Latest / Jeep Talk Show / Episode 1003 - Round Table

Transcript

Episode 1003 - Round Table · Jeep Talk Show

• 1:00:00
  All right, everybody. Welcome. This
• 1:00:02
  roundtable episode is brought to you by
• 1:00:04
  the Trails Off-Road.
• 1:00:06
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  service. That's a reminder to sign up for
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  Patreon, by the way.
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  Hey, I am John, and I'm
• 1:00:46
  going to be your host tonight for this
• 1:00:47
  roundtable episode.
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  Stepping in for Tony, who's going
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  to be out next week at Great EJS, having
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  an adventure with a lot
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  of members from the team
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  that are going to be out there, as well
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  as plenty of listeners
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  who've decided to make
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  the trek, the pilgrimage to Mecca, if you
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  would call it for
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  off-roaders, which is Moab.
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  So tonight's episode, we're getting a
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  little try run of this
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  kind of setup. And my first
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  question that's going to be on the list
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  is, how do you get
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  over being salty that your
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  friends are all going to EJS and you
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  aren't? That's not an
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  actual question, I'm sorry.
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  The questions we do have tonight, we are
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  going to try to get
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  through maybe four, but we'll
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  probably only get through three. The
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  first one up is going
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  to be, have you ever been
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  jeeping with a group that did something
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  that made you
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  uncomfortable, made you not want
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  to go back out jeeping with them again?
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  Question number two, do
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  you prefer a wider Jeep with
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  wider axle sets, more offset on your
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  wheels for better
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  stability? Or are you one of those
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  that likes to wheel narrow Jeeps for
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  their maneuverability?
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  Besides the Jeep you have
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  now, is there another model past or
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  present that you would
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  like to have, either to buy
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  or to build or whatever you want to do?
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  And if we get used to
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  get down to it, question
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  number four is when you're looking to buy
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  a used Jeep, what do
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  you consider red flags?
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  That's a common question we've covered a
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  couple of times on the
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  show. But it's an important
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  one. There's always information out
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  there, especially in
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  today's market with used car
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  prices being what they are starting to
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  come down. There may be a
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  lot of folks in the market.
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  So without further ado, I guess I want to
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  go ahead and bring in
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  everybody else. Hello,
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  zoom people. Hello. Hi, D. Oh, how's it
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  going? Sounds like Tony
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  is hiding. Sounds like Tony
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  is hiding as a zoom people today. Did you
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  get your honorary badge? Tony, let you in
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  to the, what is it? A certified zoom
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  people badge? It's kind
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  of like the YouTube one.
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  Yeah, but we wear it on our forehead. And
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  it's the mark of the beast.
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  You just get dumped really hard. That big
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  red mark on your face.
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  It's the red Jeep thing.
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  This is right up your alley. So everybody
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  ready for. And I don't
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  want to take over, but thanks
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  very much for doing this, John. It's
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  great because it's
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  always a concern. We do these
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  four episodes a week. It's always a
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  concern. Like what
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  happens? What if I'm out of power?
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  What if I'm sick or what if some family
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  member is sick? It's great to have a
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  backup. So thank you.
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  Sure. Not a problem. Always, always fun
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  to help out on the show. And if you're a,
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  if you'd have never heard me before, I'm
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  kind of working the
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  background on the team. I like to
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  just to focus on events and route
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  planning and stuff like that. So this is
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  a first time for me.
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  So you'll have to have to bear with me.
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  So everybody ready
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  for EJS? I know a lot of
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  folks are leaving. I think was this
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  weekend, the head out that
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  way and, and make that truck is,
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  is everybody ready doing last minute? I
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  noticed I don't see Rick
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  here. Right. He had the biggest
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  challenge. He was, yeah, he was going out
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  and meeting Steve and
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  everybody out in Arizona.
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  Oh, they're already on the way. Yeah.
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  Also, we don't know that
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  he's there. I haven't had any
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  reports or heard any reports from Steve.
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  So he may have wandered off
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  course. Cause he saw a body
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  of water. Well, Steve, he'd been bragging
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  so much about not
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  having a cracked window.
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  Yes. All that bragging paid off. He's got
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  a cracked window. Now
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  I saw that on, on discord. That was, that
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  was, I'm not going to say deserved
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  because that would be
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  mean, but we all saw it coming. Jack
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  would say it was deserved. He
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  would say, he'd say, be a man,
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  stick your head out the side. You don't
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  need to fold it down.
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  Right. That's what he would say.
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  Just fold it down. Man don't need a
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  windshield. Big
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  toothpick to get the bugs out.
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  All right. So let's get started with our
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  first question. So the
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  first question, as I said
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  earlier is, have you ever been jeeping
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  with a group that did
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  something that made you uncomfortable
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  or just made you not want to go out
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  jeeping with them again?
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  Oh yeah. I've had that happen a couple of
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  times. I was just in
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  a park and, you know,
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  I went out there by myself and a few
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  people, you know, we, I stopped for to
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  look at something and
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  a couple of guys came up and we started
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  talking and like, Hey, you
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  want to go with us? You know,
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  I was like, yeah, why not? And halfway
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  through one of the trails, one guy
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  started drinking and
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  another guy started throwing stuff out
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  his window. And I was like,
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  sorry, I just stopped my Jeep,
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  turned a different trail and just left
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  them. And I didn't meet up
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  with them at the end of the day.
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  You know, they were loading up their
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  Jeeps or whatever. And one
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  guy walked over, he goes,
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  Hey, why'd you leave? I said, cause I saw
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  you drinking and I saw
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  you throwing shit out the
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  window. You know, you're just, no,
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  that's, that's not me.
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  That's not the way I do it.
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  That's not the way you should do it. So
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  good for you. Yeah.
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  That's a hard thing to do with
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  peer pressure. Absolutely. Well, and so
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  yeah, this is Jeff from
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  Illinois. So I've been out with a
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  group and a similar experience. There's a
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  group from a big city near
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  me, without putting Steve
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  O's hometown down. And these guys are
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  ripping around and it's a
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  snowy, icy day on the trails.
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  And I'm watching them do some really
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  silly things. Like
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  somebody's going to get hurt.
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  People are out of their vehicles. The
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  vehicles are sliding around. And I was
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  with my wife and I just
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  said, we're not going, we're not going to
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  hang with that group.
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  And so we went out and just
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  did our own thing and enjoyed the woods
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  and the snow and
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  everything. But a couple hours later,
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  we're driving back and they'd flipped a
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  Jeep over and they were
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  trying to get it back over. And
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  they were just, it was not the kind of
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  group that I wanted to go
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  with. Now, on the other side of
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  that, I actually had a guy that I think I
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  chased off. We were
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  cleaning some trails with the Jeep
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  Jamboree. I may have told the story on
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  here before, but we were
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  cleaning trails on Jeep Jamboree
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  before the event. And there were three of
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  us out. We had some saws and some
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  clippers and we were just
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  climbing brush backs so you don't scratch
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  your Jeeps up as much and
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  just cleaning some trails.
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  And this guy came up out of nowhere and
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  was like, "Hey, can I follow you guys?
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  I don't know my way around." And we're
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  like, "Sure, you can drop in, but we're
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  going to start and stop."
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  So we drive some trails, we stop, we're
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  cleaning some brush. He
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  comes walking up because
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  you guys seem to know the park really
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  well. And I'm like,
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  "Why? We're trail guides
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  with Jeep Jamboree." So we get back in
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  the vehicles, we pull
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  up to another stop and he
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  comes up and he goes, "Well, just what
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  does it pay to be a
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  trail guide?" And I said,
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  I looked at him just stone cold and said,
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  "Have you ever been to prison?"
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  And then I said, "Have you
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  ever seen a grown man naked?"
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  We didn't see that guy for the rest of
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  the day. He was gone.
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  Please tell me you asked if something
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  with like Shirley, you
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  know that I'm just joking.
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  And he says, "Don't call me Shirley."
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  We did it. We kept a
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  straight face the whole time.
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  It was like...
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  Yeah.
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  Have you ever seen something naked or in?
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  We've been to prison. Do you win?
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  Hey, Chip, I got a
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  quick question for you.
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  Yes, sir.
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  Are you in California?
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  No.
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  Well, I mean, if you look at your video,
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  it looks like you're
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  in California because
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  everything is just jumping around.
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  I'm in...
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  Is that a quick phone?
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  Yeah.
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  I'm holding my phone. I just walked into
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  a hotel room and I didn't
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  get a chance to log on on my
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  computer. And I'm trying to hold my phone
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  up so that I'm in the
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  center of the screen instead of
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  down on this little desk in a hotel room.
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  So, Chip, I was quite sure that you ran
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  somebody off because you
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  said, "Hey, I got an extra bed in
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  my hotel room. You want
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  to come share it with me?"
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  Well, that usually doesn't end up with
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  negatives, but yeah, no.
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  Did you even think I was...
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  You said I was doing
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  the look on his face.
