Latest / Citizen Frame / Xmas Month: Wicked (2024)

Transcript

Xmas Month: Wicked (2024) · Citizen Frame

0:08
There was discord. There was discontent. And back where I come from,
0:13
everybody knows that the best way to bring folks together is to give them a real good enemy.
0:22
If you wanted spies, why wouldn't you just... Why wouldn't you just make them yourself?
0:31
Alphaba. Alphaba. You are talking to the wizard of Oz.
0:40
Read it. Cast a spell. Read it! Alphaba. Don't!
1:23
Hey, buddy, welcome to the last ever Citizen Frame podcast of 2025.
1:30
And the last, yeah, sad, sad, sad, sad, sad, damn, sad times.
1:35
And it's the last episode for Christmas month.
1:40
You guys have asked us to do it, so we are going to oblige.
1:47
We are doing Wicked. And then we're going to start 2026 off the bang with the
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sequel to Wicked, Wicked part two.
1:56
So I think that's, it's nice. As you said, Trevor, it's a nice bridge into the
2:00
new year. Yes. Yeah. Plans in well together.
2:04
And then we might just do some children of the corn. Back to our roots. Fuck with your heads.
2:11
Yeah. We got busy times. We got busy times. In February, we got the new Scream.
2:18
In January, we are going to do The Running Mans. We're going to do, obviously, The Wicked.
2:24
So we're going to start hitting some of the bigger names and start getting back
2:29
to some of the blockbusters.
2:30
Speed and Twisters and all these films. And Children of the Corn.
2:36
Yeah, but we're going to go back to some of our retrospectives and Children
2:39
of the Corn would be a fun one, easy one, because most of them are crap.
2:44
So just bear with us as we kind of build our catalog for next year.
2:48
But it's definitely going to be a busy next year. There's a lot of big titles
2:51
coming up, getting released. It's going to be a fun year for cinema.
2:54
Before we start this, quickly talk about this year in cinema.
2:58
I have to say, I'm sure Trevor, you're with me, some of them.
3:00
I actually have gone to the movies quite a bit this year for the first time in a long time.
3:05
We would see The Housemaid, for example.
3:08
Yeah, two guys going to see an erotic thriller.
3:13
I went for the writing and the plot, you know.
3:19
Don't know about you. Yeah, we'll get to The Housemaid. We'll probably do that one just for good fun.
3:25
It's a batshit crazy film. It's pretty much just a glorified lifetime movie.
3:29
Yeah, it's enjoyable thrice. Yeah, exactly. But we might dive into that.
3:34
But anyways, what I'm saying is, and I've been going to a lot of catalog stuff's
3:38
been coming out, seeing movies for the first time on the big screen that I never
3:42
got to take advantage of when I was younger, or revisiting something on the big screen again,
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Home Alone, Christmas Vacation, that kind of stuff.
3:49
But the new releases, I got to say, it's been a great year from Sinners,
3:54
from Weapons, The Running Man, Put My Cars on the Table when we get to it.
3:58
I think it's a wonderful film.
4:00
And, of course, the one I keep promoting, and I think everyone needs to see, is The Life of Chuck.
4:07
And it's just been a really good year in cinema, especially for horror.
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I think horror is going to get a lot of nods this year.
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And the reason I'm bringing this up is because Wicked, as we're about to talk
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about, there's a gray area with this one.
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And even with the original, there's a very dark tone to Wicked,
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and it deals with a lot of dark, dark topics.
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And it is based on a dark fantasy novel from 1995.
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But that's why I kind of bring up all these films that are going to be nominated.
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So, and Wicked, yes, it's a fantasy musical.
4:46
You want to hide from it or not there's a lot of horror elements in Wicked,
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well I have to say that whenever we were talking about doing it I was like rolling
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my eyes and like saying oh a fucking kids film oh no you know type thing and
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you know not only that a kids sort of fantasy musical,
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and you know I'd seen all the bizarre interviews with the stars Ariana Grande,
5:09
and Cynthia and I was just like I
5:12
was just thinking to myself this is really not going to be my
5:15
thing but i'll do it for a laugh but let's
5:18
just say my opinion on the film itself which
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we'll soon obviously find out is well it
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surprised me well with that note let's just jump into it and see how we feel
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about wicked all right wicked okay directed by john chu john shoes you know
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he's always been a music guy with the step up films jim and the holograms which
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was terrible, I heard, in The Heights.
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So he does a lot of musicals. He's pretty much a good fit for it. He did G.I.
5:47
Joe Retaliation, which I actually kind of enjoyed. I haven't seen it.
5:50
I like the G.I. Joe films. Who stars in that again?
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The Rock. It's the guy that was in- Bruce Willis. Right. Oh,
5:58
no, no. Yeah. No, I haven't seen it. You're thinking of their first G.I.
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Joe. There's two G.I. Joe's.
6:02
Yeah. There's G.I. Joe, The Rise of Cobra, and G.I. Joe Retaliation.
6:06
Yeah, The Rise of Cobra, I'm thinking of. I haven't seen any of them.
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I'm not sure, but it's taken off. Yeah, it's great. Both, I like those films.
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We might get to them someday. All right, so.
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Based on the novel that came out in 1995, the dark fantasy novel called Wicked,
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The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West, written by a man called Gregory McGuire.
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It soon got put into a musical play by Stephen Schwartz.
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And this all came about of a man from 1900, I believe this was written.
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His name was L. Frank Baum. He wrote the original Wizard of Oz.
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It has been done numerous times. Well, a couple of times, I won't say numerous,
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different adaptations of the story.
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We got the original classic from 1939.
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A little backstory. I remember watching Wizard of Oz when I was a kid numerous
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times in the 70s and early 80s.
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As you get older, you kind of walk away from it. It's just the way it goes.
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But I'll tell you what, I have a fond spot for the Wizard of Oz.
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I'm not a fan of musicals, but I do really, really like the original Wizard of Oz.
