Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / Religious Horror: Part 2

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Religious Horror: Part 2 · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. Welcome to Steffan Never
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Told You Production, iHeartRadio, and welcome back to part two
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: of our look into religious horror. We know it's after
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Halloween as this comes out, but we always like talking
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: about horror and religion.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: You know, we have to fall back and everything's dark
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: and sad. Might as well keep going into that darkness.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: I did. I lit a candle, you know, to like
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: set the mood, and it exploded, like it went the
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: flame got really high.
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: Social did you say something three times?
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: No, I would never, but it freaked me out, Samantha,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: It honestly freaked me out. And I have been watching
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of these religious horror movies to prepare for this.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: I sse episodes.
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: I need a break.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of them as mentioned. Yeah, so
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: if you haven't listened to part one, go back and
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: check that one out. We are just going over some
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: of the major themes of largely religious horror movies, and
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: specifically Western Christian religious horror movies. A lot of them Catholic.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: But in the last episode we ended up talking about
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: marriage horror, and I said, you know, there's been a
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: lot of influx of movies around religion and grief and women.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: And so that's where we're going to pick up now,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: just with a very brief aside. I said, you know,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: I want I wanted to do a whole horror movies
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: and mental health episode it it just became too big.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: So this is just kind of a brief mention. But
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: there is this this thing that's been happening a lot.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: It's not new, but that we've seen a lot lately
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: of the motherhoods and religion and grief thing and how
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: that plays out in a horror movie scenario. A lot
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: of movies about praying hard enough to bring your child
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: back to life. You mentioned bring her back on the
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: last episode. That is a very similar theme the others,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: which was a movie I loved when I was young
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: with Nicole Kidman.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: This is also one of those movies that I watched
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: four times, not realizing i'd watched it four times. Yeah, yeah,
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: I started like, I've never seen this.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Have seen this one? Yes, yes, but every time I
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: didn't know. I feel like when I watched that, and
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: I've watched it, I watched it at least within the
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: past four years, because I watched it during the pandemic.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: I feel like when I watched that, I was so
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: young the first time, and I was reading a whole
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: paper about how religious it is because Nicole Kidsman character
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: is very religious and like has her children read these
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Bible passages and it's just very strict and in it
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: her children are allergic to light, so it just has
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: to be dark all the time. And maybe you remember me,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: I didn't recognize it, but like the whole like, let
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: there be light. The theme of the light always moving
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: is something big in the Bible. And then I just
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: was surprised there was so many things where like this
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: is from this part of the Bible, this is from
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: this part of the Bible, and just having them living
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: in the dark. What happens after death? As we mentioned,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: that's a big reason that these movies are popular, I think,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: and why they resonate is that we all are we
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: don't know what happens after death. But that was a
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: big theme in this movie Hereditary. Also, you've got a
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: loss of a kid and a cult thing happening, and
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: seeing the grief play out and the way that it
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: does and what it leads.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: To the creation of Annabelle has that Oh yeah, very
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: four or fine beginnings. Seeing of the Death of the Child,
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: I was like, A, that's unnecessary.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: I've seen that movie, but it's been a long time
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: so I don't remember.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: But yeah, sometimes I have to sit and like connect
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: these because when they try to go backwards to connect
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: these movies and I'm like, I need to find all
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: the faults. I have to try to figure out what
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: they're doing because I'm like very confused about because they
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: took the conjuring and then split it off into like
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: five different things which included and a bell and then
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: also the nun all these things, and I'm.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: Like, I don't know what's happening anymore.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: Anyway, Annabel Creation, they do have a loss of a
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: child with a lot of religious play and possession in it.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Creepy yeah, oh yeah, indeed uh also creepy. Oh and
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: again I should say none of these are sponsors. Also
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: kind of like what we talked about in our recent
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: horror movie round up for me, uh, I always look
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: these up before you watch them, and that's especially true
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: for this one. A dark song. This one it's about
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: a woman whose child has died and she finds an
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: occultist and like remote England, and he has her go
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: through these like horrific things that he says bring her
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: child back, or bring the angel back, that can bring
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: her child back. And it's it's really gross because you
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: can't tell what he's just like making her do to
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: see what he can make her do versus what it's
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: actually true. It does have a really cool end scene,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: I have to say, but yeah, it's it's that same
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: idea of like the grieving mother willing to do all
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: kinds of things to try to bring her child back.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: I'm having memories of a movie as you talk about
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: this as well, like she was pregnant, goes on a walk,
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: loses a baby, gets stalked by something, and then there's
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: a box, a jewelry box, do you know what I'm
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: talking about. I feel like this is part of our
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: guessing game in my I watched this one movie but
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: and she's like about to be a mother, but I
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: think she loses the baby, but then she gets possessed.
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: And ends up having a demon.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: Oh that does sound familiar, but could mean I've seen.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: So many so yeah, so the movie I'm talking about
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: is malicious. I just looked it up, y'all, and it
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: doesn't have a great rating. But I do remember, like
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: she unleashes to go like a demon and it like
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: gets inside of her. Bit there's so many things happening
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: in this one, and I think it's a cyclical thing
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: because it kind of gets inherited to the next person
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: if I remember.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: But it's a woman who loses her baby ends up
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: getting a demon instead willing to die for it and
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: willing to let everyone else die for it. There you go.
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: But yeah, grief like that.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: We've talked about this continuously, Like how we've also talked
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: about this in like Scarlet Witch or where she's willing
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: to destroy the entire world and all of those around
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: them for her children that no longer exist. Like it's
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: kind of that same like a grief and loss is
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: that the women are allowing evil in order to do this.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: Where does that go into the reproductive justice line? Who knows?
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have to. Okay, So we did our episode
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: on the blair Witch Project and in it I mentioned
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: I had seen blair Witch too, but I couldn't remember it.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: I rewatched it right before this, Samantha, and wow, what
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: a film. WHOA A lot going on there? But it
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: does have the loss of a child in it, and
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: that person is the one that's painted as the as
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: the villain. She is the one that's like basically they're like,
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: how did you kill that child? And it was very
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: like for a movie that was I was mostly laughing
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: aloud at I was like, oh, gosh, upsetting.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: I think that's what it gets to some of these things,
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: like and why we're talking a little more about the
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: religious horror and how it like really does portray a
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: lot of mothers and women in general, Like.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: It gets to the point that it's like, why are we.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: Entertaining this tag like entertaining this subject line or entertaining
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: this plot line, because it's so disturbing on such a
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: level that you were like, this is demeaning in so
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: many ways, and I'm not sure who was domaning anymore.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, and the only reason I watched that movie
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: for I've watched it for this because it came up
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: in an article I read and they're like, you know,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: it's actually fascinating because it's in the author's opinion, was
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: supposed to paint like how we villainized Heather from the
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: first movie which you and I both talked about. The
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: woman and it became here's how we villainized her. H
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: And they the reason also it comes up is they
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: were calling her a witch, and that is going we're
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: going to get more into witches in our religious horror
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: part in a second. But but they kept saying, you know,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: she's the witch, and they just and that was the
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: main reason why. And it was just she could convince
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: them otherwise. And it's at least according to that article,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: they thought it was interesting how everybody else was in
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: the end they think supposed to be in the villain
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: and she was the one that was. They killed her,
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: Killed her, it happened.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean that again, so many of these
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: things we're talking about you could extrapolate outside of religious horror.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: But because in our country and a lot of other places,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: when you're talking about birth or marriage or anything like that,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: it does have a religious aspect and it has for
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: a long time. So this idea of mother's grieving, it's
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: often painted as sort of a failure on their part,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: like they did something wrong and that is why.