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  I thought you were going to talk about
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  bringing out that toilet and say, "You
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  got to pop a fly on."
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  Yes.
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  You know the work of camera?
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  Yeah.
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  I know the people. When I pull the porta
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  potty out, I usually
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  know that group pretty well.
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  Yeah, that was for the rest of us, John,
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  who felt awkward once he
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  pulled it out and sat down.
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  I need to get some stickers made up for
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  the five gallon bucket, the poop bucket,
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  and it says "Only Fans" on it.
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  Shady landing spot for that sticker.
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  Awesome. All right. So, again, the
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  question is, have you ever
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  been jeeping with a group
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  that did something that made you
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  uncomfortable or not want to stay with
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  them? Anyone else got a...
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  Does this Zoom room count?
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  We were on Moab Rim and this is, I don't
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  know, six or seven years ago.
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  And it was me and Richard Mick of Dan
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  Mick's guided Jeep tours.
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  We were running out Moab Rim
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  just for fun. We're both certified trail
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  guides. He's a trail guide in
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  Moab. And we ran all the way
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  up and on our way back down, there was an
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  XJ following relatively
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  close, probably three car
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  links back, and he decided to take the
• 1:10:38
  same line that I did. And I
• 1:10:41
  was in an extremely modified
• 1:10:43
  vehicle. He was not... He ended up
• 1:10:45
  rolling over. So Richard and I
• 1:10:48
  immediately got out,
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  ran back to see if we could offer
• 1:10:51
  assistance. And they had some video
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  cameras going, you know,
• 1:10:55
  the group. And the guys in the Jeep were
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  more worried about pulling
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  all of the beer cans back
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  into the Jeep than they were about
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  getting to safety. So at that
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  point, once we realized nobody
• 1:11:09
  was injured, we turned around and just
• 1:11:11
  hightailed it out of there because we
• 1:11:13
  didn't want to be in
• 1:11:13
  the videos and on the pictures of the
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  drunkards flipping their Jeep back over.
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  - That seems to be a theme. I mean, I
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  know we all like to hoist
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  back a few, and especially around
• 1:11:24
  the campfire, you know, there's
• 1:11:25
  definitely cause for it. But...
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  - But there's no time and a place. If
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  you're on the campfire, good
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  on you. If you're in danger
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  and driving on the trail with other
• 1:11:34
  people, if I catch you on my
• 1:11:37
  trail ride doing anything that
• 1:11:40
  can get you inebriated, whether it's a
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  gummy or a joint or beer or
• 1:11:44
  whatever, you're done. You're
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  off of my trail ride. -
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  Yeah, it's definitely...
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  - And it doesn't matter if it's my trail
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  ride. If I'm participating in it,
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  I will do everything in my power to get
• 1:11:56
  you kicked off and brought back to safety
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  because it's just not
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  safe for anybody else.
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  - It's not safe for the person drinking
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  it, they just don't know it.
• 1:12:07
  - Correct.
• 1:12:09
  - It seems to be a common thing that
• 1:12:12
  chases people away and kind of
• 1:12:13
  makes them not want to wheel.
• 1:12:14
  I think another one that I've had, I've
• 1:12:18
  been lucky enough where
• 1:12:18
  we haven't had it a lot
• 1:12:19
  personally, but I've seen it, is the peer
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  pressure to do obstacles that
• 1:12:24
  you're not comfortable with.
• 1:12:25
  So when you're out with the group and
• 1:12:27
  they start, you know, really pushing you
• 1:12:30
  to do something that
• 1:12:30
  you're not ready to do. You may not have
• 1:12:33
  the, you know, the seat
• 1:12:35
  time, the behind the wheel
• 1:12:37
  experience that you need to tackle a
• 1:12:38
  given obstacle,
• 1:12:39
  regardless of your Jeep can do it.
• 1:12:41
  So I've always been a fan of a huge Jeep
• 1:12:44
  not theirs. So you get
• 1:12:45
  to pick what you drive up
• 1:12:47
  and what you don't. And so definitely
• 1:12:51
  stay away from those
• 1:12:52
  groups. So anybody else got any...
• 1:12:55
  - So I got a comment on that one. If
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  you're on a trail ride
• 1:13:00
  and there is no, you know,
• 1:13:05
  you've been advised at the beginning of
• 1:13:07
  the trail, let's say it's something like,
• 1:13:08
  and I'll just drop that name again, but
• 1:13:11
  Moab Rim. It's one
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  way up and one way back.
• 1:13:14
  And you start at the bottom and you go
• 1:13:16
  up. If it was the
• 1:13:19
  middle Jeep of, you know,
• 1:13:21
  it was number 10 in a line of 20, do you
• 1:13:24
  still make them do the
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  obstacle or do you make everybody
• 1:13:27
  back down the trail when they knew that
• 1:13:30
  they had to have a certain
• 1:13:31
  amount of equipment to get up
• 1:13:32
  the trail in the first place? - That's a
• 1:13:35
  good question. I think,
• 1:13:36
  you know, personally, if they
• 1:13:39
  are... I would have them, if I could pull
• 1:13:42
  off the trail would be
• 1:13:43
  my... So I'd let everybody else
• 1:13:44
  buy before... - No, they're in a spot
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  like that, they can't,
• 1:13:47
  there's nowhere to pull off.
• 1:13:48
  So it's either everybody backs down or,
• 1:13:53
  you know, so that's a
• 1:13:55
  very hard situation to be in,
• 1:13:56
  because if you have somebody like that,
• 1:13:58
  what do you offer to
• 1:13:59
  because they're so nervous,
• 1:14:01
  do you offer one of the trail guides or
• 1:14:04
  one of the spotters to
• 1:14:05
  drive the vehicle up?
• 1:14:07
  - Well, so my answer to that is one, so
• 1:14:13
  at Moab, right, it's hard
• 1:14:14
  because people should have known
• 1:14:16
  or wherever you're at. If they knew that
• 1:14:18
  they didn't have the
• 1:14:19
  equipment to do the trail,
• 1:14:20
  it's kind of on them, but leaving no jeep
• 1:14:24
  behind, what I would do is
• 1:14:25
  take my mid gunner or my tail
• 1:14:27
  gunner and send them back out with that
• 1:14:30
  guy, get him back to a trail
• 1:14:32
  that he's either comfortable
• 1:14:33
  on or take him all the way back out and
• 1:14:35
  then come back and meet us
• 1:14:37
  without doing the whole...
• 1:14:38
  - Right, and that's why I say it's a very
• 1:14:40
  difficult situation
• 1:14:41
  because if you have to back
• 1:14:44
  10 vehicles down the trail, it's
• 1:14:50
  completely unsafe to back them
• 1:14:51
  down that particular section.
• 1:14:54
  So like a trail like
• 1:14:55
  that, you know, in your...
• 1:14:59
  When you do your trail meeting, you know,
• 1:15:01
  your driver's meeting
• 1:15:02
  before you go up the trail,
• 1:15:04
  if they agree to do the trail at that
• 1:15:07
  point, right, and their vehicle is
• 1:15:09
  perfectly capable of
• 1:15:10
  doing it, they just check it out on an
• 1:15:12
  obstacle where they're
• 1:15:14
  blocking so many people. The only
• 1:15:17
  way to get everybody else around them is
• 1:15:19
  to get past that obstacle.
• 1:15:21
  What do you do? Do you force
• 1:15:23
  them to do the obstacle or do you give
• 1:15:25
  them a different driver or
• 1:15:26
  do you put everybody behind
• 1:15:29
  them in danger and make them back up? - I
• 1:15:31
  think definitely you've got
• 1:15:32
  to offer to turn them into
• 1:15:34
  the passenger and have someone take their
• 1:15:36
  rig through to a point to
• 1:15:37
  where they're comfortable
• 1:15:38
  to get back in a driver's seat again. -
• 1:15:40
  Right. - Yeah, that's
• 1:15:41
  the way to figure it out.
• 1:15:43
  - Everything on a trail has limits,
• 1:15:47
  right? So sometimes you
• 1:15:50
  can't just pick one way out. You
• 1:15:53
  have to roll with the situation and make
• 1:15:56
  it the safest and most
• 1:15:57
  comfortable for everybody,
• 1:15:59
  even if it puts the trail leader or the
• 1:16:01
  mid-gunner or the tail gunner,
• 1:16:03
  you know, in a position where
• 1:16:04
  they have to wait for everybody else. But
• 1:16:07
  as a trail leader, you
• 1:16:08
  can't just tell somebody
• 1:16:10
  in certain trails, "Nope, turn around,"
• 1:16:14
  you know, because sometimes
• 1:16:15
  there is no turnaround until
• 1:16:16
  everybody's clear. - Now,
• 1:16:18
  I've never been to Moab or
• 1:16:22
  led a group, but just listening to what
• 1:16:25
  you're saying, I would have
• 1:16:27
  to say it's up to the trail
• 1:16:29
  leader to tell that person, "Your
• 1:16:32
  passenger, I will take your vehicle up
• 1:16:35
  this and get you past
• 1:16:38
  this part that you don't think you can do
• 1:16:40
  if the vehicle is
• 1:16:42
  capable." - Well, aren't you
• 1:16:43
  taking some liability at that point,
• 1:16:45
  though? - Yeah, well, you
• 1:16:47
  are, but as a trail leader,
• 1:16:49
  you're liable anyway, right? So if you're
• 1:16:52
  a certified trail
• 1:16:52
  guide, you're liable for your
• 1:16:55
  group, especially if you're charging. -
• 1:16:58
  If you're a certified trail
• 1:16:59
  guide, you can't accept that.
