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Legally Brunette: The Diddy Verdict · Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I'll
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: be your host today, Emily Simpson with my co host Shane.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: It's just Shane. You know, people DM me now and
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: they ask how just Shane is doing. Yes, they refer
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: to you as just Shane. Actually today, First of all,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: let me do a little disclaimer because we are going
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: to talk about Diddy and the Diddy verdict. So this
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: story contains discussions of rape and sexual assault. If you
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: are someone you know has been sexually assaulted, you can
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: find help and discrete resources on the National Sexual Assault
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Hotline website or by calling one eight hundred six five
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: six four six seven three. So the verdict and the
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Didty trial actually came out today. I read it this morning.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: So we're going to discuss that. I know a lot
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: of you are mad, upset, disgusted. I have a whole
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: treasure trove of dms of women saying how did this happen?
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: He paid people off. He's a celebrity, so he got off.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: You know, this is disgusting. Why is he not convicted
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: on the higher charges? So we're going to go through that.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: First of all, let's just go back and refresh our
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: memories just so we can talk about what he was
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: originally charged with. He there were five counts against man.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: These are federal charges. One was the racketeering and conspiracy charge,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: which was RICO. The second was sex trafficking by force
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: fraud a coercion that had to do with Cassie Ventura.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: That was victim number one. Count three was transportation to
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: engage in prostitution regarding victim one and commercial sex workers.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Count four was sex trafficking by force fraud a coersion,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: and that had to do with victim two, who was
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: known as Jane, and Jane testified. Count five was transportation
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: to engage in prostitution regarding Jane and commercial sex workers.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, wellt's sum up. First one's RICO, so basically, second
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: one's sex trafficking, yeah, the third one is.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: That's transport to engage in prostitution.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: Okay, and then the fourth one is sex trafficking by force.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: It's also oh, well for Jane. Right, So there's two
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: sex trafficking charges, one against Cassie and another one against Jane,
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: well involving yeah, thank you. And then and then the
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: fifth one is transportation to engage in prostitution.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, so we all know that the verdict came out
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: and that he was found not guilty on the higher
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: charges of racketeering and sex trafficking. He was found guilty
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: only on the accounts of transportation to engage in prostitutions.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: Which includes prostitution as well.
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, it's it's transportation across I believe, across state
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: lines to engage in prostitution. All right, before we go
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: into the verdict and our thoughts on the verdict, let's
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: go through. We did do some episodes on the Diddy case,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: or Shane renamed him Pity.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: Well that was that was by mistake. Yeah, but I'm
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: confusing Pity the fool. Yeah that has freak cops without me.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, instead of p Diddy, he just changed it to Pity.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: I feel like that works for him. Let's go back.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: We did do some earlier episodes on Pity if you
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: would like to go back and listen to him. But
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: I think it's important let's start at the closing arguments,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: because I feel the prosecution did a good job of
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: wrapping everything up and laying out like a really precise,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: concise closing argument. So the prosecutors triggered headlines last week,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: when they had backed off of or eliminated claims of
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: arson and kidnapping against Combs. However, when Assistant US Attorney
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Christy Slavic launched closings last Thursday, she gave the allegations
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: of arson and kidnapping a starring role in her first sentences,
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: naming them before any others. She said, quote, over the
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: last several weeks, you've learned a lot about Sean Combs.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: He's the leader of a criminal enterprise. He doesn't take
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: no foreign answer, and now you know about many crimes
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: the defendant committed with members of his enterprise, kidnapping of
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: one of the defendants employees, Arson by trying to blow
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: up a car, or labor, including an employee. The defendant
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: repeatedly sexually assaulted, bribery of a security officer to keep
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: damning evidence against the defendant buried, and of course the
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: brutal crimes and the heat of the case sex trafficking.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: The enterprise is Comb's in his trusted inner circle, she said,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: and it existed to serve his needs. In what he
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: said went, Slovac referred to Combe's former chief of staff,
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Christina Korum, his security team and his assistants multiple times
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: during her closing arguments, describing how they aided Combs in
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: buying drugs, facilitated bribes, and covered up his violence. Slavic
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: showed the jury images of twenty seven men that Combs
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: hired to have sex with Ventura, Jane or with both women.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: This slide shows you just a subset of the strangers
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: who had sex with Jane and Cassie. Slovic said that
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: sex trafficking charge regarding Jane is based on Combe's years
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: long pattern of fraud, coercion, and ultimately force to get
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: her to do quote hotel nights. She recalled rehotel nights
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: in particular that Jane testified about as the most clear
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: cut examples of sex trafficking with Jane, adding that there
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: are many other hotel nights that Jane agreed to because
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: of the defendants pattern of coercion. All right, here's the
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: problem with the sex trafficking charges, at least according to
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: what I've read, what I've studied, what I've listened to testimony,
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: I've watched videos on it. When it comes to the
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: sex trafficking charges, which are higher charges than the prostitution charges,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, and the
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: burden of proof is on the prosecution. The prosecution has
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that Cassie
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: and Jane were forced a course into these sexual acts.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: And they do a good job of painting a picture
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: of women that are coerced by talking about how he
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: pays their rent, that he's violent, that they're scared of him, or.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: Even coursed into traveling.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: You know, I don't know the details like you might,
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: but which could you know? I wasn't their text messages
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: like I'm always ready, or yes baby, let's you know,
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: let's have a freak off or whatever. They would say
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: something that implied consent. Even if you and I know
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: that there was probably some pressure, But if she implied consent,
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: then there's no forcing of traveling or participating.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Right, And that's where the defense comes in, And where
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: the defense did a good job was finding text messages,
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: finding Instagram things, finding things out there where these women
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: were exhibiting behavior of going along with it, of talking
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: about how they liked the hotel nights upsetting, of proving
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: that they were setting it up themselves, that they were
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: going through the motions that they were picking out the
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: mail sex workers, that they were involved in the process.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: So you can't have it both ways. You can't have
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: coercion force and also involved in the process picking out
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: the mail prostitutes, paying the bills, getting the hotel, helping
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: set things up. But the problem is when you have
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: both of these women. I'm sure there were concrete examples
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: and instances where they didn't want to do it and
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: they probably did feel and.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: All you needed was one of those instances to be
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: proven right one time or they were coerced. It didn't
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: have to be every single freak off, every single transaction.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: It just had to be one.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: But the problem is is that I think when the
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: jury hears the prosecutors and they hear them testify, but
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: then the defense comes in and shows text messages where
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: they're saying things like they set it up, they picked
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: out this male worker, they enjoyed it, thank you for
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: setting that up, thank you for hosting this. It takes
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: away from the credibility that they were coerced or that
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: they were forced into this. It looks more like they're
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: going along with a lifestyle all right. Then the defense
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: says they're closing argument. The defense's main attorney is Mark Agniphilo, Agnifhilo.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: I always say his name wrong, Agnifilo. His wife represents Luigi,
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: and he mocked the government's case against Comb's as an overreach,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: saying hundreds of agents poured into Comb's residences in Miami
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: and Los Angeles to seize hundreds of bottles of baby
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: oil and astroglide. I guess it's all worth it because
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: they found the astroglide. They found it in boxes, boxes
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: of astroglide, taking off the streets few. I feel better already.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: He said, the streets of America are safe from the astroglide.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: So that was that sounds stupid.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: Well, you know what, you know why it sounds stupid.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: One.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: I understand the point he's trying to make, trying to
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: downplay it, like okay, so the.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: Guy gets it's a sex salobe like lots of people
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: use it. Oh no, he's trying to make it like
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: mocking it, like we're taking guns off the street, we're
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: taking astrograd off seat. Like is it really making a difference? Right?
