Latest / Skin Anarchy / Stephanie Stahl, CEO and Co-Founder of Ace Of Air

Transcript

Stephanie Stahl, CEO and Co-Founder of Ace Of Air · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, this is Ekta.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: I just wanted to pop in and say thank you so much to Pop Tiger UK for featuring us as one of the top 11 beauty podcasts to listen to right now.
• 0:10
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• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's such a such a surreal thing for us.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much, and thank you to all of our listeners.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone who's given even a second of their day to us, thank you from the bottom of my heart.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: It means the world to us.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you guys are loving our content and stay tuned for a lot more.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: This is Ekta, and I have a very special episode for you guys for Earth Day today.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to the CEO and co-founder of Ace of Air, Stephanie Stahl.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the show, Stephanie.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so, so excited you're here, and it's such an honor to host you.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: So happy to be here.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's such an honor to host you.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: I would love it, uh Stephanie, if you could start off by just telling us about yourself and your career and you know, just your journey and beauty and what led to this um to this brand.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I've I've had a fairly long career.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I started when I was five.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um all the most uh you know genius women do.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: I went from college to work on Wall Street because I had a lot of student debt and um needed a job that I thought I would learn a lot, and I certainly did.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and from there went on to get an MBA and kind of used that time to pivot a little bit from investment banking to consulting, you know, not exactly a daring move on my part, to be fair.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: However, it did get me into a line of work that I learned that I loved.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: So um I was at the Boston Consulting Group for almost 13 years in their consumer retail and media practice as a partner.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: And in that role, got to work with amazing brands, either um with specific things that they wanted to understand or in great distress or any combination therein.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: And that was a pretty amazing set of experiences in terms of learning.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: I bet with a range of people, and usually on things that were pretty challenging.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I I kind of learned I I realized that I I loved those kind of big change um situations and I love brands.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, no, I love that.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I love that you've you know you've experienced so many different angles, right?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's that's really the the value of experience in in any industry.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: So um I love that you went into that.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: I want to actually talk about how you know, from that journey, then how did uh you come to ace of air?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like how did that so I I went, I I left consulting and became chief marketing officer at Revlon.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: Was there for five, six years and was part of a team that kind of transformed the business.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, Revlon is a storied brand with an amazing history and has had a lot of different chapters.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: And that chapter we took it from kind of declining to to stabilizing to growing, and that's uh that that's an accomplishment with an established brand and a really competitive marketplace, right?
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, accomplishment is a very, very mild word to use.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, okay.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Revlon is like the one and only brand that I've ever, like my whole life I've had.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: So that wow, like yeah.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: And we'd get we get letters from people in their 70s and 80s, you know, sometimes you just you discontinue a color, right?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's not really moving, but somebody's still using that color and they really love it and they're really sad.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: So it taught me about sort of the power of a category that is both very science-based, right?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: Getting these formulas right, getting the colors right, getting the packaging to operate both functionally and aesthetically and pleasingly, and also calculating, you know, um, turns per inch at Walmart.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um then you have the emotional side.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I've done shop-alongs.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: I remember I did a shop-along um with a young woman who had just had twins, and she signed up to do the shop-along, and she said, This is the first time I've been out of the house.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: And she was so excited to be.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think we were in Kmart, and we were in the cosmetic aisle, and she was almost in tears because she talked about the power of you know, her cosmetics, kind of the armor for her, the way it helped her feel and showing up in the world, and you know, the power of skincare and and beauty and wellness for all people, but it was it was just it was very eye-opening to me.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I can't that's very moving.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's very moving.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm a skincare person, as my amazing mother, late mother, used to say, um, I'm not a big cosmetic user.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: And and she would sort of say, you know, you could do so much more with yourself.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: I know that's not exactly what she meant, but that is exactly what she said.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I just think this is so so interesting because I agree.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think skincare is, you know, definitely the next step for me.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've when I discovered how interesting skincare I was, makeup became even more fun.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like it like enhances that experience.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: And and I love that you've you've had that.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: What you just described really touched me, that experience that you just described.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, my mother, the only like she was very similar.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: The only you know, makeup item she had when she came here from India was a Revlon lipstick.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think she still has that to this day.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it's crazy.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious about shade.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's like a beautiful, you know what I mean?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's like that one of those um burgundy shades, you know, and that's the only color she ever wears.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, my point is that you know, what you're saying is so beautiful, and I I love that.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it is really more about it's not just about vanity, it's about a whole lot more, you know.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: It really is, it really is.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: And it's can be so positively um reinforcing to self, right?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why, you know, I I love the category, I love being in the category.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, Rebel kind of moved into another chapter, and I moved into another chapter, and I found myself in this uh another amazing experience where I got to work as CEO and partner with um Tracy Anderson and Gwyneth Paltro at the Tracy Anderson Method.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow in the wellness space.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously, personal training, classes, studios.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we launched Metamorphosis, which was a way to actually bring Tracy's amazing method to many more people at a much more accessible price point via DVDs.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm dating myself, right?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: That was kind of a breakthrough, like a time.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay, that was the best of times.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I remember DVDs, I'll date myself too.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: But I I loved their passion and and helping make real the idea of, you know, there are those who can afford to, you know, they're kind of the sky's the limit.