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Well and so then you
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had The Wizard of Oz and then you had The Wiz
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which is actually quite another fun little take it's a
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based it's all black actors in this one Michael
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Jackson Donna Summer and it's called The Wiz you know that song Ease on Down
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the Road well yeah that's part of The Wiz check it out it's actually pretty
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good and then we have a more of a I can't remember if it was a steampunk version
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called Return to Oz I remember watching it as a kid,
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and I remember it being very dark for a kid's film.
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Frizzia Bok, a young Frizzia Bok,
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playing Dorothy. I remember there's the wheelies and stuff in it. Yes.
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For a kid's film, it's quite dark, and there's an evil witch and stuff.
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I don't think it's the same witch as the 1939 version, but just jumping on the
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1939 version, while it is absolutely iconic, and I have to admit, a fan of it.
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I always liked it and the darkness and the strangeness of it There is actually,
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it's not actually the original There is actually a 1910 film version A silent film version,
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Which, it's only about 15 minutes. But all the elements are there.
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And it's pretty weird and freaky. The scarecrow and all is there.
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And I think it's basically actors in animal costumes and stuff.
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You know, for the likes of Toto and the lion and stuff.
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And I think there's a cow in there as well. Maybe a horse.
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It's quite weird. And you can't really compare it to the 1939 or anything that
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came after. Including this, Wicked.
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You know, because it's basically a different era. And it's a silent short film.
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But it's definitely interesting and certainly a part of film history and worth
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checking out. It's on YouTube.
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It's in 1910. It's called The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, I believe.
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And it's definitely, I'm going to post it on Facebook later,
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actually. It's definitely worth checking out, especially if you're a fan of
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Wicked and The Wizard of Oz from 1939 and the books, you know,
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because it's a bit of history behind it all.
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You know, worth checking out.
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So there's been plenty of annotations based on the original works by L.
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Frank Baum but yeah it's musical timing here and we're about to talk Wicked you know I'd,
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Kudos to John Chu. He tried his best. He says he didn't want to use a lot of CGI.
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But let's be real. You're doing a fantasy film. You're going to use CGI,
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quite a bit of it, actually.
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But what I really, the one thing that stands out about the film,
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before we dive into it, is his comments about, I want to use old school of new school.
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And he uses Matt. He uses props. He uses practical. He uses CGI.
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And what he's done or his team of visual effects gurus have done,
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it's modernized to today's technology.
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Yes, it's beautifully shot, blah, blah, blah.
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However, there's a throwback feel to the way they shot this film.
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And it's almost a throwback feel like they keep true to F.A.
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So it was filmed back in 1939.
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If that makes any sense of what I'm saying, people. I know what you mean.
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They even do it in the opening sequence with the Universal logo in the black
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and white, the old Universal,
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the 39 Universal logo with a tint of red in there like they did,
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I believe it was MGM or UA who put out the original. Yeah, it was MGM originally.
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I would say, I was looking into this and they had to be very, very careful as well.
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Apparently a lot of the actual budget of the 1939 version from MGM was spent
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on legal fees and apparently they basically copyrighted all sorts of random
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stuff from the 1939 including the red ruby slippers that Dorothy wears.
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The general look of Dorothy and things like the specific shade of green that
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the Wicked Witch, the Margaret Hamilton Wicked Witch as her face paint, basically.
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So with Wicked, they had to be very careful. And while they wanted to stay true to a certain extent,
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you know respect to the 39 one
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they had to change various things even even like
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the look of the emerald city and stuff had to be tweaked now
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i haven't seen the second one yet but i'm going to watch it obviously
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and apparently dorothy does appear in it but they there were certain things
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they had to change like dorothy's dress and stuff because basically mtm would
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have sued the life out of them even the look of the munchkins you know i'm not
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talking about you know basically little people playing them,
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which doesn't happen here,
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but their actual costume designs and stuff, they had to be very careful.
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And the Flan Monkeys too. Yeah, because they were all dungarees,
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I think, in the original. They don't wear that here.
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No, no. They're basically normal-sized human beings, possibly to do with Peter
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Dinklage's comments where he basically put all little people and dwarf actors out of work.
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He's in this. Peter Dinklage's in this. He voices the ghost. Yeah, he's the voice.
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So he's doing okay. Yeah, he's kind of a hypocrite, and he's getting all the
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work, and you're putting...
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You're putting many people out of work. It's fellow community out of work. Yeah.
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If I was a little guy actor, I would be extremely pissed off.
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Those guys can't get work. Now, even with that recent Willy Wonka film,
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they refused to cast basically a little guy as an Oompa Loompa,
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and they hired Hugh Grant instead.
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So I would be majorly pissed off if I was him. Yeah, well, that's unfortunate.
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All right, $150 million budget. the
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movie's made 758 million worldwide holy crap
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lots of awards it's won
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a lot a lot of nominations so good on it usually mainly
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mainly for visual but i believe ariana grande
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got something but who knows okay we got cynthia arrivo who plays afaba ariana
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grande who plays galinda or glinda we'll dive into that one it's actually quite
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a quite an important plot twist that that name change, which I kind of like.
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Jeff Goldblum as Oz, Michelle Yao as Madame Morrible, Jonathan Bailey as Furio,
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you got Ethan Slater as Buck, you got Marissa Bonet as Nessa Rose,
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and Peter Dinklage as the voice of Dr.
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Delamond, or Black Phillip from The Witch.
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Good to see Black Phillip from The Witch still getting work. It's a witch movie.
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Well, exactly. You know, good old Black Phillip.
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Would you like to live deliciously, as nobody says in the woods?
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The opening sequence, I have to admit, I really, really enjoyed it because it
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takes up right when the witch is dead.
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You know, ding dong, the witch is dead. Everyone knows the song.
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And it's kind of a darker take on it. It's kind of creepy.
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And then you got the flying monkeys flying away from her castle.
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So we see the puddle of water where she, you know, faded, she melted and faded away.
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And then in the background as we're going, as we find this beautiful shot with
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the monkeys flying over this land and they're going over these hills and they're heading toward Oz,
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we can see just in the corner on the other brick road, we can see the scarecrow,
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the tin man, the cowardly lion, Dorothy, and Toto.
