Latest / Caught on the Mike... / Suzanna Choffel- musican, songwriter

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Suzanna Choffel- musican, songwriter · Caught on the Mike...

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Disclaimer, the views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entities they represent.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Listener discretion is advised.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Susannah Chopel is an Austin, Texas-based singer songwriter who has just recently released her first album in seven years, Bird by Bird.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Her musical style is a unique melting pot of different styles and influences, but most distinctually defined by her unique voice.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: She was a contestant on season three of The Voice and also had music featured in the documentary film Catfish.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: In this episode, we discussed this trajectory, compare 90s influences, and talk about the vast differences in sharing your art with the world then versus now.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Ladies and gentlemen, this is Caught on the Mike.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Ladies and gentlemen, I've had a little bit of a layoff, I would say about three weeks, but I am back, and this is an exciting episode.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: I am speaking with Susanna Schafel.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: She is from Austin, Texas.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: She has just released an amazing album in September called Bird by Bird.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Susanna, how the heck are you?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: I am doing great.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's a gorgeous day here in Austin, Texas.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: The weather is lovely, and so I am I'm in a good mood.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in a good place.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's golden hour here.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's uh the golden light is like spilling into my studio, and so it's creating a nice, a nice vibe.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: You look like you're in a cave.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: You're like in a in a vampire cave.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of it's got a little bit of everything.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Everything from Randy Macho Man Savage to the Misfits and everything in between.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I love it.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's a reflection of who I am.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: I love the fact that because I was scrolling through your social media today, that you are taking such a positive outlook on life right now.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because it does feel like the world is closing in around everybody.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: It does.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: It does social and sociopolitical unrest.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Usually I'm hands-off on that type of stuff.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, for me personally, I believe wholeheartedly in creating positive content and positive dialogue.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: No matter where anybody comes from, what their sociopolitical status is and what have you.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: So um when I see somebody else creating positive output, I tend to gravitate to them quite a bit.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I'm I'm with you.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like, you know, it's just yeah, it is just a crazy intense time in the world.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: It has been for some time, and doesn't feel like it's get it's like not slowing down.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's just things are just getting more and more intense.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so I feel like the only, you know, we have so little control over a lot of what happens in the larger sphere of political, you know, obviously you can do your part, you can vote, you can show up.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: But there's so much you can't control.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: And what I'm really trying to like just keep remembering is that just focus on the things you can control, try to make the world a better place in your little universe, however small or big it is, and and and hopefully your good energy and love will be contagious and and you know, spread to other people and will positively impact them.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: So without any further ado, why don't you introduce yourself a little bit and let's talk about your origin story and kind of this interesting pathway that you've had into the music industry.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I was born and raised here in Austin, Texas, and was, you know, very musical from the beginning of my life.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, my mom always comments that, you know, she definitely knew I kind of had the music bug, you know.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: I I grew up in a very music-loving family.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: We always had records on, lots of just joyful musical memories.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and neither of them were musicians, but they were both like musically inclined.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so I was just ex I was lucky to be exposed, I think, to a great like record collection.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: And just, you know, they were and they were very supportive.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: They they knew I was, you know, I I think I got I started taking piano lessons when I was like eight or nine, then slowly gravitated towards guitar when I was about 16 or 17.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: And uh once I started, I picked up the guitar, I was like the rest was history, you know.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: I just like really bonded with that instrument.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: I still play piano and I love piano, but um, guitar is kind of my my, you know, uh feels like my soul instrument, you know?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so I let's see, you know, kind of the usual in choir in all the musical things one can be in in high school.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: But I started singing in bands kind of at an early age because Austin has this very unique music community and scene here where they have like teen band opportunities.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of like schools here, like rock schools that that try to foster that.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so I just happened to know a friend who mentioned it to me.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: I went and like auditioned for the band, got in.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so by the age of like 14, I was playing in in bars and clubs here that wasn't really even allowed to get into.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they would have these special all ages shows or whatever.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so there was a great early introduction that really sparked like, okay, yes, this is what I want to do.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so went to college.