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What I've Learnt - Spring Series Gems (October) · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, welcome to the Weather Flight Podcast.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Luke, one of the producers of the show.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: As a producer, I love my work and helping Deborah and our team share so many wonderful stories.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: From food to fashion and art to music, we've got you covered.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: In this episode, we'll be looking at the best moments from this past October.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: So sit back and enjoy.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_04: Peter's CI Brunswick Fund, of which he is still charged with managing directly, has returned investors an annualised gain of 16.79% since its inception in 2004.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_04: However, Peter's influence across the Australian investing landscape is much greater than the single performance of any of the Cooper Investors' funds.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_04: Countless successful fund managers have cut their teeth learning how to invest the Cooper's way before going on to start high-performing funds of their own, speaking volumes about the culture that Peter and his team have been able to create.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_04: Well, it's fair to say that Peter Cooper is not your ordinary stock picker.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_04: The Daily Meditator Yoga Devotee has almost single-handedly built a$10 billion investment powerhouse with little of the fuss and none of the media profile that comes with the territory.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_04: But it's on his own personal journey of life balance, wellness and connection that he met his wife Sipana Basim Cooper.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_04: Sipana is a force of nature, dedicated to wellness at every level, facilitating silent retreats both in Byron Bay and India.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_04: She's spearheading the new Be Well community in Melbourne, a hub of wellness warriors determined to give back and honour self-care.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_04: An inspirational speaker, philanthropist, and longtime meditator, her goal is to bring ancient Vedic practices such as meditation, breath work, and yoga to different communities around the globe.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_04: In 2018, Sipana made the decision to dedicate her time and resources to making a meaningful impact and creating lasting change through her charitable activities.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_04: So, Peter and Sipana, welcome to the What I've Learned podcast.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Dana.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_04: Now I'm going to start with you, Peter.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_04: You've worked very hard and have a very strong work ethic.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_04: You've been very successful.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_04: But tell us about your personal journey to self-care alongside your strong work ethic.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: The who am I purpose of life question?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a bit strange and odd.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of came from an ordinary kind of uh Catholic uh school schoolyard in the Gold Coast, on the Gold Coast.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: And ever since that that time, I I would describe myself as a seeker and learner around uh life's philosophies, how to how to be a better person, how to you know how to have the good life.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I hadn't actually heard of Plato at that stage.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um actually um made up that that phrase.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so that journey, I guess, you know, has been very linear from book to book to book.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Did a whole bunch of personal uh growth programs and um speakers and so forth over the journey, and I guess have landed in the community of art of living where I've spent you know the last uh eight, eight, nine years in that community, um, really immersing myself in the various kind of spiritual and philosophical practices.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: But along along the way, it's just been a parallel, I guess, with my work and family, which is a big, big part of my life.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's been, I guess, the the safety net or the guide rails kind of got me through some pretty challenging times.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, it's definitely been a journey of discovery and self self-learning.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_04: And Supana, I know that you've played quite a role in that for Peter, but as he mentioned, he obviously has an awareness and began that sort of seeking and learning alongside building his very successful business.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_04: Tell me a little bit about you and your background and what took you down the path of wellness.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and thanks, Deb, again for having us.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so my journey really began in my 20s in a couple of different ways.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Very early on, I sort of realized that my parents fought for survival.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: They were immigrants from um India, so that my brother and I could go beyond that.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: So, even at a young age in my 20s, I was always a seeker of passion and purpose.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think the big um kind of event, for lack of a better word, was in my mid-20s, um, I had I had a severe breakdown.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that really triggered me on how how do I not only stay out of depression, but how do I thrive?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do I actually have a great life?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that journey also for me, because I was also a natural seeker as well, started in my mid-20s.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Also, like Peter, reading books, going to workshops.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: We actually met at a personal development workshop in 2001.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, really interesting place where they had an autistic child and they healed that child out of autism.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: So that's actually interesting about our relationship.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: And as I fast-forwarded through that, so many speakers, um, so many workshops, landmark education, Deepak Chopra, Marion Williamson, like you name it.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'd been to all of these, Brian Weiss at Omega and some American.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it was also when I found the Art of Living in 2010 that that I realized that this is home for me.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting because the teacher that Peter and I had in 2001 at this place called the Option Institute with the Autistic Sun that ultimately came out of autism and is fully high functioning, he said to us, don't be a seeker, be a finder.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: If you find something that resonates, go deep.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, I had never found that into the art of living.