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It's a really nice segue. It's a really nice segue.
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Look at the original at least at least
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relating it to the original yeah well well
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not just relating it to it apparently again i haven't seen
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this the second one yet but apparently this is a
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bigger part of the plot you know with including
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this scene in the second one you know including dorothy and the the tin man
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and the lion and the scarecrow now let's talk about the musical aspect of this
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now they've re-released this film and i think they're doing with the second
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one they're releasing in theaters where they put captions,
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the screen, so you can sing along.
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Oh, that sounds like my idea. Yeah, well, they do that. They do that with a lot of musicals.
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And, yeah, at the end of my life, not going to happen. Yeah.
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Why can't they? Let me ask you a minute. Hold on. Let me ask you this.
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Why can't they do the opposite?
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Why couldn't they just take away the musical numbers and give me a straightforward Wicked film?
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That's what I would prefer, actually, and the reason being, I think
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I actually really like this and I think it's very very good
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very strong but the biggest problem I
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have with it is actually the songs and nothing against the singing the singing
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is actually really good by Ariana Grande and Cynthia Erivo and apparently they
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that's not like sort of like recorded later on they're singing they sang live
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when they were recording the scenes and,
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You know, so basically, that's what they do anyway. They're basically musical
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stars, so that's no problem to them.
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But the songs themselves, I think, are very unmemorable.
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They're really forgettable. And they're like nails down a blackboard.
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To me, that could be my personal taste, of course.
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I'm a Radiohead and Rolling Stones fan, but I don't think Radiohead and the
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Rolling Stones would fit in a film like this.
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Some great 80s music would have been perfect in this. I just listened to the
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new Men Without Hats album. I'm a big man without hats, and nobody knows who they are.
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But they did a song called Pop Goes the World, which is a great song,
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and another song called Safety Dance.
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No, no, no, no. Those two songs would have been perfect for this film.
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Men Without Hats are you talking about? Yeah, yeah. Oh, sorry,
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I was getting mixed up. What do you call the Australian band? Men at Work.
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Men at Work. Men at Work. They are Australian. That's what I was getting mixed up.
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They are Australian. But yes, but I do know that, yeah, I remember that hatch
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as well, the safety dance. S-S-S-S-A-A-A-F-F-F-F-F-E.
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You can dance if you want to. You can leave your friends behind.
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Come on. I should get a role in a musical. Here's what I don't get.
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And I understand you want to write your own original material,
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right? But wouldn't it be fun, at least if you can do a musical?
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Gravity is a good song. I'm going to give them a pass. Gravity is a good song.
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It's the final song of the film. The final gravity or something.
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Yeah, when she becomes the witch.
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That's actually brilliantly placed, and I really do enjoy that song.
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So I'm giving a kudos on that one. And I know that's the go-to song,
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kind of like memories for cats and blah, blah, blah.
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Yeah. But anyways, I would love to see a musical where-
17:53
They do it, but they modernize, they do like safety dance, but they do it,
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let them sing safety dance.
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And they should do that so people of my generation would appreciate,
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hey, I know this song, and they can kind of get into it a little bit better
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than seeing this, ugh. Well, see what you're saying.
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Apparently, the director wanted to do that with some of the songs and have more
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hip-hop versions of them.
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But Ariana Grande said, no, there's no way.
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She wanted to stick to the more sort of classical musical
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feel so i mean again the singing
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and the choreography of all the dancing and stuff is not
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that i'm an expert obviously i'm not but to me it seemed bang on and spot on
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but the songs themselves grated on me but again like i say it could be my personal
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taste but i just found them very forgettable compared to i mean everyone knows
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the 1939 song, Somewhere Over the Rainbow,
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Ding Dong, The Witch is Dead, Follow the Yellow Brick Road, all that.
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None of these are in any way memorable to me, or if they are I just don't get,
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if I was the director and producer, I'd tell Ariana Grande to fuck off.
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We hired you to do a job, but you're going to do what we tell you to do.
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We'll get somebody else to play the part. Go ahead, leave. We'll easily get
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somebody else who's competent to do this part.
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I just don't get these actors who think their shit doesn't stink.
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Well, that's Hollywood for you. Yeah, the actors are the rule of the roost,
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and that's why the movies suck.
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Divas and princesses, and, you know, it's obviously not just divas and princesses.
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There's plenty of very difficult male actors out there as well. Yeah.
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There's no shorties right across the board. We'll jump back into this.
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So I do like when Glinda is telling the Munchkins that what happened.
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Because one of them says, you were good friends with the Wicked Witch of the West, weren't you?
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And then this is where it leads to the prequel. first we had kind of like a,
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sequel kind of in the opening 15 minutes
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but the most movie is a prequel and
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I like that I do like how they do that but on the
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subject what's that go ahead on the subject of the munchkins you know who I
20:10
missed and I wanted to see the lollipop guild yeah we fuckers yeah because they're
20:17
like we sort of hard men from Belfast you know talking out the side of their
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mouths and stuff we represent the lollipop guild,
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I miss them I want to do it,
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like they're on helium or something yeah but also they're like wee hard men
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skinheads from Belfast as well red hair.
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So we introduced to the mother and father
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and it's a
20:44
really good relationship blah blah blah he leaves
20:47
this is what i'm saying he's got very dark elements and that's where children might
20:50
and even parents might go but the mother's cheating and we clearly know this
20:55
is oz right she's fucking yes right because that's jeff goldblum yeah or all
21:00
right or an actor playing jeff goldblum young jeff goldblum yes that's clearly
21:04
oz we're not told this yet but that is Oz.
21:08
And we see there's a wolf doctor and a bear as a midwife.
21:13
Now, I didn't realize how important this is. I was creeped out by it.
21:17
But I understand the relevance of it now because the film is based around protecting animal rights.
21:23
Yes. Can we just shoot back a little bit? There is, and again,
21:28
I'm not just being dark for dark sake,
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but there is, I imagine it will be explored more in the second film,
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and is, but there is this suggestion there it's very subtly played because obviously
21:39
this is you know technically a children's film but there is the subtle suggestion
21:43
there of that Oz basically drugged the mother.
