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How Sunil Asija Established Trust Within HR While Becoming Employer of Choice · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories podcast,
0:08
where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from
0:11
their successes and be inspired by how they've overcome
0:14
adversity. My name is Anthony Kotaspodi,
0:17
and today's guest is Sunil Esija, human resources director
0:21
at Oakland County, Michigan Government.
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Now, Oakland County focuses on delivering essential public
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services, ensuring HealthEquity and inclusion for nearly 1.3
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million residents, and supporting over 39,000 local
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businesses that offer a wide range of initiatives from public
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safety to workforce development to help community members
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thrive. Sunil stepped into his role on
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February 1st, 2023, bringing years of experience in employee
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engagement, leadership development, and performance
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management. He holds an MBA from Edgeward
0:58
University and ABA in organizational communications
1:02
from the University of Wisconsin Whitewater.
1:05
Sunil is also certified in the Pro Sci Agkar methodology, which
1:10
helps organizations manage change effectively.
1:14
Under his guidance, HR strategies align with Oakland
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County's vision to boost educational attainment to 80% by
1:22
2030. As a passionate leader and
1:25
mentor, Sunil shares insights with students and professionals
1:29
shaping the next generation of HR talent.
1:32
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2:13
All right, back to our guest today, the human resources
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director of Oakland County, Michigan, Sunil Esija.
2:19
Thanks for making the time to Share your story today.
2:21
No, thank you, Anthony. Looking forward to it today.
2:24
So, Sunil, you've got an interesting work background,
2:27
right? You were at Kraft Foods for 20
2:29
years, initially in sales, but eventually worked your way into
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accounts payable and managing audits.
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You've been an adjunct professor at two different universities.
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You've owned your own business, and now you're the human
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resources director for a pretty sizable county in Michigan.
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Help me connect the dots on how all these interests evolve.
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Yeah, I wish I could connect them as easy as possible, but it
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was just through growth and understanding.
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And, you know, I I fell in love with the human side of the
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business. That's why I got into change
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management, started my career, like I said, at Kraft Foods,
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where I learned to manage people.
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I moved my way into, like you said, customer service,
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transportation, and then an adjunct professor.
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So as I learned through the years and my managers, good and
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bad, I learned how to strategize and how to make a business
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better. So when I got hired here as the
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chief learning development officer, my goal from the
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executive was to make us a learning organization.
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So I wanted to bring in my learning experience, my
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education experience, all my years of management and bring it
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to Oakland County. So I did that within the first
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year. I've stopped all virtual
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training and went in person. COVID, of course, was there.
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So I wanted to bring everybody together as one, bring our
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community back. And that came with trust.
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And that's where pro side change management comes in.
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It first starts off with trust. My employees need to trust what
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I'm doing, what I'm trying to do.
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I communicated everything I was doing to eventually a year down
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the road, I had an opportunity to take on this director role.
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So my now my role is more strategic, bringing change will
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bringing data into something that's not part of government.
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So to help answer your question, Anthony, it was a process I
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didn't expect to happen, but it's one of the best things I
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ever did. I mean, some sales experience,
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some finance experience. This is not the typical path
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into an HR role. How did that door, that
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opportunity at Oakland County government, open up?
4:32
Yeah, it's one of my favorite stories I tell my students and I
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tell everybody as I speak is when I first got hired, it was
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for learning and development, right?
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It was the chief learning development officer.
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And I noticed my boss, Stephanie County Executive April Lynch,
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doing both roles. So she was doing her job and
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also a director job. And I realized, you know, she's
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got a lot on her plate. And I straight out asked her.
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I said, you know, I can do the director of HR position.
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She's straight out said, no, I don't see you doing that.
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You are my chief learning and development officer.
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So I took that as an opportunity, Anthony and I saw
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to learn from her. She's a great leader.
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She is a great mentor of mine. And I just said, let me help you
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out. Give me some things that you I
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can do to help your load less. I started helping, I started
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doing little things. And again, like I said, within a
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year she realized my potential, my strategic thinking, my
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ability to learn and my ability to manage people.
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A year did the date I was hired, I was promoted or appointed to
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the director of HR. And let's take a step a sidestep
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here just for a second. What specifically does the
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Oakland County government oversee?
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What are the services that you guys are delivering to your
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citizens? So we do a lot.
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We do police, we do ME office, we do medical examiners, we do
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the clerks, we do courts. We also have internal.
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So we also do economic development, we do equalization,
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which is house assessing. Of course we support learning
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and development to our communities.
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We provide that to them. Finance, we also provide
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finance. So we have a big group about
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5000, a little more than 5000 employees.
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We also have the parks. We have very a high level of
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park recruitment that we deal with.
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So we have a big environment that we deal with.
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Where is Oakland County in Michigan?
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Sure. It's in.
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It's close to Pontiac, MI, so it's just kind of north.
6:30
You got to hold up the mitten. Yeah.
6:31
You got to hold up the mitten, correct?
6:33
Yeah. So we're right, right here, give
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or take. We're pretty close to about that
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area. OK.
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You guys emphasize a lot of HealthEquity and inclusion.
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Has that become more challenging to embrace these ideals in
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today's climate? It is and again that's another
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one of our bigger groups that we deal with.
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Health division is really big and just the economics and not
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to go political, but also because of what's happening
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through grants and funding, it's getting limited and we have to
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do, I hate to say it more with less and it's just COVID really
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changed how we did things, which is actually a positive and
7:14
negative. We're able to support more via
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online. We have a lot more opportunities
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for people to learn online to also medical advice online.
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So there's just a lot that we deal with and just the economic
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development going on around here, it's challenging for us
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and we have to find unique ways to do it.
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Medical advice that you're delivering this is to your
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employees, to your citizens, both.
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Yeah. So we also provided for our
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employees and then citizens if they have a hard time coming, We
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have a lot of locations. We kind of keep it open for them
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to come in, but we do have that opportunity to go either door to
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door. We can go visit them or we can
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try online and discuss it with them online.
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And what kind of medical advice is being provided?
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Very general. Nothing, you know, we, we, we
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support, you know, where we give shots or different things.
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We don't provide the medical advice as a doctor.
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Sorry for any confusion. It's just more of support where
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we can connect, where they can come hours of service and
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different things like that. Now, I think it's probably safe
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to say so now that there's can be a little bit of a negative
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stigma to working in government. Why is that?
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It is because things like we don't do anything right.
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And I hate to say that so bluntly, but that is completely
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false. I've, I've never worked so hard
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in my life and I worked for big organizations, but we worked
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very hard. And one, it's more of the
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passion of what we do right. So going into government's a
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different mindset. It is slower, it is getting
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faster, but it's more of providing a service and helping
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people and that's one reason I wanted to get into government.
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Before I came here, I was at the state of Wisconsin and I
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realized the passion of helping others.