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: I ended up studying music because I was really intrigued by, you know, really digging into like the theory and the composition and just continuing to kind of expand my musical um wheelhouse, my or what am I trying to say?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: My musical knowledge, my musical world to where uh I went to the school in Santa Fe, New Mexico, and it was very um eclectic.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: It had like a world music program, it had contemporary music, it had classical.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so I feel like that was very, very um impactful on me.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: I gravitated toward the kind of Latin Afro-Cuban group that I was in for a while, but I was also in like, you know, writing folk songs on my guitar.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so all of these things that just started kind of, I just started soaking them up like a sponge.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like I started to develop what would become kind of my sound, you know, which is sort of slightly percussive guitar playing that was very influenced by reggae and Latin, um, but vocals that were kind of more influenced by a little bit of blues and jazz and soul, and then, you know, also elements of of like folk and rock, and and I just loved so many, so many styles.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so I moved back to Austin after college, put a band together, and the rest is history, as they say, started recording albums and and you know, toured and eventually would end up, you know, uh doing some reality TV on the voice, and moved to New York for a while.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: So we can touch on all those things, but that's kind of the the timeline.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and then ended up moving back from New York to here, and I'm still, you know, just continuing to pursue, pursue my career and ended up having a couple kids along the way too.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think you might have heard them in the background for a minute, but I think their dad uh simmered simmered them down.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's the witching hour.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, reading through your bio and listening to your music and the this hybrid of sounds that you've brought together.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: I was thinking about past projects that I've been a part of.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: And being that we're kind of of a similar age, and we spent a good chunk of our teen years in the nineties and thinking about what music was like, specifically in the second half of the nineties, do you think the acceptance of blurring genre lines influenced what you were willing to absorb as influences?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think there is something there is something uh uh interesting about that for sure.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, when I think back to the 90s, I mean, God, yeah, there was so much going on.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I'm trying like, you know, I'll lay out a handful of like concerts I went to, right?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I went to go see Rage Against the Machine with the Roots opening.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: I went to go see Um Cheryl Crow.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, Elliot Smith, um, The Pixies, uh, you know, I unfortunately never got to see Nirvana, but like was super into Nirvana, you know.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: And you're right.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: There was like grunge, hip-hop.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, there was kind of the the female introspective singer-songwriter thing happening with like the Lilith Fair, you know, thing going on.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: And um uh RB.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was super into RB, Lauren Hill and Mary J.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: Blige.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of true.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm there were definitely artists that I would discover later that were outside of that world.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would say, like, like a lot of the global, more global sounds I got into were kind of after that, right?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: And after like my teen years, which I think is probably pretty, pretty normal for most people.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: You're kind of into the pop stuff and the cult, you know, what's what's being shown on MTV or whatever, you know, for part-time.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then slowly you kind of start to go outside that.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: But for sure, I think, I think that probably, you know, no one's ever asked that question.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a really uh great little little um realization, a little light bulb of of the 90s.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: I feel, I don't know about you, but I just feel so lucky.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: I know everybody probably feels lucky to come up in whatever decade they did in their teens, but I just feel like the 90s were, it was just such this like very and it was before social media.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like our we were being influenced by something other than constantly there was no algorithm, you know, pointing us to things.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so just a very different way of of experiencing music and pop culture.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, there is a movie that came out, I think, in 1990 or 1991.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: It had Kiefer Sutherland and um Dennis Hopper in it, and it was called Flashback, and it was about this this hippie or whatever.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, there's this line where Dennis Hopper looks at Kiefer Sutherland and he says, the 90s are gonna make the 60s look like the 50s.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I I you know, I have spent a number of years thinking, you know what, I'm never gonna get nostalgic for the 90s like other people.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: I've gotten nostalgic for their generations.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then it just kind of dawned on me as my my daughter is doing a uh school of rock type program, like you were talking about.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's great.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: And now that she's doing it, they're covering 90 songs, and it was like that night nostalgia just came around and punched me in the face.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I spend a lot of time commiserating with my friends about that decade, and the thing that we've kind of landed on is the 90s was like three decades in one.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can split it up 90 to 93, 94 to 97, and then 97 to 2000.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: And because of how much was happening pop culture-wise, but if you were to throw a blanket over the top of it, it is kind of like the Lollapalooza generation where you could have a bill like I'm my version of Rage Against the Machine and the Roots was Rage Against the Machine in Cypress Hill.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, totally where you would come combine those people on a bill, or like I grew up in Iowa and I would go see Real Big Fish, Goldfinger, and Slipknot on a bill together.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right when Slipknot was a local band, and and it was it was really exciting and very influential on me as a musician, almost to a detriment, because I know successful people tie tend to find their niche and stick to it.