Latest / Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast / Don't Forget the Glue Stick Cap: Little Things, Big Lessons in Tech Integration | Rachelle Dené Poth

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Don't Forget the Glue Stick Cap: Little Things, Big Lessons in Tech Integration | Rachelle Dené Poth · Integrate This! Ed Tech Podcast

0:00
Welcome to Integrate This, your go -to EdTech
0:03
podcast where curiosity meets classroom innovation.
0:07
Join your hosts, David Berner and Jeremy Mikla,
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as we explore the rapidly evolving world of educational
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technology. From game -changing tools to insightful
0:15
conversations with today's top EdTech voices,
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we're here to help educators stay informed, inspired,
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and ready to innovate. So tune in, level up,
0:25
and let's integrate this. and thank you for joining
0:41
us for the Integrate This EdTech podcast. I am
0:43
Jeremy Mikla, and I am joined by co -host David
0:47
Berner. And we are delighted to be joined by
0:50
our special guest here today, whether it's this
0:54
afternoon for us or whenever you're listening
0:56
to this, it could be morning, who knows. We are
0:59
joined by Rochelle Denae -Poth. Rochelle has
1:03
a long history in education, as well as several
1:06
other endeavors that she's been a part of. And
1:08
just, it brings a wealth of knowledge, I think,
1:12
to the spheres of education, education technology,
1:16
and even some other background to that. I kind
1:20
of want us to kick off by, you know, thinking
1:23
about or having you share, you know, kind of
1:26
some of your journey, Rochelle. How did you get
1:29
into the field of education? You know, if you
1:32
want to weave in some of the other detours that
1:36
you've definitely had as part of your experience,
1:40
you know, like give us a little bit about who
1:42
you are, your background. Yeah, so well, thanks
1:45
for having me join you both today. I'm always
1:48
excited to be a guest on a podcast or to have
1:50
guests on my podcast. So I'm going to probably
1:52
have to have both of you on mine as well. And,
1:54
you know, flip the switch a little bit. But yeah,
1:56
so I have. quite an interesting journey throughout
2:00
my career in education, but I will say that I
2:03
didn't always know that I wanted to be a teacher.
2:05
Like when I was in college, I remember, and I've
2:08
told this story quite often, I remember being
2:10
called into my guidance counselor's office, probably
2:13
the start of my junior year. And they said, you
2:16
know, you kind of need to declare a major. And
2:19
I said, but I did. And they said, well, oh, well,
2:22
we don't have it in the paperwork because, you
2:24
know, it was a while ago. they said what is it
2:27
and I said liberal arts and they said that's
2:30
not a major that's like the entire like the school
2:33
of and I said oh yeah I want to major in all
2:35
of it just everything that you offer in that
2:36
school that's what I want to have but I do come
2:39
from a family of educators in varying roles and
2:42
always loved playing school I loved school when
2:43
I was a kid so they suggested that I give education
2:47
a try because I asked them quite frankly, well,
2:49
what am I good at? And it was a little bit of
2:53
a limited list based on my academic performance,
2:56
I call it. I didn't perform poorly, but my strengths
3:00
were in speaking and learning French. And so
3:04
I went into that, graduated, couldn't get a job
3:06
teaching just French. So I substitute taught
3:08
for three years, got my degree in Spanish. Then
3:12
I got a job, full -time teaching, French and
3:14
Spanish. And after about five years of teaching
3:16
full -time, I decided that I wanted to go to
3:19
law school. And fortunately in Pittsburgh, one
3:21
of the two law schools offers an evening program.
3:24
So I joke and say, like students tend to think,
3:27
I was literally living in a school during the
3:30
day and for four years, four nights a week. But
3:33
that was 19 years ago I graduated. I'm still
3:36
an attorney as still an educator. And in that
3:39
time also got a master's degree in instructional
3:41
technology and just got my doctorate last year
3:43
just because I love learning. And the last thing
3:45
that I'll say is I truly would not still be.
3:48
in education doing what I'm doing today had it
3:51
not been for taking that risk and going to law
3:53
school and just seeing the role of an educator
3:56
so differently and the importance of relationships
3:59
and mentoring and it just it really did change
4:02
who I was and who I was for my students. So I'm
4:05
just always looking for more opportunities to
4:07
learn and you know live in school. Well, I don't
4:10
think you should feel too bad about your journey
4:13
and wanting to be a liberal arts major. I did
4:15
have a friend I went to college with, I won't
4:18
say how many years ago, but he took a little
4:21
bit longer route than say I did. And I thought
4:24
my five years was a long time, but my friend
4:27
Matt took eight years. And when he was done,
4:32
he graduated with an elective studies degree.
4:37
So they have created like some sort of route
4:40
that a person could take and they just learn
4:41
a whole bunch of different stuff. And then finally,
4:43
they say, we don't want your money anymore. You
4:45
just need to leave. Oh, my, that's hilarious.
4:49
Oh, and elect. Yeah. OK, good to know. I'd like
4:52
to point that out to people when they they take
4:54
the long, the long approach to to their education
4:57
journey anyway. um but so you you also touched
5:00
on you've kind of gotten into that that you know
5:02
that you've got the background in being a world
5:04
language teacher um you talked about you know
5:07
the exploring the legal profession um but what
5:10
drew you into educational technology and what
5:14
kind of uh led you to explore that and and you
5:17
know if you are watching us you can see that
5:19
Rochelle has a book over her shoulder um that
5:23
is how to teach with AI so I do realize that
5:26
it's an important part of the way that you teach,
5:29
right? It is. And truth be told, the thing that
5:34
has always drawn me into anything related to
5:37
technology was my childhood, just the fascination.
5:40
And we didn't really have a lot. I mean, we had
5:41
technology. We didn't have things like we have
5:43
today, of course. And for me, the course that
5:46
I created and I've taught for like nine years,
5:49
STEAM What's Next to Emerging Technology, For
5:52
eighth graders, it's so fascinating because I
5:54
love seeing what is available to them now at
5:57
their age and think back to when I was their
5:59
age and how different things were, of course,
6:02
back then and share some of my experiences with
6:04
them. But I've always enjoyed technology, the
6:07
benefits and then even. Probably 15 years ago.
6:11
We obviously weren't we weren't one -to -one
6:12
in my school. Not a lot of students had their
6:14
own cell phones So I would take my students into
6:17
the computer lab I would give them a paper print
6:19
out of websites to go to which of course You
6:22
couldn't tell if it was a capital I and L the
6:25
number one or something so they couldn't get
6:26
to the site eventually that worked itself out
6:29
because I was able to share it with them digitally,
6:31
but I've just been fascinated by, you know, in
6:35
my role as a language educator, the different
6:38
ways I can get students to engage with the content
6:40
that they're learning, and what they can use
6:44
or how they can use, I should say, the different
6:45
technologies. And this is even before all of
6:48
the AI to create different projects and products
6:51
of their learning that really gave them a lot
6:53
of choices. And so it helped, I should say it
6:57
has helped me to kind of expand. The way that
7:00
I was teaching for many years like when I was
7:02
in high school in French and then in college
7:05
courses I didn't really have a lot in terms of
7:07
like methodology for teaching practices So a
7:10
lot of what I did when I first started teaching
7:12
was how I had learned as a student I just transfer
7:15
that over my go work for me It's gonna work for
7:17
everybody else and then I soon realized like
7:20
it didn't and then that's when I started bringing
7:22
more technology to my class and and it's not
7:25
always I mean obviously it's not all about the
7:26
tech but Having those different opportunities
7:29
where students learn to about different technologies,
7:32
they build the language skills, which I say to
7:35
them, we need language educators. We need teachers
7:37
in general, but giving them a chance to be creative
7:40
and have fun and attach more meaning to it because
7:43
they've made that choice. So I've just tried
7:45
to amplify that over the years. And then, of
7:47
course, the last three years with Chachi BT and
7:50
all the other great options available with AI,
7:52
helping students to understand how to use them
7:55
to enhance their learning, but also learning
7:58
from them I think is also important, especially
8:00
in my STEAM course too. I like to pretend like
8:03
I don't always know the answer, although sometimes
8:06
in full transparency, I actually don't know the
8:08
answer to a question. So it's fun to be vulnerable
8:11
in that regard with them and let them teach me
8:13
something as well. So I'm just always excited
8:16
to learn more and to do more for students as
8:18
well. And is there any, I just had to ask kind
8:23
of a random question, but is there any connection
8:25
or is there like anything that you've seen as
8:28
you've gone about using these different AI programs,
8:31
when the legal pieces start to come in, what
8:34
are your immediate thoughts or the different
8:36
things that have come up or just popped into
8:38
your mind having that background as well? Yeah,
8:41
so well, one thing that I will say is when Chatch
8:45
VT first came out almost three years ago now,
8:48
There were a lot of people either sending me
8:50
emails, calling me, showing them at my door,
8:53
you name it, text messaging, saying like, it's
8:55
the end of everything. Everybody's going to cheat.
