Latest / Decisions, Decisions / EP 495: The Floor Is Obsession ft. Erica Chidi

Transcript

EP 495: The Floor Is Obsession ft. Erica Chidi · Decisions, Decisions

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Decisions, decisions.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: Hey guys, welcome to another episode of Decisions, Decisions. Before
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: we get started with this week's episode, as you know,
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: it is Breast Cancer Awareness Month. Again, I'm encouraging all
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: of you ladies to get out and get your mammograms.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Let your cousins, your aunties, your sisters, your mama, your grandma,
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: everybody to know to get their titties checked, especially during
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: this month. And of course, if you are dealing with
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: anyone in your family with breast cancer, this is the
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: perfect month to donate to any and all organizations that
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: help with breast cancer, I guess, research and assistance.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: So make sure you do that this month.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: Donate to a girl that had it. How about that?
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: My homegirls need a drink.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: Hello. What you mean? I'm saying don't like me. I'm
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: Being playful and saying, if you know someone that's had
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: breast cancer, treat them to a massage. Treat them to something.
• 0:57
  Speaker 3: It's a whole thing.
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: Like, you're right about taking people who have been through
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: cancer for something.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Cute, massage, da-da-da-da.
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: Because I read this article the other day that when
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: people get cancer, their friends be disappearing. It's like a
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: whole phenomenon, this, like, ghost friends from cancer.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, I was actually going to say, too— check on
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: the caregivers of the people dealing with the friends with cancer.
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Because they need, you know, to be checked up on too.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: They do.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: Y'all, my name is Weezy. We have somebody in the
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: building that I just met a few weeks ago, but
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: already was like, okay, yeah, this is a fit. Not
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: because we were the only ones on the trip talking about, should.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: We have Sasha at our party?
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: Should we actually do a foursome? And everybody's sitting there.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: I don't, I wanted to tell you this joke too.
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: I told Mandy yesterday, one of my homegirls works at
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: a New York creative company that we all follow and know.
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: She was like, girl, we was swiping and talking about, ooh,
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: that's the old bitch trip.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: I said, not the old bitch.
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: Because we went out and doing nothing.
• 1:54
  Speaker 4: Oh.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: We was talking about eating pussy and he was talking
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: about fucking. And I remember Brooke came outside and said, oh,
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: you're telling the story?
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'll come back later.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you were giving it up.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you know.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: But I learned so much about this amazing person today.
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: Erica Chidi, y'all. She is in the building. And I
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: want to say, I feel like you're all things women's health,
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: but also I couldn't believe how much I had learned
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: about you and just kind of your journey in being,
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: you know, someone who sold a company just like that's
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: venture capitalism. Yeah.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Let's talk. She's done some things. But I'm still not over.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: Really?
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Was it the old bitch trip because we not outside? Bitch, yeah.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: That upsets me. I'm now upset. Do you be outside?
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, I can be occasionally. I can be. It's
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: her election.
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: Don't give it.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Now it's all over. I can be outside. Well, I've
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: been outside. Let's put it that way. You've been outside
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: this summer? When was the last time you went outside?
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: And now you with old bitch. Bitch. Go ahead. It's coming.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: We going to be outside for my birthday?
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: It's coming.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: We're going to be outside for my birthday?
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: No, no, no.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Going outside for her birthday and going outside. Wait, wait.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: She's right.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: She's right.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: When was the last time, Erica, you've been outside? Damn.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Turks and Caicos trip. Listen.
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: Listen.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: That's right. I'm like, that bus. That boat trip had some...
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: That's not outside. Okay, whatever, y'all. Let's move on. I'm
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: moving on.
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: So Erica is also a New York Times bestselling.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Author, correct? At this point, yes, we can say that. Okay. Yes.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: The book is called Nurture.
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: It's about... Parenthood?
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: It's about pregnancy, birth, and early motherhood. And it's all
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: about how to take care of yourself during that process.
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: And the weird part about it is, coming from a doula.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: That has no children.
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: No children.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: So how does that happen?
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: Well, you know, this is a thing that I feel
• 3:46
  Speaker 4: like a lot of people don't realize about birth work.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: It is a young women's game. Yeah.
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: You need to be able to drop everything at the
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: drop of a hat. You sometimes are gone for two
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: or three days because that's how long a birth can take.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: You're up for hours.
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: It actually becomes harder and harder to do the older
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: that you get. And so when I started out with
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: doula work, I was in my very early 20s. And
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: I was definitely that first wave of very young girls
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: who were like, I want to do this work because
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: I have the time, I have the space, I have
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: the strength to do it. I also wanted to become
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: a midwife and was en route to doing that, doing
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: all my nursing prerequisites.
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: What's the difference between midwife and doula?
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: So let's fan it out even more. So there are midwives,
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: there are OBGYNs, and there are doulas. That's probably like,
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: there's other people I could mention, but those are the
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: key players. So a midwife can offer gynecological cares like
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: pap smears, you know, just Your annual, you could have
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: your annual exam with a midwife. And they can also
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: handle birth, as long as it's not complicated and it's
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: not a high-risk birth. There are midwives who work inside
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: of hospitals. There are midwives who work outside of hospitals.
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: Depending on what state you're in or where you live
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: in the world, you know, the regulations are different. And
• 5:06
  Speaker 4: then OBGYNs can also do gynecology, so your PAPs, your annuals,
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: all of that stuff. But then they also can do obstetrics,
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: meaning they can deliver– or birth your baby. And they
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: can also perform surgery. So if you needed a cesarean birth,
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: they would be the ones to do that. A midwife
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: is not able to do surgery. So oftentimes you might
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: have a midwife and an OB working together and someone
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: is having a home birth, or you might have an
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: OB and a midwife working together at a hospital to
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: basically have a low intervention birth, meaning potentially, you know,
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: no epidural or at Or the bigger thing, trying to
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: avoid having a cesarean birth if that's not the choice,
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: if that's not where we're going. And then doulas are
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: professional educators, advocates that help support the person through fertility, birth, postpartum,
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: the whole process. And, you know, there's doulas who focus
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: on fertility. There's doulas who focus on periods. There's doulas
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: who focus on sex. I was a full spectrum doula,
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: so I was touching everything and basically helping to educate, support,
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: make the process feel less clinical and support, whether they're
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: working with a midwife or a doctor, kind of being
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: that extra third person.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: What's a doula for sex? Well, I mean, a lot
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: of women have sexual dysfunction, right?
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 6:27
  Speaker 4: Or are dealing with sexual trauma and have not felt
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: like they can really put themselves back out there or
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: can't orgasm or.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever heard doula associated with that.
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Okay. We are out here for that.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: That's actually so... So they don't have to be pregnant.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: They're there too. They don't have to be pregnant.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: This is someone that you coach through.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Is it someone that you... I know I was just....
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Seeing something where people can have sex to help people
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: get over trauma, right? So is that something that you
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: would do? Yeah, there's sex surrogates.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: There's also such, there's also sexological body workers who really
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: focus on mapping the body to understand where and how
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: trauma has been.
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: Has impacted it in terms of sex or anything related
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: to that. A lot of sexological body workers do internal work,
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: meaning they actually put hands and fingers inside.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: You don't do that. No, I don't do that. However,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: I'm actually a.
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: Big fan of internal work for so many different reasons.
