Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Lesley Groff And The Transcript From Her Epstein Related Trip to Congress (Part 22) (7/16/26)

Transcript

Lesley Groff And The Transcript From Her Epstein Related Trip to Congress (Part 22) (7/16/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to dive right
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: back into the Leslie Groff interview with Congress. Question Okay,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: you spoke earlier about some elements of your relationship with
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein's estate. I just want to get some clarity
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: for the record on the nature of that. You mentioned
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: that mister Epstein had a fund set up to pay
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: attorney fees, but that ended when he died. Is that accurate? Answer? Yes,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: that's accurate. Question okay. How long was the fund in existence? Answer? Oh,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Question okay. Answer I only found out
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: about it when I needed money to hire an attorney.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Question and when did that happen? Answer in July of
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, Probably question after he was arrested. Answer yes,
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: question okay, And do you know was that fund available
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: to anyone in mister Epstein's staff. What was the category
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: of people who are eligible to receive money? Answer? I
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: really don't know. I believe it was staff, but I
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: don't know if there were other people involved or on
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: that plan as well. Well. Question okay, how did you
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: become aware of the existence of that fund? Answer? My attorneys.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Question your attorneys became aware of that? Answer correct question okay.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: And is it the case that after his death your
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: attorneys would submit invoices to the estate. Is that what
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: you testified earlier? Answer correct question, according to the same
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: terms of the fund that had existed before. Answer that
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: had existed before. I didn't know about the fund. Question
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: I mean the fund before he died? Answer, oh, yeah,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: before he died. Yes, they would submit the invoices. Question
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: to the estate. Answer to the estate. Question, So, other
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: than those attorney fee reimbursements and the settlement as a
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: result of the claim against the estate, have you received
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: any money from mister Epstein's estate answer other than the
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: one we already discussed question correct answer, no question. And
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: are you entitled to any compensation from that estate in
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: your understanding? Answer no question, okay. Do you currently hold
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: any interest or stake in mister Epstein's state Answer no question.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: And have you had any contact with mister Epstein's state
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: administrators or their representatives since mister Epstein's death? Answer no question, okay.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Did you have any contact with Darren Endyke or Richard
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Kahn in the preparation for their depositions before the committee
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: or your interview before the committee. Answer, no question. When's
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: the last time that you spoke with them? If you
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: recall miss Groff, it would be when he went to jail.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Mister Epstein went to jail probably right after that question.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Do you recall the context of that discussion? Groff? I
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: think everybody was surprised and worried, but I don't recall
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: anything offhand. Question. I've got a few questions about arranged marriages.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: We know that mister Epstein arranged marriages between American women
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: that he sexually abused and foreign women who are trying
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: to stay in the country. Did you ever have any
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: role in arranging marriages between women connected to mister Epstein,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Miss Groff? No backner. Can I have one second when
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: you say anything to do with you? Can? Can you
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: just explain? Groff? Yeah, I do know that there's an
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: email that exists. I directed excuse me, I didn't direct.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Mister Epstein directed me to his driver Jojo, pick up
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: redacted and are adacted person and go to the marriage
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: place or whatever. But no one ever spoke to me
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: about it. I didn't really know what was going on.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: It really wasn't until after he went to jail that
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: it came to light to me. Question Got it so,
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: at the time you were not aware of mister Epstein
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: arranging marriages between women connected to him. Correct answer That
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: is correct. Question, but you're aware of him doing it now?
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Answer now, I am yes. Question. Did you ever provide
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: false information to substantiate a marriage between women connected to
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein? Answer no question. Did you ever have knowledge
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: of anyone else providing information excuse me, providing false information
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: to substantiate a marriage between women connected to mister Epstein?
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: Answer no question. You've been asked a few times about
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: the hairdresser Frederick Forcai. I believe you said you're not
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: aware of mister Epstein ever introducing minor girls or young
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: women to him for the purpose of engaging in sexual activity.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Correct answer, yes, correct question, and also that you are
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: not otherwise aware of sexual abuse allegations against mister Focai.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Correct answer correct. Mister Bockner, you mean at the time
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: as well? Right back then? Correct answer or question correct?
