Latest / Hey BigHead: The Vegas Local Podcast / Illusions and Mentalism with Vegas' Kent Axell | 338

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Illusions and Mentalism with Vegas' Kent Axell | 338 · Hey BigHead: The Vegas Local Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I got the gotta get the taste of scorpion out of my mouth.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: Perfect.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Let me answer your question.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: What does scorpion taste like?
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, uh tastes like um tarantula.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: That answers nothing of what I Okay.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: What does tarantula taste like?
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like we're gonna go down this rabbit hole.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like mmm.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, are you chewing or not?
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Not chewing.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Not chewing.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Not chewing.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so not taste buds.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um tastes like uh tarantula and scorpion.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: I've found that they both taste a lot like blood.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: That might just be the blood.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they're tasteless, and I'm just tasting all the blood.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: That could be it.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh by the way, if you hear a random snort in the background, it's Julie back there.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: She snorts.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: So usually I think the record for the guest of how many times you've gotten her to snort is five.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: So right now you're you're you're doing well.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm on the we're on the path.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: We're on the board here.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like we've got like uh two sentences for one snort, and I just fucked it up.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: I just made it three.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's just just I'm gonna calm down.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, guys.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back, everybody, to a new episode of the Hey Big Head Show.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: What an intro this was, by the way.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: This is this is gonna be such a great episode.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Let me tell you something.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: One of my favorite things about having this podcast is and having the team with me, is we get uh we we get a chance to go out of out of town and just do some fun shit.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's such a good time.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: And last week, the team and I we went to Mandalay Bay and we saw an incredible show in a phenomenal show called Ghost Stories.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um it was so good that we had to have the creator and host of the show, Kent Axel, on our show.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, Kent, welcome to the show.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: You are it's good to be here.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now, listen, I haven't looked at your LinkedIn profile yet, but I'm gonna assume it says something along the lines of Kent Axel, magician, mentalist, storyteller, performer, and creator of ghost stories.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Would I be close to that?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if I were to uh well you know I mean I actually haven't looked at my LinkedIn profile in a long time.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: I have.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think last time I last time I I went on it, it I I was had the trade show um uh angle on my profile.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: It said something like, I build crowds at booths or something like that.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: But it should say storytelling.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's a way better corporate angle.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: So much better.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: We actually did look at it.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: It said the trade show and also said part-time at Arby's as cashier since 2002.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: So you might want to update LinkedIn, just say it.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Then they know I get the experience.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: I like you, man.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: I've seen your show twice.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't still there are I mean, both times, there's only one act that you did that was uh the what I saw the first time, and I still don't know how you did it.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I don't I don't want to talk about it because I don't want to give too much info away, but everything you did, I was so blown away with the the the magic side, the the storytelling side.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Now I feel like I'm just repeating what I just said, but you do such a great job at hitting all of those marks that I I I feel like Ghost Stories is a home run.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: How long have you been at Mandalay Bay for doing ghost stories?
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: We've been doing that show there for three years, a little over three years, like three years and a month at this point.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um three years and three months, my goodness.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been uh it's been quite a ride.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh if if you're calling it a bullseye, that's awesome.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: There are obviously things on our side that we're like, man, we've been talking about improving that for two years and we haven't touched it yet, so we should probably address it.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, but yeah, I mean, it's certainly um juxtaposed strongly against other things that you might see in Vegas.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's for sure.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: So uh that I think works in our favor uh to some degree.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: One of the most common pieces of feedback that we get in the show is that people are uh they didn't know what to expect.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh and that they are pleasantly surprised with what they got, which that's all I could possibly ask for.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we're consistently trying to push for more.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, the less you know going into it, the better.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: As long as you understand you're going into a show where there's magic, there's some mentalism, I feel like, there's a story aspect to it, and that's all you need to know.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it's an intimate setting.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Those things, you're golden.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if you enjoy a spooky vibe, that's something that I've always said for people who are asking me, you know, how do you sell tickets to a show like this in in uh Las Vegas?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I, you know, it's weird because I don't want to give away too many details about it, although it's hard to find my my ideal crowd is uh somewhere somewhere in the realm of like the uh uh OG nightmare before Christmas goth lesbian fans or something like that.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like somewhere in theirs.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: But people do tend to like it even though they don't really know what to exp what to expect coming in.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: And and I'm not certain that it's true that you uh the less you know the better, although although it is um, yeah, I don't know.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: You can't you can't it it's it's crazy because I think I'm selling a vibe, is what is what's happening.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: You're selling a vibe, and people are like, oh, that vibe looks cool, and then they buy tickets to the vibe, and then they're like, okay, what did I did I did what I see match with the vibe?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: The answer is yes.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Did what I see, did I expect what I see uh what I saw, the answer is no, right?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something something in that realm, I think.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, yeah, that's about where we are.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: I I like the fact that it works hand in hand with the fact that you're inside the prohibition, but the 1923 Prohibition bar too, right?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: So like you go there, you have a few drinks, it's it's a dark, not dark, but uh I guess it is like uh dark.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's physically dark for sure.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Physically, exactly, yes.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's not morbidly dark.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: No, exactly.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Not yet.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then you go into the show, and that's when you start to get into you know some sort of morbid facts, but it's more along the lines of it gets you set up for what's next to come.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: And you can also go to the bar too and just enjoy your your time there.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: But going to your show, it's like you know, step one and then step two.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that I think that adds a fun aspect to it.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: It feels like you're getting deeper.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the bane of our existence on the showrunner side is that can I curse here?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Don't you fucking dare.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, that fucking hallway, man.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: That I think I already did.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even ask.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think I already cursed.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's what that's what I like about you.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, okay, well.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Just go for it.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: We'll just I'm just gonna be me.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: You just be you.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh that that it does, it does kind of like you're going through like levels, right?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: And you're going like the first level of secrecy, and then and then you you you know, there's a little uh a little a few theatrics that happen in the in the room that you're waiting in, which are slightly uh which which go to a slightly deeper level, and then you get brought into the room itself, which feels like a a tertiary level of depth, but there's that fucking hallway in the middle, you know, and and it's it's uh we've we've been it's tricky.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: We it's tricky because we've been brainstorming solutions on that hallway for quite a bit.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't seen the show, if you've seen the show, you know what I mean.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't seen it, then give me a lot.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: You will know when you see it.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: But um, I don't think it poses a huge problem, but it is kind of this thing where um yeah, the benefit uh not of the hallway, but the benefit of the of the of being in the speakeasy itself is that yeah, you're going in through this.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, in this venue, there's this beautiful entrance, which is this uh this bookshelf.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: So you're already getting this like okay, you know, the feeling of entering into something that feels like immersive-ish.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then as you go deeper, now you're going into a separate room from the bar where you're now waiting, and then in the waiting, stuff happens in there too, and then you're being pulled into a third, and it's it just kind of feels like I'm not sure if I could even find my way out at this point if I have to.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, which is cool, you know.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, you're three layers deep, and now you're mine.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_03: Well, in the in the process of y'all figuring out what to do with the hallway, you can at least put a positive spin on it in your own mind and try and view it as almost like a purgatory from one room to the other.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: You're in this weird transition.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_03: Where am I going?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's again it's purgatory.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: That that's a that's a good way of looking at it.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: I I've I've thought, like in my in the sort of cockles of my mind, I've I've thought of putting like like burlap sacks over people's heads and like chaining them together and taking them into the room.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love that.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love everything about that.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Just imagine like a chain of people grabbing onto each other with blindfolds or bags over their heads walking through the casino, and it's like that's pretty good advertising.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: That would that would be fantastic advertising.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's true.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: People would be like, what's going on up in there?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's some Barnum shit.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: You would you would go viral on social media without a doubt.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's this whole liabilities thing with that minor details, minor details.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I were the one that were paying the insurance bill, and then I would be able to make that decision.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I'm I'm glad that I'm not.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm sure it's a hefty uh price tag.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure, for sure.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: That would be quite a thing, though.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um when I in the future, when I uh uh well, if actually, I mean this venue is treats us so well.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is a great venue.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um we have a really, really good situation here.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't actually ever envision moving away from really this venue, but um if we if we ever did, then uh yeah, if full full control would allow for some really um uh interesting, spooky elements that we just can't really do on the street.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Not yet.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm sure you have a whole notepad of ideas that you just keep adding to over time.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: What if we actually just like kidnapped someone every time?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Nah, nah, bad idea?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Nah, okay.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: That actually reminds me, we haven't seen Brandon since the show, Julie.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Have you seen him in the past week and a half?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, he's probably still lost in Brandon.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: We don't talk about Brandon.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Brandon makes a fabulous papoosa.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'll tell you what I like about you already, is your vocabulary is on a whole different level.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: I respect the hell out of a great vocabulary.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: He puts up a little bit of a fight, but Brandon is a damn good cook.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: God bless him.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: God bless him.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: We missed you, Brandon.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Brandon.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we miss you.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Where are you?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_04: Wherever you're crazy.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um I want to learn a little bit more about you.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely want to dive into more about today and who how you got here, but I want to learn a little bit more about you.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: You started magic.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Sahara.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: What'd you say?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Mostly Sahara.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: How I got here.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds about right.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Just straight shot all the way down.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Any red lights?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, yeah.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's too bad.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I should have three minutes before we were supposed to start.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm actually just late to everything.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'll take it.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm completely always late to everything.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: You were so what what's what's late to you then?
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because you got here three minutes beforehand.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: What's the well, I mean, you know, in the performer world, you're you're taught that like 15 minutes early is on time.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Is this is that what it is?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and on time is late.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if we're supposed to like start.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: I like I didn't know if this was a lot, I didn't do my research.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Listen.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: You wouldn't even know that Piff didn't bring Mr.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Piff.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Piff said the same thing.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Where am I?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: There's no sign outside on the office.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Am I gonna get murdered here?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: So again, this is a similar situation.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: The less you know, the better.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: About this.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: You're telling a vibe.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: That was good banter, everyone.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Julie, get the uh knapsack out and put it over his head, please.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_03: Shackles, too.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, please.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um I can get spookier.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Let's pause for a second.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want more water, by the way?
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even see your fucking thing.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm good.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: This how's that look?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Is that cool?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: It looks really good.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: You look like you're about to hack into our database, right now.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's the I'm cool.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a phase, it's a lifestyle.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's on a phase, mom! I would love some more water.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do you mind getting some more water?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I got it.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Is that possible?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we got you.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a little toasty in here.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: So are we taking a pause?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: We're pausing.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: We're pausing.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Get him get him a cup of water, S.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, this copy sucks.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I want you hydrated.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Just throw it with the others.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really glad they didn't have something valuable.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: No, you're good.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Actually.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: All the valuable stuff is in front of us.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, good.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: In in between us.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, good.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's the moneymaker.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is that two?
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's all right.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: One of those has to be for you.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, we like to spoil our guests.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: He's gonna have a stack full of water cups by the end of this show.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be dumping them in the toilet.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_03: You should keep collecting them.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: You see.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: That'd be awesome.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Just keep track of all of them.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: I uh yes.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: I can hold a lot of water.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: We'll send him the bill after that.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: In my body.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Alright, so you got started magic around the age of seven, is that right?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I uh about that.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I would say I I I keep telling people nine, although I'm not sure if that's a lie.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh please be honest with me though.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: You were single digits at the time.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: As a young man of late single digits, my um it's a rather cliched story, but my uncle showed me some really amazing magic.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, if you like, if you can like if there are magicians watching this, I mean, you know, try to put yourself in this position because you're from a privileged place of being able to know, but to to talk to the people who are not magicians, um, which is probably at least a few of you.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um so my my uncle, he uh is Uncle Kiff, he's technically my grandfather's brother, which is yeah, so like yeah, whatever.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um but he he took a uh coin out and it had it he and he he handed me a handed me a dime and uh an exacto blade with which to well no not like a box cutter to to uh with which to mark the dime.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Kiffy markers exist, and he's like, no, use the knife.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, all right, I'm nine.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I so I marked the dime with a little X with the knife, because they can do that, and then I remembered where the mark was, and he took the and it wasn't elegant or anything like that, but he took the the the coin and he put it in his pocket.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Immediately out of his pocket, instead of holding a coin, he was holding uh a matchbook, uh, or a match box, rather.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it was covered in rubber bands all around it, like this.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: All directions.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, Here, open that up.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I opened it up, and inside that, can you guess what was inside that?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna say the dime.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: No, it was another match box smaller.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Also covered in rubber bands all the way around, every single direction.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: And inside that, I won't make you guess because you'll be wrong.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Fake it, was a little bag with a with a rubber band wrapped around the top of it like this.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: It looked like a like a Santa Claus bag, right?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: And when I took that rubber band, inside the bag was in fact the dime.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it was totally miraculous to me.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, wait, now not only can you kind of like begin to fathom how somebody could maybe get it inside the rubber bandy box, but then like inside another one and then inside a the bag like wrapped around the top like this, it's just insane.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it was really miraculous to me, even though it was done without any like, you know, all those things magicians think are important, uh presentation, finesse, like all that stuff.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was just like purely impossible, right?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: To my little nine-year-old brain.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: And uh To my 41-year-old brain, it's impossible.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right, yes, right.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: It goes like what?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and um, and that's that's that's part of the the the beauty and the curse of of of magic as a as an art form.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: We'll talk about that in a moment, but but the long and short of it is that like a couple weeks or months later, I can't remember, he taught me how he did that.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: And he he showed me the secret.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought it was the coolest thing.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so I went to study more, and by the next family reunion I had something like four or five hours worth of bad but tolerable tolerable material.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it was really, really fun.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was a really interesting uh, you know, it to be honest, every young man has a magic phase.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and just most of them uh to some degree grow out of it.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, I didn't grow out of it, I just kind of pushed harder on it.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: As uh as I got out of high school.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you I'm glad you did.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad I did too.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's working out.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Thank goodness.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: What was the reaction in high school when you because we've all been to high school.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Could it could go one way or the other when you're showing magic as a high school kid to other teenagers?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um this is this is if the magic's good, it's gonna make you friends.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but but good is kind of a relative term.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I think as long as it's fooling and like deeply fooling, it's gonna make you some friends if you're not a jerk.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one of the one of the things that I've um noticed about magic in particular as a as an art form is that it will uh magnify a an already existent personality.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it will not uh make you cool if you're not cool.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, right?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: It will, you know, maybe give people a more of a reason to talk to you or to explore like whether you might be cool or charming or charismatic or or friendly or whatever.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because they're like, oh, impossible thing, that's cool.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: But then you know, it just kind of magnifies your personality.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're like a total dweeb, magic's gonna make you dweebier.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, right, to use a scientific uh your vocabulary is again yes, it's chef's kiss.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and this is nothing against uh my my my dweebs out there.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a bit of a dweeb myself.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Shout out to the dweebs.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Shout out to the dweebs, but you know, you're um so you know it is one of the like I said, that's the the sort of the sort of curse of magic is that when you and this is what I was like alluding to earlier, is like if something's impossible enough, you're gonna impress.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: On some degree, you're gonna impress if something if you if you are are able to accomplish something that appears to be impossible.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: But the simultaneous blessing in curse of magic is that like for magic to happen, it's it's almost I I I can think of a couple of examples where this isn't true, but it's it's uh nearly always required that somebody attribute to you more uh skill in their mind than you actually deserve.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: More more um more praise than you actually deserve.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because we as magicians or as people who have had sort of magic um uh uh phases, right, we can say, okay, well, we can buy like a Svengali deck or something like that, and at the end of the day, depend if you use that thing correctly, you can look like a total card shark, right?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: You can look like somebody who was studied for years, right?