• 7:29
  Speaker 4: So internal work Let's like just keep it away from
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: pregnancy for a second. So internal work, if you have endometriosis, fibroids, PCOS,
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: you got to remember like your midsection where all these things.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Live is itty bitty.
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: It's not that big.
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: And so your pelvic floor is right below all of that.
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: Your pelvic floor muscles are kind of you want to
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: think of them like a hammock.
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: Like holding up the bottom of your pelvis. And the
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: reality is when you have, like I said, fibroids, endometriosis,
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: da da da da. your pelvic floor can get very,
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: very tight and very, and it can become painful in
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: certain areas. So I don't know if you guys ever
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: talked about in the show, but like pain during sex, vaginismus.
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: Is that why you think, so I've had fibroids, they
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: shrunk because I lost weight and was on just like
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: a journey to figure out how to shrink them without
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: getting them removed. I was recommended UFE, which is basically where.
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: They're, Ultra-frequency ablation or embolism.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: I can't remember. It's one of the two.
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: Embolism, I think.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, embolism.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: And basically, instead of going in and doing surgery, it
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: was like $ 20, 000. I was just like, yeah, let me
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: just try to not eat after seven. And it actually worked. But-
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: I've been recommended a C-section by like almost every OB
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: because of my fibroid.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Because of where they're placed?
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: You know, here, there's a couple things. So I'm going
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: to get to that. I'm going to come back to
• 8:56
  Speaker 4: the other thing I was saying because it all ties together.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: So, you know.
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: When you have those types of issues, I had 25
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: fibroids taken out of my body like four years ago.
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: Whoa.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: I had an open myomectomy.
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: So those types of issues or co-occurring kind of problems
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: can create a lot of tension in the pelvic floor,
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: which can create pain during sex. And so pain during sex,
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: sex with self, sex with partner. It also can create
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: pain when you're taking bowel movements, like just everything down
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: there can feel really tense. And so what a lot
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: of women don't realize is that you don't have to
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: just suffer through that. You actually can see, we just
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: talked about a sexological body worker. They're going to focus
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: mostly on, you know, trauma, but also trying to like
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: give you, you know, a new template of how to
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: use and be with your body during sex, whether it's
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: on your own or with somebody else. But a physical
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: therapist that specializes in women's pelvic health is gonna go
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: in there and literally go into your vagina and go
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: into your pelvic floor and look and see where the
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: muscles are tight and actually do trigger point therapy, just
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: holding on to certain points to help it release and
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: let go.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: That's incredible. I've had two friends.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: Well, pretty much every black woman that I know has
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: fibroids to some extent, but one of my friends, Had
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: four myomectomies.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: And early on when we were.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: Like 18, 19, she literally thought she just couldn't take dick.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: It was so painful for her.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: And it wasn't until in her mid-20s that she realized
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: what was causing it.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: And it was the fibroids.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: And then on the other end, I had an episode
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: on Period Sis where someone had such severe vaginismus and
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: things happening with the tightness of her vagina that that
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: she shifted her whole sexuality to only dealing with women
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: because penetration was just not pleasurable in any way. And
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: so it's interesting because I don't think so many women
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: know the options. I know also women that literally just
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: feel like they can't take dick, which is crazy, knowing
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: that there are solutions for it.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: And going from that back to what you're saying about
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: the cesarean birth option, you know, it's always good to
• 11:12
  Speaker 4: get a second or third opinion, ideally from a doctor
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: who has cultural competency and cultural congruence with you.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: So what that means is a doctor, ideally, who looks
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: like you, who ideally.
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: would be a woman who's willing to go a little slower,
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: do as much imaging as needed to make sure that
• 11:33
  Speaker 4: this is going to be the only path that you
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: can have. Now, I'm not pro-vaginal birth. I'm not pro-cesarean birth.
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: I'm pro-whatever your body is able to do. But I
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: don't really love when people get kind of pushed into
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: a path if they haven't been able to talk to
• 11:53
  Speaker 4: enough people to give you that visibility and that clarity
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: of what is going to be right for you.
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: You know, I feel like that about egg freezing right now.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: I feel like everybody in my life is just freezing, freezing,
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: freezing because insurance can do it, not realizing how much
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: of a strain on their body it is, how intense
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: it is, costly storage, fucking hormones.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: And then it's just like, I didn't realize that part.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: I think that's the part that they don't. Like, yeah,
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: you got to take the injections. Yes, you're taking out eggs.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: I have multiple friends that have frozen their eggs. My friend,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: I was just asking, well, do you want a baby?
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Because she froze her eggs maybe five years ago now.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: Maybe five or six. She was like, girl, let's stop
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: paying the storage. It started becoming so much.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: And it was like.
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: Did she tell you how much? I think Cameron Crawford
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: said 9.38.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: I think it.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: It depends also what your insurance is, what state you live.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: In, what facility you use. Like it, it, you know, differs.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: But I was like, oh bitch, I didn't realize you
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: got to pay monthly for For them to store these motherfuckers.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: Wait, monthly? I thought they did a little annual deal.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: No, not you freaking out your phone. Not even like,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: let me see.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: The same way our subscription apps have monthly or annually,
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: you might save 10%, you.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Know, paying annually. But that was a fee that I
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: was unfamiliar with.
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: On average, it's egg freezing.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Bruh.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: That's the thing, though.
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: It's like, I think we don't talk about the privilege of.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: 500 to 1,000 a year.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: It can be, depending on the clinic. Depending on the clinic. Yeah.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: Long-term says most women get to around 5,000 before deciding
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: to use them or not. Yes.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah. That's a whole nother cost. Now that baby
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: better come true. That baby better come. Well, then that's
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: the other thing.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: The embryos aren't guaranteed to go full-term either.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: So you're saving these eggs, which.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: My friend who went through two rounds of IVF, it
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: was really interesting because they have to reach certain sizes.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: And so she had eggs, but none of them were
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: reaching a size. In the first round of IVF, she
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: only got one egg. So she did another round. At
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: least she got one.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: That's true.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: One egg.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: And then the second round, I think it ended up
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: being a flop. Because they weren't, they have to be
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: a certain size. Like, if you guys go fishing, I
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: like to go deep sea fishing. I just went fishing
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: in Florida with my mom. I don't know where you're
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: going with this, but I'm into it. But when you
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: catch fish, legally they have to be certain sizes to
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: even keep them. Otherwise, you got to let them back
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: in the ocean. There's laws around keeping fish. And it's
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: the same with eggs.
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: In order for viability, they have to be a certain
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: size in order for them to be retrieved and removed
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: and stored.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Otherwise, there's nothing to do with it. Nothing to do. Yeah.
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Can I ask you a personal question? Yes. It's
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: too personal. I feel like, well. Okay. You're dating a woman.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: You've talked about wanting to have children, I feel like,
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: with me. Yes. Where are the first places you want
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: to go as someone that knows so much about kids?
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: Do your brain, I mean, about birthing, excuse me. Does
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: your brain go to adoption? Does your brain go to surrogacy?
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: You holding, you caring, like, what are the conversations like
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: in your relationship being that you know so much?
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: I wish she was here right now.
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: I can't wait for you to meet her because she
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: always be like, there she goes, because I have a
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: lot of different thoughts. I mean, for me, because I've
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: had surgeries, I have been told I definitely can carry.