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: They've allowed this spirit in or something.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, they did not protect their children and they
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: were weak m h. Yeah, they they might have fled
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: the Demon.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Is exactly exactly, and like, I think it's interesting because
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: I was thinking about that with like loss and grief
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: in that about like single motherhood, because I'm like, you
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: know what a lot of these movies actually exemplify or
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: the absence of the father, like they travel all the time,
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: He's gone all the time, all these kind of narratives.
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: Some of the movies I was thinking about was like.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: Bless the Child, which I've really loved that movie as
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: a kid. I'm not really sure why it wasn't super scary.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: It wasn't super like you had this angelic and instead
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: of an Antichrist, because she could have been, she could
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: also be the Hope, the new like Jesus. It was
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: an interesting take on that. And yes, Catholicism is very
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: much involved in this one as well.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: Rufus Seewell, I believe his name.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: He was an evil guy in all so many movies
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: the holiday, including That's Christmas Time though we already talked
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: about that, but yeah, and then Baba Duck, which is
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: not necessarily religious, but like we were talking about previously,
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: not all of them are religious, but it does have
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: like that religious tone when it comes like demons. Like
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: the demons is a connotation that there's something evil, so
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: spirituality isn't there. But like you've got the single mother
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: with supposedly and a neurodiversent child who like kind of
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: helps perpetuate her stresses. And then you have like the
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: Curse of the Lalla Na. I had to look that
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: one up because it's based on motherhood and child loss
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: as well. Again, I believe it's also based on Catholicism
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: because that is also part of the conjuring world.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Right Ooh, I don't know, is it.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: I think it might.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: Director, yeah, but I think it might be. Somebody might
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: correct me again. The second conjuring we have the one
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: the Haunting in England, and she is a single mother
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: newly divorced. The kids are really upset, and the one
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: of the things they say in that movie is, oh,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: you were open.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: This type of tragedy opened you up to possession.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmm again, and.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: Then you also have poultrygeist, which is not necessarily religious,
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: but it is. But she is a single mother that
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: does everything to get that child. It's been a long time.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: That's just the trailers of that movie freaked me out.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: And also all of the.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Bad vibes that happened on set onset, including the death
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: of one of the child stars.
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: I'm like, that movie is a no for me?
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Was it too? I knew it was a young world
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: for sure, but now the other the older girl was murdered,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: but they so they weren't divorced, but the dad was
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: away all the time.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like like she was kind of left alone with
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: the child as well as Carrie who the connotation was
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: maybe either she had her at a wedlock or she
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: was raped.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: Like I could never understand the mother's hate for this child.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: There's so much this, but you.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: Have so many narratives of single motherhood, like as part
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: of the problem. Again, there are different points as it's
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: because they aren't able to fulfill the completion of family,
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: Like that's the conversation. So therefore the family is very vulnerable.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: They do not have the perfect family or set up
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: or complete familyhood. Or is it that they're the most
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: likely to survive these scenarios. We have this conversation about
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: women outliving men.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: Why I was leaving outliving their husbands and then having
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: like their actual second perk in life. But uh oh,
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: this means that.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: You might be set up to be haunted and possessed,
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: or perhaps is it that men can come and save them,
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: so they have to have a prop up in order
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: to be saved by.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: A man, which oftentimes doesn't happen. They just end up dying.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: The men end up dying, is what I've seen.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, are they coming too late? And it's like, yeah,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: why are you even?
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: Why are you here if you're watching the none the
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: one priest the Eyes and the second one spoiler alert?
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: And I was like what without even making an appearance.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're just like he's dead. Oh sorry, I could
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: have really used his self all right, twelve.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: I was like, okay. And by the way, the second
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: nun has a single mother as well, Oh yeah, it
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: does kind of the heroins to it. Mm hmm, but
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: there's still single mother in this plot, like who is
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: possibly going to be taken by evil spirit by the
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: man that she's interested in.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Row Well, see, okay, I don't want Darella's so very
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: quickly I watched The Nun and the Nun To last
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: night because you had mentioned that you did, and I
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: was like, I feel like I've seen them, but I
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: can't remember I had you had.
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: It's one of those for you.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, the second one, I was like, no, immediately,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: I knew I'd seen that one for some reason. The
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: first one I don't know, but I had also recently
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: because it has been October and Halloween and I have
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: these YouTube series I watch that are just scary videos,
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: and had recently seen. We are going to get more
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: into the Conjuring later, but I had recently seen the video,
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: the first videotaped Extracism of Maurice, which is it the
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: thing exists, It exists, and it's like it looks exactly
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: like it in the movie. And I did not know
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: that the first time I saw the nun or the Conjuring,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: but now that I've seen it, I was like, oh
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: my gosh. And so I was like, oh, that his
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: wife is there. You know. We'll get into this more later.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: But she has her own what she says happened. But
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: according to her, she was never possessed. She was just
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: there helping him out.
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: Okay, okay, okay, but she said that he was possessed.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we'll according to her again, according to her.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: Interesting, I didn't realize it was also based on that.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, when I saw the video, I was like, Oh,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: that's immediately that is I've seen that. It looks exactly
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: like it.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: Interesting. But anyway, so the second nun has a single mother.
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: I thought that was a yeah, so does he marry her?
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Is that they're married, they're married, and oh she lived
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: long after they had the daughter. M I don't. I
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: don't remember that, but I just I think so.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: But he had a stepdaughter or something.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but no, that's definitely based on that thing.
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: Well again this universe.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Who knew that makes sense?
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: But I thought this was interesting because I did find
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: an article in this specific conversation. Now he's not necessarily
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: talking about religious horror, but he is talking about horror
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: and single mothers. So the article is titled mother, Oh Godmother,
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Analyzing the Horror of Single Mothers in Contemporary Hollywood Horror
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: John Lewis, And this is uh.
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: He wrote for the University of Nottingham in the UK.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: You know, he writes, I argue that as single parents,
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: the life choices these women make, regardless of whether they
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: have never been married or married and divorced or married
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: and widowed, can be interpreted as catalysts for horror in
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: these films. By presenting the view with the horror of
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: an ineffectual or monstrous single parent mothers. However, I explore
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: the way in which these films also offer self consciously
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: critical explorations of patriarchy and the dominant ideologies that suppress
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: women as well as others who resist definitions within patriarchal frameworks.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: So in his actual article he used comparing I believe
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: the Ring sixth Sense and Babba.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Duke other Ring.
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I do talk but it's not
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: necessarily religious.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: It kind of is cultish, So I did we're not
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: talking much about Eastern because I did think about that
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: as well as like an Exuma, as well as The Wailing,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: and as well as again the Ring. They do have
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: a horror level of religious Yeah, antics of like cultish
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: to things.
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: But again that's a digression that we're not getting into here, however,
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: because it's not Christian based. This is all very like
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: Eastern religious based.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: Back into But I did find that interesting in his
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: conversation when he was comparing these like women who are
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: single motherhoods and everybody. He in the article talks specifically
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: about how, yes, the degradation of the conservative family because
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: these women are doing this alone and dare to survive
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: without a man present. Of course you have in the
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: sixth sense a man present, but kind of.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, he's you know, halfway there.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: She doesn't acknowledge him. So there's that.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: But then we have like The Ring, you do have
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: a male character, but he is useless and soon dead.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah A watch that too.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: And you really don't have any male characters, and that
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: except the Bubba Duke.
