Latest / The Slump Monkeys Concrete Podcast / 002 - Jake Ables
Transcript
- Paul Fendley AI: Please subscribe to the Slump Monkeys Concrete Podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Visit us on LinkedIn, follow us on YouTube, and reach out to us at admin while slumpmonkeys.com to inquire about sponsorships or guest appearances. Thank you and have a great week. Paul: And welcome into the interview portion of the Slump Monkeys Concrete Podcast. We have with us the great and powerful Jake Abels of Sylvie Materials. Hello, Jake. And welcome into the Slump Monkeys Concrete Podcast, soon to be the world's number one concrete podcast. And we are brought to you by Command Alcons, celebrating 50 years of innovation in the concrete industry. They're proud to help producers solve today's challenges while shaping what's next for the heavy building materials industry. Visit command.com to learn more. And while that is an absolutely beautiful tagline. Jake Ables: Hey Paul, thanks for having me. Paul: Well, this is the second time we're having you. you know, hey, not ashamed. We're concrete guys, not tech guys, despite the fact that I did start a podcast for the second time and I think I'd have this figured out. ⁓ I felt a little bit better. I was listening to a podcast during lunch break and like these like IT super nerds, they took them forty five minutes to get started. And ⁓ you know, if if the super nerds can't figure it out, what hope do we have? Jake Ables: Yeah. Little technical difficulty, but you know. That's right. Paul: Yeah, I love that they were. could tell it was written by a person too, right? Like they didn't just say, hey chat, tell me what to say here. No. Somebody took the time to write that down, brainstorm that, massage it. Very well done. But I actually think there's something more interesting to that tagline, of course, as they're celebrating their 50 years. I ⁓ having call the other day with their VP, Trevor Panas. ⁓ sorry if I pronounced your last name wrong, Trevor. ⁓ And said to me, ⁓ How Jake Ables: So we're ahead of the curve then. Paul: I mean, fair enough. So I've done three interviews for the new podcast. We are literally three for three on like hardcore technical difficulties. Yes. So the the difficulty that plagued our first interview was like this horrible reverberation that I couldn't hear. And when I went into like post, it was ⁓ evident. Jake was like, Yep, suffered through that the whole time. So that was terrible. ⁓ then started up the second interview ⁓ ⁓ literally the same problem. Jake Ables: ⁓ well you're off and running. Paul: companies are 50 years old. Like what an incredible feat that is for Command Alcon, who is a software company being around for 50 years. So, friends, I went and did a little digging ⁓ and little extra digging and a little bit more digging. I got down and I said, you know what? If I was looking for a US-based company whose primary business is commercial software, so not a consulting firm, not a hardware company decided to sell software. And and what's that? Always gonna be something. Well, also all lessons are learned the hard way. So because we had like that hour long conversation that was totally worthless and totally useless, I mean it was a great conversation until we couldn't use it. And then I knew it the next person, I said, Hey, if you can hear yourself, we gotta figure this out. Jake Ables: Well it's a good metaphor for the concrete business. It's always gonna be something. Paul: But an actual commercial software company that was, you know, focused, continued to serve essentially the same industry for 50 plus years. an independent company founded before in 1977. Do you want to know how many companies fit that criteria? Four. Four companies fit that pri criteria, including Command Alcon, ⁓ Institute, Syncom Sist Systems, and ⁓ GI. Jake Ables: That's right. Paul: Now we gotta now we gotta figure it out. Look at us. Look at us. Why not why not us? So at first I for folks that don't know you, I'm glad you're here because I think they should know you. You're one of the up-and-coming stars in the business and I don't mind saying that. And one the things I think is cool is you graduated from the CIM program, just like a bunch of us have. and then you did the thing that I try to tell all new grads to do, and you weren't afraid to like ⁓ leave the Jake Ables: That's right. Paul: Yes. So we're talking about rarefied air. Like if you want to be like a little bit flexible on that, you could probably say maybe there's nine that exist. Maybe. But Command Alcon, guys, congratulations. Fifty years as a software company, going all the way to nineteen seventy-six, ⁓ still here with us today. And you know, before I move on to the next thing, ⁓ I was researching that and I kind of got these qualifications down and You left Middle Tennessee and you went where? Jake Ables: Mm-hmm. So when I got out of MTSU in twenty sixteen, I moved to Orlando, Florida. ⁓ was working for Mashmire Concrete down there. to be honest with you, I could not get out of Tennessee fast enough. I've just got that kind of that's s that's no ⁓ no snipe there. That's my home state. Born and raised ⁓ no ⁓ I just ⁓ Paul: Okay. That's fire. Shun's fire. We sort of like drill down and drill down and drill down, named like what, seven things right there that you had to do to to to be on this list. It reminded me like back in the day when I would be watching Sports Center as a kid, and they were like, You won't believe this stat. And and like for a while, I was like, Man, this is amazing. I can't believe that guy did that awesome thing. And as I got older, I realized like they were pigeonholing these people into these stats. So like there was no other person, right? And so you'd have Jake Ables: I've never been one to let grass grow under my feet, so I was eager just get out and see something different. You know, I've always had that kind of ⁓ spirit. So went down to Orlando in twenty sixteen, was there for about two years, then I got transferred down to West Palm Beach, still working for Mashmire at the time, ⁓ and I moved over to Arcosal Lightweight. Paul: Like, ⁓ my God, can you believe for the first time ever, we have a player who was originally drafted as a left fielder who turns into a relief pitcher that's right handed, that struck out 10 batters in one relief appearance in July while playing for his second team. Can you believe it? It's we're witnessing history. And that was like this is like crazy. ⁓ but ⁓ with all that said, command. Jake Ables: And I was selling lightweight aggregate over there and I was in West Palm 'til about twenty twenty one, right after the COVID nonsense started, you know. And then moved to Philadelphia and now I'm in North Carolina as of September of twenty five. Paul: Mm-hmm. And I ran into you when you're up here in Philadelphia. So I was glad we crossed paths for a little while. And you mentioned like COVID nonsense. So this this show, there's no politics. So if you're we're gonna talk about COVID for a second, it's there's ⁓ ⁓ political, it's not a political quote podcast. But I remember so I remember two things that are crazy to me about COVID is like one, ⁓ feels like it was last year. ⁓ ⁓ it was six years so was six years ago that we shut down for two weeks to slow ⁓ slow the spread or whatever. Still freaking awesome, right? And 50 years is a long time for software. Happy 4th of July. ⁓ we are recording this ⁓ the weekend of our country's 250th birthday celebration. I hope you guys are safe. You entered the weekend with us and left the weekend with the same amount of appendages. Nobody loves a good fireworks injury. The stories are great, the actual injuries are are frightening. I've I've seen Jake Ables: Yeah, it does. Paul: And I remember when that shut down and I was living in Baltimore, Mar or I was working in Baltimore, Maryland, living over the line in Pennsylvania. And like they shut down concrete, dude. They shut down concrete in Maryland, call concrete construction. Crazy. We're only like one of three states that did it. And they were like, and they realized real quick, like a week later it was all opened back up for con or maybe in like three days. They realized like what a massive mistake that was. You know, back in the day, look, I grew up in rural Alabama. All right. We we did some things with fireworks. And I've seen some kids get hurt. Never seen anybody like literally lose a finger, but seen some people get hurt. So hopefully everybody was safe out there. And as I was thinking about the Fourth of July, ⁓ I was thinking about it in context of like other national holidays. A lot of the