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: There are no bounds for amazing personal trainers and and and all of that, and the commitment that Tracy and Gwynneth had that they wanted to figure out how do they bring sort of the core magic of Tracy's um combination of dance and strength um uh practice to, you know, at a dollar a day, which is basically what that that program was.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so that was I that was a much smaller business.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I was not sure, right?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'd worked in some pretty big companies up until that point.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: And what I found is I really loved being in a small environment where it is a family and um it is also as CEO, every everything you touched you could potentially make better, right?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, a big company, yes, but it it's different, right?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: And and there are more layers and paste and all that stuff.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, my office was basically a Pilates box in the hallway, a studio on the on the lower east side, and my cell phone.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, you know, Tracy likes to train in heat, so it's 86 degrees and 70 some odd percent humidity, and the decibels of the music, amazing music, she has amazing music taste, at you know, a deafening level, but it's all good.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, as long as it's good, you know, as long as it's good, but another category where the power of it as a positive in people's lives, right?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: Mental, uh physical health, mental well-being, all of the intertwining of those things.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've I've found myself, and and the last big emotional category that I then um got to to create a transformative brand strategy for was coach in the Leather Goods um fashion world.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: That was my first purse.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: You're just like you're just a pioneer.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm just talking to one of the greatest.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because honestly, everything you've explained so far, it's like these weren't these aren't small things, these are things that I remember growing up, like watching happen, you know what I mean, or brands that I clung to.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's beautiful.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like yeah, it's it's really a privilege being able to speak to you.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, well, you're you're that's lovely.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I, you know, I I was so excited to go to coach because my mom's first bag in the 70s was, you know, kind of that, I think it was the the the penny.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: And such beautiful leather and simple lines and very functional.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so Iraq too, I love brands.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: So and I love the power of brands in people's lives, right?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: A brand is shorthand for an emotional reaction, right?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: They're functional benefits, but the emotional benefits, those things have to ladder together.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and that's so fast forward.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: After I kind of had a moment to think about what did I really want to do and be when I grow up, I I really wanted to learn more about the full digital world.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I manage that as a chief marketing officer, but generationally I didn't grow up in it.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: And that it's different to sort of um lead and manage versus do.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I really like having the opportunity to do because it gives you an additional perspective on what's possible, where the obstacles are, and those kinds of things.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, you know, there was so much happening.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: This was in 2015, in the startup world, right?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: And that felt um like something I really wanted to have the opportunity to experience.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: And shortly thereafter, had the amazing good fortune to be introduced by a long-standing dear friend, um, David Nolton, who is one of our three Ace of Air co-founders.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: He's a longtime investment banker, advisor, um, financial expert.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: He introduced me to Petra Numkova, um, who is um my other co-founder.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: And Petra's one of those people that when you meet her, um, she sort of appears like a light in the room.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: And not just because she's stunning, because of course she's stunning.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, it's that kind of but the fact that she has dedicated her life since surviving the Phuket Tsunami to not only continuing to have a very vibrant and um uh successful supermodeling career, but most of all her time and her effort um went into she created a foundation after the Phuket Tsunami and called Happy Hearts, dedicated to rebuilding schools in disaster-ravaged communities.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: Because when she recovered from her injuries, she went back to Phuket, I think with her mother and her sister, to see how they could help and and where the gaps were.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: And she tells the story in her observation that you know, a lot of money and and terrific resources come pouring in immediately, right?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: The first responders.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but then when things fall out of the press, right, and things start to do that.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, then what happens?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: And she said one of the things that is slow to get rebuilt are schools, and it can take four to six years, and so you miss a whole generation of children.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, that is that's real work right there.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's real work, and I'm not gonna have the metrics quite right, but she then um also impressively merged her foundation, um, Happy Hearts, and it's now All Hands and Hearts is another organization, um, All Hands, which is fantastic, that also rebuilds uh homes in disaster ravaged communities.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: So they joined forces to be more powerful, which doesn't happen a lot in the nonprofit world.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so now it's all hands and hearts, and they've, I don't know, rebuilt, I think over 300 schools and thousands of homes, and they're everywhere, right?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: From Puerto Rico to Petra ended up spent two years in Haiti after the earthquakes there, focused on schools.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so you meet this person who walks the walk, talks the talk, does the work, is in these places that are not easy to get to.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: There's no glam in that, and it's her heartbeat.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: And she had been thinking about well, what might be um something in the beauty space, an area she knows well, and the wellness space, you know, but Petra's been a vegan, I think, for 18 years, um, very much for health and planet reasons, but you know, an early, an early, an early vegan, a a um um a leader in that space.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, when it was first it was she actually discovered it on her own kind of thing.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so we got to talking, and there were three things that we we got really excited about.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: One was look, clean beauty, right?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: However you define it.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: The fact that so many ways, the fact that that's gone from niche to mainstream in what seven years, six years, and and all kudos to all who have helped drive that.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_02: But I think Greg Renfrew and Beauty Counter have been particularly, you know, leaders in that advocacy information.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: And we thought, look, that we define clean as you know, ingredients that do do good and nothing else, right?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: To the extent possible.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: And we felt like there was an opportunity to bring that to supplements as well.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: And supplements is kind of a complicated category, right?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And and yeah, I mean, you picked the hardest one.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: You really did.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's a very that that is, you know, definitely, I would think in beauty and wellness right now, that is the hardest one, even when I think of it from the medical perspective, all perspectives.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I mean, I'm I'm excited to hear the story.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so that was one sort of foundational tenant.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: The the second was Beauty Inside and Out.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: And and this was 2017 when we first started having um discussions.