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Where I was very similar to you, I was like, I'm trying to find my own sound based on multiple, my multiple different influences.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something that has really stuck out to me about your music, your four albums that are out there.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: The the the text in your biography.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh my gosh, this is so parallel to my musical path because I I've done everything from like rap rock bands to punk rock bands to just the singer-songwriter thing myself, where you know, all of a sudden I discover Jason Isbel and I I I think I want to just write music like that all day long.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I think we're we were very lucky to grow up in that era because it just it there were so many things that were, you know, so many light bulbs going off in our heads, like Beastie Boys and but Fiona Apple, but this and that, you know, and it's just like I I think I did just absorb all of it and just I I just was like, I just want to play good music that like it has is interesting and has, you know, something that draws people in, but like it's true.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you're trying to find your own little special thing, but you know, the more influences you have.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's funny, some people are great at like just staying in their lane and doing exactly what they're doing so well, you know, whether it's like a singer-songwriter type thing or Americana or folk or blues.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: I just, and sometimes I wish I could do that because it's so much easier to market yourself and to, you know, it's been a definitely like a struggle my whole career is like, you know, at bookers asking me or or or you know, um, in interviews and journalists, like, what are you?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: What would describe your your sound?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like what genre are you?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: And luckily we're kind we've pretty much gotten away from that to some extent, right?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, now it's like whatever.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: You can be anything and you can do a million different things, and it does not matter one bit.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but still, it's just it's it is.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: I I sometimes envy my friends who are just like country singer-songwriters or you know, you know, hip-hop artists, you know.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's just easier for them to kind of you can look at them and go, oh, this is this is what they do, you know, this is what they sound like.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: So let's move the clock forward a little bit because um, you know, you mentioned some reality TV, you mentioned some reality programming and such that uh you have been a part of.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: You were on season three of The Voice, which in my opinion, that season was the season that Cassidy Pope won.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: That was kind of the season that really broke the voice.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: It did.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: In my opinion.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I really thought it was on the bubble before that, but that's just yeah.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: No, it was that was a big gear for them.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it also broke what's funny about that season, too, is I feel like so many, not just the winner, but there were like these other like I don't know if you know, if you remember Mel Martinez, Melanie Martinez, like she has become huge, like in a completely different world than Cassidy Pope.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: She's kind of like interesting, weird, artsy cop, right?
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, but she has a cold following.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: My daughter has all of her stuff on vinyl.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my God.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I was good friends with her on the show.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: We actually really bonded.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: She was like, she was in her teens, she was so young, and I it's so funny.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: I felt like the matriarch on the show because I was 32, ancient, you know.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, at least they sort of painted me out to be.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And uh everyone on the show was kind of in their, you know, early 20s and there were a lot of teens.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so I sort of took it upon myself to like sort of slightly mentor or just comfort people who are kind of freaking out, who are younger.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, look, this is one little drop in the span of your career.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: I know this because I have done, not that I had done reality TV before, but I've just I had had lots of opportunities in my career by then to know that like there's not one that's gonna be like the life-changing thing.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, yes, it'll elevate you and it'll do some good things and open doors, but it's not the the be all end all, right?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: The thing that I was going to with that was, you know, moving forward beyond the 90s, the 2000s kind of brought forth a different set of opportunities when you consider things like reality programming and social media.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like I a big advocate saying that MySpace changed the whole game for how people marketed music moving forward.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I run that big theory of mine that I I'm sure people look at me with uh you know cross eyes about is, you know, a lot of people in the music industry say that pirating is what what killed the industry.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: And my counter to that was well, maybe not having a streaming model and not embracing it sooner is what killed the music industry.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of what we were just talking about was the cross-polonization of genres, and I think streaming format, the social media format, the YouTubes of the world, and the reality shows of the world have really made that possible because they they blurred genre lines to a certain degree.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: For sure, for sure.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: I would agree with that.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I mean, reality TV, to I mean, it's funny because I was so hesitant to do that show, but they reached out to my, you know, they do the scouting thing, they do the the open calls, of course, the auditions.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: I never was gonna do that.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: I just was like, I don't know.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't feel like I'm for reality TV.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: But they reached out to my manager and were like, hey, would she like to audition?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, well, if I if I don't have to wait in line and I can just go in and audition, then sure, you know.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I seriously left thinking, they're never gonna have me.