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: So I'm open to it mostly because I just after
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: doing it for so many years, like I am genuinely.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Curious about what it will all be like.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: And how must men feel when they deliver babies? They'd
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: be like, damn, if I shit out a baby, what
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: could this?
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: They really also men's pain tolerance. It's like Ain't got
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: nothing on us.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: Getting on YouTube and seeing all of the period simulations
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: of the cramps.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: It's crazy. But yeah, I'm open. I think between the
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: two of us, we both are open to caring.
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: I think that depending on the timeline of things, surrogacy
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: is not off the table. I don't think I would
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: ever adopt unless maybe adopting in another country. Like if
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: we moved back to the continent, let's say, you know,
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: then that could be interesting. But I think, yeah, adoption's
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: not ever really been something that I've been super open to.
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: That's such a pro-Black thing.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm proud of that. It's right.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: That was so.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: It's correct.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: We moved back to the continent.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: But you are South African though.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: I'm Nigerian. Okay.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: Why did I think you were South African?
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Because I grew up there. Okay.
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: It was when I'm a piano came on.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, girl.
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: But before, but before I'm a piano, like South Africa is,
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: I don't know. I'm really lucky to have grown up
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: there as complicated as it was.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: When starting this new company, Bodied, can you tell me
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: if there's any inspo from all of your work?
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: What is Bodied? Yeah, so Bodied is my new YouTube show.
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: It's basically hysteria-free insights about women's health and well-being. And
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: the hysteria is the point. I think for, I don't
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: even know how long, women have always been made to
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: feel hysterical for actually having questions about their body or
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: wanting more for their body or just, you know, That's
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: always how we're positioned. And I think over my like
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: almost 20 years in women's health and working with women,
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: women are not hysterical.
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: No, no.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Most of the time. And the thing that's.
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: Actually super interesting for me, and I don't know if
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: y'all saw the piece about Busy Phillips doing the she
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: did a full body MRI, even though her doctor was like, no,
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: I don't do it.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: She was like, I just feel like something is off.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: She did it. She found brain cancer. She just knew.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: It's like we have an intuition and that intuition.
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: She has brain cancer right now?
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: It's gone. They took it out.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: My best friend had to do that with her breast cancer.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: So the first time she got breast cancer, she had
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: a sharp pain in her breast. Went to the first lady.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: First lady was like, no, it might just be some tissue.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: I said, bitch, go get a second opinion. She went
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: second opinion stage two.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: She beat it.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: So she just now got re-diagnosed, but she was vacuuming
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: her home and fractured a rib. So she goes to
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: her oncologist and she's like, my side has really been hurting. Like,
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe we could do something. Found out it
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: was fractured. He's like, maybe you fell. Maybe you got
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: in a car accident. Are you sure like nothing traumatic
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: has happened in the last? She was like, no, like
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: I know exactly when it happened. They ended up doing
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: all these tests because she was five years ready to
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: get off her medication. And in her advocating for herself,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: the breast cancer metastasized in her bones.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: Wow. But even that, she had to be like, uh... Hello?
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: First off, no, I didn't... How are you trying to
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: tell me I must have got into a car accident? Like,
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: that's not something I would have remembered.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Also, what are you talking about? I know what happened. Like,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: what are you talking about? And so it's that. It's
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: the advocacy.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: But even getting back to, like, reproductive justice, I think it's...
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: I think it's odd that specifically conservatives in the church
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: and the patriarchy are so heavily invested in the fact
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: that women are here to birth, to create life, to
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: give life. And you as a woman, your reason for
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: being here is to bring something into the world. And
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: when we get into the medical side, especially like the U.S.,
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: they're so naive. to your period, to our reproductive system,
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: to what's happening, to what the pain is, to the
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: pain tolerance. All of the women that I'm talking to
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: are figuring out they have endometriosis, PCOS, all of these
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: things in their 20s and 30s because painful periods, oh,
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: let's just get you some birth control and it'll you
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: know stop the flow just a little bit instead of
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: really going into figuring out what the cause or root
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: of the issue is.
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah and that's really what body is about it's about
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: root cause it's really about Every single video, I'm going
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: to just be tackling things that I'm curious about that
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: I would still like to know more. I love research
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: and I love teaching. And for the past couple of years,
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: I haven't been. I've been, you know, kind of like
• 20:12
  Speaker 4: on a artistic, creative sabbatical, consulting for people, writing things, da-da-da-da.
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: But yeah, I really just want to help people get
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: smarter about their bodies and to thrive more. on their
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: own terms, whatever that's going to look like. And I
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: think still, and also like I'm obsessed with YouTube. I've
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: always been, but I didn't really have time to do
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: anything around it because I was a founder. You know,
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: I'd raised venture capital. Back when I was in founder mode,
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: it was very like poo-pooed. If you're like on the internet,
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: you're like yapping.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Do you go into historical hysteria? Only because I know like....
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: You know, if women were sexually promiscuous, I think at
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: one time they thought they were witches. Or if you
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: needed help orgasming, you would go to a doctor, but
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: then they could also put you into an insane asylum. Like,
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: what are some historical hysterias around women?
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what are some deep cuts?
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: I feel like those are the stories we know, but
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: what's something that's.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Well, I think like a deep cut is, it's important
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: to understand. So we call.
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: a hysterectomy when you remove the uterus right so that
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: the actual like root of the word like it's from
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: hysteria yes it's all it's all related so okay hysteria
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: hysterectomy it's all about that part of the body and
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: so for me I wanted to reclaim that word and
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: say that no we are free of that and we're
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: allowed to be deeply curious.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: We got to call it hysteria Hello. I mean, I
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: know there's definitely some people up in Berkeley.
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: There's some people up in the Pacific Northwest who own
• 21:43
  Speaker 4: that already.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. It's definitely there.
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: But the thing I actually want to get back to
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: really fast is two things. So basically, like the channels
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: for me to have fun because I just love learning
• 21:54
  Speaker 4: and I love teaching.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: And there's still not a lot of us on there doing. Yes.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: There's not a lot of us there.
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: On there doing this type of content, like really thinking
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: about health education, making it cool, vibey, and also just
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: like getting granular with this idea of like, yeah, I
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: want to help more women. And I also love that
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: YouTube's free, like anybody can get to it. And that
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: was really my big thing is like, I just want
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: as many people to get the information as possible. But,
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: you know, like what I wanted to say about what
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: you were saying earlier when you were talking about your
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: friend who thought she just couldn't take a dick because
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: of her fibroids. and then move to women, da-da-da-da. I
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: also think we need to be talking more about intercourse
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: versus outer course.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Oh.
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: Because it's like, it's a preference, you know? Like, I
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: personally don't really love intercourse. It has nothing to do
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: with the fact that I'm gay or whatever.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: I've never heard of it being called outer course.
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: So outer course is just like, it's giving hands, it's
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: giving clit, it's giving vulva, it's giving anything but penetration.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: And for some people, like, That's a whole meal.
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: Do you know something? That's a buffet. I've been talking
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: about mutual masturbation being one of my favorite things.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, me too, for years.
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: High five. On this show for years.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: I'm so proud.
