Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #524 Baby & Toddler Nutrition With Dr Anthea Rhodes

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#524 Baby & Toddler Nutrition With Dr Anthea Rhodes · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:03
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast.
0:05
Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just
0:09
Speaker 2: on answers me Now. Hello, This is doctor Justin Coulson,
0:12
Speaker 2: the founder of Happy Families dot com, dot you, the
0:14
Speaker 2: author of six books that to six Kids, and the
0:17
Speaker 2: parenting expert co host on Channel Line's Parentphical Guidance. I'm
0:20
Speaker 2: really excited today to have a conversation with somebody who
0:22
Speaker 2: I respect enormously and who does great work for helping
0:25
Speaker 2: us to understand more about what's going on with kids,
0:28
Speaker 2: their behavior, and the way that we live our lives
0:30
Speaker 2: in our families. Doctor Anthea Rhodes is a pediatrician, researcher
0:35
Speaker 2: and child health advocate. She also runs the Royal Children's
0:39
Speaker 2: Hospital Children's Health Poll out of Melbourne. She's been there
0:43
Speaker 2: since two thousand and four as a pediatrician and Anthea
0:45
Speaker 2: joins me today to talk about the latest Royal Children's
0:49
Speaker 2: Health Poll. Anthea, thanks for being on the Happy Family Podcast.
0:52
Speaker 1: Great to be here, Justin.
0:54
Speaker 2: The latest poll is about a topic that we don't
0:56
Speaker 2: usually cover off on the Happy Families podcast, and it's
1:00
Speaker 2: maybe because I'm not quite sure what to say about it,
1:02
Speaker 2: but I know that I've got opinions. It's just one
1:04
Speaker 2: of those topics that creates for some parents a little
1:07
Speaker 2: bit of shame, a little bit of worry, a little
1:08
Speaker 2: bit of oh, my goodness, another thing that I'm not
1:11
Speaker 2: doing well enough. So I want to be really careful
1:13
Speaker 2: in the way that we talk about what you've discovered. Here.
1:16
Speaker 2: We're talking about baby and toddler foods, the stuff that
1:18
Speaker 2: you buy prepackaged, the quick simple solutions to give the
1:22
Speaker 2: kids a squeezy pack because you've got to get them
1:24
Speaker 2: to eat something before you run out the door in
1:26
Speaker 2: the morning, and everything's gone wrong in the morning. So
1:29
Speaker 2: where should we start this national child health pole about
1:32
Speaker 2: ready made baby foods? How much do parents really know
1:35
Speaker 2: about what's in these foods? And do we need to
1:37
Speaker 2: be worried?
1:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think I think you've hit the nail
1:40
Speaker 3: on the head. They're justin in saying it's really important
1:42
Speaker 3: that this conversation is.
1:43
Speaker 1: Not about parents blaming or guilt.
1:45
Speaker 3: What we really wanted to find out is, you know,
1:47
Speaker 3: just how common is the use of ready.
1:50
Speaker 1: Made baby foods in an average.
1:51
Speaker 3: Famili's diet for the young kids, and what do parents
1:54
Speaker 3: know about the facts when it comes to these foods,
1:56
Speaker 3: how they're produced, how they regulated, what sort of contents
2:00
Speaker 3: go into them, and how they market it towards you
2:03
Speaker 3: when you walk down the supermarket aisle and you're bombarded
2:05
Speaker 3: with choice. And the first thing we learned is that
2:07
Speaker 3: it's really really common for ozzie babies and toddlers to
2:11
Speaker 3: have ready made foods as part of their diet. So
2:13
Speaker 3: around half of kids under five have some of these
2:17
Speaker 3: foods at least once a week, with some children having
2:20
Speaker 3: these make up most of their diet. Wow, So part
2:24
Speaker 3: of what we are doing as a society, and it's
2:26
Speaker 3: usually for convenience. So the most common reason parents gave
2:29
Speaker 3: for why they choose these products. You know, as you've said,
2:33
Speaker 3: we're busy, you're trying to get out the door, you
2:35
Speaker 3: might be running around in the car after school, you know,
2:37
Speaker 3: dropping kids off to different things, and convenience tops the
2:40
Speaker 3: list as to why parents choose ready made food products.
2:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got to jump in there and highlight. So
2:46
Speaker 2: when we first had our children and parents of six,
2:50
Speaker 2: the first few kids that we had, Kighly was amazing
2:53
Speaker 2: in terms of she'd use the ice cube trays and
2:55
Speaker 2: mash up all the vegetables and put the vegetables into
2:58
Speaker 2: the ice cube trays and then freeze them, and she
3:00
Speaker 2: could just defrost them in bite sized chunks for the
3:02
Speaker 2: kids so that they were getting the right amount of food.
3:05
Speaker 2: Kylie would pre prepare everything and have it in the
3:07
Speaker 2: fridge and the topp ofware containers and so good. By
3:10
Speaker 2: the time we got the children four, five, and six,
3:13
Speaker 2: were just exhausted. Granted it was mostly Kylie doing it.
3:16
Speaker 2: I was doing the PhD, or I was working or whatever,
3:19
Speaker 2: but eventually we got to the point where the kids
3:21
Speaker 2: were eating these things all the time. Our youngest kids
3:25
Speaker 2: ate so much of this pre prepared baby and toddler food,
3:30
Speaker 2: the ready made stuff, because it was just so convenient
3:33
Speaker 2: and we were just so exhausted. So I'm not surprised
3:36
Speaker 2: to hear you say that.
3:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, And look, being fired is what matters, right,
3:41
Speaker 3: You know, you don't want your kids going hungry, And
3:43
Speaker 3: you can totally understand that parents need a solution where
3:47
Speaker 3: they can have convenience and it doesn't have to come
3:49
Speaker 3: at the cost of healthiness for their kids. And that's
3:53
Speaker 3: where the really important thing here is. I guess in
3:55
Speaker 3: our study, most parents didn't know that there are really
3:59
Speaker 3: no regulations in Australia for toddler food products, so anything
4:04
Speaker 3: can be put into these products and they can be
4:06
Speaker 3: marketed really in any way that the companies like. And
4:09
Speaker 3: as a consumer, as a buyer of these products, you
4:12
Speaker 3: can really be misled as to how healthy some of
4:15
Speaker 3: these choices are. And they're not all created equal, so
4:18
Speaker 3: there are some healthier options and there's some less healthy options.
4:22
Speaker 3: So what we really would like to do is help
4:24
Speaker 3: parents to understand a bit more about how they choose
4:27
Speaker 3: the better product when they're making a decision. And the
4:30
Speaker 3: other big, real sort of outcome for us from this
4:33
Speaker 3: study is actually not about parents doing things differently, but
4:36
Speaker 3: about the government doing things differently. We want to see
4:39
Speaker 3: regulations at a government level but ensure that these products
4:44
Speaker 3: are healthy for kids and that they are clearly labeled
4:47
Speaker 3: and that they're not confusing for parents.
4:49
Speaker 1: Because these products are here to stay, we absolutely.
4:53
Speaker 3: Understand why parents choose to use them, and we need
4:56
Speaker 3: to make it easy for them to make healthier choices.
4:59
Speaker 2: I'm just thinking about our experience with these foods as
5:01
Speaker 2: the kids have grown, and I mean, even though we
5:03
Speaker 2: don't have babies and toddlers anymore, we still from time
5:05
Speaker 2: to time have prepackaged food in the fridge like that's
5:08
Speaker 2: just life. We all do it. But the kids from
5:11
Speaker 2: the youngest age, they always prefer the stuff that's in
5:14
Speaker 2: the packages. And as I think about what you're describing,
5:17
Speaker 2: I reckon. I can hazard to guess as to why
5:20
Speaker 2: if there are no regulations around what goes into these packages,
5:24
Speaker 2: then the really healthy stuff that's been cooked at home
5:27
Speaker 2: is probably not going to taste quite the same as
5:29
Speaker 2: the stuff that's coming out of the packages, the stuff
5:31
Speaker 2: with the preservatives or the sugars or the additives that
5:34
Speaker 2: are designed to make kids really like this stuff, and
5:36
Speaker 2: that's why they only want to eat what's in the
5:38
Speaker 2: squeeze package. Is that a fair core?
5:41
Speaker 1: It absolutely is.
