Latest / Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries / Episode 112. Move Your Feet (ft. Paul Martin)

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Episode 112. Move Your Feet (ft. Paul Martin) · Minnesota Masonic Histories and Mysteries

• 0:00
  decades ago, this author told an athlete something that he doesn't even remember saying last week.
• 0:07
  They messaged him.
• 0:09
  I finally get it.
• 0:11
  I'm putting it to use now.
• 0:12
  And it's made a big difference.
• 0:15
  That is the strange math of teaching, parenting and coaching.
• 0:20
  You plant hundreds of seeds, you forget most of them.
• 0:25
  you think they weren't listening, but they were.
• 0:28
  They just bloom on their own timeline.
• 0:32
  Often you think they're not listening to you, that they're teenagers and it's going in one ear and out the other.
• 0:39
  You think, what's the point?
• 0:41
  I've said some variation of this 15 times and they still screw it up.
• 0:46
  You start to wonder if any of it matters if you're just talking to a wall, but you can't force someone to internalize a lesson right when you want it.
• 0:58
  That's not how growth works.
• 1:00
  You don't get to choose the timeline.
• 1:03
  You plant the seeds.
• 1:05
  Some bloom early, some take years to grow.
• 1:10
  your job, isn't to make them get it.
• 1:12
  Now your job is to keep planting.
• 1:16
  You don't just say it once.
• 1:17
  You try it a million different ways to get the important ideas to connect.
• 1:21
  Stories, facts, data, metaphors, examples.
• 1:26
  Sometimes you bring in someone else to say the exact same thing you've been saying and hoping it clicks.
• 1:32
  You have no idea which little thing will get stuck in their brain, which throwaway comment becomes a turning point, which story they'll remember 20 years later when they're facing something hard.
• 1:44
  You can't predict it, you can't control it.
• 1:47
  All you can do is keep showing up and keep planting.
• 1:52
  This author ends this with parents, teachers, coaches don't despair.
• 1:57
  They are listening.
• 1:58
  Maybe not perfectly, maybe not when you want them to, and you can never tell which seed will start to grow, but they will eventually.
• 2:09
  The timeline isn't yours to decide.
• 2:15
  have you seen that in your career?
• 2:17
  Yeah.
• 2:17
  I mean that's, that's beautiful.
• 2:19
  I love that.
• 2:19
  Who, who is that?
• 2:20
  Steve Magnus.
• 2:21
  Steve Magnus.
• 2:23
  I mean it, I relates to me so much as far as just like in my experience, you know, um, growing up and, maybe the willingness to, to learn, um, and how long it, it takes me to learn lessons and, and after the fact, much later being like, oh, that's what, that's what they meant.
• 2:41
  Oh yeah.
• 2:42
  That makes sense now.
• 2:43
  There it is.
• 2:45
  There it is.
• 2:46
  Yep.
• 2:46
  And then also the frustration on the back end of not necessarily frustration, like the, after listening to that, like the, um, having the patience to continue to, to keep.
• 2:59
  Providing hopefully lessons that can be an impact to, to youth and to our student athletes and to kids.
• 3:05
  And like those did for me.
• 3:07
  Mm-hmm.
• 3:07
  You know, also the appreciation of the, same parents, coaches, staff that were, were willing to take the time to do that.
• 3:14
  Um, you know, for me that's extremely powerful and also what a great message for, for today and, and, and our ability to be present and, and keep dropping those seeds and a lot of it comes out later, but I think mostly stuff like say the parents that, you know, would say to me as far as, you know, things that are, are healthy and not healthy, and things that I decided a lot later in life to, to follow, you know, where, just wouldn't listen right away when it came out.
• 3:41
  Eat the veggies.
• 3:42
  Right.
• 3:43
  You know, don't drink, whatever, whatever.
• 3:44
  You know, all the lessons that, all the eye rolls we have to kinda learn on our own, you know?
• 3:47
  Mm-hmm.
• 3:51
  nhl.com states, Paul Martin has proven valuable at every stop in his NHL career.
• 3:57
  A glue type player who contributes at both ends of the ice.
• 4:02
  You were a two, two-time NCAA champion at Minnesota, former Minnesota, Mr.
• 4:06
  Hockey at Elk River High School, selected by the New Jersey Devils in the second round in the 2000 NHL draft.
• 4:14
  A 14 year NHL veteran.
• 4:16
  You are in your sixth year on the U of M staff.
• 4:19
  And third is Director of Player Development with Minnesota Hockey Royalty with us today.
• 4:25
  Paul Martin.
• 4:25
  Great to, great to have you in studio.
• 4:27
  Very flattering.
• 4:28
  I'm honored to be here.
• 4:31
  What's it like being behind the bench now?
• 4:34
  I love it.
• 4:35
  I mean, going back to what.
• 4:36
  How we opened this about learning, you know, what it is like to be a, a, a coach and be on the other end of, of that is, has been a really big learning experience for me.
• 4:46
  I've learned so much, you know, um, on how to better communicate, you know, the game, to our student athletes, to our players, um, the business that goes into it, I think the biggest thing is I just have been reminded even after my transition from the end of my career, how much I just enjoy being around the game, you know, and, and the guys, um, we have a really good group of kids that, that wanna learn.
• 5:11
  They wanna be there.
• 5:12
  Um, obviously I grew up, that was back when the golfers were on TV every night.
• 5:17
  So I, I, you know, Friday, Saturday and grandma and grandpa'cause I wanted to be a golfer, so I still, you know, bleed the, the maroon in gold.
• 5:23
  And so very fortunate that I was able to come back and.
• 5:27
  Go back to school and earn my degrees, as an undergrad and graduate assistant.
• 5:31
  So Coach Mosko to let me do that.
• 5:33
  And it's, it's, I it's been great, you know, um, a lot of really good players that we've had come through and continue to have success.
• 5:41
  Some that are going to the Olympics now, and so just, yeah.
• 5:44
  You know, the favors and combs and Matthew Ni and Cooley and a lot of guys.
• 5:48
  So it's just fun to be a part of, of that journey.
• 5:51
  You know, whether the, the seeds that I, that I plant are, are, they're picking up now or maybe down the road.
• 5:56
  So, um, yeah, And how tremendous to go back and complete your bachelor's degree, the U of M 2021 and then went on to finish a master of education degree in youth development and leadership in 2023 through the School of Social Work.
• 6:12
  Do you ever spend time at home or is it just constantly on the go?
• 6:15
  Yeah, I mean, part of when I left after my junior year in 2003 from the University of Minnesota to pursue a career in the National Hockey League, I promised my mom, Beverly, that was that you need to go back and finish school.
• 6:29
  And 17 years later, I would've never thought I did.
• 6:33
  But that was the opportunity that was presented to come back.
• 6:36
  Um.
• 6:37
  I go back to school and be a graduate assistant.
