the peace prize again and everything,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: and then gas prices continue to drift up? from now
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: until November. You think people are going to be, you
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: think that people are upset now, just wait till October
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: rolls around and the war has been in the rear
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: view mirror for a couple months. People are like, what
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: the fuck? Why am I still paying $ 5 gas, $ 4 gas?
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Speaking of which, oil futures have been on a real ride,
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: thanks to all the dueling scoops and siren emojis. But
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: gas prices, which are a little more stable, were at
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: a nationwide average of $ 4. 55 a gallon, 10 cents higher
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: than Monday. And the Trump White House is, of course,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: working overtime to make sure people know and understand that
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: they feel their pain.
• 11:25
  Speaker 5: Let's listen.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: Credit card spending is through the roof. They're spending more
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: on gasoline, but they're spending more on everything else, too.
• 11:32
  Speaker 7: We want to encourage all Americans to take a road trip,
• 11:34
  Speaker 7: whether you're going to go two hours or two days.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: I thought oil prices would go to $ 200, $ 250.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: It's at $ 100 now.
• 11:37
  Speaker 8: But even if it went to $ 200....
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: It would have been worth it.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: I understand. Just an incredible showing from all three of
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: those gentlemen. But I do have to say, Kevin Hassett, like, yeah, no,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: it's true. People are maxing out their credit cards because
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: of high gas prices. But in fairness, everything else is
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: fucking expensive, too. Like, do you think it's possible that
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Kevin Hassett is secretly working for the Democrats? Do we
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: have a plant in there?
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: We would never hire someone that stupid.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: Is this what Ken Martin has been spending all the
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: money on?
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: I think it is more likely that– I guess there's
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: two options when it comes to Hassett. One is he's
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: the dumbest economist alive. And the other one is that
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: earlier this year, he placed a massive bet on Kalshi
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: on Democrats taking the House because he's doing everything possible.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: Like he is just– It's just one rake after another.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: He just wants to be in as many– maybe he
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: has a bet with this young man about how many
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: Democratic campaign ads can he be in. Because every time
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: he goes on TV, he's trying to be in another one.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's like a bet with Scott Besson because every
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: time Besson opens his mouth, it's almost as bad. I
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: think Besson's in the lead right now.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: Besson gives– like Kevin Hasse gives off doofus vibes while
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: Besson gives off the vibes of someone who would use
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: his private equity fund to buy your house and evict you.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:01
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Besson gives off the vibe of someone who's like never
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: gone to a grocery store or gone to a gas
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: station and filled up his own tank of gas.
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, which is a terrible thing to say about
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: a soybean farmer, but.
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: There's a bigger issue here, I think, beyond just the
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: incompetence of these individual spokespeople is they are... Like, this
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: is the trap Trump has set for himself, which is
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: you cannot admit that things are bad because to admit
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: things are bad is to admit that Trump failed. And
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: you can never admit that Trump is fallible. And so
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: since you can't admit things are bad, you can't lay
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: out your plan to make them better. So instead, you
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: just have to walk around every single day and stick
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: your thumb in the eye of every swing voter and
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: seem just radically out of touch with reality. This is
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: why the affordability to all of that was doomed to fail,
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: because they are incapable of offering a message because they're
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: incapable of acknowledging the reality that American people feel every
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: single day.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: I would say that's all true, but they are doing
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: an extra special good job of poking the American people
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: in the eye on this. Because you think about the
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Biden administration. And we criticized them at the time when
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: they would go around being like, oh, people say they're hurting,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: but you're looking at gas prices in an expensive neighborhood.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: And actually, listen to the inflation rating. It's actually good.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: And all of their comments, while they weren't really effective
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: at making people believe something different than their eyes were
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: telling them, they were at least geared towards trying to
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: tell people that things were getting better.
• 14:33
  Speaker 8: And.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: That is being overly generous.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: I know. Again, I'm feeling very generous today.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: What is going on with you today?
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: But again, I can't imagine if Ron Klain or I
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: can't even remember who the economic... Jared Bernstein were out
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: there being like, yes, it's true. It's true. People are
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: spending a lot of money and maxing out their credit
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: cards on gas, but also everything's expensive. Yeah.
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: I mean, in fairness to the individual spokespeople... would do
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: a better job than Biden himself, who would be like
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: the lowest unemployment rate in history.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they did have that thing where they were like,
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: everyone's turkeys are five cents cheaper this Thanksgiving. Things are
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: getting better. It's just, you look, everyone, if you're ever
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: in the White House, if you're ever on a Democratic campaign,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: you ever get to the White House and the economy's
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: a little rocky, don't do that. Just don't do that.
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: If people are upset, people are going to be upset.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Just tell them you're going to fight harder. That's it.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: That's all you got to do. Uh, still not going
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: to help you necessarily, but it's not going to make
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: it worse. This is making it worse.
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: Stop digging.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: Stop digging. Exactly.
• 15:44
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  Speaker 2: But challenging.
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  Speaker 1: This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Life's a lot sometimes.
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• 18:28
  Speaker 1: So as this is happening, the two men most likely
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: to be the Republican nominee in 2028, we're out there
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: trying to explain the war, everything else. J.D. Vance was
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: in Iowa on Tuesday, ostensibly stumping for a vulnerable Republican
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: House member, but probably testing the waters for 28 to
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: see if there is anyone out there who likes him.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Let's listen. What is this?
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: What is Zach?
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: You're gonna have to help me out with her name here.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: I lost my page here. OK.
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: OK, there we go.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: Sarah Trone Garriott. There he is. I'm on the wrong
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: page here. Crushed it, sir.
• 19:05
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: Doing great.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: Shane Goldmarker from the New York times was at the
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: event and he noted in his story that a bunch
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: of people volunteered to him, um, that they actually really
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: like Rubio, uh, and not just fans sometimes over Vance,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: which is something that, um, our friend Sarah Longwell has
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: been noting in her focus groups as well. Um, Rubio, uh,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: happened to be taken over the white house daily briefing, uh,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: the very same day Vance was in Iowa. I know, um,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Ewan Lovett talked a bit about this on Pod Save
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: America Only Friends.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: How do you access that, John? What is that?
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: Tell me about it. Well, it says right here, you
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: can subscribe at cricket.com slash friends if you haven't already.
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: It's an extra special bi-weekly episode of Pod Save America.
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: So if you love Pod Save America, subscribe.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: Rotating cast of characters. It was you and Lovett this week.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: And I know you guys talked about this, but we're
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: going to talk about it again. Particularly because... With different takes.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Different takes. Well, there's one answer from Rubio you guys
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: didn't talk about that has gone viral from that press conference.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: And it was a response to a kind of question
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: that we all know and love. of the what gives
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: you hope variety. Here's what Marco Rubio said.
• 20:15
  Speaker 7: I mean, my hope for America is what it's always been.
• 20:17
  Speaker 7: I think it's the hope I hope we all share.
• 20:19
  Speaker 7: We want it to continue to be the place where
• 20:20
  Speaker 7: anyone from anywhere can achieve anything. where you're not limited
• 20:24
  Speaker 7: by the circumstances of your birth, by the color of
• 20:26
  Speaker 7: your skin, by your ethnicity, but frankly, it's a place
• 20:28
  Speaker 7: where you are able to overcome challenges and achieve your
• 20:31
  Speaker 7: full potential. I think we have a lot to learn
• 20:33
  Speaker 7: and be proud of in our history. It is one
• 20:35
  Speaker 7: of perpetual and continuous improvement, where each generation has done
• 20:39
  Speaker 7: its part to bring us closer to fulfilling the vision
• 20:41
  Speaker 7: that the founders of this country had upon its founding.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Not limited by the circumstances of your birth, unless you
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: were born to someone who is not a citizen of
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: the United States, in which case my administration is currently
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: trying to make sure that what it says in the
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: constitution that you're guaranteed to be a citizen is no
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: more other than that, other than that tiny exception.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: As far as your dreams can take you. Um, so
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: that went viral. All the MAGA folks are loving it. Uh,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: Rubio's official Twitter account released essentially a campaign video of
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: that answer with a, with a Superman type theme song
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: playing in the background. Um, what do you think of
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: the Rubio boomlet, Dan? What's, uh, What is the path
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: from here to Marco Rubio accepting the Republican nomination in
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: 2028 while J.D. Vance is just sad somewhere?
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: I would like to see J.D. Vance sad somewhere, but
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: I don't want to see Marco Rubio happy, so I'm
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: not really sure how this plays out. I think the
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: Rubio boomlet, as you have deemed it, has more to
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: do with J.D. Vance sucking than Marco Rubio shining. Rubio
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: does benefit from Comparison. He's in a cabinet.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: In the land of the blind, one-eyed man is king.
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: Yes, he is.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you're not supposed to say that for a
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: whole bunch of reasons anymore, but anyway, that's a whole thing.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: Well, I wonder who I'm doing this podcast with next week. Anywho.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: Don't ask if we're leaving it to everyone. We're leaving it.
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: To him. He's in a cabinet. Let me try to
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: do this in a way. He's in a cabinet with
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: Pete Hegseth, RFK Jr., Lyndon McMahon, Sean Duffy. He looks
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: serious compared to those unserious people in the land of
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: the unserious. The serious man is king. The mildly serious.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: Man is king. Sucks. That sucks.
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: Well, you know what? We got to make adjustments, Sean.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: And so I think he looks more serious than these people.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: And Love and I talked about his performance at the briefing.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: Compared to Pete Hexeth, he looks like a real person.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: I think there is one giant problem for Marco Rubio.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: Marco Rubio's greatest legislative accomplishment, perhaps his only legislative accomplishment,
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: was to work hand in hand with Barack Obama and
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: Harry Reid to pass a bill that to provide a
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: path to citizenship for millions upon millions of undocumented immigrants.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: You mean Marco Rubio, also fluent in Spanish, who spoke
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: in Spanish at that briefing, which to me was quite impressive.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: But let's check in with the 40% of Republican voters,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: 50% of Republican voters who still absolutely love Donald Trump
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: and want him to be more restrictionist on immigration and
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: more xenophobic.
