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Ready To Ditch Your Husband? Listen To This First! · Pursuit of Sassiness

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Hi guys, it's I Do Part two. I'm back your
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: celebrity mentor Jenniferfessler and Vatentime's day is around the corner.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: And some of you may hate your husband's guts. If
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: that's the case, this is the episode for you. We
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: are bringing an incredible divorce attorney. Her name is Marilyn
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Chinitz and she's been working in the field for over
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: thirty five years. You may have seen her on the
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Today Show on twenty twenty. She's a celebrity divorce attorney.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Marilynd This is I Do Part two. But some of
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: our listeners might be contemplating divorce, and I want to
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: pick your brain about the gray divorce or the silver divorce.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Why is a divorce attorney? Are we seeing more and
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: more couples divorcing when they are fifty five plus?
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Okay, so gray divorce really unfortunate. I married forty years
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  Speaker 2: and when your life really kind of takes hold and
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: it's really sad when it comes to an ending, like
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: the rug comes out and a lot of particularly women,
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: were not expecting it. So divorce doesn't really happen boom
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: all at once. It kind of dies a death over
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: a period of time and what contributes to that lack
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  Speaker 2: of interest. You no longer communicate. You are living parallel lives,
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: and it doesn't just happen at once. It really does
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: take time. And then all of a sudden, someone wakes
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: up and they said, you know what, I've got my
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: last trunch, I've got another twenty years. I'm miserably unhappy.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: I don't want to stay that way, yea, and so
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: I want to make changes. I feel like I'm doing
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: this forty one years. Divorce really is not necessarily an ending.
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  Speaker 3: I think it could be an edit. A lot mean
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  Speaker 3: by that.
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  Speaker 2: If a marriage is dead and you too are miserable,
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: and even though you haven't planned for it, it does
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: offer you an opportunity to kind of reconnect with yourself.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: There are so many things that happen that I see.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: I do a luncheon every year for sixty women. I've
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: been doing it literally for probably about twenty years. And
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: they get there at twelve, they leave at five, and
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: last year I did it at a wonderful restaurant downtown.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: And the purpose of that their former clients, their current clients,
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: their presidents of major company plastic surgeons, decorators. But It
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: gives them an opportunity to meet each other and to
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: see that there is really life. You can recreate yourself
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: in so many different ways. And that's why I said
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: I'd love to turn the table around and to interview
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: you because I look at you and you have a
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  Speaker 2: career in fashion.
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: In two you have a career in TV.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: So to me, I think there's nothing better than that recreating.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: So I'm seventy now next month, and I'm thinking about
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: not retiring because I'm not interested in doing that. But
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: how do I recreate myself? How do I do often
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: different things?
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Well, first and most importantly, wow, seventy. On another episode,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: you will tell us how one does that, because seventy
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: looks unbelievable on you, lady, that is crazy. Thank you,
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: You're very welcome. Tell yeah, it shows.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Both professionals too adorable grandchildren. Wow.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well, we're going to have to bring you back
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: so you can help us get there.
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: Ready to come.
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  Speaker 2: So I think Horse is sad for a lot of
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: reasons because.
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  Speaker 3: You really think that.
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  Speaker 2: The retirement years of the time that you're going to
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  Speaker 2: enjoy the wealth. Number One you created, right, You've built
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: such a significant marital estate or a marital estate doesn't
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: have to be significant. And you expected that you were
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: perhaps going to retire, you were going to travel, you
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: were going to buy something or explore things, and all
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: of a sudden you find that you're alone and hard.
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: That's hard.
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  Speaker 2: But I also think marriage takes a lot of work,
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  Speaker 2: and we do it in our everyday lives. We work hard.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: I work hard as a lawyer. You work hard in
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  Speaker 2: everything that you do. It does take a lot of work,
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: and you've got to That's that time. You can't wake
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: up all of a sudden say, oh boy, you know,
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  Speaker 2: all these years passed and now I'm miserable.
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  Speaker 3: If you were miserable.
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  Speaker 2: Long, then you've got to You've got to take hold
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  Speaker 2: of what's going on in term.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: I love how you're talking about that, that reinvention. It's true.
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  Speaker 1: I I you know my shoe company. I started a
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  Speaker 1: shoe company at fifty. I got on Housewives at fifty
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: three and never felt more excited or happier about a career. Right,
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  Speaker 1: I'm fifty seven.