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It's not all about money. I know we do support that, but
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we have a great balance of benefits, personal life that we
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also work life balance is great here.
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It's just the stigmatism of when in the old days when somebody
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gets hired, go into government, you'll never leave.
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You'll be have a job for the rest of your life.
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That is still the case. We still provide safety, we
9:21
still provide stability, but now it's in a different mindset.
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It's more of growth and it's just not doing the same thing
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over and over again. I joke about it and I say we
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used to be paper pushers. Now we're just moving into the
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electronic world and using AI and using data.
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And data is not a common thing in the government, at least for
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Oakland County. So we're bringing that in.
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So we're bringing a lot of information to make it new
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because what we want to track for the younger groups, we're at
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a stage at our our company right now of Oakland County that about
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7 to 800 retirees are going to happen in the next 5 years.
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So we need to either start thinking succession planning and
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bringing the younger group in to help them understand what they
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can provide. And how do you do that?
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How do you attract that new generation?
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I'm going to go back to my 1996 sales job.
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I'm selling it. I'm selling Kraft Foods.
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I'm having my employees sell. What we learned for Oakland
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County is just sell HR, sell Oakland County and what good we
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are. We've brought in videos, we're
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going networking, we're meeting any recruitment position that we
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can get into. We're going local colleges.
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It's really selling what Oakland County can do and what it can
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provide for everybody. Really trying to change what
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that current stigma is. Yeah.
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And that's another thing I'm bringing in customer service.
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So a lot of times it's always the fear of OHR is calling now
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I'm trying to bring in, let's sell it.
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Let's be more collaborative with our employees or our customers.
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And I'll say that politely. Let's let's be consultants with
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them, let's help them through these.
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Let's be a partnership. It's just not here's what HR
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says. Let's do it because everybody
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has unique challenges. We want to be supportive.
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We want to be there. One thing again I joke about is
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it was I hate the pass along. So when somebody would call,
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they would pass it along to the next person and the next person
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I wanted the answers done there at the time.
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So if you don't know the answer, go find it and reach back out to
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them. So there's one point of contact.
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Another cool thing that I brought in because I heard a lot
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of people saying, well, I don't know who my HR people are.
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Well, I brought in a calendar. So it's an HR calendar showing
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each department that we have, each person's picture on there
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and contact information. So anybody could flip through
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that calendar. They'll know who to reach.
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What's the project you've been involved with that you're most
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proud of today? That's great.
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So again, my whole background is leadership and girls.
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And I realize here that unfortunately employees didn't
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get the training to become a good leader.
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I'm not saying that they're good leaders now, but I wanted to
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provide that training. So the reason I left the state
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of Wisconsin was I was able to bring in the leadership Academy.
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What that means is working with a local college to support
12:15
leadership. So we have a 16 week course
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where we have executives teach leadership and we also have a
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college teaching leadership. So people will go through this
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cohort, they're hand picked, they have to go through a
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survey, they have to go through requisition to get into the
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class. And we graduate through the
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local college and they leave the organization or they leave the
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college and the leadership Academy with a leadership
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certification, not just from Oakland County, it is from a
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reputable university where they could take that leadership
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certificate anywhere. They're not just here, but it
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gives them the opportunity to learn what Oakland County does,
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how to grow as a leader and take it to the next step.
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So we are at our fifth core cohort and we're packed every
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cohort. We do it twice a year.
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Included in that we developed emerging leaders.
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So the people that aren't leaders yet but wanna be
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leaders, they'll go through this emerging leader, which is
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another 16 week course working with the university and then
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bringing them to the next level. So once they complete that
13:23
course, they have an opportunity to get into the leadership
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Academy. Thirdly, we got a another
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leadership Academy with another local university.
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Just a different kind of aspect. It's more of a condensed version
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because some of the people, we realized some of them are busy
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and we want to make sure they gave an opportunity to that as
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well. So we have a lot of training
13:45
going on. It's just really supporting our
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leaders. Just to clarify, this training
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is available to your 5000 internal staff.
13:54
Yeah, they're entire internal staff.
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Yeah, we are starting to now reach it out to our chill, our
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villages and our townships. We have a big community.
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So they're more of a sub group of Oakland County that we're
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also starting to provide for them as well.
14:09
Talk to me about your goal to increase the percentage of
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residents with post secondary education to Yeah, I, I got to
14:16
check my numbers here to 80% by 2030.
14:20
Yeah, Yeah, yeah. So our goal on that is like our
14:23
executive culture kind of take it has taken it from the
14:26
Michigan State of Michigan of getting 80% of residents
14:33
including employees educated and it could be a two year, it could
14:36
be anything. So what we did is we now we have
14:40
a scholarship program for my employees where we fully fund
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pretty much their education to a certain dollar amount.
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So if they are accepted into a college, we have great discounts
14:53
with colleges, local universities and we provide
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them. And there's the good thing about
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it is our goal is to have them graduate and then get into that.
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We're at 71% right now and our goal is 8020, which is 80% of
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the community. So not just your employees, but
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also the residents. Residents as well, so we also
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provide some information for them as well to help them
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support. We have a a workforce group that
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also provides that as well. And where does the funding for
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that come from? We have a lot of grants that are
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coming through, also government but also ours.
15:31
Part of ours is we set aside funding for our employees to do
15:34
that. I mean, this really goes into, I
15:37
think what you were saying before about wanting to change
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that negative stigma around working in government.
15:43
And it seems like this is got to be a great way to attract that
15:47
new generation, young people in. This is a place you can grow,
15:50
you can learn. If you want to stay here,
15:53
there's stability in working for the government.
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But if this is a stepping stone for you to somewhere else, this
16:00
is a great place to come, to learn, to grow, to get a good
16:04
portion of your education paid for.
16:06
No, exactly right. And the good thing is what I
16:08
didn't want them to do is have to stay here a certain amount to
16:11
in order and they don't have to pay it back.
16:13
Again, these are employees I'm talking about and I want them to
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really take over. Hey, I learned this from Oakland
16:19
County. I am fine with that.
16:21
I just want them to learn and grow, as you said, Anthony, and
16:24
become part of because a lot of them go back into the community,
16:26
right? And if they can say where they
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came from, it just makes us more powerful.
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And the reason I really pushed really hard for this is, again,
16:35
nothing against the older generation of government that
16:39
was kind of executing us and supporting us.
16:43
But the new leadership is more about learning, about growth,
16:46
about opportunity. So I want to really focus that
16:49
and give my employees any opportunity they wanted to get
16:53
trained. And the good thing is we also
16:56
have opportunity to bring people in to train employees as well.
17:00
So you and I were not spring chickens, but but we're not the
17:04
old guard quite yet. Does some of this innovative
17:09
thinking come from just being a little bit younger than some of
17:12
the folks that came before you? Do you think it comes from your
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corporate experience? How is this kind of bubble to
17:19
the surface? Yeah, I think it's a little bit
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of both. That's a great question,
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Anthony. I think it just comes from
17:24
really where I came from. Education has always been a
17:27
powerhouse in my house and you need to be educated and learn.
