Latest / Why I Knit / The magic of turning an idea into reality with Clare Mountain-Manipon

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The magic of turning an idea into reality with Clare Mountain-Manipon · Why I Knit

• 0:03
  Mia Hobbs: Hello and welcome back to series two of the Why I
• 0:06
  Knit podcast. My name is Dr Mia Hobbs and I'm a clinical
• 0:09
  psychologist who's passionate about knitting and its benefits
• 0:12
  for our mental wellbeing. Each episode I interview a different
• 0:16
  knitter about why they knit and how it benefits their mental
• 0:19
  health. This week on the podcast, I'm joined by Clare
• 0:23
  Mountain-Manipon, also known as Sister Mountain. Clare is a
• 0:27
  pattern designer who has developed her own Sweater Design
• 0:30
  School where she is a mentor for other people embarking on their
• 0:34
  journey as knitting pattern designers.
• 0:41
  Hi Clare, welcome to the podcast.
• 0:43
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Hello! Thank you for having me.
• 0:46
  Mia Hobbs: You're very welcome. It's really nice to see you
• 0:47
  again! Because we met... I was trying to think how many years
• 0:50
  ago we met at the Loop Knit Night.
• 0:53
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: I would say maybe four... five years
• 0:55
  ago. It was a while ago, I think!
• 0:57
  Mia Hobbs: It was a while ago. Yeah, I think my kids were quite
• 1:00
  small.
• 1:01
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: I know. And now I have my own kid!
• 1:03
  [Laughs]
• 1:03
  Mia Hobbs: Yes! How many months is he?
• 1:06
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: He is nearly nine months. He'll be
• 1:08
  nine months next week. He's growing at an alarming rate.
• 1:13
  Mia Hobbs: And how has he affected your ability to do any
• 1:15
  knitting?
• 1:17
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: I would say it is significantly reduced,
• 1:20
  sadly. But obviously worth it. I would say I'm lucky if I get
• 1:27
  half an hour in the evening, if that. There are some days when I
• 1:31
  am so absolutely exhausted and all I have energy for is just to
• 1:37
  flop on the couch. But I do try, because I know how much it makes
• 1:41
  me feel good when I knit. I do try to make time for it every
• 1:45
  evening.
• 1:45
  Mia Hobbs: Yeah, okay. So I usually start with asking where
• 1:49
  your story with knitting began. So where did yours start, Clare?
• 1:53
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Well, I learnt to knit when I was a
• 1:55
  really young child. It was kind of that typical story. My
• 1:59
  grandma knits. She taught me to knit. I knit little teddy bear
• 2:02
  scarves and things like that. And then there was one Christmas
• 2:06
  or New Year that my family was going on a hiking holiday, and I
• 2:10
  was at that age where I was like, "I don't want to go on a
• 2:13
  hiking holiday. I'm going to go stay with my grandma." I was in
• 2:15
  my early teens, probably like 13 at the time or something. And I
• 2:19
  went to stay with her for about a week, and she knit a jumper
• 2:25
  with me. So I chose the yarn, and it was like a chunky yarn,
• 2:30
  and it had intarsia on the front. Now, I had absolutely no
• 2:34
  idea how to do intarsia. I'm one of those knitters (I've always
• 2:37
  been that type, I think) where I'm just like, "Yeah, I'll just
• 2:39
  figure it out." I've never been afraid of skill levels. I
• 2:43
  decided to knit this intarsia jumper. It was absolutely not
• 2:47
  intarsia, in that I did it completely incorrectly. I think
• 2:50
  I kind of did standard colourwork in a very strange
• 2:54
  fashion on there. Not even like traditional. I think I was
• 2:57
  wrapping it behind every stitch. I don't even know. But either
• 3:00
  way, I ended up with a jumper, and then the love affair just
• 3:04
  blossomed and I was knitting every day all throughout my
• 3:06
  teens. I ended up studying fashion knitwear design at
• 3:11
  university and went to work in the professional knitwear
• 3:13
  industry. And now I work entirely in the handknitting
• 3:17
  industry, as an indie designer but also as a knitting pattern
• 3:21
  design teacher. So it's been a long journey.
• 3:24
  Mia Hobbs: Yeah! And you kept going basically from when you
• 3:27
  were 13 and you made that amazing jumper?
• 3:30
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I just
• 3:33
  couldn't stop once I started. So I think was about 13 when I
• 3:37
  knitted that jumper, and I remember even in my English
• 3:41
  class, we had to do a sort of presentation about any topic of
• 3:45
  our choice, and I decided I was going to do a presentation about
• 3:48
  knitting to all of my class members. I'm not sure entirely
• 3:54
  whether they enjoyed it or not, but yeah, I just loved knitting.
• 3:57
  And I've knitted almost daily ever since.
• 4:02
  Mia Hobbs: Can you remember what your classmates thought of you?
• 4:04
  Because I was always the only person knitting, for example,
• 4:08
  during my doctorate, but by that point I was 25 and over so I was
• 4:13
  kind of okay with it. But I don't know whether I would have
• 4:15
  had the confidence at the age of 15, for example.
