Latest / Start Me Up with Kimberley A. Johnson / Start Me Up: Qasim Rashid, Esq.

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Start Me Up: Qasim Rashid, Esq. · Start Me Up with Kimberley A. Johnson

0:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Start Me Up podcast part of MSW Media and the sexy liberal podcast network.
0:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host Kimberly Johnson in DC and today my guest has Cossam Rashid.
0:23
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a human rights lawyer, author, serious XM host, and he's the creator of the Let's Address This Substance.
0:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to talk to him today because he wrote this wonderful article about that rape academy.
0:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to get into it, but before we do, the Start Me Up podcast is independent and woman run.
0:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I offer a show every Tuesday just for patrons called What's Up where I get a little more personal and talk about whatever's on my mind.
0:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I also offer an ad free tier with a much shorter intro.
0:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Just visit patreon.com slash start me up.
0:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Look at the different tiers and support the show today.
0:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Now please enjoy my conversation with Kossam Rashid.
0:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the show Kossam.
1:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Great to be here, Kimberly.
1:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for having me.
1:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so grateful to have you.
1:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you're totally awesome.
1:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was doing some research because I told everybody in the intro.
1:09
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to be talking about that piece that you wrote on the online rape academy.
1:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, it's just so impureating.
1:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so glad you wrote it.
1:17
[SPEAKER_01]: But before we get into that, I did, you know, I talked about your sub-stack.
1:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And I talked about the fact that you're an alloyer and all of that.
1:25
[SPEAKER_01]: But...
1:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Just doing my research, I'm going to do this really quick and then I just want you to talk about it.
1:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So I found an article or actually it was a video of when you were running for office in Virginia in 2020 and some, I believe, Mega Man, so I won't even repeat it and I don't remember exactly what he said, but he just said something horrible about you because you're a
1:50
[SPEAKER_01]: and you responded to him and not only like I know that you saw that he was looking for he had to go find me for medical bills and long story short you basically helped him get those medical bills covered and you changed his mind so because you're a good person and I just want to hear that story please please share from your perspective.
2:11
[SPEAKER_03]: We live in a time of immense divisiveness, and a lot of that has been empowered by Donald Trump, and what he's being called as a truth-teller, but it's actually just unbarnished bigotry.
2:24
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is a person who saw that I was running for office, as an American who happens to be Muslim, and felt that it was his picture out of duty to send me some really nasty anti-Muslim remarks.
2:36
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, normally I just block and move on because I don't have time to deal with these trolls go.
2:41
[SPEAKER_03]: I also happen to believe that health care is a human right, and every human being has a dignity to health care.
2:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
2:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Which is why, you know, I'm sick and tired of politicians who want this for profit-exploited system, which is literally killing people.
2:55
[SPEAKER_03]: Long short of it, I noticed that he had to go find me because his wife had a crippling health condition, and they were about 25,000 in debt.
3:04
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I just did what I could, you know, when you're running for office, you don't have much money because, you know, when you're not in the family, well, you don't have much money.
3:12
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I donated about 50, 55 bucks with campaign and said, hey, this guy, and I tweeted out that this guy hates me because of my faith, my faith calls me to serve all humanity.
3:20
[SPEAKER_03]: So I've donated to his go find me in hopes to help him cover his healthcare costs, and if you feel compelled, do the same.
3:28
[SPEAKER_03]: I unexpectedly, it went viral and within 20 hours his entire medical bill was covered in full and the reaction from him was very positive and he responded very apologetically and asked if we could meet which it turned out.
3:47
[SPEAKER_03]: He actually ended up being a quasi-nabri.
3:51
[SPEAKER_03]: He lived just a couple of miles down the road.
3:53
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think to me that was another reminder that while a lot of these trolls maybe bots hiding behind a screen in some other country, somewhere else in the world, there's enough of our fellow Americans who have bought into this disinformation campaign.
4:06
[SPEAKER_03]: And sometimes it can be a good thing to find ways to build bridges.
4:10
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't expect everyone to do that.
4:11
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't expect anyone to be the martyr for the cause.
4:14
[SPEAKER_03]: But for me, it worked out really well in that situation.
4:16
[SPEAKER_03]: And we were able to show just a living, breathing example that we don't actually have to have a politics of hate.
4:21
[SPEAKER_03]: We can't have a politics of compassion and unity, especially in these difficult times.
4:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So let me ask you, before we get into this whole piece that you wrote, I do just kind of want to ask you,
4:32
[SPEAKER_01]: How you're feeling right now?
4:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm gonna, like Greg Oliar wrote a piece, I think it was last year on his sub-stack, where he was kind of comparing the differences between the early rise of Hitler and what's happening in America.
4:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was basically saying that there was no resistance, there was no resistance from the media, there was no resistance from the government, there was no resistance from the people.
4:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And that we have that on our side.
5:02
[SPEAKER_01]: kind of the thing like they I think these fascists are coming in fast and hard as opposed to slowly boiling the frog right where people are seeing the results of the fascism very quickly as opposed to slow baking it in where they don't really realize what's going on.
5:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So I wanted to ask him and I don't I don't think we're out of trouble or anything like that.
5:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously we've got a world of trouble that we're dealing with and will for a while.
5:29
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, are you feeling hopeful, do you see what do you see when you see our American government right now, even though it's like falling apart and what I'm going to stop this right?
5:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I'll say two things.
5:39
[SPEAKER_03]: One, I'm always hopeful.
5:40
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm, I'm an eternal optimist.
5:42
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, James Baldwin has a great quote where he's asked about his despair for the world and he corrects the journalist and says, I'm angry at the world, but I don't despair.
5:50
[SPEAKER_03]: because I can't tell my children that there's no hope, and I think it's exactly right.
5:55
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm a neutral optimist.
5:56
[SPEAKER_03]: I look at our world history, I look at our American history, and we see dark times.
6:01
[SPEAKER_03]: We see times of immense injustice and dehumanization of black people and of women and of indigenous communities and of immigrant communities.
6:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And we pushed past through extraordinary efforts, no doubt about it, but I feel confident that we will overcome that hope is everlasting.
6:19
[SPEAKER_03]: the second part of your question about how I feel about the American government.
6:22
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to be very clear.