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so Beauty Inside and Out was quite nascent at that point.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there was certainly increased interest and search around you know, gut health, and your skin really only looks as good as your gut, and what does that mean, and balancing gut and all of that.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: But we felt look, you know, your skin is the largest organ in your body.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: I know from personal experience that I've eaten garbage and slept nothing for a week, it really doesn't matter what I put on my face.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's exactly it's not gonna go well.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the big pain points, I'm sure you're you know this in in supplements for the consumer, is they're just so many.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: And so you stand in front of that rack in CVS or your local, you know, um vitamin store, and it's a little daunting, and it's not always so easy to get help.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so we wanted to make that a simpler, um, a simpler engagement and a simpler way to do that.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: And look, there are those who think, you know, uh, what's the value in supplements?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I will say, as a mom, I dutifully tried, mostly succeeded to get my three sons to take their vitamins because I knew their diets weren't perfect.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um it felt like it couldn't do any harm and actually might do good.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: And then you start reading the research because of our depletion of our soil that you know, a pound of broccoli 20 years ago has X percent more nutrients, good stuff than it does today.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know about you, but eating three pounds of broccoli doesn't feel very appealing.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that doesn't sound very appealing.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: And Kale and I have always had a difficult relationship.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I just got into that trend, I'm not gonna lie.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: I really tried because Tracy and Gwyneth are big Kale people and and they look amazing, but that that that one that one's a tricky one for me.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: So the idea that, you know, I think as as a species, we we need to do some other things around regenerating our planet and our soil and and farming and all of those practices, but I I do think supplements that are made well are an additive part of a wellness routine and can have very direct benefits to skin.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think you're very, very, very much right with that.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know for a fact that there is so much untapped knowledge in the area of supplements.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, like I'm just I'm saying this out for my opinion in general, because I think that's supplements, I think in the beauty industry get the most, you know, criticism.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, okay, I get it, you know, but it's like there is definitely a purpose.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: And things like, for example, in pediatrics, you know, they give elderberry to help with you know kids around flu time and stuff.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of truth in that.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I please continue, but I just wanted to insert that little, you know, my little opinion.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: No, I love that.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think about there was an instance where a a medical doctor said, look, COQ would be really good for, you know, one of my kids at a certain point.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: And and so I I do I do believe, um, and then you know, then you can do them well or you can do them less well, which then brings us to the third tenant, which 32 years ago, in my very first, oh my goodness, I really did just state myself.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, in my very first project.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: We're all we're all friends here.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: There we go.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it included a module on recycling because it was in the packaging uh sector, and there was a real war going on in those days in the dairy case between plastic and paper.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously it wasn't just paper, it was, you know, multi-plastic coated paper, but there was a real battle going on.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the questions raised by the client was well, what is actually being recycled?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: What impact does that have in reality, in the mind of the consumer, et cetera, et cetera?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so I spent a couple of weeks very uh spent in depth with the leaders of the local recycling centers in the tri-state area in the northeast.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: And was really struck, you know, one of the things you ask in consulting is, you know, where's the money?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because that is one of the drivers of things.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: Of course.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: And in recycling at that time, there's a lot of money in waste management.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: There was not much money in recycling.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: In part because it takes a lot to do the sorting and the collecting and the, you know, if it's dirty, then it goes, you know, to China, or at least up until two years ago.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then you sort it and you bail it.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: And if it's plastic, if the cost of virgin plastic is lower than the aftermarket for the baled used plastic, then it goes to landfill.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: And that was sort of a depressing learning for me at that time.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then fast forward, and and as Petra and I were thinking about, we we put a pretty high bar on what we thought warranted being created.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: And you could say, and and you know this space really, really well, and we sort of joke about, you know, the world needs another beauty and wellness ground, like a hole in the head.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: There are a lot and many amazing ones.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so we we kind of took that pretty seriously and said, well, what are what are we gonna do that that is truly um a positive?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: And as we looked at skincare and supplements, you know, the the statistic is I think the beauty industry creates 120 billion units of packaging a year.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: 120 billion.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like something crazy.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: People are always talking about that, and I feel like the numbers always going up.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, right.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: And most of it's single use plastic.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: And in this country, only seven to nine percent of plastic gets recycled.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: So you you look at that, and and that began, I think from my my background, you can see I love learning.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: I love being around people who know much, much more than I do.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you're a pioneer.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna say it.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're a pioneer, and that's just how your mind works.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to create things, you know.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: We all need to accept this, that she's going to create something magical every time she tries.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, wouldn't that be wonderful?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um certainly gonna try.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: And we then um started putting together this amazing group of humans who are our expert advisors because I think we were very clear on what we know and what we're good at and what we could contribute.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, what what we had gaps in, and so we work with one of the top dermatologists in New York City, um, one of the best beauty formulators in the industry, a husband and wife natural pharmacology team who have led the creation of Ace of Air's um supplements, and then um a fantastic environmental activist and educator.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: And he, you know, that sector is large, dynamic, really important.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um goes the gamut from uh great things to promising things, maybe in the future at some time, to greenwashing to BS.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and everything in between.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so we really wanted someone to help us navigate what would be better.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: And this wasn't always clear.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: We did something important at the beginning.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we did a lifecycle analysis where um scientists break down the packaging and the formula by a global standard database.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, is there so there is a global standard then?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, there is okay.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's something you just you just answered a huge question I've had for many months now.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, please continue more on that because I I've never heard of that.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a global standard data database, and I'll come back to that in a minute, um, because there is one impact that because it's a global standard database, there's a fair amount to getting the global standards.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's the impact of microplastics, right?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_02: The fact that it is everywhere, that it is in our food and therefore in us, and apparently we're all consuming a credit card's worth of microplastics everywhere.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, not to mention the nanoparticles that come off of off of plastics, you know what I mean?