• 4:18
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: I think I was a bit of a strange kid
• 4:22
  anyway. I didn't have a great time in school. I was bullied
• 4:27
  quite badly. And so I think it got to the point where I was
• 4:31
  just a bit like, "Meh". So I think there were some people who
• 4:35
  were interested in it, and some people who just thought it was a
• 4:37
  little bit lame, maybe, or a bit stupid. But I don't know... I
• 4:44
  didn't get any more trouble than I normally would from it, to be
• 4:48
  honest. And I think, as well, there were some people who I was
• 4:52
  friends with who were very creative, and I think they quite
• 4:54
  liked the idea that I made my own clothes, even if it was
• 4:57
  maybe through a format... I think perhaps if I was like
• 5:00
  really into sewing, maybe it would have been a bit cooler in
• 5:02
  their eyes. I think just generally, the fact that I could
• 5:06
  make my own clothes was considered quite interesting to
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  those people who were creative.
• 5:12
  Mia Hobbs: And I'm interested in the idea that the first thing
• 5:14
  you made was an intarsia jumper, which is quite high-level!
• 5:19
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah! I quite like this for other
• 5:26
  knitters as well. It depends on your personality type, but when
• 5:32
  you're learning to knit it can be very tempting to just do a
• 5:34
  very plain scarf, because it's just simple. You don't have to
• 5:39
  deal with any shaping. But people often get bored because
• 5:42
  they don't necessarily love how it looks. It's quite a long
• 5:45
  project. I suppose a jumper is as well, but I really loved how
• 5:50
  it looked. So that was kind of the motivation for me, that I
• 5:53
  really wanted to wear it and therefore I was going to do
• 5:55
  whatever it took to do the project, not necessarily
• 6:00
  expertly! [Laughs] It was definitely a bit rough around
• 6:03
  the edges, but I was so proud of it and I wore it a ton. I think
• 6:07
  that can be a really lovely way to approach knitting, in a way,
• 6:11
  choosing what you want to wear and then learning the skills
• 6:16
  involved to do it.
• 6:17
  Mia Hobbs: Yeah, I think your motivation will be greater,
• 6:19
  won't it?
• 6:20
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, exactly.
• 6:21
  Mia Hobbs: I think a lot of people give up because they
• 6:22
  start knitting a scarf, and actually a scarf is just too
• 6:25
  big. I would struggle to knit a whole scarf because I'd lose my
• 6:29
  mojo halfway through. It'd have to be a really interesting scarf
• 6:33
  for me.
• 6:34
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: There's no differing instructions to
• 6:35
  keep you going. It's all just "Do the same thing for a..."
• 6:38
  Mia Hobbs: Or a milestone, like a sleeve separation or
• 6:42
  something.
• 6:42
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, exactly. I kind of need those
• 6:45
  milestones to keep me, you know, "Just one more row, just one
• 6:49
  more row."
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  Mia Hobbs: Yeah, and I think sometimes, I've certainly heard
• 6:53
  about and I think this is true for me, that people at the
• 6:55
  beginning, because they didn't quite know the scale of the
• 6:59
  challenge they were taking on, just kind of thought, "Oh, yeah,
• 7:01
  I'll do that" where they needed something without a pattern.
• 7:03
  That's something I've heard about. Or knitted quite a
• 7:06
  challenging pattern because they didn't quite realise how
• 7:07
  challenging it was, and maybe now as a more experienced
• 7:11
  knitter wouldn't dive in, in the same way, which in a way is a
• 7:14
  shame!
• 7:15
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, I completely agree. I think you're
• 7:20
  totally right. Often as a beginner, you don't necessarily
• 7:23
  realise quite how complex things can be. I was doing loads of
• 7:27
  cables and fully charted lace stuff, just because I didn't
• 7:32
  realise that it was considered complex. And as well, this was
• 7:36
  before Ravelry, even. I think Ravelry was like 2007. This was,
• 7:41
  you know, years before Ravelry, so I'd had nothing to compare it
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  to. I didn't know any knitters other than my Nana who was a
• 7:47
  great knitter and she didn't ever discourage me from doing
• 7:50
  things that were complex.
• 7:51
  Mia Hobbs: Yeah, she must have done a good job by saying,
• 7:53
  "Yeah, go for it with your intarsia sweater!"
• 7:56
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, it's so funny to think about
• 7:58
  really, in hindsight. She never made me feel like it wasn't
• 8:02
  doable. I just sat on the couch with her and knitted! [Laughs].
• 8:06
  It was lovely. Yeah, very nice.
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  Mia Hobbs: So that was a good choice to miss that hiking
• 8:11
  holiday, as it turns out!
• 8:13
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: It totally was! I mean, even to
• 8:15
  this day, I think I'd rather sit in a cosy pub and knit than go
• 8:20
  on a hike. Is that bad?
• 8:21
  Mia Hobbs: No. It's fine. You found your zone. [Laughs] I
• 8:29
  suppose I'm interested in why you knit now and how you feel it
• 8:33
  benefits your mental well being.