big ones have like fun traditions, right? you know, Thanksgiving, we all get together and we we eat until we pass out. Jake Ables: Yeah, it was wild. ⁓ Florida Florida handled it a little differently. And again, not political, just when I say nonsense, I mean just like it was just it was just nonsense, you know, like having to deal with having to deal with like all that, you know, that's the way I phrase it at least. But or ⁓ Florida shut down for about a month, I think, and then they got the ⁓ I'm sure the governor's office got the ⁓ quarterly for, you know, the lost revenue in Orlando to Disney World. And they were like, Yeah, we're opening this thing back up Paul: ⁓ yeah. ⁓ for Christmas, you know, you you letters to Santa, you open presents, you celebrate Jesus for those that care. And, know, they have like a tradition to them. ⁓ Valentine's Day, you get a significant other and you show them ⁓ you know, w whatever amount of love you think they've earned. And and you know, you so we have like these traditions around these national holidays. But July fourth, when I about it, it for some of us it's D ⁓ Disney the sole reason that Florida opened back up. Jake Ables: Yeah. Yeah, you know you're in bad shape when Disney World's closed and they can't have it. Paul: That's hilarious. Have you taken your kids to Disney yet? Jake Ables: Not yet. She's sixteen months old, so I still got a few more years before I have to make the ⁓ the pilgrimage down to, you know, Disney World. But we we like every other parent that can will be doing that. my strong objections. ⁓ know, Disney's but you know, there a couple of times but standing in the hot sun in Orlando, just you know, not my cup of tea, but you know, my little girl's gonna get what she wants, so ⁓ Paul: Barbecuing. ⁓ for for some others, it's going to the pool or the beach or the lake. For some of us, it's and many of us maybe, it's it's fireworks. But I I think I'd like to introduce a new tradition. If you don't mind for just a moment, I would like to tell you about the new tradition that I want to have for July fourth. So me personally, I would love it if we could all get together. Mm. Shoot, you ain't gotta tell me. I I got a 10-year-old daughter, she gets probably whatever she wants. If you ask my wife, she'll tell you that I give her whatever you want. Now, if you ask me, I say no twenty eight thousand times a day. But you know my daughter's like the world's greatest salesperson. The the first no is just like a negotiation. no doesn't mean no. And we all write a letter, but not to Santa. We're gonna write a letter to big government. this is not a political podcast, it never will be, but we are a policy or or we're ⁓ to policy discussions. And I I got one. I got one. And think we should all be able to write a letter and we all we all should ⁓ demand like policy change. And so like they'll they'll aggregate them all together. Jake Ables: Those are good life skills for her then. Paul: That's what I that's what I told her. She's at ⁓ she's at business camp this week. Like that's what they're doing. ⁓ for camp. She's doing she's like learning how to run a startup. I swear, dude. Crazy, right? Jake Ables: Get out of here. That's fantastic. Yeah, shoot, I may need to work for her one day. Paul: Dude, I told her, I said, Come back and tell me what you learned. She was like, Didn't you get an MBA? I was like, Yeah, on paper, sure. I was Come but I actually, you know, the so it's funny, like the new job that I have is a lot of fun because all those things we learned getting our MBA. Like I came in and I was like, ⁓ my gosh, I get to apply like all of this. So it's actually been pretty fantastic. Do you see parts of your business that you're in where you get to use some that ⁓ higher education? And whichever one is like number one, or maybe we have some sort of voting system on the top three or something. But we we we send them in and whatever's number one, they have to do it. Our representative democracy, let's put the democracy back in that joker. Let's all write a letter to big government Santa. And letter that I would have written this year. Jake Ables: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Sure did. Every day. Every day, man. We're I mean w whether we're looking at aging or whether we're looking at, you know, capital expenditures or whatever, like it all makes sense now. I mean I got a pretty I mean the CIM curriculum's got a decent business background, but it's nothing compared to like the MBA and Paul: I want cheaper cement silos. Jesus Christ. Holy smokes. All right. Look, for those of you who know my new job, one of the jobs I have, at least, ⁓ are a plant, a converted an old plant. It's now, or it's a new plant. You just do something else. And now it's gonna be making ⁓ calcine clay for ready mix. It's awesome. Makes the best stuff you've ever seen in your life. Ask anybody that's used it, it's freaking awesome. And Jake Ables: ev it's just like a light switch went on. Everything started to make sense and, you know, how the different financial statements interact with each other, you know, how you forecast, how you manage, you know, debts and other things like that. It it's every day I'm using it in some facet or another. Paul: ⁓ dude, so you mentioned it like it was like a a light bulb went off, it was a switch flipped, it was a language it was a language thing for me. It was a language thing. I I I had my managers were it felt like they were speaking Chinese, man. And it was we it was so weird because I thought I I was good at math and I was like I understand a P and L like here's revenues, here's expenses, boom, here's your money. Like what are you what am I missing? And I turned out I was missing a lot. as as The the issue that we have, we knew it was gonna happen eventually, but the that we are now at the point where the new bottleneck is silo storage space. Most we all know most plants have two. Some have one silo. How many have three realistically? I mean, there's some out there. But how many of them have three and then can also give one to calcine clay? Jeez. Jake Ables: Mm-hmm. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Paul: price, we're really narrowing ourselves here, right? Like, all right, so we're gonna need gonna need another silo. ⁓ I need the concrete plants to do that, but I understand that, you know, ⁓ gonna take some effort on their side. So all right, well let me look into it let me see maybe there's something I can do. Maybe, maybe we can figure this out together. So we called some friends. I said, hey friend, could work me up a quote on a hundred ton silo and all the little parts and pieces I'm gonna need to get that Joker I sometimes rag on like some higher education, don't think it's all necessary. That one, bro. Glad we got that. Jake Ables: I c I mean it's been hugely benefit. The alphabet soup of acronyms ⁓ come with it, EBIT, EBITA, all the other stuff, you know, like ⁓ those are just to name a couple, but you know, you gotta speak the language, right? And that's what it is. Paul: Yeah, speak the language and and you know, speaking of speaking the language. What what I I sometimes hear about concrete folks is they kind of get pigeonholed into like one region. ⁓ And I did I didn't I was ⁓ I fortunate that when I came out of school, I went to ⁓ Kansas City, Missouri, and then after that I went and joined the act of gel team down in Georgia. But I didn't stay in Georgia, I was traveling every single week ⁓ and were all over the place. And it was cool because I got to see mixed designs. Like up and running. Give me a time frame. Come back to me. And the number that I got has got it was so so insanely high. it'll be like what, eight, nine, ten months before I get it, and then you gotta get it installed. I'm gonna be a year from now before I can get it got it it upset me so much that I'm now inventing From all over the country, got to see issues with concrete all over the country, and then got to help people fix it, whether it was the product I was selling or something else. Like we all was trying to help. And they all had different issues. And I just thought that was really cool. it was like speaking a different language. ⁓ you learned the language of concrete and you learn the dialects and you learn the accents. ⁓ you are one of those people. You went down to Florida. new July fourth traditions so that we can all together collectively write in and ask for cheaper cement silos so you can help your boy out. You can help the host of the Slump Monkeys podcast move forward in his other jobs because these silos are insanely expensive. So I if I I didn't want to be