Latest / Rosters to Rings Podcast / Hot Seats and Hard Caps with Jeff "Skin" Wade

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Hot Seats and Hard Caps with Jeff "Skin" Wade · Rosters to Rings Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Rosters to Rings. I'm your host, fad
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Levine alongside my co host Chet West. We've got a
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: wonderful show for you, action packed NBA information. We've got scandals,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: we've got trades, we've got firings, we've got hirings. Check.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: We're going to hit that in the second segment based
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: special guest. But there's something in segment one you wanted
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: to touch on. What do we got? Chet?
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Well, faed MLB has been on fire this season so far,
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: just through the month of June, with managerial firings, and
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: we've now lost a general manager this early in the season,
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: which is curious being that we have the draft and
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: whatnot coming up. I want to I'll get to the
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: general manager here in a bit. I want to touch
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: on these manager firings. As a fan, I see these
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: games and I think to myself, you know, when a
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: team starts going downhill, I start thinking, they got to
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: get rid of this guy, they got to get rid
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: of the manager, they got to get rid of so
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: and so I start wanting to cut, you know, the
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: legs off of the horse here talking about I see
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: these guys. You know, it seems like we start moving
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: players back and forth. That doesn't work. We start moving
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: players in and out of the lineup. Then the next thing,
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: you know, a manager's head. I saw Carlos Mendoza, the
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Mets got rid of him this past week. He seemed
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: like somebody that is very well liked within that organization
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: and among the players.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: You know, you.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Had Francisco Lindor coming out saying I didn't play well
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: enough for him, I did not do my job. And
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: when I see players see that, when I see players
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: say that, I start to wonder, is this a is
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: there something bigger going on here behind the scenes that
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: we are not seeing. Is this just not a good
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: situation for Carlos Mendoza and he's being kind of cut loose,
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: and maybe he was doing everything he could. What do
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: you make from these this type of a move.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Well, so I think we've seen now this is our
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: third managerial firing of the season, which is pretty significant
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: at this point. I think from a front office perspective,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: when you make these types of changes, you kind of
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: expect one of three outcomes, and honestly, I think these
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: three teams have hit the mark on all three. They've
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: hit the spectrum. So just Just to recall, we saw
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: that the Boston Red Sox fired Alex Korra. They promoted
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Chad Tracy from within their Triple A manager, and they
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: experienced the outcome of when with Alex Korra, the team
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: was ten and seventeen, with Chad Tracy, the team has
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: been twenty six and twenty nine.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: So marginal, not a huge difference, right, not a huge difference.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: So basically, the change difference there.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Didn't give them the spike that they were hoping for
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: their thirty six and forty six chet. They're in the
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: last place. They're twelve and a half games back of
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: the first place Yankees. So that's one outcome. And honestly,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: that's one of your biggest fears when you make these
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: changes is that it doesn't actually affect any outcome whatsoever.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: And I think that forces the front office to look
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: themselves in the mirror and say, hey, maybe this team
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: wasn't quite as good as we thought it was going
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: to be, and maybe it was more of a personnel
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: matter then it was a managerial matter. And ched I
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: think you would take a note when we were talking
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: about this offline was that this team has a lot
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: of money on the on the on the IL right now,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: this team's certainly ninety five million work of salary that
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: is on the IL or in the minor leagues, that's
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: pretty significant.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Well, the injuries start to mount up, I mean, I've
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: seen it with my own Tigers this year, and when
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: that happens, it's almost like people's hands are tied to
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: a degree. How much can you really blame injuries on
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: a front office? Is that something that as fans we
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: should be sitting there saying, oh, you know, the injuries
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: are mounting up. They didn't prepare their you know, their backups,
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: they didn't have good backups.
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: Or is that realistic to think that?
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Well? I think I think that is our job. Our
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: job is not only to have the twenty six man
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: roster that you were going to post an opening day,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: but it's the next line of defense. It's a line
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: of defense after that. And I think the teams that
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: do this the best don't see a ton of drop
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: off from the first ranked players to the second. And
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: it's hard to say check, but when you've got a
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: pail that's in the close to three hundred and eighty
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: million in which the Mets do, and when you see
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: drop offs on their players. When you see the Boston
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Red Sox, who started the year with the sixth highest payroll,
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: and you see significant drop offs, it's hard not to
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: look to the front offense and say, maybe we didn't
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: prepare this roster quite as well as we thought we had.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: So the Phillies situation, the Phillies let go of Rob
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Thompson back in April. Likewise, right they started nine to nineteen.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: Thompson's been there since twenty twenty two, led him to
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: a World Series in his first season in the postseason
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: every season since not like the Phillies have been underachieving
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: to the degree of being a bottom half of the
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: league team that's got to let people go. This was
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: more of a Rob Thompson couldn't get them over that hump.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: And now Don Mattingly comes in and the team goes
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: thirty eight and eighteen. That is the best record in
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: MLB since that point when they let Thompson go. His
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: second place at forty seven and thirty seven. Overall, they're
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: three games back of the first place Brave. So a
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: completely different situation there is this. Now would you say
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: front offices vindicated here in this move?
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: So this is the outcome you're hoping for when you
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: have that gut wrenching decision when you change out your manager,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: you're hopefully does actually have a material impact for your team.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Now observations here chet is keep in mind Rob Thompson
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: got his job because he replaced then beleaguered Joe Girardi
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: mid season, and as you pointed out, then the team
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: spiked then as well and went to the playoffs. So
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: I think the key for the Phillies is every three
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: to four years is just fire.
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: You need change of voice.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: They bring somebody back in, you're gonna boomerang right back
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: into first place. I think this team now is one
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: of the most scary teams in the National League. Now,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: keep in mind, one thing that did also happen and
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: coincide with Don Manningley coming back, was soon thereafter Zach
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: Wheeler came back, and Zach Wheeler has been one of
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: the best pitchers in the National League ever since coming
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: back and being healthy.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Coincidence probably not you get one of your your staff
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: aces bag. Zach Wheeler's probably an ace on a lot
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: of staffs, maybe not on Philly's staff all the time. However,
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: I do think that that is one injection that they got,
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: But that's a huge swing from nine to nineteen to
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: thirty eight and eighteen. Do you think now we'll look
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: at the Mets going forward. All right, So they're pretty
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: much left for dead. They're fifteen games back of a
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: Braves team that is on a heater right now. I
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: don't think anybody's slowing them down anytime soon. They've spent
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: a ridiculous amount of money. I look at these, these
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: payrolls are for these teams to have a bad month
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: even is almost unacceptable, especially to a fan base watching this.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: You've got the Phillies who have about the fourth payroll,
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: Mets has second or first payroll, depending on when you
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: are calculating that. Red Sox have the sixth. But it's
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: kind of tricky because I think there's like you said,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: I think there's a lot on the injured list there,
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: so it takes them down to about the thirteenth payroll
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: if you're just looking at the forty man. Either way,
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: still way too much money to be toiling in last place.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: That they did sweep the Yankees this weekend, so good
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: for them, but that's you're not doing anything. There is
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: that is is this the type of thing where we
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: look at those payrolls and those managers have that much
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: pressure at the end of the day that they have
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: to perform at a top level or they're done one
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: month into the season. I mean that seems like a
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: short leash to me.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Well, and I think there's no mystery here. As you mentioned,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: it's the second, fourth, and sixth highest payrolls. This is
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: where the scrutiny lies. This is where the magnifying glass
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: is bearing down on you, and you have to perform
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: and check. You said it in the intro, and I
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: just want to address this. When a front office executive
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: ultimately arrives at the conclusion that they have to fire
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: the manager, this is a monumental decision. And to me,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: what it says, what I always felt was, if we're
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: ever going to let a manager go, then we're turning
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: this spotlight right squarely on ourselves because we're saying the
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: manager should have one more with the with the roster
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: we had given him. He's not doing that. The next
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: person who is accountable is us for the roster. And
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: so let's dive into the mets for a second. Here
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: as the third outcome. So if the red Sox kind
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: of saw that they continued to perform. Similarly, the Philly
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: saw a huge boost. And what the Mets did was
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: they stayed loyal to their guy. They stayed true to
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: him for a longer period of time. Sad to say,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: but the fan base was calling for Carlos Mendoz's head
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: a month ago. When the other two teams made their change.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: They stuck with their guy. It didn't pay off. Now
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: they're having to make a change and maybe, dare I say,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: a little bit too late, But when I look at
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: that roster, I think there was a lot of question
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: marks about this roster going into the offseason. David Stearns
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: has come over, He's one of the brightest minds in
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: the game, made wholesale changes to Carlos Mendoza's coaching staff.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: Almost nobody returned except for Carlos Mendoza. So there's a
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: lot of turmoil there. There's a lot of people getting
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: to know each other during the course of a season
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: in which they're expected to win. Secondarily, they changed their
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: entire leadership within their clubhouse. Out out the door go
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: Jeff McNeil, Brandon Nimo, Pete Alonso incomes Bobashett, Luis Robert Junior,
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Marcus Simmi, and Horey Polanco, Freddie Peralta, Devin Williams comes in,
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Edwin Diaz goes out. It's a lot of change. So
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: even on a good team, I think you could argue
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: that's a lot of change.