• 1:17:00
  - Once you accept the responsibility, you
• 1:17:01
  accept the... Yeah, once
• 1:17:03
  you accept the responsibility,
• 1:17:05
  you've accepted responsibility. So you
• 1:17:06
  have to make sure that
• 1:17:07
  people get through as safe and
• 1:17:09
  cleanly as possible. And I mean,
• 1:17:10
  honestly, I've done it. I've told people,
• 1:17:13
  you know, especially
• 1:17:13
  if they're that nervous or that freaked
• 1:17:15
  out, I've told them, you know, flat out,
• 1:17:17
  "Get out of the car.
• 1:17:18
  Somebody else will get it to a safe spot.
• 1:17:22
  Once everybody's by, turn
• 1:17:23
  them around and get them
• 1:17:25
  back down safely." But, you know,
• 1:17:28
  sometimes you have to weigh... As the
• 1:17:31
  trail leader, you have to
• 1:17:32
  weigh all of the options to make sure
• 1:17:34
  that everybody is as safe and as
• 1:17:35
  comfortable as possible.
• 1:17:37
  I'm not gonna put other people in danger
• 1:17:39
  for one person. - Right. But
• 1:17:42
  I think that it goes back to
• 1:17:43
  part of the question, right, which was,
• 1:17:45
  "Would you go wheeling with that group
• 1:17:47
  again?" I'm assuming
• 1:17:48
  that that person who didn't want to go up
• 1:17:50
  that obstacle realized that
• 1:17:52
  group is probably wheeling
• 1:17:53
  a little more advanced than they are. -
• 1:17:56
  Yeah, and... And because I've gone with a
• 1:17:59
  lot of people who are
• 1:18:01
  novices but have very well-built rigs,
• 1:18:03
  you know, because that's
• 1:18:04
  kind of the name of the game in
• 1:18:06
  today's world. Surprisingly, a lot of
• 1:18:09
  those people who are just completely
• 1:18:11
  freaked out and so scared
• 1:18:12
  that they can't physically drive up
• 1:18:15
  something, after another
• 1:18:17
  hour or so on the trail, they
• 1:18:18
  realize how much more capable their
• 1:18:20
  vehicle is and they ease up, right? They
• 1:18:22
  get more comfortable.
• 1:18:23
  So I would never... Like, there's people
• 1:18:26
  I don't want to wheel with
• 1:18:27
  because I know that they're
• 1:18:29
  just dangerous. But for novices, I think
• 1:18:32
  it's the best thing in the
• 1:18:33
  world to be able to teach them
• 1:18:34
  the capability of their vehicle and how
• 1:18:36
  easy some of this stuff is.
• 1:18:38
  So even if they're scared and
• 1:18:39
  freaked out and nervous and don't want to
• 1:18:40
  do something and don't
• 1:18:41
  want to do something, once
• 1:18:42
  you coax them through it, once you get on
• 1:18:46
  their level and make it easier for them,
• 1:18:50
  they usually tend to turn into really
• 1:18:52
  good people and they respect you for
• 1:18:56
  being as professional and kind and
• 1:18:59
  helpful as you can be. I mean, I'm sure
• 1:19:01
  Chip's gone through that.
• 1:19:03
  - Yeah, when you spot somebody through
• 1:19:05
  some obstacle that they
• 1:19:06
  don't think there's any way
• 1:19:07
  in hell that they can do, but you know
• 1:19:09
  their jeep's capable and
• 1:19:11
  you know as long as they
• 1:19:14
  don't mash on the skinny pedal or do
• 1:19:16
  something crazy, you take it
• 1:19:18
  slow. And most of the time,
• 1:19:20
  when I'm wheeling with the groups I'm
• 1:19:22
  doing, it's a beginner group
• 1:19:23
  or at best an intermediate.
• 1:19:26
  And so I've got them in four low, first
• 1:19:30
  gear, and we're just crawling
• 1:19:33
  and we're going to not move.
• 1:19:34
  We're not going up six foot tall stone
• 1:19:39
  wall faces. We're
• 1:19:41
  going over rocks that are
• 1:19:44
  enough that they could get turtled on,
• 1:19:46
  but if we get them through the line,
• 1:19:48
  they're going to be okay. Now there's a
• 1:19:49
  few places if they bob, but
• 1:19:51
  we're going so slow that I can
• 1:19:52
  stop them before they get in trouble. And
• 1:19:54
  the best part is as a leader,
• 1:19:56
  if you can get somebody with
• 1:19:58
  a little experience behind you, so
• 1:20:00
  there's two jeeps that have just gone
• 1:20:01
  through the obstacle,
• 1:20:02
  the rest of the jeeps are seen, but the
• 1:20:04
  other guys are making
• 1:20:05
  it, we can make it too.
• 1:20:07
  And they're confident. Yeah, the best
• 1:20:09
  thing, you know, and I mean
• 1:20:11
  that goes to just being a good
• 1:20:13
  trail leader. You know, when you do your
• 1:20:14
  driver's meeting, you figure
• 1:20:16
  out the skill level of each
• 1:20:17
  individual person and you put somebody
• 1:20:18
  confident in front of them, somebody
• 1:20:20
  confident behind them,
• 1:20:21
  right? If it's the least confident
• 1:20:23
  person, put them right
• 1:20:24
  behind you, right? That way you're
• 1:20:28
  always hands on. So that's just a good
• 1:20:30
  sign of a good trail leader.
• 1:20:32
  So, but it's really important
• 1:20:34
  etiquette too, right? If it's your job,
• 1:20:37
  especially if you're
• 1:20:38
  leading that trail to make sure
• 1:20:39
  everybody's in the right position instead
• 1:20:41
  of just, even, it doesn't matter if
• 1:20:43
  you've got 50 trails
• 1:20:44
  or 50 rigs on your trail, it's still your
• 1:20:47
  job to assess them all and
• 1:20:48
  make sure everybody's in the
• 1:20:49
  right spot. And if, I mean, clearly for
• 1:20:52
  anybody going to, to EJS,
• 1:20:55
  you'll get on some of those
• 1:20:55
  trails and you'll realize that some trail
• 1:20:58
  leaders really aren't trail
• 1:20:59
  leaders, right? They're just
• 1:21:01
  somebody who should be there. But it's
• 1:21:03
  just like going to work,
• 1:21:04
  right? There's bosses that are
• 1:21:05
  definitely not leaders, right? So... I
• 1:21:08
  think when you're looking at
• 1:21:10
  the question about, you know,
• 1:21:11
  making you uncomfortable, I think in
• 1:21:13
  those situations, if
• 1:21:14
  you've got a good trail leader,
• 1:21:16
  they should be able to calm you down and
• 1:21:18
  make you comfortable and
• 1:21:19
  help you get through whatever
• 1:21:20
  it is. If they are unable to do that and
• 1:21:23
  they're screaming at
• 1:21:24
  you and they're like,
• 1:21:24
  put your tire here. And then they're
• 1:21:26
  saying, send it and kind
• 1:21:28
  of barking orders at you.
• 1:21:30
  You know, to me, that's, I think that's
• 1:21:32
  what I'm really asking about here.
• 1:21:34
  Because I think that,
• 1:21:35
  and that's also what I was talking about
• 1:21:36
  when I mentioned, you know,
• 1:21:38
  people trying to force you
• 1:21:38
  to do something maybe that, you know,
• 1:21:40
  that you're not comfortable
• 1:21:40
  with. Okay, I got you. You're not
• 1:21:42
  sad. So if you've got a good trail leader
• 1:21:44
  on those kinds of
• 1:21:45
  obstacles, barring the total freeze
• 1:21:47
  effect, but they should be able to put
• 1:21:49
  you at ease. Because, you know, being a
• 1:21:51
  good trail leader is
• 1:21:52
  not always just about knowing the line
• 1:21:53
  through the obstacle. It's
• 1:21:54
  being able to read the person
• 1:21:55
  behind the wheel as well and understand
• 1:21:57
  kind of, you know, where are
• 1:21:59
  they going to freak out and
• 1:22:01
  where are they going to be able to excel?
• 1:22:03
  Can I get them on a line
• 1:22:04
  that can help them build
• 1:22:05
  confidence, but it's also not going to
• 1:22:07
  give them body damage,
• 1:22:08
  right? So, all right, let's, let's
• 1:22:12
  move on to question number two. So I
• 1:22:13
  think we've got another good
• 1:22:14
  one here. So I'm sure Greg will
• 1:22:16
  have plenty to say on this one as well.
