Latest / This Week in Westchester: The Podcast / Westchester, Explained 14: Exploring Juneteenth with Historian Joyce Cole

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Westchester, Explained 14: Exploring Juneteenth with Historian Joyce Cole · This Week in Westchester: The Podcast

0:06
SPEAKER_00: Hi Westchester.
0:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm Westchester County Government Communications Director Catherine Chaffee.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: And as an extension of This Week in Westchester, the podcast, we welcome you to Westchester Explained.
0:17
SPEAKER_00: In this episode, we explore the history, meaning, and continued relevance of Juneteenth with local historian Joyce Cole.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: From the delayed enforcement of emancipation in Texas to the stories of freedom and citizenship that followed.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: We examine why Juneteenth is an American holiday that belongs to all of us.
0:37
SPEAKER_00: We also connect this national story to Westchester County, highlighting local Civil War history, New York's own abolition legacy, and ways communities across our region continue to commemorate the ongoing pursuit of liberty and equality.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: Join us as we reflect on our shared history, what Juneteenth teaches us about the American experience, and why it matters to Westchester residents.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: Because this is Westchester explained.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: So let's begin.
1:06
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so we have a returning guest to the podcast today, which is very exciting.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: Joyce Cole is back, the Austin Village Historian, and also a member of the Westchester County Department of Emergency Services, which I always have to throw in there as well.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, but you're here today to talk about something really exciting.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: Uh, Juneteenth, the everybody holiday.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: Explain to me why this is the everybody holiday.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: Juneteenth is the everybody holiday because we were all involved.
1:38
SPEAKER_01: This is out of an American struggle.
1:41
SPEAKER_01: So we start with the 250th.
1:43
SPEAKER_01: We're all celebrating the country right now, coming up on 250 years.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: But something happened in that 250 years.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: Black people were present, black people fought.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: But what the preamble of the Declaration of Independence says we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, and that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: But that didn't include everyone.
2:10
SPEAKER_01: Right.
2:10
SPEAKER_01: So there was freedom and liberty delayed.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: So the Civil War answers, makes the country answer that question, that one looming question from the Declaration of Independence is those that were not freed in 1776, and the Civil War is going to answer that question with the war.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: And the result is Juneteenth.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: So for those people like myself who did not grow up learning about Juneteenth, they did not teach it in the New York State public schools in the 90s.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, what is it?
2:45
SPEAKER_01: So Juneteenth, we are commemorating the moment in Galveston, Texas, two and a half years after the signing of the Emancipation Proclamation of the enslaved people being told in Galveston, Texas that they are free.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: So we all learned in school about the Emancipation Proclamation and Abraham Lincoln, but we're not told of what actually happened.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: That document was the beginning of a process.
3:10
SPEAKER_01: Just like when we just going back, I love going back to the 250th, when we talk about the Declaration of Independence, that was the beginning of a process.
3:18
SPEAKER_01: To let everyone know?
3:20
SPEAKER_01: Of the beginning of the process for our country, because we needed the Constitution to actually be organized into the country that we know today.
3:26
SPEAKER_01: So the Emancipation Proclamation was the beginning of a process because it actually didn't free us until 1865, and it was the ratification of the 13th Amendment that actually freed everyone.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: But we are celebrating the one moment when the last were to know that they were free in Texas.
3:45
SPEAKER_00: So what took them so long to learn that they were free?
3:49
SPEAKER_00: Or at least that's that's a 2026 sort of view of it.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: Right, because we're so used to having Instagram and knowing everything in just a minute, but that information had to be um the Emancipation Proclamation didn't actually free that many people because it was in the Confederate States.
4:07
SPEAKER_01: And if there was no federal army there, the Union Army to enforce it, there's nothing there.
4:14
SPEAKER_01: Right.
4:14
SPEAKER_01: So we needed the enforcement of the Emancipation Proclamation by the Union Army to occupy.