• 6:39
  And at the time, I didn't have much going on, you know, being done with the NHL career.
• 6:45
  And so I think it, going back to school when you don't have to focus on a social life and playing hockey and all the other things, it was actually, I really enjoyed it.
• 6:54
  I learned so much from a lot of, great professors and, and educators, um, as far as youth development and, and leadership.
• 7:01
  And it was a, it was a lot of fun.
• 7:03
  You actually, I actually paid attention and took good notes and asked questions and was a lot more involved than when I was 16 years pre, previously.
• 7:11
  Um, so I'm glad I did.
• 7:12
  I do like to learn.
• 7:13
  I, I love learning new things and, um, listening to people that know a lot more about stuff than I do.
• 7:18
  So, um, I learned a lot.
• 7:22
  It's hard to imagine how difficult it must be for a student athlete.
• 7:27
  A contract is being dangled in front of you.
• 7:31
  Having the conversation with parents and family, what do I do?
• 7:34
  Well, you know what you want to do?
• 7:37
  What, what's that like?
• 7:38
  Yeah.
• 7:38
  And, and it's changed so much.
• 7:40
  I mean, I, I think, um, cause technically I really didn't wanna leave.
• 7:44
  Like I loved being at the university and the class that we, that I came in with, we're still, we talk a lot today, like every day we're on a group thread and we had just won our second national championship after my junior year.
• 7:57
  And so I was planning on staying just'cause I, um, I loved it, it was great.
• 8:01
  But the opportunity presented itself, um, in New Jersey and l Lamar, the gm, who I was so fortunate to be a part of that organization, had talked to my agent, who I had just got Ben Hankinson and Jeff Solomon.
• 8:13
  Um.
• 8:15
  About the, um, NHL having a lockout the next year.
• 8:19
  That's right.
• 8:19
  The following year, which it did.
• 8:21
  So I would've been in the minors, and so Lou had said they had a spot.
• 8:24
  K Danko had just retired, and, uh, Oleg Te Rodowski went back to, to Russia, I believe.
• 8:29
  So like it was a spot to, to, um, and development wise, I felt like I was ready.
• 8:34
  It was just hard.
• 8:35
  Like I was a homebody.
• 8:37
  I think I, I love being at home and, and being in that comfortable environment.
• 8:40
  And so it came down to probably the best decision for, for me as a hockey player to pursue that.
• 8:46
  Um, and uh, it was definitely challenging that first year.
• 8:50
  It was, it's a lot different, but I would question about that.
• 8:52
  Yeah.
• 8:52
  What is it like to transition from D one is big boy hockey and it was WCHA when you played and now Big 10, and we have the, the other leagues that reshuffling.
• 9:04
  how much different was it really on the ice in when you bumped up to that level?
• 9:11
  It was drastically different.
• 9:12
  I think the, just the speed and the size, um, of the players and the skill level was so much different.
• 9:20
  And then though the, the league was a little bit older, so you'd have a couple younger players on, on each team, you know, vying for a spot and, um.
• 9:30
  I was for,'cause I think part of the, the deal when I got to New Jersey, pat Burns was the head coach.
• 9:35
  Oh yeah.
• 9:35
  And he was known to be a pretty, uh, tough, hard-nosed coach.
• 9:39
  Um, and we had Larry Robinson and, and, um, Jacque Lapper year ran the d who won a Norris in, uh, in Montreal, that Canadians and yeah, I learned so, so much for them.
• 9:51
  And I think part of the deal was we're gonna bring Paul in, we're gonna let'em develop him.
• 9:55
  And David Hale, who's, uh, one of my good buddies in a North Dakota alum mm-hmm.
• 9:59
  Would be in and outta the lineup and, um, healthy scratched and, we'd do video and you'd work at these guys after practice.
• 10:05
  And, um, pat I don't think was allowed to talk to us or yell at us because Peppers, yeah.
• 10:11
  Really.
• 10:11
  So I think like, he didn't say a word to us all year.
• 10:13
  It was more Larry and Jock and the other defensemen.
• 10:16
  And so it was, when we talk about planting the seeds earlier, like the environment that we were in was very fortunate.
• 10:23
  I don't think players get that.
• 10:24
  And you're playing with my first D partner with Scott Stevens.
• 10:27
  Brian Alki.
• 10:28
  And they just won a cup.
• 10:29
  So like, it couldn't have been a better spot to learn the game and be hockey players than there.
• 10:35
  Oh my god.
• 10:35
  You know, so, but it's back to the, the original, like nowadays you, the kids have so much pressure and expectations, you know, you have your parents, which I think their dynamic has changed in, in, um, how they, you know, push or pull kit their kids and you have a advisor eight.
• 10:51
  They all have young advisors.
• 10:52
  I, we didn't have'em back then until you were gonna sign.
• 10:55
  They have what advisors, like a, a agents, it, early agents.
• 10:58
  It's agent.
• 10:59
  Yeah.
• 10:59
  And yeah, it's crazy.
• 11:00
  And you have all these different coaches.
• 11:02
  They have player development from the teams talking to him in, in college.
• 11:06
  Uh, you know, that carrot is, it's enticing, you know, a contract and you're gonna play a year.
• 11:11
  And then, you know, so it's, it's hard to explain to someone in college, like, you wanna make sure you are developmentally ready as far as like strong, as strong physically and mentally as as you're gonna be.
• 11:24
  So when you get that opportunity, you're ready.
• 11:26
  You know, like it's, a lot of guys granted it, it's, it's hard, but get, get lost in the shuffle going early, and then you're caught in the miners.
• 11:33
  And so it's, it's trying to, it's hard to, when they have that big carrot, I should say cake.
• 11:37
  Nobody really wants to eat the carrot, you know?
• 11:38
  Good point.
• 11:40
  Not leaving for the carrot, but they, yeah.
• 11:42
  Um, it's changed a lot that, that dynamic.
• 11:45
  Yeah.
• 11:46
  You broke into the NHL with the devils as you mentioned.
• 11:49
  2003, 2004.
• 11:51
  You finished tied for second among New Jersey defensemen with a plus 12 rating.
• 11:56
  In.
• 11:56
  One of your six goals was an overtime winner against the LA Kings on February 16th of oh four.
• 12:02
  I'm asking you to think way back, is that, is that cloudy right now or is that, is that a crystal clear memory?
• 12:08
  It, it's hard.
• 12:09
  I don't, I don't remember this, this one I don't, um, it's weird as some things I do remember in some not, but I don't, I don't remember that one.
• 12:17
  There just were so many great hockey players that I was the guy that would want, would want all the autographs.
• 12:23
  Yeah.
• 12:23
  I remember in, in oh four there was a, the World Cup and a couple defensemen got hurt and they invited me in to play.
• 12:32
  It was at the Excel center and it was for team USA and there was like Madonna and Garrin and Ka Chuck and Leach.