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: I worked in the White House when Marco Rubio helped
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: Barack Obama pass that very important bill to give a
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: path to... The amnesty bill, as some called it at
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: the time. When he helped with the Obama amnesty bill,
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: I was there. Every single day in the office, I
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: was appreciative of Marco Rubio's help.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Today, to this day, I still... I just sent him
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: a thank you card again the other day.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: I am available... for speaking to, I will talk to
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: anyone about the very important role he played. I am available.
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: If you need me in Iowa, New Hampshire in the
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: coming years to come speak with and share the gratitude
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: I have with Marco Rubio for the work he did,
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: his sincere beliefs, his, the hard work, the way in
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: which he really was Barack Obama's whisperer on the Hill. Yeah,
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: I can, I'm happy to tell the stories.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: This is a man who believes that borders are just
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: lines on a map and that they don't really, they
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: don't really capture, um, like what it is to be
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: an American, which is, as he said there, it's a
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: place where, or anyone can come and become anything, which
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: is that, you know, Marco Rubio believes that that speech
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: could have been given by Barack Obama right there. And
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: I think, I think the reason is because they are,
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: when you get down to it, kindred spirits.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: Like what Rubio used to say, I'm told I wasn't
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: there was we're not Republicans.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: We're not Democrats.
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: We're all members of the unit party.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: So, you know, it is like, I think that all
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: of these, and, and, I have heard this now. I
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: know that Sarah has heard this in her focus groups.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: I've heard this from like people. I know people have encountered,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: but they are all the same people who are like,
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: you know, maybe Spencer Pratt should be mayor of Los
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: Angeles or people who were like, uh, let me see.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: They're either, they've got finance careers, they've got tech careers. They,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: they liked Elon Musk for a while. They thought that
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: was interesting. They were kind of looking at Ron DeSantis
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: in the last primary and thought maybe he had a
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: really good chance way too late. Um, And that group
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: of people is influential in terms of their megaphone and
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: their money, but they are not the MAGA base. They
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: are not the MAGA base. And I think that right now,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: I agree with you that it is more about J.D.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Vance's weakness than Marco Rubio's strength, because right now I
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: think Marco Rubio is a bit of a blank slate
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: for people. Well, not when I'm done with them. But
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: they are, I mean, and we do this, we've done
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: this with Democratic candidates all the time, But you sort
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: of project all your hopes and dreams of what you
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: want in a candidate on Marco Rubio. Because right now,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: when you see Marco Rubio, he's not fucking tripping and
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: falling on his face every five seconds like the rest
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: of the doofuses.
• 26:06
  Speaker 5: In the administration.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: And he does seem like a serious person.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: He ran an absolutely miserable 2016 campaign.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God.
• 26:15
  Speaker 5: Remember?
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: The voters met him.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: Chris Christie, like, murdered him on stage.
• 26:19
  Speaker 5: Yes, yes.
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: And as I pointed out to you the other day,
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: he ended his campaign... losing a dick joke war with
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: Donald Trump and then cried because he was so upset
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: that Donald Trump would have access to the world's most
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: dangerous weapons.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: Also, how does... I mean, I could very easily see
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: a scenario where it ends up Vance Rubio. In fact,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: I think that could be one of the likelier scenarios. Like,
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: I don't... Can you see a scenario where Rubio is like,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: you know what, I said I wasn't going to run
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: against J.D. Vance, but change my mind, I'm going to
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: do it. Um, I find that hard to believe. Maybe
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: there's a scenario where JD Vance is so thoroughly embarrassed
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: that he just sort of slinks away and decides not
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: to run at all.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: Although that seems, that seems impossible to imagine.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Unless Trump tells him, unless Trump tells him you're not it.
• 27:07
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, if Trump put his thumb on the scale
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: and was like, I want Rubio to, but even privately,
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: you know, yes, then I can see that happening. Um, yeah, it's, uh,
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: it'll be interesting.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: But I think if you're Rubio, you're like, I'm just
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: going to go along and take the adulation from the
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: people who think that I would be better than the
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: current situation we're in, and maybe he runs with J.D.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Vance and then thinks if J.D. Vance loses, then Rubio
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: is instantly the frontrunner for, what is it, 2032.
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he could consolidate every single one of
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: the Nikki Haley voters, and I think that'd be great
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: for him.
• 27:40
  Speaker 8: All five.
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: All five. Rubio's natural energy is cuck, Like I just,
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: it just, he's like, he is.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Like that is sitting in that big cuck chair. Yeah.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: I mean, also that's, you know what? When I go
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: to Iowa to tell these stories, I'm going to bring
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: that chair with me. I'm going to sit in that
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: chair to tell the stories of Marco Rubio's work.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: And read the immigration bill that he authored.
• 28:02
  Speaker 7: Yes.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: Just read it out loud. You know, the Obama library
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: is opening this month. I wonder if there's an annotated
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: copy in there.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: I hope there's an exhibit. I hope Marco Rubio features
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: prominently in the library. This was fun. All right. Trump, meanwhile,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: seems like he's trying to make it as difficult as
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: possible for either Vance or Rubio to win a presidential election,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: thanks to their association with him. Here he is discussing
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: his plans to change the color of the reflecting pool
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: on the National Mall, stage a UFC fight at the
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: White House for his birthday, and of course, build his ballroom.
• 28:38
  Speaker 6: I said, you know, I built all these swimming pools
• 28:40
  Speaker 6: and they're phenomenal. So I have some very good contractors.
• 28:44
  Speaker 6: I think that I'd like to recommend a color. It's
• 28:47
  Speaker 6: called American Flag Blue. I said, that's the color I want.
• 28:51
  Speaker 8: As you know, June 14th, we're having a big fight.
• 28:55
  Speaker 8: A lot of people haven't seen this yet.
• 28:58
  Speaker 5: This will be the greatest show on Earth is at night.
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: That's all lighting and cover.
• 29:04
  Speaker 8: I was in a position being a builder and having
• 29:07
  Speaker 8: built many ballrooms and many other things. I'm good at ballrooms.
• 29:11
  Speaker 6: That's the entrance to the.
• 29:13
  Speaker 8: New ballroom that's being built, which everybody, which everybody likes,
• 29:19
  Speaker 8: especially since last Saturday evening, they like it even more
• 29:22
  Speaker 8: because it'll have a thing called security.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: That was, those were all just this week, just this
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: week as the, as the war has erupted again and
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: they're trying to get a ceasefire and gas is going
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: through the roof. That was all this week in his remarks.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: And good news, Reuters just reported that the White House
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: is expecting to get the $ 400 million jumbo jet that
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: the Qatari royal family personally gifted to Donald Trump just
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: in time for America's birthday. Happy 4th. Here's a $ 400
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: million Qatari jumbo jet from the royal family.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: Well, the jet was free. The $ 400 million you paid for,
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: you the taxpayer, to upgrade the security on the jet, i.e.
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: remove all the listening devices the Qataris put in it.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: So, so far, Trump's whole Versailles on the Potomac vibe
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: has been yet another weight on his approval rating. But
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: now he's tossing the anchor at Republicans in Congress who
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: are stunningly about to vote on whether to spend $ 1 billion,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: our dollars, taxpayer dollars, on Donald Trump's ballroom, which they
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: are claiming is necessary for security reasons. Do you think
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: Republicans running in competitive races are excited about signing their
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: own political death warrants?
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: This is the most insane thing I have ever seen
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: a party do in an election year. They don't have
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: to do this. They chose to do this. They volunteered
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: to do it. And at a time in which they've
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: already voted to close rural hospitals, they've already voted to
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: kick people off their healthcare, they've voted to kick people
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: off their food assistance, they've said we don't have money
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: for education or childcare or anything else, but we have
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: a billion dollars for a fancy ballroom where Trump can
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: whine and die in the Epstein class? It's like, this
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: is like a stimulus program for political ad makers. Like
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: it is insane. I hope they vote today.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: I was just thinking about that. Like in this, I
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: wonder what you think about this in, in this like
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: media information environment, like it is right. It is like
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: a buffet for ad makers for democratic ad makers that
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: they've like never seen before. And I think in an
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: environment like that, like you want to go with like
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: one ad over and over again. And like all you need, like,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: I really think someone can go test this, but like,
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: All you need is an ad that just has like
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: image of him talking about the ballroom and then rural
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: hospital closing. Image about him talking about the fucking arch
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: that he's building and people talking about high gas prices,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: people at the pump. Image of him talking about the
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: fucking reflecting pool. and then people, like, you know, and
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: then war, and, like, you know, flag-draped coffee. Like, there's just...
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: This is so simple. There is nothing else that people
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: need to do but just, like, one 60-second ad that, like,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: shows the corruption embodied in Donald Trump talking about, and
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: Republicans with him talking about all of these, you know,
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: the arch, the whole thing, and then all the struggles
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: people are going through. And that's it. That's the only
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: thing you need.
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: You need the vote.
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: You need, like.
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: If they actually vote.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: Oh, the vote. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: It has to be there is money for all these
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: things that don't help you and there's no money for you.
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: And worse than that, they're going to take your money
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: and they're going to spend it on this dumb fancy
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: shit for rich people. Like it is an absolute gift.
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: And I think the ball– like there's so many things, right?
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: And you're right. Like in this media environment, like how
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: do you keep track? The ballroom has the ability to
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: be the equivalent of the– whatever it was, the $ 600 hammer,
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: the toilet seat, all the things in the Reagan era,
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: because one, it's so absurd. It's so ridiculous. And it
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: has the advantage of the fact that every time Trump
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: opens his mouth to breathe, he talks about the ballroom.
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: So it's like the one, we always talk about how
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: Democrats don't have the media firepower to make something that
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: is bad for Trump news all.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: On our own.
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: Here's the thing where Trump is doing it every single day.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: And so he himself is raising awareness of the ballroom.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: So it is like we are pushing on an open
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: door here.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: But also, all of these Republicans running in competitive races
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: are inevitably going to end up in a debate. And
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: I think if you are a Democratic candidate and you
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: do not make that Republican that you're running against in
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: a debate own the ballroom, talk about the ballroom, talk
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: about all of the corruption, then what are you doing?