• 1:22:19
  Question number two. Do you prefer a
• 1:22:21
  wider Jeep for stability
• 1:22:23
  with wide axle sets, big offset? Or do
• 1:22:26
  you want a narrow setup for
• 1:22:29
  maneuverability on tight trails?
• 1:22:31
  And I know a lot of this probably depends
• 1:22:32
  on where you're
• 1:22:33
  wheeling, what kind of terrain,
• 1:22:34
  what are you up against? But is there a
• 1:22:36
  general rule or something,
• 1:22:38
  a personal preference that
• 1:22:39
  anyone has? This is Larry from St. Louis
• 1:22:44
  again. I would say for me,
• 1:22:45
  if I was doing more of off
• 1:22:47
  camber type stuff, the wider rig would be
• 1:22:51
  more my preference. If I was going
• 1:22:52
  through the, I say if
• 1:22:54
  I was down in the Ozarks where I'm going
• 1:22:56
  to have to go through trees and very
• 1:22:58
  narrow trails, well,
• 1:22:59
  then obviously the narrower rig right
• 1:23:01
  there would be more the preference. I
• 1:23:04
  guess it just depends on
• 1:23:05
  where your wheeling is the overall there
• 1:23:09
  for me. Yeah, that's
• 1:23:11
  why my rig's 21 feet wide.
• 1:23:14
  I hate off camber. So I don't know which,
• 1:23:20
  you know, you hear a lot
• 1:23:22
  of advantages about the
• 1:23:23
  narrow rigs beyond just, you know,
• 1:23:25
  maneuverability or the smaller
• 1:23:27
  footprint, you know, helps to
• 1:23:30
  get over some terrain where you're not
• 1:23:31
  trying to, you can put your
• 1:23:33
  wheels in places where you
• 1:23:35
  can't with the wider path. So especially
• 1:23:38
  if you're trying to pick
• 1:23:39
  your way through a rock,
• 1:23:39
  it may not necessarily be like a tight
• 1:23:41
  narrow trail, but the
• 1:23:43
  obstacle itself, you attack it
• 1:23:44
  a lot differently with the narrow tracks.
• 1:23:47
  I'm going to twist it
• 1:23:48
  up a little bit, John.
• 1:23:50
  Not necessarily. I'm going to twist it up
• 1:23:53
  a little bit. Not
• 1:23:55
  necessarily width, but length.
• 1:23:58
  I started in a two door YJ and now I got
• 1:24:03
  my JKU. I prefer the JKU over the YJ.
• 1:24:09
  The two door to me was very tippy and
• 1:24:13
  squirrely at times to where the JKU
• 1:24:17
  feels more stable, feels
• 1:24:19
  more in place on the trail.
• 1:24:23
  Well, and 100% the YJ, the wheelbase on
• 1:24:31
  the YJ is much shorter, but it's a
• 1:24:33
  completely different
• 1:24:33
  suspension that the JKU 100% is a much
• 1:24:37
  more stable platform,
• 1:24:39
  wider axles, more wheelbase,
• 1:24:42
  a modern suspension. But you can have a
• 1:24:47
  YJ sized vehicle and
• 1:24:49
  have it just as planted.
• 1:24:51
  It's just the suspension is what makes
• 1:24:54
  the difference compared to what you have.
• 1:24:57
  I'm just speaking from my experience.
• 1:25:00
  Yeah. Oh no, 100%. So, but look at some
• 1:25:04
  of the guys with a little Willys,
• 1:25:06
  right? They've got an 80 inch wheelbase
• 1:25:07
  and they do things
• 1:25:08
  that a JKU can never do.
• 1:25:11
  The water was cold, man.
• 1:25:14
  I was waiting. I thought Tony, I thought
• 1:25:16
  it was going to be chip
• 1:25:16
  that came up with that joke,
• 1:25:18
  but Tony, but yeah, so there's, I think,
• 1:25:24
  I think the best way,
• 1:25:25
  and it's my opinion,
• 1:25:27
  the best driver modifies or can, you
• 1:25:31
  know, builds their
• 1:25:32
  vehicle the way that they want.
• 1:25:34
  Um, cause just like that, you can see a
• 1:25:36
  bone stock, 1945 Willys
• 1:25:39
  and it'll work circles
• 1:25:41
  around a brand new $200,000 JL as long as
• 1:25:45
  it has the right driver. So with it, um,
• 1:25:50
  you know, I guess it really goes for your
• 1:25:52
  environment length,
• 1:25:52
  same thing. Um, but the
• 1:25:54
  biggest, I think the biggest one is the
• 1:25:56
  driver mod, the driver
• 1:25:57
  mod is the most important,
• 1:25:59
  because you can put a novice in a JLU and
• 1:26:04
  they'll do great. And
• 1:26:05
  you can put, you know,
• 1:26:06
  somebody who's exceptionally skilled in
• 1:26:08
  something as archaic as an original
• 1:26:10
  Willys and they'll walk
• 1:26:11
  circles around a $200,000 JL. So the
• 1:26:17
  driver mod, I think is the most
• 1:26:18
  important. And I think that
• 1:26:19
  the width and or length should really be
• 1:26:21
  based. I mean, it's, it's
• 1:26:24
  what the driver loves and what
• 1:26:25
  the driver's best at because that's what
• 1:26:28
  little itty bitty short
• 1:26:28
  wheel basis can go up some
• 1:26:30
  extreme inclines if they know how to
• 1:26:31
  drive. The stability factor.
• 1:26:35
  I mean, I've driven my wife's
• 1:26:37
  JKU and now JLU off-road and I, it's,
• 1:26:41
  it's a lot
• 1:26:41
  potentially more stable vehicle.
• 1:26:45
  My two door JK is built pretty well. Now
• 1:26:49
  you were asking about
• 1:26:50
  wide stance versus, and I,
• 1:26:52
  I think there's a challenge there too is
• 1:26:55
  where are you wheeling?
• 1:26:56
  What are you wanting to do?
• 1:26:57
  And how many people do you want to take
• 1:26:59
  with you? Do you have
• 1:26:59
  kids that you want to take?
• 1:27:01
  I mean, the JKs use the, the, the four
• 1:27:04
  doors are great vehicles and they're very
• 1:27:06
  extremely capable with their wheel base
• 1:27:08
  off-road on some obstacles, on other
• 1:27:11
  obstacles, and especially
• 1:27:12
  in temp, tight timber turns or, or tight
• 1:27:15
  trails. My two door is more
• 1:27:17
  capable, but I also, I don't,
• 1:27:20
  I mean, I'm running 12 and a half inch
• 1:27:22
  wide tires. I don't have any
• 1:27:24
  spacers in, I've got Dana 44s.
• 1:27:26
  So I don't consider myself extremely
• 1:27:28
  wide. If you start going to Dana 60s and
• 1:27:30
  you've got spacers out
• 1:27:31
  there and you've got 13 and a half inch
• 1:27:33
  tires, you've got a very wide track
• 1:27:36
  vehicle. So if you're
• 1:27:37
  going off-road in a place that has a lot
• 1:27:39
  of side by side trails and
• 1:27:41
  you want to go on some of those
• 1:27:43
  and Jeeps don't run them much and you're
• 1:27:45
  running on some really
• 1:27:46
  narrow, tight trails.
• 1:27:47
  So what are you doing with your Jeep?
• 1:27:49
  Where do you want to go? Who
• 1:27:50
  do you want to take with you?
• 1:27:51
  And really it's all personal preference.
• 1:27:53
  And like Greg was
• 1:27:55
  saying, you know, there's,
• 1:27:56
  there's things that a Willys can do or a
• 1:27:58
  CJ can do or whatever that,
• 1:28:00
  that a JKU or maybe a gladiator
• 1:28:03
  would struggle and vice versa. Well,
• 1:28:06
  speaking of someone who's kind of maybe
• 1:28:08
  not quite as extreme
• 1:28:09
  from the narrow to the wide. So Tony, the
• 1:28:11
  XJ, that's narrower than
• 1:28:13
  the gladiator that you're
• 1:28:14
  wheeling now, right? I don't know. Yes.
• 1:28:17
  Yes, it is. Yes. So does the
• 1:28:21
  gladiator feel more stable?
• 1:28:22
  I mean, I know I don't think you've had
• 1:28:23
  the XJ on the hidden falls trails. I
• 1:28:25
  can't remember if you,
• 1:28:26
  you got the right. Yeah, I've had it out
• 1:28:28
  there. It was fine. But I
• 1:28:30
  don't think I did anything as
• 1:28:32
  aggressive as what I've done with the
• 1:28:34
  gladiator. You guys know when I go out
• 1:28:36
  there, I'll ask Bill
• 1:28:37
  or whoever's in front of me, is this
• 1:28:39
  something you guys think I can do? I'm
• 1:28:42
  willing to give it a try.
