Latest / USA Daily News / ICE Shooting in NYC Man Wounded as 5-Year-Old Child Sits in Car
Transcript
- 0:00Speaker 1: On Thursday afternoon, October 8, 2026, a federal immigration enforcement
- 0:06Speaker 1: operation in New York City ended in gunfire, leaving a
- 0:09Speaker 1: man wounded, a young child caught in a frightening situation,
- 0:14Speaker 1: and a community demanding answers. The shooting occurred in Marble Hill,
- 0:19Speaker 1: a neighborhood in northern Manhattan near the Bronx, where an
- 0:23Speaker 1: immigration and customs enforcement agent fired at a man who
- 0:27Speaker 1: was inside a vehicle during an attempted arrest. the incident
- 0:31Speaker 1: immediately raised serious questions about the circumstances surrounding the encounter,
- 0:36Speaker 1: the decisions made by the officers involved, and the risks
- 0:40Speaker 1: created when armed federal agents conduct enforcement operations in busy
- 0:45Speaker 1: residential areas. What began as a targeted attempt to detain
- 0:49Speaker 1: an individual quickly became a major public controversy, drawing attention
- 0:54Speaker 1: from city officials, residents, and people already concerned about the
- 0:58Speaker 1: growing intensity of immigration enforcement across the United States. According
- 1:04Speaker 1: to the initial information released by authorities, the shooting took
- 1:08Speaker 1: place at approximately 4 o'clock in the afternoon near the
- 1:11Speaker 1: intersection of Marble Hill Avenue and West 225th Street. The
- 1:16Speaker 1: area is part of a densely populated urban environment where
- 1:20Speaker 1: residential buildings, local businesses, passing vehicles, and pedestrians share relatively
- 1:26Speaker 1: limited street space. At that time of day, people may
- 1:30Speaker 1: be returning from work, running errands, collecting children, or moving
- 1:34Speaker 1: through the neighborhood as part of their everyday routines. The
- 1:37Speaker 1: presence of federal officers conducting an arrest in such a
- 1:41Speaker 1: setting created a situation in which a confrontation could affect
- 1:45Speaker 1: not only the individual being targeted, but also everyone nearby.
- 1:50Speaker 1: When gunfire erupted, the incident transformed an ordinary afternoon into
- 1:55Speaker 1: a scene of confusion and emergency response. The man was
- 1:59Speaker 1: reportedly inside a gray sport utility vehicle when the agent fired,
- 2:03Speaker 1: and early accounts indicated that he had been struck by gunfire.
- 2:08Speaker 1: Images and reports from the scene described a vehicle with
- 2:11Speaker 1: damage to its windshield as officers gathered around it. The
- 2:15Speaker 1: circumstances immediately before the shooting remained a central point of uncertainty.
- 2:21Speaker 1: Although federal authorities confirmed that the agent had discharged a
- 2:24Speaker 1: firearm during an enforcement operation, the public account did not
- 2:29Speaker 1: initially provide a complete explanation of the precise movements, warnings,
- 2:34Speaker 1: or perceived threats that preceded the shots. Those details matter
- 2:38Speaker 1: because the assessment of any law enforcement shooting depends not
- 2:42Speaker 1: simply on the fact that an officer fired a weapon,
- 2:45Speaker 1: but on what was happening at the moment the decision
- 2:48Speaker 1: was made. Investigators must establish the sequence of events before
- 2:52Speaker 1: determining whether the use of force complied with applicable standards.
- 2:57Speaker 1: One of the most troubling details to emerge from the
- 3:00Speaker 1: incident was that a five-year-old child was reportedly inside the
- 3:04Speaker 1: vehicle when the shooting occurred. Local officials said the child
- 3:08Speaker 1: was not physically injured, but the presence of such a
- 3:12Speaker 1: young passenger intensified concerns about the circumstances in which the
- 3:16Speaker 1: operation unfolded. A child in a vehicle has little control
- 3:21Speaker 1: over an encounter between an adult driver and armed officers,
- 3:25Speaker 1: yet may be exposed to the immediate danger and confusion
- 3:28Speaker 1: created by sudden gunfire. Even when a child escapes physical injury,
- 3:33Speaker 1: an incident of this nature can raise important questions about
- 3:36Speaker 1: how officers evaluate the presence of other occupants before using force.
- 3:41Speaker 1: Authorities and investigators will need to establish what the officers
- 3:45Speaker 1: knew about the vehicle's occupants and whether the child's presence
- 3:49Speaker 1: was apparent before shots were fired. The child's reported safety
- 3:53Speaker 1: is an important fact, but it does not eliminate the
- 3:56Speaker 1: need to examine how the situation developed. The wounded man
- 4:00Speaker 1: was taken to a hospital for treatment, and early reports
- 4:04Speaker 1: indicated that his injuries were not considered life-threatening. Although that
- 4:09Speaker 1: provided some relief amid the uncertainty, It did not resolve
- 4:12Speaker 1: the broader questions raised by the shooting. Medical treatment addressed
- 4:16Speaker 1: the immediate physical emergency, while the investigation needed to establish
- 4:21Speaker 1: why the encounter escalated and whether the actions of the
- 4:25Speaker 1: officers involved were necessary under the circumstances. The distinction is
- 4:29Speaker 1: important because a person's survival does not determine whether force
- 4:33Speaker 1: was appropriate. just as the seriousness of an injury alone
- 4:37Speaker 1: cannot establish that an officer acted unlawfully. A credible assessment
- 4:42Speaker 1: requires a careful examination of the available evidence, including witness accounts, photographs,
- 4:49Speaker 1: video recordings, physical evidence, and the statements of those directly involved.
- 4:54Speaker 1: The response to the shooting also highlighted the complicated relationship
- 4:58Speaker 1: between federal immigration officers and local law enforcement in New
- 5:02Speaker 1: York City. The New York Police Department confirmed that its
- 5:06Speaker 1: officers were not involved in the shooting itself, distinguishing the
- 5:10Speaker 1: federal operation from the city's own policing activities. To understand
- 5:15Speaker 1: why the encounter in Marble Hill ended in gunfire, it
- 5:18Speaker 1: is necessary to examine the purpose of the federal operation
- 5:22Speaker 1: and the information authorities said they possessed before officers approached
- 5:26Speaker 1: the vehicle. The Department of Homeland Security described the action
- 5:31Speaker 1: as a targeted immigration enforcement operation, meaning officers were attempting
- 5:36Speaker 1: to locate and detain a particular individual rather than conducting
- 5:40Speaker 1: a general patrol of the surrounding neighborhood. Federal officials identified
- 5:44Speaker 1: the intended target as a 28-year-old Dominican national and pointed
- 5:49Speaker 1: to his reported criminal history as part of their explanation
- 5:53Speaker 1: for pursuing him. However, the decision to arrest a particular
- 5:57Speaker 1: person and the decision to use a firearm during an
- 6:00Speaker 1: encounter are two separate matters. Establishing the background of the
- 6:04Speaker 1: operation is therefore essential, but it cannot replace a careful
- 6:09Speaker 1: investigation into the circumstances that led an officer to shoot.
