Latest / WoT Spoilers / A Force of Light - The Gathering Storm chapter 37 - EP534

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A Force of Light - The Gathering Storm chapter 37 - EP534 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Anyway, I can talk about dogs all day. I love dogs.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: But let's talk about something else that I can talk
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: about all day, which is real of time.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Truly, we can talk about it all day, all day
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: every day.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Today we get to wipe out Natrum's barrow.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, today we're doing Natural Bear. That's that's today Part one.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: It's it's a lot, Yeah, that's true. That's true. There
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: is the other, the other side of it, which is
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: kind of fun to remember. Like as we're going through
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: the scene, like all right, Grandall's watching this through the
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: eyes of a dove like the whole.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Time and from the other POV and we get to
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: see that. But you know, we I guess we could
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: have incorporated that into this chapter. But we didn't really
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: think about doing that ahead of time, did we.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: It's not necessary, don't I don't. I don't think so.
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: Because yeah, I don't. I don't feel like that really
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: we can we can bring in that information ahead of time.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: We know what's going on.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fun. It's it's you think the scene is
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: one and done. Like we were all convinced that Grandall
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: was dead. There was no reason for us not to
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: think Randa was ever didn't see a body, but like
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: rand did, it does really good test. And then Brandon
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Sanders did with the old switch Aaroo in a whole
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: other book. So I didn't think we needed to blend
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: those chapters together, but it is definitely worth remembering Grandall's
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: watching all of.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: This go down, right, because that's not until the next book,
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Towers of Midnight, in the prologue right that we get
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: this other POV. So there's a whole like, there's a
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: gap right where people didn't know. I was looking, Yeah,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: very much so looking at Encyclopedia Watt. And they've got
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: a footnote that's clearly written in between the two books
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: because it says this event comes as a particular shock
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: to a certain fan segment. Rober Jordan and Brandon Sanderson
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: promised to resolve the murders of Asian in the final books.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: For those who believe Grendall was a culprit. They're stuck
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: with two difficult options. Either they are wrong or there
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: will have to be some very creative writing to make
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: the disclosure. And then it's like, oh, and we learn
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: more in towersan Bannick prologue where there's some very creative
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: writing to make it look like Grendall didn't die. Yeah.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, But before we get into all that, we have
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: some patreons to think and some errata to cover. Rata,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: which do you want to do first? Yes, we have errata.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: It's not really errata so much as just a a citation.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: This is from Chuck p regarding the sword Justice. Brandon
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Sanderson does consider that sword to be his own personal cameo.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: There is a link from theory Land. It's you were
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: not making that up. That is very much what happened.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Wilson told Brandon Sanderson to pick out something from RJ's
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: weapon collection. Samson picked out the sword and then wrote
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: its description into the books as Justice. I will be
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: providing a link to that episode snip in the show
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: notes because theory Land rules, right.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: I know I've read that somewhere multiple times. But uh yeah,
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: you know, yeah, citation needed brain.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, So let less errata and more just backing
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: you up. You were correct about that, That is the thing.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: The other thing also about Justice, this is from a Nava,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: is that Justice is the sword Rand gives to Tam
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: for the last battle. Tam takes Justice. He does not
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: take Justice into the cave of the shale gool the
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: bore all that tam takes Justice off to wallop some trolicks.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: All right, so then what are the two swords that Rand.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Has, Calendar and Laman's sword.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, so Calendar is the second sword. I thought
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: he had two swords and calendar, but that makes more sense.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's only got two hands, even before losing the
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: one hand, he wouldn't need three. Yeah, So thank you
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: very much to people chiming into discord to provide those
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: pieces of information. I really appreciate being kept on the