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: And and when you when you when you do the possible thing of finding the card over and over again from what appears to be a shuffled deck, that in the mind of the audience, they're like, well, that must have taken that must have taken ten years.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like a kid's nine years old, how did he practice for 20 years?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um But then when you go and do the impossible thing, which is to, in in this case for a Svengali deck, it's to is the the a common finale is to turn all of the cards into the selected card.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like you've seen this kind of thing before.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um then that like becomes this sort of like mind wipe, like impossibility.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: If you do it effectively, then the person just goes, I don't know what I question everything.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is that is totally reality bending.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm now attributing all of these weird feelings that I have to you, and almost inevitably those the that that sort of soup of weirdness in somebody's mind is gonna end up giving that person more sort of like um, I don't know, what's the word?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh uh it's gonna give them more like gravitas than they than they have earned.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're cheating.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's the point.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: You're cheating.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's the that's the thing.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so uh to to swing this back to the the personality development thing or like the the magnifying thing uh effects that magic has is like, yeah, if you um if you get a really, really great sort of push button effect that is gonna have some level of impossibility to it, then one of the things that a lot of magicians will tend to do is to start to believe the marketing of the people that they're showing the magic to.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they'll be like, they'll be like, okay, let's say, let's say I have a completely like shit presentation, or or like I'm not like charismatic in any way, or I'm not, you know, I haven't learned these sort of like interpersonal skills, but at the end of the day, everyone's running around screaming because the thing was so cool, then I'm then I I I I start to be very tempted to rest comfortably in the idea that, oh, that is a reaction to me, right?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: Not the$50 that I spent on this genius magic trick.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: When did you realize this?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um at what stage in your life of or your career of being a magician?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great question.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh um I realized this uh probably I would say in my late teens.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Where um where i in in my late teens, when I was getting into my twenties, I was starting to um study uh theater uh in a really strong way and I ended up going to theater school in New York uh for an intensive um couple of years at a school called Amda which was um the American Music and Dramatic Academy.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: One of those things where you I would say you get what you give in that kind of situation.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah I thought I had a great time there and man when you go to a place like that and you can't you can't hide behind your the the$50 that you spent at the magic shop.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: You can't hide behind that because those people are people that don't do that.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: And they don't they're not gonna let you do that and they're gonna see through you know they're gonna be like okay the trick was cool but like you know you can't we can't understand you when you speak we you're not smiling for some reason or you know whatever whatever the the soup of lessons they want to teach you is um they're not gonna be like brainwashed by the the trick itself so that's about the time that I started um figuring that out was when we were getting when I was getting like real uh sort of theatrical direction from professionals.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's great it works hand in hand with the show because you you you do one and you also do the other which is phenomenal it's total side note total random thought by the way but I thought about this when during your show you have such incredible facial expressions during the show it's almost Jim Carreyish.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: Jim Carrey has some of the best facial expressions of any performer and I I I saw a lot of that in you and it's not you weren't you weren't goofy expressions.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: They were just your your face lit up your face went down your face you know did this did that and you do the craziest thing with your eyes.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: What's the thing with his eyes?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_03: During his show there's like this crazy intensity that he puts behind them.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh that's just him oh it is okay that's just pure Kent no I know it's it was it's it's something like like if we're in the show you mean like this kind of like maybe chills right there.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's two snorts by the way that's two I got it on the board.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well you know in the we're I'm trying really uh really hard in the show to uh be existing in a world that is congruent with the story that I'm telling you know this and you know it it's it's strange because you'll notice during the show that we're constantly jumping in and out of that thread of storytelling you know and and it's it's it's almost serving the show at this point because there's a I could be criticized by certain magicians in the past who have made this criticism and it it's it's accurate some magicians can you can say they're afraid of their own magic.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so they would do a similar thing where they'll where they'll step out of the show to remind people that it is not uh what's being presented on the like they'll they'll like swing like a pendulum between between um here's the real deal I'm I'm gonna be honest with you for a moment and then we're gonna go back into the into the actual show.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that can be done to that can be done very poorly uh but I think what we're doing in Ghost Stories is probably maybe a really good example of how that can be done well.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Where there are three characters in the show one one is is Kent in the show who's running the narrative basically one is Kent in the show possessed right which is also part of the narrative and then one is Kent as just a guy who you're talking to outside the show but we're still on stage.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: We get like this meta view.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a very it's very weird uh I think it's a weird experience but yeah it's intense for sure.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's um you know like I like it's it's hard to it it's hard to to boil this down into into uh like a it's hard to to do this uh uh compactly but uh in a compact way but the long and short of it is that a lot of those intense stares come from moments where the the the character in the show is really super duper caring about something and is really hyper focused on something.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I find that that particular thing like what does the character care about and what are they focused on and what's catching their attention if you can kind of nail that down then you do and you can make strong decisions in that vein then um in any kind of performance then you're then you're gonna you're gonna have a level of intensity that's really uh intriguing and really interesting to watch.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well said you're interesting when you're interested.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes absolutely yes you you and that's that's in any aspect whether it's performing whether it's you know on a podcast whatever it is.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah so if if for some reason it's like this this like little trinket on the table like if if for some reason like start looking at it right everyone in the room is gonna go what the fuck is about to happen with looking at what right and so so it be yeah it becomes you can really really direct people's attention very strongly in ways that are not in the misdirection books you know when you were uh a young lad getting into it did you give yourself a a name like uh no I didn't have a name no you didn't have a name the Great Wonder or something you've always just been Kent that was that always felt to me a little um I think uh uh you know no when I worked with uh when I worked with uh I did kids' shows for silly Billy for a little while in New York right I I I swore a lot uh during the kids show there's nothing silly about this kid no when I no I I'm a I was a very good kids magician actually it was a lot of fun because you can because you know you get into a place and then you play you play you play something's real as if you're not the one controlling the shit that's happening right the kids fucking love it they go nuts they go nuts like if if you know you know that old coloring book thing that coloring book trick where it's it's like it's it's uh there there's just drawings and then it's all colored and then it's all blank right I don't know that no oh so that's an old coloring book it's a trick it's a similar trick is very easy you know you can find it online whatever but but basically it's kind of in the way that you open it it's like a very simple technique but it works similar to a Svengali deck actually if you know what that how that works.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: But you open the book and it's got all these drawings and you show the kids these drawings and then a lot of people will will just go and uh then do the different sort of positioning and show all of the colors as if they've just magically appeared and then they'll go okay now think about something else or whatever and then they'll show it and it's all gone blank.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: I love that and it's a really cool it's a cool like little magic technique but silly Billy just a just hearing you say silly Billy is my favorite thing ever so hold on I I'm gonna go full circle here for a second then keep on the silly Billy thing because the nickname that I had under silly Billy as a performer my father's name is Kent right so my name when I was a kid was KJ Kent Jr.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so my name under Silly Billy and this I just remember this now was KJ Kajillion.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's what they called me that's three by the way yep that's good KJ Kajillion KJ Kajillion KJ Kajillion and I um I uh uh had suppressed that until now until this very moment it bubbled back up yes yeah I love this it was great and but but so the thing the thing about performing for kids which was really well first of all kids if you do some crap that is supposed to be just like the the like just just magical but just sleight of hand stuff kids are rude you know they don't know they're being rude it's not rude right you're trying to fool them and they're like you didn't you know like if you're a bad magician a kid will tell you right and somebody who you're performing for at a restaurant table might not tell you you know they probably won't actually they just out of common courtesy and professionalism yeah yeah yeah and so the kid will be like I saw that and they don't know they're doing anything wrong because they're not right so this is why like kid kid kids magic is a totally different animal but it's a very sort of theatrical animal and kind of teaches you how to how to create sort of a journey inside of a magic trick.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because one thing that the kids go nuts over is if you can realistically portray that the children are the ones in control when you're actually the one in control.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: So that that coloring book that I was just telling you about and people should absolutely especially if they're into into into doing magic for kids or or uh want to make a career out of it because you absolutely can it's it's it's not that hard.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: Not that hard to make a career out of it.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to do the performance for kids you have to get some experience in that but um but uh they should absolutely read uh silly Billy's book it's called Seriously Silly it's such a good I love that he he's so easy and he's a genius yeah and um and but but the routine was that you show the coloring book as normal but then you give them the power to like to like take colors off of their bodies or like them like like um like or their clothes or whatever and then or they or they take invisible crayons and they they paint the pictures and then you you open it up and it's all colored and then you go and then you go okay now just erase the colors and they they start to they they start to erase and you go like oh no no that's enough no no stop stop stop stop and then they they like as soon as they realize that you don't want them to keep going they they lean into it so hard you know they're like and you got you got it nailed down you know exactly how they're gonna react yeah and then eventually you open it up and it's all blank and you go no and then you're like draw the pictures again the pictures again and they all take out these invisible magic markers and that's so fun.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it's crazy how um how much kids' magic will teach you to like create sort of a a journey inside of the trick which and you could keep that shit going for like 40 minutes if they'd let you yeah you know you're like if if you could if you could have the energy to do it the kids will just keep doing it.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure you're having fun doing it too they're having fun so much fun.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's stupid fun it's not it's not hard in the sense of like um the techniques the techniques are very easy but um the like the timing and all that stuff it's so different than performing for adults but adults also in appreciate that kind of thing but not in sort of the the more kiddish context of the colouring book or whatever.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know adults um yeah that's fair.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah they do like to to sort of sit back and relax and sort of watch the journey of the trick but the journey is the important part you know a lot of times uh especially in the in the to bring it back to ghost stories there's a there's a routine with um with there's a card trick right and it's one of the few times that you get to see the character be sort of joyful and happy in the in in the show and it's one of the few times that somebody's on stage and there's a lot of jokes happening and a lot of control is in that person's hands.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah you know and I've done the same type of thing with that routine because I'm in such control of the room during that show we're you know every inch of that room feels like it's in in my grasp or that's what I'm going for.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: And but then once this person comes up if anyone if any magicians out there do do a trick where uh you uh you have two decks of cards and you have a a bell in between um you know the routine but maybe maybe there's other you know any anything like this where you're where one person you're you're having them do the same thing that you do you're you know they're playing a game of like copycat or whatever and uh they like in in my version of that I'm dropping the cards and I'll drop I'm dropping the cards intentionally if you've seen the show multiple times you you know that but but this person doesn't know that and I've just ostensibly read the minds of everyone in the room in a very aggressive way and now if I get the right person they're gonna drop the cards too and when they do that I'm like yes we're in you got him we're in golden yes because now that person's able to take a little bit of the power back yes right they're able to make fun of me and in doing that it's like oh thank God some of the pressure's off me now when they do that the audience is like oh it's funny right oh he's not gonna be mad yeah because the guy made fun of him this is a good thing right and so so people like by that by that time people are starting to learn how to behave in the room sure which is interesting because sometimes they don't know for the first 30 minutes how much is but anyway sorry I've been talking for a long time listen I'm engaged I am hooked on every word you're saying it's gonna be our first six hour podcast this is part one of five mini series not a snort you snort you snort goddammit you didn't do it you can't do it on the queue I don't know why um I mean I'm sure I could try but it probably wouldn't sound it's good yeah we we don't want that how much is how much of the uh of of what you do is part of the the the mentalism side of it because I feel like there's obviously there's magic there's you know diversions but do you feel like there's a healthy amount of the mentalism aspect of it as well in what you do or just also sorry I'm I need to interrupt can you explain the difference between like magic and mentalism because I like I don't know the difference in definitions before you answer Andrew's question.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: Actually you know what would be interesting is to have Andrew explain the difference and see if I if I vibe with it.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's an excellent question.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what I would love to do that but I feel like I wouldn't do it enough justice.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: No I no I no I'm actually not doing a bit here like oh this is really you well so I have my answer.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing is that um my answer is a little pithy to the to the mentalism community and I you know you're not a pure lay person because you're you're I mean you're in Las Vegas seen a lot of magic shows you saw my show twice um and you know that term right so I but I'm interested in in knowing what your uh I would say being able to understand more than what's said uh a lot of the nonverbal communication being involved uh the reactions based on certain things that are happening or have said um and then even uh guiding them guiding the other person along to a point where you want them to be without them actually thinking about it.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: Not necessarily manipulation but flirting with manipulation I would say.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: So um so that's a that's a that's a really uh there are certainly mentalism effects that that that walk that line okay um and they are the ones that are not reliable.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know when you see like what you're well is what you've just been describing is is something along the lines of what the mentalist TV show was dramatizing.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right and the the for me and this is um I just made a post about this the other day that uh I make a lot of enemies on the internet uh we love that we love that well it's hard because because I um uh I don't know I try to be clinical with with my speech as much as I can anyway and a lot of people uh have have some challenges um defending their opinions in ways that are clear and or even attacking my opinions in ways that are clear and concise and uh have anything to do with actual logic.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like when people say logic most of the time what they mean is common sense.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that's common sense to them and that's meaningless to me.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm talking about internal critiques.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: So um I'm sorry I'm already circling the drain on this answer but let me just give you the straightforward answer.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: You got me hooked yeah well reel me in baby post so I'll back it up the post that I made was that um mentalism is as much mind reading as coin magic is alchemy and that is true right one imagine a world now where or or as much psychological manipulation as coin magic is alchemy.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and to a degree that's actually incorrect because on some level you can have mentalism effects that are somewhat akin to psychological manipulation or intuition or whatever like if I just guess at something and you say yeah that's it and I can go I knew that right and then that would be a cool experience for both of us right uh and that would technically fall under the category of mentalism.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: I could guide you to uh something with you not knowing that I'm guiding you there.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: And um you know there's a very there's a a lot of very famous mentalists who do this kind of thing.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: And and and I I do a a tiny tiny bit of that in the show um particularly this moment near the end.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: That is one of those types of things.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now um and we won't reveal that because that is something that is the same every time.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: But um but the the great majority of mentalism is just magic tricks that look like mind reading.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: And just like the great majority of coin magic is just like if you're changing a silver coin to a gold coin that's not alchemy right it's magic tricks that look like I mean don't look like alchemy I suppose but but you know they like the the parallel is there.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think people understand the the flavor of what I'm getting at here.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so you know I'm not trying to make like a perfectly parallel logical case here but um when I define mentalism I just define it as a subsidiary of magic or as a subcategory of magic that looks like mind reading using similar techniques uh similar or the same to be honest.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like um if I were to take a you know uh have you select a playing card and then I were to do a very convincing sort of body language read or a psychic read I just turned 16.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there's KJ there he is TJ Kajillion guys if I were to have you select a playing card and then I'll wait okay we're good and we're back and then we're back no if I were to have you select a playing card and then I were to to you know have that knowledge either before you selected it or after you whatever at whatever point I got the knowledge right then I sort of pretend to extract that from you via your body language piece by piece first the color then the suit whatever that would be a very good mentalism effect and um and uh yeah I mean it would just be the same exact technique as magic and the great majority of mentalism is in that category.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: And um there are there are certainly one of the challenges is that mentalism is is um like bleeds into copying things like cold reading a la your psychics like John Edward or whatever or hot reading like that too.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean how do you get how do you how did you get how do you know my mother's name was blah well how did you buy a ticket?