- 6:13Speaker 1: According to the information provided by federal authorities, the man
- 6:17Speaker 1: had previously been convicted of grand larceny and had a
- 6:21Speaker 1: history of other encounters with law enforcement. Officials also made
- 6:26Speaker 1: allegations concerning possible gang associations, presenting the case as an
- 6:31Speaker 1: example of the individuals they believed should be targeted through
- 6:34Speaker 1: immigration enforcement. Such descriptions can have a powerful influence on
- 6:39Speaker 1: how an incident is perceived, particularly when they are released
- 6:43Speaker 1: soon after a shooting. The public may interpret the government's
- 6:46Speaker 1: account as evidence that the operation was necessary, while critics
- 6:50Speaker 1: may question whether officials are emphasizing a suspect's background before
- 6:55Speaker 1: fully explaining the conduct of their own officers. A balanced
- 6:58Speaker 1: assessment requires separating established criminal convictions from previous arrests and
- 7:04Speaker 1: proven allegations and broader characterizations made by government agencies. Each
- 7:09Speaker 1: claim must be understood in its proper context. and none
- 7:13Speaker 1: should be treated as automatic proof that an individual presented
- 7:17Speaker 1: an immediate threat at the moment force was used. The
- 7:20Speaker 1: distinction is particularly important because immigration enforcement and criminal prosecution
- 7:26Speaker 1: serve different legal purposes. ICE is responsible for enforcing federal
- 7:31Speaker 1: immigration laws, including identifying and arresting certain individuals who may
- 7:36Speaker 1: be subject to immigration proceedings. Its officers may pursue people
- 7:40Speaker 1: who have criminal convictions, people wanted in connection with investigations,
- 7:45Speaker 1: or individuals believed to be violating immigration requirements. The legal
- 7:50Speaker 1: basis for an arrest can vary from one case to another,
- 7:53Speaker 1: and the circumstances surrounding a particular operation determine what authority
- 7:58Speaker 1: officers may exercise. A person with a criminal conviction can
- 8:02Speaker 1: still be entitled to the protections governing the use of force,
- 8:05Speaker 1: just as an immigration enforcement operation must comply with the
- 8:09Speaker 1: rules that apply to federal law enforcement. The central issue
- 8:13Speaker 1: is not whether authorities may conduct lawful arrests, but whether
- 8:17Speaker 1: the actions taken during a specific arrest are consistent with
- 8:20Speaker 1: the law and the available evidence. Targeted enforcement operations are
- 8:25Speaker 1: often organized around information gathered before officers arrive at a location.
- 8:30Speaker 1: That information may include an individual's identity records relating to
- 8:35Speaker 1: previous arrests or convictions, known addresses, reported associations, and details
- 8:41Speaker 1: that could help officers locate the person. Investigators and enforcement
- 8:45Speaker 1: teams may then consider when and where an arrest could
- 8:49Speaker 1: be attempted. Decisions about timing and location can be important
- 8:53Speaker 1: because an operation conducted in a controlled setting may present
- 8:57Speaker 1: different risks from one carried out on a public street.
- 9:01Speaker 1: In Marble Hill, The encounter occurred in an ordinary residential
- 9:05Speaker 1: environment where moving vehicles, pedestrians, nearby homes, and local traffic
- 9:11Speaker 1: created the potential for people beyond the intended target to
- 9:14Speaker 1: be affected. Understanding the planning process will help investigators determine
- 9:19Speaker 1: what risks were anticipated and whether the decisions made before
- 9:23Speaker 1: the confrontation contributed to the situation that followed. The challenge
- 9:28Speaker 1: becomes more complicated when officers approach someone seated inside a vehicle.
- 9:33Speaker 1: A vehicle can limit visibility, make it difficult to interpret
- 9:37Speaker 1: a driver's movements, and introduce the possibility that an attempt
- 9:40Speaker 1: to leave could rapidly change the circumstances. Officers must make
- 9:45Speaker 1: decisions in real time, but the seriousness of those decisions
- 9:49Speaker 1: means that the sequence of events must later be examined carefully.
- 9:53Speaker 1: Investigators need to establish where each officer was standing, whether
- 9:58Speaker 1: the vehicle was stationary or moving. what verbal instructions were given,
- 10:03Speaker 1: and what happened immediately before the firearm was discharged. If
- 10:07Speaker 1: an officer believed that the vehicle presented an imminent danger,
- 10:12Speaker 1: investigators must determine what evidence supports that assessment. The moments
- 10:17Speaker 1: leading up to the shooting in Marble Hill have become
- 10:19Speaker 1: the central focus of questions surrounding the icy enforcement operation.
- 10:24Speaker 1: While federal authorities confirmed that an agent discharged a firearm
- 10:28Speaker 1: during the attempted arrest, the precise circumstances that prompted the
- 10:33Speaker 1: decision remain critical to understanding how the encounter escalated. Initial
- 10:38Speaker 1: reports described two plainclothes federal officers approaching a gray Honda
- 10:42Speaker 1: CRV near West 225th Street, and Marble Hill Avenue on
- 10:47Speaker 1: the afternoon of October 8th. The man was inside the
- 10:51Speaker 1: vehicle and a five-year-old child was reportedly sitting in the
- 10:54Speaker 1: back seat. According to accounts released by officials, the situation
- 10:59Speaker 1: changed when the driver began moving the vehicle forward, leading
- 11:03Speaker 1: one of the officers to fire multiple rounds through the windshield.
- 11:07Speaker 1: The gunfire struck the driver, turning an attempted arrest into
- 11:11Speaker 1: a serious use-of-force incident that would soon attract national attention.
- 11:16Speaker 1: Reconstructing the sequence requires separating the details that have been
- 11:20Speaker 1: reported from the questions that investigators still need to answer.