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  Speaker 3: Now, yay, you're gorgeous. That's you're gorgeous.
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  Speaker 1: Well, thank you, thank you.
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  Speaker 3: Just keep doing this all day.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. Mutual admiration society. Well, but the thing is
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  Speaker 1: for me, well, I don't know it was. I'm married,
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  Speaker 1: and I had that support when I started to reinvent myself,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: you know, emotional, mental, and financial. But women, i think,
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, probably have a harder time.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: Only a lot of times they're not in the same
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: place career wise, right, and so they don't have Reinventing
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: themselves may mean reinventing themselves from being a mother and
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: a wife as opposed to you know, a lot of
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: times that support system in place, right, But they it
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: seems that more women are now you tell me, but
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: are now interested in divorcing at a later age.
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: They are for a lot of reasons. Some of them
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: have been very, very controlling marriages and they feel like
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: the oxygen has been taken out of them and they
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: don't want to live like that anymore. And those are
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: women who have lived a very good life, and there's
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: a lot of money there, but they're always you know,
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: doesn't always have to be that there's a lot of money.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: If you look at some people like Arianna Huffington, she
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: had a terrible marriage, a terrible marriage and a terrible
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  Speaker 2: divorce and look how she recreated herself.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Huffington Post was after that. Yeah, wow, I didn't know that.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: That's incredible, Diane.
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  Speaker 2: Von Furstenberg, Right, she was broke at age thirty and
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: then built this empire.
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  Speaker 3: Wow.
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  Speaker 2: So you know, there are really sad stories where people
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: really don't have anything. I give those women women in particular,
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: tremendous credit. And the service that I have to bring
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: to my clients is to give them that empowerment. Hence
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: that luncheon.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I love that. I would love to attend that.
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  Speaker 1: So in terms of the finances though, what how do
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: you guide women financially? I know it's a big question,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: not how do you guide them, but like what are
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: the mistakes do you tell them to look out for
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: financially when they're preparing for divorce.
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  Speaker 2: I like to do programs for women before they get divorced,
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  Speaker 2: and it's usually younger women who come. You know, I
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: may have done their pre nups and then we have
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: these really good lunch and learn and you want to
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: be in the know. A lot of women stay totally
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  Speaker 2: remove from the finances. The biggest mistake you can make, right,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: you want to be in the know. You're asked to
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  Speaker 2: sign a joint tax return.
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  Speaker 3: Look at the tax return, make a copy of it.
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  Speaker 2: You'll sign it, maybe I'm sure, but you want to
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: look at it afterwards. Hey, I didn't know. What's that
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: taxable interest? What's that deduction? You've you've got a good
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: group of professionals around you. You can have your own
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: account and you can have your own financial person. And
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: so you want to look at your credit card statements?
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: What do I do?
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  Speaker 3: How much so I spend every month? What am I
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: spending on? What are you spending on?
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  Speaker 2: You want to look at what assets do we have.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: We have this magnificent home in the Hamptons. We paid
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: twenty million for it. But the real key question is
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: how much is my mortgage? Is my mortgage fifteen million?
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  Speaker 2: So I only have equity of five million. You don't
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  Speaker 2: want to wake up years later and my god, that's
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: like a time bomb, that's like, oh my god.
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  Speaker 3: What happened?
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  Speaker 1: Right?
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  Speaker 2: Don't put yourself in that position. You need to be
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  Speaker 2: in the know all along. And why shouldn't you Why
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: shouldn't you be the partner that this person married. And
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  Speaker 2: I don't want to focus on women, but very often
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: it is the woman sure, she's busy. If she's not working,
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: she is working, she's raising a family.
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  Speaker 1: It's me, listen, I am guilty of it. I not
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: as much anymore, and I'm on the meetings we have
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: with our finance guide. But it's very easy for me
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: to sort of bury my head in the hand because
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: numbers and taxes and you know, pensions and all of
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  Speaker 1: that is very uninteresting to me. And shame on me
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  Speaker 1: because it's my life.
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  Speaker 3: We all do it.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's hard for you.
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  Speaker 3: I have a CD coming.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: My husband will call me. We have a CD. Let's
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: do now, what do you want to do? Well, he's
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: learned to ask me, what do you want to do?