6:24
[SPEAKER_03]: I believe that Donald Trump, as horrible as he is, is not the cause of our problems.
6:31
[SPEAKER_03]: He's he's a manifestation of the injustices.
6:36
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think one of the biggest mistakes of the Democratic Party makes is they try to paint him as the root cause of every problem that
6:45
[SPEAKER_03]: True.
6:47
[SPEAKER_03]: We can go back to moving back to Nixon being pardoned when he clearly committed a crime and he was pardoned Why was he pardoned if he had been held accountable it would have sent a message Yeah, what would be crop politicians that hey even the president will be held accountable I think one of the biggest mistakes ever made was to pardon Nixon You know the corruption a Ronald Reagan with Iran control he faced no accountability there
7:10
[SPEAKER_03]: The fact that the Supreme Court was allowed to steal the 2000 election with no meaningful accountability.
7:18
[SPEAKER_03]: The fact that George Bush was allowed to wage two illegal wars, kill literally millions of people, waste tens of tens of dollars, and face no accountability.
7:26
[SPEAKER_03]: The fact that Obama continued to allow Gitmo to perpetuate and increase drone strikes.
7:32
[SPEAKER_03]: I can go on and on and on.
7:34
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think the point that I want to make is that what we're seeing now, you talk about the
7:39
[SPEAKER_03]: It did not start boiling in 2015 or 2016 or in 2024.
7:42
[SPEAKER_03]: It started boiling for 40 years ago, and now the heat is much more visible at this point.
7:49
[SPEAKER_03]: I still don't think we're at a point of no return.
7:52
[SPEAKER_03]: I still believe that we can come back from this, but it is becoming much more difficult, that's true.
7:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's going to take a long, long this time, but you know, I mean, I keep saying the worst it gets, the better it's going to get because it's like, I mean, Ruth Bader Ginsburg did say the pendulum always swings.
8:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, history shows us that.
8:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And history shows us that, you know, I mean, I've been saying this forever.
8:13
[SPEAKER_01]: The more finally when people are uncomfortable as when they move, when they ask when they engage.
8:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think a lot of people are uncomfortable now.
8:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think the Democratic Party should rely on the fact that the other side is just so awful.
8:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think there are a few people in the Democratic Party right now that I really like, because they're strong and they're punching back hard and they're saying the things that, you know, we need to reform the court, we need Medicare for all.
8:39
[SPEAKER_01]: So I do think that while, you know, we're always, I mean, and I don't necessarily want to
8:44
[SPEAKER_01]: pick apart the democratic party because they are the closest thing we have to make matriarchy right now, but like any government there's corruption everywhere and there's always problems that we have to take care of.
8:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And I do see at least with this kind of like new, there's some new energy in our party and that's making me hopeful and you know, it's exciting.
9:04
[SPEAKER_03]: I agree and I mean, I think two things can be true once that
9:07
[SPEAKER_03]: the republican party is basically iridimble at this point, you know, there's really nobody that I would look at that in that party and be like, yeah, I can see them being viable.
9:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I know.
9:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Unfortunately, right?
9:18
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, maybe on the issue of the absent final, Thomas Mancik, right?
9:23
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm very narrow focus on the democratic party.
9:26
[SPEAKER_03]: There are people that I find
9:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Honestly, just as bad as Republicans, but I also find people who give me a lot of hope.
9:33
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, Senator Chris Ben Holland, I think is a great example.
9:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I love him.
9:36
[SPEAKER_03]: He's fantastic, right?
9:37
[SPEAKER_03]: And you got enough, of course, the AOCs of the world and some are Lee and I honor Presley and Elizabeth Warren.
9:42
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think there are great examples of people who are doing it, right?
9:44
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you're on the young front, you've got people like, you know, Justin Jones and Justin Pearson and Tennessee, Francisco Hong and Wisconsin, you've got, you know, some amazing candidates running for office in, I'll say I'll say it in Michigan, Salam Bhakti in Virginia.
9:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm a big fan of Grand Plattener because of the way he's running his campaign as an economic populist and early focused on not left versus right, but top versus bottom.
10:07
[SPEAKER_03]: And it goes back to the point you're making that there's just so much
10:10
[SPEAKER_03]: you know political corruption and corporate corruption that we need to get out that's infected both parties.
10:15
[SPEAKER_03]: And and that to me has to kind of be the mantra going forward that I'm interested in the candidate who recognizes that economic justice is the kind of core principle of our time.
10:27
[SPEAKER_03]: If we can ensure
10:28
[SPEAKER_03]: the people have enough to work where they live or live where they work, where they have enough to put food on the table for their kids, where they have enough to to ensure that if their kid wants something nice, they can buy it without having to sacrifice diapers.
10:45
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, basic stuff, right?
10:47
[SPEAKER_03]: No one's asking to buy a solid gold car, right?
10:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Give me a living space that is basic human dignity, and I don't think that's a lot versus right issue.
10:57
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
10:57
[SPEAKER_03]: A human dignity issue.
10:58
[SPEAKER_03]: And that only happens when we have people who are in office, who are funded by people, not by the mega corporations who are trying to draw blood from their own.
11:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So much to tackle, there's just so much, but let's take this over to what you wrote.
11:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just, first of all, I want to say that the title of the piece is men, we need to talk about rape academy.
11:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm so glad that that's how you titled it.
11:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just going to get into that.
11:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I have so many questions that I don't know if I'm going to get through all of them.
11:29
[SPEAKER_01]: However, I want to preface this by saying that, as a woman,
11:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And I will be adding in as we go through, but as a woman, you know, who has a feminist and a big mouth when it comes to all of this kind of stuff, I have seen I will say since like 2012, at least online I have seen an improvement on how men
11:50
[SPEAKER_01]: react when they hear women who are so upset.
11:54
[SPEAKER_01]: They're still getting super defensive as you know with the whole not all men thing and they get super defensive about everything but I have I've had experiences where like for instance in 2012 there was somebody who wrote a woman who wrote a blog about
12:10
[SPEAKER_01]: just everything women have to do to stay safe and you know we get these emails all the time don't go out at night look in the back city or car before you get in hold the key between your fingernails don't wear a ponytail because rapists like to pull you in the bushes with your opponent I'm like we're constantly being warned about rapists at every you know everywhere we look but then all the men are like I'm not a rapist
12:32
[SPEAKER_01]: and so anyway this guy I had posted this article and this man I said something like everyone needs to read this and he took great offense to it and basically started pounding his trust and saying how if anybody raped his daughter or his wife he'd kill them.