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm assuming he's male. I don't know, maybe he is.
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: That's the whole point.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: Well, and I won't go too much into this, but
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: it did cause quite a firestorm. As the recent movie
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: The Woman in the Yard.
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I have not watched that.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: Well, essentially, there was kind of a tragedy in the
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: man of the family. The father was lost and a
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: woman is trying to raise her kids, and you have
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: this entity that is growing closer and closer, and it's
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: kind of an ambiguous ending, but I believe the viewers
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: meant to decide whether or not, because the woman in
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: the Yard is death, whether or not she takes her
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: own life or stays with her kids. And it calls
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: this whole thing of people being like well, and that
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: was one of the reasons I wanted to talk about
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: mental health and horror movies, but it's because it caused
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of conversation about that. But it also was like,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: you know, this whole idea that it has been women
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: who stay strong and keep fighting, and this was if
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: you're saying what we think you're saying, that's kind of upsetting,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: right right, Yeah, I don't know. There's a lot of
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: back and forth about that movie.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: So that's interesting, No, But I find I found this
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: conversation really intriguing in that why why do they need
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: so many single mothers or at least like absent father movies?
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Is that it should be a connotation about men, but
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: instead it's this conversation that it seems that the women
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: fail or fall apart without men, and they allow for
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: again a weakness in this in this conversation, in this move,
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: I did think about that with like, if you look
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: at again Annabelle, the first one with the uh, I
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: guess her origins into the doll if you know, you know,
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: he's not not absent, but he's definitely not there. He's
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: not dead or gone, but he's definitely absent. A lot
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: a lot of the things that happened to her when
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: he's gone. Yeah, in her mother in her beginning in
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: Adventures in Motherhood Alfred Woodard, she comes in as kind
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: of a mentor has to sacrifice herself because she lost
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: a child.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: As well as her husband.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: Like, there's so many conversations in this level of like, Okay,
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: what is this narrative? Why does it have to be
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: that this weak link is the opening of all this
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: religious horror. Again, if you look at Catholicism, if you
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: look at religious Westerner religion in itself, the ideal is
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: and even the setup and when we talked about our
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: religious trauma is the completion of man woman unity, like,
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: which is completely absurd because it's like the Church is
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: not a woman. Jesus sure probably was a man and
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: God is neither. So but this Holy Trinity conversation of
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: the completion of family, this is what it is, the
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: marriage between a man and a woman. So without the man,
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: women will fall because women are the beginning of sin.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: They are the weak link. And it's this kind of
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: whole long prelude. But at the same time, and if
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: you look at this dude's article and agree, like they're
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: the ones that survive it, the ring goes into the
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: ring too, and she's like, ah, I know how to
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: get rid of this.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna let someone else die.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: She says, I'm not your freaking mother exact.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: But you know that's kind of that level of like
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: they have to so maybe it is a fight against this.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: But again it is that conversation of which way are
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: we looking at.
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: Single motherhood?
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and another movie again, We're just gonna have to
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: come back and do a whole separate episode on Eastern
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: religious horror. But dark Water came up a lot in
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: that conversation too, because it's a lot about grief and
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: single motherhood and trying to raise this kid, and a
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: lot of it is kind of a it feels like
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: a manifestation of a mental like depression or something like that. Like, right,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: that's what a lot of the those horror movies do
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: is it makes you think like is this real or
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: is this? Is she okay? But that is a big
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: that is a big theme in all of this. Another
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: thing like this is a huge topic we're going to condense,
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: but cults and witches.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Actually be in this on episode because we were talking
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: about that, like there's too many, Yeah.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: There are and we have talked about witches so much
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: in in media, in media specifically. Yeah, but when we're
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: talking about this religious horror episodes, I mean, yeah, it's
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: a ton, but I think some of the ones that
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: stood out to me. The Vitch, which we did do
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: an episode on Conjuring three specifically deals with witches. I
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: just watched what Oh yeah, we're going to get into
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: that in a second. Yes, the Other Land, which is
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: an older, kind of more obscure movie, but this was
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: a very like it was a cult movie about It
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: was a very feminist cult movie where all the women
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: started to realize that their male cult leader was maybe
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: not very good. Oh heretic. Oh my gosh.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: I hadn't been ready for that one.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, I think that I just want to say this,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: This outline is just a lot of random thoughts that
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: we all had. We had, so I'm not sure why
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: I've put it here specifically, but I think it's because
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: in that movie, Hugh Grant's character believes religion, all of
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: every religion is a cult. Everything is your being brainwashed,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: I guess. So it was sort of an interesting take
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: on this because I don't think that's a spoiler at
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: all if you watch the trailer. But he's the bad guy.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: But he basically is trying to prove how smart he
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: is and how right he is, and is trying to
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: trick these two young Mormon girls who came to his door.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: And he's not a good guy. He's just not a
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: good guy. And he's also a liar, and his.
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: Point give it away.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: There are so many things in that movie where later
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: I read an article on it and was like, immediately,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: his wallpaper should have told you. And I looked at it,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, you're right.
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: These glasses immediately tell me he's the bad guy.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's no good, he's no good. But I do
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: think it's interesting that even in that case where he
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: is a very strong atheist, like anti religion, it was
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: still about he was attacking women, I mean, and he
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: had been like because he thought they were stupid and
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: he thought they were easily manipulated. And so even in
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: that case, you have this idea that because even with witches,
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: it's you know, they're in the religious horror, since it's
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: usually that they are manipulated by the devil or they're
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: too weak to withstand evil. In the case of the
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: other lamb. It's that they're too weak to withstand this
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: man's charisma who's telling them what to do. And as
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: we've discussed, as I mentioned earlier, like this whole idea
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: of like the Blair Witch Project, you see this blaming
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: women thing happen over and over again in our society.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Outside of horror movies, we have the burn the witch
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: blaming women idea. You can see our episode on Cassandra
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: for that, which was not Western Christianity but still relevant.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: And I do Yeah, I don't need to remind anyone
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: who's listening to this show, but this is a real
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: thing that happened that left thousands of people around the
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: world and throughout history dead, mostly women. Of you're a witch.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: You can't prove otherwise, we shall burn you alive.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: If not, God will protect you exactly.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Oh oh, I won't get into it, but I just
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: saw this post on next door that my blood was boiling.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: But basically it was like God will protect you. You don't
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: need to worry about it.
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: Like, okay, well tell me about snap bit. If it's
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: I'll punch the body.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: It was that it was that anyway, you mentioned weapons,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: So weapons is like one of the most popular horror
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: movies that came out this year. Not to spoil it
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: at all, but there is a character who is a woman.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: These kids go missing and she is blame.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: She is.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: They graffiti witch on her car and just everybody we
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: see these kind of modern witch hunts in not every
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: like all kinds of things. And it's interesting. I read
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: a paper about religious horror. How it's interesting that, you know,
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: a lot of movies we talk about are very women
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: coming together to form a coven, and that's very positive.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: But in religious horror, a lot of times the witch
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: is bad, which is bad, and that has been something
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: that we have seen historically, and that is this idea
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: that the witch deserves whatever comes.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: By little children.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Spoilers, Yeah, I wasn't ready for that.
