Latest / PNW Haunts & Homicides / Innocence & Injustice: The Steve Titus Story - Part 1

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Innocence & Injustice: The Steve Titus Story - Part 1 · PNW Haunts & Homicides

• 0:00
  Probably not exactly the birthday plans that either of them had envisioned, but they understood
• 0:07
  that a serious crime had occurred, and they wanted to help if they could.
• 0:11
  Steve was polite and cooperative throughout the entirety of these interactions,
• 0:17
  even smiling in the mug shot taken of him at the time.
• 0:20
  "It's probably what I would do to frame it."
• 0:23
  "It's funny you should say that because,
• 0:26
  because of the celebratory nature of their evening up to that point,
• 0:30
  the pair even asked if a photo of the two of them could be taken."
• 0:34
  "Hi, Kelsey." "Hi, Caitlin." "Hi, creepy people."
• 0:43
  "Hello, hello." "Hello, what?"
• 0:45
  "I'm pretty sure he did something really weird with my eye because
• 0:49
  some lashes are falling into it." "Oh."
• 0:53
  "So if I was like that, it's fine, don't mind me." "That's why."
• 0:57
  "I'm used to being in a podcast and not on a video."
• 1:00
  "It's true. Yeah, it's a little bit of an adjustment, and I have a lot more lash going on right now.
• 1:07
  I'm very blonde. It's a real adjustment. If you'll say I super glued my eyelids together."
• 1:15
  "It kind of looks like it." "Does it?" "Oh no."
• 1:20
  "I'm kidding. She looks so pretty." "I mean, I look okay, but I'm all done up for our engagement show
• 1:28
  later. So." "Yeah, and I really brought it down on my side just to make her look even better."
• 1:35
  "Oh my god." "Yeah, because, um, Cassie and I are engagement show." No.
• 1:40
  "I won't be in these photos. Just this camera here right now."
• 1:48
  "All right, fine. I was going to invite you, but whatever."
• 1:52
  "If you're new to our creepy corner of the world, this is PNW Hunts and Homicides,
• 2:01
  where we chat about true crime, paranormal, and all things creepy in the Pacific Northwest,
• 2:07
  and also occasionally mango sparkling wine." "In our show."
• 2:12
  The show that we're doing right now and presenting for you, we do a tarot reading at the end of every
• 2:18
  episode for a little deeper insight into what we're talking about for the day. "Yeah, it's true.
• 2:24
  We'll do it again today." "Yeah, we do it every time." "Yeah, mostly." "Listen, there's always an
• 2:29
  exception to the rule." "Yeah, usually for like bonuses, which we have on our Patreon."
• 2:34
  "Sometimes we do bonusy things." "Oh man, we do bonus episodes. What else do we do, Caitlin?"
• 2:45
  "We're working on getting them videos for every episode. Add free." "Add free they already have."
• 2:52
  "Yes, just to be clear." "Oh my goodness, do we have any businessy business to get to, do you think?"
• 2:58
  "I'm an announcement. It's hot today." "Yeah, it's really hot." "And it was hot yesterday,
• 3:04
  and it went to the beach, and it was a perfect beach day at Oregon." "It was like one of those rare,
• 3:10
  very rare warm beach days. It was great." "Yeah, that sounds so lovely." "Hey, no, come to Oregon, come to the
• 3:18
  coast." "Or don't, because there's already too many people here, but you know, whatever, do you?"
• 3:24
  "Sorry, I made it like really enticing, I didn't mean to. I thought we wanted our creepy friends to
• 3:31
  come hang out." "We do what?" "Damn it." "All right." "If you live at the coast, I would not be opposed to
• 3:38
  inviting me to a house party." "Oh, bonfire." "Yeah, type thing." "Yeah." "Are you ready?" "Yeah, I'm ready."
• 3:46
  "Okay." "Freak my heart." "She's not ready, but here we go." On October 12th of 1980, at 7.22 PM,
• 3:56
  a 911 call was placed from a secluded road south of SeaTac, the Seattle airport.
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  But SeaTac, if you're nasty. "Yeah, yeah, yeah." "We are." "Yeah, of course." "Of course."
• 4:09
  Reporting to the dispatcher that a young girl had just been raped, she said that her attacker
• 4:17
  had instructed her to stand in front of his vehicle until he drove away following the assault.
• 4:24
  She was terrified that he would shoot her because he'd made no attempt to obscure his face or
• 4:31
  hide his identity. "Oh, wow. Bulzy." "Pretty Bulzy." "But yeah, I could see how she would come to that
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  conclusion that's fucking terrifying." "He's like, just walk away from the car. Nothing else bad will
• 4:44
  happen." "Wing-wing, no, Jenudge, Saint-O' War." "When she was able to confirm he left the immediate
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  area, she ran to a hillside home. The humble home was situated on her right-hand side just a very
• 4:59
  short walk away, which was lucky considering Sunset was over an hour prior to her making that short
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  trek. So, it's guard-outside." "Yeah." "It belonged to Paul Liston. He was a retired carpenter who was the
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  last holdout in the area. Everyone else had sold the property to the airport." "Oh, it was going to be
• 5:25
  part of an airport expansion at some point." "Okay." So, it was his call that came in to 911
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  dispatch at 722 that evening. The victim's description of her attacker addressed kind of the essential,
• 5:44
  all of the essentials related to his physical features and appearance, but it wasn't going to give
• 5:51
  the investigators a lot to go on on that alone. She had been attacked by a white male aged approximately
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  25 to 30, standing about six-foot tall, with a medium build, as well as a beard and shoulder length
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  light-brown hair. At the time of the attack, he was wearing a three-piece cream-colored suit." "What?"
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  "Yeah." "Weird." "That is really weird." "Row weird." "Do you just come from like a wedding or something?"
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  "What?" "Yeah." "Yeah." "It's a weird choice." "Very noticeable too." "Uh-huh." "If there's going to be a lot of
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  weird color palette choices, and that's when you need to remember, this was the 1980s." "Okay."
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  When later questioned, the port police's number one suspect informed them that he didn't even own a suit.
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  Let alone a cream-colored one. "Right." "I don't even have one of those." "Yeah." "Who'd have one of those?"
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  "Oh, well, okay. It's a very impractical wardrobe choice. I would argue." "Yeah." "But I don't know,
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  maybe other people can, you know, function in light-colored clothing. I, for one, would have to swear
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  off like all forms of sauce." "Yeah." "No condiments for this gal." "I don't know how people are doing that."