8:57
All the kids are going to copy. You know, we
8:59
don't need teachers or anything. we were able
9:02
to copy and get people to do our homework back
9:03
when I was in school many, many years ago. And
9:06
those were a lot of issues. But then I started
9:08
to look at it from a different perspective because
9:11
of the legal background that I have. And I kind
9:14
of like started to question things a lot more.
9:17
I look more closely at the different tools and
9:19
things I'm using in my classroom. I'm definitely
9:22
more aware of some of the things we need to be
9:24
responsible for if we are using some of these
9:27
tools. Because I think back to 2020 when You
9:31
know, everybody's teaching virtually and you're
9:33
just trying to keep learning going. And all the
9:36
tools are free, right? Everything. Oh, nobody
9:38
has to pay. Well, everybody just started to use
9:41
them because you want to keep students continuing
9:43
to learn or to stay connected if you're using
9:46
some type of collaboration platform or messaging
9:48
system. And I don't know that a lot of people
9:51
actually looked at the privacy policies or anything
9:54
like that back then. We just didn't think about
9:55
it. We were so focused on like, got to keep school
9:58
going, got to stay connected with the kids. And
10:00
then that's kind of the point where I did an
10:02
audit as part of my work, my studies, and just
10:06
was surprised at looking at the last update for
10:09
their privacy policies. And so I've kind of shifted
10:12
a little bit and looked more at, are some of
10:15
these tools, what are they doing with our information?
10:17
And I joke and I say, are you buying, sharing,
10:20
storing, selling? I have this long list with
10:22
our information. And then I also have some examples
10:24
of things that friends, colleagues have said
10:28
that they've used AI and different tools for
10:31
that. I cringe because they don't know that they're
10:35
not supposed to put certain information in. They
10:38
didn't realize they need to check something.
10:39
I mean, there's a lot of other issues, like really
10:41
big issues out there besides just those ones
10:44
that come into play. So my brain has been working
10:48
a little bit over time in the last couple of
10:50
years, just trying to look at all of the angles
10:52
of it and Bring everything together. So for me,
10:55
it's been great because trying to put the, you
10:58
know, the teacher piece with like the consultant
11:00
piece and then the attorney piece and the person
11:02
who loves technology and what can I do with all
11:05
of those that's going to help somebody else,
11:07
especially if somebody else is looking to get
11:09
started with AI and is hesitant or isn't sure
11:12
which tool to begin with. I always want to try
11:15
to know enough. I'm not the expert, but know
11:18
enough that I can help somebody. But it does
11:21
make me look very closely at things. And I joke
11:24
and I say, I love the legalese. I love reading
11:26
all the privacy policies. Like send them my way,
11:28
please. So. You're not throwing any in chat GBT
11:32
now, just a quick go through. Yeah, I have. I
11:37
use chat to be a lot and I will say not for my
11:40
writing for anybody that's listening. I don't
11:42
use it for that. I use it a lot in the training
11:45
that I do in the work with other teachers and
11:47
schools just to test out things. But I have taken
11:51
some policies and sample writing agreements and
11:55
things that I find on different sites. I pull
11:57
out all of the identifiable information. So it's,
11:59
you know, company A or platform B and no. locations
12:03
or anything just to see what it actually says.
12:06
And sometimes it does come back and say, oh,
12:09
this is a very well -written, strong legal foundation.
12:12
Or sometimes it says, here's where it's lacking.
12:15
It has this long list of areas. And there are
12:18
things that I, as a human and as an attorney,
12:21
I recognize as well. Like, oh, yeah, it doesn't
12:24
say anything about this. And I have advised some
12:26
different companies on their policies. But I
12:28
do know that people do go to some of those like
12:32
TachyPT or Gemini or any of the other models
12:34
out there and test it out and I hope that at
12:37
the end of the day if people are using it for
12:39
that purpose because we know everybody's using
12:41
it for something similar that we still kick in
12:44
our own like human intuition and analyze it ourselves
12:48
too. So what do you say to that teacher then
12:50
that like hey I've got this cool thing I want
12:52
to try it out and And I've got the learning objective
12:56
that I started with and I found this tool that
12:58
matches it. So I'm trying to put them in the
13:00
best scenario possible. Not that I just heard
13:02
at a conference about this tool and I got to
13:05
try it, but they've got a great learning target
13:08
and goal in mind. They found a tool that they
13:10
think is going to help them meet that and they
13:12
want to push through and they want to use it
13:14
tomorrow. What do you say to them? Do you tell
13:18
them, no, wait, put the brakes on here. Let's
13:21
dive in and let's see what the legalese and that
13:23
privacy policy says and make sure that it's a
13:26
suitable tool. I do. Because I have a lot of
13:31
several stories of things that didn't really
13:34
go that well for some people initially because
13:38
they dove in without the training or without
13:40
proper guidance. I do ask those questions. I
13:44
mean, my first question is always kind of like,
13:46
OK, well, how is this doing something that's
13:48
different that's going to enhance what you're
13:50
already doing? You know, is it something that
13:52
usually takes you hours upon hours? Are you out
13:56
of a lot of ideas that are kind of unique or
13:58
engaging for your students? And I question the
14:01
why behind it always. And then I say, did you
14:04
look at and I give them a list of a couple of
14:06
different things to see if they looked at it.
14:08
And sometimes they have. They look to see and
14:11
make sure they're in compliance with FERPA, for
14:12
example, or certain. We're not sharing or selling
14:16
your information, but I always like to push back
14:19
on some of those things because about a year,
14:22
a little over a year and a half ago, I think
14:23
at this point, I was speaking in Los Angeles
14:27
at a conference and a woman had said to me, well,
14:31
this platform said we don't use your information.
14:34
Should I trust it? I said, well, no. And she
14:37
said, well, why not? I said, well, You don't
14:39
know what's behind that platform, because if
14:42
they are taking payments, then there's something
14:45
that's collecting the payments, collecting information.
14:47
And does that platform then have access to whatever
14:50
you're putting into it? So it has been kind of
14:53
interesting to have conversations with people
14:56
sometimes. As you look at all these different
14:59
things that you mentioned, you have background
15:02
in different disciplines. Is there anything that
15:06
helps connect some of those, like as you're thinking
15:08
about, you know, you're thinking about education,
15:12
you're thinking about the legal side of things.