• 12:39
  Cellos and all Gomez and all these guys, and like, I'm just skating around with them and at the end of practice I'm going around getting autographs on my stick and they're like, Hey kid.
• 12:48
  You know?
• 12:48
  And it just like, I grew up, you know, just wanting to, as a fan, you know, like I'm from Elk River, so Joel Otto was my guy and, you know, won a cup with the flames and uh, he was done by the time I got into the league, you know.
• 13:01
  Um, Phil Halsey was another one.
• 13:03
  Oh yeah.
• 13:03
  I wore Jfa when I was a kid.
• 13:05
  Did he really?
• 13:06
  Yep.
• 13:06
  And he was done before I got into the league.
• 13:08
  But I feel like for me it was like the Madonna, um, to meeting him was just.
• 13:15
  Surreal.
• 13:16
  And, and you know, Brian Leach and Chris Kelly just, just legends of the game legend that was, and then being able to have a beer at the time or hang out was right.
• 13:24
  Yeah.
• 13:24
  So cool.
• 13:25
  Larry Robinson tells stories of the habs.
• 13:27
  Was he, was he referring to Montreal when he wanted to make a point?
• 13:30
  Did he say, back in the seventies, we did Jacques la me and I did x, y, Z together.
• 13:36
  Probably a lot of the way that, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:39
  They were really good at that.
• 13:40
  I mean, and, and how do you argue You created the Shine a Light Foundation in 2017.
• 13:49
  The Shine A Light Foundation is a nonprofit organization raising awareness and reducing the stigma for those affected by bullying, depression, and mental health issues.
• 13:59
  Can you share some more about that, how that came to be?
• 14:02
  Yeah.
• 14:02
  Um, back when I was a.
• 14:06
  Let's see.
• 14:06
  In, in high school, we had lost a couple close friends and classmates to suicide.
• 14:12
  And then in the course of my journeys through college, in the beginning of my pro career, um, our family, uh, lost two, two cousins.
• 14:20
  One in, in high school and one in college that had taken their life and a close family friend.
• 14:25
  So I think for me, you see the impact that it has on the families and the communities.
• 14:32
  Um, a lot of questions, you know, like, like why, or like what, um, and this was kind of back, I feel like when it was starting to become more common, but still not really talked about.
• 14:44
  and guys that I looked up to in the NHL that were in Minnesota, like Mark Parrish had a foundation and Dan High note, um, an Elk River guy, Sean Podin, and you really saw, um, the impact that they could make.
• 14:58
  Raising funds for awareness or to give to families in need.
• 15:02
  And, and, um, so for me, that was when I realized like that was something that I wanted to do.
• 15:07
  Um, Todd Loma myself helped me kind of organize, uh, a 5 0 1 C3 and, and it was really just a couple of us and pretty grassroots early on.
• 15:17
  As far as just raising funds for different organizations, DAP and, camp Confidence and Washburn Center for Children, which we still work with.
• 15:25
  And, um, that's kind of how it started, you know, and we really didn't know what else to do.
• 15:30
  And I, I'm not the president of a i, that's my title, but like, I, I didn't understand what it is to, you know, have a nonprofit and, um, but you surrounded yourself with a bunch of great people.
• 15:41
  And that's the one thing I've learned is surround yourself with, with people that know, yeah.
• 15:46
  Know what they're doing and are really, um, you know, care about the cause and, and, and have a lot of insight.
• 15:51
  And, um, when I stepped away from Shine a Light in 2018 when I was kind of struggling with my transition, I, I kind of backed off and said, you know, someone that's not mentally healthy and, and for an organization shouldn't be really running this, this, um, foundation.
• 16:08
  And so we kind of went on the back burner, but a lot of the.
• 16:12
  Um, what Shine a Light started as is, is, um, the name comes from a Rolling Stone song, sh Shine A Light.
• 16:18
  And I'm a big classic rock guy and I grew up on music, um, from the parents.
• 16:22
  And so like, uh, music has always been a big part of Shine a light.
• 16:25
  You know, music is medicine and how do we really, um, pull that out and, and find kids.
• 16:31
  Um, so working with, um.
• 16:33
  Ml Fairview Masonic Hospital and, and they, uh, we help support their music therapy programs and art programs and kids that come through there long term.
• 16:41
  we've just really seen the impact it has on the kids to kind of better navigate their journey.
• 16:45
  You know, some kids that maybe aren't speaking or verbal, like being able to kind of share their story through music and write through words and learn a new instrument and, and record music.
• 16:56
  So many things that we've seen that really make us feel like we're, um, making an impact where we can, you know, I know it's definitely a, a niche area.
• 17:04
  Um, that's just one of the arms and one things we do with Shine a Light, um, we help H-C-M-C-A little bit too with their music programs.
• 17:11
  And then we do some, something we call like the, um.
• 17:14
  Mental fitness journal.
• 17:15
  We've worked with a couple of high schools and youth organizations where it talks or we, we teach lessons such as like visualization and, and meditation and breath work and, um, some leadership lessons.
• 17:26
  Just things that kids maybe aren't learning in school to help'em better, um, you know, just navigate their journey and, um, be able to express themselves, understand their, their life with all the pressure and expectations that kids have these days with, you know, social media.
• 17:41
  Oh, man.
• 17:41
  Comparison.
• 17:42
  It's hard to imagine being a kid in today's world.
• 17:44
  I, yeah.
• 17:45
  I, I'm so, I feel blessed to, like, when I grew up it was play outside Yes.
• 17:50
  Till the sun.
• 17:51
  And then you'd come in with all the neighbor kids, you know, there was no phones and, um, it was safe to go play outside and run around and, um, yeah.
• 17:58
  Blessed to, to be able to do that.
• 18:01
  And it's, it's, yeah, a little frustrating.
• 18:04
  The kids don't really have that simp simplicity of, of what we had Nowadays when I go home to North Dakota to see my parents.
• 18:12
  Driving through these same neighborhoods.
• 18:16
  Obviously the weather's bad there in the winter, but in June or July, these beautiful summer evenings, it really bums me out to see no kids outside.
• 18:25
  There's no bikes, there's no, the things that we did as young people, especially in the summer, running ourselves ragged until literally till the, the lights came on.
• 18:35
  Where is everybody?
• 18:36
  Is it in on the device at all times?
• 18:39
  Even on a beautiful summer night?
• 18:41
  It's, yeah, I think that's some of it.
• 18:43
  I think, uh, there's a, Jonathan Het that's pronounce the name correctly, wrote a book called The Anxious Generation, and I, I read that recently.
• 18:53
  And he talks about the decline of, um, youth mental health is directly related to first the cell phone and then social media.
• 19:02
  Social media.
• 19:03
  And he goes through it like with age, um, and the impact it has on our brain and our ability to be present and pay attention.
