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From Creativity to Cash Flow: The Business of Art & The Art of Business · Serious Lady Business

• LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (00:00) Hey there, I'm Leslie Youngblood and this is Serious Lady Business, the podcast where we get real about what it takes to build a business as a woman today. From late night Google searches and client curveballs to the wins that make it all worth it, I'm talking about the stuff no one puts in the highlight reel. Each week, I'm bringing you honest conversations, lessons learned and stories from women who are out here doing the work. Messy, meaningful and unapologetically bold. Whether you're just dreaming about starting a business or deep in the grind, this podcast is your space to feel seen, supported, and fired up. Because let's be honest, this journey is hard, hilarious, and absolutely worth it. So let's dive in. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (00:47) Welcome back to Serious Lady Business. With us today is Janna Willoughby-Lohr. Now, Janna is an artist, speaker, entrepreneur. Her business, Papercraft Miracles, is an eco-friendly, handmade paper art company. They make magical things out of paper that bring meaning and connection to people's lives. Specializing in sustainable weddings, events, corporate gifting, and custom orders, Janna and her team create miracles that are handcrafted with love, and a little bit of magic at their solar powered studio in Buffalo, New York. And Janna was also named a 40 under 40 from Stationary Trends Magazine. She's been a contestant on Meet Your Maker Showdown on Discovery Plus and was awarded the Women in Manufacturing Award from Business First in 2023. She's worked with Pinterest, Twitter, Capital One, and recently created custom gifts for Lionel Richie and Earth, Wind & Fire, who we love. amazing. She's also a podcast host. It's on multiple boards. You're an accomplished poet, rapper, and musician, and the proud mama to three little kiddos. Now she also loves bright colors, giggling, and things that are small. Janna, I'm so pleased to have you here today, and I'm so excited to talk with such an accomplished artist and professional as yourself around how art and profit aren't at odds. Welcome. Janna (01:53) you Thanks for having me. I'm all about it. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (02:04) Of course, of course. I feel like the very first thing that people think of, right, is that you can't make money as an artist. Did you ever hear that phrase growing up and how did you push past that mindset? Janna (02:16) always heard that phrase growing up. I grew up in a crazy way, but I grew up with five parents. Almost all of them had some kind of creative passion, and 0 % of them did it for their career. My dad was an amazing musician, but he was a scientist. And my mom was an amazing poet and artist and paper crafter. Just never could figure out how to make any money with that. And I just remember being a kid and... LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (02:40) Hmm. Janna (02:44) aside from my dad who is research scientist and absolutely was like, know, crazily in love with his work, most of the adults in my life, every Sunday, you'd hear like, I gotta go to work tomorrow, blah, blah, blah, you know, and it was always just... going to work was something that was a drain on them. It was something that stopped them from doing the things they really loved and cared about. And I was like, well, I don't care how broke I need to be as an adult, but I don't want that. Like, I don't want that as my grownup-ness, my adult-ness. I want not to grumble on Sundays. As they call it now, the Sunday scaries, right? Like, I don't want that life. And I never did. So... LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (02:59) Mm-hmm. ⁓ you 8. Mm-hmm. Right. Janna (03:22) Even though it, my one dad is very, very practical. And I remember saying something to him when I was maybe, I don't know, 11 or 12 about how, you know, I wanted to be a photographer or I wanted to be an artist or I wanted to be a poet or I wanted to do, you know, like all these creative things when I grew up and he was like, I could see him like having a panic attack, like, no, you know, this kid's gonna live in our house forever. And I remember him saying like, well, you you have to have a day job. If you'd want to be an artist, you'd have to have a day job. And I was like, well, I guess maybe I could be an orthodontist, like, because I had braces. And I remember that, like, the workers in the office were the people who actually put on the braces and did all of the work. And then the orthodontist came in and just, looked in your mouth and said it was good and made all the money. And I was like, well, that sounds like the job, right? If you're going to do it. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (03:53) Hmm. Thanks. Yeah, that's for me. want that. Janna (04:13) Right? I had that as my, I think it appeased my parents when I was like 10, 12 years old that someday I would be an orthodontist. It's obviously never happened. But... LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (04:16) Bye. I'm here. Janna (04:22) I, when I was deciding what to do when I was gonna go away to college, cause you know, as a college or a high school senior, people are always saying like, what are you gonna do? What are you gonna study? Where are you gonna go? Blah, blah, blah. And you know, if you're the kind of kid that quote unquote has a lot of potential and doesn't always live up to it, as most girls who have ADHD are by the time they're a senior in high school. I was really frustrated by all these. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (04:45) Mm-hmm. Janna (04:48) kind of people expecting that I was supposed to know what I wanted to do and that I was supposed to be passionate about something that had potential to pay off quote unquote as a job. And I was like, I don't care. like creative writing. I like making art, whatever. And my mom was so, she couldn't make any money off art, but she still wanted me to do it anyway. And she found, LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (05:09) That's wonderful. Janna (05:11) when you take the SATs and you say you like creative writing, then all of sudden you start getting like all of these college brochures for schools that have programs like that. And she found this one, the flyer was really outdated, but the people with like Coke bottle glasses in it, like obviously like 70s, 80s photos. I was like, who has never updated this? It's like 2000, you know. But she saw that they had a creative writing scholarship at the school. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (05:24) down. I'm gonna love it. Well, Janna (05:35) And she was like, I think, you your poems are great. I think you should apply for this scholarship. And I was such a punk ass kid. was like, yeah, whatever, mom. I'm like, I don't know which one of these poems are good. You know, I just like writing them. You pick them, you send them. And of course, because she was awesome. She did. She went through, I gave her a huge stack of stuff. She picked out the ones she thought were the best. She sent them off and I won it. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (05:40) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing! Janna (05:56) So I ended up going to this teeny tiny little school in the mountains of North Carolina, like moving from Buffalo to the school where I didn't know anyone. I had never even seen it before and I just said, yes, I'm going there. And took off and went to this crazy school to do creative writing. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (06:02) Hmm Mm-hmm. I love that. What did you feel like when you won the award, Janna? Were you like, oh, tell us about that. Did you realize maybe I can do something creative and make it my career path? Tell me about that moment for you. Janna (06:31) I mean, I knew at that point that my poems were good because I would read them at places and people would be like, these are really good, you know? So like, in some ways at that point, I mean, I knew that my mom was always gonna be my biggest fan and that she would, she could tell me that my poems were really good, but. having that validation that people that weren't related to me or my friends were like, these are good. These are worth spending your time on developing these skills. That was really validating. But it definitely was not like, I'm going to go to school for creative writing and then make money at that. ⁓ I did kind of have this sort of... LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (06:58) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Janna (07:07) back pocket idea of touring around the country as a slam poet because I had already been doing poetry slams and you know the feature poets were all poets from other cities who were touring around and doing these feature things and they were getting paid like that a lot but like they were getting paid to do that to travel around and I was like that would be cool. I would like to do that but everyone in my life, all of the adults in my life, I was definitely very much raised as like you you wash your face you brush your teeth you go to college. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (07:12) Love. ⁓ Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Janna (07:35) Like, if you're not gonna go to college, you better have a damn good plan of what else you're gonna be doing. And the world was very different then. It wasn't like you could easily get a good gig in the trades or something like that. I mean, it was just like, you go to college because you're to. And now everyone I know has like hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and is still working at Starbucks. So it's not the guaranteed high paying good job that I... LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (07:47) Right. Yeah, we all hope that turns out. Janna (08:00) quote-unquote every college degree would get you that it used to be. So ⁓ I went because I thought I was supposed to. And I was like, that's the next step. You graduate high school, you go to college, and then you figure out what you want to do. And once I got there, I realized that they didn't really have a creative writing major for undergrad. The school was really well known for their creative writing master's program. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (08:03) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mmm. Mm-hmm. Janna (08:24) still is, but they only had English Lit. They didn't have Creative Writing. And if you took the English Lit major, you got to take three Creative Writing classes in all four years. I know, and I was like, right. And I kept looking through like, what are the other required classes to do that major? And I was like, I don't want to Chaucer. I don't want to read Milton. Like I am so over reading work by old dead white guys. Like I don't want to do it. I don't care. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (08:34) That doesn't seem to make any sense. Mm-hmm. Good. Mmm. Janna (08:51) And I don't want to spend my time doing that. It doesn't interest me in the slightest. And it's not, that's not the kind of poetry I like to write anyway, or the kind of poetry I like to read. So it was like, that's not, I'm not passionate about that in any way. So during the freshman orientation where I had, you know, gone to the school to be a creative writing major, I guess, I thought anyway, I just started looking through the course catalog and saying, well, what other classes do they have here? ⁓ LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (08:55) Hmm. Right. right. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Janna (09:18) because that's obviously not the major I want to take. ⁓ And luckily the scholarship I got wasn't like contingent on taking that major, which was cool. And so I just looked through what they had and they had an entire book arts department at this school. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (09:20) Mm-hmm. amazing. Janna (09:33) and they had like paper making and book binding and print making and all these different art classes. I was like, I didn't even know you could take classes in that. Like that's cool. So I went and met with the teacher who taught all those. And I was like, look, I love this. I've been making my own journals and folders. My mom did rubber stamps. Like, you know, I grew up with paper crafting all around me in my house. And I was like, I love this. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (09:40) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Janna (09:55) And so she advised me which of the classes I was likely to have a spot in because most of them were full of upper class art majors. And so I took a couple of those classes. I took an artist books and illustration class and learned basic bookbinding skills and how to illustrate all in one class, which is awesome. And then I took a paper making class. And at the end of my freshman year, after taking those, I took a class about LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (10:10) Yeah. Janna (10:19) Gandhi, searching for truth. It was definitely a hippie-dippie school, ⁓ which is fine. And so I took all these like weird classes and then I met with my advisor and I said, hey man, these are all the classes I took. What major am I working toward? And he was like, those are all elective, so nothing. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, shit, like what am I supposed to do? I'm here on scholarship. My mom is broke. My family is broke. And at that point you couldn't take unlimited student loans. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (10:21) Amazing. Yeah. no! Right. Mmm. Janna (10:49) you could only take what you were actually qualified to pay back someday. ⁓ Because I'm in that little sweet spot of like not quite millennial, like not Gen X, but not millennial. Like I'm in the zennial five, that five years where like we grew up without internet. And then by the time we graduated college cell phones were a thing, you know, that weird little sweet spot. And I was like, you know, what am I supposed to do? I can't do five years. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (10:52) Mm-hmm. Mmm. Yeah. Janna (11:13) Like they'll never give me enough money to do five years here. So what am I supposed to do? And he asked me a question that changed my whole life. He was like, what do you want to do? I was like, well, I want to be an artist and I don't want to be broke. How do I do that? And then exactly. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (11:22) Hmm. Right. That's such a simple question, right? Like, what do you want to do? And I think that's so powerful that so many of us, even at this age, what do I want to do? Or we're reaching a point where what we're doing isn't working anymore. What do you want to do? And so I love that he put that question to you. And then please continue back with your answer. And how do I do both of these things, right? Not be broken, do art. Janna (11:48) Yeah, I was like, you how can I be an artist? You know, what is the thing that the successful artists learn? How do they do that? Because obviously there are successful artists out there. There are artists who make their living like that. And it's not just once they're dead, which they like to tell you. But there are there are creatives who are very successful. And I'm like, what is, you know, what do they know that everybody else doesn't? And he said, you should do that as your major. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (11:59) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Right. ⁓ Janna (12:15) And I looked at him like he was insane. Right, like how to make money as an artist and not be broke, right? Like how do you be an artist and not be broke? Right, he's like, you should do that as your major. And I was like, dude, that's not a major. If it was a major, all the artists would take it. I looked in the catalog, it doesn't exist. And he said, we have an integrative studies major here. He's like, do you know how rare it is to be 19 and know exactly what you want to do for your whole life? He's like, LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (12:15) Which was what? was art? Or create art? can I have that as my major? Right? Yeah. Janna (12:42) If they knew how to teach you that, somebody would be teaching it. They don't. So you should take your four year opportunity that you have at this school that has, you know, that's open to figuring something like this out ⁓ and make up your own major and spend the rest of your time here learning how to make money as an artist. And long, very long story short, I did make up my own crazy major. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (12:45) Mmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Janna (13:08) where I integrated entrepreneurial business and creative art together as one course of study. And by the time I graduated, I had a 25 page paper about my experience. I had a full business plan. I had a print catalog. I had a piece of shit website that you couldn't buy anything on. And for business cards and for all intents and purposes, like I was ready to start a business selling art. Like I was already selling art at 22 years old. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (13:08) Yeah. Wow. Thank you. No. Yeah. That's amazing. I want to hear about that, Janna, because we've talked before about it's... It seems easy, combine the business and the art. like when you're creating something that takes a lot of time to create, right? It's not like you're just, mean, like Warhol was able to figure this out, like in a way, right? And that's I feel like when he was like really able to like take off. it's like, how do you establish a business model that will support something that's so unique? Every project is unique and intensive and you want to give like all of yourself to it. So I would love to hear a little bit about that and how you navigated that. continue to navigate that. Janna (14:05) I mean, at the time when I was developing the major, I went and talked to all the professors in the art department. And I was like, do you have to give to students who major in art? Like, why can't I just major in art and then learn what I need to learn? Why is this not built into your art major? ⁓ And they had one, two credit class that seniors could take called LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (14:13) Hmm. Yeah. Janna (14:31) business for artists that you don't do until you're a senior, first of all. Like you don't even think about how are you going to use this as a skill for the rest of your life and a career. And I asked them, I said, can I take that class as part of my integrative studies major? And they said, no, you can only take it if you're an art major. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (14:33) ⁓ boys have won! Ooh, rude. Janna (14:50) Yeah, right? And I was like, okay, well, since I can't take this class, can you at least, you know, give me the syllabus so that I can get an idea of the kinds of things that you teach in this class so that I can go learn them on my own. And all that they really did in that class was teaching how to catalog your work, how to photograph your work and how to pitch yourself to galleries. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (15:03) Mm-hmm. Mmm. Mmm. Mmm. That's not enough. Janna (15:14) And I said, what do you teach if you don't want to be a gallery artist? If you don't make the kind of art that is in a gallery? And they said, oh, well, it's probably not for you. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (15:18) Thank Mm-hmm. Janna (15:28) I was like nothing, they teach nothing, absolutely nothing about running a business. They teach nothing about commercial art, nothing about custom work, commission based work, ⁓ public art, like none of that, none of that at all. And so I said, well, I guess I don't need that class. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (15:37) Mmm. Mmm. Yeah. Right. Good thing I wasn't an art major. Janna (15:46) Yeah, right? And so I ended up really thinking about, you know, what was the successful thing about all these artists? And I took this class called Women's Artistic Vision. ⁓ And in it was probably the first time in most of our lives that we only learned about female artists and the work that they created and why they created it and how they became successful and all of these things. And was all these amazing, inspiring women. The textbook for that class was LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (15:57) Mmm. Hmm. Janna (16:14) called the pink glass swan, I think is what it's called. ⁓ And it was so cool to see all these women who forge their own path, right? Because the art world is built for men, like every other freaking world. It's built for men and it's built around the careers of men, the lifestyles of men. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (16:18) interest. Like every, like literally the whole world. Janna (16:37) the people who make the decisions as to who's cool, who's not cool, who makes money, who doesn't make money, it's all met. And for a long time, I think female artists tried to make art that imitated male art. So it would blend in and they could maybe slip in and get a spot in the gallery. But I think really the world changed a lot for women artists when the women artists were like, I don't care if I... LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (16:43) Mm-hmm. Mmm. Sure. Janna (17:05) have a seat at that table, I'm gonna make my own table. Like Judy Chicago is gonna make her own table. And she did, literally made her own table, right? And learning about how women said, I'm gonna create my own space for this. And that's how I'm gonna be successful. I'm going to make art that means something to the world and to other women and to the other women artists who see it. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (17:08) Mmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Yes. Mmm. Mm-hmm. Janna (17:31) And I'm going to create those opportunities and the way that women artists work together and collaborate on things in ways that, you know, traditionally male artists don't do that. There's solitary creatures most of the time. Not to like talk too much shit about male artists because some of them are great. But I'm just saying like, I knew that the kind of art I wanted to make was very, I wouldn't say just feminine, but the LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (17:36) one. Right. Just... Janna (17:54) the people who cared about it most, the people who were affected by the stuff I was making most, were other women. I was like, want, you know, obviously learning about business, I was like, that's my target market, right? Like those are the people who are gonna buy my art or. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (18:05) Yeah, right. Check that box. That's a huge part of business is knowing who your target audience is. So big hurdle left already. Janna (18:14) Yeah, and I started thinking about, you know, from taking that class and kind of building this crazy major, because I had to pick all the classes I wanted to take in all four years before I was even a sophomore, which was nuts. And I started thinking about, you know, what are the qualities that these amazing women artists have? And I was like, they're really good at communicating and they're really good at working with people. They're really good at kind of LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (18:24) That's crazy. Mmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Janna (18:41) pitching themselves and presenting an idea and breaking a barrier and doing things that haven't been done before and convincing somebody that that's a good idea. And I was like, what are all the skills that you need to be able to do that? And I'm like, it's social work. It's social work. It's being able to read different kinds of people and know how to get people to say things they don't know how to say. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (18:51) Yeah. Yeah. Mmm. Mmm. Yeah. Janna (19:08) to hear things that people are saying that they're not really saying, and to get an idea of, this person reacts well when you approach them this way, and this person reacts well when you approach them this way, and really learning how to interact with people and work with people. And so I built a whole component into my major, all based around skills of helping others. And I was like, I want to make the kind of art that... LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (19:11) Yeah. Mmm. you Yeah. I love that. Janna (19:32) I want to make art for other people. I want to make art that people dream in their head and they don't know how to make it. And, you know, really special things that are super meaningful for individuals. And that's where I started doing that kind of stuff. And that really launched my art career with doing that. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (19:35) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I love that. I think that's so special about that is only a woman could have solved that problem. you, right? Like only you could have solved that problem. And what was that piece is, okay, target audience, like check, like communication, check. But then realizing is that like social work, like component of it, I think is something that women are geared more towards as being more communicative and emotional and connection, right? And that's like a very like female centric. like profession to go into. So it just, I love that so much that it's like harnessing those gifts as like a woman to solve this very like practical businessy problem, right? Like you don't have to think like a man. You don't have to act like a man. Be beautiful you and be a woman and like you're gonna fucking crack it like it's never been cracked before and continue to help others and do it in this really wonderful way. So I just love that so much. think that's, know. such like a fantastic insight and advice for women artists everywhere, in professional women everywhere to keep in mind. And so you took that and you became a professional artist. Janna, tell us a bit about how taking what you learned in college and then applying it to the real world to really build a business that sustains you and is a career and a profession, how did what you learned in college and what you had prepared for change as you were actually Janna (20:52) Thank you. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (21:11) doing it and what were some of those lessons and ways along the way that you learned. Janna (21:15) Oh, there were so many. I mean, I graduated school in 2004, right? So, totally dating myself here. About to be 43. Yeah, proud as hell, 43. So lucky to get to be 43 soon, in a couple weeks. So first of all, anyone who's out there who's like, oh, I'm getting older, okay? Growing old is a privilege denied to many, right? LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (21:16) Bye. Mm-hmm. That's okay. I graduated in 2004 from college too. Both my mom and dad. Yeah, sure. Happy birthday. No, I love completely, I completely agree. Janna (21:41) Being 43 is way better than not being 43. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (21:44) 100 % and I feel like being in your 40s you've learned so much I was like if I knew what I knew now when I was in my 20s like people would have don't even know what hit them right like there's such a beautiful wisdom in life that you learn along the way so don't anybody talk shit about being in your 40s 50 60s like right like every time is the perfect time of life so I totally agree so tell us about your business learnings Janna Janna (22:06) Yeah, I, when I graduated, there was no social media. It was just starting to be a thing. So I remember being, you know, telling people as a senior, like, oh, this is my major, I'm starting a business, I'm gonna make handmade journals in stationery. And people were like, what? They're like, no one's gonna write in a journal ever again. Everyone will be on Life Journal in the future. I remember Life Journal. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (22:24) Okay, good luck! Everyone will be on what's my gosh, what was the page? It wasn't my space. What was it? Tumblr. Everyone's gonna do, have like their Tumblr page. They're not gonna write in a journal. ⁓ Janna (22:38) Well, is still long before Tumblr, long before MySpace. Like neither of those existed. It was LiveJournal. Like LiveJournal was the first place where people could have a blog because it was really hard to build a website in 2004. Like there were no like drag and drop platforms. It was AngelFire. Okay. That was the closest you could get to something that was relatively easy. And that's where my website was. Don't try to find it. It's probably still there. And so between 2004, LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (22:48) amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Angel fire. my god. No. Janna (23:05) And when I actually made my business official and started running it like an actual business instead of just making art for my friends and stuff on the side, it was quite a few years. And I had a lot of life get in the way. As a junior in college, three weeks into school year, my mom died. ⁓ And... LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (23:20) Mmm. Janna (23:22) She didn't have a will and had a house that was falling apart here in Buffalo. And I was going to school almost a thousand miles away in North Carolina. And all of a sudden I was an instant adult. Like I owned half of this house with my brother and we had no money, but because she didn't have a will, we didn't really own it, but we were responsible for it. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (23:23) So. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Janna (23:42) We couldn't get home equity lines of credit or anything like that because it wasn't in our names. And so I had all of these real world grown up adulting problems that all the other college students around me just didn't have. ⁓ And then four months, pretty much almost four months to the day after my mom died, my dorm burnt to the ground with all my stuff in it. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (23:54) Mm-hmm. crazy crazy on your birthday on her birthday Janna (24:05) Her birthday, my mom's birthday, the first birthday she would have had after she died. While I was in it. The day before the new semester started too. So it was like, you're about to start your second semester junior year of college and also you have no stuff, nowhere to live and have way more grief than most people will ever have in their entire lives. And trauma from being in a building that was literally on fire. ⁓ LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (24:10) Stop. crazy. Janna (24:28) and waking up with your hand smelling like sulfur for weeks. It was insane. And so it was kind of in the middle of all of that that I was saying, I still want to do this as my career. And I had so much more immediacy about it because it was like, life is so short. If that fire alarm hadn't gone off the way that it did or when it did, LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (24:31) my Yeah. Mm-hmm. Janna (24:51) I might not be here at all. knowing that my mom died at 54 years old, and it's like, even though I had just turned 20, I was like, that's like tomorrow. It goes so fast. so between graduating and when I actually was able to turn it into a business, I mean, I had to go back to Buffalo and get any job I could get in order to keep my house from falling down. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (25:00) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I'm going to go to bed. Janna (25:14) because I wasn't paying rent. I had this house that needed so much work to it. New roof, new siding, new paint, lots of structural work, a lot. needed a lot of work. And Buffalo wasn't having its Renaissance at all then in 2004. So I graduated college and the first job I could really get that was a full-time gig was working at a gas station. I was an assistant manager at a gas station. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (25:36) Wow. Wow. Janna (25:39) And I used to wear a pin on my uniform that said, straight, I'm a college grad, paper or plastic. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (25:44) Stop. ⁓ Janna (25:46) Because, you know, people tend to go into places like that. They go into service businesses and they look down at the people who are working behind the counter. Like, you must suck. You must have failed at life to have to work this job. You could be so successful, but you work here. You serve me all day long. And you can tell the people who've worked in that job from the people who haven't, because the people who haven't are almost always assholes to the people. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (25:56) I love you. Hmm. Hmm. I'm here. Yeah, I'm I'm fine. Janna (26:13) And having that job taught me so much about business, about managing people, about dealing with customers, about inventory, running payroll, managing your pricing based on your competitors, doing competitive analysis. I mean, you don't realize that the person running that gas station is also doing all of that stuff and then selling you lottery tickets, right? LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (26:21) Sure. Mmm. Right, right, or a bottle of water. Yeah. Janna (26:36) There was a trip, so like I was working behind the counter and also doing the paperwork and doing the scheduling and contacting people. if the cashier doesn't come in, you have to stay. you know, like making those sacrifices in order to keep that business running, cleaning the floors, ordering the coffee, you know, like all of those kind of day to day juggling things that you could never learn in school. You could never, ever learn those things unless you were doing it. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (26:41) Wow. I'm I'm ready. No, unless you're doing it. So valuable. So valuable. Janna (27:04) So I got to learn all that stuff on somebody else's time. And it was so eye-opening for me ⁓ to be able to do that. But I have been thinking a lot about the five years I worked there, five years. But that gas station wasn't like any other gas station. ⁓ And it was this teeny tiny little kind of like a shack. I mean, the whole entire store was probably like 100 square feet. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (27:06) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mmm. we need. Janna (27:29) ⁓ including the office and all the back stock and everything. But there was an old folks community, retirement community, kind of right around the corner from there. And so this gas station ended up being this little neighborhood hub. I don't know if it's still like that, ⁓ but when I worked there, the guy who was the manager there, he was really invested in the community and he took a lot of pride in working at that place. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (27:38) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Hmm. Mmm. Mmm. Janna (27:55) when a lot of people wouldn't. And he knew his customers, right? Like he knew all of their names and he knew what they needed. He knew what was important to them. And he knew that a lot of them walked with canes and walkers or had like a little speedy scooter and could hardly get into the store because there wasn't a ramp and like all this stuff. And he said, these people can't make it down to the grocery store that is two blocks from here. You know, they can't get that far. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (27:59) Mm-hmm. Mm. you Mmm. Janna (28:22) most of the time and come back with groceries. we, even though it was a tiny little store, he started carrying basic groceries there because he's like, the people who shop here need these things and they will buy them. And then he started doing, know, like most gas stations do that kind of donate a dollar, you know, raise money for Jerry Lewis kind of thing. But we did lots of other fundraisers for people in our community and we would, you know, do sponsor a family for Christmas and that kind of stuff. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (28:26) Run. Yeah. ⁓ Mm. Mm-hmm. me. Janna (28:48) I remember we raised like $5,000 for this one family, single mom with a one-year-old. And I was like, she's in a one-room apartment, you know? Like she doesn't need $5,000 worth of toys for this baby, but we could make her whole year and then also make the whole year of several other people, older people from this retirement community or other people that live in this neighborhood who. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (28:54) you You won. Thank you. Janna (29:11) don't have a little kid who are all by themselves and nobody ever buys them a Christmas gift or thinks about them. And I was like, we have the power to change those people's lives and to let them know that somebody sees them, that they're important. so we ended up, I pitched it to my boss. I was like, can we take some of this money and can we buy some gift cards to the grocery store and the pet store for this lady who lives around the corner whose husband died 30 years ago. She's been alone for 30 years. I was like, can we do that for her? And we did. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (29:14) Mm-hmm. And then... Yeah. Mm-hmm. you Hmm. Janna (29:40) Literally that woman still sends me birthday cards for all my kids. You know, like she sends me an anniversary card on my wedding anniversary and I knew her before I met my husband. you know, working in that job and being part of a community like that and having that guy as my boss really changed the way that I saw what was possible owning a business and what. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (29:44) Amazing. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I love that. Janna (30:06) purpose-driven businesses can do. long before I was running my own company, like really running it like a company, I learned about how powerful you can be as a business owner in a community to see the people who live around you, to see your customers, and to really show them that you care. And people came back to that store because we were there. They didn't come back to that store necessarily because we carried the brand of cigarettes they liked to buy. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (30:08) Mm-hmm. Yes. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Right. Right, right. was the person, that human connection, that like emotional connection. And I think, you know, I feel like saying doing well by doing good like diminishes it a little bit, but like, you don't have to be a billionaire or a millionaire to do well and do good in the community. And you can learn these lessons or even if you're at a job right now that wasn't in your plan and you're listening. there's things to learn that will benefit you down the line when you do take that step. And so to look at every single job opportunity, stage in your life, person you come into contact with has something to teach you that's going to not only make you a better human, but like a better business owner and entrepreneur. That's just so powerful. And I just love that so much. Janna (31:17) Yeah, and after I quit working there, I was doing teaching artists work and I would kind of pick up anything that seemed like it could direct me toward being paid to do art. I would say yes to it. And I was like vastly overextended, but you know, I have been a yes person forever. If there's an opportunity there, I'm going to take it. Even if I don't sleep. Like it's not probably not the greatest for my physical health, but LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (31:28) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Janna (31:44) It's awesome for my mental health to do those kinds of things. And I know that I would be the kind of person who would always wonder what if, if I didn't jump on something that seemed kind of scary at the time. So I did teaching artists stuff. I had never taught anybody anything. And I said yes to that. And I went and I taught these kids and you know, even more so that showed me that one person has the ability to change somebody's life forever. One conversation. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (31:46) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Janna (32:10) with somebody can change someone's life forever. Giving one person your undivided attention and really seeing who they are and what they need and giving them that can change the way that they operate in the world for the rest of their life. doing that and working with these kids who are in like sixth and seventh and eighth grade where they're so moldable, they're already starting to be their own person, but they're open. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (32:13) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Janna (32:37) to redirection forever. The things that you learn in sixth, seventh and eighth grade are gonna be the things that stick with them. like you won't forget about seventh grade when you become an adult. You forget a lot of things about kindergarten and pre-K, but you don't forget about seventh grade, right? Like it's either kind of make or break you kind of time. ⁓ And so I got to also have that experience before running my own company. And I ended up going to work for a company that sold body jewelry. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (32:45) Sure. No, I still remember. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Janna (33:06) on the internet. ⁓ I was a photo editor, so I did lot of Cropby Crop, Savey Save every day. I listened to a lot of podcasts and I spent 40 hours a week sitting at a desk doing Photoshop, which was also not great for my body. But the whole time I worked there, I was like, this is more creative than working at a gas station. This seems like it's more towards success. But I still always wanted to have my own LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (33:07) Amazing. Yeah. Uh-huh. Hmm. Hmm. Janna (33:31) company and do my own thing. And I was doing my own thing kind of on the side, very, very small. And I had this kind of, I don't know, outlook about it. That it was like, if I make money cool, if I didn't, I made art and that's also cool. And after I got pregnant with my first son, I'd been working at that company for about five years. ⁓ And after I had him, I said, hey, I can't afford full-time childcare. Can I? LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (33:36) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Janna (33:56) work part of my week from home. Two days in the office, two days at home. And they said no. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (33:59) Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm. We don't like that. Janna (34:02) They said, right? And I'm like, thank God it was pre-COVID. But that's what they said. said, yeah, they were like, you have to either come back into the office full-time or figure something else out. And I was like, well, you don't pay me enough to cover health care and daycare. So I guess I'm going to figure something else out because I'm not going to go into your work for 40 hours a week, come home with negative dollars, and pay someone else to raise my kid. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (34:05) Yeah, that was the way it was. Hmm. red. and lose money. Yeah. Janna (34:27) That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. And so in a lot of ways, working there and having the overall leadership of that company run by a dude, run by somebody who didn't see me as a person who had a family, who had a life outside of working there. And they could have had me, stellar employee that I'd been for five years. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (34:29) Mm-hmm. Surprise. Mmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. their loss. ⁓ Janna (34:52) a lot for them. And they could have continued to have me as an employee, but they weren't willing to see me as a person and make concessions for me to continue working there. And they say, like, nobody wants to work. Nobody wants to work for a place that doesn't care about them. And they showed me by saying, we don't care. You have to come back. But they didn't really care about me. I was just yet another number on their way to success. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (34:56) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Janna (35:18) But it was terrifying being pushed out of my job like that. And we had a huge mortgage. We just bought this commercial building that we live in now. And all of a sudden it was like, have this five year mortgage, right? It had to be paid off in five years. Big mortgage. So it wasn't like we could just, you know, kind of refinance and hope for the best. It was like a lot. And all of a sudden, I had no health insurance. I had no paycheck. We had LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (35:20) truly. Mmm. rain. ⁓ Mm. Janna (35:40) added cost of a kid plus the added cost of that kid's health insurance. So it was huge and terrifying because it was the first time in my entire life since I was 20 years old and lost my mom that I wasn't, that I had to be reliant on somebody else financially. But my husband was really awesome and he was like, if you made more money than I'd stay home, but you don't. So just stay home and. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (35:43) Mmm. Hmm Janna (36:04) do your book thing. That's what he said. Do your book thing. And I now realize that he thought I was going to be a stay-at-home mom that did craft shows on the weekends sometimes. I finally have time and freedom and support to pursue this dream that I have had literally sitting on my shelf for 12 years. I still have my business plan from college. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (36:14) Ha ha ha. Mmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Wow. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Janna (36:30) sitting on my shelf right now in my office. And it had the same name. Like I called it Papercraft Miracles because making this art and sharing it with people as a college kid, making art about grief, making art about trauma and what I was learning about coming back to life and what was important and what success really means. All those things I learned as a 20 year old kid and I was making all this art and sharing it with people and they would cry. And I was like, LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (36:35) Mm-hmm. Amazing. All the way back line. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Janna (36:58) That's what I need to be doing, right? Like I need to be out changing the world in positive ways. That's my future. And I finally had the space to do that and the freedom to do that, the support to do that. And I was like, I'm not gonna just be a stay at home mom. Not that there's anything wrong with being a stay at home mom, it's hard as hell. But I like, I don't want that. Losing my mom when she was 54, you know, I was like, I know that. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (37:04) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Janna (37:24) if you put off the things that you love, for the someday I'll travel when I'm retired, someday I'll do the things I really love when I can afford to, someday you're never gonna be there. Right? LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (37:27) Yeah. Mm-hmm. It's true. Someday never comes, because it's always just today. Right? That's all we got. Janna (37:40) Right, right. And it's, you know, it's when you don't put any time into those things that fill you with joy, why bother with everything else? Like, you know, why ride that struggle bus and work so hard at somebody else's job? It's somebody else's dream. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (37:51) Mm-hmm Right. Yep. Mm-hmm. Janna (38:02) just to pay the bills. And I'm like, I'm not saying that everyone should just walk out the door and quit their job and just, you know, sit in the corner of their house and make art every day, right? You know, there's realistic factors as far as paying a mortgage and doing the thing. But for me, I had been stuck in that. I can't afford to start this business. We have a mortgage, we have a kid, I have health insurance, this, that, blah, blah. I have to stay in this job because of these reasons. But when that job disappeared, LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (38:10) Right. You need a plan. Hmm ⁓ Mmm. Mm-hmm. Janna (38:30) What perfect fuel for that fire to jump head first into the thing I always dreamed about doing. And I pulled that business plan off the shelf and I know you asked me like 20 minutes ago, kind of what changed, what did I do along the way? So much of that business plan, while it was great and detailed and I got a hundred on it, was totally irrelevant for the world that I was in in 2015. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (38:33) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Thank you. Janna (38:54) when I quit my job, end of 2015, 2016. It when I was officially unemployed for the first time as an adult. And I started looking around at the life that I actually lived in. I like, own property, that's awesome, but I have a big mortgage, right? So I was like, I need to start making some money. Because at the time, my health insurance was like $500 a month. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (39:01) Thank you. Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, kids, man. Janna (39:17) ⁓ for those days of 2016 when self-employment health insurance was only $500 a month. But I was like, that was my first goal. I was like, I want to make sure that I can at least cover the cost of my health insurance with this business. So was like, I want to do whatever I can do to make that much. And I was like, but I also am home with the baby and I'm learning how to be a mom and kind of learning how to not wake up to an alarm every day and just have that freedom to think. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (39:30) Mm, mm-hmm. Thank Janna (39:45) and to feel out the way I wanted to run my life and how I didn't want to miss all the times with my son, but I also wanted to grow a business. So I was like, I learned that a work at home mom is a thing. I learned that a mom printer is a thing. And I was like, that's what I am. I do both those things. They are integrated together. And some days I taught him how to use a spoon. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (39:49) you you Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Janna (40:09) And some days he destroyed a box of tissues in the floor of my studio while I made content for Instagram. But I started looking into how can I grow this business while I'm also at home with a kid without childcare. The only time I had childcare was when my husband was not working in the weekend. So I was like, it's social media, it's free. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (40:15) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Okay. Mm-hmm. Janna (40:32) It's totally free. So I had had a Facebook page for my business for a couple of years before this. But I really was like, people are telling stories on Instagram in a different way than they are on Facebook. And so I just started documenting, you know, here's a photo of me holding a baby in a baby carrier and he's asleep. And I'm like hunched over my art desk, working on a custom project for somebody. And I would tell the story of what I was making and who I was making it for and why it was special. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (40:43) Mmm. Mm-hmm. Janna (40:59) And I used Instagram like my journal and just really was super open and genuine about, yes, I'm doing this. Yes, it's amazing. It's scary as fuck. It's like, I have to make money doing this or we can't pay our mortgage or take care of ourselves. And it just ended up being the kind of thing that people were like, I love this. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (41:02) Mmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Janna (41:24) It inspired so many other people to say, I'm also home with the baby and I think about doing these things that I love. Maybe I can do that some of the time too. And I got all these comments and messages from people saying like, you inspired me to start working on my book when my kid was asleep instead of sweeping the floor. You inspired me to start doing this thing or that thing and to go back to this thing that I thought I would never have time for. And the storytelling is really... LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (41:32) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. No. Janna (41:51) You know, that's what I do all day long, right? Yeah, I make art, but I tell stories. I work with people and I tell stories and it goes all goes back to that social work aspect. Fostering connection with people and in this ever increasingly digital world, going back to those people who naysayed my business in 2004 as a senior in college, A, as a woman who wanted to be an artist and a business owner, which they all thought was stupid. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (41:53) Short...ling? ⁓ Right, sure. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Janna (42:19) But also that they were like, everyone's gonna be on LiveJournal. And I said, there's a really different quality to writing someone a physical letter and getting a physical letter in the mail. There's a different quality about writing in a journal. And while there weren't smartphones back then, I mean, maybe a couple people had them, but nobody I knew had one, right? LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (42:22) Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Janna (42:43) You know, I do still technically use Instagram a lot as my journal, but I also have an actual journal that I write in. you know, people started coming back to that right around 2014, 2015. They started saying, oh, I'm gonna send out actual wedding invitations because e-vites are so impersonal. Right? People were like, no one's ever gonna get wedding invitations ever again. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (42:47) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Right, sure. Right? Janna (43:11) The more that our world becomes digital like that, the more separated we are from each other. We don't have that community. People are ordering food and having it dropped off at their door, they don't even see that person's face. Right? And so the world that I made, that community that I made working in that gas station, it doesn't exist the same way for a lot of people. They don't interact with other people face to face. And LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (43:16) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Janna (43:36) Why do think everybody's so depressed and lonely? They're all separated. They don't have that community. They don't rely on other people. They don't see all the ways that humanity is an ecosystem, right? We are the things in the forest and we rely on each other to survive. And when we don't have that, you realize that you don't have any support system. You don't have people to talk to. You don't have that connection and you do feel alone. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (43:39) Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. We are committed. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Janna (44:04) and it's not good for people. And so I have really kind of dedicated everything about my business to fostering connection, building community, helping people to celebrate in person together. Because it's so much harder to be a dick to somebody's face than it is in a Facebook comment. You know what I mean? Like it's... LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (44:12) Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. ⁓ my gosh, right? It's so easy to be a troll. yet, so I've never been like done it, but there's people that find it incredibly easy to do it because it's a hit and run, essentially a digital hit and run, you know? I just think that's so interesting too, like when it comes to. Janna (44:27) Yeah. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (44:38) be running a business and making art into a business, right? Like we might comment it from a practical standpoint, right? Like, and there are practical aspects to it, of course, right? Like the reality, you have to make enough money to cover your mortgage or health insurance. But. You really soar and find that ongoing success when you share the process and connect with people, right? And show them why you are special and they're special, right? In that connection, because it's a recognition between two people. And from there, you're able to branch off and really, I feel like, get momentum to make something special there. What's been your experience with that, I'm sorry, my Midwestern accent. I knew my Midwestern accent would come out. when it comes to hitting those revenue goals and how have you figured out how to, we talk about in a way maybe systematize but not a bottom line for yourself and your business through all the wonderful things that you're doing, through the connections, through the art, how's that been able to work for you? Janna (45:37) systems, building systems. And it's not the kind of thing that I initially knew how to do, right? I mean, you know, can learn a lot in business school, you can learn a lot in school. But I started looking for a program that could actually help me figure out how to price the work that I was making properly. And I said the LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (45:38) Mmm. Hmm. Mm-hmm. Fascinating. Janna (45:55) Program I use is called CraftyBase. I started using it in 2013, which is kind of crazy. Found it in an Etsy blog. I was reading the Etsy blog in my free time before I had kids. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (46:04) it. Janna (46:06) reading about how are people tracking their expenses, how are people keeping track of what their materials are, because technically I'm a fine crafter, right? And a lot of the things do have material costs and they do have labor costs and things I learned from running somebody else's business, it was like, what is the cost of good soul? And it's different with art. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (46:15) Bye. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Janna (46:27) because a lot of times, you you may use $100 worth of paint and 10 hours worth of labor and then go sell that painting for $30,000 if you're famous enough, right? So it's not necessarily just this is how much it is. But I knew that I was undercharging because I couldn't afford my LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (46:36) Right. Formula. Mm-hmm. Janna (46:47) And I kept thinking, I'm making this work because I love it. I would buy this. And I was pricing it based on what I could afford. And the more I really started thinking about like, who's my target customer? I'm like, it's not me. It's not other artists, right? Artists don't have money. They are not buying my art. They can't afford to, they want to, but they can't most of the time, right? LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (46:51) Mmm. Mmmmm Yeah. Janna (47:11) And so when I really got tight on who is my target market, and I started doing networking with other business owners, not just with other artists, I started meeting people who were making money because of the way they were running their businesses. And I learned about how to develop systems and what works and what doesn't work. Lord, I wish I had had a good CRM years before I did. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (47:18) I am an animal. Mmm. Right? Sure. Janna (47:35) And Lord, I wish I knew I had ADHD years before I a good system that works for me. But yeah, really taking, I know it sounds crazy and boring for most artists, sometimes impossible for most artists to take that time to really figure out how am I going to keep track of all this stuff? When somebody messages me on Facebook and says, hey, I'm interested in this thing, how do I not forget that that person messaged me? LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (47:38) Hahaha! Mm-hmm. Mmm. rain. Janna (48:02) How do I not forget that that's where they messaged me so I can go back and read what it said? What I want to reach out to them again. ⁓ How can I get some kind of system to keep track of all those people? Because the more popular you get, the more successful you are, the more you have of those people. And some, you know, the business world is like, ooh, a leads funnel, right? I hate me a leads funnel. I hate it. I hate it. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (48:07) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Thanks. Yeah. Hahaha! Janna (48:27) I hate the whole idea of it. I hate the way it sounds. I hate the chain emails that you get afterwards that are automated. No offense to all the coaches who send them out, but I hate those. They're so impersonal. And you can tell that it's not sent to you. It's sent to the list of people who clicked on that button and put in their email address. Do I have some freebies? Yep, I do. But I don't put people into a funnel like that the same way. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (48:35) Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mmm. Mmm. Janna (48:53) I'm like, yeah, I'll give you that freebie. Then you know who I am. You think about it. You're on my regular email list. I send out regular emails. If you don't want that email, opt out of those emails. Pick only the ones you want. Whatever. That's cool. ⁓ So for me, having those systems and having a way for people to opt out of the emails they don't want and so stay on your list to learn about the things they do want. There's a lot of kind of that behind the scenes stuff. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (48:59) Mmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Janna (49:18) And I think partly, when I was in high school, did biochemical technology as my major, because the high school I went to had majors, which was really interesting. And I think because of that, I really get a little nerdy about data. And once I have learned how to use the systems and having my dad be a scientist, and he did so much data collection and research and things like that. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (49:25) Mmm. Mm. Janna (49:40) I think I do kind of get into that, not necessarily as an art, but as a science. And I think that part is of fun for me. ⁓ I always like balancing chemical equations and doing the finances. It's like that, you know? Like the balance sheet's gotta balance. You have to, like that's the whole point of it. And you're not figuring out how much is coming in and how much is going out and it doesn't match. Or what is the percentage of money that you make on this? LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (49:45) I mean it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. Mmm. Mmm. Janna (50:08) product that you sell. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (50:08) Yeah. What's your, yeah. Or like hire somebody that does like that or could do that for you, right? For, you know, whatever you can afford potentially. Cause right, like that's, what, that's one of the things about being a business owner, you have to wear all the hats until you can bring on good people that can help out with all those hats that you no longer want to wear that don't light you up as much as your zone of genius lights you up. So Janna, if someone listening wanted to start their own creative business, what's the first step that they should take? Janna (50:15) Yeah. By my course. No. ⁓ LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (50:37) Yes, you and you are. Please talk about that because you are launching a course that's specifically all about everything we talked today and so much more. Janna (50:45) Yes, so I do have a course. It is officially out into the world, available worldwide. It's called the Art of Business and the Business of Art. And it is literally decades in the making. Not only all the things that I learned making up my own major and doing that as a college kid, but also everything I've learned about being a working artist for 20 years, plus running a company, being a boss, having staff, doing all that stuff, building all those systems. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (51:04) Mm-hmm. Janna (51:11) All of that is in it. So we like to say that it's an online masterclass in creative entrepreneurship. ⁓ It will give you all of the little nitty gritty nuts and bolts about how to price your work, how to set up a spreadsheet, how to do a business plan, how to set up a marketing plan, how to figure out your ideal client profile. All of that stuff is in it, but from a creative artist lens, not a business lens. But it also has a whole section in it. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (51:13) Mm-hmm. Love it. Mm-hmm. and wobble. ⁓ Janna (51:39) about overcoming starving artists mentality, learning to value your time. Cause there's so many artists who are still in that. If I make money cool, if I didn't, I made art and that's also cool. And they think, I'm going to go do this craft show. And if I make the table feedback, then I made money. No, you didn't. No, you didn't. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (51:42) Mmm. Thank Right, yeah. Mmm. Mmm. Yeah. Janna (52:04) Right? If you didn't pay yourself per hour, you didn't cover your travel costs. You didn't cover all the meals you ate during that day. And then also figure out, okay, take those out. What do you got left after you made money at that show? Yeah, you covered the table fee. Did you cover any advertising you did? Any flyers you made? Did you get a new sign? Did you buy any new things to set up your table? Did you do any of that? Okay. That's all your basic expenses. Now what do you have left? What is the cost of goods sold of the things that you sold? LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (52:08) Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Janna (52:33) Because you could sell an item for $5, but you don't have $5 profit on that item. So it's already, you know, if you're good at it, 50 % of what's left after you take out all those expenses, was worth it. And sometimes those shows are worth it because you do it for advertising. You do it for brand awareness, not because it's a moneymaker, right? So there's a lot of that kind of stuff. And we do have a freebie. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (52:38) Right, true. Mmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Right. I'm going to Janna (52:59) We do have a freebie course about how to not suck at vendor fairs. That is part of the course and you can sign up to just get that as like a little sneak preview of what the course is like. But this course is like, it's the kind of thing where I put it out into the world because somebody else asked me to. didn't, you know, I... LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (53:15) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Janna (53:17) I knew I knew a lot about art and I knew a lot about business and I had all these things and I was like, someday it'd be cool to make a course and put all this info together. That's not my wheelhouse. I'm not great at doing that. And I worked with this woman named Becky Goldberg Petty who has her own company she just started called BGP Learning and she's like a ghostwriter for courses. She teaches people how to make their own courses. She takes their information, their knowledge, their content and she builds that structure. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (53:23) Thank you. I'm here. Mmm. Thanks. Yeah. Janna (53:44) So I worked together with her. She used to work for me. She's my official, the first HFB head flower bitch who worked for me making flowers here at our company. being able to have her work for me and then see her launch her own company after that and to be able to give her the support to do that. know, like it's best, right? The collaboration, the women working together to solve the problems, to bring those solutions to other women artists. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (53:50) Yeah. ⁓ That's awesome. Yes. Mm-hmm. Janna (54:10) So not only did we put this course out into the world, we purposely made it not super expensive as most courses like this would be ⁓ because most artists don't have money. They don't have that capital. Most moms don't have the capital to start that. And I wanted to make it accessible. ⁓ LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (54:16) Mmm. Yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm. I love it. Where can they find this course, Janna? Tell us where they can find it and where they can find you. Mm-hmm. Janna (54:29) is on our website. ⁓ You can access it at papercraftmiracles.com slash course. I made it really easy to find it. There's tons of info on there about it. You can access the freebie and get all the stuff on there and then click the link to take you over to Becky's hosting site where you can actually buy the full course and take that over there. But we actually started a fund called the Mama Birdie Child Care Fund to provide child care at professional development events and to help us put on live in-person events that are teaching a lot of the things in this course plus other things and getting content from other creatives who are successful and bringing that speaker series and those workshops to life. So a portion of the proceeds from this course goes toward the Mom and Birdie Child Care Fund and to continue our art of business ⁓ content and speaker series into the future. if you can pay full price, do it. If you... LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (55:13) Amazing. Yeah. Janna (55:19) If it's never happening, right, if you're never going to have $549 to buy this course, message me because we are working on a plan where for every course that we sell, we do take a percentage and put it toward giving them away for free to people who need it. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (55:23) Mm-hmm. ⁓ You're amazing, Janna. That's so incredible. I'm so excited for the course. Everybody, please go check that out. And Janna, where can they follow you? I know you're on LinkedIn. You gave your website. Where else can everybody follow you and Papercraft Miracles? Janna (55:46) The easiest way to find me is just Google at Papercraft Miracles. You'll find me. I'm all over the place. I'm on LinkedIn. I'm most active as my own name on LinkedIn. But Instagram is kind of like that's my home. Social media home anyway, over there at Papercraft Miracles. And if you want to listen to my podcast, it's called Reach the Stars Podcast and it's a collection of conversations with cool people who do cool things. And there are inspiring stories of persistence, passion and purpose. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (56:12) I love it. Janna (56:13) You can get that on all the platforms and it's around. It's linked on our website. LESLIE YOUNGBLOOD (56:16) Perfect. Yeah, and we'll drop all those links will be in the show notes too, guys. So please check that out. Janna, thank you so much for joining us today. What an incredible conversation, incredible human you are. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And I feel like we still have so much more to talk about. So maybe we'll have you back on again soon. That's right. Take care. Bye. Janna (56:32) I know. We need another episode. Thank you for having me. Leslie Youngblood (56:35) Thanks for tuning in to Serious Lady Business. If you loved this episode, be sure to follow or subscribe so you never miss a moment of the real, raw, and really wonderful sides of female entrepreneurship. And hey, please leave a review if you're feeling generous. It helps more amazing women find us and join the conversation. You can also connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube at at Serious Lady Business and get all of the updates at SeriousLadyBusiness.com. Until next time, keep showing up, keep building, and keep being your seriously amazing self.