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not what they're looking for.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not like super pop, I'm not super country.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that would that's what to me was kind of cool about the show is that they they wanted different artists, they wanted different sounds and different voices, you know.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so even though, you know, in the in the end, they definitely want someone that they can package and market.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's it is the the the pop, you know, big music industry.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it was they were open to that, and I thought that was kind of cool.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and it ended up being, even though it was a weird experience in many ways, and reality TV is just strange, they sometimes get you to say things you don't want to, and this and that.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I I feel like overall I had a pretty positive experience, you know, and I made a lot of great, great friends on that show that I'm still friends with to this day.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my friend Amanda Brown, who she was in the top five or ten that season too.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Just I I almost think she should have won.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: She's just incredible.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: She's a backup singer for Adele now and has been for years.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like so cool to just like see her out with Adele, you know.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: And um, anyway, it's neat to keep up with like all these super talented musicians who, again, that was just one little thing in their in their music career, you know.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, Cassidy Pope, it did big things for her and Mel Martinez, but like for most people, it's just like another little, you know, it opened the door to some new fans, some new opportunities.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: It is interesting to see how the industry has changed and how people have embraced it and how much it's, you know, evolved.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, a lot of naysayers will say that it's gone downhill, but um, I think there's more art out there now than has ever been out there in history, and and it is because of these platforms for sure.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, that is the beauty of it.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's it is a shame that like we haven't quite figured out how to make like the e-commerce, the commerce part of it sort of work in this new way.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: And we're all kind of adjusting and figuring that aspect out, you know, because of streaming, you know.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I I see I on, you know, the socials once a month I'll see like a musician post their um their their paste of the thing, you know, whatever their earnings from from Spotify or from streaming.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it is, it's pretty, it's pretty sad, it's pretty negger.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: However, it's a platform that helps you, you know, helps other people from all over discover you.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think it's pretty amazing.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: At the end of the year, you know, they do that whole like Spotify wrapped or or whatever, and you can see all the stats, right, for your music.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think my favorite part about that, it's not like how many streams I got or this and that.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's to see all the different countries all over the world where your music is, you know, where people are listening to you.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I just think that's amazing, you know, because you certainly could not do that in in the early odds or the late 90s because there was no way of unless you had like management and you were touring constantly and you were on radio everywhere, you know, it was it was really impossible to reach some of these far-off places.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: And now, because of the internet and and YouTube and streaming and everything, you know, um, it's it's pretty incredible.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you're right.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: I everybody's making art in some ways.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like it's made people more creative because they know they can.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: They do have a platform, they do have like a um kind of a box to like to put their stuff in and say, okay, this is me, this is what I do.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: And whereas there would have been a lot of more obstacles beforehand, you know, for someone, a kid in in, you know, Missouri who's just like picked up a guitar and wants to start playing and sharing their songs with the world.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they can now, which is kind of cool, you know.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that's definitely taking the the optimistic viewpoint of it, because you could also view it uh from a pessimistic standpoint and say, like, okay, it's it's easier for people to get dejected because there is so much going on.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's true.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and there's algorithms now, and if you can't unlock the algorithm, you've already lost before you even enter the race.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, exactly.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: So it is it is a little little tougher in that regard, but it's also encouraging.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: I I yeah, I wonder if music to a certain degree, certain degree, or the music business hasn't skipped a generation to a certain extent.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because I see in artists right now, I see a lot of really young artists, and then I see people kind of around our age group, and I I feel like there's a little bit of a gap in there, and I just wonder if that's not due to overstimulation from social media and other things.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: It can be extremely overwhelming.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, okay, so I just went through the process of releasing a new album, and it was my first one in like seven years, something like that.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the pandemic.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: I had a couple kids, you know, it was just like life was happening, and so I was still writing music and I was still playing shows like locally and even touring a little bit, but you You know, it takes a lot to to make an album, right?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: To go and and you know there's the financial aspect, there's just the kind of getting the songs together, there's organizing it, and then there's the releasing it, which is so overwhelming in this new world we're in.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's changed tremendously in seven years.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was like shocked.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: I and I it really, I it really brought me down a few times.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely had to kind of keep some pep talks going and stay positive because it is a little overwhelming.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: You put your stuff out there and it feels like a drop in the ocean, right?
