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Self Publishing and Successful Marketing with Annie Abel · No Mess, No Magic

• Monica Hay: Hello and welcome to the No Mess No Magic podcast with Monica Hay. And today we have Annie, wait, which name are you going by on this? Because you have multiple names. Anne-Marie Alcott: ⁓ Let's stay with Annie Abell because that's my ⁓ adult fiction writing name. ⁓ Monica Hay: any able. Perfect. We Annie Abel as our guest today, which I'm stoked about because Annie is fucking hilarious. So Annie. And did you say unhot? Anne-Marie Alcott: hot. Well, people can't see it. It's a podcast. They need to know. Monica Hay: No, they literally can. This is gonna be on YouTube. Anne-Marie Alcott: ⁓ fantastic. ⁓ okay. Monica Hay: Okay, so let me first ask you, you have a lovely introduction on your book. Can you please read your About Me from your book? Because I love it. Anne-Marie Alcott: Sure. Let me go find my bio because Monica asked me for my bio and I never send it so I'm not going to read it for you. Annie is a German born author who now lives in the Netherlands where she cycled through the countryside like a main character in a moody indie film. If that character were also late to school pickups and covered in cat hair. She writes rom-coms full of grums, banter and emotional chaos because love should come with laughter and a mild. identity crisis. She lives with her British husband, also hot, two small tornadoes disguised as children, and two cats. When she's not writing or drawing, she watches drag and pretends her fictional characters didn't just emotionally damage her. Monica Hay: Love it. I love it. Okay. So Annie and I were like low key trying to figure out what to talk about because she didn't give me a lot of ideas to work with when she booked this. She was like, creativity, self-pub. Anne-Marie Alcott: Yes. I'm very good at talking, so there's a lot. We can use this as three hour Annie Abel special if you want. Monica Hay: Okay. Probably could. Well, we talked about, you know, talking about like the creative process, but also talking about your book and also talking about Frozen Con's The Self Pub. You also have your audio book coming out pretty soon. tell us a bit first about your book. I'm going to make you do an elevator pitch. Yeah, sorry. You're going to hate me. Anne-Marie Alcott: You got to make an elevator pit. ⁓ wait a second maybe i can find okay so this cover is not the actual cover i'll get my book sorry Monica Hay: This is so funny to me. Anne-Marie Alcott: This is the actual cover of the book. For the people who haven't watched it for while, it is called Two Truths and a Lie, Two Writers, One Book Deal, Zero Chance of Love. It's a very witty, who would have thought, ⁓ a little spicy rom-com ⁓ about two rival writers who enter a competition to win a book deal. And our main character, Nora, she's a grumpy, bisexual, sci-fi, fantasy bookstore owner. Monica Hay: The two truths and a lie. Yes. Anne-Marie Alcott: And she is ⁓ working against New York Times best-selling author John Cater, who's also really hot and also grumpy and a cat dad. I mean, I don't know if that's, that's a lot of selling points right here. And it's very funny. There's rainbow wrap and drag queens and houseboats and snowed in cabins and hot tubs. don't know what else you need. ⁓ Monica Hay: Yes, yes. Yes, yes, now I love it. So first of all, did you just write this in German? Like you just translated it? Anne-Marie Alcott: ⁓ god. ⁓ Yes. So I thought it would take a month. It took me three months. It's one slide. This. Am I allowed to swear on this podcast? This fucking book which I love but my god. Too German. I am German. I've mentioned that in my wonderful bio. Girl. Monica Hay: Yes, I fuck into her all the time. Anne-Marie Alcott: I am now reminded why I do not like to write in German. First of all, every bloody sentence is way too long. They're way too many words, way too many rules. My God, so many rules. And I just, I'm sorry to my fellow countrymen, but it is not a sexy language. You write a sexy in German and you come back to me. This is not, it's not, it's not cute. But to be fair, I did a very good job. Monica Hay: it. Your mom is reading it now, right? Because she's, your mom speaks German and now your mom is reading it. Anne-Marie Alcott: So. So my mom is German and I just gave it to my mom to like, I'm like, can you look through this? Because I haven't lived in Germany for like 16 years and I needed to know if some of the phrases seem off and if she would say certain things a certain way. And she loved it. I was very apprehensive to send her the sex scenes. There are a few, but she was really into it. She was like, ⁓ my God. And she just read like Emily Henry. because I sent her book lovers, which is my favorite rom-com and she's like, ⁓ my God, you're like, you're, she thinks that I write like her, like my emotional and like spicy scenes