Latest / Simply Bitcoin / Jack Dorsey: $1M Bitcoin by 2030 | EP 993

Transcript

Jack Dorsey: $1M Bitcoin by 2030 | EP 993 · Simply Bitcoin

0:02
It's all going to zero against Bitcoin.
0:06
It's. Going on forever you're.
0:15
Against Bitcoin? You're against freedom yo.
0:23
Welcome to Simply Bitcoin Live, the most watched daily Bitcoin
0:26
live show on YouTube. Rumble NX.
0:28
We are your source for the separation of money and state.
0:31
Sit back, relax. Enjoy the ride guys.
0:33
A little bit of a technical mishap.
0:35
We, as you guys know, we live streamed the entire Canadian
0:39
Bitcoin conference for you guys this week.
0:41
It seems like my Rd. caster did not survive the travel, so we're
0:45
getting it fixed. We should have the audio back up
0:47
to par by like Wednesday of this week, so bear with us in the in
0:51
the meantime. But guys, today's show's gonna
0:54
be absolutely loaded with news. Jack Dorsey, the ex CEO of
0:58
Twitter and of course he's like moved on to better, greater and
1:02
better things. He's focusing completely on
1:04
Bitcoin nowadays. He did that recent investment
1:06
into the ocean mining pool initiative.
1:10
I I got to actually attend the event in I think it was South
1:14
Carolina I was absolutely crazy So yeah he is predicting like
1:17
Kathy Wood that bitcoins that bitcoins price will go beyond $1
1:22
million by 2030. So a notable, another notable
1:25
person saying you know basically what a lot of us are thinking,
1:29
what a lot of us are anticipating.
1:30
After all it is Infinity, 21 million, Infinity divided by 21
1:35
million. So interesting news.
1:36
Also news coming out of Venezuela.
1:38
It seems like the Venezuelan government is trying to crack
1:41
down on Bitcoin mining. Obviously they didn't get the
1:43
memo that didn't really work out very well in China.
1:47
But you know, it's I guess can't can't blame them for not trying
1:51
I guess. And of course I think the big
1:53
news of today is Craig Wright. We could finally say this.
1:56
It's not coming out of simply Bitcoin.
1:58
It's coming out of a of a judge in the UK.
2:02
It's undeniable at this point he said that Craig Wright is a
2:06
liar. He lied and you know he IA lot
2:09
of people are anticipating potential criminal charges
2:12
because a lot of the things that Craig Wright did apparently, you
2:16
know, you could say it was fraud.
2:18
And again that's not me saying this, it's it's Auk court that
2:23
is making this type of statement.
2:25
And now of course I think this is the end of a very long saga
2:29
that a lot of bitcoiners were, you know were part of it
2:32
affected them. Shout out to specifically the
2:35
space cat, hot or not and Peter McCormack for really taking the
2:39
brunt of this spending a a a lot of money on legal fees just to,
2:46
you know, stand up for the truth, right?
2:48
This is someone who was very well funded, someone that tried
2:52
to use the legal legal system in order to silence his opponents.
2:57
Silence thought, which is you would think you know it.
3:00
He claims he's Satoshi. You know someone who invented or
3:04
discovered the depending on which way, the way, the way that
3:07
you see it, they would go out of their way to silence people.
3:11
That doesn't sound like something that Satoshi would do
3:14
or say. So anyways, I I think that this
3:17
is the end of a you know of a a very very kind of ugly thing
3:22
that that some bitcoiners had to go through.
3:24
I think this is finally end, you know, for a judge to go out and
3:28
basically say that Craig Wright lied essentially.
3:32
Also another news as well, we had the Bitcoin for corporations
3:36
event. But there is a specific clip
3:38
that I want to play for you guys today of Michael Saylor.
3:41
Just talking about you know the next 5 to 10 years really of you
3:45
know what, what would happen if you know major corporations or
3:49
you know in in in this example specifically he said 10,000
3:53
corporations started you know allocating some of their
3:59
treasuries into Bitcoin. What would happen, right.
4:02
I think a lot of things would happen, right?
4:04
What would happen if people, if these corporations instead of
4:08
selling their own stock, they just bought Bitcoin instead,
4:10
right. It's just very food for thought.
4:13
And of course, you know, he is standing on the performance of
4:16
MicroStrategy compared to everything else, which is
4:19
something that he did in the investor like in the quarterly
4:23
zoom call. And it was really interesting in
4:25
that call because the way that he said it was, it was like a
4:28
flex that the way that I perceived it because he had the
4:31
chart which will show for you guys comparing MicroStrategy to
4:35
the S&P 500 to the NASDAQ to gold to silver to bonds, even to
4:39
the big tech stocks. And there was a, there was like
4:42
an intern in the back that tried to pull that down and make
4:44
Michael Sailor full full screen. He was like no, no, no, no, no,
4:47
leave that up. Which tells me that, you know,
4:50
he wants people to see that, right.
4:52
And also we have a very, very special guest as well.
4:55
We have Patrick Fleury as well from he's the CFO.
4:59
Is that correct, Patrick? Yeah, that's right.
5:03
The CFO of Terra Wolf joining us today to talk about Bitcoin
5:06
mining. Really excited.
5:08
We're really excited to hear about that.
5:09
Also really excited to hear about Terra Wolf, what's going
5:12
on over there, and of course my legendary Co host who's always
5:15
optimistic holding it down with me in Canada this weekend at the
5:19
Canadian Bitcoin Conference. Dude, that was what, Friday?
5:22
Saturday. 2 back-to-back streams, 9 hours each.
5:27
Well, even even Thursday we got to get early set up.
5:30
Yeah, it was a long weekend, but it man, it was so worth it.
5:33
I absolutely love the city Of Montreal.
5:35
It's a great city. Good meeting all of you guys in
5:38
person. The amount of love we got from
5:40
every single one of you guys it feels incredible and it just
5:43
knows that that what we're doing super important and that you
5:45
guys rely on us to show up, be consistent, give you guys the
5:49
facts at least as far as we can tell it at the very moment.
5:52
But I do want to give us a very special shout out Nico I want to
5:55
give a special shout out to the whole Bitcoin well team we
5:58
shared a house with them absolutely incredible team and
6:01
and for you guys out there we saw some sneak peeks of the
6:04
things they're working on and they they're man they are
6:08
working constantly from the time they woke up to the time we went
6:11
to bed to to ship really really cool stuff for you guys.
6:15
So in the next couple of weeks you'll probably be hearing about
6:17
that but we did get us some cool sneak peeks and man it works so
6:21
much more incredible in Canada then I I kept, I kept yelling at
6:25
them like yeah that's cool and all but like we're American make
6:27
sure it works that great for us but man they're doing incredible
6:31
work. I absolutely love the whole
6:32
team. It was great hanging out with
6:33
them and maybe maybe I'll see them soon.
6:35
Mika Nico. Maybe I'll see them good.
6:38
Yeah, absolutely man. We, we we might be coming back
6:41
to Canada real quick very, very soon.
6:43
I also want to give this opportunity to Patrick to give a
6:47
little bit of just a breakdown what Terra Wolf is for anyone
6:52
who's not in the know. Obviously it's a publicly traded
6:54
Bitcoin mining company that's currently listed listed on the
6:58
on the NASDAQ, but I'm sure Patrick will do a little bit of
7:01
a better job just describing the the company overall.
7:03
So Patrick, if you were to give a quick one to two-minute
7:07
elevator pitch, what is Terra Wolf?
7:09
Why should our listeners care? Because you're talking to a
7:11
bunch of hardcore bitcoiners. Of course they're on the
7:14
mission, you know, they're behind this, this network,
7:16
they're behind this, this awesome initiative.
7:18
So what is Terra Wolf? Yeah, well, let me start.
7:21
Thank you guys for having me. You guys do an amazing service
7:24
for the whole Bitcoin community so I really appreciate the
7:28
privilege of of being on here with you guys.
7:30
So thank you. So yeah, quick elevator pitch
7:32
and I'll be shorter than a minute or two, but you know, we
7:36
are a the largest 0 carbon public Bitcoin miner in the US
7:40
We mine with about 95% 0 carbon power sources.
7:46
And really what distinguishes us from others is a couple things.
7:49
One, we have an extremely low cost of power.
7:52
So we actually have a Unicorn, I like to call it that, meaning we
7:56
mine behind the meter at one of the nation's largest nuclear
8:00
facilities. We are the only one in the US
8:02
that does that. That's one of our sites and
8:04
that's locked in power at $0.02 for five years.
8:08
And then our other site in Upstate New York pulls power
8:12
directly from Niagara Falls about 95% of the time.
8:16
So we're mining with hydroelectric power there.
8:19
Our blended cost to mine last year was 3.2 cents for the
8:23
entire year. I think that puts us among the
8:26
lowest. So again, super low production
8:28
cost, 0 carbon management team, insiders in the board.
8:34
We own about 40% of the equity of the company.
8:38
So we are really aligned with all other shareholders.
8:41
And I think you know a little different, we're much more
8:44
careful about dilution on our ATM because of that fact.
8:47
You know, we still do dilute to grow accretively, but we're much
8:52
more strategic about it as opposed to many of our peers are
8:55
systematic and you know we're very obviously ESG focused.