17:31
And I had great managers growing up and they had really mentored
17:36
me to become who I am today. And again, I wouldn't be here
17:38
without those. And I want to make sure people
17:40
have that opportunity. So I'm not saying that it wasn't
17:44
given before. It just wasn't.
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It was you stay what you're doing and you're happy and what
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you're doing. It was just a different
17:50
mentality. And I just want to bring a new
17:54
group into it. And I, I came in and I joke
17:57
about it and I see when I came in, the lights were off in HR in
18:00
human resources. And now I can see the light on.
18:03
And now I'm building relationships that were not
18:06
there in the past. For example, some of the courts
18:09
didn't like HR or some of the other police even didn't like
18:14
what HR did. It's just a previous group of
18:17
people that manage. I want to bring a new set into.
18:19
I want to turn the light on and show, you know what, we are
18:22
here. We're here to collaborate.
18:24
And when I came in, to be honest with you, Anthony, we did a
18:28
survey of our employees and HR was considered only 37%
18:33
trustworthy. So that killed me inside.
18:36
So that was a number one step for me.
18:38
So as I did the last two years, continued surveying, now we're
18:42
well over 70%. So it has been a big change as a
18:47
big impact. And again, it's just who I am.
18:51
I didn't do anything different than just being me.
18:54
I'd like to hear a little bit more about some of the practical
18:57
steps that you took to go from 37 to well over 70%.
19:01
I mean, I, I hear you talk about turning the light on, but what
19:04
does that look like in terms of what you changed?
19:07
So again, it starts with collaboration and it goes out
19:10
there and I and I mentioned and I joke about it, but I sold HR
19:13
from day one. I met with leaders, introduce
19:16
myself, I have a conversation with them.
19:18
I told them my game plan. I told them what I tried, what
19:22
I'm planning on doing, how I want to change resources, how I
19:25
want to change Oakland County. That was my goal.
19:28
I went to the Board of Commissioners as well and
19:30
saying, you know what, my goal in the next few years is become
19:34
employer of choice. How am I going to do that is you
19:37
need to trust me. So what I did is I want them to
19:40
trust me, so I build trust with them.
19:42
I figure out who they are, what their needs are.
19:45
It's really simple, is just selling me and being
19:49
trustworthy. When they asked me a question, I
19:51
responded very quick or I answered their question.
19:55
I also help them through difficult times.
19:57
I'm I'm a trustworthy person and I wanted to make sure if you're
20:01
having difficulties, meaning let's say a directors having
20:04
difficulties, you can call me and let's talk through this.
20:06
So. As I meant turning on the light,
20:09
it means very simple of just turning on the light and saying
20:13
I'm here, I'm here to support you.
20:15
I'm here to be part of your partnership, and I'm here to
20:17
help you through what we're trying to do.
20:19
But on the other hand, I'm here for you to do me a favor, help,
20:22
support what HR is trying to do. So it was a give and take.
20:26
And now, like I said, some of the great people I had were our
20:29
enemies. And now I'm building
20:31
relationships. We, we do have lunch, we do talk
20:34
about how we can improve their, their department, how we can
20:37
improve Oakland County. So I take their feedback.
20:41
So in the past, was it the case that maybe HR was seen as a bit
20:48
of a sour puss, like a this is just like an enforcement arm.
20:52
You only hear from them when they're going to, you know, wag
20:56
their finger at you and tell you've done something wrong.
20:58
That's exactly right. That then again, we still follow
21:01
policy. We still make sure we maintain
21:03
that we still make sure that we our employees are safe.
21:06
That's still there. That is not gone.
21:08
It's just a different angle that I'm coming around.
21:11
And one thing I asked my my manager, I asked, So what, what
21:16
happened in the past that you want to change?
21:19
It was this, it was build those relationship, break those bonds.
21:23
So that's all I did is I just did again, who I am, this is me.
21:27
So it's just a perfect fit at the time.
21:29
And I wanted to lift. My favorite thing is as I go
21:31
golfing, people will tell me, Oh, HR is here.
21:34
We can't drink or we can't swear.
21:37
No, we're humans. We can enjoy ourselves, right?
21:39
I'm HR but we can enjoy ourselves.
21:44
And so were you leaning on your pro sci ad car change
21:48
management, the certification throughout this time?
21:51
I was I followed it to AT exactly so ad car's a it it's
21:56
very cool. It's very simple and another
21:58
great example. I love examples that you can
22:00
tell Anthony, but another example is ad car and change
22:04
management even in the Olympics. So they start promoting the
22:08
Olympics now we already know when it's happening.
22:11
So ad car is just the, the way of communicating it is, you
22:15
know, the end part of it is getting people aware of what
22:18
you're doing right, awareness of letting know here's what's
22:21
happening, here's what's going on.
22:23
Then the D is helping them understand what is coming next.
22:27
And then it flows through the process of what it is for
22:30
reinforcement. So I continue reinforcing, I
22:33
continue communicating, letting them know what's happening, what
22:36
is going on. We can almost be as possible as
22:40
saying I'm being upfront as possible, right.
22:42
But again, as HR, we still have to follow policy.
22:45
We still have to follow our book of requirements that are needed
22:49
to run a business, but it's coming across in a different
22:52
way. Can you give a specific example,
22:57
a success story where following this change management framework
23:02
made a transformative impact? For sure.
23:06
So I'll give you a great example without naming Ames.
23:09
Our courts hated us, hated HR. So my first goal is I got to
23:14
break that ice, right? I want to make sure that's not
23:18
the case. So I started building a
23:21
relationship and the first time I met the administrator of the
23:24
court, we had an argument right away.
23:27
It was just a fight. It was nothing against us.
23:29
It was just the jobs that we were in, right?
23:32
It was nothing personal. But then I realized, all right,
23:35
you know what? I cannot end it this way.
23:36
This is not how I do things. I continued building
23:39
relationship. I continued talk to him little
23:41
by little. And what flipped the switch one
23:43
day was, and I'll never forget it is I was afraid to call him,
23:46
but we were going to close campus because of the weather
23:49
storm. So I thought, you know what, I'm
23:51
going to e-mail him. No.
23:52
And this is about 10:00 at night because the next day we wanted
23:55
to close campus or let him know that we're having the
23:58
opportunity to close campus because of weather.
24:01
So I called him at 10:00 instead.
24:03
I said, you know, I'm not going to e-mail, let me call him.
24:05
We had the best conversation. We just broke the ice there.
24:09
We apologized to each other. It was just where we were at at
24:13
the time, what our history was for me being in HR, him being in
24:17
the courts. Now, he is one of my closest
24:20
friends now he's willing to try different things.