- 11:24Speaker 1: According to the initial account provided by New York City
- 11:27Speaker 1: Police Commissioner Jessica Tisch, the officers approached the vehicle as
- 11:32Speaker 1: the man was parking. When he moved the car forward,
- 11:36Speaker 1: one of the agents fired approximately seven shots, with the
- 11:39Speaker 1: gunfire striking the man in the neck area. Other public
- 11:43Speaker 1: descriptions emphasized that federal agents had surrounded the vehicle before
- 11:48Speaker 1: firing multiple rounds. These accounts provide important information about the encounter,
- 11:53Speaker 1: but they do not necessarily answer every question about the
- 11:57Speaker 1: officer's positions, the timing of the vehicle's movement, or the
- 12:01Speaker 1: actions immediately preceding the first shot. A complete reconstruction must
- 12:06Speaker 1: establish the order of events with as much precision as possible,
- 12:10Speaker 1: rather than relying on broad descriptions that leave crucial details unresolved.
- 12:16Speaker 1: The driver's movement is particularly important because vehicle encounters can
- 12:20Speaker 1: develop rapidly and create different interpretations of the same moment.
- 12:25Speaker 1: An officer standing close to a car may perceive an
- 12:28Speaker 1: approaching vehicle as an immediate physical danger, while a driver
- 12:32Speaker 1: may be attempting to leave a confusing or frightening situation.
- 12:36Speaker 1: Neither possibility should be assumed without evidence. Investigators must determine
- 12:42Speaker 1: how the vehicle was moving, whether it was directed toward
- 12:45Speaker 1: an officer, how much space was available, and whether the
- 12:49Speaker 1: officer had a reasonable basis to believe that serious harm
- 12:53Speaker 1: was imminent. The direction and speed of the vehicle may
- 12:56Speaker 1: be as important as the distance between the driver and
- 12:59Speaker 1: the officers. If a vehicle was moving away from an officer,
- 13:03Speaker 1: that could present a different factual situation from one in
- 13:06Speaker 1: which it was advancing directly toward someone. The precise circumstances
- 13:11Speaker 1: matter because the legality of using deadly force depends on
- 13:14Speaker 1: the threat reasonably perceived at the time, not solely on
- 13:18Speaker 1: the fact that a vehicle moved during an arrest. The
- 13:21Speaker 1: decision to fire multiple rounds also raises questions about the
- 13:25Speaker 1: progression of the encounter. Investigators will need to establish when
- 13:29Speaker 1: the first shot was fired, how quickly subsequent shots followed,
- 13:34Speaker 1: whether the vehicle continued moving during the gunfire, and whether
- 13:38Speaker 1: the threat changed during those moments. These questions are central
- 13:42Speaker 1: to understanding whether the officer's actions were necessary under the circumstances.
- 13:47Speaker 1: A rapidly unfolding event may leave an officer with little
- 13:51Speaker 1: time to assess every possible response. but the use of
- 13:54Speaker 1: a firearm is still subject to legal standards and departmental policies.
- 14:00Speaker 1: Investigators must therefore consider both the immediate danger, if any,
- 14:05Speaker 1: and the sequence of decisions that followed. The number of
- 14:08Speaker 1: shots alone cannot conclusively determine whether the use of force
- 14:12Speaker 1: was justified, but it makes a careful examination of timing, positioning,
- 14:17Speaker 1: and available alternatives especially important. The vehicle itself may provide
- 14:22Speaker 1: crucial evidence. Early reports and images from the scene showed
- 14:27Speaker 1: damage to the windshield, including bullet holes, helping establish the
- 14:31Speaker 1: general location through which the shots were fired. Investigators can
- 14:36Speaker 1: examine the windshield, the body of the vehicle, the trajectory
- 14:40Speaker 1: of individual rounds, and any recovered projectiles to help determine
- 14:44Speaker 1: the positions of the officer and the driver. Ballistic evidence
- 14:48Speaker 1: may also assist in establishing the approximate direction of fire,
- 14:52Speaker 1: and whether the physical evidence is consistent with the accounts
- 14:56Speaker 1: provided by witnesses or officers. Such details can be significant
- 15:01Speaker 1: when accounts differ about where people were standing or how
- 15:04Speaker 1: the vehicle was moving. A damaged vehicle is more than
- 15:07Speaker 1: a visible reminder of the incident. When examined carefully, it
- 15:11Speaker 1: can become part of the evidence needed to reconstruct the encounter.
- 15:16Speaker 1: One of the most disturbing aspects of the shooting during
- 15:18Speaker 1: the IC enforcement operation in Marble Hill was the presence
- 15:22Speaker 1: of a five-year-old child inside the vehicle when gunfire erupted.
- 15:27Speaker 1: While the man behind the wheel was struck by bullets
- 15:30Speaker 1: and left requiring emergency medical treatment, the young passenger was
- 15:35Speaker 1: reportedly unharmed. That outcome offered some relief in a situation
- 15:39Speaker 1: that could easily have ended in an even greater tragedy. Nevertheless,
- 15:44Speaker 1: the child's presence transformed the incident from a confrontation between
- 15:49Speaker 1: federal officers and an adult suspect into a deeply personal
- 15:53Speaker 1: event involving a young life that had no control over
- 15:56Speaker 1: the circumstances unfolding around it. The shooting raised urgent questions
- 16:01Speaker 1: about how enforcement operations are conducted in residential neighborhoods, how
- 16:06Speaker 1: officers assess the presence of vulnerable passengers, and what safeguards
- 16:11Speaker 1: should be considered when an arrest takes place around families
- 16:15Speaker 1: and children. For a five-year-old, The world is still largely
- 16:19Speaker 1: understood through familiar people, everyday routines, and the reassurance provided
- 16:24Speaker 1: by trusted adults. A journey in a family vehicle may
- 16:28Speaker 1: ordinarily involve simple experiences, such as visiting relatives, traveling home,
- 16:34Speaker 1: or going somewhere with a parent. When such an ordinary
- 16:38Speaker 1: setting suddenly becomes the scene of a confrontation involving armed
- 16:42Speaker 1: officers and multiple gunshots, The contrast can be frightening even
- 16:46Speaker 1: for people who do not fully understand what is happening.
- 16:50Speaker 1: In Marble Hill, the child was reportedly seated in the
- 16:53Speaker 1: back of the vehicle as federal agents confronted the driver.