9:00
As I mentioned, we've got a lot of women on our management team,
9:04
about 50% of executives are women and we're zero carbon
9:07
focus. So I think that's kind of big
9:10
picture. I would say the one other thing
9:11
we do a little bit differently than most others is we don't
9:15
have a big holdle balance, we don't holdle right now.
9:18
We monetize what we mine. And so like a true commodity
9:22
company, you know, I'm mining it today at about 40,000.
9:26
I checked this morning, you know it's on the screens at 67.
9:29
So I'm selling, I'm generating about six, 6 1/2 Bitcoin a day
9:33
and we're selling that and taking those proceeds, paying
9:36
down debt and then also using that cash to grow accretively.
9:40
So that's a quick snapshot of what we do.
9:43
Awesome. Well, man, I'm really excited,
9:45
Patrick, to hear more about it. During the culture segment,
9:48
we're gonna highlight Terra Wolf, what you guys get into
9:52
more detail of everything you just said.
9:54
That was an incredible elevator pitch by the way, highlighted
9:56
all the important points. So looking forward to hearing
9:59
more about it during the culture segment.
10:01
Guys like I said if you're tuning in the our our sound
10:05
board did not surprise did not survive the trip back from
10:08
Canada. We my mine didn't.
10:10
So we are currently working on a fix we should have that fixed
10:13
for you guys So the audio's back up to pair by Tuesday Wednesday.
10:17
So bear with us but you know the show don't stop.
10:20
This is simply Bitcoin after all.
10:22
The honey badger doesn't stop Honey badger media doesn't stop.
10:25
All right everybody before we dive into the numbers I do want
10:28
to give an extremely special shout out to our lead sponsor.
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Stamp it on titanium? Yeah dude, I can't even hear
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myself back without using the sound board.
13:18
So this is a little bit of a curveball starting off Monday,
13:21
but anyways, we'll roll through it.
13:22
This is live at the time of recording.
13:24
The Bitcoin price is 67,720 SATS per dollar 1477 block height
13:32
844,320 blocks to having 2205 thousand 680 having estimate
13:41
March 22nd 2028 Total Lightning network capacity 4645 Bitcoin
13:47
capacity value 314 million Realized monetary inflation
13:51
1.66% Market capitalization 1.33 trillion Bitcoin verse gold
13:58
market cap 8.04%. In the grand scheme of things
14:02
Bitcoin is just getting started. Anyways, I did mention this
14:06
little bit by Michael Saylor. This is a This is a clip from
14:09
the Bitcoin for corporations Bitcoin for Corporations live
14:14
stream that was hosted by a friends over at Bitcoin
14:16
magazine. I'll play the clip and then
14:18
we'll talk about it. Imagine what happens when 10,000
14:21
operating companies start recapitalizing.
14:27
Imagine a world where 10,000 companies keep their cash flows
14:30
and don't dividend them out. Imagine 10,000 companies buying
14:33
Bitcoin instead of buying their own stock.
14:36
Imagine 10,000 companies issuing debt securities to buy Bitcoin
14:42
instead of issuing debt to buy their own stock.
14:45
Right. And you can.
14:46
You can see how at some point as you go from one company to 10
14:52
companies to 100 companies to 1000 companies, at some point
14:55
these become a massive capital gateway and that's how you see
14:59
the trillions and 10s of trillions of.
15:01
Dollars of capital flow out of the analog economy into the
15:06
digital economy, and the world turns upside down for those
15:11
firms. So I I saved this clip
15:14
specifically because I knew Patrick was coming on today.
15:16
Patrick, you are the CFO of a publicly traded company.
15:20
So what is the significance of what Michael Saylor just said?
15:27
Yeah. Look, I think it's and maybe it
15:30
my perspective is a little bit different just because I I've
15:33
been on the institutional investing by side of Wall Street
15:39
for almost 18 years. Before I I was CFO of terrible.
15:42
So look, I think what he's getting at which is simply with
15:45
with the advent of ETFs, you know the institutional community
15:49
now is very focused on this asset class.
15:51
And I think as that becomes more accepted by folks like my Old
15:57
Firm Blackstone and also Black Rock and and others, then as
16:03
companies turn to treasury management strategies, right,
16:09
Bitcoin becomes a a a very logical piece of that treasury
16:14
management strategy. So I think, you know, just as
16:17
adoption increases, I think you're likely to see companies
16:21
not just use, you know, money market funds and treasuries, but
16:25
Bitcoin. And so I think it's just a
16:29
simple adoption strategy as it becomes, you know, more
16:31
institutionally acceptable. Absolutely, I 100% agree with
16:36
that. And then also the just the Flex,
16:40
I think you could talk this big game, right and you could say
16:45
that these things are happening, but I think the proof is in the
16:48
work, the data is the data. This has been micro strategies
16:52
performance since they've adopted a Bitcoin strategy.
16:56
You know they've even outperformed Bitcoin in a way,
16:58
right? So Bitcoin, the S&P 500 and for
17:01
audio listeners is the NASDAQ is up 900.
17:04
Sorry, the micro strategy is up 937%.
17:07
Bitcoin is up 435%, The S&P is up 52%.
17:11
The NASDAQ is up 5445%. Gold is up 15%, Silver is down
17:16
3%, bonds down 21%. Google is up 132%, Microsoft is
17:21
up 95%, meta is up 69%. So clearly what Michael Sealer
17:25
has done, you know, adopting this Bitcoin strategy, this
17:28
alternative to to holding Fiat is he's, you know, he's
17:31
outperformed a lot of these, you know, a lot of these traditional
17:33
investments. So I think it's extremely
17:35
interesting and let's see, let's see how this plays out.
17:39
Opti, what's your take on this, brother?
17:41
Yeah, well, first and foremost, obviously love this graphic and
17:44
we're going to keep it up. You know, I was going to full
17:46
screen myself but we'll keep it up because I think and Larry
17:48
Laparde said this on the live stream at lunch on day two.
17:53
And yes, of course as bitcoins we, we don't like to speculate
17:56
on price or quote UN quote, don't like to speculate on
17:58
price. And you know everyone gets
18:00
yelled out because number go up. And it's like it's not all about
18:02
number go up, it's about freedom go up.
18:04
But as Lady Leopard was saying, it's very important to explain
18:09
to people that Bitcoin is the best performing ads in the last
18:12
15 years. Like it's bar none is the best
18:15
way to save value. Or if you want to just look at
18:17
it as an investment it it's the the best returns in the last 15
18:22
years is because of Bitcoin. So I don't think we can beat
18:24
that topic enough into people's brains.
18:26
Because like people need to know that the majority of people
18:29
still think that like bitcoin's a scam or you know it's Internet
18:32
money or whatever flood lines they've heard.
18:35
But on paper the numbers don't lie.
18:38
It is the best performing asset in the world.
18:40
And so as much as Bitcoiners like to avoid the topic of price
18:44
and Bitcoin price are saying that the Bitcoin price is
18:46
irrelevant and all that stuff like it's very important to show
18:49
to average everyday people basically what is in it for them
18:53
and it's the best performing asset, period.
18:55
Like anything has has never come close to Bitcoin.
18:58
Yes, Michael Saylor is doing some incredible stuff with with
19:01
MicroStrategy and now we're seeing that there's different
19:04
avenues now to incorporate Bitcoin and maybe outperform
19:07
Bitcoin. But for average everyday people,
19:09
Bitcoin is the best performing asset commodity in the world.
19:14
And it all goes back to one basic principle that we like to
19:18
beat in people's heads is that everyone on planet Earth,
19:22
whether it's an individual or a corporation or a nation state,
19:25
we all have the same problem. We are all looking for ways to
19:29
store our value. And the traditional quote UN
19:32
quote, risk free assets are no longer risk free.
19:36
Like most people would much rather buy a treasury or
19:39
something of the sort. And now they're realizing maybe
19:42
I don't want government debt. Maybe maybe this is not the way
19:45
to store my value and maybe I just want to simplify the
19:48
process and save in the hardest, best money that the world has
19:51
ever seen. And maybe I want to simplify my
19:54
my life by just saving a Bitcoin.
19:56
And it all goes back to that one simple idea that everyone on
20:01
planet earth again, whether an individual or a corporation, has
20:04
the same problem. If you are saving in Fiat, you
20:08
are holding melting ice cubes. And if you're buying government
20:11
debt, maybe it's not as risk free as you thought it was.
20:15
And now there's an alternative and it's called Bitcoin.
20:17
So once the corporations start to.
20:19
To really understand that very simple principle and every
20:23
corporation out there starts to have some Bitcoin on the balance
20:26
sheet. Like of course, you know, throw
20:29
your tomatoes all you want, but number will go up and with that
20:31
freedom will go up. And like lightning guts in the
20:34
chat like, man, when when retail finally gets into Bitcoin, the
20:39
price is going to explode. So it's looking like we're going
20:41
to have a very, very strong end of the year.
20:44
And also one last thing, we kind of covered it last week, but we
20:47
got the Q1 disclosures of the institutions that are holding
20:54
the Bitcoin ETF. Of course where we call it
20:57
captured Bitcoin, we want people holding spot Bitcoin directly,
21:00
but some very huge names came out, which is very not only
21:05
interesting but inspiring that finally these institutions that
21:08
I always kind of like into like the Titanic ship turning around,
21:12
they're starting to trickle into Bitcoin.