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well my with my credit card of course but that's irrelevant.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's like okay so but but mentalism certainly bleeds into that and because that is sort of what it's replicating.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: But as as a as a as a friend of mine um uh Mark Lewis who got a golden buzzer on uh on America's got talent America's got talent nice um he's the best Svengali pitch man you've ever seen uh he's he's amazing but he's also a and I call him a friend because we have great banter online I mean I think he's just kind of like a uh a silly man but he's he's awesome he's he's funny he's uh he's into the psychic thing he's into the real psychic fairs you know and he'll go to these things and he'll be like you'll never see a mentalist technique at these places you'll never see it and you'll always see people who are like flitting on the the sort of vagueties of or just enough is that a real word?
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know you know what you know what I meant.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: I trust you we keep it uh Julie keep that in please okay keep it in the there they're they're dancing on the edges you know of these things that are just enough for the person to be like yes yes I connect it we're a mentalist will you'll he'll tell you what the three digit number that you just wrote down in your pocket is and whatever the method is for that that's way too direct to be a real psychic but um but it does the mentalism field does bleed into these fields and obviously it's inspired by these fields and it's like well what if I could do that but like like super duper and real and it's like okay well I have all these magic techniques I can do it but like just lie and that's cool and then I can just say the three digit number that you wrote down or the name of your first pet or whatever.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so so mentalism because we got those techniques and I don't I'm kind of talking about because I don't know the actual history of this but I can see how how we now want to bleed further into the psychic world and do more um like more uh esoterica sure you know and and also now it's like well wait people are believing me so why should I Why should I tell them I'm a magician?
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: And now, you know, simply saying that mentalism is a form of magic becomes a little less um cut and dry.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because now you're you're you're because mentalism is drawing a drawing a line between um knowing what card you selected and and and setting up a booth at a psychic fair to do readings because some mentalist taught you how to do readings, because it's drawing that line and there is a there is a bridge there now, it becomes this really weird gray area between direct technique that is related directly to magic and manipulation.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I I would say that the minute it falls over into having to be having people actually believe in the esoterica stuff, now you're it's hard to call yourself a mentalist at that point, even if you're using mentalist techniques.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: I would just say that you're getting into the territory of fraud?
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't that actually leads to my next question because now that you have experience on both sides of it and you're you're more aware of it than the average Joe, has that ever do you I mean I'm assuming you leave it at the door once you're out in civilization, but are you has it changed the way you communicate with others or has it changed any relationships in your life knowing that you are a lot more well versed in I I don't want to say manipulation, but just are you more well versed in understanding things that people wouldn't notice?
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, this is this is the thing that I want to be uh be clear about before I even address that that answer.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because I I'm uh man, I have a tendency to circle the drain on stuff and I'm circle it.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well we'll we'll we'll keep doing that.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so so um uh keep that question in mind because I'm gonna ask you to repeat it.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: Go ahead.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: But I have to back up because um to answer the question directly from the to answer the last question directly, now that I've given so much context, the you're like how much of the show is mentalism versus magic, yeah.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: That was the first question where I had you give the give the your excellence view on on uh on what the difference is.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, it's all magic.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh there there he is again.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's all magic because um I I don't like to draw that distinction, and I don't like I used to, but I don't like anymore to have people believing anything about my theatrical lie when they leave.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: And um at the very least, what I can say is something that has been effective for me is uh, you know, never never telling anyone else what to do, just doing it running internal consistency checks on whether or not they ought to have a problem with this kind of thing.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um but there's uh for me, the very first step for me was being honest with people when I was off stage, right?
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: Not being honest to the degree where I tell them what the secret is, because that's no fun.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: But telling them yes, there is a secret, and it is not body language reading, and it is not intuition.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: If I guess at some like I'm I'm I'm I don't have the hubris to say like what is and is not true about this the universe in a spiritual or esoteric way, but I certainly don't have the the chutzpah to say that I am accessing that during my show if I have a good guess.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: You make it a very good point to to state that or draw that ethical line there.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: Did something happen in the past that was like, you know what, I want to flip that switch and make sure that I emphasize that?
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: Or is this just something that you saw in the industry and you're like, you know what, I I want to put my foot down and make sure that this is my stance on it?
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is an ongoing debate in the magic community um because people think that uh that you're this is something called a disclaimer, basically.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: For those who are not magicians, this is something called a disclaimer where people are are um interested in some magicians or mentalists who are interested in this kind of material, they will say something to disassociate themselves from the lie and to try and associate themselves with the truth.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the long that's kind of the long and short of it, is they'll take like 30 seconds or a minute out of their show and be like, hey, by the way, um, I'm not a psychic, you know, and uh blah blah blah, like whatever the thing is.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: And the the argument from the the side of the anti-disclaimer people is like, and it's valid, it's a valid argument, is uh I can't remember if it's a valid or a sound argument.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's valid.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: But it's something like this it goes, um it's like, why should I take a minute to five minutes out of my show to explain something to people that number one, they should already know.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: And number two, if they don't already know it, they're not gonna listen to it anyway, if they're like a believer or whatever.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: And number three, um, will almost certainly make my show worse, right?
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because it because it will just take them out of the theater of the thing.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that makes perfect sense to me.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really, really um, I might say that's a good argument.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um and for most people, I think that argument uh is a good place to start.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um the experience that I had, which leads me away from that argument, which answers those questions for me, is that when I was doing a purely psychological show, I was doing a purely psychological, like I'm doing, I have designed a show.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: Still ghost stories or no, no, it was a different, it was a differ different show.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was more of a corporate show.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um they'd hire me to come in and do, you know, corporate uh corporate entertainment, basically.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I would do a show and it would it would be designed top to bottom to make people believe that I was uh Sherlock Holmes, basically.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: That I was reading their body language, I was taking all their clues, doing all this stuff when really I was just looking at the piece of paper when they weren't looking.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was the that's the secret, and it's not like the secret, but it's like one of them, you know?
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: Gotta get the information somehow.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um but uh but the secret, the the the question is when, and you'll never see it, which is the cool thing.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but um but you know, after those shows where it was designed to make people believe uh that I was like a Sherlock Holmes character, every time I got the I got the distinct sense in my body, and not at the beginning, but as I was getting really good at it, and as and as the show was getting really convincing, every time I started to get the sense that people were uh walking out of my show worse off than they walk than they were.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: Really.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they were dumber for having seen me perform.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's that's a wild feeling to have.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's a cynical thing to say, and it's a wild feeling to have, but yeah, I was like, they didn't just watch Hamlet, they watched, they watched a documentary.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like they watched what they are they are now under the impression either as an aggregate or uh or at least as as a couple of individuals.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and if if five people come up to me and say, Oh shit, well, I I didn't think that was possible, but now I'm like all in.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like what do I what do I read?
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what do I do, you know, to like learn more about this?
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: And my answer used to be like, well, you know, years of study, and you can research things like NLP and hypnosis and suggestion.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, oh my god, can my head get any farther up my own ass?
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like honestly, like, like I would just like straightforwardly lie to them about what was happening in the show and what like field of study they would go into in order to learn more about what they saw.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it was just like it felt so gross, it felt so gross.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and um like on some level, I was like, oh, well, my peers all think this is okay.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: So like this is cool.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, I've reached a level where like this is cool, this is fine.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it just wasn't fine, you know.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: It like eventually it just crossed my own personal ethical threshold where I was like, no, this is just I'm just a fraud.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's fair.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like I like I have I have the I have the time in my show where I say I'm not a psychic.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: I use a combination of psychological techniques and uh NLP and body language reading.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_00: I read people, you know, that kind of thing.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: And also maybe there's a magic technique or two in there, but you know, don't focus on that.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and it it just it would just it was just so gross.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it was it was gross not because uh it was gross because something about the con something about the audience I was like, there are a thousand variables in each of these things.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're a performer who says something like that and it's not gross to you, sure, because you're not getting that same kind of feedback that I was getting, fine.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_00: My goal whenever I'm helping magicians is to make it so that they could start a cult, yeah, right, and then they start to feel it, right?
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then they go, Oh, I get it.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: I should, I should address this somehow.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting, right?
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's like whenever I'm helping magicians like improve their shows or make their shows more believable, like I want people to, in the show, be completely invested in the character and believe it a hundred percent.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's what I want.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_00: I want them to be invested.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, but yeah, so so then after the psychological thing where I was like, this is not good, uh, I I ditched it completely.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: I went over to the psychic side and I just started doing psychic shows.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I was like, surely I'm not gonna cause non-believers to become believers in this case.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: And same shit, man.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: Same?
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: Same shit.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like, it was like, you know, I mean, but it's fence sitters.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like the stark like skeptics, uh-huh.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's the fence sitters.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you're getting the impression that the needle is moving in the wrong direction in the aggregate, then and you feel some kind of principled opposition to miseducation, then you ought, based on those previous statements, those premises, then you ought to do something about it.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing that you could do is stop doing it.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and one thing that you could do is explore ways to help people understand the actual nature of what's going on.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really what I care about.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care about the two minutes that you set aside to say something strange that's gonna fuck up your show, right?
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_00: I care about um all of the possible variables that you could put into a situation that would start providing you with the with the audience feedback at the end of the show that's going to make you feel good about what you did and not bad about what you did.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt bad about what I did, so I kept changing it.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: And at this moment, I feel good about what I do.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you made the stance, and I'm glad you're able to say, you know what, I'm gonna change it, and this is the way it's gonna go.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's worked out.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like it, I can imagine so many people being too afraid that it'll affect the bottom line, it affects their career, it affects the trajectory, it affects whatever it is that it is that they affect.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, you you're you're able to do that and you do it in a way, and it's you, you, you've turned into something that I feel like is you know fair, honest, but still extremely entertaining.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean that's that's all I'm going for.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I actually don't want people, it's so funny because when people say you want to change people's beliefs, I'm like, I actually don't.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care about changing their beliefs.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: I care about not changing their beliefs.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like the reason that I'm saying something, the reason that I'm pushing back against against what they might naturally assume based on what they see in the room, is because their beliefs are shifting in the room to some degree, anyway.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: Or at least that's where they're reporting to me.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so my pushback against that is to try to get them back to neutral, back to the place where they came in, right?
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so so those who those who say, Oh, I let them decide, but then play, but then give them provide them 90 minutes of proof that psychic ability is real or whatever, um, that is uh that is not letting them decide.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it's kind of, but you know what I mean.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_00: Have you been hypnotized before?
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_00: Have I been hypnotized before?
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't think so.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: No?
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think so.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: Although it depends on how you're defining hypnosis.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because I can ask two hypnotists what hypnosis is, and I'll get five different answers five different times.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I've been, I mean, I I I'll tell you what, I'll tell you my experience.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: I had a it was a restaurant that we had.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: It was like a Mediterranean tapa style restaurant.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was fun, outgoing.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_01: We had you know people painting there while you're eating, we had you know belly dancers there, we had magicians walk around, do like close, close magic.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I was a manager at the time, and we invited uh hypnotists to come on and try out.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so we went into the office, and this is the first time we wanted to make sure he was legit.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll tell you what, he I was aware of everything that happened, but I was doing things that he told me to do, but I didn't have that like thought in my mind of I can control this or not.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_01: It was more along the lines if he told me to do it, I'm gonna do it.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was tell me a story about I talked about how I was a ninja in the hills of Japan or something like that.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it it was it was a weird feeling.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: It was like this the part of where you're so tired that you're like part asleep and part awake, but I was aware of everything around me, but I was just under his control.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was a weird feeling.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then I woke up and I felt like I had the best night's sleep I've ever had because I felt so refreshed.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, when you were done?
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: When I was done.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_01: He told me to wake up and I woke up and I would it was like a jolt of energy through my veins.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_00: I I think there was certainly something to um clinical hypnosis uh or or even or even entertainment hypnosis on a one-on-one basis like that.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, if you're if you're a I I I one thing I do know for sure is that if you're if you're a like a Vegas hypnotist or like that kind of that that type of animal, the hypnosis show kind of thing, where you have a lot of chairs on the stage and you're you know, you're doing a lot of it seems it's those those environments seem uh indistinguishable to me from something like social pressure uh or um you know, I mean, whenever I dig down into it with a hypnotist, I'm like, and and how do we verify that claim you just made?
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and but I know that when you uh if you're gonna do a a magic routine and you just need someone to uh pay close attention uh for a moment, then uh and and it's spooky, then a a hypnotic induction is a really cool thing to do.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, regardless of whether it works or not.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like in a in a stage hypnosis setting, I don't actually care if that person is hypnotized or if they are uh totally faking it.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um but one of the nice things actually, if if I get the sense that they're faking it, uh that is really good, actually, for that particular part of my show that you're thinking of.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh because the if somebody is like if I if I find someone who's adorned with beads and uh wearing big jangling earrings and and that person just goes out when I when I sit them down, I'm like, ah fuck, they're not gonna actually notice when I do the thing.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_00: They're not gonna notice the thing I need them to notice in order to answer these questions correctly.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like there's a routine in the show where like somebody gets hypnotized and it doesn't matter if they're hypnotized or not, but it looks really cool when they are, right?