15:15
Is there some natural connectors that just happen
15:18
in your mind because of the conversations that
15:20
go on? So like if you're talking about data privacy
15:23
or whatever it might be, does it just kind of
15:25
naturally pop into your mind that like, oh, this
15:28
is something we need to make sure we talk about?
15:31
It does sometimes. And usually that's because
15:35
I've had a conversation with somebody, and I've
15:37
told the story so often, but it was not long
15:41
after ChatGTP came out. And I have a colleague,
15:45
not anybody that I work with, it's somebody that
15:46
works somewhere else in the United States. And
15:49
we don't see each other that often, but we were
15:51
having conversations about ChatGTP. And she kept
15:55
saying, I'm not going to use ChatGTP. And I kept
15:58
correcting her. I'm like, it's GTP. And she said,
16:00
I don't care. I'm not going to use it. I have
16:02
no use for it whatsoever. And She was working
16:05
as a special education coordinator with different
16:08
student information, with IEPs and all of the
16:11
PDFs full of you name it for students over their
16:15
academic career. And so fast forward to that
16:18
summer of 2020, let's see, 2023 now. And we had
16:23
a little meetup virtually. And she said, guess
16:27
what? And I said, what? And she said, I use chat
16:29
GPT. And first I'm like. she got the name right
16:33
and then I said okay well tell me what did you
16:36
use it for and she said well I uploaded the pdf
16:40
of all the information and I'm like uh -huh and
16:44
she said then I asked it to write an IEP for
16:46
fill in the name of the blank or fill in the
16:48
name of the student I should say and I went oh
16:50
you did now And I said, well, I'm going to make
16:53
you a big sandwich. And the sandwich was basically
16:55
like, great, you used it. But then I filled it
16:57
up with all the things that you needed to understand.
17:00
So I always keep that and some other stories
17:03
in mind, whether it's from students that have
17:05
told me when I've been working at schools and
17:08
there have been students there. And they say,
17:10
well, I use it for this. And I'm like, well,
17:12
you don't actually want to use it for that. So.
17:14
those things are always kind of at the front
17:16
of my mind. And when I hear of stories or, you
17:21
know, friends are talking about using something,
17:23
those are always in the back or the front. In
17:25
this case, I should say of my mind. So just in
17:28
case they are going to maybe use it for something,
17:31
then I can kind of say, like, stop them ahead
17:34
of time and be proactive rather than reactive
17:36
for it. Oh, that's neat. I love your sandwich.
17:41
analogy there. In fact, I remember a methods
17:44
professor that I had when I was in college that
17:46
said, okay, you're going to have your first conference
17:48
with parents that are going to show up and they're
17:51
going to want to hear what you have to say about
17:53
their child. And, and he's like, he's like, I'm
17:56
going to give you the foolproof method to make
17:58
it work. And it's, it's the sandwich model. You
18:01
know, you start with something that the student
18:04
does really well, then layer in the things that
18:06
they need to improve upon and then end with something,
18:09
you know, again, and it was, it's been a good
18:12
method. And I can see how you might choose to
18:17
use that with a colleague as well and it would
18:19
have equal success. Yeah, and I didn't think
18:21
about it at the time. It just kind of, that evolved
18:24
and happened naturally as I did that. And I've
18:26
done a lot of sessions over about the last two
18:29
years now, speaking about AI and the law. And
18:32
that is one story that I tell. And whenever I
18:34
tell it in person, I can see people's eyes and
18:38
heads. You could just tell when they start to
18:42
sense where that story is going. But it's a good
18:45
reminder. And I say, you can't fault her because
18:48
there wasn't training, especially not that early
18:51
on. At the end of 2023, I think only 87 % of
18:56
the teachers in the United States had not had
18:57
any training related to AI. during their professional
19:02
development. And that was actually the focus
19:04
of my doctoral work. And so she got her lesson
19:07
on that day. She was a little obviously upset
19:10
by what had happened. But the next question I
19:12
said to her was, so I have to ask you, how many
19:15
times did you do that? Because I knew that she
19:17
didn't just have one student. And fortunately,
19:20
the answer was just that one time. So it kind
19:24
of worked out. All right. Rochelle, I know you've
19:30
got a great background in educational technology,
19:32
and I know it's not entirely AI focused. I want
19:35
to kind of get away from the AI here for a moment,
19:38
or at least if AI is involved, it's supplementally.
19:41
But as a STEM or a STEAM teacher, what's the
19:48
benefit of incorporating some multidisciplinary
19:52
activities that help to tie in the use of technology
19:57
and the students learning the content of different
20:00
disciplines. Yeah, well, I can say, oh, goodness,
20:05
I bet this was probably eight years ago. Now
20:09
it could have been nine, but I got into challenge
20:15
-based learning. project -based learning and
20:18
had my students my eighth grade actually work
20:21
with we worked with their science teacher to
20:24
have them use things that I was teaching them
20:27
in my steam class to connect with the content
20:29
they were learning the science class and kind
20:31
of like put it all together and that was a really
20:34
great experience because they they loved it because
20:37
they had some extra time to work on their projects,
20:41
but not all of the students that were in their
20:43
groups were in my STEAM class. So it was kind
20:45
of, we were trying to find the balance of it,
20:48
but what it focused on was it gave them a chance
20:51
to figure out, you know, different ways to collaborate.
20:54
they ended up being a little bit more creative
20:56
in what they were designing because they were
20:58
using, like in my class, some augmented or virtual
21:01
reality tools that they wanted to. Some of them
21:03
were using some different coding programs or
21:06
tools, you know, digital storytelling or presentations
21:09
that instead of PowerPoint, which they often
21:12
would ask me to use PowerPoint. I'm like, I was
21:14
using disks for PowerPoint, like back in the
21:16
1900s. So we're going to move past this. But
21:19
I love that whenever you have the different courses,
21:24
interdisciplinary or cross -curricular, however
21:26
you want to refer to it, that it builds extra
21:29
relevance and meaning, and they get that extra
21:31
practice with it. And also, the other part of
21:35
it, too, is at least in that case, the students
21:37
in my STEAM class that had been learning about
21:39
some different presentation tools, they were
21:42
working with students who weren't in my class
21:44
who had been using tools like PowerPoint and
21:47
Slides, which nothing wrong with those, but those
21:49
students became really excited about these other
21:52
possibilities for creating and the teachers were
21:55
learning as well. So it really ended up being
21:58
super impactful and beneficial for not just the
22:00
students, but for me and the other teacher in
22:03
that case. And we've done that many times over
22:05
the years. But I just think it opens up so many
22:08
different opportunities and ways for students
22:09
to engage with the content that they're learning
22:11
in different spaces. And they can see the impact
22:15
or the connections in the world around them.
22:18
So you're like you're giving them like agency,
22:20
right? You're giving them the the pathways in
22:22
which they can kind of take the learning that
22:25
there that is taking place and find Whether it
22:28
be an authentic audience for it or whether they
22:30
get to see themselves in the role of being able
22:32
to share Some new tool tip or trick that they
22:36
learn with their peers or or even their their
22:38
teacher Yeah, definitely and the fact that in
22:42
those cases, you know, they could choose how
22:46
they wanted to share their information. And it
22:49
wasn't, I mean, for years I was like, you have
22:51
to do it this way and it has to be this size.
22:53
And then students would turn in something that
22:55
didn't fit into that. model of what I wanted.
22:59
And I'm like, you didn't actually do this right.
23:01
But then I realized, wait a minute, they did
23:03
it a way that made sense to them that they're
23:05
going to remember more. So I need to give them
23:07
more choices. And so once they have that feeling
23:09
of like, ownership in learning, then that increases
23:13
their motivation, which of course we want and
23:15
the engagement in learning. And all of those
23:17
things really then are super beneficial for students.