offended because it's just business. So instead of saying, hey man, I'm offended at this price, this is insane. I Jake Ables: Mm-hmm. Paul: And then up to the northeast, you couldn't have a different hardly in the United States. And then now you're in the mid Atlantic. So when you you're in those three different areas of operation, like what's what's different and what's the same? I instead texted Ha, I thought I was getting the friends and family price. And he says to me, Well, that is the discounted price, friend. Jake Ables: big difference you know, the obvious ones, the the people, right? ⁓ mean, ⁓ got its own ⁓ its own set of ⁓ set of folks. The Northeast has got their own and then now being in North Carolina, everybody's got their own local customs and, ⁓ know, ⁓ they use and all that stuff. but the thing that's the same about the folks, other than like, you know, temperament, attitude, things like that, obviously people in Philadelphia are gonna be a little more direct, a little more hard scrabbled, ⁓ and in North Carolina you're gonna get a little Paul: ⁓ didn't feel very friendly to me. ⁓ ⁓ I mean, maybe felt like family a little bit if you're talking about, you know, that one relative that can't say hi without also asking you for gas money. I mean th we ⁓ mean, got a f I got a couple of those and th they're funny 'cause they'll be standing on your front porch like they're about to go somewhere and then start digging through their pockets. Can't look you in the eye and be like, Man, these you know, you don't kinda Jake Ables: healthier, you know, of molasses to help it go down, right? They're gonna sugarcoat it for you. ⁓ But the everybody will they all have the same problems, right? They just go about solving them differently. ⁓ know, it's all gonna come down to further ⁓ Paul: Money I can have for some gas to you. It's like, well, how did you get here? You know, and they can't, you know, they're so they're digging in their pockets. Like, I swear I got something in my pocket, but it's never gas money in that pocket. Then you give it to them and you see them later and they're smoking a pack of new cigarettes and you say, Hey, I thought you you needed money. And he said, Yeah, well, I had money for cigarettes. I didn't have money for gas. that's kind of family it felt like, or, you know, Jake Ables: Can you give me the trucks? Does the is the mix, you know, is it gonna make strength? Where where's this, that, and the other? So, you know, traveling, once you learn the, you know, local mannerisms, I'll say, everything else will just fall into place, right? Everybody's got the same set of concerns. Anywhere I've ever been, concrete is they've all got the same concerns. It's just how you approach the people and then how you go about solving their issues and in what manner you do that is the big, big thing, right? Like I'll I'll use this for Paul: I was a little disappointed, but wasn't again, I wasn't disappointed in my friend. I was disappointed in the price, but it did feel a little like family, like when you're the you're you're watching that one cousin you have that convinced everyone to invest in Bitcoin when it was, you know, a hundred and twenty six thousand. And then that guy's still all about it and telling you to double down and dollar cost average, brother. Jake Ables: example. like if I had a customer who, ⁓ know, was giving us a problem in the northeast, right, just as an example. I know ⁓ based who I'm talking to, I can be a lot more direct, a lot a lot put lot less sugar coating on it just because that's the customs. But whereas like now I'm here in North Carolina like Paul: Going to the moon, it's gonna be a million, you know, and you're a little disappointed in that guy 'cause you you just watched your parents' ⁓ net worth get cut in half. you know, nobody likes those type of family dynamics and ⁓ likes ⁓ cement ⁓ prices. So if everyone would please write in to your senator or congressman, let's get a new tradition going and let's make silos affordable again. Jake Ables: I don't necessarily have to can accomplish what I need to accomplish without being ⁓ firm and as ⁓ ⁓ about And you have to have those skills because you're not gonna be very good at sales and know, if you bring the scrabble, direct, confrontational style ⁓ in if you bring that down to North Carolina, you're just not gonna get anywhere because ⁓ people ⁓ like to do business with you. ⁓ That's it comes down to. So I mean that's and it's a long winded answer to your question, but ⁓ there the similarities and the differences kind of in a nutshell just from the people standpoint. The markets could not be more different, ⁓ right? mean, Florida Paul: All right, that's off my chest. ⁓ let's go into the next here. before we do, let's do a little bit more housekeeping. we have another great sponsor of the show. We have Manny Tejano's wonderful company, ⁓ Rocket Start. you're not familiar with Rocket Start, let me tell you, I freaking ⁓ it. I Manny. Mm. Florida doesn't even know what cold weather concrete is. Jake Ables: They don't even know. I used to get so frustrated when I'd see and my QC guys down there would too, when they we would see air specs in Florida. I'm like, why? You're never gonna need it. But Florida, you know, it's a lot of high profile projects, sure. Miami, I was just in Miami a a ⁓ couple Paul: ⁓ my gosh. I love what he's trying to do, his mission. He looked around, he worked at a Ready Mix company and looked around and said, one of our most valuable assets are the drivers of our trucks. They are the folks that are front facing with the customer more than anyone else. And people are working their tails off, sometimes going the extra mile, and we they need to be recognized and rewarded. Jake Ables: weeks ago, skyline down there is unbelievable. Tower planes everywhere, stuff going up like that. So it's got everything you could possibly want. Like you have to be so diversified in your production capabilities and even in your sales capabilities, right? Like you need to be able to go sell a sixty story condo high rise on South Beach and then be able to turn around and go sell sidewalk. So Florida's got that kind of Paul: Instead of just sitting around complaining about it, he went and did something about it. And he started Rocket Start. Rocket Start's a digital platform where you you as a company can recognize the folks that are working hard and doing well, showing up at their job and just just being great, being great members of the community, great members of the industry, and valuable members of your organization. If you'd like to learn more, please go to gorocketstart.com. Ask for Manny Tejano. Jake Ables: Both, right? Where Philly is gonna be a lot more heavy industrial, heavy civil type stuff, a lot more bridges, a lot more power plants, water treatment facilities, high rises yes, but warehouses are huge. And then you can get out to the suburbs and you'll have some smaller residential guys, but a certainly less less component of their market. And then North Carolina from what I've thus far is ⁓ Paul: Yeah. Mm. He's freaking amazing. He can help you out. Gorocketstart.com. Ask for Manny. Gorocketstart.com. also, ⁓ you have interest in being a sponsor on the show, the title sponsors are sold out until November, but they have a couple of standard ads available through this time. We're not loading this thing up with ads. We just got to keep this thing free for the listeners. So if you would like to be a part of it. Jake Ables: you know, the the residential boom in Raleigh in particular is just on. We're just building single family homes hand over fist as fast as we can go. I don't know where they're putting ⁓ all. I mean, you go into some of these neighborhoods and it's, you know, hundred, three hundred, four hundred home developments ⁓ are gonna take place over years and they're selling ⁓ like hot cakes, man, so having geographical diversity, you know, lends it's you know, is great. And then with that is gonna come market diversity where you gotta 'cause you can't sell to a high rise contractor the same way you're gonna sell to a residential contractor. They have different concerns, there's different quality issues, there's everything's different. The core skill set's the same, but you gotta understand your audience. Paul: Please email at admin at slumpmonkeys.com. I will review everything personally. send you a media kit and we can work through it. Admin at slumpmonkeys.com. The first episode of the show, by the way, went freaking crazy. So when we had the previous podcast, I saw all the numbers. Mm. When you're selling the high rise, like who you said you're selling