- 16:57Speaker 1: The available information does not establish precisely what the child saw, heard,
- 17:03Speaker 1: or understood in those moments. However, the circumstances alone illustrate
- 17:08Speaker 1: the particular vulnerability of young passengers who depend entirely on
- 17:12Speaker 1: adults to keep them safe. While the physical injuries in
- 17:15Speaker 1: this case were limited to the man who was shot,
- 17:18Speaker 1: the incident nevertheless raised important concerns about the wider consequences
- 17:23Speaker 1: of using firearms in the immediate presence of children. The
- 17:27Speaker 1: fact that the child was reportedly not physically injured became
- 17:31Speaker 1: one of the most important details in the initial public response.
- 17:35Speaker 1: Mayor Zoran Mamdani highlighted the child's presence when condemning the
- 17:39Speaker 1: shooting and describing the incident as an extremely serious situation.
- 17:44Speaker 1: His remarks reflected the concern that a confrontation involving federal
- 17:48Speaker 1: officers had unfolded around a young passenger in a densely
- 17:52Speaker 1: populated neighborhood. The absence of a physical injury was significant,
- 17:56Speaker 1: but it did not remove the need to investigate the
- 17:59Speaker 1: circumstances that placed the child in such a dangerous situation.
- 18:03Speaker 1: When gunfire is directed into a vehicle, the risk is
- 18:07Speaker 1: not necessarily limited to the person whom officers are attempting
- 18:10Speaker 1: to arrest. Bullets can travel through glass and vehicle interiors,
- 18:15Speaker 1: while sudden movements can make the positions of other occupants
- 18:18Speaker 1: difficult to predict. Even when no additional person is struck,
- 18:23Speaker 1: the potential consequences demand serious attention from investigators and law
- 18:27Speaker 1: enforcement agencies. The incident also highlights the responsibilities officers face
- 18:33Speaker 1: when they approach a vehicle containing more than one occupant.
- 18:36Speaker 1: Before using force, officers must assess the circumstances confronting them
- 18:42Speaker 1: and determine whether an immediate threat exists. The presence of
- 18:45Speaker 1: another passenger does not automatically prevent officers from making an
- 18:49Speaker 1: arrest or responding to a genuine danger. However, it does
- 18:53Speaker 1: increase the potential consequences of decisions made during a rapidly
- 18:57Speaker 1: developing encounter. Investigators will need to establish whether the child
- 19:02Speaker 1: was visible to the officers, whether they knew someone was
- 19:05Speaker 1: seated in the back, and what they could reasonably understand
- 19:08Speaker 1: about the situation before shots were fired. These details are
- 19:12Speaker 1: important not because they automatically determine whether the shooting was lawful,
- 19:17Speaker 1: but because they help establish how officers evaluated the risks
- 19:21Speaker 1: and whether their response complied with the standards governing the
- 19:24Speaker 1: use of deadly force. The question is not simply whether
- 19:28Speaker 1: the child survived, but whether the operation was conducted with
- 19:32Speaker 1: appropriate consideration for everyone who could be affected. The experience
- 19:37Speaker 1: of the child's family is another important part of the story.
- 19:41Speaker 1: When a family member is suddenly shot during a law
- 19:43Speaker 1: enforcement encounter, relatives may be left dealing with uncertainty about
- 19:47Speaker 1: the injured person's condition while also ensuring that children are
- 19:51Speaker 1: safe and properly cared for. In this case, the man
- 19:56Speaker 1: was taken to hospital with injuries that authorities did not
- 19:59Speaker 1: initially consider life-threatening. That provided a measure of reassurance, but
- 20:04Speaker 1: the immediate aftermath still required the child's needs to be
- 20:08Speaker 1: addressed separately from the medical emergency involving the driver. The
- 20:13Speaker 1: shooting in Marble Hill quickly developed into a confrontation between
- 20:16Speaker 1: New York City's political leadership and the federal government, exposing
- 20:21Speaker 1: deep divisions over immigration enforcement, public safety, and the limits
- 20:26Speaker 1: of federal authority in local communities. What initially appeared to
- 20:30Speaker 1: be a law enforcement incident soon became a test of
- 20:33Speaker 1: how city and state officials would respond when a federal
- 20:36Speaker 1: operation resulted in serious injury on a residential street. Mayor
- 20:41Speaker 1: Zoran Mamdani expressed strong condemnation of the shooting, while Governor
- 20:46Speaker 1: Kathy Hochul called for a full and transparent explanation from
- 20:50Speaker 1: federal authorities. Their responses reflected a broader concern that the
- 20:55Speaker 1: methods used during immigration enforcement operations must be subject to scrutiny,
- 21:00Speaker 1: particularly when incidents involve gunfire, vulnerable passengers, and people going
- 21:05Speaker 1: about their daily lives. As the political reaction intensified, The
- 21:11Speaker 1: central issue extended beyond the circumstances of one arrest to
- 21:15Speaker 1: the larger question of how federal officers should operate in
- 21:18Speaker 1: communities whose elected leaders sharply disagree with the administration's enforcement approach.
- 21:24Speaker 1: Mayor Mamdani emerged as one of the most outspoken critics
- 21:28Speaker 1: of the operation. Following the shooting, He described the incident
- 21:32Speaker 1: as an outrage and emphasized that a five-year-old child had
- 21:36Speaker 1: reportedly been inside the vehicle when the agent fired multiple rounds.
- 21:41Speaker 1: His reaction placed the safety of ordinary residents at the
- 21:44Speaker 1: center of the debate, arguing that immigration enforcement should not
- 21:48Speaker 1: create situations in which families and children are exposed to
- 21:52Speaker 1: avoidable danger. Mamdani also made clear that he wanted the
- 21:56Speaker 1: federal government to end ICE enforcement actions in New York City.
