Latest / Arts Unscripted with Monica Holt / Tom Gabbard on Cultivating Creative Cities and Building Space for Innovation

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Tom Gabbard on Cultivating Creative Cities and Building Space for Innovation · Arts Unscripted with Monica Holt

• 0:08
  Welcome back to CI to Eye. I'm Monica Holt.
• 0:12
  When Tom Gabbard left law school, he realized something about how he's wired.
• 0:16
  Lawyers are trained to find all the reasons why something cannot happen,
• 0:20
  but what energized Tom was figuring out how to get to Yes.
• 0:24
  That philosophy has driven his 22 year transformation of Charlotte's
• 0:29
  Blumenthal performing Arts. And as president and CEO,
• 0:33
  he's experimented with new genres.
• 0:35
  He turned Charlotte into a top 10 Broadway market and built community by
• 0:39
  listening first.
• 0:41
  But Tom's most ambitious innovation came from one simple question,
• 0:46
  does anybody know someone whose worst nightmare is being stuck in a permanent
• 0:50
  seat for two hours? That insight led to Blume Studios,
• 0:55
  a 44,000 square foot immersive arts hub that in many ways
• 1:00
  serves as a research and development lab for creativity. At Blume Studios,
• 1:05
  Tom and his team are rapidly redefining who artists are,
• 1:09
  how we engage with them, and how anyone in the community can experience art.
• 1:14
  Tom shares how careful listening sparks unexpected new programs and how
• 1:18
  curiosity fuels transformation. Let's dive in.
• 1:29
  Tom Ard, welcome to CI to Eye. Thank you so much for being here with us today.
• 1:35
  My pleasure. I've really been looking forward to this.
• 1:38
  So before we get to Charlotte and Blumenthal,
• 1:41
  could you tell us a little bit about your first experiences with art growing up?
• 1:46
  I grew up in San Jose,
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  California and was lucky to be in a public school district that really embraced
• 1:53
  the arts.
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  And I would say a pivotal moment for me was as a fourth grader going to hear the
• 1:58
  US Marine Corps Band at the San Jose Civic Auditorium.
• 2:03
  And I looked up there and I said, I want to do that,
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  and started taking French horn lessons.
• 2:10
  That's wonderful. Can I ask why the French horn called to you?
• 2:13
  Why was that your instrument of choice?
• 2:15
  Yeah, I tried a number of instruments at fourth grade and for whatever reason,
• 2:20
  they thought my asure because the Asure in your lips and all of that come into
• 2:25
  play. They thought that was the instrument for me, and it was.
• 2:28
  The instrument chose the player. In that case, I'll share with you,
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  when I was choosing an instrument,
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  I wanted a instrument that would help me get into a good high school and a good
• 2:38
  college. So something unique.
• 2:39
  And so it came down to the French horn and the oboe,
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  and then I learned about spit valves on brass instruments and I said, no,
• 2:48
  thank you. I shall take a double read,
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  but I have lots of respect for brass players and who knows if I had the right
• 2:54
  omnisure anyway to go down that path. So you play the French horn,
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  you're entrenching yourself.
• 3:00
  The arts are clearly a part of your life from a young age,
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  but I would say you have kind of an interesting journey that you took to land
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  where you are now. It's not necessarily a straight line.
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  So can you talk a little bit about those aspirations initially and what ended up
• 3:16
  happening and how you pursued it?
• 3:18
  I've always just been immensely curious about the arts
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  generally. So coming up through high school,
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  I did a lot of technical theater and was a performer and my performance
• 3:30
  skills as a singer,
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  secondarily as an instrumentalist were strong enough that I had a full tuition
• 3:35
  ride through college.
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  So I performed a lot and I'm so glad that I did that because frankly,
• 3:41
  it really anchored me in the aesthetic and it taught me so much about
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  audiences,
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  but I always knew that getting into management was what I wanted to do.
• 3:51
  So I went right from undergrad into an MBA program,
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  which is very unusual. And I thought at that point that I was going to go into
• 3:59
  symphony management. And so as a culmination of my graduate program,
• 4:03
  the Hewlett Foundation paid six months for me to do an internship and I thought
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  I was going to go to work at the San Diego Symphony working for a guy by the of
• 4:11
  Dick Bass who had played a big role in creating the Hollywood Bowl success.
