Latest / Paws Between Us - Pet Stories, Welfare and Building A Bond / Science Backed Dog Training: Meet Sabrina of The Floppy Ear Club

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Science Backed Dog Training: Meet Sabrina of The Floppy Ear Club · Paws Between Us - Pet Stories, Welfare and Building A Bond

0:00
Welcome to the Paws Between Us podcast, co-hosted by best friends Natalie
0:04
and Sasha. We're lifelong animal lovers and proud pet parents. Between us,
0:08
we share our lives with cats Weaver and Murray and
0:12
Betty the pug. In each episode, we'll dive into the
0:16
joys and challenges of living with our furry companions, sharing honest stories,
0:19
laughter, and sometimes a few tears. We'll also bring in special guests
0:23
to offer expert-backed tips and proven practices for keeping your pets
0:27
happy, healthy, and loved. Please note, some episodes may touch on sensitive
0:31
topics or contain strong language. Listener discretion is advised.
0:36
Thank you for joining us this week. Hey,
0:39
how you doing? Hello. Yeah, good, good. And hello to
0:43
all our listeners. Thank you for downloading this episode and giving it
0:46
a whirl. Thank you for joining us. Yeah. Thanks for getting on
0:50
board and following our antics, top tips,
0:53
and information and news. And this week we have
0:57
a special guest, Sabrina from the Floppier Club, who's going
1:01
to be talking to us about the kind, effective, and science-backed
1:06
dog training methods that she uses with the dogs that she
1:10
supports and also their owners. Can't wait. So yeah, really looking
1:14
forward to having a chat with Sabrina. I've attended some of
1:17
her events before where we've done a walk and
1:22
a kind of Q&A session, an opportunity to learn
1:25
a bit more about her services and her approaches and meet other dog owners
1:30
and other doggies, of course, which is wonderful. So I enjoyed
1:33
that so much when I took Betty along to an event recently that
1:37
I asked her to come on the podcast today and just have a chat to
1:41
us. Firstly, if you know you have a dog and you
1:44
need a little bit of a helping paw, um, with their training and
1:48
development, hopefully this is something that you'll find useful,
1:51
but also if you are thinking about being a dog trainer.
1:56
You can hear a bit about Sabrina's story and how she
2:00
has, yeah, well, how she's become a dog
2:04
trainer and the sort of training that she herself has been involved in.
2:09
So, yeah, it'd be really nice. And it'd be good to understand a little bit
2:13
more between her work as a dog trainer and maybe sort of
2:17
the dog behaviourist approach. So it'd be good to sort of distinguish that with her
2:20
a little bit. Yeah, 'cause we have talked to a dog behaviourist before,
2:24
so yeah, nice to compare and contrast the 2 approaches.
2:29
Hmm. Yeah. So before we join Sabrina, how have you
2:32
been? What have you been up to, Nat? Eh, not a great deal.
2:35
Cats are kind of ticking along alright. Happy and healthy, no more problems.
2:40
We've had some loose poos, so we're just testing a few things.
2:43
I think I always talk about this, that Ragdolls seem to have upset sensitive
2:48
tummies, although maybe it's just these 2, I don't know. But so we've just been
2:51
trying a few different techniques with their food and what seems to
2:55
be currently working is actually giving them more
2:59
wet than their biscuits. So, there's something obviously that
3:03
they're not liking in the biscuits. So, we're just trying to work out whether it's
3:06
the quantity or whether it's the biscuit type itself, but it's a well-known
3:10
brand, so trustworthy brand and a science-based product.
3:14
So, potentially should be good and it's developed particularly for that
3:18
breed, but we are having, we are having issues with it
3:21
a little bit. Not, they're not really bad, but they, we are having little noticeable
3:24
problems. So, we're just testing a few things out there, but I've
3:28
also tried a new cat litter recently, a tofu-based one.
3:32
Sounds different. And it's pretty good. I normally use wood
3:36
chip, and what I'm finding with the wood chip, always use wood chip ever since
3:40
I've had an indoor cat, which has been, I don't know, 20 years or something,
3:43
maybe longer. It tracks across the house. You end up finding bits
3:47
of wood, like, in different places, in random places across the house, and you think,
3:49
oh my God. This one doesn't seem to be tracking as far, which is great.
3:53
It's staying within the little area we've got for the cat litter.
3:57
And it also seems to be lasting quite a while because it clumps, whereas the
4:01
wood chip doesn't clump. So it's more expensive, but I think overall it
4:05
may work out either the same price or hopefully a bit cheaper. So we're
4:09
just gonna, we're gonna, we're just testing that out. Cats seem to like it,
4:11
so they're sort of adjusting to it. 'Cause that's the main, the main problem
4:15
really is whether they actually go in it because they can be fussy. So,
4:18
you know, they're the customer, the clientele, and they're,
4:22
they're seem to be giving it 5 stars. So, so far so good. Oh,
4:25
that's good. Yeah. I guess that you've got to rely on their feedback.
4:29
Yes. But what happens if they don't want to use it though?
4:33
What do they do? Do they poo? They'll just use it. So I've
4:36
got 2 litter trays at the moment. So, you know, you always have 1 tray
4:40
per cat at the least. You're supposed to have plus 1, but we had plus
4:44
1 and they never used it. So 2 is enough for our 2. So one's
4:48
got wood chip and one's got the new stuff in, so they can pick and
4:50
choose. They were only doing wees in it to start with, and now they're doing
4:53
a few poos in it, so I know that they're adapting to it.
4:57
But I've just— so, but the thing with the cat as well before,
5:00
they're so flipping fussy. And it's, I think this has come across in some
5:04
of my other discussions. I needed to get a wee sample from Weaver once,
5:07
and it was an absolute nightmare because you get these wee packs, which are
5:11
brilliant really. They're designed so that they don't absorb the wee, but they collect it.
5:15
So you'd replace all of your litter with this wee special
5:18
kind of litter, I suppose. It's usually just like tiny crystals.
5:22
And then they wee in it, and then you can suck it up with a
5:24
little syringe, take it to the vets, and they'll do the sample.
5:27
Weaver would not wee in it because it didn't look like her cat litter.
5:31
I was like, oh my God. So she kept like, she a couple of times
5:35
wee'd on the floor or didn't go all day. So I was like,
5:38
oh my God. So I had to try a few different types of collecting
5:42
litter. We tried a couple, she wouldn't,
5:45
she wouldn't use it. I tried more, she didn't use it. And that was such
5:48
a waste. So we've had to go careful with this new litter to
5:51
see whether she'll actually use it at all. Well, both of them will use it
5:54
at all. So they are using it. So that's a good step. So we're moving
5:56
in the right direction, but I'm, I might not change over completely. I'm just gonna
6:00
see how it goes, but cats are fussy and they will not use
6:03
the litter if they don't like the flavour. If they don't
6:07
like the texture, the smell, if it doesn't feel familiar,
6:11
then they won't use it. No good. So they're a little bit like that.
6:13
I couldn't imagine trying to get a wee sample from a cat. It's hard enough
6:15
getting one from Betty. How do you do it with Betty? Well, you have
6:19
a little device that the vet gives you and you sort of have to sort
6:22
of put it under. Oh, as soon as they start? Yeah. Okay.
6:26
The problem is, is before she had problems with her back leg,
6:29
she would cock her leg up a tree and it was
6:33
a lot easier to get it. Now she squats down, she's quite low,
6:36
bless her. And so you can't really get it underneath. No.
6:40
Oh no. I can't believe we're talking about this. The joys is,
6:43
this is where you're kind of just happy to pick up poo because it's very,
6:47
very simple. Collecting wee samples is,
6:51
yeah, it's like an art form in itself. Well,
6:54
so this is where I'd like to do more work with vets or with product
6:58
development, because, so we had a, we had a, an inkling
7:02
something wasn't right with Weaver, and we, we were struggling to get a sample.