4:22
SPEAKER_01: So it when they went to occupy Galveston, Texas, that's when they enforced the Emancipation Proclamation through an executive order number three.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: And I'd like to share that with you.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: Please do.
4:35
SPEAKER_01: A lot of people don't know that there was this executive order that was read off, and a lot of people during their celebrations read executive order number three.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: And it says, the people of Texas are informed that in accordance with the proclamation from the executive of the United States, all slaves are free.
4:53
SPEAKER_01: This involves an absolute equality of personal rights and rights of property between former masters and slaves.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: And the connection heretofore existing between them becomes that between employer and hired labor.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: The freedmen were advised to remain quietly at their present homes and work for wages.
5:13
SPEAKER_01: They are informed that they will not be allowed to collect at military posts and that they will not be supported in idolist idleness either there or elsewhere by order of Major General Granger.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: But it was um actually the wording was crafted by a major F.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: W.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: Emery, and he's very interesting to study because he was an abolitionist.
5:36
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: And Granger was not.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: And he gets a lot of the credit for that um for the general order, because the mate, the um, the major, the generals were able to write these orders when they were governing over where they were, and he was in Texas.
5:54
SPEAKER_01: But he didn't have anything to do with it.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: It was actually F.
5:56
SPEAKER_01: W.
5:56
SPEAKER_01: Emory.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: So so this order is read, and it basically tells those, uh, it tells people who are enslaved to basically stay where you are, but start expecting to be paid.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: It's a very nuanced and it's so interesting to study.
6:15
SPEAKER_01: So yes, it does tell them that.
6:16
SPEAKER_01: And it's not read in this grand way that people think on a balcony.
6:20
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's like very emotional moments.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: Right.
6:24
SPEAKER_01: It was passed around in so many different forms.
6:27
SPEAKER_01: Word of mouth is always the best, but it was in the newspaper.
6:31
SPEAKER_01: Uh, it was taken to different um areas, given to um plantation owners, former enslavers, um, to enforce this document.
6:42
SPEAKER_01: And yes, they were expected, and it was written in there for them to stay where they were quietly, because remember, I said this as a process.
6:50
SPEAKER_01: People were freed before this moment in different states.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: For instance, New York was we're coming up on abolition commemoration day in New York, which was 1827.
7:00
SPEAKER_01: This is way before 1865.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: But they saw what it was like to free with no plan of, okay, where do these people go?
7:09
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: They didn't have their own property, they weren't allowed to, um, they had no autonomy.
7:15
SPEAKER_01: So what do you do?
7:16
SPEAKER_01: They have nothing to go to.
7:17
SPEAKER_01: So while the government's trying to figure out, because this is before they set up the Freedmen's Bureau to help navigate this uh moment for these thousands of newly freed people, they needed to figure out a plan.
7:31
SPEAKER_01: So they thought it was best to say, look, stay where you are.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: They have to pay you, but stay where you are until we figure this out.
7:38
SPEAKER_01: So that's the easiest way to explain that.
7:40
SPEAKER_01: And that's what I tell everyone.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: It's this is why it's an everybody holiday.
7:45
SPEAKER_01: We are in the um business of celebrating independence.
7:48
SPEAKER_01: We all have a 4th of July.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: This moment is for the enslaved, their 4th of July delayed.
7:54
SPEAKER_01: Um it's not a cultural holiday, it's not Black History Month, it's different.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: It's an independence day of Americans.
8:03
SPEAKER_01: So that's why we all celebrate it.
8:05
SPEAKER_01: And it was many of our great-grandfathers that were in the Civil War, that fought for this freedom, including black and white and others that fought for this freedom.
8:16
SPEAKER_01: So it wasn't just some of us, it was all of us.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: So, in practical terms, and I know you've done an incredible amount of research on this, this document comes into Texas.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: It's it's read, it's given to plantation owners, it's spread around.
8:31
SPEAKER_00: Practically, like in the weeks and the days that followed.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
8:35
SPEAKER_00: What did the Texas look like?
8:37
SPEAKER_00: I mean, what was happening on the ground?