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: Factor in the fact a lot of those guys are struggling.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Bobash If you look at WRC plus, where one hundred
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: is league average, Bobaschett is in a ninety three, which
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: is to say, seven percent below league average. His career
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: average is one nineteen. Luis Robert, coming off back to
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: back injury plagued and down seasons in Chicago, continues to struggle.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: He's at a ninety two. Marcus Simeon, who last year
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: really had a tough year in Texas. He's thirty five
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: years old, maybe a little bit past his prime. He's
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: at a seventy three. Horray Polanco, coming off his career
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: best season, is sitting at a fifty two. These are
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: colossal downstrokes for these four guys. The Mets ranked fifth
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: in the National and the Major League.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: Sorry, all those guys had made your question marks though,
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: I mean even Boba Schett coming out as a he
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: was in the top third of the free agents right
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: but at the same time people were asking a lot
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: of questions based on his performance from previous seasons. Lewis
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Robert has been off the grid for I don't remember
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: the last time he was relevant. It might have been
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: two three seasons ago. Marcus Simeon, as you said, he's aging,
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: He's been getting up there. He had a poor season
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: last year. Horiy Polanco had a great season, and maybe
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: we're seeing the oh, well, a guy has a great
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: season and buys himself a year or two on a
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: deal somewhere because of that. I'm not I'm not saying
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: he's not trying to assemble, but some of these guys
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: come with huge question marks, and a couple of these
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: guys were like, maybe they'll pop back around, like the
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: Luis Robert and the Marcus Simeon signings. Seemed like wishful
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: thinking to me to a degree when you're assembling a roster. Look,
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: I'm not a Mets fan. I don't live with them
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: game to game. It seems a little unfair. Mendoza seems
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: to have been put up against quite a heavy task
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: there to try and keep this get this team on
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: the tracks after last season's collapse, and then he gets
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: this season and he only had two to three months
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: to work with it. He has zero continuance. We talked
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: about that last episode, how difficult it is when you
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: constantly have this rolling group of personnel coming in and out.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: Do you think that he was treated fairly in this
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: or do you think it doesn't matter and you got
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: to move on and find a way to win.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: I honestly look at this and I don't think this
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: was a championship caliber roster and if that was their expectation,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: yet not to be fair, I also don't think it
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: was the last place roster. No, it's certainly somewhere between.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: Because I think another complicated factor here is Bobashet's been
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: a career shortstop. They asked him to play third base.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Hory Plank has been a career second basement in a
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: short stop. They asked him to play first base. Is
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: there a coincidence that these guys are struggling in positions
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: that they didn't normally play. I also look at David CERTs.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: He took the chances two guys who had career years
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: in Boba Shet and Hori Planco, two guys who had
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: down years, and Luis Robert and Marcus Semion. He bought high,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: he bought low. None of the four guys is working
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: out right now. I'm not sure that's anyone's a cute
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: fault to be fair.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: Feels a little like throwing darts at a board. Folks.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: We're going to take a quick break here on rosters
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: and rings, but make sure you come back and join us.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: We've got Jeff skin Wade along with us to talk
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: basketball NBA and we have a zillion topist. We're gonna
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: throw at him around the draft, around the CBA, the
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: basketball CBA and all the happening is going on with
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: the trades, stick around, Welcome.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Back to rosters, to rings. We'll check over the last week.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: The NBA has given us a little bit of everything,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: the draft, trades, hirings, firings, and scandals. And we've got
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: the right guy to talk to us, an expert in
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: the NBA fueled. Jeff Skinweight is a longtime friend, one
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: of our first return guests back by popular demand, a
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: roller skate DJ, co proprietor of the Haymaker Network, co
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: host of the longtime sports and pop culture radio and
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: podcast ben and Skin and the sideline reporter for the
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Dallas Mavericks. Skin welcome back.
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: Hey, it's good to be back. Thank you for having
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: me man.
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: Skin.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: I'm glad we got a basketball guy in here because
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: and I just tread water on this topic typically.
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: Oh come on, come on, I know you do better
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: than that.
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: Hey.
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: Bye.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: By the way, on podcast history, I think this is
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: the first time that we're ever going to say the
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: words Jeff Skinway meet Chet, Skin and Chet on the
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: same podcast, glorious.
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: And in chat. It sounds kind of like a show.
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: We'll see.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe we'll do something around roller skating. I don't
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: know as a podcast space for that somewhere. So I
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: want to kick you off with something here, Skin, because
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: I'm a fad and I over the past week we
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: kind of witnessed the draft the other night together with
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: a couple friends, and we're not I'm not it.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: I am not an.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: MBA fads above me on his fandom of the NBA.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: I have a family member who plays in the NBA,
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: so I've recently taken some interest. I've gone from being
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: the casual fan to the interested fan. You know, I
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: followed the Bad Boys the Pistons back in the day
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: when I was a kid.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: I was from Detroit.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: Lost a lot of interest when they were no longer
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: the bad Boys, and now I'm kind of coming back
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: into the fold. We're watching the Draft the other night.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: I know a lot of different things have happened with
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: the NBA CBA over the last couple of years. You know,
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: I understand the Baseball CBA quite well, but I do
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: not understand the NBA CBA. I'm hearing terms like aprons
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: and trade exceptions and can you treat me like I'm
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: a ten year old and you're trying to explain this
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: to me, How would you do that?
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: Well, I would pass on doing that because it's too
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: heady for ten year olds. It's too heady for me.
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: You know, it used to be I felt like I
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: had a really, really good command of that, but you know,
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: they redo it every three and four years, and it
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: kept evolving, and I've honestly had a hard time keeping up.
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: But they do have these aprons, and I think, just
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: to put it into most basic terms, it used to
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: be punitive to be above the salary cap, right, It
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: was never really hard cap but it was just it
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: was punitive, and then there was tax implications for the teams,
• 15:23
  Speaker 4: and then they started making it more difficult to maneuver
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: just function as a team once you got really high
• 15:31
  Speaker 4: up there. And now they have a thing called a
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: repeater tax, and so if you have it a certain
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: number of years, things that used to always be a
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: given to a team, no matter how much they spent,
• 15:41
  Speaker 4: where they had this mid level exception, which now the
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: mid level exception I believe was around fifteen million or so.
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: It used to you know, used to be as low
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: as five right. It just kept going up as the
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: bargaining as the money got bigger and bigger. But they
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: started taking away exceptions away from teams that were above
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: the second apron, things that teams used to have, and
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: then when they were repeating over that level a couple
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: of times, it became even more putative.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: So the apron's kind of like a penalization. It's like
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: a layer of penalization basically, Yeah, because we spend over
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: a certain amount, you get penalized X. Right, you can
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: get up to the second level, you're gonna get penalized
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: a little more. Yeah, But there are exceptions to these aprons.