5:41
Speaker 3: So the biggest product of concern that goes into these
5:45
Speaker 3: ready made foods is sugar, so particularly high concentrated amounts
5:50
Speaker 3: of sugar, which maybe from natural sauces. So often the
5:53
Speaker 3: products might be labeled as all natural sugars or no
5:57
Speaker 3: added sugars. But what has happened is fruit is basically
6:00
Speaker 3: concentrated right down because fruit is very sweet, but it's
6:03
Speaker 3: a natural product, right, and fruit we think fruit's healthy,
6:06
Speaker 3: So as a buyer. If you see that something's got
6:09
Speaker 3: fruit in it, you think, oh, that's going to be
6:11
Speaker 3: a healthy choice. But in fact, if the way that
6:13
Speaker 3: fruit has been processed makes it very, very concentrated, what
6:17
Speaker 3: it really means is it's a sneaky way for companies
6:20
Speaker 3: to add a lot of sugar.
6:21
Speaker 1: And we know that kids like sugar, I mean adults.
6:24
Speaker 3: Like sugar, and the more young children eat food products
6:29
Speaker 3: that are sweetened, they actually develop a preference where their
6:32
Speaker 3: palette wants more sweet food and that can really set
6:35
Speaker 3: them up for you know, not just a short term issue,
6:38
Speaker 3: but even sometimes a lifelong preference for sweetened foods. And
6:42
Speaker 3: they do have health implications. Obviously there's weight gain and
6:45
Speaker 3: unhealthy diet down the track can lead to that, and
6:49
Speaker 3: then for younger kids there's also a lot of issues
6:51
Speaker 3: with teeth and you know, cavities that can come from
6:54
Speaker 3: too much sugar in foods.
6:56
Speaker 2: Hearing you say that really resonates for me as we've
6:59
Speaker 2: watched the different ways that our kids, literally the oldest
7:03
Speaker 2: three versus the youngest three, approach food and diets. And
7:07
Speaker 2: I'm sure that we can't draw a direct straight line
7:09
Speaker 2: from the squeeze packs through to what they choose to
7:12
Speaker 2: do now, but there has to be some sort of correlation.
7:15
Speaker 2: Let me just go over a couple of other stats
7:16
Speaker 2: that came out of the pole. You said that one
7:18
Speaker 2: in five kids aged under five eat ready made foods
7:23
Speaker 2: most days of the week, which startled me. That's a
7:26
Speaker 2: fifth of kids eating ready made foods most days. More
7:30
Speaker 2: than half of parents think ready made baby and toddler
7:32
Speaker 2: food contains ingredients to make sure children grow and develop well.
7:36
Speaker 2: And fifty three percent of parents falsely believe that ready
7:39
Speaker 2: made food products for infants and toddlers are tightly regulated
7:42
Speaker 2: by government to ensure good nutrition. All statistics that sort
7:45
Speaker 2: of underscore and emphasize what you've been talking about as
7:48
Speaker 2: we've discussed things so far. Right after the break, doctor
7:51
Speaker 2: Anthea Rhodes is going to give us some tips on
7:53
Speaker 2: how we can make sure that we get the balance
7:55
Speaker 2: right and that we help our children, no matter their age,
7:57
Speaker 2: but particularly our infants and toddlers, can make sure that
8:00
Speaker 2: they're getting their nutritional needs met in guilt free ways
8:04
Speaker 2: that work for busy families. Your daughter just walked by,
8:10
Speaker 2: eyes glued to her phone, expression unreadable. You ask her
8:14
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8:16
Speaker 2: not good for her, but you're not sure why or
8:19
Speaker 2: how to support better choices. In the webinar pixel perfect
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8:27
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8:30
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8:33
Speaker 2: the Happy Family's webshop. It's the Happy Families Podcast, the
8:37
Speaker 2: podcast for the time poor parent who just wants answers. Now,
8:40
Speaker 2: I'm speaking with the person who runs the Royal Children's
8:44
Speaker 2: Health Poll, doctor Anthea Rhodes, a pediatrician, researcher and all
8:50
Speaker 2: round fantastic person who's going to give us some clues
8:52
Speaker 2: now about what we do about getting the kids off
8:54
Speaker 2: those squeeze packs when they're addicted to them. How do
8:56
Speaker 2: we feed our kids healthily when we are time poor.