• 19:09
  So he thinks cell phones and social media is, there's two things, that's number one.
• 19:13
  And two is, is our, um, what you just talked about, our inability to just to go outside and have fun and, and play with the neighbor kids and the safety and that.
• 19:23
  And that's what basically youth need to, to thrive.
• 19:27
  That's one of the components they need, you know, and there's just, it's not going on.
• 19:31
  And in the book, he talks about clubs that are forming, you know, where there's camps with no cell phones and the kids go to camp and they return back and the parents are like, I have my kid back.
• 19:39
  You know, like, let's stay off the, you know, but I, I understand the hard piece, you know, like you're trying to raise a kid and, and, uh, and where, you know, it's just something that's easy to easily accessible.
• 19:50
  But yeah, it's, it's, it'd be hard to, I mean, I'm guilty.
• 19:53
  Like I tell our kids, you know, get off the phone.
• 19:55
  How old are your kids?
• 19:56
  I don't have kids.
• 19:56
  I, I call my, the, the stu the, uh, the player's kids, you know, like we, we'll talk about it in, um.
• 20:01
  in the locker rooms and stuff, they used to bring in the, their phones in the locker room and, and we had to explain like, this is like a sacred place where you come in from a day of school and, and studying and running around where you sit with the, your teammate next to you and you talk about your day and relationships and hockey and, and have fun and laugh.
• 20:19
  And they kind of started to like, okay, let's try this.
• 20:22
  And they put'em back in the dry stall and now we hear, we walk by a lot more conversation, a lot more joking around games.
• 20:28
  And it really changed the whole relationship I think of the, the team at certain point, like being able to have those conversations and, you know, so it's, I think hard to do in the moment, but over time you really understand the effect that, that, you know, technology and cell phones have and just, you know, being outside and having a conversation with someone is so simple, but also like, seem to be hard for people to do it.
• 20:48
  It's really interesting seeing young people.
• 20:51
  Basically rediscovering the power of human to human connection of friendship of, I don't, I don't have to have this device in front of me at all times.
• 21:02
  I don't know if we just can't be in our own heads anymore.
• 21:04
  We just, we, it's the muscle memory of the balance is, is so tough.
• 21:08
  It's just impossible.
• 21:09
  But I'm glad to hear that in that setting in the locker room, that's a place for mental reset from school.
• 21:15
  The pressure's outside, but also the focus factor too.
• 21:18
  Yeah.
• 21:19
  Yeah.
• 21:21
  You created the Shine a Light Foundation around 2017 where you winding down your NHL career around that time.
• 21:30
  Yes.
• 21:31
  What's it like?
• 21:33
  Staring down that reality.
• 21:35
  This was your dream.
• 21:36
  You lived the dream, you grew up watching WCHA, you played for your hometown team.
• 21:43
  You went on to a very successful NHL career.
• 21:47
  It's always challenging to put that into the athlete context.
• 21:50
  'cause in your thirties, you're, you're old, you're, you're ready to retire when you know that contract isn't going to be renewed.
• 22:00
  What's that like?
• 22:02
  Yeah, it's, it's, I mean, thinking back, yeah, it's no fun.
• 22:07
  I feel like not many athletes get the, to finalize their career on a championship in a parade.
• 22:16
  In a very, very few get that, that story, you know, the storybook ending.
• 22:21
  And I think for me, the career was.
• 22:27
  Bitter bittersweet as in far as like you talk about the dream and, and so fortunate to play and, and when you'd separate the business piece and the, uh, the injuries and the, you know, losing in the Stanley Cup finals and getting hurt and not being able to go to the Olympics.
• 22:41
  A lot of things that were really, um, hard for me to handle in the moment because of how much I cared and wanted to have success and, um, and then not be able to get certain things that you, and, and then goes always back to the, the game of hockey and why we play it.
• 22:58
  And to me, still some of the greatest memories were on the pond in Elk River with the neighbor kids, you know?
• 23:04
  that reminds me of why I played in the first place, you know, and, and I wish talking about the seeds that we plant, this is one where I wish I would've understood that going through that process, where I would've been more enjoyable to understanding this is the end and I should really.
• 23:21
  Take each moment and be present with it and appreciate it and do do what I can, you know, what I can control and be great with the young guys, which I was, I, I, you know, I wasn't playing towards the end and a lot of young guys I'd, I'd help out and take a side and, um, but I don't think I was as present and, and enjoyable.
• 23:38
  During those that, that last year or so, you know, and I think losing to, um, the Penguins when I was with the Sharks after I was in, in Pittsburgh for five years, and then losing to my former friends that would, and you don't want to tell people that we've had this conversa, you don't wanna tell people how much it hurts and that you can't handle it.
• 23:56
  And it's, you're sad and, and you're depressed and, and things aren't good because I'm a hockey guy, you know, and I've, I've battled through injuries and broken bones and I'm just supposed to be okay with things and keep going.
• 24:07
  And I think over the course of my career, I had so many of those moments and injuries and surgeries and, or by the end, I was, I was navigating my life with opiates and alcohol and that really numbed me to that feeling of like, I'm not present here.
• 24:22
  And looking back, that was something I wish I would've been able to kind of navigate better.
• 24:27
  Um, and then being able, or then getting bought out at the end of my career with that last year.
• 24:33
  Is that in San Jose?
• 24:34
  Yeah, in San Jose.
• 24:35
  Doug Wilson.
• 24:36
  And, and he, he should have,'cause I wasn't, I wasn't in a great spot and, um, I definitely needed help, but like, that was part of me not being willing to do anything still and retiring and waiting six months even to go seek help, you know?
• 24:50
  So I think the end of my career was so bittersweet too, where I, I just, uh, had to change a lot of how I thought about it.
• 24:59
  Um, the perspective piece and how fortunate I was to play that long and with the people I played with and have that career.
• 25:05
  And also like, I wish I would've done a little better.
• 25:07
  You know, a person's capacity for growth is directly linked to how much truth they can face about themselves without running away.
• 25:22
  Most people don't avoid growth because it's hard.
• 25:24
  They avoid it because it threatens the story they tell themselves.
• 25:28
  Mm.
• 25:30
  You arrived at the end of your career.
• 25:34
  I, it's hard to imagine all of the different factors that were at, at play, alcohol, opiate, little depression.
• 25:41
  Mm-hmm.
• 25:42
  At the time, how were you?
• 25:44
  What do you remember about that?
• 25:47
  yeah, it, it was hard.
• 25:48
  I think I mean, I remember finally being willing to talk to like a therapist or to seek outside help.
• 25:56
  and, you know, they're like, well, you're, you seem to be clinically depressed with everything going on, and I'm, and maybe we should put you on some antidepressants, et cetera.
• 26:05
  And it's like, well, I am still drinking and taking opiates is probably isn't a good, good combination, you know, like, to figure this out.