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  And about four months before I was to begin my internship, he called and said,
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  look, I'm taking a job as the new CEO of the Minnesota Orchestra,
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  and you can follow me there,
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  but I'm not going to have any time to spend with you.
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  And so with very short notice to make other plans,
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  I went to the Scottsdale Center for the Arts, which was relatively new,
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  but it introduced me to multidiscipline Arts,
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  not just performing arts, but also visual arts and education.
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  And looking back,
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  that's exactly where I needed to go and where I've maintained
• 4:52
  my career.
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  I think what's so interesting about your story in that way is
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  that I talked to a lot of people who didn't know or think about the management
• 5:03
  side of the arts until much later.
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  How did you know that arts management was a career path?
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  Yeah, I mean,
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  I always knew that I was good at organizing that I was eager to try to make
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  things happen rather than being reliant on other people. I mean,
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  I went off to college with my first lightboard that I had made out of a
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  box and put four household rea stats in it and I had four
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  Fornell lights, and that was so that I could do shows with my friends.
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  So I always had this innate sense that somehow I would be involved in organizing
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  the arts.
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  Wow, that's very cool to think about. Yeah,
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  a lot of folks talk about how do we make sure more people know that that's a
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  viable career path along with becoming a doctor, an engineer or a lawyer.
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  And speaking of, you spent some time in law school while you were working.
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  What was the experience like?
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  What did you take it and why did you ultimately decide to move on from that
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  pursuit?
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  So I did go to law school and finish the first year program really intending to
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  get into entertainment law,
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  but I didn't continue on because I realized frankly that I was really good
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  at trying to figure out the nuance of how to get to yes.
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  And I felt like in law school I was being trained to find all the reasons not to
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  do something and then I'm wired more to figure out
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  what do we have to overcome to make this happen.
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  But I will always be grateful that I had all these foundational courses,
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  contracts, analytical thinking and writing.
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  My writing really improved.
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  So I'll always be grateful for having that first year under my builds.
• 6:43
  That's great.
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  So many of those skills that you talk about are ones that I know we just need to
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  fortify the field weight as we move forward.
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  So you kind of find your home in multi-genre presenting and
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  producing on the West Coast,
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  and now you find yourself in Charlotte, North Carolina.
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  Could you tell us a little bit about Blumenthal Performing Arts and what your
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  approach was when you came there as its incoming president and
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  CEO and what it was like when you arrived?
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  Charlotte was a very different place then.
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  Now a lot of people admire the vibrancy of our city and the
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  dynamism of it. When they opened Blumenthal in 92,
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  there was not a nice restaurant opened after 5:30 PM Literally there
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  was not a decent place to eat after five 30. So that had begun to transform,
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  but we still had a lot of work to do there.
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  I will also say at that point they were focused on being an international
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  finance center and we're less focused on cultivating creativity.
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  I'm really pleased to say now we are an incredibly vibrant creative city.
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  Yes, we're a dynamic business center, but now we've added this creative edge.
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  I mean,
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  I hear this from people who visit us frequently that say there's something in
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  the air here creatively that people are buzzing, that they're curious,
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  that they're interested.
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  And the Blumenthal has been very much a part of it. We're a traditional
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  performing arts center where we have resident companies like the Symphony
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  Ballet, the Opera, we do a lot of presenting.
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  We're considered a top 10 market in the touring Broadway business.
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  So a lot of Broadway, but we have gone way beyond that now,
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  getting outside of our four proper theaters and are doing outside
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  festival work. We started the Charlotte International Arts Festival,
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  which is largely outside, largely in neighborhoods, largely free.
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  And then last year opened our new immersive experience center that we call
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  Blume Studios.
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  So we really have held on to the traditional scene.
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  So it's not like we've abandoned that programming,
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  but we've seen the opportunity for growth in reaching out in these other ways.
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  So finding different products in different places has been really integral
• 9:00
  to expanding those who are part of our family. And boy has it really worked.
• 9:06
  That's right.
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  I'm looking forward to talking some more about Blume Studios in particular,
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  but you mentioned that you really transformed Charlotte into a top 10 touring
• 9:14
  market for Broadway nationally.
• 9:18
  That's pretty incredible given the size of the city and how new the performing
• 9:22
  Arts center was.
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  So what was the strategy you employed and how did you build that program to such
• 9:28
  great success?
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  I mean, first of all, I think we have made a very concerted effort to help
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  producers and creators actually have the investment capital to create products.