12:47
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, this performative bullshit, and that means nothing because he's not going to go out and kill anyone.
12:52
[SPEAKER_01]: He likes to say it online, but he's not.
12:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
12:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So you specifically say this article is not for women, and I would just like to just address why.
13:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Why did you write this for men?
13:03
[SPEAKER_03]: because it's men who are the problem here.
13:05
[SPEAKER_03]: And I mean, that's a very short simple answer.
13:08
[SPEAKER_03]: It's men who are the problem here.
13:10
[SPEAKER_03]: 98% of men who commit rape aren't going to prison.
13:14
[SPEAKER_03]: One in three minimum, women will suffer sexual assault at some point in their lifetimes at the hands of men.
13:22
[SPEAKER_03]: When a gun is present, women are 100 times more likely to be killed by that gun by a man.
13:27
[SPEAKER_03]: And the list just goes on and on and by the way, this is all a backdrop of women getting no financial autonomy until 1974 women Emerald rape still being legal until 1993.
13:39
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's just insane that we even have to have these conversations.
13:41
[SPEAKER_03]: We remember 1993.
13:43
[SPEAKER_03]: We remember these dates because there were yesterday's newspaper.
13:47
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think part of the problem that we're in right now
13:50
[SPEAKER_03]: It's so much of the framing as you just really beautifully said Kimberly is around what women need to do better or how they need to be safer.
13:57
[SPEAKER_03]: And there is comparatively a fraction of that conversation on how men need to actually be accountable for the world that's been built the way that it actually is.
14:09
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's kind of been the genesis of this entire conversation.
14:13
[SPEAKER_03]: I have another article coming out that is going to piss off men alive.
14:17
[SPEAKER_03]: And the article is titled, very simply, women are not safe or unmen, and I present the facts, just to make it extraordinarily clear that there literally is no scenario where women are safe or unmen factually speaking.
14:33
[SPEAKER_03]: Because look, we can talk all we want about, hey, be careful walking alone at night because you might get assaulted, but the facts remain, the undeniable facts remain, that the vast majority of women.
14:45
[SPEAKER_03]: 90% of women who are killed by a man knew their killer events.
14:51
[SPEAKER_03]: So you can focus on the 10% and you should, you shouldn't ignore that 10%.
14:56
[SPEAKER_03]: But 90% nine out of 10 women who are killed are killed by a guy they know.
14:59
[SPEAKER_03]: So why are we focused?
15:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Majority of the conversations are, hold your keys and your fingers or, you know, where, you know, have a, have a face or, or, you know, where some kind of a firearm on use, you can use it.
15:13
[SPEAKER_03]: When 90% are a husband or a boyfriend or a sibling or a neighbor.
15:18
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's the horrifying thing.
15:19
[SPEAKER_03]: And until men take accountability, and this is the line that I said in there, that I didn't expect this to get it.
15:23
[SPEAKER_03]: This much of a response, but it did.
15:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Was.
15:26
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think you know, we've let him talk about, but when I point it out that this is a part where men say this isn't applied to me.
15:33
[SPEAKER_03]: I've never committed rape.
15:35
[SPEAKER_03]: And I respond.
15:36
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me be direct.
15:37
[SPEAKER_03]: You do not get a cookie for not being a rapist.
15:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, and accomplishment.
15:41
[SPEAKER_03]: It is basic human decency.
15:42
[SPEAKER_03]: The absolute minimum not a ceiling.
15:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's I mean I hear that constantly.
15:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I heard that from I can't remember.
15:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it was about the rape academy, but I was just posting about rape in general and this guy who was following me on blue sky and he just kind of had the air is like this is how I would assume he was talking.
16:02
[SPEAKER_01]: You keep making this all about me and I kept trying really hard to not be an asshole and to not be sarcastic and I explained it as best I could and I said you know when women are in a room alone with a bunch of men We don't think they're all rapists, but we have to assume that they are because you know we don't know which one
16:26
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
16:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I mean, I have so many personal stories.
16:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have personal stories of rape per se, but I have personal stories of the fear and of being afraid that I was going to be, you know, I mean, I'm not going to get into all those for several reasons, but trust, you know, every woman has them and women's stories of being sexually assaulted and rape.
16:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And the last thing we need to hear from some random online is, well, I'm not doing it.
16:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Why are you painting me as a rapist?
16:52
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you're losing followers because you're just painting everyone as a rapist.
16:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's kind of the attitude that we're getting and it's fucking infuriating.
17:00
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it should be infuriating because it's also a confession.
17:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
17:04
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, imagine if I came to you randomly Kimberly and, or you said something to the effect of, you know, I hate pedophiles.
17:14
[SPEAKER_03]: And my first response is, well, I'm not a pedophile.
17:17
[SPEAKER_02]: It's wrong.
17:17
[SPEAKER_03]: When did I say you were like what are you going to be so defensive about right or if I came to you can't really inside hey by the way I just want you to know I do not have five dead bodies under my porch in my house like Who says that unless you have you definitely have five dead bodies under your porch and that's a point of trying to make out These men are like you are confessing to something hit dogs holler and your hard drive is a first one that we should be checking right
17:44
[SPEAKER_01]: OK, so you talked about systemic male violence.
17:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So I want you to talk about that beyond individual criminal acts.
17:51
[SPEAKER_01]: But what do you mean when I think I know what you mean?
17:53
[SPEAKER_01]: But I want you to explain it for the people who don't know what that means.
17:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, this is in the data around this is so overwhelming.
18:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Rain records a lot of rape abuse in social network that 98% of men who commit rape will never spend a single day in prison.
18:14
[SPEAKER_03]: number that 98% of men who commit rape will last been a single day in prison is because our criminal justice system was built by men is run predominantly by men and has been structured cautiously or otherwise to protect men from accountability.
18:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Is there another a recent example in Utah?
18:29
[SPEAKER_03]: I think the Senate leaders grandson committed rape and what of the Senate leader do he changed the law before his sentencing to prevent him from facing any kind of meaningful jail time.