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: And everybody's always like, this sounds childish and silly. My
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: man was like, oh, I understand because you're fucking gay.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: That's why you be wanting to sit here and fucking
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: touch your pussy and have me touch your pussy. Like,
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: I understand now you're getting something off that you only
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: really got off you feel like with women. Yeah. Because
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: there were a lot of times where I would talk
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: about it and he would be into it because I'm
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: super into it. But I think now just the understanding
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: around how much touching has been a pleasure source for me.
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: It's weird because as we're non-monogamous and we'll get into
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: that too because I know you used to be married
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: and you guys were also non-monogamous and I really married
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: to a man which I think is a really interesting
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: thing to talk about. I went the opposite. In our.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: Sessions with other women he's like it's almost like you
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: run to doing that like you are like he's like
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: it's almost like you're like ready to be done kissing
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: and you're like oh it's not even eating pussy like
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: you want to feel pussy and he's like and I
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: could understand it I could only understand if anybody's bisexual
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: what you're missing when you talk about outer course specifically
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: for hetero women or women that just like to fuck
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: men sometimes what are we missing And how are we
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: losing out or missing out on pleasure because we're not
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: doing it enough?
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: I mean, we're missing out on all kinds of shit.
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: I mean, the reality is like the clitoris has so
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: many nerve endings. And to be perfectly honest, I think
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: that people talk about foreplay. I think we should stop
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: talking about foreplay and just skip it.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Put it in the garbage. Wait, skip foreplay? The word?
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Hold on, hold on, hold on. Okay. Let me cook.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: Let me just get to it. Yes, please. And then
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: you can come for me.
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: I think we, because foreplay is not doing anything for us.
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: No one really, really understands what that means.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: We've had it. It's not happening enough. It's us. Not me.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: I'm getting foreplay. I've always gotten foreplay.
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: But I'm talking about in the world, I feel like
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: when people hear the word foreplay, it doesn't really like
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: motivate them to do it per se. It's like kissing,
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: you know, touching, you know, whatever, massage, whatever. But it's all,
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: it's everywhere but down here. I don't think when, if
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: I could actually get a show of hands of people,
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: when I say foreplay, what parts of the body does
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: it mean?
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: Does it represent?
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: Am I a hoe? Because I think it means eating
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: pussy first.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: What?
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: If it's, only if that's a man, actually. Well, here's
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: the thing. If it's women, I do think.
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: You see, this is why I want to talk about
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: it because I really think, I know we don't have
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: a big audience to ask.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: What do you.
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: Think foreplay is?
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: Are y'all foreplaying? Yeah. But what do you think it is? Like,
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: what do you actually think it is? Wolf, do you
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: want to talk? Is your mic on? Yeah.
• 26:00
  Speaker 5: To me, foreplay is just. you know, being very heavy
• 26:04
  Speaker 5: with my, it's really sensuality to me. Very, being very sensual, you.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Know what I mean?
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: But let's get directional. Like what parts of the body
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: are you going after when it's foreplay time?
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: Be on the sex podcast.
• 26:12
  Speaker 5: I'm just putting my hands everywhere, putting my hands on
• 26:14
  Speaker 5: her thighs, putting my hands on her shoulders, touching, just
• 26:17
  Speaker 5: being very like intentional. It's like, I'm not pulling the
• 26:20
  Speaker 5: trigger just yet, but I'm kind of flirting with danger.
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: If that makes sense. I hear that. But this is, again.
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: A little hotep.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: Flirting.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: But here's my thing.
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: The reason why I'm saying it is that I think
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: people think you can go from foreplay to intercourse, meaning penis, vagina,
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: or hand, vagina.
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: Like, that's what people do. They're like, foreplay, nipple, nipple, whatever.
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: And then I'm going to the inter.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: You're not getting the question right. No one's talking about
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: the outer.
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: Nobody's talking about outer course, which is its own destination.
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: Maybe it is the destination for the evening.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: And so all I'm.
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: Trying to express to people, when I used to teach
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: sex ed all the time, I'd be like, listen up.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Foreplay.
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: Great.
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: But outer course, you can hang out there for a
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: little while before you do inner course. Especially for people
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: who have trouble coming. It all feels like it's happening
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: too fast. Like, outer course is... It's a bridge and
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: it can be a long bridge, but people think the
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: bridge is foreplay to intercourse. I'm saying foreplay, outer course, intercourse.
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: I definitely think for foreplay plus. Yes.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: I definitely think for the men that are there just
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: for self-pleasure, which becomes the issue, then that's where I
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: see it. But for my partners and people that I
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: see that are maybe more lifestyle or more pleasure-seeking men,
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: And when I say pleasure-seeking, not just for themselves, but
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: also they get pleasure out of pleasing.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Totally. They there. Yeah, but the lifestyle community, I don't
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: have to talk to them. They understand. Valid. I'm talking
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: to just, like, you niggas. Y'all. I mean, I think
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: we got, like, the JC. They figuring it out. You
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: know what I actually think?
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: Anybody interested in content like this already has the ear
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: for it.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: And even if you're not there yet, I think it's.
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: The willingness to even learn. If you got 30 minutes
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: into this episode, if you're already here, you're already there
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: and wanting to learn enough.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: A hundred percent.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: I'm all about not knowing, but being open to learning.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, me too.
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: That's probably why I think a few weeks ago I
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: was like, if a guy comes quick, like it doesn't
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: bother me. It's just now what?
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: There'll be another time. Yeah.
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: I'm really cool with mistakes and blip-ups during sex because
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: it's not always meant to be perfect. But outer course
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: is something where I'm, I don't know if I've ever
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: intentionally done it, but now I think I will.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And that's a win. That's really it.
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: Like my whole premise with teaching about sex ed and
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: the body, women's health, is really giving people more precise
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: language to help them better understand what they need and
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: what they want to give. And that's why when people
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: are like, oh, BDSM, it's all like leather and dungeon.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: I'm like, not at all. Not at all. Not at all.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: It is about boundaries. It is about consent.
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: It is about clarity it's about articulation and that to
• 29:19
  Speaker 4: me is actually what's the most exciting thing about that the.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: Problem about that is people that aren't familiar with it
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: think that's so.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Unsexy no it's very sexy it.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Can be very sexy it is sexy when done correctly
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: but people feel like that's the boring part actually that's
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: just like the.
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: Hetero like patriarchal energy where we don't talk yep it
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: needs to like I cannot even express the fact that
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: the whole thing of not having to communicate is Where
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: people think, oh, it's so sexy, she just.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Or they just know what I want. Like, to me,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: that is patriarchy.
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: I think that the most, like, feminine thing that we
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: can do is actually talk about what we want and
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: also talk about it after it's happened.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: So with the sex, do you feel like now it's been,
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: because you've been with a man, you've been married to
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: a man, that that conversation is easier to be had with.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Another woman than a man? I had a really... cool
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: first husband. Okay. Very cool. First husband.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: He was really, he's a good, great communicator. Super open.
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: I'm, I'm kind of no nonsense, no bullshit when it
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: comes to dating, sex, all of that. Like I will
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: not settle for less. It's giving. There's no, it's not
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: a sale. I'm going to, I'm getting it full price.
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: Like I don't play. No.
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: When you started it though, when you started your relationship
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: with him, were you this person? Always.