• 26:12
  And, and I know like going, like going through a program, like I've been sober six and a half years now, and it's like, really teaches me to accept the journey.
• 26:21
  You know, life was always happening, um, for me instead of to me, but in the moment it's really hard and sometimes it's hard to look back and be like, why did I do that?
• 26:30
  Or why would I not have been strong enough or like willing to, to get help to, to be a better player at the end of my career or to be more present or, you know, so even though I've, I've trained myself to understand that that was just part of the journey and the process, and I did learn so much from that, and it had to happen that way, you know, for me to seek the change.
• 26:51
  Um, there's still parts of me that'll argue with that, you know, but it was, it was hard.
• 26:56
  And, and I think just the, the whole, my whole perspective on life and hockey and, and the type of person I was when you, at the time, thinking that was my identity, right?
• 27:06
  Like, if I was not a hockey player, yeah.
• 27:08
  Then what?
• 27:08
  Then who am I?
• 27:09
  Yeah.
• 27:12
  Some of these nuggets of wisdom get dismissed as platitudes.
• 27:16
  That growth doesn't start with motivation.
• 27:18
  It starts with honesty.
• 27:19
  That makes you uncomfortable also.
• 27:21
  Very true.
• 27:24
  It seems like men hear these things and say, oh yeah, they nod an agreement and say that.
• 27:29
  That is, that's a really good point.
• 27:32
  And yet we were having these conversations within our Masonic lodges of brotherhood and friendship and swallow our pride and say, I'm struggling with something.
• 27:45
  I need to talk to someone.
• 27:47
  like we talked about a few moments ago, that fear of what will someone think?
• 27:53
  What if I am vulnerable?
• 27:54
  What if I share something that's troubling me People all around us are trying to navigate the rollercoaster of life by themselves because they just don't know if they can say the hard part out loud to a trusted friend, a confidant.
• 28:14
  This is what the hamster wheel does to me at three in the morning.
• 28:17
  I, I How do we, yeah.
• 28:18
  How do we get beyond that?
• 28:19
  And I, because I, I really appreciate your story.
• 28:23
  You've put yourself out there to say where you were mentally, physically at the time of your career ending, and of course hindsight's 2020, you look back and think, oh, why, how did I do that?
• 28:33
  Why did I cliche or not?
• 28:36
  It is part of the journey.
• 28:39
  for me, yeah, I would, that's one thing if, if I could give myself advice, it would be like, you, I wish you would've asked for help sooner.
• 28:45
  I wish you would've found someone that we talk about that you trusted.
• 28:50
  Because at, at that time, I knew a lot of people that were struggling.
• 28:53
  I knew even teammates or former players, um, that I didn't wanna associate, you know, with, with that, at that I wasn't ready to accept, you know, acceptance is a big part of, of how I've got to, to where I'm at today, you know?
• 29:07
  Um, and the honesty piece.
• 29:09
  And I mean, I remember sitting in Doug Wilson's office and, at the end of one of the seasons, and he knew, like, he knew I was not in a good spot, did he?
• 29:17
  Yeah.
• 29:18
  And based on what JI, I think just, I think my behavior, um, probably people talking to him about me, you know, like, and like, I looked him in the eye and said I was, I was fine.
• 29:29
  You know, I just, stuff going on with the family and step, I gotta step away from the team.
• 29:34
  And, you know, like that's just not being willing to be honest.
• 29:38
  And if I would've at that, he would've been, Hey, I'm here for you.
• 29:42
  Let's get you the help that you need.
• 29:44
  This is what we're gonna do.
• 29:45
  I think just the fear of not being able to navigate life by my, on my own, you know, the ego piece, the control piece.
• 29:51
  But it wasn't truly until I finally surrendered to that, um, to ask for help and seek help that I, I, I, I got it and it was there and available.
• 30:02
  How liberating was that?
• 30:03
  It was extremely liberating.
• 30:05
  Um, you know, I didn't know what it would look like.
• 30:08
  Like I was still scared, but I had a little bit of willingness that I think kind of, um, is so important for change for me.
• 30:17
  It was, um, and it still took a, a while to get fully, uh, accepted and sober and working through a program and doing things.
• 30:25
  But it, it was a start, you know, and people start to kind of come outta the woodwork.
• 30:30
  They'll say, you know, we have a, we've had this chair for you here this whole time.
• 30:33
  We've just been waiting for you to have this conversation.
• 30:36
  You know,'cause they know people can tell friends, family members that are hoping and praying that someday that you do that.
• 30:41
  You know?
• 30:42
  So very fortunate to, um, come in to, to the rooms or to, to those groups or to people without, um, you know, and I've, I've definitely like hurt people or the family member that think about you and love you and then you're not being honest and things like that.
• 30:56
  So I'm very, um, cognizant of that, but just not where, I can still be put back together and go through something and be happy that, uh, I learned so much through it.
• 31:06
  So this is an area of interest to me or to our organization, to Minnesota Freemasons.
• 31:13
  'cause we have been speaking frequently about the challenges of life.
• 31:17
  About what does, What does it mean to.
• 31:21
  Have a friend, a brother.
• 31:24
  Is that just a word we say?
• 31:25
  Is that an abstract well, or a brotherhood, or is that really a 3:00 AM friend?
• 31:31
  Is that really someone that we can have a reciprocal love, trust, and talk about the hard stuff?
• 31:41
  And it's been a recurring theme on this podcast because I'm in contact with so many friends, both within the Masonic fraternity and outside that continually say, fortunately they heard your story.
• 31:56
  They heard Jamie Lang and Brenner's story.
• 32:00
  Now some of that stigma's been taken away a little bit.
• 32:03
  Hey, if you're willing to admit that, if you're willing to put yourself out there and share your journey, well now it doesn't feel quite so scary for me.
• 32:12
  it, it took me a long time to be open, open and willing to share any part of my story because I think the shame and the guilt that goes with our association or stigma of what it means to say like, be an alcoholic or be an addict or an addict to anything.
• 32:28
  Yeah.
• 32:28
  What we look, um, I mean, even now, like we've talked about Sour Patch kids.
• 32:32
  Like I, I, that's, I feel like sugar's my thing.
• 32:35
  I just, I can't stop once I've start, you know, there's always something We talked about cell phones, like Some, you know, like, so for me at that time, it was hard to come out and share.
• 32:44
  but it, it was very freeing when I, when I did, and like you just talked about, so many people kind of came out to say thank you, um, which a lot of people did for me when they'd share their stories.
• 32:54
  It's so powerful.
• 32:55
  The, um, ability to share a story and, and to learn from, and just to be vulnerable.
• 33:00
  I think that's the secret sauce when we.
• 33:03
  Understand that, like, whatever, if we're talking about men, what it means to be a man, to be able to be vulnerable with yourself, um, for the sake of someone else, to kinda let them in and build trust, build a relationship.