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's so much craziness.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that has not yet been determined what its weight should be.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: So what does that mean though?
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really So that means.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: So um, let me explain one of the things that is included.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, if you um so one of the packages that we had analyzed, so we analyzed 10 direct-to-consumer skincare and supplement products from different brands.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and they were supplements that might be in sachets or skincare in a refillable or skincare in a glass jar or um a supplement with the really cool mushroom um dissolving packaging, right?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: So we really wanted to include both some of the classics and the more you know pushing the edge.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: And when they do a teardown on that packaging, so for example, if you use a certain kind of a paper, that global database has a uh uh a number that includes okay, how much of that paper gets recycled, right?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: In the main, what is the impact of that?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: What does it do if it breaks down?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: All of those pieces are included.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: So the microplastic thing, I think we're learning about that more recently, right?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so this is back in 2018, and it was really beginning to become very clear the issue.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think five dryers has been amazing at at driving some of that dialogue.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: And that they haven't yet figured out how to account for.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a big negative, and it's not in our data.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: And what our data showed us was that of those 10 products, there were some variations, but not major, I will say.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so really we're just we just we're just finding better ways to like, you know, not better ways, but like different ways to do the same damage.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: Largely, and that's where I learned for the first time about the linear economy and the circular economy.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, yeah.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm now I'm very, very, very curious.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so linear economy, what do you mean by that?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like the two?
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: So the the kind of the thumbnail for the linear economy is take, make, waste, repeat.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, right.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: So you take resources from the planet, whatever they are.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: So if it's mushroom dissolving packaging, you have to grow mushrooms.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: And perhaps that's better than using petroleum byproduct plastic, but that's what you're taking, right?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then you're making something, and there are resources and and both human, right?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: If we want to talk about labor and and that very important sector, so you're making things with resources, and then because we have become such a single-use disposable culture, yeah, invariably you then waste them.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's also the form in which you use things.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I hate that argument of people saying, well, if we're replenishing something, then we can use it.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: No, because there's this thing called different phases of chemicals.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, you can't give back, like you can't put back the same ingredient the way that you found it fully.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then there are renewable ingredients, right?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then there are finite, right?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: So petroleum is one of those finite ones, right?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's not regenerating itself once we've drilled it all out, it's gone.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then you know, that repeats again.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so you can take better and you can waste better, right?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: So recycling is better, except most things can only be recycled once, maybe twice.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: Most things are downcycled, right?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like they're becoming a better version of themselves, they're headed down.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's what I learned about the circular economy, which is about designing out waste from the beginning.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: So really important for designers and the people that you know create the things we all use and enjoy.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: And up until I'm gonna get the decade wrong, but if you think about there was a time where things were not created for designed obsolescence.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: That shifted at a point where somebody got the great idea.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, if we design for obsolescence, the consumer has to buy it again.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: And there's no more repairing of it, but we'll sell more.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: Which brings you to the scorecard of businesses is too narrow.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't include all of these other constituents, like the planet, like people.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like all the resources that period.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's so the difference between so linear is take-make waste, and if you take as fact that we are consuming as a people more than the planet can provide, and we are wasting more than the planet can withstand, yeah, it takes you to okay, so tell me more about this circular economy.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: And today, 9% of the global economy is circular and 91% is linear, and we actually need to flip that.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Where is that mostly happening, the circular approach?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: Is it it's so there are a couple of great examples.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: There's a floor covering company called Interface, yeah, who has been a real leader in trying to figure out because a lot of if you think about the first thing you do when you move into a new home, right, you tend to rip out whatever was there.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: And most of that goes, you know, to landfill.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so the CEO of Interface has figured out how do they source differently, how do they reclaim, how do they make more of a closed loop out of that cycle.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is this is really big stuff, Stephanie.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is amazing.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I didn't even know there were these two, you know, like these two approaches, and that that it was defined so well, I should say.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: I I didn't know that there was either.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because you know, I made, yeah, I made this point before.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, you know, we talk about sustainability a lot, but no one wants to bring in the experts.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like, you know, that's that's the biggest thing.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm I'm like learning so much from you right now.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Forgive me if I'm being a total nerd, but it's no, this is exactly I'm a nerd too.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay, we're nerds together.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, okay, so the the circular approach is being utilized only by nine percent.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, yeah, wow, and if you think about it, right?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: It it's and look, a lot of us are already circling, right?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: If you use a reusable water bottle, you're circling, right?