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, actually, because I grew up in a home like
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: a very traumatic family origin. God bless them. They gave
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: me a lot of good things. They also gave me
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: a lot of challenging things. But I grew up knowing that, no,
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: you deserve blank, whatever it is. And so that didn't
• 30:53
  Speaker 4: just mean like in my life or in work or
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: in like, you know, career. It also meant in relationships.
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: And so I've always been very picky. Like I'm not
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: someone who like I would never date someone if they
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: were not one hundred and fifty five percent into me.
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: Like that's, that's actually the floor. The floor is obsession.
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: If you're not obsessed with me, we're not doing this.
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to try to like make you like
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: what I don't, I don't even have the energy for that.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: I'm literally allergic to that.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: I wish I learned that sooner.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: Like I didn't learn that till my 30s.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: But a lot of, yeah, you try to convince yourself
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: and sell yourself and.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Now, oh, fuck no. Hell no. You don't like it?
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: Great.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Somebody else will. I can absolutely go and you can
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: go too. It's fine.
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: And so that always set up sex to be really
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: mutualistic and like dialed in because we could just get
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: into it, you know? So, yeah, that's kind of like
• 31:50
  Speaker 4: the way that I see it. But in terms of
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: going from men to women.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: It's very, it's very different.
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: And I'm also versed in my relationship. As I said,
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: when we were on our trip, it's not giving pillow princess.
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: It's not giving, you know, I don't know.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: You're a switch.
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: Can I tell you how I knew you were gay?
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: How'd you know I was a gay girl?
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: I don't know. And I want to know if you've
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: ever had this from other women.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: Screaming. Actually.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: I arrived to Brooke's, shout out to Brooke. We were,
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: the Turks and Caicos brunch, like the welcoming brunch at
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: a hotel. I sat next to Erica. And when she
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: talked to me, she touched me. And not in a
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: sexual way at all.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: No, I'm a toucher.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: She was just like, oh, and this, and oh, look
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: at this. And not scared to touch. And I've learned
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: that many women have an uncomfortability with platonic touch with
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: other women. And that generally speaking, the women that don't
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: are probably gay. It was almost like automatic for me.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: I don't get to have that connection often with women
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: because In a way where I feel like I grew
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: up in a house that was very warm. So sometimes
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: doing that with my homegirls, they'd be like, girl, because
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: we sexualize everything. And I was like, oh, she's gay.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: And it's not just you. It's not your nails that
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: are very gay.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Very gay.
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: For anyone listening and not viewing us on YouTube right now,
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: they are absolutely clean, short, no polish.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: No polish.
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, ready to go.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Ready to go. At any time. Period. Same.
• 33:22
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Okay. I see you. Same. Yes. Because how else? How else? Oh,
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: these aren't going in nothing. No. And anyone with these
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: ain't coming to me. And that's the thing, too.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: I'm someone who, I feel like I'm the 10% of
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: women that enjoy love and need penetration.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: That's why I'm not all the way gay. Like, I
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: could go without it.
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: Wait, you said 10% of women that need it.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: No, no. I'm saying.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: There's a very small percentage of women that come internally.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: That's a stat. And it might be... It's a very
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: small percentage.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: I actually think it's lower than 10.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know the number, but for me, I come,
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: I squirt, I do all of that, but only through
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: internal intercourse.
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: So, outercourse for a long time wasn't necessary even for me. Yeah, yeah.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: I enjoy giving it.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: But not fully receiving it because of that.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: I get that.
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: So.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: Because of that?
• 34:16
  Speaker 5: Oh, no.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: I like, I know you. Hello. Hello. Hello.
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: So, yes. Round it out, please. I brought up the
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: touchiness being something while you were, while we're getting to, like,
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: going from having a husband to having a woman in
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: your life and being, and having a fiance. Yeah.
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: I mean, like, I do want to touch back on
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: what you said about being touchy. I feel like I
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: grew up in a super warm home, too, as much
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: as there were challenges. A lot of physical touch. And
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: then also, like, as a doula, I'm just a physical person.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Person, too. And I've always been like that since I've
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: been little. I'm like a sensory person. Yeah, I don't
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: think that's a gay thing.
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: But I don't want to discount it, though, because I
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: do think that I mean, at least in my experience
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: with other gay women, I do feel like there is comfort.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: There's more comfort with just being close.
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: Queer women generally can understand lines between touching platonically and sexually,
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: whereas when they aren't, I think it's the apprehension of, oh,
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: why are you touching me? Why does this exist? I've
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: just noticed it. It's definitely not like 100% all the way,
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: but it was something that made me go, oh, okay. Like,
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: especially because we were just talking for two minutes.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: So to be that comfortable with women you don't know,
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: it's just something you don't really see often. Not in
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: a sober setting. Not at two o'clock in the afternoon.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we hadn't had any drinks yet, but also you
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: had great energy.
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: Oh, thank you. So you wanted to touch me and
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: fuck me. So anyway, okay.
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Husband. Yes.
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: Were you always non-monogamous? No. And how did this come
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: about into a marriage?
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: Well, we were together for about nine years. We were
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: not always, we were monogamous for the first seven years
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: of relationship.
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: And then moved into non-monogamy because of me. I think,
• 36:04
  Speaker 4: you know, towards the end of my marriage, I probably,
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: I like to say I was like army crawling my
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: way towards women. Like I'm on the floor, like just
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: inch by inch, I'm going to get there. And I'm
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: so grateful that he was open and had the elasticity
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: to get into it with me.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: You know, unlike now.
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: Sorry, I'm only smiling because I'm like, I just know
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: a man being like, yeah, we need women in here.
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: You would think men would be so open to it,
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: but they're not always.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Because when you offered, when you called your way to women,
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: was it first that they would join the two of you?
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: Or was it that, hey... I really would like a
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: female companion. And he allowed you to have it outside
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: of him. Cause that's like where, where because I'm bisexual, men.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: Be like, Ooh, yes. Threesomes.
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: And I'd be like, sometimes I might want like in,
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: in my last relationship or the one before last, cause
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: I wasn't really fucking women with my, with my last partner.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: But the one before that, I remember like him feeling
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: really upset that I played with a friend without him.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: Cause we had played with everyone together. And I was.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: Like, Well, I don't always want a man in the
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: room either.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, of course. Like, not always. Not with this particular person.
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. I actually have a specific question that kind
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: of ties to both of you. Your ex you're talking
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: about where you guys didn't play with women together wasn't
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: really into play parties or like.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: No, no. He was monogamous.
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: And now you're monogamous. Mm-hmm.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: Very monogamous.
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: Okay. Do you feel like you could date somebody again
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: that wasn't into that?
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: And how?
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: So Mandy's shaking her head no for this. You couldn't.
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: And for you, I've always thought that non-monogamous people are
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: generally that in spirit. How does it work out and
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: play out in your relationship today being monogamous when you
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: weren't before? Is it because you're more satisfied because you
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: have a woman now or?
• 38:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, for me, it's just like I'm with the right
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: person in the right relationship and don't need much else.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: And see, because you don't you don't desire men anymore sexually, correct?
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: I don't. You know, it's really funny because I've always
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: been so you can't see me. I'm not standing up.
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: I'm like five to on a good day type situation.