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, I just think that is the easiest, easiest
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: layup I don't care if the question is about some
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: local fucking issue. Bring it back to the ballroom and
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump. Just do it.
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: It's wild we went from a $ 200 million corporate funded ballroom,
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: which was corruption, but at least we weren't paying for it,
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: to a $ 1 billion ballroom that we're all paying for.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Well, it's funny because it's literally the worst of both
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: worlds for them. Because half the ballroom is being funded
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: by Corporate donors that now get special access to the
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: White House and special meetings with Donald Trump. And then
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: the other half is paid for by us. It's just like.
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: Yes, it is. I've never I've never seen. It's like
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: it is like they want to lose. It's like Mike
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: Johnson hates his job so much. He has to get
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: he wants to unburden himself for the responsibility of the speakership.
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: It's a wild experiment. It's a wild experiment.
• 34:57
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• 37:45
  Speaker 1: So one reason Republicans may not defy Trump's insanely unpopular demands,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: his primary threats still work. As we found out Tuesday
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: in Indiana, for people who don't remember, last year, Trump
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: vowed to punish Indiana legislators who voted against gerrymandering the
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: state's maps. It turns out he did. Trump's primary challengers
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: ousted at least five of the seven state senators he targeted,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: who were helped by photos posing with Trump in the Oval,
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: and about... $ 8 to $ 10 million of ads against their opponents.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: Tennessee Republicans saw this and decided they would not be
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Trump's next victims. On Thursday, the governor there signed into
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: law new maps that would chop up the lone congressional
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: Democrats Memphis area district. Republicans in South Carolina, Alabama, Louisiana
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: are also contemplating new maps before the midterms, although it's
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: less clear if these states will succeed. Former playbook author
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: and journalist Rachel Bade called Trump's victory in the Indiana
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: primaries a quote, major flex, and said that it showed, quote,
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: that if you mess with the bull, you'll get the horns.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Agree or disagree?
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: I would take a cold shower if I was her. Like,
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: was this a win for Trump?
• 38:54
  Speaker 6: Yes.
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: Had these incumbent senators defeated the Trump-backed primary challengers, would
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: that have been a massive defeat for Trump that probably
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: would have led this show?
• 39:05
  Speaker 8: Absolutely.
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: But we have to put this in perspective. This is
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: the incumbent president of the White House with the full
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: backing of his political operation in the MAGA movement that
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: spent $ 9 million to defeat five state senators.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Also, like, so Trump is above water in Indiana. His
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: approval is like, he's like plus three in Indiana, which
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: is- that's bad.
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: Well, I know it is bad, but like, he's also
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: probably plus 75 in a Republican primary.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: That's what I was going to say. So then you
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: get to a Republican primary. Then you get to a,
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: the turnout in a Republican primary, which some of these
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: state senators that won, won with 7,000 votes, 8,000 votes.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: That was about it. Talk about a low turnout Republican
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: primary in Indiana. I fucking hope so. I hope he
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: could win.
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: He spent like $ 10, 000 a vote.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Exactly. It's so crazy. It's like, I would have been shocked.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: I would have been shocked if those senators held on.
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, the real test comes in two weeks in
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: the Kentucky primary with Tom Massey.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: That's the one.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: That's more of a test for sure.
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: We also have Also in two weeks, I think, the
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: Louisiana primary. In the next couple weeks, we have the
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: Louisiana primary with Bill Cassidy, who Trump is primary. But
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: that is a three-way race. And so the Trump's chosen
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: candidate probably will make the runoff, but probably won't break through.
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: So that one's hard to see. But Cassidy might be
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: toast anyway. But Trump still has sway in the Republican Party.
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: Of course, he's the incumbent president. He just has less
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: sway than he used to.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Also, you know what? I'm happy for him to have
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: all the sway he wants.
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: Well, not until you get to the next question.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: Because he has a 35% approval rating. And if a
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: bunch of Republicans want to tie themselves to Donald Trump
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: and his approval rating as they head into the midterms,
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: best of luck.
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, except in one very notable exception, which we'll get
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: to in one second.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: You mean where redistricting is headed right now?
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 41:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, the benefit for Trump here is a lot
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: of these members do not, in the states that have
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: already voted, filing deadlines are passed, A lot of the
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: state legislators would prefer to not take these extraordinary steps
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: to redraw the maps in the favor of Republicans. And
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: if they had any hesitancy to do so, the Indiana
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: primary will send a message that they better do it
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: or they will suffer the consequences in their 2028 primaries.
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: We're more likely to end with Republicans maximizing, to the
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: extent they can, the advantages given to them by the
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: Supreme Court decision than after Indiana than we were before. Now,
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: is that going to add up to a ton of seats?
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: That's an open question, but like, if you, if you
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: did not want to do this in South Carolina was
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: one place where they did not want to do it,
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: they may end up doing it now because of this.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And really you're talking about South Carolina and Alabama
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: and Tennessee, which we just talked about. Because Louisiana was always,
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: Louisiana was always going to go whether, whatever, whatever they
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: thought about Trump, because that's the, that was the state
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: involved in the case. Um, And Alabama still needs a
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: court to lift an injunction. So they're waiting on that.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: South Carolina could go. And then that's about it. Like
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: Mississippi is already thinking they're going to wait until 2028.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Georgia already said no. So, you know, you're right, but
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: it's not like I would, I'm personally more nervous waiting
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: for the Virginia state Supreme court to rule on the
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: referendum because that to me is.
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: A, That's the four suites. Yeah, if we lose that
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: four-seat swing, then Republicans will end up with a significant,
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: not insurmountable, but a significant advantage in the midterms. I
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: still think, even if we lost Virginia, I still think
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: Democrats would be favored to take the majority. But the
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: margin by which we would do so, I think, would
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: be much narrower, thus making it harder to hold in 2028.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: So obviously, we can see this and just, you know,
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: worry about what might happen, what might not happen. Is
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: there anything Democrats can do about all of this in
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: the short and medium term?
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, what we're watching right now is incredibly
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: infuriating to watch in Tennessee, a state with a significant
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: black population just carve up Memphis, one of the blackest
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: cities in America, and ensure it has no democratic representation.
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's infuriating and it's deflating. And that's ultimately
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: the goal, right? The people who do gerrymandering and voter
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: suppression want you to give up. They want you to
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: feel like your power is being taken away so that
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: you stop using your power. That's the ultimate win here.
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: And so we obviously cannot let that happen. And here
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: are just like three things. And none of these are satisfying.
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: Let me be specific. None of them are satisfying. But
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: here are the things where we can focus our energy
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: right now. The first is we have to redouble our
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: efforts to take the House and hopefully the Senate in 2026.
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: The reason for that is we need, that is the
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: foundation for the governing coalition that we will have in
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: 2029 with a Democratic president to actually pass things like
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: a ban on partisan gerrymandering, to do real electoral reform,
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: to make our system more small d democratic. The second thing,
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: and this is critically important, is we have to pour
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: our time, our money, our resources into state legislative races.
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: Because there's going to be efforts to redraw the maps
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: in 2028, in 2030, and most importantly, in 2032 after
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: the next census. So we have to have as much
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: power as we possibly can to draw the maps in
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: as many places. Even in states where we can't take
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: the majority, if we can get close to the majority,
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: we can have potentially an influence on how those maps
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: are drawn. This is absolutely important. This is where the
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: future of American democracy is going to be, absent some
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: sort of ban on partisan gerrymandering, is going to be
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: decided in state legislative races and in governor's mansions for
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: the map redraws. And we're going to live in a
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: cycle of perpetual map redraws. The last thing here is
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: we have to put pressure on the blue states where
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: we have the ability to fight fire with fire. Illinois, Maryland,
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: New York. In states where we have control, but where
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: we have put in place, because we like good government,
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: bans on gerrymandering, like in Michigan, we have to put
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: pressure on our politicians to look for ways, like they
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: did in California, like they did in Virginia, to undo
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: those bans to be able to compete here. Because we
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: can't live in a world of unilateral disarmament, and we
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: cannot accept any Democratic politician that does.
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: It's a good list. I like that. And I do
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: think that the good news is, Some of these Democratic
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: governors have signaled, I know that Kathy Hochul has in
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: New York, that as we look to 2028, they're going
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: to redraw the map. They just couldn't do it in
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: time for 26. All right. Last thing we have to
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: talk about before you hear Lovett's conversation with Tom Steyer.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: As you know, FBI Director Kash Patel has been in
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: hot water since a story in The Atlantic in mid-April
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: sourced to more than two dozen people about Patel's, quote,
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: conspicuous inebriation and unexplained absences. Patel filed a defamation lawsuit
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: against the magazine and the writer, Sarah Fitzpatrick, seeking $ 250
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: million in damages. MS Now reports that Patel is also
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: having the FBI investigate Fitzpatrick as part of an effort
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: to uncover the leakers, which is unprecedented when the information
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: involved isn't classified, though the FBI flatly denies that this
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: is happening. The Atlantic also doesn't seem to know this
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: is going on according to their statement, but that is
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: the reporting. Fitzpatrick and the Atlantic responded by publishing another banger. Apparently,
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: Cash has been gifting people customized bottles of Woodford Reserve
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: engraved with the FBI shield and Cash's name spelled with
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: the dollar sign for the S, which is... the parking
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: triggers me the most.
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: It's perfect. It's just perfect.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: A lot of the FBI insiders sourcing the story said
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: the bourbon freebies make them really uncomfortable. Yeah, no shit.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: Because they are a clear violation of FBI regulations around alcohol.