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: All right?
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: From the start, agnifil not say his name. I can
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: never get the syllable on the act on the right syllable, Agnifilo, Agnifilo, Agnifilo, Agnifilo, gosh.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: From the start, Agnifilo portrayed prosecutors as unjustly targeting Combs
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: after a former girlfriend of nearly eleven years, Cassie Ventura,
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: sued him in November of twenty twenty three. That was
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: a civil suit that also remember we talked about, was
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: settled within one day for twenty million dollars. Agnifilo maintained
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: the prosecution was an unjust attack on a prominent and
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: widely successful black entrepreneur. Quote. They took astroglide and they
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: took baby oil, and that ends up being the evidence
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: in this case. Because his businesses are outstanding. There's nothing
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: about the businesses to fine. There's nothing about the businesses
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: to make it into a criminal case. Agnifilo tried to
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: cast the case for the jury as an attack on
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: everyone's bedroom and the secrets of one sex life. Quote.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: They go into the man's bedroom, they go into the
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: man's most private life. Where is the crime scene. The
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: crime scene is your private sex life. That's the crime scene.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: He said, Yeah, but that argument's dumb because that can
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: be made with anyone that's being charged with a sex crime.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: I mean that alone is stupid. Oh he went into
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: his bedroom. Oh oh no sex. Well, no, it's it's
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: what's taking place exactly. It's like going, oh no, we
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: went to this room and there's this a bunch of kids.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: Oh no, there's kids. It's like, well, it's kidnapping or
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: pedophilia or something.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: Else, right, right, Well, he's trying to downplay and making
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: it not like it's a criminal enterprise and not like
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: there's a crime going on other than this man is
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: just has freaky preferences and that's not a crime. Having
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: astroglide and baby oil isn't a crime. And having sex
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: and hotels and all the lights and the red lights
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: in the cannabis.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: I know, I know, and I'm making fun of it,
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: but apparently it worked.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: The defense attorneys goes on to say it was not
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: uncommon that Comb's like to film sexual events with his girlfriends,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: calling it sort of typical, you know, homemade porn, and
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: adding that I don't think, by any stretch of the imagination,
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: this is the only man in America making homemade porn.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know. What do you think?
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I bet there's a lot of people. Those
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: free costs make his homemade porn, so that but he's
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: not being charged with homemade porn. You're being charged with.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Sex trafficking, sex crimes and rico right right still, he said,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: investigators take yellow crime scene tape figuratively and they wrap
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: it around the bedroom crime scene, your bedroom, your hotel
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: rooms where you go with your girlfriends. Then he gave
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: a nod to the fiftieth anniversary of the movie Jaws,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: resurrecting a classic line when he said, we need a
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: bigger role of crime scene tape because that's just not
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: going to be enough. Agnifilo told geors that it takes
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: a lot of courage to acquit. He ripped the government's
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: case a final time, saying the trial was very different
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: from any other trial. Quote. I think that the evidence
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: shows that you can conclude that the government targeted Sean Combs,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: noting that nobody complained to the government to instigate a
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: pro but investigators instead began work a day after Cassie
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: filed her lawsuit. All right, then you know one closing arguments,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: The prosecution goes first, then the defense gets their time,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: and then the prosecution can go again, and they can
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: rebut what.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: You know, it sounds effective though the way he's downplaying
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: I can see, I can see it causing people to think, yeah,
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: I know, what's the big deal, Especially there was eight
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: men on the jury. They probably all have astrog I
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: believe it.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: I believe it was eight men and four women were
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: on the jury. First of all, here's the prosecution's job,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: because we talked about how the prosecution has the burden
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: to prove the RICO elements, the sex trafficking elements. Those
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: are the biggest charges beyond a reasonable doubt. And in
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: order to prove the RICO charges, you have to prove
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: that there was a criminal enterprise and that all these
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: people in this criminal enterprise were working towards the common goal.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: Which they weren't criminal activity. Is this is this enterprise
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: his record company.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Well, that's what they're trying. It's called shaan Combe's enter
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: or something like that. And then I think there's like
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: bad Boy Records and things under that, and he has
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: other businesses under that.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: But see let me interpew. So he has valid businesses
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: that are business that's being conducted, Yes, and probably for
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: many years prior to these charges.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Yes, And the prosecution spent a lot of time showing
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: receipts that showed hotel bills being paid, transportation being paid
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: for these prostitutes and the women, uh you know, baby
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: oil and lighting and all the necessities, and then they
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: would show a lot of times that it came out
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: of his his business enterprises, but then it would be
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: paid back with his personal money, so that was that's
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: where it gets money. It's like, on one hand, the
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: prosecution is showing, okay, it's a criminal enterprise because he's
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: paying for it out of these businesses to pay for
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: these freak offs and to bring these male prostitutes in.
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: And then the defense would go and say, yeah, but
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: then he was he paid it back with personal.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: They're kind of like, it's not the criminal. It's not
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: the enterprise that's conducting all his criminal activity. He just
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: used some of the money and then he paid it.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Back, right, so it's not a criminal enterprise. Also, you know,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: the prosecution put on thirty four witnesses thirty four and
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: it was all to establish a network of a criminal
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: enterprise to establish RICO.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: The issue still couldn't get the charge.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: The issue is is that the defense would then come
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: in and do what the defense does. Because I don't
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: know if you know, but the defense called zero witnesses. Zero.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: They only read some text messages I think like five hours.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: There's probably no witnesses that even come forward. Yeah, I'll
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: testify that I love the freak outs, that I was
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: willing to do it and I participated.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: And well the defense, I mean, the defenses, that's.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: What they could have done, right.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Well, I thought maybe they might put on like a
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: character witness or something to like maybe pull at the
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: jury's heartstrings that like he's a good guy or something.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but they put on zero witnesses a
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: long shot. Their case was basically just rebutting the prosecution's
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: case and taking each witness like, for exact example, Capricorn
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: Clark who talked about how she was kidnapped by Diddy. Well,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: then there you go. You're establishing one of your elements
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: that you need for Rico. Right, you're establishing you have
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: to do two predicate crimes within a ten year period.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: So you have to establish there was bribery, there was
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: you know arson, there's burglary. You have to have two
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: of these crimes. So Capricorn Clark testifies, there's your kidnapping,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: so that would be one predicate act, right. But the
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: problem is then the defense comes on and then she
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: admits that in twenty twenty four she tried to work
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: for him again. Well, so it's like you're saying, I
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: was kidnapped at gunpoint, and I don't know what year
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: it was, in some earlier year, but then in twenty
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: twenty four she reached out to Sean Combs and want
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: to work for him again.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It even if there were acts that were conducted
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: that can be viewed as criminal, clearly the jury didn't
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: see it as the end a prize being established or
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: used to facilitate crime.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Right, And the defense did a good job of every
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: time someone testified that there was always some evidence that
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: could take away their credibility, Like.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: Here's a text where she was consenting adults.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Right, or she was setting it up, or she enjoyed it,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: or she said thank you. So it was she liked.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: Being beaten up and pulled down the hallway back to
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: the hotel room. She didn't want to go down the elevator.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: Nobody liked that. That's about the freak offs.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: I know, But how I have questions about the elevator incident?