are very similar to Emily Henry, a little bit more explicit. She loved, she was crying, she was crying. She called me when she was done, she was crying. And now, now, because I'm broke and I need someone to like copy edit, I sent her to, Monica Hay: Mmm. I would agree, yeah. and Emily Henry have a similar vibe. Anne-Marie Alcott: my father and I need all your thoughts and prayers on this one because I'm a child of divorce and that's going to be a very interesting experience for my very white, very slightly right-wing father to read this very rainbow, colourful, spicy rom-com but you know. Monica Hay: ⁓ So is he good with grammar? Is that why you sent it to him? Anne-Marie Alcott: Yes, yes. Okay, yeah, it sounds like weird. Why would he send it to him? So the thing is like, I originally wanted to send it to his sister I have a good contact with. And she was like, yes, I sent it over and then she was busy. It's like, yeah, anyway, so I guess he's having a good time. I don't know. He hasn't said very much, but that there are many errors in it, which I guess is a good thing. So. Monica Hay: Yeah, fair. Cool, okay, so he's, I love this, so. Anne-Marie Alcott: This is kind of like my... I'm turning 38 next month but this is kind of like my... ⁓ by the way I'm not straight dad. ⁓ This is my coming out to my estranged father. Here's my book. No one is straight. ⁓ Have fun. Monica Hay: You're like, here's my book. You'll find out. Can you hear my cat meowing? Fuck, okay, hang on. Bella! Anne-Marie Alcott: Mm-hmm. Monica Hay: I'll just let her hang out with us while we do the interview. I feel like the listeners won't be too mad. Here's Bella. Okay, Anne-Marie Alcott: But yeah, so just went to German. ⁓ I made a cute little cover for it and it's gonna come out, I guess, sometime this summer. Really busy, so I haven't really set a time yet, but yeah, early summer. Let's do it. Monica Hay: Okay. Okay, and then the audiobook. So this is my first question for you. I think a lot of self-published authors aren't sure how to proceed with audiobooks, so can you tell me what that process has looked like for you, when it's coming out? Anne-Marie Alcott: So I have contacted a few audiobook companies and just to get like a general tap in. It was always a dream of me to do an audiobook. I grew up as a kid with lot of absent parents. My absent parents. Audiobooks entertaining me instead of reading me to sleep. It's kind of sad, but you know, it doesn't matter. Monica Hay: A lot of what? Okay. Anne-Marie Alcott: Anyway, so I have a big, love for audiobooks. I listen to them all day long. I fall asleep to them. They are like, I love them. And so it was a big dream of mine to get this done into an audiobook. And it is really fucking expensive. I'm not gonna sugar coat this. So I was talking to a couple of companies and they were like, yeah, and then we do a casting and this is about what this would cost. And the lower end was around 6K and I'm like, I can... Monica Hay: same. Mm, okay. Anne-Marie Alcott: I'm like, oh, thank you for the information. And I'm like, I'm not going to be able to ever do this. And then I wrote on, what was it? I think I just did some sort of threads thing. Like, hey, I just published my book. I just need a hug. I don't know. Community there is very supportive, right? And Monica Hay: Mmm. Anne-Marie Alcott: One of them was like, I'm not an author, I'm a narrator, but I'm sending you a hug. And I'm like, ⁓ I always wanted to get an audio book done, but it's so pricey. And she's like, let's chat. And I'm like, okay. And so it's Rebecca and I, had a video chat. And so what she does is she does payment plans and a budget that is usually, usually, usually, pretty doable for ⁓ indie authors. ⁓ Monica Hay: Hmm. Anne-Marie Alcott: So she does human plans, the book can be done in like even if you can pay 50 euros a month, you can pay 50 euros a month. That is complete. And so we had a chat with her. She's a great narrator. ⁓ We've done it for a lot cheaper than my first couple offers. and I wasn't sure I wanted to do this because I'm someone who likes to listen to one narrator in a romance book, like books in general. Monica Hay: Right. Anne-Marie Alcott: We're doing two narrators. that wasn't the plan, right? But she goes like, hold on, I have this friend Jack Fields, and he's great. I'm just gonna let him ⁓ record a couple of lines from your ⁓ love interest. And I'm like, right. And so she sent in 15 minutes of her talking reading and then ⁓ all the voices and then the duet. And I tell you, And I think I've, I've, I've sent it to you as well. ⁓ I showed it to you. I tell you, I was sitting. Okay. You just walk away. That's fine. I was sitting in a room full of girls and I, the minute I pressed play and Jack started to talk, everyone was melting off their effing seeds. They're like, ⁓ there's one. Monica Hay: Yes. Sorry. Cat issue. Keep talking. Cats. I'm listening but my cats are chewing