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and keep in mind they had to make it
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: difficult for teams to maneuver, because what are you going
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: to penalize ballmer Sure, Oh you know, it's kind of
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: like what a lot of baseball people worried about so
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: much with Yankees and Dodgers and such. It's like, if
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: it's just financial, you know, meg tech bro don't care.
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: And Cuban used to be looked at as the guy
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: who didn't care, and then suddenly he was a poor
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: NBA owner, which probably had a lot to do with
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: why he sold out to samscorp.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Right, so this sounds a little more like baseball penalization
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: for getting to a certain point. We're not talking about
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: hard caps here.
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: Right, it's a little bit of all of that. It's
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: not only the financial penalty, but just the ability to
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: make basic maneuverings to keep your team together. So you know,
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: if you're following the Oklahoma City Thunder, for example, I mean,
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: I'm sure you're at least aware that they built up
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: this stockpile of draft assets as well as young talent,
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: and then you have to start paying that talent. So
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: someone like Oklahoma City, not only do they have to
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: maneuver in a way that makes sense for their market size.
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: But you don't want to be in a position where
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: you can't capitalize on eighth and ninth guys that will
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: probably have some sort of an impact on winning, not
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: like what you build your team around. But you know,
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: I don't know what you consider an Alex Caruso, for example,
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: but I don't think the Thunder win championships without him.
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: I don't think the Knicks win a championship without Josh Hart.
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: Now that's not where you start building your team. But
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: those guys really really.
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: Matter something bigger than a role player, but not a superstar.
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: Right, So that's what a lot of the penalties that
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: come in really hinder your ability to keep those kinds
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: of guys as well. So they got to be really
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: shrewd about the way that they maneuver, and a lot
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: of what Oklahoma City did and we'll continue to do
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: as we head into free agency Tuesday Night will be
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: based on long term, not being over the second apron,
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: not being a repeater penalty payer.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: And so you want to stay out of that zone
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: where you've got the superstar eating up a bunch of
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: camp space. But then you're left with a bunch of
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: kind of role players are below to support them, and
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: then they don't have the support right.
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: And it's interesting too when you look at the Thunder
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: and the Spurs because both of those teams still have
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: guys making you know that are younger players that are
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: just now starting to enter the big deal. And now
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: all the conversation in Oklahoma City is going to focus
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: on the future of Chet because he quote unquote no
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: showed in the finals and he's just now starting his
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: mega deal and you have a gonna have a mega
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: deal with Jayaln Williams and already have a mega deal
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: with Shay And then that's why you saw Isaiah Hartenstein
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: just took a little bit less money to stay there,
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: like he's making three millillion dollars less next year, but
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: that has a direct impact on them being able to
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: stay below that sake in Apron for example. And now
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: there's going to be a lot of focus on lou
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: Dort over the next few days as he there's a
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: there's an option with him as well.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: Very good, Well, that's a good explanation. I got a
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: better idea now then, okay, good, you know.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: It's it's it's amazing because like when you look at
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Major League Baseball's at an impass right now where we're
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: going to have a collective bargain agreement. They're trying to
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: affect more parody the NBA. While these things aren't perfect,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: they've had eight different champions in the last eight years.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: And it's part of the reason is what you're talking about,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: their skin where it's tougher to maintain and retain these
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: players through their earning cycles, and so you have to
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: make tough decisions. And it is those extra players, those
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: guys who are your fifth starter or your first guy
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: off the bench, that I do think helps win championships.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: And segueing a little bit here, producer Jason would be
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: remiss if we didn't ask you a little bit about
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: his hometown team, the Milwaukee Bucks. Oh no kind of
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: hit the hit hit the hit, This wall right with
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: young where they tried as desperately as they could to
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: keep this window open. They signed Damian Lillard, then they
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: stretched Damian Lillard, then they acquired Miles Turner and Kyle Kuzmo.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: But they've ultimately come to the conclusion that as currently constituted,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: they can't win anymore. What would you say, as we
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: look at Hall of Famer pat Riley, future Hall of
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Famer probably Eric Spolstra acquiring Jannis right now, what do
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: you make of this trade and how does this change
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: the landscape of the Eastern Conference?
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: Well, I think it changes it pretty dramatically because if
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: you're in the Eastern Conference, you quote unquote go for
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: it without any disrespect at all to the New York Knicks.
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: I think it's the greatest run any team has had
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: since the Mavericks in twenty eleven, where nobody was picking
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: them to win the finals, and we all know what
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: Dirk did. It was incredible. But I do think that
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: the East is still open in a lot of ways
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: where a team can make one or two moves and
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: be in the mix. Now, the Heat have a lot
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: to do. They really need shooting and playmaking, and I
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: don't know that they're they're going to get there, but
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: I think think, you know, laying out the Buck situation
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: to me is very interesting about the future of the
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: NBA right now, because that's the thing where people were
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: looking at the Spurs and the Thunder and they were going, oh,
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: it's over for the next decade. No, it is not.
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: Things change so fast and a great example of that
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: is the lottery reform. I mean, I'm really impressed with
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: what the Bucks got, considering nobody wanted to trade first
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: round picks after a lottery reform, at least not for
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: the next three years. And then you get a little
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: more hesitant because you don't even know. Okay, so what
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: is the next step of this lottery reform. They've agreed
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: to change it for three years, and then we're doing
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: it again. I remember you and you and JD always
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: talking about the now plan and the five year plan,
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: and uh, you know, that's very I always thought that
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: that worked in baseball, and I thought that that worked
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: in basketball. Now I'm not so sure it works in
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: basketball anymore.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: So it's basically just a now plan.
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: Right, right, and or you know, three years at the most, right,
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think you know, that's always been the
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: way it is in the NFL because of this certainty
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: of injury and those kinds of things. The only reason
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: you ever take in the NFL is to get a quarterback.
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: In my opinion, ever, for any reason, it does not
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: make sense to do it for any other reason. But
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: you know, the Bucks basically waited one year too long
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: to trade Giannis. They should have traded him last summer,
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: and I loved the dude. He's from my ares from
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: the DFW Miles Turner as a wonderful human. That was
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: a terrible move by the Milwaukee Bucks. I mean, in
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: no way can you justify waving and stretching that much
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: money to acquire the eleventh best center to what what
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: was that? So that was?
• 22:38
  Speaker 5: Now?
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: I will say this, I thought they had about as
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: good a draft as you can have for having the
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: tenth and the thirteenth pick. I personally love Bury's and
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: I'm a little skeptical of they meant. But I think
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: you take him at thirteen, you know, I think I'm
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: nervous taking him at five. Keep in mind, you know,
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: with this class it was four guys. He was like
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: the fifth guy in the class. He would coming out
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: of high school, he was right there with those guys.
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: It almost reminds me of different reasons, but a little
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: bit like if you guys remember Michael Porter Junior. The
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: Nuggets got him towards the very end of the lottery
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: and coming out of high school, some people thought he
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: was better than all those guys in that class. Right
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: then he had the back issues. So that's a great
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: place for me to roll the die on a player
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: like that. So I will say that to your producer.
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: I think you guys had a great draft considering where
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: you guys were. But the deal with the honest, you
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: do it the summer before they get infinitely more, infinitely more.
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: And that's the other thing too, where it's really difficult.
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's hard trading a player like Giannis, who
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: gave you is the greatest player in the history of
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: your franchise. And I'm saying that for a franchise at
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: Oscar Robertson and Kreem Abdul Jabbar, but he's the greatest
• 23:49
  Speaker 4: player in the history of their franchise. He gave them
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: so much, but he was sending all these mixed signals,
• 23:55
  Speaker 4: and that's where it's so hard for the health of
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: their team. They should have traded him the summer before.