7:05
It went on for ages, but we weren't sure whether it was a problem or
7:08
not. There was a, a type of litter that would change colour on
7:12
the pH. Oh. So you could see whether it indicated a
7:15
problem. And it was amazing. And it did indicate a very slight
7:19
problem. And I was like, this is all I would want to give to a
7:22
vet, like show them evidence and go, look, we've got a treatment option for a
7:25
urinary infection. Option is antibiotics. And they obviously don't want to give out antibiotics here,
7:29
there, and everywhere. But getting the wee sample is also hard and you can't
7:33
get it. So I was kind of, we were stuck in this like situation of
7:36
like, well, I can see there may be an issue. I can't get a wee
7:39
sample, but you won't accept anything else. We were
7:43
like in this sort of like difficult position of like, what do we do?
7:45
How do we do it? Luckily for us, well, not luckily at all,
7:49
but Weaver had to have a tooth out. And I said, well, while she's under,
7:52
Can you get a wee sample? They did, and she did have a urinary tract
7:56
infection and we got medicine for it. But this is where I'm like,
7:59
well, we need, I need a different type of collecting mechanism
8:03
because cats can be so fussy and make it really difficult.
8:07
Yeah, it's not easy at all. And I don't even know how
8:10
they'd collect a sample whilst under anaesthetic. I think they withdraw
8:13
it from the bladder. Do they? Wow.
8:17
Okay. Which is good, it's clever, but it's only when they're under obviously, 'cause it's
8:20
awful otherwise to do it that way. Yeah. But you've reminded me actually of some
8:24
of the frustrations I've had where Betty's gone into the vets for an op and
8:28
she's got to have an empty bladder and you, she does the morning wee-wees and
8:31
you take them in and she's just like, no, she's still got a full bladder.
8:34
Can you take her round the block again? And Betty can be really fussy about
8:37
where she wees. So, 'cause I just remember once spending about
8:41
40 minutes wandering around near the vets trying to
8:45
get her to do a pee. Or to do a few more and she just
8:48
wouldn't. Yeah. Eventually she did. You're like, yes.
8:51
But, oh, Betty has her routine for peeing,
8:55
so she likes to pee in certain places. So you take her somewhere new,
8:59
like the streets surrounding our vets, and it's like, where's this? She just won't
9:03
do it. I'm not gonna go for a wee. So probably also maybe a bit
9:05
nervous or maybe like anticipating something. Yeah,
9:09
maybe. And then holding on. Maybe she knew. Yeah, she knew. 'Cause we'd
9:12
been into the vets once, she perhaps thought, What are we doing here? Yeah.
9:16
I don't like this. There's so much psychology, I think, behind the
9:20
animals and kind of like the situation they're in that I think that
9:23
needs to be played into how health treatment comes through,
9:27
I think. And just, you can't just treat an animal based on the
9:31
biology. You've gotta include the psychology around it too.
9:35
And that's probably a good segue actually into our chat with Sabrina today,
9:39
'cause she's gonna be talking to us about dog training and
9:43
thinking about some of those things, like understanding where the dog's
9:47
coming from, understanding where the owner's coming from, and thinking about those 2 things
9:51
and how you can support the dog based on their specific needs. So shall
9:55
we bring her into the call? Let's invite her
9:58
in.
10:06
Welcome to the Paws Between Us podcast, co-hosted by best friends Natalie
10:11
and Sasha. We're lifelong animal lovers and proud pet parents.
10:15
Between us, we share our lives with cats Weaver and Murray
10:19
and Betty the pug. In each episode, we'll dive into
10:23
the joys and challenges of living with our furry companions, sharing honest stories, laughter,
10:26
and sometimes a few tears. We'll also bring in special guests
10:30
to offer expert-backed tips and proven practices for keeping your pets
10:34
happy, healthy, and loved. Please note, some episodes may touch on sensitive topics or
10:39
contain strong language. Listener discretion is advised.
10:42
Thank you for joining us this week.
10:45
Hey, how you doing? Hello. Yeah, good,
10:49
good. And hello to all our listeners. Thank you for downloading this episode
10:52
and giving it a whirl. Thank you for joining us. Yeah.
10:56
Thanks for getting on board and following our antics, top tips,
11:00
and information and news. And this week we have
11:04
a special guest, Sabrina from the Floppier Club, who's going to
11:08
be talking to us about the kind, effective, and science-backed backed
11:13
dog training methods that she uses with the dogs that
11:16
she supports and also their owners. Can't wait. So yeah,
11:20
really looking forward to having a chat with Sabrina. I've attended some
11:24
of her events before where we've done a walk
11:28
and a kind of Q&A session, an opportunity to
11:32
learn a bit more about her services and her approaches and meet other dog owners
11:36
and other doggies, of course, which is wonderful. So.
11:40
I enjoyed that so much when I took Betty along to an event recently that
11:44
I asked her to come on the podcast today and just have a chat to
11:47
us. Firstly, if you know you have a dog and you need
11:51
a little bit of a helping paw, um, with their training and development,
11:55
hopefully this is something that you'll find useful. But also if
11:58
you're thinking about being a dog trainer, um,
12:03
you can hear a bit about Sabrina's story and how she
12:07
has, um, Yeah, well, how she's become a dog trainer
12:11
and the sort of training that she herself has been involved in.
12:15
Um, so yeah, and it'd be good to understand a little
12:19
bit more between her work as a dog trainer and maybe
12:23
sort of the dog behaviourist approach. So it'd be good to sort of distinguish that
12:26
with her a little bit. Yeah, 'cause we have talked to a dog behaviourist before,
12:31
so yeah, nice to compare and contrast the 2 approaches.
12:34
Hmm. Yeah. So before we join Sabrina,
12:38
how have you been? What have you been up to, Nat? Eh, not a great
12:41
deal. Cats are kind of ticking along all right. Happy and healthy.
12:46
No more problems. We've had some loose poos, so we're
12:50
just testing a few things. I think I always talk about this. Ragdolls seem to
12:53
have upset, sensitive tummies, although maybe it's just these 2.
12:57
I don't know. But so we've just been trying a few different techniques with their
13:01
food and what seems to be currently working is actually
13:05
giving them more wet than their biscuits. So there's
13:09
something obviously that they're not liking in the biscuits. So we're just trying to work
13:12
out whether it's the quantity or whether it's the biscuit type itself, but it's
13:16
a well-known brand, so trustworthy brand and a science-based
13:20
product. So potentially should be good. And it's developed particularly for that
13:25
breed. But we are having, we are having issues with it a little
13:28
bit. Not, they're not really bad, but they, we are having little noticeable problems.
13:31
So we, Just testing a few things out there, but I've
13:35
also tried a new cat litter recently, a tofu-based one.
13:39
That sounds different. And it's pretty good. I normally use wood
13:43
chip, and what I'm finding with the wood chip, always use wood chip ever since
13:46
I've had an indoor cat, which has been, I don't know, 20 years or something,
13:49
maybe longer. It tracks across the house. You end up finding bits of wood,
13:53
like, in different places, in random places across the house, and you think, oh my
13:57
God. This one doesn't seem to be tracking as far, which is great.
14:01
It's staying within the little area we've got for the cat litter. And it also
14:04
seems to be lasting quite a while because it clumps, whereas the
14:08
wood chip doesn't clump. So, it's more expensive, but I think overall
14:12
it may work out either the same price or hopefully a bit cheaper. So,
14:16
I'm just gonna, we're gonna, we're just testing that out. Cats seem to like it,
14:18
so they're sort of adjusting to it. 'Cause that's the main, the main
14:22
problem really is whether they actually go in it because they can be fussy.