23:21
You know, like you said, for building student
23:22
agency and learning and designing their own learning
23:24
path is what I'd like to say. sometimes as well.
23:28
Do you think there's any good platforms out there
23:30
that kind of allow students to be able to express
23:33
that voice and choice, you know, in an all -in
23:36
-one place or is it better not to have an all
23:38
-in -one place and let them find their own platform
23:42
or tool to use? Yes and no. Okay. That's like,
23:47
I mean, I don't know, it's like getting in between
23:49
because for me in my classroom, for whether it's
23:53
my Spanish classes or my STEAM course, I would
23:55
always give a bunch of options. Like, you know,
23:58
here's a list of a bunch of different tools or
24:00
here's another suggestion. And then over the
24:03
years, I've added like, or if you have a better
24:05
idea, let's talk or something. And I've had students
24:08
come in and come in with their own ideas that
24:11
I hadn't even thought of. And that was great.
24:13
But then I've also had students who have said
24:15
to me, can you please just tell me what to use?
24:17
Because like so many choices is overwhelming.
24:20
And so sometimes like working with them to give
24:23
them a little bit of like support. along the
24:25
way is also helpful but I do and I have tended
24:29
to use a specific platform like for example in
24:34
Spanish one over the last I don't even know how
24:36
many years at this point after the first maybe
24:39
four weeks of the year where they're just learning
24:41
to introduce themselves talk about friends family
24:43
I have them all collaborate in what is our like
24:47
class period yearbook using book creators. So
24:50
they're learning, building their Spanish skills.
24:53
They're learning how to collaborate in this digital
24:55
space. They're also building digital citizenship
24:57
skills and being mindful of not going onto somebody
25:00
else's page and changing their content. But it's
25:03
something that's interesting and has all these
25:05
other features. And I like them to all develop
25:07
some similar skills. But then after doing something
25:11
like that, then I open up the choices and I might
25:13
say, Okay, if you want to do a podcast if you
25:16
want to make a video if you want to do a skit
25:18
in class And then just see what they come up
25:20
with but it's so that's why I say it's like yes
25:22
and no or it's kind of it's like all of the above
25:24
It depends I vary it throughout the year and
25:28
and I've definitely witnessed some classes and
25:30
maybe even when I was in the classroom was Some
25:33
fatigue that you know if this hot new platform
25:37
comes out. And, you know, I'm thinking of a friend
25:40
of mine, I was just talking with her the other
25:43
day and she was saying, and she's always been
25:46
a big proponent of Pear Deck, and Pear Deck's
25:49
wonderful. But when she shared it with the other
25:53
teachers in her school, and then now all of a
25:55
sudden, every teacher is using Pear Deck, and
25:57
the kids are just getting overwhelmed and fatigued.
26:01
And I'm not saying that it's a problem with Pear
26:03
Deck. I think Pear Deck is wonderful, but it's
26:06
a little overuse because everyone has the same
26:08
thing. Exactly and I have my own students over
26:12
the years have said that because often you know
26:16
I'm trying a lot of different tools in my classroom
26:18
and then I'm sharing them with other teachers
26:19
because in my school we hadn't had a tech coach
26:22
so people would the other teachers would often
26:24
ask me for some ideas or I would do a pd session.
26:28
or even years ago I had some of my students do
26:31
the PD sessions for the teachers. And then the
26:34
students would come in at varying times and say,
26:37
did you tell, you know, Mr. or Mrs. or Ms. and
26:40
then the name about this tool? I'm like, maybe,
26:43
why? And they went, well, now that's all they're
26:46
using or something. And like, thanks a lot. I'm
26:48
like, but you like that game or you like, you
26:51
know, Pear Deck or Nearpod or any of the tools
26:52
that are out there. And they said, we do, but
26:54
we don't want to use them all the time. And I'm
26:56
like, well. you know, it's isn't a nice change
26:59
in that class. But you're right. Like if everybody
27:02
starts using the same thing all the time, then
27:04
it's not like a novelty anymore. It might not
27:07
be as engaging as it once was. Yeah, there's
27:10
a couple of different challenges that are mentioned
27:12
there actually, because you have it's like there
27:15
is no shortage of tools. There are so many tools
27:18
and several different categories of tools that
27:21
we have available to us. But then it's like the
27:24
challenge is sifting through all that to find
27:26
what's going to be the most useful for whatever
27:29
you're working on with students. And then, like
27:31
you just mentioned too, like then you have the
27:33
overuse aspect too. Like, yeah, it was great
27:36
for a time, but if it's, if it's the only thing
27:38
that's used, it loses its novelty, like you said,
27:41
or, you know, you're not incorporating other
27:43
things that could be a benefit as well. So then
27:46
as far as we talked a bit about, you know, students
27:49
and how you use things in education, STEAM, different
27:53
ideas, creating student agency. If you're just
27:56
thinking about yourself, what is it that drives
28:00
you towards a topic to explore? You have your
28:06
hat in so many different areas like we talked
28:07
about earlier. So how do you kind of balance
28:12
all that and figure out what topic to attack?
28:16
That's a great question. I will say that When
28:20
I started using tech more in my class, the reason
28:25
I did that and I've told this story to a lot
28:27
of people, even with AI, no matter what it is,
28:30
I said for me, when I started, I looked at my
28:33
classroom and I noticed that there was this disconnect.
28:36
And this goes back many years ago at this point,
28:38
probably 15 years ago now, I would imagine. And
28:42
I had students who would be absent. They would
28:46
come in while I was teaching and I would be standing
28:48
in front of my room and There's all of a sudden,
28:50
you know, you could feel somebody standing right
28:52
here next to you and they're like, Hi, how was
28:54
absent yesterday? Did I miss anything? You're
28:56
like, no, nothing. We just we took a nap. Now,
28:59
of course, you miss something, but like you didn't
29:01
have the time to tell them or they would come
29:03
in after school. and you weren't there, you were
29:05
in a meeting or something. And so I thought,
29:07
well, there has to be a better way for students
29:10
to be informed or if they're absent, to stay
29:13
connected with them. And so I did like a Google
29:15
search and I found this messaging app. It was
29:18
called Selly, C -E -L -L -Y, which it's not around
29:21
anymore, but I just started with that. And that
29:24
made a huge difference because I could send messages
29:26
to the students, the families could see it. And
29:29
then I started just add one thing at a time.
29:32
When I would identify like a certain need if
29:36
students weren't retaining, you know vocabulary
29:38
or the grammar Whatever it was that I was teaching,
29:40
you know back in 2014 Kahoot came out So I remember
29:44
the first day that I like made all the games
29:46
for the students and I still to this day feel
29:49
like I have Palpitations in my heart from that
29:51
day with how intense they were playing that but
29:54
I always look at either What's going on my classroom
29:58
like our students not? remembering what I'm teaching
30:02
them, do they not seem to be engaged in the learning
30:04
or for me is it something that I've taught so
30:07
many different times in so many different ways
30:09
and I need new ideas then I try to find a tool
30:13
or something or a different strategy even not
30:15
so much even a tool that will hopefully make
30:18
a difference and I try that and go with that
30:21
for a little bit and I always ask students for
30:23
feedback and they are usually pretty honest with
30:27
me and say like oh that was the best idea ever
30:29
or Why did you decide to do that or anything
30:31
in between? But I value that feedback they give
30:35
me because we need that just like students need
30:37
feedback to grow and learn. So I usually use
30:40
that as my guide for deciding when or how to
30:45
use different technology or choose a different
30:47
strategy. And with like learning new technology,
30:53
from what you're saying, I kind of gathering
30:56
like at least some of it is based out of necessity,
31:00
right? There's certain things that come about
31:03
that, okay, now I have to learn or gravitate
31:06
towards this tool because now it's becoming apparent
31:09
that we need to be using it in some way or my
31:12
students are using it. And I know we just talked
31:15
about all the different tools and Jeremy and
31:17
I do tutorials, but it's like, there's no way
31:19
we can ever stay on top of all the different
31:21
tools that are there. So when you're trying to
31:24
learn new technology, Is it solely out of necessity
31:28
or how do you usually approach that with? You
31:31
know when you're teaching and everything. How
31:33
do you do that? Yeah, well for me because of
31:37
the the work I do you know in the classroom out
31:40
of the classroom Anytime I hear I have a long
31:43
list of different things different tools that
31:46
I've read about or even strategies also and I
31:50
tend to just dive in and try something and just
31:53
to get the feedback because since I do go to
31:56
a lot of different conferences or I provide professional
31:58
development, sometimes I walk into a session
32:01
and everybody already knows about that tool.
