Latest / SHULCHAN ARUCH YOMI: Own the Halacha in 25 minutes a day! / Yoreh De’ah 228:50-229:1. Vows: Hataras Nedarim: Decree That the People Cannot Tolerate; Partial Annulment

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Yoreh De’ah 228:50-229:1. Vows: Hataras Nedarim: Decree That the People Cannot Tolerate; Partial Annulment · SHULCHAN ARUCH YOMI: Own the Halacha in 25 minutes a day!

• 0:00
  OK, good morning. We are in Hokosundarian.
• 0:02
  We just finished Reischafchaet. We're about to start Reischaf
• 0:04
  Tetch, but I want to just go back to the very to basically
• 0:07
  the last line from the Rama from Si if none, because I don't know
• 0:13
  if we're going to see it again later.
• 0:15
  And it's quite an interesting topic.
• 0:17
  So we'll just cover a few a few things real Bequitzer.
• 0:21
  Some of the a couple of the sources are noted in the in the
• 0:27
  graph on the page. So anyways, what is the Rama
• 0:30
  right, right at the end Kahao Shi gazru karamochi aim hadzibo
• 0:35
  yekholi in la Mudva aim Srikhin Lakaiman.
• 0:38
  So we know there's a there's a so the Gamara explains in a few
• 0:43
  places, some of the more obvious places about Azara LA Mudvab
• 0:49
  Ahmed Olive and and Gamara Shabba stuff Yadala.
• 0:54
  So it talks about that you cannot make a the Khazal, cannot
• 0:59
  make a takana zera, anything that the seabor is not able to
• 1:03
  withstand. First of all, we've been
• 1:05
  speaking about it quite a bit. What's the source?
• 1:07
  There's a few different sukhim that I mentioned that can be the
• 1:09
  source speaks. There's sukhim about these
• 1:14
  hartam or vahidilu between Kadusha and Tara.
• 1:17
  That's one of the sources given. There's Noel P, Yaruka, khamim,
• 1:22
  whatever they tell you to do. Yamim is small.
• 1:24
  That's another common source, the shimrou to make them
• 1:29
  shimerit shimartam in a few places in the Torah it says so
• 1:34
  that's another source. So we see it for Din Tarah that
• 1:37
  where they get their source from.
• 1:39
  Now where do we see that if there's a zera that they can't
• 1:43
  uphold it. So that we see it in a couple of
• 1:45
  gamars. One of them is in Avada Zara.
• 1:48
  So the Gamara discusses is there a Khazal war goes there on
• 1:53
  shaman of going, but the Gumari says over there, but we know
• 1:57
  over there that the Gumari basically did that.
• 2:00
  They said there's still a little research, little survey, and
• 2:03
  they see that the seaboard was not able to uphold it.
• 2:06
  The people were not keeping, so to speak, kosher when it comes
• 2:10
  to the oil of goyim. So therefore they said it's
• 2:14
  smutter and it's not it's not something you have to worry
• 2:17
  about because they weren't able to uphold it.
• 2:20
  It wasn't for the people. They also we have we know by
• 2:26
  Shlomo Hamela, this is the Gemara in Shabbos the Dalek
• 2:31
  speaks about washing hands. So when it comes to washing
• 2:36
  hands, it could be a Matame kochum.
• 2:38
  You have to wash your hands with the mikvah.
• 2:41
  Really that's for kochum. That was the takana from Shlomo
• 2:45
  Hamela. Then later on comes hello and
• 2:49
  Shammai and they were they agreed they were both goes there
• 2:52
  to you have to wash hands with the cup 4 before touching truma.
• 2:58
  Otherwise if you touch truma, it must be burnt.
• 3:02
  But the Gemara says it was a little bit too radical for the
• 3:05
  Jews at the time. They couldn't fathom this
• 3:07
  concept. If you touch truma now we burn
• 3:09
  it so Dinder abundant we're not burning the truma.
• 3:12
  The Jews didn't listen. So therefore the Gemara says it
• 3:15
  wasn't it wasn't called it wasn't.