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: But he's beloved and he's sending you mixed signals, and
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: it's hard with the agent and in the NBA, more
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: than any sport, if you have one guy that's of
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: that caliber, it changes the calculus of everything for you.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: So that I can think of a few times in
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: the MLB where we've had a guy go out there
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: on the trade deadline, you know, go out for trade
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: a little late, like you look at a team and
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: so they should have traded him a season ago. I'm
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: a Tigers fan, Skin, so I'm looking at Terrek Scoogle
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: right now and wondering what would have happened if we
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: got rid of him about a year ago. Would have
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: made that big a difference for our postseason run, et cetera.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: And it probably would have got a heck of a
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: lot more for him.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: Now. Yeah, so I get that, I understand it.
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: But think about what this. So I'm sitting here thinking
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: about you know, the Halo's had the two best players
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: in baseball and they were mediocre. It's just it's so
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: you basketball is so unique in that regard compared now.
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: I'm not it's completely not analogous, but the point being one,
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: if you had two of the best player the world,
• 25:00
  Speaker 4: maybe the two best players in the world in basketball,
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: you're in the conference finals every year. Man, as long
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: as you have health and ain't like that in some
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: of the other sports.
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: No, and Skin, it harkens back like it sounds logical,
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: It sounds relatively easy, to make those trades when you
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: should make those trades. I've said this a number of
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: times on the show. John Hart, who you know well,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: told me and JD when we started the jobs, don't
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: let a star set on you. But it's so tough
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: to do because they're such amazing fan appeal. The owners
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: tend to love these guys as well. They should. He's
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: the best player in franchise history. So the discipline to
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: always do the right thing rather than do the popular thing.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: GM's aspire to do that, but it is really tough
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: when you're making those ultimate decisions. It's one thing when
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: the fans really love those guys, when the owner also
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: loves that guy, sometimes it's really tough to make those
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: decisions at the last. And now we're going to see
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: what they could do because as you said, they have
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: two exceptional players in vam Adebayo and be honest, but
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: there's a little duplication of roles that are who's getting
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: the guy the ball, who's shooting from the outside. It's
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: gonna it's gonna be fascinating to see what else the
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Miami Heat too, because they've been as you were talking about,
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: the Jason Harts of the world, the lou Dort's of
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: the world. This is a franchise that has been exceptionally
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: good at getting those types of role players they needed
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: to get the extra start. They just landed the start,
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: and they also come through with the role players.
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: Well, you know, and the other thing you bringing that up,
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: And so Maverick fans hate the Heat and always have
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: hate the Heat and always will hate the Heat. I
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: have so much admiration for their culture and what they've
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: built and how they go about doing things. Now, one
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: you know, for guys our age pat Riley has been
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: always there, always this huge presence in the sports world, right,
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: and just the embodiment of winning. Spolster came out of
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: the video room and you talk about spotting talent, knowing
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: that that guy can do it. And I think I'm
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: pretty sure he's the longest tenured coach in the NBA.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: Right, I'm pretty sure he is reading today.
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I thought, if I remember correctly, he got to
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: the Heat the same year Rick Carlisle got to the Mavericks.
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: I think that was right. But anyways, I digress. But
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: he's a part of the culture and that starts at
• 27:11
  Speaker 4: the top, and you can have changes in your culture,
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: but they have to be specific reasons why you do
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: those things. Right, you have your foundations that you believe in,
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: and you hold true to those things, and as the
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: world changes, you might change some of those pieces. But
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: what you believe in is what you believe in. The
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: Heat have that, and you see it with their player development.
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: And we spend so much time talking about drafting the
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: right guy, do you develop that guy that's just as
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: important as the intangible or I'm sorry, the measurables and
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: the skill and all those things, and the Heat have
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: consistently developed guys. There was a great article I think
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: Zach Low wrote it. I mean it might've been pre pandemic,
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: but talking about how the Heat we're getting these guys
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: out of. Then it was called the D League, and
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: those guys referred to the D League as the jungle,
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: as if there was this wild thing that once you escaped,
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: you didn't want to have to go back to it.
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: This is and so talking about getting the right guys
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: out of that and then develop them, developing them in
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: a way to where they didn't they didn't go back
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: to what those players called the jungle, and that that
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: is part of it. Like the Thunder and the Spurs.
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: They've done an amazing job compiling picks and drafting and
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: their scouting is incredible. Look at their player development. You
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: guys remember, I mean I barely knew who lou Dort
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: was was when he remember Shay and Chris Paul and
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: those guys had a little run the year that Chris
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: Paul was in the Thunder and lou Dort playing a
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: huge role for the Thunder. Fine, you know, playing minutes
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: at the end of games in the playoffs and I'm going,
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: lou Dort, what is happening here? But they saw that
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: and they developed that and he's a crucial part of
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: now several years later when they get the other pieces.
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: That's part of it. Hit The development is essential, right,
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: So you have to have the right development coaches, the
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: right system developing them in the right areas. And I'm
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: speaking more specifically to basketball because I know it better
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: than other sports. But the Heat have that, so I
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: think there will be some guys that'll step up into
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: some roles there. But it's the NBA and you do
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: nude shooting and passing and they don't have enough of
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: it right now. They have one year to make Giannis
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: want to be there long term, but they have the
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: beach and they have pat Riley, and pat Riley can
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: spit that mojo and make you think you should be there.
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: So having you know, just you know, set one hundred
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: and million things all at once, I think it was
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: the best move for both teams when you look at
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: the context of the conference.
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: I'm going to move you about six and a half
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: hours west. Okay your skin, Okay, I can do it.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: So you're going to talk about our Timberwolves here in
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: Minnesota for a second, because we got a lot of
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: curious people right now. So we had a little surprise
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: deal happened this past week. Tim Connolly looks like he's
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: pushing all the chips in. I don't think. I mean,
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: we don't have any draft assets left, so it's gotta
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: happen now. I kind of feel like maybe they did
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: this to keep ant around for a little while. We
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: go out, we grab lamellow Ball in that trade, we
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: give up a fan favorite in nos Reed. I mean
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: nas Reed is like a cult fan favorite in this town.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: What does this mean for the Tea Wolves did it?
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: Are they better going into next season or are we
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: gonna need to wait one more season to see the
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: pinnacle here.
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: Man, it's so interesting and crazy. So Tim Connolly is
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: the same guy responsible for trading all those assets for
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: Rudy Gobert and everyone going, what are you doing? It's
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: small ball. You can't win with Gobt and Towns. And remember,
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: you know nos Reed. I don't think nos Reed had
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: signed his second deal yet. I'm trying to remember. Maybe
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: he was just about to. I can't recall. By the way,
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: nos Reed a great example of player development coming out.
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: Nobody saw him as a three point gunner, right, and
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: then once people start running him off the three point line,
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: he could use to dribble like that's player development. That's
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: exactly what I'm talking about.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: And he's one of those guys that's not the role
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: he's a little better than a role player. Yes for them, Yeah,
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: I mean that's that's one of those guys you're saying
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: is so essential to a team.
• 31:11
  Speaker 4: And that's really uh And if you you know, kind
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: of you're watching him do up, you're going, wait, they're
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: they're they're gonna keep that guy and these other guys
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: that makes sense. They made all the sense in the world.
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: They knew exactly what they had. Now Ultimately they ended
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: up moving Karl Anthony Towns and now here they are
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: after Tim connolly takes this big wild cut and puts
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: this big team together. Now here they are and they're
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: way zigging back the other way, and they're gonna have
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: this crazy offensive juggernaut in their back court. And obviously
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: Anthony Edwards is on board with this or they would
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: have never done it. And yeah, and they're feeling pressure
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: right because he's been there for a while now. Our
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: buddy Tim McMahon wrote this whole book about Luka Doncic
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: and the pressure the Dallas Mavericks front office was feeling,
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: and right as he was publishing it, boy, that thing
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: with the other way fast. But the point is is
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: you're on the clock. If you have a generational talent,
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: you're on the clock. And I think what we see
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: is again it's a context move. San Antonio and Oklahoma
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: City ain't going anywhere, and the thunder or in the
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: Timberwolves as they were, they weren't gonna match up with that,
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: so they needed to wildly zig while others were zagging.