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because everybody is making music and everybody's putting it out there and we're all like competing together.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: But what I have tried to kind of come to um like a place of sort of peace about is what I think that people need to do, what musicians really should focus on is yes, put your stuff out there for the world.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Try to keep pushing it, right?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: It'll live, it'll live out there forever, and you'll have some some great gains here and there.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, sometimes people won't respond to it.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: But just keep working locally too.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, don't forget about your community because your community, like in Austin, we're very lucky.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: We have an incredibly rich music community here, a tight music community.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: All of like musicians support each other and go out to see each other's shows, and um, and there's just tons of music-loving people here, you know, patrons who support the arts.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um, like it, so I just think that there, you kind of it's almost like there's your your community, your local scene, and then the outside, the bigger world where your music lives.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so you just kind of have to like invest in both of them, but don't get too invested in one, if that makes sense.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Or don't you know, like there are some people who and it you whatever, if it makes you happy, if like you just want to like play in your local bar and not release music, that's totally fine.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: But like I think it's very easy to get overwhelmed with this idea of what success is in the first place.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, you look at people's streaming numbers and you start comparing and you look at people's followers, and there's just so many variables.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I would like, you know, I would tell artists, and I often do like younger artists, like, don't forget about working your local music community because those are going to be the people that show up for you and support you regardless of how many streams you have on Spotify, you know?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a reciprocal investment.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I had somebody tell me at one point in time if you want people to invest in you, you have to invest in them first.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um but release strategies are really unusual in this in this modern climate, but they're great that like they've adapted so well.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: I've had several artists on uh on my show that have been in big international touring bands, but now they're kind of like weekend warriors, and they're okay with that.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, we we've got an album in the can, we're gonna release one song at a time, like over the next six months, and then we'll drop drop it as a full collective.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: We only do shows like Wednesday through Sunday, so we can spend the first half of the week with our families, which is totally different than what it was in the late 90s and the early 2000s, kind of bringing this full circle.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: There's and that I think that's really awesome too, is that I think we're also learning as humans that like it's it's not sustainable to do this like all or nothing kind of way, you know.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: There is sort of a a yes and way where it's like, yes, you can you can play your gigs and you can have a family, right?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: You can you can find this kind of nice balance and it's not gonna be perfect, and maybe you won't be like the rock star that you think you are, that you had the vision you had in your mind, right?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you began.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: But um, there's I don't know if you know Eliza Gilkison.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: She's a great singer-songwriter here in Austin.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she she lives in New Mexico now, but she has this beautiful song, um, The Beauty Way.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: And she has, it's all about like, you know, just just, you know, living, living the artist way, living the beauty way.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: And um, there's a line in there that says, the little dream lives, but the big dream dies, you know?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: And like I feel like I've done a little bit of adjusting, like kind of, you know, doing that the past 10 years.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it's okay.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's like one, it's kind of this phase of life, right?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: That you move into where it's like, and and your desires change, you know.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to be gone all the time.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe if I didn't have kids, yes, that maybe that would still be my my big dream, right?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I would be working towards it.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I wanted to have kind of both.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to have like family life and be a mom.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I also want to keep writing my songs.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's something that will always be a part of me.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: My music, I'm just gonna keep doing music.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: No one can stop me from doing it, you know?
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, so you just kind of have to adjust your expectations a little bit and your ideas of success.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: And but it's great because the good thing about it is when you do reach this age, just like you read when you reach any age, you have peers and friends around you who are also going through that.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's not like you're the only one.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: You're not like in it alone, you know?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I'm so I feel very lucky because there's a lot of great mom musicians here, and we're all very supportive of each other, and all we're all just kind of like each other's cheerleaders because we know how hard it is to be a parent and and be doing this, just you know, like many careers.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, anyway, so I think that that I try to take a holistic sort of view of of you know, career success, you know, ideals these days.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: So let's bring it to the present.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: You did just drop this fantastic album, Bird by Bird, on September 27th, and it's your first album in seven years, as you said.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Songs written during crazy times, including a pandemic and navigating parenthood, as you said.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Let's let's talk about the architecture of what went into that album.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I if you look at all the songs, I mean it was funny.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Once we finished the record, I kind of looked at the songs and realized, I'm like, wow, these are really just like all little slices of life of things I was going through that were so intense that everybody was going through.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I started writing the first song for the album was probably my words.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that one was inspired by having a toddler who was walking around babbling all the time and saying adorable things.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I was constantly writing them down or putting them in my notes.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then kind of one night after she went to bed, I realized I'm like, oh my gosh, I have all of these notes of like her words, but I don't have any new my words, right?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, I'm a songwriter and yet I haven't been writing.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so it sort of inspired this the start, you know, the opening, I would say, of really trying to get back to working on songwriting and the craft.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and so there was that.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: There was, yes, then the pandemic happened.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so some of these songs came from feeling extremely disconnected and and and feeling that that loss of joy and desire in life and and just that that lack of human connection.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: And like the song Missing Out is a lot about just us being on our phones and what, you know, just you know, constantly staring at the screens instead of staring at each other and looking to each other for connection.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, that's something that it's not like it's gone away since the pandemic is, you know, the world has opened up.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it it was written during that time because I felt it so intensely, you know, and I know a lot of my friends were too, and um, relationships became tricky and just everything.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: So that the album's a pretty intense, um, you know, but also joyful sort of um capsule, time capsule of this time, this really uh amazing transformative time I was going through of my new identity as a mom now.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, bird by bird, the title track was written, pardon me, for my stepdaughter who I was caring for at the time.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: She was like 18, 17, 18 around the time that I wrote it.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um and now she's, you know, she's full-on adult and out in the world.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: But she was really struggling with a lot of like mental health issues, as a lot of people were.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: That was like, I feel like the the year that mental health started, like, you know, everyone become started becoming aware of it.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so I sat down and and wrote that song one night for her as sort of a mantra.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: And the the irony is that it's kind of been my own personal mantra through the entire process of releasing the album.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like, okay, bird by bird, we'll get through this, right?