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: You know, men and me, it's a structural thing. It's
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: a height differential thing. So I find myself, if I'm
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: in the room with men, this kind of like primal
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: thing comes up with men at a certain height.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: That just makes me be like, that's really nice. Not
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: that I want to date them. Not that I want
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: to have sex with them or anything. It's just like
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: that kind of, you know, natural imperative size.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Size difference. That size differential comes up. That's interesting you
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: said natural.
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: Well, it's natural to something that is smaller to have
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: a response to something that's bigger than them.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: I experienced that a lot. I'm talking about 6'1, 6'2, 6'3. 6'7.
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: Like that thing makes me be like. Wow.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: You just made me think of something I'd never considered. Yeah.
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: We had a foursome with two lesbians, one who had
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: never had sex with a man. And although there was
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: no penetrative sex with my partner and her. I don't
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: know how. He's not a really crazy muscular guy. Like
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: he does kind of things. He works out his fit.
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: I don't know how many times she called him big.
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: And I was kind of laughing to myself like, it's.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: Not big but she compared to women no but.
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: Now I'm not in my brain thinking her instinctive thing
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: to say to him is like this is big this
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: is big this is big And this is him not
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: being naked. We're not talking dick yet. Like she actually
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: wasn't as interested in his dick more than she was
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: his body. And I wonder, because you said a natural
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: response to something being bigger.
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: I kept thinking about that moment too, but not more
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: so for the thing of like, is she objectifying him
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: because he was black? Is she in this space? Because
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: it's like, oh, this is fun because it's a guy
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: and I'm masked. And now I get to look at
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: the opposite.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: It just always. You went into this.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Leaving an E & M relationship, you went into this
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: monogamous or was it like she's also a monogamous woman
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: so that you guys don't play with other women together either?
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: Because I get the idea of men, but also there's
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: no even bringing more women into the play.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: Because for me, I think when I think of E & M,
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: the reason why I can't ever see myself being with
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: someone monogamous is because I'm going to be with a man.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: I want to romantically be with a man. but I
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: will always want women as well. And I don't want
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: someone to shut that part of me off.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I get that. So for me, it's really the
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: allowance of women to come into the fight.
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: But what's interesting is your answer to monogamy now. You said,
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: I'm with the right person now. Do you think that
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: people that are non-monogamous, like one of my very, one
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: of my closest friend, if not best, Breonda said, she's
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: sitting on the couch with me and my man while
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: we're talking about other people and sex with other people.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: She's like... guys are gonna you guys are gonna stop
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: all this shit and this is before we engage she's
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: like i don't believe it i don't buy it you
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: guys are too close you're gonna have that baby and
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: never leave the house and it bothered me so much
• 41:19
  Speaker 3: i know she didn't know it bothered me first control
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: alarm sorry right when i said baby oh that was
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: scary uh it bothered me a little bit because i
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: was like but she's known me as an ethically non-monogamous
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: person since she's met me and before why does everybody
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: in my life feel like I'll just wrap it up soon?
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: But you said the right person. So did your non-monogamy
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: start because you're not satisfied?
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so.
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: You think so? Yeah.
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: Because now, like, I don't really, like, I am so
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: attracted to my partner and I'm also so in love
• 41:51
  Speaker 4: with her and she's very unique. That's also my thing
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: with I mean, I'm not dating anymore, but like when
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: I would date, I'm very attracted to unusual, unique people
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: that aren't easy to replicate. Like I'm always looking for
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: things that are kind of like, oh, it's. And so
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: I don't know if that's something I'm doing subconsciously. I'm
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: obviously consciously talking about it, but she's not replaceable. And
• 42:16
  Speaker 4: there's not like a, oh, like, oh, maybe that could
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: be nicer.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: It's like she's just it.
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: But is that non-monogamy, though? That's not it for me.
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: My thing is more like sexual experience, thoughts that could
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: come up. It's never really replacing.
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, the thing is, like, our sexual chemistry is, like,
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: really special, too. It's like I don't even know if
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: it could be recreated in the way that I want
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: it or the way that she wants it with another person.
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: We're both very intense. So there's also that part, too. Okay.
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: Wait, I got to show Mandy the picture we took
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: on the bus.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. You're basically her man's sister.
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: We sat on the bus and talked about having a
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: double date. And I said, oh, this is him. And
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: she said, this is her. She said.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: Screaming. Wait a minute. My girl was like, oh, this
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: is my brother. I said, ma'am.
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: Mandy. Are we dating the same person?
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: That's funny. Yeah. I mean, didn't someone say your man
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: looks like a famous woman? Oh, my God. Me too.
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: My man looks like Tracy Chapman. The masculine Tracy Chapman.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: Does your woman look like Tracy Chapman? Maybe a light skin.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: Tracy Chapman.
• 43:30
  Speaker 4: A little freckled version. But they have very similar, like,
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: shaping of their head. Their heads are similar.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: The dreads. The length.
• 43:38
  Speaker 5: Now.
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: I wonder for you, because we were talking about this
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: and maybe people were baiting us up to it, but
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: here's what I'm curious of. Not because you said it
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: was intense and I'm horny. Do women threaten the relationship?
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: You said maybe a random guy at some point on
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: a vacation. What aspect of non-monogamy do you guys ever
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: think you could think of? Because it was a part
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: of your life. And it was a part of hers, correct?
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: But it was also being, it was a part of
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: your life, though, when you were unfulfilled.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: I think that's different.
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: Was hers because she was unfulfilled?
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: I think it was just when you're young, you know? Like,
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: when you're young.
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: And again, like, one of the kind of axioms or, like,
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: you know, kind of, like, rules in our relationship is, like,
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: I don't speak for her, right? So in terms of
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: even thinking about this, like, she would just need to
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: be here and she could give her POV on it all.
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: You know, I mean, it's very black in our home.
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: There's very specific... thing yeah i.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: Don't speak but i don't feel like everybody i speak
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: for myself i know that's right okay all.
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: Right cool had there been any times in your non-monogamous
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: dynamic where you failed at the rules needed to change
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: the rules realized that your intensity for women was more
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: than maybe a casualness like what what is that conversation like.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: With my ex-husband or with her. Yeah.
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think he always knew that I was queer.
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: I brought it up really early in our relationship, you know?
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: So I think it's one of those things where it's like,
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: you take the gamble, right? You know, I don't think
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: he knew how much it really meant to me and
• 45:12
  Speaker 4: how important it was to me. I mean, I grew
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: up in a Catholic Nigerian home. There's not a lot
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: of space for me to be like.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: I'm gay.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: Because they would be like, No, you're not.
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: I was very much like eldest daughter, perfect. So I
• 45:33
  Speaker 4: think for me, like I got married really young, really
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: just to get away from my family so that I
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: would no longer be like their responsibility and I could
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: have more, you know, freedom and, you know, and autonomy.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: And so I think he always knew. He always knew
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: that you liked women.
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: And I think in the back of his head, that's
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: what I'm saying. It's like, I always think to myself,
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: it's like, if I were with a partner or a
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: person and he told me that he was into men,
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: I would immediately clock that and be like, okay, this
• 46:01
  Speaker 4: is going to be a risk.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: But I'm open. Okay.
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: Is your breakup conversation private, the thing he said to you?
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: Which part? You can say it and we can edit
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: it out.
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, yeah. When he said, I'm doing this, like,
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: for you?
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes. I mean, no, I don't think that that's private.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think.