21:49
If you watch it no there is and I know the way these writers think and stuff
21:53
there is a very subtle allusion to it I didn't see that I saw that she was not
21:58
a very nice person oh I mean she was at first up for it but there is there is
22:03
that wee thing there I don't know. I'll be interested to watch the second one.
22:08
This is a child, not of the father.
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Now, the father technically doesn't know this. The father just dismisses this
22:18
child because it comes out green like she had an affair with Shrek.
22:23
So how do
22:27
i go the film the film is really
22:31
good if you take away the musical crap the film is very good i'm going to jump
22:37
way ahead here kind of because we're not going to go by scene by scene but what
22:42
it does really well and it's the two main characters of afaba and of galinda
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and the The reason I say that,
22:51
you've got a father who you really feel sorry for.
22:55
And she's always bullied. Her father treats her like shit.
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Her sister even treats her like shit in certain scenes. People don't catch it, but I count it.
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And we'll dive into some of the scenes. And then you got the flip side of that coin.
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You got the spoiled, overdold brat, Galinda, who keeps telling you it's Galinda.
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Not Galinda, it's Galinda. and correcting people and trying to help Afaba just
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out of her, you know, not of the kindness of her heart.
23:21
For her own popularity. Just for her to gain her own popularity or to get in
23:25
the good graces of Madame Morrible because obviously Afaba- Yeah, our prince of Depchet.
23:32
Yeah, let me finish, man. And then so you have these characters,
23:38
one depressed, sad, low self-esteem, bullied.
23:42
You got the other one, Glamour Chick, has her own flat, yada,
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yada, yada, blah, blah, blah.
23:48
But the way they play these two and how they become reversed and how the film-
23:55
It's brilliant character development.
23:56
It's very good character development. We talk about arcs on this podcast a lot.
24:00
And the ending, we see that Galinda, who becomes Galinda-
24:05
And then obviously she becomes the Wicked Witch.
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You can see each moment, each scene, as they make that different transition closer.
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And I was even thinking, after I watched it, I was thinking, you know what?
24:21
Once we'll get over, once we'll get the Oz, or the Emerald City,
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and we'll meet Oz, it takes a real dark turn.
24:28
But before that, we'll have to sort of sit through all of this Harry Potter,
24:33
Hogwarts, teen drama, teen school drama, high school nonsense. But you know what?
24:39
I then realized that that teen high school nonsense is actually needed for the
24:45
character development.
24:47
Yes, it can be a bit annoying at the time but it is needed. It's not really even annoying.
24:52
I would say that the problem I have with it is the music numbers they're way
24:55
too long and they're more of a distraction.
24:59
Yeah. No, I would sort of agree with that. I would say
25:02
that Ariana Grande is absolutely perfect
25:05
for the role you know i don't think there's much acting going
25:08
on here in terms of playing
25:11
this sort of you know early on i'm talking the first half you
25:14
know with the spoiled brat princess she's absolutely
25:17
great in the role actually they all are no no
25:20
everybody is really if you take away their personas outside the filming which
25:25
i've heard horror stories but they're they're very good and yeah they all are
25:30
michelle yao is particularly really good i see you know she's well she's trains
25:36
she's an oscar winner she knows she knows her craft,
25:39
i even like peter dicklinson who plays the voice of duck dillamond the goat's
25:44
good fun i saw all the talking animals yeah oh but well so the prince is pretty
25:50
good as well when did harry potter get written.
25:53
Harry Potter, I think it was late 90s. I've never, I mean, I'm not a Harry Potter person.
25:59
And just for the simple reason, I've never read a Harry Potter book or basically
26:04
watched a Harry Potter film.
26:06
Just not my thing. But it was like the late 90s.
26:09
Because this was written for before then, then. I was just wondering,
26:12
because it's got... Yes, this was mid-90s. This was mid-90s. Yeah, mid-95.
26:16
Now, I don't know if things were taken different when they turned into a musical,
26:20
because this has Harry Potter written all over it. I mean.
26:24
Oh, the school is Hogwarts, basically. Yeah, exactly.
26:27
Yeah, definitely. I mean, I'm sort of changing subjects slightly here,
26:32
but you were talking about, you know, the bullying of basically the Cynthia
26:36
character and who becomes the Wicked Witch and stuff.
26:38
A lot of this reminded me, strangely, of Clive Barker's Nightbreed,
26:43
where it's basically about outsiders who are made to feel like monsters,
26:49
you know, that sort of thing.
26:50
But it's kind of a cliche. that's in a lot of different films there's that whole
26:55
Hunts Back at Notre Dame feel,
26:58
yeah but they're a dime a dozen really yeah I haven't seen that in a long time,
27:04
it's a good movie Nightbreed's brilliant.
27:08
It's David Cronenberg as the bad guy and you got Tad Barker Dr.
27:12
Dacker I mean again it was another video favorite of mine as a kid you know,
27:19
not quite up there not quite as good as Hellraiser I think it has certain flows
27:23
but it's certainly it's up there anyway you know it's not the Nessa Rose Nessie
27:30
I think they call her her sister yes sister who's actually seen by her father
27:34
I thought she was kind of a brat,
27:37
Well, she becomes the Wicked Witch of the East. You know that?
27:40
Does she? That's who she is.
27:42
Dorothy basically kills her. That's who Dorothy kills at the start of the Wizard
27:47
of Oz. Is that the one the house falls on?
27:49
Yes. Spoiler alert. I want to know what happens in the second one.
27:55
Right. Well, the father is basically also played by British actor Andy Nyman,
28:00
famous for ghost stories and other things.
28:03
What does that have to do with what you just told me?
28:06
Is that her father? So that's why the house fell on her, because she didn't
28:09
get out of the way in time.
28:12
Oh, damn. So, come on. I was, come on. We got to make some off-color jokes.
28:17
Like I had a joke written. You're going to hell for that one?
28:21
About Professor Dr. Dilliman. I was like, even though he's a goat,
28:25
he's probably fucking his students. Oh, fuck me.