21:14
So the next month or the sorry the next quarter falling one
21:18
after that and the end of the year, it's going to be
21:20
absolutely incredible. I think we're going to have a
21:22
strong end of the year guys. So continue to stack, continue
21:25
to take Bitcoin into custody. We're winning so hard.
21:28
It's so absolutely incredible. Yeah, we're winning.
21:31
It's it's crazy what happens when you're holding NGU
21:34
technology. Anyways, I do want to give a
21:36
very special shout out to the Pleb party that is happening
21:41
around the Nashville Bitcoin Conference.
21:44
So if you're already going to the to the Bitcoin 2024
21:47
conference, the largest Bitcoin conference on planet Earth
21:51
that's going to be in Nashville, TN this year, you definitely
21:54
don't want to miss the Pleb party.
21:56
It's a 12 hour open bar from noon to midnight in Nashville,
22:01
the day before the biggest Bitcoin conference.
22:04
It's Thursday, July 25th. Confirmed attendees so far
22:08
include Larry, Leopard, Preston, Pish, the entire Simply Bitcoin
22:12
crew, including Nico Sophie, Opti, Ruston James, Lavish,
22:16
Robert Breedlove, Mark Moss Puppy, Tatum, Turnup.
22:20
It's going to be hosted an amazing venue, A rustic
22:23
automobile factory from the year 1910 with brick walls and tons
22:28
of Proof of work atmosphere. That's right, the venue was
22:31
built before the establishment of the Federal Reserve in 1913,
22:36
so it's probably a great venue. Over 1000 Bitcoin plebs are
22:40
expected to attend the event. You definitely don't want to
22:43
miss this celebration. Don't wait to get your tickets,
22:46
because the last event, the tickets sold out before the
22:49
event, so you couldn't You literally, you were turned away
22:51
from the door if you didn't get your tickets.
22:53
So at the current price point, there's only around 40 tickets
22:56
left. You want to get your you want to
22:58
get your tickets now before the price increases.
23:01
So you can scan the QR code or you could check the link in the
23:04
video description. Don't miss the Pleb Party at
23:08
Bitcoin Nashville 2024. All right, everybody, let's hit
23:12
the news. We have a lot to talk about.
23:16
The Daily News. I want to give a shout out to
23:20
our sponsor, Foundation Devices. It's self custody done right.
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24:15
All right everybody you at If you're watching this show,
24:18
there's currently 740 of you guys watching.
24:20
I made it incredibly easy for you guys.
24:22
You can scan the QR code right now on your screen.
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It will take you directly to the Passport by Foundation Devices
24:28
website where you guys can get yourself a Passport hardware
24:32
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sovereignty using Bitcoin, but you can only do that if you're
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taking self custody of your Bitcoin and if you pair the
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Passport wallet with the Envoy app.
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Even like OPTI was messy when he did it, he was like, freaking
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easy, it literally makes spending Bitcoin from cold
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storage incredibly easy. So check out Passport by by
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Foundation devices. Scan the QR code or check the
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link in the video description. All right, everybody, let's get
25:00
to today's news. We have a lot to cover.
25:03
First, we're going to start off with this Jack Dorsey news.
25:06
So Jack Dorsey says the Bitcoin price will go beyond 1,000,000
25:10
by 2030. Now what's really interesting is
25:12
now you have very you have two notable figures, you have Kathy
25:15
Wood from Ark Invest and now you have Jack Dorsey.
25:19
So the article goes on to say this was originally from an
25:22
interview that he did with pirate wires.
25:25
He said someone was asking him about the Bitcoin price and he
25:28
said quote, I don't know, over at least a million.
25:30
I do think it hits that number and goes beyond.
25:33
He goes on to say, quote, the most amazing thing about Bitcoin
25:36
apart from the founding story is anyone who works on it or gets
25:40
paid in it, or buys for it themselves even.
25:43
But even everyone who puts any efforts into into it make it
25:48
better is making the entire ecosystem better, which makes
25:52
the price go up. And that's a really good point.
25:54
And this is something that we've hit on many, many times on
25:57
simply Bitcoin. And it's this idea of the
26:00
aligned incentive structure model which is incomplete.
26:04
It's in stark contrast with how the Fiat system works, which I
26:07
would say is a misaligned incentive structure model.
26:10
Everyone in Bitcoin miners, people who run nodes, even
26:14
people that make content just them, you know, following their
26:17
own incentives, make the network stronger, right?
26:20
So it's, it's aligned incentive structure model versus a
26:23
misaligned incentive structure model.
26:25
And I think if the whole world is on an aligned incentive
26:29
structure model, I think it will make the world better.
26:31
I think that's why us bitcoiners always say fix the money, fix
26:35
the world. It's as simple as that.
26:36
But I think a lot of people don't think it is anyways.
26:39
It goes on to say, well, 1,000,000 seems like a stretch
26:42
from Bitcoin's current price of this.
26:44
This article was written a couple days ago. 60,886, where
26:48
it's currently at 68,000, still applies, though other big names
26:51
in the industry have voiced similar outlooks.
26:53
Arc Invest founder and CEO Kathy Wood has even taken it a step
26:57
further, predicting the token will reach 1.5 million by 2030.
27:03
Ever since stepping down as Twitter CEO in 2021, Dorsey has
27:06
become an advocate for the industry, leading and endorsing
27:09
several projects over the years. In 20/19, he had become a backer
27:14
of social media startup Blue Sky, which he recently stepped
27:17
away from as his vision for a decentralized social media
27:20
platform aligns more with the competitor Noster.
27:24
I wouldn't even say Noster. I mean, technically it's a
27:26
competitor, but it's like Noster is not a company, right?
27:29
Not Noster's, You know, it's a it's a protocol.
27:31
Anyone could build on top of Noster, right?
27:33
You have different apps, you have the Damus app, you have the
27:36
Primal app. So like, yes and no I guess.
27:40
And it goes on to say Dorsey also founded a company called
27:43
Square in 2008, 2009 which he rebranded to Block in 2021.
27:48
The second piece of news which I find interesting is the
27:51
Venezuela cracks down on Bitcoin mining.
27:55
It goes on to say Venezuela's Ministry of Electric Power has
27:59
has has started to disconnect Bitcoin and cryptocurrency
28:02
mining farms from the National Grid.
28:05
The local government claims the move will help, quote regulate
28:08
excess energy consumption. It goes on to say an ex post
28:12
from Venezuela's National Association of Cryptocurrency
28:15
states that the cryptocurrency mining is now prohibited in
28:18
Venezuela. Quote.
28:19
We recommend that any person or company that has installed
28:22
equipment uninstall it and store it to avoid inconvenience.
28:26
We do not consider that this has a solution in the medium or
28:30
short term. It goes on to say as part of the
28:33
crackdown, over 11,000 Bitcoin miners have been confiscated.
28:37
This follows another quote, anti corruption initiative in the
28:40
city of Maracay where 2000 crypto maracay, Maracay, I'm
28:44
pretty sure where 2000 cryptocurrency mining devices
28:47
were seized. Here's like this video of this
28:49
guy, like he's literally just talking about how you know, he's
28:53
making the case as to, you know, like we're doing this for you.
28:56
Then he just kind of shows all these containers.
28:59
What an interesting part of it though is that during this video
29:01
he's like, I have nothing against, you know, Bitcoin or
29:04
whatever, or I have nothing against cryptocurrencies.
29:06
Anyways, it goes on to say Venezuela has been experiencing
29:09
recurring blackouts since 2019 due to shortages of fuel,
29:14
rampant corruption that weighs weighs down the country's
29:17
economy. Here are three tweets from
29:20
notable bitcoiners or notable people involved in the industry.
29:24
First one is from you. I have lived in Venezuela. 99%
29:28
of people there do not pay for electricity.
29:30
I can confirm that, by the way. They'll make examples of a few
29:33
miners. But because Venezuela has been
29:34
forced by communism into a culture of criminality,
29:37
disobedience, bribes and murder will guarantee that Bitcoin
29:41
mining continues. By the way, I really agree with
29:43
that because even with the CCP mining ban in China, it's
29:47
estimated that a portion of the hash rate is still located in
29:50
China even after the ban, right? Here's Adam.
29:53
He works with upstream data and he goes on to say, quote, moving
29:58
our Bitcoin mining operations of Venezuela for cheap Alger
30:01
electric power turned out to be a pretty terrible strategy.
30:05
Alex Gladstein with the Human Rights Foundation says Bitcoin
30:08
does not mix well with dictators who tried to control every
30:11
aspect of their population. It also short circuits despots
30:16
who try to subsidize cheap energy to avoid getting
30:19
overthrown. Now here's what I got to say
30:21
about this though, is that they'll make like APR splash
30:24
about this, but I guarantee you that those miners are already on
30:27
again. Like.
30:30
Like, I guarantee you that they're already on.
30:32
And the part where he said the interest, he kind of buried the
30:36
lead, which is like no one pays for power and electricity.
30:40
This is something that I've seen.