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_00: But if they go under and then they need to be able to pay attention.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_00: And if they can't pay attention, oh man, it goes bad.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_00: It goes bad because they don't know they they don't know how to answer those questions.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_01: How do you handle it?
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because you have, like I said, a very intimate show.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_01: And being that it's how many people in there in a room at once?
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_01: 20?
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh 25?
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, actually, we expanded the seating a little bit.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_00: We can fit 40 in there if we pack them in.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: So let's say 40 people and compared to like when you go see Penn and Teller, who are at uh a venue, like it's it's in, you know, there's over a hundred seats there.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh with Penn and Pennsylvania.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_00: 7-Eleven.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_01: When with Penn and Teller, like if you go there and you have you're sitting next to somebody that's loud and noisy, it's gonna you know affect you, but it's not gonna affect everybody in the room.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas with you, if there is somebody, and there was one or two people there that you know did make a little bit of a disruption, and it affected a majority of the people there because it's it's such an intimate setting, like I said.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_01: But again, you handled it wonderfully while still maintaining that experience and not taking the uh us out of it.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_01: But when somebody is being disruptive, how do you handle it carefully, I'm assuming?
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well, at first I handle it in uh in character.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like you're in my house, you know, like and it's and it's like a almost a respect thing, and it's like I can hear you, you know I can hear you, right?
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like eventually it's like um it gets more and more aggressive.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is not a polite character, like you're there to serve a purpose for that character, right?
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_00: And and you are um like it's not, I mean, it's a fun show to be a part of, it's an immersive show, but your role in the show is effectively as food for the for the evil spirits.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_00: I know that sounds so weird out of context.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds so weird, but from you it's just it's normal.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, in my in in the the internal monologue is that the the people there, they've been invited there, right?
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_00: And they they they come, they they come to experience this thing, but ultimately the underlying reason is so that I can see her again.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, and that's why you're here.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_00: You're here to feed the evil ones such that they can go retrieve her, right?
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's the your purpose is done after the first couple of minutes.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and so I no longer have to be nice to you.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_00: You're here for the ride.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, like in that world, to stay in that world is not polite.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and and so I so I want people to get it.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I've found a I've found a way to like you, it's it's a little aggressive at first, but like I will kind of stop the show and like look at someone and just wait for them to stop talking and then be like or depending on how long, depending on how I mean depending on how froggy I'm feeling.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_01: You get a feel for it too.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be a little different every time.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_00: But basically, the the I've had um I've had justifiable but regrettable interactions in the past because I haven't taken a moment to just stop the show and be real with someone it with the outside of character character.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, because they don't get it sometimes, right?
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_00: They don't lose my mind.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_00: These are adults.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_00: These are adults, but sometimes, I mean, they come to it, they're like I said, we're selling a vibe.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_00: So they're coming to this show called Ghost Stories.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's we're selling a vibe.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_00: They think maybe I don't know how they think this, because you can't you can't buy a ticket without encountering the words magic show like a dozen times.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes they don't think that it's interactive, they don't think it's a magic show, they don't think it's this, that, or the other thing, and and they they they have no expectations, but they're like ghost stories, we're probably just hearing ghost stories.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so they buy a VIP seat and they're sitting in the front row and they've just taken like a shitload of mushrooms, right?
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like they can't handle themselves, or they've taken you know, four shots of tequila because they want to be a little fucked up for this, or like whatever it is.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, McBride calls this a drinking crowd, not a thinking.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's a thinking show for a drinking crowd.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I like that.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he'll he'll say you've got two kinds of crowds, you've got drinking crowds and thinking crowds.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_00: And uh McBride uh runs a mist uh a magic school here in Las Vegas, the magic and mystery school, and it's uh it's a wonderful experience, a wonderful, like totally immersive, kind of like a I mean, I don't think this is denigrating it at all, but it's like a like a like a real life hogwarts.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you go in there and you spend um two or three days and it get completely immersed in learning professional magic in this absolutely astonishingly beautiful house that he's put together with all these ancient artifacts, and it's really crazy, like you step into another world.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so check out McBride's magic and mystery school.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_01: Shout out to McBride's.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_00: Shout out to McBride.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but he would call this a drinking audience, and he said that we're pulling off a thinking show for a drinking audience, which is good.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's a high compliment from McBride.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_00: Love that.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_00: But the the uh but the way that I've settled into doing this now is I'll give them several warning shots.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like two or three warning shots, then I'll up the aggression.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_00: And once the aggression reaches like 60 or 70 percent, like before the point where I have to raise my voice severely at them, and I will do that, but Before we do that, I'll just break the character.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'll break the show and be like, okay, we gotta stop for a second, guys.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I gotta tell you, the guy that's getting aggressive with you, that's not me.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_00: But we are in a show here, and like none of these people paid to hear you talk.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, none of them.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that you paid to be here, and that's totally cool.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you're cool.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think you're cool.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um when I'm doing the show though, ooh man, like I don't think you're cool.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, we could totally be friends after this if like you just like shut the fuck up for like a little bit, for like a minute, and like that's kind of you know, to to whatever that's a very sarcastic take on to make you laugh.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_00: But uh sometimes I'll do an incredibly sincere take on it and be like, hey, we're all here to have a good time, and and I appreciate that you are, but like that's fair, but like I gotta ask you at this point because there does come a point where I have to protect the the ticket purchase of all of these people who can also hear you talking.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_00: So um if you could just you can totally talk, just like just do it out there, right?
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's totally cool.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's uh that's the best you can do.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's the best you can do.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_01: Given the circumstances, the best you can do.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_00: If they keep going and we keep we get to 80 or 90 percent, then it's it's manager time.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, that's raise the aggression until they get offended enough to leave, or it's manager time.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's unfortunate.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is it's unfortunate, but it's kind of fun sometimes.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's the way it is.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_01: Let me tell you something.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_01: If I wasn't with the team, I would have taken an ungodly amount of edibles before I went to your show.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you would not have been alone.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_01: I had to be mature, professional, and respectful to the team, but just no, I would have been very high on edibles.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um you mentioned a few times actually that you are helping other magicians that are up and coming.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_01: Can you kind of elaborate a little bit more on that?
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so like um I started a YouTube channel, very small right now, but it's got uh, you know, we're we're uh putting up interviews with magicians, it's consultation uh interviews about their shows and about how to add more theatricality or more um or or or like sell tickets or stuff like that.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh also just like general performance advice and uh philosophical.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of it is philosophical right now around this sort of disclaimer idea, around around the ethics around mentalism.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh, you know, alongside that I'm also doing uh like private consultations with people.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_00: I started doing this um around the pandemic, you know, uh 2020, and everything was on Zoom, and now all of a sudden uh I've got I had a pretty good corporate magic career before that.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I like people who didn't have it and they were working on their Zoom shows or they were preparing for when eventually we could start gathering again.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_00: They um they they were contacting me and asking, like, hey, what do I what do I do to to jump back into corporate as soon as the doors open?
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Well, here's what you do.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_00: And we we would uh I would do consultations with them, and that's how I survived the pandemic is by uh uh teaching mag teaching magicians not how to magici, because they they do that well enough on their own, but um adding some theatricality to their Zoom shows for sure, but then um then really going in deep with them on what what they need and what systems they need in place in order to do well in the corporate world, which uh now a lot of that is changing because of AI.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_00: But it's it's a really cool, interesting time.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_01: Has AI affected you in your career at all?
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or not?
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't think so.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think so.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's one of those things that will um I don't know.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_00: I I I I don't actually know how I I think one thing that's really um going to be have you heard of the dark internet theory?
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard of the dark internet, uh the deep web.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_00: No, not the deep web, the dark internet theory.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_00: This is really cool.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know where this came from, but AI is gonna start to make this closer to reality.
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if it'll ever happen, but the idea is that is that eventually down the line, with the addition of more and more fake people on the internet.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think I know where you're going with this.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_00: It will be nearly impossible to find another real person on the internet.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Nearly impossible.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_00: As the amount of fake people grows, the distance between you and everyone else will also grow.
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then it will you will just be standing in the center of a desert, right?
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_00: A desert full of billboards, you know, in when you go online.
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um that's really interesting.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_00: It could be true, it could be false, but ultimately the internet as a tool to bring us all together and to to sort of uh globalize will be and connect people, will be a thing that will just we'll all be we'll be closer in real life than we will be online.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be almost impossible to find anyone online.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I hate everything about this.
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's it's interesting.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it might it it might not be the case, and you know, maybe maybe through like um some kind of blockchain thing, we can like, you know, you can have an identity online and be like, this was really me, because it's on my blockchain or something like that.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh me pretending to know what these tech words mean.
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh sounds about right.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_00: But um, but you know, and maybe maybe this stuff will counter it as it goes and as it grows.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I think as this happens, and as as the world gets more and more AI-ified, and as the world gets more and more digital and and everything, people will begin to sort of crave real experiences more.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_00: I hope so.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_00: And the the the the type of experience that we're going for at Mandalay at the 1923 Speakeasy with the Ghost Story show is a see how I plugged everything.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_00: That was nicely done.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_01: You're a smooth you're a pro.
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_00: That was smooth.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_00: You've done this before.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh those things will be uh will they'll be more sought after, those experiences.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_00: And things like the big theater shows that you were talking about a moment ago will um I don't necessarily think they'll start to struggle because they've got all the all the power in the world, you know.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_00: But but I mean I I like to think that people will be like, okay, let's go to Vegas and see Ka, but then let's what else are we gonna do?
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, this looks really cool, and then they go into something where there's only 20 or 30 people, you know, something something that's well-rounded and good.
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, not not to say anything about our little, you know, uh about our backroom variety shows or anything like that, but uh but you know, I want to see a lot of really special um smaller experiences crop up.
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_00: And there are some in town for sure.
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_00: It you know, what used to be in the space that that I'm in, literally what used to be in that space is the magician's study.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the magician study used to be literally in that room, and that is awesome to me.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_00: That is so cool.
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's another one of those things where it's a really cool little like um like intimate experience.
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you know, and uh and yeah, I I would like to see more of those crop up.
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Do you I think they will.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel that with everything being online now, and it it's do you feel like it's harder to create new tricks or new magic with how transparent the digital world has made everything?
• 1:13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Harder to create new tricks and new magic.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um or is it pretty much the same as it's always been?
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a there's a lot of reinventing the wheel and magic.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're like somebody's like magic tends to evolve uh fairly slowly, like like piece by piece rather than in in big leaps.
• 1:13:23
  SPEAKER_00: There there are once in a while someone comes out with like a big brand new illusion, but most of the time I would say the great majority of the time these these things are increments of iterations of things with with a little touch or a little, you know, a new dressing or a new you know, some modeled after something else.
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so but w one thing that's uh interesting in the magic world is uh you know, we used to say we used to say uh they don't know what the name they don't know what the trick is called, so they can't figure it out.
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_00: But now you can just tell the oracle what you saw, right?
• 1:14:05
  SPEAKER_00: The oracle.
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean.
• 1:14:09
  SPEAKER_00: I do know what you mean.
• 1:14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can be like, well, here's the analogy.
• 1:14:13
  SPEAKER_00: You can be like, what's that like what's that Star Wars like Star Trek movie with the little like furry guys, I think, maybe, and they they caught the uh uh uh they did a thing with a Tin Man, I think, and they'll be like, oh no, that's Star Wars, and you're talking about Return of the Jedi, right?
• 1:14:35
  SPEAKER_00: You're talking about the ewaks and that they the the internet will answer that question for you, and that's insane to me.
• 1:14:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's it's it's weird, it's a weird time because because now people can just talk into the ether and get an answer about their experience, and magic is is in a weird place because it kind of relies on on secrets to some degree.
• 1:14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um but uh you know I I like to think that those even if somebody were to have sort of a general knowledge of how magic works and and a general knowledge of of the secrets that might be in play, that they would still come to a show like Ghost Stories and experience something that is seemingly impossible, at least in the moment, you know?
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_01: You with that Star Wars poll, I see you're also a man of culture, so well done.
• 1:15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you tip your fedora at me.
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_00: Me and my neckbeard.
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 1:15:32
  SPEAKER_00: ChatGPT goes, um actually.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 1:15:39
  SPEAKER_00: So like yeah, I was looking at the posters behind you, they're awesome.
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you.
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_00: But um, but yeah, like you can just just I mean, I don't want to I don't want to give away like every magician's secrets here, but like, yeah, you can just say what happened into the internet now, and it will come back to you with like a direction at least.
• 1:15:58
  SPEAKER_01: When was the last time that there was a trick or somebody did something that was that big a leap, opposite of the small little iteration?
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh god, I'm not a I'm I'm not like plugged into the magic world uh in terms of like the new stuff or the new inventions in any way.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um or a thing that that that comes to your mind, if if there's in the history of magic, has there ever been a leap that's been like wow, that's from even from a professional like myself, that's a huge leap from where we were to where it is now.
• 1:16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Would you say like Copperfield would would he be?
• 1:16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Book, yeah.
• 1:16:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I mean Copperfield has uh successfully done that m I think many times, you know.
• 1:16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like his uh the televised specials that he used to run back in what was the 90s and 2000s, I guess, uh was uh unmatched.
• 1:16:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's incredible.
• 1:16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_00: I like that I to divert away from the question because I don't have a great answer for it.
• 1:16:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
• 1:16:55
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate the honesty.
• 1:16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, well, it's you know, I I don't because I'd have to really sit and think about it and be like, okay, what feels big to me, and then is that an iteration of something else?
• 1:17:06
  SPEAKER_00: And that's tough.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, some things that felt big to me, but they felt big to me as a kid because I was I was watching syndicated network television talk about them constantly as if they were the next big thing.
• 1:17:20
  SPEAKER_00: But the truth of the matter might be that someone was using a similar levitation or something like that in a touring show that never got on television.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't know.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I actually don't know.
• 1:17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh but Copperfield obviously is like huge, and so it and you know, Chris Angel obviously is is like Julie loves Chris Angel, but yeah, he's he's amazing.
• 1:17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like shout out Chris Angel.
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Shout out Chris Angel, shout out to Chris Angel.
• 1:17:47
  SPEAKER_00: The show's really good, you know.
• 1:17:48
  SPEAKER_00: The show's like I actually I recommend the show uh quite a bit to people.
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh but uh yeah, I mean, big shifts in the magic world, I mean, especially in the mentalism world, we were talking about this earlier.
• 1:18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, people have like around the time that Darren Brown in the UK started to become really famous, a lot of mentalists who were learning shifted or who were beginning, shifted into that like pseudo-psychological explanation, you know, where they were like, okay, I'm sh I'm I'm effectively like a detective.