8:39
SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad you asked that question.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: It's so it's such an interesting war is very interesting to study, but you have to imagine it just went through war.
8:48
SPEAKER_01: It looks terrible.
8:49
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: They're trying to rebuild it at this point.
8:52
SPEAKER_01: You know, they're forcing the Confederate out, the Union is coming in, they're trying to pull the state back together and give people back property.
9:02
SPEAKER_01: They're trying to settle these newly um freed people.
9:05
SPEAKER_01: It's chaotic.
9:06
SPEAKER_01: So they're trying to uh maintain order, law and order in this part of the country while freeing people at the same time and trying to figure out a way to help them sustain themselves when they haven't been able to.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: But there's something so ironic in here.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: It says they wouldn't support them in idleness either.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: They have never been idle.
9:26
SPEAKER_01: Right.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: Strange things to put in there.
9:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:30
SPEAKER_01: So they've never been idle.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: Uh so I spent a great deal of time reading slave narratives of that period because there was a study done.
9:39
SPEAKER_01: It was a collection done, a WPA program as part of the New Deal, where they captured people that lived in that time and what it was like the moment they found out they were free.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: And I remember one of the men saying, Yeah, but we always knew how to do everything.
9:55
SPEAKER_01: They didn't know how to do everything because we did it.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: We just didn't have what we thought we'd be rich, like they got rich, but that didn't happen.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: So it was really interesting to be.
10:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, to listen.
10:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's it's a very uh hard time.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: It's joyous and it's hard because I can't even imagine having no agency to just someone telling you one day you're free, but what does that mean?
10:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, so there are some things people did at that moment.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: There are some people that were so excited because it during the time of enslavement, families were broken and separated.
10:28
SPEAKER_01: There were people that just left.
10:29
SPEAKER_01: They were like, I don't know where I'm going, but I'm gonna find my family.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: And there are people that's like, I can get out of here, and they just left with nowhere to go.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: They just said, We're I'm just gonna walk because I can.
10:39
SPEAKER_00: But now, did the government support them doing that, or was there punishment for that?
10:44
SPEAKER_01: So it's very um, it's very hard to say depending on where you were.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: So it was the idea was for you to stay where you were, but there were a lot of people that left.
10:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, some people went and took cover under the union.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: They told them not to, but a lot of times they did still help, depending on who the person was.
11:03
SPEAKER_01: Um so and then there were people that did not want to abide by the rule.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: So it depends on who they ran into, right?
11:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh what kind of trouble or not.
11:11
SPEAKER_01: Uh but I think at that moment for them it was like we've been living under this condition that I'm willing to do what I have to do to be free.
11:19
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
11:19
SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, I could see that for sure.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
11:23
SPEAKER_00: So you know, we talked about this a little bit in the beginning.
11:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, public schools did not always teach Juneteenth.
11:31
SPEAKER_00: What happened?
11:32
SPEAKER_00: How did things change?
11:33
SPEAKER_00: And now it's part of the curriculum.
11:34
SPEAKER_00: We have the day off, you know.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: How did that happen?
11:37
SPEAKER_01: So I didn't learn it either in school.
11:40
SPEAKER_01: I have to be totally transparent.
11:42
SPEAKER_01: I believe after Joy George Floyd, okay, there was a reckoning of all kinds of history and facing um the stain that was still left on the country.
11:54
SPEAKER_01: And we started looking at history different and what we were not being told.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: And ironically, in the state of New York, um, the same day that Juneteenth went into law, so did um Abolition Commemoration Day for New York State go into law.
12:11
SPEAKER_01: So I just have to throw this in.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: Abolition Commemoration Day is in July.
12:16
SPEAKER_01: The enslaved in New York's actual day is July 4th.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:21
SPEAKER_01: July 4th, 1827 is when slavery was abolished in New York.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: So that commemoration day is coming up.