14:25
So, you know, they're the customer, the clientele, and they
14:29
seem to be giving it 5 stars. So, so far so good. Oh, that's good.
14:32
Yeah. I guess that you've gotta rely on their feedback.
14:36
Yes. But what happens if they don't want to use it though?
14:39
What do they do? Do they poo? They'll just use it. So I've got 2
14:43
litter trays at the moment. So, you know, you always have 1 tray per
14:47
cat at the least. You're supposed to have plus 1, but we had
14:50
plus 1 and they never used it. So 2 is enough for our
14:53
2. So one's got wood chip and one's got the new stuff in, so they
14:56
can pick and choose. They were only doing wees in it to start with,
14:59
and now they're doing a few poos in it. So I know that they're adapting
15:03
to it. But I've just said, but the thing with the cat as
15:06
well before, they're so flipping fussy. And it's,
15:10
I think this has come across in some of my other discussions. I needed to
15:12
get a wee sample from Weaver once, and it was an absolute nightmare
15:16
because you get these wee packs, which are brilliant really. They're designed
15:19
so that they don't absorb the wee, but they collect it. So you'd replace all
15:22
of your litter with this wee special kind of litter, I suppose.
15:26
It's usually just like tiny crystals. And then they wee in it and then you
15:30
can suck it up with a little syringe, take it to the vets and they'll
15:33
do the sample. Weaver would not wee in it because it didn't look like her
15:37
cat litter. I was like, oh my God. So she kept like,
15:40
she a couple of times wee'd on the floor or didn't go all day.
15:44
So I was like, oh my God. So I had to try a few different
15:47
types of collecting litter.
15:51
We tried a couple, she wouldn't, she wouldn't use it. I tried more, she didn't
15:54
use it. And that was such a waste. So we've had to go careful with
15:57
this new litter to see whether she'll actually use it at all. Well, both of
16:00
them will use it at all. So they are using it, so that's a good
16:02
step. So we're moving in the right direction, but I might not change over completely.
16:07
I'm just going to see how it goes. But cats are fussy and they will
16:09
not use the litter if they don't like the flavour. If they
16:13
don't like the texture, the smell, if it doesn't feel familiar,
16:17
then they won't use it. So they're a little bit like that. I couldn't imagine
16:20
trying to get a wee sample from a cat. It's hard enough getting one from
16:23
Betty. How do you do it with Betty? Well, you have a little device
16:27
that the vet gives you and you sort of have to sort of put it
16:29
under. Oh, as soon as they start? Yeah. Okay. The problem is,
16:33
is before she had problems with her back leg, she would cock
16:37
her leg up a tree and it was a lot easier to get it.
16:40
Now she squats down, she's quite low, bless her.
16:44
And so you can't really get it underneath. No. Oh no. I can't
16:48
believe we're talking about this. The joys. This is where you're kind of
16:51
just happy to pick up poo because it's very, very simple. Collecting wee
16:56
samples is, yeah, it's like an art form in
17:00
itself. Well, so this is where I'd like to do more
17:03
work with vets or with product development, because,
17:07
so we had a, we had a, an inkling something wasn't right with Weaver,
17:10
and we, we were struggling to get a sample. It went on for ages,
17:13
but we weren't sure whether it was a problem or not. There was a,
17:16
a type of litter that would change colour on the pH.
17:20
Oh. So you could see whether it indicated a problem. And it was amazing.
17:24
And it did indicate a very slight problem. And I was like, this is all
17:27
I would want to give to a vet, like show them evidence and go,
17:30
look, what the treatment option for a urinary infection is. Infection is antibiotics,
17:34
and they obviously don't want to give out antibiotics here, there, and everywhere. But getting
17:37
the wee sample is also hard, and you can't get it.
17:40
So I was kind of— we were stuck in this like situation of like,
17:43
well, I can see there may be an issue, I can't get a wee sample,
17:47
but you won't accept anything else. We were like in this sort of like
17:51
difficult position of like, what do we do? How do we do it? Luckily for
17:54
us— well, not luckily at all— but Weaver had to have a tooth out,
17:57
and I said, well, while she's under Can you get a wee sample?
18:00
They did, and she did have a urinary tract infection and we got medicine for
18:04
it. But this is where I'm like, well, we need, I need a different
18:08
type of collecting mechanism because cats can be so fussy
18:12
and make it really difficult. Yeah, it's not easy at all. And I
18:16
don't even know how they'd collect a sample whilst under anaesthetic. I think
18:20
they withdraw it from the bladder. Do they too? Wow.
18:24
Okay. Which is good, it's clever, but it's only when they're under obviously, 'cause it's
18:27
awful otherwise to do it that way. Yeah. But you've reminded me actually of some
18:32
of the frustrations I've had where Betty's gone into the vets for an op and
18:35
she's got to have an empty bladder and you, she does the morning wee-wees and
18:38
you take them in and she's just like, no, she's still got a full bladder.
18:40
Can you take her round the block again? And Betty can be really fussy about
18:44
where she wees. Yeah. So, 'cause I just remember once spending
18:48
about 40 minutes wandering around near
18:51
the vets trying to get her to do a pee or to do a few
18:54
more and she just wouldn't. Yeah. Eventually. Yes, you did. You're like, yes.
18:58
But, oh, Betty has her routine for peeing,
19:01
so she likes to pee in certain places. So you take her somewhere new,
19:06
like the streets surrounding our vets, and it's like, where's this? She was so good
19:09
at it. I'm not gonna go for a wee. So probably also maybe a bit
19:12
nervous or maybe like anticipating something. Yeah,
19:15
maybe. And then holding on. Maybe she knew. Yeah, she knew.
19:19
'Cause we'd been into the vets once. She perhaps thought, what are we doing here?
19:22
Yeah. I don't like this. There's so much psychology, I think, behind the
19:27
animals and kind of like the situation they're in that I think that needs to
19:31
be played into how health treatment comes through, I think.
19:35
And just, you can't just treat an animal based on the biology. You've gotta include
19:40
the psychology around it too. And that's probably a good
19:43
segue actually into our chat with Sabrina today,
19:46
'cause she's gonna be talking to us about dog training
19:50
and thinking about some of those things, like understanding where the
19:53
dog's coming from, understanding where the owner's coming from, and thinking about those 2
19:57
things and how you can support the dog based on their specific needs. So shall
20:01
we bring her into the call? Let's invite her in.
20:13
So hi everyone. And today I'm really delighted to introduce
20:18
Sabrina from the Floppier Club. I recently joined from Sabrina
20:21
for a dog training session and was so impressed by her force-free,
20:25
science-backed training methods that Nat and I have asked her to come
20:29
on the podcast to tell us more. Also really keen to hear about Sabrina's journey
20:33
to becoming a dog trainer after starting working with dogs in 2021.
20:37
Really pleased to have you on the podcast today, Sabrina. I'm sure
20:41
there are people out there who are thinking about following their dreams to
20:44
work with dogs or just have a dog that might need a bit of help
20:48
and want to hear a little bit from you about, yeah, the journey you've
20:51
been on and just also, It's you sharing your wisdom and expertise with us.
20:55
So welcome. Thank you. No, I'm very happy to be here.
20:58
Thank you so much for asking me to come on. Yeah, indeed. Indeed. How are
21:02
you doing? I am good. I'm surviving the heatwave.
21:06
Yeah. Like we all are. Yeah. Trying to stay cool. I'm sat in front
21:10
of my fan. But yeah, I'm good. Thank you. How are you?
21:13
Yeah. Yeah. Pretty much the same. Yeah. Very mindful that training
21:17
dogs in a heatwave must be a challenge. So, um, yeah, you're doing well.
21:21
We're all trying to keep our fur babies cool, aren't we? We are,
21:25
yeah. And it is, yeah, as well as ourselves.