28:28
Because professors fuck their students. Come on. Right. So it's bestiality jokes, though.
28:33
Exactly. We got to put a little bestiality there. Come on. Well,
28:36
I mean, there's certain, yeah, well, there's sentient animals, who knows, but I, I,
28:40
thankfully, my mind is much purer than that, and I didn't even think of that,
28:45
you know, which is, you know, I've pretty worked, you know, sort of sense of humor, so, yeah,
28:51
that's, that's pretty fucking out there.
28:56
I don't know what you were looking for, you know, what version.
29:01
I just laugh because he's a professor and he's a, he's a, he's a goat.
29:05
Yeah you know and all professors come on I mean most professors are kind of
29:11
creepy well he has Black Phillip as well to be fair so you see that's right,
29:18
I'm sure there's a lot of go-fucking going now. It's not a subject I have any
29:23
remote interest in. Clearly you do.
29:29
I can't remember what film I got this from, but I do like the fact when her
29:34
power only comes to her when she's angry or she's pushed.
29:39
That's a bit of a cliche as well. That's a cliche too.
29:43
Then you've got Madame Marble who's like, Like, we got to teach you to,
29:47
you know. I think that happened in, like, Firestarter.
29:49
It's Star Wars. It's Anakin Skywalker and those others. Yeah, and Carrie.
29:55
Yeah, you have to learn to control your power and sort of control your emotions.
29:59
But again, it's part of the character development, which is sadly lacking in a lot of other films.
30:04
We'll get, you know, new films we get these days. So at least there's something there. It works.
30:11
Let's talk about the animal thing. What, again? Fuck me, you're obsessed. No, not that.
30:16
God, you got a really dirty mind. What?
30:20
You got to get off that. I mean, one joke and you're just, you just want to
30:24
dive right back in. Not at all. Well, so does Dr. Dillamont.
30:29
So. All right. All right. So the plot pretty much is that animals exist with
30:35
these people and they can talk and they obviously educated.
30:41
They're pretty much humans.
30:44
And... They're not humans, they're animals. Well, I know they're animals, but they talk.
30:48
Yes, they're sentient. You know what I fucking mean. You know what I fucking
30:51
mean. Sentient is the word you're looking for.
30:53
Oh, pardon me, Thesaurus.
30:57
So anyways...
30:59
There was a great drought or something, they said, and it wiped out a lot of the animals.
31:03
Yes. So there's very limited animals that have this intelligence, like Dr.
31:09
Dillamond and the other professors. I think there's a pelican in there, too.
31:13
But what's happening is, for some reason, they're starting to lose their speech.
31:21
No, they're right to speech. Oh, no, no. Dr. Dillamond's losing his voice.
31:27
Yeah, he is. well I know he couldn't pronounce her name right but that was to
31:30
do with the fact that the white goat's mouths are shaped right I took that more
31:35
as always trying to silence them basically not in terms of like actually take
31:41
their physical speech away from them but basically they take away their rights
31:44
and their rights to speak,
31:47
that's what I took that as I could be wrong,
31:50
no they're losing their inability to speak because there's a scene where she sneaks to Dr.
31:57
Delamond's hideout and they're going to a meeting.
32:00
He says something is going on. He even says he's losing his voice.
32:06
Right. Because he's singing. He's singing it. He's singing something pretty
32:09
bad. That's right. He says, boom, boom.
32:13
No, that's right. He says he thinks he must be getting a cold or something.
32:16
Yes. Yeah, that's right. No, I took that as just, I mean, it could be wrong
32:21
that they weren't physically losing their speech. It was just, what do you call them?
32:25
Oz was basically trying to silence them, essentially. Well, we'll find out later on. It's ours.
32:29
Yeah. But they're causing the silence. They're causing the last of the...
32:34
Most of the animals were wiped out because of the drought.
32:36
I could be wrong, people, but I'm pretty sure that's what happened.
32:39
And so the rest of them, they're pretty much getting rid of.
32:41
Or they're losing their ability to speak.
32:44
And as they're losing their ability to speak, they're weeding them out.
32:48
Well, maybe it's... Yeah.
32:50
Maybe after the drought. Actually, if those make sense in terms of the drought,
32:53
maybe it's like they're, you know, the last of their type, you know, type thing.
32:59
Yeah, so drought doesn't necessarily have to mean, like, we think it's like,
33:02
you know, running low on water or something like that.
33:06
Their drought could be something different. Well, I think it may be a physical
33:10
drought, but it's just that it's killed so many animals that they're basically
33:13
intelligent animals or are literally a Dan Braid. So, yeah, I mean, that works.
33:19
Pay attention to it, man I was paying attention For Professor Goat The sentient
33:25
goat We made this one character,
33:27
Fierro Prince, Prince Dipshit But I liked him, he's actually a good character,
33:33
He's alright, he's kind of a fucking idiot Well, they do subvert What do you expect from him?
33:37
Because he sort of comes in like all Being sort of like a bit of a sort of Prince
33:42
Charming type But we'll later find out that he actually Has a brain and that
33:48
he actually resents all that being the good-looking prince and all that sort of thing.
33:52
And he actually prefers the Wicked Witch over Ariana Grande. So that was a good twist.
33:59
But that goes away real quick.
34:03
I believe, and I couldn't be wrong, because he does make a move on her,
34:09
but then he jumps into bed with Glinda right away.
34:13
Yes, but I think it's resolved better in the next one, as far as we were.
34:17
And plot spoilers well I'm trying to be very careful with spoilers and I haven't
34:23
even seen it you already ruined that Vanessa is the wish that gets crushed I
34:26
haven't seen it well that was sort of obvious how is that obvious?
34:31
Because in 1939 it's her sister that's why the Wicked Witch is pissed off because
34:36
Dorothy killed her sister and this is her sister in this oh that's right you
34:43
know pay attention laughing.