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  "No condiments for you tonight." "Um." "You're wearing very light-colored clothing." "Oh no." "Oh no."
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  "Okay, well, good thing we had some fancy sauce before we decided to record." "She's cut off from the
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  fancy sauce." "So cool." "Consequences." "The man was driving a blue car with a blue interior,
• 7:56
  which frankly sounds pretty hideous." "Wow. He's very, what is that called, like, monochromatic?" "Yeah."
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  "Like, keeping in the same color palette just different shades." "I didn't even really pick up on
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  that, but you're so right." "But it was very of the time." "The 80s, am I right?" "What up with YouTube?"
• 8:17
  Jerry Seinfeld had like, "Oh, right, right, right, right, yeah." "Yeah."
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  She was also able to describe various items that she had noticed inside his car during the attack.
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  But perhaps most importantly, she said that he had a temporary license plate with digits six and seven
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  repeating in some form. So she was pretty sure it was like a six, six, seven, or maybe a seven, seven, six.
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  "Okay." "If it were me, that's exactly how I would bust one of these fuckers. I would rainman the
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  shit out of them. Okay, because numbers that are useless, oh, I will remember them until I die."
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  "Hopefully you don't have to do that ever." "Yeah, yeah, no, I'm just saying like, when I'm driving
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  around in my car, like I'm looking at license plates and I'm just playing all kinds of fun math
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  games with the numbers on people's plates." "We're no." "Yeah." "Now, let me say it out loud,
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  that does seem pretty weird." "Well, weird." "Okay, that's okay, we accept you for who you are."
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  "Okay, great, because that's just kind of the type of neuro-spicy bullshit that my brain picks up on."
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  You know, especially when it's left to its own devices, at length. And I would have to imagine
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  probably most especially when it's attempting to disassociate or going into essentially self-protection
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  mode. So, that's super exciting though, right? Because that's got to be something, like a piece of
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  hard, trackable data that feels evidently, right? Kind of, maybe a little? Yeah. I'm not sure how far
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  you would get though. That doesn't... Yeah, exactly. It's a little bit like, you know, maybe we'll get lucky.
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  Maybe all of the blue sedans with blue interior are registered to plates that start with eights.
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  Who knows? Yeah. As investigators work the case, they began developing the rough outlines of their theory.
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  They felt that it seemed pretty likely that the assailant lived in the area nearby.
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  So, they began searching the area around Pacific Highway Sound. As luck would have it. A light blue
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  1981 Chevy Chevette was located at 120 AM. No one was in it at the time it was initially spotted,
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  so officers waited for the driver to return to the vehicle. They figured it was worth sitting on
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  the car for 20 or 30 minutes if that's what it took. I mean, how often is law enforcement going to get
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  handed a potential lead on a silver platter like this? Yeah. Maybe ruminating in the restaurant
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  parking lot set things off on the wrong foot though. They were immediately suspicious of the man
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  leaving the restaurant with a young attractive woman alongside him. Was she his next victim?
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  I don't know. I hope not. They had very little doubt that they had found their man.
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  Because, you know, it's a blue car. So, well, did they...
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  I'm not going to ask any more questions. I'm just going to let you go. You won't be happy with the answers.
• 11:59
  Yeah. Well, did they check though? I mean, they are... This is literally less than six hours after the
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  car. I'm essentially... So, guys, I don't think you've solved it. I could be wrong, but I rarely am.
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  Yeah, it seems a little bit like... He's your suspect, right? Not like your...
• 12:21
  Like he's not even a suspect at this point. Because they have no idea who that car belongs to.
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  He's a person of interest. Yeah. At best. A suspected suspect. Yes, exactly. Yeah. There's layers.
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  It's like a Bloomin onion at the outback, you know? However, while this was a white man with a
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  similar hairstyle and facial hair, again, I'd like to say it was the '80s, he wasn't exactly a perfect
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  match in their estimation. Because he was only about 5'8", and the victim believed her attacker
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  had been roughly six feet tall. Yeah, it's like a little bit taller than 5'8".
• 13:04
  Us. Well, come lunches, four inches. Yeah. The witness could have been mistaken about his height.
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  Sometimes one detail of a victim's statement might be slightly off, especially after such a traumatic
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  experience. But they weren't going to let this probably super guilty dude drive off into the
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  sunset with another would-be victim. They wouldn't let that happen. No. So they sort of made up or
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  maybe exaggerated just a little bit about a minor traffic infraction as the man made his way down
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  the road so that they could pull the pair over. Is that legal? I mean, it's only illegal if you could
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  cut. Okay. And they are police officers, so they probably won't. Probably not at first.
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  The 31-year-old man, Steve Titus, told officers that he and his fiance Mona were returning home to
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  Kent. He had picked her up from Denny's at 930 to celebrate her 21st birthday with a drink.
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  Yeah, it sounds sweet. I don't know if it's true, but yeah.
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  Earlier that day, in the afternoon, he had attended a family gathering until he returned home at around
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  630. From then on, he'd hung out with a friend watching a movie until he left to pick up Mona.
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  Titus assured the officers that his friend that he'd been with prior to picking up Mona could vouch
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  for his whereabouts. Okay, Alibi, City. All right. In fact, right around the time his friend showed up
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  at the apartment, he'd placed a call to Mona at 7pm on the dot. Okay.
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  Steve Titus was a super easygoing dude. So he allowed authorities to search his vehicle,
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  while both he and Mona were questioned individually. He was informed that he matched the description
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  of the attacker provided by the victim. Steve Titus agreed to answer questions at the police station.
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  Even after being told they were investigating a rape allegation involving an attacker
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  that was a preliminary match to his physical description. Yikes. Yeah. Without a lawyer, did he get a lawyer?
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  Well, I mean, if you're not guilty, why would you need a lawyer? Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Why would you?
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  I wonder. Oh, no. Hmm. Let's see how it plays out.
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  Probably not exactly the birthday plans that either of them had envisioned, but
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  they understood that a serious crime had occurred and they wanted to help if they could.
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  Gosh, especially its Mona's birthday, right? Like, she didn't have anything to do with this at all.
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  Exactly. Steve was polite and cooperative throughout the entirety of these interactions,
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  even smiling in the mug shot taken of him at the time. Oh, because I was probably like, yeah,
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  this is like, I'll probably never get to do this again because I'm like such a good person.