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: I was always jumping around from teacher to teacher to workshop to workshop.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: But when I found the art of living in 2010, then that was it for me.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: I actually didn't feel I needed anything else.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: And Peter and I had reconnected as just as friends at that point.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then he came on this journey with me.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: We went into a silence course together.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we went, you know, all kinds of things, meditation, breath work, silence, chanting, etc.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then after that, later, we fell in love.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but it was a point of connection for us, working on ourselves.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I think I can see that, you know, as I mentioned, not only in the wedding, but obviously I've known you both for quite a while.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_04: And and I think the interesting notion of being a seeker and a finder and being willing, there's a lot of courage and bravery that you need in order to do this.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_04: Like, for example, Peter, for you, you know, you came to this later in life, even though you've been seeking for a long time.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_04: For you, how would you describe happiness?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_04: And is happiness something that is actually something we should all strive for?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_04: Or do you think that that is a little bit of a misnomer and it can it can blur the the issue?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_04: Because is it about just having the tools that we need to cope when things don't go the way we that we planned?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Deb, I think it's a huge topic.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I I I think um I mean the word happiness now kind of to me is a kind of popular term.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: It uh often describes a very kind of egotistical individual central view around making me, me, me um happy, if you like.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so I guess whenever I see the word happiness, I I kind of avoid it for that reason because that's not the purpose of life.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: And there's in um I think it's Greek philosophy, and there's this idea of eudaimonia, uh, which is really seeking, you know, you achieve happiness through responsibility and purpose, um, which is a slightly different context around the notion of happiness.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I really kind of lock locked in on that.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: One thing I do love about art of living, um, there's this term bhakti, and uh Saphana can correct me, the Sanskrit meaning of the word bhakti is around joy joyfulness, um, and it's a but it's a very natural concept within the community around I guess uh music and chanting and um through giving giving back to society, it's kind of feels very very natural um and not a self-gratifying pursuit in in itself.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, happiness is you know very much built around I guess community, starting with you know immediate family and then expanding out out from there, and you know, being um somebody and this comes under having a responsibility that you know others others can rely upon and where I can give you know hand up, not just just monetary hand up, but being really you know supportive of the different communities that I I connect with, and that's really where I get the most joy.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: And uh the last thing I'll say about happiness, but one thing I have learned over the uh podcast is about uh life experiences really is this idea of happiness is very much in the mind.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't want to belittle people in you know any terrible economic suffering or or so forth, but you know, it really is um so often in my life, you know, sort of pursuit of going somewhere or you know, hanging out with somebody that to make make me happy, and of course, you take your unhappiness with you.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: So um I have a little, you know, as as you may know, we we like to holiday up in Byron Bay.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I've got this little kind of philosophy every time I'm having a bad day, I just do Byron Bay in the mind, you know.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_04: And I love that.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_04: I love it, I love it.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's very true though.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_04: I think what you know, and and actually my father, who's a psychiatrist, has a very similar philosophy.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_04: He always says, Well, you take yourself with you.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_04: So I mean it's interesting that you say that, Peter.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_04: And I I think that's something that what you're saying is you really need to develop a lens wherever you are to help you see things differently and to and to not let that sadness, which some of which, let's all be honest, which you know, you and I have talked about, Safana, some of it's normal and it's part of life.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_04: And and so I think that's a really interesting reflection.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_04: And just briefly talk to me about you're about to go, you are actually about to go somewhere that is part of seeking and and taking yourself out of your comfort zone, which I know that you're quite good at, Peter.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I have a very good friend who's um was my my best friend from school, he's a Jewish fellow in a Catholic school, which uh in itself is a bit ironic.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but Peter uh my my friend um Peter Barry is doing a uh five-week walk on the Camino Trail, which is uh one of the big three pilgrimages that uh Christians do.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: It starts in France and ends in in uh northern Spain.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: He's taking five weeks, so I'm just gonna drop in on him for five days of the walk.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I was actually talking to him last night.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: He set off on on the walk.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: So very much looking forward to that pilgrimage, and um hope it doesn't end like St.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: James, the guy though celebrating, who was beheaded in in Jerusalem, and I'm not quite sure who by.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_04: But uh yeah, well, I'm I'm really, really hoping that doesn't happen.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_04: And Sapana, I'm sure you're hoping that doesn't happen either, and that he treads carefully.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um Sapana, and for you, um, I mean, you and Peter are a dynamic duo, but as you said, you've been on your own individual pathways of seeking, but together you have a very strong alignment, and a lot of that is about giving back, listening, and being part of a community.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_04: Can you talk to me about how that, you know, you've come a long way since the, you know, you refer to it as a breakdown, but in some ways, sometimes the breakdown is the gateway pushing through to get to that next stage.