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: straight and narrow with the facts.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's always helpful. Because as much as I thought
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: that at the end of this podcast, I would remember
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: everything that I podcasted about and I would know everything
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: there is to know about this series, I've already forgotten
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: so much. It's amazing time and just yeah, it's you
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: cannot keep this all in your head at once. I
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: don't think it's possible for one person to remember. Even
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: Maria Simmons, who might be the one person who knows
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: more about the series than anybody else, goes I you know,
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: I don't remember that series scene.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I used to think it would be possible
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: to memorize everything about Wheel of Time, and I'm convinced
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: now having met Maria multiple times, talked with so many fans,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: done this podcast. Nope, No, it's literally impossible to know
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: everything about the series at one time. You can know
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: a subsection at any one time, and it takes a
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: team of people to get anything accurately down the road.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: And references, lots of references.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Oh so many references. It's it's a team effort. It's
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: a team effort because you need it to be. Robert
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: Jordan made no claims of not needing a team. Why
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: would any of the rest of us be able.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: To Speaking of team efforts, once again, a huge shout out.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Thank you to our patreons, all past, present and future patreons.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: If you know who you are, come on, get with
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: it already. Indeed, so I think last time we think
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: folks was in late February, So we've only gone you know,
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: two full months, almost three without going, which seems to
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: be about our average. Every two to three months we
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: seem to get on patreons, which is about right.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's thank these people. It looks like some of
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: these people might be coming back, but hey, you came back.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: It does look like yeah, it looks like you came back.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: I'm not really sure. Sometimes the Patreon feed, I give
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: it filters and it gets a little weird, and so
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: I don't want to I don't want to exclude anybody,
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: just in case I missed one big donation and they're
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: giving small donations stuff like that. I don't know how
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: things get weird.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, counting is weird, but what's not weird is us
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: reading your names on air. That's not weird. No, so
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: we're going to do that now.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Exactly we really fuck it up, then it gets a
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: little weird.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: I guess all right, I'll go first. The first name
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: we would like to thank is Laura Law. Nice alliterative
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: name there, Thank you very much.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: And following the literative theme, we have Christy Keene. Thank you, Christy.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Thank you Christy. I recognized your name from the social
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: media sphere when I occasionally poke my head in.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: And both of you may have been giving for some time.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: Just not sure if we thank you before.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Next, we have Oh here's a fun name, elm
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: chanted instead of enchanted, elm enchanted like elm.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: Tree that's a good druid name.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's an excellent thing. So thank
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: you very much elam Chanted for having a cool name
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: and for being a Patreon.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: And then we've got some reverse alliteration here with Patrick
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: Wallbank because it's it. They both end with k.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, because it was ending k nice. You're stretching a
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: little bit, but I like it.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: I'm stretching hard. I'm stretching hard.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you very much, Patrick Wallbank.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: You gotta loosen those muscles up before the actual episode, right,
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: this is true.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: That's what twenty minutes of I've gotten too.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: Is that why we're starting an hour late?
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: Maybe? Maybe? But thank you very much to all the Patreons.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: We really really appreciate you. It really is a vote
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: of confidence as well as covering the overhead and the
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: labor cost of making this.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: All Right, with that, I think we are ready to
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: get into the bail firing of Natran's barrow.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: And exactly what is a bail scream? Because man, this
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: doesn't feel like the same thing that the parent and
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: ffieel felt, but so similar.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: And also what does dead forever mean if not dead forever?