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: A bureau spokesperson said that cash reimburses the cost and that, quote,
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: the bottles in question are part of a tradition in
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: the FBI that started well over a decade ago. Though
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: they declined to elaborate on that tradition and Fitzpatrick writes
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: that when she ran that by a former FBI official, quote,
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: He burst out laughing. What do you think about this? Also,
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: MS Now, Carol Lennig and Ken Delanian reported right before
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: we started that Cash is in full panic mode about
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: his job, and he has been ordering polygraphs of more
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: than two dozen former and current members of his security
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: detail and other staff over all these stories about him
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: being J. Edgar Boozer.
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: No one has ever tried and failed harder to be
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: cool than Cash Patel. It's like his every.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: What about JD Vance? He hasn't really tried that hard,
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: I guess.
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: No, he has not. He's barely tried at all. I
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: haven't even seen him once try to be cool. Cash
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: Patel is handing out... Cash Patel's entire life is defined
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: by being stuffed in a locker once, and he is
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: handing out bottles of bourbon to people who think he's ridiculous,
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: and he put a dollar sign in his name like
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: he's Kesha. Like, what are we doing?
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: Is that what it is? I don't know, but it's like,
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: he thinks that's... He's cash, get it? Cash.
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: He thinks it's cool. No, I get it. I get it.
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: He thinks that makes it cooler.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine if that jack-off gave you a bottle
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: of bourbon with his, and some of them are signed too.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: So they're engraved with his name, but if you're lucky,
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: you get an actual signed version of it, which the
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: Atlantic reporter was able to buy online. I think, I
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: think she got it on eBay. Um, and it was, um,
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: it was sold by someone who got it at an
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: event in Las Vegas where he spends much of his time, um,
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: in the poodle room at the top of the fountain blue.
• 49:14
  Speaker 5: Is what happens.
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: The Polaroid was such a funny term.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: Such a funny term.
• 49:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: Do we know what kind of bourbon's in there?
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: It's Woodford Reserve, so it's just, you know. It is.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: It's Woodford. It's Woodford. And then they had to contact
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: Woodford Reserve and they're like, look, we don't, you know,
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of people engrave our stuff and it happens
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: after we already sort of send the bottle out.
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: That's great.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: I think it was you and I When I talked about, like,
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: I still place a bet on that he's out by
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: the end of the year. Was it me and you?
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think that's right. Yeah, I think we...
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: I still think that's... You said after the midterms.
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: You can't be running around handing out bottles of bourbon,
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: being so drunk, allegedly, that your security detail, who you're
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: now polygraphing, had to, like, send in a SWAT team
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: to get you up in the morning because you wouldn't
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: wake up, and then just panic... that you can't get
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: into your email thinking it means you're fired, and now
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: you're giving everyone polygraph tests. I mean, that shit is wild.
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, we put a mid-level congressional staffer whose
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: main job is podcaster in charge of the FBI.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: The FBI. And it's like, I think people, because you
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: see like, you know, Pam Bondi getting fired at DOJ, obviously,
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: Justice Department, very important. You see like, christy gnome at
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: dhs you see pete hegseth at dod but it's like
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: when you're the head of the fbi like these are
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: these are like the top federal law enforcement officials in
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: the country in the world really and you it's kind
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: of a hands-on job it's not like you're the secretary
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: and you got a bunch of people underneath and your
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: job is to go be on tv and do the
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: tv thing and then like the whole place is running
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: itself like you're the fucking fbi director man this is
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: a It's the worst place to put in someone this
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: unbelievably unqualified and seemingly has plenty of issues.
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: Like truly mind-blowingly was confirmed by the Senate. This was
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: not just someone that Trump picked and installed in there.
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: The United States Senate had hearings with him. Tom Tillis
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: introduced him, by the way, at his hearing.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: He's selling merch. He's still selling cash merch on his website.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: Which again, I wonder like how many units is he
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: selling of cash merch every month?
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: Let's just do the hypothetical here. So let's hypothetically say
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: that you're Donald Trump and people around him, you're like,
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: you know what? I know it doesn't make a ton
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: of sense, but I think cash should be at the FBI.
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: It's been his dream. He's always wanted to be cool.
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: This is his best chance. I'm going to do this
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: for him and the gratitude because Trump is a very
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: generous person and he wants to help people. So he
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: wants to do this. So then the idea would be like, yeah,
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: we kind of know he's not fully qualified for this job.
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: So we're going to surround him.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: With a strong number two. With a strong number two.
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: Another podcaster. Another podcaster.
• 52:12
  Speaker 5: It's like, what are we doing?
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: Anyway, I feel safe. I feel safe. I'm going to
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: sleep well tonight. All right, Dan. When we come back,
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: you'll hear Lovett's conversation with California gubernatorial candidate Tom Steyer.
• 52:33
  Speaker 9: Pod Save America is brought to you by Stamps.com. It's
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• 54:01
  Speaker 4: Joining me now, he is currently running for governor here
• 54:03
  Speaker 4: in California to succeed Gavin Newsom. Welcome back to the pod,
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: Tom Steyer.
• 54:08
  Speaker 5: John, it's nice to be back with you. All right.
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: Let's start with this. California is losing population to states
• 54:14
  Speaker 4: like Texas. What is your diagnosis as to why that's happening?
• 54:20
  Speaker 5: I think it's clear, to be honest, John. California is
• 54:22
  Speaker 5: too expensive for Californians to live in anymore. And it
• 54:25
  Speaker 5: starts with housing, but it certainly includes health care. We
• 54:28
  Speaker 5: pay twice as much for electricity as the average in
• 54:31
  Speaker 5: the United States of America. And of course, gasoline prices
• 54:34
  Speaker 5: are going crazy all over the country, but including California.
• 54:40
  Speaker 5: And in addition, I think what we're seeing from the
• 54:42
  Speaker 5: Middle East is that we're going to have a big
• 54:43
  Speaker 5: rise in food prices in the fall.
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: So let's talk about the gas tax here in California,
• 54:49
  Speaker 4: because I think it gets at something that I feel
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: is a bit missing from the debate. I watched the
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: debate last night.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: Boy, rowdy.
• 54:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: So California has one of, if not the highest gas
• 55:00
  Speaker 4: tax in the country. We spend more on roads than
• 55:06
  Speaker 4: any other state. We also have the worst roads in
• 55:09
  Speaker 4: the country. And I hear you talk a lot about
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: the ways in which you want to change the tax
• 55:14
  Speaker 4: code and raise revenue. But I'm curious how you view
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: the role of governor in getting costs like.
• 55:19
  Speaker 5: That under control. Anytime you're running an organization, you have
• 55:24
  Speaker 5: to demand accountability. And if you're running an organization, I
• 55:28
  Speaker 5: think it's an old statement that if you can't measure it,
• 55:32
  Speaker 5: you can't manage it. So to a very large extent,
• 55:35
  Speaker 5: if you're going to be running the state of California
• 55:39
  Speaker 5: and demanding that the roads be maintained well, so you're
• 55:42
  Speaker 5: going to measure maintenance, how are the roads, and you're
• 55:46
  Speaker 5: going to measure how much it costs to maintain them,
• 55:48
  Speaker 5: then that's something that people are going to have to
• 55:50
  Speaker 5: manage to. And it's a question of accountability and control.
• 55:54
  Speaker 5: And I think it's quite clear in California in multiple
• 55:57
  Speaker 5: places that that's not a system that's existed. It's not
• 56:01
  Speaker 5: a system where people have been able to do that.
• 56:04
  Speaker 5: And that's a management task. You know, this is the
• 56:08
  Speaker 5: governor is an executive function. And so, yeah, you have
• 56:11
  Speaker 5: an organization to run and you have an organization like
• 56:15
  Speaker 5: every other organization in terms of how you manage that
• 56:19
  Speaker 5: through the people and how you manage that through the numbers.
• 56:21
  Speaker 4: So can you talk a bit about your experience? in
• 56:25
  Speaker 4: management because you started a hedge fund in San Francisco
• 56:30
  Speaker 4: in 1986. You were an investor. My understanding of what
• 56:35
  Speaker 4: your role would be as somebody who is running a
• 56:37
  Speaker 4: hedge fund is you are investigating companies, you're looking into companies,
• 56:41
  Speaker 4: you're giving feedback to companies, but you're not running organizations directly.
• 56:45
  Speaker 4: You're running your smaller organization that's finding different companies and
• 56:49
  Speaker 4: businesses and evaluating their management as opposed to directly.
• 56:52
  Speaker 5: Doing it yourself. Okay, let me... give you a different
• 56:55
  Speaker 5: view on that than the one you just put. I'm asking.
• 56:57
  Speaker 5: That's my impression. And basically what you're saying is being
• 57:00
  Speaker 5: an investor is doing an analytical job and a decision-making job,
• 57:05
  Speaker 5: but not a management job.
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: It's your point.
• 57:08
  Speaker 5: But the truth is, if you're running an investment business,
• 57:11
  Speaker 5: you have a choice very early on. Are you going
• 57:14
  Speaker 5: to be the person who runs the analysis and the
• 57:17
  Speaker 5: decision-making a la Warren Buffett? Or are you going to
• 57:21
  Speaker 5: manage the organization, which involves all the normal things about management,
• 57:25
  Speaker 5: hiring people, measuring people, holding them to account, building teams
• 57:29
  Speaker 5: and doing strategy. And that's what I did, honestly. So
• 57:32
  Speaker 5: very early on, it became clear to me that my
• 57:35
  Speaker 5: job was to actually, I had to make that choice.
• 57:38
  Speaker 5: It was a very clear, distinct choice. And my job
• 57:40
  Speaker 5: became managing people. And if you look at it, I've
• 57:43
  Speaker 5: started a lot of organizations and all of, you know,
• 57:46
  Speaker 5: if we registered 1.2 million Californians which we did, that's management.
• 57:53
  Speaker 5: You know, if you start a bank, a nonprofit community bank,
• 57:57
  Speaker 5: to try and go to the places commercial banks won't
• 58:00
  Speaker 5: go and replace them so that you can serve underserved communities,
• 58:05
  Speaker 5: that's management. You know, the truth of the matter is
• 58:08
  Speaker 5: there are people like Warren Buffett, and if you've ever
• 58:10
  Speaker 5: been to visit him in Omaha... Haven't had the pleasure.