32:03
I'm like, okay, great. Now I need a backup plan,
32:05
but I'm just, I've always been very curious about
32:09
the possibilities. So that's usually what draws
32:12
me in a lot is just, okay, let me see how this
32:15
works. Get the feedback from the students and
32:17
especially if it's something different that is
32:20
new. There are a lot of, as we know, very similar
32:24
tools that are out there, a lot of game -based
32:26
learning tools, interactive tools. And if I find
32:29
something that's maybe a little bit different,
32:32
then I tend to just dive in and try it because...
32:35
It may not work well for my students in my classroom
32:38
after we go through feedback, but it might be
32:41
something that I can then share an idea with
32:43
one of my colleagues or friends and say, hey,
32:45
you're looking for something new. This might
32:47
actually be better for you than it was for me.
32:49
So I always take advantage of any learning opportunity
32:53
that I can when it comes to technology or just
32:56
any type of different strategy for use in the
32:58
classroom. We know, too, that everybody in the
33:02
ed tech space has a backlog of things that they
33:05
need to check out still, right? It's like you
33:08
have this long list of the things you haven't
33:10
checked out yet and you need to get to them.
33:13
But is there any connections to like with what
33:15
you're doing when you because you do have several
33:18
books. So is that typically does that just naturally
33:21
follow when you're when you're looking at these
33:23
different topics and you're learning these different
33:25
tools? Is that just your opportunity as well
33:27
to write those books because you're kind of deep
33:30
in that? Or how do you do that? Yeah, sometimes
33:35
a little bit like the I should probably backtrack
33:39
before before writing the books. I was writing
33:41
blogs and that was easy. I was just writing about
33:45
what I was doing in my classroom. And I remember
33:49
writing one of the first blogs somebody had asked
33:51
me to write was for a survey monkey. because
33:55
I was doing a presentation at a conference and
33:57
I reached out to them. I said, do you have any
33:58
stickers that you can sense? I could just put
34:00
them on. And they said, sure. Would you mind
34:03
writing a blog? I'm like, OK, that sounds cool.
34:06
I didn't even really know what a blog was. I
34:07
just thought that it sounded like something that
34:09
was cool. But I enjoyed it. I enjoyed writing
34:11
and sharing the ideas about different methods
34:14
or different technologies that I was using in
34:16
my classroom. And that kind of grew over the
34:18
years. And actually, somebody had said to me,
34:21
why don't you write a book? And I said, well,
34:23
what would I write a book about? And they said,
34:26
well, you're using all of these different tools
34:28
and, you know, you're going to conferences with
34:30
students, like you have a lot of material. So
34:32
I thought, okay. And so I just, I did start to
34:36
write the books, different books, but some of
34:38
them have been about things that I have done
34:41
in my classroom. And There are topics that maybe
34:45
educators are looking for some guidance in or
34:48
some different tools or strategies for their
34:50
classroom to kind of mix things up a little bit.
34:52
And so I just sharing my experience in the hopes
34:54
that it gives somebody else an idea that might
34:56
just be like that one idea that they've been
34:58
looking for. So. Part that's part of it. The
35:02
other part of it is I tend to explore topics
35:05
and then I want to learn more about them and
35:09
Maybe it's for a blog or maybe it's for you know
35:11
an idea for a part of a book in the future We'll
35:14
see Then I do a little bit of research and try
35:17
to find out as much as I can and I think about
35:19
oh Is this something that could become part of
35:21
a book or is there a need for this? Because I
35:23
really do enjoy the writing and the researching
35:25
part of it So I'll take every opportunity that
35:27
I can get for it And one of those books, and
35:33
I know we've touched on it, that I mentioned
35:35
that it's over your shoulder if people are watching
35:37
this, in How to Teach AI, and I remember picking
35:41
that up, I think, at a NIST conference a couple
35:43
of years ago, or not this summer, but the summer
35:45
before. Yeah. Or that one would have been Denver,
35:48
maybe. Yes. Yep. And bringing that back and taking
35:53
a look at it. you know, you have one section
35:57
in there that is about the best practices of
35:59
teaching AI. And in it, you list several dos
36:02
and don'ts, you know, and you have, I don't know,
36:06
there's probably 10, 12 different ones for each
36:09
one. But are there a couple that you think if
36:11
you were to, you know, present that to a group
36:15
of teachers tomorrow at a workshop, what are
36:17
the top three don'ts and the top three dos that
36:20
you think you would point out to them? Yeah,
36:22
well, these may be slightly different than in
36:25
the book. That's the thing about putting something
36:28
into writing, right? It's now old. Yeah, and
36:32
it hits the hit the publish button. It is. And
36:35
that's the scary thing about writing about, I
36:39
mean, AI, of course, and other emerging technologies.
36:42
But that is something that I was very conscious
36:44
about when I was writing the book. And ironically,
36:48
I started writing the book years before it came
36:51
out. And fortunately, I stopped because I decided
36:54
to enter the doctoral program because if I didn't,
36:56
I would have missed Chachi Buti and everything
36:58
else. And it would definitely be way outdated
37:00
at this point. But some of the some of the don'ts
37:04
that I say, and this is across the board, it's
37:06
like training. And that is for you know, for
37:10
teachers, for students, to give them guidance
37:12
on how to use the tools first. The other thing
37:15
is make sure, you know, don't dive into using
37:18
a tool as a teacher without looking at, like
37:21
we talked about before, you know, is it in compliance
37:24
with what it needs to be in compliance with?
37:26
Has it been up to date? And not that you have
37:28
to be an attorney to go and read through all
37:30
the legalese, but like look and see, was it updated
37:33
this year, you know, in the last couple of months
37:35
or six months, or was it not? update it since
37:38
2023, because then that's a problem. And then
37:41
another don't is don't just, you know, don't
37:43
use tech just for the sake of using tech is another
37:45
one. Because like, there's other ways to go about,
37:50
you know, giving students opportunities for learning.
37:52
But the do's are one, do embrace some type of
37:57
AI in the classroom. And even with the youngest
38:01
learners, because there's a concern a lot of
38:04
elementary teachers understandably express concern
38:07
that, you know, the over reliance on technology
38:09
or getting students to use technology at such
38:11
a young age and then continuing to be on the
38:14
screens. you don't necessarily want that. But
38:17
there's opportunities to teach about AI that
38:19
don't involve the technology where you're having
38:21
the conversation. So do have moments where you
38:25
involve all students of all grade levels in different
38:28
content areas to talk about AI and learn about
38:30
how to use it. Use it in a way that's going to
38:34
enhance and not replace learning. And I would
38:37
say definitely model for students how to use
38:40
it. I'm gonna add another one too. Like be transparent
38:44
if you are using it because in my class, I had,
38:47
I know about two years ago I told my students,
38:49
here are 10 ideas for a project, seven are mine,
38:53
three are courtesy of ChatGBT. And they could
38:56
actually tell the ones that were not made up
38:59
by me. And they said, you make up some kind of
39:02
bizarre ones sometimes. But they said, these
39:04
ones are really kind of odd, even for you. And
39:07
I went, well, thank you for letting me know that.