• 8:35
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Okay, so I think the primary reason why I
• 8:38
  knit in general is I love clothes. I love having an idea
• 8:48
  of what I want to wear and coming up with an outfit. And
• 8:52
  then also, I'm very particular about what I like to wear, hence
• 8:59
  why I like making my own clothes because you have so much more
• 9:01
  control over the materials that you use, the colours, the shape,
• 9:07
  all of that. And I think design obviously plays into that
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  because I do get so much control over it. But I get a lot of joy,
• 9:14
  I suppose, from expressing myself through clothes. And even
• 9:18
  looking back to when I was in my late teens, I remember that when
• 9:22
  I finished school I moved on to college, and like I said, school
• 9:25
  was not a great chapter for me. But moving on to college, I felt
• 9:27
  like it was a fresh start, and I remember when I went there I
• 9:32
  felt like I could dress however I wanted because I didn't feel
• 9:37
  like I had to fit into this idea of what the people at school
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  thought about me. I could just be this new person. I could
• 9:43
  dress the way I wanted. And even to this day, it feels good to
• 9:48
  express myself through clothing. I definitely am a product
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  knitter as well as a process knitter. Even simply the process
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  of knitting is just so satisfying to me. I think I can
• 10:03
  be a bit of an anxious person and worry about, like, "Am I
• 10:06
  doing enough?", feeling like I've got this endless to do list
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  and feeling like I never quite feel finished or never feel like
• 10:15
  I'm making progress. And with knitting, you can knit and you
• 10:20
  can see your progress. You're spending time and you get
• 10:23
  something out of it. Even with long projects, you still see
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  that you're making progress all the time, and for me that's just
• 10:31
  a lovely feeling. It's reassuring, in a way.
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  Mia Hobbs: So in a way, it isn't so much about the action. It's
• 10:41
  about the feeling of, like, "This is a tangible, visible way
• 10:46
  of seeing what I did today, or in the last half an hour."
• 10:50
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, I think that's exactly it. I love
• 10:53
  the process of knitting anyway. I really enjoy making things.
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  There's something lovely about having an idea, grabbing the
• 11:00
  yarn, and then being able to knit it and create something
• 11:05
  beautiful. I have always been into things that are kind of
• 11:12
  repetitive, meditative. I don't mind, for example, folding
• 11:19
  clothes, just having a pile of stuff and just sitting there and
• 11:21
  folding it. I kind of like the rhythm of something repetitive
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  like that. And I think knitting plays into that. I really am
• 11:29
  quite happy to do these repetitive tasks. I find it
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  quite calming. But no, I think for me the primary joy that I
• 11:36
  get out of it, and the primary way that it helps, perhaps, with
• 11:39
  my mental health, is just seeing this tangible example of what
• 11:44
  I'm able to do.
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  Mia Hobbs: So the sense of achievement of having made it
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  yourself, and also a demonstration of "This happened
• 11:52
  today". And it sounds like the self-expression thing is also
• 11:56
  important with the finished object, that it's wearable.
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  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, that's exactly it. I've tried
• 12:03
  knitting other things. I like making things maybe for the
• 12:08
  home, or I've tried doing socks, and I like the practical side of
• 12:13
  it, but I must admit I'm really drawn to sweaters and jumpers
• 12:17
  because I feel like it's a greater canvas to fit my taste
• 12:25
  and my personal style into.
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  Mia Hobbs: Is that different to it being art, like a wearable
• 12:34
  art? Is it more about you showing "This is who I am" or is
• 12:39
  it both, maybe?
• 12:41
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: I think my pieces never feel like
• 12:43
  wearable art to me, because I suppose I tend to err on the
• 12:48
  side of practicality as well as something being beautiful. And
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  sometimes it doesn't feel practical to me if it's too
• 12:57
  elaborate, or a lot of design details in there. It can be very
• 13:02
  beautiful, but it doesn't feel like me because it doesn't feel
• 13:05
  functional in my daily life. I'm trying to think of how I'd
• 13:14
  describe it... I am very much into that kind of functional,
• 13:17
  beautiful knit, and so I suppose it is more just who I am. It's
• 13:24
  about who I am. And so it may even look quite mundane to
• 13:30
  someone else, but for me it's something that I've put a lot of
• 13:33
  intention into, and thought about how do I want it to look
• 13:37
  on me, how do I want it to feel, how comfortable do I want it to
• 13:42
  be. I'm not someone who enjoys wearing form-fitting stuff. I
• 13:46
  don't like feeling restricted when I'm moving around. I like
• 13:48
  kind of oversized billowy stuff. And so that's the kind of thing
• 13:54
  that I would knit because it feels like me.
• 13:57
  Mia Hobbs: Yeah. So it is very much self-expression.
• 14:00
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah.
• 14:01
  Mia Hobbs: And you must get an even enhanced layer of that,
• 14:04
  being a designer, and not just a knitter where you're looking at
• 14:06
  other people's patterns and that's the pool you get to
• 14:10
  choose from to knit.