18:41
[SPEAKER_03]: He changed, this happened just a month ago, earlier this year in 2026.
18:46
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, you know, 80% of underage rape victims, and 98% of adult rape victims are women.
18:52
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's men who are committing this rape.
18:55
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, you go around and this is some of the data I have in this new article that I've coming out, but you go around the world.
19:04
[SPEAKER_03]: And you find this is actually not
19:05
[SPEAKER_03]: any particular country that is like better or worse.
19:10
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, sure, there's worse countries, but there's not a single country on earth that has gender parity or gender equality, not a single one, nor in Europe, nor in Africa, nor in Asia, nor in North or South America.
19:20
[SPEAKER_03]: In every country of the world, women suffer a disproportionate level of gender-based violence, and rape is an epidemic concern.
19:29
[SPEAKER_03]: throughout the world.
19:30
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, this should be horrifying every single situation, 57% of women who are killed are killed by an intimate partner.
19:39
[SPEAKER_03]: 57% and so when we talk about the solution to this, if we are putting the onus,
19:46
[SPEAKER_03]: on victims, then we will never, ever, ever have a solution to this.
19:51
[SPEAKER_03]: If cars are being driven into trees on the side of the road, we're blaming the trees, we're missing the point.
20:00
[SPEAKER_03]: There's something wrong with the goddamn car.
20:02
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
20:02
[SPEAKER_03]: In this situation, it's men who are committing rape of women,
20:05
[SPEAKER_03]: And if we're blaming women for not, you know, why are you wearing that or why don't you drink that?
20:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And not the guy doing the actual horrific crime that we're completely missing the point and this is where I just need men to understand that when we call this out, I'm not accusing you individually of being a rapist.
20:24
[SPEAKER_03]: What I'm calling you out on is not leveraging your platform to make sure there's meaningful accountability and and you can do that a number of ways the easiest way is raise your voice to say there should be no refuge for this so the more the more difficult conversations.
20:40
[SPEAKER_03]: are the people in your life that are committing these acts, letting them know that there's not going to be any refuge in you and that you will hold them accountable for this.
20:50
[SPEAKER_03]: And then where I want meant to really be involved in is men disproportionately control a significant amount of wealth and power in this country.
21:00
[SPEAKER_03]: What causes are you donating to?
21:02
[SPEAKER_03]: What organizations are you supporting?
21:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Who are you electing to office?
21:05
[SPEAKER_03]: What pieces of legislation are you trying to get past to make sure there's meaningful accountability?
21:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you're not doing those things, then I'm sorry you are complicit with the person actually committing rape because you are standing by a while they're committing a horrible crime and not leveraging your power to stop them from committing this horrible crime.
21:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
21:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's exactly what we're seeing, you know, like ice or something.
21:26
[SPEAKER_01]: People, you know, if you just stand by and watch, it's, it's, you've got to speak up.
21:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
21:32
[SPEAKER_01]: We see that from men online saying that about other things.
21:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just kind of want to throw in there.
21:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember the date.
21:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I wrote it.
21:39
[SPEAKER_01]: It might have been 2021 or 2022.
21:42
[SPEAKER_01]: But I wrote something called No jail time for white men who rape women and babies, which was a really fun headline to write.
21:47
[SPEAKER_02]: But,
21:48
[SPEAKER_01]: It just, you know, I went and I looked for all these white men and it was just disgusting because I mean, they were literally raping babies and then the white male judge would be way more concerned for the rapist's future than the person who was assaulted.
22:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And this, like you're saying, this is a patriarch construct.
22:09
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a system run by men protecting men.
22:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, we see it time and again.
22:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And then like you said, it's constantly blaming the victims for what the men are doing.
22:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, we see this in religion.
22:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I've seen just recently, you know, like the evangelical crowd talking about how women shouldn't go to church, you know, wearing something that's revealing their shoulders.
22:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, what is that really saying?
22:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm constantly getting accused of thinking all men are rapists, but I feel like Republicans and not just Republicans and not just evangelicals, but the crowd that's going to say things about, you know, what you wear.
22:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So what you're basically saying is men are natural rapists who cannot control themselves.
22:55
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what they're saying.
22:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they turn it around and they go, you hate men.
23:00
[SPEAKER_01]: because we're saying that they're going to rape you.
23:04
[SPEAKER_03]: And again, it's like, it's like, it's like, if I say, I hate rapes and you say you hate men, where do you confessing to again, you go back to that point.
23:11
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, you're pointed about the evangelical crowd.
23:13
[SPEAKER_03]: You probably saw the story.
23:15
[SPEAKER_03]: Robert Morris, Donald Trump's spiritual advisor.
23:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
23:19
[SPEAKER_03]: Blood guilty in October 2025 for raping five children.
23:23
[SPEAKER_03]: Not one.
23:24
[SPEAKER_03]: We just horrible enough as it is.
23:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
23:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Five.
23:27
[SPEAKER_03]: uh... the uh... one of the victims was uh... Cindy uh... cleme shire who's only twelve years old when they've used started only twelve and they went on for four and a half years this is trumps spiritual advisor he got only ten years in prison and you know what the worst part is you know the worst part is Kimberly he was released on March 31st uh... only six months into a sentence
23:50
[SPEAKER_03]: for ripping for five counts of rape, six months in prison.
23:54
[SPEAKER_03]: In saying, I mean, it's like, this is one of the most powerful people out there.
23:59
[SPEAKER_03]: And the question I always have is that how many people knew that he was committing this app and did nothing to stop it.
24:08
[SPEAKER_03]: How many people understood that this man is abusing children repeatedly and did nothing to stop it and worse?
24:16
[SPEAKER_03]: We know of five counts.
24:18
[SPEAKER_03]: How many more players out there out there?
24:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, it just goes to also to the bigger picture when you look at the president in the United States right now.
24:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I know a lot of people like to say he's not my president, but he's all of our president.
24:30
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the freaking president.
24:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I hate him, but he's the president and he is a rapist and it appears he's a pedophile.
24:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, I don't have the proof in front of me, but I'm convinced of it.
24:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I think, and the fact that everyone who calls him pedophile, he leaves them all alone.
24:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe because he doesn't want to have any kind of, uh, a scavengerator and, yeah, discovery.
24:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but these people are running the country.
24:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, I mean, when this election,
24:59
[SPEAKER_01]: happened in 2024.
25:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I had a pit in my stomach for six weeks, and one of the first things I did was, and I mean, I feel kind of silly for admitting this, and I have obviously never used it, but I mean, I went out and I bought pepper spray.
25:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've never even had pepper spray before, even though I've been worn to have it all my life, it's like, I just thought, what if, what if, what if, I don't know.
25:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, obviously I go out and I walk around in the works.
25:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I really didn't know what was going to happen to this country.
25:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I had the worst case scenario.
25:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I was 12 years old when my dad got a job.
25:37
[SPEAKER_01]: He worked as a cameraman for ABC News in Russia.
25:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So I got to live in communist Russia in 1981.
25:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And I saw what it was like.
25:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And in some, like, I, now I almost wish I didn't know because like, oh my, and I mean, obviously, I don't think the United States is ever going to turn into communist Russia, but I know how quickly things, I knew in 2016 when Hillary Clinton,
26:03
[SPEAKER_01]: had warned us about his Russian connection.
26:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it came out that the Russians helped him.
26:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I just thought, oh my God.
26:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just thought, how quickly things can change.
26:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think he really sought this year.
26:15
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's like, I mean, I went out and I bought pepper spray, mainly because I just thought, am I even going to be safe walking around in the world?
26:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a six-foot tall blonde woman who most of the time people don't mess with me, but I am a woman.
26:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, I mean, it's terrifying.
26:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And these people are running the country.
26:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess I want to kind of sidetrack.
26:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't write this question, but I'm just wondering, as far as the Epstein files are concerned, do you like, I mean, I know you don't have a crystal ball.
26:43
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, do you have any kind of a feeling about where this is all going to go or what it might
26:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that I don't believe Trump's ever going to go to prison.
26:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think anything like that's ever going to happen, but I mean, what do you see coming out of this because people aren't letting it go?
27:02
[SPEAKER_03]: I think Trump will deploy nuclear weapons before he goes or prison.
27:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, I agree.
27:07
[SPEAKER_03]: The horrifying reality of it.
27:09
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to give a shout out to Congress from Summer Lee for igniting this conversation, Congressman Rolkana, and Thomas Massey for continuing to push it forward and getting us to where we are right now.
27:19
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, without the courage of Summer Lee, Rolkana, and then Thomas Massey, we would not even be at this point.
27:25
[SPEAKER_03]: I think there's two things I want to say to your really important question, Kimberly.
27:30
[SPEAKER_03]: One, I, again, because I'm an additional optimist, I firmly believe that eventually the truth will come out.
27:36
[SPEAKER_03]: It will get the full files.
27:37
[SPEAKER_03]: It may not happen until we hopefully have elections in midterms, and hopefully have election in 28 and get a demo ahead.
27:44
[SPEAKER_03]: you know, in Congress or in the White House as well to to release those.
27:50
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think it'll happen eventually.
27:51
[SPEAKER_03]: I just don't know when.
27:52
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't say what confidence won, because obviously the App Sales I've seen files transparency act was supposed to be what December 19th of last year were recording this in May of 2026 where six months in and still haven't seen the full files yet.
28:06
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think Jamie Raskan said that there are more than
28:09
[SPEAKER_03]: 1 million times that his name is mentioned and he's files right now, which is mortifying.
28:14
[SPEAKER_03]: That's one.
28:15
[SPEAKER_03]: The second thing is I need the Democrats to remember.
28:20
[SPEAKER_03]: that this bullcrap argument of Mary Garland and Joe Biden of sticking to norms is exactly that.
28:26
[SPEAKER_03]: There are no norms.
28:27
[SPEAKER_03]: There is no rule book.
28:28
[SPEAKER_03]: It's gone.
28:29
[SPEAKER_03]: It was heard down decades ago and you're insistence to stick to these norms.
28:34
[SPEAKER_03]: When nobody else is, is asinine.
28:37
[SPEAKER_03]: It's putting, it's tying your hand behind your back.
28:39
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think what really pisses me off is,
28:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Joe Biden knew that.
28:44
[SPEAKER_03]: It's why he gave a blanket part into his closest friends and families and allies because he knew that we are not in a place of norms and that he can see Trump go after his family very intimately and he had the wherewithal to say, you know what?
28:59
[SPEAKER_03]: This man is crazy.
29:01
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't live in normal times.
29:02
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to give my family a blanket part and so that they're protected.
29:05
[SPEAKER_03]: But then didn't do the same for the rest of the country.
29:08
[SPEAKER_03]: He should have fought to expand the court.
29:10
[SPEAKER_03]: He should have fought to pass the voting rights act.
29:12
[SPEAKER_03]: He should have released the obscene files, even if there's a court seal on them.
29:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Because why that is what the American people needed and deserved?
29:20
[SPEAKER_03]: And that is how you would have protected the Republican democracy.
29:22
[SPEAKER_03]: So the second part of your question is,
29:24
[SPEAKER_03]: We will get to a place of justice, but it will require a new democratic party that is committed to working people and is committed to protecting the Republic, not through this normal bullcraft that Merrick Garland put out there, but through recognizing the need of the hour, the moment of the hour, and having the courage to act upon it.
29:42
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I want to bring something up because I do believe that the democratic party needs improvement in certain areas.
29:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And as we already have discussed, there's some great people in that party.
29:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think like for the most part, the agenda of that party is in the right, you know, like the legislation most of the time that we see come out of the democratic party is more matriarchal.
30:01
[SPEAKER_01]: But because we have citizens united, because politics is what it is, there's going to be corruption.
30:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know that in this particular climate, it happens every year.
30:11
[SPEAKER_01]: But in this particular climate, all of the Democrats get super defensive, like Democratic voters get super defensive like, well, I don't want to attack the party, don't attack the party.
30:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't see it as attacking.
30:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I always like to say, you know, sports teams like to watch their plays over and over again.
30:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is where we fucked up and this is where we were good and let's fix what we fucked up and let's you know improve everywhere and I just think it's more about let's continue to improve because right now the democratic party obviously is going to have There's no human being.