• 3:20
  Well, it wasn't well, the Gumar doesn't exactly say.
• 3:26
  The gumar doesn't explain exactly.
• 3:28
  I'll, I'll say I'll get to that in a moment.
• 3:30
  The Gumar says it wasn't enough or it didn't.
• 3:34
  No one has to listen to it basically.
• 3:36
  So the Gumar, So the gumar says, So what happened afterwards?
• 3:39
  Base hello and Beit Shamai. So there is a disagreement
• 3:44
  that's interesting. Base hello, disagree with hello.
• 3:45
  But anyways, there's a disagreement.
• 3:47
  What to do? But at the end of the day, it
• 3:50
  was the majority came out that we're making Exerra that you
• 3:54
  have to wash hands for Truma. And so then that's when it
• 3:59
  became call. And only a couple later
• 4:00
  generations did it become call for all of us suck Truma that
• 4:04
  even we have to wash hands on all bread, cooling bread even
• 4:09
  not only for because of Truma. No, wait, that's awesome.
• 4:14
  It's considered one cut of 010 because, Yeah, because if you
• 4:19
  don't, although it's done at a different time.
• 4:22
  OK, good question. So, OK, so that's that's
• 4:26
  basically what happened. But I mentioned that because we
• 4:29
  see from there that if the Bayesian aren't aren't, I mean,
• 4:34
  if the if the Bayesian makes it zero that the people are not
• 4:38
  don't accept they're not able to or they just they don't follow
• 4:41
  it, then it's not. It's not, it's not a so that's
• 4:46
  OK. So here according to the rhombam
• 4:49
  and the Ritva, if they do make such axera, then it's not even
• 4:55
  binding if the C word doesn't accept it, right?
• 4:59
  If it's too difficult for them, then it's even if they right
• 5:02
  before they make the axera, that's the Gemara says you're
• 5:05
  supposed to check if the people could be Yuholi in LA Modibo.
• 5:09
  And if they can't, don't make such axera.
• 5:12
  But the the Ramba maneuvers say, but if they do bake zera and
• 5:17
  they thought, you know, they assume that the people can keep
• 5:20
  it, but then they don't. So then it's not.
• 5:23
  So then it's not call at all. It's Betela never happened.
• 5:27
  It's as if it never happened. I believe toast was in
• 5:30
  Alvarezaro says they have to any they have to annul it and any
• 5:35
  Bayesian can annul it, even a a Bayesian cotton not the same or
• 5:39
  greater, even a smaller cotton Dominion Cochman OK, fine.
• 5:49
  And what happens interesting. The Ramblin writes what
• 5:52
  happened, but but the Ritzvous says La Cotilla, at least if
• 5:55
  it's a it's unclear, but at least if it's a different based
• 5:59
  in a different generation, then they should definitely do at
• 6:02
  least be Movotel and La Cathila so that it doesn't look like
• 6:06
  you're disagreeing with the first based in, but it could be.
• 6:09
  You should always announce it. I mean, you have to announce
• 6:12
  anyway that it's not working or you should.
• 6:14
  But anyways, what happens if the first generation everybody
• 6:18
  accepted it and then the later generations you see that it's
• 6:22
  not being in the people can't keep it anymore, right?
• 6:24
  The first generation, everybody was in a higher level or Les
• 6:27
  Gosh, whatever the case is, everyone is able to keep it.
• 6:30
  Then the next generation they can't.
• 6:32
  So the Rombum writes that you even later generations, you can
• 6:36
  be a Mavotolet. It was Hull, right?
• 6:40
  It was Hull. They made the Xero and everybody
• 6:42
  kept it. But then just because 100 years
• 6:46
  later people can't keep it anymore, it doesn't disappear.
• 6:48
  Lama Freya. But then you could be Mavotolet
• 6:52
  even a lower basin and and the ruling if people aren't keeping
• 6:57
  it. So that may be shy of nowadays
• 7:00
  of certain things. I think that's the main thing I
• 7:03
  wanted to interesting. The Rambam is in Mamring Baez
• 7:09
  Vav and Zine is the main points. I mean, it starts obviously
• 7:13
  before, but those are these are the main points.