12:28
SPEAKER_01: So, like I said, it's so nuanced.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: And so we celebrate Juneteenth, and that was Galveston, Texas.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: But we celebrate 1865 because we're not free until everyone was free.
12:37
SPEAKER_01: And in 1865, everyone was free.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: Do you know what's that was crazy to me?
12:42
SPEAKER_00: It's not that long ago.
12:43
SPEAKER_00: No, it's not.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: It's not that long ago at all.
12:46
SPEAKER_01: It's not.
12:47
SPEAKER_01: It's not that long ago.
12:49
SPEAKER_01: And it's so fresh, and that's why people get so why are we still talking about it?
12:52
SPEAKER_01: Of course we talk about it.
12:55
SPEAKER_00: 1865 is like five minutes ago.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's really it's crazy.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: So if you talk about the Civil War and we talk about what happened there, we can't stop the conversation and it ended.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: This is a direct result.
13:08
SPEAKER_01: Because they were fighting over keeping the union intact and the issue of slavery.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: And this addressed it.
13:17
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
13:18
SPEAKER_00: It's it's just it's it's just unbelievable to me that if one, it wasn't that long ago, and two, that so many of us just learned about it, you know, recently.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: Recently.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: And so the symbolism and the colors, I know they all have meaning.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: Can you explain it all to us?
13:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:35
SPEAKER_01: So a lot of people use two flags.
13:37
SPEAKER_01: It's the um so we're gonna talk about the one flag, the red, white, and the blue.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: Flag.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: It was created by Ben Haith, created the Juneteenth flag.
13:46
SPEAKER_01: And he is, I believe, I have to double check, but he's the founder of one of the Juneteenth councils.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: And he decided what the colors are red, white, and blue because they represent who we are, Americans.
13:59
SPEAKER_01: And then he went into the symbolism um further with the lone star in the arc, the new horizon, that we're getting a new start.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I celebrate Juneteenth as well as the community and when I'm teaching out red, white, and blue, because that's who we are.
14:14
SPEAKER_00: It reminds me of how the county executive always says that it's American history, and American history is complicated.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: It is.
14:21
SPEAKER_00: Complicated.
14:22
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, for Juneteenth, are there certain like how do you celebrate Juneteenth?
14:30
SPEAKER_01: So I celebrate Juneteenth in a few different ways.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: Uh, what I'll be doing in in our community, which is Austin, um, I'm pulling a lot of the Civil War veterans that represented Austin on the Union side and talking about why they went to fight.
14:44
SPEAKER_01: Because we can't talk about Juneteenth without talking about the war and the people that went to enforce the order.
14:50
SPEAKER_01: Right.
14:51
SPEAKER_01: Uh, so I do that with the community.
14:54
SPEAKER_01: Uh, some of the early celebrations we mimic what they did the first Juneteenth.
14:59
SPEAKER_01: And that is with clothing dressing your best.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: And that was because during the time of enslavement, they weren't allowed to have clothes.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: They were issued clothing that wasn't nice and not much.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: So this is the one time that they had the ability to show themselves and present themselves the way they felt they wanted to.
15:17
SPEAKER_01: And that is just beautiful.
15:18
SPEAKER_01: That's beautiful.
15:19
SPEAKER_01: And music, of course, we all celebrate with music and food, cooking the foods that they wanted to.
15:26
SPEAKER_01: But one thing that was pretty important, and I think the county executive will love this, is the one thing that they had was black men were at that time allowed to vote.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: And they had many of the local politicians come in and talk to them about issues because the first time they had rights and ability to vote for the people that are going to represent them.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: It's amazing.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: So I try to mimic as much as I can the first Juneteenth.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, but in Austin, we're also doing a ceremony called the Telling.
15:54
SPEAKER_01: And the Telling was created by April Hampton in Alabama of JTC experiences, and it is um modeled after the Jewish Seder.
16:04
SPEAKER_01: And in conjunction with the Jewish community, they have taken all these elements that represent um the enslaved experience with Negro spirituals and singing, and it's an entire ceremony dedicated for the commemoration of Juneteenth.