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: And I think putting ball in the back court with
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: an ant is that it'll be interesting to see. I mean,
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: I think offensively they'll be fine.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: And just just a minute ago you said this is
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: a win, now do it? Like you know, everything's for
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: the now. There's no long term plan in the NBA really,
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: So we're sitting here, what does this do to their growth?
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: Trading with all the picks? Does it even matter at
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: this point? Can they get them back somehow? And two
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: years if this thing falls apart, what does that look
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: like for the future development?
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah? I think you bring up a good point if
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: for whatever reason this blows up in their face. And
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: you know when when stars move teams, you're involved, right
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: and you get assets back. Uh. And I think also again,
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: you know I kind of reference that three year window. Well,
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: this will if ant's going some kind in it right,
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: say it again.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, we're kind of in it now, right, like
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: this is gonna be it for the next two and so.
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: I think it's a wild swing, but I think it's calculated.
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: I don't think it's some some shoot from the hip stuff.
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: I think they're looking at it as when we get
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: to that point, Anthony Edwards will need the Timberwolves to
• 33:25
  Speaker 4: go somewhere else. If this doesn't work and he doesn't
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: like it, and then you do try to recapture those assets.
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: Good, good deal.
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: Skin.
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: I'll tell you what.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: We're gonna break here for a second. Give everybody a
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: couple of minutes. We're gonna come back and give you
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: a chance to maybe talk about your mavericks a little.
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: We love that.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Say yes, welcome back to roster's rings. We've got Jeff
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: skin Wade breaking down the NBA for us. Skin. One
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: of the things I look at when I look at
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: the timber Wolves is there's a little bit of a
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: likeness between Tim Conley and Dave Dombrowski. Both were notorious
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: for kind of trading future assets, prospects, picks in the
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: name of trying to win. Now, Dave Dombrowski is going
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: to waltz into the Hall of Fame having done this.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: He also sometimes decimates organizations on route to playing in
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: the playoffs. Well, Tim Conley has taken swing after swing
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: after swing with the Timberwolves, and the crazy thing to
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: me is they felt the urgency. Now in twenty twenty
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: four and twenty twenty five, they went to the conference
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: championship and maybe even overachieved a little bit. I think
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: for people who lived in Minnesota this year, the question was,
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: if Devincenzo and Ant didn't get hurt, could they have
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: actually gone toe to toe with the Spurs this year.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Will never know because they were certainly infirmed, and unfortunately
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: s Devincenzo was knocked out. But here we are. They're
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: making another big move, like we were talking about with
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: the Heat. The Heat are going to need some playmakers
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: to get the ball and the ball to the big
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: boys and to shoot. It seems like the exact opposite
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: is true about the Timberwolves. They're going to need some
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: guys who can rim protect and clean up the boards
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: to go with Ruby Gobert to help the shooters on
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: the outside. But we want to turn to your hometown team,
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: your true love, and that is we want to talk
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: to you a little bit about the seat change here,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: but the leadership of that franchise, how much it's changed.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: Nico Harrison and Jason kidd Out, massaioh Jari, Mike Schmiz
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: and Dustin may Dusty may In, and I just want
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: to ask you a little bit about Dusty May so
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: to the extent we can understand a little bit better
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: about who he is the type of leadership he'll have.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: But just as a little bit of background. Before getting
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: his first head coaching job at Florida Atlantic University in
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, May had staff roles at USC Indiana, Eastern
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: Michigan University, Murray State, UAB, Louisiana Tech, and University of Florida.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: The fact that he worked at seven universities isn't even
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: the most noteworthy thing he does in his career, and
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: that is He's now the head coach of the Dallas
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: Mavericks two plus seasons removed from head coaching at Florida Atlantic,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: which before he took them to the Final four, no
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: one knew was actually in Boca Raton, Florida. Now we
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: all know that. You could you share with the listeners,
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: what is the leadership group now with Massaiah Jari my
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: Mavericks fans in for in this new newfound leadership group
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: with the Mavericks.
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: Well, I have a couple of comments on it, but
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: first I want to ask you guys, I hope this
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: isn't a dumb question in your opinion. I think it's interesting.
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: What is a more impressive feat winning a national championship
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: or taking Florida Atlantic to a Final four. I think
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: it's a valid question that guy did both within what
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: is that a three year span.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go with the ladder on that, Yeah,
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: depending on where it's all coming.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I mean, I think what he did
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: with Florida Atlantic is absolutely remarkable in today's day and
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: age of college sport.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: I don't even know who Florida Atlantic was fifteen years ago.
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: Their football team kind of put him on the map
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: to a degree, if you want to call it that.
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: But yeah, that's that's interesting.
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: I think there's some people that thought it was the
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: name of a conference and not an actual school, but.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: That actually sounds like the name of a conference or
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: maybe a minor league division of something. Yeah.
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: But I think it's really exciting getting him in here,
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: and I think that people are trying to, you know,
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: make parallels. They look at okay college coaches, like, if
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: you want to call the Caliperi thing, Brad Stevens is interesting.
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: But Brad Stevens came into the league at thirty seven,
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: you know, And so I almost look at that as
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: kind of like when JD and Thad were baby boys
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: and they were like suddenly front office gurus, you know.
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: So Brad, see, those.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: Were the days, Those were the days.
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: Those were the days. Man, God, that was my favorite time.
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: But but but and so you know, Dusty May is
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: a forty nine year old guy and he's he had
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: to work his way up. Another one of my favorite
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: little nuggets about you know, we talk about culture and
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: fitting in. I love the fact he's got three and
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: one of his sons is a video coordinator for the Heat.
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: Now to me, that again goes back. I think it
• 38:08
  Speaker 4: says a lot about I say, it's a lot about
• 38:09
  Speaker 4: his son. You want to give credit to the person,
• 38:12
  Speaker 4: but who's the basketball dad that raised that son? And
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: I don't think I think the Heat valued having someone
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: in their organization that was that guy's son. That's not
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: to discredit the Sun, but you guys get where I'm going.
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: I think that that speaks volumes to who they brought
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: in here. And then also their general manager, Mike Schmidz
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: is a scouting grinder. He turned himself into a basketball commodity.
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: I think that's really special, and I speak, I think
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: that speaks to dedication to the sport. Obviously, you know,
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: having the goods and the knowledge and the vision but
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: also as they're both those guys are out there grinding
• 38:49
  Speaker 4: at different age levels, but they're out there grinding, they
• 38:52
  Speaker 4: cross paths and they start networking with one another. And
• 38:55
  Speaker 4: so having that element to that element of the coach
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: and the general manager under the umbrella of messiou Jerry,
• 39:04
  Speaker 4: who he's an executive, he's a sports executive. I think
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: you know fans, okay, a general manager. That's what I
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: do with my fantasy football team. That guy sits in
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: there and that guy makes the moves. And then we
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: see positions where there's a head of you know, a
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: president of baseball operations at a GM, right or you
• 39:20
  Speaker 4: have that in basketball. You know, the executives have to
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: operate with the other executives and do a lot of
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: that stuff. And then oftentimes your quote unquote GM, if
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: that's the way your structure is, it is all about
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: just the player development and the drafting and the salary
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: maneuverability and all that kind of stuff. So what the
• 39:36
  Speaker 4: Mavericks have is they have a coach who is red
• 39:40
  Speaker 4: hot right now, number one with a bullet for what
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: he did at the college game, and now he's taking
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: I think it's different now the college coach coming to
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: the pro because of how NIL changed college basketball, and
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: it really is truly.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: Just about to say, you think he can do what
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: he did with Michigan last night if NIL doesn't exist.
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: No, I mean that's a two year turnaround, right, And
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: so I think that I just like I look at
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: who's coaching the thunder Man. That guy is so impressive.