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_04: Tell me a little bit about that from your perspective.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I'll I'll share a couple of things on that.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great question.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: It is true that that breakdown, had it never happened, I don't, I would have never met Peter because that breakdown is what sent me to the place that we met.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but Deb, it's it's a great question because you asked it in the beginning about community.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: So um that's actually crucial.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: So there was there was actually a study done, uh kind of the research of happiness, and they named three things that help you raise your happiness, happiness quotient.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: One is personal development, actually doing work on yourself.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: One is giving back, being of service, that if you're uh helping someone else, you're less in your own misery.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Our teacher, Gurdav Shri Shri Ravishankar, says that he says, if you're feeling, if you're feeling low, do sadna, do personal development, do spiritual care, meditation, breath work, yoga.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're feeling strong, do seva, and that is actually what will build your resilience.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the third thing that this scientific sort of film called the happy film or happiness or something is community, that the third piece of it is community, and that if you are in a like-minded, healthy, conscious community, which is what Peter and I have created, then that becomes your saving grace.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I will confess something.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: When I first came to Australia in 2015, I had built such a big community through a women's empowerment business in New York.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'd built my art of living community, I had my friends there.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: So when I came here, I didn't know that many people.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: I had been introduced to a handful of friends.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but one of the dreams that Peter had for both of us is that when you come to Melbourne, we should open a center and we should build a community and share knowledge and spread knowledge.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: And because I have found dev, when I'm sharing it with others is when I feel the most fulfilled.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: So that that sharing is an outpouring of what's full in my heart, and then building that community around me, which you're a part of, and that you came to India and you met so many of our people.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: We had 65 international guests that came from around the world, from Canada, US, UK, Australia, India, like all over the world.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so one of the initiatives that Peter and I have taken up now is, and I'm there right now, is a wellness center called Be Well in Hawthorne.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: And what's exciting about it is two things.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: One, inside of Be Well, it's like a 500 square meter space, is a hundred square meter yoga room, which we're kind of turning into an informal art of living center.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we just hosted a night call called Setsung, which means in the company of truth.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: We did that on Friday.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: We did our breathing session.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: We're this weekend, they're actually doing a non-residential silence course.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: But what's exciting to me is we're actually having a physical space now to build this community, to bring people together.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that is how I'm the most fulfilled.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: When I'm sharing and giving back is when I feel the most alive.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: And what's exciting about this center, it's kind of more than we bargained for because we only ever wanted, you know, a building with the space to host retreat, um host courses.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: But this place has everything.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: It has um exercise equipment, it has um Pilates, it has yoga, it has a hyperbaric chamber, infrared sauna.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: We're putting in a hot cold plunge pool.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's all the self-care stuff that Peter and I are so passionate about.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it's the dance of all of those, and and a physical space that allows us to do our own self-care but give back to others as well.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_04: Well, it's very timely that I'm interviewing Natasia Nicolao, founder and director of Conserving Beauty, Australia's first waterless beauty brand, Conserving Beauty took out the top honour at the ninth annual Australian Women's Weekly Women of the Future Awards, presented yesterday at a lunch ceremony at 12 Micronimperate Bangaro.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_04: The six Women of the Future finalists, aged between 18 and 34, were celebrated for their exceptional innovation, creativity, and business now.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_04: Well, if you've ever thought about the daily use of makeup wipes, something I use regularly, and their impact on the environment, then get ready.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_04: Each wipe takes a hundred years to dissolve in landfill.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_04: That alone is enough to inspire groundbreaking science-based wellness guru Natasia, who founded Conserving Beauty, Australia's first water-responsible beauty brand, in 2021.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_04: Inspired by her belief that waterless formulas could offer more, both of us and the planet, Natasia set out to create a range of pure, potent beauty products that were completely free from water to boost efficacy, protect our planet, and positively impact the community.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_04: With a background in science and a passion for social justice, conserving beauty allowed Nastasia to merge her long-term love for beauty products with her unique commercial experience.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_04: Talk to me a little bit about how do you maintain, because obviously people are not going to buy products unless they work or they feel good with them.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_05: For sure.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_04: So how did you find that balance and how does it feel so incredibly hydrating when there's a reduction in water in there?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: There's a few things there, and I laugh at you, like it's multi-laid.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I think you're right in saying that people are going to buy products unless they're good.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's a given.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: I also think if you're putting a product out there, like of course they should be good.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: Like that should just be.