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: That is not that that that is a reuse model.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: If you're composting gold star, right?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because not only are you in a circle, but you are being regenerative because you are capturing nutrients that go and regenerate the earth.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, gold star.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but if you repair your clothes, or um, we've worked with uh uh an amazing content creator who talked about repairing her dog's toys, and I do that too.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, rather than go buy another toy, let me stitch.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, my mother was like very big on that.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I had to learn how to stitch, how to knit, how to cross stitch.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know when I'm gonna use that, but you know what I mean?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, like just fix what you've got.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to buy something new every time.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so, and and and to be really clear about it, um, you know, the the indigenous populations have always done this.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so has all of rural, you know, Asia.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, right?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: And and so this is we're not this is we're nobody's inventing anything here.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um we just we've become such a disposable, consumable um society.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, unfortunately, on the topic of plastic, it's now quite well documented that there was a concerted effort on the part of the plastic lobby and the plastic companies to basically put the onus on the consumer that, well, there's waste because you're you're a literer or you're you're not doing it right, and shame on you.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: And recycling is the great solution.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: And now it's come out that some of the individuals who were in those roles knew very well that it wasn't a solution, but it needed to appear to be a solution so that plastic would be not hated but loved.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's every lobbyist in the world.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Gosh, I just, you know, I I I think about these things, and it's like what you're saying to me is like I feel like innately in us as human beings, we should know how to stay within like know how to use our resources.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's built into all of us, but there's a psychology of consumerism that nobody wants to talk about.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very easy to like blame the consumer.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I love that you made this point, but it's it's a lot deeper than that, you know.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: It is right, and so we looked at that and and we looked at all the all the bowls, right?
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: The biodegradables, the refillables, the reusables, the compostables, the you know, lots of bowls.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, except those are all adjectives, yeah, they're no verbs.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so things can say that they're compostable, and then you have to dig into it, and you discover that it's only in industrial compost centers, of which there are very few.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you put that in your garden or if it goes into the trash, it's going to landfill.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: And this is where the greenwashing stuff becomes a bummer.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I I don't I we'll go to the positive now.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: We looked at all that and we said, all right, so we think there's another way.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: And let's actually take control of the things that we can control, right?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: Not wish for the next great scientific breakthrough silver bullet.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe there'll be one.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a little dubious, but I hope so.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: I really hope so, right?
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: Right, we too, yeah.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: Or pointing fingers at the big brands, why aren't you doing better?
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because we all have a role.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: And and we looked at this brand and said, okay, let's go a little bit back to the future, enabled by a very kind of breakthrough tech platform where we are a buy the product, borrow the package model, because what you want is the product, right?
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's what you're consuming.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: And everything else can be shared and reused.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the sharing, the the sharing aspect, like I see, I love the word sharing, but you did you run into problems when you were kind of like coming up the with the wording?
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because yeah, I figured, yeah.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to hear that story because I know there are some people out there there that are not really, you know what I mean?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: They don't think the way we do, and it's just yeah, right.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so we thought about borrowing, right?
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because remember when you used to borrow library books and you return them, and maybe somebody else had written a note in the margin and somebody else had used it, and that wasn't a deterrent, that was just how things were.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: And and actually, up until the late 60s, almost all of our soda and beer and milk were in glass, right?
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I missed those days, right?
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: Which was a really nice user experience.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and there were all these regionalized bottler systems that would pick them up, not to recycle them, but to clean them and reuse them.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, exactly.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: I remember yeah, yeah.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then the miracle of plastic, which it is a miraculous material, it is so light and cheap and and designable and malleable, and it's fantastic until it's not.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: And now we know it's got a lot of not.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: But to your point, right?
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: Drinking, I don't drink coke anymore, but drinking a coke out of a bottle.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, yeah.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: I still I still look for the bottles.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, can I, yeah, with the real sugars.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: I get you.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is such a it's just such a simple concept, isn't it, Stephanie?
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like you think about it, like you've got me thinking about this.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, how did we get so far from that?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like how?