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: We had a moment where sometimes you're calling the games,
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: you get to be right there at mid court. And
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: there was a game that the Mavericks were playing the
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: thunder and I watched that coach explain to the refs
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: why they were wrong because it happened five feet in
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: front of me. Take your headset off. He basically told
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: that refs where they were wrong, how they had missed
• 40:33
  Speaker 4: the rule they confer and then it's Oklahoma City ball.
• 40:36
  Speaker 4: It was fricking awesome to watch. And if you watch
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: that guy, he's not former player dynamic, you know, walk
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: the sidelines. It's just a different era. It's about communication
• 40:47
  Speaker 4: with people, authenticity and knowledge. I think those are the
• 40:50
  Speaker 4: most important things, and I think Dusty may sort of
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: speaks to those characteristics. And so I'm excited about it now.
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: Now he's here. Now we got to see if it
• 40:58
  Speaker 4: actually works. But I love conceptually what he represents from
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: a basketball standpoint, and I'm excited about that. I'm excited
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: about his history with Schmid's and I do believe this.
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: They said this at the presser. They you know, it
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: wasn't Dusty May that made the Rez Johnson Junior pick.
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: It was the front office. But as they're scouting these
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: three potential late lottery picks, they're also scouting Dusty May.
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: And so the way that they did this, they went
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: into that position in the draft, and they had the
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: knowledge base that Dusty May had of everybody who wanted
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: his players where they wanted him. If you go look
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: back at all the mock drafts, most of the mock
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: drafts had Rez Johnson Junior going second or third of
• 41:43
  Speaker 4: those three guys. They knew the Thunder wanted him sitting
• 41:47
  Speaker 4: there at twelve because every Maverick fan is going, oh, ten,
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: you just trade back and get twelve and seventeen. Now
• 41:53
  Speaker 4: we got two assets. Move on down the day. You
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: don't do that if you know who the player is
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: that you want, you don't, as my dad would say,
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: fiddle fart around with that stuff. You go get the
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: guy that you wanted, and so I love the way
• 42:06
  Speaker 4: that they played that knowledge and I love the way
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: that it was the guy that the front office, even
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: before Dusty May got there wanted. Dusty May confirmed that
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: that was the guy for them, and then they realized
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: Dusty May might just be the guy for us. And
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: I love the way all of that.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: I had the idea of who they were going to
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: go out and get, and then they went out and
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: got the player to match them.
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's all very synergynistic centergy Is that a word
• 42:27
  Speaker 4: that makes up.
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: A wordy synergistics? That's a word.
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: I took synergistics in college and then it became a
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: culch church. So anyways, I like all that. And then
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: Messiu Jerry is a guy that has done it, and
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: so you bring that to the table. He's bringing up
• 42:45
  Speaker 4: these young guys underneath him. He knows how to do
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: all of this. He's done it for a championship team
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: and we're talking about Connolly earlier. Was there ever been
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: a bigger swing in the world than trading one of
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: the most important players in the history or France and
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: DeMar de Rosen for a guy on a one year
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: deal and you get that guy and you win the championship.
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: That's a big cut, man, That's one of the biggest
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: cuts in the history of the last twenty five years
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: of sports. I mean, that was big and bold and
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: it worked out. So there's a lot of things to
• 43:18
  Speaker 4: be excited about as a Maverick fan after feeling like
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: you've had your teeth kicked in for the last sixteen
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: or seventeen months.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: So I feel like we got to keep your energy
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: up and keep talking about the Mavericks here.
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: What else do we have?
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: Well it skin, I think, first of all, very sophisticated
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: council from your father.
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right, very much.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, yeah, those were you should you should etch
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: those on a pillow someday. I don't know he's I
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: don't know if you follow the contracts of head coaches.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: But another thing that I found fascinating about Dusty May
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: juxtapose against Mike and Noory, is that we don't know
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: yet the full contract details that Dusty May signed with Mavericks,
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: but we have heard that his buyout from Michigan alone
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: is somewhere which five and seven and a half million.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: We know that he was making between four point six
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: and five point six million in his contract with Michigan,
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: and he's supposed to be getting a significant race. Meanwhile,
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: on the other side of the Ledger Micah Nora Nori,
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: who's been an assistant coach for a long time, most
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: recently with the Timberwolves, has interviewed for a lot of
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: these jobs, gets hired by the Portland Trailblazers to what
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: is being rumored is a one year deal somewhere between
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: one and one and a half million dollars. And I
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: know this has created a lot of outrage amongst other
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: head coaches in the NBA, like what do you make
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: of this disparity?
• 44:33
  Speaker 4: Well, so my thought on the it's so interesting too.
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: You know. Tom Dundan's Dallas guy, the new owner of Portland.
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: In fact, me and Ben had him on our radio show,
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: I don't know, seven or eight years ago to talk
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: he was going to buy the franchise in that alternate
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: football league. I'm gonna give Johnny Manzel his second chance.
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: I don't know if you guys remember all that crazy story.
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: Dundon's the guy that built up Top Golf for example,
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: and of course he just you know, raised the state
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: Ley Cubb is the owner in Carolina, right, So he's
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: an interesting guy. And what's happening in portland's making a
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: lot of news. I don't know if you guys remember
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: the story of they didn't pay to have you know,
• 45:11
  Speaker 4: their two way guys go in the play in but
• 45:14
  Speaker 4: thedn't they do a play in tournament game and they
• 45:16
  Speaker 4: made a big deal out of it. Look at these
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: cheap skates and all this stuff. So that's a complicated
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: thing because clearly Mike Nory felt like he was running
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: out of shots. Maybe otherwise, you know, because he's a
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: name that's been considered for all these jobs, including the
• 45:34
  Speaker 4: Mavericks job, and he just saw the Mavericks go with
• 45:38
  Speaker 4: a different guy, right, They went with a college guy,
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: and so maybe he's white knuckling it a little bit,
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: feeling like, man, I never got my shot. You know
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: another guy who just went through that and finally got
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: a shot in a different sports. See, we made it
• 45:51
  Speaker 4: this far. And I hadn't brought up the Cowboys till now,
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: but Brian Schottenheimer was when was he he wasn't going
• 45:57
  Speaker 4: to get his shot? And if he's not, but really
• 46:01
  Speaker 4: in the building when the Cowboys part ways, with their coach.
• 46:06
  Speaker 4: He was kind of the fake offensive coordinator, right he was.
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: I mean, I'm not taking anything away, but it's clear
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: the head coach was quote unquote calling the plays. And
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: so during that process, the Cowboys are looking around, going, man,
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: I think we got the guy here in the room.
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: He's not really up for any other jobs. He had
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: been up for a lot of other jobs. In fact,
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: he had turned some jobs down. And so you have
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: your moment where you're hot, and in that moment goes
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: away and there's new darlings, and so I don't I
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: don't know. I've never had a conversation with Mike Canori, right,
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: I'm projecting thoughts here, but he may have felt like
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: this was his last dance, and so he's probably looking
• 46:42
  Speaker 4: at it going, you know what, if they keep me
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: for one year, that's no different from a lot of
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: assistant coaches turnover from time to time. Right, It's very
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: rare unless you're Jeff Van Gundy that you had some
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: great head coaching job or assistant coaching job that pays
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: you well for four or five years. So I think
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: that he go ahead him.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: So, yes, can I just I well, one thing, I
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: think both of these things can be true, which is
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: perhaps Mike and Norri got to a point where he
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: was so consumed with the desire to be a head
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: coach he was going to take whatever they gave him.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: And also I think the owner and the front office
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: should treat him fairly, you know. I think we just
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: saw this in Anaheim where they hire Kurtsuzuki to a
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: one year contract. I just would look at it and say,
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: if you're getting to a point where you feel like
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: you have I've always felt like a measure of a
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: person is how you handle leverage. And they knew MIKEA
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: and Nori wanted this job. But if they're really fishing
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: off a pier of who is the best coach we
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: can get, who will accept a contract at one to
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: one and a half million, which is also known as
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: like one third to one quarter of what the average
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: first year coach is getting paid, and oh, by the way,
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: for only one year versus the average first guys getting
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: paid for four to five years. I think that's a
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: little bit of a judgment call and a character question
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: mark for me about how that franchise is being run.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: Not to say they can't succeed, but I'm interested to
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: follow the Portland Trailblazers. It seems as if they've got
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: a ton of talent, but that's not the way championship
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: organizations tend to be run.