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: There was so many things I wasn't ready for in
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: that movie. We just let you know.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: It's from the same people who did Barbarians. So yeah. Anyway, Also,
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting, slash upsetting to me how men
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: have usurped this because I feel like women are still
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: getting to like blame the witch, burn the witch in
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: our very like modern era of sheese wrong, I don't
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: like her whatever, whereas men use it as like it's
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: just a witch hut, everybody's out to get me, when yeah,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: you probably did do the thing man so and then
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: some yeah. So that's frustrating, but that is also that
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: has been a part of our religion and is a
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: big theme in religious horror. For another time. But I
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: had a whole Star Wars aside I was going to
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: go into right here, but I'm just not going to
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: do it. This is already going pretty long. But I
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: will come back to that. Well, life day is coming up,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: so maybe that will be my life day gift. Another
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: thing that we did talk about very briefly in a
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Monday Mini when I was by myself because Samantha had
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: COVID is the idea of who gets possessed in these
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: movies possession horror. When you're talking about that again, when
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: you're talking about Western Christian religion, it's usually little girls.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Are women getting possessed for things like they dare to
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: use a Ouiji board, puberty, mental health, corrupted innocence, And
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: I have to say, like, again, I'm not religious, i
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: haven't been a long time, but it is a scary
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: idea that one day something could take over your body.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: It also relates back to the loss of body autonomy
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: and reproductive for rights that we talked about in part one.
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: What is that movie with a mirror oculus?
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was an intensive one with the mental health stuff,
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: with the we don't know what you can believe, the
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: Luigi board, and then like.
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that one was really flip flipped you out.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: And then you also have no body autonomy because you
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: were like watching things happen that you did not know
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: you were doing.
• 32:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very very scary, and you know, in this
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: case it can also be a metaphor for sexual assault
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: as well. But it has for a long time been
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: something is wrong with these usually young girls, and it's demonic,
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: that's all it can be. And so who do you
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: bring in? Who do you call to save them? Usually
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: religious men who are allowed a position that women are
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: not women cannot be a priest or whatever it is.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: So it's it's men who come in to save these
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: young girls, which I think is really interesting giving the
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: reality of the Catholic churches cover up of sexual abuse.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: But also that they are powerful enough to be possessed
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: in kill things, but not powerful enough to like stop
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: right without the assists of a man.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: Right, and the man like the idea of it's like
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: a man has to come in save this girl's innocence.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: I don't again, I like these movies I have. I
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: underside the critiques. I think it's good that we have
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: them and know about them. But I do like these movies, right.
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: So some big examples of this are The Exiorcist, The
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: Last Exorcist, the taking of Deborah Logan Sinister, the Conjuring Stigmata,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: which I'm going to get into that in a minute.
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: But there are some notable exceptions, so hereditary and paranormal activity.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: That's where the demon prefers the male host, that the
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: demon thinks that the male host is superior to a women.
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: So those are sort of exceptions. So is Rosemary's Baby,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: I guess. Notably, all of these movies don't explicitly deal
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: with Christianity. There are like signs and symbols sometimes, but
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: it's not really the focus. Even the non Satanist man
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: in Rosemary's Baby hands Rosemary over to the Satanist after
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: she trusts him, implying men are the problem, not necessarily religion,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: which is given the creator and what happened with that interesting.
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: Probably his own true story.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Something trying to work itself out. In the Exorcist, non
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: religious medical establishments don't believe Reagan, who's the young girl
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: who gets possessed, or her mother, and they perform incredibly
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: painful and invasive tests on them. So there's been a
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: lot of papers recently. We're just articles about how those move.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: That movie is all. It's as much about demon possession
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: as it is about medical profession not believing women, because
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: that is really upsetting scenes in the whole thing where
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: nobody believes them. And then yeah, as mentioned, we're gonna
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: have to come back and do the kind of mental
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: health religion part outside of this, But that was also
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, like if you look at the Exorcist, they
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: were very much this is just a mental health issue.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: This can't be like nobody, not even the religious people
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: didn't believe her, the medical professional people didn't believe her.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: And that has been when we've been talking about grief
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: and all of that stuff. It's a big theme. I
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: also wanted to just mention seven, the movie seven, because
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: it uses the seven Deadly sins and I think like
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: a part of that film is also the kind of
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: famous what's in the box, like using women to insider
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: reaction to get these sins out of people.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: I don't definitely use he like the character the villain
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: hated women, like the whole like raping of women with
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: a spear that was probably like I think God didn't
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: show it, but like the ideal of that as a punishment,
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: I was like, what the hell, Like the level that
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: they stretched in how they could torture women in these
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: types of movies, and also her being pregnant, It was
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: like they wanted to add all of the things to
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: make you know that how much he hated and despised women.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: I don't not necessarily the writer, not necessarily the director
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: or all that, but like the storytelling was in that reference,
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: and not even the hero could help in this level.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: And it feels like a lot of these where we
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: see possessions like that, it usually ends with some type
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: of horrific death or regret yep.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Yeap.
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: That is it is that catalyst of.
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: Like, yeah, even the good ones, you know, like like
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: we have to use this as a source of ache yep,
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: to see how horrifically we can punish women or marginalized
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: people in general.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, yeah, yeah, And I mean in something like
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: the Anxious is like they both both men die trying
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: to save this child and then father Caros comes back
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: in the third one, which the third one is also
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: very scary and has it does have the threatening of
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: the daughter where the demon's trying to kill the daughter.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: But but I mean, it is kind of usually a
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: violent death, and maybe it's like the man that's like
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: I found my faith and then dies that brings us
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: to religious superheroes.
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: And then that religious superheroes here.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: We yes, so I would say the Conjuring is probably
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: the biggest example, but the Exorcist is a big one,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: and yes, bonus points if they're facing doubt about the
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: modernization of faith and realize that no Satan Israel oh.
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: So.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: Professor of Religious Studies at Iowa State University, Hector Avalos
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: argues that while a lot of these religious horror films
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: may rely on popular religious tropes because they know that
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: they scare us that we recognize them, other creators actually
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: believe them and use it as a tool. So here's
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: a quote about his thoughts from a Vice article called
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: why are so many horror films Christian Propaganda? And this
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: article is by Josiah hess Avlos points to twenty thirteen
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: is The Conjuring, the true story tale of Christian ghost
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: Hunters that has since developed a franchise of spinoffs, which
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: closes with text quoted from the real life ghost Hunter.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: The film as based ram diabolical forces are formidable. These
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: forces are eternal, and they exist today. The fairy tale
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: is true. The devil exists, God exists, and for us
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: as people are very destiny hinges upon which one we
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: elect to follow. The article goes on to point out
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: that The Conjuring was specifically marketed towards faith based institutions.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: I actually try to get into this because when I
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: was in China there were certain things that couldn't be shown,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: and I remember religious movies were part of it. And
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: I tried to see if that's true now, because I
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: was curious if, like, you're right, did the Conjuring, because
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: that's a that's a I saw Iron Man two there
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: and after I walked out, I was like, that is
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: definitely not the movie that played in America. I don't
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: know what, but yeah, I was just curious. If listeners know,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: please write in. But I thought that was interesting. I've
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: never really thought about it, and that article is specifically
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: taking issue with the true story part, not just with
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: this but with other religious horror movies that do this.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: Because it is true that something, there is something that
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: happened that to imply like the whole thing is true
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: gives you the whole like oh, the one that there
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: must be a demon.