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  Exactly. Probably what I would do to frame it. It's funny you should say that because,
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  because of the celebratory nature of their evening up to that point, the pair even asked if a photo
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  of the two of them could be taken. They figured, won't this be an interesting story to tell at a
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  cocktail party or to our kids someday? Yeah. Oh, remember that birthday of yours that we spent,
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  you know, a good chunk of the night down at the police station. We just wanted to really try to help
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  the police solve this crime. Yeah, it's a crazy story. Yeah, you need proof. Yeah, because man,
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  if you told anybody about what had happened up to this point, they'd be like, no way. Yeah,
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  Pixar didn't happen. Yeah, Pixar didn't happen. Mug shots or didn't happen. Yeah.
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  Because of course, they both knew Steve had zero involvement in the crime.
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  So what was the harm in cooperating with the police? They were just doing their jobs.
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  They were totally doing their job.
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  Totally doing their job the way they're supposed to and not anything else.
• 18:04
  Feel like you're lying. Sometimes I lie, but it's always on accident. Or to create
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  suspense. Or it's always on accident or it's on purpose. Like I said, or to create suspense.
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  Potato potato. Either way, she's always lying. Yikes. Anywho. Just kidding, I trust her.
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  Not long after their visit to the police station, a photo montage was shown to the teenage victim.
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  In fact, it was just the day of following the attack. And it was conducted in her mother's to come
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  home. She reviewed carefully for some moments and then pointed to Titus, stating that it had to be him.
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  He was the closest one. What do you make of that? Not good. No, no, not good. Immediately based on what she says.
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  You know, red flags. Yeah. Yeah, if these are the only options, that's the guy because he has a beard.
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  Yeah. Yeah. I'd also like to point out that based on the way this is worded, it sounds like she
• 19:29
  believes that the perpetrator is most assuredly included amongst the photos. And it's up to her
• 19:38
  to determine which of the men it was, rather than simply reviewing to identify someone.
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  Whether the attacker was amongst the men's photographs shown to her.
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  It's just like a huge set up. It feels like. Yeah. I just don't get worse. And it's like,
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  it's not her fault. It's not her job to know like what the right thing to do in the situation. Exactly.
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  That's what the trained professionals are for. Or in this case, perhaps untrained monkeys.
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  But poor Celia, that was her name, Celia. Of course, as a victim of sexual assault,
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  particularly as a minor, initially her name was kept private. But later, she would decide that she
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  wanted to share her story with the public. Wow. Without an attorney present, Steve Titus was
• 20:44
  interviewed by law enforcement again. He provided an additional statement regarding his whereabouts
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  at the time of the assault. This session was not recorded. Why not? It's a really good question.
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  Isn't that like evidence? Usually a thing that you're supposed to.
• 21:06
  Sounds like a good idea to me.
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  That night, Steve Titus had been driving a company vehicle. He worked for Iverse,
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  Seafood as District Manager, overseeing roughly 100 other employees of the company
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  between seven area locations. Well, he did. It didn't take long for his life to be turned
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  completely upside down by this case. He was arrested at the company's office on October 14th
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  by Port Police just days after the crime. Normally, I would say alleged sexual assault,
• 21:57
  but it's without question that Celia was attacked. However, the question remained
• 22:06
  regardless of how decided law enforcement seemed. Was Steve Titus the guilty party?
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  Following his arrest, Steve was able to post his bail of $2,500 after spending the night in jail.
• 22:24
  That's not a lot. Well, it was 1980. I mean, a little bit more, but still, I guess it wasn't murder.
• 22:31
  I guess I usually hear those things associated with murder. It's a lot more.
• 22:36
  It does tend to be a pretty significant sum.
• 22:43
  Well, this is something you'll be interested in. You asked about this, actually. Is it about ghosts?
• 22:47
  No. His next step was hiring an attorney who luckily believed his pleas of innocence.
• 22:57
  I would hope so. It's a good word. Well, okay. Defends attorneys don't always believe that their
• 23:03
  client is innocent. They are just, you know, like anybody else entitled to a good defense.
• 23:09
  Right. Now, despite the fact that it would not be admissible in court, the prosecution was willing
• 23:17
  to strike a deal. That if Steve passed a polygraph, the charges against him would be dropped.
• 23:24
  Oh, boy. Okay. Not admissible in court, but we'll go ahead and drop the charges if you pass.
• 23:32
  That literally makes no sense, like no sense. It was the '80s wild times. Yeah.
• 23:40
  The man conducting the examination was dui Gillespie. He was a former Seattle police
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  polygrapher. Now, obviously, Steve is thinking, yeah, I'll do it because he's like, you'll just drop
• 23:58
  the charges. It's like a medicine. And of course, it'll be like negative, right? Or pass. I don't know
• 24:04
  what the, yeah. Of course. Of course, I'm going to get off scot free because I didn't do this.
• 24:11
  All accounts indicated that dui Gillespie, he's the one administering the polygraph that he's a very
• 24:21
  kind and ethical man. He was also a very well-respected expert in the particular field.
• 24:29
  Okay. Like being an expert in bullshit doesn't... Yeah. Well, he actually, I will say this, he has
• 24:37
  some things to say that I think the prosecution probably was like, you don't, you don't, you don't
• 24:46
  got to say that. He understood the limitations of the polygraph. Okay. But, you know, it's an imperfect,
• 24:56
  I want to say science because that's the phrase, but it's, I mean, my god, it's
• 25:02
  pseudo-science is that what it's called? I mean, almost. Yeah, I mean, there's real science involved,
• 25:08
  but like... There's little little duhickeys that go back and forth. You know, you know, the duhickeys.
• 25:14
  The duhickeys. Yeah. Is that how they still do it or was that like a really old school type of thing?
• 25:19
  You know, I don't know. I would assume. Yeah. And they're just not in popular usage. Yeah.
• 25:29
  Not, I mean, certainly not with the frequency that they once were. So I can't imagine like,
• 25:35
  you're not going to be upgrading your polygraph machinery at this point. I was thinking, like, maybe
• 25:39
  now it's like on a computer and they like look you up, but it's like on a computer screen, you know,
• 25:44
  not just like... And it could be. I think I have seen tests where it's like, oh, this doesn't look like,
• 25:49
  you know, we time-traveled back to 1930. Yeah. But yeah, I don't know. If anyone's taken a
• 25:56
  polygraph recently, email us and let us know what it was like. Yeah, right after you email your lawyer.