• 7:15
  And what's the follows that baby screen that So I think you
• 7:21
  whoever the sewer follows, it's like nowadays, who's going to
• 7:25
  agree that this is Eliyahu or Mashiyah for, for anything.
• 7:28
  It's if it happens, I think it'll, I think it'll be obvious
• 7:33
  one way or another. If it's one little, you know, 1
• 7:36
  little sect that accepts it, or if it's if it's if it's a zero
• 7:40
  that was for all Klais, then you're going to need a, a
• 7:43
  Bayesian that works for all Klais.
• 7:45
  That was one thing. Oh yeah, I just wanted to
• 7:47
  interesting because Purim is coming up.
• 7:49
  So just to just to tie it in or not tie it in is reset the the
• 7:57
  Megillah in Periktet points out that Purim was established or
• 8:02
  Esther pushed for it in the second year more than the first
• 8:06
  year right in the middle of Periktech.
• 8:08
  It says it was in the second year that Purim became
• 8:11
  established. So I was just wondering if it
• 8:14
  had something to do with maybe they needed to test it out for a
• 8:18
  year to see if you see where your holy and lamb would go.
• 8:21
  I I don't think it's relevant. I don't think I didn't see
• 8:24
  anyone discuss that. But that being a reason.
• 8:26
  And I don't think it's, it's not like a difficult there.
• 8:29
  It's a party. So it's a holiday.
• 8:31
  I mean, yeah, you have to spend the day and not work.
• 8:33
  Really listen to the Megillah. I don't think that was the
• 8:36
  reason. Anyways.
• 8:37
  The Gemara does give a couple reasons.
• 8:39
  One is because of it says in the first year they only established
• 8:44
  the Megillah or pouring for Shushan, and then the next year
• 8:48
  they say, you know, hey, this is a great idea, let's do it for
• 8:50
  Klaus all over the other. The Gamar Alsis is another
• 8:54
  reason why and she Esther wanted to enact the Megillah as rice
• 9:00
  have it part of the canonization part of Tanakh and the holiday
• 9:03
  medoras. But the Khazal at the time
• 9:06
  Khamim were not so keen on the idea.
• 9:09
  They wanted to wait because they, they didn't want to.
• 9:13
  Why 'cause they're afraid if you make such a holiday announcing,
• 9:16
  you know, that they, that they, what they did to the, to their
• 9:22
  enemies in Persia or Iran. So therefore it would, it
• 9:26
  wouldn't be good for the Jews. You know, it's like Yaakov
• 9:29
  didn't want his sons antagonize the neighbors.
• 9:32
  It's not a he was upset, right? Yaakov's upset, right?
• 9:34
  His sons would be what happened so shaman and Levy and sham so
• 9:39
  therefore the same idea. They didn't want to antagonize
• 9:42
  the neighbors. They said maybe we shouldn't
• 9:44
  make such a public holiday right, celebrating what happened
• 9:47
  to their neighbors. So they weren't too happy on
• 9:49
  that in front and the other reason why was because they were
• 9:53
  nervous about baltosis. They didn't want to be over
• 9:55
  there there baltosis, but at the end of the day, after a year,
• 9:58
  they finally gave in acquiesce and they they made such a a
• 10:01
  Takana because they you know, they realize it's not baltosis
• 10:04
  because you're you're I mean, we have examples are but some of us
• 10:07
  and this and that that it's as long as you say it's not a
• 10:11
  dentara and you're doing it as a holiday Derabana.
• 10:14
  So you avoid the problem of baltosis.
• 10:17
  And anyway, so that's and that has and they added Matanas.
• 10:24
  That was perhaps only in the second year, I believe.