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: Then well, they're true love story that immeasurable. They cannot
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: be separated, they cannot all these things. I'm like, they
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: are really pushing this narrative that they were the best
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: Christian couple because according to the news articles and like
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: background talk of people who knew them, that was not
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: who they were, this kind gentle loving, like perfect couple
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: with the perfect kids that I'm like, they're really using
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: that trope to say how amazing their marriage, Catholic marriage
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: is because not only are they like but they are
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: the perfect practicing Catholics as well as like the perfect
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: duo who she's behind her man, who lets him lead.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, that whole like stereotype in that like I'm
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: the quiet head, but I'm behind my husband, pushing him
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: for to be the best man he can be. But
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: he's the leader in our family. He speaks for us,
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: and he takes over and can be the only one
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: that talks these demons out.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: It's a real interesting.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Propaganda of that level that I'm like, what that is
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: to the point that I'm like, this is making it
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: not believable.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: Well, okay, here's my big here's my big spoiler alert. Okay,
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: I watched I watched The Newest Conjuring, the Last One,
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: Last Rites, and I again, I really enjoy these movies.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: I understand every critique. I'm like, yes, I get it.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: So I'm not saying sure, yeah, but I do enjoy them.
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: It could be because I was just raised in this.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but uh so Last Rites has a
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: whole because they have a daughter, Judy, and it has
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: a whole scene about how she almost died when she
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: was born and she's living on borrowed time. I guess,
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: like this demon is coming for her.
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: They finally turned that like because they have they use
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: that kind.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: Of like yeah, she's always in yeah.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, their daughter has always kind of been in danger
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: and and and you know, in the end, their family
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: comes together and like faces their demons, shall we say,
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: but uh and she kind of gets possessed, going back
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: to actually, now that I think about it, yeah, kind of.
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: But it was interesting to me because at the end
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: it says thanks to Judy, so I guess had been
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: involved or it had signed off on this, but it
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: also has you know, they have the kind of yellow
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: text at the end, as we mentioned, and it said
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: something like Ed and Lorraine Warren, you know, we're very
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: controversial in what they did and their lives. But they
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: were and they said, you know, I don't know the
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: first or non ordained demon al like, they gave a
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: bunch of things. But I just thought it was interesting
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: that they had a note that was like, no, they
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: were very controversial.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: We had to come back and address thise because now
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: all this is coming about, Yeah, do.
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: You like people being like we did not like them.
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: They used us like all yeah, they're.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: Like again, like they're not necessarily true in that way,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: but it is true that there are people behind the
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: stories that they are telling, and who knows how they
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: were treated or their story was told, or how they
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: were manipulated. I don't know, I have no idea, but
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: the idea that it's like a true story will make
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: you think, ah, yes, okay.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: Well that's the perfect ending that happened with the Conjuring
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: two when the little girl saying, y'all are my best
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: friends and you believe me, And then later on the
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: little girls like, hey, no, this is not what happened.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: They used us, They did not listen to me. They like,
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: I'm like whoa, And then her life was not great. Yeah,
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: after the fact, and like, like the history with that
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: family was not pretty. Like they would do a lot
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: of rough things after the fact, and like they got
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: made fun of and they got ridiculed after they left,
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: Like Lorraine Warren and the Warrens did fine doing their
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: own thing, but they never got any you know, not
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: that they're they're indebted to them or any way, but
• 44:29
  Speaker 2: like things were not going great for them, and according
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: to some of the stories, they're like, yeah, we were
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: not close.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well you know, Okay. The interesting thing about this
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: is I stumbled upon what I thought was a horror movie,
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: but it was a BBC news story and it was
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: it was like a kind of modern day I think
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: it was an eighties or something World of the World's
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: where they did like a Halloween broad cast where they
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: were pretending that they had stumbled upon this ghost in
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: this house or this possession of this house. When I
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: was watching it, I was like, this is the Conjuring too.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: This is exactly the story of the Conjuring Too. And
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: I got I looked it up and they were like, yeah,
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: that's where it came from. Yeah, oh okay, but apparently
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: it scared everybody that's this is real, which is kind
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: of what we're talking about here right right.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, it is interesting again, like when you see
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: these superheroes bigger than life, and again they're portrayed by
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: someone as great as the two actors that play that,
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: Patrick Wilson. He's kind of noted as being thus far
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: a good man, like, supportive of his wife, been faithful, like,
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: even with him becoming famous in these roles as being
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: like the super dad, the superfather, the super husband, like,
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: he seems to be this endearing guy. So everybody really
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: latched onto him being this Warren.
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: Character as well.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: And it is interesting that you have that narrative because
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: they make sure to play this up because the way
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: Conjuring is as successful as this is the true the
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: based on true story type of conversation is the director
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: who came in immediately was like, we're going to do
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: these new jumps, these new scarers, these possessions, this collapse,
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: the random child running from room room, which he loves
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: to do, by the way, ball rolling random.
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, random kid giggling, stop that anyway.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: But with all of that, but you have this narrative
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: of this power couple who are superheroes of the Catholic
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: world who's figured out this demon thing.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I was thinking about this. I'm not
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: really sure how to articulate it well, but I was
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: thinking about it when I was watching the second one, particularly.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: A lot of times they involve like the Warrens come
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: in to a family that is going to pain, struggle whatever,
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: and kind of you know, fixing things around the house,
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: making breakfast, like all of.
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: These things the follow a figure exactly.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: And I was thinking about how when I was a kid,
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: I used to get like a little kid crushes that
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: didn't mean anything, but I would get kid crushes on
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: like a teacher who would do that or a doctor
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: who would do that. And so it makes sense to
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: me that when people watch this, you see this couple
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: that seems really loving and know each other so well,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: and then you see them caring for these other families
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: and being like, you know, I wish I had somebody
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: that would come into my life and would be like,
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: you know what, let me make you breakfast and let
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: me fix your your piping. I can do that right.
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: Again, like he brings in safety. They brought in safety
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: somehow it's built like when they had that scene with
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: the breakfast, it's like it's not felt this warm or
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: like home in a long time.
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: Or when he.
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: Plays a song to remember the father who loved music
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: and they hadn't had that home in a long time.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: But he brings in that safety because once again, when
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: we talk about completion of family, there must be a
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: father who was present. And even in the first conjuring,
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: he's gone a lot at the beginning because he's a
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: truck of providing for the family.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And it's also I would say, here comes
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: this they're not technically part of the Catholic Church, but
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: they're part of the Catholic Church. They come in and
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: they give you this a here a belief safety Like
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: in the first one. I always remember so clearly when
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: he's like your children aren't baptized, like you know, it's
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: just like this idea of the church will bring you
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: this right comfort and this safety from this darkness that
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: you can't explain, can't get rid of. Don't know what
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: it is, probably a witch or a demon or both.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: The first one kind of famously both.
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: A wish who turned into a demon.