9:00
Speaker 2: The stuff does taste great and it's all vullia, when
9:02
Speaker 2: the cost is actually pretty reasonable a lot of the time,
9:05
Speaker 2: and when we actually feel like we're giving the kids
9:07
Speaker 2: healthy choices.
9:07
Speaker 3: Anthea, Yeah, so it's not easy justin I think that's
9:10
Speaker 3: the first thing to say to parents. And there are
9:13
Speaker 3: ways to still choose some of these convenient, ready made
9:16
Speaker 3: products without having to compromise that healthy diet for your kids.
9:20
Speaker 3: First thing to mention, of course, is everything in moderation
9:23
Speaker 3: is always good. So ideally you don't want to be
9:26
Speaker 3: having these food products every single meal, every single snack,
9:29
Speaker 3: every single day. But as a small part of the diet,
9:33
Speaker 3: then there are ways you can make choices where they're
9:34
Speaker 3: going to be absolutely okay, and we know that the
9:37
Speaker 3: benefits of that convenience are worth those choices on that particular.
9:41
Speaker 1: Day or in that given moment.
9:43
Speaker 3: If you have a look at the packet of the
9:44
Speaker 3: food products, there's a bit of information there that can
9:47
Speaker 3: help you to make the healthier choice. It's really hard
9:50
Speaker 3: to do that when you're in the supermarket. You know,
9:52
Speaker 3: I've got four kids myself. They're hanging off your leg,
9:55
Speaker 3: or they're complaining, or they're looking at the ads on
9:57
Speaker 3: the packets and the cartoon carriacter and then trying.
10:00
Speaker 1: To persuade you to buy a certain product.
10:03
Speaker 3: That's not the moment to stop and pull out, you know,
10:07
Speaker 3: the nutrition panel and try and work out which product
10:09
Speaker 3: to choose. The time to do it is at home later,
10:12
Speaker 3: so buy a few different things.
10:15
Speaker 1: Once the kids are in bed.
10:16
Speaker 3: You get five minutes to yourself, hopefully have a cup
10:19
Speaker 3: of tea, have a look at the packets, and that
10:22
Speaker 3: you can use that information then to work out which
10:24
Speaker 3: one's going to be a healthier choice, and you might
10:26
Speaker 3: go for that option next time. There are two things
10:29
Speaker 3: that I would suggest parents have a look at. The
10:31
Speaker 3: First one is the ingredients list. So that's literally that
10:35
Speaker 3: list where each ingredient appears in a row in a
10:39
Speaker 3: line with a percentage behind it, and the rules that
10:42
Speaker 3: do exist tell us that whatever's most common in that
10:46
Speaker 3: product has to appear first. So if you're buying something
10:50
Speaker 3: like perhaps you know, a bolonnaise, a bolonnaise product, you
10:55
Speaker 3: would hope that the first thing on that list might
10:57
Speaker 3: be something you expect to find in bolonnaise, amato, It
11:01
Speaker 3: might be meat of some sort. If the first thing
11:04
Speaker 3: on that list is apple or pair, then what you
11:08
Speaker 3: know is that actually that product's got a lot of
11:10
Speaker 3: added sugar in it that is actually going to be
11:13
Speaker 3: the main part of the ingredients that your child is eating.
11:16
Speaker 3: So I would look at that list, and particularly the
11:19
Speaker 3: first one too, even three items on it, and if
11:22
Speaker 3: it's not sounding like a healthy product based on that information,
11:26
Speaker 3: choose something else.
11:27
Speaker 1: That's the first tip.
11:29
Speaker 3: The second is the thing called the nutrition information panel,
11:33
Speaker 3: or sometimes we call it the NIP, and that's a
11:36
Speaker 3: box on the back of all food products that has
11:38
Speaker 3: a whole list of ingredients and then a whole bunch
11:40
Speaker 3: of numbers. Sometimes we feel like you need, you know,
11:44
Speaker 3: a science degree and a calculator to actually work.
11:46
Speaker 1: Out what it means. Most of it I would ignore.
11:49
Speaker 3: But the one thing that you know, if you're going
11:51
Speaker 3: to choose something to look at, would be the sugar.
11:55
Speaker 3: Scroll down the table, have a bit of a look
11:57
Speaker 3: fine sugar. Look across at the aut per one hundred
12:00
Speaker 3: grams and see how many grams.
12:02
Speaker 1: Of sugar are in that product.