16:21
SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: In your research, um, what is the one thing that you've learned about Juneteenth that surprised you the most?
16:30
SPEAKER_01: I would say the one thing that surprised me the most is reading the entire executive order.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: Usually when you go someone, they go somewhere, they stop at all slaves are free.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:42
SPEAKER_01: And you have to read further to find out what they're telling you.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: Because if you dissect it and take it apart, Emory was actually doing some really um creative things as an abolitionist because he was actually told by uh General Sherman to not say certain things.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, and he was softening the words.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: What were those things that he was told to say?
17:04
SPEAKER_01: So he would tell them that all slaves are free.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: This involves absolute equality of personal rights.
17:09
SPEAKER_01: And he says, You don't say that they're all free.
17:12
SPEAKER_01: He kept that in there.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: It was in quotes before.
17:14
SPEAKER_01: He took it out of quotes, and then he's telling them that they can stay, but you should stay quietly.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: They said, just stay where you are.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: He said, quietly stay where you are, because he knew that he just wanted to free them, but there had to be order in order to do it well and effectively.
17:29
SPEAKER_01: So reading the entire um the entire order and saying work for wages, and I actually have the work agreement for my family right out of enslavement.
17:39
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: And I saw what they were getting paid.
17:41
SPEAKER_01: Some people are actually getting money, but some were getting paid in barrels of corn.
17:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, so looking at a direct result of this order, but in another state, my state was North Carolina, it's just learning um that it's not a distant holiday, it's connected to people in our community.
17:59
SPEAKER_01: So it's the people in my community that fought for it.
18:02
SPEAKER_01: It's the people that were descendants of the people that this affected directly.
18:07
SPEAKER_01: Uh so that shocked me the most, was that.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: Can you tell me a little bit more about your family history with that?
18:13
SPEAKER_00: That's fascinating to me.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so my family were um enslaved in one side of my family in North Carolina, Bertie County.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: Uh, after emancipation, they stayed where they were and became sharecroppers on that land.
18:28
SPEAKER_01: But immediately they were given work agreements by the enslaver who actually I carry his name.
18:33
SPEAKER_01: His name was Whitnell Shirock.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm Joy Shirock Cole.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: Um, and ironically, he had no sons, so his name lives through us.
18:41
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
18:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so he did pay wages, and he was apparently a more fair man.
18:47
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people tried to flock to his farm because he was actually paying wages.
18:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I got to see how much my great-great-grandfather was being paid um now when I saw his books before when they were enslaved, what he would issue to them, but now they're being paid.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: And that's when I found out my grandmother loved a can of whiskey at the end of the day.
19:10
SPEAKER_01: I was able to see it in a book.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: Where did you find the books?
19:13
SPEAKER_01: So a lot of times they're on collection, and it was on collection in North Carolina archives.
19:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I was able to see right after, and I was I was able to see that my family fought for their own freedom.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: They were self-emancipating.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: So it must be so empowering.
19:29
SPEAKER_01: It is because we're part of the American story.
19:32
unknown: Right.
19:33
SPEAKER_00: I feel like I'm getting all choked in like listening to this.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, is it, you know, knowing like every day you sign your name, you write your name.
19:42
SPEAKER_00: Is it is it strange?
19:45
SPEAKER_00: Is it is it what does it feel like to know where your last name came from?
19:49
SPEAKER_01: It's empowering.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, whatever history is attached to it, I know it.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: There is so much power in knowing and not being in the dark and being told for so many years that your people were not documented, that they did not matter, to see them on a piece of paper and to know that she had her whiskey and it was documented.
20:09
SPEAKER_01: I got to see it.
20:11
SPEAKER_01: And so it's it's empowering.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: It's so it makes me feel very American that I know people that look like me, that fought in the revolution, that people that look like me, including my family members that I can name by name, that fought for this very moment.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: It's empowering.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: And now to come, you know, because I know you grew up in Austin, so to come full circle and know that kids of of all colors and all backgrounds and everything are being taught these lessons in the Austin public schools.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: What does that feel like?