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like stone by stone.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it comes from an Anne Lamotte book that I was reading at the time on creative writing called Bird by Bird.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same name.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and she shares this great story about in the introduction of being at the dinner table growing up when she was a kid.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: And her her brother, her teen brother, had like a bird research project that he had put off and procrastinated until the night before.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so he was sort of having a panic attack and freaking out.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: And his dad came up and said, Hey, it's it's okay.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: We're we'll just take it bird by bird, you know?
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just kind of, yeah, about trying not to get so overwhelmed by every single detail um in life.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: If you, if you just take things one step at a time, it's like each step then becomes the next step, then becomes the next step.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of what this album process was like.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Once I had these songs, you know, I reached out to my dear friend David Garza, who um I had been just like a huge fan of in the 90s.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: Talk about the 90s.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like he was like, David had a huge album in the 90s and was kind of a rock star.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then we ended up becoming friends through mutual uh musician friends in like maybe the mid-aughts.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember he came to one of my shows and I was just like freaked out because he was like my hero and he was there watching, but we ended up becoming fast friends and musical kind of um compadres, and and I just love him.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: And he became a dad like right before we made the album.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was really cool because when we went into the studio together, it was I felt like we were on the same page.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, it was like he wasn't trying to push me to do crazy stuff or we weren't doing crazy late nights because we both have kids, you know?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just like we understood.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: We had this mutual understanding of like, let's just make this beautiful album together, but let's do it, you know, in a healthy way.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it was great.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, it was it was really lovely to make make the album with him while he was in that sweet new spot of of fatherhood.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I had kind of come out of of those early years, but was really um just so excited to make to to create art again.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I just felt this new kind of fire uh in me, which I hadn't felt in a while.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: It was really nice to kind of feel that that spark again.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: The craziest thing about coming out of the pandemic, specifically with creatives, is the amount of self-actualization that was the result of it all.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then to come into parenthood around that same time.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: I I often say to a lot of my friends, and I this is gonna sound grim, but if you want to learn a lot about yourself, there's two ways to do it.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: You you either become a parent or you become divorced.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and you learn a lot more about yourself.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now, um, kind of taking it back to that time, you you talked about your your stepdaughter, you know, kind of struggling with the mental health aspects of it.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: I do feel that a huge result of everything we went through during that era is now created this mental health pandemic that we're all becoming more conscious about.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thank God that we're all a lot more uh comfortable talking about this.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're able to talk about it.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: I just love the fact that you had this vehicle through this songwriting to where you could put what you were feeling over that period of time down to wax and share it with the world.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, since it's been out, what has the reaction of your friends and loved ones been so far?
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's been awesome.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone has been so supportive.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: I had a I had a huge relief show here in Austin that was just incredible.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: We did it at this beautiful historic state theater, and I just I had this incredible band and and really went went big with like visuals, you know, and all kinds of cool stuff.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that was an amazing.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: It felt like sort of a the album's coming out party, you know.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: It was just like here it is.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then since then, it's kind of funny.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I was so stressed leading up to the release of it and so anxious, and you know, you just have all these expectations.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: And and then it was almost like once it was released, I was like, I kind of breathed a big sigh of relief and was like, okay, now people will slowly start to digest it.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's no rush, it's just out there.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: People will slowly find it, some some quicker than others because they're already fans of mine.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: Some will come to it slowly.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's been really awesome, kind of organically seen uh, you know, every week, like uh you know, either a new person coming around to it and leaving me a comment or or purchasing it or something, and you know.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then also roll like being able to roll out these songs with the band in my my shows because I play out weekly here in Austin.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's been great to to get to to bring the songs to life every week.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like they're the songs are starting to change now, which always happens once you once you start playing them live, as you know, you know, it's like they become sort of different animals and take on different versions.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's been fun too.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just been great.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: I I've I got a beautiful local response, which was wonderful, you know, some some great great local press.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'm still working on the bigger world as we all are, right?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like it's been great.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: I actually have been really enjoying, you know, one thing that has changed a lot since the last time I released an album is now there's so many podcasts like yours, you know?