30:42
This is something because you have to understand that there's
30:45
two rates for electricity, right?
30:48
There's the actual market rate, the actual black market exchange
30:51
rate and then there's the exchange rate by the government,
30:55
the official exchange rate, which is significantly more
30:58
expensive, but everyone actually pays the black market rate.
31:01
So even if you were to pay for electricity, Venezuela, it's
31:04
essentially for it's essentially free, right?
31:07
But of course there's the security situation on the floor.
31:10
This is not a, this is not a in the at the at the country.
31:14
It's not a it's not a country that you'd actually want to set
31:16
up a large mining operation because essentially you would
31:19
need, you know, the the green light from the government.
31:22
Do you want to get involved with the Venezuelan government?
31:24
The US government has sanctions against them, but I just find it
31:27
interesting because they kind of use this as a giant PR stunt
31:30
like we are here to help. You know it's the Bitcoin miners
31:34
that are are are causing the instability in the, in the
31:37
mining grid. Where have we seen that before?
31:39
We've seen that excuse been used before someplace else, right.
31:44
It's the Bitcoin miners. It has nothing to, it has
31:46
nothing to do with how we're running the country, you know or
31:49
or you know the economic hardships.
31:51
It's always this outside factor that's the cause which you know,
31:54
I find interesting to say the least.
31:57
And of course the last piece of news that I want to get to today
31:59
before I pass it on to the panel, OPTI and our guest today,
32:03
Patrick Craig Wright lied to UK court extensively and
32:08
repeatedly. Judge Wright It goes on to say
32:11
Craig Wright lied extensively and repeatedly and both his
32:15
written and oral evidence in the Crypto Open Patent Alliance case
32:19
regarding his claim to be Satoshi Nakamoto, Judge James
32:23
Miller said in his written judgment on Monday.
32:26
Miller also concluded that the issue of an injunction
32:29
adjunctive relief, a legal remedy to stop a defendant from
32:32
doing something, will be argued at a form of order hearing that
32:36
will be appointed after the judge has been handed down.
32:39
Miller in March concluded Wright was not Nakamoto, the synonymous
32:44
inventor of Bitcoin, and that he had not authored the crypto
32:47
currencies foundational document known as the white paper.
32:50
Goes on to say quote, I want to thank those of you who sent me
32:53
messages of support yesterday. I await the written judgment at
32:57
which point I will consider my options for appeal, Wright said
33:01
on Twitter. Although the ruling could be
33:03
appealed, Miller's definitive, definitive statement following
33:06
the month long-awaited trial was cause for celebration for the
33:10
broader crypto industry which has long criticized and been
33:13
victim to Wright's legal battles against members of the
33:16
community. Quote Doctor Wright is not the
33:19
person who adopted or operated under the pseudonym Satoshi
33:22
Nakamoto in the period 2008 to 2011.
33:26
Third, Doctor Wright is not the person who created the Bitcoin
33:29
system and 4th he is not the author of the initial versions
33:32
of the Bitcoin software, Miller said.
33:35
After both parties to the trial had presented their evidence,
33:38
the Crypto Open Patent Alliance, whose stated mission is to
33:42
protect the adoption of crypto and fight threats against the
33:45
new technology, filed to take right to court in 2021, the
33:49
trial commenced on February 5th with Copa accusing Wright of
33:53
forgery and later perjury. It goes on to say the judge
33:57
said, quote, I'm entirely satisfied that Doctor Right,
34:01
Doctor Wright lied to the court extensively and repeatedly.
34:06
Most of his lies related to the documents he had forged which
34:10
purported to support his claim. Again, this isn't Bitcoin
34:15
Twitter making those claims. This is a judge.
34:19
This is a magistrate. That is a big deal.
34:22
Are there going to be legal conscious to this?
34:24
I mean perjury is a is a crime, right?
34:28
Also what I got to say, you know, without getting too
34:31
opinionated on you know, CSW is this is vindication for the
34:37
space cat hot or not. This is vindication for Peter
34:40
McCormack, which I believe were victims of the, you know, the of
34:45
of Craig Wright. Taking advantage of EU KS libel
34:49
laws to, you know, to go after them to silence them using
34:53
lawfare, using his war chess to go after opponents you know and
34:59
and of course you know someone who claims he's Satoshi.
35:02
He created uncensorable money, is using the law to silence his
35:08
opponents. That that doesn't make sense to
35:10
me personally, but now you have 3 judges and three separate
35:15
jurisdictions, Norway, the United Kingdom and a judge in
35:18
Florida that have all said not as bluntly as this judge that
35:22
Craig Wright, you know, lied. So, I mean, is it over?
35:27
It looks like it Is this Sega over.
35:30
Is Craig Wright gonna use the legal system to pursue other
35:34
people? I mean, I think he's gonna have
35:36
a hard time just because of the statements coming out of this
35:40
judge, which I'm sure had to review all the evidence and to
35:44
come up with these types of statements like this isn't
35:48
Twitter. I can't emphasize this enough.
35:50
This is a judge who is like very, very openly and bluntly
35:54
saying that Craig Wright committed perjury.
35:57
That is a big statement. And you know, shout out to Space
36:02
Cap for fighting this. How long has he been fighting
36:04
this OPTI? For years and years.
36:06
I think it's like 4 years now. Yeah, four years that he's been
36:10
basically persecuted, you know. So shout out to, you know, shout
36:14
out to Space Cat for being, you know, vindicated.
36:17
Shout out to Peter McCormack as well.
36:19
I think justice was done in this situation and hopefully this law
36:25
fair that he's been committing against these guys is finally
36:28
over. So, Opti, what's your, what's
36:30
your thoughts on the CSW case and all the other things?
36:33
Yeah, well first and foremost like I think the very, the very
36:37
obvious and I'm not here to like call anyone's names, but only a
36:41
complete psychopath would want to claim to be Satoshi because
36:44
Satoshi knew that you you like. If people knew who he was then
36:49
he would very quickly be attacked and go to jail And and
36:52
that's the beauty of him leaving in 2010 is basically saying like
36:55
here's my creation, no ones in control of this.
36:58
There's no figurehead to chop down and hopefully after this
37:02
news we can finally close this chapter behind us and maybe get
37:06
some closure on this. Obviously we don't know what's
37:09
going to happen from here, but of course you know shouts out
37:11
the hot not even Peter McCormick for for having to put up their
37:14
own sets to to fight this case and hopefully this won't ever
37:17
happen again. So shouts out to the three
37:20
different judges or three different courts at this point
37:22
that have all confirmed the very same thing.
37:25
So let's hope that the next time rather let's hope that this is
37:28
the last time and there is no next time.
37:30
Because man, there's just so much damage that has been done
37:34
for not only just bit corners but I think the Bitcoin space in
37:37
general with all the the forks and and confusing people on you
37:41
know what the real Bitcoin is and what's really Satoshi's
37:44
vision and all this stuff. So hopefully the the cargo cult
37:48
members that have been LED astray on the various forks of
37:53
Bitcoin can finally see the truth and come back to the real
37:56
Bitcoin, even though they're probably their heads are blowing
37:58
up right now. Like you know it is the real
38:00
Bitcoin. Yeah, whatever, whatever.
38:02
I think we can all agree, at least all of us bitcoiners can
38:04
agree that they are lost in the sauce.
38:07
Anyways, let's go back to the beginning to the Jack Dorsey
38:11
news. Obviously, it's my role here to
38:14
be Jack Dorsey is bearish. Come on, man, this is, this is
38:19
bearish. No, I'm.
38:21
I'm trolling. Obviously, I think $1 million by
38:24
2030 in, you know, six years would be incredible.
38:27
But hopefully the idea is that Bitcoin will be worth $1 million
38:31
in today's purchasing power, which really means that it's
38:34
going to go over $1 million. So let's hope that that's the
38:37
idea. But hey, maybe the dollar won't
38:41
inflate as much as we imagine it.
38:43
Well, in the six years. And so hopefully $1,000,000
38:46
doesn't go way of, you know, the Venezuelan Blvd.
38:50
And that's the perfect transition because man, we had a
38:53
blast in in Canada tearing up the Venezuelan Blvd.
38:58
One of our friends had his kid there and we had bricks of
39:01
Venezuelan boulevards. And I think we did the math.
39:04
We had $102.00 Venezuelan boulevards and bricks.
39:08
And I I forget what it was, but it was like 200 pennies or
39:11
something. Like it was 3 ridiculous
39:13
inflation rate. It was a ridiculous exchange
39:16
rate. And one of our friends, he had
39:18
his kids there and they were like having a blast.
39:20
Just they were just ripped up probably like hundreds of
39:23
Venezuelan boulevards and we had to clean up after them and and
39:27
she Isabella, because she was encouraging them and then we had
39:30
to clean it up. But man, the irony is not lost
39:34
on me. Of course they got us close, the
39:35
escape hatches. Of course they're going to try
39:37
to stop Bitcoin mining at this point.
39:40
And like Nico said, it seemed like APR move because I if I
39:42
remember correctly, Nico, hasn't this been happening?
39:45
Didn't they do this before? A couple of years ago they did a
39:48
very similar thing. Or maybe this was more privately
39:51
and they didn't make it so public where they were basically
39:54
stealing a six and then mining for themselves.