24:22
We go to lunch once a month. We pick a different restaurant
24:25
where we're at. And the cool part about it is,
24:27
you know, is funny is I'll have him come into my office and I
24:31
want people to see that we have a relationship.
24:34
So people are seeing that. And the other cool part is I'll
24:37
go into the courts and people are seeing me there and you can
24:40
see us together. We're at events together, so
24:43
people are seeing the bond. That's just one example that I
24:47
did. I did it for other groups as
24:48
well. What happened?
24:51
What happened in that 10:00 phone call to change everything?
24:55
You know, I think we were just humans.
24:57
I think that's what it came out. We started talking about things
25:00
that he likes, some things that I like.
25:02
So one thing I learned to the best way that you can build
25:05
trust with somebody, ask somebody about themselves, how
25:10
they got where they got because that'll open them up right away.
25:13
And they'll tell you their whole life history and they'll say,
25:16
and now break the ice a little bit.
25:17
Then the questions will come up, well, what do you like to do?
25:20
And we found a lot then we had in common, Literally our
25:23
conversation about closing the business and work was 2 seconds.
25:27
That's all it was. The rest 2 1/2 hours was just us
25:30
talking, getting to know each other.
25:32
And we ended the conversation. Wow, what a great conversation.
25:36
And we ended up by saying I apologize for arguing with each
25:39
other. It was the coolest moment.
25:41
Great guy. What is it that you like to do
25:44
outside of work student? I, I love golf, so I'm a huge
25:49
golfer. I love to do that on as much as
25:52
I can, but I'm also kind of a video game nurse, so I also, I
25:56
play video games a lot and I also I built my own arcade
26:00
system, so it's kind of cool getting the old 80s arcade games
26:04
together and the cheesy one. I love my family.
26:07
I've spent a lot of time with my.
26:10
Family Without that Mike, the video game that you're talking
26:12
about, one of these platforms where you can play a whole bunch
26:14
of games on the same system. Yeah, yeah.
26:17
So I've made an arcade, actually.
26:18
I mean, it's going. I know you told us your age a
26:20
little bit kind of briefly, but I was a huge fan of Donkey Kong
26:24
and Asteroids and all that. So I built my own and kind of
26:28
was able to play all those with no quarters.
26:31
That's fun. What does your role there as
26:37
head of HR and Oakland County government, what, what insights
26:41
does that provide you maybe into what's going on in the broader
26:44
economy there locally? Oh, that's a good question.
26:50
I see a lot as I hear a lot. I see a lot because you know,
26:54
the trust part is great, but sometimes it gets too much,
26:57
right? Because then one of the best
27:00
things I ever heard in my life. And I don't know if this is
27:01
going to answer your question, Anthony, so I apologize, but it
27:04
is when HR has a difficult time, who do they go to?
27:09
I don't know. Who do I go to?
27:11
I'm not sure when I'm struggling.
27:13
So I have a lot of people called talking to me.
27:15
Some of the deputies will come just to get an idea of what
27:18
thoughts are, what's going out there.
27:20
You see a lot you go out in the community.
27:22
And the cool part about it is I know what's on the inside of it.
27:26
I don't go out there showing who I am.
27:28
And I hear people talking and I see what they're talking about,
27:31
what their struggles are. So then I can bring that back to
27:34
our community and help say, here are some of the things that I'm
27:37
hearing economy wise. It's just so tough.
27:40
COVID was such, again, I hate to say it because it's probably
27:44
just cliches. It was such a tough thing for
27:47
everybody that people are still trying to get out of it.
27:51
And part of that is the economy. And that's why I want to make
27:54
sure that if there's any opportunity we can do as a
27:57
county government to help support what they're trying to
28:01
do, I want to be part of it. And is it as simple of, you
28:04
know, retirees coming in? We were going to make a big
28:07
change of doing everything online.
28:10
Well, we didn't realize some of the people that are retired
28:14
aren't comfortable with computers.
28:16
So we made a stop and we realized by people talking,
28:19
let's keep those opportunities for people that just want to
28:22
manually do it in because they're comfortable that way.
28:24
We don't want to change that to sacrifice our constituents.
28:29
I guess it's that's the best word for it.
28:31
So economy wise, it's it's very difficult because you would hear
28:35
so much going on. A lot of it is out of my hands.
28:37
But what I can do is I can communicate it to my leaders to
28:41
let them know. Here's what I hear from whether
28:43
it's our employees or whether it is from the outside meeting our
28:48
residents of Oakland County. Do you have much direct
28:51
interaction with residents or business leaders?
28:55
I don't no, I'm, I'm more internal so I'm not involved as
28:58
much. But when I do go out in public,
29:00
I, I do hear a lot and also I go to a lot of events cuz again,
29:03
I'm trying to support Oakland County and I'm trying to
29:05
represent who I am. I take this badge very to my
29:09
heart and I make sure that I represent who Oakland County is.
29:12
And if I was not me and I was being something else, let's say
29:17
I I'm that would just make Oakland County not look as where
29:20
I want it to be, if that makes any.
29:23
Yeah, a lot. So you've got a lot of people
29:25
who come to you, different department heads and whatnot,
29:28
like hey, can we spit ball this? Give me a little advice on the
29:31
situation. Who do you go to for help?
29:35
That's a great question. I don't know, but I, I think I
29:37
go to one of my mentors. So my mentors, when I first got
29:40
into Kraft Foods 1995 or 6 when I first got I, he is still a
29:46
sales Rep and I still call him all the time just to help him
29:50
through it. He's still a sales Rep and I'm
29:52
the director now. And there's still that bond of a
29:54
respect that I have with him is like, let me pass this by you
29:58
because there's no judgments on that.
30:00
So I go to him a lot. I also go to my boss.
30:03
My boss, the deputy County Executive is amazing.
30:08
She listens to what I'm trying to say.
30:10
She'll challenge me on things, but it is tough sometimes.
30:14
I'll be honest with you and I'm sure a lot of the HR leaders
30:16
will tell you that it is tough. Where do we go?
30:21
Where are. Things going, do you think you
30:24
know, Where do you see opportunities for HR innovation
30:28
in government? I see it going up, up and up.
30:31
I mean, it is data-driven, it is AI driven, it is networking, It
30:37
is, again, I, I take HR into a sales job, right?
30:40
I know that's going to sound really weird, but I got to sell
30:44
HR. The more I can sell it, the
30:46
understanding people get, which includes government.
30:49
So I just see it getting stronger and stronger, and I
30:52
hate to say it rudely, but the old way of how HR was done is
30:56
not there anymore. To me, it is more of a
30:59
relationship building of people, collaborating, helping them
31:03
understand what's going on and supporting our employees.
31:06
So again, I just see it going up.