my things. Anne-Marie Alcott: Like literally. He has a really sultry voice, very sexy. He takes great direction. So if you think of like a sexy romance voice, that's Jack. And I'm like, okay, fine. I guess it's business, right? And I invested a little bit more to have two narrators ⁓ so that I have, I'm really excited to get to sn- So it's done. The audio book is done. It's getting edited at the moment and then it's gonna come to me next week. I'm so excited to have like snippets. can pop one tick off. Ooh, the naughty talk. I don't know if I can ever look in their faces again after. Monica Hay: It's their job, they're used to this. Anne-Marie Alcott: I know, know, I know, but it's just, it's really freaking exciting. The only part with audiobooks is I am a little bit lost in how to market it. I've been indie publishing for a while now. I know how to get ARC readers and I do beta readers. I know how to do book tours, but I do not know how it works with audiobooks. like anytime I go on social media and say, have an audiobook coming out. Does anyone want to have a copy to review? Monica Hay: Mmm. Anne-Marie Alcott: I don't know how you even start asking for ARCs without having the book at hand yet. I think it might get easier once it's- Monica Hay: Mmm. Yeah. Yeah, if anybody who's watching has ideas, tell us in the comments. Anne-Marie Alcott: Yeah, or if you want to have a you know, yeah, I mean, Monica Hay: or email, or not email, slide into Annie's DMs on Instagram. Anne-Marie Alcott: It would be nice to have a level of a hype team. So therefore, because I haven't built up a hype team yet, I haven't set a publication date. Monica Hay: Yeah. Got it. Well, this is really interesting because a lot of people would assume that you just publish an audiobook and you just say, here's an audiobook, but it sounds like you really want to make sure that you do it similar to how the actual physical book came out. Anne-Marie Alcott: I mean, sure, you can totally do that, right? You can publish a book. doesn't matter if it's an audio format, ebook format or paperback format. And you publish it and say, hey, my book is here, go buy it. And then it's so much noise, ⁓ especially in the rom-com genre, it will completely sink. And I invested a lot of money into this audio book. And so I really wanted to find their listeners. ⁓ Monica Hay: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anne-Marie Alcott: So, ⁓ yeah. Monica Hay: Where can you get, which platforms are you planning on having the audio book streaming? Anne-Marie Alcott: ⁓ so I'm, I will definitely, definitely have it on Audible. I am thinking of doing a three months Audible exclusive thing because then they put me in like, they can put me in their free, ⁓ catalog and then I get like paid still the same kind of royalty, but listeners can have it for free in a library, which is really great. and then do it wide. So you have it on Spotify or have it on Apple everywhere else. Monica Hay: Yeah. Nice. Yeah, I listen to lot of audio on, on Libby and I also do it on Spotify as well. ⁓ I love this. So let me ask you, so you do, you do self publishing and you've done your children's books with a lot of success and now you have this book. So I feel like you're going to very honest about the self publishing journey. Cause I know you that's, that's your vibe. So when. When you think about self-publishing, the nice thing is that you have creative freedom for all of the work you're doing. So what does that creative freedom ⁓ look like in practice ⁓ it comes to your ⁓ Anne-Marie Alcott: I mean... It depends a little bit on what scope you want to do this. If you want to write and publish for yourself, there is no limit to your freedom, right? You do whatever you want. As someone who's trying to build a platform and make a living out of this, I can create and write books I want, but I also have to consider my readership a little bit. So Monica Hay: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Anne-Marie Alcott: I thought this is a good time to announce that I'm working on book two. Monica Hay: ⁓ my god, wait, are we the first people to know this in the pod? Anne-Marie Alcott: Yeah. I wasn't planning. I wasn't planning. I had a plot for book two, because I used to be agented and we tried to sell as a three book deal. And I wasn't planning to really write it because I was like, I, I don't know, there's so many things I want to write, right? So many books I have plotted. So many plans I have. But the readers who have read the book, Monica Hay: very special right now. Anne-Marie Alcott: everyone is asking for the story for Otis, who is the best friend. Without a a affair, he's everyone's favorite character. And I was thinking back and forth for a long time because it is a male male romance. Can I write ⁓ this? Is this my place? ⁓ Should I profit off a marginalized group? Monica Hay: Yes, I love it. Mm-hmm. Anne-Marie Alcott: Seeing he did