39:57
But now they're doing it publicly like, hey guys, you
39:59
know, we're we're stopping these big bad Bitcoin miners.
40:02
Now, but man, I'm not surprised. Especially when you really
40:07
understand the the dynamic playing out.
40:09
Like if if you have a hyperinflating currency, if you
40:13
have a very weak Fiat currency, then of course as as you know, a
40:17
despot, you got to stop people going to the escape hatches.
40:20
We hear this rhetoric coming from everywhere.
40:23
We've seen this try before. We will continue to see this
40:26
happen. And of course This is why they
40:28
are so actively hell bent against Bitcoin is because it is
40:32
an actual solution, as we say all the time here, you know, say
40:36
what you want about politics, but there is no political
40:38
solution to this. You need to save in something
40:40
that cannot be the base, that cannot be censored and of course
40:44
that is Bitcoin. And the more people fight
40:47
Bitcoin, the more I know we are correct and we are on the right
40:51
path. As I say all the time, you can't
40:53
ban Bitcoin, that you can only ban yourself from Bitcoin.
40:56
So hey man, as much as this is harmful for the Venezuelan
41:00
population, or rather the binders in in in this particular
41:05
situation, they can't stop Bitcoin.
41:07
And this just makes me know that that we're right and we we keep
41:10
winning it. It's super awesome.
41:11
When I see tyrants try to fight Bitcoin, I love it.
41:15
Accelerate, Nico. Accelerate.
41:17
So I'm gonna. I'm gonna pass it on to Patrick
41:19
and I also want to apologize for anyone who's watching in in the
41:22
in the in the audience right now.
41:24
I don't have my usual sound board.
41:26
It got destroyed during our travels to Canada.
41:29
I will get that fixed by Tuesday or Wednesday.
41:32
So bear with us. I also can't hear myself back so
41:36
I usually I'm able to do that and you know catch some slip UPS
41:40
which apparently happened while I was speaking.
41:42
Anyways, I do want to pass it on to Patrick.
41:44
Patrick, what's your take? How many times have been quit
41:47
been bent and all these different countries and it it
41:51
not working? Yeah, so I was just thinking,
41:55
this is kind of a cool format, 'cause I can watch this, some
41:57
scrolling chat on the side, but look, there's a lot to unpack
42:01
and all that news and and not only that, I just wanted to
42:06
address a couple of the comments on the side.
42:07
So one of the comments that caught my attention was how, you
42:10
know, I talked about how Terrell is focused on ESG and how that
42:13
isn't in line with proof of work ethos.
42:16
And I honestly couldn't disagree more with that because I think
42:19
particularly in the Bitcoin community, right and why it's
42:22
been banned in a lot of other areas is a function of political
42:27
misunderstanding, but also political misunderstanding about
42:30
sustainability and what we as Bitcoin miners provide to the
42:35
grid and the benefits. So not only the benefits that we
42:38
provide right to this decentralized system, right.
42:42
For all the points you guys have talked about, it's way better
42:44
than Fiat obviously. But I think you have to
42:47
understand like how the power grid actually works and and our
42:53
company is founded by 30 year private power veterans, right.
42:57
And so in the US particularly I think if if Bitcoin mining is
43:02
going to flourish, it has to be all about sustainability.
43:06
Increasing the penetration of renewable resources like wind
43:10
and solar and Bitcoin, helping that increase in penetration by
43:15
providing floors for prices like for example for wind in Texas at
43:20
night when power prices are negative.
43:22
You know we can pay that wind farm two cents because that's an
43:25
amazingly good price of power for us to to mine power, which
43:30
will allow that wind farm to go into business.
43:33
Get two cents from us overnight when prices are otherwise
43:36
negative, and then provide that service to the grid at a higher
43:39
price when there's a lot of demand from commercial and
43:43
residential customers. And so I think it's really
43:46
critically important to to think about Sustainable 0 Carbon, in
43:53
particular Bitcoin mining in the US because again, the way the
43:57
grid works, like we always say, we are never going to be an
44:01
incremental unit of demand. So when you think about where
44:04
our Bitcoin sites are sited, we're at places where there is
44:09
an abundance of excess 0 carbon power.
44:12
And what we do is we sit there and when the residential
44:15
commercial grid isn't stressed, we soak up that power.
44:19
And we and by doing that, remember every single person
44:23
that's that's you know on this chat, all of us, both as
44:25
residential consumers of electricity.
44:27
If you ever look at your electricity bill, you pay for
44:30
two things. One, you pay for the commodity,
44:33
right, which is just based on how much you use of it.
44:36
But then you pay for transmission and distribution,
44:40
which are all the wires to bring the power from the generation
44:44
station to your house. That is a fixed charge.
44:47
So same as residential consumers, us and our Bitcoin
44:50
mine, we pay for the actual commodity, the amount we use.
44:55
Then at our Lake Mariner site in Upstate New York, we're also
44:59
being charged transmission and distribution charges.
45:02
And so the beauty of that is that transmission and
45:06
distribution charge is fixed. The system is the system.
45:10
And so by us being there and consuming a significant amount
45:15
of power that would otherwise be unused, we're actually spreading
45:19
out that transmission and distribution charge among a
45:22
much, much wider base. So we're actually lowering the
45:25
price for others in Upstate New York on their transmission and
45:29
distribution charges. So that ethos, that
45:32
sustainability ethos, I think is super critical to Bitcoin mining
45:37
succeeding. And not only that, but being
45:40
revered as having a true place in the evolution of the
45:45
electricity grid in the US That's how the grid is going to
45:48
increase renewable penetration and how we're going to get away
45:52
from fossil fuels. I mean, I live in Wyoming.
45:54
I got 2 little kids, they're 8 and 10.
45:57
My 10 year old, as soon as he knew that I was ACFO of Bitcoin
46:00
mining company, he's like, dad, you're not mining with coal, are
46:04
you? I said no, of course not.
46:05
So I, I I again like like the younger generations and everyone
46:09
that's into Bitcoin mining and the way we are going to succeed
46:13
in this country is absolutely pushing that you know 0 carbon
46:18
renewable ESG thesis that is what I think will allow us to
46:23
all to succeed that makes. Yeah, absolutely.
46:26
It makes sense. And and thank you for that
46:28
insight, Patrick. And I just want to ask you like
46:31
why do you think there's such a disconnect between and I think
46:34
this is what we saw in Venezuela.
46:35
We, I think we saw this in Norway as well as why do you
46:39
think that there's this kind of the in in New York State I
46:42
believe as well past they pass a mining mammary where they where
46:46
essentially no more proof of work mining as well.
46:48
Why do you think that there's such a disconnect between some
46:52
politicians that I know that they're they're trying to do
46:54
good right. Maybe not in the case of
46:56
Venezuela maybe that's just trying to cover up some some
46:59
shortcomings of of the of the local government over there.
47:02
But, you know, in the case of like New York or in the case of
47:05
some of the more developed countries, why do you think, I
47:08
think that there's such a disconnect between certain
47:11
politicians and what is at what Bitcoin is actually doing?
47:15
Because you're absolutely right. Like Bitcoin mining is a
47:19
consumer of, of stranded energy, excess energy, right, Energy
47:23
that was already going to. Because if not, it wouldn't, it
47:25
wouldn't make economical sense for you to use that energy to
47:28
mine, right? You kind of have to find these
47:30
isolated energy pockets, right? That's where it makes economical
47:33
sense, right? Why do you think there is such a
47:36
disconnect and what what kind of what can we do as an industry to
47:40
really educate you know these lawmakers on the reality of this
47:45
I, I, I, I kind of, I believe you're gonna you're you're gonna
47:47
go with the, the that's where this whole ESG movement and and
47:51
this ESG strategy from Terra Wolf comes into play.
47:55
Is that correct? That, that that's exactly right.
47:57
So look, that's a great question, but let's take New
48:01
York because New York is really applicable to us.
48:04
We took a site that was the last coal plant in New York, retired
48:10
it and in return you know got a a long term contract to buy
48:15
wholesale power from Niagara Falls.
48:18
I mean that's win, win for everybody.
48:19
Not only that, we took employees that have been working at that
48:23
site for 30 years and retrain them, hired more jobs because
48:27
we're constructing all all these buildings there.
48:30
And so the local community loves that, right.
48:32
And it's a it's that's what Bitcoin's all about to me.
48:34
It's a feel good story where you know, the education district is
48:38
still getting taxes because we've repositioned this big
48:41
nasty fossil fuel fired coal plant into now this beautiful
48:45
Bitcoin mine. So I just think in cases like
48:48
that it's win, win. So New York, right, they get a
48:51
little bit of a bad rap. But New York went after one of
48:55
our fellow peers that's a public Bitcoin miner because they took
48:59
a formerly retired gas plant, sort of unretired it, so
49:05
reactivate it and then we're mining Bitcoin with natural gas.
49:09
And if anybody knows New York, I have been laws that live in
49:12
Cornell. I mean it is the biggest, you
49:15
know, not in my backyard state, no fracking, You know, they
49:18
don't want more transmission lines.
49:20
It's they just retired Indian Point nuclear facility, right,
49:23
which was a nuke just north of New York City.