31:10
You said it's going to become more data-driven, more AI
31:14
driven. Can you talk about specifics
31:16
there, how either you're already using those or how you intend to
31:21
use them going forward? Sure.
31:22
No, that's a great question. We're newbies in the AI version
31:26
of it and data, we've never been data-driven.
31:29
We've always been kind of going based on our gut, which is
31:33
nothing wrong. We still use that, but now we're
31:35
taking data. So we moved our whole platform
31:37
into an ERP system where all our information is going to be
31:41
utilized. We used to do everything hard
31:44
copy. We now we're into a system where
31:47
data is coming better. We're moving into a recruitment
31:50
software where we can see DEI number down to really the, the,
31:54
to the employee level. We're looking at departments
31:58
where they're at. So we're taking that data and
32:01
we're generating how we interact with different communities,
32:04
right. So if we see a great example, if
32:06
we see one certain community focusing on one specific job,
32:11
then we know, hey, you know what, now we know where to
32:13
target a little bit or take that target to another community
32:17
where we can bring more employees where they might not
32:19
have a chance. So instead of them coming to us,
32:22
that data is helping us go to them and pick them specifically.
32:28
You said something at the very beginning of our interview that
32:30
I want to go back to because it's kind of stuck in my head.
32:32
You guys went away from virtual training and have now do
32:38
everything in person. Talk to me about why, first of
32:44
all, and then second of all, how that transition has been
32:47
received. Sure, sure.
32:48
So now I'll be honest with you now we're going a little bit of
32:51
virtual little little classes. We are.
32:53
But the reason I wanted to be in because it was about the time
32:56
where COVID just ended, right and people were home all the
32:59
time. And what I realized is there's
33:01
no, no bonding around employees. I want people.
33:05
We're so big. I want people to connect with
33:07
each other. And the best way to do it is
33:10
bringing them in person, having that opportunity where people
33:12
get to meet each other in different departments.
33:14
Yeah, we've talked virtual a lot, but let's meet in person.
33:18
So I wanted to bring everybody in and show them.
33:22
Great example is I brought our new employee orientation.
33:25
It was online but I brought it in person and funny part was I
33:29
was offering swag for people as the first one, just just to show
33:34
how important it is I build relationships with them again.
33:38
That was the reason it was a struggle at first.
33:40
Don't get me wrong. People were very comfortable to
33:42
switch off their camera and I knew that and I wanted to stop
33:46
that because I trained for about a year virtual and I hate it
33:50
when people turn that off. So I don't want to give them
33:53
that option. So it was a struggle in the
33:55
beginning, but as start as people started seeing it, wow,
33:58
this is great. We like to be in person.
34:00
We like to see these. And then the main thing is the
34:03
interaction, right? So when I'm interacting with
34:06
people are training, even my trainers, there's more
34:08
one-on-one. There's more personability and
34:10
more understanding that we are people, not just a video screen.
34:16
So it's, it's, it took a long time to build that trust, but
34:19
people are starting to love it, start to understand it.
34:22
Now that we have that, now we can go a little more virtual.
34:25
Now we're doing more hybrid. So some people are in person and
34:29
some people are virtual, but our main goal is really more in
34:32
person training. And the people that are virtual,
34:35
are they sitting at home taking the trainings?
34:38
Are they in the office? But maybe just a different
34:40
office, different physical location?
34:42
Yes. So both to answer your question,
34:44
some are remote, not 100% remote.
34:47
We are a hybrid function here, so some are working from home,
34:51
some are in person, some are in the office.
34:54
So it varies depending on where you're at.
34:56
That's why we're transitioning back to a little bit of both
35:00
because some like it in person and then it gives an
35:03
opportunity. You can either come in person or
35:05
you can be higher. So now lots of career stops for
35:11
you along the way, moving to, you know, different parts of the
35:14
country, I'm sure lots of life things happening behind the
35:17
scenes. What's a particularly big,
35:20
serious challenge that you've had to overcome in your life?
35:24
How did you get through that? What did you learn as you look
35:27
back now from it? Sure.
35:29
That's probably, again, one of my favorite things is so as you
35:33
saw, I was with Kraft Foods for about 20 years, pretty stable.
35:37
I was always taught you stick with a company and you're there
35:40
for the rest of your life. That was my goal.
35:42
I made my way through sales, customer service, management,
35:46
got my way through that. But then unfortunately Kraft
35:48
Foods was bought out. Lucky for that, lucky for us,
35:52
they were bought in 2016. And I didn't want to move my
35:56
family to the next location. I thought, you know what, here's
35:59
my opportunity where I could try something different.
36:03
So I took, I didn't take the job down in where I was supposed to
36:08
go in Chicago. And I said, you know, I'm going
36:10
to try something on my own. Started applying, couldn't find
36:13
anything. But then I fell in love with
36:16
opportunity to be in change management.
36:18
I had a professor from my graduate degree.
36:21
Hey, what do you think about change management?
36:24
Got my first client, got certified, got my first client.
36:28
So I did that about five years. And then I was just burnt out.
36:31
My kids were so young. I was feeling like I was
36:34
missing. I was just working so much.
36:35
Money was great, don't get me wrong.
36:38
So then I took, I said I'm done. I'm going to try finding
36:41
something permanent instead of looking for that next job.
36:44
I love what I do, but I got burnt out and I was actually out
36:48
of a job for about a year, year and a half.
36:51
So I was devastated. And again, I still get the
36:54
shimmers to this day. We were in financial trouble.
36:58
We were almost bankrupt. I got in high credit debt.
37:01
I was working in the local golf course just to make ends meet.
37:05
I really demeaned myself as far as I can go.
37:08
I would take any job really to work.
37:10
And I just had to say I had to believe in something that was
37:14
going to make it better. And I had this opportunity a
37:17
year and a half, a year and a couple months to work for the
37:20
state of Wisconsin. So all I wanted to do is just
37:22
train. I didn't want to do anything
37:24
else, just train. And I took a huge pay cut.
37:28
I was barely living, but at least I had a job, right?
37:31
So I started scratch all over again.
37:34
I started fresh. Within three months, they asked
37:37
me to become the manager there. I didn't want to.
37:40
I'll be honest, I didn't want to do it.
37:41
I just want to train. But then I took the opportunity
37:44
to become a manager there, started making some change.
37:47
And then this opportunity came and I grew up in Wisconsin, so I
37:50
was there pretty much all my life.
37:52
And this opportunity came in Michigan, not once, not twice,
37:57
three times. And I kept on over and I just
38:00
kept on passing it up. And then a buddy of mine that I
38:02
went to college with, who was one of my best friends says, you
38:05
need to check it out, try it, see what it looks like.
38:08
OK, I put my application, got the interview, met all the
38:12
people, went through four or five interviews.
38:15
And I'll never forget one of the questions came from the deputy.
38:18
And she said, so how do you train our employees to train
38:23
change culture? And I said, I can't, you can't
38:27
train employees. It has to start from the top.