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: You do.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: What is your question about the elevator incident? Why wasn't
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: in the elevator? It was in the hallway. She was
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: trying to get into the elevator.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Do you want me to call it the hallway incident?
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: Yes, the hallway incident. What is your question about that?
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: What is it? Why was he Why was that not?
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Why was there no criminal charges for that? Is that
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: because a statue of limitations? Is that because they settle
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: it out of court?
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: Well? I think it was because she settled it out
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: of court. And then I believe when prosecutors or the
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: government or whatever read her civil case against him, that's
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: when they were like, Oh, he's involved in all of
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: these things. And then all these other people are coming
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: forward with all these He's had so many civil suits
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: against him. Right now, then I think the government's like,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, what is this guy involved in him?
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: What is he doing? This looks like Rico because he
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: has all these assistants and people working for him that are,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: you know, helping him facilitate these freak offs. It looks
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: like this could be a possible Rico charge.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: Huh.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Finally, a rebuttal from the prosecution. The Assistant US attorney
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Maureen Komy got the final word with a rebuttal presentation
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: to jurors. Komy began by saying, the defense just spent
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: a whole lot of energy trying to blame Combe's victims
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: and the US government for his lies, his threats, and
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: for his inexcusable behavior. She added that this trial was
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: about how in Shaan Combe's world, no was never an option.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Comy said that the defense team has tried to set
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: violence from sex regarding both Ventura and Jane, but quote,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: if part of the abuse is making your partner participate
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: in a commercial sex act, you're guilty of sex trafficking.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: She added that the jury only has to find that
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: one freak off or hotel night was sex trafficked to
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: find Combs guilty of the charge. There's your answer. Sex
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: trafficking does not legally require the perpetrator to overcome a
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: no from the victim. It can also involve getting someone
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: to say yes through illegal means like force, fraud, and coercion.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: She said that Colmbs, in his mind, was untouchable. She
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: noted that one former personal assistant even described him as
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: a god among men. For twenty years, the defendant has
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: gotten away with his crimes. That ends in this courtroom.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: She said. He is a person, and in this courtroom
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: he stands equal before the law. Overwhelming evidence proves his guilt.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: It is time to hold him accountable, find him guilty.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Now here's the thing with the Rico charges. In order
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: for a Rico charge to stick, you.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: Have to prove.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: Two criminal acts within a ten year period that were
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: part of this enterprise.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: Well, I imagine among other things, like the enterprise was
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: facilitating it, right.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: And also the element of like a common goal in
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: the way.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: And you have to prove that it was a crime.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Right. But I'm saying I think that it was established
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: by the prosecution that he did commit these crimes as
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: far as arson, and I don't know with kid Cutty
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: testifying and then cast Ventura corroborating the arson, and then
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: I believe there was someone else that testified to it.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: So there's your arsen right there. There's one crime also,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: the bribery.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: I mean the.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Security card talked about how you gave him a hundred
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars and brought the cash machine and counted it out. Yeah, you,
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: So there's two. The problem is is I think the
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: other elements as far as it being you have the
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: two underlying criminal acts within a ten.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Year period and then trying to make it but racketeering
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: is to make it racketeering, and so not to downplay
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: anything that he did, so people don't get after me
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: because I'm not supporting him, not supporting him one bit.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: But it's it's it's sort of like if I had
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: a retail store and I was just selling. I had
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: like a mini mart, and I was selling stuff, and
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: then I committed two acts of crime and I used
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: like the store, like someone came in and I bought
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: drugs right, or I sold on one item that was illegal. Well,
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: I just happened to have a store and I did
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: these two crimes. Like it wasn't because of the store,
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: I was able to commit the crimes or I created
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: the store in order to facilitate these crimes. So it
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: sounds like that's what it was. Like, Yeah, Okay, he's
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: a business guy. He's got all kinds of businesses, all
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: kinds of employees, entities, Yeah, all kinds of stuff, payroll this, that,
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: blah blah blah, and he commits crimes. So it was
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: probably very difficult to tie those two together.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: Well, I think it was difficult to tie in the
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: conspiracy part, where you're talking about all these people that
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: work for him. His employees, assistance, bodyguards, et cetera. Are
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: all part of this criminal enterpse, and they're all working
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: as a common goal. Took to commit times.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: It's not a hired someone and gave them the title
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: of like freak off calendar coordinator, right, right.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: So freakoff facilitator, yes, yes, all right, So after thirteen
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: hours of deliberation, what did the jury find? So the
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: verdict comes in? It was in this morning, count je
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Rico not guilty. Count two, Sex trafficking, Cassie Ventura not guilty.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Count three, The Man Act Transportation Cassie Ventura guilty. Sex
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: trafficking Jane not guilty. Man Act Transportation of Jane guilty.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: The Man Act of nineteen ten is a federal law
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: that criminalizes the transportation of individuals across state lines or
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: in international boundaries for illegal sexual activity, regardless of consent
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: or not. In Combe's case, the prosecution presented flight records,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: hotel invoices, credit card charges, and video evidence documenting the
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: singer supporting two ex girlfriends, Cassie Ventura and a woman
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: referred to by the pseudonym Jane, along with paid escorts
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: across state lines for so called freak golf parties. How
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: does the man Act differ from sex trafficking? While the
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Trafficking Victims Protection Act of two thousand was designed to
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: combat what Congress called modern day slavery, it targets organized
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: systems of commercial exploitation through force, fraud, occursion, and it
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: typically involves traffickers who control nearly every aspect of the
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: victim's life, like housing, transportation, identification, finances, and the ability
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: to leave. Both Cassie Ventura and Jane reported trauma and coercion,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: but they retained housing, communication, financial resources, and career opportunities.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: They were not legally or physically confined. There was no
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: evidence of document confiscation. There was no restriction of movement
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: of the kind of isolation commonly seen in trafficking cases.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: So the difference between the man Act and the general
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: term of sex trafficking is sex trafficking is forced or
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: cursed or some type of fraud, type of fraud, and
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: a man Act is it's two consenting adults that go
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: across state line commit a sex crime. Right okay, and
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: I think sex trafficking I know I've read this before,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: is it involves underage, so it need not be coerced
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: and fraud and all that. It could just be under age.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: Your age would be sex trafficking as well.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: Which obviously didn't apply here. But I don't want to
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: make that clear.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: Right, are the not guilty?
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: Vertical kind of funny that's called the man act. Yeah,
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: that's pretty ironic. I bet no female has been convicted
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: of the man act of the man. Probably just the
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: dirt bag men that do it, that.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Are transporting women.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Well now I don't know though, because this weekend in Vegas,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: I almost got sex trafficked. It was a man working
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: with a woman. Wow.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: She might have been coursed, she might have been forced.