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: Yep, yep, exactly exactly, And so I also wanted to
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: mention this. I have not seen the second Black Phone movie.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: I saw the first one, and I've seen Sinister, and
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: they're done by the same folks and writer. See, Robert
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: Cargill told Polygon the minute in audience sits down for
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: a horror movie, everybody in that audience is Christian. If
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: there's a demon in the movie, everyone's immediately like, yes,
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: reading from the Bible can chase it away. Yes, Hell
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: is a real place. Yes, of course the devil can
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: impregnate a woman. You can have a child of the devil.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: That makes total sense. And then they get up and
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: leave it all there in the movie theater. It doesn't
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: matter what religion you are when you sit down for horror.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: Christianity is baked into our horror to the point where
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: people understand and acknowledge the rules. So we knew we
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: could just say it out loud. So I thought This
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: was really interesting because the people involved in these movies
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: are religious and they've said that they are. But I
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: also think it's interesting that he said, like, you can
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: sit down watch that movie and then leave it, but
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: like you kind of know because it is we do
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: recognize those things. But the whole article was interesting because
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: at least according to this, they were very this is
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: what we believe. But if you just sit down, watch
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: this movie and then leave, that's okay with us.
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: Like you do you?
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you do. I'm sure there's probably more I could
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: dig into it. I didn't. I guess now that I
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: think back on it, Sinister, I had already clocked as
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: being something I might talk about in this outline, but
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: the black Phone I hadn't really, And now that I
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: think about it, I'm like, okay, yeah, because it's very
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: like Heaven and Hell.
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: Semester. I'm trying to remember. I just thought that was
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: a lot about family.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: It is. It's kind of like Culty family thing gone wrong,
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: where he's spending more time trying to write his book
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: and look into these things and his family goes Yeah,
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: it goes off the rails. Shall we say? That movie
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: is frequently in the like top five spots of scariest
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: movies of all time.
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: So I can't remember it.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: I've seen it twice, and every time I watched it,
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: I was like, again, I've seen this one.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Well they usually measure that by heartbeat,
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: and I think a lot of things can do heartbeat.
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: Too much slushies, yeah.
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: Literally eating too much could do it to you. So
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying, Okay, so again we're gonna have to
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: come back to non Western religious movies. But I did
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: want to include here the flip of when the religious
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: person is bad, those exit, those do exist, The Last Extracism,
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: the Sacrament, Stigmata, Saint Mont, The Last of Us, Yes,
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: and Martyrs, just the whole movie. So this is a
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: French film that was created by Pascal Lanier who was
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: experiencing a depression. He was experiencing depression and suicidality at
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: the time he wrote it and was inspired by Catholicism
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: and sainthood. Very basically, the film involves a group of
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: people who torture women to get the secrets of the afterlife,
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: and they call these women martyrs because of their suffering.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: Only it never works and they've only created victims Lanier
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: has said he wanted the audience to feel and bear
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: witness to real pain, like they actually put the definition.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: I've watched this movie. They put the definition of martyrs
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: on there, and it's like to bear witness and quote
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: share it as part of an honest process of communion.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: It was a very Catholic process. I have a very
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: Catholic mind.
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: Has had a lot of us.
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: It has, and I just I'm not going to go
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: into it, but I'm just gonna say that this movie
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: is incredibly upsetting and has been banned.
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: In a lot of places.
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: It started this whole thing in France where they're like
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: censorship or what what are we doing? But yeah, I
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: Stigmata I want to go into very briefly too.
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: I don't remember that was a big deal. People were upset.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: People were upset. So in that movie, which Eves and
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: I bonded over one time, it's a classic my news,
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. So in this movie, Patricia Arcat's character
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: is we assume getting possessed, I guess, but she's getting
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: like stigmata, which is you know, the marks on your
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: back and the blood where the nails have gone through,
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: just like Christ went through but at the end it
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: turns out it was the Catholic Church. That somebody at
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: the Catholic Church was doing this because they had discovered
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: that there was an an unreleased part of the Bible
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: that said, yeah, that said essentially like, you don't have
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: to come to the church to worship me. You don't
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: have to you can do it wherever. And so they
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: were so scared that people would stop coming to church
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: and would stop would stop giving them power, that they
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: were trying to destroy it. But it all comes out
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: at the end. And I loved that movie as a kid.
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: I thought it was really powerful. I was like, oh,
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: I don't have to go to church, mom. If you
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: see Stigmata, we.
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: Were really calling the religions because like bless the Child
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: was a Catholic, like the good to evil, to evil
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: to good to who did this?
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: It was definitely pro Catholic, by the way, But those
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: kind of.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: Movies, it really does make you feel like, yeah, this
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: this makes sense, This is the correct theory, right.
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: And to be honest, like looking back, I've watched stigmaa
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: within the past couple of years and I was like, oh,
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: it's not as good as I remember, But I did
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: it's probably like huge as a kid because she's like
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: levitating and she's using this voice. It's like, you don't
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: have to go like it's just a I remember it clearly.
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: It really stuck with me.
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: Did you go tell your mom that, yeah, this is
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: probably while all the capital that we know it is
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: not a good movie.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: No, they did not like it at all. They did
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: not like it at all.
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: I remember because I kind of portrayed her as being
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: like a christ figure, and a woman being portrayed as
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: Christ figure is a huge no.
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: No. This is during the time also Madonna try to.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: Make out with a christ figure, so all of the.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I forgot about that. Yeah. Well, also
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: something that a lot of very religious people don't find, okay,
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: the flip of when the witch or the non Christian
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: religious person is good. I think there are a lot
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: of examples of that, but they're not as mainstream. I
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: think like there's some I was thinking of where I
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: actually couldn't say for sure that they weren't Christian. I
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: just always assumed they weren't, and then I had to
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: kind of examine some things. But like I was going
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: to say, paranormal activity too, when she's the person who
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: was their housekeeper was kind of saging their house and
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: they fired her because they thought she was doing that
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: creepy witch stuff. But I actually don't know. Maybe that
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: is part of how she how she goes about cathosm.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know, so I can't say for sure, but
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: you know, examples like that. Another thing that we have
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: talked about a lot when it comes to religion is
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: shame and religious horror. There is a lot of that
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: going on. I think we're already going pretty long, so
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: we can't go into this too much. But like Carrie
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: is a big one which I still have not seen.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: I've seen the Carrie Carrie too.
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: Why have you not seen this?
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know, but I've seen Carrie
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: too this month. Okay, I'm actually still in my Halloween.
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: I didn't finish this month. Okay, Well, but that's a
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: big one of like she gets You'll have to correct
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: me I'm wrong because I've seen it. But she gets
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: her period right, And.
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: There's so much shame in this level of like if
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: you've got your period, that means that you are being
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: sexual active. There's so many like negativity to this and again,
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: I think this has everything to do with like the
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: mother's trauma possibly being raped, which is the indication that
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: could be wrong.
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: Also like her being.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: Not knowing what this is, so the shame, like she
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: thinks she's dying, So there's the embarrassing with a shame
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: that comes along with that.
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: In so much of this and just.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: Like good Old Boy but being ostracized because your mother
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: was so afraid of you learning too much.
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: And her mother was really religious, right.
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: Super religious, and she was all about abstinence. Oh conversation
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: about abstinence.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, Yeah, Going back to the Bitch, which we
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: do have a full episode on, that one was very
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: much the main character. Thompson was coming into puberty and
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: her sexuality, and both everybody and her family blamed her
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: for it, especially like the younger twins who were creepy.
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: Maybe not as much, they were just too weird.
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: They were the witch right though, because they were talking
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: to Black Coop.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: They were the ones talking to Black Philip.
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah the whole time, and knew Black Philip and the
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: Black Philip came to life.
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: For anyone who hasn't seen this movie, this might sound strange,
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: but yeah, but everybody else in her family, like her
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: little brother's kind of like checking her out. And then
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: her mom blames her for I guess distracting her dad
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: and maybe he's checking her out. No, she blames her
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: for the death that stealing the death of the baby,
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: but also stealing the like precious airly and that her
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: father had sold.