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: And if they're mega, right?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_03: They have to, you know.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, that's funny because we talk about impact and sustainability.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of people be like, you don't talk about the benefits enough.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, but what do you mean?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: Of course it's good.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: Why would we sell a product if it wasn't?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: Makes me laugh.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, so we use anhydrous, so without water ingredients that are mostly oil-based at the moment.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: And we've got a few other whipped um butters and plant extracts and things.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_03: But the hydration in your skin doesn't necessarily just come from water because our skin is also made up of our own natural oils.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: And oil loves oil, if you think, if you remember back in U10 chemistry.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah, we infuse our wipes and our sheet masks and all our dissolvable products with eight or less ingredients that are all oil-based.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_03: So they're super soothing, nourishing, hydrating.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I guess using our wipes, and you probably felt it, and you can tell me what you think actually.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's a completely different experience because normal wake up wipes, um, they're like mostly water and alcohol, and you kind of have to use three or four to get all your makeup off, and they feel like quite wet, watery.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas ours, because they're oil-based, they kind of work like an oil-based cleanser.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_03: So they legitimately take everything off, and you only need the one, and then you can kind of like rub in any excess residue to really remove your makeup.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_03: So you're getting like a proper cleanse, like a proper um deep exfoliating kind of thing as well, because our fabric slightly textured.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_03: And so, yeah, it's definitely a different experience.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I would say using our whack.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love it.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and yeah, but I think so.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_04: You've got so you're providing a good product, but then on top of that, as you've mentioned as a priority, there's a sustainability aspect is quite critical.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm just surprised that nobody has really, I mean, you've really tapped into something that that I hope starts to infiltrate the rest of the beauty sector because it is so monolithic and it's so, you know, um, when I think about the, as you just said in the in the beginning, how many different products are damaging our planet and our environment that are used in the and look, think how many, like all the plastic, all the mascaras, everything.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_04: So, do you think this is the beginning?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_04: And have you found have you found other like-minded souls along your journey?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think everybody, it's it's on everybody's radar, like how they can reduce their environmental impact of a beauty product for sure.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_03: I think um every big conglomerate or beauty brand, they've got it on their radar or they've got a 30-year plan to try and get to you know net zero, whatever it might be.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think as a startup that's rooted in impact and that we only lead with purpose-based decisions, it's probably easier for us to build a product from inception to make sure it actually is um legitimately good for the planet.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_03: But I also think having a supply chain background really helped.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas uh I'm not sure if you know this there, but like a lot of a lot of products or a lot of brands don't necessarily have the deep knowledge in their supply chain because they partner up with contract manufacturers because we need them, and so do we.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_03: We need them to make our products.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_03: But they hold kind of the keys to the kingdom of all the answers between where they source their ingredients from, where everything comes from, how it's delivered, what the waste footprint was.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so us being able to partner directly with ingredient suppliers and actually work from um ground up right through to when it gets to be manufactured in Melbourne, Australia, really helps us track and measure our exact impact, whether that be water, carbon, or waste.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: So I think, yeah, I think that's one part, but I also think everybody is caring and everybody is going to do a great job over the next five to 10 years to try and come up with innovative solutions.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: But if we can be at the forefront of that and try and help inspire others to think about things that they might not necessarily have thought about, whether that be coming up with a dissolvable fabric technology or reducing their water footprint, then amazing.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: Would love to help any other brand that would want to even ask questions or learn more or be part of it.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's really cool.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I like the collegiate approach because I think that you can really, as you say, the impact on the industry, that's why you're at the forefront.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_04: And you're a little bit of a trailblazer.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you are.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_04: And also the way that you engage, like as you know, I met you recently somewhere where I just was like, this woman is leading a global revolution.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: Because you're true.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_04: So don't go right.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_04: But you know, we talked about how you're launching the UK.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_04: Do you want to talk to me a bit about that?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_04: Obviously, you're in, which is very impressive because they don't take on a brand unless it's particularly, you know, it meets a lot of criteria.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_04: And tell me a little bit about the UK because that's the beginning of your global stepping stone.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_04: I'm assuming that's the first.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_03: It is the first of many steps.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: That is what I would say.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um West Stokes.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, so we launched end of last year direct to consumer.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: So it would have been late November, basically December.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: So we haven't even been around for a year.