• 1:18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah now.
• 1:18:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm no longer a psychic, I'm a detective.
• 1:18:25
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm gonna be ethical by saying that I'm not psychic, but really that's like part of the greater deception because that's just gonna lead people deeper into the detective line, right?
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_00: Into the detective groove.
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so I keep pushing this carpet forward.
• 1:18:40
  SPEAKER_00: You're good.
• 1:18:40
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm fuck that carpet.
• 1:18:43
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't even like that carpet, anyways.
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_01: So you like Delray too, though, right?
• 1:18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Del oh Del Ray is one of my favorite magicians.
• 1:18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:18:51
  SPEAKER_00: This stuff is awesome.
• 1:18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Which is it's incredible because he Did you ever you watch Del Rey?
• 1:18:55
  SPEAKER_01: I I've seen Delray, yeah.
• 1:18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, did you not not not in person, obviously?
• 1:19:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's my that's my trick.
• 1:19:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm actually a hundred something years old.
• 1:19:03
  SPEAKER_01: I moisturize and I drink a lot of water.
• 1:19:06
  SPEAKER_01: No, but I like I I I've seen the the uh people reenact what he's done, and I I I've read a lot about him.
• 1:19:15
  SPEAKER_01: She's done a tremendous amount of research on you, uh, and so she got me hooked on the Del Rey thing, too.
• 1:19:20
  SPEAKER_01: What what does that look for?
• 1:19:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's more water.
• 1:19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Sweet.
• 1:19:27
  unknown: Sweet.
• 1:19:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm good, I'm good.
• 1:19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:19:31
  unknown: Sorry, I was waiting for you to stop talking so I didn't have to.
• 1:19:34
  SPEAKER_01: Listen, we're knee deep in conversation.
• 1:19:36
  SPEAKER_00: Waiting for us to stop talking.
• 1:19:37
  SPEAKER_01: We're flowing.
• 1:19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:19:38
  SPEAKER_00: You might starve to death.
• 1:19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh why Del Rey though?
• 1:19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh oh, I just love his attitude.
• 1:19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like every like everything, he seems so comfortable.
• 1:19:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he's not he's like he would do things, of course, that like were very technically complex on some degree, but but he would take something really, really small and just make it into a whole thing.
• 1:19:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like this, the one line that always comes to my mind, which kind of like sums up Del Rey's attitude in my mind, was um when when he's he's he's doing this particular trick and he's like, You won't catch me.
• 1:20:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I want you to catch me here.
• 1:20:12
  SPEAKER_00: And he would take out, he'd be like, Here's here's a$20 bill.
• 1:20:15
  SPEAKER_00: If you catch me, you can you can have the 20.
• 1:20:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, it's so old and wrinkled.
• 1:20:19
  SPEAKER_00: I've been using the same one for 15 years.
• 1:20:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and that is such a that you like, yeah.
• 1:20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's such a mmm, you know, it's aggressive, it's cool.
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 1:20:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's cocky, a little cocky.
• 1:20:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's cocky, yeah.
• 1:20:31
  SPEAKER_00: I like and and you know, it it just it's it's perfectly congruent with everything that you're seeing about this person.
• 1:20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, like another person like that right now is uh he's he's incredibly well known on the internet, is Jason Ladani.
• 1:20:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, right?
• 1:20:43
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have He's very cocky, yeah, he's amazing though.
• 1:20:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's so good.
• 1:20:47
  SPEAKER_01: He backs it up.
• 1:20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he said he backs it up.
• 1:20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he backs it up.
• 1:20:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the the videos are incredible, you know.
• 1:20:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just this amazing work.
• 1:20:54
  SPEAKER_00: And he's doing, you know, he's a student of uh Darwin Ortiz, and who was who was another um magician in that sort of the the that gambly vein and the card card shark vein.
• 1:21:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:21:08
  SPEAKER_00: And um who wrote amazing books by the way.
• 1:21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Darwin Ortiz wrote great books on that.
• 1:21:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but yeah, Jason is is taken uh has taken it to a whole new level.
• 1:21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Is there Vegas respect for him?
• 1:21:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think that like the the amount of uh of cockiness and attitude that he brings to the table is something that historically magicians would or almost dogmatically oppose because they'd be like, oh no, you want to like like let the audience win or something like that.
• 1:21:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like it's like fuck that.
• 1:21:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like if the variables there's a context is everything, yeah, right?
• 1:21:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like I don't know, if I'm if I'm if I'm gonna get into like a tennis match with Serena Williams, I better lose.
• 1:21:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like and that's the fun.
• 1:21:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's well said, you know, like I don't know.
• 1:22:00
  SPEAKER_00: I like like it's kind of a tea that that's right back to the kids' show thing.
• 1:22:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of a tea party that you're expecting someone to buy into as an adult human that like the reason that they found their own card is because their intuition is so strong, yeah, or some crap like that, you know, and it's like yeah, uh you could go that route, but something about that feels incredibly disingenuous to me.
• 1:22:27
  SPEAKER_00: And you could have a lot of fun by being like by having a little edge on that and being like, Yeah, your intuition.
• 1:22:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, just don't don't try it without me, but you know, strong intuition.
• 1:22:40
  SPEAKER_00: Have you met Jason?
• 1:22:41
  SPEAKER_00: I have, yeah.
• 1:22:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is it is he local here in Vegas?
• 1:22:44
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:22:44
  SPEAKER_00: He's not he's not.
• 1:22:45
  SPEAKER_00: I met him in the Catskills, actually.
• 1:22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Did you?
• 1:22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we were doing we were doing uh back-to-back gigs.
• 1:22:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh shit.
• 1:22:50
  SPEAKER_00: And uh uh through a friend of mine who does a who actually has a magic theater in the cat skills called Magic on Maine.
• 1:22:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it was Main Street, right?
• 1:22:58
  SPEAKER_00: And it was uh his name is Sean Doolin.
• 1:23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Sean Doolin.
• 1:23:02
  SPEAKER_00: So if you've ever up in that area, the up upstate New York area, that's Catskills, right?
• 1:23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
• 1:23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um sure.
• 1:23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Why not?
• 1:23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh then then look up Magic on Main.
• 1:23:11
  SPEAKER_00: I he he's just building out a new theater.
• 1:23:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not sure if it's even going to be still be called Magic on Main, but Sean Doolin is a wonderful performer in his own right.
• 1:23:19
  SPEAKER_00: And he had hosted me doing a mentalism show, psychological, purely.
• 1:23:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh purely.
• 1:23:28
  SPEAKER_00: And he had and he was hosting uh Jason as well.
• 1:23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Love that.
• 1:23:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it was really cool.
• 1:23:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's so cool.
• 1:23:33
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 1:23:34
  SPEAKER_00: Great to meet him.
• 1:23:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we have we've circled the drain on a bunch of questions.
• 1:23:38
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't, we probably didn't fully answer any of them, but let's just move on to another one to frustrate uh to frustrate people who are like, you didn't answer anything.
• 1:23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Let me tell you something.
• 1:23:48
  SPEAKER_01: I've been so intrigued and engaged by all of your answers, regardless if they're specifically answering my question or not, that I'm I I'm tuned in.
• 1:23:55
  SPEAKER_01: Again, you're you're interested and I'm interested.
• 1:23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Nice, nice.
• 1:23:58
  SPEAKER_01: All right, what's up?
• 1:23:59
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I feel like we're in sync.
• 1:24:01
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I got a good thing going on.
• 1:24:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna I'm gonna try something here.
• 1:24:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna try something here.
• 1:24:06
  SPEAKER_01: You ready for the magic trick?
• 1:24:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think I might.
• 1:24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Holy shit.
• 1:24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
• 1:24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Have you had have you seen this one, by the way?
• 1:24:15
  SPEAKER_01: This is how people live life.
• 1:24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Do you get that at your show, by the way?
• 1:24:19
  SPEAKER_01: What do you say?
• 1:24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do you do you do you get people doing that at your show?
• 1:24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um sometimes they try if their friend is up.
• 1:24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, if their friend is up, especially for that particular routine with the hypnosis we were talking about earlier.
• 1:24:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one that does not survive video scrutiny.
• 1:24:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's gotta be tough.
• 1:24:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I but it it's cool because I can just tell it feels almost ritualistic for me to it feels heavy.
• 1:24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:24:44
  SPEAKER_00: For for people to notice that someone's filming, and then for me to be like Yes.
• 1:24:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so I so it I I actually don't mind that they do that.
• 1:24:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, especially if I get that moment with them and then that's it.
• 1:24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:24:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if they try to bring it back out or something, and it's like, oh, that starts to get annoying.
• 1:25:03
  SPEAKER_00: But but it all it all like most of these things where I'm stopping the show to like put someone back in the in their lane is really in is is I think intriguing.
• 1:25:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's it it adds to the show.
• 1:25:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's fair.
• 1:25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Which I think that my disclaimer does too, just to swing back on that topic.
• 1:25:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think the disclaimer makes it the show better, yes, not worse.
• 1:25:22
  SPEAKER_01: And uh but yeah, so were you gonna Maybe we're gonna say this is gonna be either incredible or an absolute bust.
• 1:25:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, hold on.
• 1:25:29
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna find out.
• 1:25:30
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, you took your finger off.
• 1:25:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I did what you took your finger off a second to go.
• 1:25:36
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus Christ.
• 1:25:39
  SPEAKER_03: Did you see that?
• 1:25:40
  SPEAKER_03: I see it.
• 1:25:41
  SPEAKER_03: I can see it on the big screen.
• 1:25:43
  SPEAKER_01: This is not AMI, this is not CGI, this is the real deal.
• 1:25:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know this is they're gonna be able to back I don't know.
• 1:25:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's back on.
• 1:25:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's not the trick, though.
• 1:25:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's not the trick.
• 1:25:53
  SPEAKER_01: To your to your right, to my left, you see a notepad with a black marker there.
• 1:25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Do you mind grabbing that, please?
• 1:26:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't mind grabbing that.
• 1:26:02
  SPEAKER_00: I have to think about it.
• 1:26:03
  SPEAKER_01: Now here's the deal.
• 1:26:04
  SPEAKER_01: I have, I also have a pad of paper and a marker.
• 1:26:08
  SPEAKER_01: You and I are gonna draw something, and I feel like we're so in sync that I want it to be, I just want it to come natural to you.
• 1:26:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want you to try to do anything fancy.
• 1:26:18
  SPEAKER_01: I just want it imagine we're at a show.
• 1:26:21
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the way it is.
• 1:26:23
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine we're on a podcast.
• 1:26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine we're imagine we're on the Hey Big Head show.
• 1:26:27
  SPEAKER_01: Which is the Vegas local podcast.
• 1:26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Hypothetically speaking.
• 1:26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Julie, I want you to give us give us an animal that we could draw that I think that he and I are gonna draw in very similar fashions, if you don't mind.
• 1:26:41
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I guess I learned earlier that in addition to him having a scorpion, he also has cats.
• 1:26:47
  SPEAKER_03: He does.
• 1:26:48
  SPEAKER_03: So I'd like to see that maybe.
• 1:26:49
  SPEAKER_03: Let's draw a cat.
• 1:26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Let's draw a cat.
• 1:26:51
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see what happens.
• 1:26:51
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see what happens.
• 1:26:54
  SPEAKER_03: This kind of feels like a game show.
• 1:26:56
  SPEAKER_03: This is a whiteboard marker.
• 1:26:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know what it is?
• 1:26:59
  SPEAKER_01: You want us to get scarpies?
• 1:27:00
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:27:01
  SPEAKER_01: In this economy?
• 1:27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Are you kidding me?
• 1:27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Are you kidding me right now?
• 1:27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:27:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Let me know when you're done.
• 1:27:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm getting there.
• 1:27:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm slowly getting there too.
• 1:27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, this is gonna be fantastic.
• 1:27:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I feel like we're in sync.
• 1:27:19
  SPEAKER_01: I I feel like you and I are exactly where we should be.
• 1:27:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then Oh my god, if this works.
• 1:27:28
  SPEAKER_01: Call Darren Brown.
• 1:27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Call Del Rey.
• 1:27:33
  SPEAKER_00: I might be able to call Del Rey.
• 1:27:35
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna do one more.
• 1:27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Julie, let's give it a name.
• 1:27:38
  SPEAKER_01: I want to see if you he and I have the same handwriting, too.
• 1:27:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:27:41
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see.
• 1:27:43
  SPEAKER_01: What what's our cat's name?
• 1:27:45
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we'll go with Chester.
• 1:27:48
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do Chester.
• 1:27:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's a good name.
• 1:27:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's a fantastic name.
• 1:27:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like Chester Cheeto.
• 1:27:53
  SPEAKER_01: Chester Cheeto.
• 1:27:55
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:27:58
  SPEAKER_01: Kent, I'd like for you to do a favor.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_01: For me.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Count us three.
• 1:28:02
  SPEAKER_01: Just to hold up our drawings and let's just see if we're just we're so in sync that we drew the same thing in the same style in the same handwriting.
• 1:28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:28:12
  SPEAKER_01: You ready?
• 1:28:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:28:13
  SPEAKER_01: All right, one, two, three.
• 1:28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Hello then.
• 1:28:19
  SPEAKER_01: Are you kidding me?
• 1:28:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like I drew.
• 1:28:35
  SPEAKER_00: Wait a second.
• 1:28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Wait a second.
• 1:28:38
  SPEAKER_00: The underline, too.
• 1:28:39
  SPEAKER_00: The under the underline?
• 1:28:40
  SPEAKER_00: The underline.
• 1:28:41
  SPEAKER_00: Mike.
• 1:28:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's like I've breakfast it.
• 1:28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Mike I've done it before.
• 1:28:46
  SPEAKER_00: You never want it.
• 1:28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, did you also take off your f- Hold on.
• 1:28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wait, that was bad.
• 1:28:56
  SPEAKER_01: My God.
• 1:29:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how you did that.
• 1:29:01
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna have to ask the Oracle.
• 1:29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:29:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:29:05
  SPEAKER_00: It'll have the wrong answer for that one, actually.
• 1:29:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's almost like we went dumpster diving after your show since you said the 25 seats are behind the dumpster.
• 1:29:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, are you trying to are you are you picking through my trap?
• 1:29:20
  SPEAKER_00: That was dope.
• 1:29:21
  SPEAKER_00: This was cool.
• 1:29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Nicely done.
• 1:29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, wow.
• 1:29:23
  SPEAKER_00: I should think about doing something like this in the show.
• 1:29:26
  SPEAKER_00: You should probably incorporate that in your act.