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: Oh? My god. Okay, that's where I think Brandon got
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: it fucking wrong.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so we've got a bit to get into, or.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: We can head canon the characters are wrong about the facts.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: Either way, we are now going to start chapter thirty seven.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: A force of light and our symbol is the dragon.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Min sat quietly watching Rand dress. His motions were tense
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: and careful, like the steps of a performer walking the
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: high rope at a menagerie. He did up the left
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: cuff on his crisp white shirt with slow, deliberate fingers.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: The right cuff was already done up. His servants saw
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: to that. It was approaching evening outside, not quite dark yet,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: though the shutters were closed in preparation. Rand reached for
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: a golden black coat, sliding on one sleeve, then the other.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Then did the buttons, one after another. He had no
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: trouble with these, He was growing practiced at working with
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: only one hand. Button after button, first, second, third, fourth.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: Men felt like screaming, Yeah, there we go. As there's
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: a lot of pent up anxiety in her this entire chapter. Honestly,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: she kind of feels like she's on the verge of screaming.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: The whole chapter we're in her POV. The whole chapter
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: is she's just tense.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Well, and this is sort of the bruises still haven't
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: healed on her neck from the strangling. She sees herself
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: as the weak point. She thought she was going to
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: be this final defense of Rand. I'm going to be
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: the one who protects him when everything else fails. I'll
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: whip out my knives and do the thing. And instead
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: I was his weakness. And meanwhile he's just giving her
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: the cold shoulder because he thinks she hates him now right,
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: And so the two of them are doing a classic
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: Watt no communication relationship, or neither one of them talks
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: about how they're actually feeling. They just make assumptions and
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: act on those assumptions, which is how you know rumors
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: fade to myth. So this is, yeah, it's bad.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: And that's also part of the reason why she's retreating
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: to just reading in the corner all the time and
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: making some people think that she's a sexy lamp is
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: because that's all she feels safe doing anymore, is just
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: studying as hard as she can and not getting in
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: the way.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: No, and they're getting each other through the water bond
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: the feelings, but they're they get the feelings right, but
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: they're misinterpreting the reasons for them right right.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Just like paren and his smelling of emotions, he's not
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: smelling the context and the thoughts, He's just smelling the emotion.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Worst EmPATH ever.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And also like Rand is already shoving down all
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: his frustration with the sean Chan, and Min is here
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: in this conversation being like you want to talk about it.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: He's like, no, emotions are pointless. I just have to
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: deal with the fact that everything's ruined and terrible. And
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: it's like, dude, eat a snickers. You're so not yourself
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: when you're angry.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: You're so not yourself after killing a bunch of women. Jesus.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, he literally says, frustration is pointless, anger is pointless.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Neither emotion will change the facts. And the fact is
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: I have no more time to waste on the shon chan.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: He's just he's attempting to move on so fast. He's
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: trying to move on from hurting men. Her bruises haven't healed.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: He's already trying to move on from the shon chan failure.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: That's like they've barely packed up their pavilion. At this point,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: he's already trying to act like it doesn't matter. It's just, yeah,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: it's a lot.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: So this is what happens when you realize that the
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: deadline for the test is tomorrow and you've wasted all semester,
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: or the deadline for the project is tomorrow and you've
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: wasted all semester, and they're like, hey, your experiment failure.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: Like fine, moving on, Okay, that one didn't work. We
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: can't we don't have time to set it up again.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: We're done. Yeah, it's just like what's next. Like he's
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: trying to hit all of the high points he needs
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: to hit because the last battle is literally, you know,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: a couple of weeks away, and he's like, I need
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: to finish up conquering half the continent in a couple
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: of weeks. I don't what the I guess I'll make
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: a truce that didn't work. I guess I'm just gonna
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: risk going to battle with them at my back and
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: hope for the best, Which.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Like, what a wild assumption that the shawn Chan are
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: going to be essentially on the side of the dark
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: one just by virtue of not having an alliance like, damn.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Dude, I mean it's it's not so much like on
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: the side of the dark one as enemy of my enemy, right,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: Like what if the shawn Chan just used the last
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: battle as a chance to gobble up more Land because
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: all the armies are going to be gone?