49:27
So it is a highly political state.
49:30
But they have embraced us with open arms.
49:33
There's a bunch of other Bitcoin miners, you know, I know up in
49:36
Buffalo and Niagara that are also mining from hydro and they
49:39
have fully embraced that. So really the ban that New York
49:43
politicians drove was they didn't want any more fossil
49:46
fuels or plants that were retired formally being
49:50
reactivated and coming on. And you know again, I generally
49:54
like, I agree. I think most people on this call
49:56
will probably say, yeah, that that makes sense.
49:58
I don't, I don't, you know, I don't like it when states or or
50:01
jurisdiction ban Bitcoin mining, but I also am of the mind that
50:05
we shouldn't be mining Bitcoin with fossil fuels, right.
50:08
And so yeah I think it's it's in in in my experience as you teach
50:15
people Nico how we are mining Bitcoin again with stranded
50:21
resources that are allowing more renewable resources to come onto
50:26
the grid to be there in times of demand for.
50:29
I mean that's a great story and and that's how we're going to
50:31
continue to succeed in the US and frankly Dr. more of Bitcoin
50:36
mining here into the US And so I think, look it's it's it was on
50:40
the Twitter spaces a couple weeks ago, we were talking about
50:44
Bitcoin mining abroad. And I would tell you like that's
50:47
really hard to do because you don't have the same rule of law
50:53
in a lot of places that you do have in, in the States.
50:57
And so you know, you might be able to get a good price in a
51:00
different international jurisdiction.
51:03
But if if that regime changes, meaning the, you know, president
51:07
or or you know whoever's running the country changes, you know,
51:13
you just put hundreds of millions of dollars in the
51:15
ground, right, for Transformers and buildings and miners and
51:20
that's that's a big bet to take on shareholders money.
51:23
And so we're we're less inclined to do that.
51:26
I think we've got a lot of running room in front of us at
51:28
our existing sites in the US that have really low power
51:31
costs. And now that we're into this
51:33
next halving, you know, this game is now all about power
51:36
costs. You.
51:37
If you have good power, you're going to make a lot of money and
51:40
you're going to stack a lot of coins.
51:41
If you don't have good power, it doesn't matter if you can grow
51:44
to 50 XA hash because you're never going to make money on
51:47
your mining operation. And I think I want to come back
51:50
to the news because like Michael Saylor's mousetrap is amazing,
51:54
but it's very different than Bitcoin mining, right?
51:56
Because if you think about what he's doing, micro strategies is
52:00
borrowing in Fiat at a 0 cost essentially.
52:04
And they're turning around and buying Bitcoin and they get to
52:07
go for a ride on Bitcoin. That's an amazing strategy,
52:10
right? Our strategy is a miner is I can
52:13
mine it because of my power cost and my economies of scale at
52:18
40,000 today and I'm it's on the screen at 67.
52:22
So I'm mining it or 68 now, but I'm mining it for almost half
52:27
the price that it's on the screen.
52:29
If you can't mine it for cheaper than it's on the screen, then I
52:33
don't really think you have any any long term business being in
52:37
business like you have to be profitable.
52:39
And so I think what you're going to see here in the next few
52:43
months when a lot of the public companies file their second
52:46
quarter results is a lot of the big peers don't have good power
52:51
and are not mining profitably. And so that's a bummer because
52:55
as I think as shareholders, you're better off just buying
52:58
the ETF if you're losing money on every Bitcoin in your mind.
53:03
Absolutely. And I and I want to further
53:05
explore that, you know, and and get into the intricacies of
53:09
that. Cuz I'm really interested.
53:10
I'm really interested, especially cuz we, I think who
53:14
was. We don't have a lot of public
53:17
mining execs on the show very often, right?
53:21
We're good friends with Ben Gagnon from from Bit Farms.
53:25
We had the Chief Technology Officer from Bit Deer.
53:28
So very excited to further explore this topic with you
53:31
Patrick. But before we get to the culture
53:34
and dive dive deeper into this topic, we got to run some ads
53:39
because we have to pay the bills around here.
53:41
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54:01
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54:04
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54:23
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54:26
saying, Nikko, welcome to Montreal.
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literally show you the bitcoiners that are near you so
54:34
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54:35
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reach me directly. You could send me a DM on the
54:40
Orange Pill app and I will get back to you.
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So download the orange fill out today, scan the QR code or check
54:46
the link in the video description.
54:48
All right, everybody, let's get to the culture so we can talk
54:50
more about Terra Wolf, the daily culture.
55:02
All right, everybody. I want to give a shout out to
55:04
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sell mining equipment. Anyways, I do want to get back
55:46
to Patrick and we are having this very, very interesting
55:50
conversation. I didn't want to interrupt it,
55:52
but I had to because it was just going to lead down another
55:54
rabbit hole. So Patrick, I have so many
55:56
questions and 1st question is you you buried so many leads in
56:01
what you were saying, but specifically about how and this
56:05
is something by the way that is just, it's just, it's just it's
56:08
just Bitcoin, right? Only the most efficient miners
56:11
survive, right? Specifically after the halving,
56:15
right? Isn't that crazy, Patrick?
56:16
Especially from someone of your background.
56:18
You said you had a Wall Street background, that there is this
56:21
commodity, that it is literally set in stone that have after
56:25
every four years, the amount of you know, the amount that you're
56:29
mining is literally get cut. It gets cut in half.
56:32
And my question to you is what type of person would want to get
56:36
involved in that type of in that type of industry because it
56:40
sounds so cutthroat, it sounds so brutal, you know, so what's
56:44
your take on that? And I know you're gonna
56:45
appreciate that question, especially with that Wall Street
56:48
background. No, look, I love it.
56:49
Look, I mean, I'm, you know, Wall Street background, but
56:52
orange pills like everyone else. But look, I think this business
56:57
I think is really misunderstood on a public scale basis, right,
57:02
It is. I've been a commodity investor
57:04
in my whole career. So energy, power, utilities, oil
57:08
and gas, coal mining, copper, you know master limited
57:12
partnerships, pipelines, LNGI mean everything.
57:15
And so to me it's the simplest commodity business ever.
57:21
Literally there are we have four costs but most miners have
57:25
three. It's power, which is by far your
57:28
biggest cost, right and is a function of economies of scale
57:32
and then or excuse me a function of power price.
57:34
And then the other three costs that we have are function of
57:37
economies of scale, in other words how many XS you have,
57:39
right. And that's SGNA which is just
57:41
what it costs us to run the public company operating costs
57:45
which are our site level people. And then we have debt that we're
57:48
rapidly paying down. So we do have interest expense,
57:50
but literally think about it, it's just four costs and three
57:54
for most miners that don't have debt.
57:56
And the number one cost is power.
57:59
So if you have low power price, you're good.
58:03
If you don't have low power price, you're not good.
58:06
It's just that simple. And the the crazy thing about
58:09
power right is you can't change it.
58:12
You either have are located in a good area where there's an
58:15
abundance of excess power, so you have a low power price or
58:19
you have a power price contract like we do, like Riot does like
58:24
some others in the space do and that affords you really low cost
58:29
power. And so, yeah, I think it's it's
58:32
one of those businesses where it is a very simple commodity
58:36
business. When I pitch it to insurance
58:38
providers for Terra Wolf Investors, it's it is like any
58:42
other commodity business I've ever analyzed.
58:44
And I think what sort of distinguishes us from other
58:48
miners is during my institutional investing career,
58:54
you know every single public company gives guidance, right.
58:58
So I'll give you like Valero, one of the largest refiners in
59:01
the US They tell you what their capacity is expected to be for
59:04
the year and they tell you what their costs are going to be and
59:08
they put that all on a piece of paper right in their
59:10
presentation just like we do. If you pull up our presentation
59:13
and go, I think it's page 1413 or 14, you know we actually lay
59:18
out for you every right there, every single cost in the
59:23
company. So that was actual in the first
59:25
quarter in the left column estimated for the second quarter
59:29
and then estimated for the second-half.
59:31
And then you can get full year and we do it for you in dollars,
59:35
we do it for you in dollars per BTC and then we do it for you in
59:38
hash cost to make it as simple as possible so that anybody can
59:43
go look and pull up, OK. Hash price today is 50.
59:46
Terra Wolf you know is in the second quarter here estimated at
59:49
39. So they should be making 11
59:52
bucks on every single one of their, you know, Petta Hash
59:55
today, right. So that type of disclosure is to
1:00:00
me what is required from all of the public companies because
1:00:04
it's exactly what every single oil and gas refining, copper
1:00:08
company, any legitimized commodity business that's public
1:00:12
provides this level of guidance. And so I think until all of our
1:00:16
peers do that, it's really difficult for institutional
1:00:20
investors to look at the space and figure out who's making
1:00:22
money and who isn't. Now I loved, Opti said earlier
1:00:26
on in the session. I love.
1:00:27
This is one of my favorite quotes, I, he said the numbers
1:00:30
don't lie. I like to say the numbies don't
1:00:32
lie. But yeah, I mean you're going to
1:00:34
get second quarter results from a lot of of our peers and
1:00:38
they're going to show that their free cash flow negative, which
1:00:40
means their cost of mine a Bitcoin is you know, 7075
1:00:44
thousand post halving with about 45 to 50,000 of that being
1:00:50
power, Right. If you go back to that page
1:00:52
where I showed you, you know, only a small portion of.