34:47
Fuck off they could have wrote out this whole Nasa Boke whatever his name was Boke,
34:56
I thought that whole thing was stupid right I'm
34:59
getting so tired of these fucking musicals where one guy's going hey Glinda
35:03
I want to get in your pants and then Glinda goes oh no you can't do that go
35:09
after my sister and then two seconds later he's in love with the sister I said
35:13
guys make up your fucking mind right I am not going to give any spoilers away,
35:18
but all I am going to say is I do know that the character
35:21
has a very important part to play in the next one. That's the Munchkin character.
35:27
No spoilers. No spoilers being given. Which one, Vogue? Yes.
35:31
Vogue? Yes. I tell you once we stop recording if you want to know.
35:35
No, I don't. You know what, guys? I'm going to tell you something.
35:38
I'm going to tell you something right now.
35:40
And I can't believe I'm saying that. I didn't want to do this,
35:43
okay? I'm not doing fucking wicked, but he was crying. Trevor's like,
35:46
please, please, please.
35:48
Alright. And I'm a nice, I'm a kind heart. Now you fuck.
35:52
You need to go to the Wizard of Oz and ask him for a heart. You know, if I only had a heart.
35:57
You need to get a brain. Boo!
36:00
Yeah, well, tin man. Yeah, I mean, I wanted to do Children of the Corn or something.
36:05
I wanted to do, I don't know, something pretty nasty.
36:09
So, but anyways, there's a point here. Go ahead.
36:15
I have a copy. I might even go see it. I'm actually looking forward to the sequel here.
36:21
Because I got to admit, you take away the fucking musical numbers,
36:24
I'll go get a cup of coffee or something. I don't give a fuck.
36:27
The story and the visuals really work here.
36:32
Especially the entire Oz sequence. And we'll get to it here soon. And...
36:37
And I really, the song Gravity really does, it really hits it home run with
36:43
what she's been going through. Did you get emotional? Did you cry?
36:46
When they played it? Yeah. I teared. Right?
36:49
Right. Teared. That'd be a first. But anyway. What is this wet substance coming
36:53
from my eyes? Flash Gordon.
36:57
I believe that's what humans call tears. This actually has a little Flash Gordon feel to it.
37:04
Well, it's fantasy. you know the dark fantasy strangeness
37:08
of it but yes but yes all i will say is
37:11
that i do know that the munchkin character no okay let's just move on don't
37:15
big plot okay okay i love how you keep saying big big and getting bigger so
37:19
you just you'll not guess it anyway yeah okay i bet you well thanks a lot but
37:24
anyways my point being before he spoiled the move next movie for me,
37:29
is i am i'm really looking forward to it because i can't
37:32
i i'm gonna watch this weekend i can't believe i'm saying that
37:35
about a fucking wicked film i i'm actually surprised at
37:38
myself that i once i watched the first one
37:40
after having all sorts of reservations and
37:43
just like no way i and then and then i looked at the runtime it was like two
37:47
hours 45 minutes and i was like no but then after watching it that was my character
37:52
arc that was our character arcs where we we changed we character development
37:58
over the course of the film and now i am looking forward to the second one. Yeah.
38:04
I'm not even ashamed to admit it. I think that this is especially once we get
38:09
to the darker stuff later on when we get to the Emerald City.
38:13
Yeah. I'm really looking forward to watching the second one. So,
38:18
When Belinda's still kind of being a brat. Yes. But funny. It's actually quite funny.
38:23
She gives the Wicked Witch hat to a father. Yes.
38:28
And as a joke, but actually, you know, she ends up, you know,
38:34
wearing it. Yeah. Becoming a part of her persona.
38:37
And every time she's given something, whether she puts on a new dress,
38:41
and we'll see it at the very end where Belinda gives her, you need wings, and he gives her a cape.
38:46
We get the broom every sequence she's getting accessorized to become a witch
38:52
more and more it's almost it's almost like this is what she's this is what she's
38:56
destined her to become yeah also,
38:58
you know have they never heard of witches in the Land of Oz because it's pretty
39:03
witchy the stuff they're giving her including the hat you know I was waiting
39:07
for them to go here's a black hat yeah it is quite witchy so obviously in the Magic of Land of Oz,
39:13
she's the first witch even though there's sorcery obviously well established
39:17
in this universe and they have like this sort of Necronomicon where they have
39:22
all the spells in it and stuff from Lovecraft.
39:25
I am do you notice how the school is full of fucking assholes?
39:31
It's a high school drama at this point in the school where it's mean girls it's mean girls essentially,
39:38
but you know obviously and you know obviously there is a huge gay following
39:43
one to the musical and these films and stuff.
39:46
And there is a lot of serious hardcore campiness, but a lot of it's quite funny.
39:51
And Ariana Grande is actually a very good comedy actress, I have to say.
39:58
Well, yeah, they all do their job. Yep. So we find out that the reason the father
40:04
hates her is because the mother was pregnant with her.
40:10
He doesn't know. He doesn't know. He doesn't know it was. He doesn't know she was from an affair.
40:17
I think he suspects it, but I think that's what it is. He might suspect it,
40:19
but at this point, he doesn't. All right? We don't know. We'll find out in the next one.
40:23
A lot of things I need answers to from this next one. I need to know why she's
40:26
green and what's with the water.
40:28
Why is the water killer? So those are two things I want to know.
40:31
And don't you spoil it for me. Well, in the 1939 film... Stop, stop.
40:35
In the 1939 film, that's what they basically... And even in the 1910 one I was
40:41
talking about, that's how they basically they defeated which with water.
40:45
You know that, but why does that work? That's what I'm saying.
40:49
I'm not from Oz. Do you listen to the words that come out of my mouth?
40:51
I am not from Oz. I don't... Oh my god.
40:55
Anyways, as I was fucking talking You make me wicked Wicked Like Mr.
41:04
C from The Shaman Ebenezer Good, wicked Fuck, shut the fuck up Jesus Christ,
41:11
Fucking obscure shit He's a good, he's a good He's a good,
41:16
you know what I didn't think for a second that when I started this podcast I'd
41:20
be referencing The Shaman and Ebenezer Good Anyways,
41:25
so the mother was, okay, so she comes out green.
41:31
Yes. And everyone's like, what the fuck?