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Thank you, mister Bockner. Majority Exhibit Jay was mark for identification.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: I'd like to introduce as minority Exhibit Jay. This email
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: from you to mister Epstein from November eighteenth, twenty ten.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: The subject line is Frederick Fokai. The Bates number is
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: EFTA zero two four one four three seven eight. Question.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: In the email, you say quote Frederick Fokai just texted
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: me asking if he can use the massage room today
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: at ten am with his messuse Do you remember this
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: email at all? Answer? I do not. Question. Is this
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: something that mister Fokai would do generally, ask to use
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: the massage room? Answer? This is like seeing it for
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: the first time. I don't recall mister Fokai asking to
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: use the massage room. Question sure, but separate from the email,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: do you have any other memory of mister Forokai asking
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: to do this generally? Answer no question. Is this something
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: that any of the other men in mister Epstein's network
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: would ask to do to use the massage room? Answer
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: no question. Have you had any contact with Glenn Maxwell
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: between mister Epstein's death and her arrest? Graff? No question.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: And since miss Maxwell's arrest, have you had any contact
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: with her or any of her representatives? Graff no question. Okay,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Miss Groff, you said something during your opening statement that
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: I'd like to ask you about you said that the
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: massages that you scheduled were I think I got this
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: down verbatim. I might be off by a word or
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: or to quote just another small part of the elite
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: world I was not from. We have asked you a
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: lot of questions about massages. Our counterparts have asked you
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: a lot of questions about massages. I want to be
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: clear that your testimony is that at no point in
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: the eighteen years that you work for him that you
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: thought that it was strange that he had girls and
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: young women coming over to massage them. Correct, mister Whitcomb,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: objection forum girls, she never really well, continue backner. Do
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: you mean girls miners or do you mean girls? Witcomb?
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: That's what I meant. Question. Let's just say young women
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: for now. Backner, Okay, Groff, No, I did not know
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein had miners coming over to give him a massage. Question.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Let's just say young women. Your testimony is that at
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: no point in the eighteen years that you work for
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: him that you thought it was strange that he had
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: all these young women come in massage. Answer, well, that
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: was only from the beginning two thousand and one to
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: when he went to jail. I didn't know the ages
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: at all. It was a normal part of his day.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: To me, it was like a luxury. I couldn't believe
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: that somebody would pay for you know, do that you
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: know every day? That was a luxury you did once
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: a year. Question do you think that these women were
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: professional messuses? You've used that term a lot. You used
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: it in your opening statement, you used it throughout your testimony.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Did you think that these were professional messuses? Answer? I
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: believe that was what they wanted to do. That was
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: part of something that they did. I don't know if
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: that was their career, but question it was what they
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: wanted to do or it's what they did. Answer I
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: had sometimes people call me and ask if mister Epstein
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: was in town could have a massage. Question So you
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: believe that these young women were professional messuses? Answer? I
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: never met these women, so I didn't know if they
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: were young or how old they were. First of all,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: I thought that that it was just something that he did,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: like going to the gym. Questions So you didn't have
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: a belief either way that they were professional messuses or
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: were not professional messuses? Answer? Well, when you say professional
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: like working for a company, question working for a company
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: or having gone through the requisite training and having whatever
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: license and certification is needed to be a massage therapist
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: in the state of New York. Answer right, I didn't
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: ask questions. The name and phone number was given to me.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: I assume that they were a messuse. Question You were
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: unaware that mister Epstein was exceptionally wealthy correct or you
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: were aware excuse me? Answer yes, question, so he could
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: have afforded the best messuse in New York correct answer sure, question,
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: but instead he had dozens, at least from your perspective,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: of young women, oftentimes different young women massaging them, and
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: that didn't seem abnormal to you. Backner just point of clarification.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: She said she didn't know how old they were. But
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: other than that, go ahead, growth. Yeah, it did not
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: seem odd to me. When I was hired, it was
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: I was told this was just something that he does,
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: and everybody treated it like it was no big deal.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: And I was just told that to keep his calendar
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: and schedule his appointments. So question, So to mister Backner's
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: clarification that you did not know how old they were,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: you did call these young women? Correct answer. I would
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: call and make appointments. Yes. Question Ms Groff, do you
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: think that a fourteen year old sounds the same as
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: a person in their twenties or thirties or forties. Answer
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: It's possible. I don't know. I was not evaluating voices.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Nobody ever sounded like they were underage. Question Okay, we
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: have a couple more questions about mister Epstein's relationship with
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Elon Musk. Were you aware of Epstein having a relationship
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: with Elon Musk? Answer I am aware. No, I mean,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: I'm aware that he went and saw SpaceX. At the time,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: I didn't even know what SpaceX was, so I don't
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know about a relationship with Elon Musk. Question
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: So you were aware at the time of mister Epstein's
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: visit to SpaceX, but not of any relationship between the
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: two of them beyond that. Answer correct. Question Okay. Were
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: you aware of mister Musk ever requesting to visit any
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: of mister ep Stein's properties? Answer no, question okay, and
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: so also, were you aware of mister Musk ever actually
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: visiting any of mister Epstein's properties? Answer no. Question was
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: it just one visit to SpaceX? Answer yes? Question when
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: did that take place. Answer, I don't know twenty fourteen.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Question okay, And do you remember or are thereabouts twenty fourteen? Backner?