21:29
But just to get us started then, so tell us a bit about you,
21:33
Sabrina, and the Floppier Club and your
21:36
journey to becoming a dog trainer. What inspired you?
21:40
Yeah, um, well, as a kid,
21:43
I was obviously, I was obsessed with dogs. I, um, was constantly saying
21:47
to my mum, please, can we get a dog? Please, can we get a dog?
21:50
Um, and then we did, and I was like, oh my God, gosh, this is
21:54
the best thing ever. And I was always very interested in behaviour,
21:58
like what made dogs do certain things and
22:02
why they were doing them. And same, same for people really. I've always
22:06
been very interested in psychology as well. So I think that interest
22:10
really was, was a big part of it. But yeah, when I graduated
22:14
from uni, I started working in a doggy daycare and I
22:18
was, I was very happy because I was like, oh my gosh, I'm surrounded by
22:21
dogs every single day. I can't complain. This is the best thing ever.
22:25
And then having worked there for about
22:29
a year, there was quite a few issues that I sort of noticed cropping up,
22:33
thinking about how it was managed and how the
22:37
dogs were managed. And yeah,
22:41
unfortunately we didn't have masses of training when
22:44
we were working there. And, um, it was,
22:48
it was, it was difficult because the, the staff weren't always treated
22:52
very well. The dogs weren't always treated very well. What kind of
22:55
ended up happening was it wasn't, wasn't the best working environment,
22:58
and I just felt awful for the dogs because I thought this is not
23:02
the way we should be managing, um, you know, people's pets
23:05
and like people's, you know, dogs who are part of their family basically. And also
23:09
I, I just felt awful anyway, so I thought I really can't
23:13
work here any longer. There's a lot of flaws within the daycare system, I think,
23:16
and I know there's some really good ones out there, but, um,
23:19
that one particularly, it was, it was difficult. And I think Sorry,
23:24
did you want to say something? Yeah, no, Sabrina, do you think there are people
23:27
out there who absolutely just adore and love dogs but have no education
23:31
or real kind of training behind to support delivering something like
23:35
that? Yeah, I do think that's, that's a massive factor.
23:39
I think, yeah, they don't know how to give the training and they don't know
23:43
how to manage that sort of facility. And then the second thing is, unfortunately,
23:46
I think there are places which do care more a bit about the money.
23:50
Than the dogs. So it becomes a bit of a money-making thing. And I think
23:53
that, um, that is a real shame because it
23:57
could be something really good. And I think it's not always
24:00
the best environment for some dogs. There are some dogs who don't like other dogs.
24:03
There's some dogs who just get very overwhelmed in that environment.
24:06
It's not always the right amount of staff to the
24:10
amount of dogs, or that's what happened when I was there anyway. And that,
24:13
that wasn't, that wasn't good. So, you know, I think, I mean,
24:16
if, no, if anyone is looking to put their dog in a daycare, I think
24:20
there's definitely things that are to aware of and to check in
24:24
on, which, you know, we can chat about in a bit if that's
24:27
helpful. But yeah, so, so I think
24:31
it's not suitable for every dog. Some dogs are fine, but some dogs it can
24:35
be very overwhelming. So that's, that's where I started.
24:39
And I thought, okay, well, I would still like to work with dogs, so what
24:42
can I do? And I thought, okay, why don't I do some solo walking and
24:46
some sitting and things like that, which I loved. And I ended up actually
24:50
working with a lot of dogs who were quite nervous or reactive So
24:53
I learned a lot from that. That was, that was a great experience. And then
24:57
I thought, I really, really wanna learn more. I feel
25:00
like I would like to be doing more with these dogs rather than just
25:04
hanging out with them and just taking them on walks and actually be able to
25:07
help a little bit more as well. So I decided to do some training courses
25:11
and then, yeah, I've just done a bunch of different courses from lots of
25:15
different providers. Um, and I'm still doing little bits here and
25:18
there as well to continue my professional development.
25:22
So yeah, I, that's, that's kind of how I ended up here. And now I
25:26
run one-to-one sessions with owners and their dogs and also offer
25:30
training walks. I was very lucky as well to shadow some
25:33
really great trainers and behaviourists and work with them. So that's been
25:38
a big part of my learning as well. Yeah, it's interesting what you say there
25:41
actually. You said it at the start about you are just as interested in human
25:45
behaviour as you are sort of dog or animal behaviour and the
25:48
fact that you do the training sessions with the owner or the pet parent and
25:52
the dog together, I guess. So that's kind of quite a nice mix
25:56
because how much actually is it about dog behaviour versus human
26:00
behaviour? I do find a
26:04
lot of my sessions is training the
26:08
owners as well as the dogs, sort of telling them how to manage different things
26:12
and more explaining to them, not telling them, but explaining to them how to manage
26:15
different things and, um, how to build that strong
26:19
relationship with their dog and trust with their dog. I think that's,
26:23
to be honest, the majority of it is, is helping them help
26:27
their dogs. Yeah. You know, because I can do training walks with people's
26:31
dogs and they could behave amazingly with me, but if the people aren't
26:35
doing the work at home and being consistent, then the dog's gonna be great with
26:38
me, but they're gonna have the same problems at home still. So.
26:41
Yeah. Yeah. And it is interesting what you said about dog daycare. Maybe we can
26:44
touch on that before we finish, but it would be brilliant if we could see
26:48
actual kind of trainers and behaviourists as a mandatory thing
26:51
that dog daycares have to have in place. Yeah.
26:55
I think so. Yeah. Yeah. 'Cause it's not just about handing the dog
26:58
over and then the dog, you know, spends all day there doing nothing. You know,
27:01
the dog's going to have certain behaviours and challenges that it's gonna
27:05
display in daycare as well. And they, you know, need help. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
27:09
100%. So, um, you are very focused on force-free,
27:14
science-based, backed training methods. It's a bit of a
27:17
mouthful for me to say there, but, um, yeah, how, how does that
27:21
work? What's involved? What does it mean? So, um,
27:24
when I say force-free, that means that we're not using anything
27:28
that's aversive or that's going to harm the dog. So thinking
27:32
about not, obviously not using any physical violence, which I think
27:37
some people sometimes do, and you're like, oh well,
27:40
Well, you know, there's other ways we can do this that work,
27:45
that aren't gonna hurt our dogs and damage the relationship. So no
27:49
physical violence, nothing like choke chains or electric collars or
27:54
basically anything that's gonna hurt your dog. So we wanna think about building
27:58
the best relationship possible with our dogs and how
28:02
we can build that trust. And all of those things that use force are
28:06
gonna impact the relationship with you and your dog. Be damaging
28:10
to your relationship. And so there's multiple reasons why forceful training
28:15
methods are not great. So, well, not, I wouldn't
28:19
agree with them. So firstly, the relationship with your dog. Secondly, you don't know what
28:22
is reinforcing for your dog. And thirdly, your dog might make mix-ups
28:28
in associations. So just to give you an example,
28:32
if you have an e-collar on your dog and you are thinking, I want
28:35
the dog to walk nicely beside me. Yeah, if the dog starts pulling,
28:40
I'm going to use the e-collar. And then
28:43
what happens is if another dog is coming towards it,
28:47
if they see the other dog, they might think, every time I see a dog,
28:50
I get a shock. Or, yeah, that one time I saw a dog, I got
28:53
a shock. And that's not forming the correct association.