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's like huge how far we've gotten from that.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: You know, where's the money?
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: And you said it, yeah.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: That, and and so we know in beauty, particularly in beauty, right, packaging matters.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: The user experience matters.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: How it looks on your countertop or on your vanity matters.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: And right you you sort of have to, once you make this choice, are we going to make durable packaging or disposable packaging?
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: And if you go for disposable, then I guess the goal is to use as little and and and have, but then I think you lose the user experience.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: Making durable, we then said, you know what, in this buy the product, borrow the package.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_02: Let's first start, right?
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: The three R's reduce, reuse, recycle.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: We put recycle in the last resort.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, it's important, and all of our materials are recyclable at end of life, but it was not the centerpiece.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: It was the last resort.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: We started with reduce.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: So skincare and supplements, as you know, right?
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: In many cases, skincare has the primary, the secondary, the cellophane, the um tamper evidence seals, right?
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of packaging, which is why in the lifecycle analysis, the product is about 25% of the impact, the stuff we use.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: Shipping, this is direct to consumer, is about five.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: And that is sometimes a little bit mind-blowing for people because you see trucks and you think that must be the problem.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it makes five, and also realize if you're not getting it to your house, you're probably driving to the store.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, that's true.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: But it's five, obviously.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna make improvements on that, but the packaging is about 70.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: Which, given how small the product is, it kind of makes sense, right?
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, skincare is small, supplements are small, and most of them end up supersized because at retail, any good marketer, the second question you get from your colleague at the retailer is well, how is this gonna stand up on shelf?
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: How is this?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, well, we'll just make it bigger.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, I I mean, making it bigger is not the not the answer.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's just like, but but here's the thing, I I want to know in terms of like, I'm still trying to figure out how does it work, like the the borrow concept.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you okay.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: I want I want you to tell us a little bit more about that.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: So you go to ace of air.com and you order our amazing bounce back moisturizer with Pinocchio, and you order our uh Illuminate Me Sunrise Serum with Merenga, and you want our um Megami Vegan Omega, because you know how important good fats are for your skin.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: You check out like on any other site, but what you will see when you check out, which is a little different, is the checkout shows the products you're buying and then a small rental fee for the packaging you're using, you're borrowing.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, how cool! This reminds me of Blockbuster.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: Oh goodness.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: Now we're both dating ourselves.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm not, yeah, now I'm really dating myself.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's so cool.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like really excited.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: This is cool.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: Just as a reminder that we're in a community, we're all in this together, and this is the sharing part of this.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then we only offer ground shipping because the environmental difference of ground versus air is significant.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: And look, we all know we're in a race to the bottom.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: We all want it delivered yesterday, today, prime, immediately.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: Again, a behavior I think that could be evolved.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's conditioned.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's been conditioned.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a lot of conditioned behaviors that we need to uh recondition ourselves out of.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:58
  unknown: Yep.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: So we only offer ground.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: So on average, depending on where you are, maybe that's two days, maybe that's four days.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we only offer carbon neutral.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: So we're in partnership with UPS, and they have a carbon neutral offset system.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: That is good on UPS.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_02: I like that.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: And so what arrives to you on your door is our what we call our boomerang box.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: And we call it that because it goes to you and it comes back to us.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's so cool.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: You're talking to a 90s kid.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I just want to say that boomerangs were the best.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: Blockbuster was the best.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: We were all about sharing growing up.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, I'm loving all of this.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: This is great.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_02: And we know that moment where you open your purchase, yeah, it would be a great moment.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be an awesome moment.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: We know all this that went behind it, and the whole experience is so different and cool.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like for me, I mean, even if you didn't tell me this whole story, uh it would, it would take me back.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I brought up things like Blockbuster and all these cool things because it would take me back to that experience.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: There was there's something beautiful in it, and there's there's so many memories in that.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, absolutely.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: So you open your boomerang box, yeah, and you'll see uh a note on the back of the outbound shipping label that says, Hi, you're amazing.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_02: And this is your seahorse shipper.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: So every shipper is named for a flora or fauna species.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, kind of personalize it and also to give it, right?
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: If we think about biodiversity and other things, right?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: This is really important.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_02: And then it says how many trips it's taken.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe it's taken five trips, or maybe it's taken 25 trips, and you know immediately you're part of this group who's natural resource cycling on and on.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: That is so well thought out.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: I am seriously in love with this concept.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: Now, don't tell me you guys have an app too, because then I'm gonna lose my mind.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: Is there an app yet?
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_02: There is an app, and we're we're just waiting to put the app out there because we all know real estate for apps in our personal lives and on our phones is hard-earned, and we want to make sure that it is additive to the web and mobile experience.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: And we're we're confident it is, we're just doing a little more fine-tuning.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, anyone out there listening, if you need to be sold even more on this, then there's something that you need to re-evaluate about yourself.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need any more convincing.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: As soon as this app goes up, I'm downloading it.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: You can have all the real estate on my phone.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_02: You'll be you'll be app download number one.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: So you open your boomerang box, and there are your products.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: We have designed out all secondary packaging, and we have designed out all the stuffing that normally appears in your corrugate box.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I love that.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: You take out your new moisturizer and your new vegan omega, and you put it to one.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Side.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then you flip it and ship it back to us, the boomerang box.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: And we know a pain point.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know about you, I hate doing returns, right?