• 26:02
  Because who the hell let you do that? I mean, some people just have to take them like in the military.
• 26:09
  Which is just... Okay, we can't go down this road. We can't go down this road. I'm just going to get
• 26:19
  upset and then I'm going to start losing eyelashes and I can't with this. No. But I have no strong
• 26:27
  feelings on the topic as per usual. All right. Both the prosecution and defense agreed to him
• 26:35
  administering the polygraph exam to Steve. Because that's the deal they struck. And like I said, he's known
• 26:43
  for being like fair, ethical, he's a good dude. And he's real good at this. Unfortunately, when Steve
• 26:53
  failed the polygraph test, because turns out being real anxious might impact the result.
• 27:03
  There was only one other option offered in lieu of prison time, admit guilt, and submit to a
• 27:12
  treatment program at a state hospital for sexual psychopaths. Oh my god, the real guy is still out there.
• 27:20
  Wait, no, Cassie, they've got him. No, they don't. Yeah. You've been Steve didn't do it. It's not great.
• 27:32
  Steve is such like a nice guy name. I feel like maybe that maybe I'm biased because like I have an
• 27:37
  uncle named Steve. Yeah. My mom's wife and his name is Steve. Steve. He's probably not listening,
• 27:43
  but that's okay. Yeah. My mom will be like, Steve, I play this for you real quick.
• 27:47
  Do you know what I realized? What? The like, I think it was the Beetlejuice episode. I mentioned my
• 27:54
  mom like three different times that I'm constantly talking about my mom. Yeah. Well, is that
• 28:00
  weird? She's adorable and lovely. She's funny and just, yeah, I'm not seeing the problem, I guess,
• 28:08
  is what I'm getting at. I love my mom. Sorry. I just love my mom. I'm like, again, still not seeing
• 28:15
  the problem. I'm obsessed. Have you seen the show Smothered? That's not like it's reverse mother.
• 28:23
  She's like, God, I wish I could get away from my mom. Of course, being the honest and exuberant young man
• 28:34
  that he was completely assured of his innocence. Steve declined and so the case went to trial.
• 28:42
  That's the place where we're supposed to have a very well-defined set of rules to help a jury
• 28:50
  of his peers determine whether he was guilty of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt.
• 28:56
  Just a quick refresher on that process because there's been a few things that haven't gone exactly.
• 29:02
  Like, there's most. Yeah. What's unreasonable doubt? I don't think that's, I think that's one of those
• 29:12
  terms that like doesn't really go both ways. It's like, is it doubt? Just say doubt. Yeah. I don't know.
• 29:19
  Well, okay. So they do define what reasonable doubt is. So I guess the flip side there is
• 29:27
  unreasonable doubt. But the way that they define it, it's not really intended to be like
• 29:33
  two opposites. It's intended to be more like, you know, we are specifically outlining
• 29:42
  what qualifies. I guess that's true. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I might have been just talking
• 29:49
  out of my ass. It sounds right to me. I was thinking too of like how they picked the jury. Like,
• 29:53
  they don't want anyone who's biased. So maybe like, yeah. Unreasonable doubt would be like,
• 29:58
  oh, you're a super biased against this person. Yeah. Well, sir, you believe that all people of this
• 30:04
  race gender or creed are criminals. So I'm going to say that's unreasonable.
• 30:11
  Dn reasonable. Dn reasonable. On February 25th of 1981, the trial began. So that's just about four
• 30:23
  months after the attack occurred. So that's pretty quick. That is really fast. Well, fast.
• 30:31
  The defense tried to argue that the victim's identification of Steve from the photo array
• 30:37
  should be excluded from evidence. Cassie's nodding her head and she doesn't even know the half of it yet.
• 30:44
  It's unreasonable. No doubt. No doubt, bra. Very unreasonable.
• 30:50
  His photos were differently sized and styled compared to the other five included.
• 31:00
  What? I mean, why not just circle his photo with a red pen and draw in arrows pointing to him while
• 31:08
  you're at it? Like, did any of the other dudes even have like beers in hair? I have no idea.
• 31:15
  Yeah, I haven't read a lot about what anyone else in the photo array, like what they looked like
• 31:23
  or anything because everybody's so focused on the fact that like, um, hello, that was all of that
• 31:29
  was so improper. Yeah. And improper is a polite way of saying, fuck up.
• 31:34
  Shouldn't that immediately be like what's that called when they do something wrong in it?
• 31:42
  I mean, it should be stricken and should like that shouldn't have been admissible. Yeah. Hello.
• 31:48
  Like what? I take it your so upset that it might have been included. Did I not say that already?
• 31:55
  No, I don't think so, but you kind of gave me a way to do every shot. You're not hiding your feelings.
• 32:01
  No, I'm not very good at it. I have no poker face. This so-called evidence really should have been
• 32:08
  excluded, just in case you were unclear on my thoughts up to this point. However, the judge left this
• 32:16
  to the jury to decipher. So yeah, he was like, yep, that's totally allowed. Because you know, so often
• 32:23
  juries are made up of brilliant legal minds, obviously. Yeah, they have the training to know what should
• 32:32
  be allowed in the courtroom. Yeah. Yeah. And they know what a proper photo array should look like.
• 32:41
  We're so lucky that we're so educated in this country that we all just get that basic knowledge
• 32:47
  through school, you know, we're essentially all Brainiacs. Yeah. I can't believe we made it through
• 32:52
  that with the straight face. Why do we even need the judge? The fuck is the judge for?
• 32:56
  I mean, that's kind of, I was like, you had one job. You had one job. You know, be the judge. You make
• 33:03
  the decisions. Whew, I feel it in my temples. Yeah, just like a like an ice pick right to the brain.
• 33:10
  Okay, but everything else will probably be super legit and linear and point to the clear
• 33:17
  cut guilt of the man in question, right? Right. They've they've hit their quote of mistakes.
• 33:23
  Totally, except there would be some changes to the timeline in witness testimony.
• 33:31
  And that would become another troubling aspect of the case and trial, though for some,
• 33:37
  perhaps only in hindsight, because everything really is clearer in hindsight, I guess.