• 1:29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Might be crazy.
• 1:29:28
  SPEAKER_00: I might do that.
• 1:29:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 1:29:29
  SPEAKER_00: We'll find out.
• 1:29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Live a little.
• 1:29:31
  SPEAKER_00: We'll find out.
• 1:29:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is one of the beautiful things, actually, I've noticed in the show.
• 1:29:34
  SPEAKER_00: This is something for my magicians and for the people who are coming, you know.
• 1:29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um you'll forget that before you come.
• 1:29:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then you'll be like, hey, wait a second, on your like fifth watch of this podcast for SEO purposes.
• 1:29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Your fifth full watch, by the way.
• 1:29:54
  SPEAKER_00: None of that like 15 seconds garbage, right?
• 1:29:56
  SPEAKER_01: We want the full watch.
• 1:29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Your fifth full watch with your fifth thoughtful comment that they will reply to.
• 1:30:04
  SPEAKER_00: Of course it will.
• 1:30:05
  SPEAKER_00: You'll start to notice, you'll be like, damn, that's familiar somehow.
• 1:30:09
  SPEAKER_00: And uh there's there's this thing where um where people who come to the show multiple times, they start to notice that some things are similar or familiar.
• 1:30:21
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 1:30:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really interesting.
• 1:30:22
  SPEAKER_00: I got this question a lot from magicians.
• 1:30:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, is does that affect the show negatively?
• 1:30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Where people are are are seeing, they're sort of starting to get the idea of what's coming next, and they are they feel like they can see behind the curtain a little bit.
• 1:30:35
  SPEAKER_00: And the answer uh they're like, does that just affect the show negatively?
• 1:30:38
  SPEAKER_00: The answer is absolutely not, absolutely not.
• 1:30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think this is and I've asked this directly to people whenever someone says, Oh, this is our third time, or whatever, um, or oh, this is the thing we love to do in Vegas, and that's just like my spooky people, you know, or or whatever.
• 1:30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like some some couple from uh some couple from Connecticut just came the other night and it was their fourth time.
• 1:31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like every time they come to Vegas, they come to see the show.
• 1:31:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 1:31:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I keep telling them to message me because they've supported enough, right?
• 1:31:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to like stop, I want to stop taking money from their kids.
• 1:31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, like uh, but but it's cool.
• 1:31:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I always ask them, does does the fact that you are noticing more, because you have to be noticing more.
• 1:31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do you recognize them by the way?
• 1:31:21
  SPEAKER_00: I I yes, when people have come that much, I will often recognize them because they'll often by the by the second or third time they'll buy the front row seats, and then I'm looking at those faces for like basically 90 minutes.
• 1:31:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh if I don't recognize them, oh my god, it was so sweet.
• 1:31:37
  SPEAKER_00: A guy had come slight departure, a guy had come uh with his with his father uh about three months ago, and his father was rather old, and they uh they had the VIP experience, which we do, which we taught them some magic and did some more magic privately for them, and he was just a total uh you know, a total uh totally energetic old guy, but clearly like you know, yeah, he was up in there.
• 1:32:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then that guy came again alone uh recently, like a week ago.
• 1:32:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it was so sweet because he was like, I just this was one of the uh this was a great experience.
• 1:32:17
  SPEAKER_00: My father had such a good time and he was talking about it till till he passed, and I was like, that's that was a really, really sweet thing.
• 1:32:25
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, the show can be pretty pretty heartwarming and pretty touching at the end, and I uh I like that.
• 1:32:33
  SPEAKER_00: And there's you know, not not to not to like continuously sing the praises of the show, but when people return and they say things like that, it just makes me feel good.
• 1:32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:32:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so, but the the to the to the question at hand, when people show up multiple times and they they uh and I ask them, you know, does it make does it make it better?
• 1:32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um they have they have, or does it make it worse rather, that you sort of know what's coming in some senses.
• 1:32:59
  SPEAKER_00: And and they say, oh no, no, no, no.
• 1:33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Usually they report that that's those are the moments where they s where they they since they know what's coming, they don't have to watch the stage, they get to watch everyone else.
• 1:33:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and that's that's that's a really interesting thought for me.
• 1:33:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I get uh it makes me feel like if I can speak to my magi for a moment, uh, it makes me feel like I should have like a Ghost Stories inner circle club or something.
• 1:33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 1:33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Where you're on like a list, you know, after your third time, and that list now I don't know, I really don't know.
• 1:33:35
  SPEAKER_01: You get a different sense of enjoyment.
• 1:33:38
  SPEAKER_00: And and and it's like an there's sometimes where I need people to say a certain thing and they won't say the thing.
• 1:33:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I've made it so obvious what they're supposed to say, you know, and they just refuse to say for some reason.
• 1:33:54
  SPEAKER_00: They can't read, they've they are uh they've taken a tremendous amount of mushrooms or LSD, like whatever it is, and they just can't.
• 1:34:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I apologize to you already about this, okay?
• 1:34:03
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to bring it up on the show.
• 1:34:05
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, listen, I'll provide it for you next time.
• 1:34:08
  SPEAKER_00: I just won't call on you.
• 1:34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but um uh and if I have someone in the audience who's seen the show multiple times and I know that, yeah, then and they know what's supposed to happen and they know the struggle that I'm currently having, I can just look at them and say, Okay, you know what, let's do it this way.
• 1:34:26
  SPEAKER_00: You name anything.
• 1:34:29
  SPEAKER_01: Has that that's happened before?
• 1:34:30
  SPEAKER_00: That has happened before.
• 1:34:31
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, what an opportunity that is.
• 1:34:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great opportunity.
• 1:34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:34:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so now in my mind, I'm like, I'm like, I wonder if that can just be manufactured.
• 1:34:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like if somebody's come and seen it, like if if people get a pleasure from being in this sort of intimate environment and peeking behind the curtain a little bit, and I get, you know, one or two of those people in the crowd per week.
• 1:34:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:34:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 1:34:53
  SPEAKER_00: If I if they have a little pin or something that tells me that that's that's a that's a we've seen it five times, and we got the text about what zoo animal to name or something like that, like, man, that's kind of a cool thing to like ring in and like make you feel like you're really you're there, you know.
• 1:35:12
  SPEAKER_00: You I mean, I don't know.
• 1:35:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm I'm thinking about it.
• 1:35:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I actually want to do that because you know, the the having a having plants feels kind of strange, but uh not that we would ever do that.
• 1:35:25
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:35:26
  SPEAKER_00: Not that we would ever You do not have plants in your show, I can assure you that.
• 1:35:30
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I don't, but um I eat plants.
• 1:35:36
  SPEAKER_01: That was the most unexpected.
• 1:35:38
  SPEAKER_01: Out of all the things we talked about and all the things you've said, that was the most unexpected thing.
• 1:35:42
  SPEAKER_00: I I work I work veganism into every conversation I have.
• 1:35:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, are you vegan?
• 1:35:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's part of the contract that you sign.
• 1:35:50
  SPEAKER_01: When you're waving your soul over the phone.
• 1:35:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's in the waiver, yes.
• 1:35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um but uh yeah, I am but um uh 16 years still waiting for that damn starvation to kick in.
• 1:36:01
  SPEAKER_00: Still still waiting for the protein deficiencies to start.
• 1:36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Any day now, any day.
• 1:36:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um I believe in you.
• 1:36:08
  SPEAKER_00: But uh but yeah, I I uh I don't know if we'll do that, but it just seems like kind of a cool thing to do.
• 1:36:14
  SPEAKER_01: It is cool when you have that.
• 1:36:15
  SPEAKER_01: We this is an this is you know back on the podcast side of things.
• 1:36:19
  SPEAKER_01: We had a guest on Mike Davis, he's uh TV personality.
• 1:36:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I know him.
• 1:36:22
  SPEAKER_00: He came to he came to cover Ghost Stories one time.
• 1:36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, fantastic.
• 1:36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was a great awesome guy.
• 1:36:26
  SPEAKER_00: He's awesome, yeah.
• 1:36:27
  SPEAKER_01: He and I had we had a great episode, and even afterwards, he stuck around, he talked for like another hour and a half, and he's big on like the the business and the strategy side side of when it comes to creating a podcast and creating content that's engaging.
• 1:36:40
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things he said is you know when you're on the right track, when you have an inside joke that your fans and followers and viewers and and listeners are in on.
• 1:36:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like once they start saying it themselves, like and they're posting it in you know and reply to some of your posts or whatever.
• 1:36:56
  SPEAKER_01: If if there's an inside joke, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:36:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so they're part of it now too.
• 1:37:00
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 1:37:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 1:37:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's what we're striving for and working towards is getting to that point organically, not trying to force an inside joke or anything like that, but that type of involvement that they're now part of the show.
• 1:37:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I I can see this very much similarities between what you're discussing and what you know any podcast hopes to have with their demographic as well.
• 1:37:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's like the the the like magic-y, like secret-y version of it.
• 1:37:30
  SPEAKER_00: But like, you know, I mean, it's something it could be something simple, like, you know, they get they just get a a pin and a special drink or something like that, like, or access to a secret menu, or like whatever, you know, I don't know.
• 1:37:41
  SPEAKER_00: To feel like you're walking into a place where like, oh, you've earned some belonging here from from showing up so much and get some recognition for it.
• 1:37:48
  SPEAKER_00: But there is totally something to the idea that that just when they come, if something is the same as it was the last time and it's and it and they get the sense that it's supposed to be a surprise, and then they learn that it's not, yeah and that it all wasn't so random, and it wasn't, you know, when the spirit entered, that's the moment that the spirit was supposed to enter.
• 1:38:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's just where that happens.
• 1:38:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:38:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they start to they start to get the feeling of like, oh, I like this play.
• 1:38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, I like this play, and I I get to I like that I get to see these other people enjoy this play for the first time.
• 1:38:23
  SPEAKER_01: Disney does a Disney does a great job at the Disneyland, Disney World, whatever.
• 1:38:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not a Disney adult at all, but I have friends that are and they're adamant on the fact that they're on uh next tier up and they have you know extra access or extra you know uh special pins.
• 1:38:38
  SPEAKER_01: About 33, man, yeah.
• 1:38:40
  SPEAKER_00: Are you a Disney adult?
• 1:38:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I I I I long to be a Disney adult.
• 1:38:44
  SPEAKER_00: Be honest.
• 1:38:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have although I gotta be honest, um, my girlfriend has we have it has been a whirlwind of travel in the past uh like like 10 months or so like yeah, crazy.
• 1:38:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um we have until January to get me to Paris and to get her and me to Shanghai to be able to say that we've been to every single Disney on the planet within one year.
• 1:39:11
  SPEAKER_00: Holy shit.
• 1:39:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes I think that makes me a Disney adult.
• 1:39:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm pretty sure that qualifies you as Disney adult.
• 1:39:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, you know what?
• 1:39:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a Disney adult.
• 1:39:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 1:39:20
  SPEAKER_01: Live a little.
• 1:39:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's cool.
• 1:39:21
  SPEAKER_00: I uh it I'm assuming she is as well, or are you the one that kind of no, she's the one that that that leads that parade, but uh but and she's the one that has all the information, all the knowledge.
• 1:39:30
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta tell you, uh Tokyo, Tokyo, Disney Sea, yeah, so crazy.
• 1:39:35
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 1:39:35
  SPEAKER_00: Crazy good, yeah, crazy.
• 1:39:36
  SPEAKER_00: They've got a uh journey to the center of the earth ride that is fucking nuts, fucking nuts, but worth worth the extra like 60 bucks to just cut to the front.
• 1:39:47
  SPEAKER_01: That good, huh?
• 1:39:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, you don't want to wait four hours.
• 1:39:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you could be walking around Disney C.
• 1:39:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, like I don't know.
• 1:39:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, I get it.
• 1:39:54
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, listen.
• 1:39:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's cool.
• 1:39:56
  SPEAKER_01: I I've been to plus one to Disneyland, and it's it you definitely pay extra to get a better experience for sure.
• 1:40:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I and it's uh honestly, it's worth it.
• 1:40:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's it is worth it's it's worth it to cut the line, I gotta say.
• 1:40:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you even if like just do it.
• 1:40:11
  SPEAKER_00: Just do it.
• 1:40:11
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to if you want to go and have the experience, the full experience, just do it.
• 1:40:14
  SPEAKER_01: Wise word, if you're gonna take anything from this episode, it's by the line at Disney.
• 1:40:19
  SPEAKER_01: Cut the line at Disney from GetXline.
• 1:40:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:40:21
  SPEAKER_00: You can do it financially, or you can do it with like elbows.
• 1:40:26
  SPEAKER_00: Just like them are very small.
• 1:40:32
  SPEAKER_00: Just pick them up and put you, put them behind you.
• 1:40:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's happening?
• 1:40:36
  SPEAKER_01: Move aside, silly Billy.
• 1:40:37
  SPEAKER_01: KJ's coming through.
• 1:40:38
  SPEAKER_00: KJ Kajillion.
• 1:40:39
  SPEAKER_00: KJ Kajillion's coming through.
• 1:40:41
  SPEAKER_00: I am here.
• 1:40:42
  SPEAKER_01: Here I am.
• 1:40:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh when are you at Ghost Stories?
• 1:40:46
  SPEAKER_01: What nights do you uh perform?
• 1:40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's um well, currently we're doing Friday, Saturday, Sunday, 6 p.m.
• 1:40:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we used to run two shows and then like uh gas prices went up or something.
• 1:40:58
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:40:59
  SPEAKER_00: That whole thing.
• 1:40:59
  SPEAKER_00: We could probably run back into two shows, but you know what the problem was?
• 1:41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we're we're doing uh a nearly two-hour experience in a uh in Vegas, which is like people are used to having like 70 minutes, and so we we're we're trying to cut down to make it 90 minutes.
• 1:41:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh you really yeah, we are trying, um, but it's hard because there's so much that's like uh so juicy.
• 1:41:24
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't imagine any part of that show getting cut.
• 1:41:27
  SPEAKER_01: I I feel like you every part of it, man.
• 1:41:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, too much.
• 1:41:39
  SPEAKER_00: How much that can be cut.
• 1:41:41
  SPEAKER_00: But no, I I agree.
• 1:41:42
  SPEAKER_01: Have them talk, have your people talk to my people.
• 1:41:44
  SPEAKER_01: We'll we'll throw you some ideas.
• 1:41:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know where I was going with that metaphor.
• 1:41:47
  SPEAKER_00: I almost said rolling in their grave, but they're not dead.
• 1:41:49
  SPEAKER_00: So they're rolling on the grave.
• 1:41:50
  SPEAKER_00: They're just rolling around on the floor.