20:42
SPEAKER_01: It feels great.
20:43
SPEAKER_01: And how I've been telling them, especially um newcomers to the country, this is your country too.
20:49
SPEAKER_01: You celebrate the 4th of July.
20:51
SPEAKER_01: So you celebrate this day of independence as well.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: And I tell them, they're like, How do I connect?
20:55
SPEAKER_01: It's always how you connect.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: Right.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: Everybody wants to feel connected.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: So I teach them about the people in the community that fought, if they lived on their street, if they have the last name of one of their friends.
21:06
SPEAKER_01: So I try to help them connect to the history.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: That's how you make people interested.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: Right.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: Where do I fit?
21:12
SPEAKER_01: How does this apply to me?
21:13
SPEAKER_01: So this applies to you because you're able to come into a country that allows you to be free.
21:19
SPEAKER_01: And so every time we have an opportunity to celebrate freedom, we're gonna celebrate it.
21:24
SPEAKER_01: And that is inclusive of us all.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: Why is the holiday in July not celebrated as much as Juneteenth?
21:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh the I mean for New York abolition.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
21:36
SPEAKER_01: So it was overshadowed by Juneteenth.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: Everyone was excited about that.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because again, it was literally the same day.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: That's wild.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: I didn't think I knew that.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: So I remember when Juneteenth, I mean, this is again, this is recently that Juneteenth became a holiday and was brought to your point.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: It it it did seem like it happened right after George Floyd.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: And I guess to your point, the the July holiday got a little overshadowed.
22:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:01
SPEAKER_01: But it's also different states had different um liberation days.
22:05
SPEAKER_01: So in New York, this will be very um personal for us.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: My family wasn't enslaved in New York, but still a liberation day that I'm gonna celebrate.
22:13
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
22:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh so they're July 4th.
22:15
SPEAKER_01: So I think that's why.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we didn't know about Juneteenth.
22:18
SPEAKER_01: So we're just a lot of people are just finding out that there were enslaved people in New York.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: So this is all new concepts to people, and we're gonna give ourselves some grace for not knowing, but give a like pat on the back that we're willing to open our hearts to find out.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:33
SPEAKER_00: We didn't know, but we're learning now, and we're going to celebrate all of it.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: All of it.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
22:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, anything else you want to share with us about Juneteenth and about your personal story relating to it?
22:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just I love that everyone is willing to learn about it.
22:51
SPEAKER_01: And what I want people to take away with it is don't feel like it's a black holiday.
22:55
SPEAKER_01: It's not, it's a liberation holiday.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: It's an all of us holiday.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: It's an opportunity for us to go back and learn about that period in history where we were fighting for a better America and that we were living up to the ideals of 1776.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: So I want everyone to look at it like that, and it's for all of us, not just for a subgroup, but all of us Americans.
23:18
SPEAKER_00: And I think there's also a lot we could take from it today to continue the fight for a better, a better country.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: Better country.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
23:28
SPEAKER_00: We're just trying our best here.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: Trying our best.
23:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:31
SPEAKER_00: It's it's um, it's a beautiful holiday, and and to your point, I didn't know about it growing up.
23:36
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know about it until fairly recently.
23:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I love it and I'm here for it.
23:42
SPEAKER_00: So have your red foods red.
23:45
SPEAKER_00: My son always tells me we have to eat something red.
23:47
SPEAKER_01: Eat something red for the blood that was shed on that day, and that wasn't just for black people.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: It was who whoever shed blood for the cause during the Civil War.
23:56
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna have red foods for that.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna have song, we're gonna have reflection, and we're gonna think about how we're gonna just make a better place for all of us to live up to those ideals of 1776.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
24:09
SPEAKER_00: All right.
24:09
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: Appreciate you coming in as always.
24:12
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: And uh Juneteenth, here we come.
24:15
SPEAKER_01: Happy Juneteenth, everyone.