• 33:46
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• 34:01
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• 34:06
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• 34:11
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• 34:23
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• 34:28
  Amy had another solution to dance. Using her drunken misstep as the starting point,
• 34:37
  Amy's feet quickly improved and Irish jig. The river dance continued to pick up the pace,
• 34:44
  as she spun around and proceeded to stomp her feet rapidly on the hard ground. You can find
• 34:50
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• 34:57
  Check them out, creepy people. You can find their info in our show notes.
• 35:07
  Now, we don't usually do much in the way of trigger warnings, but I will say maybe fast forward,
• 35:13
  like 30 seconds if sexual assault is particularly triggering for you. We won't be describing the attack
• 35:21
  itself, but something is about to happen in the trial that can only be described as a gross
• 35:31
  retraumatization of the victim. I mean gross in both senses of the word, very exaggerated,
• 35:39
  and also it gives me the ick. Fast forward. Look at her over there. Push in the buttons.
• 35:48
  The batteries are... Yeah. You're like a mom's like stomping her foot on the floor of the card,
• 35:59
  trying to break. At one point during the trial, the prosecutor asked the victim whether she
• 36:07
  recognized her attacker in the courtroom. Clearly pointing to Steve, listen if she doesn't know who
• 36:15
  the guy is, maybe you shouldn't be pointing him out, but also like what other dude is like, yeah,
• 36:24
  on a pedestal, but he's sitting at the defense table. Yeah, so exactly. That's what I was trying to get
• 36:30
  at. I don't think it could be much clearer than that. Okay, but that's not even... that's really not even
• 36:36
  the bad part. He took it a step further, asking her to approach Steve and... this is a quote,
• 36:44
  "Step down off the stand and walk over to the defense table and get as close to Titus
• 36:53
  as he was to you on the night you were raped."
• 36:56
  "Literally shaking your face." "Do you not hear your side?"
• 37:01
  "This was a man, I assume." "How did you guess?"
• 37:07
  "Wild guess." "Yeah, wild guess."
• 37:10
  The victim followed instructions and quickly erupted into tears,
• 37:18
  sobbing hysterically. The prosecution's tactic no doubt having the intended effect.
• 37:24
  But here's the thing, facing a courtroom full of people and telling her story of that traumatic night
• 37:32
  and eventing her life could have easily driven her to tears alone. But forcing her to face a man
• 37:40
  that she now believed to be the perpetrator, it's unthinkable. And in this particular exercise,
• 37:53
  I believe it proved to be incredibly unethical for a whole host of reasons. And my God,
• 38:02
  how badly do you want to win this case? You know, if he's guilty, I can understand being passionate
• 38:09
  about it. But to do that to the victim, I have a hard time thinking that there's any justification
• 38:19
  for that. "I'm thinking." "Yeah." When the state's own forensic specialists were called to the
• 38:26
  stand by the prosecution, they said there was no evidence found that substantiated the girl had been
• 38:34
  in Steve Titus' car. No evidence? Huh? Because she wasn't. Right, right, right. I know every time
• 38:46
  I read that, every time I say it in my head, I'm seeing Kanye rush the stage, "I'm gonna let you finish."
• 38:55
  I'm assuming there's gonna be something after that that's better. 18 fingerprints were lifted.
• 39:05
  And none of them were from the victim. Various fiber samples taken from his vehicle also proved
• 39:12
  contrary, obstructive, fruitless, and otherwise counterproductive to their case against Titus.
• 39:20
  Sometimes when I get fired up, I like to use multiple adjectives. I have to say, "I'm a little
• 39:27
  bit trial if there's no evidence." Such a good question. It really is. Literally everything,
• 39:38
  everything is hedged on this witness identification, this, you know, victim identification, and it's so
• 39:47
  faulty. What? Yeah, ex. There was no damning DNA staining on the vehicle's interior. The fibers
• 39:58
  found within the vehicle's interior didn't match the victim's clothing. Hair found in the vehicle
• 40:05
  was not a match for the victim either. They were, quote, "disimilar to the victim." And I'm sorry,
• 40:13
  how does someone violently rape someone in their car and eradicate all evidence of that in just a matter
• 40:24
  of hours? But like there's other like hairs and fibers and things. Right. Yeah. So it's like, okay,
• 40:30
  well, he didn't just take this and like have the thing like full on Walter White, wiped down.
• 40:38
  Like maybe he hung up plastic everywhere. Yeah. That's, you know what? That's not something she would
• 40:45
  remember and be able to recall. No. Yeah. You make a good point. I'm sorry. Not just a hat rag,
• 40:51
  this one. I like that. No, it really points to like just how unreasonable it is to think that like
• 40:59
  that's possible. Oh, by the way, he also watched a movie with his friend and you know, took a call
• 41:07
  from his girlfriend and he did all of this in addition to absolutely scrubbing that thing clean.
• 41:15
  Except if anybody else is DNA. Right. You just tweezered all the hairs out.
• 41:20
  Because there's no way. Like there's no liquid. Yeah. Guys, gross, but I'm sorry. There would be
• 41:29
  something. You telling me there's no bodily fluid anywhere, anywhere after that? You're going to look
• 41:37
  me dead in the centers of my soul and tell me there wasn't any bodily fluids. Nothing that you could
• 41:46
  pick up that like hair too. I know all like not all women have like thick hair, but most of us,
• 41:53
  you just sit there and think you're careful. So behind, I'm sorry. Yeah. Also like the fibers that were
• 41:59
  taken from the victim, presumably from the vehicle's interior did not match. It's just like, I'm sorry,
• 42:06
  but like what do you have here? You just found somebody who was a white guy driving a blue car.
• 42:12
  That's as far as we got. Man. The detective changed the time estimates related to Steve Titus'
• 42:23
  return home from his family gathering by nearly 30 minutes. On the stand, the detective said that
• 42:31
  Titus reportedly arrived home at 655 rather than 630 as he had very definitely previously stated.
• 42:40
  The only period of time that Steve Titus is aware about could not be confirmed by someone else
• 42:49
  present with him was the 40 minute period from the time he left his parents at shortly after 6 p.m.
• 42:57
  So 610 to put a round number on it to the 650 arrival of his friend, 40 minutes.