rivalry, being loved so much and having so much support, I would feel really sad if I couldn't tell Otis's story because I'm And I feel like he deserves this happy ending. And I will get sensitivity to readers and I will make sure that I'm doing this the right way. yeah, so. Monica Hay: Yeah. Yes. Anne-Marie Alcott: there is going to be a book to all I'm going to start it next month. So I've have the plot down, going to start it officially writing it next month when we are going on a writing retreat. So yeah, so that is where the creativity or the freedom of creativity comes in. Do you do have to consider your readership a little bit? Monica Hay: Yes. Well, it sounds like the readership wants the story. Yes. Yeah. And I really like that you're talking about the conversation around who tells the story. I also think you're not a straight person. You are part of the LGBTQ community. And so I think you have the perspective that somebody who isn't in that community wouldn't have. ⁓ And you're also very plugged into this community. You should. Anne-Marie Alcott: Yes. Monica Hay: I don't know how many times you told me that you've gone to these different, what is it? You go to a lot of drag shows. I think most of your friends are in that space. ⁓ Anne-Marie Alcott: What the? I'm lost, guys. I driving, can you tell? Monica Hay: ⁓ And yeah, so I think with getting sensitivity readings and stuff, as long yeah. Anne-Marie Alcott: I mean, how many straight love stories are out there? know, why? Let me, let me. Yeah, in the end, when I plotted this book, I wasn't even thinking about that it's a male my environment. I was just trying to figure out how Otis can find his happy ever after. So anyway, so this is happening. really excited to dive back into the world. Monica Hay: Yeah! Yeah. Yeah, he deserves it. Yeah, so I am very curious, what opportunities does self-publishing open up that traditional publishing doesn't really have? Anne-Marie Alcott: I feel that a support in the indie publishing community is very, very large. Like everyone has each other's back or like people want to have, there's a big hype group, I feel. We all know how hard it is to get books to be seen and I think more more indie publishing becomes more valued and it's breaking a lot of boundaries. Monica Hay: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Anne-Marie Alcott: Traditional publishing has so many rules and they always think they know best what the readership wants. And it's interesting because considering, for example, how many fan fictions are going to be published as traditional books this year, you can see that indie publishers or, you know, fan fiction writers have a feeling for what people want to So, what was your question? Monica Hay: They do. Yeah. Yeah. Anne-Marie Alcott: Okay. Monica Hay: Well, you answered it. I think the funny thing about self-publishing is that authors are willing to take risks that publishers aren't really willing to take. And they're like, yeah, I'll write this book and take a risk on it. And then it's really cool to see that the risk-taking actually exists. Where I think traditional publishing is very nervous about taking those risks for a lot of good reasons and a lot of annoying reasons. Anne-Marie Alcott: Yeah. I think any publishing for me, it's always like, what do I want to read about? I just got to it. And with publishing, you always have to think of your market first. Would this have a place in the market right now? Am I even going to bother writing it? Because that is unfortunately the reality of a traditional published author. You can't spend your time writing books just for yourself. Isn't that, it's not working anymore. You are. Monica Hay: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Anne-Marie Alcott: This is a business. You have an agent who's expecting books from you. You have an editor who's expecting books from you. ⁓ So the creative freedom is getting smaller. when I was agented, I felt the pressure of like, every sentence I wrote was like, will this be good enough? Am I wasting my time? Should I be actually working on a different project? And now I'm like, I can do everything. I don't care. So why is it? doesn't it doesn't but it's it's my decision and of course there are big big drawbacks or not big drawbacks but there are some drawbacks to indie publishing. I have to wear every single hat a publishing house has. I'm Monica Hay: Yeah. but you do it very well. Anne-Marie Alcott: Thank you. I dunno. I'm- Monica Hay: say this because Annie, sorry I'm like hitting my desk, Annie is very good at the marketing and you're good at getting yourself out there, you're good at like attending events and things like that and you're not afraid to do the things that think a lot of more introverted writers find difficult. Like I'll watch you at a festival and you're just like shining at the festival and you do really well in those spaces and... Anne-Marie Alcott: What