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: Could you talk about that? That was so impactful to
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: me when you said that. It's been on my mind
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: ever since that trip.
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: Well, basically, like, the simplest way to tell the story
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: is when my ex-husband and I were separating and starting
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: to go through our divorce, I really wanted to make
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: it work. You know, I was still kind of questioning
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: my identity and I was.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: Kind of like, I don't know, like, da-da-da-da-da. And he
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: was just like.
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: no, we're not getting back together because I love you
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: and you will thank me for this one day, but
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: you are gay.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: So we're not going to do this.
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: And I was like, you know, I remember I was
• 46:48
  Speaker 4: like crying and I was like, no, I don't want
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: to die.
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: But he was right. A hundred percent right.
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: Very smart man. Have you guys ever had that conversation
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: where you were like, okay, yeah.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: You did me a solid one. Yeah. Yeah, we're still friends.
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: OK.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, he did me a big, big, big solid.
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: And he also is respectful of the fact that, like,
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: you know, I think our relationship could be even more extensive. But,
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: you know, the preference is to have a nice boundary
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: between that part of my life and this life.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: And so I'm very.
• 47:18
  Speaker 4: I'm very conscious of, like, nurturing that boundary.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: I wonder if there would be any PTSD he has
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: for non-monogamy.
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: Oh my God, yeah.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: Because the idea always is the risk. You could have
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: all the boundaries. Huge risk. You could have all the language,
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: the communication, the love, the chemistry. Don't matter.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: And when you bring someone else in or when you
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: allow other people to come in, there is always a
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: risk that this person can connect more with someone else.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: Even if you're the primary, even if you're the anchor,
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: even if you're the wife, even if there's always the
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: risk that they could find solace or more in someone else.
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, that's such a great thing to say
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: because my homegirl and I were at a dinner where
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: I was the only ethically nominous person and the only
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: engaged person or married, quote unquote, like there were, you know,
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: everybody else, maybe long-term relationship. And when people asked if
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: they thought that helped my relationship or whatever, I was like, yes,
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: if you ask either of us separately, we've both agreed
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: It definitely increases the sexiness. There's a particular weird kink
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: I've always had for cut queening. And there's been a
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: few times where I've had an intensity for him to
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: finish sex with someone else so we could start talking
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: about it and he could start telling me about it
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: and like walking me through it. And like, I've always
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: loved that no matter which partner I've ever had. And
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: while I was talking about the risks, I really felt
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: like the women at this table were condemning it. And
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: I was like, well, wait a minute. Has anyone ever
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: been cheated on? So technically all of your relationships have
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: the same risk as mine. Like I don't really think
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: a non-monogamy or monogamous relationships like outweigh each other on either.
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: Some people tell me my relationship is very complicated. I
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: actually think monogamy can be complicated because y'all are trying
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: to figure out what makes you jealous and what's okay
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: and blah, blah, blah. To me, it's all the same.
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: We are truly at a point in time where there
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: are so much language around the types of relationship you
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: can have that to me, that actually makes the complications happen.
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: My only arguments about non-monogamy, it's never about us doing
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: things with someone else. It's mainly like, hold on, did
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: you know this? Or I didn't know this. Or maybe
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: I'm feeling icky about this. Let's make a new rule. Like,
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: it's really just kind of figuring it out the layers
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: because you can never start perfectly.
• 49:45
  Speaker 4: It's messy by design, but I also think the messiness
• 49:49
  Speaker 4: creates more intimacy if you're both on the same page.
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: It can.
• 49:53
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 49:53
  Speaker 4: Like, I think, I always used to say like, polyamory
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: is like just so much, well, my friend actually, Amber Phillips,
• 49:59
  Speaker 4: made like a queer, she's a lesbian comedian and she
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: did this joke That was online talking about how polyamory
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: is like so much more about talking and calendar invites,
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: you know, than actually fucking, which I think is true.
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: It's like.
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's.
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's funny.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, but it's it's high communication.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: Not only is it high communication, people think that poly
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: is only for people that want to fuck mad other people.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: But it's about.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: Someone not fully being able to be your everything, which
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: I think is the reality of human beings.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: A hundred percent.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: And so it's finding other people that fit in. It
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: could just be friendship. Like there's poly couples where you're
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: with someone, but not y'all don't have sex at all,
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: but they're one of your partners.
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: I actually didn't think that was real until a recent partner.
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: She basically was telling us, yeah, like, I have partners
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: I don't have sex with. And I'm just like.
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, I say it all the time. Crystal and Asante.
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, no. We poly. I'm talking about
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: with romantic interest. Partners she doesn't have sex with, with
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: romantic interest. Okay. And there's no sex there. And I'm like, oh,
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: so you have friends. She's like, no, I have my friends.
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: And then I have partners within my poly dynamic that
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: I don't have sex with. She's like deep intimate connections
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: where that's also friendship. But she's like, We're very attracted
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: to each other. We spend time embracing each other, sleepovers.
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: She's like celebratory things. But like sex doesn't exist. And I,
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: when you just said.
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know how romance exists without sex, but I guess.
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: Nah, I think it can.
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: Because what is... I mean, there's asexual people. What is dating?
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: So, yeah.
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's asexual people or people with trauma and
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: things like that.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: So, okay.
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: Totally. I mean, I'm sure that sex isn't the thing
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: that makes you feel like you're having a romantic moment
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: with someone necessarily.
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: Sometimes romantic... For me, it does.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: I can get the people that... don't have sex because
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: of a reason to.
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: And also there's different kinds of love.
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: You know, there's eros, which is actually like having sex.
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: Oh, let's walk us through these. Wait, eros means what?
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: Because I know that to be the site for the escort.
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: Please hold.
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: Give me phone. That is. I don't have my phone.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: Eros is the. There's four different kinds of love.
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: Oh, I cannot wait for you to dig into this.
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: Let me go on Chrome.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: Eros. And I pronounce it as eros, but now I
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: know it's eros.
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: Eros.
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: I was like, I done bought some pussy on there
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: and I know some people selling it on that whole thing.
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: So what you talking about?
• 52:31
  Speaker 4: So it's from ancient Greece. It's from Greek language. So
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: there are eight distinct types of love.
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's too much.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: Wait. Wait, girl, not for your show. Not for your show.
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: The Greeks, we've been around a long time. So there's eros.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: So eros is romantic, passionate love, right? It's chemistry. It's romance.
• 52:52
  Speaker 4: And then there's philia, which is affectionate, platonic love, which
• 52:55
  Speaker 4: might be what your person is talking about, like friends,
• 53:00
  Speaker 4: but not romance.
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: But they're not actually acting on it.
• 53:03
  Speaker 4: Then there's storage or S-T-O-R-G-E, storge, storge. I'm seeing the
• 53:12
  Speaker 4: phonetics here. Storge, it's a natural instinctive affection found within families.
• 53:18
  Speaker 4: It's the unconditional bond between parents and children. Then there's agape,
• 53:22
  Speaker 4: which is selfless, universal love, highest form of radical love.
• 53:26
  Speaker 4: And then there is ludos, which is lighthearted, flirtatious, and fun, playful,
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: uncommitted love. Pragma, enduring, mature love that develops over a
• 53:36
  Speaker 4: long period of time. It's like a quick burn. So
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: Eros is also like a quick burn. Pragma is what
• 53:41
  Speaker 4: happens over time. And then there is philata, which is self-love.