• 58:13
  Speaker 5: Let me describe it. Okay. It's kind of like this room. Mm-hmm.
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: It's him.
• 58:19
  Speaker 5: an assistant that he's probably had for 50 years in
• 58:23
  Speaker 5: a room, and he really is an investor.
• 58:27
  Speaker 4: Do you think it's fair that my assessment of what
• 58:30
  Speaker 4: you're talking about on the campaign trail, you seem to
• 58:33
  Speaker 4: me more excited or interested or passionate about closing tax
• 58:38
  Speaker 4: loopholes on corporations, reforming the tax code, bringing in revenue
• 58:43
  Speaker 4: to pay for the things we need than you are
• 58:46
  Speaker 4: on the actual kind of reasons, California. California has the
• 58:50
  Speaker 4: highest per capita or one of the highest per capita
• 58:53
  Speaker 4: spending of any state in the country. Texas is much lower.
• 58:57
  Speaker 4: We're still losing people to these states. So I feel
• 59:00
  Speaker 4: you saying we have this affordability crisis. We need to
• 59:03
  Speaker 4: raise revenue. I don't hear as much about how important
• 59:06
  Speaker 4: it would be to figure out why California is so
• 59:08
  Speaker 4: expensive in the government.
• 59:10
  Speaker 5: Why the government is so expensive.
• 59:11
  Speaker 4: Yes, why the government is so expensive.
• 59:12
  Speaker 5: Okay, so, but let me put it to you this way.
• 59:14
  Speaker 5: I have run organizations and I'm somebody who will go
• 59:17
  Speaker 5: line by line. And I will be a good steward
• 59:20
  Speaker 5: of people's tax money because I understand very fully that
• 59:25
  Speaker 5: every dollar we save, every dollar we don't spend is
• 59:28
  Speaker 5: a dollar we can spend. on educating a kid. It's
• 59:32
  Speaker 5: a dollar we can spend on healthcare for people who
• 59:35
  Speaker 5: need it. And so actually, if you look at the people,
• 59:38
  Speaker 5: I started an organization from zero. If you think I
• 59:42
  Speaker 5: was not minding my pennies and actually measuring where they're,
• 59:45
  Speaker 5: I didn't have a salary. I didn't get paid. I
• 59:49
  Speaker 5: knew that I had to be careful. And in every
• 59:52
  Speaker 5: one of the things that I've done, I've had to
• 59:54
  Speaker 5: be serious about making sure that the money that is
• 59:58
  Speaker 5: used is well used. And I think that if you
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 5: look at somebody who's run organizations that had to be
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 5: careful about money, I'm the person who's done that. And
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 5: I feel like being a good steward of the money
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 5: is critical. I will also say that for everybody who
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 5: says they're going to fund the growth in services from waste, fraud,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 5: and abuse. We've seen that movie. It's called Doge. It failed.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 5: And by the way, Betty Yee was the controller of
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 5: the state of California for eight years. She's endorsed me.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 5: Betty is a highly competent, very smart professional person. She
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 5: told me she found $ 7 billion of waste, fraud, and abuse,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 5: which is a lot. But last night on the debate stage,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 5: I think that... Steve Hilton said it was $ 540 billion. Look,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 5: we've seen this movie in Doge. It failed completely. Will
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 5: I be a good steward? And look, to me, John,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 5: this is a question of, are you going to hire
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 5: really good people? And are you then going to give
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 5: them systems that enable them to oversee this and watch
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 5: it and be good? Yes. Are we going to do that? Yes.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 5: Am I aware that the internal information systems of the
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 5: state of California are several generations behind the time? That's
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 5: me being nice. And so do I, is that something
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 5: that I will take seriously? I'm telling you, if you
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 5: go around this state, you can see that people are suffering.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 5: And the idea that I will not be profligate with
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 5: tax dollars because every dollar that we save, every dollar
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 5: that is misused, every dollar of waste, fraud, and abuse,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 5: I believe is the term, is just money that we
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 5: can use for people. And I will not take that lightly.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: And so.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 4: Let's say you're going through the budget and you're looking
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 4: for places to save. If we spend more per pupil
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 4: than other states, we don't get good results for it.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 4: We spend more on our roads. You're also talking about
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 4: reforming parts of the tax code that clearly need reform
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: for people that are not from California. We have a
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 4: rule that was passed by referendum that makes it very
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: hard to change that really limits property taxes. And if
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: you bought a piece of commercial real estate in the 70s,
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 4: you're paying extremely low rate on it. You want to
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: close that loophole. But that money would then go into the.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 5: Can I challenge some of your assumptions? Yeah, yeah. One
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 5: of the things that people think is what you just said,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 5: which is that we spend a lot per pupil and
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 5: we don't get good results. We have gone from being
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 5: the number one education state in the United States to
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 5: somewhere in the 30s.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 4: In the 30s, based on per pupil adjusted for cost
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 4: of living. But that includes all the ways in which
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 4: California is expensive because of how we're already mismanaged.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 5: Which is what I'm going after.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 4: But my point is that we are still spending a
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 4: lot per pupil and not getting good results. It's just
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 4: you have to adjust it based on all the other
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 4: ways California is fucked up.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 5: But if you're thinking about it from the standpoint of
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 5: education for a second, you're thinking about it in terms
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 5: of cost. But let's talk about it in terms of
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 5: how education is going in California and why we're not
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 5: getting good results. The truth is, Getting good results is
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 5: a pretty straightforward thing and people like to make it
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 5: too complicated. And I used to think, you know, some
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 5: different things. But the truth is the by far biggest
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 5: determinant of student success is how good the teachers are.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 5: And getting good teachers is not magic. This is not
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 5: like we need to conjure up, you know, something. The
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 5: truth is you have to hire people who are really good.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 5: You have to support them and help train them. And
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 5: then you need to retain them when they've gotten to
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 5: a level where they're a huge asset to the state.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 5: And we aren't doing that because you can say it's
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 5: a lot of money compared to other states, but it's
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 5: not a lot of money if you have to live
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 5: in California, which is why I'm talking about bringing down
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 5: housing costs, which is why I'm going crazy on healthcare costs,
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 5: which is why I'm saying we're going to go after
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 5: the electric monopolies and reduced electricity costs, which is why
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 5: I'm saying I'll do a windfall because it's like, we
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 5: need to drive down those costs. so that we're competitive
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 5: with other states. And we also need to make sure
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 5: that teachers being paid enough so they can live in
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 5: the district. So we can hire really good people. We
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 5: should spend the money to train them. And then we
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 5: need to retain them. And for, you know, it is
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 5: true that if you step back and look at the
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 5: 50 states, then the teachers look well paid compared to
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 5: the teachers in Mississippi. That is true. But the costs
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 5: in Mississippi are much, much lower. And the teachers are
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 5: most often living outside. These are the reason we're having trouble.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 5: It's very hard to hire teachers in California because Because
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 5: they can't live on the salary.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 4: Well, we had, you know, there was a strike in
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 4: San Francisco and people were mocking the teachers for going
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 4: on strike because of what the salaries look like in
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 4: real numbers. But of course, it's because San Francisco is
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 4: so unaffordable.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 5: Let's talk.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 4: I want to finish. I want to ask one more
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 4: question about schools and I want to get to housing.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 4: So in January, Governor Newsom proposed reform. So we have
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 4: a convoluted system in which the Board of Education and
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 4: the Department of Education are separate. Do you support those
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: reforms to have more authority go up to the governor?
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 6: I don't.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 5: Support reform. I'm going to answer your question with a
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 5: different perspective.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 4: I never I don't understand why that's not easy. Yes,
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 4: you're spending so much money to be governor. Don't you
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 4: want to be powerful?
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 5: We were in Los Angeles. The fires in Altadena and
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 5: Pacific Palisades. There were an awful lot of agencies trying
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 5: to do the right thing. There was the city. There
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 5: was the county. There was the state. There was no coordination.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 5: What I said is I want to reframe your question
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 5: to do you believe in much clearer, simpler lines of authority?
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 5: Do you believe in not overlapping lines? you know, agencies
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 5: doing the same task with different rules that people have
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 5: to live up to, which is expensive, but it's much,
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 5: it's much more than that. It actually prevents things from
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 5: getting done. Right.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: Well, that's why, that's why you asked me the question.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 5: I'm saying under those circumstances, of course, I'm in favor
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 5: of that. Okay. But it's like, it's a bigger question
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 5: than just the question you asked about education.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 4: Well, this one reform is just about let's consolidate some
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 4: of these authorities because one of the things that happens
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 4: in the wake of fires is because the accountant, because the, the,
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 4: The responsibilities are diffused. The accountability is disputes. And this
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 4: is a proposal by the governor to make.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 5: And that's my point is it's a bigger question than
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 5: just education is all I was trying to say. And
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 5: of course, every case, this is a, you know, it's,
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 5: it's critical. I was talking about response to fire because
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 5: it was so poorly coordinated, clearly, but it's also true
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 5: in terms of housing. Very much. So when you talk
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 5: about all the different agencies for permitting, you know, it's like, okay, it, overlapping, contradictory, expensive, time-consuming.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 5: Big thing about housing is it takes a really long
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 5: time to get it done. Here's why. Yeah. And so
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 5: you're asking me, do I think it's better to simplify
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 5: and actually coordinate so that in fact, the people who
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 5: are at the end of the decision tree get faster,
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 5: clearer decisions that are not contradictory? Why, yes, I do.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 5: That's a management task.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 4: So let's talk about housing because you've been saying something
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 4: that's confusing to me and I just want to understand it,
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 4: which is One reason mayors oppose additional housing is because
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 4: it becomes an unfunded mandate for schools and healthcare in
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 4: their areas. But at the same time, because of our
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 4: property tax system, new homeowners, new builds are one of
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 4: the ways in which you can get the property tax
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 4: number back up. And we have rules in California that require...
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 4: local funding for schools in part based on population. So
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 4: I don't understand what's unfunded.