• 1:41:52
  SPEAKER_01: They're rolling around that damn hallway.
• 1:41:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they're doing.
• 1:41:55
  SPEAKER_00: Nightcrawlers.
• 1:41:56
  unknown: Nightcrawl.
• 1:41:58
  SPEAKER_01: What's nightcrawlers, Ken?
• 1:41:59
  SPEAKER_00: What's nightcrawlers?
• 1:42:00
  SPEAKER_00: Are you kidding me?
• 1:42:01
  SPEAKER_01: I know what nightcrawlers is.
• 1:42:03
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody roll around on the floor.
• 1:42:04
  SPEAKER_00: Together are we underneath the blankets?
• 1:42:06
  SPEAKER_00: Damn, man.
• 1:42:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's fun.
• 1:42:08
  SPEAKER_00: Fighter of the night.
• 1:42:12
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, I can't get the blast.
• 1:42:19
  SPEAKER_00: Four.
• 1:42:22
  SPEAKER_03: You've been zoned in.
• 1:42:24
  SPEAKER_03: I've been.
• 1:42:24
  SPEAKER_03: You're on the record.
• 1:42:25
  SPEAKER_03: You're starting up the story.
• 1:42:26
  SPEAKER_00: All right, good.
• 1:42:27
  SPEAKER_00: I made the board for the book.
• 1:42:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 1:42:29
  SPEAKER_00: This was fucking awesome.
• 1:42:32
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have to be done.
• 1:42:33
  SPEAKER_01: We can keep going.
• 1:42:33
  SPEAKER_01: I gotta I gotta stop so many other questions.
• 1:42:36
  SPEAKER_00: Let's roll another question, man.
• 1:42:37
  SPEAKER_00: How did you be dwindling?
• 1:42:38
  SPEAKER_00: We were dwindling.
• 1:42:39
  SPEAKER_00: You're talking about Disney adults.
• 1:42:41
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get back in.
• 1:42:41
  SPEAKER_00: That was the break.
• 1:42:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm used to doing a two-hour show.
• 1:42:46
  SPEAKER_03: So listen, we are almost at two hours.
• 1:42:49
  SPEAKER_03: Are we really?
• 1:42:50
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 1:42:50
  SPEAKER_00: Are you fucking kidding me right now?
• 1:42:52
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 1:42:52
  SPEAKER_03: 15110.
• 1:42:54
  SPEAKER_03: Do you have people you need to check in with?
• 1:42:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um why don't you go ahead and read my mind and tell me what I'm thinking about and what's going on.
• 1:43:03
  SPEAKER_00: Hold it up and put it in an envelope and it'll tell you what it says.
• 1:43:07
  SPEAKER_00: Does that sound Julie?
• 1:43:09
  SPEAKER_02: Sounds great.
• 1:43:12
  SPEAKER_02: Sounds great.
• 1:43:14
  SPEAKER_00: Other than that you tied your left shoe means that the uh medication is a suppository.
• 1:43:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's perfect.
• 1:43:21
  SPEAKER_01: Is that true, Julie?
• 1:43:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:43:23
  SPEAKER_03: I did it.
• 1:43:24
  SPEAKER_03: And it's for me.
• 1:43:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:43:25
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 1:43:26
  SPEAKER_01: My goodness.
• 1:43:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh dear.
• 1:43:28
  SPEAKER_00: We did it, guys.
• 1:43:29
  SPEAKER_00: We did real mind reading.
• 1:43:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well done.
• 1:43:32
  SPEAKER_00: We did it.
• 1:43:33
  SPEAKER_00: It was real.
• 1:43:35
  SPEAKER_00: What is you ever doing?
• 1:43:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a magician.
• 1:43:38
  SPEAKER_00: Magic is cool.
• 1:43:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like this is this is like the ultimate like thing.
• 1:43:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I there are so like when when somebody is not willing to just tell the truth after they leave the stage, it feels to me so lonely.
• 1:43:51
  SPEAKER_01: How so?
• 1:43:51
  SPEAKER_00: It feels like you have to just like you can't like okay.
• 1:43:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think like personally, on a personal, on a level of personal gain, I think people are going, people are really swinging toward um uh valuing authenticity.
• 1:44:08
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody I'm sorry, continue.
• 1:44:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, okay, you're gonna have to tell me more about that reaction, but uh, but valuing authenticity, and when you leave the stage and you have to be like, no, I'm a really psychic, right?
• 1:44:21
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, I'm I bought my psychic show off of vanishinginc.com.
• 1:44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like or penguin magic or whatever.
• 1:44:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you're if these are the secrets, like, yes, and you can go, you can go and learn what I do from magic kits.
• 1:44:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you can learn, well, you can't read I mean you have to do a lot of theater and stuff and like write a show and like all that's cool, but like you can learn like the magic tricks from magic instructionals, like that's fine.
• 1:44:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't need to I I don't need to like lie to people off stage to like keep the mystique about the show.
• 1:44:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're like like it just feels uh inauthentic, it feels like a lie, it feels fraudulent, it feels like to have that type of existence would be uh would be lonely.
• 1:45:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:45:14
  SPEAKER_00: Would be lonely.
• 1:45:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, to only be able to tell like a close inner circle that you're actually a magician or something like that, and that you have to you have to keep telling people like in the media or in anywhere else.
• 1:45:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know.
• 1:45:26
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've I've done that.
• 1:45:27
  SPEAKER_00: I've done that.
• 1:45:27
  SPEAKER_00: It was weird.
• 1:45:28
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't like it.
• 1:45:29
  SPEAKER_00: It was gross.
• 1:45:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and there there is there are people now that like totally, totally uh are are like incredibly inauthentic.
• 1:45:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would, you know, the example that comes to everyone's mind right now is every time I do mentalism outside in the world, I'm always asked if I'm aware of Oz Pearlman.
• 1:45:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, always asked if I'm aware of and Oz uh famously was on stage recently at the um at the uh inaugural dinner.
• 1:45:56
  SPEAKER_00: No, the dinner correspondence dinner.
• 1:45:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, corresponding.
• 1:46:00
  SPEAKER_00: And just as he was doing a mentalism reveal to uh the president and Melania, he there was the shooting rang out the moment that it happened, the chaos.
• 1:46:10
  SPEAKER_00: It was crazy, create really good publicity for him, I gotta imagine.
• 1:46:14
  SPEAKER_00: Fastid publicity.
• 1:46:15
  SPEAKER_00: My God.
• 1:46:15
  SPEAKER_00: But but like, you know, what he's doing seems incredibly authentic, uh, inauthentic to me rather.
• 1:46:22
  SPEAKER_01: Inauthentic.
• 1:46:22
  SPEAKER_00: Inauthentic.
• 1:46:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he is a he's a uh a mentalist, and he calls himself a mentalist, and you know, he might try to get away with it by saying, like, oh, I'm trying to um I'm trying to uh to uh you know people should know what a mentalist is.
• 1:46:37
  SPEAKER_00: They can look it up, they can look up my his history.
• 1:46:39
  SPEAKER_00: His history was that he was deep into uh a company called Penguin Magic.
• 1:46:43
  SPEAKER_00: He did all their tutorials, and it's it's so clear that his history was in magic, but but nowadays he's uh all of his explanations as to how it works are directly in line with your original explanation for um for uh for what mentalism is.
• 1:46:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:47:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just not what the majority of it is.
• 1:47:02
  SPEAKER_00: What the great majority of it is has nothing to do with things like what you see on the mentalist TV show.
• 1:47:08
  SPEAKER_00: The great majority of it is having some secret way of getting information and then pretending.
• 1:47:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, you're pretending to know more or know less than you actually know at any given moment.
• 1:47:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that's part of the larger deception.
• 1:47:25
  SPEAKER_00: You're pretending to read the body language, you're pretending to get the intuitive feelings in the back of your brain.
• 1:47:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just like in the in the in the in the theatrical context, of course, that's that's great.
• 1:47:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's fun.
• 1:47:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's fun, you know.
• 1:47:43
  SPEAKER_00: I want to be in a room with Sherlock Holmes.
• 1:47:45
  SPEAKER_00: I really want to feel like I'm in a room with Sherlock Holmes for for an hour or two.
• 1:47:49
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds great.
• 1:47:51
  SPEAKER_00: I want to feel like I'm in the room with a and a seance is happening for an hour or two, like a psychic is there and they're really telling me deep stuff.
• 1:48:00
  SPEAKER_00: But then when I leave, I I don't want to take a bunch of unnecessary pseudoscientific garbage with me, if possible.
• 1:48:08
  SPEAKER_00: And when and and Oz is definitely trying to make you believe that he is, you know, a real life shorlack.
• 1:48:16
  SPEAKER_01: What would you prefer he would say then?
• 1:48:18
  SPEAKER_00: What I would prefer that he would say is Because he I've the reason he's as he I I gotta imagine he's one of the one of the biggest.
• 1:48:25
  SPEAKER_01: One of the biggest things, especially right now.
• 1:48:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:48:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I feel like he's there because he does give that.
• 1:48:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:48:31
  SPEAKER_00: When I was doing the the the purely psychological version of this, right?
• 1:48:35
  SPEAKER_00: The so many people, so many, so often, I would get people who are company owners and stuff like that, come up and say, Can you do like sales trainings with these techniques?
• 1:48:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd be like, Oh, that sounds like so much money.
• 1:48:50
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, Oh yeah, we got like a huge budget for that.
• 1:48:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, No, I can't.
• 1:48:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, I cannot do a sales training for your people based on what you just saw.
• 1:49:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a magician.
• 1:49:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it was it was really like, um, but I know a lot of mentalists who would just straightforwardly say, Yes, I can.
• 1:49:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and then they'll just lie.
• 1:49:15
  SPEAKER_00: They'll just lie.
• 1:49:16
  SPEAKER_00: And they'll they'll go and they'll study a little bit of body language and a little bit of like like salesmanship and whatever, and then they'll just go and they'll do the sales training and they'll be like, if you raise your eyebrows, it will elicit a response.
• 1:49:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that's true to some degree.
• 1:49:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's true.
• 1:49:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you can use that in a theatrical context, and all of that stuff is true.
• 1:49:34
  SPEAKER_00: But but if I at all get the sense that someone who is asking me to do that is asking me based on what they think that I will display an expertise that, if you follow that line of expertise, you will eventually get to what I'm presenting on stage.
• 1:49:53
  SPEAKER_00: That is fraudulent, right?
• 1:49:55
  SPEAKER_00: That is a fraudulent sale.
• 1:49:57
  SPEAKER_00: That is, that is, that is miseducation.
• 1:50:00
  SPEAKER_00: is misinformed.
• 1:50:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and it also it's um uh what's the word uh false advertisement sure um basically if they think that I'm gonna go and teach the skills that are the beginning skills to reach that point no that's a lie that's a lie so if I so if I can explain that away from them and then they're like oh yeah no we can we just like we like your personality and your charisma and whatever we want you to teach some of that it's like okay that's that's kind of cool but I have to make it like super perfectly clear what's actually happening and um Oz uh does not feel that necessity.
• 1:50:32
  SPEAKER_00: In fact he will go so far as to say that uh what he is doing is not magic.
• 1:50:37
  SPEAKER_00: Or he might say at this point that it's a form of magic because he's been feeling some pressure from that recently I think so what I would prefer Oz say listen up Oz what's there you millionaire who performs for the president I got some advice for you.
• 1:50:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's me Kent here.
• 1:50:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's me Kent I do spooky magic KJ KJ Kajillion here talking to Oz Pearlman listen here fella I don't know what he should say you know that's all right I don't know I I think that um it's working for him and he's able to live for him very well and he's able to be okay with it the and he's able to internally justify in some way what he's doing.
• 1:51:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how one does that because I I cannot do that now.
• 1:51:31
  SPEAKER_00: And um and I think uh it would be it would be probably unwise of O's from a marketing perspective to have a conversation with someone who is opposed to that kind of thing and also knowledgeable about mentalism and magic.
• 1:51:52
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so I don't think he will ever do that.
• 1:51:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I would I would obviously love to have a conversation with him about it because if he can convince me to start to that it's it's cool to do that I'd get for him to start doing that.
• 1:52:05
  SPEAKER_01: Same thing with my non-vegans like convince me that uh that that uh is there is something ethically consistent about loving animals and eating them and I will uh happily um you know this type of put the steak back on my plate this ties into my next question which is totally relevant but three things it's it's the we'll get your husband his medication soon don't you worry yeah he doesn't need it he's on speed dial right uh we have you your your passion for performances your passion or your your interest in horror and you know all that spooky stuff spooky stuff and then eating animals ties into a movie we were talking about Obsession oh my gosh thoughts obsession is so good is is that the best horror movie you've seen in a long time in a long time yes in a long time it strikes such a good chord you know and it's so unique it's so new yeah it's so different than anything and the whimsy of the stuff that doesn't matter to the story makes the story so much better.
• 1:53:08
  SPEAKER_01: What do you mean?
• 1:53:08
  SPEAKER_00: When I say that when I say that I mean the the phone call that he made to customer service oh my god right holy shit like okay in this world that they built that's perfectly congruent.
• 1:53:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah right it's like it's you you absolutely don't expect it yeah you expect them to be like kind of like what are you talking about or something like that they're in the mystery box outside of this brand or this company or whatever and and what you get is just insane completely out of left field and also perfectly aligned with the story.
• 1:53:46
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and it doesn't matter yeah it doesn't matter like whatever that phone call would yield doesn't matter but the choices that they made in the writing were so good.
• 1:53:56
  SPEAKER_01: Even the cashier when when the cashier when he went back to it oh when he joked with the cashier joke with him and he was like what's that?
• 1:54:01
  SPEAKER_01: No it's so rare it's like what's that?
• 1:54:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually it's right next to you.
• 1:54:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah no it's right here I'm just kidding.
• 1:54:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah we've had a lot of complaints about these things.
• 1:54:10
  SPEAKER_00: Did you not like read the package or so good.
• 1:54:16
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't seen Obsession Obsession is an absolute must for any horror fan or anything like that.
• 1:54:22
  SPEAKER_00: Also well we were talking about how lovely it is that it's just like demolishing Hollywood.
• 1:54:28
  SPEAKER_00: Where it's like they made it for like under a million dollars and it's just sweeping box office and it's a horror movie which is not likely to sweep box office to sweep the the box office like that.
• 1:54:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:54:39
  SPEAKER_00: And same thing with backrooms to to a slightly lesser degree but backrooms I think was made for under 10 million and I think that in its opening weekend it I don't know nationally it made over like a like 150 million or something like that.