12:05
Speaker 3: A good rule of thumb is that a teaspoon of
12:08
Speaker 3: sugar is equal to four grams. Some of these squeezy
12:12
Speaker 3: food products, yogurts fruits particularly, can contain a lot of sugar.
12:18
Speaker 3: Will have thirty grams of sugar, for example, in them.
12:21
Speaker 3: So you know, straight off the bat, that's seven teaspoons
12:25
Speaker 3: of sugar, and if your child's going to have two
12:28
Speaker 3: or three of those over the day, then that rapidly
12:31
Speaker 3: adds up to way more sugar than they need for
12:34
Speaker 3: a healthy diet.
12:35
Speaker 2: I've just I've got to jump in here that this
12:37
Speaker 2: has blown my mind. So I always look at that
12:39
Speaker 2: little panel. My mum's a dietitian, She's never taught me
12:42
Speaker 2: how to read the panel, but I do know that
12:44
Speaker 2: under the sugars that usually says carbohydrates and sugars. And
12:48
Speaker 2: so I'm just curious before we get two caught up
12:50
Speaker 2: in the whole four grams per tablespoon, So twenty eight grams,
12:53
Speaker 2: that's seven tablespoons. I mean, that's a phenomenal amount of sugar.
12:56
Speaker 2: If one of my kids had a Milo and they
12:58
Speaker 2: put seven spoons of sugar into that Milo, I'd be
13:02
Speaker 2: I'd be having conniptions, I'd be losing it. So is
13:05
Speaker 2: there a difference in the different kinds of sugars that
13:08
Speaker 2: are in there? Or is sugars total sufficient for us
13:11
Speaker 2: to make this decision when it comes to what's on
13:14
Speaker 2: that nip that nutritional information panel.
13:17
Speaker 1: Yeah.
13:18
Speaker 3: So, sugar is a complex business and there are a
13:20
Speaker 3: lot of different ways that it can be named, and
13:24
Speaker 3: that can add to the confusion, and it can also
13:27
Speaker 3: add to ways that companies developing these products can sneak
13:31
Speaker 3: sugar in.
13:31
Speaker 1: And it's not clear that it's in there.
13:33
Speaker 3: So the easiest thing to do is actually literally use
13:36
Speaker 3: the word that says sugars.
13:38
Speaker 1: That will be a minimum.
13:40
Speaker 3: There may be more than that in the product, but
13:42
Speaker 3: that is definitely at least as much as is in
13:46
Speaker 3: the product.
13:46
Speaker 1: So to keep it simple, there will always.
13:49
Speaker 3: Be a road that says sugars. That's the one to
13:51
Speaker 3: look at and have a look at the number of grams.
13:53
Speaker 3: And some of these products actually are great, and you know,
13:56
Speaker 3: they might have two or four grams of sugar, which
13:59
Speaker 3: is not an un reasonable amount for a pouch that
14:01
Speaker 3: contains fruit or contains yogurt. There's going to be a
14:03
Speaker 3: little bit of sugar in that. The other thing I
14:05
Speaker 3: will say is it might surprise you which ones are
14:08
Speaker 3: healthier and which ones are less healthy. Some that are
14:11
Speaker 3: marketed to look really healthy in the way that their
14:14
Speaker 3: packaging is, and they might have lots of comments on
14:16
Speaker 3: there or claims about nothing being added, or being all
14:19
Speaker 3: natural or being organic. Sometimes they're the ones that really
14:22
Speaker 3: actually are the worst.
14:24
Speaker 1: And then even some of the.
14:25
Speaker 3: Others covered in cartoons where you think, oh, this is
14:27
Speaker 3: really going to be bad, when you look at the numbers,
14:30
Speaker 3: it's much better.
14:32
Speaker 1: So take a minute end of.
14:33
Speaker 3: The day after the kids have eaten it and decide, Okay,
14:37
Speaker 3: next time, I'm going to go for this one.
14:39
Speaker 2: That's fascinating. Are there any other tips that can be helpful?
14:42
Speaker 2: Just before we wrap this up.
14:43
Speaker 1: One other really great tip.
14:45
Speaker 3: I mentioned teeth, and you know how problematic sugary foods
14:49
Speaker 3: can be for teeth.
14:49
Speaker 1: We know that with squeezy packets.