• 33:14
  Um, I think that's kind of what the program has allowed me to do.
• 33:18
  you know, to be able to talk to, other humans in a more sincere and generous and appreciative, um, angle with conversations, you know, and we, we talked about this earlier, like I said, like, I'm good, I'm fine.
• 33:32
  Yeah.
• 33:32
  Everything's good even though it's not, but it's the face we wear in public at work, at lodge, everybody's got something.
• 33:40
  Yeah.
• 33:41
  And I know there's a reluctance.
• 33:42
  You don't want to be that guy with bad timing, opens the flood gates to spend a half hour saying of all of the things that are a challenge in life right now.
• 33:50
  There's a little timing and a little self-awareness involved in this as well.
• 33:56
  Life's too short to go it alone.
• 34:00
  And that's, I know that's a generational thing too.
• 34:02
  You and I are a little bit apart in age, but we both have parents, grandparents that were, and especially as a hockey player, professional, NHL player, play through the pain.
• 34:11
  Mm-hmm.
• 34:12
  There's no room to say, shake it off.
• 34:14
  Yeah, shake it off.
• 34:15
  There's no room to say that I'm mentally fragile.
• 34:18
  I'm really struggling with X, Y, z.
• 34:21
  Right.
• 34:21
  Now, what who else comes to mind as someone that hearing their story, seeing or hearing their vulnerability influenced you to say, Hey, you know what, I, I think that I can open that door.
• 34:39
  Yeah.
• 34:40
  for me, I, I, in the hockey world, like when, when I left California after I, I got sober out there.
• 34:47
  through COVID, which to me was the, I was fortunate where not, not many people were doing anything.
• 34:52
  So I was able to, you know, meetings.
• 34:54
  We had a surfing group and a boxing group, and so many cool things happened to me through, through COVID back to school.
• 35:00
  Um, despite, you know, everything that was going on in the world.
• 35:04
  And then coming back here, we had started a, a group for NHL Guys, hockey guys.
• 35:09
  Um, and a lot of guys would come on and it was kind of cool just to start something and see it grow.
• 35:15
  And now we have, you know, 50, 60 guys, um, that come in and out.
• 35:19
  Some form some former players, some that still play coaches, general managers, all kinds of, of guys that come into the rooms, you know, and we talked about like the common ground of, of going through something together, in this case sports.
• 35:31
  And so.
• 35:32
  I heard like Tannic, k Dan will say his name.
• 35:35
  He just, yeah.
• 35:36
  You know, came on and did the, um, the wild recovery night and I had heard his story before'cause he'd do it in the rooms and you'd start to see guys that were prominent figures and calling hockey games or on the bench or in community and, open and honest and vulnerable about their experience.
• 35:52
  And so that was very inspiring to me to feel like I, you know, I'm not alone.
• 35:56
  And, and there's a lot of guys that have had a lot of success, that are willing to be vulnerable.
• 36:02
  And I mean, that happened even in California, like a lot of people, there was still shame with, you know, being an addict, being an alcoholic.
• 36:09
  And, and now I am, I am.
• 36:13
  Playing hockey, like who am I?
• 36:14
  But seeing a lot of prominent people in business and health and that, that are sober and choosing to be sober and helping others.
• 36:20
  And I think that was the secret sauce, seeing other people give away what they had.
• 36:25
  Um, for me being like, well, it's, you know, it's my turn and I need to be able to be someone that steps up and hopefully something that I say can help one person or can help a group of people, um, you know, kind of step forward or at least maybe look in the mirror and say, you know what?
• 36:38
  I, I wanna do something.
• 36:39
  I wanna be healthier.
• 36:40
  I wanna change my lifestyle.
• 36:41
  I wanna help somebody else.
• 36:42
  I wanna help myself.
• 36:43
  So it feels like a contradiction that you're giving up something to get something so much more gratifying, healthy, happy.
• 36:57
  Does it ever feel like the solutions we're seeking in our lives, if they don't seem complicated enough, we don't give them the attention they deserve?
• 37:05
  Are we, are we constantly looking for that optimization, a solution that's complex?
• 37:11
  Because it seems like simplicity, it, it takes a long time to figure out that it's really not that complicated.
• 37:17
  Mm-hmm.
• 37:18
  yes, I think there's for sure layers.
• 37:21
  Like, it's weird because for me, I had, it was very simple, but I had to get out of my comfort zone a lot and be willing to do things I said I wouldn't do as far as like, well, I don't, I don't need to do outpatient.
• 37:35
  I don't need to do a sober living.
• 37:36
  I don't need to, um, go to meetings.
• 37:39
  I don't, I don't need to do, I don't want, I don't want want to or need to do this stuff, you know?
• 37:44
  but when I did, I realized how impactful it was for me and how much I needed it and how good it was for me.
• 37:53
  Then in those lessons or when I, the simplicity came out as far as, you know, what we talk about, um, you know, being open and honest.
• 38:01
  the acceptance piece.
• 38:03
  Um, and, and then it goes into like the rest of your, your lifestyle, right?
• 38:07
  Like where it's like, am I, if I wasn't sleeping well, I wasn't eating well, I wasn't, um, you know, navigating my relationship.
• 38:15
  So many things that are not that extremely difficult.
• 38:18
  They take a little bit of time and willingness, but um, in there, the simplicity of just, having a good meal, getting some sleep, exercising For me, I didn't do anything for almost a year after I got so, or was when I was drinking after I retired and then started to work out again.
• 38:34
  I'm, oh my God, like it was a cloud lifted, like for my mental mindset and lifting weights and um, biking, whatever I was doing.
• 38:41
  Like, it was huge for me and I wasn't doing that before, you know, so it makes sense to want to.
• 38:47
  Stay outta the weight room for a little bit after you've been two weeks.
• 38:50
  I'm not, I'm gonna clarify.
• 38:50
  I'm not lifting heavy weight, anything near what I used to be doing, you know?
• 38:53
  But yeah, like it's all about smaller weight and higher reps now at this age, right?
• 38:58
  Mm-hmm.
• 38:59
  But even like when I was in California, I was introduced to Richard Burr, um, who worked at the facility and, and, uh, he was kind of like a spiritual guide and we'd sit down and he would read.
• 39:09
  it started as once a week and I lo loved him so much.
• 39:12
  I'm like, can we do this more than once?
• 39:13
  He, he'd kind of lay out a, a reading from a spiritual guide or a guru and of all different religions and nationalities and, and it would have a lesson in it.
• 39:22
  And then we'd sit down and we'd meditate and started at a minute, and then it would go into three minutes.
• 39:28
  And by the end it was like 20 minutes.
• 39:30
  And while I was on my own,'cause he's like, now we're gonna cut into too much time, but we'll read.