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've actually done way more podcasts than I have done, like, you know, interviews for a publication, because like so many publications have folded, you know.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's been really great to have these conversations because they're really in-depth.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not just kind of your typical questions during a kind of a, I don't know, an editorial in a in in like a publication.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you kind of get to go to go a little bit deeper and and and and talk about different things.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's been really fun too, is this new podcast world of connecting with different people who are um, you know, trying to.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: I I mean, I love that like people like you are just like, I just want to talk to people about everything, you know, and and let's just hear some some great because I feel like it's so um, it's so important for people to be able to like put their headphones on and dive into somebody's world, regardless of whether it's music, right?
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, politics or social justice or yeah, all these different facets, medical health stuff.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's pretty amazing that we have this world where we can we can do that and just almost like be a um a fly on the wall to a conversation like this, you know?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's social currency is is really what it is.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: And like kind of going back to my statement, if you want people to invest in you, you gotta invest in them first.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I find, like, for me as a podcaster, I and I I can't speak on behalf of all podcasters, I can just say how I I view it is when somebody does my show, they are giving me the uh greatest gift you can give another person, and that's time.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because once you give somebody your time, you don't get that back.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's more valuable than money.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's so true.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: So as a listener, you're kind of gaining that same sense of currency.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's why people dive into podcasts and dive into YouTube videos more so than they did conventional press, like your spin magazine and your Rolling Stone in the past.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: And there's also something about hearing, hearing, you know, someone's voice, I think, rather than just reading their words.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's I I maybe it's just because I'm an audio person and I love, I just like hearing, you know, the timbre of someone's voice and the the laughter, the this and that, you know, like the the emotion.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I just think it's been it's been really cool to kind of um to be a part of that world.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm also I actually um am a radio DJ here in town.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I I'm a DJ on a radio station.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I love talking to people.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: I love, you know, having conversations, particularly about music.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's just I I really enjoy this.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've it been enjoying this part of like the album rollout is talking to people.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and it's just it's great because everybody always asks you and is curious about something different in your life, you know, and or something, you know, you read the bio, I'm sure like you get you get the artist info and you kind of start diving in and it's like something, something sparks in your brain that doesn't spark in someone else's brain, you know, and it's great.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like I loved the 90s thing we talked about, you know, that was great because like not everybody's gonna bring that up, but there's uh everybody hears something different in everyone's story, right?
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's the beautiful thing about all these different podcasts, you know.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: That was one of the things when I decided I decided to move forward with the podcast because of all my time in the music business.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I have all these great connections, but I don't know what I'm gonna do with them because I'm not gonna make music anymore.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it was like, why not have a podcast?
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I've got people from all walks of life, all different types of industries.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: But the the big thing that I wanted to prove coming out of the pandemic, because that's when I started my show, was that we actually have more in common than we realize in a world that is constantly trying to divide us.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, it's very true.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: Your story, Susanna, is just as important to as Brian Austin Green, who I had on my show a couple of weeks ago, uh, or just as important as my next door neighbor if I were to sit down and record a conversation with him.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think again, that's kind of what people gain from listening to podcasts and listening to an artist's story is that sense of sincerity that they can't get anywhere else.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's that human connection that, you know, that I mean, that's so often why I go out to hear music in the first place, right?
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: Is to not only connect with the band and the music, but there is something about being with all these different people in a room and you don't know anything about them, right?
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: They're all like some of them are strangers, maybe you know some of them, you don't know their political background, their, you know, whatever, all kinds of different preferences and where they come from.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: But you're all sitting there, like enjoying this experience together, you know, and having this shared joy and this, you know, shared sort of cathartic experience.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that is the incredible power of music, you know, that that's really hard to get from any other um uh, you know, art form, really, you know.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it's so in the moment, it's and it's just so unifying, you know.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: So we've discussed the past, we've touched on the present.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about the future.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: What is next in the pipeline for you?
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I am trying to look looking at next year.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to book a bunch of different festivals and maybe get like some small, not even really tours per se, but like some weekend dates.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to get out to LA and New York and um do some stuff kind of on the on the coasts.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I used to go to France a lot and tour there.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: So there's talk of me going back to France, which would be amazing.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: I love France.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so just kind of trying to now expand, like now that I've kind of, you know, I've released the album, kind of done like the local, the local release, within the next, you know, six months to a year, I'm really trying to get to other places where I do have some fans, where I do have some interest, take it there.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then, you know, I mean, I I it's funny, I'm not putting intense pressure on myself to like, you know, write a new album or anything like that.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: But the cool thing is that this has definitely made me um, it's it's like it opened it's opened that world up again to me of like reminding myself, I can do this.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I um, you know, it's it's it's it's like I've I've um I've gotten back into the the gym, right?