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Well well, okay, wait a minute, he's gonna throw that
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: out there that you almost got sex traffic You're not
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: going to tell the story. You gotta tell a story now, Okay.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: So we went to Vegas this weekend and I was
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: at Caesar's with Shane and all the kids were there,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: and then I left earlier than Shane. I left Caesar's.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: First mistake, Yeah I should I should never anywhere alone.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: But anyway, I left Caesar's Palace with the two boys,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: so it was the three of us, and I was
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: with some girls.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: His girls, his daughter day.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: So I'm leaving Caesar's Palace and I'm walking out where
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: the valet is and there's a taxi there with the
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: light on, which means it's available. And I go to
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: open the door of the back seat of the taxi
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: to get in it and take it back to Mandalay
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Bay where we're staying, and all of a sudden, this
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: very tall, large man jumps in front of me and
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: blocks me from getting into.
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: The town where the boys in the car. I think
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: you told me this, but I want to make a
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: clireful of veers. You boys were in the car at
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: the timer behind.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: You're behind me, they're next to me. And then I'm like,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: what is this guy doing? And at first I got irritated,
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: and then so I reached for the doorway.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: How was he dressed?
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Like plain clothes?
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Okay, just regular, not like a suit, no shirt.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: No, it was tall, it was big. He had a
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: T shirt pants on. Then I go and reach for
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: the door again and he gets in front of me
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: and blocks me from getting into the car, and I'm like,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: what are you doing. I'm trying to get in this
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: cab and he goes, no, go in this other car,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: and he points to another car by the way. The
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: other car car is an unmarked car. It's just a
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: black car. It's not a taxi. It doesn't say uber
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: or anything on it, a panel pan, it's just say
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: black car. And he points to a woman that's standing
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: about ten feet behind me, and she goes, oh, come on, sweetheart,
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: just get in this car. And I was like, don't
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: look at okay, No, I'm not getting in that car.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: So I try a third time to go for the
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: door handle and he grabs the door and he slams
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: it shut and he gets in front of me and
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: he won't let me get in the car.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: How far away was she or the car? She was
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: about like a car length away, car length.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Away over back behind the taxicab. And she keeps going
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: like motioning for me to get in this other car.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: She's trying to vouch for him, like yeah, I'm a female.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: See it's okay.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: She's like it's okay, honey, come get in this car.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: And then then the taxi driver, who I'm trying to
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: get into his car, starts fighting with the man that
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: won't let me in the car, and they're screaming at
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: each other. So then I'm just like, this is insanity.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know what's going on. This woman's trying to
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: get me to get in another car. These guys are
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: screaming at each other. I thought they were going to
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: get in a physical altercation. So I go back into
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Caesars and take the boys with me. The boys are scared.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: I go to the valet. I'm like, I need security.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to get in a taxi cab and this
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: guy won't let me get in the taxi. So then
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: security goes out there and it was I don't know,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: it was a woman with a walkie talkie. She goes
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: out and she talks to the guy and I can
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: see him talking. He's talking to her and he's got shit.
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: All she had was what he said right.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Right, So I don't know what he said to her.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: But she comes back in and she says to me
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: and she goes, ma'am, he was just trying to get
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: you in the other taxi cab. And I was like, well, ma'am,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: let me tell you the other taxi cab. They black
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: car with no marking, thought it, I'm not getting in
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: that car. So then I stood there and I had
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: to wait until that guy finally left, and he eventually left,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: and then the boys and I had to have an
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: escort take us out and find a new cab for us.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: Anyway, Veas, what got an escort in Baas, I.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Got an escort. I got a male escort in Vegas
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: that escorted me to a taxi cab to make sure
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: I got into an actual taxi and I got to
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: the mandol A. But let me just tell you what
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: my husband said when I called him to tell him
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: that I almost got said.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: Remember you don't remember what you said?
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: I called you and I was like, oh my gosh,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: I almost got sex trafficked, and you go, aren't you
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: a little old to be? Said?
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: Sorry?
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Thank you for that?
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: All right?
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that anyway, seriously, though, like a for real warning, women,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: be aware of your surroundings totally, and be aware when
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: you take ubers. Always check the check plate a license plate.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: Don't give them your name first, ask them who are
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: you looking for? Let them give you your name. Make
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: sure that the license plates match up. Make sure that
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: the description of the car matches up. And if you
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: ever get a little inkling that something's offered you feel weird,
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: do not get in the car. And I would also
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: say don't ever take an uber alone. I would say
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: go in groups, go with a friend, like, try not
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: to do that alone. It's it really was. I'm telling
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: you in.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Some ways, I'm glad you got exposed to that. So
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: we can all and when we talk, we pass along
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: to our kids. We can all be more careful because
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: I texted you know, my daughters and everything, So it's
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: like we can all learn from it.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: Yes, And even if there is a woman who looks
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: kind and says sweetheart and tells you to get in
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: the car and tells you it's fine, I no, just run,
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: it's not even worth it. Are the not guilty verdicts justifiable?
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: This is a USA Today article. The abuse described in
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: the Diddy trial was real and criminal, but calling it
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: trafficking does not help survivors. None of this minimizes what happened.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: The abuse described in the Comb's case was real, harmful,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: and criminal, but redefining it as trafficking simply because other
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: laws didn't offer a viable path to justice does not
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: help survivors. It undermines the integrity of the trafficking framework
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: and could actually make it harder for victims of true
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: trafficking to get the support and legal recognition they need.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: It's understandable why prosecutors turn to the Trafficking Victims Protection
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Act because trafficking cases come with longer statutes of limitations,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: more severe penalties, and more public support, and existing domestic
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: violence statues are often outdated or ill equipped to address
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: course of control, especially when the abuser is wealthy, powerful,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: and legally savvy. Basically, what this article is saying, it's
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: trying to explain why what Combs did did not fit
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: under a trafficking standard. And basically what they're saying is
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: there is no legal recourse. It's either domestic violence recourse,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: which doesn't actually fit because he is a man with
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: wealth and stature and he does use his money and
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: fame to get what he wants, but that his actions
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: don't actually fit under a trafficking legal standard. And that's
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: where this wasn't.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: Well It's yeah, that was the weakest part of the
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: whole right.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: But the problem is is that I believe that there
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: were times where it was consensual, and then there were
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: times where they didn't want to. And the problem is
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: is that the defense does a good job of pointing
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: out that there were times of consent when they enjoyed it,
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: or when they wanted to, or when they thanked him,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: or when they were like, can't wait, And when you
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: put that in the jury's mind, that's what the jury
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: takes away. And it comes down to the jury has
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: to decide whether these witness credible. And even if they're
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: credible and they've gone through a lot, the problem is
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: is that they go.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Back, Man, he really won this one. You would have
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: thought there would have been one instant Why where yeah one,
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: and there was not one. They're saying it was all
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: like with consent, right, because that's what the Man Act is, right,
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: So that's all with consent. Unbelievable, Yeah, unbelievable. And you
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: know what worries me, or maybe it doesn't worry me,
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: But what I think is now he thinks, see, I
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: didn't do anything wrong. I can keep doing what I'm doing.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: And just like he paid off everyone all the time,
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: and just it fueled him to keep doing what he
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: wanted to do because he can get away with it now,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: he can get away with it here. Yeah.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Okay. Here's my question, though, after all of this that
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: he's been through, do you think he'll still have freak offs?