• 39:34
  And then you kind of can go.
• 39:35
  And, and meditation was something I didn't understand.
• 39:38
  I didn't know what it meant and I didn't think it would be something that would be.
• 39:43
  Have an impact on me.
• 39:44
  And over the course of a year and the readings, um, really opened a different perspective in me.
• 39:51
  which to sit there and not do anything was very contradictory to like, who, who I wa you know?
• 39:59
  Like, I, I need to be doing something.
• 40:00
  I need to be going somewhere.
• 40:02
  Like something needs to be productive.
• 40:03
  And that was one of the hardest things I think.
• 40:05
  I don't, I can't, I'm gonna blaze, Pascal said the hardest thing for men to do, sit alone in a room with their thoughts.
• 40:13
  And that was so true for me.
• 40:15
  'cause I was like, oh man, I, yeah, okay.
• 40:18
  And he helped me understand like, all these thoughts were just clouds, you know, passing in the sky and you just had to let'em go.
• 40:25
  They didn't mean anything unless I attached to them and, you know, brought'em in closer, like just let'em go.
• 40:30
  And, and granted I'm not perfect.
• 40:33
  I get, I, I still streaky, but like.
• 40:36
  It's been great in, in me being able to be more present with.
• 40:39
  People and in my, in my mood during the day and, and how simple it is just to sit there, you know, and breathe focus on my breathing chair.
• 40:47
  How, how is that?
• 40:48
  Is it, I feel like I would daydream immediately or I'd lose focus or it would, did you just have to ease your way in?
• 40:54
  I do all the time.
• 40:55
  Like, it's like, it's kind of like he taught me kind of to laugh at a little bit where it's like something comes, pops into my head, I'm like, oh.
• 41:02
  Yeah, that makes sense.
• 41:03
  And you kind of let it go, you know, back into the breath to be present again.
• 41:06
  And, and I think that that's the, the beauty of it.
• 41:08
  Like you can't, perfection is unattainable.
• 41:11
  It's just something that you're able to do and, and start the day off that way.
• 41:14
  And with some prayer and some meditation and, um, you know, hit the knees and be thankful.
• 41:19
  And gratitude.
• 41:19
  Yeah, gratitude was, is so, like, so this the simple things like you talked about, I think I'm on the right track.
• 41:24
  I don't know if you're gonna tell me like, no, that's not what I'm talking about, Paul.
• 41:27
  No, I, it's not what I meant at all.
• 41:28
  No, absolutely not at all.
• 41:30
  Um, you know, uh, just the simple things, the tools that I've found that have been really beneficial, that don't take a lot, a lot of fancy bells and whistles.
• 41:39
  Yeah.
• 41:43
  Speaking of uncomplicated, extraordinary results are a matter of repeating ordinary actions over a long period of time.
• 41:51
  Start with ordinary, I dunno if you follow Mark Manson, but I, I really like a lot of his little.
• 41:57
  Pieces of wisdom like that.
• 41:59
  The quote you mentioned reminded me of David Foster Wallace, if you're immune to boredom, there is literally nothing you cannot accomplish.
• 42:08
  It is the key to modern life.
• 42:10
  I love that.
• 42:11
  That that's, that's it.
• 42:13
  Mm-hmm.
• 42:14
  I, I think, and that's some of that is in the perspective, I suppose, the wording where you think of, I had to change the relationship between loneliness to solitude.
• 42:24
  You know, like this is something that you can practice and appreciate and understand.
• 42:28
  You're getting something from, instead of realizing like, you know, no one loves me or loser, whatever thoughts go into my head.
• 42:35
  Right?
• 42:35
  Like, career's over my something's changed my relationship from Mm-hmm.
• 42:41
  And that was so beneficial to kind of.
• 42:45
  See that switch or change like over time to now, I'm perfectly comfortable being alone, you know?
• 42:50
  Right.
• 42:50
  Mm-hmm.
• 42:50
  Like, I, I, I seek out company'cause I enjoy conversations and being around people, but like I, I feel like I'm a socially capable introvert where I need, I need to recharge, you know, or I need to have, have my time.
• 43:02
  But I do love being around people and energy and, and, and the right people.
• 43:06
  And, um, you know, mark, I love Mark Manson.
• 43:08
  The books that he, they've been huge.
• 43:10
  Good.
• 43:10
  Just the, you know, like about not caring a much about certain things Yes.
• 43:14
  And finding what you do care about, you know, and yeah.
• 43:17
  That reminds me of too, like the chop wood carry water.
• 43:19
  I've, I love that book.
• 43:21
  And that's kind of like the same thing.
• 43:22
  It's like, um, I don't know who it was, if it's Ramdass or it, it was more like, like after, um, enlightenment, do the laundry or something, or do the dishes where it's like, it's like, uh, you know, in the mundane we always come back to like the, the mundane thing of life and what we're doing and the chores.
• 43:40
  And it's kind of like learning to appreciate.
• 43:42
  Back to what you had said, the simple things, you know, what we're doing in our everyday life.
• 43:46
  The relationships and the people, and the, the laundry or the dishes, or get good at boring.
• 43:53
  I think he said that too.
• 43:54
  That could be, yeah.
• 43:55
  Yeah.
• 43:57
  and this may all go back to the inability to be alone in our heads.
• 44:02
  sometimes it requires leaving that phone in a different room, unplugging from that being alone in our thoughts.
• 44:10
  As I get older, I just feel like this whole new world of discovery, of perspectives and ways to feel more fulfilled, but in a simple way The human connection, the friendships, the sharing of perspectives.
• 44:28
  it's an amazing journey.
• 44:29
  Mm-hmm.
• 44:30
  I, it, it is.
• 44:31
  I feel like, and that's the perspective piece.
• 44:34
  And I don't know, I, they, well, I say they, like, I don't know who they are when they, they do studies.
• 44:40
  I do this when they talk about, um, you know, say the, the elderly or when they ask'em questions about, you know, what do you appreciate about life?
• 44:48
  Or what are lessons that you wish that you could pass along or what are, no one ever says, I wish I, you know, had, you know, more money, or, I wish I would've achieved this thing.
• 44:58
  It's always like, I wish I had more time with, you know, my grandpa, or I wish I had more time with family members or loved ones, and I, I'm gonna miss the relationships.
• 45:06
  And, and that's what the, you know, and I think that's how, how much more of a study do you need to do than, than that When it's like the most honest and vulnerable you can be at the end of a life to say, you know what?
• 45:17
  I wish I had more time with the people I loved.
• 45:21
  What would you tell your 25-year-old self?
• 45:25
  I think it would be something along those lines.
• 45:27
  I think it would be, um, to make sure you're spending time with the ones that, that you love, you know, and that you care about and, and be present and, and be, yeah, be there with those ones.
• 45:45
  The golden years are now, we'll look back on a memory and realize that we didn't appreciate that moment.