14:52
Speaker 3: Parents listening, you know, I'm sure have handed a pouch
14:55
Speaker 3: as I have to my kids.
14:56
Speaker 1: And I heard a parents say.
14:57
Speaker 3: To me in mum's group once it's parenting, varna that
15:00
Speaker 3: moment where you can hand the pouch over and you
15:03
Speaker 3: know your toddler can take care of it themselves. There
15:05
Speaker 3: is no mutt mess and they're just you know, sucking
15:08
Speaker 3: straight back from the packet and life is suddenly easy.
15:11
Speaker 1: You can do it on the go, in the pram,
15:12
Speaker 1: in the car.
15:14
Speaker 3: The downside to that is that that product is getting
15:16
Speaker 3: all around the teeth. It's not the same even as
15:19
Speaker 3: drinking juice, because it's quite thick and it will actually
15:21
Speaker 3: coat teeth and it can lead to problems with teeth.
15:24
Speaker 1: So a great rule of thumb, if.
15:26
Speaker 3: You can't avoid this all the time, is to follow
15:29
Speaker 3: with a drink of water. So if your child's just
15:31
Speaker 3: had a squeezy pouch of some sort, hand them water
15:34
Speaker 3: afterwards to actually at least rinse off the mouth and
15:37
Speaker 3: the teeth, to try and reduce that sugar sitting around.
15:40
Speaker 3: And of course whenever you can, try squeezing these products
15:43
Speaker 3: into a spoon, giving them into a bowl, giving them
15:46
Speaker 3: a spoon, so that they can also have a go
15:47
Speaker 3: at eating it in that way, because they're learning all
15:50
Speaker 3: kinds of things.
15:51
Speaker 1: Then about you know how to use.
15:52
Speaker 3: Cutlery, what the food product actually looks like, smells like,
15:57
Speaker 3: you know, in a way that they don't learn if
15:59
Speaker 3: they're only ever sucking it straight from the pouch.
16:02
Speaker 2: What a great conversation. And of course, as you mentioned already,
16:05
Speaker 2: but I just want to emphasize it again, everything in moderation,
16:08
Speaker 2: everything in moderation.
16:10
Speaker 3: One or these things across the day is absolutely part
16:15
Speaker 3: of the way many people manage the diet for their kids.
16:18
Speaker 3: But it needs to be mixed up with other things,
16:20
Speaker 3: whole foods, fresh ingredients where you can. It's not about
16:24
Speaker 3: telling parents get back to the kitchen make everything from scratch.
16:27
Speaker 3: It's not practical and in fact it's not even necessary
16:30
Speaker 3: but it's about balancing things and when you are choosing
16:33
Speaker 3: some of those ready made products, trying to choose the
16:35
Speaker 3: best ones so that they're still healthy options. It shouldn't
16:38
Speaker 3: be that convenience means we have to be unhealthy. Ideally
16:42
Speaker 3: we can achieve both things.
16:44
Speaker 2: Doctor Anthea Rhodes runs the Royal Children's Hospital National Child
16:49
Speaker 2: Health Pole. If you'd like more information about it, Anthea,
16:52
Speaker 2: where can people go to get all of the details
16:55
Speaker 2: on this pole and the others?
16:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, so jump online.
16:58
Speaker 3: We have a website rchble dot org dot au so
17:02
Speaker 3: lots of information there, including some great tips and handouts
17:05
Speaker 3: for parents. And we've also got a podcast justin the
17:09
Speaker 3: RCH Kids Health Info podcast, and we've got an episode
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Speaker 3: coming up on there about fussy eating, which is another
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Speaker 3: big part of the challenge when it comes to getting
17:18
Speaker 3: kids to eat the things you really want them to eat.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Outstanding. So we'll make sure that we link both to
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Speaker 2: the pole and of the podcast so people can find
17:24
Speaker 2: out more information about it. I think that it's a
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Speaker 2: really nice marriage between the work we do here and
17:28
Speaker 2: the work that you're doing there. Great to talk to you, Anthea,
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Speaker 2: Thanks so much for your time.
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Speaker 1: My pleasure. Justin great to be on.
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Speaker 2: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Rowanck from
17:36
Speaker 2: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer and for
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Speaker 2: more information about making your family happier, you can visit
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Speaker 2: us at happy families dot com dot au