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's been, you know, 10, 11 months.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: And so when we launched in Mecca in May as their first ever kind of startup, that was quite profound.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_03: We really saw it have a huge impact and resonated.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: And that kind of also helped put us on the global map because Mecca are quite a global business, even though they're here in Australia.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_03: And so I would I'd met a founder of a beauty brand, um, sorry, a beauty business in the UK at the start of the year, called Cult Beauty.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: They're awesome, met the team.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I kind of fell in love with them because they had partnered up with a company called Provenance.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know if you've heard of them before.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: You might not have them.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: Most people have it.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and they are basically like a tech startup in the UK that validates sustainability claims.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: So that their whole thing is they're trying to link any sustainability claim a beauty brand makes with evidence so that they're factual and they're accurate and um efficacy, yeah, creates credibility, and customers can can shot with their values and feel quite confident and happy.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I was like, wow, how cool that a retailer's partnering up with them and they're really leading the forefront.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: I want to be part of that.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_03: It makes complete sense for our business.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_03: And so we launched with Cult Beauty last week.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, about a week ago.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_03: So exciting.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: Thrilled, thrilled.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and we're launching with another five retailers from February onwards.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: Isn't that crazy?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_04: It is crazy, and you're not even barely a year in.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_04: So that shows, but I think it's because it resonates, as you say.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_04: I also think that you're, you know, and we talk about women in science, of which I'm a big fan, but I think that you have a very um deep understanding of what you're doing.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_04: It's not just, you know, you're not just espousing, you know, as you say, there's lots of people talking about the impact revolution, but I think that you have a depth, which I feel is a very good example, particularly for women wanting to do things, not just women, but I do think there's a big move, particularly in the beauty space, of women moving into that sector, and also showing that science can be used in really lateral ways.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_04: And that you're a really good example of that.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_04: What what do you think that science has given you as a base?
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_04: Like, is it Yeah?
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: No, I'm actually thrilled I did my science train.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's funny, at the time there was a period in my career early on where I thought, why did I study science?
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_03: I should have studied business.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm now in operations and supply chain.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I can't believe I did that.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: But then obviously, silly me.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, of course, it was great.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think science in university in general keeps keeps and teaches you critical thoughts and how to attack a solution and how to analyze things and how to think about solving for things.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's what's really giving me my foundation to try and map a product lifestyle or try to map our solution.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_03: But of course, obviously understanding ingredients and formulations definitely helps when formulating, because I obviously formulate my own products.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, yeah, that does help.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I think critical thought in general and problem solving.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's a very good point.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_04: And you need a lot of that.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_04: What are some of the challenges that you've faced along the journey?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_04: And uh, you know, because it's it's quite daunting.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_03: So I know we're just we've only talked about the good stuff, which makes me laugh.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: When I when I talk about these things, I'm like, it all sounds great.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, let me tell you, like, I've done plenty wrong.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_03: I've had so many mistakes.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's been an absolute journey and it's been really tough.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's really hard to run a business.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's really hard as any founder, especially being young and a female, um, to do this.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_03: I think I worked on my business plan and formulations probably two years before I'd even launched.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, you go through the motions of people telling you you're too young, you're naive, you need a co-founder.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_03: Have you thought about partnering up with a male to do this?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know about beauty, I don't think people care about sustainability.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, constantly.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_03: And so for me, if I reflect on what's probably been the hardest thing for me, I think it's people around me telling me all the reasons why I either shouldn't do it, can't do it, or won't be good enough on my own to do it.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: And having enough confidence consistently to tell myself, no, it's okay.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: I've got a mission and I've got a dream and I'm gonna help make the solution, I'm gonna do it, and I am enough to do it.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's probably been the hardest thing for me.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_03: Because as you can imagine, you know, being um younger, it sometimes does weigh on you, and you kind of have those days where you're like, what am I doing?
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_03: Should I kept my cushy job?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: I can't believe I took a pay cut to do the, you know, you go through those emotions.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I also think it's incredibly lonely sometimes as a founder because no one cares as much as you, right?