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Well, no, One's gonna give me very few people that
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: want to go to something like that, Like anyone that
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: has a face that's like in Hollywood. Do you think
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: they're going to want to go to that and be
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: tied to him? No way. It'd be like no one's
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: going to Epstein Island after he got busted. Yeah, No
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: one wants to be seen with him.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: So you're saying it's more of like the commit public
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: suicide around him.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: The other problem with this case was that no human
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: trafficking experts were called to the stand. One of the
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: most telling omissions in this trial was the absence of
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: a human trafficking expert witness, something virtually standard in most
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: trafficking prosecutions. In typical cases, these experts are brought in
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: to explain the dynamics of power and coercion, as well
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: as recruitment and control schemes typically used by traffickers. Here,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: both the prosecution and defense opted not to call such witnesses,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: likely because Comb's conduct defied those standard frameworks. Instead, prosecutors
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: called Don Hughes, who we talked about in previous episodes,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: a psychological expert on interpersonal violence who previously testified on
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: behalf of Amber Heard and the Johnny Depp defamation case
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: that stem from allegations of domestic abuse. Diddy's alleged trafficking
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: enterprise did not resemble the cloud modern slavery narrative, and
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: a human trafficking expert might have inadvertently highlighted just how
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: unusual this case was for a trafficking prosecution. So basically
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: what they're saying is it makes sense that the prosecution
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: didn't call a trafficking expert because if you had a
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: trafficking expert come in and talk about what sex trafficking
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: looks like, it does not resemble his methodology, and therefore
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: it would have been detrimental to the prosecution if they
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: had done that instead of helping them in some way.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: So it comes down to this article states that we
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: need stronger domestic violence laws, and you know what the
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: defense admits repeatedly, this is domestic violence.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: Well, not only that, but you need education because these
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: people need to report it right away. Not wait until
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: much later. I mean, how many people were at these
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: freak offs that probably could testify or show text messages
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: or do something that would have helped the prosecution. But
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: they chose not to for whatever reason.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Well, they chose not to because I think he's a
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: scary man.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: Well yeah, yeah, that's the reason.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, Cassie goes against him and starts
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: dating somebody else, and he tries that he breaks into
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: kid Cutty's house allegedly, and you know, burns up his
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: Porsche with a Molotov cocktail allegedly, you know, and then
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Capricorn Clark talks about how he you know, used a
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: gun to brand a shit to get her in the
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: car and that was kidnapping.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: You don't think this was going to be way more
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: cocky now it's a big c I you.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: Don't think so. You think he's going to be cocky
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: here instead of humbled by all of this. I feel
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: like he, Yeah, he did be more careful now, I mean,
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: you think he's just going to keep doing this stuff
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: that he does.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: He should He did it wrong. He should have been
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: more like Charlie Sheen and has been out in the
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: open being like eh, I got these ladies. Yeah, paim,
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: they love it and this is all the open He's
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: walking with it one in each arm. He's like he
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: was public and it was like this is my lifestyle.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: You love me, and he was being funny.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but the difference was like he was just sleeping
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: with prostitutes.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: I know he I know, so no one could come
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: forward and make it like it was not consensual because
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: he was so out there was so yep, that's Charlie Sheen.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: Where's this? This is like no one knew this about
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: puff Day, at least the general public didn't, and all
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: of a sudden it comes out, so everyone wants to know more.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: Well, no one knew about it because no one talked
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: about it because of how violent he is. Yeah, I
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: mean he he beat these women up. He was physically abusive.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: Well, then maybe I should say that that's the difference
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: between him and Charlie Sheen. Charlie Sheen was more.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Of a well he was just open and let flag fly.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: But he also wasn't as far as I know, I
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: don't think he was violent.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: No.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: Basically, what this comes down to is we need stronger
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: domestic violence laws. Prosecutors may have used, that's trafficking because
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: the statute of limitations had already expired on more direct
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: charges such as sexual assault or battery.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and what's the statue limitation. I think it's like
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: a year or something, right, see, whatever it is. This
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: is what's crap is he can find the videos, he
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: can find the evidence, he can shut them up for
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: a year whatever the statue limitation is, and then it laps,
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: and then now it's over. I mean that I don't know.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: I don't know about one year.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: But that's why whatever, that is why they pushed so
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: hard for the rico and conspiracy charges, and that's why.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: They tried to Well, then I would say that the
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: prosecution just didn't do their job. Maybe it was an overreach.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: Maybe maybe they tried, they got ahead of themselves.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: It's not a reflection of the survivor's credibility. It's a
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: failure of the legal system to account for how trauma
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: actually works. Many victims of intimate partner violence, especially when
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: facing fear, manipulation or public scrutiny, wait years to come forward.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: That's not weakness, it's human. But the law hasn't caught
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: up when time runs out on prosecuting real crimes. Prosecutors
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: sometimes look for workarounds, and the trafficking Statute offers one,
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: but it wasn't designed to handle domestic abuse or intimate
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: partner exploitation. I think that's where the sex trafficking failed.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: Was it came down to It's not your typical sex
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: trafficking where someone is taken by force or by fraud
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: and then put into this world of sex trafficking. You're
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: talking about women that were his girlfriend right that they were.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: They had times where, you know, the defense shared these
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: beautiful texts between them about how in love they were
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: and how they needed each other, and how happy they
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: were together, and how they were addicted to one another.
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: And it's hard to take that when you hear that
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: and you read those texts and then put it into
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: a sex trafficking framework. And that's where the problem was.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Let's get a little bit back to RICO. We did
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: talk about this earlier, but maybe let's just get into
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: it a little bit more. Racketeering is the participation in
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: an illegal scheme under the Racketeer, Influence and Corrupt Organization
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: Statute or RICO as a way for the US government
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: to prosecute organizations that contribute to criminal activity. The term
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: racketeering originates from the word racket, which originally referred to
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: dishonest or fraudulent business schemes, often involving extortion, coercion, or intimidation.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: Notorious gangsters like al Capone built criminal empires using racketeering
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: tactics such as protection rackets, illegal gambling, and bribery. Crimes
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: must form a pattern, usually involving two or more acts.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: We talked about that two or more predicate acts within
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: a ten year period to constitute racketeering under RICO. And
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: then also not just the two crimes, because I feel
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: like those two criminal crimes within a ten year period
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: were established. It's also establishing that it was a criminal
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: enterprise with a common goal and that everybody.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: Was involved, not just there was a business and two crimes.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: Right yeah. Did He's response after the verdict was read
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: Upon hearing that he was acquitted on three of the
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: five charges, did he got on his knees and placed
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: his head down in a chair in a prayer like position.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: According to he started after they read the verdict because
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: he was not guilty on the higher charges.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: Off the RICO as a gesture of thinking.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: The ice thanking God, per the news organization thinking his God,
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: which is the thinking himself.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: He's like, thank you, Satan, I knew you would, you
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: would save me. Now let's continue the work. Okay.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Comb's family stood in the courtroom slapping, clapping, not slapping. Sorry,
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: they were clapping. Nobody was slapping anybody. Combe's family stood
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: in the courtroom clapping and cheering for the music Mogul's fate.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: The defense attorneys hugged each other while Comb's hugged lords.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, this is the problem. So his daughters, I know,
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: at one point, were at the trial, right.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: They were there in the very beginning.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: So get this, what's he going to do? Tell his dollars, No, no, no,
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: it wasn't criminal. All my freak offs and my behavior
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: and urinating in people's mouths or whatever he did.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: I think that was a sex workers whatever.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Whatever. He's telling his girls.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Babe, it's all okay.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: It was consensual. So I'm your daddy, it's okay. I mean,
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: so you're saying it's still bad, and they're they're cheering, Yay,
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: he didn't it wasn't criminal. They all want he's just
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: a freak. I mean, that's that's what they're saying.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: I don't I couldn't even understand why his kids were
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: in the courtroom, even though they were there in the beginning.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: It was probably a tactic.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: They were there was a tactic.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: To tug at the jury's hearts, like saying, yeah, like he's.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: A father, but but is that something I mean, is
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: that something that you want your.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: No? But I mean not that they couldn't see it
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: in the public, you know, you know, tabloids and everything.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: But that's what I'm saying, is what's he gonna do?