28:57
So it's not very clear, um, is the other thing for
29:00
our dogs. So when I say force-free, I just mean we're doing
29:05
all the things that are positive. Yeah. And helping them reinforce
29:10
them with things that they want rather than saying, do this or I
29:14
will give you a shock. Well, it's interesting, Sabrina,
29:17
'cause like recently I've been doing a little bit of reading and as we've been
29:21
doing the podcast, like learning loads more by just seeing people's research online and
29:24
stuff. And there's a, a lady who talks very much about like dogs experiencing
29:29
trauma. And how that then affects their behaviour and obviously their
29:33
wellbeing. So actually some of these non-force-free or these kind
29:37
of aversive methods could actually kind of traumatise your
29:40
dog. Definitely. Potentially. Definitely. Which in itself is just
29:44
something that we shouldn't be doing as, as human beings to
29:48
another species. Yeah, exactly. And I
29:52
just think, you know, if you're not gonna do it to like a child,
29:56
you're not gonna hit a child, why are you gonna do it to a dog?
29:58
Yeah. And it's crazy. And sometimes I see like like a
30:02
puppy with a, with a choke chain on. And I'm like, oh my God,
30:05
that poor puppy. Because first of all, you're hurting their
30:08
neck, you're gonna damage, damage their neck area.
30:12
Yeah, they're gonna end up with problems later on. And second of all, um,
30:16
it's just insane because that's a puppy and you've got so much
30:19
opportunity to, to be kind in a different
30:23
way and be kind. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's, that's always insane when
30:27
I see that. I think it's interesting because I think it requires like the human
30:30
owner guardian to be more patient and do more
30:33
work. And actually, I wonder if that's where people are like, oh,
30:37
I just want a dog. I'm not going to do— I'm not going to put
30:40
the effort in. I'm just going to want a dog to walk by me.
30:41
But actually, and I think this is good because it's telling people there's
30:45
more to owning an animal than just having it. You need to like take care
30:49
of it in so many different ways. It's not just about feeding and nutrition,
30:52
it's behaviour and love and compassion and
30:56
wellbeing and all that other stuff. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, building a
31:00
relationship with the dog and And I think you're absolutely right.
31:03
I think a lot of the time people do see it as a shortcut of
31:07
like, okay, this will just fix all the problems. Yeah. But in reality it can
31:10
cause more problems. And you know, there's a lot of
31:14
trainers online, especially at the moment, there's a lot of information online which is sort
31:18
of promoting that style of training, but I don't think people really understand
31:23
or have the full understanding of what might happen if you sort of do
31:27
go along with it. Yeah. Yeah. And just,
31:31
it's, it's an interesting sort of thing that you've said there about kind
31:34
of misinformation and so much being available online
31:39
now that it's sometimes quite confusing or
31:42
hard to know where to start, where you're looking when you're looking for some support.
31:46
I mean, are there any sort of red flags or things that people should
31:50
be sort of mindful of when they're out there looking for I
31:55
think that's true. Yeah, that's a good, that's a good point. I think obviously that,
31:59
like you said, there is so much information now online, which is in a way
32:02
brilliant because you've got so much option, especially if, you know, you potentially can't
32:06
afford to get a trainer. There is so much free information online, which is fantastic.
32:11
Um, but at the same time, there is so much stuff that
32:15
could be damaging. And yeah, I think things to look out
32:18
for are things that are quick fixes a lot of the time,
32:21
like you said. Yeah, if someone is saying like this piece of equipment will
32:25
fix your loose lead walking, the likelihood is it's probably hurting your dog.
32:29
Even there's, there's sorts of harnesses and things which people claim
32:32
like this will fix your loose lead walking, and it's like that style of
32:36
harness might affect the way they walk in the long run,
32:40
that the way they, their gait is. So you have to really think
32:44
about that. And honestly, yeah, putting in the time and
32:47
effort is probably gonna give you the most reward.
32:50
But it's hard, it's not, it's not easy. And I can appreciate that people do
32:54
have a tough time with training, especially if they've got a dog who's reactive or
32:58
nervous. It's, it's really not easy. Um, but I
33:02
do think that you're going to have a much better
33:06
relationship with your dog and better outcomes if you're
33:10
not using those pieces of equipment or violence or anything like Yeah.
33:14
Yeah. Yeah. And even what you said there about some of the language that,
33:17
um, is sometimes used, I think that that's a bit of a red flag anyway,
33:21
because it's overpromising things that probably aren't that achievable without time,
33:25
effort, patience, care, love, like you have said. So in terms
33:29
of a behaviourist and a trainer, so you're a trainer
33:33
and you're a very good trainer, but there's obviously behaviourists out there. We have spoke
33:36
to behaviourists in the past on this podcast. What is the difference between the two?
33:40
So a trainer will usually do things like teaching you
33:43
skills. Like obedience and things like leave
33:47
it, drop it, toilet training for puppies, puppy biting,
33:51
crate training, all of these things that are skills or
33:55
tools to help you manage these issues with your dog.
33:59
Um, when we talk about behaviourists, usually what
34:04
I would do is, in terms of comparison, is you'd probably think of them more
34:08
of as a dog psychologist kind of in a way like that, because they're
34:12
going to be looking at more the emotional problems, any, a bit more depth,
34:15
well, a lot more depth to do with health problems. So,
34:19
you know, a lot of dogs who have behavioural issues often are in
34:22
pain, or they have, um, like potentially
34:26
tummy issues, things like that. Um, and they will
34:30
be able to look at that in a bit more detail and work with the
34:33
vets in a slightly different way to how I would be able to. Um,
34:37
I do always check. I always say like, has your dog had any of these
34:40
issues? Because that's always useful to know. But, um, yeah,
34:43
if your dog is reactive, so if your dog has any aggression issues,
34:47
um, resource guarding, separation anxiety,
34:50
that's, that's what I would be saying is more a
34:54
behaviourist, yeah, job. And if that's the
34:57
case and, you know, it's out of my realm, I'll refer on to behaviourists that
35:01
I know, and I know some really great ones. Things. So yeah, it's, um,
35:04
I'd love, I'd love to go into behavioral work. So I'm
35:09
hoping like as the time goes on and I keep learning and I can do
35:12
some more qualifications that I can also do that because I think it's
35:16
really interesting and I'd love to, yeah, be able to help in that way as
35:18
well. Yeah, sounds like the 2 things complement each other as
35:21
well. Definitely. That you can, yeah, you can still have both alongside each
35:25
other. Well, good luck with the training for that. Thank you.
35:28
Yeah, thank you. How long does it take to— do you know how long does
35:31
it take to become a behaviourist? I don't know. You know, I'm not entirely sure.
35:34
Um, I think there's, there's different things. So there's some courses
35:39
online which say like, oh, this is a behaviour course, it's a 3-year-long course
35:42
that you can do online in your own time. And then there's some which is
35:45
like you can actually go back to uni, um, and do like
35:49
a graduate degree, postgraduate degree. Um, I have to do some
35:53
more research, to be honest. Yeah, I think— yeah, no, I was just thinking if
35:55
anyone was considering going into this, because, um, obviously we've got some questions about
36:00
like how people can get into training. Um, but just
36:03
in terms of some of the clients that you've worked with, sort of the humans
36:07
and their dogs, what are the sort of common challenges that
36:11
they're both facing, um, that you're sort of helping them with? Yeah.
36:15
Um, so I work a lot with puppies,
36:18
which I love. I absolutely love working with puppies. Great.
36:22
School job. Yeah, it's so good. I think I find that
36:27
a lot of owners have issues
36:31
with the biting in the first, you know, the first 3,
36:35
4 months, which is really normal. It's a normal issue for puppies.
36:39
Yeah, isn't that just teething puppies? It is, yeah, pretty much.
36:42
Um, so a lot of people will contact me about that. Sometimes it's toilet training.
36:46
They might have a dog that, you know, was free roam that,
36:50
um, when they were picked up, before they were picked up, so the toilet training
36:54
is a little bit more difficult, or they've learned on the puppy pads, and actually
36:58
the puppy pads can be a bit of a nightmare, I find.