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like the muscles have been working.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so I am excited to start creating again.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: I have this beautiful idea of I really want to do like my next album or project.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: I want it to be like some duets or some some kind of collaborations.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I haven't done a ton of that.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: I've done, it's funny, I'm not really a big co-writer.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: I most I write most of my songs just by myself in my little room.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm really trying to to kind of um get motivated to do that more.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've had people ask me about that, and I think I've always been so nervous, like, just like, well, what if they don't like my idea?
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: What if, but I've I've had some great experiences in the last year or two where I have sort of done a co-ride or done a little bit of that to where I'm like, you know what, I I should totally try that because it it's it opens your world up in a certain way.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, here's the thing I feel like sometimes if you don't do that, if you get too stuck in your own way, you risk like kind of staying a little too too much of the same and go going for the same tricks that you know and the same, you know, ideas.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so I really want to challenge myself this next year to collaborate more and and do some duets and some co-writing.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so I have lots of lots of fun ideas on the on the horizon.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: So with everything that you've learned through your time in the music industry and beyond, what's your advice for making the world a better place tomorrow than what it is today?
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I will kind of circle back to um, you know, changing what you can about yourself and in your world to do good.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: Don't I think it's really easy, especially in this world of social media, where we fortunately and unfortunately have access to the horrors of the world, right?
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's so easy to feel kind of powerless and and overwhelmed by it all.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: So when I get a little too in that, in that headspace, I kind of dial it back and go, okay, what what are some things I can do like this week?
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like kind of like you said, tomorrow, today, right now, to make the world a better place.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I can I can take care of myself.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: I can, you know, put myself in a peaceful mode and try not to judge others and and expand my my own um brain to where I'm not just critically judging everyone right away and going to that ugly place.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I can directly, because I'm a parent, I have the great responsibility of then, you know, kind of putting that on my children or teaching that to my children, or or really the best way is to write by example, right?
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Showing my children.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say, you know, just look at look at some things.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: If you are, if you're struggling, if you're feeling down about the world, find something, whether it's writing a song, uh, writing a poem, cooking.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, I've gotten more into cooking lately, and I find it to be so meditative and therapeutic.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, well, this certainly can't be a bad thing.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm making my own food, which is going to nourish my body and my family's body.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it's giving me, I'm not looking at the news, I'm not looking at my phone.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm, you know, it's it's a very in the moment present sort of thing.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say find things like that that you can do that are that are off social media, off the screen, that that take you into yourself and and make you feel good, and and that in turn will make others feel good around you.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it'll just, it'll just uh it's contagious, right?
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: I implore everybody to take Susanna's advice and get off your screens and get off the social media every once in a while.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: But before you do, Susanna, why don't you tell them where they can all find you online?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, before you do, go give me a follow.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: I just get no, I know, I know.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: Believe me, I I I the struggle is real, right?
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: And again, it's amazing because we have all these great podcasts and and music and all these things we can do on our phone.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: So there's so much goodness in it.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yes, just just all in moderation.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um okay, so I am on on socials.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: Generally, I'm at Susanna Schaufell.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, my website, SusannaShofell.com.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, you can find all of my music streaming.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: I have uh I have a bandcamp page, and that you can actually purchase like physical, like vinyl and t-shirts and and and goods that way, which is kind of cool.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're kind of more into the the physical experience, the the new record vinyl is really beautiful and the artwork's beautiful.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, so that's that's all the all the things.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: Susanna Schaufel, just if you Google me, you'll you'll find I love it.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: Me too, Michael.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: I hope we can do this again in the future.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: You were really fun to talk to.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, Susanna, the world's a much better place with you and it, my friend.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, likewise, feelings mutual.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: I want to thank my friend Susanna Schaufell for doing the podcast today.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: That was a fantastic conversation.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: Visit her online, SusannaShoffel.com.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: Check out her new album, Bird by Bird, on your favorite streaming platform as soon as you can.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: And she's got a really cool vinyl version of it that I think you can purchase on her website.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: While you are surfing different websites or social media platforms, make sure you check out www.cotonthemic.com.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure you give Caught on the Mike a follow on your favorite social media platform.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: Subscribe to this podcast on YouTube or whatever podcasting platform you're listening to it from.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate all the support.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: This has been Caught on the Mic with Michael Clark.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Michael Clark.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, thank you.