• 14:11
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, it's just wonderful because
• 14:14
  you're thinking about every element of the design. And I
• 14:19
  must admit, I do tend to design with myself in mind. There are
• 14:22
  occasions where I'll design to a brief, like for a publication,
• 14:26
  and I'll design something that I wouldn't necessarily wear but I
• 14:29
  do like. A lot of the time I am thinking about what I want for
• 14:34
  my own wardrobe. It's just lovely having control over all
• 14:40
  of those different elements, your likes and dislikes, where
• 14:43
  you want it to fit. Even selfishly, I'm thinking about my
• 14:47
  wardrobe, you know. Yeah, it's so lovely to be able to
• 14:52
  essentially dream up whatever I want/desire and be able to turn
• 14:57
  it into a reality.
• 14:58
  Mia Hobbs: And how much of it is to do with things like the
• 15:00
  materials or, for example, things like colour or texture?
• 15:04
  Does that fit into that process?
• 15:06
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yes. So in terms of texture and colour,
• 15:11
  yes, they totally play a part, but I tend to find that most of
• 15:14
  the time my primary inspiration tends to come from silhouette,
• 15:18
  the shape of the garment, but also design detail. So for
• 15:21
  example, if you've ever bought something ready-to-wear, and you
• 15:25
  see something that maybe not everyone would see when you're
• 15:29
  wearing it, like a beautiful lining or a cuff or trim detail,
• 15:34
  those are the things that really inspire me when I'm designing.
• 15:37
  I'm just looking at my design board now and I can see I've got
• 15:42
  very simple silhouettes for most of them, but every single one of
• 15:46
  them have got maybe two to three smaller design details in there
• 15:50
  that are very unexpected and just feel elegant and
• 15:58
  intentional. Sometimes I think as a designer it can be very
• 16:01
  tempting to maybe select an all-over stitch and then pop it
• 16:06
  on a classic silhouette, and then maybe use a 2x2 rib trim,
• 16:11
  because you want to use that particular stitch, maybe you
• 16:14
  have a yarn in mind. For me, I like to approach it slightly
• 16:18
  differently and think about every single little element. And
• 16:21
  sometimes that means that I don't use a very busy stitch on
• 16:27
  the garment, because I want to focus on other things. Or if I
• 16:30
  were to use a busy stitch, then I would choose a more simple
• 16:32
  option. But I do find that it is the shape of the garment and the
• 16:38
  design details that really get me excited, and then the texture
• 16:41
  and the colour tend to come in afterwards, and I think about
• 16:44
  "Okay, what texture of yarn or colour of yarn can I use that
• 16:49
  will bring out the beauty in these primary elements that I
• 16:52
  want to emphasise?"
• 16:53
  Mia Hobbs: Okay, so the joy is in the details and the little
• 16:57
  surprises, and that's the bit that makes your heart sing.
• 17:03
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah. Honestly, I could talk about it
• 17:05
  for ages. I teach a pullover design course and I often talk
• 17:12
  about this with my students. And I think it really plays back
• 17:14
  into the work that I did as a swatch designer when I worked in
• 17:18
  the commercial knitwear industry. We would be coming up
• 17:22
  with new designs every day, and knitting up little prototypes of
• 17:25
  them, and my boss would always talk about how... you know,
• 17:28
  choose maybe two to three design elements and focus on those, on
• 17:32
  making them really beautiful, rather than trying to chuck
• 17:35
  everything at this one design. And I think the way that I've
• 17:41
  always interpreted that is it might even be that you put a
• 17:45
  functional element in your design, such as shaping, that
• 17:48
  has to be there, and so you might as well make that
• 17:50
  beautiful and turn it into a feature that you can then kind
• 17:55
  of celebrate as opposed to hide away.
• 17:58
  Mia Hobbs: To me that sounds like that's harder to achieve as
• 18:02
  a designer than, for example, putting a stitch pattern or a
• 18:08
  colourwork motif all over something, and then using a more
• 18:11
  standard design where the shaping... I guess you can use a
• 18:15
  book that can tell you the maths. But turning the shaping
• 18:20
  into a particular design feature probably is harder.
• 18:23
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, it can be harder but it's very
• 18:26
  satisfying at the end. And I tend to find, as well, that
• 18:29
  people who've gone through the process of really thinking
• 18:32
  through every single element of their design, rather than just
• 18:35
  prioritising maybe the stitch or the pattern and then putting it
• 18:38
  on almost like a template, there tends to be more satisfaction
• 18:44
  with the design because they really have chosen everything
• 18:46
  rather than going into automatic pilot and just choosing their
• 18:49
  defaults.
• 18:51
  Mia Hobbs: That's amazing. In terms of you as a knitter, it
• 18:57
  sounds like a lot of your design process is about the end product
• 19:00
  rather than the process of knitting it. How about you as a
• 19:04
  knitter? Are there particular things you gravitate towards? Do
• 19:08
  you prefer the more rhythmical stitch patterns that are more
• 19:15
  simple (if that's not a rude term to use)?
• 19:17
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: No, that is absolutely what I gravitate
• 19:20
  towards. I love a beautiful-feeling yarn. I am
• 19:27
  very tactile. I love working with patterns where I get to use
• 19:32
  a lovely yarn. I'm not too worried about patterns and
• 19:38
  variegated yarns, that kind of thing. It's not necessarily my
• 19:41
  vibe. But a really beautiful texture yarn or something in a
• 19:46
  really special colour, I'm totally drawn to that. And then
• 19:49
  in terms of the actual stitch patterns, I'm much more of a
• 19:53
  knit-purl kind of texture person. I do enjoy knitting
• 19:59
  cables but it's not my favourite. I really am very
• 20:02
  basic. I can do colourwork, I can do cables, but I've realised
• 20:08
  that what I enjoy knitting the most, what I find most relaxing,
• 20:11
  and in the end what I find more wearable at the end, is the
• 20:15
  simple stuff.