- 22:01Speaker 1: His position reflected a longstanding political disagreement over the agency's
- 22:06Speaker 1: presence in the city, but the shooting gave that disagreement
- 22:09Speaker 1: an immediate and deeply personal dimension. Instead of debating immigration
- 22:14Speaker 1: policy in the abstract, city officials were confronted with a
- 22:18Speaker 1: specific incident involving an injured man, a young passenger, and
- 22:23Speaker 1: questions about the decisions made by armed federal officers. The
- 22:27Speaker 1: mayor's response went beyond issuing a public statement. He said
- 22:31Speaker 1: he had contacted President Donald Trump and intended to demand
- 22:34Speaker 1: that the administration end IC enforcement operations in the city
- 22:38Speaker 1: when they spoke. The effort represented an attempt to take
- 22:42Speaker 1: the dispute directly to the highest level of federal leadership
- 22:46Speaker 1: rather than allowing the controversy to remain solely a matter
- 22:49Speaker 1: of public criticism. Namdani's approach also demonstrated the limits of
- 22:54Speaker 1: a mayor's influence over federal agencies. New York City's elected
- 22:58Speaker 1: leadership can set local priorities, manage municipal departments, communicate with residents,
- 23:05Speaker 1: and challenge federal actions through political or legal channels. But
- 23:09Speaker 1: it does not simply control the operational decisions of a
- 23:12Speaker 1: federal immigration agency. Any substantial change to ICE's activities would
- 23:17Speaker 1: therefore depend on decisions made by federal authorities, applicable law,
- 23:22Speaker 1: and potentially the outcome of legal disputes between different levels
- 23:26Speaker 1: of government. The mayor's demand was politically significant, but it
- 23:31Speaker 1: did not itself suspend the agency's authority to carry out
- 23:34Speaker 1: lawful federal duties. The mayor also sought to intervene in
- 23:38Speaker 1: the immediate aftermath of the shooting, including efforts to secure
- 23:42Speaker 1: the release of the wounded man from federal custody. According
- 23:45Speaker 1: to subsequent accounts, discussions with President Trump and Homeland Security
- 23:50Speaker 1: Secretary Marquine Mullen did not produce the outcome Mamdani had sought.
- 23:55Speaker 1: This added another layer to the controversy because the issue
- 23:59Speaker 1: was no longer limited to how the shooting occurred. It
- 24:02Speaker 1: also involved questions about what would happen to the injured
- 24:05Speaker 1: man after the encounter and whether local officials could influence
- 24:09Speaker 1: decisions being made by federal authorities. For Mamdani, the circumstances
- 24:15Speaker 1: reinforced concerns about the distance between the people affected by
- 24:19Speaker 1: an enforcement operation and the officials controlling its aftermath. For
- 24:23Speaker 1: federal authorities, the case remained connected to an enforcement action
- 24:28Speaker 1: that they had described as targeted. The disagreement illustrated how
- 24:32Speaker 1: rapidly an incident on a city street can become a
- 24:35Speaker 1: dispute over custody, accountability, and the division of responsibility between
- 24:41Speaker 1: government institutions. Governor Kathy Hochul adopted a similarly firm approach
- 24:46Speaker 1: in calling for a transparent account of the circumstances surrounding
- 24:50Speaker 1: the shootings. Her response emphasized that New Yorkers deserved to
- 24:55Speaker 1: understand exactly what had happened and why the agent had
- 24:58Speaker 1: discharged a firearm. That demand was significant because it focused
- 25:03Speaker 1: on the need for verifiable information rather than relying exclusively
- 25:07Speaker 1: on the initial explanations offered by either the federal government
- 25:11Speaker 1: or its critics. The shooting in Marble Hill quickly transformed
- 25:15Speaker 1: public concern into visible anger, bringing residents, activists, elected representatives,
- 25:22Speaker 1: and immigration rights advocates into a growing debate over the
- 25:25Speaker 1: conduct of federal immigration officers in New York City. What
- 25:30Speaker 1: made the incident particularly explosive was the combination of an
- 25:33Speaker 1: injured man, a five-year-old child reportedly present inside the vehicle,
- 25:38Speaker 1: and unanswered questions about why an IC agent fired multiple
- 25:42Speaker 1: rounds during an attempted arrest. For many residents, the shooting
- 25:47Speaker 1: became a symbol of the uncertainty surrounding federal immigration enforcement
- 25:51Speaker 1: in their neighborhoods. People gathered near the scene to demand explanations,
- 25:56Speaker 1: while others used the incident to renew calls for IC
- 25:59Speaker 1: to leave the city. The public response demonstrated how a
- 26:03Speaker 1: single enforcement operation can rapidly become a community-wide issue when
- 26:08Speaker 1: residents believe that the methods used by law enforcement may
- 26:11Speaker 1: expose ordinary people to unnecessary danger. As the news spread
- 26:16Speaker 1: on Thursday, October 8th, residents began assembling near the intersection
- 26:21Speaker 1: of Marble Hill Avenue and West 225th Street, where the
- 26:25Speaker 1: shooting had occurred earlier that afternoon. Demonstrators expressed anger toward
- 26:30Speaker 1: the federal agency, with some holding signs and chanting slogans
- 26:35Speaker 1: demanding that IC agents leave New York City streets. Their
- 26:39Speaker 1: presence reflected more than an immediate reaction to the gunfire.
- 26:43Speaker 1: For some participants, The incident reinforced existing concerns about the
- 26:47Speaker 1: increasing visibility of immigration officers, the circumstances in which arrests
- 26:53Speaker 1: are conducted, and the difficulty of obtaining clear explanations when
- 26:57Speaker 1: an operation ends in violence. Others were particularly disturbed by
- 27:02Speaker 1: the fact that a young child was reportedly sitting in
- 27:05Speaker 1: the back seat of the vehicle. The image of a
- 27:08Speaker 1: family vehicle damaged by gunfire became a powerful focal point
- 27:12Speaker 1: for criticism. encouraging protesters to ask whether the enforcement operation
- 27:17Speaker 1: could have been conducted in a way that reduced the
- 27:20Speaker 1: danger to everyone involved. The demonstrations also drew people who
- 27:24Speaker 1: were not necessarily connected to the injured man or his family,
- 27:28Speaker 1: but who believed the shooting raised questions about public safety
- 27:32Speaker 1: across the city. In a densely populated neighborhood, residents may
- 27:37Speaker 1: hear gunshots, witness emergency vehicles arriving, or encounter police activity
- 27:42Speaker 1: without knowing exactly what has happened. Such experiences can create
- 27:47Speaker 1: immediate fear particularly when the officers involved belong to a
- 27:51Speaker 1: federal agency whose operations residents may already view with suspicion.