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I work seven days, morning nights, I'm obsessed, I go to bed thinking about my business, I wake up thinking about my business.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I can sometimes feel a little bit alone and isolated in that.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that can become quite tough.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but having the ability now, after I did a raise, to be able to hire brilliant people has really helped because now I'm kind of sharing the load with people who really care about what we're doing and they're very much aligned with that vision.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I feel like that's helping me.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: But to say it was all easy, I'd be with I'd be lying.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I actually I think it's really comforting for other young entrepreneurs and and startups who are trying to get a foothold because I suppose that's really how anything good starts and develops, and the fact really your tenacity, your determination, and your commitment, as you say, working, you know, working pretty hard on a very um it's your passion and and you've made something quite extraordinary.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_04: But also I noticed that you, you know, I can see that the team around you, some of whom I've met, yeah, also support you.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_04: And there's a wonderful energy that I see in well, certainly what I've seen so far, not everything, but I haven't seen all of it.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_03: But it I do think you can come see all of it if you want to, Deb.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_04: Don't you worry, I'll be there, I know where you are, I'll be there.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I think the energy is, you know, very effusive.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_04: There's a sense of even when it's a hard day, even when you're getting through the tough stuff, you seem to have a very positive lens that this is what you need to do for you, but also for others.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_03: I think I was taught that at a very young age, that like there's always an answer, you'll always find a way, and everything's always going to be okay, and you're better off thinking about how you're gonna fix it rather than dwelling on like anything negative or like why it's gone wrong.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think with my team, I think they're definitely my proudest achievement by far and my best milestone because no one can do anything on their own.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_03: No one can do anything great on their own.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_03: You need great people around you to help you do it.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_03: And so, especially my core three people have been life-changing for me.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_03: And not only are we an amazing team together, but we're now friends as well outside of um outside of the workplace, which is really special.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_03: And there's a really nice separation between the two, and we never kind of have conflict, which is quite unique and definitely unusual that um we can hang out outside of work and not talk about work.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: When we're at work, everyone's just aligned with the mission and the vision, and everyone's excited, and there's that like palpable energy where it's like we're gonna help make an impact, we're gonna like help people's skin, we're gonna help the planet.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like, there's that excitement, which I think is really cool, but I think it's definitely important as a startup.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like if you're not waking up to be like, let's do this, it's gonna be a very, very hard slug.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_04: Lisa Balti is one of those rare talented people whose life as a principal ballet dancer has taken her across the globe, mesmerizing audiences with her stunning and elegant performances.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_04: She is truly a national treasure.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_04: Lisa danced with the Australian Ballet Company from 1986 to 2002, and then again in 2007, and was promoted to principal artist by the revered artistic director Maina Gilgud.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_04: Highlights with the Australian Ballet have included performing principal roles from the entire classical repertoire, including the mentioned Swan Lake, The Sleeping Beauty, Giselle, Romeo and Juliet, La Silfide, Ramonda, Don Quixote, Maynon, Annika Renina, and the list goes on: some of the most beautiful ballets to ever be created.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_04: As a guest artist, Lisa performed with Mureev's Farewell Australian Tour in the 90s and with the National Ballet of Canada in Swan Lake and the Merry Widow.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_04: In 1998, Lisa was awarded the Mo Award for the Best Female Dancer after her performances in Rome and Juliet.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_04: She really is quite an extraordinary dancer and is revered across the ballet world.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_04: Currently, she's the Southern Chapter Chair of the Australian Ballet Foundation Board.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_04: Well, she now shares her knowledge learnt through years of being coached by wonderful artists herself, mentoring full-time ballet students in Melbourne.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_05: Well, it's you wouldn't believe it.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_05: And well, I was just that.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_05: I started to dream of dancing.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_05: We actually lived on Stradbroke Island in Queensland, and my dad was working regrowing all the forests after they'd been mined, and uh we were just in a miners' cottage there, and I started to talk about learning ballet, and and you know, mum and dad wanted more for us as children and wanted to give us the you know the opportunities that Australia had at that time in the 1970s, and so um dad inquired with the Queensland Ballet to see if there was any way they could send a teacher over to Strabrook Island, but of course that was you know impossible.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_05: So in our around 1970, I must have been 197 sort of five, is five or six, we moved to the mainland and and I began my little um journey with ballet, and you know, right from that very first class, that first year, I loved it.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_05: I loved everything about the movement, you know, waltzing to music, learning party polka, hearing we danced to the blue Danube.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_05: I still can remember the music I danced to in my very first concert and and it set the seed for my life.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_05: I really, I knew that you know this is what I wanted to do, and and then just worked.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_05: A couple of years later, um mum put me into a school that she thought would give me more, you know, more of the discipline, more of the really intense um quality, quality training of ballet.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_05: So I I then went from to Caprice Dancing School, a really beautiful um ballet school in Queensland, um in the Redlands area, and learnt with Margaret Lucas and Janish now.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_05: And right until I left home at um at the age I was just turning 16 when I got a place with the Australian Ballet School.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_04: Well, it's a really beautiful story, and I particularly like the way that your parents made obviously quite a big move to support you.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that actually is quite a pivotal part of the story because really you can't you need to start ballet early.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_04: And if you don't have the parental support or somebody's support to do that, it becomes quite difficult, doesn't it?