a high rise, so who are you selling to? Like who's the person you're having discussions with to make sure that selling materials is pouring that mud? And so I knew what to compare it to here. I cannot believe the head start that we have in this podcast compared to where we started with the first one. And all of the love we're getting on LinkedIn, I really appreciate it. The interactions, I really appreciate it. You can find us on LinkedIn.com. You find me, Paul Finley. My last name is spelled F-E-N-D-L-E-Y. You can find Slump Monkeys ⁓ LinkedIn, and you can always visit us at slumpmonkeys.com. That's M-O-N-K-E-Y-S. Jake Ables: Well, so for any high rise you're ⁓ you're obviously gonna get a structural contractor, right? You're Concrete structural guys, the bakers of the world, people like that, just as an example. Anybody going vertical. Now, going vertical incredibly difficult, even under the best of circumstances, right? You start with a giant hole in the ground that you gotta fill with concrete, ⁓ that's usually a mass pour of some kind, which is a whole skill set in and of itself. You need thermal control plans, you need logistical plans, you need all kinds of stuff. ⁓ you get out of the ground, ⁓ then when you start going actually going vertical, ⁓ know, you have to you're pouring decks, but pumping becomes crazy. Paul: Slumpmonkeys.com, Slump Monkeys on LinkedIn. Come join the community. You'll see clips from the show. Be able to interact with other people in that community. It's a good time. the next segment of the show is to be another recurring segment. So the first episode, we had Conspiracy Corner. It was a lot of fun. Thank you for Josh for coming for the full ride-along, not just the conspiracy corner, ⁓ where we'll talk about fun conspiracies that are ⁓ not they're outside the political sphere. ⁓ last week we did ⁓ Nikola Tesla and some of the Jake Ables: crucial. So the quality of the mix just has to be as tight as it can possibly be because when they're hardlining a pump in and you're going up thirty or forty floors, there is no room for error on the pump. It's gotta go. So you're using a very high strength, very high quality mix. So that guy's got that level of concern. But whereas like my residential guy, you know, and it I'll I'll back up for a second, ⁓ you know, service also plays a huge piece to it when you're selling these vertical ⁓ Paul: Mysteries surrounding his death and what happened right after it. It was super interesting. Thank you to Josh for coming on. ⁓ this next section is gonna be called White Paper of the Month. And I was actually inspired by someone else. ⁓ I have to give a little bit of credit to Dr. John Belkowitz. Now he was a guest on some of our other podcast episodes, and he's heavily involved with ⁓ or it looks like he might be heavily involved with. Jake Ables: guys as well. Like they can't miss. You can't have a cold joint on an elevated deck stories in the air. ⁓ just cannot it just cannot happen. ⁓ ⁓ your residential guy on the other hand, he may be able to be a little more flexible with service. You want to give everybody good service, ⁓ if they're working on sidewalk or something else or they're wanting to pour the garage after they pour the slab, you call ⁓ up to hey look, ⁓ is there any way we can push this to tomorrow? They're gonna be a lot more receptive to do that. They got a little more leash that they can play with. ⁓ Paul: With the Concrete Logic podcast. So if you haven't listened to them, please go check out Concrete Logic. Seth does a good job over there. Their show's not like this one. It's a little bit different, ⁓ but that's okay. ⁓ I I like what he does too. And I think ⁓ rising tide lists all boats. And if you're a fan of his, ⁓ fan of ours, I think you could be a fan of his. He has some interesting discussions. but but John Belkowitz was on program, the At 10 show, ⁓ and he something that really stuck with me. He said, I think this industry would be better off. Jake Ables: So that I mean that's in a nutshell the two huge differences. One, there's absolutely no room for error whatsoever. Like you're in for a penny, you're in for a pound. The other market segment, you're gonna have a lot more flexibility on it and the stakes aren't quite as high, but the work is like revolving. It's just like a revolving door of work on the residential side. It's as close to a printing press as you can get from the concrete standpoint. Paul: If read at least ⁓ white paper every month. And me, ⁓ as who like lives in the technical space, I was like, ⁓ yeah, for sure. I love that. I read white papers all the time. And then like I tracked, like not officially, but I thought about it one day. I tracked, I thought, ⁓ how many white papers have I read lately? Well, it wasn't one a month. I was way off that count, even though I So speaking of like all these houses in Raleigh, these four hundred unit developments where I was in one of those like a year ago, ⁓ with like one of your competitors, sorry, was hanging out with those guys and ⁓ by the way, you told me last time we thought you had eighteen different ready mix companies in Raleigh. That's insane. And I brought that up to Justin Lazenby when I talked to him on a previous episode of the show, ⁓ and ⁓ was like, Good luck with that. ⁓ And ⁓ I was in one of those developments like a year ago, ⁓ one of your competitors and we were playing with some mixes. And dude, they had like the way they planned that subdivision out was they they built the roads first. So they got road they got roads and they got the the gutters curbs are in and then they start putting in the houses and they just start at the front. thought of myself as someone who does keep up on that type of stuff. When I go to the conferences, I like to read the papers. I just wasn't I wasn't keeping that alive, that ethos alive. And I liked that eth ethos. So I figure, why not bring it here? Why so so with that inspiration from John, I'd like to start a new segment here. We're gonna do ⁓ white of the month. The first paper we're gonna talk about is the And they make their way to the back and then they circle back around and come back to the front and then circle back around and go back to the back. So if you're if you buy one of those first homes in that development, you're gonna hear construction in that neighborhood like literally the entire time you live there. Because they're gonna build right next to you, and then they're gonna build across the street, and then they're gonna be build behind you. And it's all so packed in there. I'm not I'm actually not sure how you would even It's a paper that Meta put out called Boxcrete. It's a Bayesian optimization open source AI model for concrete strength forecasting and mix optimization. Heck of a title there, fellas. when I first saw the paper come out, come out a couple months ago. When I first saw the paper come out, my initial thought was, ⁓ boy, ⁓ ⁓ Jake Ables: Mm-hmm. Paul: They do they just not know when they're buying this stuff? They're like, ⁓ I'm not gonna you know, once we're built and our neighbors are built, we'll we won't hear this anymore. That's it's not true. These trucks are coming in and out that they're hammering all day long for years. AI mixed design tool, you know, let's friggin see it, you know. so I opened up the paper, started reading it, and think it's important to talk about like what it is and ⁓ it So we should say what it I I would like to first say like what is it that can, you know, give give them credit. Jake Ables: Yeah. Yeah, it's asked myself that same question. Do these people realize that they're living in an active construction site and that we do intend to build more houses here? ⁓ not just stopping with yours. ⁓ So that's number one. number two, I mean, I think it just speaks to like, you know, the appetite to live in this area. Like people ⁓ are to, you know, endure that for ⁓ new in Raleigh. ⁓ And ⁓ Paul: Yeah. Right. So what what what is it? It is an open sourced machine learning algorithm that does have the ability to predict changes in mixed design and how those ⁓ will evolve from day zero to day twenty eight. Jake Ables: you know, that just speaks to the resiliency of the market, right? Like gonna I mean, people are just clamoring to get in here, they need housing. So that's to me, that's a positive sign. I don't live there, you know, like I don't have to deal with the noise. And if you can put up with it, ⁓ know, that's your that's your deal. ⁓ it's a it's a very positive indicator that people are willing to do that to come to this area. And that to me that that lays out like ⁓ that's gonna give us a good barometer