• 10:29
  Yeah, Sanhedrin, I'm not a history buff, but it was that
• 10:40
  was the Sanhedrin at the time. I'm not exactly sure when they
• 10:43
  moved anyway to Israel. I think all the Jews were in
• 10:46
  pretty much right, but I think so I think it was the Sanhedrin
• 10:54
  and also ballet and makshava also want to point out they they
• 10:59
  do say and they say this also by Hanukkah, the Gamara and
• 11:03
  Hanukkah says it took them a year to be covey of the holiday.
• 11:06
  I don't think the Gamara explains why, right?
• 11:09
  Lashana Harris Lashan and so some of the Bali muster Shabba
• 11:13
  they point out because when you make a holiday for Kalyusa
• 11:17
  Lidoros, you want to make sure that that Kadusha that's hara in
• 11:21
  the day is part of and parcel of that day.
• 11:24
  And it's Kalua from year to year, right?
• 11:26
  Our holidays Kilu famous analogy.
• 11:29
  Few places such as Robdessa and others, the holidays of the
• 11:32
  year. It's view it as kilu, a train, a
• 11:36
  train track that goes around in a circle and every holiday has
• 11:40
  their day on the train track. And you would just every year
• 11:44
  you just keep coming. Every time you go through that
• 11:46
  same holiday, there is that same Kadusha, similar level and some
• 11:51
  level of Kadusha. That was when the holiday
• 11:54
  originally started, whether it was Matantara or Darabana.
• 11:58
  So they just wanted to make sure that the following year they
• 12:00
  felt that same kadusha coming the following year to make sure
• 12:04
  that it's appropriate even to establish for every year.
• 12:08
  And then someone even point out they even felt they started to
• 12:11
  feel that Kedusha already on Yidala and that's how they knew
• 12:15
  for sure that it was appropriate to make Purim A stickle Purim.
• 12:19
  You could read the Megillah already starting from Yidala.
• 12:22
  I don't know just, but that's. OK, well, the question is, is it
• 12:38
  getting more diluted or moral? I don't know.
• 12:40
  Spiral going up. Spiral going down.
• 12:42
  OK, I would like to be going up. OK, let's at least start.
• 12:46
  Raish Kaf Ted Inside Dean Nader, Shahuta Mikzato.
• 12:51
  Omission. Nader, Al Davar, Erhad Shnepa.
• 12:55
  OK, so here we're going to discuss, right?
• 12:59
  Abolishing part of it. OK, let's read inside Neder.
• 13:02
  This is Olive Neder, Shahutar miksato Uttar kulam.
• 13:08
  OK, so if we have a neder and part of it gets undone gets
• 13:14
  muttered, so then the whole thing gets undone together,
• 13:18
  right? We're just talking about normal
• 13:20
  Attaras Nadarian when it's done through Karata PETA or straight
• 13:25
  Karata. But it's generally speaking,
• 13:28
  it's always going all the way near Kara and and when a person
• 13:34
  makes a nadir and Batas quotes like the the Ron and also from
• 13:39
  the Mishalami that when the a person makes a nether, they have
• 13:44
  an the nether goes on everything.
• 13:49
  And it's not a full nether, you know, like we mentioned before,
• 13:52
  similar, you know, two people want to move together and only
• 13:55
  one of them backs out. So now the second guy, he never
• 13:59
  had intention to move all by himself.
• 14:01
  That was part and parcel of the original nether.
• 14:05
  And then you show me quotes kehl how you'd say me P vyasa
• 14:09
  mashmodafka kishikulo kayam or kiyam.
• 14:13
  So therefore it's if you don't have coal, if you're missing the
• 14:15
  whole neder. So then the other part is Patel
• 14:19
  as well. Now keitzad nadar lahitano
• 14:23
  oshilola akho basar. A person makes a Nader to fast
• 14:27
  or Casa vyashua or not to eat something, right?
• 14:32
  Depending on the lashon, if it's really a neder or a shivua
• 14:35
  tonight ET basar zamania dua for a period of time, the irubo
• 14:40
  shabbatot, the Yamim tovim, but Shabbos and Yantov is included
• 14:46
  in that time. Let's say you said a month or a
• 14:47
  year, there's always going to be a Shabbos or a Yantov.