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_04: Because really, had your parents not made that decision and seen your talent or your ability or your passion, then you would have been on Stradbroke Island, as beautiful as that is, which we all agree, it it's quite remote and there certainly wouldn't have been a ballet school.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_04: So, how much of that do you put down to your parents supporting your your journey?
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, so much, so much so, Deb.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_05: I I couldn't have done it both my parents in their individual ways.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_05: You know, mum was of course the one that, you know, she drove me to all my lessons.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_05: She made all my ballet costumes, my sister's, and for a while my brother learned.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, she made maybe 30 costumes a year, and she'd often make other children's as well for the concerts, and you know, she really they're divine.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_05: I've just had an exhibition up in Queensland where I I lived, and we were able to um you know find some of those costumes, and they're still in immaculate condition.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_05: And uh, so mum, you know, mum did all of that, and she was she was really um you know just very grounded and and and then dad was the the the force where you know he was so positive about me dancing, and he he he used to um you know see me dancing around the house and I'd always have this music on, and he'd see me sort of making up stories to to beautiful music.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_05: And and I know when he was when I was young, you know, we we used to go to people's places and you know, dad in all his innocence and he they were only 21 when they had me, so they're quite young parents.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_05: Very young, very young parents, yeah.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_05: They and he used to say, you know, to to my uncle or to to to close friends, he's just like, you know, she's going to do it, she's got the talent.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, whether I really, you know, did at that age or but to have your father believe in you like that was just such a gift, you know, because he he, you know, you I you of course hear those things, and then my uncle over the years he used to say, you know, your dad used to say you had the talent.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_05: We used to laugh at that because how could you know that a 10-year-old had the talent?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_05: And uh, but you know, that's cool.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_05: And then it carried right through, Deb.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_05: It was very grounded, you know.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_05: I was a very um just a normal Aussie kid.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_05: I had the, you know, the my three brothers and sisters, and we just, you know, we played out the back in the garden, and you know, we went on two-week holidays to my grandparents.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_05: It was a very normal Aussie life, and and they they supported me, you know, with my dream.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_05: And then when I got that position at the Australian Ballet School to leave Queensland and fly to Melbourne to set up in an apartment in Melbourne at 16 with you know, three kids that I did barely knew, and uh, but they supported me with that, but you know, both with the the monetary support, but really, you know, they were there every week to to talk to me on the phone once a week, and they they had mum had written this beautiful little book of you know, just little sayings, things to how to behave when things are difficult, how to, you know, have confidence in your friends, you know, choose your friends well and have confidence that they're they're going to be there with you and trust your family, you know, just little things that really I could follow my life by.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_05: And mum and dad, you know, they they didn't, you know, they weren't because of the younger brothers and sisters, they weren't able to come down all the time.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_05: But for the really important things, like mum came to see me dance at Covent Garden when I was 21.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_05: I'm sure she did.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_05: I wouldn't miss that to the world.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_05: They flew to um they flew to London to see me dance the lead role with Stephen Heathcote in um The Sleeping Beauty when the company was on tour there in 1988, and then and then another time my dad, you know, I was opening doing my first opening night of Swan Lake, and my dad flew to Melbourne, and and he sort of he flew down and he called me, and I was in the dressing room.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_05: I was always in the addressing room preparing very early for a show, you know.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_05: You'd get in for a show around, you'd finish rehearsals around three-ish in the day, and then you'd you'd start preparing for that show around 4:30.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_05: And and dad, I got the call from him down in the dressing room at the State Theatre, and he's he's like, Lise, um, I'm here.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_05: I just wondered, I've got my suit, my dinner suit, but I can I wear my riding boots?
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_05: And I was just like, oh just.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my god, your parents sound so beautiful, and so there's a really beautiful.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I were there five of you.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_04: Is that right?