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: He tells his daughters like and his sons, Yeah, I
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: did all those things, but it was you know, I'm
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: just a freak. I'm not a criminal.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Well that I mean, that's basically that's basically the defense
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: is closing argument.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: He tells kids that he can't go home, be like, no,
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: not really, I didn't do any of that, all right.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: So what happens next? Now that Comb's verdicts has been delivered,
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: The US District Judge are An Aaron Supermanian will review
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: both the prosecution and defences submitted sentencing recommendations. Next, a
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: probation department will offer a sentencing recommendation after their review
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: of the case. The Department will consider multiple factors, including
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: Comb's behavior while being detained throughout his federal trial, and
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: the fact that this is his first conviction of this
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: type of charge. Okay, first of all, this is his first.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: Cons I mean, that's that's stupid, because like, hey, you're
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: on it was my first murder. Like, seriously, cut me
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: a break. It was my first.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, it's his first conviction. But we know that this
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: has been going back since like the nineties.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: And there's also this is an opportunity where the judge,
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know what they'll do, but they have an
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: opportunity to give them the max. Like, you know what,
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: you didn't get convicted all these crimes, but you're a
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: nut and you're a freak and you're a menace to society.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: And they put him what's the max he could get?
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: The max is twenty years, so it will be ten
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: years on each count. So the max that he could
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: get his.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: Twenty years, which I'm not saying he's gonna get that,
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: he's not likely.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: The judge will then review that recommendation until his sentencing hearing.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: Comb's defense team has requested that he'd be released on
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: a million dollars bond. They also requested a bail package
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: in which she willingly surrenders his passport and restricts his
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: travel to Florida, California, New York, and New Jersey. However,
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: the judge denied Shawancombe's bail. He said that detention is
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: required based on Combe's conviction. He did not hear any
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: arguments from the lawyers. The defendant's violence was starkly depicted
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: in the twenty sixteen Intercontinental video, the judge said, referencing
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: the hotel security footage that showed him physically assaulting Cassie Venturing.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: The judge called Comb's domestic violence a quote propensity for violence.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: It is impossible for the defendant to demonstrate that he
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: possesses no danger to the community. So that's why his
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: bail was denied.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: Because he sounds so privileged. You're like, oh, I only
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: travel these four states where I have big homes. I mean,
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: I'll only go to my mansions, right, wasn't it didn't
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: he also say, like the attorney said, he wouldn't, he
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: wouldn't engage with prostitution. I saw that somewhere. I'm like, well,
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: I'd hope not. That's like criminal activity and not supposed
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: to be doing that.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're like he won't sleep with prostitutes.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: Whatever, I should make it like, okay, fine, you want
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: out on bail. You're gonna live in this little apartment.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: You're gonna live on minimum wage. Oh, you have no
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: contact with anyone.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: If you don't get prostitutes or free and money, right,
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: you gotta live.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: Like now, do you want to get out? Actually, that's
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: where he is now, he's going to sell. That's what
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: he's still.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: The US District Judge Aaron Supermanian Setcomb sentencing on two
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: counts of transportation to engage in prostitution for October third
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: at ten am. So he is still in prison. He
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: is going to remain there until October third. He then
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: will be sentenced. My guess is he'll get five years.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: Well, he's already served how much time.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: I think it's over a year now.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: I think it was ten months I saw this morning. Yeah,
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: so it's ten months.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: He'll get time.
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: Ser so he'll get Yeah, that'll count, right, I don't know,
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: you know, we're gonna find out, is it which way
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: is the judge going to go? Or is it. I
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: bet the judge is probably gonna just give him like
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: a year or two.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: You think a year or two.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, these charges aren't really that horrific.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: They're not paper any But.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: Also, the judge did sit there for six weeks or
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: eight week however many weeks it was, and listened to
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: testimony after testimony of the drug.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but how long has this judge been on the bench.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: If he had been on there for twenty years, he's
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: heard it all, and so it's not shocked.
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't know if he's seen it all. Because
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: they showed videos of the freak offs.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: Oh they did, yeh.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: So, and let me tell you this. This is interesting
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: because I think this is interesting to talk about. The
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: prosecution showed small clips of the freak offs, small clips
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: that the jury's got to see the jury. The defense
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: showed a forty minute long clip of a freak off.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: Now what do you think they were doing?
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Who's they the defense?
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: What's the difference? Why is the prosecution showing short.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: Little cud They probably show what works for the prosecution,
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: and then the forty minute shows everyone going this is
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: the best party ever, we love coming here or whatever.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: They're saying, so it shows consent.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: Right, So the defense showing a long freak off of
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: forty minute freak off, it's going to give you all
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: this background and context.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: In fact, it's even worse because then it's like, Oh,
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: the prosecution's being selective in what they're showing us. What
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: else are they not showing us? So it looked even
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: worse if the prosecutor showed a few clips and then
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: they say, no, let's play the whole thing.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, are those going to be released?
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: Would they can be on YouTube? Would you like?
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: No?
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: So I want I just want to know what's going on.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, first of all, here they obviously there they were.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: The court was closed. But I saw drawings and it
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: showed the jurors, you know, watching you know, I don't tell.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: Me you're going to get anything out of the paintings. No,
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: but paint a freak off, you know, it's like, look,
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: it's oil painting. It's like a freak off.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: No, they didn't paint the freak offs, but they showed
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: images that they, you know, that the artists had painted
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: of like the jury looking you know, and looking at it.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: And then I watched someone giving their their take because
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: they were in the courtroom when it was going on,
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: and in my mind, I'm thinking, how awkward, you know,
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: how awkward is that that you're sitting there and you're
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: on the jury and you're watching, Like, first of all,
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: it's hard for me to even visualize what these freak
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: offs are. I mean, all the baby oil and the
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: astro glide in the I bet Sean Combs was sitting there, gone,
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, I remember that day.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: That was a good one.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: And they're just watching it like you're just who took
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: the videos? I don't. I'm probably an assistant. It's probably
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: one of the freak Off employees that you were talking about.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: There's probably the Freakoff Department's archived.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, So I just I cannot. I was so uncomfortable
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: thinking about the jury just sitting there for forty minutes
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: watching the porn. I know, in a.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: Courtroom with a job, you were going to have to
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: take a light deitecture one day, like have you ever
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: seen porn?