30:44
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no group of people that's never going to be perfect.
30:47
[SPEAKER_01]: There's always going to be room for improvement.
30:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there's absolutely that there.
30:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And I agree with you that sometimes the old guard hangs on too hard to what used to be.
30:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And the bottom line is, things are always going to change.
31:03
[SPEAKER_01]: We are always going to evolve.
31:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I was saying to my boyfriend a couple of weeks ago on his podcast that people have a tendency to go back in history and act like that was the best time.
31:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're so much better.
31:14
[SPEAKER_01]: back in the day.
31:16
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know, the bottom line is whether or not you believe it was better back in your day.
31:22
[SPEAKER_01]: We always evolve.
31:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Never stays the same.
31:25
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think people are so, you know, yes, it was better, it felt better for a lot of people before Trump came into this picture.
31:32
[SPEAKER_01]: it's going back to what you're saying.
31:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, Donald Trump is a symptom of what's going on.
31:37
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a manifestation of everything that's been happening.
31:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It didn't start with the tea party, but the tea party really really gave it a big, big push.
31:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he said, yeah, he can't and the Sarah Palin and all of that.
31:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm starting to, no, I'm going, I'm going off into so many tangents.
31:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry.
31:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You want to say something something's going on?
31:56
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I want to build on your point.
31:58
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to build on your really important point about
31:59
[SPEAKER_03]: There's an idea of attacking the party.
32:01
[SPEAKER_03]: Look, I don't want to be very clear about this.
32:03
[SPEAKER_03]: One, we are not a cult, right?
32:05
[SPEAKER_03]: If you want, if you want to put a party that you can't question this leadership, then join the Magical Cult.
32:09
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't, this is not the right party if you want.
32:12
[SPEAKER_03]: Two, when we're critical, what we're attacking are our elected representatives who are betraying what we elected them to do.
32:21
[SPEAKER_03]: Just be very, very clear and simple about that.
32:23
[SPEAKER_03]: And you can talk about the fact that nearly 80% of Democrats want universal health care as a human right.
32:30
[SPEAKER_03]: Polling repeatedly shows worst case scenario, 70% of Democrats want universal health.
32:34
[SPEAKER_03]: That is a mandate.
32:35
[SPEAKER_03]: That is an overwhelming mandate.
32:37
[SPEAKER_03]: So when politicians come out and say, yo, we need to protect the for profit insurance company, bull crap.
32:42
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you are, you are a betraying what the people are telling you.
32:46
[SPEAKER_03]: When 98% of Democrats say stop taking corporate money and run a campaign that is funded by people.
32:53
[SPEAKER_03]: You are taking money from the same packs.
32:55
[SPEAKER_03]: who are funding insurrectionists.
32:56
[SPEAKER_03]: What the hell are you doing?
32:58
[SPEAKER_03]: That is not attacking the party.
33:00
[SPEAKER_03]: That is attacking those who are violating the principles of the party.
33:03
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I want to be very, very clear about that.
33:05
[SPEAKER_03]: This is not to say, let's burn everything down and start over.
33:09
[SPEAKER_03]: This is to say, hey, you are violating the oath.
33:11
[SPEAKER_03]: that you took when we elected you, you know, John Futterman's a great example of that.
33:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
33:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just thinking of him.
33:19
[SPEAKER_03]: And like, and me being critical of John Futterman is not saying destroy the whole party is saying this guy lied through his teeth and he needs to be accountable for it.
33:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Simple as that.
33:28
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
33:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
33:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to swing back because I want to ask you back about this rape academy thing.
33:34
[SPEAKER_01]: What kind of attention did you get from men?
33:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what kind of comments were you getting from men on this piece?
33:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god, and that's actually part of a motivated newer piece about just being clear that men are women are not safe around men, but the feedback I think kind of fell into to two categories one very for I was a three categories one was I was it probably half of men were like yes this is good you're making some really valid points here you maybe think about this deeper I'm going to do better.
34:07
[SPEAKER_03]: There was another segment who said now this doesn't apply to me, I'm not worried about it.
34:13
[SPEAKER_03]: And then there was another segment who were very unfortunately, and I even screenshot of some of the responses said according to this guy, all men are rapists.
34:20
[SPEAKER_03]: There you go.
34:21
[SPEAKER_03]: There you go.
34:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Even though I never said that, that's the way through.
34:25
[SPEAKER_03]: Another guy said, you have 600,000 followers, this is a paid propaganda campaign, and I will make sure that you call me a nasty piece of shit for calling a man.
34:39
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, some other men were, I'm actually reading that comments that they sent to me.
34:43
[SPEAKER_03]: That's like screenshots and saved them said is every issue a clickbait now or you just are using a brain or you are spreading this information.
34:50
[SPEAKER_03]: And so like just the insecurity of these people is just insufferable and unfortunately, this probably represented a good 30 to 40% of the responses that I got.
34:59
[SPEAKER_03]: And that to me is, I mean, even 1% is too much.
35:03
[SPEAKER_03]: But 30 to 40% is just a really daunting number.
35:06
[SPEAKER_01]: It is, but, you know, I mean, being that I've been in the Serena, online, political feminism and politics since 2012, and really pushing, I can say, I have seen an improvement.
35:20
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, a lot of the men
35:24
[SPEAKER_01]: the way that they responded in 2012 compared to now i am seeing people waking up and i'm grateful for it and i know it's not going to happen overnight i know it's time um but i mean you know i mean i'm a white woman obviously but you know you're you're a Muslim man and they're we're all swarming groups
35:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
35:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
35:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And each group is going to have their set amount of, you know, misogyny, bigotry, whatever you want to call up to this hate, all that.
35:51
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, I mean, I think in a way, it all just makes together.
35:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You're talking here about rape, but it's still,
35:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like all these different groups of people in this country.
36:02
[SPEAKER_01]: The whole point of this country in the first place is to have this big melting pot of all of us.
36:07
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the freaking point of it.
36:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And then of course, once that starts, then it's the other.
36:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And everybody wants to point their finger.
36:14
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm grateful that you wrote this because it's not only applying
36:18
[SPEAKER_01]: what you're saying here and it's just to women.
36:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I look at this for, this is like for everyone because it's not just about rape, it's not just about women, it's about big retreat, it's about all of it.
36:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like you had that experience with that man and you were able to show him because I watched the interview, it was funny though, he asked you if he could still call them illegals.
36:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm like, no, people aren't illegal.
36:41
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely, and I'm not going to hold on to that.
36:43
[SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, Kimber, I want to build on this really important point you're making that is not the intersectionality of all this.
36:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
36:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, folks need to understand the impact of this on a very practical scale.
36:52
[SPEAKER_03]: There's an amazing nonprofit organization called Unchained.Last.
36:56
[SPEAKER_03]: and it works on combating child marriage in America.
36:59
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't know if you have a chance to look at them Kimberly, so I'll ask you this point, you know, kind of like, I have not, yeah.
37:06
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you were to guess how many documented child marriages that have been in the United States in the last 25 years, how many would you guess?
37:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my God.
37:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know.
37:17
[SPEAKER_03]: I would just say hundreds of thousands you're you're exact right more than 300,000 documented child marriages.
37:22
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god Indian out of state documented and so God knows how many more Exist that we have no way of documenting as well because obviously right when you're committing an illegal act But here's that here's the even scarier part as a right now Do you know how many states still legalized child marriage?
37:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, I know I looked it up and I don't know how many states, but I mean, there's a whole bunch of states in this country where like what 15 is the age?
37:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and some there's no minimum age.
37:49
[SPEAKER_03]: 36 states right now, still legalized child marriage.
37:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
37:53
[SPEAKER_03]: And so like we have worked, like this is systemic, right?
37:56
[SPEAKER_03]: This is not like, oh, you know, you're painting all men as rapist.
37:59
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, these laws were passed by all men just so you know, like every single state.
38:04
[SPEAKER_03]: that has these laws where child marriage is legal, that law was by default passed by men, because women weren't elected into office in the late 1800s, early 1900s, early 20th century, when these laws were passed.
38:16
[SPEAKER_03]: So yes, so men are responsible for this, de facto, because it was men 99% of state legislatures, most of them 100% were men, and particularly white men, because they didn't allow black or brown people out of the time either.
38:27
[SPEAKER_03]: But this is my point when I say,
38:29
[SPEAKER_03]: that men can't set up the system of misogyny patriarchy and then be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,
38:48
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I know what, I mean, that's why I try not to get too angry because I realize that I mean, it's just going to take time and I don't know how far we're ever going to go, right?
38:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think we can absolutely get to better place.
39:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we have been in a better place, although we're always going to have, you know, the, I don't know what to call them, the rapists, the negative, whatever.
39:08
[SPEAKER_01]: There's always going to be a group of people in any society that's just going to be awful.
39:12
[SPEAKER_01]: But when you have like what you're saying, when we have laws in place and just like if we could get more women judges, you know, get women on the bench and obviously women aren't the only answer you can look at Alan Cannon and say just because the woman doesn't mean she's perfect, but we need the the bench to represent like we need our our government to represent the people to look like the people and so there are women in this world.
39:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And we need them to be judges, and it's just so, it's just so, I mean, it's a side note.
39:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I was watching rewatching the bridges of Madison County the other night.
39:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, in that movie, Merrill Streep falls in love with what's this name.
39:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, why can't I remember anybody's the Clint Clint Eastwood.
40:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, he wants her to go away with him, and she's married and has kids.
40:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So, she decides that she can't do it, but she starts
40:10
[SPEAKER_01]: talking about her husband.
40:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, you know, he, he's been on this farm forever.
40:15
[SPEAKER_01]: He wouldn't know what to do.
40:17
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a very gentle man.
40:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just, you know what, that never struck me until the other night.
40:24
[SPEAKER_01]: What she was saying is, he doesn't rape me.
40:27
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't beat me up.
40:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's something that, yeah, that happens a lot.
40:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just lucky because he doesn't
40:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I just am so grateful that a man is taking this on because I'm so tired of being called a man-hater I mean, I live with a man.
40:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I love my father.
40:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I love my brother.
40:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a lot of male friends and so obviously I don't hate men and I don't walk around thinking every man is a rapist but I have been in positions before where I was terrified and there was no real reason to be.
41:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody was threatening me
41:06
[SPEAKER_01]: but I was terrified and it was basically because of a girlfriend's behavior, a girlfriend of mine was being sexually suggestive around a group of men and we were alone.
41:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just thought I thought we're going to get gang raped.
41:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And thank you so much.
41:21
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, that's the whole point.
41:22
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, you don't know.
41:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And we need other men to stand up because men aren't gonna listen to women.
41:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I know, like you said, you got a bunch of men telling you, oh, you're full of shit.
41:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what you're talking about.
41:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're getting it, too.
41:37
[SPEAKER_01]: But as a woman, I have absolutely no credibility with so many of these kinds of guys.
41:42
[SPEAKER_01]: But there are guys men who are gonna look at another man and go away to men that I'll listen because it's a man speaking.
41:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just used to it, and so it isn't funny, but I mean, we have to laugh sometimes because of ignorance.
41:54
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I know the love it is important, the love it is important, and you're right, and I think it's on us, you know, especially those of us for fathers who start with, like I've got two sons, and I've made it explicitly clear to them what consent means and what consent is.
42:09
[SPEAKER_03]: And they understand that, and it's a beautiful to watch them practice that in real time with their little sister to know that there are boundaries that apply to all women in every scenario no matter what.
42:24
[SPEAKER_03]: because how you treat women at home is how you're going to be treating women outside and even worse.
42:28
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it starts with men holding other men accountable, holding younger men accountable.
42:33
[SPEAKER_03]: And we'll say this, Kimberly, that I am always willing to have the conversation with men one because women shouldn't have to.
42:42
[SPEAKER_03]: I will have the conversation with men.
42:44
[SPEAKER_03]: And two, I will always have the conversation to bring men to a place where they, you know, they can
42:52
[SPEAKER_03]: if they don't know they don't know and we can yell at them for not knowing or we can say okay I'm going to meet you where you are and I'm going to assume positive intent I'll give you one really good I'll give you my own example when I was in law school
43:03
[SPEAKER_03]: In my mid-20s, I remember that I went to law school because I wanted to be a human rights lawyer.