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: Heaven forbid, I have ordered something that didn't work out or needs to go back.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then there's not so bad though.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: Remember when Netflix you had to return the DVD?
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: That was easy, right?
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: Netflix made it really easy, right?
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_02: No, and I remember that really clearly.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_02: So we wanted to make it really easy too.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: So all you do is you take out the address label that was to you, you flip it with the address label back to us.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's in a slot on the inside of the boomerang box, close it up, and UPS brings it back to us the first time empty.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that's important because we could do a model where you know what?
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: You wait until you're done with your products and then you ship everything back together.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: And but some people use skincare slowly.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so what we came to a conclusion is that we would we we you can borrow the product packaging, the primaries, for six months.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: And then we need them back.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: And that that felt like six months should be in the main long enough.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually very brilliant on so many different levels because we should be if you're buying a skincare brand or a product, you should be using it enough times in six months to where you've used it up.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, then you don't really like the product, you know?
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: Or, you know, and I know there are some people who like to experiment and and and and I completely get that.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: But we sort of, to your point, we were hoping this would be kind of a reasonable place.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: And we did focus groups and talked to to target consumers about it.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_02: And they were like, yep, yep, nope, that makes sense.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then on supplements, if you're taking them the way they're suggested, you should be done in a month, right?
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I feel like pharmacies need to do this.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is brilliant.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I really I'm just like sitting here, like thinking about all the industries that could do this and benefit.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm and I think more and more are thinking about it.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: And and one of the things we've done, right?
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because our our objective is yes, to create a brand that people love and that delivers products that they're really excited about and and love to use.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_02: We also would like to be a catalyst for the industry.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_02: And and we look at brands like Tesla, who have not only created uh an amazing business, but have also finally gotten the auto industry to move.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: Tesla is, see, if I wasn't already in love with her, she just made me like it just sealed the deal.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, Tesla is like my favorite.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: Elon Musk is like my favorite person on this planet.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm just obsessed with this vision.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I hear you.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, no, no, no prisoners, no, I mean, he's he's he's he's quite something.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah that so and with that, look, we've spent three and a half years, we've raised a fair amount of capital because the materials research and the tech platform, and you know, this is not this is not the all right, let's make some amazing formulas and use stock packaging, which is one economic model.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: This was a different um approach, but now we've done it, and we are in early conversations with other brands who also want to be able to become circular, and we have the turnkey that we can share on a B2B basis.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I also actually now see that makes me question one thing is how would the packaging work if the because you know, obviously every brand has their own vision of how packaging should be.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: So how would we like how would this work?
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, two ways, right?
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: One is you've got your packaging and you want the tech platform because as a brand, we not only have to track finished goods, but we have to track packaging units, right?
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because they're durable, valuable assets.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_02: So where they end up matters, not only for the environmental reasons, but also for economic reasons.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: So if I'm gonna lend something to you, then you know we're in a pact where it is gonna come back or there's a replacement cost for that unit, but that means we have to be able to know where that unit is.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you want, if you're a brand and you've already got, you know, packaging that you love and you just want to be able to become circular, we have the tech platform solution to apply to your existing packaging, assuming it's durable enough, right?
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, because durability is the hallmark.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's so cool.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, use our packaging and put your brand colors into and go that direction.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: So this is this is brilliant.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: This is seriously brilliant.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I wanna I want to keep talking about packaging.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: I could talk about it for literally days, and I'm going to seriously beg you to come back on because I want even more information, but I want to quickly ask you about the actual formulations of your of your mind.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: So tell me all about how what went into the the beautiful formulas and and you know, in terms of just what you were trying to target um in skin health.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: So this is where um first we decided look, let's think about this holistically and therefore formulate the topicals and the ingestibles together.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_02: So that they are intended to work together.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that is a hallmark of Ace of Air.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_02: And that's exactly what we did.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_02: So the the two biggest desired skin and benefits are glowing moisturized skin, right?