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: He's like, uh, does Dinny's trial account?
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: What if they go home and now they're like, you know,
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: like it like having regular like sex with their wife. Oh,
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: they're not the same, Like now they're what if they
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: all come home and they're like ordering baby oil, Like
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: it's changed their perspective on things. I don't know, but
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: I just got an immune to it.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: It was awkward for me to think about the jury
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: watching a forty minute clip.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: Or the sonographer the snoga sitting there like typing it
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: all out, you know, no idea.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's just wrap up.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: The bailiffs were probably all signing up like I want Tuesday. No,
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: you get you know, I want Tuesday. That's why they're
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: going to show the videos. The bailiffs, Oh yeah, you're
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: all about this. I don't know. Well, they probably watch
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: a bunch of boring They probably go to a bunch
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: of boring criminal charges. All right, So all right, so
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: is he going to jail or what?
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: I think he's going to serve time? Yes, but a
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: lot of time.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: Now years, let's predict. You think five years, five years,
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: I'm guessing, I sures hope I'm wrong. Two years. So
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: what do you think? When is it? October third? Is
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: the sentencing hearing? Yeah?
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: All right, I know just space of on my DMS
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: that everyone is very upset by this verdict, and I
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: think it's important to just distinguish between morality and legality,
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: and I think we'll just end it with that. Clearly,
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: Diddy is not a moral man. No, he's not an
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: upstanding citizen. He is violent, He is atrocious. He should
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: not be walking amongst us. I think he should be
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: in prison. That's just my personal thought. I don't think.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: I think he uses his wealth and power to intimidate,
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: to force. He's violent. I you know that nineteen ninety
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: nine shooting. I'm sure he was involved and he got
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: out of the yeah, oh yeah. I think he's been,
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: you know, involved in criminal activity.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: And what he wants to do in that case. We
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: hope he serves some time. We hope the civil suits
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: kind of drain him, and hopefully no one really wants
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: associate themselves with him anymore. I mean, it's not it's
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: like he said, it's legally Burnette, it's not morally Burnette.
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: It's not moral Brunette. So that is the difference. That
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: is why the verdict is the way it is the
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: letter of the law. At the end of the day,
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: I don't think the elements were met for the rico
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: charges and for the sex trafficking. The article that we
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: talked about was a really good analysis of why what
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: he did didn't fit under sex trafficking and then why
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: the domestic abuse statutes don't work because of the Statute
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: of limitations, and so he fell into the middle of
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: that and he just slipped through the cracks.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: Are you going to get canceled like all his music?
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: Like Bill Cosby? You can't, you can't watch the Cosby Show,
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: you can't do anything. I mean, he should. I know,
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: they should have they started that already, do you know.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I didn't ask the canceling department, apartment.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: I'll work on that. But anyway, again, just to reiterate
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: the difference between moral and legal, this was more the
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: people are disgusted because this is more of a moral issue.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: And for what it's worth, he's still in jail right
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: now and he is, so we will follow it and
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: if any if there's anything else that comes out, we'll
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: definitely talk about it. But we will follow it until
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: October third and see what the judge sentence him.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: So there you go.
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: All right, let's get a little bit into Brian Coberger
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: because a lot of you have been reaching out to
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: me about that. In the Idaho murders, if you have
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: not listened, you can go back and find. I mean
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: I think you can go back and find. We did
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: an episode on the Idaho murders, which I actually enjoyed
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: doing that episode because it's so it was so old.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: Well, it a evidence, It was a lot of evidence
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: to discuss.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: It was very I feel like we did a very
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: detailed analysis. We talked about it, We talked about timeline
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: and everything. So Brian Coberger was supposed to go on
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: to trial in August, but apparently I think this was
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: yesterday he pled guilty. So Brian Coberger, the thirty year
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: old criminal justice PhD student charged with the murders of
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: four University of Idaho students back in twenty twenty two,
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: admitted to the crimes in court on Wednesday, July second,
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: before formally entering a guilty plea. Remember, he was arrested
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: back in December of twenty twenty two in Pennsylvania after
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: forensic evidence linked him to the murders, including DNA found
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: on a knife sheath at the crime scene and cell
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: phone data placing him near the victim's home multiple times.
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: Remember we talked about the knife sheaf they that was
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: left behind. It had DNA on it. They used the
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: DNA to they ran it through those to.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: A system like the familial like DNA system.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think they got a hit on his
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: dad and then they and then I remember they went
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: to his residence and they went through the trash right
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: to get his DNA and then that's how they linked
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: him to the crimes. Also, the cell phone data showed
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: that he had driven by their home multiple times, phone
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: and things like that. As part of his plea deal,
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: Coburger pleaded guilty to four counts of first degree murder
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: and the stabbings of Ethan, Xanna Madison, and Kayley, who
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: were killed in their home. This was a college house
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: in Moscow, Idaho, during the early morning hours of November thirteenth,
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. He was also charged with one count
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: of burglary. Coburger faces up to four consecutive life sentences
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: without the possibility a parole, one for each murder charge
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: and a ten year sentence for the burglary charge. With
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: this deal, Coburger gives up all rights to appeal, making
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: the sentences final.
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: Uh, he's never coming out then, right, Oh, no, he never.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: If he pled guilty, that means he knew. I mean,
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: he is his defense duty. He's probably told him, there's
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: so much evidence against you. Yeah, you're screwed, and the
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: only thing you can do is try to not get
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: the death penalty.
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: If Coburger was convicted a trial, prosecutors were seeking the
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: death penalty, likely by firing squad, making the stakes extremely high.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: Coburger's defense pushed for delays, tried to block most of
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: the prosecution's evidence against him, and even suggested a list
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: of alternative perpetrators who they claim could have committed the killings,
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: but the judge denied most of their motions, allowing a
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: tidal wave of evidence to be presented against Coburger at
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: his trial, which was scheduled for next month. I think
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: a lot of these motions that they were filing try
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: to get evidence withheld. None of it stood stood, and
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: I think that's when they were like, look like the
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: mountain of evidence against.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: You is, Yeah, you're no Diddy Combs, but it's.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: A lot, so you might want to take a complete
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: deal good. There was overwhelming evidence against Coburger. Prosecutors had
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: amassed DNA evidence, including the knife sheet with his DNA
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: cell phone geolocation data linking him to the crime scene,
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: Amazon purchase history that showed he bought the knife and
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: sharpener a few months before the murders, and video footage
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: of a car that looked just like his circling the
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: home of the victims. I don't remember which college student.
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: But she also saw him. Remember he had the black
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: mask on and she saw him in the house and
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: she said he had the bushy eyebrows. Then he took
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: that selfie the next morning, Yeah, which the prosecution wanted
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: to enter that showed that he had bushy eyebrows, and
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: I know the defense tried to suppress that. They got
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: it in. Also, remember he said he was like, what
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: did you say? He liked to look at stars or something,
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: and that's why he was driving around at three am
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: around their house like he was a stargazer.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: Or something like that.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: The plea was accepted on July second, twenty twenty five
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: by Judge Steven Hipler. He will formally sentence Coburger on
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: July twenty third and Boise, Idaho. The sentencing is expected
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: to take one day and victim impact statements will be
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: read at that time. I don't know what do you
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: think about someone like that? Being able to take a
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: plea deal. I mean, I understand that it alleviates the
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: cost on the state on the court system. Yeah, but
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: it is taxpayers money.