38:29
If you can start from the chop top, the change culture, you
38:32
have a vision. That's how it goes.
38:34
Dead silence amongst the whole group.
38:36
I thought, Oh my God, I'm not going to get the job.
38:38
So then I talked to my current boss and she goes, let me
38:41
interview again. We talked again.
38:43
And then, well, OK, I didn't expect anything.
38:46
She goes, here's what happened, Here's what we think. 2 weeks
38:50
later I get a call saying yeah, we would like to invite me to
38:52
meet the executive. I never drove, I never visited
38:56
Michigan, only been there once in my life and I put 100% trust
39:01
in her and I met the executive. He asked me one question goes
39:04
what do you like to do? That's all he asked.
39:07
He said, well I tell him I like this and he just said, you know
39:10
what, I'm trying to be a learning organization.
39:13
How you going to help that? And all I told the executive is
39:15
I will give you 150% of what I have.
39:19
What I learned, I learned in my craft days that I have to leave
39:22
my craft tracks. What that means is I have to
39:25
leave who I am and I have to leave Oakland County and bring
39:28
Oakland County to where it needs to be at the next level.
39:31
Long story short, I got hired here, moved here, left my family
39:37
there for about 6 months. Just a test to make sure I made
39:40
the right decision. Brought my whole family here
39:43
within six months. Moved my whole family here after
39:46
being pretty much born and raised in Wisconsin.
39:49
Daughter was a senior in high school, my son was a freshman
39:53
and they took a chance on me and they came here.
39:56
Wow, There's a lot to unpack there.
39:59
You went through a bit of a roller coaster.
40:01
So yeah, yeah, yeah. There's.
40:04
So there was some career changes along the way that I think the
40:07
the real big thing that first happened was you're unemployed
40:11
for a little over a year, correct?
40:14
On the verge of bankruptcy, taking any job that you can just
40:19
to make a few dollars. And not that you're above it,
40:24
not that you're better than, you know, people that are working
40:27
these jobs, but to have your career kind of going up and to
40:31
the right. And now all the sudden it feels
40:34
like it's falling through the floor.
40:35
Yeah, it was. That's a big hit to the ego.
40:37
That's a big hit to your identity.
40:40
Yeah, it was devastating. Again, the good thing is I was,
40:42
I'm not a big drinker, so I didn't get involved in that.
40:44
But I I just got into other avenues.
40:46
I started eating a lot. I gained a lot of weight and you
40:49
can see my health was gone down. I was actually diagnosed with
40:53
type 2B diabetes. So I was just, it was just a
40:57
struggle through my, my family went through a lot and I
40:59
couldn't show them again. I had supported them, but they
41:02
understood I needed to do something and golf was what
41:05
saved. And be honest with you.
41:06
That's why I joined the that's why I worked for the she was, I
41:09
was on the golf fleet. She was, do you need a job?
41:12
I will give you a job at $11.00 an hour.
41:15
And I washed carts. So I put my pride aside.
41:19
I'm a master's degree holder. I was high post in Kraft Foods
41:23
and I took my pride and said, you know what, I need this to
41:26
get me through. So golf got me through that.
41:28
And the person that was the golf pro has been a life.
41:32
That's for me. She's been great.
41:34
I still talk to her here and there.
41:36
But yeah, it was it was probably one of the hardest things I ever
41:40
had to deal with. And I never thought I would, to
41:42
be honest with you. I thought I was safe and secure.
41:47
Who were you able to lean on for help during that time?
41:50
You mentioned the golf pro, you mentioned getting that $11.00 an
41:52
hour job which helped and sort of, you know, golf is an an
41:56
outlet for you, but who else could you go to?
41:59
Who else could you lean on during this time?
42:00
Yeah, You know what? I hate to say my wife was there
42:02
for very supportive. She understood what I was going
42:05
through. But I really didn't go to
42:06
anybody. I just did it myself.
42:07
I just had to keep going. I had to keep going through it.
42:11
I just believed in myself because I had such a good
42:14
background. I talked to a few people, but no
42:17
one I could really lean on. I didn't want to, I didn't want
42:20
to show. And I know this is the pride in
42:21
me, so I apologize. I didn't want to show anybody
42:24
that I was struggling. I wanted to show that I was
42:26
still strong and I could still get through.
42:28
But I have the inside. I was just burning inside and
42:32
just, it was, it was a lot that I did on my own, to be honest
42:35
with you. As you look back on that time
42:38
now, knowing what you know, would you have done it any
42:40
differently? No, because I wouldn't be where
42:47
I'm at. Yeah.
42:48
So the at that time, I probably should have stayed with Kraft
42:51
Foods. But then where would I be?
42:52
I'll probably be in the same spot, probably not doing what I
42:56
can do, what I love to do. So no, I don't think I would now
43:00
at this time, at this stage, because this has been probably
43:03
the best thing I ever did in my life.
43:04
I still think back to my day. Yeah, I was just thinking about
43:07
it on Sunday, just OK. I've never had this opportunity.
43:11
I'm building these people networking.
43:13
I'm having a podcast with you, Anthony, that would never have
43:16
happened in the past. My name is out there now.
43:19
I'm hearing, hey, somebody knows you.
43:21
I don't even know who these people are.
43:23
So my name is out there in the community.
43:25
And I don't think I would be here today if what happened in
43:29
the past didn't happen to me. For people listening today that
43:35
are maybe currently going through something similar,
43:38
right, they had a a pretty good job, pretty good career, and for
43:42
reasons that may be beyond theirs now, they find themselves
43:47
in a difficult situation. They're unemployed, they're
43:49
underemployed. What advice do you have for
43:51
them? Yeah, I wish I could give
43:54
advice. I'll do my best.
43:55
What I'll do is what I did is I trusted myself even though it's
43:59
hard. You beat yourself very hard.
44:02
You send out so many resumes, you continue sending them.
44:05
You get rejected or you never get a call or you go through
44:08
that third interview and you still don't get it.
44:11
All I can say is just trust who you are.
44:13
Trust what you got. If you do have that person,
44:16
don't, don't go what I do. Find that person who will help
44:19
you. So really just trust who you are
44:22
and don't take anything that you think is belittling you at all.
44:25
Again, I took that. I was washing golf carts,
44:27
getting a $5 tip that made me excited.
44:30
So really just and it goes down to trusting who you are and your
44:35
ability. Might not happen overnight, but
44:37
something will happen. Here's a great experience where
44:41
I was just a trainer making very low money.
44:44
Made my way within three months I made my way into a new city, a
44:49
new state, became a chief learning and development officer
44:53
and now with the trust and my abilities I became the director
44:57
of human resources that puts a lot of trust in somebody and I
45:00
joke about it. How long do you think I
45:03
officially have Anthony of HR experience?
