Latest / Women at Work: Career, Leadership & Modern Work / How the Office Housework Penalty Hurts Women Careers
Transcript
- Lucas: Luna, I want to start with something that happened to me last week. I was in a meeting — about twelve people — and the manager said, 'Can someone take notes?' And I swear, every woman in the room either looked down or suddenly got busy on their laptop. Luna: Classic. And did a man volunteer? Lucas: No. Silence for about five seconds. Then a junior woman said, 'I'll do it.' And I thought — that's the office housework penalty in real time. Luna: Right. The non-promotable tasks. Taking notes, ordering lunch, planning the holiday party, onboarding new hires — stuff that has to get done but won't get you a raise or a promotion. Lucas: Exactly. And the data shows women do a disproportionate share. A famous 2018 Harvard Business Review study by Linda Babcock and her team looked at this. They surveyed faculty at a large university — found that women volunteered for these tasks 48 percent more often than men. Luna: Forty-eight percent. That's not a small gap. Lucas: It's huge. And the really interesting part — when they asked women why they volunteered, the top reason was 'someone had to do it.' Men's top reason? 'It would help me get ahead.' So women see it as a duty, men as a strategic choice. Luna: Which feeds right into the likeability trap we talked about in episode 31. Women get penalized for saying no — they're seen as not a team player. Men say no and it's seen as focused or strategic. Lucas: Exactly. And the penalty compounds. A 2023 follow-up study — this one led by Laurie Weingart at Carnegie Mellon — found that women of color bear an even heavier load. Black women and Latinas reported being asked to take on these tasks more frequently, and they felt less able to refuse. Luna: Because they're navigating both gender and racial stereotypes. The 'angry Black woman' trope, the 'fiery Latina' trope — saying no can feel riskier. Lucas: Right. And the tasks themselves aren't the problem. It's that they eat up time and energy that could go toward promotable work — the stuff that gets visibility, that gets you on the radar of senior leaders. Luna: So what's the solution? I know a lot of women listening are thinking, 'OK, but if I say no, I'll look bad.' Lucas: That's the core dilemma. And the research offers a few strategies. First — and this is hard — you can say yes, but with a condition. Something like, 'I can take notes, but I'll need someone to cover my part of the project review while I'm doing that.' Luna: That's smart. It makes the trade-off visible. Lucas: Exactly. You're not refusing — you're negotiating the terms. Second, you can delegate up. If a manager asks for a volunteer, you can say, 'I think this would be a great development opportunity for someone from a different team,' or 'Maybe we could rotate this task among the group.' Luna: Which puts the onus on the manager to distribute fairly, not on you to carry it. Lucas: Right. And third — for managers listening — be intentional. If you're the one asking for volunteers, notice who always raises their hand. And then explicitly ask someone who hasn't. Say, 'Mark, would you take notes this time?' Luna: Because if you don't, the default is that women will keep doing it. And it's not malicious — it's just unconscious bias. Lucas: Exactly. The same study found that when managers explicitly assigned the task instead of asking for volunteers, the gender gap disappeared. Because women weren't put in the position of having to volunteer or refuse. Luna: That's a powerful takeaway. So the fix is partly individual — learning to say no strategically — but mostly structural. Managers need to own the distribution. Lucas: Absolutely. And there's one more thing. A lot of women I've talked to say they genuinely don't realize how much office housework they're doing until they track it for a week. So I'd encourage listeners to try that — just keep a log for seven days. Every time you do something that's not in your job description, write it down. Luna: And then at the end of the week, look at it and ask: How much of this is helping me advance? If the answer is not much, it's time to rethink. Lucas: And that's the kind of reflection that this show tries to spark — not just naming the problem, but giving people a way to act on it. And if you find that kind of practical help valuable, it's worth mentioning that this podcast stays ad-free thanks to listeners who support us. If you'd like to be part of that, you can find us at buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo. No pressure — just a way to keep these conversations going without commercial breaks. Luna: And we really appreciate everyone who's already done that. It lets us dig into topics like this without worrying about sponsors. Lucas: So back to the research — there's one more finding I want to highlight. The 2018 study also looked at who gets asked. They found that women were more likely to be asked directly, while men were more likely to be asked in a general call for volunteers. So women face a double burden: they're asked more, and they say yes more. Luna: So if you're a woman and you're reading this — literally being asked by name — it's even harder to say no. Lucas: Exactly. The asker has already singled you out. That's why the structural fix is so important. Managers should avoid the direct ask to the same person over and over. Just rotate. Luna: And if you're the one being asked, you can say, 'I'm happy to help, but I'm stretched right now. Can we find a way to share this?' Lucas: That's a great script. And it's honest. Because the truth is, every hour you spend on office housework is an hour you're not spending on something that could get you promoted. Luna: And that's the penalty. It's not just that you're doing extra work — it's that you're missing out on the work that matters for your career. Lucas: Right. So the goal isn't to stop doing these tasks altogether. They need to get done. But the distribution should be fair. And that starts with awareness — both individual and organizational. Luna: And I think for women listening, the key is to start tracking, start negotiating, and start asking your manager to share the load. For men listening, be an ally by stepping up without being asked. Lucas: Yeah. And I'll add one more thing — if you're a manager, next time you need notes taken, look around the room. If you see a woman about to volunteer, just say, 'Actually, let's have someone different do it this time.' That small intervention can make a big difference. Luna: It's a small change that can shift the culture. And that's where real progress happens. Lucas: Exactly. So let's leave listeners with this: the office housework penalty is real, but it's not inevitable. With awareness and a few intentional moves, you can start to reclaim your time for the work that actually advances your career.