- 27:56Speaker 1: Some community members expressed concern that aggressive enforcement tactics could
- 28:01Speaker 1: make ordinary streets feel unpredictable, leaving pedestrians, drivers, and families
- 28:07Speaker 1: uncertain about when a routine day might turn into a
- 28:10Speaker 1: dangerous encounter. These reactions are important for understanding why the
- 28:14Speaker 1: controversy spread beyond the original arrest attempt. The issue was
- 28:19Speaker 1: no longer restricted to the identity or background of the
- 28:22Speaker 1: person who had been shot. It had become a debate
- 28:25Speaker 1: about how law enforcement should operate in neighborhoods where people live, work,
- 28:30Speaker 1: raise children, and travel through public spaces every day. Political
- 28:35Speaker 1: representatives and community organizations added their voices to the demonstrations
- 28:40Speaker 1: as the evening progressed. Local lawmakers joined public criticism of
- 28:44Speaker 1: the shooting, while immigrant rights advocates called for a thorough investigation,
- 28:49Speaker 1: the release of relevant video footage, and accountability if investigators
- 28:54Speaker 1: determined that officers had used excessive force. Some representatives emphasized
- 29:00Speaker 1: the need to protect immigrant communities from intimidation, arguing that
- 29:04Speaker 1: residents should not have to fear that an encounter with
- 29:07Speaker 1: federal agents could result in violence, without a clear public explanation.
- 29:12Speaker 1: Others focused on the importance of establishing the exact sequence
- 29:16Speaker 1: of events before drawing final conclusions. These demands reflected a
- 29:20Speaker 1: common expectation that the government should be able to explain
- 29:24Speaker 1: serious uses of force through reliable evidence. Even where participants
- 29:29Speaker 1: strongly disagreed about immigration policy, The availability of credible information
- 29:34Speaker 1: became central to the debate because the initial explanations did
- 29:38Speaker 1: not answer everything. question surrounding the shooting. The protests later
- 29:43Speaker 1: extended to the hospital where the wounded man was receiving
- 29:47Speaker 1: medical attention. Reports described a large gathering outside New York
- 29:52Speaker 1: Presbyterian Allen Hospital, where demonstrators continued calling for an end
- 29:57Speaker 1: to icy operations in the city. As emotions intensified, the
- 30:01Speaker 1: situation became confrontational and clashes between protesters and police were reported.
- 30:08Speaker 1: Several arrests were also reported during the demonstrations. The developments
- 30:13Speaker 1: illustrated how quickly a dispute over federal immigration enforcement can
- 30:17Speaker 1: create additional public order challenges for local authorities. The investigation
- 30:22Speaker 1: into the shooting in Marble Hill has become one of
- 30:25Speaker 1: the most important stages in determining whether the IC agent
- 30:28Speaker 1: involved acted within the law and followed the standards governing
- 30:32Speaker 1: federal law enforcement. After the gunfire left a man wounded
- 30:36Speaker 1: inside his vehicle, attention shifted from the original arrest attempt
- 30:40Speaker 1: to the decisions made during the confrontation and the evidence
- 30:44Speaker 1: that could establish exactly what happened. Federal authorities confirmed that
- 30:49Speaker 1: a weapon had been discharged during the operation, while the
- 30:53Speaker 1: FBI's Evidence Response Team was reported to be assisting investigators
- 30:57Speaker 1: from the Department of Homeland Security. Although the involvement of
- 31:01Speaker 1: federal investigators represents an important step toward reconstructing the encounter,
- 31:07Speaker 1: it does not by itself establish whether the shooting was justified.
- 31:11Speaker 1: That determination requires a detailed review of the available evidence,
- 31:15Speaker 1: the applicable use-of-force rules, and the circumstances facing the officer
- 31:20Speaker 1: at the moment the firearm was discharged. A central part
- 31:24Speaker 1: of the investigation will involve reconstructing the sequence of events
- 31:28Speaker 1: from the moment the officers approached the vehicle until the
- 31:31Speaker 1: wounded man was taken for medical treatment. Investigators will need
- 31:35Speaker 1: to establish where each officer was standing, how the vehicle moved,
- 31:40Speaker 1: what instructions were given, and whether the driver posed an
- 31:44Speaker 1: immediate threat to anyone nearby. These details are especially important
- 31:49Speaker 1: because the shooting reportedly occurred as the man began moving
- 31:52Speaker 1: his vehicle forward during the attempted arrest. A moving vehicle
- 31:56Speaker 1: can present a genuine danger when it is directed toward
- 31:59Speaker 1: an officer or another person, but the movement of a
- 32:02Speaker 1: vehicle does not automatically justify the use of deadly force.
- 32:07Speaker 1: Investigators must examine the actual circumstances rather than rely on
- 32:11Speaker 1: general descriptions of the risks associated with vehicle encounters. The
- 32:16Speaker 1: direction and speed of the vehicle, the distance between the
- 32:19Speaker 1: driver and the officers, and the availability of alternative responses
- 32:24Speaker 1: could all become significant in determining whether the shooting complied
- 32:28Speaker 1: with the relevant standards. Physical evidence is likely to play
- 32:32Speaker 1: a major role in establishing what happened. The gray Honda
- 32:36Speaker 1: CR-V involved in the incident reportedly sustained damage to its windshield,
- 32:41Speaker 1: providing investigators with a vehicle that can be examined for
- 32:44Speaker 1: bullet holes, projectile paths, and other evidence associated with the shooting.
- 32:50Speaker 1: Ballistic specialists may be able to determine the direction from
- 32:53Speaker 1: which the shots were fired and compare those findings with
- 32:56Speaker 1: the accounts provided by the officers and witnesses. Investigators can
- 33:01Speaker 1: also examine recovered ammunition, shell casings, photographs, and any other
- 33:06Speaker 1: physical material collected at the scene. These findings may help
- 33:10Speaker 1: clarify the positions of the individuals involved and the sequence
- 33:14Speaker 1: in which the shots were discharged. Physical evidence is particularly
- 33:19Speaker 1: valuable when witnesses observed only part of an encounter or
- 33:23Speaker 1: when different accounts offer conflicting descriptions of the same moment.
- 33:27Speaker 1: Rather than treating any single statement as conclusive, investigators can
- 33:32Speaker 1: compare the evidence to develop a more complete and reliable reconstruction.