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Don't guess, grof Okay, don't guess. I don't backner. Does
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: anybody help graf? I don't know. I really don't know.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Question are you or do you remember whether anybody accompanied
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein on his visit to SpaceX? Answer? I believe
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: some of his traveling assistants went with them. They always
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: went with them. Question okay, answer, but I don't know who.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: Question do you know which of the traveling assistants? Answer right? Question? Okay,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: thank you. Question. I'd like to take a few minutes
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: to ask you some kind of summarizing questions to make
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: sure that the record is clear about your testimony today.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: During the time that you work for mister Epstein, were
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: you ever aware of mister Epstein's sexually abusing minor girls
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: or young women? Answer no. Question. During the time that
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: you work for mister Epstein, were you aware of mister
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Epstein introducing minor girls or young women to other men
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: for the purpose of engaging in sexual activity with those men?
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: Answer no question. During the time that you work for
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein. Were you ever aware of mister Epstein transporting
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: minor girls or young women for the purpose of engaging
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: in sexual activity with them? Answer no. Question during the
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: time that you worked for mister Epstein, were you ever
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: aware of mister Epstein transporting minor girls or young women
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: for the purpose of engaging in sexual activity with them?
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Answer no. Question. You worked for mister Epstein for twenty
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: years some very long hours correct answer it could have been.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: If it was long hours, it was working from home
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: and being flat flexible, so I really appreciated that flexibility.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Question what hours did you work? Groff? What hours did
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: I work? Is started at nine to five? Question I
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: understand that we talked about that earlier. Answer yeah. Question
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: my point is or my question rather, is it fair
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: to say that during those twenty years you put a
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: significant amount of time working for that man nine to five?
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: But also I believe you said once he had a
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: smartphone it was nearly twenty four to seven. Answer yes,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: he would contact me. Question okay, answer he had no boundaries.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Question thank you. And you worked with him at his
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: office at four fifty seven Madison, and then you work
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: with him at his home at ninety seventy first Street.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: Correct answer, Yes, question, so it's fair to say that
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: you had the kind of exposure to a knowledge of
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein in his operation that almost no one else had.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Correct answer. I really don't agree with that. I was
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: making appointments for him. He didn't talk to me, We
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: didn't have discussions. I didn't sit in meetings with him. Question.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: But it's your job not to just know his likes preferences,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: but to anticipate them. You don't think that there's his
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: trust and intimacy in that answer. There was no intimacy.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: He would always give me the directions of what he
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: wanted to happen, make these appointments. He really did keep
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: me on the outside, and he did that on purpose.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: I think he specifically wanted to keep me at arm's length,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: if not more. Question. But he trusted you with information
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: that he did not trust other people with. Correct answer,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: I suppose question, and that was part of your value
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: to him. That's why he bought you a Mercedes Benz
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: and paid for a full time nanny so you wouldn't
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: stop working for him. Right answer. He appreciated, he valued
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: my organizational skills, and that was and that I was responsible. Backner. Sorry,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: just one more point of clarification. He didn't buy a Mercedes.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: He bought a Mercedes, and she used it and then
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: she had to give it back. Question sure, thank you,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: mister Backner. Question is there anyone else in his orbit
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: that had the kind of knowledge of his schedule, his
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: day to day, his likes, his preferences, who he met with,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: who he didn't, who he talked to, who he didn't
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: more than you answer. I would say that all the
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: traveling assistants knew a bunch of his schedule and what
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: was going on. Question better than you answer. I feel
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: like they knew him better than me. Question. So your
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: testimony today is that you did not know that mister
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Epstein was abusing, assaulting, raping, and trafficking minor girls and
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: young women for decades. Correct, Witcomb, I mean I asked
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: an answered for the fiftieth time. Question. The rules of
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: evidence do not apply. Witcomb understood question. Thank you? Please
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: answer the question, Witcomb, But the rules of fairness should.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: And she's here voluntarily she asked and answered this question
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: fifty times. I know I don't have any leeway to
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: direct her or not to answer question. Then she can
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: answer it one more time, Witcomb. She can answer a
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: fifty first time, right Groff, I didn't know question. Thank you,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: Ms Groff. That's all we have. We'll go off the record,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: all right, folks. We're gonna wrap up right now, and
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: then the next episode dealing with the topic, we're going
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: to pick up where we left off. All the information
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: that goes with this episode can be found in the
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: description box.