• 20:16
  Mia Hobbs: Yeah. That's good that they all match together
• 20:18
  though. It'd be tricky if you were someone who wanted to spend
• 20:21
  time knitting colourwork, but actually it wasn't what you
• 20:24
  wanted to wear.
• 20:25
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, that's so true.
• 20:28
  Mia Hobbs: And I think the main thing is that we all figure out
• 20:30
  what we need, isn't it? I was writing something about how do
• 20:34
  you make knitting more therapeutic for you, and I think
• 20:37
  that's the ideal thing, isn't it? That you find that those
• 20:40
  rhythmical stitch patterns of knits and purls, that's what
• 20:44
  floats your boat and you do that. And maybe I need some
• 20:47
  colourwork to engage my brain to stop it freelancing and thinking
• 20:51
  about other things. But it's perfect that knitting can give
• 20:54
  both of us those things, even though they're different.
• 20:56
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, that's absolutely the beauty of
• 20:59
  knitting is there are so many routes you can take it, so many
• 21:04
  options. You can go super, super complex and really just
• 21:08
  intricate stuff that is, to be honest, very fun to knit
• 21:12
  actually, if you're in the right mood. And for some people that
• 21:16
  is their thing. They love doing that. Or you can spend still get
• 21:21
  hours of enjoyment from knitting a stockinette sweater. It can
• 21:26
  still be equally as enjoyable and therapeutic.
• 21:30
  Mia Hobbs: Yeah, and I think a lot of people I've talked to and
• 21:33
  certainly something I found for myself is I need a number of
• 21:35
  projects on the go. I do need a complicated one, I think, for my
• 21:39
  brain, and also actually because I think if I knit something very
• 21:44
  easy, I can knit too quickly and get pain, like RSI. I think I
• 21:49
  need something that slows me down so that I can engage my
• 21:53
  brain in it but not hurt my shoulder. basically. But I also
• 21:58
  need (like for yesterday supervising two children
• 22:02
  homeschooling!) a plain sock on the go, so that I can see I may
• 22:06
  not have had access to my laptop or ticked anything off my to do
• 22:08
  list, but I did knit an inch of a sock. A mitten, actually, it
• 22:13
  was.
• 22:14
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Exactly. I think that's so true. I never
• 22:17
  used to be someone who had multiple projects on the go. I
• 22:22
  think possibly budget reasons as well, like I'd buy a yarn, I
• 22:26
  would knit the project intended for that yarn, and then once I'd
• 22:29
  finished that project, I'd buy a new yarn, new project. Now, as
• 22:33
  an adult, I have a bit more expendable income and I'm able
• 22:37
  to have maybe two/three projects on the go. I do find though
• 22:41
  that, interestingly, I tend to favour one project, and the
• 22:45
  other two tend to be at the bottom of the pile and I really
• 22:49
  almost have to force myself to work on them. So I wonder if I'm
• 22:53
  possibly a monogamous knitter that is attempting to branch out
• 22:59
  into having multiple projects on the go. But yeah, I do like that
• 23:04
  single-tasking thing because, again, perhaps it's the sign of
• 23:07
  progress for me. Sometimes I feel like when I'm working on so
• 23:09
  many things at once, I don't get as much done on a single
• 23:12
  project. I have to wait longer for the final result.
• 23:15
  Mia Hobbs: It dilutes it, doesn't it, I suppose.
• 23:16
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, exactly. So I wonder if that's
• 23:17
  maybe why, actually, thinking about it.
• 23:20
  Mia Hobbs: Are there times your work forces you into polygamy
• 23:23
  with a knitting project?
• 23:25
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah. [Laughs] Totally. Yeah, I'll
• 23:27
  have multiple things on the go, and then normally I'll have
• 23:30
  maybe a personal project as well, and then now with Nico I
• 23:34
  tend to have a little something on the go for him as well. I
• 23:40
  think I do find it more relaxing, actually, to just have
• 23:43
  a single thing. I think I'm like that in daily life. I like just
• 23:46
  doing one single thing. I'm not a big fan of multi-tasking. I
• 23:49
  feel a bit overwhelmed by it. And there is a bit of that that
• 23:52
  can creep in if I have too many things in my knitting basket. I
• 23:57
  do like having a bit more focus.
• 24:00
  Mia Hobbs: Do you think you've learnt more about what you need
• 24:02
  as a knitter over time, and how you work best?