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: No, I think that's a great point that and I'm
• 48:14
  Speaker 4: glad you brought that up because I'm not here caping
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: for Tom Dundon. I want to make sure you guys
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: understand that I'm but I love the way he said
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: that and what it reminded me of, and correct me
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: if I'm wrong. I don't think Wash was a hot
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: commodity when you guys hired him, But I always felt,
• 48:31
  Speaker 4: and I could be wrong on that, I felt like
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: that came kind of out of the blue, but I
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: always felt like you guys treated him incredibly fairly and
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: didn't like leverage him, so to speak. That was at
• 48:40
  Speaker 4: least my memory of all that. I think that that's
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: a really great point that you're bringing out.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: And Jeff, you know Wash so well. First of all,
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: he would think he was a very hot commodity, and
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: I think by that he met his looks. But you know, Jeff,
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know if we ever shared this with you.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: The only thing he asked for in his contract negotiation
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: was first of all, I do he felt we treated
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: him fairly, but he said, the only thing I'd like
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: is to have a stipend to be able to take
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: my staff out to dinner on the road when we
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: go on road trips. Incredible, that's the only thing you
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: asked for. Yeah, and that speaks to like the character
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: of the man. Hopefully that also insinuates that we had
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: treated him fairly with the offer we made him and
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: we said hell yes to that, and that just was
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: the on ramp to what a wonderful relationship and it
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: was perfectly reflective of who the person was.
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: It's amazing. You know, when you have a guy in
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: your clubhouse on the player side like Michael Young, it
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: gives you a leg up. But then when you add
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: the element of how guys react and field to run Washington.
• 49:35
  Speaker 4: You know, we throw this word around culture and what
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: it means, and it can take on a lot of
• 49:39
  Speaker 4: different things, but that's the foundation to a spectacular culture.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: When it's those are the guys that quell the drama.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: They keep the drama out of the locker room, They
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: keep things kind of even keel, level headed, they keep
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: things moving. I'm gonna move you over to a more
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: dramatic topic. Okay, all right, So what's going on with
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: the Celtics? I again, basketball and the fight we've got
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: Jason Tatum goes to the postseason, kind of a rocky postseason.
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: Now we got Jalen Brown and it sounds like there's
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: a lot of back and forth going on there and
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: some misunderstanding over his value or what he deems himself
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: to be valued. At what's happening there with the Celtics.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: Do you think where do you think this thing lands?
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: That's I really have zero idea where this thing lands,
• 50:23
  Speaker 4: because I do think that you guys saw the whole
• 50:27
  Speaker 4: dust up where Bobby Marx said I had an analytics
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: guy tell me he's the best player on a team,
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: and I was like, cool, you need to get you
• 50:35
  Speaker 4: another analytics guy. That's just like, objectively, Jalen Brown agreed
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: with you.
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: I think Jalen Brown wants you.
• 50:44
  Speaker 4: It's objectively a stupid take. I'm sorry, come get me analytics, guys.
• 50:50
  Speaker 4: And by the way, I'm very pro analytics, just as
• 50:52
  Speaker 4: I'm pro intangible or whatever you want to call that
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: other world, the scouting world. And we've I've had this
• 50:58
  Speaker 4: discussion with that and jdmillion times they're not mutually exclusive.
• 51:03
  Speaker 4: You can you do the best teams utilize both, but
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: that that's a crazy take. Uh. And if my analytics
• 51:12
  Speaker 4: guy came in and told me that, I'd be like,
• 51:14
  Speaker 4: find the different set of numbers, Dude, the finals, MVP
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: is not the seventh best guy. And and also if
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: you look at what happened with the Celtics this year,
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: I thought it was extraordinary what Tatum did when he
• 51:28
  Speaker 4: came back, and I thought it was risky and weird.
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: I thought what Brown did leading up to that was
• 51:33
  Speaker 4: MVP worthy. I watched that team play, and as I
• 51:36
  Speaker 4: watched that team play and looked at the group of
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: guys on the floor, I was like, God, the Mavericks
• 51:41
  Speaker 4: need to build their team like what I'm watching right
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: now around Cooper flag. Uh, go get the go, get
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: the right like, okay, go get the right analytics. Guys
• 51:51
  Speaker 4: around the stud.
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: Go the right analytics. Right, Maybe you're not looking at
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: the right numbers.
• 51:57
  Speaker 4: And I also understand too that there's another comment to
• 52:00
  Speaker 4: be had about how much money he makes and some
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: of those things. And if you're sitting here saying that, well,
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: he's not as good as Jason Tatum. That's like a
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: splitting hairs of greatness thing. And I'm okay with if
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: you think Tatum is better than Brown, I have no
• 52:15
  Speaker 4: problem with that. But there's very few two way wings
• 52:19
  Speaker 4: better than Jalen Brown. Now, can he be inefficient at times? Yeah,
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: Kobe was super inefficient. He can play for me. So
• 52:26
  Speaker 4: I think there's just got to be some common sense
• 52:28
  Speaker 4: in the middle of that. Now. Having said that, I
• 52:31
  Speaker 4: believe in Brad Stevens. He has said that he's had
• 52:34
  Speaker 4: the conversations, the necessary conversations with Jalen Brown. Also, Jalen
• 52:38
  Speaker 4: Brown's a very unique person. And I don't know if
• 52:42
  Speaker 4: you guys remember, and I don't have the details. It's
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: been a long time. But because me and Ben new
• 52:46
  Speaker 4: Donnie Nelson so well for so long, there was this
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: PhD guy. I think he was from Stanford or maybe
• 52:52
  Speaker 4: he was from Harvard. I can't remember. One of them
• 52:54
  Speaker 4: smart schools. They had never let me in. And he
• 52:57
  Speaker 4: had this brain to brain characters characterization chart where if
• 53:03
  Speaker 4: you had a specific type of brain he believed in
• 53:06
  Speaker 4: That already sounds dangerous.
• 53:08
  Speaker 3: No, no, no, it's already sounds dangerous.
• 53:10
  Speaker 4: But It's true. Danny Ainge very much believed in this
• 53:12
  Speaker 4: and made moves based on this. And if I remember correctly,
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: not a lot of people had Jalen Brown going third.
• 53:18
  Speaker 4: I mean, he was a definitive lottery pick. But Danny
• 53:22
  Speaker 4: Ainge very much believed in this brain graft grid that this.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 53:26
  Speaker 4: There was an article hemera if his New York Times
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: are at the early stage of the Athletic, in which
• 53:30
  Speaker 4: they talked about this doctor and I forget his name,
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: but I just knew it anecdotally because Donnie had told
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: me and been about it so many times. Donnie was
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: on staff in Phoenix when Danny Ainge was there, and
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: Danny Ainge show's credit, let Donnie Nelson pull the trigger
• 53:43
  Speaker 4: on drafting a little white boy out of Santa Clair
• 53:46
  Speaker 4: I named Steve Nash. That was Donnie's pick. Donnie had
• 53:48
  Speaker 4: been with that guy since day one. Donnie's amazing scout
• 53:52
  Speaker 4: dirt was a pretty good pick. It was a pretty
• 53:55
  Speaker 4: damn good pick, Steve Nash. Dirk Luke he wanted the
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: Mavericks to draft Yannis and Cuban at thirteen and Cuban
• 54:06
  Speaker 4: he admitted it overrode him and said no, We're not
• 54:09
  Speaker 4: gonna do that. We're gonna trade down to get a
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: couple hundred thousand dollars a cap space to not have
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: a full offer to make for Dwight Howard, who we
• 54:15
  Speaker 4: don't really want. Whatever. That's alternate that's alternate history. But
• 54:18
  Speaker 4: my point is Donnie wouldn't know analytics if it smacked
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: him in the face. But he knows how to find
• 54:24
  Speaker 4: great guys. So I would always love having a Donnie
• 54:26
  Speaker 4: and a badass analytics guy and put that together, and
• 54:29
  Speaker 4: then that's where you have your dream team.