41:34
Shrek's the dad. Yeah, Shrek's the dad. And I'm waiting for Donkey to show up.
41:41
Talking animal, makes sense. Mm-hmm. So, the reason the father is mad is because the mother...
41:52
Was drinking milk flowers to prevent her, Nessa, from being green because they
41:59
think that's what changed her color or something like that.
42:02
So during her next pregnancy with Nessa Rose, whoever her name is,
42:06
they gave her milk flowers, but that actually caused an early birth.
42:11
And during the birth, she broke her legs or something like that.
42:15
She was, yes, basically. And that's
42:18
why she is basically without the use of her legs because
42:21
yeah that's basically it in a
42:25
nutshell essentially i think but i think
42:28
the father basically suspects that the wife has been unfaithful and that's why
42:33
also the fact is green and for some reason everyone on oz is bigoted against
42:37
green people i mean obviously there is a lot of like you know real world racial
42:42
subtext here but basically for for you know in terms of the land of Oz,
42:47
people are bigoted against green people?
42:50
This is funny because, well, ironic, because Oz is all green. Yeah, I know.
42:55
What if the Incredible Hulk appeared? Hulk? Sam!
43:02
Yeah, the mother died at birth. That's another key one.
43:05
Yeah. I think so, didn't she? Yeah, no, yeah. The mother's dead.
43:09
No, no, she couldn't be. She may be dead because, don't forget,
43:12
the little sister came along.
43:14
No, the mother. Oh, my God.
43:17
Oh, my God. You're not listening to words come out of my mouth.
43:20
Okay, let me, I'll try. I can't try. The mother died in the second birth then.
43:24
No, I never, that's what I was talking about the whole time.
43:27
I'm not talking about Elfie. I'm talking about Nace's birth.
43:32
They fed the mother green milk flowers because they didn't want her to come out green like Elfie.
43:38
So by doing that, it caused an early birth, causing paralysis to Nace's legs and mom's death.
43:45
Yeah, that's okay. Pick it up, man.
43:50
Yeah and that's what that's what i was thinking you were talking about but it was just clarifying,
43:55
we did anyways so
43:59
we introduced this other professor nick a dick yes so he's a dick and then you've
44:06
got also i have to say then you got morrible so you pretty much got horrible
44:09
and dick and the school is called shiz and i was just like the whole time i
44:14
like time to mention shiz I was just thinking, Jizz?
44:18
Yeah, well, a combination of jizz and shit. It's like, what's going on here?
44:22
Dude. But, you know, what's going on with these names? You know, it was just a bit wacky.
44:31
I can say, now, hey, Professor Nickadick, there's Madame Morrible.
44:35
Why don't you guys go hit it? Jizz and shit.
44:39
Oh, dude, that's wrong. Dude, that's... But that's what it's...
44:43
I don't know. I don't know what they're writing.
44:46
Where do you look up your fucking facts from? What?
44:50
Where the fuck, man? This is the man that was talking about goat sex earlier on.
44:55
Don't start, man. I was making a joke because he's a professor and professors
44:58
sleep with her students.
44:59
I was making a joke about the name Shiz, the college.
45:05
Yeah, but yours is rude. Mine was funny. Right? Right. Mine was crude,
45:10
but bestiality was funny. Gotcha.
45:13
Good. Good. Thank you.
45:17
Hope no fucking children are listening to this podcast.
45:20
So we've got, if they are, their lives are over. Yeah. They're not going to
45:27
get over. Switch off now.
45:31
So Nick-a-dick brings a poor little caged animal, cute little white lion tiger thing.
45:39
The cub. And she gets pissed, and then she gets poppy dust and puts everyone
45:45
to sleep. yes apart from and besides Fiero yes yeah and,
45:53
And then Morrible knows what happened to the class.
45:57
She realizes this girl is more powerful than we think. She doesn't need my help.
46:02
She's Anakin Skywalker.
46:03
Yeah. She sends a letter to Oz. And this leads us to the finale where Glenda
46:09
is going to the Emerald Simi, Simi, City.
46:13
And that's it. And then she brings, she brings Glenda with her.
46:17
Yes. And there's a fucking, this whole sequence.
46:20
So I know we want to see it's Oz and it's beautiful. and there's a beautiful
46:24
set, don't get me wrong, and some nice CGI and blah, blah.
46:27
But fuck, everyone in this fucking movie is in a flash mob.
46:31
Well, they're simpletons, basically, you know? Fucking hell. I like the monkeys.
46:37
The monkey, see the transformation when the Wicked Witch basically turns,
46:42
you know, she does a spell, and the monkeys gain their wings, basically?
46:47
That is pretty horrific and monstrous. I loved it.
46:51
Yeah, it kind of reminded me of, I know I'm going outside the box,
46:54
seeing that really bothered me a bit in The Fly 2, where this metamorphosis
46:59
happens with this dog and whatever.
47:01
And it's very just, I can't watch the film. It's body harder.
47:05
Yeah, it's body harder. This is Cronenberg at his best.
47:09
And you do. But you kind of, you needed that scene of pain because it had to
47:16
show that these animals technically have been mistreated now and use for pretty
47:22
much experimental purposes.
47:24
Yes. We kind of just talked about that with the 12 monkeys. But...
47:29
Well, the Wicked Witch was originally the protector of the animals,
47:32
and she was the animal rights girl, but yet she is, albeit accidentally,
47:37
responsible for the... Yeah, but that's the whole point.
47:41
She was used to do that. Yes. And the Oz and Morrible used her.
47:47
Morrible is actually more the villain than Oz. Oz is just a mascot.
47:51
He's just a mascot. Yeah. She finds that out, actually, because there's a great
47:55
line where she calls him out, and says, why don't you read something from the
48:01
book or blah, blah, blah, and he can't because she knows he's useless.
48:06
Yeah. So Morrible is more of the villain here. She set this up as well, this finale.
48:12
Yeah. You know, she got the Wicked Witch and basically Ariana Grande to basically
48:17
go there because they wanted to use her power, even though Ariana Grande is
48:22
basically just a tag along at this point.