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: It kind of comes up with begins with the baby.
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: Yes, well, and that's an interesting movie because I was
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: reading in preparation for this kind of some different takes
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: on it, because some people were, like, like I said earlier,
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: in a lot of these religious horror movies, the witch
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: is evil. This is an interesting case because the witches
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: do kill that baby. But also at the end, you
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: understand why she chooses. I guess kind of she came.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: She's been yeah, like what she has to do to survive.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: So she's like, if I'm going to be accused of this, might.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: As well Yeah exactly before Yeah.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: That's what she says. But like it is interesting because also.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: They also killed the young kid, the boy, the younger brother, yes,
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: and in the two kids yeah.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so that's a that's a it's an interesting case.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: I hadn't really thought about it that much.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: This, Yeah, a conversation of like the desirability of young
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: women in this like they did the witches and black
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: Philip did everything to get to her yep.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: And the baby was they were rubbing it on their
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: skin as if you were going to get younger from they're.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: Going to have that younger.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: Also, maybe the jealousy is that the child was being
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: raised by the younger daughter instead of the mother and
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: would do a better job. But then like there's so
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: many ideals to who is who would were place the family,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: Like who becomes the main family member go to in
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: the matriarch, it would be the younger woman mm hmmm.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And that was very much that was happening during
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: the like Salem which trials period, and they were so
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: their father figure was so puritanical, they got kicked out
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: of a religious settlement. So she had internalized a lot,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff. This brings us to my
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: one of the final points. I just want to talk
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: about this. I'm so sorry, get up, okay, because we
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: were talking. It was Halloween when we were discussing this,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: and I just had this memory of getting tricked into
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: going into a religious haunted house. And they are sometimes
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: called judgment houses or hell houses hell houses, and I
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: wanted to know more about them because I feel like
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: this relates. This is like a religious horror pipeline. So
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: these were first popularized in the nineteen seventies. And I
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: want to read this abbreviated quote. It is abbreviated from
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: Sacred Matters magazine about what these things are about? If
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: you've never been to one? Okay quote. In practice, my
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: house was mostly episodic, distilling the complexity of teenage life
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: into a series of impressionistic caricatures. A naive group of
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: children dabbled in the occult by playing with a wigi board.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: An unwent couple got a little handsy, while boys to
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: men played in the background, A golf kid with a
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: chain wallet smoked weed, and most vividly, the two climactic
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: scenes representing characters the abortion girl and the suicide girl
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: both died, and the extreom they were in hell, where
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: death metal was blaring out of large speakers suspended from
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: the ceiling. The gendering of the wages of sin did
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: not occur to me until much later, but the primary
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: bodies being judged in judgment houses belonged to women in
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: the final room, my name was displayed on a TV
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: set along with the names of those in my group.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: I think it was supposed to be an obituary. At
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: any rate. The guy told us we had to make
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: a choice. The door on the left would take us
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: to Heaven, the one on the right to Hell and retrospect.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: Of course, I wish I had chosen Hell. I later
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: heard a rumor that those who picked Hell were given fruit, punch,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: and cookies. Opting for Heaven, my reward was to sit
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: at a table with one of the deacons of the church. Okay,
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: so I did go to one of these. Before I
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: get into it. This was a quote from John David
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: Pennaman in conversation with a Kelly J. Baker. Mine was
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: much more boring than what this sounds like. I I
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: went into a room and they just read as they did.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: They did do the like, don't do drugs, don't have sex, kids,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: re enactment things, but they mostly just read from the Bible,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: and it was super bor.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to remember if I've been to one, because
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 3: I feel like I have, like I have a picture.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: Of me going into one, but I have no recollection
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: because it would have been when I was a missionary,
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: so it didn't make sense that I would have gone
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: to one. I would have been a part of one,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: which is really horrifying itself. But I don't think so
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: maybe that's why I don't remember.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: Maybe I was a part of it, which makes me
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: really sad, and I'm so sorry to any of the
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: kids if I was there, but I really don't remember.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: But I feel like because there was definitely this push,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: So the nineties really felt like broad about this whole
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: relevant conversation, like even to the point that there is
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: still I think the beginning publishing of a Christian magazine
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: called Relevant Magazine, and it's supposed to replicate like Paste
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: magazine or Rolling Stones magazine, but for Christian okay, but
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 2: in this level like trying to connect with the youth.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: And this is also the big youth movements that we've
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: talked about since then, like so many things, yeah, that
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: have given me pause and a lot of second first
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: hand in second hand embarrassment, but all those things that
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: this was a big thing, like we were going to
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: do this. This also came about that the them and
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: I know you're gonna talk about a minute trunk or
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: treat like this was around the same time, but I
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: do remember like they did everything they could to try
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: and to scare you, and at this by this point,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: I believe it slowly started kind of fading away because
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: we realized, oh, this is not gonna work. We're gonna
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: have to do something that makes it fun.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Well they have tried a lot of things,
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: and some of them have been very very successful.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: Gelling people to thinking they were going to hell, and
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: that all you have to do is say a prayer. Yes,
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 3: that definitely works.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: Yes, and also just to I don't know, maybe he
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: gave you some solace, Samantha. A lot of people who
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: worked at these places have said they really really deeply
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: regret it, but they were young and didn't know it.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: Like the full of waste man, Yeah, so much. I cringe. Yeah,
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 3: I'm so sorry.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: Well, we have a quote from somebody in here who
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: worked at one who is now like I cannot, I'm
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: so sorry, and it says like it gives him trauma
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: to remember it. So here's a quote from our old employer,
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: house Stuff Works by Chris Opfer, about a Texas health
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: house that we're going to be talking about. This is
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: one of the biggest ones on the scene. Quote. Continue
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: walking through the maze of scenes, and you'll eventually get
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: a heavy dose of the destruction that the megachurch says
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: comes with being outed as gay, having pre marital sex.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: Are tipping the bottle back before the legal And then
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: here is a quote from a Vice article by the
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: same Josiah Hess mentioned previously about the same Texas hellhouse.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: There were angry Trump supporters shouting to our left and
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: enraged Black Lives Matters protesters on our right. A SNY
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: demon slithered from one side to the other, proudly exclaiming,
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: welcome to my world, where anyone different from you as
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: a threat, where evil grows and hatred runs deep. It's
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: one of my oldest and most successful tactics. Smiling through
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: ominous goth makeup, the demon whispered in the ears of
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: each protester, planting racist slurs and stirring up divisions. The
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: verbal combat was punctuated by the sound of an exploding
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: handgun fired by a Trump supporter into the chest of
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: a b LM activist, who collapsed to the ground dead.