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: Hey, Jason, there's one reason to love Cuban. He kept
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: honis the bucks for you. Congratulations, just for you.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: Congrats Skin, from fiddles to farts to brand algorithms, you
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: nailed everything and inside of one segment, so much so
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: that we're gonna ask you to stick around for our
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: listener questions. On the other side of this break back
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: with listener questions with producer Jason, and Skin has been
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: generous with his time. He's sticking around because I have
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: a feeling he may be the guy who bails us
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: out and gives us a great answer for this question.
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: Let's do it.
• 55:12
  Speaker 5: Thank you, Dad, Skin, Thanks again. For coming on, man,
• 55:15
  Speaker 5: we always enjoy it. I was just looking back, you know,
• 55:20
  Speaker 5: at the times you've given us in the past, and
• 55:23
  Speaker 5: quite honestly, I think the last time we spoke like
• 55:26
  Speaker 5: it was full on dumpster fire in Dallas because Luca
• 55:30
  Speaker 5: had gone I don't think NKO was out quite yet,
• 55:33
  Speaker 5: and you were going off on the Micah Parsons thing.
• 55:37
  Speaker 5: And so my question today isn't really a listener questions
• 55:40
  Speaker 5: question from me, because I do really feel like you
• 55:44
  Speaker 5: are a great example of the voice of the DAT fan.
• 55:48
  Speaker 5: Just want to know as well, and that you know
• 55:51
  Speaker 5: chat weigh in a little bit as well. But time
• 55:53
  Speaker 5: always heals, things change and unbelievable things happen in sports.
• 55:58
  Speaker 5: Skin Where are we today in Dallas, and let's talk
• 56:00
  Speaker 5: about how kind of time heals all wounds and how
• 56:03
  Speaker 5: the community's feeling these days.
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: I think the community is excited, and I think the
• 56:10
  Speaker 4: main reason that they're excited is the getting Calebrown Caleb
• 56:15
  Speaker 4: Downs in the first round, which was a guy that
• 56:17
  Speaker 4: everyone said might have been a top three, top four player.
• 56:21
  Speaker 4: He plays a position that you usually don't use the
• 56:25
  Speaker 4: top four or five pick on. But I think also
• 56:27
  Speaker 4: looking at like we look at basketball in different ways
• 56:29
  Speaker 4: now positionless. I think Caleb down is the guy that
• 56:32
  Speaker 4: you use in a lot of different ways. And it's
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: not just Caleb Downs, it's also the new defensive coordinator,
• 56:39
  Speaker 4: Christian Parker. You know, there was this movement in the
• 56:41
  Speaker 4: NFL where you saw all these young offensive coordinators taking
• 56:44
  Speaker 4: over teams and pumping excitement into the franchise. Christian Parker
• 56:48
  Speaker 4: feels like the defensive version of that, right, you know,
• 56:52
  Speaker 4: came up. He'd been in Philadelphia and one of the
• 56:55
  Speaker 4: things that happened with the Dallas defense is not only
• 56:57
  Speaker 4: did they lose Micah Parsons, they were resoundingly boring and
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: uncreative and unwilling to evolve as the season went on,
• 57:07
  Speaker 4: and that was the fans became really weary of that.
• 57:10
  Speaker 4: And so you know, in Dallas in general, they just
• 57:13
  Speaker 4: want something that it seems like Jerry Jones is not
• 57:16
  Speaker 4: involved in the decision, and I think everyone kind of
• 57:18
  Speaker 4: feels like getting Christian Parker in here was outside of
• 57:22
  Speaker 4: the Jerry sphere. Whether that's accurate or not, that's the perception.
• 57:27
  Speaker 4: So the defense was atrocious, and now it feels like,
• 57:31
  Speaker 4: not only you know, they fortified the defensive line interior.
• 57:37
  Speaker 4: I mean they got two badass defensive tackles now, which
• 57:40
  Speaker 4: that was a problem for a decade, which that's five
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: lifetimes in the NFL. So there actually is, believe it
• 57:47
  Speaker 4: or not, some excitement that some foundational things are happening
• 57:51
  Speaker 4: on the defensive side of the football to get people
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: feeling better and my lovely Metroplex community of sports and
• 57:58
  Speaker 4: feeling like the Cowboys thing isn't a complete dumpster fire
• 58:01
  Speaker 4: right now?
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: Well and skin and what a pendulum swing from the
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: time of Doncic and Nico to now having Cooper flag
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: and everything back. And the thing I would observe from
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: a distance here is fan bases are really more galvanized
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: by tragedy and losing than they tend to be by winning.
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: And so you know, you have to go through these downs.
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: It galvanizes fan bases. My guess is the Mavericks fans
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: are going to come back swinging now, and so too
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: will the Dallas Cowboys fans, and they may be at
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: a fever pitch that they would have never reached without this,
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: you know, adversity that they faced, and it's been profound adversity,
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: sadly for Dallas between the Micah Parsons deal and Luka
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: Doncis deal, those were the two biggest. We talked about
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: those throughout all of sports as probably the two biggest
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: omissions from one sports franchises to another where there were
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: two lopsided deals. Coaches have been fired since then, gms
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: have been fired since the Jerry's still standing, But it
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: seems as if so two are the fans in Dallas,
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: both from a football and a basketball perspective, probably ready
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: to win at a level they never have won before
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: based upon the adversity they faced over the last eighteen
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: to twenty four months.
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: So Fad, going back to your point of fan base
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: is becoming galvanized from losing. As a Detroit Lions fan,
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: I'm as galvanized with my fan base and I can
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: possibly be at this point right because.
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: You're over galvanized.
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: I think we're over galvanized. I think we'd like to
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: win a little bit with.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: You're rusting at this galvanization and win a few games
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: and win a few seasons.
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: Here we're doing better now. We're doing better now, But
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: I get where you're going.
• 59:46
  Speaker 5: I think his skin pointed out. He probably knows Kenny
• 59:48
  Speaker 5: Clark's a pretty damn good football player that you guys
• 59:51
  Speaker 5: got Man and and that hurt. I'm not going to
• 59:54
  Speaker 5: lie as a Packer fan, I was like.
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: He was kind of a sneaky little steal in that.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 4: But I think they also just made him even better
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 4: by putting him next to and even better tackling Quinnon.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 4: Like that's that really changes you know what, when you
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 4: need as much as you need the Cowboys need a
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 4: lot on defense. But I believe this in really any sport,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: but especially in football. You know, you have your defensive line,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: you have your secondary, you have your linebacker. Find an
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 4: area where you can dominate an area first, like dominate
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 4: a specific area first. You're not going to solve every
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 4: problem at the at the same time, it's too difficult.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 4: But if you can find an area. Cowboys did that
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 4: really well when they built their offensive line with studs
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 4: to protect Romo. I love the way they drafted and
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 4: built up that offensive line, and so is the position
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: players changed what they had this area that they dominated.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 4: Now they're doing that on the interior of the defensive line.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 4: Can they get some pass rush from the outside, But
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: you have to find an area you can lean on.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 4: In my opinion, that you can really lean on first,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 4: and I think they have that on the interior.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: You're talking about defense in the NFL. It's hard to
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: have a completely dominant defense, so you neither have a
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: great pass rush a great run defense. So you gotta
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: have lockdown corners. You're not letting anything get out. I
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: agree with you there, though, dominate one piece of it
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: to start, and you can build off of that.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: Cheded.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: I think the Cubs and the Red Sox may be
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: your standard bearers for how long fan bases wait to galvanize.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: So there's a lot of organization.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: Yes, Skin, thank you so much for your time, exceptional.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: As always, please join us this Thursday and every Thursday
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: on Rosters to Rings