for long term ⁓ ⁓ Paul: And they shared it with us. So the paper itself is actually pretty modest and it's pretty forthright. They're like, hey, we have an open data set. Our data was reproducible on a probabilistic framework. Yeah, there's some uncertainties. you know, we were able to not only predict strength, but then and then match it up with real world comparisons, but Jake Ables: If people are tripping over themselves and willing to do this and get in here now we ⁓ we're putting these things up as fast as we can, that's good sign. The bad sign is when you get fifteen or twenty units into that and one of ⁓ at sold yet. ⁓ Then got a problem. Then you got a big problem. ⁓ Paul: You know, we also are able to show you like a GWP calculation. So to reduce the carbon footprint. And I appreciated the honesty. I appreciated that it's not some magical black box. They're like, here, here's everything we did. Here's our full data set. And so as I was reading the paper, I wanted to give them some grace, even as I started like like getting through all the things that I thought were like wrong. Mm. Geez. I I just don't know that's an issue in your area right now, but that would be it would be a Jake Ables: Thankfully no, it's not. But I know they're they're you know, Florida is very susceptible to that. The residential market will boom and bust down there. boomed after COVID, ⁓ things calm down, people leave Florida, you know, they're just that's that's kind of indicative to that market down there. It is very boom and bust on the residential cycles. Paul: Right. And one of the other things that's like super sketch about North Carolina concrete construction is you guys don't have like in state cement production. And that that is so surprising to me. You got good limestone there and could have cement production. Instead, you gotta go to Virginia, you gotta go to South Carolina, or you know, a lot of imports ⁓ coming in and that's With how the study was set up. I was just let's let's start with what what could be better now that we've given them the some a little bit of grace. They they started the claim with like, ⁓ wow, we had five hundred and thirty-three data points. Like that was good. Now, for those of us that have run any kind of ⁓ you know, Gaussian predictive models or you've done some Bayesian statistical analysis. ⁓ Jake Ables: That's correct. Mm-hmm. Paul: That's new for you. Like you not the import side, but like the fact that you don't have local cement manufacturing. So what's that like for you, ⁓ working with your team to try to make sure you're getting the best deal out there so can go and sell and win these jobs? But you know, you you're sometimes going a long way for cement. The thing that you're always concerned with is the value of N. So what is your population? generally love that number to be above 1000. It has pretty much has to be above 30 to eliminate enough noise to get an answer. But as you get up to 50, then 100, 500, and then a thousand, the reliability of your results, the coff what you would call your confidence level. Jake Ables: It can be frustrating, you know, that our supply is not localized and given the volume of our like mentioned earlier, there's, you know, eighteen different producers in this ⁓ geographic just in the Raleigh and surrounding counties. So there's work to justify most of that, right? ⁓ Not having localized cement stores, having extremely high demand ⁓ and having go out of state for it ⁓ is, you it puts stress on your bottom line. ⁓ Paul: gets much, much higher. And if you can get above a thousand then you generally you're gonna have a confidence level above ninety-eight percent. And that's where we'd like to live. for five hundred samples are probably in like the ninety five percent confidence range. And so that's what they were trying to say. It's like, hey, we have five hundred thirty three data points. We have a confidence Mm. Jake Ables: when it comes to freight, but more that can be navigated around, right? You can navigate around the money stuff. You just need to know what to p prepare for. But it's not having the availability next door, right? Like if the terminal in Durham is out, then we're deadheading straight to South Carolina. That's a three hour ride one way. So you get to the point where, you know, paying a too high a price for something is one thing. Not being able to get it another. Paul: level of 95%. And in fact, when you model it out, the the regression model says that, you know, we have a 94. It is point.94. ⁓ okay. Yeah, I mean okay. But ⁓ you dig a little deeper, you realize they have 533 data points based on 123 mixes. And Jake Ables: You know, that's the difference between a you know, a stubbed toe and a broken foot. Right? If you can't get it, you can't make concrete. And that's a huge problem. So Sylvie, know, we're blessed. Up north we've got our ⁓ import terminal and we're ⁓ know, we're working on getting one down here as well. ⁓ excuse me, as well. it's under construction. That's been, you know, released to the public at this point. So that is huge strategic advantage for us. Paul: Right. Yeah. Of those 123 mixes, half of those are mortar cubes. So it's a concrete guy. I started looking at this like, wow, I got 58 mixes, and they're not the same mixes. It's not like they reproduce the same mix 58 times, which a lot of us have done in the past where we ran a mix 30 times so we could make sure we got the right F prime C and we're not having to over design for a brand new mix that we're trying to put into the field. You know, we don't want freaking 1500 extra psi just because. Jake Ables: in the in the long term. Paul: That's the that's in north port in North Carolina. What city is that in? I forget. That's right. Jake Ables: Moor Moorhead City, there's gonna be two domes erected there where we will receive ocean barges to offload our own cement and then be able to supply ⁓ not only ourselves but the market and that's a huge strategic advantage for us. Right? That is right in our wheelhouse 'cause we already import ⁓ Paul: we don't have any historical data, right? And that's where that 30 number comes in. That sample size of 30 is what allows the statistical models or standard deviation. We can actually calculate that and see that it's tight and reproducible and reliable. And in this case, there were they've got 58, but it's not 58 of the same mix. ⁓ a whole bunch of different mixes. And they've lumped those mixes plus each age of s of strength. Jake Ables: cement up north so really we're just duplicating that model down here. The infrastructure internal is already in place. We just have to construct the thing to do it. But this is right in our wheelhouse so we're I don't presume to speak for the Sylvies but you know, if I was looking at it, that would have been a huge driver for me to acquire this business down here. It's like, okay, there's obviously no cement manufacturing in the market. We own and operate a cement terminal. We're very good at it. a niche here. ⁓ then they've moved to fill that. ⁓ you know, once that gets up and r running, you know Paul: And said and extrapolated that and say, wow, we have all these data points. So it's not, it's not nearly enough data. But with that said, they were getting reproducible results. So I don't I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I don't want to say the model's useless because they don't have enough data. I would say they realized they they thought they had enough data, but why did they think they had enough data? Well, because they tightly controlled Jake Ables: I'm very confident that it'll benefit not only ourselves for our internal operations, but benefit the market as a whole just to have another player in it to ensure that we can sustain long term growth in North Carolina. Paul: Yeah, it makes total sense. And, you know, I went back and like looked it up. Why, why isn't there a cement plant in North Carolina? That doesn't it turns out it's all regulation driven. ⁓ that like Titan cement was the last person to try. And even after they went and did like all the rigorous work to get an air quality permit, which is almost impossible to get there, it ⁓ never got built. the parameters of the mix. They kept it inside one laboratory, which again, those of us in this industry that listen to this podcast are like, whoa, all this is based off Lab Creed? Yeah. Based off one lab, also yes. But it's a start and it was open source. So you don't have to take their word for it. You can go do it yourself on your materials and reproduce it and see if it works for you. And I like that approach. So they got their air permit back in two