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then anti-aging, obviously without using that word.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the two biggest ones.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_02: And as we thought about where did we want to start, not where do we want to finish, but where do we want to start, we said, let's start with those two.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_02: And then began to think about all right, so what would the products be and what would be amazing um uh high impact natural ingredients to deliver the feel and the efficacy.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: And this is where Petra's experience in Haiti, where she became very knowledgeable about moringa, which is a kind of miracle tree that grows in sort of sub-Saharan climates.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_02: And in Haiti, they would actually use the powder from the leaves on children's food to augment their um nutrition because it's such a powerful um ingredient base, and then the seeds have this amazing oil that's awesome.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so we learn more about that, and we actually source our morengo oil from seeds from Haiti from a local cooperative that kind of reinforces and reinvests in the local community, which is something I love that.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you're putting that into the yeah, the community.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's for me, that's such a important it's it's so close to my heart because you know, I've said this so many times, and I feel like my listeners are getting sick of it about you know, my family's from rural India, and I have a lot of understanding of how much those communities, like every little thing, how much it's shared and how much it's worth to them.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, like huge, yeah, it's huge.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I love that.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so you we we've have some amazing video of some of the farmers who talk about look, you know, this allows me to buy uniforms for my children, and all right, we all had so many shared um objectives in our lives, and so that that is important.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_02: And then we source the leaves from an amazing B Corp.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_02: We're also a B Corp called Coolie Coolie, and they have a network of um farms and farmers, mostly female-owned, um, that uh grow that source the the leaves.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's how we thought about Illuminate Me.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: And then Mark Reiner, who is our expert advisor, beauty formulator, um, made magic out of that.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_02: And and I can't share the product references he used as we developed these products, but they are really special.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like we've really matched or gone past.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think what you're doing is magical overall.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, I think with skincare right now, there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of things that, you know, a lot of reasons why consumers are buying what they're buying.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm trying to say.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like, you know, one of those reasons is to support things you believe in, right?
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's what one for me as a consumer.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm buying skincare for every reason for, you know, in terms of health, but I'm also trying to support a cause or you know, something, a vision.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like no matter what, like what you're doing is just next level, period.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's amazing.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm just so impressed.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I just wanted to say that.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate that.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_02: And we have a lot to learn, and we can't wait to hear all about it from consumers.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then the the hero ingredient in our Restore Me collection is Hinochial, and we were introduced to that by Dr.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_02: Klein, um, our advising dermatologist.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason Hinochial is really special and powerful is it's a magnolia bark extract, and in the medical world, it's used to treat um skin cancer and burn victims because it has a regenerative effect at the DNA level of skin.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously, we're a skincare brand, not a not a you know, pharma brand.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we know that that's the power of this ingredient.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_02: So we were so excited when we learned about that and and incorporated it fully.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then the last piece of our of our model um is look, it's important that customers feel valued, and loyalty programs are really important.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I kind of wanted to rethink it a little bit.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so our loyalty program uh for purchases and and great positive planet behaviors, you receive um what we call stellar rewards.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_02: What are those?
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_02: They go into your account, they're basically points, and we are um marketing partners with three amazing nonprofits: the Ocean Conservancy, Five Gyres, and the Peconic Land Trust.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_02: And you can then convert your points into dollars and contribute them to any or all of our partners.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh! Oh my gosh, I love that.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: See, this is what the app is for.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's why we need the app.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: That's why you need the app, exactly.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_02: We need the app.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's brilliant, Stephanie.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, that again, I mean, I'm just overusing that word, but seriously, wow, that's like the coolest way for a consumer to see exactly like you know, like we put our money and we see our money being put into what we want.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I I love that.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and we've committed three percent of revenues.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um wow to that.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's that's solid.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's really solid.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_00: Then everybody listening out there, I hope, you know, I hope you've learned as much as I have from this episode because I I mean, we're gonna have to do a part two.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm just gonna put that out there.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_02: Delighted and so so happy to be here for part one and and to talk about all of this with you and and love what you do on Skin Anarchy.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to ask the background of the name, but um No, it's it's it's just anarchy everywhere you look in the in the industry, and that's really all it is.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: People ask me that all the time, and I'm like, I promise there's no deep meaning.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that when I looked at the industry, I was like, there's a lot of you know, there's a lot of stuff going on, and it's anarchy.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_00: Call it.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_00: But thank you so much, Stephanie.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_00: This was such an honor.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: I was truly my honor hosting you and learning about your vision.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this has been a very, like, you know, for me, a very personal episode.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: I've learned so much from you.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, everyone listening out there, I hope you've had a similar experience.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have, I want you to leave some comments, some questions for Stephanie's team in the um in the art for this episode.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely check out Ace of Air if you have not already.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: They launched um in January, so it's a very new brand, but they're doing amazing things, as you've heard.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, let us know um what you think of us and leave some feedbacks.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you again, Stephanie, and thank you so much for this opportunity.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hi guys, this is Ecta again.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_00: I just wanted to pop in and say I hope you really enjoy this episode.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: And also just to mention that we are so excited about our new sponsorship package, and um, we've been getting an immense response from it.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much to everybody who's responded.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: And also, if you know anybody or if you're a brand that is looking to sponsor us, please shoot us an email at skincareanarchy at gmail.com.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening to the episode, and I will be back next time.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: Please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: We are available on so many different platforms.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: So wherever it is that you're tuning in, just go hit subscribe.
• 56:42
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• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: This way, you're able to tune in to amazing insights from experts, brand founders, industry leaders, authors, all the wonderful people that we host.
• 56:53
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• 57:01
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• 57:04
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• 57:08
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• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're a reader and you love Medium blogs, check us out on Medium.
• 57:14
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• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really a great place for all of you science geeks out there that want to learn a little bit more.
• 57:24
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• 57:31
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• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.