37:02
So they're confusing for everyone, to be honest. So I—
37:06
that sometimes it's the toilet training. Um, there's also,
37:10
you know, dogs who probably want to eat absolutely everything
37:14
off the ground, and we need to build a really strong leave it. Um,
37:18
and there's various steps we need to take to get to a really strong
37:21
leave it. Uh, things like that. And then— sorry, that description
37:25
of a really strong leave it is just so
37:28
nice. Little kind of packaged word of just like quite simple. Leave it.
37:31
Yeah, leave it. Yeah, exactly. About the tone
37:35
of voice as well. Leave it. I guess you've got to do it quite firmly,
37:38
have you? You know what? Yeah, firmly.
37:41
But also you want to think about out. Is your dog gonna turn
37:45
around if you're going, leave it, and you're shouting at it? Is your
37:48
dog gonna want to turn around if you go, leave it, and you've got something
37:51
really nice with you? Positive again. I've got something nicer, trying to
37:55
make it a bit exciting. Yeah. So that's another thing sometimes we talk about
37:59
is tone of voice. And, you know, we're all guilty of sometimes panicking
38:03
and going, ah, leave it. Yeah. Because that's your instinct to
38:06
be like, oh my God, I don't want my dog to eat this and get
38:08
kick. So, um, it does happen, but you know,
38:12
the more you practice doing a nice like leave it, hopefully that'll
38:16
feed into helping you a bit more. Oh, I love that. Um,
38:27
yeah, and then I guess with, with adolescent dogs, um,
38:31
the problems can change a little bit. Um, you can end up
38:34
with, you know, your dog's toilet trained now, your dog has, um,
38:37
isn't, isn't biting you because their teething has got like— they've got past
38:41
the teething stage, um, but they are struggling
38:45
to regulate those big feelings and they
38:49
seeing other dogs and getting a bit frustrated. They want, they want to go
38:53
up to every single dog and say hello. The recall goes out the window because
38:57
they're like, everything else is more interesting than like my parents now,
39:00
like teenagers. Yeah, so Um, it's,
39:04
uh, it's funny, I feel like there's a lot of comparisons to be made between
39:07
adolescent dogs and teenage humans, and then also, um, babies and puppies.
39:12
So it's very interesting. Yeah. Yes.
39:15
And probably older dogs as well, and elderly people.
39:19
That's the thing, that just need a bit more kind of care and attention and
39:23
definitely patience if they're struggling when they get older. I'm just thinking of my,
39:27
my little Betty and, yeah, her ageing now and I'm
39:32
sure there's things I could still do with her training-wise, but you know,
39:36
as they say, they can't teach an old dog new tricks, but I'm not so
39:39
sure. Yeah. I think you can teach an old dog new tricks,
39:44
but you do have to be aware of habits they've formed and having to
39:48
do all the unlearning slash, I guess, counterconditioning, depending on
39:52
what it's for. It's hard to,
39:56
it can be hard to work with an older dog who who maybe
40:01
is reactive because they had a really bad experience when they were younger. Um,
40:05
and you know what, that makes a lot of sense. And not to say you
40:07
can't, but again, that's more behaviourist, so they would probably know a
40:11
lot more than I do about that and how to manage that. Yeah, just thinking,
40:14
you know, if you rescue an older dog from a
40:18
charity and yeah, they've got that history, that must be quite
40:21
hard as well. Yeah, it can. You end up sort of discovering things
40:25
as you go with, with, um, those clients. And I've had, I've had a couple
40:29
recently and It's, it's really rewarding because you
40:34
can see the progress they make from the beginning when the dog might be a
40:37
bit tentative or potentially playing up just a little bit because they're in
40:42
a new environment and everything is different. But it's
40:46
really rewarding to get to the point where they've done some really good training and
40:49
the dog feels more comfortable and safe in that new environment. Yeah.
40:54
Sabrina, is there like a prime great client,
40:58
like, so when you walk in know, this is a puppy, it's going to be
41:01
easy to treat, or this is a certain type of breed, it'll be really easy
41:04
to train. Yeah. Is there anyone like that? Does that stand out at
41:07
all, or not really? I think the best clients that
41:11
I have— I love working with puppies, so I've got to say I
41:15
do have a bit of a bias towards working with puppies. Who doesn't?
41:18
I think in terms of— it's more—
41:22
I think it's more to do with the owner, interestingly. Okay. Yeah.
41:26
It's really their willingness to
41:31
do the work and be consistent. And also when they're
41:35
kind, it makes such a difference going into owners' houses and they're really
41:38
nice to you. That makes a massive difference. It's so nice. I'm like, oh,
41:42
I can't wait to see that client later because they're really lovely.
41:45
And, um, yeah, it's their willingness to work. And I think consistency
41:49
is such a big part of it. So that always helps. I know it's hard
41:52
to be consistent. I have ADHD, so I'm terrible at being consistent.
41:56
So, um, I think consistency is really difficult, but it does really pay off.
42:01
So I could, when an owner's done that and you can tell the work they've
42:05
put in, it's so, so like, it's so nice to see.
42:08
And that's, that's my favourite type of client to work with. Oh, that's gorgeous.
42:11
Yeah. Yeah. And so they should be nice, you know? Yeah. I mean, it's always
42:15
fascinating, isn't it? 'Cause there's this thing about sometimes if a dog
42:18
is a bit difficult, you think, oh, I wonder what their owner's like.
42:23
And if the dogs are thinking, oh, yeah. What Betty
42:27
portrays for you, Sasha, when they're like, good dog,
42:30
Sasha. Yeah. Sometimes when Betty's at daycare, I think, I hope she's
42:34
behaving herself. And then I think, I wonder what people think about me.
42:38
Like, I don't know, but yeah. I'm sure they think
42:42
you're both lovely. Both lovely things all the time. Yeah.
42:46
I hope so. I hope so. They will. So is that, do you think
42:49
that's the most rewarding side of your job then, is just seeing that
42:53
progress that a dog's made? I guess it is, is it? Yeah.
42:56
Yeah. I think so. I think so. I also, I do love
43:00
problem solving. I think I get a little bit bored
43:03
if I'm not problem solving. So I think I enjoy the problem
43:06
solving. I enjoy chatting to clients. Like I said, I think being able
43:10
to do the one-to-one sessions where I can have a, have a yap with the
43:14
clients about what's going on and, you know, that that I really
43:17
enjoy as well. So, um, yeah, perfect job for you. Yeah,
43:21
yeah, bro, I guess. I'm so glad you found it. Yeah, it's, it's wonderful.
43:25
And yeah, the progress is great. Like, I had a— I have a lovely client
43:29
and they did a block of 6, so we did, we did 6 sessions.
43:32
And I did some training walks with him recently, and I did a training walk
43:36
last week, and his loose lead walking was so
43:40
good. I was just like, wow, I know you put in all the
43:43
work, I can tell. He's so good on the lead,
43:48
um, and I just know they did, they did exactly what they were meant to
43:51
and what, um, we spoke about, and it— that was so nice. And he— and,
43:55
you know, they're gonna have an easier time, he's gonna have an easier time for
43:58
it as well. So what job satisfaction. Amazing.
44:01
Yeah. And then just to clarify, the loose lead walking,
44:05
is that then when you have a dog on a lead but you've kind of—
44:06
you're relaxed and you've got it like not as tense where you're holding it
44:10
really stiffly? Is that right? Yeah, exactly. So the lead is
44:13
loose, you've got— they've got enough lead to make the choice for it to be
44:16
loose. Okay, so we're not making it tense ourselves, and they're just walking beside
44:20
us, or maybe a little bit in front or a little bit behind, but as
44:23
long as the lead isn't tense, I'm happy. Oh, nice. Yeah, nice. Yeah, yeah.