are you doing? I'm home and I'm completely burned out for four days. Monica Hay: You need, yeah, you like to have your like chill time afterward. you know, I think I really like to ask you, because you do a very good job with your marketing. And I'm curious how you approach your marketing with your indie books. Anne-Marie Alcott: Yeah. That's funny that you say that. I don't think I do. I don't think I... I think personally I'm not consistent enough with my marketing. I should probably focus on one platform. I should probably make, you know, lots of mock-ups and have a marketing plan and I do not have any sort of plan. But that's a theme that's happening here. I don't have any plan of what I'm doing ever. I'm just going along. What I do is I jump on lot of opportunities like this, right? You're like, I'm doing a podcast. Do you want to be a guest? I'm like, yeah, sure. So I'll do two more podcasts and interviews this month. I send my books out to people who, like I'm active on social media, but I don't market, I network. Monica Hay: Yeah. Love it. You network. I think that's a really, really good way to put it. Anne-Marie Alcott: in how I approach publishing because I see it as a team effort versus here by my book, by my book, by my book. And I think if I have a good strong network, different opportunities are opening up for me. For example, I didn't think that last year, or last year, I didn't think that would be possible, but this year I am planning a rather large event in Amsterdam. rented out a massive church. Monica Hay: Yeah, it is. Anne-Marie Alcott: And I'm doing my own book fair because I was like I've been terrible and I was like I can do this better. Sorry. Monica Hay: I don't think you should apologize. That's the whole story we all get into. Anne-Marie Alcott: Well, guess, looks fun, let me do it. I'm doing it. Monica Hay: Yeah, well, I think, I'm gonna interrupt you because I can't help it. So I think another thing that I really like about your marketing when the book came out is that you had, how many people had you sent an arc to out of curiosity? Anne-Marie Alcott: 350. Monica Hay: Yeah. And so when your book came out, you had so many people reviewing it on Goodreads, Amazon. Like you had like so many different people posting about it. So you had hype. You had a lot of hype and it was because you weren't afraid to give out your book for free to these people to bring up the hype and get discover, like get discovery out there. Yeah. And I think that's something a lot of indie authors, you know, Anne-Marie Alcott: Yeah. I mean, that's what I did with my kids books too. I'm also a children's book author and a different name. And I give away my book for free all the time. I go to school readings, I give out books for free. I send them to doctors offices because they are specialized neurodiversion children. And no one knows your book exists. If you don't give it out. And this is how is it different if I give you this book and I pay Monica Hay: Yep. Yep. Anne-Marie Alcott: four euros for the printing cost, then me doing an Amazon ad. And same amount of money. And then I know you get the book versus someone just clicking past it. Monica Hay: Right. clicking past it, but you also know that the people, the right people are getting it. You get to control who sees it and who actually gets it. I love that. I love that so much. And it hasn't been bad. it's your children's books do really well. Anne-Marie Alcott: and Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I did. Monica Hay: OK, I curious. What ⁓ are. How do I how do I this? Anne-Marie Alcott: Mm-hmm. Monica Hay: This is going to be a question I think you're going to like. ⁓ What helps you? This is a bit of like a tangent to a different topic. What helps you stay true to your own creative vision? Because you had this whole story, which you don't have to get into a ton of specifics about it on here, but you had a story of, you you had the situation where somebody wanted you to write things that weren't necessarily what you were. Anne-Marie Alcott: Okay. Mm-hmm. Monica Hay: wanting like back to when you were agent and things like that. So like how have you what has that process been like for you learning how to stay true to what you want? Anne-Marie Alcott: I mean, it took me a while to stand up for myself and put a foot down and realize why I'm in this. I am not in this to churn out a bunch of mediocre books. Sorry. The market is very saturated. And make a quick buck and people forget about the sorry day, you know, reading it. I'm not someone who wants to mass produce low value books. Monica Hay: Mmm. Anne-Marie Alcott: So, and I fear that with our attention span being so short, with the market being so over saturated, that is kind of unfortunately what a lot of agents and traditional publishers are looking at. We're looking at quick sales, big hooks, rating can be terrible. We don't really care. And I'm like, that