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 5: Because what's really happening for the cities and counties is
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 5: they used to rely on what you described accurately as
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 5: real estate taxes, local real estate taxes for all that stuff.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 5: But nowadays, they rely very much on the state to
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 5: send them money. So when the state says, we want
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 5: you to permit 20,000 houses here and build them, they
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 5: are then relying on the state to send them the money,
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 5: in large part. I take your point, but in large part,
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 5: they're relying on the state to send them the money
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 5: to fund that. And that's why they put in the
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 5: big fees. You know, in some places in California, I
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 5: think including some places around here, the fee to build
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 5: a house is up to 20% the cost of the house,
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 5: which is amazing. But they're doing it for... It's not
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 5: like these are wicked people who are somehow trying to
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 5: rip people off. They are literally terrified. that they are
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 5: going to put themselves in a position where they cannot
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 5: take care of people. They cannot educate people.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: I think it's a little.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 5: There's Yimbyism, if that's going to be your point.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 4: Well, this is a sort of magnanimous fear for the future.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 4: They're listening to the constituents who are trying to fight
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 4: housing in their communities.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 5: There's a Yimby part of this for sure. But there
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 5: is also very much a money part of this. There
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 5: really is. And I think that The money part I
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 5: am obviously sympathetic to because they do have to provide
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 5: those services. The YIMBY part, I understand one size doesn't
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 5: fit all, but the truth is we need to build houses.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 5: And there's got to be.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 4: But why is a new apartment or a new home...
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 4: more of a liability than an old apartment or an
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 4: old home in a community when the only difference would
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 4: be the property tax rate. And that property tax rate
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 4: is lower for the old homes.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 5: I understand that. I just don't get it. They don't
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 5: have a choice about the old home. Like the old
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 5: home exists and people live there. So there that's just.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 4: Well, I'm saying that being mayor of an empty city
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 4: would be very, very sort of a streamlined job, but
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 4: it's still like that.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: I don't get it.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 5: But I think that they're looking for something different. If
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 5: you look around California over the last 30 or 40 years.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 5: Every city has wanted to attract business. Business pays taxes.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 5: Business doesn't use services. Every city or county has tried
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 5: to push back against housing because housing is expensive because
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 5: of the people who live there. And so that's been
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 5: the issue, and it's been the issue since 1978.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 4: So how much of it, in terms of getting this,
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 4: because you're in favor of SB 79, which I appreciate,
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 4: how much of the role of governor is about.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 4: Putting rules that localities can't break? Like, how much of
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 4: this is collaborative? How much of this is, like.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 5: It's both, of course. I mean, you know, because what
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 5: you're saying is, do you order them to do it
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 5: or do you work with them to do it? And,
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 5: of course, the answer is both. Like, you've got to have...
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 5: It's got to be a relationship. It's got to be
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 5: something where you collaborate and work together. It is a partnership,
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 5: but you've got to have some kind of stick at
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 5: the end of the day.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: So... Honestly.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 5: Because there is... I'm not a fool. The Yimby people
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 5: have endorsed me But the truth is, the reason there's
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 5: a YIMBY movement is because there's a very strong NIMBY movement.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 4: So you put a lot of your own money into
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 4: this race. There's also money being spent against you. And
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 4: I was looking at who's funding these sort of ads.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 4: And they have their usual mysterious names. And some of
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 4: it makes sense to me, right? Like the utilities, because
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 4: you have a proposal to go after the utilities. But
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 4: I was surprised to see that the realtors... have put
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 4: in money against you. And if you're someone who's saying,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 4: I'm going to build a million houses, I was surprised
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 4: to see, and a builder's group is against you.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 5: I think the realtors, I do understand. I think they're
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 5: worried that I actually am going to protect renters. I
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 5: think the realtors are much more about, am I in
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 5: fact going to protect renters from spikes in cost? And
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 5: am I going to push against landlords you know, when
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 5: I think that they're being abusive.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 4: But presumably the realtor's interest is transactions and having properties turnover.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 4: And there's a misaligned incentive here because of our silly
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 4: property tax rules. When we put in rules that make
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 4: sales more expensive, we ultimately can in some ways reduce
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 4: the property tax revenue because properties don't get sold. If
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 4: realtors make money On properties changing hands, are they getting
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 4: something wrong in spending against, or are they just wrong
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 4: about it?
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 5: Well, let me say this too, John.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: I'm curious.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 5: Do I think that I'm bad for business? Hell no.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 5: Do I think that I'm going to raise taxes on
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 5: billionaires and big companies? Yes. And I've said it explicitly.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 5: But do I think that I'm the person in this
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 5: race who understands business by far the best? Yes. And
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 5: I think if you look at the things when I've
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 5: taken on these corporate special interests, I've done it on
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 5: behalf of working people. I've raised billions of dollars. for
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 5: education and healthcare without charging Californians a penny, and I
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 5: haven't hurt the economy one bit. My goal here, I
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 5: always say it, is shared prosperity. You can't share something
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 5: you don't have. It's critical for us that actually we
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 5: compete really well around the world, which we do. We're
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 5: half the growth in the United States. That's critical for us.
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 5: We have to be a very successful, dynamic economy. We
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 5: have to be. The issue we have is we are
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 5: that on average. The problem is most of the people
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 5: in this state can't afford to live here. And we
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 5: have the highest poverty rate in the United States of America.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 5: And so when I talk about shared prosperity, I'm not joking,
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 5: but it starts with prosperity. And I'm going to push
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 5: very hard. Look, if we bring down housing costs, okay,
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 5: that is great for everybody who needs to buy a
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 5: house and everybody who needs to rent. Okay. It's also
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 5: great for everybody who is an employee because their costs
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 5: are much lower. If I talk about bringing down electricity costs,
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 5: is that great for every family? Heck yes, that's putting
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 5: money in every family's pocket. Oh, by the way, every
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 5: business's pocket. Did I mention that? I don't need to
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 5: talk about it. But if you go into the Central Valley,
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 5: you know you have to use a lot of electricity
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 5: to use water in farming. You know, you have to
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 5: irrigate and you have to move the water to where
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 5: it has to go. California farmers pay three times as
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 5: much for electricity to move water as Texas farmers. I
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 5: want to bring that down. It's a business thing as
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 5: well as a human thing in everything I'm talking about. Healthcare,
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 5: it is eating up businesses. It's eating up every family.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 5: You know, to be fair, the teachers who struck in
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 5: San Francisco couldn't pay their healthcare bills. That's what they
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 5: were striking about, healthcare. Really, and I went on the
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 5: line to ask them because I was like, how come
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 5: you guys are striking? You haven't struck in 60 years.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 5: And they're like, we can't pay healthcare. We were paying
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 5: one to two thousand dollars a month for a family
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 5: of three. We can't do it. And so when I'm
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 5: talking about bringing down health care costs. Yes, that's absolutely
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 5: for every family in this state. It's also every business
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 5: in this state. I want to make I want to
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 5: make sure we're competitive with everybody internationally and nationally. I
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 5: want this state to lead. I also want us to
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 5: be shared. I want this to be a state we're
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 5: proud of where we say we compete our ass off,
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 5: we succeed. But you know something? We don't leave people
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 5: by the side of the road. We're the state that
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 5: takes care of everybody in the state.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 4: So let's talk about health care, because I'm curious about
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 4: how you see us getting towards a single payer system.
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 4: Because when I look at what your critique is, you
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 4: talk a lot about the ways in which we have
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 4: a for profit system that tries to provide the least
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 4: amount of care for the greatest cost at the same time.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 4: In California, roughly half of the insured are insured through
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 4: the public system, and half of the people in the
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 4: private market are insured through the non-profit part of the
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 4: private market. Most of our hospitals are non-profit. And so
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 4: in a lot of ways, you can talk about the
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 4: profits of like an Anthem or a for-profit hospital system,
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 4: but majority of what we're spending, we are spending outside
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 4: of the for-profit system. So how do you get to
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 4: a single-payer system?
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 5: The great thing about a single-payer system is it does
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 5: take out the big profits from the health insurers, it
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 5: does give you an ability to negotiate with everybody. And so,
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 5: you know, that's not what people think about. But the
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 5: truth is, when you look at the costs that we're
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 5: spending that are so much higher than single payer systems,
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 5: it's because we don't have an ability to negotiate and
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 5: bring down costs across the board. So it starts with
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 5: the health insurers, but it goes way past that. And
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 5: the fact of the matter is, honestly, there'll be a
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 5: lot of work on this to get the details right.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 5: And that, you know, is going to be, as you'll
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 5: remember from 1994, there's a lot of work on this
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 5: to get the details right. But the truth is we
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 5: don't have a choice. And that's what I keep saying
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 5: to people. They keep saying it's a lot of brain damage,
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 5: which it is. But, you know, you sound like you've
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 5: done a lot of work to think about all these questions,
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 5: including this one.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 4: Not as much as you think.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 5: No, I'm kidding. I'm going to give you a B.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 5: No, I'm teasing. But the truth is this. If you
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 5: look at how much we're spending on health care and
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 5: what the trend is, It's not supportable. It's, honest to God,
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 5: not supportable. And so if you're sitting here this year
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 5: and saying, well, we can, you know, if we cut
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 5: this and we cut education and we do this and
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 5: we do that, then we can make the budget work.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 5: But the truth is, we're really, it is eating up
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 5: every family. That's why the teacher struck. It's really eating
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 5: up business. It is. And it's eating up the budget
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 5: of the state. We don't have a choice. And if
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 5: you look at the numbers, I can send you the numbers.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 5: It's one of those things where you sort of go like, oh, God.
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 5: You know, not, people say, why would you want to
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 5: do this? It's a lot of brain damage. It's very difficult.