• 45:55
  It was just another day.
• 46:00
  What is difficult for you?
• 46:02
  That seems easy for everyone else.
• 46:08
  I was gonna say life, but that sounds bad.
• 46:12
  As in like, I, we talked about this earlier, like I, I was really good at, I feel like hockey or some things that I spent a lot of time with, you know, and, and with everything else I feel like, which is also a blessing.
• 46:23
  I feel like a lot to learn.
• 46:27
  What's your most irrational preference or opinion?
• 46:32
  Hmm.
• 46:34
  That's a tough one.
• 46:35
  Irrational preference or opinion?
• 46:41
  I'm gonna get in if I, I'm a music guy.
• 46:43
  Okay.
• 46:44
  So I, I'd be like, I'm not a Taylor Swift fan.
• 46:48
  You're in good company.
• 46:50
  Yeah.
• 46:50
  If I would say like, I don't think she's a good musician.
• 46:52
  Like, I'm gonna, we're gonna get in trouble.
• 46:53
  We're gonna get like, ha Mill from the swifties.
• 46:55
  Is there a security detail from the gophers?
• 46:58
  We can, yeah.
• 46:59
  I, yeah.
• 47:00
  This is, yeah, random.
• 47:01
  I don't know why I said that, but that would be something I usually am somewhat rational, but yeah.
• 47:06
  Musical tastes, I suppose that can be subjective.
• 47:08
  So it's Who's, who's your favorite classic rock artist?
• 47:11
  I just, I, I mean, I'm right in the, the Zeppelin stones.
• 47:14
  I did love The Beatles, you know, but a little more of a rocker.
• 47:19
  I think.
• 47:19
  You know the, to get the let out.
• 47:23
  You mentioned your Sour Patch kids earlier.
• 47:26
  what do you treat yourself to now that you could not as a kid?
• 47:30
  Hmm.
• 47:32
  good question.
• 47:32
  I, I feel like that would be it.
• 47:35
  Like the sweets and the show, we didn't get like soda or we didn't, I mean, I'm older now, so I'm a little better with what I, um, but yeah, like I definitely have a sweet tooth.
• 47:43
  So it's more of the sweets and sugar Yeah.
• 47:46
  That I need to keep an eye out for.
• 47:50
  It's tough when the metabolism starts to get slow.
• 47:52
  Yes.
• 47:53
  That was one of the hardest things being done playing when I'd love, you know, the chicken and the pasta.
• 47:58
  And then when you're not burning the same mo of calories, you can't have the same kind of food.
• 48:01
  Oh, that's, I seriously, that adjustment must have been, yeah.
• 48:07
  The card says, describe the most annoying neighbor you've ever had, but I'm gonna change that.
• 48:13
  Describe the most annoying teammate you've ever had.
• 48:17
  Oh man.
• 48:18
  You know, the good thing about, I feel like my career, my journey, Edith, is there's so many good guys in hockey and, uh, there's always a couple guys on a team maybe you don't spend as much time with.
• 48:30
  And I guess I wouldn't say is it as annoying, but, for a partial time, my roommate was, um, oh shoot, I just, we just call him boots and he would be roommates and he just would walk around naked in the room the whole time and he'd go and he'd put his legs up on the wall to get like the blood flow so his legs wouldn't.
• 48:50
  It's like a way of resting your legs, you know?
• 48:52
  And I'd be like, can you please put with nothing?
• 48:54
  A yeah.
• 48:55
  And a towel.
• 48:55
  And Russians are like, you don't, it's a different language and a different, like, come on.
• 48:59
  Finally I had to talk to the, um, translator or the coach be like, okay, we'll, we'll separate you guys, or whatever.
• 49:06
  But I didn't have too many annoying, um, I, maybe I was annoying one than if I can't think of anybody.
• 49:13
  Did you get, did you get paired up though, like hotel when you were on the road for the, the pregame, the afternoon nap?
• 49:18
  Was it, were you dealing with noisy?
• 49:20
  Used to be a, um, a roommate back then when I played, no matter how many games you played until it's changed now after you play a certain amount of games.
• 49:30
  And I'd have a guy, guys that would turn the lights out at like eight 30 and go to bed and I'd be coming in af like as far as a college guy, like, I can't go to bed at nine o'clock.
• 49:40
  And then I'd had a, a dungeon and dragon roommate that had the headphones in and would just be calling out over the headset like all night.
• 49:48
  So it was like a weird, you know, like, so there's always those quirky, like the intricacies of people's personalities that, you know, but when it came to stepping on the ice with guy, like your teammate, you know?
• 50:00
  Yeah.
• 50:00
  So it's like you appreciate, like, nobody was ever, I feel like, uh, annoying or like intentionally hurtful, but it was always just appreciating the differences of everyone where they came from.
• 50:09
  But yeah, once you step on the ice, it was a lot of fun.
• 50:15
  What's a piece of advice you received from a coach, whether it was about life, about the game that's still with you today?
• 50:22
  Move your feet.
• 50:23
  Yeah.
• 50:25
  No, I, yeah, I think, um, speed kills, right?
• 50:28
  Yeah.
• 50:29
  Yeah.
• 50:29
  I didn't have much skill, uh, skill or a hard shot.
• 50:32
  I remember.
• 50:33
  Jock LaPierre, I'd always come off after I shoot and he'd, make fun of my shot or whatever.
• 50:38
  And, but then he'd stay out after practice and we'd work on it.
• 50:41
  So he was, he was always generous that way.
• 50:43
  But, yeah, I mean, I, I think that just as far as keep going, I think like as move your feet, nothing good happens when you stand still, which is kind of a metaphor for, finding things to, to do, especially when you're done.
• 50:59
  Where can people find you?
• 51:01
  Shine a light.
• 51:02
  Yep.
• 51:02
  Shine a light.org.
• 51:04
  T in light is a seven.
• 51:05
  That was the number that I had.
• 51:07
  Yep.
• 51:08
  we usually have, um, an event in August, Senator on Music.
• 51:11
  Last year it was at the, the Green Room and we had Pert near Sandstone and some others play and, and we usually have some local Minnesota musicians play and then some, some youth perform that have been through, um.
• 51:24
  Either Masonic, uh, and, uh, HCMC.
• 51:26
  They kind of talk a little bit about music and how, you know, music is medicine, what it meant in their lives, and play a song or two.
• 51:32
  And so it's, it's, uh, you'll see that coming out on, on our socials and stuff like that, probably sometime soon.
• 51:40
  Paul.
• 51:40
  Martin, it's been a pleasure.
• 51:42
  I, we could talk college hockey stories for hours and hours.
• 51:44
  As a fan, I have so many more questions, but I hope to see you again sometime.
• 51:49
  I appreciate it, Reed.
• 51:50
  Thanks for having me.
• 51:50
  I.