39:10
Was that a compliment? I'm not sure. I know,
39:12
I know. I still, even two years out, I'm still
39:15
kind of questioning that one. But I turned it
39:17
right back to them. And I said, Anne, just like
39:19
you were able to tell which ones I use it for,
39:23
teachers can actually tell. when you use tools
39:25
like AI or chat GBT in this case as well. So
39:29
I think, you know, you do have to have fun with
39:31
it. You do have to see the potential in it and
39:33
find some tools that will be beneficial, which
39:36
they're like we've been saying, you know, there's
39:38
so many ones out there. but you don't have to
39:40
use all of them. Find something that's going
39:42
to make a difference in your classroom. If you
39:45
want students to talk with somebody that's a
39:47
famous historical character, that's an option.
39:50
They need a custom tutor, that's an option. Or
39:52
there are so many platforms that have AI embedded
39:54
in them already and have had AI embedded in them
39:57
that you may not even realize that you've already
39:59
been using things with AI for years. It's been
40:03
programmed to do the thing that it does well,
40:05
and life is great. So you have that teacher that's,
40:09
you know, and maybe that teacher's even down
40:10
the hall from you in your building. And that
40:12
teacher knows you're a very tech forward educator
40:15
and that you have no problem with your STEAM
40:18
students integrating technology and having your
40:22
students, you know, use AI in that safe and effective
40:26
ethical manner, right? But that teacher's a little
40:29
more hesitant about that. You know, is there
40:31
something that you can share with them? to get
40:34
them to feel less, I don't know, apprehensive,
40:38
you know, maybe be a little bit more risk forward.
40:42
Yeah, and that you asked me that reminds me of
40:45
a training that I did a few months ago. And I
40:49
remember waiting outside the door of the school
40:51
and it was on AI. And I was speaking with a lovely
40:54
woman who was just just so kind and complimentary
40:57
and everything. But the first or second thing
41:01
that she said after she introduced herself to
41:03
me was just want to let you know, I don't plan
41:06
on using anything with AI at all. I was like,
41:09
OK, so this the next six hours are going to be
41:12
kind of interesting because it's all about AI.
41:16
And I said, OK, well, why? And her reasoning
41:19
was that she she didn't see how it would be of
41:22
benefit to her in her role. And I won't say what
41:26
her role. is, and it's not anybody that I work
41:30
with or anybody in this state for that matter.
41:32
But we walk down the hall together and we're
41:35
doing some activities. And I asked her for something
41:39
that happens in her room that is either a challenge
41:44
or something that she wishes was a little bit
41:47
different. And it's kind of funny. But I but
41:51
her answer was the lids are always left off of
41:55
the glue sticks. And I said, OK, so we're going
41:59
to work with that. And I made a prompt in Chachi
42:02
BT about a lesson and guidelines and some other
42:04
things about like glue sticks. And it really
42:07
quickly generated all of this information for
42:10
use to remind people of how to use glue sticks
42:14
in an appropriate manner, what to do, what not
42:16
to do. It even made the image, although the image
42:18
wasn't perfect, but it was pretty cute. And I
42:22
just watched the face like go from like Oh, whoa,
42:26
wait a minute, you know, because the time had
42:28
been spent trying to think about what to put
42:30
into this room to get the kids to put the lids
42:33
on or the caps on the glue sticks. And that for
42:36
her was a game changer. She's like, I never thought
42:39
of anything like that. Like I was just thinking
42:42
that it was not useful for me, but other people
42:45
could find use in it. And I said, well, there
42:47
you go. And so I shared that with her. And so
42:49
my advice, I always think. You know, there has
42:53
to be something that is either super time consuming
42:56
like as before. It's challenging. You've taught
42:58
it so many times in so many different ways that
43:00
you might even be bored of it and you need some
43:03
new ideas. You need a thought partner. You want
43:05
to run an idea past somebody and there's nobody
43:07
around because you know how the days get in the
43:09
school. You may not even see your neighbor and
43:12
you're in a small school for like a week. You're
43:13
like, oh, hey, you are still here. Like, I haven't
43:16
seen you in a while. And you might just need
43:18
an answer really quickly. mindful that you are
43:21
talking to AI, but something that's going to
43:24
generate some quick ideas, it can be that simple.
43:26
So you can use it for any number of things. And
43:29
even if not professionally, do something fun.
43:31
Personally, I had somebody told me that, you
43:34
know, open up the fridge. I have these ingredients.
43:36
What can I make just to see what the potential
43:38
is? And I had told her. we have to stop thinking
43:43
that it's about us at this point because AI is
43:46
the number one skill on demand and the students
43:49
need to know how to use it and save ethical and
43:51
responsible ways. And we're the people that are
43:53
going to help them to get there. And so even
43:55
if we don't want to give it a big old hug, like
43:58
we still have to be like, okay, I'm acknowledging
44:00
that you are here and you exist. And I'm going
44:03
to do my best to teach my students how to use
44:05
it in a way that's purposeful and safe. Prompt
44:10
engineering still lie at the heart of working
44:12
with AI. And in this deal from your book, clear,
44:16
concise, and specific. Yeah. So that's kind of
44:21
funny. I do say clear, concise, and specific.
44:23
There's lots of frameworks out there, one of
44:26
which was ASAP. And I ask this all the time.
44:30
When I say ASAP, what comes to mind? Do it fast.
44:34
Do it now. You can't take that one like that
44:38
one's been taken. It's as soon as possible and
44:39
you can't take as specific as possible But even
44:43
with me saying concise sometimes you you don't
44:46
want to be concise But you do have to be specific
44:49
and tell it everything that you want because
44:51
if not Then you're going to keep going back and
44:54
back and refining that prompt and end up losing
44:56
time and the research was showing that if you
44:58
don't Craft, you know the art of prompt engineering
45:01
you will end up spending more time than had you
45:03
just done the thing yourself But even though
45:07
I do say that is like. the essence of it. So
45:10
learning to prompt is key. And there are jobs
45:13
for prompt engineers out there as well. And that's
45:16
a growing career field. But in a lot of these
45:18
educational platforms, they have like an outline
45:22
there for you to guide you into that. So it's
45:25
not like you have to actually do it fully on
45:27
your own, depending on the platform that you're
45:29
using. But it's really just about, you know,
45:32
asking the right questions, giving it the right
45:34
information. Saving some time and so i will demo
45:39
that when i do some training and i'll just say
45:41
you know generically like what is artificial
45:43
intelligence then you get this big list or make
45:45
me a lesson plan for ai and by default it might
45:49
be a 50 minute lesson for two days like you don't
45:52
know but if you go in and you say you are teaching
45:56
you know eighth grade students about ai they're
45:58
just starting you give it all of the things uh
46:01
and people laugh when i do this in front of them
46:03
but then it just puts everything out there one
46:07
space, one time without having to go back and
46:09
refine it. So that's why I laugh on it. Not necessarily
46:12
concise, but sometimes you have to really give
46:15
it like, you know, the exact information that
46:17
you want. So I kind of think of it now, and I'm
46:21
very much in favor of, you know, learning the
46:26
the effective methods of prompting, right, so
46:28
that you know then when it's okay to deviate
46:31
from them a little bit when you need to. Especially
46:34
as I've started to use the microphone button
46:37
with, you know, chat GPT or Gemini or whatever,
46:40
and it's more listening to my train of thought.