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 5: You know, there'll be lots of, you know, toing and froing.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 5: All true. But we don't have a choice. And we
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 5: really don't have a choice. And there's, for everybody who says,
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 5: which people did say on the stage last night, we're
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 5: just going to do it better. It's like, the reason
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 5: I changed my mind on single payers, people have told
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 5: me that for so long. And it's like, you keep
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 5: telling me everything they said on the stage last night
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 5: that we're going to do to bring down costs.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 4: I heard 10 years ago, Yeah, I guess what I
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 4: like to be cynical for a moment, like I believe
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 4: in Medicare for all. I was infuriated by the Democrats
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 4: in Congress when I worked for President Obama, who stood
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 4: in the way of a public option and then even
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 4: a Medicare buy in for older people, which would have
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 4: helped the whole system. But when I look at a
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 4: state like California, I say, like, actually, we do have
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 4: a choice. We have a we have a like, for example,
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 4: in our Obamacare exchanges, actually a bright spot.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: We were able to negotiate.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 4: Less of a rate hike than even in a place
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 4: like Texas. We're able to compete on this one lever.
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 4: We have a better public system than states we're losing
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 4: people to. If I'm trying to say, all right, we
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 4: need California. We have, you're right, we're this massive and
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 4: growing economy. We're half the growth of the country. We
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 4: also have a high unemployment rate, right? We need to
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 4: figure out how to get people who are working for businesses,
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 4: which means they have insurance already to make an affordable
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 4: life here. A single payer system. isn't necessarily something they're
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 4: looking for. It's not their biggest problem. The cost of
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 4: health care is what they're saying.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 5: If it's not their problem, then it's their employer's problem.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 5: And that's the truth. You know, there's no way to
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 5: get around what's going on in health care. And it's overwhelming.
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 5: And honestly, you know, I was spending time with the
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 5: nurses yesterday, and they see this up close, the people
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 5: who don't get care because it's too expensive to get
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 5: care until it's really a disaster. the people whose lives
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 5: get blown apart by getting sick. All the stuff that
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 5: they see on a daily basis, human tragedy, where in
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 5: fact a simpler system at lower cost will enable us
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 5: to deliver. And John, I don't think we have a choice.
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 5: There are a lot of things where you can say, Tom,
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 5: this is a complicated problem with a lot of players
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 5: and a lot of interest with high emotion. Agreed. But
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 5: if you look at it, we honestly don't have a
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 5: choice if we think that health care is a right. Look, obviously,
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 5: there's another attitude, which is the Trump attitude, which is
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 5: let's kick people on Medi-Cal. And it's not a right.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 5: And in fact, you know, we'll go back to the
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 5: system where people don't get care or they get care
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 5: at the emergency room. And obviously, what I'm trying to
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 5: do with California is something different. Look, we are a
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 5: really rich, successful, powerful state. We need to show what
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 5: the 21st century looks like. We need to show what actually...
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 5: We can do as a democratic state to show we
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 5: have to show what we stand for and what we
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 5: have to stand for is health care is right. That
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 5: has got to be unquestioned. And then the question is.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 5: And we have to start. You were saying, am I
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 5: going to be a good steward of money? Yes. That's
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 5: what this is. This is saying we're going to provide
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 5: that at a price that we can afford. And that's
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 5: going to involve a lot of work. But that's the
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 5: way it goes. And in housing, are we going to
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 5: drive down the cost of housing? Yes. Is it going
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 5: to be a lot of work? Yes. And that's the
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 5: way it goes. And we're going to take on the
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 5: electric monopolies. And they don't like it. And they're spending
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 5: tens of millions of dollars against me. But you know something?
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 5: They keep telling us that twice the rate of everybody
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 5: else in the United States is cheap and we should
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 5: just grin and bear it. That is not true at
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 5: a time when electricity prices around the world are plummeting
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 5: and ours are going up. So it's like, if you
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 5: want change, you got to take on the status quo
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 5: and it's hard, but somebody's got to do it. And
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 5: that's why I'm running for governor.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 4: So you have a little drawing on your hand, which
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 4: is meant to tell you to be honest at all times.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: Is that the idea? What does it mean?
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 5: Sincere, honest, do your absolute best because you can't control
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 5: the outcome.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 4: So, you know, Katie Porter put you on the spot
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 4: in the debate last night over this billionaire tax that's
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 4: on the ballot. And I feel like she thought she
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 4: was putting you on the spot because you're a billionaire
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 4: who's spending a lot of money on this race. This
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 4: tax is, I think, widely viewed as kind of a.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: Bad policy.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 4: And she thought you'd be wouldn't want to say you're
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 4: against it, but wouldn't want to say you're for it.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 4: But then you just said that you're for it, which
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 4: I think caught her off guard. That was my read
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 4: of it. But you don't think it's a good policy
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 4: to have a one time surcharge as part of the budget.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 4: And yet you said you're for it. That's, I think,
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 4: what was confusing about.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 5: OK, here's what I said. I said, if it's on
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 5: the ballot, I'll vote for it.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 5: But going forward, we need to do more because it's
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 5: so I said two things because it's a one time
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 5: thing and because it doesn't distribute the money throughout the
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 5: you know, all the needs of Californians. It just puts
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 5: it into one part of the budget, which is health care.
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 4: But are you worried at all that California already has
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 4: a progressive income tax? We are already a high tax state.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 4: A huge amount of our state budget comes from the
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 4: wealthiest earners because of our corporate tax rate, which is
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 4: also one of, if not the highest in the country.
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 4: I am all for reforming the tax code. And a
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 4: lot of this does flow from the property tax issue.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 4: But but at the same time, if we are going
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 4: to shift more of the tax burden towards the top
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 4: and we see wealthy people leave the state, the critique
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 4: would be you're going to start to see that revenue
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 4: need to come from somewhere else, which means you're going
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 4: to start moving it down to the bottom. I feel
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 4: like you're coming out in favor of this tax because
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 4: it's sort of the wages of being a billionaire in
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 4: the race. And so you kind of have to say
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 4: you're for it, even though long term, you don't think
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 4: it's a good idea.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: That's just my take.
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 5: I got it. But let me make this point. If
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 5: you actually look at how The richest people in this
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 5: state make money. It is not the way you're describing
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 5: as being taxed. You know, the income tax is based
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 5: on income, right?
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 4: But we have a cap gains rate in the state
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 4: as well.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah. And in order to get capital gains, last I checked,
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 5: you have to sell.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 5: So you're basically saying the way you pay tax as
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 5: an individual in this state is either to get a wage,
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 5: a salary or a bonus. Or to sell your stock
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 5: in something at a gain. Those are the two things, right?
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 6: Mm-hmm.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 5: Dividends, yeah. Yeah. But these stocks don't pay dividends, to
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 5: be clear. But actually, that's not the way this works.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 5: Because if you actually are one of these people who starts,
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 5: which I've said repeatedly I'm in favor of, a new
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 5: brilliant idea company and the thing blows up and you
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 5: end up being worth a ton of money. You're worth
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 5: a ton of money on paper, right? You own stock.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 5: So now... John owns $ 10 billion worth of stock in
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 5: a crypto company. Okay. You haven't paid any tax. You know,
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 5: whatever you're being paid as a salary relative to your
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 5: worth is de minimis, right? If anything. But what you
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 5: have is a whole bunch. And so let's say, but
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 5: you know, the truth is you want to buy a
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 5: big house or whatever the hell you want to buy.
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 5: Let's not get into, you know, all that name calling,
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 5: but you want it. Okay. So do you sell your stock?
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 5: No. You don't sell your stock. You borrow against your stock.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 5: So now you still have $ 10 billion worth of stock,
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 5: but you have $ 100 million of debt against the stock,
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 5: which you still own, and you've paid zero tax. So
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 5: the question is, in the real world, when we're seeing
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 5: this explosion of wealth, which we're seeing in companies that
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 5: do not pay dividends, thank you very much, because none
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 5: of them do, the way they pay dividends is by
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 5: buying in shares. Because dividends are double taxation, that's single taxation.
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 5: That's been true, oh God, for 50 years. No one
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 5: pays dividends because it's taxed. So instead, okay, now you
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 5: have your $ 10 billion. You've never paid any tax. So
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 5: the question is, actually, is this such a bad idea?
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 5: As I said, it's a one-time thing for a long-term problem.
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 5: It doesn't go far enough and it doesn't spread the
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 5: money fairly. But the truth is, it's a step forward,
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 5: which is what I was saying. So no, I'm not
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 5: being cynical and dishonest. I'm saying, look, is it perfect?
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 5: I said it wasn't perfect. But I said, if it's
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 5: on the ballot, I'll vote for it. And that was
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 5: the truth. I hear that.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 4: Do you worry at all about.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 2: The.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 4: We have extraordinary wealth at the top. We have higher unemployment.
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 4: We have people fleeing the state because of affordability. If
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 4: we start trying to solve the problem by taxing At
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 4: the top, more than we already are, which we are
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 4: a high-tech state, we will start to see even that
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 4: bright spot, which is that some of the biggest tech
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 4: companies of the world are based here. Some of the
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 4: most profitable businesses in the world are based here.
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 5: They're not hiring enough. Look, so if the people leave,
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 5: that's one thing, right?
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 5: You now are worth $ 10 billion and you don't want
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 5: to pay any tax on it ever.
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 4: So I'm moving to Florida.
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 5: So you're moving to Florida. You now live in Florida,
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 5: I'd like to point out to you, John.
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 4: I'd rather be a millionaire in California than a billionaire
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 4: in Florida. You know what I'm saying?
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 5: Me too. But the thing that is, that I do
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 5: take seriously, is the idea of businesses leaving. Because what
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 5: I said to you is, everything I'm doing is to
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 5: make us more competitive from a business standpoint. Every single thing.
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 5: So businesses leave, that's a different thing. And last night
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 5: on this stage, if you'll notice, they mentioned four businesses
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 5: that had left, right? Tesla.
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: Tesla.
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 5: Elon Musk.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: Palantir.
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 5: Palantir. Salesforce?
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 5: Oracle. Oracle. Charles Schwab. Charles Schwab. Anything common about those
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 5: companies that you've noticed? You tell me. Come on.
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 3: The Trump people?
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 4: Is that what you're saying?