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: Isn't it up to the victims' families too? Or is
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: it just a courtesy thing where they usually talk to
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: the victims families to see if they're okay with it?
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: Because I've seen that happen before. I don't know if
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: it's a legal thing or if it's just a courtesy
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: thing to say, are you okay with allowing for a
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: plea deal?
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: You know, I don't know if there were discussions with
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: the family before the plea deal.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: But I know that that does happen on occasion, right, Yeah,
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: because then sometimes the family would be like, we don't
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: want to testify, we don't want to be a part
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: of it. We just want to put it to rest
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: and go home. Yeah. I don't know if that that
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: took place.
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: In this way, I don't know, But you know, on
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: one hand, it's like I want I wanted this guy
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: to go to trial because I had so many questions.
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: Remember when we did the episode, I was like, I
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: can't wait for trial because I feel like a lot
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: of things will be.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: Answered, well, I think, aren't all those things answering now
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: that he pled guilty.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: No, No, I had questions that had to do with
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: when she saw him in the house, Why did it
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: take so long before she called the police. Then they
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: were in the room together with those those Yeah, I
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: mean maybe some of the obviously they were tight lit
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: because they were going to trial, So I was I
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: was looking forward to the trial.
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: There'll be something the questions.
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: That I had about this case were hopefully answered. So
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: now that there's a plea deal, I don't know. Legal
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: experts weigh in on this case. Gretchen Ingle, the executive
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: director of the Center for Death Penalty Litigation, said that
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: in her experience, it's pretty common for a plea deal
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: to come together at the very last minute. However, she
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: said she is a bit mystified that prosecutors in this
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: case agreed to a deal just some month before trial.
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: One reason could be that there's a weakness in the case.
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: CBS News legal contributor Caroline policy Policy said the state
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: of Idaho will benefit from the plea deal, especially since
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: Coberg will not be able to appeal, and that may
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: also offer relief to the families they're getting a conviction
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: right away. They're getting the absolute guarantee of life behind
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: bars without the possibility of parole. It costs way more
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: money to have a capital case to impose the death
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: penalty than it does to have somebody serve life behind bars.
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: Wait, he agreed, so he's plea He pled guilty and
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: he we already know that the outcome will be life
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: behind bars.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: Well that's what his plea deal was. They took the
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: death penalty.
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: Well, okay, but sometimes sometimes there's plea deals and you
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: don't know what the sentencing is, no, and you just
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: accept it. You you agree to accept whatever it is
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: that the judge throws at you. In this case, part
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: of the plea deal was the sentencing.
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was take the death penalty off
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: of the table. I'll plead guilty and then I'll just
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: get a life sentence.
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: Without the possibility because you know that happens. Sometimes they'll
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: plead guilty but you don't know what you're sensing is.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: But you don't know what the sensing is. And that's
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: the risk you take, because I've seen that with usually
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: like dui cases and stuff. Right, and then they'll be
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: like Okay, I'll plead guilty. Then they get like twenty.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: Years and like what, I guess the benefits of him
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: taking a plea deal is it costs way more money
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: to have a capital case to impose the death penalty
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: than it doesn't have somebody serve life behind bars.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: So, contrary to what people think, it's more expensive to
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: push someone for capital punishment than it is to put
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: him in jail for the rest of their life.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: Part of the rationale that the State of Idaho and
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: prosecutors said was we're saving these families the anguish of
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: going through the appeals process. This would not be a
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: quick process. I mean, a capital case is always has
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: an automatic appeal.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: Oh after appeal, yeah, so autumn. But in this case,
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: he pleads guilty, he goes, he gets sentenced, as you said,
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: he goes to jail the next day and it's over. Yeah,
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: and now hopefully the families, you know, find some peace
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: or just be able to move on, which you know
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: is easier said than done.
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: The plea deal also allows the state to have judicial
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: resources and avoids the uncertainty of a trial and sentencing.
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: This is a slam dunk case by all accounts. The
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: DNA evidence on the knife sheath in particular. There's so
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: much evidence here, she said. But trials there's always a
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: wild card, right, There's always a chance that there wouldn't
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: be a conviction. Then there's the death penalty isn't necessarily
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: a sure thing either. However, the lack of a trial
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: means that some questions may remain unanswered. We may never
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: know the motive or the exact way that this crime
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: took place, which I think is frustrating for the families
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: as well. That's what that's the fust I understand. The
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: benefit is these families don't have to sit there and
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: listen and relive what happened that night.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: People know how long.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they don't have to go through the appeals process.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: They don't have to look at him sitting in court
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: every day knowing.
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: That they took you know, they can just know he's
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: in jail now forever.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: However, you're probably not going to get like the questions
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: I had and the questions that they probably have, those
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: are never going to get answered, and you just have
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: to be maybe.
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: One day he'll do a interview or something. Interview.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the families is against the plea deal.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: That's the gone call. I never say this right, and
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: people tell me gon Solve, Gone Solve family Aubrey gunn Solve,
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: the family of Kailey gun Solve, said Brian Coberger. Facing
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: a life in prison means he would still get to speak,
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: form relationships and engage with the world. Meanwhile, our loved ones.
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you don't think there's gonna Females constantly messaging
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: this guy, sending him letters and and you know what,
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: that gets that part of it. He still gets a life,
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: albeit in a cell. He still gets a life.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean some A lot of times people
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: create a life that's not so bad. You know, you
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: get three meals a day, you can have friends, You
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: get an education. Yeah, you can still talk to family.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can do a lot more than as if
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: you were dead.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: You get access to internet. Meanwhile, our loved ones have
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: been silenced forever. That really stings more deeply when it
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: feels like the system is protecting his future more than
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: honoring the victims past. From the from the Gonsalvice family
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: social media post, we are beyond furious at the State
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: of Idaho. They have failed us. Please give us some time.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: This was very unexpected.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: I would say that it's understandable if a family is
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: happy with the plea deal, and it's understandable if a
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: family is not happy with the pat.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: Right, And in contrast to that, the Mogan family is
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: in support of it. Ben Mogan, father of Madison Mogen,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: in an interview with CBS, said, if you get that
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: quick death sentence, you don't have to spend decades thinking
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: about how terrible you made the world. We can actually
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: put this behind us and not have these future dates
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: and future things that we don't want to have to
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: be at. We get to just think about the rest
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: of our lives and have to try and figure out
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: how to do it without Maddie and the rest.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: Of the kids. Yeah, and it won't be on the
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: news over and over again if you're changing channels and
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: you see them on there because they're giving updates.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: It's just he's in jail, right exactly. So we were
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: actually going to cover or do our best to do
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: some episodes on the Brian Coburger trial because it was
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: coming up in August, but now that he took please deal,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: we'll move on to other cases. So as always, if
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: you guys have interesting cases out there that you would
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: like us to discuss. Please DM me. We're always happy
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts, your critiques, your questions, your comments.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: So thank you for doing that, and thank you for listening.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: Thank you