48:24
Well, that's why when Morrible tells the lead monkey shows up,
48:31
right? Yes. And he's like, hey, what's up?
48:34
Yep. And she tells Elfie that the story of how this monkey, this guardsman, loves looking at birds.
48:46
He loves every morning, gets up and looks at birds flying and stuff like that.
48:51
And so she planted that deliberately in her head. So when she does the spell,
48:55
she gives that monkey wings like a bird.
49:00
She was trying to be- Or she's an nasty piece of work?
49:03
But yeah, no, but Witchy Poo-
49:09
Elfie did not realize that was happening. She didn't realize it would do this
49:13
kind of damage to the monkey.
49:15
Yeah, but then it was. And she even says, let me turn this back,
49:20
or you can't reverse spells.
49:23
Yeah. They were basically just using and testing her because they were convinced
49:28
that she would have the power to basically, for this grimoire,
49:33
to basically obey her commands, which it turns out is true.
49:38
It means that. Because I'm sure the next film will...
49:42
We'll deal with the separation of Glinda and Elfie.
49:47
We know that's going to happen here. So, but there's a line in here where they
49:51
meet Oz and she shakes the hand of Oz and she goes, he goes,
49:58
it's Glinda or something like that.
49:59
And she goes, it's Glinda, the guy is silent.
50:03
It's the first time she's grown up.
50:07
Where she's not pretentious. complete, but for this film, this part,
50:14
that is her change from being the little bratty princess to,
50:18
she's basically grown up, she's become a woman.
50:21
For dark reasons, yes, but it's still, again, boils down to,
50:25
I have to say, very, very strong writing and character development.
50:29
Probably all that time with Professor Goat.
50:33
Yep, Black Phillip. Black Phillip.
50:37
I do like this whole sequence and you
50:40
know i like my action and i have to say this was you know
50:43
two action stars running up this big big
50:47
clock tower thing with a with this balloon sequence
50:50
i'd be on this is pretty cool gotta admit even though
50:53
if they're breaking into fucking song i do like
50:56
this whole chase sequence with the guards the monkeys going after
50:59
them as they're trying to escape on this balloon and the
51:01
roof caves in on them and they can't get out it's
51:04
actually quite effective it does and it's a call back
51:07
to things like the Tim Burton Batman and also
51:10
you know the hunchback of Notre Dame and stuff I would say as well that when
51:17
I was watching this I know there's been a Sam Raimi version of Oz which was
51:22
out about I think about 10 or so years ago but I think Tim Burton would make a great Oz film.
51:29
Who did the score for this? Because it sounded like it was Elfman.
51:32
It's not Elfman. I know that.
51:34
I think it's just their general team of musical theater people.
51:40
Basically, I don't know. No, no.
51:42
It has to be a score by somebody. Oh, I know that. But it's all part of the
51:45
whole sort of, you know, the sort of songs and stuff.
51:49
To be honest, I'm not 100%. So apologies for that.
51:54
I don't very much any of them are listening.
51:56
But, you know. They turned us off. Yeah, once you started talking about goats and stuff, that was it.
52:02
That's nothing. That was funny. You got a little cruel with the university name.
52:07
But anyways, this is where they kind of had that moment where it says,
52:11
listen, I'm gone here. I got to go.
52:14
And yeah, so next is when the broom comes into play.
52:18
I do like to see where she's falling because she doesn't know how to use the
52:21
broom and she sees herself in the glass, the windows, whatever, as she's falling.
52:25
And it's her younger self. And the younger self says, just reach out.
52:29
And by just, you know, you see her, seeing her reach her hand out.
52:32
And as she does, the broom comes into place. And then the monkeys turn on her side.
52:36
And we talked about how, how Galinda gives, gives her, you need wings and gives her the cape.
52:43
Yeah. It was basically, oh, we want to know be in Star Wars,
52:46
you know, use the force look, you know, type thing, you know.
52:50
Yeah. I like the fact that you have this big speech, and it's Morables,
52:56
Madame Morable, and it's through the university saying, oh, she's betrayed us all.
53:00
And you see the looks on Ferreo, Bach, and Nessa Rose.
53:03
They're like, what the fuck? There's no way. Something's going on here.
53:07
Yeah. So I'll be interested to see what happens to those characters because
53:11
obviously, well, I know what happened to Nessa Rose because you spoiled it, you prick.
53:14
No, because I watched the 1939 film and paid attention.
53:18
Which you should have.
53:20
But yeah, so part two is next. That'll be next for us. Yeah,
53:24
guys, I got to admit, I have to admit, I actually rather enjoyed it.
53:27
I am shocked I'm giving this a pass. Strong pass from me.
53:33
Yeah, I caught the darker tone. I mean, younger audience might not.
53:38
The adult audience will with the horror element of it, with the very dark tones.
53:43
We made some pretty off-color remarks and jokes.
53:47
But there's quite a few of them in this film, too, that we haven't mentioned.
53:50
Yeah. So just understand that when you're viewing it.
53:55
There's a lot of serious stuff I play here. We talk visuals.
54:01
We talk character arts. We talk acting.
54:05
We talk, does it wear all this welcome? A little bit there with the songs. They're too long.
54:10
But if you took away the songs, this would have been a great film.
54:13
But I'm going with it, and I'm looking forward to the second one now. Yeah, I agree.
54:19
And again I'm shocked because I'm not usually,
54:23
into this type of thing but you know full marks and I know it came out last
54:27
year but if I had a time machine if I had a DeLorean car I would put it on one
54:34
of my best films for last year.
54:36
Wow, that's a good one. It would be up there anyway. I can't remember what last
54:41
year's was, but yeah, it's actually quite surprisingly good.
54:46
All right, so next up, guys, we just said we'll do Wicked Part 2,
54:51
and then we'll kind of let you know what's next in the new year.
54:54
But that being said, this was a long one. We're going to let you guys go.
54:58
We're releasing this tonight. So listen, have a great New Year's Eve.
55:03
Be good, be safe, be wise.
55:06
And that's all I have. Happy New Year.