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: Which again, I'm just like, you have to be a
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: real shitty empire for people to figure that you might
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: not come in during the apocalypse, that you might just
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: be busy doing conquest while everyone else is fighting literal satan.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Like your reputation needs some work. Sean Shan So, I
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: would like.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: To talk about World War two and the timing in
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: which America joined the battle against the Nazis, and how
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: long it took us to join that battle, and how
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: much we attribute ourselves to winning the battle despite the
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: people who fought and suffered for three four years before
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: the US joined it. I'm not really sure on the
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: timing of that. My history is not that good.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: No, they really are the Americans, They really really are
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: the Americans.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Why do I hate America because I that's why.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I've spent any time at all looking into
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: the history of my country.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: God, it's worse when you look into the history of Portland,
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, liberal West coast city, and
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: then you forgot about what its people before nineteen fifty
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: and you go, oh no.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: Oh the history of Oregon.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: It's bad. It's bad.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, now we're we're both fiercely progressive and also the
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: only state that entered the Union with a whites only clause.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: Like it's we were really trying to have it more.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: It's oh, no, you're right, it's it's a little very performative.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: But I mean, you try. I don't know what else
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: to do other than try, Right, you don't.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: Call people out in a way that actually causes real
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: risk to you yourself, like actually risk things to change
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: the status quo rather than folding. But that's neither here
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: nor there. Yes, the legend, Please, I'm not layers fucked.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: You guys, Like, it's two o'clock. We've we've indulged you
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: for an hour. It's time get to the fucking book.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: None of this is going in the episode, thank you. Okay. So,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: also in the early part of the chapter, men had
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: some visions and I feel like I really do need
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: to emphasize this is a min chapter. Yes, this is
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: a min chapter. We just had a basically Varren chapter.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Even though it was not Varren's POV, it was still
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: a Varre and focus chapter. This is not only a
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: min chapter. This is a min POV chapter. It's very cool.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: We're in men's head.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: This is a much more detailed vision than we normally get, right, Like,
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: I feel like it's got Often we get a single image, right,
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: or a single sentence to describe what she's seeing. Here,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: we get yeah, very allegorical. Right here, we get this
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: very detailed picture of Dragon Mount.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's a new vision to her. She mentions
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: that this is a new vision, and it's very much
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: the build up to Veins of Gold. It's the storm
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: before the light. It'd even in classic Sanderson fashion, he
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: hammers it home by ending the whole description with Dragon
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: Mount in shadows. It would be important to Rand, was
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: that a tiny prick of light on top of the mountain?
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Like he he couldn't leave any of it to doubt.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: He had to lay it all the way out. But
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: he basically describes a vision that is the storm and
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: the veins of Gold.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: Right, absolutely, storm.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: He just describes that's She's saying, Oh, Rand's about to
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: hit his breaking point. It's about to happen, that's what
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: this vision is.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: No, and like just like until I run read the
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: clouds are higher than the mountain, which is just like
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: very unusual, right, all the times we've seen it before,
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: the clouds, the mountain peak is above the clouds.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Yes, and that's important. That's important, that the mountain itself
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: is drowning in the clouds of this gathering storm. Like,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: that's bad. That's a really tall mountain. It's Randa's a demigod.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: He's not supposed to get brought down.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: You know, he's not of this earth. He's above the clouds.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: He lives in his when he sits upon the peak
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: of the mountain, that's above the clouds. Because that's a
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: different realm.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Except maybe it's not now. Maybe things are breaking down
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: enough that that's not true anymore.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: And once again we think she goes off about this
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: for a while. Such a strange weapon those scholars found
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: beneath the submerged statue, the sword felt so old was
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: when Rand wearing it as a symbol of something I
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: don't I mean again, you just said it was the
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Sanderson self insert Basically.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's very very clear about that. I don't know
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: why he needed to bring underwater archaeology into it, but
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: there we are. Yeah, this is where she thinks about
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: she was dedicating more and more time to her studies
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: read being a sexy lamp in some people's eyes, partly
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: because she felt red stanse of urgency and partly because
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: she didn't know what else to do. It's a trauma response,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: have we? How many who amongst us has not hidden
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: in a wall of books as a trauma?