• 43:05
  Whereupon they decided to watch a movie. Ron Parker, the detective,
• 43:14
  which feels like a generous assessment, the detective that spoke with Titus to collect his statement
• 43:23
  did not complete a written record of the account and details until months later. Coincidentally,
• 43:33
  just days to the trial commencing. And I happen to know that that's actually pretty much
• 43:43
  totally legal. Usually that would only happen in the case of a traffic infraction.
• 43:52
  But yeah, it's, I would say in this case, I guess, it doesn't appear to be technically illegal
• 44:00
  what he did there. Super unethical and because he changed facts of the case or, you know,
• 44:07
  testimony, that part, yeah, that's not, that ain't cool. Can't do that. How is that legal to like keep
• 44:14
  in there? So how this works is basically, if you're changing facts of the case or testimony,
• 44:22
  things that people have said, obviously, that is not legal. I am not arguing that. I'm saying they
• 44:29
  don't have to actually record or like complete the citation paperwork in a lot of instances
• 44:37
  until like six months later. They have like a six month grace period in a lot of jurisdictions.
• 44:44
  So if you are speeding and a police officer sees you speeding, they can just send you a ticket
• 44:49
  like six months later. This is not that. Yeah, there's no like details that matter. So I don't. Yeah.
• 44:56
  How are you, how are you recording this six months later when you didn't record the statement? Yeah.
• 45:07
  It doesn't make sense. It's very like, yeah, I can't remember what I fucking ate yesterday. Like
• 45:15
  six months from now. How many other cases are you working on to? Exactly.
• 45:21
  Facts that are important. Like, how do you just remember it all? How can you be sure that you're not
• 45:27
  getting details of like any details of the case? You know, I mean, oh my god, it's just, it's,
• 45:36
  it's so unconscionable. And like, regardless of whatever grace period or window that they have to
• 45:43
  be able to like report things, it's like, right, but you took a statement. Like, you already did that.
• 45:48
  This is recorded. This is something that like, and this is going to be presented in court.
• 45:54
  So I think you got a pretty good field for how things are going so far. Yeah, not great, not great.
• 46:05
  Not great. Not looking up. Not great. But you're going to have to wait a little bit to
• 46:12
  get some information about the rest of the trial. Because it's really hard to divorce some of the
• 46:21
  remaining details of the trial from the other thing that happens. There's more. Mm-hmm. Okay.
• 46:30
  But I will say, I think we end this on a relatively high note for true crime. Okay.
• 46:41
  What's that? Oh, no, I mean, at the end of part two. Well, tell me the end.
• 46:45
  I know she's like, you mother tracker. Okay. So the end is, there's going to be a little bit of light
• 46:54
  at the end of the tunnel. I don't know. It's after you fuck us all up though. It's okay. Yeah. You're
• 46:59
  cool. I mean, it's, it still feels, um, pretty unsatisfying on the whole. Just because it's like,
• 47:07
  yikes, we had to go through all this to get to there. I seem super not worth it. So it's a long walk
• 47:15
  for a short glass of water, um, in some respects. But I think it's a really important story.
• 47:20
  I trust you. Like I said earlier. Yeah. She's like, for sure. Fuck, I'm very sorry.
• 47:25
  Oh, well, are we going to do some tarot? Let's do tarot time. Two states tarot,
• 47:36
  dash, pp, cat. Yeah.
• 47:40
  Yeah. To both. They're going to come. What did she get? Is that literally the same one that we just
• 47:57
  put away? Is it? Yes. Okay. It's the eight of ones. Eight of ones. Okay. Well, we both shuffled it.
• 48:09
  That's weird. Yeah. We put, we drew that for, wasn't Beetlejuice, was it? No. I think it was your last one.
• 48:18
  Oh, interesting. Yeah. It had to have been. Because like, what else would we draw for? Oh my gosh. It
• 48:24
  makes so much sense. Immediately. I'm looking at the keywords and I'm like, yep. Okay. So weird.
• 48:29
  We shuffled the crap out of it. We really did. We really did you guys. We really did. We also don't
• 48:37
  like drawing the same cards. No. It's like not as fun to keep reading the same thing. So we wouldn't
• 48:41
  do this on purpose. It's a little old. I know. It's thinking we should get like different,
• 48:46
  like different books. Oh, yeah. We should. Yeah. Because we're still learning. I mean, we don't
• 48:51
  have them all memorized. There's no way we could, this is like how we are learning is to keep reading
• 48:56
  the same thing over and over. So yeah. But it would kind of be nice to vary it up a little bit more.
• 49:01
  Yeah. I know. We do a little bit. Well, this one has like the little book. Yeah. I feel like those
• 49:06
  interpretations aren't really as developed. So yeah. There's like little stories. But okay. So we
• 49:13
  should add to our to-do list tonight. We should look for some more books. Okay. If anyone has
• 49:19
  recommendations, yeah. Because you can't really have too many books. I don't, I don't think anyone
• 49:25
  has ever said that ever in the history of forever. I'm sure lots of people. It's a really stupid people.
• 49:32
  I love it. Okay. Who left the bag of idiots open? Yeah. That's right. Them don't like books.
• 49:43
  They, oh, okay. Eight of ones are keywords are action, excitement, new experiences and urgency.
• 49:54
  When the eight of ones appears, you can expect your life to speed up big time. It feels like an
• 50:01
  understatement. This card suggests lots of action and excitement coming your way. Ooh, excitement
• 50:07
  doesn't always have to be like a positive though. Yeah. It can be bad. Yeah. Yeah. This was for the
• 50:12
  school one. Yeah. This is the Carpe Diem card. Whatever you put into motion now takes off at a rapid pace.
• 50:21
  Oh my god. This isn't saying how well it fits. This case as well. Yeah. I feel like that's on like
• 50:27
  like the cops side because this poor man didn't like do anything. Yeah. So like nothing he did put
• 50:34
  this into motion. It was all like the police's fault basically. I mean, yeah, definitely in terms of
• 50:39
  like what we're thinking of who's that fault for how this evolved. I think, you know, you're
• 50:48
  definitely talking about like that's, you know, that's on law enforcement, but I will say there are
• 50:54
  choices that every single person made along the way that played a role in it. Not that they're at fault,
• 51:01
  but it does, it does change how things, you know, it changes what is set into motion.
• 51:08
  That is true because he did design to like go with them and do the right thing. Yeah. But yeah,
• 51:15
  that definitely is like punished for being a good guy. Yeah. The eight may also indicate a whirlwind
• 51:23
  trip. This card shows a busy period in your life when you feel catapulted towards something you desire.