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  Speaker 1: Oh? I love that.
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  Speaker 2: But you have to be aware of things, so that
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  Speaker 2: to me is one of the important things.
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  Speaker 1: Right.
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  Speaker 2: I like the idea of befriending, you know, a financial person,
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  Speaker 2: even in a turney, I am a good friend. I
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  Speaker 2: like the idea of empowering yourself, of course with knowledge, right,
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  Speaker 2: so you don't wake up one day and that the
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: blanket is taken off and there you are.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: I've had lots of friends that have gone through that.
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  Speaker 1: And also I'm curious about if you have a prenup,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: and I have many friends that also have a prenup.
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  Speaker 1: How do you handle that so that you are taking
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: care of so, in other words, do you update it
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: every few years?
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  Speaker 3: This is a good question, that's a really good question.
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  Speaker 2: Most people never look at that pre nup after its signed,
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: and that is such a mistake. So I'll give you
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: an example. I have a client. At the time that
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: she signed her pre nup, the husband was worth one
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: hundred million under the terms of the prenup. Very unfair.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: She got ten million as a distributed payment. By the
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: time they're getting divorced, now he's worth seven hundred million.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, she's adding ten million. But that almost
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: sounds unconscionable. She never looked at the prina. She never
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: ever discussed, Hey, we're buying all these properties, how come
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: they're in your name only? Why can't we put it
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: in joint names.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: So now we have a situation where she's got a
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: very unfair prena. He knows it. So we're negotiating, but
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: not to where she.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: Needs to be.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: That what a cautionary tale. Not I mean ten million dollars.
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  Speaker 1: A lot of most people would think that's.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: Well right, and right, but a judge, and so if
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: you go into court and you say your honor, it's unconscionable.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: This judge is probably doesn't have anyone.
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: Appreciated in value because partly of her efforts, and the
• 11:50
  Speaker 4: court's going to say, well, how about is she getting
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: well under the agreement ten million?
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: But that's unconscionable, of course, But he's a crime a river.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: Crime a river two hundred and I have four kids
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: and my wife manages very well.
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: Right, it's one realistic.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: So now you're five, ten, twenty years into the marriage,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: I would think that it's if the marriage is getting rocky,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: it's harder to convince your partner to renegotiate.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: But don't wait that long.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: So I just did a post not they're happily married,
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: and she was smart. She pulled up the prenup and
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: she said, look, this isn't fair. Yeah, seven properties, not
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: one is.
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: In my name.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: And he said, you know what, You're absolutely right. So
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: now renegotiated everything. She's set now for ten lives.
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: Wow, that's what you have to do. You have to
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: be in the know, you have to be knowledgeable, and
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: you have to care enough about yourself to make that inquiry.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: Such good advice. I hope our listeners are taking notes.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: So I think it's that's it's great advice. How often, though,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: do you see couples reconcile just out of curiosity, because
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: like during the divorce process, Because that's what happened to me.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: I was separated, Yeah, for like a year and a half,
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: and I had a boyfriend, he had a girlfriend. We
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: were moving on. We had had infidelity in our marriage,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: and we just for whatever reason, it just we neither
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: one of us wanted really to be for whatever reason,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: because we love each other.
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: And I think that's a great story.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: I really thank you. I mean I used to I
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: used to say, well, I do say that, like I
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: used to cheat on my boyfriend and meet my husband
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: right right like like and it was so ridiculous.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: Does it happen often?
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Do you find that, you know.
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: What doesn't happen?
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: It doesn't is very rarely.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and unfortunately because so much damage is done and
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: there's a lack of communication. So you loved your husband,
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: he loved you. Yeah, just a circumstance answers presented itself
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: that drove that way. You know, it was unfortunate.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what I think, Marylyn, it was a
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: little it was a little fortunate our marriage changed after
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: that separation.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: Well, of course it's both.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And you know sometimes listen forty years of marriage,
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: it's not like, oh my god, it's wonderful, right, It's
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: really rocky moments.
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: Sure, And there are moments where you're screaming and yelling.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: There are moments where you're you know, you're living apart
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: from each other, whether it's a month or a week
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: or whatever. You've got to recalibrate, You've got to restart.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do you think that that when I you say
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: that you have to live apart? You of course have
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: part of the sleep divorce, where couples stop sleeping in
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: I guess the same room. Is that a good thing?