thousand twelve then fought legal battles against conservationist groups that were arguing like, you know, if you build this, the you know, nor Norwegian turtle dove will lose its habitat type of thing. And just kept fighting those things and then in two twenty sixteen they finally just gave up. They're like, nah, this isn't worth it anymore and just dropped it. ⁓ did they also take it out into the field and pour slabs? Absolutely they did. And credit to them, according to the paper, AI assisted mix design correctly predicted the strength ⁓ field cured slabs. Now, another shortfall upon like the initial reading. It only went to twenty-eight days. If they're Jake Ables: Yeah, to me, you know, as a as a lifelong southerner who's been around to different places, you know, you when you think of the South, you typically think of a very business friendly, low regulation climate. So that's surprising to hear that North Carolina's been that strict on it. I mean I'm sure they have their reasons for it, but I'm ⁓ know, it's it cuts both ways, right? Paul: Goal was to like reduce carbon footprint by using these SCMs, why would you not take it to 56 days? There's that this doesn't make any sense. There's not a s I don't know if there's any specs out there that would say if you have the SCMs that you can stop at 28 days. I think they all go to 56. So, you know, that's a little ⁓ know, also they they talk about, you know, their R squared being a point nine four in the Jake Ables: They've chosen to go that way on the regulation. That's their prerogative to do as the governing body, right? So, you know, business will have to navigate around that. But it on the other hand, I'm not necessarily a fan of it because one, it's just I you know, just my ideology. But you do that, when you restrict that localized supply of raw materials, ⁓ gets more expensive. Right? Like said earlier, you gotta plan for it, right? But the price is going up. ⁓ Paul: RMSE is also another ⁓ statistical point they have is is a 0.69 ⁓ KSI. So what is interesting about that? So that's ⁓ the root mean squared error. it's a statistical calculation you can run to say like what is the the variance on my from one mix to the other. So at 28 days Yep. Jake Ables: Right, businesses can't just be expected to absorb, know, higher prices just because ⁓ may be the Norwegian turtle dove that ⁓ be v ⁓ be impacted, you know, as an example. ⁓ we have to we have to straddle that line between responsible environmental stewardship ⁓ ⁓ regulation. Right? There's a there's a way to skin that cat where you can have both and the same time keep ⁓ Paul: I had a certain sh it should if I'm predicting a certain strength, how far off could I possibly be? And that's what this error calculation of point six nine is telling us. But what you're not seeing in that that's not like abundantly clear anyway, is so does that really mean? And what it really means is that as you get in strength Jake Ables: material prices at a point to where it makes sense for people to invest, ⁓ long term growth and to just make things more affordable for people. ⁓ Paul: That like it drives me nuts when innovation is destroyed by regulation. And here's the quote of what sunk this thing. According to an expert analysis, the proposed cement plant's air pollution would have resulted in hundreds of cases of acute respiratory symptoms, one premature death each year, and associated health costs of millions of dollars. Jake Ables: Mm-hmm. Paul: This model is actually better and more precise. when you're lower in strength, the variation is quite high. So like for a 4,000 PSI mix, it could return a design that's like 3,000 PSI. Or it could return one that's 5,000 PSI. So you gotta be careful, but if you're up at like 10,000 PSI, it could it's almost going to nail that whatever you're trying to get to. for the adjacent three county area end quote. They were gonna they were saying that like the new cement plant was gonna have all those devastating effects for North Carolinians. And that's what got it shut down. it's gonna be within a couple hundred PSI, which is interesting. and I I think most of these commercial mixes could probably use something like this. But again, how do we how would we make it better? Is you really would just need a larger sample size or not just, but one of the things you would help this is if you had a larger sample size and you ran those same mixes 30 times. Jake Ables: Well, know, I'm I I'm sure that you know, that is the position, right? That is their position. But ⁓ Paul: Right. Like you think we don't you think the business doesn't care? You think we don't want as cement and concrete guys to have healthy communities? Of course we do. These cement plants have scrubbers on them, they're catching all this stuff. And just right. Jake Ables: We breathe the air too. Right. It's not I mean, I get it. I get their their position on it and their findings, but it's not like we're gonna be starting tire fires in the parking lot or lighting oil drums. Paul: And you had the data points going out to 56 days, then a lot of this stuff actually tightens up. The fact that it fits the linear regression so well already tells me that with more data points, we're probably this thing's probably gonna tighten up and that error value is gonna come nicely into focused. So I think it's I think it's super interesting. I another limitation, and it look, the study can only be so big, right? So I mean, don't tempt don't tempt me with a good time, but yeah, like you know, but see, hey, the good for Sylvie says, all right, well, if they're not gonna do it, we'll fill it. And that means we're gonna we're gonna bring it in and we'll put it in our terminal. So those those hundred were there two separate one hundred thousand ton domes or two fifty thousand? Jake Ables: Yeah, that's that's the plan. Two domes, a hundred thousand tons apiece. Paul: And those are gonna be y'all's like yeah, it only only your material being those. You're not sharing those with anybody else. Again, I'm trying to give these guys grace 'cause I think it's super interesting paper. I'm thankful that they open sourced it. but the the model's looking at cement flash, slag water, high range, ⁓ aggregate course aggregate, and ⁓ temperature and time. Jake Ables: That is correct. It is owned and operated entirely by Sylvie. Paul: Dang, that's good. 'Cause a lot of times when you get to these ports, the domes that are on the ports, like they might own ⁓ and be leasing them to you or allowing you to put your domes on their property, but then they make you share ⁓ So it's awesome that you're gonna have them to yourselves. what you what you don't see is like fresh concrete. So there's nothing about workability. So they're loading these things up with SEMs, but if you can't place and finish it, then who cares? You know, I think it's a it's a huge miss. ⁓ there's SEMs that that aren't know, that aren't aren't available to be here. Like they're missing ⁓ calcine clays of the world. There's other alternative cements that just aren't able to be here. There's no ⁓ Jake Ables: Yeah, that was ⁓ again, I don't presume to speak for them, but knowing those guys as as much as I do, you know, if they're gonna do anything they're they're going in the whole way. they're ⁓ know, a ⁓ leasing dome space, you know, is ⁓ to it it ⁓ presents a quality ⁓ issue we don't know what they could be bringing in, right? Like if their cement sources different from ours, if it's the same manufacturer, that's one thing, but it's like if we you're leasing dome space to them and they're responsible and you know they bring another type of powder in, what levels of contamination are you gonna experience, right? Like we know we know the powder we're bringing in. It's been rigorously evaluated with the manufacturer to specifications that have been agreed upon. You know, it's a very streamlined Paul: place where I I didn't see anything anyway. ⁓ I looked through the repo. I did not see where they're actually looking at gradations. So there's no gradations that are put in there. aggregate aren't accounted for they mixed, know, the mortar and the concrete data together to sort of make this. So there's a little bit a little bit of wonkiness there. It's all in one laboratory. So there could be laboratory specific patterns that it's that it's getting ⁓ yeah, a hundred percent hundred percent. Jake Ables: efficient process and when you you know you start introducing variables into that it can get sideways really quick. they're just not that's just not something that we're prepared to do, you know, ⁓ an organization, I don't believe. ⁓ Paul: ⁓ you know, so I don't