• 51:34
  Oh, I don't know. Okay. I'm going to have to think about that. Maybe not to I feel like, yeah,
• 51:39
  some of the wording. I feel like something that's like attracted to you. Maybe not like something you
• 51:45
  want, but like something that's drawn to you. I don't know. What do you think? Yeah. I agree. Oh, okay.
• 51:53
  I was like, I was like, I want to make sure I didn't cut you off. You know, you always say it better than me.
• 51:57
  No, sometimes I'm a potato. Perhaps you feel a sense of urgency in financial areas and may need to
• 52:08
  make split second decisions. Okay. Well, we might have a little bit more on that in part two.
• 52:14
  In a reading about work, the upright eight suggests a time of inspiration when things happen fast
• 52:24
  and you have to make quick decisions. Your career moves rapidly forward and you have to hustle to keep
• 52:33
  up. This card can also represent job-related travel, which is so interesting because obviously,
• 52:41
  if you're investigating a crime and you're going, you know, travel can be, you know, not necessarily
• 52:48
  international, like between to comments, yeah, or, you know, if you are somebody who represents seven
• 52:54
  locations of a local seafood restaurant chain. I don't know. Yeah. Oh, and it did like, it moved
• 53:03
  really fast, too. And they had to, they obviously made some decisions that were hasty. Yes. But I don't
• 53:10
  understand why. I guess just like get it done faster. Yeah. I think I feel some of the reversed
• 53:22
  ones energy from this card, too. So it's kind of interesting. I'm, I'm going to pull from the other
• 53:31
  half of the deck after this. I feel like we did that last time, too. Like we, like, it related
• 53:36
  with both sides and it just, yeah. I feel like sometimes it kind of just clarifies. But I feel like
• 53:42
  this card, this is like one of the cards in particular that you pull and even like the imagery of
• 53:47
  the birds kind of like flying around on it, I feel like it could like go either way, like up or down.
• 53:53
  Yeah. There's a couple of cards that we've gotten that are like, I'm just, I just keep doing it.
• 53:58
  And I'm doing the eight. The like, yeah, yeah, figure eight. Yeah. In a reading about love, the upright
• 54:07
  eight points to a passionate and exciting romance. It can indicate a sudden love affair that
• 54:13
  sweeps you off your feet or a hasty marriage. It's interesting. Hmm. Okay. Steven Mona,
• 54:22
  were they like would they like me? They were a little bit of a whirlwind romance in a way. Yeah.
• 54:28
  Okay. Oh boy. Okay. Yeah. Five of points. Yeah. Okay. So we've got, that's, I mean, just very
• 54:41
  definitive ones energy. Okay. Oh wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Okay. Key words. And I was like as soon as I looked
• 54:49
  at that one, I was like, I think I'm remembering some of the like, principles of this card and
• 54:57
  sort of the, oh yeah, okay. Did we say it's like two bobcats or something fighting each other?
• 55:03
  Like wrestling, which is like just the imagery of two people like, having a tussle, I don't want to say.
• 55:11
  I think that the keywords and just the description of the traditional tarot card are going to make it very
• 55:20
  clear. Key words are competition, ego battles, disagreements and confusion. So I can't find one of
• 55:33
  those that doesn't fit. And when the five of ones appears, it suggests a struggle for power,
• 55:42
  money or recognition. Ego battles may interfere with the smooth flow of life. In some cases, it shows
• 55:50
  competition for resources or control. Confusion and disagreements exist. And in the traditional deck,
• 55:58
  it literally shows five different presumably, you know, male figures that appear to be like
• 56:05
  battling with like, staffs. They're like kind of play fighting like in the way that like, maybe young
• 56:11
  boys would. Oh gosh. Okay. The interpretation. Bickering and self-interest cause irritation.
• 56:20
  And you need to concern yourself with getting matters back on track. Wow. There's aspects of the
• 56:28
  case that I've researched that I didn't even put in my notes for part one that that is just like,
• 56:33
  woo, front of mind, I might have to try to talk a little bit about that.
• 56:38
  Discontent may arise from differences in philosophy or personality. When this card shows up,
• 56:47
  you may be defending your territory, putting up a fight to hold on to what you think is yours.
• 56:54
  Try to assess the situation objectively. This may be a mock battle or a conflict of egos
• 57:01
  that lacks genuine substance. Wow. Cannot make that shit up. That is the same. Like,
• 57:08
  defendant, even the user were defending like mock trial. Yeah. What I kept here. I know. Yeah,
• 57:19
  this was a mockery. Anyways, in a reading about money, this card may show your financial situation
• 57:27
  is unstable or competition is heading into your take. Arguments about money and spending cause
• 57:36
  tension. In a reading about work, the five can represent competition in the marketplace.
• 57:43
  In-house conflicts or stubbornness may also cause problems. Perhaps you're confused about your
• 57:50
  direction or you lack self-confidence. I think some people were definitely confused. Yeah. I mean,
• 57:56
  some people might have had a little too much self-confidence. Arguably.
• 58:00
  In a reading about love, this card suggests you're letting your ego rule. You may stubbornly
• 58:08
  refuse to compromise or make necessary changes. The five can also reveal differences of perspective
• 58:15
  that cause problems. I would say putting it as differences of perspective is quite generous in
• 58:25
  this case, but yeah. Yeah. Wow. Okay. So the part that I, the first sentence, literally of the
• 58:35
  interpretation, big ring and self-interest cause irritation and you need to concern yourself with
• 58:41
  getting matters back on track. So Steve Titus' initial defense counsel said that he would get
• 58:51
  really frustrated only because he could really tell that he really felt that Steve Titus was
• 59:01
  innocent. He really felt that like deep in like his gut and not everyone that you represent as
• 59:09
  like a defense attorney is going to be innocent. In fact, arguably, probably maybe a majority of the
• 59:18
  people that you're going to represent are guilty of something and it may not be as violent or as
• 59:23
  awful as this crime, but a lot of people they don't did the damn thing. But he just really felt like
• 59:31
  he didn't do this. Like there's, I just, I can't picture it. I believe him and he knew enough
• 59:39
  about the timeline to know that pieces of it were fabricated in some of the second round of
• 59:47
  testimony and the different statements that were brought to court. And his frustration not only
• 59:56
  came from the fact that he felt like Steve Titus was innocent, but that because Steve was so passionate
• 1:00:04
  and he was so clearly like, how can this happen? How can I be, you know, facing a conviction when
• 1:00:12
  I didn't do this? And you know, like I have alibi witnesses, all of these different things.