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: I think that's like a hop, skip jump away from them.
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's sad at all.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: And you know, I live in Connecticut, but I could
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: no longer do the commute back and forth. And I
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: said to my husband, I love you, our kids not
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: out of the house, but I can't do this anymore.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Eleven o'clock at night, I'm getting off the train with
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: my suitcase, my briefcase, not for me. So I a
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: little studio in the city and I walk to work,
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: he comes in, we go to the theater. That separation
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: is great.
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: I agree.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: I love that because we don't see them separate rooms.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: My husband is constantly traveling. I travel a lot. When
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: he's he doesn't. He goes into the office. But even
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: when he's home, he's in his home office. We're not
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: on top of each other. And I think that that
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: has been so hosting.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know what it is, you feel secure
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: in your marriage. If you feel secure in your marriage,
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: you don't get all upset. And having that space, in
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: my view, should be encouraged. My husband would take trips
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: with his friends. He's born in Sweden. They do these
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: wonderful ski trips.
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: They used to do with a group of friends. That's great.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: I bike with a group of judges and matrimonial lawyers.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: We have gone to Italy, We've gone to Czech Republic, Germany, Austria.
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: Wow week.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: And you want your partner to feel stimulated, that you
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: want them to be happy for you, that you're happy
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: and that you and I think that's you know, that's important.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: I think that well, that sort of answers that the
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: question I have. You know, living in what is it
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: called living apart together l A T couples or something?
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: You live in different states like some celebrities do that. Yeah,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: you don't think that, you think that's a bit that's a.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Little although I am because I'm in New York, he's
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: in Connecticut.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: But that's.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: You don't want to have too much distance, you know,
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: you want to have just enough that you are independent,
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: and you can. If you're independent in your marriage but
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: dependent on each other's love, you're going to have a
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: good marriage.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, yeah, I feel like that. I mean,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: I I The truth is I don't make the kind
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: of money that my husband makes. The money I'm bringing
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: in it's good, especially for someone who started a career
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: later in life, but it doesn't pay our mortgages.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: It gives you independence, yes, exactly, and I'm just really
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: appreciates and it does.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, he does. It's true. Tell me something that you
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: think people assume about divorce, that's that's not true.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: That it's the ending that I'm never going to find somebody.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: This is a miserable way for me to.
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: End my life. And I think that is the biggest
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: bunch of crap.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: I love that.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: It really doesn't have to be right.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: No, And I say, it's not an ending, it's an edit,
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: and you've got to learn. People have to learn how
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: to pivot. You know, we're very blessed. I say thank
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: you God every day I'm telling the children are helping
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: my grandchildren.
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: I work, I make money. Every day is a blessing.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: And if you have that attitude, then you also say, Okay,
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: I'm a big believer in having a notebook. I write
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: down things that I've got to get done, and I
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: encourage clients to do that because they get lost in
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: their depression. Write take your book, write down five things
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: you want to get done this week, and the satisfaction
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: of crossing off the things that you accomplished are great. Yeah.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: Step yeah, well another step yeah.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: In terms of writing things down and being prepared, what
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: advice do you give women before they head into your office? Right,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: what would you say that they need to get together?
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: You know, have at their fingertips before sitting down with you.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: So when I said be in the know, yeah, you
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: need to get all the financial information you can get
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: your hands on. One of the most revealing things, you know,
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: nobody's going to go through years of taxi turns or
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: years to credit cards. Did you and your husband get
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: a mortgage recently? Did you refinance a mortgage recently? Did
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: you buy some car recently? Because if you did and
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: you got financing, you put on that financial statement your
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: assets and your income right information right, because usually people
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: augment that. They don't minimize it because they want to
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: get the loan.
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: But it's a great.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Way to find out information, you know, nicely innocently. Also,
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: go with your husband to a trust in the state attorney.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: You're entitled to know, how am I going to be protected?