is not, that is not what I want to be part of. Like I want to write books that mean something to me. I wrote two truths and a lie. Because I wanted to read this book. It's a fun ride and I just wanted to make to have, I want someone to have a good time when they're reading it. And what I do is I put a part of myself into each of my projects. I'm trying to think what, what is it that connects me to the story? This right to myself. And it's not necessarily something I will ever like tell everyone's like, does this, you know, does Monica Hay: Mm. Anne-Marie Alcott: this part of me is in this book, but it's more of a deep dive into who I am. Maybe things that are, it's like therapy, right? Something like therapy is like, there's a part of myself that I want to explore and I'm gonna go and this is the project I'm gonna deep dive into this. ⁓ Really helps. Monica Hay: Mmm. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. ⁓ I'm curious when you say that you feel like the industry wants people to turn out books, did you feel pressure to get books written very, very quickly when you were in the industry? Anne-Marie Alcott: I mean, it's the problem is that the market changes so freaking fast. Someone comes to you and says, Hey, can you write me a sports romance that happened? And I'm like, I don't even watch sports. Let's be honest. I mean, the only sports I watch is heated rivalry. That's as far as I would go. I'm like, sorry. I know. Monica Hay: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anne-Marie Alcott: I'm not going to waste time. There's only so much time I have. There's so many books I really want to write. I'm not going to write something for someone else, for them to make money. I want to write that I really want to write because this is my, this is my craft. Right? I'm to, I'm going to choose a plot. I want to choose a book and characters I want to spend a year with or more. Monica Hay: Right. It's your own career. It's your own career. Mmm. Anne-Marie Alcott: then it needs to be people that I am choosing. It needs to be a world that I'm going to create. So that doesn't make sense. Monica Hay: Yeah, it makes sense. I think it's interesting because obviously the publishing world is like, how do we keep the doors on and lights on, right? Or doors on words. You know what mean? How do we keep the lights on? So they do the things that are gonna make money. ⁓ In some ways they have to. But I also think that what you're getting at is that you really need to have a very deep connection with what you're writing. And I think, I'm wondering if that's... Anne-Marie Alcott: Okay. Yeah, I mean a lot of Monica Hay: a neuro-spicy thing because Anne-Marie Alcott: I don't think that you can write well unless it hurts. I mean, I feel, I think that's true. I think for me, the good stuff I've written is because I basically bled onto the page. You know, being really honest and you're writing things that are uncomfortable to talk about or, um, I don't know, scenarios you whispered to yourself at night or I don't know, you know, these deep, silly thoughts you have and you put them on a page and then Monica Hay: Cool. fair. Anne-Marie Alcott: And then you package it and someone else connects with the things you thought you're going to say out loud. That's, that's magical, right? That's why I do this. Monica Hay: Yeah. It is magic. Yeah, I love that. ⁓ Now I'm like becoming a squish ball and you're like, whatever, you're probably. Anne-Marie Alcott: I'm like, okay. Monica Hay: I am the Squished Ball, Annie is the teaser. That's her love language. Anne-Marie Alcott: I am not, I'm very sensitive. up then. Monica Hay: So, okay, I am curious, ⁓ what is a piece of advice in self-publishing or in that world that you think is bullshit? Anne-Marie Alcott: Mm-hmm. my god, I think most writing advice is bullshit. Sorry, feel... Listen, as someone who has a shelf full of craft books, whatever advice someone's putting out there is because it worked for them. It doesn't mean it's gonna work for you. Go find your own way. Find the way, find your inspiration the way you want to find your inspiration. You don't have to tell anyone. ⁓ You know, writing is a private, secretive kind of process. Monica Hay: Do you like to keep your writing private and secretive? Is that what works for you? Anne-Marie Alcott: I think the process of where I come, where my ideas come from, what parts are for myself, where I find my inspiration, I don't necessarily gonna... ⁓ my god, your cat. ⁓ I don't think that's anyone's business, know? Barely. Monica Hay: Hmm, interesting. That's so interesting to me, because I love when people talk about that stuff. But for you, you're like, don't, like, that's not my job is to tell you what that is for me. Yeah, that's fair. Anne-Marie Alcott: No. How I write, I mean, I can tell you, but it's not going to mean that it's going to be the same for you. Everyone, think being creative and wanting