• 14:50
  So then omrimlo ILU natato libashir yamim tovim, if you
• 14:55
  would have realized that when you made this neder that include
• 14:58
  Shabbos and Yantov loita noder, and he wouldn't you, you
• 15:03
  wouldn't have made such a nether, right?
• 15:04
  But hutar. So the whole thing become hakko,
• 15:06
  the whole nether becomes muttu. So not only can you eat on
• 15:10
  Shabbos and Yantov, you could eat now during the week,
• 15:13
  whatever you want, the whole thing, right?
• 15:15
  Generally speaking, when you make a huttara centenarium, it
• 15:17
  goes on the whole nether mahanim almar al khaburat anashim.
• 15:24
  And if so too, if you told a group of people konam shani
• 15:28
  nahenela kukham. So I'm making a right konam is a
• 15:31
  lotion of korban. I'm making kila korban on myself
• 15:34
  that I'm not going to get any benefit from all of you.
• 15:37
  Or if you say I'm not going to get any benefits from you, you
• 15:45
  and you, you, you, you. That's right.
• 15:47
  Now it's without the love. We'll see if it matters.
• 15:49
  So anyways, they're all so then they're all together.
• 15:54
  IM Khuta Ek Mahem who threw coulomb because it was you did
• 15:59
  all three of them at the same time or however many people you
• 16:02
  did them at the same time. So therefore it's it's one Ned,
• 16:05
  they're together. And if you undo part of it in
• 16:08
  Mela, the whole thing falls apart.
• 16:11
  And the shock says Koshakan. If you say and you and you and
• 16:15
  you and so too, if you were to say to this person, this person,
• 16:20
  this person or and and you know for each to this person, I don't
• 16:25
  know. OK, let's go on about IM Amar
• 16:27
  konam shani naina laka konam shani naina laka.
• 16:32
  Now if you make it, the whole sentence is separate sentences
• 16:35
  to each person. He didn't say laka laka laka.
• 16:39
  He said as a konam to you and then you you know, it's like a
• 16:43
  pause and say a konam to you and make a korban neder, right
• 16:48
  selection of a korban, but you're making a neder to the
• 16:50
  next guy. It's in separate sentences to
• 16:53
  each person. So then call ekhad Nader
• 16:56
  liefniatsenos. So you essentially made a
• 16:58
  separate neder for each person. The E Mahutar Ephad lohu threw
• 17:02
  kulam. So if you were to just if you
• 17:04
  were to mature one, it doesn't affect the other 'cause there's
• 17:08
  three separate. That's because you did it on the
• 17:10
  same day or the same same time, one after another.
• 17:14
  It's separate Ulaha Rambam IM amarshini nanet uliza uliza.
• 17:21
  According to the Rambam, if you say to this person and to this
• 17:27
  person and to this person, then he holds the the first hutar
• 17:32
  harishon hutra kulam. If you, if you were did a Hatara
• 17:38
  Sundaram on the first person, then the mail that works for all
• 17:41
  of them because he looks at it as when you said Lazelle.
• 17:45
  It wasn't one unified nether completely.
• 17:51
  It looks at it as every time you said it's like a separate nether
• 17:56
  that you're saying I'm making a nether to you just like the
• 17:59
  first person that we had before. If you're copying and pasting
• 18:03
  from one person to a next person, so then that since you
• 18:07
  attached it to that person, when that person falls apart, it was
• 18:11
  understood from your net there that it was on the same
• 18:13
  parameters as that first person. So when that first person gets
• 18:16
  that Tara, you intended, it should also happen to the
• 18:19
  second. But but because the third one
• 18:27
  was going on the 2nd and the second was going on the 1st when
• 18:31
  you were not, you're the last guy, the third guy, whatever the
• 18:34
  it's just the third guy in our case, but the last person or the
• 18:36
  third person. So then it doesn't affect the
• 18:40
  one, it doesn't matter the 1st or the second guy because the
• 18:43
  first and second guy didn't even know about the third guy.