45:07
Tell me if you tell me I just a quick question, just a interview
45:11
back to you a little bit. What do you think based on my?
45:15
Just a few. Years.
45:16
Exactly. Yeah.
45:17
So nothing there's you can do a lot of things if you can take
45:20
your ability from day one, which I did from 1995 all the way up.
45:25
And I take that experience. I have great people under me
45:28
that do the job that no one HR is.
45:31
But I'm here to make it a better place and make it to the next
45:34
level of human resources. And I've been through a lot of
45:36
training. Don't get me wrong.
45:38
I I've had classes again, that doesn't take you into the real
45:41
world, but I learned from great mentors.
45:45
So yeah, it's it's you can do it.
45:48
Just really sit back and I'm, I know my number will be out
45:51
there. I'm here for support.
45:53
If you don't have that person, I am here.
45:54
I got to be honest with you. It's just not open county.
45:57
I support. I support whoever needs it to be
45:59
honest with you. Now what I try to do is I try to
46:02
give back. I've had a lot in my life.
46:04
Now my turn is to give back to others.
46:07
I'll pay it forward now. What's your superpower, Sunil?
46:11
I love what I do now, pretty much I love what I do.
46:18
It's a passion for your job. 100%, I would not have it if I
46:21
didn't. Again, going back, if I didn't
46:23
lose what I had. I didn't know I had it.
46:26
I didn't. I don't know.
46:27
How do you say that? But now I'm glad I have what I
46:30
have because I lost a lot at that time.
46:32
I'm honestly, I'm at a point where I was even surprised.
46:34
I'm still acidic here. There was times where I thought
46:37
about it. Yeah, it was tough.
46:40
It was a tough. Gets me a little.
46:44
Yeah, it is a it's a dark tunnel, yeah.
46:45
Yeah, it was dark. And I feel, I feel it for
46:47
everybody. Now.
46:49
I am also a coach, so I work for a company that coaches people
46:53
through these about empowerment, about trust, about when you go
46:58
through struggles in life, how do you handle those?
47:01
And again, I'm glad I did it myself.
47:03
Again, I had support, but really it was doubting me.
47:07
Yeah. So this wasn't like a few weeks
47:09
or a couple of months. This was over a year of, you
47:13
know, and, and for people who haven't been through something
47:16
like that, they don't realize how confusing that can be.
47:21
You've lost a piece of yourself. You've lost your identity.
47:25
You don't understand how you fit into the world anymore.
47:27
Yeah, you feel. And then and then please don't
47:29
take this any other way. You feel worthless because you
47:32
have a family that you support and you think that is my role,
47:35
right? My role is to support who my
47:38
family is and how they get where they are, what they need.
47:42
So when I, when I started getting there, I told my kids,
47:45
if anything turns out I'm not you're going to leave college
47:48
with no debt. And that's still my goal is now
47:51
when they leave college, I'm not going to have them have any
47:54
debt. I'm not saying that's for
47:55
everybody, but they've been through a lot too.
47:57
And it's just, it's tough that it's still chokes me up every
48:01
day. And I think back and even to
48:03
this day, I still get nervous. If we're spending too much
48:06
money, I have a panic attack and my wife and now I have a
48:10
therapist that I talked to and just helps me through it that we
48:14
did nothing wrong. It's just what would the
48:17
circumstances that we are involved and I'm glad I got
48:20
through it to be honest with you.
48:21
You know, and it's interesting to me that in this time of
48:24
hardship, this opportunity to join the Oakland County
48:28
government came up and you passed it not once, not twice,
48:35
three times, Correct. What made you finally what why
48:40
were you passing yet first of all, all three times when you
48:43
needed something. And then what was different
48:45
about that fourth time? You're like, all right, I'll
48:47
check this out. The first time was I'm not good
48:50
enough, to be honest with you. I don't have the capacity to do
48:53
our capability to do it. I don't have the background to
48:55
do it #2 is a little bit. When I saw it again #2 is the
48:59
same reason. Why would it keep coming up?
49:02
Why would this keep coming up? I'm not.
49:05
So I'm not qualified for it. There's no way really.
49:07
The third time when it popped up again, I thought OK, this is a
49:10
song. Third time has to be a charm and
49:13
must think somewhere out there. I don't know who it is.
49:16
I'm not really religious, but something is bringing this back
49:19
to me over and over again. I'm going to try and that's all
49:23
it was is let me see. I tailored to what I needed it
49:26
to be. Long story short, I got it,
49:29
which is still just phenomenal in me.
49:32
And at that time was just amazing.
49:35
Even though I was working at the state of Wisconsin, it didn't
49:37
seem I deserve it. How about that?
49:40
That's probably the better word. I don't think I deserve, hate to
49:43
say to be happy, right, to enjoy what I'm doing.
49:47
But the third time came and there's a reason.
49:49
There's a sign. Something's telling me just
49:51
apply. And then a friend of mine said,
49:54
yeah, you got him, Just he's supporting it.
49:56
Just try. Let's see what happens.
49:58
And that's all it was. Yeah.
50:00
How's fear of rejection, too? That was a lot that was I was
50:03
finally comfortable again. You comfortable.
50:07
You were comfortable. Again, well, I had my job at the
50:09
state of Wisconsin. I was comfortable.
50:12
I had a job. I had nothing to worry about at
50:15
that time. Do you?
50:17
Think the that initial doubt that you had would have existed
50:23
if you hadn't been unemployed for a year.
50:28
Do you think you were still carrying some of that with you?
50:30
I think so, yeah. I think that was still, that was
50:32
always there too. And unfortunately, that's where
50:35
I think I stuck with the same company for so long because I
50:39
didn't think I was good enough. But yeah, what did it when I
50:45
became a change manager and I started running, I started
50:47
realizing, you know what, I have more capacity, I have more
50:51
learning, and I can be more of a change manager and a strategic
50:57
leader. And I just continued growing and
50:59
I had a lot of reflecting to do when I lost my job.
51:03
Like, wait a minute, some of the nights where I was depressed,
51:06
but some of the nights were also coming.
51:08
You know what? I am pretty good.
51:11
I, I should be, I should be better where I'm at, right?
51:15
I should be able to give back. And I never really looked in
51:17
government. It was actually, it was the
51:20
connection I made. So my when I worked at one of
51:24
the local colleges in Wisconsin, my boss at the time left the
51:30
college and went to the state of Wisconsin.
51:33
He's the one that called me, say you need to apply for this job,
51:36
you'd be a great fit. So it's the connections that I
51:39
continued to make that started making me think, you know what,
51:43
I'm kind of a good person. People trust me, People rely on
51:48
me. They think I'm good at what I'm
51:49
doing. That was kind of like the first
51:51
step of me feeling more confident in life.
51:54
So granted, there's some days where I feel a little too
51:56
confident. That's when my wife comes in and
51:58
says lower your head a little bit.