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  So we are probably the most active investors in
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  Broadway, touring Broadway as well as the West end of anybody out there,
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  and actually manage a group that's called the Independent Presenters Network
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  that includes many of the leading performing arts centers and presenters of
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  Broadway across the country.
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  That group has played a key role in raising investment capital.
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  So these shows conform,
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  but I don't think people realize how fragile these shows are.
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  They're generally looking backwards at a hit and saying, oh,
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  everybody would've known that was a hit. Well, they don't. None of us do.
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  And so the fact that we are able to mobilize money among these venues,
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  which also then begins to create a pathway for a tour because
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  once a presenter feels not just financially invested but emotionally
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  invested in a show that lays a pathway for that show,
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  we're doing this with the industry in mind,
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  and I definitely bring a philosophy of the greater good to it,
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  but in the process, Charlotte ends up being well-served through that.
• 10:48
  Yeah,
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  I'm glad that you shed some light on how the process works and the way that
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  you're looking at the market and its health and how to support.
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  I think some of that isn't always well-known by folks who are doing the
• 11:00
  work of promoting the shows or fundraising for the institutions.
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  Some of that programmatic work can be a little more opaque just by nature,
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  and I think it's really important to hear how sustaining the national performing
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  arts centers are when they work together to really be looking at the health of
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  any genre of art, really.
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  Yeah,
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  we also bring more shows to Charlotte than just about any city and
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  certainly as compared with other presenters,
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  typically now we're in the range of 17 to 19 shows,
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  most of which are equity shows.
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  So we give people a lot of choices and approach that in a very
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  supportive way.
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  We have a program here for our season ticket holders where they can swap out to
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  four shows. Some people will have a swap program where they can do one.
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  We allow up to four.
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  So that actually gives us more latitude to be expansive in what we do.
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  We can have some things that are a little edgier because nobody's forced to come
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  see these shows. That's right. If it's not their cup of tea,
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  we're not going to force them to do it. And conversely,
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  if they're really curious and they want the edgy things,
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  they can give up the more conservative stuff. So honestly,
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  I think that's been a part of how we fed the market and their curiosity,
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  and it certainly allowed us to bring some things to our city that otherwise
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  would not have been financially viable.
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  Yeah, that's fantastic. And you've also,
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  from the beginning really had your antenna up in terms of what was missing
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  locally that Blumenthal could be a part of.
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  Can you walk me through a little bit of the discovery process you use when
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  you're looking to build those really authentic connections with the community
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  and what art forms could be supported in Charlotte?
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  I think with so much of what we do,
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  we have to just be prepared to try things and take some risk.
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  We have to manage that risk financially, but keep ourselves open.
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  So one example,
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  we for many years have had a spoken word program that we're very proud of,
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  but I will say they reached a plateau at a certain point and I thought I need to
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  do something to energize that program.
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  So through my various visits to Sadler's Wells in London,
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  I became aware of a program they annually do there called Breakin' Convention.
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  It's an international hip hop festival,
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  and I really admired what they were doing.
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  They were bringing cool groups from all over the world,
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  but also then working with local groups that they showcased in a weekend long
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  festival. And so I turned to the artistic director, Jonzi D., and I said,
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  look, I'm not sure if we're right for this or not,
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  but would you come and just check this out? So he came to Charlotte and I said,
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  look, just hang out for a few days.
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  I'll hook you up with some people that'll show you around,
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  and then you tell me at the end of the week,
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  does Charlotte have the DNA for this? And then secondly,
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  are we the right ones to do it if we do have the DNA?
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  So we show him around and he said, you guys,
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  so have the DNA for this. He said, it's all in the shadows,
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  but you have the potential to really connect these people,
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  and they were so complimented that you were even thinking about this.
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  So for three years, with the help of Sadler's Wells and their wonderful team,
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  we brought groups from all around the world,
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  but then also worked with our local hip hop community, not just dancers,
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  but graffiti artists. I let them actually paint inside our night theater.
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  My staff thought I was crazy when they're spray painting on the pillars of the
• 14:27
  inside of our night theater, but I said, Hey, look,
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  this is about bringing street art into a proper theater and showcasing it in a
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  beautiful way, and that includes the graffiti artists.
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  So it did so much to energize that community,
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  but also to connect us.
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  Nobody in their wildest minds would've thought that Charlotte was ripe for
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  that, and certainly Blumenthal, they had no history of doing this,
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  but it was transformative for us.