• 24:07
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, I definitely do. Probably in the
• 24:11
  last five years, I would say, I've really started being very,
• 24:18
  very... what's the word... I think through my... I'd be more
• 24:22
  impulsive in the past about what I was going to knit. So I'd be
• 24:26
  more impulsive with yarn purchasing, but also with
• 24:29
  projects that I was casting on. I'd always find a project that I
• 24:31
  liked and a yarn that I liked and cast on, which sounds
• 24:36
  fantastic, right? But my experience is that sometimes
• 24:40
  with the end project, I feel disappointed because it's maybe
• 24:43
  not something that I'm going to regularly use. I'm not going to
• 24:46
  wear it as much. And I've realised that for myself, I need
• 24:51
  to consider all of that. And so it's really only in the last
• 24:54
  five years that I've kind of discovered that about myself,
• 24:58
  and I find that these days I have much less situations where
• 25:02
  I knitted something and I realised, "Oh, this isn't quite
• 25:06
  what I wanted it to be." In the past, there'd be a few more
• 25:10
  where I'd knit a sweater and I'm like, "Oh, I like it, but it's
• 25:12
  not..." I don't use it very often.
• 25:15
  Mia Hobbs: So it's more intentional now.
• 25:17
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, it's more intentional now for
• 25:19
  sure.
• 25:23
  Mia Hobbs: I was just going to ask about colour - about whether
• 25:27
  colour makes a difference in terms of... it sounds like
• 25:30
  you're very much a tactile, texture person in terms of the
• 25:35
  knitting feeling. I don't know if that's a comfort thing?
• 25:38
  That's probably my word, not yours.
• 25:40
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: I think it could be a comfort thing,
• 25:42
  yeah. When I'm saying it has to feel great, I don't necessarily
• 25:48
  mean that it has to be soft as well. I really love a woolly one
• 25:52
  as well.
• 25:53
  Mia Hobbs: But it's a texture experience for you?
• 25:57
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: A texture experience, yeah.
• 26:00
  Mia Hobbs: And how about the colour? Does it matter what
• 26:01
  colour you're knitting with?
• 26:02
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yes. I have... I call it my internal
• 26:06
  colour palette, because I find that I'm drawn to the same
• 26:09
  colours all the time. I went through a stage... So the time I
• 26:13
  was talking about when I was in college, and I was exploring
• 26:16
  what I wanted to wear, was very colourful and I really enjoyed
• 26:20
  playing with colour. And then when I went to fashion school, I
• 26:24
  actually found that I pushed that down because I wanted to be
• 26:29
  cool [laughs] and I wanted to wear black like all the other
• 26:31
  fashion students. And I think I didn't allow myself to have fun
• 26:36
  with colour in the way that I should have at the time. And so
• 26:40
  it took a little bit of undoing after fashion school, and
• 26:43
  leaving the commercial knitwear industry, because again you do
• 26:48
  feel maybe that peer pressure to look a certain way or wear what
• 26:55
  is considered fashionable. Now, I've tapped into what colours I
• 27:01
  really enjoy wearing. I'm just drawn to them. I can literally
• 27:11
  just like picture them in front of me, the colours I'm drawn to.
• 27:14
  And I suppose I don't tend to veer away from them too much,
• 27:19
  because there are times when I've done that: I like a colour,
• 27:22
  but then I find that I don't tend to wear it. So I think
• 27:27
  colour for me is something I love playing with. I love
• 27:31
  exploring it in the home. I love exploring it in art, things like
• 27:35
  that. When it comes to my knitwear, whether I'm designing
• 27:40
  or whether I'm knitting for myself, it's a bit more boxed in
• 27:45
  just because I suppose I'm thinking about that
• 27:47
  functionality myself. And also, when you're designing, colour is
• 27:52
  a little bit limited by photography as well. You can't
• 27:54
  go too dark, because it could be hard to photograph the details
• 27:58
  and things like that, so it can be a bit more limited. But no,
• 28:00
  certainly with knitwear, I get excited by it but it's within
• 28:06
  limits, to a certain extent. It's within these boundaries of
• 28:10
  my mind where I'm like, "Okay, this has got to be functional
• 28:12
  too. How's it going to fit a certain wardrobe?"
• 28:14
  Mia Hobbs: And how would you describe your kind of comfort
• 28:16
  palette, your internal palette?
• 28:18
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: It is neutrals with pops of more
• 28:22
  earthy pinks and clays and turquoise and olives, that kind
• 28:28
  of things. I've got plenty of navy and camel and grey,
• 28:34
  charcoal, cream, that kind of thing, in my wardrobe. But in
• 28:37
  terms of pops of colour, they tend to be more accents, and it
• 28:41
  will be blush pinks, clays, turquoises, olives, that kind of
• 28:47
  thing. It feels feminine but quite natural.
• 28:52
  Mia Hobbs: And it sounds like it feels like it's not a fashion
• 28:55
  school hangover. It's you.
• 28:57
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: No. It feels very true to myself. And
• 29:01
  what's really interesting is now, Nico is nonverbal at the
• 29:06
  moment, and I must admit I find myself buying him clothes in my
• 29:11
  internal colour palette because it's just what I'm drawn to. But
• 29:16
  it's hilarious because often we'll go out and people will
• 29:18
  say, "Oh, you're matching today!" I really have such a
• 29:21
  formed colour palette.