• 1:54:52
  SPEAKER_00: Crazy crazy and uh if you like backrooms if you like that mythos from uh yeah I mean I got nothing super interesting to say about either of these films except that I love that they're just destroying these like hundred two hundred million dollar movies and breaking records everywhere and just so exquisitely made.
• 1:55:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:55:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know like I mean damn.
• 1:55:15
  SPEAKER_01: We need more of that.
• 1:55:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah we need more of that it that that will get people back to the theaters.
• 1:55:19
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the it's lovely that that uh I can't remember what we were talking about earlier, but the gates are swinging open now for uh for a lot of things um and and for a lot of these types of films you know for for like you can you can now like I mean think of the Will Smith spaghetti video with AI from like two or three years ago.
• 1:55:42
  SPEAKER_00: How do how it is now.
• 1:55:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:55:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 1:55:45
  SPEAKER_00: That was already really impressive.
• 1:55:47
  SPEAKER_00: But now you almost can't tell and it's like it's like on a on the first glance you actually can't and so what what we're doing now like I mean I don't know you know you there's always gonna be some regardless the tools for filmmaking are getting crazy inexpensive.
• 1:56:04
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just say that.
• 1:56:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and for stuff that would normally have to be big budget.
• 1:56:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and it I can only think of what's going to be available in five years and like things like things like obsession might be a might end up being a um like a warm blanket uh of uh of like a nostalgic past when all the films weren't using AI and green screen right um and it or or like using practical effects or or AI might just like open up the floodgates for filmmakers who have great ideas and want to like you know pitch them to studios or make their own studio like you can buy a camera that you can do a really good movie on at this point for for like like pennies compared to what the bigger studios think that they need.
• 1:56:52
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 1:56:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's just it's amazing.
• 1:56:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's just we're in a we're in a great time and obsession is like a great bookmark.
• 1:56:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a good milestone and uh getting to that Will Smith thing like the Will Smith video of three years ago compared to where it is today it's gotten tremendously better and it's gonna get better and faster over time.
• 1:57:10
  SPEAKER_01: The amount of videos that even like I'm pretty well versed in being able to you know pinpoint when something's real and something's fake but even I'm now second guessing myself every now and then of right like is this real is this fake my dad the amount of videos that my dad has sent me that isn't real that's AI.
• 1:57:27
  unknown: Exactly.
• 1:57:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that was happening around the Will Smith for the first video man can eat spaghetti so I did a lot of research on you you know oh yes oh yes I did a ton of research and you know of course I you know I saw about your background in theater I saw about you growing up and learning magic I know all about your uncle um but I am curious about your background in a cappella oh my god I did I did um I actually sang my own rendition to your a cappella instrumental covers that you were creating what um is your favorite memory of your a cappella troupe or career you might call it so I I I got a I got a a love early on for uh college a cappella groups and I thought that they were just so cool this was way before like the pentatonics or whatever like okay Barton Bella say it again I said okay Barton Bella yes yeah and um the the brown derbies were some of my favorites and you know I had I had this like you know I was burning CDs with with all of these uh all of these a cappella troops on them I thought it was so cool and um you know the the the the level of um I don't know the the and the the beatboxing nowadays it's insane shit man like you see those guys do dubstep stuff yeah crazy um but uh but yeah so I saw this great video the other day actually I gotta take a small aside this guy he was like this Indian kid and he can and and on the the the caption said me imitating uh random noises okay and he he throws like a like an empty soda can over or an empty bottle over his shoulder and he goes across the across the floor and he goes it was so awesome I love that yeah but anyway so um there's uh you see those there's this there's this um uh in the beatbox world there's this a there's this Asian guy who is like all of his videos are in like a white room and he's perfectly he takes a sound effect whatever the sound effect is and I I I don't oh my god I'll send you the link next time I see he takes the sound effect of whatever it is like somebody will like you know one of those old washboards he'll they'll like run a the back of a paintbrush down the washboard and he'll just perfectly mimic the sound that it made you know and that's that's a real sound it's not like they're not audio for it you listen to him do the other beatbox stuff and it's just like that's amazing insane it's crazy it's he's you bel I don't know I don't know if it's fake but I think it's not because he he he does such incredible uh actual beatboxing but yeah my my um my love for a cappella came uh came pretty quick and it was because I was talentless with instruments yes but I like music so hey so I had an a cappella group in high school that I ran and um the clef hangers that's not a joke why is that funny laughing that's a great name yeah that's a fantastic name yeah it's I think the way you said it the way you said it first there's a term in drama called a cliffhanger you see thank you and uh uh there's a musical firm called a clef so there's that you had now you understand now it you had the video where it was almost like a Brady Bunch style yes okay this is for a video game how long did League of Legends right League of Legends yeah how long did that video take to make that that took uh that took quite a quite a while to make actually we actually recorded that on a like a non-recording studio microphone like it was it was it was a like an almost an onboard um uh a webcam mic yeah like it was not high quality at all and I did a little bit of mixing for it but I didn't know what the hell I was doing but but the the the league of legends community got uh got a hold of that and that was that went pretty far I mean I think that video has uh something like almost a million views on it which was pretty cool.
• 2:01:53
  SPEAKER_01: You had a you had a I mean I don't know if you still do or not but you had a strong following with the League of Legends.
• 2:01:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah that group was after Mda and that was some of the people that I had met at Mda and a lot of us were league players and it was there was a uh I I like this is a weird thing to say but it that was that was a an example of how I feel about sort of immersion in theater where everything sort of has a rhyme or a reason.
• 2:02:19
  SPEAKER_00: So there were a lot of um there were a lot of uh uh or you do you took as take as much of it has a rhyme or reason as possible so we there were a lot of videos at that time of people who were doing a cappella yeah it was a lot of it was self-recorded tracks of like the multiple camera Brady Bunch thing right and I was and in wanting to do a League of Legends parody song with my group I was like you know what would be the coolest thing for this is if if these these faces had a reason for existing you know and so it's like we were all on the same league team was the idea and all of the lyrics around those videos were something that one might say if you stretch the imagination just a little bit in an actual game um minus the beatboxing of course which we've which is kind of harder to justify.
• 2:03:12
  SPEAKER_00: Now that I think about it it could have been like choking on something but but but yeah and then the video of course was like what the video screens would have been sort of like our almost like Skype or or zoom chat yeah uh in game right uh which is you know it's it's just on the edge of believable it's it's it's it's in that immersion where you're like okay this is I get this this is cute this is these video screens have a reason for existing in a sense right these are their webcams where they're playing the video game yeah and uh we did two of those I did a third one with my buddy Alan uh which was uh like way less popular but we did we did uh um uh panic of the nexus and Pone Your Face right that was that was a panic at the disco parody and a uh and a uh Lady Gaga parody and uh both of those were super fun.
• 2:04:05
  SPEAKER_00: Love that the first one that we did we actually got contacted by Riot Games.
• 2:04:09
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 2:04:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah we got contacted by them to to do more and uh we we we couldn't really um get it together in time the in the time frame that they wanted us to that's too bad.
• 2:04:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was you know whatever we they they featured us in their like they did like a weekly That's cool like here's what the fans are doing kind of thing and they featured us and that was really helpful.
• 2:04:30
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and then yeah we did um we did do if we did do the the next one and and we teased at one or I teased at one of the video um uh called Elo Hell based off of the I was it the white tease gives you hell I I can't remember the uh all American rejects all American yes that's right the all American rejects um and we never released that one so people ten years later on that video were like where's the all American rejects where's elo hell that's great it was funny it was funny and but but then they actually started putting out a music contest riot games actually started putting out a music contest because they were like this is dope yeah and uh then there were a lot of like parody slash not really parody people who came in and they started doing these um these like actual really super produced songs and like rap tunes and like group effort things it was really cool yeah then I did one more of those it wasn't an a cappella thing but did a rap tune for a 2K was it 2K software I can't remember it was for a tribes game tribes ascension and tribes was one of my favorite franchises I love that uh that that game but um it was basically capture the flag with jetpacks and guns right it was awesome all who wouldn't love that who wouldn't love that great it was great I would still play that game today if I could and it came from like 1997 or something it was so good like around the same era as Unreal Tournament and Quake 3 that kind of thing do you still game right now totally do you really totally land party on Monday do you really I am having a land party on Monday yes playing Starcraft II and Counter Strike really no shit yeah why do you uh casually it's I'm more of a single player type guy I don't do MMOs or anything or any of the like the other ones because I'm just after a long day's work I'm not as good on video games anymore and when I play against other people especially if it's like a competitive like Call of Duty or something like that last thing I want to do is come home after a long stressful day and get you know teabagged by some kid in Iowa I just want to enjoy enjoy the few the few hours that I have being able to teabag Dan I killed it's the last thing I'm four thanks Andrew that was my Andrew Sklar buddy so yes but you land party huh good for you love that yeah we uh we I have game nights every Wednesday I'm a big big tabletop games fan nice um never played DD but I'm I I want to it sounds really fun yeah and um yeah we do game nights every Wednesday I've got like like like at this point probably 2200 board games in my collection yeah it's quite extensive that's a problem yeah um but uh but yeah it's been it's been uh that that's been a fun journey many of them are still in plastic that's okay so yeah it's we'll get there someday they'll hit the table someday who knows or I'll just put them uh put them in the ghost stories room behind 7-Eleven and we'll dig them out of the trash and show them by our next episode a cappella that is a hell of a thing that was a deep pull thank you for that that's a deep that was a deep pull I was on the fence on whether we're gonna bring that up or not and I was gonna I was like I'm gonna I want to get a vibe to see how the episode's going and then honestly midway through I'm like oh that would be perfect and then I forgot about it so I'm glad you'll never forget we are um I hear your rendition of the ping song in my sleep I forgot I did that one that's so funny okay yeah that's that's she knows more about you than you know about you that's oh my god yeah I remember filming that with my brother in my living room we with that with the hat going around the stars oh that was so fun look at you look at you how cool we're bringing it back down memory lane I think we're one tenth into the episode we're just getting started yeah this is the appetizer somebody better order food yeah all right let's get out of here because Julie's getting hangry yeah yeah yeah but Kent where could people find you online?
• 2:08:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh well they can find me on uh oh we didn't even talk about the Banachek thing just real quick I'm doing I'm doing a um I'm doing so there's a there's a there's a very prolific mentalist called Banachek who if if you're if you're in the magic world you probably already heard of but he did a show at the Stratosphere here at the on the main stage for a couple of years I started there uh stage managing for him right after the pandemic and then I I moved moved out of that and went to some other performance opportunities but eventually into ghost stories which we really tell a history about but basically just performers have a gig salad page just have a gig salad page just trust me a gig salad page gig salad what is that it's a it's like Craigslist for entertainers.
• 2:08:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay yeah like like performers will know about these things like the bash gig salad thumbtack basically the guy who who brought me like like I said Magician Study used to be in that room that I'm in the guy who brought me in for Ghost Stories the the owner of that venue he found me on one of these sites right it was gig salad specifically but it was like it's think of it like like a Craigslist like a classified for performers like the connect performers with um and Thumbtack is another one and and bark is another one but those are not just for performers like you can find a the guy that'll do your floors or whatever contractors and yeah contractors but um but yeah they're the one of these these sites that connect you with um with people who need entertainment uh be on them be on them and have high quality shit on them because man I ghost stories is uh proximally uh the the gig salad is proximally responsible for ghost stories I mean obviously there's a lot of other factors involved but my god like have those pages be out there um but anyway uh uh yeah so Banachek was at the main stage at the Stratosphere and uh we became good friends and and now we're uh we're running a sort of uh workshop for magicians in Orlando at the end of August.
• 2:10:09
  SPEAKER_00: So it's uh it's it's kind of a high ticket thing but like you can find me anyway and I'm gonna tell you where to find me but if you look that up you'll find it we're doing uh it's at the Magic Mansion and we're calling it the uh the mentalism boot camp and it's a three day three full day intensive on um how to uh uh mentalize and and how to add some theater theatrical elements to your uh your performances but uh you have no reason to trust me on that but Banachek hey that's I've only heard good things about him so um so you can find me uh my socials are all just my name Kent Axel uh at Kent Axel and have I been saying you is it Axel not Axel I've been saying both it is it's effectively both depends on where you are no no no in redoing the whole episode from the top in Sweden Axel Axel son of a bitch I am sorry it's those little it it's it's my fault I knew I hated you I knew there was something about me that I that you hated for a reason I've been seething I know and that's a really comfortable thing for guys to do you know you ever just like seethe when's the last time you've seethed seethed um it's been a long time actually about about an hour and a half ago when you called me Axel it's all been downhill since then seethe it's healthy is it healthy is it yeah yeah it gives you wrinkles clench your butthole and seethe don't do anything just bide your time just wait their time will come the opportunity will arise isn't that right Brandon nine that was really good that was a good callback well done that's why you're a professional that's why you have a show on the Vegas strip you son of a bitch well done so yeah find me anywhere I'm really easy to find actually the the ghost stories Instagram is ghost stories LV um and uh that needs more stuff on it so if you want to if you if you're if you're on the fence about coming see the show go and look at the Google reviews they're they're they're quite they're quite generous you have incredible reviews yeah I mean man it's you know okay we're kind of cheat coding it though you know we're like you you cheat code a good response from people when you start to like when you're doing good magic and when you're uh when you're bringing up deceased loved ones you know you it's that it's an emotional feeling in the room so yeah uh it it's a good cheat code for sure and uh but yeah come and come and see it come and see it and reach out to me uh I'm very easy to find if you um need any help on something theatrical something immersive or uh something uh something magical love that or if there's any other thing you'd think I could you want you want to talk about movies we're gonna talk about horror movies yeah you want to talk about horror movies I'll I'll tell you how good obsession was again again and again need to learn how to beatbox call kid that's the start baby we did it we did it if you need to carry it to an I mean I like Barbershop more now but you know actually thinking about getting some if you are a good bass reach out to me we can do bass looking for basses I'm actually a tenor and like I need I need that grounding you know good bass yeah yeah I love it keep an eye out for the new the new uh the new a cappella group we're gonna call ourselves the big big clefts oh god you put me on the spot I'm so glad he put you on the spot exactly the name we're going with big clefts baby big clefts big clefts I have no cleft I do I have a cleft chin absolutely I do no shit not crazy but there's a I'll show you later okay it's there um well boys and girls this is fun Kent you're a rock star thank you very much man you I love that man it's been a pleasure we got we got a tenth way through it and we've we'll have to run it back again we got nine more to go yes get to episode each week on HeyBighead.com make sure to check out Kent Axel Axel yes now I'm in my own I'm in my own head we'll see you next week boys that was last