• 14:55
  Yeah, it sounds like it's really informed how you continue to seek out those
• 14:59
  opportunities for, again,
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  meaningful ongoing relationships that introduce new artists and art forms and
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  really connect the national scale of what Blumenthal can do weighed the local
• 15:10
  scene and the empowerment of artists there.
• 15:13
  You mentioned earlier Blume Studios relatively new for Blumenthal,
• 15:18
  it's 44,000 square feet of something that industry experts
• 15:23
  say doesn't exist anywhere else, which I believe to be true.
• 15:27
  You can tell us all the facts and figures associated,
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  but why did this need to exist and what community were you trying
• 15:36
  to identify and uplift in building this 44,000 square
• 15:41
  foot studio?
• 15:42
  So in our case,
• 15:44
  we started doing immersive as a way to activate our team.
• 15:48
  Coming out of COVID, I had over 200 people that were out of work.
• 15:53
  And so in July of 2020, a few months into this,
• 15:57
  I got a call from Corey Ross in Toronto who said, look,
• 16:01
  I've just opened this immersive Van Gogh show,
• 16:04
  and I'm not quite sure, but I think I'm onto something. So boom,
• 16:10
  it right away appeared to me to be something that we could potentially do before
• 16:14
  we're able to open our theaters and begin to reacclimate the
• 16:19
  public to coming inside for a cultural experience.
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  So in June of 21,
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  we opened immersive Van Gogh and over the next six and a half months,
• 16:29
  we had 300,000 people come through the doors.
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  And.
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  78% Of those people were new to file,
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  meaning that they had never bought a ticket from us before.
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  We have a very rich database because not only do we have a lot of
• 16:45
  different shows through our own venues,
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  and we do all the ticketing in our venues,
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  but we do ticketing for other clubs and theaters in the region.
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  So we had this rich database and 78% of these folks were new to file,
• 16:59
  so we knew we were on the right path. I will also say in that journey,
• 17:03
  about a year later,
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  I went to Barcelona to EDL and saw the immersive next
• 17:09
  to normal, and that's when I realized, okay,
• 17:13
  these places can be actual performance halls that you could actually do a
• 17:17
  performance that was really quite remarkable.
• 17:20
  So that made us realize with Full Force,
• 17:23
  we needed to find a substantial facility to continue that work.
• 17:28
  Right. So coming out of the pandemic where you did Van Gogh,
• 17:31
  that was kind of a temporary trial to see if that would work.
• 17:36
  Incredible success there.
• 17:38
  But here's what really was transformative for the long term.
• 17:43
  We very uniquely work with local artists to animate the space. In that case,
• 17:48
  we had 75 square feet.
• 17:50
  The digital art show only needed about 19,000 square feet.
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  So we actually created an artist residency program and would have artists that
• 17:59
  we actually paid them a stipends to be there 40 hours a week.
• 18:03
  They could work plus sell themed merch that was in the merch shop
• 18:08
  and this version of immersive Van Gogh from Lighthouse, it was in 21 cities.
• 18:13
  We were one of 21 cities that merch ended up being sold in other cities.
• 18:18
  That alone generated well over $600,000 to Louisville artists at a
• 18:23
  time that they were out of work as well.
• 18:26
  But that idea of connecting a commercial product that was brought in
• 18:31
  with a really authentic local arts component,
• 18:35
  that was something that was a key organizing principle.
• 18:41
  I mean, that's brilliant. The idea of taking something, again,
• 18:44
  it's what we were talking about earlier,
• 18:45
  how do you take what's national in scale, but then for the local community,
• 18:49
  don't just say, and here's this great art,
• 18:51
  aren't you so glad that we presented it for you to experience,
• 18:54
  but how can you get involved?
• 18:55
  How can we support our local artists in a meaningful way? Okay,
• 18:59
  so you have this incredible experience and then you were looking at how do
• 19:04
  you sustain that longterm? What would the right space be?
• 19:07
  I know that you also embarked on kind of a global research process as you were
• 19:11
  looking at what's possible.
• 19:13
  So what gaps did you see not just in opportunity for
• 19:18
  Charlotte, for Blumenthal, but also just in existing immersive entertainment,
• 19:23
  and how did this become a moment to coalesce all of those ideas together into
• 19:27
  what became Blume Studios?