to have a career in this business, you're going to be a little bit unhinged. You're going to have to be a little bit crazy. So go down and be your feral self in your private place and find a way. Monica Hay: Right. be your feral foe. Anne-Marie Alcott: Find your way of how you can be the most creative and true to yourself. You don't have to shift on your process. Monica Hay: I love this. It's funny because I feel like I'm the opposite. I share a lot of my process. Anne-Marie Alcott: That's fine, and if you want to do that, that's cool. But like, I feel like it can inhibit people. You know, I'm not saying do drugs, but some people do. Sorry. Monica Hay: This is Sky, by the way. Anne-Marie Alcott: Here's an advice that I do that I can share. I write my best sex scenes when I'm on my ovulation. Monica Hay: Oh, okay, that's really good advice actually. Anne-Marie Alcott: I wait until I'm over lighting to write the sex scenes. Monica Hay: That's fantastic advice. This is a vibe. This is a vibe. Anne-Marie Alcott: There you go. When you're really angry, write those angry scenes. It works. Yeah. Monica Hay: Yeah, yeah it does. I'm ⁓ trying think of anything else I want to ask you. I think, huh? Anne-Marie Alcott: I'm not single. I said, I'm not single. I'm sorry. I don't know. It's probably a question as we'll count a lot. Monica Hay: Sorry, I'm off the market. You guys crack me up. Anne-Marie Alcott: You Monica Hay: Okay, I am curious, we were talking about how you wanted to spend a year with your characters. So what is the process for you when you, I'm sure it's different for children's books versus your adult fiction, like how long it takes to write it and then publish it. ⁓ How long does it usually take for you with your children's books to have a draft and then publish it get out in the world versus your adult books? Anne-Marie Alcott: Yeah. ⁓ Okay, so with my children's books, I think part of it because I also do the illustrations and it take me way longer than the writing. But even though it is a bit of a symbiosis, like you go back and forth in the text and the illustrations, but to come up with a concept and a base of children's books can take me as little as two weeks, right? Because we're talking about children's books for like, four to seven years old, so there's not like 300, 600 words. It's not a lot, right? Monica Hay: Okay. Mm-hmm. Anne-Marie Alcott: and then the concept of like laying it out and then illustrating, would say any of them, three to six months, how long it would take me to do a kid's book. And so Adelberg is a whole different ballpark because we are not, we're working in layers, right? We're building the skeleton. We're putting on the meat. We shaved down what we don't want. Monica Hay: Got it. Mm-hmm. Anne-Marie Alcott: It's just such a different layout process of writing a novel versus writing a children's books for me. Monica Hay: Yeah, so it took you what, maybe a year or two to get the novel. I mean, know it took you a couple of years to write it and then rewrite it. Anne-Marie Alcott: A first draft, if I'm really dedicated, can be like three months, two or three months. But then I put it away. I try not to look at it. ⁓ Then I do a second draft and then probably put it away. And then I do a third draft, probably put it away. And then I'm to give it to beta readers, take the underfeed back, do another revision. So that whole process. Monica Hay: Mm-hmm. Anne-Marie Alcott: While the first draft might only take three months, the whole process of getting a book written for me is typically a year or 18 months. Monica Hay: Okay, and I have to ask you this because I know that this is your life. How do you, you have two kids and you have a family and like a very busy life. How do you manage all the million things that you're doing while also writing? Anne-Marie Alcott: Mm. Mm-hmm. I cry a lot. I I mean, I do. ⁓ Okay, I have a work week schedule on my desk, which I try to stick to. And it starts with, which makes me laugh because I never done the first part, I printed it out and then, nine to nine thirty, yoga. Monica Hay: Uh-huh. You've never done that. Anne-Marie Alcott: Never happened. Then come edits for an hour and a half, lunch break, which I never do. If I'm hyper focused, I don't eat. More edits until 12.30. A snack or call it a fifth cup of coffee. Social media and then my phone off. So that is supposed to be until like two o'clock. I'm supposed to work and then I turn my phone off. Monica Hay: Okay. Anne-Marie Alcott: doesn't really happen that way. Usually I'm like, we're going to like five. ⁓ Wednesdays I dedicate for children's books completely. And Fridays I work on edits in the library with a writer group. So I have a little bit of a structured week. However, for example, today my kid is at home. I can't do as much as I want to do. ⁓ Appointments are happening tomorrow. have an appointment at school. I have a thing in Amsterdam. Monica Hay: Mmm. Yeah. Anne-Marie Alcott: So I have to be a little bit of flexible, a little bit flexible, but I also really interestingly just realized the other day that when people say give your fullest or give your, you know, do your best, it doesn't mean give 200%. Which is weird because it doesn't matter what I do, I always try to give 200 % until I'm completely burnt out. But most people work on like 70, 80 % of their full capability. Monica Hay: Mmm. Yeah. Anne-Marie Alcott: And then they're like, I'm good. I need to take care of my mental health. And I probably do not take good enough care of my mental health. Yeah. Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, I write novels, Friday is my writing group, Wednesday is for kids books. Kind of so. Monica Hay: I love that the ending of that sentence. Yeah, yeah. And when it comes to deciding your schedule for your launches, how have you had to adjust launches and things like that because of like family or like different things that come up? Anne-Marie Alcott: ⁓ yeah. ⁓ no, I probably didn't. skip food or sleep. I mean, I sometimes if it's if I'm in a launch phase, and if I have a deadline, I work until midnight. I mean, I paid enough for the hours I put in the week, because there's so many things you do raise this edit as promotions, there is interviews, there is illustration work, there is networking, and tomorrow you got to go to there's this thing I plan in Amsterdam, which Monica Hay: Mmm. Yeah. Anne-Marie Alcott: why a lot of my time. I don't get paid for any of this. However, however, I'm really good at doing a lot of small things at the same time. I'm someone who wants to have 17 different dishes cooking, because then I do not get bored. Focus on one big project, then I will not finish one thing. Monica Hay: Yeah. Mmm. Mmm. Yeah, yeah, you like having a lot of different things going on. Anne-Marie Alcott: I need novelty. think that's part of the neurodiverse brain, right? We need new exciting things. so dabbling with event organization, illustration, all these different things at the same time actually really works for my brain. Monica Hay: Yeah. I love that because I think a lot of, I mean, you and I are both, are you, is it okay if I say you have ADHD on the pod? Okay. Anne-Marie Alcott: Yeah. I I'm just what everyone who has listened so far can tell. Monica Hay: So I think it's really nice to hear, because so much of the advice about being productive is about focusing on one thing. And while that works for some people, for a lot of neurodiverse brains, that's not really how we function. I want to have multiple things going on as well. And I would get really bored if I didn't. I would just be like, ⁓ what? Anne-Marie Alcott: Yeah, we crave novelty, we need I need to listen to an audio book to be able to illustrate it's just my brain one if one part of my brain gets bored, this one, it won't shut up. And so I focus on this part. So I need to, you know, switch a roo. Yeah. Monica Hay: Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep, I love that. I love that. So. think my last question is where do people find you? How do people learn about you, Annie? Anne-Marie Alcott: ⁓ so you can find me. I'm most active on Instagram Annie with a Penny. ⁓ used to be Anne with a Pen because it rhymed. ⁓ Anne with an E. But I had to change my pen name. ⁓ now we're Annie with a Penny, ⁓ makes no sense and a rarest thing. Anyway, ⁓ can find me there. You find my children's books under Tiny Horse Books if you want. ⁓ Monica Hay: Yeah. Fair. Anne-Marie Alcott: also on Instagram or my website, Annie Abel Books. You can find me on TikTok though. I don't know what I'm doing over there to be honest. It's not. If you're interested in the event I'm planning is called Let's Get Bookish. The event is on Instagram as well. We're going to be 75 plus authors who are meeting their readers in September in Amsterdam. Monica Hay: You Mm-hmm. Anne-Marie Alcott: really fun. Yes, you can send me a message in a bottle. Monica Hay: love it I love it okay well thank you Annie I'm sure we'll have you back let's talk about other shit because this is how it is Anne-Marie Alcott: Thank Well, I love talking. I don't know if you can tell. Monica Hay: Okay, thank you so much. what's your, maybe this will be my last question. What would you like your readers or the listeners right now, not readers, sorry, my brain. What would you like your listeners to walk away with? What's like one thing that you wanna leave them with before we wrap up? Anne-Marie Alcott: one. You ⁓ I want to leave them with the very big urge to buy my book. They're like, ⁓ my god, she seems so fun. I want to be her friend. And yes, I will be your friend if you find me. ⁓ And I want to read her book because it's pink and then people are hot. Monica Hay: Love it. It's pink and people are hot. Fucking vibe. This is a fucking vibe. I'm obsessed. All right. We did it. Love it. Thanks guys for listening.