• 1:28:44
  But I don't have a six inch ledge on
• 1:28:47
  metal mesh and you're
• 1:28:50
  like, can I drive up that?
• 1:28:51
  Oh, absolutely. I'm going to ask. I'd
• 1:28:55
  rather accomplish it
• 1:28:56
  than break something in the
• 1:28:57
  process of me trying to be a badass. It's
• 1:29:00
  also that experience
• 1:29:02
  comes. I feel like if you start
• 1:29:05
  wheeling or your first rig that you have
• 1:29:08
  is a little bit wider and
• 1:29:09
  let's face it, if you have
• 1:29:10
  a jail or a JK, those are wide Jeeps
• 1:29:13
  compared to TJs and all the other
• 1:29:15
  previous generations or
• 1:29:16
  whatever. So if you started wheeling,
• 1:29:18
  that was kind of where
• 1:29:19
  you got your cut your teeth,
• 1:29:21
  so to speak. That may be what you prefer
• 1:29:23
  on that. So that's, I was
• 1:29:26
  curious because you had the XJ
• 1:29:27
  first. I know that's a narrower track
• 1:29:29
  than the gladiator you have
• 1:29:30
  now. Yeah, very well could
• 1:29:32
  be. I really haven't noticed, but I'll
• 1:29:35
  say this, doing metal mesh here last
• 1:29:37
  year, the Henderson run,
• 1:29:39
  and I'll remind you Greg and everybody
• 1:29:41
  else that when I was at that
• 1:29:43
  Monday night thing and I was
• 1:29:45
  talking about telling people I'm supposed
• 1:29:47
  to go on metal masher, one
• 1:29:49
  person said, really? And I think
• 1:29:52
  we talked about what I was driving and I
• 1:29:54
  said, well, Greg said I
• 1:29:54
  could go that it'd be, I'd be
• 1:29:56
  just fine. And he was like, well, is Greg
• 1:29:58
  a friend of yours? Because it
• 1:30:01
  was like, it was like, yeah,
• 1:30:03
  I don't, I don't know. I wouldn't go.
• 1:30:05
  It's metal masher. And the
• 1:30:06
  only problem, and I was really
• 1:30:07
  happy by the time I got up there to the
• 1:30:09
  top that the gladiator did
• 1:30:11
  so well. And it was a great
• 1:30:13
  learning experience. But then again, when
• 1:30:15
  I was left by myself and I
• 1:30:17
  wasn't following somebody
• 1:30:18
  else's line, I couldn't get up over the,
• 1:30:20
  over the little, little
• 1:30:21
  ledge. And I had done stuff like
• 1:30:23
  that many times before. And then I backed
• 1:30:24
  up and I backed into that
• 1:30:25
  little tree and taken out of
• 1:30:27
  the tail light. So building confidence is
• 1:30:30
  good, but sometimes it
• 1:30:31
  can, it can hurt you.
• 1:30:32
  Yeah. Absolutely. It's, it's building
• 1:30:39
  confidence. Well, I mean, for my hurt
• 1:30:42
  you, if you overdrive
• 1:30:43
  what you, what you have, then yeah,
• 1:30:47
  definitely you can, you can
• 1:30:48
  get yourself into trouble.
• 1:30:49
  I think one of the biggest thing I've
• 1:30:51
  heard is when you go to
• 1:30:52
  Moab and this is speaking for
• 1:30:53
  somebody who has never been to Moab and
• 1:30:55
  you get your, your tires on
• 1:30:57
  those rocks that have magic
• 1:30:58
  powers that just kind of suck you to the
• 1:31:01
  trail and then you come
• 1:31:02
  back and you're heading out to
• 1:31:04
  your local park or whatever and they
• 1:31:06
  don't stick. That's, that's a, that's
• 1:31:09
  where your confidence can
• 1:31:11
  uh, can keep built up pretty big in Moab
• 1:31:13
  and some crashing down.
• 1:31:15
  You get back onto your park.
• 1:31:16
  Well, you guys helped me so much at
• 1:31:18
  Hidden Falls. I mean, it, the gladiators
• 1:31:20
  done wonderful out there.
• 1:31:22
  I mean, uh, there was other gladiators
• 1:31:23
  there that were having
• 1:31:24
  issues getting up and over stuff
• 1:31:26
  that I was able to go right up. I mean,
• 1:31:28
  you guys were spotting, uh,
• 1:31:29
  you told me where to go and all
• 1:31:31
  I had to do is work the pedal, uh, and
• 1:31:33
  pay attention to what you
• 1:31:34
  guys were telling me and
• 1:31:35
  the gladiator did wonderful. So I'm still
• 1:31:38
  learning. Uh, I mean, I
• 1:31:39
  just haven't wheeled enough to
• 1:31:40
  actually know the things well enough, but
• 1:31:42
  I'm more than willing to
• 1:31:44
  give it a try and learn.
• 1:31:45
  But I think that where this question kind
• 1:31:47
  of dovetails into the last question that
• 1:31:50
  I think it really depends on where you
• 1:31:52
  started and what are, what,
• 1:31:54
  what raise you have to wheel
• 1:31:56
  to know the difference in the longer,
• 1:31:58
  narrower, you know, all those things, you
• 1:32:02
  know, play a big part of it.
• 1:32:07
  I think knowing having that, uh, that
• 1:32:09
  knowledge of, of what each one provides
• 1:32:12
  as a benefit and a con
• 1:32:14
  is also important. Absolutely. All right.
• 1:32:19
  Um, let's move on to
• 1:32:20
  question number three here.
• 1:32:22
  So, you know, we may actually get through
• 1:32:23
  these all four questions. So, um,
• 1:32:25
  question number three,
• 1:32:27
  besides the Jeep you have now, is there
• 1:32:30
  another model past or
• 1:32:32
  present you would like to have?
• 1:32:34
  And I want to start this one off because
• 1:32:35
  my, um, dream overland
• 1:32:39
  style rig or camping rig,
• 1:32:40
  one I think would be perfect for Colorado
• 1:32:42
  is I've always loved the,
• 1:32:44
  it's the early 70s Cherokee
• 1:32:46
  chiefs, the two doors, um, the ones with
• 1:32:49
  the tend and grill. So
• 1:32:50
  they have the, uh, the round
• 1:32:51
  headlights. Um, I've always thought that
• 1:32:54
  was just an amazing rig. I know that
• 1:32:56
  they're going for some
• 1:32:57
  really stupid money now, but I've always,
• 1:33:00
  always loved the idea of
• 1:33:01
  getting one of those and slapping
• 1:33:03
  a modern drive chain and, uh, and setting
• 1:33:05
  that one up for, for long
• 1:33:06
  trips like out to Colorado and
• 1:33:08
  Arizona and Moab places like that. So
• 1:33:11
  it's a lot different
• 1:33:12
  than my Wrangler, which is,
• 1:33:13
  which is more for fun. I guess it's not
• 1:33:16
  really a good camping rig.
• 1:33:21
  Anyone else got a, got a Jeep? I've
• 1:33:24
  always wanted to build an old Jeepster.
• 1:33:27
  I've always liked those.
• 1:33:29
  I thought it always sort of be neat to
• 1:33:30
  have one build up to
• 1:33:32
  a, I'll say a moderate
• 1:33:35
  wheeling rig, if you will, not go crazy
• 1:33:38
  with it, but, uh, kind of
• 1:33:40
  update one a little bit.
• 1:33:44
  So I've had, I've had a plethora of
• 1:33:47
  Jeeps, um, you know, to kind
• 1:33:51
  of break it down, I've had a
• 1:33:52
  wheelies, I've had three Jeepsters, I've
• 1:33:56
  had two Jay trucks.
• 1:33:58
  So Jay 20 and a Jay 10.
• 1:33:59
  I currently own a Jay 20 and a Cherokee
• 1:34:03
  and a TJ turned into a Brute and two YJs.
• 1:34:09
  I've owned a JK. I've
• 1:34:11
  driven a lot of JLs. Um,
• 1:34:16
  I think total I've had 26 Jeeps. So I've
• 1:34:18
  had a lot. Um, I would say
• 1:34:22
  the one that I want the most
• 1:34:24
  again would be another wheelies. The flat
• 1:34:27
  fender wheelies was by far
• 1:34:29
  the funnest Jeep I ever owned.
• 1:34:32
  It was light. It was small. You can chuck
• 1:34:34
  it on a trailer. You can
• 1:34:36
  chuck three of them sideways
• 1:34:37
  on a trailer. Um, but it did things that
• 1:34:41
  amazed you. And I mean, yeah, for
• 1:34:45
  overlanding, I mean,
• 1:34:46
  if you're, if you're wanting to overland
• 1:34:48
  with a tent and a water
• 1:34:49
  bottle, good for you. Um, but
• 1:34:52
  the most fun I've ever had in a Jeep is
• 1:34:55
  the stock wheelies. Now, the
• 1:34:57
  one that I want to build the
• 1:34:58
  most again is the Jay 20 in my backyard.