52:02
You know, and this last point that you hit on, I think is the,
52:05
the importance of the power of your network, your friends, your
52:09
family, the people that you know, when you're going through
52:12
a time like this, 'cause I know a lot of folks going through
52:14
this now where you're looking for a job, you're applying to
52:17
100 places. Nobody's responding.
52:19
A is filtering you out. It's like, what do you do?
52:22
And this is the power of your network, like, and the time to
52:27
to build that network, to build your friends isn't in the moment
52:31
of crisis. It's as you're just going about
52:34
your daily life. And then the time to tap those
52:38
people on the shoulder then is when you're in a time of need.
52:41
Yeah, I think that's a good point.
52:43
And the good thing about it, too, is if you build those
52:45
strong relationships, they'll come get you.
52:47
They'll see that they're there for you.
52:49
You don't have to reach out. You don't.
52:51
Maybe you do. Don't get me wrong.
52:52
But he reached out to me knowing that I remember this guy, he was
52:57
pretty good. Let's bring him in.
52:58
We need a new trainer. Let's bring him in.
53:00
So it's those connections that you bring it.
53:03
I said it before, that's why I wanted to leave my mark
53:06
everywhere I go. And I learned this from my
53:08
mentor, is when I used to go into grocery store selling Kraft
53:11
Foods. You can sell Mac and cheese,
53:13
right? That's not a problem.
53:15
What can you sell yourself? So when I wanted to leave that
53:18
area saying, you know what, when a manager would leave and say,
53:22
hey, that's my craft Rep, I didn't want that.
53:24
I wanted, hey, that's Sunil, he's my craft Rep.
53:27
I wanted to leave my craft track somewhere.
53:30
I want to leave my mark so they know who I am and do that to
53:34
this day. Any favorite books or podcasts
53:38
that have been helpful to you that you would recommend to our
53:40
listeners? Yeah, it's great.
53:43
So there's this, I don't know, one minute manager that I read a
53:47
lot. It's a very small book.
53:49
I'm not really, to be honest with you, podcasts are just
53:51
getting into my life now. I'm more on the guitar side of
53:54
it. So I'm learning a lot about
53:55
guitar and playing. That's another thing I learned
53:58
when I was in out of a job in 2018 as I picked up the guitar
54:03
to help me kind of find some Ave. get out of it because it
54:07
could have led to drinking, it could have led to other things,
54:10
but I took up the guitar because I always want to do it.
54:12
So I listen to a lot of those podcasts, but there's one minute
54:15
manager is amazing. It it just it's so cool.
54:19
It just puts it really perspective and it puts it down
54:23
and different things. How to manage people, how to
54:25
treat people, how to relate to people.
54:28
And I don't want people to think, oh, that's the director,
54:31
I can't talk to him. That book has helped me bring it
54:34
down and speak to people at different levels and help them
54:36
understand we're just human here.
54:38
We're just trying to make this place better.
54:41
Let's figure out how we can do it together.
54:44
Any daily habits that help keep you on track or get your day
54:48
started? Yeah, I was just actually
54:50
talking to one of my employees. So when I go into the office,
54:53
and I learned this about hotly when I first started work is
54:57
there's a cabinet that I have, I turn on the key and that's my
55:01
work key. So when I get into the office, I
55:03
turn on the key, literally physically turn on the key.
55:07
And I'm in that director role, right?
55:08
And when I leave for the day, I close it and I go back to my
55:12
personal role. I get back to who I am because I
55:14
truly believe, even though people say it, you have to
55:17
either be the same or different at work.
55:20
I'm different at work than I am at home.
55:23
I can't be a director at home. I can be a director at work.
55:26
And that key has literally saved me in my life, is getting me
55:30
going. I do that every day.
55:32
Even when I came into my Home Office, I turned on the key.
55:35
So when I leave, I will. Turn off What's the biggest
55:40
difference people would notice about you between your work and
55:43
your home life? Like I said, I'm a big, huge
55:47
nerd and I love video games and I love Star Wars.
55:50
If you can see it. I'm a KISS fan.
55:53
I bring that to work as well. So it's just a different thing
56:00
at work. I have to be myself, but not as
56:04
strong, if that makes any sense. I have a great sense of humor.
56:07
I love cracking jokes, but I have to show that.
56:10
I can't show that as much as work because I want people to
56:13
see that I'm here to work but have fun a little bit.
56:16
I want them to be themselves. So that's a that's a tough one,
56:20
but that's what you'll see. Behind me is Star Wars nerd,
56:24
kiss fan and an arcade guy. That's it.
56:27
I love it. Sunil, I've just got one more
56:30
question for you today. But before I ask it, I want to
56:32
do three things. First of all, if you want to get
56:35
in touch with Sunil, he's given us permission to hand out his
56:38
personal e-mail address or his work e-mail address, I should
56:41
say, and that is a SIJAS. So his last name is CJ and the
56:47
first initial S CJS at oakgov.com, acija.s@oakgov.com.
56:55
You can also find him on LinkedIn.
56:57
Just look up Sunil Acija, Oakland County, Michigan, and
57:01
we'll have links to both of those things in the show notes
57:03
and then also their general website, oakgov.com, oakgov.com,
57:09
oakgov.com. And as a reminder for folks, if
57:13
you want to get more employees access to benefits that won't
57:15
hurt them financially and carries a financial upside for
57:18
your company, reach out to us at AD back benefits.com.
57:22
Finally, if you'll take just a moment to leave us a comment or
57:25
review on your favorite podcast app, you will hold a special
57:28
plates in our hearts forever. So last question for you, Sunil.
57:33
One year from now, what is it you hope to be celebrating?
57:36
We are going to be an employer of choice.
57:41
We are ranked #9 within Oakland County as the best places to
57:46
work right now. So that we, we, we broke the top
57:48
ten so far. So my next goal with a year from
57:51
now, we should be employer of choice.
57:53
We should be hopefully one or two.
57:55
That's Michael. And who puts out this this
57:58
survey? There's a bunch of groups that
58:00
do it. There's local groups that put it
58:02
out. There's some other companies
58:03
that are out there doing that too.
58:05
We've won a bunch of awards recently, so we're making our
58:08
way that we're getting there. We haven't won a lot of awards,
58:11
so that's what also I bring in as well.
58:14
So that's the goal is I want, I want to be on the map.
58:16
Not just Oakland County where people think is in that in
58:19
California, it's Oakland County, Michigan.
58:22
That's where I want to be. I want to be on the map.
58:25
So you know, Asijah, I want to be the first to thank you for
58:28
sharing both your time and your story with us today.
58:30
I really appreciate it. Oh.
58:31
Thank you very much. It's just a pleasure, Anthony.
58:33
Thank you so much for the opportunity.
58:36
Folks, that's a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories
58:39
podcast. Thanks for learning with us
58:40
today.