44:26
And he's only in partnership. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, and he's only 6 months,
44:30
so I was very impressed. Amazing. Oh yeah, I want
44:34
to see these. Yeah, these puppies. Oh, sounds so cute. I'll send you some pictures
44:37
later. Oh yeah, do. Yeah, please do. I need to upload them to my Instagram.
44:41
That's one thing I'm really not very good at, is being consistent with my
44:45
social media. It's It's a whole nother job, innit? It is.
44:50
It really is. Yeah. It is. And, um,
44:53
I mean, we talked earlier about sort of there being lots of stuff
44:57
online. Yeah. And we recently read in a nationwide survey by
45:01
Tuggy Enough that 34% of dog owners in the UK feel
45:04
confused, unsure, or frustrated when it comes to training their dog. I mean,
45:08
why do you think that is? Is it, do you think that because there's just
45:12
so much stuff out there and it's all a bit confusing, or they've gotta put
45:14
the effort in? Why do you think they feel a bit confused?
45:26
Yeah, I think it's a mix of it. I think you're right. I think there's
45:29
definitely so much stuff out there. I think if I didn't know about chaining,
45:33
I would be confused. I would, I would look at this, all of this
45:37
stuff and information, and go, ah, like, what's correct? What do
45:41
I use? And then, yeah, um, I would definitely be confused.
45:44
And I think, yeah, frustrated feels like it is.
45:47
It is. It's really not easy, I think, raising, raising a
45:51
puppy. Like, they are little creatures you bring into
45:55
a house with sharp teeth, and, um, it's not,
45:58
um, it's not easy sometimes. So I get why
46:02
people get frustrated, and I think it makes sense that sometimes they do want
46:06
an easy fix, and they're like, oh, I can't can't put this work in.
46:10
So I think, I think that's definitely a part of it. Sabrina, like,
46:13
so I've never had my own dog. My grandparents had a dog and that's
46:17
the only kind of interaction I've really had on a long term. And I know,
46:21
so my knowledge of dogs the way they are is probably quite old.
46:26
And it was always a bit like dogs lived in packs and you had an
46:29
alpha and the alpha. Is that still a way of approaching dog
46:33
training at all? So, um,
46:37
I have forgotten his name, but the guy who, um,
46:41
said that, um, he actually disproved his own theory a
46:45
certain amount of years later about dogs. Yeah, right. So, um,
46:49
the idea of alpha, um, is, is, is a
46:52
myth really. And, um, a lot of— actually, you'll find
46:56
a lot of the trainers who might use a bit more force,
47:00
they start to use, um, that principle of like,
47:03
you need to show your dog who's the alpha. Yeah, but actually that's been disproved.
47:07
So again, and kind of going on to the science-backed stuff,
47:10
um, which is what you mentioned and I forgot to talk about it, the science-backed
47:14
stuff is basically just thinking about what studies have been done
47:17
and following the science of what works and the, the actual evidence.
47:22
So when, when I'm using training methods, I'm not going like Yeah,
47:27
the dog is, has to be submissive because I'm the alpha
47:30
and then they listen to me because that's not what the science says.
47:35
Interesting. Yeah. So that's, it's interesting actually, because I
47:38
think I did watch a documentary about wolves and they're dog
47:42
packs, right? They're related to dogs and they don't have an alpha, do they?
47:46
They work very much as a collective. So actually that probably supports
47:49
that whole different method of looking at it.
47:53
Yeah, I was just thinking that. Why would you want an alpha? You want everyone
47:56
to be sort of, yeah, supportive of each other and,
47:59
yeah, feeling more like a collective. So rather than the
48:03
dominant one. Absolutely. A few lessons there for life,
48:07
I think. Yeah.
48:11
Um, so if there are people out there listening, thinking about either a
48:15
career change, becoming, um, a trainer or just,
48:19
you know, people that really want to work with dogs and do all the great
48:22
stuff that you're doing with dogs to help them develop and grow
48:26
and learn? Like, what advice could you share for someone having been through
48:31
it yourself now? Yeah, um, I think it's
48:35
a— it is a very unregulated industry. Um, anyone can call themselves a trainer,
48:40
so hence why we have a lot of people who don't know any of the
48:42
science and they're like, I'm a trainer and you need to be an alpha to
48:46
your dog. Um, so it's a very unregulated industry,
48:49
but I think that is why you should go out and get accreditation if
48:54
you can't get like a, um, if there's
48:57
no regulation. Yeah, yeah. So like, um, I,
49:02
I'm accredited with the ABTC, which is the Animal Behaviour
49:06
and Training Council, and also the Association of Pet Dog Trainers,
49:09
so the APDT. And they're both fantastic.
49:13
So they, they have accreditation, so that means that you can be listed on their
49:17
website. And also it's like a form of like you've been assessed and
49:20
you've done like you've got this level of knowledge so people know that you— what's
49:25
the word— you're like, uh, practicing, you know your stuff. Yeah, you know
49:29
your stuff. Um, so to put it simply, exactly.
49:32
Um, and, um, so I definitely recommend getting
49:37
a qualification, well, an accreditation with a board like that.
49:40
Um, there's also the IMDT, the, um,
49:44
Institute of Modern Dog Trainers, who I've done a few courses with. I didn't do
49:48
my assessment, but I've done a couple of courses. Um, and there's also
49:52
PACT, I believe, who I haven't worked with, but I know that they
49:55
also do accreditation, I think. And then, yeah, do lots of
49:59
courses from different providers. There's, there's so many good ones. Like I said,
50:03
I did some with the IMDT, I did some with the APDT,
50:07
I did School of Canine Science— they're fantastic.
50:10
I did like a puppy course on there. And yeah,
50:13
so lots of different things. And there's also so many free resources online
50:17
if you look for them. So whenever I do my Um, if I'm,
50:22
if I'm a bit low on money and I can't do a course, I will
50:25
do some continued professional development with some webinars that I found that
50:29
are free, and they're always again with people who are accredited, so I
50:32
know that they know their stuff. Um, yeah, so that's,
50:36
that's what I'd say. And get experience, um, try and shadow trainers,
50:39
and yeah, and work experience, that's, that's all such a massive part of
50:43
it. And even though I said all the,
50:47
all the problems with daycare I don't think I would ever want
50:50
to go to working back in one because of the experience I had, but I
50:55
did learn a lot, um, because I saw so many dog interactions,
51:00
um, watching them all the time. And yeah, their behaviour and,
51:04
um, yeah, how they responded, how different breeds responded in different environments
51:08
as well. Yeah, breed is so interesting to me.
51:11
I think there's, there's so— there's, there's a lot you can do, and there's a
51:15
lot of courses that are quite affordable actually, which is
51:19
nice. And some are more expensive, but some of them are quite affordable.
51:23
So I think, yeah, if you want to become a dog trainer, then you should.
51:28
It's a very rewarding job. I have trainer friends, and like,
51:31
it's really nice to have trainer friends because it can be—
51:35
if you're working with just dogs and you're not doing the one-to-one sessions, you could
51:39
be like, I haven't spoken to anyone today, which is what I found a lot
51:42
when I was just doing the walking and the sitting, which is part of the
51:45
reason why I thought, right, I'd love to do training as well because I can
51:47
talk to people. Yeah. So otherwise I'm talking to the dogs all
51:50
day and going insane. I need some humans.
51:55
Yeah, yeah. So I think, um, that's,
51:58
that's really nice, like having trainer friends. And like everyone,
52:02
so many people I've worked with are so supportive, so lovely.