46:44
But it's interesting how it's still picking up
46:46
on that. stream of consciousness that I'm giving
46:49
it and it's, you know, getting rid of the stuff
46:51
that doesn't matter, that just happens to pop
46:54
into my head. And then it focuses on the things
46:56
that are important for that generated response
46:59
that it's going to come with. So I, you know,
47:02
I hear where you're coming from with that. Thanks.
47:08
As we start to look at the future with AI, what
47:13
is it that you think is the most important thing?
47:16
or things to prep students for, because we know
47:20
that with all the jobs that are, you know, like
47:24
we're on LinkedIn all the time, and there's lots
47:27
of companies now that are, they're AI companies,
47:30
but there's also with every profession and businesses,
47:35
they're all integrating AI in some way. And to
47:39
some degree, it's gonna vary, but it's becoming
47:44
more and more clear that the more you use AI,
47:46
the better off you're going to be as you move
47:49
into a profession because jobs are looking for
47:51
that. So how would you say or what are the things
47:54
that you would list as extremely important for
47:57
preparing students for that future? Yeah, so
48:01
it's I mean, that's the reason we're hearing
48:03
so much about AI literacy and helping students
48:06
understand like what it is, how it works, when
48:09
to use it, why to use it, all of those different
48:11
questions and the potential of it. Also along
48:16
the lines, I'm going to borrow this from Kevin
48:18
Ruse, who is a journalist for columnist for the
48:22
New York Times and wrote a book called Future
48:24
Proof, which is actually over my shoulder here.
48:26
But he was the closing keynote speaker at ISTE
48:30
two years ago. And I had read his book prior
48:34
to I had the opportunity to interview him after
48:36
his keynote about AI and about his book. And
48:40
one thing that he mentioned in it was having
48:42
to shift from media and digital literacy to digital
48:45
discernment, because with all of the different
48:48
generative AI, we can't tell what is real and
48:50
what is not. And being able to actually analyze
48:54
and closely evaluate different things that we're
48:57
seeing images, text, news, audio, video, you
48:59
name it. We have to make sure our students are
49:02
able to do that part of it so that they know
49:05
what is real and what is not. But also. um how
49:08
to like create with it how to use it that's going
49:11
to like i had said before and i say this so often
49:13
too like enhance and not replace because you're
49:16
right like employers there was a survey done
49:19
uh i think almost a year ago and they interviewed
49:21
somewhere around 3 000 different employers from
49:25
over 1 000 different types of uh work sectors
49:28
work areas and about 80 percent of them said
49:32
that Finding potential employees or hiring somebody
49:35
that has skills in AI is like number one on their
49:39
list and that they're going to be using a variety
49:42
of AI tools probably 75 % of the time by the
49:46
year 2028. So it's not something that's going
49:49
away. And so teaching students now as they grow
49:54
from. early all the way up through their senior
49:57
year in high school and beyond into higher education,
50:00
providing opportunities for them to use it and
50:03
to learn how to use it in ways that are appropriate.
50:06
That's not taking their learning away and it's
50:09
not taking away their ability to the critical
50:12
thinking and the creativity and the problem solving.
50:14
Because if you take all the tech away, you still
50:17
need to have those underlying skills or foundational
50:20
skill sets. that you should have developed throughout
50:23
your schooling. And so those are things that
50:26
first come to mind when I think about AI in our
50:30
world as educators, but also in the world itself.
50:34
Yeah, that's really good advice. Is there anything
50:39
that you would say with being an educator yourself
50:41
as well? What are the skills or the mindsets
50:46
that teachers need to have? Because the reality
50:48
is that they already have. a massive amount of
50:52
training. And so learning AI on top of that,
50:55
you know, and also just doing their job of teaching
50:58
content. What is what are some things that they
51:02
can take away that would help them feel better
51:06
about all those different things that they have
51:08
going on? Because it was already busy before
51:11
AI. And now it's you have that too. So maybe
51:14
even if you could touch on like, what's with
51:16
how can they use AI to help with that? process
51:20
because there are so many things they have in
51:22
front of them. And then how can they just learn
51:26
incrementally, you know, as they go throughout
51:28
the year? Yeah, well, one thing I will say to
51:31
like the first thing that you said is, you know,
51:34
I feel like everything comes in waves, you know,
51:36
we had to learn how to teach virtually, and then
51:38
like, okay, kind of got used to this now. And
51:40
then we got chat GPT, and then there's period
51:42
of adjustment. So we definitely have to be like
51:45
adaptable, flexible. Uh, invested in learning.
51:48
Of course we hear lifelong learning all the time
51:51
and not afraid to take risks because we have
51:55
to understand these different changes that we're
51:57
seeing in the world, especially when it comes
51:59
to AI and be prepared to help our students with
52:01
that. So having that mindset that's like, okay,
52:03
I'm going to have to change my plans a little
52:06
bit, or I may not want to do this, but I'm going
52:08
to have to learn because I need to be prepared
52:10
for my students. So that's important. But then
52:13
the other point is in the work that we are doing
52:17
when it comes to AI, fortunately, pretty much
52:21
every platform that you would use is easy to
52:24
navigate. You can use ChatGPT to generate lesson
52:28
plans. Although a lot of people will now say
52:30
like, we don't have to write lesson plans anymore,
52:32
but it's an option. Or you can use any of the
52:35
educational platforms to create something and
52:37
to save time that then is going to give you time
52:39
back with your students. And what I love about
52:41
some of these platforms that are out there I
52:44
mean, I do like a lot of them, and I still have
52:46
many more on that long list we were talking about
52:48
before to go, you know, to delve, as Chachi BT
52:52
would say, delve more deeply into, but just taking
52:55
the time to test things out and see how they
52:59
work, but use it as an opportunity to learn with
53:02
and from the students and find something that
53:04
is maybe teacher -facing and student -facing.
53:07
and see what the impact is on student learning
53:10
and the information that gives you as the teacher
53:13
that you can then, you know, change what you
53:16
were thinking in terms of like the next steps
53:18
in the lesson, better target your instruction.
53:21
I think there's a lot of possibilities that come
53:23
with it. I mean, I say, I say possibilities and
53:26
responsibilities, but always being open to new
53:30
ideas and strategies, because like I said before,
53:33
it's us that we're preparing the students for
53:36
the future. And so even if we aren't so excited
53:39
about some big change that's going to come, we
53:41
know there are always going to be things changing.
53:44
You just have to kind of be open to it and model
53:46
that curiosity for students, because they're
53:50
going to need to be to develop actually those
53:52
same skills that I mentioned of being adaptable
53:54
and being flexible throughout their lives as
53:57
well, because careers will change, technologies
53:59
will change. And so we all have to kind of do
54:03
those same things together in the same space
54:06
at times as we can in our classrooms. start to
54:14
wrap things up here a little bit. I'm gonna put
54:15
you on the spot with being adaptable and flexible
54:19
here. David and I have kind of asked for some
54:23
assistance from an unnamed AI source, but to
54:27
help create some lightning round questions. So
54:30
for these, feel free to give a short blurb or
54:32
answer, or if you feel like expounding upon them
54:35
because you think it's gonna bring up a great
54:37
point, just go right ahead. But we'll do them
54:40
kind of like an alternating style here. Okay.
54:44
So you've written a book about quotes that push
54:47
our thinking. What's one quote that still challenges
54:51
or inspires you today and why? Oh, that's a good
54:56
one. Because you know, that whole book about
54:57
it, there's a funny story about how that book
54:59
came to me. But one, and it's it's an unknown.
55:03
I don't know who wrote it. But it's I am in competition
55:06
with no one but myself. And I've said that to
55:09
students. many many times because they feel like
55:12
everybody's competing and I've Kind of coached
55:16
myself into thinking it's just me and I need
55:19
to do better like for myself To improve each
55:22
day. So that's the first one that comes to mind.