• 1:00:19
  And he would just rail against like what the hell is the system that this is allowed to happen?
• 1:00:27
  And it's completely understandable, but it wasn't productive. He's like, and he had this conversation
• 1:00:36
  with Steve, but also with members of his family where he would say, listen, you guys are paying me
• 1:00:44
  $120 an hour to have this conversation or it might have even been, even back then, it might have been
• 1:00:51
  $300 an hour. I can't remember what number he said now. As soon as I said 120, I was like, that doesn't
• 1:00:59
  quite feel right. I think it was 300 an hour. At any rate, you are paying someone a significant sum
• 1:01:06
  to have these conversations where they're trying to develop your defense and they are trying to
• 1:01:12
  represent you legally. And while that frustration is super understandable, it's like, this is not
• 1:01:20
  productive. It's not good. It's not a good use of your time. It's not a good use of your funds.
• 1:01:26
  Like we have to move on. Let's make the most of all of our resources so that we can prove that
• 1:01:32
  you are innocent. And we can get you out of this situation, but can like super understandable
• 1:01:40
  why somebody would just be driven to, I mean, damn near the point of madness about, like I didn't
• 1:01:50
  do this. How can this happen? It would be terrible. You'd be absolutely beside yourself, I feel like.
• 1:01:58
  The money thing, too, kind of made me think of how much funding like the police department had.
• 1:02:07
  I'm sure that they're always trying to like speed things along and want people to do things
• 1:02:12
  faster so that you don't spend the money on it. Yeah. I mean, I don't know for sure, but I assume.
• 1:02:17
  Yeah. I mean, the other aspect of that too, and it's not something that I delved into specifically
• 1:02:23
  in part one, but Steve's parents threw the entirety of their life savings into his defense.
• 1:02:33
  Everything they had basically. I mean, yeah, what else you can't not.
• 1:02:44
  Yeah, I mean, and the worst part is like, you know, these are people's livelihoods.
• 1:02:51
  They were not young people. I'm sure at some point that would have been money that was designed
• 1:02:58
  to help them be able to retire. And my God, but how do you let your child go to prison for a crime
• 1:03:07
  that he didn't commit? A crime that they were, I mean, they were such a key part of his alibi.
• 1:03:14
  Having been, you know, he came from a family function. And when we really look at the timeline and
• 1:03:24
  the places where all of these things occurred, it is just not physically possible. I remember I did
• 1:03:32
  read a book about this case where they talked about this guy is either the fastest or the longest
• 1:03:42
  dick in the West. And they're because they were like, either he did this in like 15 minutes. And like,
• 1:03:50
  that was a lot of things he had to do and pull off in 15 minutes or he's literally stretching his
• 1:03:56
  dick all the way from Kent, which I thought was a hilarious visual. It was pretty funny. Yeah.
• 1:04:03
  And you know what? Steve definitely was the bigger-dicked man in this situation. I said, but I said.
• 1:04:11
  There was something you said in the beginning of the interpretation about it was just,
• 1:04:16
  it probably goes without saying, but it was about power, like wanting power. And you know,
• 1:04:21
  everything I've consumed about true crime usually says that like a rape isn't really about
• 1:04:27
  like sexual gratification. It's about having like power over somebody. Yeah. That's true. You know,
• 1:04:34
  I honestly, because so much of what we talked about in part one was really focused on the fact that
• 1:04:40
  it's like, wow, how is this even going to trial? And so I'm thinking about it in terms of like ego battles
• 1:04:47
  and power struggles and everything in terms of the law, the legal system and law enforcement.
• 1:04:55
  But it hadn't even occurred to me that like, yes, I mean rape is a crime where someone is trying
• 1:05:01
  to assert dominance and they are trying to, you know, gain power and control over someone. So that is,
• 1:05:08
  wow, I, and even more the fact that he let her live too. So obviously, it wasn't about killing her.
• 1:05:15
  Right. Yeah. It was, it was really just about that. Well, yeah. Oh boy. Oh, oh boy.
• 1:05:23
  I feel like I could go on about this case for so long. For another episode.
• 1:05:29
  Yeah. And you know, we're not just going to be talking about Steve Titus' trial because they're,
• 1:05:38
  I can't really say much more without giving it away. Don't go and look up the case, you fuckers. No
• 1:05:43
  spoilers. I mean, if you want to look it up, I guess, but there's just, there's a lot. I mean, to call
• 1:05:51
  it a bloom in onion is, it's not an overstatement. There's a lot. Yeah. We're going to bring in some new
• 1:05:58
  characters in part two. And yeah, okay, we'll see. We'll all be here. Yeah. She's like, baby. So you. Yeah.
• 1:06:09
  I'm not going to read what's in the little book because I feel like we did a good job and
• 1:06:15
  Caitlin has a photo shoot to get to. I do. She's got to like go be happy and in love and whatever.
• 1:06:23
  God, that sounds exhausting. I'm just kidding. I'm very excited. It is really hot, though. So I'm a little
• 1:06:30
  bit nervous that I'm going to like just melt. I think hopefully there's like just a nice breeze,
• 1:06:35
  not too much to ruffle your hair, but enough to make you feel cool. We'll be here in the shade. Wish me luck.
• 1:06:42
  Everyone wish her luck right now. One, two, three, go. Okay, I did it.
• 1:06:50
  Oh, okay, you guys. It's really hot and these lashes will fall off if the humidity is too high.
• 1:06:57
  Have a creepy ass day. See you next Tuesday.
• 1:07:04
  Next Tuesday. Stay away from monochematic outputs and cars. Yeah. Because they might get you in trouble.
• 1:07:11
  Also, beards. Apparently no one has beards anymore anyway, which is a pay trail bonus joke.
• 1:07:17
  Yeah, sorry. You had to be there. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:07:24
  I don't know how to drink a breather swallow or
• 1:07:42
  okay. All right. I see what you did there. I'm not going to say it. Yeah.
• 1:07:49
  That's what she said. And just like that, she said it. Sorry, Michael Scott was just nagging me in the back of my head to say it.
• 1:07:59
  As he does. He wouldn't let me not. Yeah. That makes sense.
• 1:08:04
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