• 19:30
  Yeah,
• 19:30
  we bring a lens of how do we accomplish something good for our industry,
• 19:35
  for our peers, and how can we help create replicatable models?
• 19:40
  And so a number of principles that we've undertaken that hopefully
• 19:45
  will be inspiration to other people is a much more sustainable approach to
• 19:49
  creating space that is a form of a popup where you're
• 19:54
  not making a huge commitment in infrastructure. At Blume Studios,
• 19:59
  our mantra is nimble, scrappy, highly creative.
• 20:03
  Nimble, scrappy, highly creative.
• 20:05
  That's a mantra we should really start embodying.
• 20:09
  And as somebody that's been in the performing arts center business for a lot of
• 20:12
  years, I can say that's not how we usually build and operate these buildings.
• 20:18
  No, no, no, no, no, no. Quite the opposite.
• 20:22
  And so to some degree,
• 20:24
  that's actually gotten me fired up to realize after a lot of years of
• 20:29
  building and operating very expensive places,
• 20:32
  that these spaces can actually be much more interesting and much more energized.
• 20:36
  And because of their scrappiness,
• 20:38
  we're part of launching a 55 acre industrial site called the Iron
• 20:42
  District, and they expect it'll take 35 to 50 years to build it out and said,
• 20:47
  Hey, we'll be ready to move around to help activate your site.
• 20:51
  So in this warehouse that we came into,
• 20:54
  we made it a point to try to make sure that everything was movable within the
• 20:58
  building. So for instance, instead of building out permanent bathrooms,
• 21:03
  we put the bathrooms in shipping containers,
• 21:07
  and we can move them around in the building, we can move them elsewhere.
• 21:11
  I will say a source of inspiration.
• 21:14
  There has been my friend Tris Baker in London and Troubadour Theaters because
• 21:18
  Tris has been building these semi-permanent movable theaters in London for a
• 21:23
  few years,
• 21:25
  and working very constructively with developers to do exactly what I described
• 21:29
  there. I was setting up shop for a while,
• 21:32
  generating a lot of activity that brings the public, acquaints them,
• 21:36
  and then when they're ready to cash out and build an office tower or something,
• 21:40
  then he picks up and moves.
• 21:41
  So I want to give a shout out to Tris and his team for that inspiration that
• 21:45
  we're trying to embrace.
• 21:47
  For sure. I'm so curious.
• 21:49
  If you were to give the thesis statement for Blume Studios or the
• 21:54
  elevator pitch, how would you respond?
• 21:57
  I think in some respects, we're an r and d lab for creativity.
• 22:02
  We are rapidly redefining creativity, who creators are, who artists are,
• 22:07
  how you experience creativity,
• 22:09
  so to create a place where we can experiment with those things. I mean,
• 22:13
  even the ticketed shows, we are experimenting with the marketing,
• 22:17
  we're experimenting with how to organize them and operate them,
• 22:21
  but then when it comes to the free areas,
• 22:23
  we're being able to work with local artists to create an affordable place for
• 22:28
  them to try things.
• 22:30
  Yeah,
• 22:31
  immersive is a word with a lot of weight these days as more and more experiences
• 22:35
  are being offered.
• 22:37
  What do you think are the audience's expectations of
• 22:41
  attending an event or an exhibition or coming to Blume Studios?
• 22:47
  When I first started talking to my board about this,
• 22:49
  I would ask him the question. I'd say,
• 22:51
  does anybody know somebody that their worst nightmare is being stuck in a
• 22:55
  permanent seat for two hours? And of course,
• 22:59
  everybody knows somebody like that, and it's because they're active,
• 23:03
  they want to move, and in our proper venues,
• 23:06
  we haven't had a way to serve them.
• 23:10
  They deserve a creative experience as well.
• 23:13
  So an environment where people can be mobile and particularly that they're
• 23:17
  encouraged to actually touch and participate in some way that they can be
• 23:20
  interacting with the arts.
• 23:22
  I think that's a common feature through this and something we don't talk about
• 23:26
  often enough is it does serve in a very unique way,
• 23:30
  a sense of providing community that people are looking for. Absolutely.
• 23:34
  And.
• 23:35
  Most of this immersive has what I would describe as light touch
• 23:40
  communal elements to it.