• 1:35:02
  Um, it's, it's kind of, you
• 1:35:03
  know, it's the same front end
• 1:35:04
  and it's the same power plant as that
• 1:35:07
  Cherokee chief that you love. Um, you
• 1:35:11
  know, so it's a full
• 1:35:12
  size Jeep, but it is a pickup truck. And
• 1:35:14
  I think that would be a
• 1:35:15
  really cool tow rig and overland
• 1:35:17
  rig would be to take my Jay 20 and, and
• 1:35:20
  turn it into something
• 1:35:21
  special. Um, you know, no lift
• 1:35:23
  37, so a Hemi, a couple other goodies.
• 1:35:25
  Um, but if, if money was
• 1:35:30
  no object and I could just,
• 1:35:31
  you know, go outside and buy whatever I
• 1:35:33
  wanted, I would buy a stock
• 1:35:35
  MB. So I'd buy a stock, um,
• 1:35:39
  military wheelies from the forties. And
• 1:35:45
  I'd do it everywhere.
• 1:35:46
  So you wouldn't modify it?
• 1:35:50
  Um, I would modify it a little bit. Um, I
• 1:35:54
  actually want to take one,
• 1:35:55
  like I'm dying to take one and
• 1:35:58
  there was a prototype wheelies built, uh,
• 1:36:02
  in the late forties and
• 1:36:04
  it was called the MLW.
• 1:36:07
  Um, it was, the designation was T 24, but
• 1:36:11
  they only built about 20, I
• 1:36:12
  think they built 21 of them,
• 1:36:13
  um, in over the course of a couple of
• 1:36:16
  years. So it was a
• 1:36:17
  wheelies with 109 inch wheel base
• 1:36:20
  and it had 36 and a half inch tires stock
• 1:36:23
  with no lift. So it
• 1:36:25
  essentially had a high line kit and
• 1:36:27
  additional wheel base. And in a perfect
• 1:36:30
  world, I'll get another
• 1:36:31
  wheelies and I'll duplicate that
• 1:36:32
  build. Um, but I'd make it a little more
• 1:36:35
  modern. So I'd put 37s on
• 1:36:36
  it instead of 36 and a half.
• 1:36:39
  Other than that, yeah, I wouldn't change
• 1:36:41
  a thing. I would build it
• 1:36:41
  almost to spec of how they built
• 1:36:43
  it in 1948. That would be my dream ring.
• 1:36:50
  Oh, uh, no desire. And you
• 1:36:52
  can Google it. It's called a
• 1:36:53
  T 24 or an MLW. Oh, desire and a fuel
• 1:36:57
  injected or put lockers
• 1:36:59
  in nothing like that. Um,
• 1:37:05
  I don't know. Right. I mean, there's,
• 1:37:07
  there's something to be said
• 1:37:07
  about that simple old power
• 1:37:09
  plant, but a hundred percent, uh,
• 1:37:13
  putting, I like, if, if it
• 1:37:15
  was a perfect world, yeah,
• 1:37:16
  I would get Ford nine inch axles front
• 1:37:17
  and rear, they'd get 37s. We'd get a
• 1:37:21
  coyote. So it would get
• 1:37:23
  the Ford engine. And I, in a real perfect
• 1:37:26
  world, I'd build it out of
• 1:37:27
  the MB, which was the Ford
• 1:37:28
  because the only two companies that ever
• 1:37:30
  built Jeeps were Jeep or
• 1:37:33
  well, Kaiser, AMC, blah, blah,
• 1:37:35
  blah, blah, but they were always called a
• 1:37:36
  Jeep and Ford. So putting a
• 1:37:39
  Chevy motor in a Jeep is just
• 1:37:40
  blasphemy and I wouldn't do it, but I
• 1:37:44
  think the coyote would be
• 1:37:45
  pretty cool because you know,
• 1:37:46
  horsepower to weight ratio, very nice.
• 1:37:48
  Um, it's a wide engine, but
• 1:37:50
  it fits better than a Hemi.
• 1:37:52
  So perfect world. That's what I built.
• 1:37:55
  So, uh, would you put
• 1:37:56
  a roll bar on the MB
• 1:37:57
  or only if required by where
• 1:37:59
  you were going wheeling? Um,
• 1:38:03
  if I was driving a stock one, no, I
• 1:38:05
  wouldn't put a roll bar on it.
• 1:38:07
  If I built, if I built that dream rig,
• 1:38:10
  the MLW, um, I wouldn't
• 1:38:13
  put a roll cage on it.
• 1:38:14
  Cause I would just do stupid, stupid,
• 1:38:16
  stupid shit in it. Well, I was just
• 1:38:18
  thinking that really narrow
• 1:38:20
  track would also have to be very much
• 1:38:23
  widened, right? I mean,
• 1:38:24
  having it that narrow with that
• 1:38:25
  shorter wheelbase and that much power, it
• 1:38:28
  seems like that'd be, so the ML, the ML
• 1:38:31
  we use 109 inch wheelbase, which is
• 1:38:34
  longer than a TJ unlimited,
• 1:38:36
  right? So TJ unlimited is 104 inch
• 1:38:38
  wheelbase. Um, so no, I wouldn't, I
• 1:38:42
  wouldn't widen it very much at
• 1:38:43
  all. Um, driving, driving wheelies around
• 1:38:47
  being, you know, they only
• 1:38:49
  have a, the axle is what 50
• 1:38:51
  inches wide where a TJ 64 and a JK is 66
• 1:38:56
  and a JL is almost 68. Um, I'd
• 1:39:00
  keep that 50 inch wide wheel,
• 1:39:02
  you know, axle, I'd keep it nice and
• 1:39:03
  narrow, um, put the appropriate size
• 1:39:05
  tires on it. So I'd have
• 1:39:06
  a little tiny bit more width, but not
• 1:39:09
  much real spacers. No, you
• 1:39:16
  could do wheel spacers, but I
• 1:39:17
  wouldn't know. Nor would I. So if you're
• 1:39:23
  talking about a Jeep that
• 1:39:24
  you'd like to have, I would like
• 1:39:26
  to have a JT with a bob to bed. Oh,
• 1:39:30
  that's nice. Yeah. And a V8
• 1:39:33
  power plan. Not necessarily,
• 1:39:38
  not necessarily a 392. My favorite motors
• 1:39:41
  are 454. Well, this is a good
• 1:39:45
  question. Uh, do you need a,
• 1:39:47
  high horsepower, high torque V8 or an
• 1:39:51
  off-road vehicle? Because I
• 1:39:53
  think we sure like it. We're
• 1:39:55
  red bloodied American men. Absolutely.
• 1:39:57
  But I mean, that's more
• 1:39:58
  on an on road type thing,
• 1:40:01
  not an off-road thing. Or, you know, you
• 1:40:03
  use that horsepower and
• 1:40:04
  torque off-road. You can now I'm
• 1:40:08
  geared real low in my JKU and I like the
• 1:40:11
  low gearing. So if I were
• 1:40:13
  to get the JT with Bob Bet,
• 1:40:15
  I definitely put an Atlas in it with a
• 1:40:17
  real stupid little crawler
• 1:40:19
  ratio. Cause I like crawling super
• 1:40:22
  slow. I love my rule crawler and that
• 1:40:24
  thing has been the best
• 1:40:25
  purchase I've made for my Jeep.
• 1:40:28
  So that'll be, I think it's time to cue
• 1:40:30
  Greg. Cause I know this is,
• 1:40:31
  you just hit one of his button
• 1:40:32
  issues that he likes to see red and have
• 1:40:35
  to go. So go ahead, red or
• 1:40:36
  go ahead. Greg seat. Look,
• 1:40:38
  I said red. That's what he's seeing. I'm
• 1:40:40
  about the Atlas and how the
• 1:40:42
  gear ratio should be no deeper
• 1:40:43
  than three to one. We should ask Steve,
• 1:40:46
  what would it be like to
• 1:40:47
  wheel a JL with a non-cracked
• 1:40:49
  window? Now that he's here. I can't
• 1:40:54
  forget the bird poop. Oh
• 1:40:58
  God. No, I mean, it's personal
• 1:41:01
  preference. If he wants to go super low,
• 1:41:04
  more power to him, right?
• 1:41:05
  It's just, I don't recommend
• 1:41:07
  it. Atlas doesn't recommend it. Um, you
• 1:41:11
  know, and the only reason I don't
• 1:41:12
  recommend it is cause
• 1:41:13
  Atlas doesn't recommend it. Um, you know,
• 1:41:16
  especially if he's got a
• 1:41:17
  big giant fire breathing
• 1:41:18
  V8 that makes horsepower, right? The
• 1:41:19
  really low gears are designed
• 1:41:22
  for things with no horsepower.