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 5: Every one of those guys is a right-wing person. And
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 5: that's why they left. They didn't leave just because of
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 5: their fears about taxes. They didn't leave because, you know,
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 5: somehow this... People may leave because of this tax, because
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 5: this is about billionaires, but the corporations that left don't
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 5: like what California stands for. Ellison, Oracle, Musk, Tesla, Charles Schwab,
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 5: who actually I have a lot of respect for, but
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 5: is a long-term strong Republican, and Palantir, which is.
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: Oh my God.
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 5: So in answer to your question, do I care? I
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 5: want us to be the best place to have a business.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 5: I want it to be the best place to start
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 5: and grow a business. And I'll do any, I will,
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 5: if you listen to what I'm saying, everything I'm saying
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 5: includes the prosperity part of shared prosperity. And I will
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 5: be a dog about that. And I want to make
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 5: the point we are going to, everything I'm saying is
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 5: we're going to support businesses because that's where we get employment.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 5: And that's how the state grows. And we're part of,
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 5: we're the place that imagines and builds the future.
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 4: So let's talk about Hollywood for a second. And thank
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 4: you for your time.
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: I think we've gone a little over, but.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 5: Have we? You've been very prolix, I noticed.
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 3: What am I?
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 5: Prolix.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 3: Prolix?
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 4: What's prolix mean?
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 5: I'm kidding. It's talkative.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 4: Oh, I've been talking?
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 2: I feel like, I don't know.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 4: Am I talking too much?
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 5: No, I'm just giving you a hard time.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: Okay, thanks.
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 4: Thanks for saying that. So on Hollywood, speaking of what
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 4: has made California powerful and a beacon of our economy
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 4: and our culture, we've seen jobs flee from LA. We've
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 4: seen them flee from California. They've gone to other states.
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 4: They've gone to other countries. It is outrageous to me
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 4: that American film and TV studios find it more affordable
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 4: to shoot in London than they do in Los Angeles.
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 4: We've just increased the tax breaks and they're trying to
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 4: do some reforms. What would you do both sort of
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 4: as a leader with the power to convene and on
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 4: a policy level to ensure that California remains the home
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 4: of film and TV production?
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 5: So let me say, I agree with your premise. This
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 5: is a critical industry for this state and this city. Absolutely.
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 5: And people are not out competing us by being better.
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 5: They're out competing us by buying the business. And that
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 5: can't happen. And so I've said, look, first of all,
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 5: one of the things that makes me feel better is
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 5: the tax credits that we give for every dollar, we
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 5: get back a dollar and 14 cents. So this is
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 5: not like a cost. This is actually an investment that
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 5: returns a pretty darn good investment to the state of California.
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 5: And I think this is a critical industry for us.
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 5: So I don't want us to lose because other people
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 5: are giving more tax credits than we are. And therefore,
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 5: we lose all of the once we've lost this ecosystem,
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 5: which is the best in the world by far. We're
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 5: not getting back. It's way harder to rebuild a business
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 5: than to continue a business. Just I mean, that's just true.
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 5: And so I think it's really critical that we support
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 5: it through the tax credits. Secondly, I want to make
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 5: sure that there aren't regulations in this city. and this
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 5: state that make it hard to shoot production. And particularly
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 5: for small productions, I want to make sure that there
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 5: aren't regulations about, you know, how you're supposed to do
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 5: it and all the things you're supposed to do before
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 5: and that are very expensive. That means you can't do
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 5: it here. I want to make sure that people can
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 5: compete here fairly because we're going to win. And we
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 5: have to, you know, you were saying, you know, am
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 5: I worried about business leaving? I want our businesses to win.
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 5: I am competitive, John. I am on Team California. That's
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 5: the team I'm on. I want to win and I
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 5: want to win as a team and I want to
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 5: have it so that we sit here and go, this
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 5: is how you're supposed to live. Really smart people working
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 5: their ass off. And let me say this. I don't
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 5: think everybody who works in sort of the high flying
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 5: fancy jobs knows this. The people who work at low
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 5: paid jobs work their ass off. They kill themselves for
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 5: very low wages. They are very skilled. They are very sincere, hardworking,
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 5: you know, high integrity people. Seriously. And so I'm not
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 5: joking about it. When I say I'm on Team California,
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 5: I'm really on Team California. But everybody's on the team.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 5: And certainly the entertainment industry is absolutely on the team.
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 5: So I'm going to fight like hell to make sure
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 5: that they can succeed and that they can stay here
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 5: and help build the state that we want.
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 4: Last question, because I do want to touch on it
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 4: because I think it does matter to people. And you spent.
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 4: Like $ 147 million so far of your own money on
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 4: this race.
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 5: You're watching it closer than I am.
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 4: Well, I hope somebody should be watching.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 5: That's a lot of money.
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 4: $ 120 million on ads. You know, you have put yourself
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 4: near the top of the field, but when Swalwell drops out,
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 4: a lot of people that support him seem to have
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 4: gone to other candidates like Becerra. You sort of stay there.
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 4: It's not about the polls. There does seem to be
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 4: a reluctance to see someone who is using their personal
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 4: fortune to try to buy their way into name recognition
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 4: and into politics. And there's something ugly about that in
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 4: a democracy. And even if you view yourself as someone
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 4: who would be a great governor and so therefore are
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 4: willing to pay that expense, you have to see it
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 4: as a system that that rewards people that made vast
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 4: sums of money, often in unsavory ways, including yourself, who
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 4: can then turn around and try to kind of paint
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 4: themselves in another way for the public. What is your
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 4: response to people who feel that sense of discomfort with
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 4: a billionaire running for office?
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 5: Look, I think there are two things you're talking about.
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 5: One is the one you're talking about, which is just
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 5: money and politics. And the other one is how people
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 5: feel about billionaires. Because it's both. So let's start with
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 5: the easy one. People are skeptical of billionaires. Me too.
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 5: We've seen people be incredibly arrogant, selfish, self-interested, obnoxious, you know, unfeeling. Yes,
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 5: I agree. I'm skeptical too. And it's also true that
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 5: the way that money works in American politics is completely
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 5: out of control and has been at least since Citizens
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 5: United in 2011. But it's also true that right now,
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 5: the way this system works is through money. It's just
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 5: through money from big corporations who are protecting their bottom lines.
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 5: It's through billionaires who absolutely don't want to pay tax.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 5: And they are absolutely willing to support, including people from Palantir,
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 5: including people from all the companies we were talking about,
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 5: even though they aren't here anymore. They're willing to support
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 5: people who promise they'll never tax them. So the idea
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 5: that somehow We have this democratic system that exists and
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 5: everybody has a, it's not true. And the question is,
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 5: do we need someone in this system who's willing to
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 5: go after the corporate special interests that actually run this state,
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 5: which is why they're coming after me because they like
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 5: it and their profits are based on their control of
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 5: this state. I don't know if you saw it, but
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 5: I think yesterday in committee in Sacramento, the head of WUSPA,
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 5: the Western States Petroleum Association, said he thought it was
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 5: the fiduciary duty of oil companies to take advantage of
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 5: the Iran war and gouge Californians as much as possible.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 5: So in answer to your question, do I think somebody
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 5: has to take on these corporate special interests? Do I
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 5: think somebody has to stand up for working people against billionaires?
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 5: I do. And if there was someone else doing it,
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 5: I would be fine. But if you actually want to
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 5: change something, sometimes you have to change it. And You know,
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 5: they are spending tens of millions of dollars against me
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 5: because they think I'm sincere too. And I am. And
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 5: so do I think that that's something that needs to
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 5: be done? I do. And if someone else were doing it,
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 5: I'd be fine. Really, I'd go back and I asked
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 5: a bunch of people if they'd do this before I
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 5: decided to do it.
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 4: You don't think Katie Porter's willing to take on special interests?
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 4: You don't think? Mahan is taking on special interests. I
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 4: think there are other people in the race.
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 5: Do I think Matt Mahan is taking on?
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 2: Are you serious?
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 4: Or Becerra is taking on the interest. Well, he's a reformer,
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 4: maybe not taking on the special interest. I'm asking you.
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 5: He's taking money from the oil companies. He's taking money
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 5: from the people who are against single payer. No, he isn't.
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 2: That is clear.
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 4: They're participating in a system that's broken. They're not billionaires, right?
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 3: I agree the system is fucked up.
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 5: But you're asking, are we going to change the system?
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 5: And I'm saying, well, the people who you're projecting... It's
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 5: like Katie Porter.
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 4: You don't think Katie Porter is hostile? I mean, if
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 4: she were doing better in the polls, they'd probably be
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 4: spending more against her too, right? I mean, she's hostile
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 4: to special interests, but she doesn't have your money to
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 4: get ads up, right? That's a real thing.
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 5: So the question is, can someone win and do this?
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 5: That is the actual question, John. Not can someone be good-hearted?
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 5: There are lots of good-hearted people who I would be
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 5: happy if they won. The question is, can someone actually
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 5: do this? And as you pointed out, for a while, apparently,
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 5: Eric Swalwell was leading in the polls. And Eric Swalwell, it's,
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 5: I mean, it turned out that there were, you know,
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 5: bigger issues, but all along there was no question that
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 5: he was chuckling to every interest in this state. That
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 5: was his goal. And he, you know, he, and they
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 5: were thrilled and, and he was in the lead. So
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 5: when you talk about, is there someone who will take
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 5: on the special interest? You know, I think to describe it,
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 5: Javier Becerra is a reformer. I'm sorry. Did I say that?
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 5: If I did, I'm just saying someone has to do
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 5: this job and, you know, actually do it not try
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 5: to do it not you know give it a nice
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 5: college try and then go go off and you know
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 5: play pinochle somebody has to actually do the job and
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 5: that's what i'm trying to do really hard.
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 4: Tom steyer this is a great conversation thanks for talking
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 4: to me really appreciate it i miss long.
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: Island that's our show for today thanks to tom steyer
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: for coming on i'll be back in the feed on
• 1:37:52
  Speaker 1: sunday with a conversation with senator rafael warner bye everyone
• 1:37:57
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• 1:37:59
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• 1:38:02
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• 1:38:12
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