55:26
I Like that one. Thanks If you could have coffee
55:31
with any historical or fictional teacher Educator
55:35
who would it be and what would you talk about?
55:38
Oh my goodness, I I can't pick just one. I have
55:41
two. Go for it. That's fine. So I'm going to
55:44
give you two. OK, so the first one would be Rita
55:46
Pearson, because I think my all -time favorite
55:51
TED Talk about every kid needs a champion. And
55:54
there were so many. And I've used that in some
55:56
of the different keynotes that I've done. And
55:58
just I remember watching that for the first time
56:00
and hearing her stories. And even in my own classroom,
56:03
I remember in part of her talk, she said something
56:05
about a student missed 18. And she said, don't
56:10
look at the negative, look at the fact that you
56:12
got two right and they're on their way. And I
56:14
just like that has stuck with me ever since I've
56:17
watched that. The other one, this goes back a
56:19
little further, would be Jaime Escalante, which
56:23
was the real teacher from the movie Stand and
56:25
Deliver, a movie that my high school calculus
56:28
teacher showed me. And the reason I pick him
56:33
is just because of the methods and how he went
56:35
out and actually like learned about the students
56:38
lives. So what I would talk about with them would
56:41
just be, you know, what led you to have those
56:43
methods and those thoughts and value the relationships
56:47
building with the students initially. And I remember
56:50
that movie also, and I think it was a math teacher
56:52
that I had that also showed it. Yeah, I kind
56:55
of thought that they were trying to be a social
56:56
studies teacher, you know. What's a student moment
57:01
that recently reminded you of why you teach?
57:04
Oh, goodness. I had a student that wrote me,
57:10
well, I've had students over the years write
57:12
me notes and sometimes they don't, you know,
57:16
you never know the impact, but there was a student
57:19
that I had taught. many, many years ago, and
57:22
I had not seen them since they graduated and
57:26
reconnected about a year ago. And they said,
57:30
I never had a chance to tell you this. But even
57:33
though I was only in your class for about four
57:36
weeks of my entire high school career. I always
57:40
enjoyed the fact that you greeted me that we
57:43
could have short conversations and just thought
57:45
you were a very welcoming person. And they said
57:49
also sometimes a bit quirky. I'm like, OK, I
57:52
don't know if that's a compliment or not. I said,
57:54
but I remember you telling me one time that who
57:57
you are today does not define who you are in
58:00
the future. And they said that is something that
58:02
they kept in mind. their entire life. And that
58:07
I think it was two years before I'd seen them,
58:09
they decided to go back to school. And then right
58:12
now they're actually working on getting a master's
58:14
degree. And I thought, wow, you never like you
58:19
really never know. What words what interactions
58:22
are going to make a big difference in a student's
58:24
life? And sometimes there might just be one student
58:26
and you may be the only person That is having
58:29
an interaction with them on a daily basis And
58:31
you might never know what that means to them
58:33
And of course what that means to you as the teacher
58:36
as well because it goes both ways Yeah, absolutely
58:40
But so the next one is what is one tech fad educator
58:45
should stop chasing? Oh goodness That's a tough
58:51
one. I might have to chat GPT and answer to this
58:55
one. Now, I would say stop chasing... This is
59:05
not meant to be mean. I'll say that. Often, and
59:09
myself included, I will hear about... some new
59:12
tool and i will go and spend all kinds of time
59:15
diving into this new tool and forget about other
59:18
things that i've been using my classroom that
59:20
have worked really really well invest too much
59:23
time in that new thing because i heard from somebody
59:26
else that it did something great or amazing and
59:30
i believe them and spent way too much time so
59:33
my recommendation and what i've taught myself
59:35
is go and look at the website and check out and
59:38
see if there's examples or look on social media
59:40
just to get an idea about it and then give it
59:43
some time to think about first before diving
59:45
in because the reason being is it may be something
59:48
that then ends up leading to kind of like an
59:50
overwhelm with the technology like we had spoken
59:52
about earlier for students or families supporting
59:55
them and so I always say like you know be excited
59:59
to try things but maybe hold back a little bit
1:00:01
with maybe releasing it to students or using
1:00:04
it with students. Oh, I think that's great advice.
1:00:07
How about this one? Complete this thought. AI
1:00:10
will make teaching more blank. Interesting. That's
1:00:16
a terrible answer. It's an interesting answer.
1:00:19
It is an interesting answer. No, maybe, I don't
1:00:24
know. I don't want to say more effective, because
1:00:27
we've been able to be effective teachers or personalized
1:00:30
learning for years. So I'm going to stick with
1:00:34
my answer, interesting, because that's what came
1:00:35
to mind first. Sure. All right. And here's our
1:00:40
last one. Which emoji best describes your teaching
1:00:44
style? And my options are, let's see. We think
1:00:52
probably. a face with one eye, like, you know,
1:00:57
with the one with the tongue sticking out, like,
1:00:58
oh, my goodness, like, just things going on everywhere.
1:01:01
And the reason I say that is just because it's,
1:01:05
I mean, with me, what you see is what you get.
1:01:07
So sometimes things might be a little bit of
1:01:09
look like chaos, but there is actually purpose
1:01:12
and underlying purpose involved. But I do like
1:01:14
to have fun with students or with educators that
1:01:17
I'm working with. And so and, you know, laugh
1:01:21
and just Enjoy the moment and so probably something
1:01:24
around that it would definitely be something
1:01:26
involving smile Although if it's a Friday, it
1:01:29
could be you know, a half sleepy smile, maybe
1:01:33
Rochelle just we want to thank you so much for
1:01:36
your time with it's been a great conversation
1:01:39
We've really enjoyed having you on our podcast
1:01:41
You know before we do let you go You know, is
1:01:45
there anything that you have going on that you
1:01:47
want to promote that you want to plug? You know
1:01:50
a new book, a new presentation, a conference
1:01:54
or whatever that you would like to give a little
1:01:57
shout out to? Yeah, so I do have a keynote coming
1:02:01
up in November in Springfield, Illinois. So it's
1:02:06
at IETC. So I'm excited about that. We'll focus
1:02:08
on my Thrive Framework. And I have a book on
1:02:13
the back burner that I need to get back to. And
1:02:16
it's around cybersecurity. So I have those and
1:02:19
some other work with some schools coming up.
1:02:21
Don't know that that pretty much covers it and
1:02:24
Oh podcasting as well. Just like we are here
1:02:26
How can I forget that one? But just keep them
1:02:29
busy with that and my own learning and reading
1:02:32
I've been reading a book for pretty much the
1:02:34
entire summer until now because I think it's
1:02:36
like 600 pages But it's on agentic AI and it's
1:02:40
fascinating. So you can't read it fast You have
1:02:42
to like read a little bit and like process and
1:02:44
think and then test it out. So And where can
1:02:47
people reach you or follow you? I'm very consistent
1:02:52
on a lot of the different platforms. It's my
1:02:55
handle on a lot of them is rdene915 and my blog.
1:03:00
If you put the www in the dot com around that,
1:03:03
you'll find it. And if you want to email me,
1:03:05
just add a Gmail at the end. And I'm also on
1:03:07
LinkedIn as well. Yeah, we'll be sure to link
1:03:11
those in the show notes so that people can reference
1:03:14
them. So once again, just really appreciate having
1:03:18
you. Yeah, I appreciate you both having me on
1:03:20
here as well. It's been a lot of fun Thanks herself.
1:03:23
Thank you Thanks for listening to integrate this
1:03:28
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1:03:30
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1:03:33
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1:03:36
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1:03:39
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1:03:46
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1:03:50
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