• 53:50
  Speaker 4: And then there's mania, which is obsessive love.
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: That was awesome. Right?
• 53:55
  Speaker 4: It's like it's important to know because, again, it's like,
• 53:58
  Speaker 4: I'm not only trying to bring everything back to BDSM,
• 54:02
  Speaker 4: but that environment is one of the places where like
• 54:05
  Speaker 4: the words mean something.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. This means something.
• 54:08
  Speaker 4: And when you start to create buckets to put things in,
• 54:12
  Speaker 4: it's freedom, actually.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: The buckets of freedom.
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: We just talked about this.
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: Go on, girl.
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: No, no, no. Like literally maybe an hour before you,
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: where we talked about how, what was it? Terms for
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: polyamory can get confusing, but why doesn't it in BDSM?
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: And I was saying, I think it's because with BDSM,
• 54:28
  Speaker 3: It's a tangible thing you could see. And the relationship
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: definitions are like, well, okay, you're my primary, but you're
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: my this, but you're my that. It's honestly why right-leaning
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: people make fun of us. Because we all sound confused.
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: I believe this. Not that I'm confused about my own
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: relationship with you or yours. But we're actually always confused
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: about each other's, it seems. Okay, wait, so you're blah, blah, blah?
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: I've seen people that are lifestyle, that are sex educators.
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: Everyone all seems to be slightly confused about surrounding how
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: other people carry on relationships. And why it can be difficult, though,
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: is because how can we respect all of each other's
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: boundaries sometimes if it's just a title? How am I
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: to know that your nesting partner is cool with you
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: sleeping over at my house or that your primary partner
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: is okay with you having another romantic connection? It's like
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: we all kind of made up our own shit. And
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: I love this because it's really helpful to know what
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: you would expect from someone, too, or what you would like.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: Totally.
• 55:24
  Speaker 4: And also to the language, like that's ancient language. It's
• 55:27
  Speaker 4: been around for a very long time. So it's like
• 55:30
  Speaker 4: you can back your way into it. I think that
• 55:33
  Speaker 4: what's going on now with language is like it's all new.
• 55:36
  Speaker 4: You know, we're developing it kind of as we go.
• 55:38
  Speaker 4: And I think that's a beautiful thing because I love
• 55:41
  Speaker 4: language and I love like seeing a lexicon like explode
• 55:43
  Speaker 4: and change. But it is confusing when it comes to
• 55:46
  Speaker 4: like adoption within the poly world because again, with BDSM,
• 55:52
  Speaker 4: it is so specific and you know what the end
• 55:55
  Speaker 4: goal is.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: Polyamory doesn't really have an end goal, you know? I
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: don't have an end goal. It's not really clear.
• 56:00
  Speaker 4: And I think that lack of clarity is very stressful
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: for a lot of people.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: Hence, people just aren't, it's confusing. It can be.
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: I'm not, and again, like I'm not subscribing to the confusion.
• 56:13
  Speaker 4: I'm just labeling it and saying that it is there.
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: I love that you said that because I think, It is,
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: with no end goal, sometimes confusing because generally we partner
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: with someone for an end. I'm not even saying marriage.
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: The end goal could just be like long-term relationship. There
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: was a woman that I used to sleep with, with
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: my partner currently, and we were all out and one
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: of her homegirls was like, how do y'all know each other?
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: And she was like, can I?
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: I was like, yeah.
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: And she's like, oh, we're not sleeping together right now,
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: but we do sometimes. And so we haven't fucked her
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: in two years. And I was like, that's interesting at
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: some time. So when I asked her in a text later,
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: why'd you say sometimes? She was like, because it doesn't
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: feel like it's ever a no or there's an end.
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: It's just we were more into it like we once were.
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: And we started talking about it. She was like, this
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: is just so normal for me as a poly person. Like,
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: nothing went wrong. I'll just be in New York too much.
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: I'll be out here. Like, nothing is wrong. And it's
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: very understandable. I think more of us need to be
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: open to that idea.
• 57:12
  Speaker 4: Of just like, literally being open and just not really
• 57:17
  Speaker 4: judging frequency too.
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: Because I think that's the other thing too.
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: People think about poly and they think about frequency and
• 57:23
  Speaker 4: how many times and for how many years and it's
• 57:26
  Speaker 4: like that, that is one approach to it. But I
• 57:29
  Speaker 4: think as much as possible, it's so important to like
• 57:31
  Speaker 4: pull the patriarchy out of poly because, you know, if you,
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: if you, if you're really living in patriarchy and poly,
• 57:38
  Speaker 4: it's all about okay, scheduling, and, like, let's do this
• 57:41
  Speaker 4: or that, and you're my primary, secondary, tertiary. It's, like,
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: if we just get into, like, the more feminine piece
• 57:48
  Speaker 4: of just, like, there's more to go around, and we'll
• 57:51
  Speaker 4: get it to go around when we can, you know.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: Bitch, that makes me tired. But that's what it is, though.
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: It is like that, though.
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: That's really why.
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: You know, my boyfriend number two I see once a quarter,
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: and that's plenty, but we talk every day. So, like,
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: our dynamic is what that is compared to my other
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: partner who I see every month.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: So, yeah.
• 58:11
  Speaker 4: And also, like, it's figuring out the right dosage, right, of, like,
• 58:14
  Speaker 4: this or that or the other thing. So, I mean,
• 58:16
  Speaker 4: I just know now because of how busy my life
• 58:19
  Speaker 4: is and, again, also just how ideal the person that
• 58:23
  Speaker 4: I'm with is, it's just not even of interest.
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: Ugh, I feel that so much with someone that we're
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: dating together right now. She is a creative that comes
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: in town every so often, you know, New York, L.A.,
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: we're out. And the next three times she's in town,
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: I'm not here. And I was like, he kind of
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: mentioned to me, he's like, this is a little off
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: for me to see somebody every single, like, and I'm like, no,
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: I feel what you're saying. He's like, if we're dating
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: her together, maybe once. He's like, but at that point,
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: like when you're busy, it's, damn hard to fuck a
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: lot of people yeah anyway we want a lot of
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: people to tune into bodies where are they gonna find
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: it when does it come out every week is it
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: coming all at one time can we binge it like
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: a netflix show bitch are we committed to you for.
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: Weeks and months you're committed to me for life. Forever.
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: You want a gafe with us.
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, I want a gafe full on all the way.
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I'm going to basically it's research driven.
• 59:19
  Speaker 4: So there will be big drops at least once a month.
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: And we're talking like 30 to 50 minute videos, like
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: digging in on a singular topic. It's giving, it's giving nerd,
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: but like positive. And it's on YouTube. So it's YouTube
• 59:35
  Speaker 4: at bodied with Erica. You can also find me at
• 59:38
  Speaker 4: bodied with Erica.com on the socials, just my name, Erica Chitty.
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: And then you also can find bodied because I own
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: the word bodied on Instagram.
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: You own the word bodied. That's right. Thank you.
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: Y'all go and check us out. No holes barred is
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: our book. Go buy Nurtured. Nurture as well by Erica Chidi.
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: I'm sure they sell them in the same place, baby.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: They do.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: Patreon.com backslash Horrible Decisions. We'll see you next week.