- 33:37Speaker 1: Video recordings will be another important consideration. Images and recordings
- 33:42Speaker 1: circulated after the shooting showed the damaged vehicle, federal officers
- 33:47Speaker 1: gathered around the scene, and the wounded man in the
- 33:50Speaker 1: aftermath of the encounter. Such material can help establish what
- 33:54Speaker 1: happened immediately after the gunfire, but it may not capture
- 33:58Speaker 1: the events that prompted the officer to shoot. Investigators, therefore,
- 34:02Speaker 1: need to determine whether bystanders, nearby businesses, residential security systems,
- 34:08Speaker 1: or other cameras recorded the approach to the vehicle and
- 34:11Speaker 1: the moments before the shots were fired. Any available body
- 34:15Speaker 1: camera footage would also be important in clarifying the commands given,
- 34:20Speaker 1: the positions of the officers, and their descriptions of the
- 34:23Speaker 1: perceived threat. Federal guidance introduced shortly before the shooting reportedly
- 34:28Speaker 1: tightened requirements for certain ICE vehicle stops, including requirements concerning
- 34:33Speaker 1: officer training and body camera use. Investigators should therefore establish
- 34:38Speaker 1: whether those provisions apply to this operation, whether the officers
- 34:42Speaker 1: involved complied with them, and whether relevant recordings exist. The
- 34:47Speaker 1: existence and contents of any footage must be confirmed rather
- 34:51Speaker 1: than assumed. Witness testimony will provide another layer of evidence. Residents, pedestrians, motorists,
- 34:59Speaker 1: and people working in nearby businesses may have heard the
- 35:02Speaker 1: officer's commands or observed the vehicle as the confrontation developed. However,
- 35:08Speaker 1: witnesses are unlikely to have seen every detail from the
- 35:12Speaker 1: same position, especially if the incident unfolded within seconds. A
- 35:17Speaker 1: person standing across the street may have observed the vehicle's movement,
- 35:21Speaker 1: but failed to hear the words exchanged between the driver
- 35:24Speaker 1: and officers. The shooting in Marble Hill has become part
- 35:27Speaker 1: of a much larger national debate over the direction of
- 35:30Speaker 1: immigration enforcement under President Donald Trump, raising questions about the
- 35:35Speaker 1: methods used by federal agents, the accountability of government agencies,
- 35:40Speaker 1: and the political consequences of an increasingly aggressive approach to
- 35:44Speaker 1: immigration control. Although the incident involved a single enforcement operation
- 35:49Speaker 1: in New York City, its implications extend far beyond the
- 35:53Speaker 1: neighborhood where the gunfire occurred. Federal immigration policy affects communities
- 35:58Speaker 1: across the United States, and incidents involving firearms can influence
- 36:03Speaker 1: how the public evaluates the government's ability to balance the
- 36:07Speaker 1: enforcement of national laws with the protection of human life.
- 36:11Speaker 1: With the injured man surviving the encounter and a five-year-old
- 36:15Speaker 1: child reportedly escaping physical harm, Attention has turned toward what
- 36:20Speaker 1: the incident could mean for IC, the administration's broader immigration strategy,
- 36:26Speaker 1: and the relationship between federal authorities and the communities in
- 36:29Speaker 1: which they operate. President Trump's renewed immigration crackdown has placed
- 36:34Speaker 1: greater emphasis on identifying, arresting, and deporting people whom federal
- 36:40Speaker 1: authorities consider to be in violation of immigration law. The
- 36:44Speaker 1: administration has presented stricter enforcement as a necessary response to
- 36:48Speaker 1: unauthorized immigration and a means of improving public safety, particularly
- 36:54Speaker 1: when authorities identify individuals with criminal convictions or previous encounters
- 36:59Speaker 1: with law enforcement. Supporters argue that immigration laws lose credibility
- 37:04Speaker 1: when governments fail to enforce them consistently and and they
- 37:08Speaker 1: maintain that federal officers need the resources and authority to
- 37:12Speaker 1: carry out arrests even in challenging circumstances. From this perspective,
- 37:17Speaker 1: targeted operations are an essential part of implementing national policy
- 37:21Speaker 1: rather than an optional activity that can be determined entirely
- 37:25Speaker 1: by local political preferences. However, the effectiveness of such an
- 37:30Speaker 1: approach depends not only on the number of arrests made,
- 37:33Speaker 1: but also on whether enforcement operations are conducted lawfully, safely,
- 37:38Speaker 1: and in ways that maintain public confidence in government institutions.
- 37:43Speaker 1: The Marble Hill shooting has complicated that political message because
- 37:47Speaker 1: it placed the consequences of enforcement tactics at the center
- 37:50Speaker 1: of public attention. Rather than focusing exclusively on the administration's
- 37:55Speaker 1: stated objectives, residents and officials began questioning the circumstances in
- 38:01Speaker 1: which an ICE officer fired multiple rounds at a vehicle
- 38:05Speaker 1: during an attempted arrest. The presence of a young child
- 38:08Speaker 1: in the car made the incident particularly difficult to separate
- 38:12Speaker 1: from broader concerns about the risks associated with federal operations
- 38:16Speaker 1: in residential areas. For critics of the administration, the shooting
- 38:20Speaker 1: reinforced arguments that aggressive enforcement can expose families and communities
- 38:26Speaker 1: to serious danger. For supporters of stronger immigration controls, the
- 38:31Speaker 1: incident also raised a different challenge. How can the government
- 38:35Speaker 1: demonstrate that it is enforcing the law effectively without undermining
- 38:38Speaker 1: confidence in the officers responsible for carrying out that mission?