1:00:57
Yeah, if you kind of scroll, yeah, So you can see here like
1:01:00
in the second quarter for us, our power is going to cost
1:01:04
around 15.7 million total, but that's 22,700 BTC per deck.
1:01:11
That is because we, like I said last year we realized 3.2 cent
1:01:16
power this year in these numbers, we're projecting 3 1/2
1:01:20
cents, right. So if you, if you're going to
1:01:24
realize six cents or six to seven cents, which I know some
1:01:27
of our bigger public peers are that first number right there.
1:01:30
And you when you look in that second quarter, it's going to be
1:01:32
like 45 to 50,000 because of the havoc.
1:01:36
So yeah, the one funky thing, right, about our business versus
1:01:39
other commodity businesses, other commodity businesses,
1:01:42
right, will have times where their margins get crunched, but
1:01:46
that's usually when there's an economic crisis, right, like a
1:01:48
recession or or otherwise. And so in Bitcoin mining, we
1:01:53
have this natural kind of recession, if you will, every
1:01:56
four years as a commodity business, which is peculiar, but
1:01:59
but that's why, you know, I get asked all the time, where do you
1:02:02
think Bitcoin is going? Where do you think network cast
1:02:04
rate is going? I don't know.
1:02:05
I think it's going higher for sure.
1:02:08
But I focus on what I can control and what I can control
1:02:12
at Terra Wolf is my cost, which is getting my cost as low as
1:02:16
possible by minimizing my power cost, minimizing my SG and A,
1:02:20
which also is how much executives get paid, right.
1:02:23
So we minimize that by fact that we founded the company and owned
1:02:27
40% of the equity of the company already.
1:02:29
So you won't see any like NBA style contracts of management
1:02:35
equity comp in our numbers. Yeah, we get paid, we get paid a
1:02:38
reasonable salary, but it's not 10s of millions of dollars like
1:02:42
a lot of our peers do. So, yeah, I think that that's, I
1:02:45
don't know that I'll pause there and I'm sure there's some
1:02:48
questions, but that's kind of how I think about it.
1:02:50
Absolutely. And I just I have some some you
1:02:53
know, I think it's very, very straightforward question Patrick
1:02:55
for you is right. So you know this is a, this is a
1:02:58
bitcoiner audience. I'm sure that I'm, I'm positive
1:03:01
actually that there's people in the audience that not only own
1:03:05
Bitcoin in self custody, but they have exposure to the likes
1:03:09
of MicroStrategy, the likes of you know, some of the ETFs for
1:03:12
whatever reason and of course Bitcoin miners as well.
1:03:16
Now my my question to you as Patrick is why should someone
1:03:20
you know buy Terra Wolf stock versus buying spot Bitcoin?
1:03:25
Yeah, it's a great question. So simple answer, when you're
1:03:30
long Terra Wolf, you're long. A couple different options,
1:03:34
right? One is I'm mining it at 40,000
1:03:37
and it's on the screens at 68. So I'm, I'm making 28,000 a
1:03:42
profit on every Bitcoin I mine today.
1:03:44
And today I'm mining, you know, somewhere between 6:00 and 6 1/2
1:03:47
Bitcoin. So that's number one.
1:03:49
Number two, you own an ETF. You don't get exposure to
1:03:52
transaction fees. You own a Bitcoin miner, you do
1:03:56
#3. We are very long infrastructure,
1:04:00
and if you are not long infrastructure, now is a Bitcoin
1:04:04
miner. You got a big problem because
1:04:06
now you're competing with Google, Meta, Amazon, IBM,
1:04:11
Microsoft. And their cost of capital is
1:04:14
very different than the cost of capital for a Bitcoin miner.
1:04:17
And there's an arms race right now for power capacity and
1:04:21
infrastructure capacity for high power compute for all those
1:04:25
companies. So those, that's the simple
1:04:27
answer. One, I can mine it cheaper than
1:04:30
you're seeing it on the screen. I take that profit right now and
1:04:33
I'm paying down debt. Once I'm debt free, I'll have
1:04:36
the ability to stack Bitcoin on my balance sheet and we may
1:04:40
pursue that. But one, I mine it cheaper than
1:04:43
when you get it on the screen. Two, I get exposure to
1:04:45
transaction fees, right? And I've got the added benefit
1:04:48
of I'm helping secure the Bitcoin network.
1:04:50
And three, I am very long infrastructure that you know we
1:04:54
may use some of that infrastructure which that
1:04:57
business gets a 20 to 25 times EBITDA multiple versus Bitcoin
1:05:02
miners tend to get 6 to 12 times EBITDA.
1:05:06
So as a management team that has a lot of the equity of the
1:05:08
company already, we may use some of that infrastructure to enter
1:05:12
into that high power compute business.
1:05:14
But if you are Bitcoin miner and you don't own your own
1:05:17
infrastructure right now that you can expand into, you got a
1:05:20
problem because you now got to compete with a bunch of folks
1:05:23
that have much lower cost capital.
1:05:25
Absolutely. Another question for you also
1:05:28
Patrick is I've noticed the general trend with with all the
1:05:31
public miners including Terawolf which is they they all kind of
1:05:35
had this blow off tough in the last bull market of 2021 and
1:05:39
they've seemed to have come down Now.
1:05:41
I know, I know Tara Wolf has performed extremely well.
1:05:43
I believe you guys are up 25 to 28% in the last year or so and
1:05:48
year to date I believe or since the beginning of the year.
1:05:51
So it seems like you guys are making a recovery in terms of
1:05:53
the price of your stock. What do you anticipate?
1:05:55
I don't know if you, I don't know what the legalities of of
1:05:58
this are from a public company sense, but you know we are
1:06:02
expecting the this bull run to continue.
1:06:05
You know what? What can your investors, you
1:06:08
know, expect if you know Bitcoin continues this bull run?
1:06:14
Yeah. Look, for us it's and I'll
1:06:16
answer that two ways, but look for us, like I said, we have a
1:06:20
really low power cost. We took on some debt to get the
1:06:23
company public in 2021. And so we've been laser focused
1:06:29
on maximizing profitability to pay down that debt.
1:06:32
I think we're going to get through that debt this year.
1:06:36
We'll pay it off and like I said that will then free us up.
1:06:39
So if we want to, we can start stacking Bitcoin on our balance
1:06:43
sheet and given our low cost of capital, I think we'll be able
1:06:46
to do a lot of that. But I also think you know we
1:06:49
may, like I mentioned to you, I grew up in the the energy power
1:06:53
commodity patch and I've seen kind of generational wealth
1:06:56
creation through structures like the master limited partnership
1:07:00
structure where you know they pay big dividends.
1:07:03
And so I would love to be one of the first Bitcoin miners to pay
1:07:08
a dividend in, say, Bitcoin, but it's not all that different from
1:07:11
paying a dividend in cash. But you know, instead of giving
1:07:15
me a brokerage account, you give me your Bitcoin wallet.
1:07:17
So I think there's a lot of interesting things to do like
1:07:20
along that front. So I think you'll see us kind of
1:07:23
blaze that, that trail for Bitcoin miners once we pay off
1:07:28
our debt this year. But look, I think with regard to
1:07:30
our, our stock price, you know, I would say it's no secret, you
1:07:34
know, my friend and colleague and CEO, Paul Prager has been
1:07:37
out there on a lot of public channels, you know, kind of
1:07:41
lamenting our, our performance. But I would just say, you know,
1:07:45
I just had a big slug of stock vest in the last month.
1:07:51
And if you go look at my Form 4, you know, I have the option to
1:07:54
net settle, meaning the company retains shares to pay my tax
1:07:57
bill or I can write a personal check and that was when the
1:08:01
stock was around 2 bucks. And, you know, I wrote a
1:08:04
$230,000 check and that's the second check I've written.
1:08:09
You know, I've written a couple of 100,000 other checks here.
1:08:13
So I'm probably up to around 500,000 of, you know, just
1:08:15
personal checks I've been writing when the stock was kind
1:08:18
of in the, you know, dollar 50 to $2.00 range because I don't
1:08:22
want to sell stock there. So yeah, I I, I'm fully aligned
1:08:26
with you. I think again, I think all the
1:08:28
Bitcoin miners are positioned for or at least.
1:08:31
And and there's a chart I think in in our slide deck, it gets
1:08:35
page 11 that you guys had up earlier.
1:08:37
But shows EBITDA per EXA hash. And this to me is super critical
1:08:43
as our business matures, right. You got to focus on who is
1:08:47
actually making money on their ex hash.
1:08:49
So not just I get growing Exa hash is important, right,
1:08:53
Because it's an influence on how many BTC you can stack.
1:08:57
But you could grow to 50 or 100 X hash if you're not making any
1:09:00
money. That means the only way you're
1:09:03
staying afloat is by issuing a ton of equity.