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: God forbid you die? How are the children and I
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: going to be protected? And in that forum, it's not threatening,
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: it's not a divorce. It's sharing of information. So there
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: are different ways that you could get information without triggering
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: an awareness that.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: Right, right, Yeah, that's it, And I would think also
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: it once you get into the attorney's office, listen, the
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: clock is running, and maybe if you're prepped, if you know,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: the attorney says we need this, we need this, I
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: have it, not that I.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Always you know when a client walks in and says, look,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: this is what my husband does. He's a hedge fund manager.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Here are the assets, list them out in a balance sheet.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: It's great because I have a baseline that we can
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: start from. But there are a lot of clients who
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: come in and say, I have no idea, right, I
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: don't even have my own bank account, my own bank account.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: What I have is access to a credit card. I
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: can spend two hundred thousand a month. Yeah wow, but
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: not one bank account, no assets in their name. Totally vulnerable.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: And that's why I said, before you ever ever talk
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: about divorce, talk about what you know. Here's what I know.
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: I know I have a c date, but this I know.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: We have a retirement accounts, I know the value of
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: my house.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: I found out that the mortgagees is why because every
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: time the mail comes in, I open it, I screenshot it.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Nobody questions me because why it's mail that comes to
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: both of us. Yeah. And you can do all of
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: these things not because you're preparing for divorce, but because
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: you are a partner entitled.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: To that information.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, I mean that makes sense if you have
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: a business, you were running a business, and would you
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: not open the mail and see what's going on, to
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: see if the bills were paid? To see what credit
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: line is, to see what new customers we had that
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: would be unimaginable. You are running a business, that's right.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: You're running a household, you're running children, and you're running
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: a business. Right.
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: You know it is that you're going to make sure
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: that you're knowledgeable about.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense. You know you mentioned screenshotting. I'm
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: just thinking about, like, we're in such a digital age
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: right now, and we put so much of our lives
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: onto social media. Yeah, and how much? What do you think?
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: What do you think?
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Is there anything not smart to share on social media?
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: A lot?
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: A lot? So social media can be very deceptive, right.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: I have Instagram. You have Instagram. I keep it to
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: the people that I know, you know, friends and close people.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: But if you're public, you want to be careful about
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: what you're putting out there. If you're getting divorced, you
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: want to be even more careful.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: So I have had clients who post everything.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: They post travel with their girlfriends, Their girlfriends post gifts
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: that they received, and the spouse gets access to that.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: So when a spouse says, hey, I didn't go anywhere
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: and travel, I was traveling for business. I don't have
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: a girlfriend, all of a sudden, you have examples and evidence.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: Right, that is a lie, right, And so you have
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: to be you have to be careful about what you
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: put out there.
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: For people sometimes who put out and they're sharers, right,
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: it's not to put their show offs. They're just sharers.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: So they put out information about their travels and the
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: beautiful hotels and the.
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: Gifts that they receive.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: And then it's putting out way too much information because
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: not everybody is happy for you, and you want to
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: share with people who are happy with you. So in
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: terms of a divorce litigation, there is a lot of
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: evidence in that social media that's so interesting and not
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: that not only in Instagram, Facebook, but we can get
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: access to your emails, we can get access to your
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: digital So if I serve a subpoena and I want
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: electronic discovery, and I ask for a cored order to
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: download your computer, ugh, what a mess. I can image
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: what was on your computer and you think you deleted everything.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: It lives on the server until you overdo it and
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: then it wipes it out. But that takes a long time.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: But that information during the course of a discovery in
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: a divorce case is accessible.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Let's say you're getting ready for divorce and can you
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: go and get all of your stuff wiped out? Can
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: you take your computer the Apple Store?
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: Well, you know what, a good forensic account knows that
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: you did that?
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: Well did they?
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: So they can say they could image your computer.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: And say it got wiped out? You did that intentionally? Now, okay,
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: so you did. What's the court going to infirm that there.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Was something wrong? But very hard to prove what was wrong?
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Right, right, So you will suggest doing that.
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: I'm not suggesting anything.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying that it can't that it can't be done.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: But as I just said, you.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Could retrieve like you think you wiped it out, but
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: if it lives on the server, it can be retrieved it.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: So that's a very technical question for good forensic investigators.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, we know elect discovery.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: We use those who are in the know. I had
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: a case many years ago as a terrible custody case
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: that represented the father and the mother had the children
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: put a flask drive into the father's computer. He had
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: a girlfriend and the kids innocently were on his computer
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: plane and they came across these photographs.
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, it's compromising.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: They shared it when they went home. Daddy has a girlfriend.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: We saw, well what pictures did you see? And innocently said,
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: and she taught them how.