• 1:41:23
  They're not designed for things that have
• 1:41:24
  torque. So, you know, if he,
• 1:41:27
  if he likes low four to one
• 1:41:28
  is great. If he wants to go a little
• 1:41:30
  lower again, it's his, he can
• 1:41:32
  do it. Um, but you would, you
• 1:41:35
  don't get the benefit when you have that
• 1:41:36
  horsepower and torque. Well, I mean,
• 1:41:38
  there's a concern about
• 1:41:39
  going too low because of a slow when
• 1:41:41
  everybody else down on
• 1:41:42
  the trail, didn't there?
• 1:41:43
  Well, then he just puts it in four highs.
• 1:41:45
  Got all that horsepower
• 1:41:45
  and torque. Who cares?
• 1:41:50
  Bob bed you were talking about just so
• 1:41:52
  we're all on the same. It's the motor
• 1:41:53
  belt Bob bed. Is that
• 1:41:54
  the specific one that you were, you
• 1:41:56
  referenced in there? I think they're the
• 1:41:57
  only one at all, right?
• 1:41:59
  I think America's most wanted is building
• 1:42:01
  Bob beds now. There's a
• 1:42:04
  few companies that have done,
• 1:42:05
  they take the gladiator bed and they just
• 1:42:07
  Bob it versus doing the Moto built. Um,
• 1:42:10
  AMW has been doing it for a while.
• 1:42:11
  There's a couple other guys
• 1:42:12
  that did it before. You can,
• 1:42:14
  you can take six to eight inches off that
• 1:42:15
  bed really easy. And it,
• 1:42:17
  it's a really slick look.
• 1:42:19
  Keith, who built the one for the J truck
• 1:42:21
  you were looking at?
• 1:42:26
  I'm looking forward to
• 1:42:27
  seeing one of those Bob beds,
• 1:42:29
  motor belt Bob beds out there at EJS.
• 1:42:31
  I've already been pestering them.
• 1:42:32
  So this is Jim from Illinois. Again, I
• 1:42:37
  refuse to answer the
• 1:42:38
  question about what other Jeep I'd
• 1:42:40
  want to buy. You still have a whole. My
• 1:42:43
  wife may listen to this episode.
• 1:42:49
  It's, it's, yeah, it's saying it's just a
• 1:42:51
  dream. It's my, my, my
• 1:42:54
  driveway's already too full.
• 1:42:55
  She says I have to start selling before I
• 1:42:57
  can buy more. How many
• 1:42:58
  of you do you have now?
• 1:43:00
  The run.
• 1:43:02
  One, two, three, four, five, six.
• 1:43:11
  Wow. Oh, we're on the same
• 1:43:13
  page. I got six. You got six.
• 1:43:15
  Was that running and not
• 1:43:16
  running or is that just running?
• 1:43:18
  That's running. I mean, not running.
• 1:43:21
  One, two,
• 1:43:23
  another, another four. Those are all CJ
• 1:43:30
  sevens that eventually when I retire,
• 1:43:32
  I could make one or two good ones out of
• 1:43:34
  those four ones and 86, but
• 1:43:39
  it, it needs a lot of work,
• 1:43:40
  but it's the last year of CJ seven. So
• 1:43:42
  it's got the Dana 44s and stuff. So
• 1:43:45
  whether I steal those
• 1:43:46
  axles and put them under an 84, that's
• 1:43:49
  really in good shape. I don't
• 1:43:50
  know, but yeah. So those are
• 1:43:51
  projects long-term, but I may thin my
• 1:43:54
  hurt a little bit, but I don't know.
• 1:43:59
  That kind of dovetails in though, Chip,
• 1:44:02
  what you're saying there
• 1:44:03
  to the last question. I'll
• 1:44:04
  go ahead and read it out because it kind
• 1:44:05
  of falls in line.
• 1:44:06
  That's when you're looking at
• 1:44:07
  use Jeeps, whether it be classic CJs or
• 1:44:10
  whether it be a two year
• 1:44:11
  old jail or whatever it is,
• 1:44:13
  what are some of the things you're
• 1:44:14
  looking for that'll, that'll kind of
• 1:44:16
  pique your interest and
• 1:44:17
  what are things that are red flags and
• 1:44:19
  what would you
• 1:44:19
  consider it to be a red flag?
• 1:44:25
  Wiring issues are a red flag.
• 1:44:29
  Looks like underneath of Roger's hood.
• 1:44:31
  I was going to say, is Roger here too
• 1:44:33
  much wire under the hood?
• 1:44:37
  Roger, get his Jeep back. I didn't hear.
• 1:44:39
  Yeah, he did. And there's all that wiring
• 1:44:41
  is gone or it's been covered over.
• 1:44:44
  Oh, wow.
• 1:44:44
  Yeah, no fix at all.
• 1:44:47
  You know, so that's an interesting
• 1:44:49
  question because depends on
• 1:44:50
  what I used to think I was
• 1:44:53
  going to have time and energy and
• 1:44:55
  knowledge or money to throw at
• 1:44:57
  rebuilding a Jeep. And that's
• 1:44:59
  where those carcasses are sitting behind
• 1:45:02
  my barn. Is it, I decided
• 1:45:05
  I'd rather be driving something
• 1:45:06
  and not take the time and invested in
• 1:45:08
  that and have newer
• 1:45:10
  stuff that's running. I mean,
• 1:45:13
  but I wouldn't be afraid if a Jeep had a
• 1:45:18
  little bit of a tweak to a
• 1:45:19
  frame, if I could take it to
• 1:45:21
  a good frame shop, if it's an off-road
• 1:45:23
  vehicle. I'm not afraid of
• 1:45:25
  that. I'm not really afraid of
• 1:45:27
  many things. I guess rust here being in
• 1:45:29
  Illinois, rust is my biggest concern,
• 1:45:32
  right? If I've got a
• 1:45:33
  rusted out frame that I've got to replace
• 1:45:34
  or just rust in general
• 1:45:37
  is probably my, you know,
• 1:45:40
  a little body rot doesn't bother me.
• 1:45:43
  Speaking of the JK, because that's the
• 1:45:45
  one that I'm familiar with. If I was
• 1:45:47
  advising somebody on
• 1:45:49
  looking at a used one, one of the biggest
• 1:45:52
  things I always tell them
• 1:45:53
  was look for the oil leak,
• 1:45:55
  especially down the back around the oil
• 1:45:57
  coolers that tend to fail.
• 1:46:00
  That's just an anti-rust device.
• 1:46:02
  Well, that's the question for you, Greg.
• 1:46:07
  Does the 3.8 have this, if
• 1:46:09
  it has an oil leak on the back
• 1:46:10
  of a 3.8, what's probably, where's that
• 1:46:13
  coming from? Just a wild guess.
• 1:46:16
  Well, so the 3.8, it has two oil pan
• 1:46:21
  gaskets, one on the oil
• 1:46:23
  pan and one on the adapter.
• 1:46:25
  So a lot of people will fix the oil pan
• 1:46:27
  and not fix the adapter. And then
• 1:46:30
  up under the intake, a couple of the
• 1:46:36
  intake gaskets, there's oil passages
• 1:46:38
  and sometimes those can go and it'll leak
• 1:46:42
  through there. Worst I've
• 1:46:44
  ever seen is I saw somebody,
• 1:46:46
  and I don't know how they did it, but
• 1:46:48
  they actually cracked the block. And so it was leaking out of
• 1:46:51
  there. The early, early JK's, 07, the
• 1:46:58
  first, I think it was the
• 1:47:00
  first eight months of the
• 1:47:01
  production run, the front cover of the
• 1:47:04
  motor, which is an aluminum
• 1:47:06
  and magnesium mix, the casting
• 1:47:09
  ended up being a little too porous. So if
• 1:47:13
  you get a JK that's the first eight months of production,
• 1:47:13
  a lot of those front covers just weeped
• 1:47:19
  oil right through the cover.
• 1:47:23
  So, I mean, there's a lot of
• 1:47:24
  spots that something can leak oil, but
• 1:47:26
  those are kind of the
• 1:47:28
  biggest ones that I know of.
• 1:47:30
  Yeah, the first ones you listed are
• 1:47:31
  probably the culprit. This
• 1:47:32
  is a 2011. We've got a friend
• 1:47:34
  selling one. He only wants $12,000 for a
• 1:47:37
  mango tango Sahara with leather seats, beautiful little
• 1:47:38
  jeep. Very little rust. Man, too bad.
• 1:47:45
  That's not a Rubicon for 12
• 1:47:46
  grand. I'd buy that before
• 1:47:47
  your head. It's been, oh, hell yeah. But,
• 1:47:51
  but it's not. And so, right. But he's,
• 1:47:55
  he asked me to try to help him sell it.
• 1:47:57
  And I, and I, I've been putting some
• 1:47:59
  feelers out with people,
• 1:48:00
  but it's got 120,000 miles on it. So not a bad little jeep though. No,
• 1:48:04
  Greg, I hate you. Why? Because I got an
• 1:48:11
  07 and now I'm trying to
• 1:48:12
  figure out what month it was built.
• 1:48:15
  You know already. I mean, honestly, you'd
• 1:48:17
  know because they, most
• 1:48:19
  of them didn't make it six
• 1:48:20
  to eight months before they were leaking.