1:09:06
And so again that's where I think it's a little deceiving to
1:09:09
shareholders like we are making a lot of money clean as you can
1:09:13
see in this top chart clean spark best in class making a lot
1:09:17
of money, right. So that's you know we're second
1:09:20
there, core is right behind us. Then cipher, I mean to me you
1:09:24
know you you want to be invested in companies that are using
1:09:28
renewable 0 carbon energy because I think that is what is
1:09:32
the long dated strategy here in the US that is you know aligned
1:09:36
with our political incentives and then you want to be in
1:09:40
companies that are actually making money because that's
1:09:42
going to limit the dilution over time.
1:09:44
If not, if you're getting, you know, really diluted into
1:09:47
oblivion, then I think you should probably just own an ETF
1:09:50
because you can't get diluted owning an ETF.
1:09:53
But you're not going to get that exposure that I mentioned, the
1:09:55
transaction fees and infrastructure.
1:09:58
So why do you believe that you know the because just compared
1:10:02
and you know some some minors perform, some minors didn't
1:10:05
perform especially with this recent rally, none I believe
1:10:08
have reached the all time high of the, you know the previous
1:10:12
bull market which kind of makes sense obviously.
1:10:14
But you know why do you believe some minors performed and why do
1:10:18
you believe some minors didn't perform?
1:10:19
Is this just a case of the market hasn't you know, you know
1:10:23
found your guys's value proposition?
1:10:25
Do you believe it's the debt that you guys incurred?
1:10:28
What's your thesis behind that? Sure.
1:10:30
Yeah. No, I think I mean this page to
1:10:32
me says it right. I mean you look the best
1:10:34
performing minor year to date clean spark by by a long stretch
1:10:38
and that's because they successfully grew extra hash
1:10:41
with some dilution. But they are, they are highly
1:10:44
profitable. Those are the two that's the two
1:10:47
most winning pieces, right, got to be highly profitable and you
1:10:50
got to grow. So I think if you can accomplish
1:10:53
that and by the way, I think Iris just announced a similar
1:10:56
strategy. I think Iris will be for the
1:10:58
next clean spark right over the next few months here because
1:11:03
they have a very profitable enterprise infrastructure first
1:11:06
folks and they're focused on renewable power.
1:11:09
That is a winning combination just like Terra Wolf.
1:11:12
So I think we will be right behind them.
1:11:14
I think we got to get through our debt which you know a lot of
1:11:17
the retail community view as a negative.
1:11:20
I think candidly as management we view that as well.
1:11:23
That being said, I think in this next cycle you will see
1:11:27
corporate level debt come into play for a lot of minors because
1:11:30
it's a good way to finance yourself without dilution.
1:11:33
So it's ironic that we're kind of nearing the end of paying
1:11:37
down our debt when I think it actually may come back into into
1:11:40
vogue gear. But you know that is what it is.
1:11:42
But yeah, I think once we get through that deck and we start
1:11:45
stacking BTC on balance sheet, I think our story changes
1:11:49
significantly And we have like I said, I mean if we grow into our
1:11:54
infrastructure in 2025, you know we'll be close to 30 XA hash
1:11:58
exiting 2025. And I think as you kind of look
1:12:01
to where the bigger players are, you know I think it's table
1:12:04
stakes now you got to be sort of north of 20 XA hash and again
1:12:09
key, key, key you have got to have low power, it does not
1:12:13
matter what you're at. And let me just, I'll be even
1:12:15
more specific on that, but like I I produced 32 million of
1:12:19
EBITDA in the first quarter like real Adjusted EBITDA, right.
1:12:24
Riot who I really like. I think they have a great
1:12:26
operation but they're close to 50% larger than me.
1:12:31
You know they produced 11 of EBITDA and so you know again you
1:12:35
got to, I think you have to look at the nuances of each business
1:12:40
to try to figure out OK, who's going to be able to grow, who's
1:12:44
got low power, but who's actually profitable because that
1:12:47
really matters. That matters, right?
1:12:52
100%. You know, I think you know being
1:12:55
a bitcoiner, you know a couple cycles in this industry, right?
1:12:59
You know, you learn things about the having and just the
1:13:02
volatility, right? And the only the most efficient
1:13:05
miners survive. So Patrick, we are getting, you
1:13:09
know, close to the top of the hour and I do want to be
1:13:10
respectful for your time. So I do have two more questions
1:13:13
for you. First question, actually it came
1:13:16
from someone in the audience Andrew Williams asked, I don't
1:13:19
know if you could reveal this information, but he asked what
1:13:22
mining pools does Terra Wolf use?
1:13:24
Do they have any preference and why?
1:13:27
Yeah, great question. So we use Foundry.
1:13:31
They've been, you know, we love them.
1:13:34
I think they're if not the first largest pool, the second largest
1:13:38
pool US based. We've got a great relationship
1:13:43
with them and really happy with the performance.
1:13:48
So yeah, that's that's who we use.
1:13:50
I do think Andrew as the industry matures and
1:13:55
particularly call it the top like 5 or 10 miners get a lot
1:13:59
bigger. I think over time we probably
1:14:02
will go and and have our own pool or you know potentially
1:14:08
join another miner's pool. I think that makes logical sense
1:14:11
over time. But right now you know super
1:14:14
happy with Foundry and think really highly of their team and
1:14:18
and the product they deliver. Absolutely.
1:14:20
And last question for you, Patrick, is if you had any last
1:14:24
words to our audience right now there's currently 1189 people
1:14:28
watching live between YouTube and X and about another 60 or so
1:14:32
watching on Rumble. What would that message be I.
1:14:36
Think it'd just be thanks for your support for the community.
1:14:39
It's a tight, tight knit community.
1:14:41
Keep keep spreading the message and you know, take a look at
1:14:44
Terra Wolf. We love your support.
1:14:46
We think we're doing the right thing.
1:14:47
I think you know we want to make money, we want to make stack
1:14:50
Bitcoin but it's also I think really important to do the right
1:14:54
thing in in Bitcoin and in the Bitcoin community.
1:14:57
And we feel like with our zero carbon focus and ESG focus that
1:15:00
we're we're we're leading in that area and also with
1:15:03
disclosure. So really appreciate you guys
1:15:05
having me on and and thank you very much for your time and the
1:15:08
questions. Well, thank you so much for.
1:15:10
Coming back, yeah, that was great.
1:15:11
And I just want to, you know, reiterate this aspect and I
1:15:15
specifically read this quote from Jack Dorsey because I think
1:15:19
it really applies here as it relates to Bitcoin.
1:15:22
It's something that we've mentioned many, many times in
1:15:25
regards to the show. And I'm just going to read
1:15:28
Dorsey's quote because I think it says it all.
1:15:30
The most amazing thing about Bitcoin, apart from it, from the
1:15:33
founding story, is anyone who works on it or gets paid in it
1:15:37
or buys it for themselves. Everyone who, everyone who puts
1:15:40
any effort into making it better is making the entire ecosystem
1:15:44
better, which makes the price goes up.
1:15:47
And that includes Bitcoin miners, right?
1:15:50
This is the beauty of an aligned incentive structure model that
1:15:53
you know, whether it's just, you know, a Bitcoin show on YouTube,
1:15:56
Rumble and X or a publicly traded Bitcoin mining company.
1:16:00
Our ethos, our our our, our incentive structures are aligned
1:16:04
because of Bitcoin and that's very foreign.
1:16:06
That's a very foreign concept, you know.
1:16:09
But I I hope, I hope people, people understand that.
1:16:12
Anyways, guys, if you want to, if you want to buy the Terra
1:16:15
Wolf stock, the ticker is WULF. You can find it on your broker
1:16:21
of choice. I do want to thank, I want, I
1:16:23
want to thank Patrick Flurry for joining us on the show today.
1:16:26
Thank you so much, Patrick. Really appreciate it.
1:16:28
Where can people find you, If they or where can people find
1:16:31
Terra Wolf or get the latest updates?
1:16:33
Where where would you send them? Yeah, if you can follow us on
1:16:36
Twitter at Terra Wolf, that'd be sweet.
1:16:38
And then if anybody has any direct questions for me, always
1:16:42
feel free to e-mail me. I'll get back to you as soon as
1:16:44
I possibly can, but my e-mail is flurry@terrawolf.com.
1:16:48
It's F as in Frank LEURY at terrawolf.com.
1:16:52
And yeah, reach out with any questions.
1:16:54
Like I said, I'll get back to you as soon as I can, but really
1:16:57
appreciate your supports for the community and getting a positive
1:17:00
message out. Well, thank you Patrick for
1:17:02
joining us on Simply Bitcoin. Really appreciate your time.
1:17:05
Thanks guys. All right guys, that was our
1:17:07
show. Like I said, I apologize.
1:17:09
My my sound board got absolutely crushed while traveling coming
1:17:14
back from Canada. But I already ordered a
1:17:16
replacement. So we should have the the we
1:17:20
should have the audio back up to par by Tuesday or Wednesday.
1:17:24
We'll also have a meme review. I see you guys in the audience
1:17:26
talking about this. We'll have their meme review
1:17:29
back on Friday. And guys, if you enjoyed the
1:17:31
show, smash the like button so you could help us with the
1:17:34
algos, of course. And we'll be back tomorrow for a
1:17:37
brand new episode of Simply Bitcoin Live.
1:17:42
It was brought to you by bitcoinwell.com on a mission to
1:17:46
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