• 23:42
  When I think back to a business that did that early on was Starbucks
• 23:47
  30 years ago,
• 23:48
  having that setting where people could come and park themselves at a table and
• 23:53
  be around other people, maybe have a conversation, maybe not,
• 23:57
  but be a part of that communal experience that was what people were looking for,
• 24:02
  that is a much greater need now.
• 24:03
  And I find immersive actually provides that opportunity for people
• 24:08
  in a very unique way. With our free space,
• 24:11
  we find people that will go through the ticketed experience and then they'll
• 24:16
  hang out for another 60 or 90 minutes. That to me,
• 24:20
  demonstrates that that communal piece is part of what they're looking for
• 24:25
  from it. The last thing I would mention,
• 24:27
  people should expect that every time they come out,
• 24:29
  it'll be different and that they should have this sense of anticipation about,
• 24:34
  so what does Blumenthal have up their sleeve this time?
• 24:38
  And that sense of excitement that it will always be different.
• 24:43
  And I think that's also part of what is unique about Immersive that people are
• 24:47
  looking for.
• 24:50
  What you're learning about programming and audiences through Blume
• 24:55
  Studios changed your perspective on anything.
• 24:57
  Was there anything that surprised you that you learned?
• 25:01
  Number one,
• 25:02
  it's continued to help us connect with audiences that we historically haven't
• 25:07
  had a lot of contact with. And frankly,
• 25:09
  the love and appreciation that that's generated for us as an
• 25:13
  institution is quite remarkable and something that I just value every
• 25:18
  day. We talk about these institutions,
• 25:21
  we talk about how we can improve our brands and be viewed as more community
• 25:25
  centric.
• 25:26
  And this has been the most successful way that we have been able to show to the
• 25:30
  community that we really do care and that we really are listening,
• 25:33
  that they really are welcome and particularly for the creative community
• 25:38
  because especially a legacy group like us,
• 25:41
  we're well known for connecting with traditional arts and traditional artists.
• 25:46
  And to have an opportunity to convey respect to an entirely new group of
• 25:50
  artists is an incredible opportunity.
• 25:54
  That's really wonderful.
• 25:56
  You mentioned the kind of extraordinary new to file folks for Van
• 26:01
  Gogh.
• 26:02
  What is your approach with managing relationships for folks who didn't come in
• 26:06
  through the traditional performing arts center and instead came in through Blume
• 26:10
  Studios?
• 26:11
  We certainly are embracing them into all of our communications,
• 26:15
  and hopefully they'll come and participate in some of the other things.
• 26:20
  At some point when we catch our breath a bit,
• 26:22
  I think we'll analyze that a little bit more to understand what things people
• 26:26
  have gravitated to. But I'm also okay if they don't,
• 26:31
  for some of these folks, they don't want to be in a permanent seat.
• 26:35
  And so if they just engage with this in these other ways singularly,
• 26:40
  that's fine too.
• 26:42
  That's valuable as well. Absolutely.
• 26:45
  If an organization is interested in pursuing something like Blume Studios,
• 26:50
  but they're just at the beginning of this thought,
• 26:52
  they've seen the work you're doing, they're inspired by that.
• 26:56
  Where should they start?
• 26:58
  I think first of all, my advice to people is just get started with something.
• 27:04
  And particularly when they look at a large scale operation like ours,
• 27:07
  it can be intimidating. That's not what to focus on in the short run.
• 27:12
  I think finding, just based on whatever space you can come up with,
• 27:16
  that may just be a short-term trade, a pop-up of some kind.
• 27:20
  I do think a lot of these experiences have to be outside of our traditional
• 27:24
  venues. If you're going to really reset this,
• 27:27
  then I think having the courage to step outside your traditional venue is really
• 27:31
  critical to this.
• 27:33
  But if people can identify some ideas that they feel passionate about,
• 27:38
  start small and then build from there.
• 27:42
  Just get started with something and learn your way.
• 27:45
  Just try. Let's see what happens.
• 27:48
  So even as we were just talking about that you are so clear in your centering of
• 27:51
  local artists of community in the work that you're doing.
• 27:54
  You and I have talked before about how arts organizations need to understand
• 27:58
  their role in meaningfully shaping cities, not just artistically,
• 28:03
  but quality of life.
• 28:05
  How does that impulse influence how you are operating
• 28:10
  day to day?
• 28:11
  We are an integral part of the team to create strong communities.
• 28:17
  I think that historically performing arts centers have been economic
• 28:21
  drivers, and they've been cultural czars, cultural temples.