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: To use the Lass drive.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: Next week after you know, their their access, they put
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: the last drive and all the pictures came down. Oh
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: my god.
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: And so we served it.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: We found out, we served a subpoena to retrieve her computer.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: We saw that she had, you know, had them download everything.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: That created really significant problems. A. It's criminal events. B.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: She could have lost the custody of her children.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Wow, So you've got to be careful about what you do.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: You've if you're getting a divorce, you do it in
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: a dignified way. And if you have a good lawyer,
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: they know exactly what to do. They what allows them
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: to do. They're aggressive, they can go after the information.
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you can't stop it.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: If I have a question, if someone I think, is
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: it different in every state? Does infidelity count to a judge?
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: If you're getting divorced in.
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: New York, it doesn't. You can screw six elephants and
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: the court couldn't get.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: No.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: You know, it's no fault.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: The only time they care is something is so egregious,
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: like there was a case where the husband thought the
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: wife was having an affair, and the whole case was
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: about this affair. But he lost control. He took dem
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: bells and he beat her nearly to death, her daughter God.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: And in that case, you know, fault was so egregious
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: that the court awarded him zero and he wanted money
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: for a criminal attorney because he was charged, and he
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: didn't get a penny.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: So in New York, no fault. Most of the states
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: now are no fault, and for good reason.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, country, it's a doubt how we're going to
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: protect you financially?
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: How are we going to protect right? Why is it?
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: You know, divorce is hard, right, obviously we're talking about this.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: There's a lot to it. Why do you think that
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: second marriages I've heard that the divorce rate is even higher?
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: Is that? First of all? Is that true? And why
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: do you think that is?
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: I think there's sometimes some complications with a second marriage.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Number one, you have blended families, and you have a
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: lot of conflict in those blended families.
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: Right, that reads a.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: Lot of animosity, a lot of stress, and that's difficult.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: You also have financial issues because you want to protect
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: your children from your first marriage, and that may not
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: sit well with your second wife. Right.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: On the other hand, you may.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: Have gotten out of a really bad marriage and now
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: you really want to enjoy your life. So I've seen
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: second marriages work brilliantly, beautifully because they really appreciate the person.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: And they may not have appreciated the spouse because they
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: was stressed with starting a business and children. But they're
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: at a different place now, so it really varies.
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: It depends. Yeah.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, you said you've been married over forty years Maryland.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: This year is forty.
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: So this year I'm turning seventy, celebrating forty years of marriage.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: My daughter's turning thirty five. My son is getting married
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: in Italy. Wow, so.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: Well all good?
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yeah, what do you think? I mean, I
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: know this is the question is maybe a little cliche,
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: but I want to know what you what do you advise,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: What do you talk to your kids about in terms
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: of how to keep a marriage strong.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: You know, it's really interesting. I never talked to him
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: about it ever. So my daughter got married, it's it's
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: seven years with two kids. She didn't want a prena, which.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: Was interesting for me.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: I think they grew up in a home and an
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: environment that was that taught them.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: It was nothing I had to say.
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: They saw it like what a blessing, and that was
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: the great And you know, it's interesting my parents were
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: Holocaust survivors and we grew up with the most amazing, loving,
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: dedicated parents, and I learned so much from them. How
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: my mother really dedicated her life to her kids. And
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: even though I worked, that was, that was and is
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: my first and most important priority.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: I see that with my two sisters who have raised
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: their families and their children. And I think it's generational.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: You know, when when you set a good example, you
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: learn right better than anyone telling you.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, would you have preferred that your daughter had a prenup? So?
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: Which I think it's especially like on our first marriage.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: It's such a delicate topic, right, but so I don't know,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: let's not make it specific to your daughter. Do you
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: suggest that women get a prenup? Is this something that
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: you would suggest going in I have.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: I happen to dislike prenups for a whole host of
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: reason because they can't be very unfair.
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: The example of it gave you right.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: They are important in second marriages because you have accumulated
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: a lot of wealth, yeah, that your partner did not
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: earn right, and you may want to protect that for
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: your children. And so you can be as generous as
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: you want during the marriage, but if things go south
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: in a second marriage, those assets deserve.