I don't know, but I'd love to see it looking at chemistries. love it ⁓ to see, you know, particle size distribution, not you know, on the aggregates, but it could also be on the cements if we want to go that far with it. have it be regional ⁓ or someone be able to like put in like what source they're getting, what quarry is it coming from, what cement plant. We could actually, you know, you could even have Let's go. So it's interesting hearing you talk about all this, people might not realize that like your job is essentially business development for a concrete plant. you're s you know, I mean I mean I don't mean this negatively, you and I have similar positions. We're glorified salespeople. And you you seem ⁓ you you seem like you n really know the business and and so you actually wrote a blog article a while back. It was the first article you you wrote and it was ⁓ I mean you could you could go super deep on it. I mean you could go really, really deep on the things that could be in there. but at the end of the day, it's a great start. And it's open to us. So ⁓ I have actually already began the process. I ⁓ built an app based on this model that they've open sourced and can plug ⁓ mix designs. You can look at what the predictive strengths would be. ⁓ you can really good. Like when I first saw you you wrote it, I was like, ⁓ yeah, the marketing guy's doing a marketing thing. Let's ⁓ let's see what Jake was spewed out of his mouth here. But it was freaking good. It was really good. And I was like, ⁓ my gosh, this guy actually knows what he's talking about. Like, ⁓ my wow, this is I was actually I was very, very impressed. So ⁓ so I I encourage anybody to go read the thing. I I read your second one too. If you've got more than that, I haven't read any more but I read the second one. It was also really good. So anybody if you see Jake's writing, it's actually really good. look at the GWP value reduction. but right now it's ⁓ it's closed only. I I ⁓ I set it up so that it will be accessible to outside parties, not just to me. And what I and I and I did this because it's not just useful for me, but I think it's the right thing to do with open source technology. You're supposed to take it and make it better. And so I've taken the model and I've taken the IDL model and I've built an app and the app's got the ability And it got me thinking, like, okay, how did a sales guy like get this experience? Cause I know how I got it. And it was school of hard knocks, flying around the country, getting my teeth kicked in. I was like, I wonder how he got it. And you told me about how when you joined Mashmire, they had like a special program that they put you into. I'd I'd love if you'd share that with the audience, what it was that you got put through your three years when you were down there. ⁓ to be retrained. So what does that mean? Well, so the app has a tier one and a tier two layer to it. Tier one is you just use a meta's algorithm right out the box ⁓ put in the mix design proportions that we're interested in and then ⁓ what it see what it says. And what would those results be under laboratory conditions with, ⁓ know, cements and materials it's already tested. That's step one. Jake Ables: Yeah, so ⁓ when Mashmeyer hired me out of school, I entered their leadership development program. And Sylvie has the same program. A lot of the suppliers, the the major suppliers are going to this now and it is to expose recent graduates, you know, 'cause you come out of school, like to be honest, like you know some stuff, but there's a big difference between a university academic setting and then walking into like the real world. So that program at Mashmire and at at Sylvie and other places is designed to expose graduates to the different aspects of the business itself. So for instance, like when I got to Orlando, I was fired up and probably too full of myself. And I asked the bosses, I was like, All right, where's my office? And they they're like they got they're like, Yeah, get in the truck, we'll show you. They drove into the block plant in DeBerry, Florida, north of Orlando, and they're like, You see that blockyard out there? That's your office. You're gonna go stack blocks. Paul: Step two is is the tier two, and that is all the things that I wish it had. wish it had the aggregation so we could spit out tarantula curves. I you so we're talking about coarseness factor charts and all that stuff. I wish it could do that. I wish that I could put in exactly what the cement sources and quarry sources were. I wish that I could put in more than just flash and cement. I want to you know, calcium clays and glass and all this other stuff. I want all that. Jake Ables: You're gonna break down orders and put together the pieces so we can get this block in and out. And then I moved from there into the block plant itself, which was nice because it was shaded even though if there was no air conditioning. Just picture working outside in a block in a giant parking lot filled with concrete block in Orlando in July. It was really fun. I was like, I've really made some good choices here. But you know Paul: It's it's gonna that is available tier two will be available, but it will be private. So the app set up that if you're listening to this and this is interesting to you, and you know, we can work together and it will be private to you. So every company would have its own login, its own database that's not accessible to anyone else. We can upload all the mixed designs, all the results, all the historical stuff that we that we can get our hands on. Yeah. ⁓ Jake Ables: Yeah, like what did I do with this life? but moved from there to block dispatch and then I my tour there, went into the ready mix size, started driving a load or ⁓ concrete, plant manager, concrete dispatch, sales, and ⁓ you so as you go, again it's a school hard knocks, right? You're gonna pick up things doing that as you go. ⁓ Paul: Pile it all, retrain the model, and then see ⁓ see if it works. Give us a starting point ⁓ for future lab tests to see how far we can drive down these GWP values. ⁓ if that is something else that is interesting to you and you'd like to work together on that, please email me at admin at slumpmonkeys.com. Make sure you mention ⁓ AI app and we can ⁓ Jake Ables: And then being able to 'cause you can't run this business, like nobody off the street could just walk in here. I don't care if you went to Harvard and got your MBA, right? You can't just walk in here and understand what we do. This is not a environment where like if you run one accounting firm, you could probably run another accounting firm. ⁓ is like organized chaos ⁓ on good day. ⁓ But Paul: We can get to work on that together. All right. It was fantastic. Thank you guys for joining me for White Paper of the Month. We're going to continue that ⁓ once a month. So probably, you know, roughly one every four episodes. if you have a white paper that you would like to suggest, you can send that in. I've said the email a few times. You can send it in on LinkedIn. Also ⁓ can find it there. but in the meantime, we are gonna get into our esteemed. Organize chaos while your customers scream at you for things that may not even be in your control. Jake Ables: Yeah, and the the det the devil's always in the details, right? There are I mean, depending on which ty which manufacturer concrete plant you use, that's gonna load trucks differently. Like there are just so many different to running a business that you've gotta see it all. If you wanna be a good, effective manager and really understand this business, there's no other way to do it. You just can't. That's why all the guys that you know Paul: guest. I'm so happy for folks to meet this guy. if you if you on the East Coast, you may already know him. ⁓ but for those of those of you that haven't interacted with Jake Abels of Sylvie Materials, talking about an up and coming ⁓ in the business. He's he's amazing. He's a he he's as equally a good dude as he is a good concrete guy. And for that, I love and appreciate him being here. Jake Ables: run these businesses now have been in this forty plus years and they've seen everything and even then there's new stuff that comes up. So you've got to ⁓ get back to the point, the leadership development programs are gonna give you the best start at that. It's gonna be what you make it no matter where you're at. ⁓ if you're running a plant but you take none of it in, ⁓ that's your fault, right? That's your that's a decision that was made. Paul: Let's get into an interview with Jake Abels. Jake Ables: But I d I just grabbed onto it with both hands because I knew where I wanted to go in