• 28:26
  Now we're seeing a role as a community builder.
• 28:30
  There's an entirely new element of placemaking.
• 28:33
  We have an opportunity to make cities more interesting,
• 28:36
  to create neighborhoods that are more vibrant,
• 28:39
  but also to actually be a player in real estate. I mean,
• 28:43
  this is part of my inspiration from Troubadour where they work with developers
• 28:47
  to come in and put their theaters there for a few years,
• 28:50
  but they're designed to be dismantled and moved so that they can actually be
• 28:55
  a really effective partner with a real estate developer who will give them
• 29:00
  space for little or nothing. So yeah,
• 29:02
  there's an entirely different kind of real estate play than what we've seen with
• 29:07
  the traditional performing arts center.
• 29:10
  And I think as you've talked about before,
• 29:12
  shaping new development from the ground up,
• 29:15
  which is a whole other vantage point to this idea of arts as anchor
• 29:19
  institutions. Beyond how are the inroads with different business sectors,
• 29:23
  how are we really working to see a city holistically?
• 29:27
  Do you have a sense of, as you look at Charlotte and the years ahead,
• 29:31
  what that type of partnership might look like?
• 29:34
  I mean,
• 29:34
  clearly we're exploring an entirely different approach where we are with Blume
• 29:39
  Studios and being the first only tenant of a development that's 55 acres,
• 29:44
  that'll be 35 to 50 years.
• 29:46
  And so what we're hoping to see is an entirely new
• 29:51
  piece of real estate for Charlotte where the arts are really infused into it.
• 29:55
  And because we're there first and then can be inspiration and good partners
• 30:00
  with others to follow,
• 30:02
  there's an opportunity for us to help shape that in a very positive way.
• 30:07
  But I'm also really proud of what we're doing,
• 30:09
  particularly with the festival work we've done to push the arts in the
• 30:13
  neighborhoods.
• 30:14
  And that is a part of Charlotte's maturation as a city where
• 30:19
  for a generation or two,
• 30:21
  the focus was on our facilities in the downtown,
• 30:25
  and the downtown needed to be turned around. So that was the proper focus. Now,
• 30:29
  I think there's acknowledgement that we need to look at neighborhoods.
• 30:33
  We need the legacy institutions that are anchors for the regional community,
• 30:38
  but there also needs to be a strong network of neighborhood, local,
• 30:42
  suburban facilities,
• 30:44
  particularly those that are aligned with the needs of families and kids.
• 30:47
  Those have to be close to home. So for Charlotte,
• 30:51
  that is definitely part of our next phase.
• 30:54
  It's clear you have a very collaborative approach,
• 30:57
  very thoughtful in terms of how you intake research,
• 31:00
  but ultimately you are the decision maker on major innovations,
• 31:04
  light Blume studios.
• 31:06
  When you're looking at your leadership style and how that's developed over time,
• 31:11
  how do you balance collaboration with decisive leadership?
• 31:16
  Yeah,
• 31:16
  and whether or not you're talking about leadership within the staff or even
• 31:20
  leadership with the community,
• 31:22
  there is that push pull of how far out ahead do you get with people
• 31:27
  and how far is too far. And I think we always have to balance that.
• 31:31
  I think it was LVJ that said, you can't get so far out ahead of people.
• 31:35
  They don't know who they're following. And so yeah,
• 31:38
  there is always that push pull of being out ahead for your team,
• 31:43
  for the community, but not so far out that they lose sight of that.
• 31:48
  I wish I had perfect advice as to how to do that, but I think intuitively,
• 31:52
  if you're really listening carefully to the community,
• 31:55
  listening carefully to your team,
• 31:57
  you start to get a sense of how far out you can go. I mean,
• 32:02
  the analogy that I try to give with a lot of this is I always want us to be
• 32:06
  reaching for something that's just a tad beyond our grasp.
• 32:10
  Not so far that it's impossible, but not so close.
• 32:13
  It's easily reachable.
• 32:15
  And I think if people can understand that there is that healthy
• 32:20
  quest to always be reaching out just a little bit further
• 32:26
  and have the confidence that you can navigate that,
• 32:30
  that helps lead you to the right solution.
• 32:34
  Well, that ties into wondering what keeps you energized about this work. I mean,
• 32:39
  you're thinking in terms of decades and not seasons,
• 32:41
  particularly with the long range planning you do. So what keeps you motivated?