52:06
Um, I'm very lucky, yeah, to have worked with a lot of people that
52:10
I have. That's great. Oh yeah, it's great you have that community around you and
52:13
you build those contacts and that. Yeah, because I say it can be maybe a
52:17
little bit lonely at times, but good that you also mentioned that there's lots of
52:20
low-cost or free resources out there because I
52:24
think there just seems to have been a trend recently because
52:28
the industry is not that regulated, because there's lots of maybe
52:32
interest from people wanting to do this as a career, that there's
52:36
kind of courses that can become quite expensive. It's like
52:40
become a whole industry in itself in terms of let's
52:43
make lots of money from people who want to be be, I don't know,
52:47
trainers, behaviorists, groomers, whatever. And you think, wow,
52:50
that, that's, that's quite pricey. So I think it's good that
52:54
there is stuff out there. Definitely isn't
52:58
going to break the bank, 100%. And I think what one
53:02
thing as well is to, when you factor in, um,
53:06
I guess when you, when you start working and factor in how much you charge,
53:10
just think about as well the travel that you're doing, the time you're spending traveling,
53:14
time you're spending replying to clients, the time, like, think about all of those things.
53:18
So I think that is important to think about. Um, I think I,
53:22
I find a lot of people will be like, wow, you just did like— you
53:24
only did 3 sessions today, like what do you do for the rest of the
53:27
day? You have so much time. And I'm like, I kind of wish I had
53:30
a lot more time, but I've— I'm, I'm moving, I'm traveling between clients,
53:33
which takes time. I'm replying to messages and trying to organize
53:37
sessions. I, I struggle with scheduling, so I, I,
53:41
I get a bit stressed when I'm doing that. But I find, you know,
53:43
people need to change things sometimes, or I need to change something. It takes
53:47
up a lot of time, um, doing all of the admin.
53:50
So, and I'm sure you've got to do a lot of prep because I'm,
53:53
yeah, I'm certain you don't just turn up and go, right.
53:56
Yeah. Yeah. It's all that. Yeah. And you do, you do your continued professional development.
54:00
You, yeah. You want to be researching, like if, if you,
54:03
if there's a breed that you haven't worked with before, you want to look into
54:07
that. Yeah. Yeah. Make sure you've got like maybe a list of
54:10
questions if, if you think that's important, if it's slightly
54:14
different to what, like the standard puppy session would look like.
54:18
Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. You're running a
54:21
business, aren't you, Sabrina, at the end of the day? Yeah. But just to sort
54:25
of close the loop, 2 final questions. Closing the loop on the doggy daycare thing,
54:28
having seen what you've seen, experienced what you've experienced,
54:32
what should people look out for then if they're thinking about doggy
54:36
daycare for their dog? Yeah, for sure. Any kind of considerations? Because,
54:39
you know, Betty goes to daycare and she's been going there for a long time,
54:43
totally trust them, but I can imagine if I was looking now, for the
54:46
first time, oh goodness, you know, because there is, there's lots of places out there.
54:50
What, what should people be looking for? Yeah, absolutely. I think there's
54:55
a bunch of things that are really important to have a look for, and this
54:57
is probably quite a lot, but I feel like I do want to err on
55:00
the side of caution rather than not. So think about
55:04
how many dogs they take per day. So are they taking like,
55:09
I don't know, more than like 10 even,
55:12
even that, I'm like, that's, that's quite a lot. And how many staff do they
55:15
have to, to each dog? There are legalities there,
55:19
I'm— I, I believe. Yeah. Um, the daycare
55:23
I worked at obviously broke that. Um, but the— yeah,
55:27
so think about staff-to-dog ratio and the amount of space they
55:31
have. Um, do they have outdoor space?
55:34
Um, is there structure within the day,
55:37
um, or is it just we just let the dogs hang out and do whatever
55:40
the hell they want and then we take them on one walk? Um,
55:43
is it, um, is there cameras? Um,
55:47
you know, it's— I think it's good to have that accountability there,
55:50
to have the cameras and see. You can just have a look and see like
55:52
what your dog's doing throughout the day. I know like there's obviously the privacy
55:57
thing, like you don't want to make staff feel uncomfortable because they're like, I'm just
56:00
being watched all day and on edge, but I do I think it's
56:03
important to know what's going on.
56:07
Do they separate dogs and where do they separate them if it's
56:11
needed? Are they taking dogs who shouldn't really be in daycare,
56:14
like dogs who are, don't like other dogs or are nervous?
56:18
Are they, this is a lot of things. Sorry. It's a long list. No,
56:21
it's good. It's good. 'Cause there's probably things people don't consider.
56:25
Yeah. Yeah.
56:28
Yeah. Yes, are the staff friendly? Do they have any qualifications,
56:32
any of the staff? Yeah, all of those things are really important, I think.
56:36
Um, do they, do they know about body language? Do they
56:39
know how to, um, interrupt play that might be getting a bit too rough,
56:43
or they might be playing for a bit long? Can they teach the dogs how
56:46
to regulate that play a little bit better? Yeah,
56:50
lots of things like that. Yeah, I don't know if there's probably
56:54
more, but I can't think of them No, it's great advice,
56:58
isn't it? Yeah, it is. It is. 'Cause you know, it does impact on your
57:01
dog's behaviour. So, you know, over time, if the dog's
57:05
in an environment where all those things aren't being adhered to or
57:09
followed, you know, your dog could actually be quite damaged by it.
57:12
So it's a bit like working in a toxic workplace, isn't it? Suddenly you like
57:15
realise it's like had a real impact on your behaviour.
57:20
Yeah. Or, you know, you go to school and your teachers are a bit crap
57:23
and no one really cares about you and you don't feel like anyone's invested in
57:26
your learning or— Oh God. Bully there. Yeah, the bullies in the playground,
57:31
and no one comes over in the playground and goes, come on guys, you need
57:34
to, yeah, be a bit more gentle with each other. So yeah, it's, um,
57:38
it's important, but I think it's a whole like topic in itself, Nat, that we
57:42
really explore. Yeah, for a future podcast.
57:45
Yeah, yeah. I was gonna say, don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are some
57:48
great ones out there as well. And like, I know there's people,
57:51
there's people that I know who do boarding and they make sure that all the
57:54
dogs get on, the dogs know each other other, and they keep them separate
57:58
when they need to or when they leave the house. They, they're so fantastic.
58:02
Um, I actually think sometimes, like, someone who runs
58:05
like, like a smaller care daycare with like
58:10
maybe up to 4 dogs who know each other can be a better option sometimes.
58:14
And also make sure they have a license for the daycare. That's, that's another one.
58:18
Yeah, that's a bit of a no-brainer, isn't it? So cool,
58:21
thank you. So if people, um, want to learn more from you or they want
58:25
to get in touch or they want to find out about the Floppy Club and
58:28
some of your sessions, how do people reach you? You can
58:33
find my website, which is www.floppyearclub.co.uk.
58:39
And then my email is floppyearclub@yahoo.com.
58:44
I don't know why I've done .co.uk and .com. That was an
58:48
accident. So there's that. You hopefully, if you type in Floppy Ear Club dog
58:52
training, I'm hoping it comes up on Google and
58:56
you should be able to find me there as well. And my Instagram is the
58:59
same name, Floppy Ear Club. So, um, as I am bad
59:03
at uploading, but I still hopefully get my message requests through.
59:07
Great. And we will, we will obviously let people know, people can kind
59:10
of connect in with our socials too. So if they want to find you that
59:14
way, um, yeah, you can also go onto the
59:17
Paws Between Us Instagram and find you there. So thank
59:21
you so much. It's been really interesting to learn a bit more about you
59:25
and your role and your your amazing job.
59:30
So rewarding. And yeah, yeah, we wish you all the best of luck. Thank you.
59:34
And, uh, yeah, we must keep in touch, Sabrina. I'm looking forward to attending another
59:37
one of your sessions in the future. Oh yeah, 100%. Maybe when it's not
59:41
as hot. Nice to meet you. Lovely to meet you too.
59:45
Thank you so much for having me.