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_05: There were four of us, actually.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_05: Four of you, right.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_05: And and my mum and dad, so six of us all together.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_04: So I mean, everything that you're describing just shows how pivotal they were to your journey, but also that beautiful little authentic them trying to make sure that, you know, that he wears the suit with the right shoes and and to be there at the things that matter, because you were actually quite young, and also it takes a lot of courage, I know as a parent, and you'd be the same, to let your 16-year-old go and you know, set up in Melbourne with three, as you say, people you didn't know.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_04: But that must mean that they had a lot of trust and faith in you and that your core values were sturdy enough to be able to sustain that journey.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_05: I think so.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, along the way, it wasn't an easy journey that very first year at 16.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_05: It was so difficult, you know, you're training in a whole new way, and it was wonderful training, but at the time, you're suddenly, you know, you've been a big fish in Queensland, you know, with all your your friends, and and and then you come down to Melbourne, and suddenly I was with the most talented young dance students in the whole of Australia, and that was overwhelming in itself.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_05: And then my teacher, who was was brilliant, at the time it was a lot of new new parts of dancing, and and really looking into yourself that it was a different different way of learning, and that was very confronting.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, I used to have you know two hours, five of us on a Friday afternoon, coaching, and literally every time I'd go to move, she'd sort of say, No, you know, every Friday afternoon for a whole year, I was virtually in tears because you know, I just felt like you know, I was not moving forward.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_05: But funny enough, that persistence thing in life where you just you just keep doing your homework, you keep listening, you keep trying to do what your teacher says.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_05: And slowly, slowly, you know, I I gradually, you know, with my parents' support, um, you know, Mum had encouraged me to go back each semester after after a holiday, and she'd sort of said, you know, just try and stay to the end of the year, and just try and she gave me all these little you know, little pinnacle things to get to get through to the next point.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_05: And and then it came to the end of the year, and my favourite thing has always been performing.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_05: I just love performing, and we all had to audition for this ballet um graduation ball, and they actually let the very first year students audition for the lead roles, and by chance I gained one of those roles for the for the lead roles.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_04: It sounds like not by chance, but by absolutely hard work and focus and and discipline.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_05: It was hard work, and but you know, I I just it's like anything when you feel that if you're doing something that you love and performing was something that I love, and I had a character to throw myself into.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_05: And like you say, um, you know, you saw Romeo and Juliet just last week, and the Australian ballet, you know, are performing that at the moment for the first time after 19 years.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_05: And it's a ballet that every every dancer of the Australian ballet and many around the world, that is the ballet to dance.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_05: It's one of the great works, and um, and you know, you I loved it when you could throw yourself into a role and something like to Juliet or something where you can be a character.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_05: Giselle, you know, which is also beautiful, you know, which I know you've also done, dance.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you can study the character, and you can you can read books, you can you can read history books that are similar to the time that that you were in, and you can you can listen in depth to the music and get the phrasing just right.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, that was always just so interesting, my whole career.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_05: And of course, you got better and better as you evolved in your career.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_05: Perhaps as a young dancer, I took a lot of notes.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_05: So I used to always write myself notes leading up into the performance.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_05: So I've got quite detailed notes of you know the week before preparations for my role, uh, what I'm reading, what I'm what I'm delving into, um, the music, and then right as far as you know, what I'm going to do on the day of my performance.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_05: So I'd I'd delve into you know what I what I do for rehearsals, what sort of notes I'd I'd I'd need to do on stage just before I go on stage and and warm up and what time I'll do my hair.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_04: And it sounds very um No, it sounds actually very particular, but also I don't think people fully appreciate.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_04: And what you've just outlined is really fascinating to me.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_04: The level of discipline, yes, which is evident, but also the multi-layering of a cultural immersion in the story, the history, the notes are a reflection of your research.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not sure that people fully appreciate just how complex taking on that role is.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_04: It's not just a matter of being disciplined in a dancer that's amazing and beautiful, but actually having a sensitivity and a an enculturation of sorts, is that which I find really quite a um an eye-opener.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I I sort of felt, you know, from a young age, it was what I loved about dancing was actually the storytelling.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_05: And I mean, of course, I love the classical technique and moving to music and making making the whole full experience, but but you know, when you look at it from an artistic or an acting point of view, you know, actors have got the the different methods and styles of acting, and and I guess I read books along those lines as a dancer as well, and what actors did to make their movies and their performances really rich.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_05: And I sort of felt, well, why not align that with my own career?
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_05: And and um, you know, if it was a ballet like Romeo and Juliet, you know, what would I be feeling as I'm you know running in to see the nurse in the day, and and what I feel, what my relationship was like with the mother, at you know, you know, is she being a mother that's been very very distant, and you try to please her, but you can only you know you can only please her on some level, and you know, all of those different ones, all of those nuances, you know, that I actually observed and I'm reflecting on having recently seen that particular ballet.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you talk about, you know, the clearly the the discipline is evident, and your first year is a really good exemplification of how much you have to push through.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for listening.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_02: The What I've Learned podcast comes out every Tuesday for more fantastic stories from amazing guests.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: Check out the What I've Learned Instagram for more updates.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: And as Deb would say, stay tuned, kind, and curious.