• 29:25
  Mia Hobbs: I wondered whether you're knitting for Nico,
• 29:27
  actually thinking, "Oh, I'm going to knit in a bright yellow
• 29:30
  because it's not for me and it's different and it's fun." But it
• 29:36
  sounds like he's been assimilated into your palette
• 29:38
  currently.
• 29:38
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: I know, he has. It's quite bad. [Laughs]
• 29:40
  I do have certain colours though that I knit for him that I love,
• 29:44
  that don't look good on me. I'm very, very pale. Mustard yellow
• 29:48
  is not the best colour on me. It can make me look a bit sallow.
• 29:51
  But I really love mustard yellow and he looks amazing in it, so I
• 29:54
  do knit things or buy him things in mustard yellow because he
• 29:57
  just looks great in it. But I put him in loads of pinks and
• 30:00
  people are just like, "Oh, it's a girl!" But I'm a strong
• 30:04
  believer that colour is colour, and anyone can wear colour. And
• 30:09
  yeah, he does tend to wear my internal colour palette.
• 30:12
  Mia Hobbs: I'd love for you to tell me about a significant
• 30:15
  knitting project, Clare, if you've got one in mind.
• 30:18
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: A significant knitting project...
• 30:20
  I suppose it would be a design project that I did knit, and I
• 30:29
  believe it was my first published project. And it was on
• 30:34
  the cover of Laine Magazine. It was years ago, I think 2017. It
• 30:39
  was one of the early issues. And I remember the magazine coming
• 30:44
  out and I thought, "Oh, I'd like to design something in this
• 30:46
  style." It felt quite connected to my own personal style. I
• 30:52
  designed in The Fibre Co's Road to China Light. It's actually a
• 30:57
  yarn that I picked up just a sample of, to knit my sister
• 31:01
  something, not that long beforehand at a little Christmas
• 31:05
  market. And I thought it was a beautiful yarn. And when I came
• 31:09
  up with this design idea (it's a drop shoulder sweater) it had
• 31:12
  this kind of gridded lace pattern that went up the side
• 31:15
  panels of the sweater and then kind of draped over the
• 31:17
  shoulder. I just wanted something really light but cosy
• 31:22
  to knit it in, that would have good drape, because it had a bit
• 31:24
  of positive ease in there, and I'd had a feeling that this Road
• 31:27
  to China Light would be beautiful for it. And yeah, I
• 31:31
  was just shocked, to be honest, that they would even include me
• 31:34
  in the magazine as a new designer, but also the fact that
• 31:38
  it was eventually on the cover, which just blew my mind. And I
• 31:41
  can remember calling my sister saying, "You won't believe
• 31:45
  this!" You know, I never would have imagined it because I still
• 31:49
  felt very new in the handknitting industry. Yes, I've
• 31:52
  got this experience working in the commercial industry, but
• 31:57
  no-one knew me. I'm still not a fully-fledged established
• 32:01
  designer in the way that a lot of designers are. But to me that
• 32:05
  just felt like a huge milestone, and it made me think, "Maybe I
• 32:09
  can do this. Maybe I can design things that people will want to
• 32:13
  knit."
• 32:14
  Mia Hobbs: Did that change things for you, that kind of
• 32:17
  belief? Or did being on the cover open doors?
• 32:19
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: I think I started taking myself more
• 32:20
  seriously. I think I gave myself a bit more trust that I was
• 32:29
  capable. In terms of whether other people maybe took me more
• 32:33
  seriously, a little bit of that maybe as well. I did get
• 32:37
  published again by other people, and maybe they saw that as a bit
• 32:42
  of proof that I could do it. But I think the biggest thing that
• 32:47
  changed really, from having knitted that... and it was a
• 32:50
  lovely knitting experience, and I went on to work for the Fibre
• 32:54
  Co as well. So in a way, even just yarn choice was so
• 32:57
  significant. They were a lovely company. I no longer work for
• 33:00
  them, but they were a lovely company to work for and a really
• 33:03
  important part of who I am now, as a person working in the
• 33:09
  knitting industry. It just felt significant on a lot of
• 33:14
  different levels. I still have that sample under my bed. It's
• 33:18
  one of those kind of sweaters that I'll often pull out if I go
• 33:20
  to a knitting festival or something, because I have a
• 33:24
  happy feeling related to it.
• 33:26
  Mia Hobbs: So it sounds like that design was really important
• 33:29
  for you in terms of your mindset as well.
• 33:33
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, 100%. It created self-belief,
• 33:36
  really. In the beginning, I was very much figuring out things as
• 33:41
  I went along and feeling an amateur, in a way. Even though
• 33:46
  it's funny because obviously I had a lot of training. I'm
• 33:49
  trained as a knitwear designer, I've done pattern cutting, I can
• 33:52
  work with machine-knitting, handknitting. I have this
• 33:55
  history of skills that I've learnt over the years, not to
• 34:00
  mention the hand-knitting that I'd done for years and years
• 34:04
  beforehand. But I still went into it very much feeling unsure
• 34:11
  of myself and my capabilities. And I think for me, being able
• 34:15
  to go through that process... and it really was so different
• 34:19
  to anything I'd done before, because I'd only ever
• 34:21
  self-published previous to that, and I wasn't working to
• 34:24
  deadlines in the same way. I wasn't working within someone
• 34:27
  else's process. I had my own ways of doing things that I had
• 34:31
  to adapt. But having come out of it, I realised that I was more
• 34:35
  than capable of doing it, and it gave me that self belief to
• 34:38
  continue.