43:10
[SPEAKER_03]: And an amazing law professor who said, hey, there's a poverty law center that has an office of domestic and sexual violence.
43:17
[SPEAKER_03]: I can get you involved as an intern there.
43:19
[SPEAKER_03]: And you can start working with clients and supporting women who are survivors of domestic and sexual violence.
43:23
[SPEAKER_03]: So it sounds great.
43:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me get involved here.
43:26
[SPEAKER_03]: And my very first day in the office, my the lawyer that I was working under, she was great friend been a mentor for a long time and she sits me down and she goes to me, she goes listen, under no circumstance, when you meet with these women who are survivors, do you ever meet one on one?
43:45
[SPEAKER_03]: and I said, well, why not?
43:48
[SPEAKER_03]: She goes, because she doesn't know if you're a rapist.
43:51
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, well, that sounds stupid, of course I'm not.
43:53
[SPEAKER_03]: She goes, she goes, and that's exactly the problem with your reaction.
43:56
[SPEAKER_03]: And the only current I'll give myself is that was smart enough to just shut up and listen, and I'm like, okay.
44:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Help me understand.
44:04
[SPEAKER_03]: And then she will walk me through exactly what we've been talking about.
44:07
[SPEAKER_03]: And I mind you, I was in my early 20s, and I should have known by then, I didn't.
44:12
[SPEAKER_03]: But I had the extraordinary good fortune of having an amazing woman sit me down and say listen here is what is going through a woman's mind in the scenario.
44:21
[SPEAKER_03]: This is why no matter what you can never be alone in a meeting in an office anywhere.
44:26
[SPEAKER_03]: The only time that ever happens is when she gives express consent and level.
44:32
[SPEAKER_03]: I know we have through a whole process that I believe.
44:34
[SPEAKER_03]: and to that point for the first six months of meeting with some of these clients, there was always somebody with her, a family member, a friend, my legal partner, there was never a scenario, and it took me that experience to, and this is nearly 20 years going out.
44:50
[SPEAKER_03]: It took me that experience to really understand, okay.
44:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow, I'm recognizing my own male privilege in a way that I had never thought about before.
44:58
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, to me, as direct and harsh as I am about men needing to do better, I also want to add that those men who want to do better and don't know how, we need to create space for them to be able to ask questions.
45:09
[SPEAKER_03]: And men need to take the lead in creating that space and answering those questions, because that's not a burden that needs to be upon a woman.
45:16
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, my mentor shouldn't have been the one who had to take on that burden.
45:19
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm extraordinarily grateful that she did.
45:22
[SPEAKER_03]: But that shouldn't, that's not a sustainable model because of what you said can believe that the men are too arrogant.
45:26
[SPEAKER_03]: They're not going to listen to women.
45:27
[SPEAKER_03]: So men need to take lead in this space and be accountable in this space.
45:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I mean, I'm just going to throw in that, you know, in a in a in a patriarchy.
45:38
[SPEAKER_01]: women hold it up too.
45:40
[SPEAKER_01]: A patriarchy is not just like I hate men, right?
45:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a power system run by men.
45:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And women can hold it up.
45:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And I realized just a couple of years ago, only a couple of years ago.
45:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm going to be 58 years old in July.
45:54
[SPEAKER_01]: So,
45:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And I, and I was an actress back in the day in the 90s in Los Angeles, and I was extremely extremely insecure because I'm six feet tall and I wasn't boned thin.
46:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't the size zero that was popular at the time.
46:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I experienced in my life a lot of body hatred.
46:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I have had eating disorders.
46:16
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't even imagine the horrible things that I've said to myself about my body and how much I've hated my body.
46:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I just realized a couple of years ago that I was actually feeding the patriarchy.
46:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I was pleasing and feeding the patriarchy by doing this and I didn't even realize it.
46:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I was not...
46:34
[SPEAKER_01]: my body is not the patriarchal standard of beauty and I mean the same thing with Hollywood.
46:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I was slender but it didn't matter because I was bigger than everybody and I just felt so disgusting and gross and then I realized you know as a much older person like wow I'm by hating my body and by being so horrible to myself and abusing basically myself
46:56
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the patriarchy.
46:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm working for the patriarchy.
46:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm saying that to the men out there who feel defensive and feel like I'm not doing.
47:06
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like sometimes you don't even realize it.
47:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But you just gotta kind of take a step back and go away to minute and you don't.
47:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not about blaming.
47:13
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to blame yourself or something.
47:16
[SPEAKER_01]: You didn't even realize you were doing.
47:18
[SPEAKER_01]: But once you realize you're doing it, then like, you know, you just make the effort.
47:22
[SPEAKER_03]: I agree, I agree, no, I mean, and that's the unfair stand that we put on women as well.
47:26
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I'm sorry that that's an experience that you had to go through, but I'm also grateful that you had the support and the ability to kind of work through that and be in a much better place now.
47:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I am.
47:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, gosh, it was just so interesting to talk to you.
47:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And I certainly hope that you'll come back and talk to me another time.
47:43
[SPEAKER_03]: I've admired your work for a long time, so it's all thank you.
47:47
[SPEAKER_03]: Great to get these these invitations and connect with people that I've admired from afar and build this friendship and partnership too.
47:52
[SPEAKER_03]: So thank you for the work I did in company.
47:53
[SPEAKER_03]: It's it's hard felt and and more of it is needed.
47:56
[SPEAKER_03]: So thank you for you.
47:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Well and right back at you.
47:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, thank you for everything you're doing.
48:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just I've always been impressed with your work.
48:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's great that we finally got to meet and before I let you go, please tell everybody where to find you.
48:07
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
48:08
[SPEAKER_03]: My, uh, my sub stack, uh, just my name costs in Rashid.com QASIM, RASHID.com, uh, no paywall.
48:16
[SPEAKER_03]: You can be a pay subscriber if you want, but none of my content has any, uh, paywall access to it.
48:21
[SPEAKER_03]: So I, I was joke that becoming a pay subscriber gets you no actual value or benefit whatsoever.
48:26
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, aside, the, the good, the feeling that you're supporting, uh, someone is trying to do right in the world.
48:32
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I'm, uh, at costs in Rashid across all social platforms, whatever
48:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.
48:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, thank you so much and we'll talk again.
48:38
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.