- 38:43Speaker 1: The answer depends on the facts of the individual case,
- 38:46Speaker 1: but the political consequences may extend well beyond its eventual
- 38:50Speaker 1: legal outcome. One reason the incident has attracted wider attention
- 38:55Speaker 1: is that it occurred against a background of other shootings
- 38:58Speaker 1: involving federal immigration agents during vehicle encounters. National reporting has
- 39:03Speaker 1: described more than a dozen such incidents since the previous year,
- 39:07Speaker 1: resulting in multiple deaths and injuries. These cases have raised
- 39:12Speaker 1: questions about how officers approach vehicles, how they respond when
- 39:16Speaker 1: drivers attempt to move away, and whether existing training adequately
- 39:20Speaker 1: prepares agents for rapidly changing encounters. In late September 2026,
- 39:26Speaker 1: ICE reportedly issued guidance restricting high-speed vehicle pursuits and limiting
- 39:31Speaker 1: vehicle stops to officers who had completed specified training. The
- 39:35Speaker 1: existence of those restrictions has made the Marble Hill shooting
- 39:39Speaker 1: particularly significant because investigators and policymakers must consider whether the operation,
- 39:46Speaker 1: complied with the applicable requirements, and whether the guidance provides
- 39:50Speaker 1: adequate protection against unnecessary danger. The fact that several incidents
- 39:55Speaker 1: involve vehicles does not mean that they all occurred under
- 39:58Speaker 1: identical circumstances, but it does create a reason to examine
- 40:02Speaker 1: whether common operational risks require further attention. For IC leadership,
- 40:08Speaker 1: the immediate challenge is to maintain the agency's operational capacity
- 40:12Speaker 1: while responding to concerns about its methods. Federal officers routinely
- 40:17Speaker 1: work in situations where individuals may resist arrest, attempt to escape,
- 40:22Speaker 1: or behave unpredictably. These realities create legitimate safety concerns for officers,
- 40:28Speaker 1: but they also require clear procedures that explain when force
- 40:32Speaker 1: is permitted and what alternatives should be considered. The shooting
- 40:36Speaker 1: in Marble Hill has left New York City facing a
- 40:39Speaker 1: series of unanswered questions that will determine the future of
- 40:42Speaker 1: the case and potentially influence how federal immigration enforcement is
- 40:46Speaker 1: conducted across the United States. A man was wounded when
- 40:51Speaker 1: an IC agent fired multiple rounds during an attempted arrest,
- 40:55Speaker 1: while a five-year-old child who was reportedly inside the vehicle
- 40:59Speaker 1: escaped physical injury. The incident has generated strong criticism from
- 41:03Speaker 1: local leaders, renewed protests against federal immigration operations, and demands
- 41:09Speaker 1: for a transparent investigation into the officers' actions. However, the
- 41:14Speaker 1: long-term significance of the shooting will depend on what investigators establish,
- 41:19Speaker 1: whether any legal or administrative action follows, and how federal
- 41:23Speaker 1: authorities respond to concerns about the safety of their operations.
- 41:28Speaker 1: The coming weeks and months could therefore prove important not
- 41:31Speaker 1: only for the people directly affected, but also for the
- 41:35Speaker 1: relationship between ICE and the communities in which it operates.
- 41:39Speaker 1: The first major development to watch is the progress of
- 41:42Speaker 1: the investigation. Federal investigators must establish the sequence of events
- 41:47Speaker 1: that led to the shooting, including the officers' positions, the
- 41:51Speaker 1: movement of the vehicle, any commands that were issued, and
- 41:55Speaker 1: the threat the agent believed he faced. Physical evidence, witness accounts,
- 42:00Speaker 1: available recordings, and the officer's statements will all contribute to
- 42:04Speaker 1: determining whether the use of force complied with applicable legal
- 42:08Speaker 1: standards and agency policies. The fact that the injured man
- 42:12Speaker 1: reportedly had a criminal conviction does not automatically resolve the
- 42:16Speaker 1: question of whether the firearm discharge was justified. Similarly, political
- 42:22Speaker 1: criticism of ICE cannot substitute for a careful assessment of
- 42:26Speaker 1: the evidence. The investigation must focus on the circumstances that
- 42:30Speaker 1: existed when the shots were fired and establish whether the
- 42:33Speaker 1: agent's actions were lawful under the relevant standards. Until those
- 42:38Speaker 1: findings become available, definitive conclusions about individual responsibility would be premature.
- 42:44Speaker 1: A second important question concerns the injured man's legal situation
- 42:49Speaker 1: and what will happen after his recovery. His medical condition
- 42:53Speaker 1: and any continuing treatment remain separate from the federal government's
- 42:57Speaker 1: reasons for attempting to arrest him. Authorities may pursue immigration
- 43:02Speaker 1: proceedings or other legal processes depending on the applicable circumstances,
- 43:07Speaker 1: but the precise status of any custody arrangement or court
- 43:11Speaker 1: proceeding must be established through official information. The shooting itself
- 43:16Speaker 1: may also raise questions about the treatment of the injured
- 43:19Speaker 1: man following the encounter, including whether appropriate medical assistance was
- 43:24Speaker 1: provided and how decisions concerning his custody were made. His
- 43:28Speaker 1: legal rights and access to appropriate representation will remain relevant
- 43:33Speaker 1: regardless of the outcome of the investigation into the shooting.
- 43:37Speaker 1: For his family, the immediate priority will be his recovery
- 43:41Speaker 1: and the welfare of the child who was reportedly present
- 43:44Speaker 1: in the vehicle. For the wider public, the way authorities
- 43:48Speaker 1: handle these matters may influence perceptions of fairness and accountability.
- 43:53Speaker 1: The investigation could also lead to administrative consequences within IC
- 43:58Speaker 1: or other federal agencies. If investigators identify violations of policy,
- 44:03Speaker 1: officials may consider disciplinary action, changes to supervisory procedures, or
- 44:09Speaker 1: additional training for officers involved in similar operations. Depending on
- 44:14Speaker 1: the evidence and applicable law, the findings could also be
- 44:17Speaker 1: referred for further legal review. If the agent's actions are
- 44:21Speaker 1: found to have complied with the relevant standards, that conclusion
- 44:25Speaker 1: would still need to be explained clearly enough for the
- 44:28Speaker 1: public to understand the reasoning behind it. A finding that
- 44:31Speaker 1: force was legally justified would not necessarily mean that every
- 44:35Speaker 1: element of the operation was planned optimally or that no
- 44:39Speaker 1: improvements could be made. Equally, criticism of the officer's actions
- 44:44Speaker 1: does not establish misconduct without supporting evidence. An effective accountability
- 44:49Speaker 1: process must distinguish between individual wrongdoing, weaknesses in operational planning,
- 44:55Speaker 1: and risks that may require broader policy changes. Another issue
- 45:00Speaker 1: likely to receive attention is the use of force during
- 45:03Speaker 1: vehicle arrests. The circumstances in Marble Hill have renewed questions
- 45:07Speaker 1: about how officers should approach occupied vehicles, particularly when a
- 45:12Speaker 1: driver attempts to move away from an attempted arrest. Vehicles
- 45:15Speaker 1: can create serious and rapidly developing safety concerns, but the
- 45:20Speaker 1: use of a firearm can also place passengers, pedestrians, and
- 45:24Speaker 1: other people nearby at risk. Federal authorities will have to
- 45:28Speaker 1: consider whether existing training adequately addresses these situations and whether
- 45:33Speaker 1: officers have clear instructions on when deadly force is permitted.