• 34:40
  Mia Hobbs: And now you have your own design school where you're
• 34:43
  teaching other people to design?
• 34:45
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah, I do. So I have a school called
• 34:50
  Sweater Design School. In the past, it's opened up once a
• 34:54
  year; now I'm doing it twice a year, now that Nico is in
• 34:59
  part-time childcare, so I have a bit more bandwidth to offer to
• 35:02
  it. I teach beginner designers how to design their first
• 35:07
  pullover. And I suppose for me, it echoes back to that
• 35:12
  experience with that pullover that I designed for Laine. It
• 35:15
  was that thing of learning that I'm capable, and that confidence
• 35:18
  that comes from having done it and gone through the process.
• 35:21
  What I find with my students is that that first jumper that they
• 35:25
  design, there's so much umming and ahhing, feeling uncertain.
• 35:32
  It's a very complex process, especially when you're grading
• 35:35
  into multiple sizes. There can be a lot of anxiety around
• 35:38
  whether you're going to be able to achieve it. But once they
• 35:42
  come through the end, and they get to the end of the process
• 35:45
  and they've got that final pattern designed, there's so
• 35:48
  much confidence that comes from it. And then they go on to do
• 35:50
  another one and another one, and it just builds confidence more
• 35:53
  and more as they go through it. So I absolutely love doing that
• 36:00
  with them.
• 36:00
  Mia Hobbs: So it sounds like you get a lot of joy from taking
• 36:02
  other people through that process, that you remember was
• 36:05
  pivotal for you.
• 36:06
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yeah. It's so exciting because I'm
• 36:09
  there with them from the very beginning. So we are coming up
• 36:13
  with mood boards, then turning them into sketches, and then
• 36:16
  swatches, and grading it out in a spreadsheet, so you really do
• 36:20
  see every part of the process and you can see your students
• 36:24
  transform this early idea into a fully fledged garment that they
• 36:29
  publish, and then other people knit it! It's such a rewarding
• 36:36
  experience, not only for the student, but also for me to
• 36:38
  observe it. I feel so delighted for them, because I know how
• 36:41
  proud they must feel.
• 36:42
  Mia Hobbs: Yeah. I don't think you mentioned the name of your
• 36:46
  pullover.
• 36:47
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Oh! The name of my pullover is the Hay
• 36:50
  sweater.
• 36:51
  Mia Hobbs: Hay sweater. Oh yeah, I do remember seeing it on the
• 36:54
  front cover, because I think that was around the time we met
• 36:57
  each other.
• 36:57
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Yes, I think it probably was.
• 36:59
  Mia Hobbs: But I'll obviously put a link to it in the show
• 37:01
  notes. I always end by asking: what's the greatest gift that
• 37:06
  knitting has given you for the rest of your life?
• 37:09
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Oh my goodness. I would say the
• 37:11
  greatest gift that it has given me is that feeling of being able
• 37:18
  to turn my ideas into reality. That is the most wonderful
• 37:24
  thing. I love being able to dream something up and then
• 37:27
  execute on it. And it's this tangible thing.
• 37:32
  Mia Hobbs: So there's a certain magic in that process from idea
• 37:35
  to a creation.
• 37:36
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Magical. Yeah.
• 37:39
  Mia Hobbs: That's amazing! That's a really interesting and
• 37:41
  different answer than I've heard before. Thank you so much for
• 37:47
  joining me on the podcast. It's been an absolute pleasure to
• 37:50
  hear about all your ideas. And I think you're the first designer
• 37:54
  actually, so it's really interesting to hear your
• 37:57
  designer perspective.
• 37:58
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: Wonderful!
• 38:03
  Mia Hobbs: If people want to find out more about you and your
• 38:05
  sweater school, how would they do that?
• 38:08
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: So all they need to do is head to
• 38:10
  www.sistermountain.com and there you'll find my blog. I update it
• 38:14
  regularly with tips on knitting pattern design and resources.
• 38:19
  And also there is a section all about Sweater Design School. So
• 38:22
  if you are interested in hearing more about it when it opens up
• 38:25
  again, which should be sort of late August time, then you can
• 38:29
  sign up to be notified in that area.
• 38:32
  Mia Hobbs: Super. Clare, thank you so much.
• 38:35
  Clare Mountain-Manipon: That was wonderful! Thank you.
• 38:42
  Mia Hobbs: Thank you so much for listening to the Why I Knit
• 38:44
  podcast. If you'd like to find out more about therapeutic
• 38:46
  knitting, you can follow me on Instagram @knittingistherapeutic
• 38:50
  or at my website www.therapeuticknitting.org. If
• 38:53
  you're enjoying the podcast, I would really appreciate it if
• 38:56
  you could leave a rating and a review on your podcast app. This
• 38:59
  will help grow the podcast and let more people know about the
• 39:02
  therapeutic benefits of knitting. And don't forget to
• 39:04
  subscribe too. Thank you!