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: To be protected to have to be there.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Also, on the other hand, prenups are good wife sometimes.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: And I'll segue because Kelly gave us permission.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Let's first tell our listeners. So by the way, you
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: actually worked with our very own Kelly Bensimone on the
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: disillusion of her engagement.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: Yes, And so what I was going to say is
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: pre nups can be really good because you can find
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: out financial information that you didn't know. So if you're
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: with someone and every weekend you go out to this big,
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: beautiful house and Bridge Hampton, he picks you up in
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: a Ferrari, you.
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: Drive out there.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: You've gone to the south of France, You've gone.
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: To Sardinia for vacation.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: You have this incredible lifestyle and you think he's got
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: a lot of money. But then all of a sudden,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: you see that balance sheet when you're doing a pre
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: nap and you go, wait a minute, I thought you
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: own that house you're renting it. I thought that cart
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: was right. You've got a lease on it. You're getting
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: financial information. And Kelly, who was so gorgeous and so
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: full of life and devoted mother the best, built a
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: lot in her life. Yes, and she had found a
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: man that she wanted to marry.
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: And the first thing we said.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: He got a lawyer and I said, I need his
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: statement of network. Well, okay, well we'll get back to you.
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: And then a week passed and I said I need
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: a statement.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: Of net worth. I'm drafting.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: We meant, I have to have that information. Make a
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: long story short. He refused to provide any financial information.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: Red flag red red red.
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: So I said to her, what are you doing?
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if someone is not being forthcoming now before you're married, sure,
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: I can guarantee you you're never going to have the
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: transparency during the marriage.
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: But more importantly, if.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: He's not prepared to show you what he has, what
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: he's earning.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: Then he's looking to you to support you.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: Wow, she should not work for you. And she's smart
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: and it was hard and she said, oh my god, Marylyn,
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: absolutely you're right.
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, good And that was a smart move because.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: You look at red flags. You look at what's out
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: there that I'm not getting the information on. If I'm
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: not getting the information on when we're in love, I'm
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: certainly not going to get it when we're married. Yeah. Wow.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: So I just think this is invaluable, invaluable this. I
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: hope that a lot of our listeners catch this particular episode.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: And it was fun and it was fun, and I
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: hope I don't know if you've ever written a book.
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: Well, you know what, it's.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: Funny because I am writing two books. I don't a
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: proposal for one, and I'm doing a children's book. My
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: son and I it came to us while we were
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: driving in the car together. He's thirty years old, and
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: we started talking about something and boom, the light went
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: off and we said, let's let's do a children's book. Wow.
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: But the other book, it's basically shut Up and Settled.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: I love that. That's a great title.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: So I'm I'm i gotta I got to get up
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: at three in the morning.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: I'm you know, it's like I got to find that
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: little time.
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: But I'll get there.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I'm not planning on getting divorced, but
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: I will buy what I will buy it.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: My wonderful client just came out with a fabulous book
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: called Strangers, Bell Burden. It's It's made the New York
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: Times bestseller list and she wrote a book about her divorce.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: And I'm gonna tootor worn because it's.
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: As we should read.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, okay, yeah, there's a.
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: Lot of information.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: But I think, you know, you want to talk to
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: people that will share sharing. A lot of women share,
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: and that's a great thing. And I like those women
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: because the women you can spart your advice, and I
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: think that's important.
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: I do too.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: I find that I I friendships now as I've gotten older,
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: I'm a little I'm you know, I'm a little pickier,
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: but I definitely, but I definitely am drawn to women
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: that share because I'm such a sharer and I find
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: that that kind of vulnerability is how I connect. And
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: I'm not getting that back.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: It's then you're you're you're very nice.
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: But you're at a distance.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: Yep, that's exactly right.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: Well, the person really is open and appreciates you and
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: vice versa.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: Yes, thank you, and I agree.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: Do I get I want my people who are around me.
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: To be my special people?
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, me too.
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: Me too.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: Those friendships that are really not friendships, I put them
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: in a different category friendly.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: We're friendly. Yeah, they're just a yeah yeah. Well, Marilyn,
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: thank you so much.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: For coming, not talking to you. Great to meet you,
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: Please be welcome.
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: Bye.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: So are you trying to bounce back in your chapter
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: two after divorce? Do you need some help? Call us
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: or email us. All the infos in the show notes,
• 36:41
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• 36:44
  Speaker 1: the podcast I Do Part two and iHeartRadio podcasts where
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: falling in love is the main objective.