• 18:46
  The first and second guy had nothing to do with the third
• 18:48
  guy. The person makes it says so then
• 18:55
  sorry. The person makes a corban.
• 19:00
  Sorry. But if a person and if a person
• 19:04
  says I'm not going to get Anna from no, no, right, lazer,
• 19:09
  lazer, lazer, then when the round one, each one is separate
• 19:15
  and you need a an right. So this is different than the
• 19:19
  first opinion here. Everyone needs a separate
• 19:23
  pathak. So the Khatila one should be
• 19:25
  Mahama. That's why he brings it the Yeh
• 19:28
  umrim, the low Armena and neda shutar and Sato and hutar Kulo.
• 19:33
  We normally don't say that if part of it is has ATAR and the
• 19:37
  whole thing falls apart. Ella Kashinita, Ayude, PETA.
• 19:42
  That's only if it's done through the Hatara's done through a
• 19:46
  PETA. Like if you knew about if I tell
• 19:49
  you, if you would, if I if you would have known about Chava
• 19:51
  Senyantev, then it it because it makes it more like it was a
• 19:55
  mistake. Yeah, the Taza elaborates a
• 20:01
  little bit. And it's a little stronger when
• 20:03
  it's a PETA because it when it's a PETA, it cut and notes that
• 20:08
  the whole neder was done a bit taught.
• 20:10
  So it's a little more powerful to undo the whole thing.
• 20:14
  But about Ayede Kharakta. But it's just I'm just sorry, I
• 20:18
  got into this and I just don't want to make this.
• 20:20
  I didn't really, I was upset. I didn't want to make this
• 20:22
  whole. It's Neder.
• 20:23
  I have Kharakta on the whole thing low.
• 20:26
  So for that. It's we don't say Miksat part of
• 20:31
  it. Hutar miksata hutar kulo.
• 20:33
  This Karata is not as it wasn't exactly a mistake.
• 20:37
  You knew what you were doing and you don't really the
• 20:39
  ramifications didn't really bother you.
• 20:42
  There's no real PETA. It's just you just had Karata on
• 20:45
  the whole thing. So it's not as powerful as a
• 20:48
  PETA. OK, the aim, the filo nita
• 20:56
  baharata nami and some say no, that it works on just karata.
• 21:03
  The aim this is if you make the nadar yourself.
• 21:15
  Nadar oh nishiba la havira la pora la sot lo malaka hitch a lo
• 21:20
  havira mixato lohutar hashar the Hua adeni mayush nayam vahuta
• 21:26
  aha. OK, so this is if a person made
• 21:31
  the whole nether and a a normal nether, right?
• 21:36
  With the examples that we gave, for example.
• 21:38
  But if a person makes a nether a shihua that he's going to, he's
• 21:43
  going to pay him back by a certain date or he's going to do
• 21:46
  a certain malacha for him. So then on that a person can't
• 21:54
  just be we learned this before someone else can't do Atara for
• 21:58
  you. You really need to do Atara
• 21:59
  yourself. So as the Taj explains the case
• 22:02
  over here is he says he's Cavalti.
• 22:06
  You know, I I got your money or you did the malafa for me.
• 22:08
  So I'm making you off the hook. So for that aspect, because he's
• 22:13
  not really doing Atara MI Ikara. That's that's not what's
• 22:16
  happening. So it's also Atara and Miksatto
• 22:18
  doesn't is not relevant, but what he does is he's making it
• 22:21
  as if he paid. So he's telling you, you owe me
• 22:25
  $10 to pay by X amount of time. So it says if he's about the
• 22:30
  $5.00. So that works.
• 22:32
  It works for the five and it doesn't.
• 22:35
  And he's still high to pay you on the other five.
• 22:37
  Now doesn't really save you from the Shibuya per SE.
• 22:40
  So it's. I'm not sure what you're
• 22:43
  accomplishing, but that's the idea.