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: This is traumatic, okay. According to the same article, the
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: Trinity Church hell house became one of the most notorious
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: when in nineteen it recreated the Columbine School shooting, a
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: mere six months after it happened, portraying the killers as
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: agents of Satan, aiming to slaughter all the Christian students.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: And yes, one of the old lines were called by
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: an actor quote, I have deceived this girl first, getting
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: her hooked on Harry Potter, magic, the gathering, and dungeons
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: and dragons.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: All right, and yeah, surprise purvise. Sex trafficking is big
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: in these things too. Here's another quote. All Jessica wanted
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: was a fun night with a nice guy. Now she'll
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: be having fun with a lot of guys for a
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: long time. That's how messed up these things are.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: So that they're going on with these new tactics. So
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: this sounds like the Westboro Church. Oh, teenagers for teenagers essentially.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: But so in the first scenario with the Black Lives Matter,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: the Black Lives Matter people were the ones that were
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: going to hell. I would have seen the due that
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: he shot him, I would assume, So not the one because.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, Yeah, not the murderer, No, because he loves
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: Trump so obviously Jesus right. Definitely, So he's Christian for sure, So.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: Apparently I thought it was like gonna be one of
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: those ones, like the relevant ones, that both of them
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: are evil.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 3: I'm like, odd, I don't like aid one of those.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: But what I farm when I read of it, it
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: sounds much more like it was like the demon was
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: whispering in the protesters' earsh and perhaps.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 3: And the murder wasn't the sin.
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: The murder was caused by these protesters. No, I mean,
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: this is so disturbing, like it's one of those things.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: When I was reading about it, the one I went
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: to is fairly tame.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like they well, this sounds like they
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: are the extremists. These are again the Westboro of churches
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: that you were like, you have the way you've become evil,
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: Like this, this is the evil you're talking about. I'm
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: said that it is still happening. I thought we had
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: let these go.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're still going. This church is still going. There's
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: a documentary about it, and it's it's huge. It's called
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: hell House, but not the horror movie Health.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 3: Which I love that.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: I love that movie too, But yeah, I mean, it's
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: that's so upsetting and disturbing, and as I said. In
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: these articles, people were saying this traumatized me, like, I
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: can't It's hard for me to even go to church
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: even if I was religious after I went through this, right,
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: especially any kind of marginalized people like queer people were
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: saying I cannot even and I, as mentioned, this reminded
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: me when I was reading about it. This reminded me
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: of CPCs. This is this is a they trick you inside.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: They show you these horrific things that aren't true. Like
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: a lot of people pointed out, so many of the
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: messaging they have behind them are not true at all,
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: very upsetting and offensive for young people perhaps, and they're
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: just I don't know. There's something about the idea that
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: I would go into a haunted house and not realize
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: that I was about to be like not have a fun,
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: scary time, but actually feel really traumatiy, right.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 3: Being told that your life is going to put you
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: to hell.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: Also, majority of the people you probably already seeing there
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: are the most judgmental people that you know exists. Because
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: the people who I say this is a person who
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 2: may have art one and probably both judgmental people.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean again, a lot of people who
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: a lot of the younger people who worked there had
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: no idea. But like the person who runs it has,
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, and if you want to get upset by quotes,
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: so he is a diamond dolphin, very very upsetting quotes,
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: but he thinks it. He thinks it works, and he
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: has a lot of quotes about how horror is it
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: good to get people to become more religious. But yeah,
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: those are still a thing. And I did after researching this,
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: I did think, you know, Hell House LLC. The horror
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: movie not about this at all, is about a cult
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: and demonic possession though, so I guess that cann there
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: you go play in the Mouth of Hell.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 3: That's Oftennoon.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's true.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 3: The Gates of Hell, that's true.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: But yeah, we did. Samantha and I also got to
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: talking about trunk art treating, which I didn't know was
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: a religious thing.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 3: That's how it began. I save those kids from trafficking
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 3: and razor blades.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: You would not believe how many comments I saw about
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: this on next door this year. Next Door has been
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: off the chain lately for me, since.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 3: I haven't seen many things.
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: I've been seeing a lot of discourse about snap benefits,
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: which is a horror in itself. But yeah, no, trunk
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: or treat is an interesting practice because they wanted they
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: understood that they couldn't take away the joy of costumes
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: and candy, so they had to figure out a way
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: to make it quote unquote safe and religious.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 3: Now, I will say, for the most part, the most
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 3: that I've seen are usually four young children, so if
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: they're older, they're like, sure, but like the panic of
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 3: like you know again, poisoning of things, trafficking of children apparently,
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 3: and bad things have happened. Don't get me wrong.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: It may just because of like timing or not necessarily
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: because of the rituals. But they were like, we're going
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: to make this safe. We need to make sure that
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: you know we are protected and that we know each
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: other type of conversation. And also it did give them
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: an excuse to decorate their cars.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: Interesting, but yes, it did begin as a church ideal
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: that kind of spread into like schools being like, well,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: maybe this is a good option, which I don't think
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: is bad because a lot of the neighborhoods you don't
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 2: know if people are actually giving out candy or not.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: And I know I saw one hoa saying that people
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: from outside of the community couldn't come into trigger treat.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 3: So like the excluded a lot of people, huh, because
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 3: they were known as a good neighborhood for candy you know.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I remember no skycountry.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so you have to like they so they were like,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: you know, well, let's give this opportunity to everyone into
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: doing this way.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: So yeah, Well it was interesting because I hadn't thought
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: about it. I've done a lot of different types of
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: trickercheating when I was a kid, and I hadn't really
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: considered the history of it. But I had done a
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: trunk or treat and I had done just you yep,
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: around the square kind of thing. But I through this
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: next door fiasco that happened, I learned that this is
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: still a conversation. People are really judgmental about it, as in,
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: you would you should take your kids to a church
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: or else? Oh really? Oh yeah. And also apparently now
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: there's like a you can sign up at least in
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: my neighborhood. You can sign up and stay in my house.
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: That will be offering candy or I'll be offering whatever.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: My old neighborhood did that they had an actual route
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: for the parents to know who would be available for
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: what and also allergies.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 3: Would you know that a bad thing?
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: No, it's not a bad thing at all. Lastly, just
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: to mention, the satanic panic does have a lot to
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 1: do with this. A lot of these movies like and
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: practices that we've discussed did come and I read that
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: we were kind of in a second wave of this happening.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: But you know this idea that having a movie like
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: The Exorcist, my mom was like, no, this will bring
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: in it will bring in the devil, so we cannot
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: have it in the house. And that was a clock.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: I felt so cool when I was watching The Extorsist,
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: like she didn't know a horrible, horrible kid, what a
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: horrible kid. But you know, these movies do they have
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: had and continue to have real consequences around the world.
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: Some of it will probably have to come back and
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: just do a more in depth episode on But just
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: just if people believe this is true, if you see
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: the like based on a true story, and witches in particular,
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: and women in particular, and people of color are marginalized,
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: people are in particular are painted as the ones that
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: are possessed are evil, our agents of the Devil. It
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: has had a real fallout, so we'll have to come
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: back to that. Uh but yes, in the meantime, listeners,
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: if you have any thoughts, any suggestions, anything we missed
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: that because this was there are so many things in this.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 2: Genre, everything like the TV shows that pop into my
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: head and like flavors of Korean because I was not
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: even talking about the fact that the Catholicism has that
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: kind of started to happen with in Korean culture to
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: the point that is pushing up, like the popularity of
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: Catholicism and how they save people.
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, we have a lot of extra work to do,
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: so listeners, please let us know what should we be
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: talking about, what should we look at next. You can
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: email us at Hello at stuff Wenever Told You dot com.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: You can find us on booskuy at Moms podcast, or
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: on Instagram and TikTok at stuff We Never told You.
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: We're also on YouTube. We have the merchandise at cotton
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: Buro and we have you can get wherever you get
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: your books. Thanks as always too our super produced Christina
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: Exector produce and a contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 1: to you for listening. Stuff and Never Told You dispection
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: by heart Radio. For more podcast from my heart Radio,
• 1:18:10
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• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.