this industry and what the opportunity looks like. Like I'm thirty-two right now. What the opportunity looks like for me at fifty two, I can't say, but will chances it's gonna be on the upswing because I spent these years, ⁓ you doing it the hard way. ⁓ Like you if you c if you get to the point where you can listen to concrete in a drum and get a decent idea of what the slump is, that's where you need to be. You need to be able to just listen to things and like identify things on site. Like I can tell I can be in a plant and listen to it and know a Mac valve's not firing correctly. by the sound and listen to the humming, weird vibrations, you know, listen to concrete knocking around the drum. Like ⁓ have to have that little level of knowledge. ⁓ to be successful in this because the devil's just always in the details. Paul: I'm just I'm just glad like as a guy who's in sales that you have that experience. It it drove me nuts. So the it drove me nuts that the company I was at before. We we kept trying to tell like high we had sales guys and I needed more help. We had sales guys, all right, let's just teach them the product. But there was just something about like being raised in the mud that you just you just have to have that. And it was so hard and the the company I was at was great. Don't get me wrong, it was Fantastic. They were great to me and I love ⁓ and I didn't even want to leave. Something awesome came along and I took it. But that it was so hard to get like a shiny shoe sales guy out there to tell somebody like, Hey, I think I have something that could help you. And they didn't want to hear none of it. If you didn't know you hadn't been on, you know, two AM pores and if you hadn't had, you know, mixes lock up in the drum and if you had I mean just the things that you just can't experience you just can't know. until you're there and you're doing it. And it is so it's such a it's an interesting thing and it's cool that you're in that position, you're willing to do this type of job and you've got those communication skills and you get to put all that to use. I I think the sky's the limit for you, man. Jake Ables: But This is not a business. This is not a fake it till you make it kind of business, right? There's some like if I was selling just widgets or something off the street where like, you know, or consumer goods, right? Like, ⁓ my my mop is better than the other guy's mop and here's why. Like, you know, you can sell that. Think of your stereotypical sales child. This is not that. Sales is probably the last thing I do the sales process. ⁓ it's everything else. You gotta know it, you better know the product inside and out. You better know everything coming your way. Like before we jumped on this. ⁓ I was working on a logistical plan. It's gonna be, you know, all heads on deck situation. But it's like, where's the pump go? Where's the washout? Where are the lights? Where's all this stuff? That's not a sales function, but it is in this business. You've got to be the orchestra conductor, essentially. That's my job. That's really what it is. Right. And as soon as like before I leave today, I'm going to meet with our ops team. We're going to talk about how we stage these trucks, ⁓ which drivers are gonna lead off. Do we want to do this, that, and the other? Then I'm going to talk to my QC. guy. Is our mix going to be dialed in? Where are we at with this? What's the stone moisture content, you know, historically running at? Which store sources are we on? It's just a litany of stuff you have to to prepare for. And then the only the sales function comes when I walk out there and shake the guy's hand and go, all right, we're ready, let's do this. the sales function. And ⁓ stuff will sell itself if you do all that. Because you're not picking a salesman, you know, you're picking a partner in these projects is really what it comes down to. Like, does ⁓ is my supplier going to do what they say they're going to do? Are they going to deliver for me? ⁓ am I gonna be standing here holding a you know six figure change from my general contractor because we dropped the ball? ⁓ And and then you look around and like where where's my help? You know, that's a lonely spot to be in. ⁓ And You know, you gotta avoid that at all costs, but by preparing yourself, you know, as a sa in the sales function with all those tools, like you have every tool you need avoid that, and then that's how you are in business. That's how you get relationships with people that last the length of your career. ⁓ third people that do business with Sylvie up north ⁓ will not pour with anybody else. ⁓ do not trust anybody else because Sylvie's got the you the pedigree ⁓ and institutional expertise to get these jobs done. the money, the risk is just too great to roll the dice. ⁓ can't do it. Paul: Well man, I think that is a perfect spot to leave this off. cannot wait to see ⁓ in store for you. Glad to be able to call you a friend. I wish I was seeing you this fall at Concrete Works. I heard heard you're not coming, so that's you know breaks my heart a little. But if you change your mind, we'll be in Nashville ⁓ ⁓ make sure make sure you look me up. ⁓ before we get out, ⁓ could you tell everybody what your North Carolina division is? That big beautiful people are watching on YouTube, that big ⁓ beautiful logo behind you. Jake Ables: Yeah. So this is the logo from Eagle Rock Concrete. ⁓ that is the company that Sylvie acquired down here and we kept the logo. So that big beautiful Eagle is still gonna be on the drums. The only the only difference is is they're gonna put a diamond around it. So the Sylvie Diamond that you see on our logos up north, they just put a diamond around the eagle. But you know, keeping the name and the branding down here was incredibly important to us because of how well run and how the brand reputation was down here. So that's where that logo comes from. We were like, Yeah, we gotta keep that. We can't, you know, branding there's power in branding and the Eagle Rock name, know, commanded respect in the market. So like, you know, the internal discussion was like, We'd be crazy to lose it. So we're keeping it. Paul: Well you were telling me that that branding comes a strong branding comes from the owner. Like he's the previous owner, ⁓ he's still around, like eighty years old and kicking butt around. Jake Ables: Jay Lofton, yeah, he's a couple doors down from me actually. of the sharpest executives I've ever seen ⁓ the concrete business. He's been around longer than I've been alive. ran a company down here called Ready Mixed Concrete, ⁓ sold that to it eventually sold to Argos, I believe, ⁓ after a couple of acquisitions. But they were, you know, they were in North and South Carolina, did three million yards a year. ⁓ He was president of it. you know, the guy's just incredibly sharp, but he's in his early eighties now and he's here before I am and he's here after I'm gone. The guy's a machine. And it's been a real privilege and most of the teams like that down here that came with the Eagle Rock acquisition. Guys most of the guys in this building have been here longer than I've been alive and they know the markets inside down. So it's been a real pleasure to work with them and see how you know, see how they operate. It's a different way of doing things than I'm used to in the past, but that's you know, that only adds arrows to your quiver, you know. n there's more than one way to skin a cat, brother. Paul: You nailed it. hey man, I'm glad things are looking up for you. Happy for you and your wife and your your young daughter there. You landed in a good spot, North Carolina. It's freaking sweet, man. It sounds like Eagle Rock's got it going on. So how can people find you? ⁓ they I know they can find you on LinkedIn if you search Jake Abels, anywhere else you want ⁓ to connect with you? Jake Ables: That's it man. ⁓ that's the only social media I've got. So ⁓ my wife gives me a hard time. She's like, You're long LinkedIn, you one of those guys. I was like, Yeah, come on. Paul: Yeah, it's the only one I use too. I I have I nope. Jake Ables: Like I can't do TikTok or Facebook. I just can't do it. My I I value my sanity. I can't do it. Yeah. Paul: I I don't even have ⁓ So you can't even so even if you wanted to find me, you're not gonna find me on the TikToks and the Facebooks. But you can find us on LinkedIn, you can find this podcast as well on LinkedIn. Please subscribe on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, wherever you are listening to the show. Once again, we want to thank the great and powerful Jay Gables for coming on the show. Jake Ables: Thanks, Paul. Pleasure.