• 32:46
  What keeps you excited?
• 32:49
  I've been lucky to have this abundant curiosity about life,
• 32:52
  but particularly the arts and this new immersive work has just opened it
• 32:57
  up further that there's even more to be curious about,
• 33:01
  and particularly given the pace of how these things change,
• 33:05
  because I think even more so than what we're used to seeing in the traditional
• 33:08
  arts,
• 33:09
  these are trends and they move fast and trying
• 33:14
  to identify them and when to mobilize and what the timing is of that
• 33:18
  is part of the challenge, but also part of the fun.
• 33:22
  And I think if people can bring abundant curiosity to it,
• 33:26
  it just makes it all the better.
• 33:29
  What's giving you hope for the future of leadership in our field as you're
• 33:33
  watching these transformations happen?
• 33:37
  I can see several generations younger than me that are now entering
• 33:41
  the field that do bring that openness,
• 33:45
  that are willing to look beyond the traditional solutions,
• 33:49
  and I think are ultimately going to service really well because they're not
• 33:52
  hesitant to reach out to entirely new niches of
• 33:57
  audiences that in the past just haven't been part of our world.
• 34:01
  That younger generation of future managers and future leaders to me is part of
• 34:05
  what gives me hope for the future.
• 34:07
  I love that. Well,
• 34:09
  we have come to our quickfire culture section where we love to end every
• 34:14
  episode. So if you'll indulge me,
• 34:17
  what is one piece of culture that you are currently obsessing
• 34:21
  over?
• 34:22
  Oh boy. I'm probably late to the game here,
• 34:26
  but I'm enjoying listening to K-Pop.
• 34:28
  Oh yeah. I mean better late than never on that one.
• 34:31
  It's.
• 34:31
  Great. If you could go back in time,
• 34:34
  what is one performance or live event that you'd love to be present at?
• 34:39
  Well, and this is certainly the flip side to K-Pop,
• 34:42
  but I would love to have been at the first performance of the Magic Flute,
• 34:46
  which is one of my all time favorites. It's such a remarkable score,
• 34:50
  but so playful. But yeah,
• 34:52
  I would love to have been in the room when that was first performed.
• 34:57
  Is there a free resource that you think everyone should avail themselves of?
• 35:02
  Well, of course, CI to Eye,
• 35:05
  which I'm enjoying a lot, and Chair with others.
• 35:09
  Flattery will get you everywhere.
• 35:12
  But among others that are out there,
• 35:14
  I'm a Voracious Freakonomics podcast listener,
• 35:18
  and so that's done a fantastic job of helping open my eyes to all sorts of
• 35:22
  things that I wasn't aware of.
• 35:24
  That's great. And then finally, your CI to Eye moment.
• 35:29
  If you could broadcast one message to other executive directors,
• 35:33
  leadership teams, staff,
• 35:35
  and the boards of Arts organizations, what would that message be?
• 35:41
  Do everything you can to feed your curiosity,
• 35:44
  because I think if you're excited about your own discoveries and things that are
• 35:49
  opening your mind and new experiences,
• 35:52
  then that will translate to other people.
• 35:55
  We can't get people excited about things that we aren't personally excited
• 35:59
  about. And so I think whether or not it's through travel,
• 36:02
  whether it's through other things that allow us to connect with other art
• 36:06
  forms and other experiences,
• 36:09
  finding things that get us jazz that are new to us,
• 36:13
  I think those new experiences mean so much.
• 36:17
  I could not agree more. Stay curious, be curious wherever you are.
• 36:23
  Thank you, Tom. I so appreciate your time and your insights,
• 36:26
  and I look forward to the next opportunity I have to get to chat with you.
• 36:30
  Such a pleasure. Thank you.
• 36:42
  Thank you for listening to CI to Eye with Monica Holt.
• 36:45
  If you enjoyed today's conversation,
• 36:47
  please take a moment to rate us or leave a review.
• 36:50
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• 36:54
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• 36:58
  please click the subscribe button wherever you get your podcasts.
• 37:01
  We've got some pretty incredible episodes coming your way,
• 37:03
  and I wouldn't want you to miss them.
• 37:05
  This episode was edited and produced with Karen McConarty and co-written by
• 37:10
  Karen McConarty and myself, Monica Holt.
• 37:13
  Stephanie Medina and Jess Berube are our incredible designers and video editors.
• 37:18
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