• 1:48:23
  And it would, they did a
• 1:48:23
  recall on it and they replaced
• 1:48:26
  the current cover for free. So if you
• 1:48:28
  have an 07 today and it's
• 1:48:29
  not leaking through the front
• 1:48:30
  cover, you have nothing to worry about.
• 1:48:35
  Cause you'd notice like,
• 1:48:37
  like a lot of them would leak
• 1:48:38
  like a half a quart of oil every hundred
• 1:48:40
  miles right through the
• 1:48:41
  center of the cover. Yeah.
• 1:48:44
  You'd know. Thank you, Greg. Yeah. Don't
• 1:48:46
  worry about it. And you
• 1:48:48
  know, you were talking about
• 1:48:49
  a gladiator would be your favorite. I'll
• 1:48:52
  tell you the cheapest V8 swap
• 1:48:55
  in a jeep right now is in an
• 1:48:57
  early JK. And I know you can still find
• 1:49:01
  them. If you get out there
• 1:49:02
  and look, look for a JK eight
• 1:49:05
  kit. So it was an actual Mopar kit that
• 1:49:08
  turned your jeep into kind of a little
• 1:49:12
  two door pickup truck.
• 1:49:14
  Oh, I've seen that.
• 1:49:16
  Yep. So it was a JK eight kit and a great
• 1:49:20
  tops makes a kit that
• 1:49:21
  actually turns it into an actual
• 1:49:23
  pickup truck. In fact, Ian Johnson built
• 1:49:24
  one a couple of years
• 1:49:25
  ago. So instead of going out
• 1:49:30
  and spending, you know, 50, 60 grand on a
• 1:49:32
  gladiator and putting a bet on it and
• 1:49:34
  doing everything else,
• 1:49:34
  you could spend half of that money and
• 1:49:37
  turn yours into a wicked
• 1:49:38
  one with the VA and the bed.
• 1:49:42
  Yeah. I like the four door. So yeah, I
• 1:49:46
  understand that. I don't care about the
• 1:49:48
  bed. Just, you know,
• 1:49:50
  I like the four door. I got a kid. Okay.
• 1:49:53
  You just like the look of the
• 1:49:54
  gladiator with the bed. Okay.
• 1:49:56
  Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. No, I like the
• 1:49:58
  gladiator with the truck.
• 1:49:59
  Did we make it through all four
• 1:50:00
  questions? I think, well, we're still in
• 1:50:03
  the fourth question.
• 1:50:04
  So yeah, we're onto the,
• 1:50:05
  we're onto the fourth question. That
• 1:50:06
  either means I write
• 1:50:07
  really bad questions here or,
• 1:50:09
  you know, we just didn't have a lot to
• 1:50:11
  say on each other. Tony's
• 1:50:13
  probably going to get a bonus
• 1:50:14
  for getting through all four questions.
• 1:50:17
  Yeah. So I get a, I only have
• 1:50:19
  to own five bucks instead of
• 1:50:20
  two 50. Right. That's exactly how it
• 1:50:26
  works. So, so what are the, one of the
• 1:50:29
  other things that I was
• 1:50:30
  just going to add on that one though,
• 1:50:31
  that I always look for is
• 1:50:32
  it's really cheaply and low
• 1:50:35
  quality done mods. So if you see a, if
• 1:50:38
  you see a rig that looks
• 1:50:39
  like it's had every single
• 1:50:41
  Amazon, a quadra tech catalog, not, not
• 1:50:45
  quadra tech at all, but
• 1:50:46
  extreme terrain, any of them.
• 1:50:48
  And it's all the, all the bolt on and
• 1:50:50
  stuff like that. Those,
• 1:50:51
  those, those tend to be ones that I
• 1:50:53
  would, I would consider that's got a
• 1:50:55
  rough with an angry
• 1:50:57
  grill and deviate bumpers.
• 1:51:02
  So I have a flip side to that coin. If
• 1:51:05
  you go on marketplace and
• 1:51:06
  you do some searches for,
• 1:51:07
  you know, some modified Jeeps, you can
• 1:51:11
  find there's those guys
• 1:51:12
  out there who have a hundred
• 1:51:15
  grand dumped into this suspension axles,
• 1:51:18
  blah, blah, blah. And you
• 1:51:21
  know, it's a project that's
• 1:51:22
  been going for five years and it's
• 1:51:23
  stalled and they're
• 1:51:24
  finally ready to get rid of it.
• 1:51:25
  And you can buy the thing for 20 grand.
• 1:51:27
  Those are the ones to really
• 1:51:29
  look for. Because sometimes
• 1:51:30
  you might not want to build the whole
• 1:51:31
  Jeep. You might just want
• 1:51:32
  to steal some of the really
• 1:51:33
  fucking high end parts and put them under
• 1:51:35
  what you already have.
• 1:51:38
  That's how I got my first Atlas, my first
• 1:51:40
  Atlas ever I bought. It
• 1:51:43
  was a TJ and the guy had one
• 1:51:45
  tons and an Atlas and he had a six liter
• 1:51:48
  swap going in it and all
• 1:51:49
  this other stuff. And I paid
• 1:51:52
  2,500 bucks to get it out of his garage.
• 1:51:54
  Cause he was moving, he
• 1:51:56
  was moving and it had to go.
• 1:51:58
  So, you know, sometimes looking for
• 1:52:00
  those, it's a diamond in the rough
• 1:52:03
  because you might just want
• 1:52:04
  some of the parts. Well, that's how I got
• 1:52:06
  into the jeeping off road
• 1:52:07
  was I had a stock CJ five
• 1:52:10
  and I wanted to do more off-roading and I
• 1:52:12
  didn't really know what I
• 1:52:13
  wanted to do. And I found a
• 1:52:14
  guy that had a built CJ five with a V8 in
• 1:52:17
  it. And that gave me the
• 1:52:19
  vehicle I needed to do the
• 1:52:21
  off-roading. I wanted to do with 35s and
• 1:52:23
  everything, but the, you
• 1:52:25
  bring that up Greg. So when I was
• 1:52:26
  looking for LJs out West, there was a
• 1:52:30
  Teraflex build that was a
• 1:52:31
  SEMA build from 2006 LJ that was
• 1:52:35
  available for sale for $25,000 that
• 1:52:39
  looked phenomenal. Yeah.
• 1:52:41
  And the axles were probably
• 1:52:42
  worth what they wanted for the whole car.
• 1:52:44
  Well, but it's an older
• 1:52:45
  build now, right? Cause they've
• 1:52:46
  been wheeling it since 2006, but yeah,
• 1:52:50
  but yeah, I mean that for
• 1:52:52
  25,000 for that, I really was
• 1:52:54
  tempted, but it was way over the budget
• 1:52:56
  that I had allotted myself
• 1:52:58
  to right next to the time.
• 1:53:03
  Awesome.
• 1:53:13
  We can. All right folks. Well, that's
• 1:53:16
  going to be, that's going to be it for
• 1:53:17
  tonight's show. So I
• 1:53:18
  hope everybody had a good time and follow
• 1:53:22
  along with all the members
• 1:53:23
  sharing their opinions that
• 1:53:25
  join the zoom room. And remember, you can
• 1:53:27
  join the zoom room any night
• 1:53:28
  that you want to, as long as
• 1:53:30
  it's Tuesday and Thursday nights, Tuesday
• 1:53:31
  nights, when we record the
• 1:53:32
  round table and we start the
• 1:53:34
  pre-show at seven 30 and we start
• 1:53:35
  recording at eight. This is
• 1:53:38
  my first time doing the show.
• 1:53:39
  Hopefully, hopefully I didn't do too bad.
• 1:53:41
  If I did just make a
• 1:53:44
  comment. We like to see the comments
• 1:53:45
  and I'll just tell you, you do you. Look
• 1:53:51
  at that. Steve
• 1:53:53
  decided to break the rules.
• 1:53:56
  So I want to say thanks again to
• 1:53:58
  trailsoffroad.com for sponsoring this
• 1:54:00
  round table episode.
• 1:54:01
  Make sure you go out there and you
• 1:54:02
  support the sponsors that
• 1:54:03
  help the show because each of you
• 1:54:05
  love the Jeep talk show. You love
• 1:54:07
  listening to it every week for each
• 1:54:08
  episode that gets put out there.
• 1:54:10
  And that really, really helps the show.
• 1:54:12
  If you go out and you
• 1:54:12
  support those sponsors. So
• 1:54:14
  visit trailsoffroad.com. Just go do it
• 1:54:17
  right now. It'll be great. So
• 1:54:19
  yeah, this was John hosting for the first
• 1:54:21
  time. Hope everybody will
• 1:54:22
  enjoy it. I will be back again
• 1:54:24
  next Tuesday, filling in while Tony is
• 1:54:26
  hanging out in EJS with everyone and
• 1:54:30
  feel free to join us then
• 1:54:31
  next Tuesday. Thank you.