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: Never? Why I never just watched Knives Out again for
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: the last night.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: I have not watched it, but I feel like I would.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: Enjoy an excellent, excellent movie. I highly recommend it.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so, she wonders if Rand is writing to battle
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: and literally on the next page, Rand tells the Maidens,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: I go to battle. So yes, yes, man, he is
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: going to battle. That's a thank you Sanderson, thank you
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: for making that, laying that up and then taking it.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: And then yeah, basically, Min asks, so you're going after Grandal,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: that's what's happening. He said, Yeah. I can't fix Sean Chan.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: I can't get rid of the Sean Chan, but I
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: can get rid of Grandal. I know I can do that.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: At least. She's like, you took no time at all
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: to come up with this plan. You took months to
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: maneuver Samuel into position grandall. You're figuring this all out
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: in a day.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but he went after Rovin in one afternoon when
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: he found out that he took out Elaine's mother.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, that was entirely an impulsive, emotional decision. There
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: was no thought in that choice at all.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: I think of multiple times when he just goes after
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: a forsaken because it's like an opportune time and he
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: doesn't want to be predictable, you know.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: She says he had rushed off to fight forsaken like
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: this before, but like, ah, it's just it usually goes worse.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it goes terribly.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: She's like, every time you rush into this, it's bad.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: He almost dies every time. It's really really he's That's
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: why he's in such bad shape. That's why he's got
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: two stab wounds. That's why he's got you know, remember
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: how he rushed off to go like deal with the rebels,
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: and that's why he got stabbed because Fame was hiding
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: among them. Let the maidens do their thing.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Well he does this time, he does tell the maidens,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: I'm going to battle. Bring you know, the size of
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: the team I need is twenty. But nonetheless, you know,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: but it's also like.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: He's not really going to battle. He's more going to
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: fucking like shell and opponents. He's gonna like nuke an
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: opponent's position.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, he is going to battle. He's going
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: to do a sniping mission. And he was like, guard
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: my flanks so I don't have to worry about a
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: shepherd with a stick sneaking up on me while I
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: do my big magic boom.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: I suppose, I suppose it's more of.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: A duel maybe than a battle, but it's not a
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: duel if the other person doesn't see you coming right right,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: so well, she's kind of did well he assumes she doesn't.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Man asks if this is a trap, and he says, no,
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: I know the Forsaken so well that I can tell
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: you that this would be a very Mgeddian sort of trap,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: but not a grand All sort of trap, which I'm like,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: you're putting a lot of trust in your read on
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: these people. Have you ever thought they might try to
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: be unpredictable or have changed? Is that not an option? Yeah?
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: Maybe they've learned something, Maybe they have some other motivating
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: factor that's changing their calculus, Like have you ever considered that?
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: But no, No.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: As much as I hated Bow the Wild, I really
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: like Sanderson's attempt to change a forsaken and have him
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: be somebody different and be like, oh, the experiences he's
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: experienced in this new age have changed him into somebody else.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: Still awful.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: I did find that a refreshing take on a villain,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: to say, what if the villains have character arcs throughout
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: the series instead of just being in their final evil form.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: Even though yeah, I agreed, didn't actually like the end result,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: it was a refreshing attention. Yes, yes, I would agree
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: with that. So yeah, like rand, what if?
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: What if?
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: What if? Grandall? Yeah, decided to learn but whatever she didn't.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: She operates almost exactly like he anticipated, with one minor variation.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: She had somebody else do the compulsion. That was kind
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: of learning.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but even then, it's not really learning. It was
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: more just a random decision because those people were there, Like,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: it's almost like Tevere and worked to keep her alive.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Or you know, author's plot holes when they started the
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: second book, Oh shit, we can't kill Crundle off with
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: Pale Fire. We actually need her for the last couple
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: of books. Quick think of somebody else who could have
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: done the compulsion.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: It does kind of feel like what happened.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: It does, it does a little bit well. I think
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: he had it planned out from the beginning. I think
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: there's too small of a gap between the books. I
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: think he's writing them all together. I don't know.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know. We'll discuss it in depth when we
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: get there. It is worth, though, tracking what we know
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: happens from the prologue of the next book against this.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: It is worth remembering what's actually happening as we go
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: through the sequence of events here and bring it up
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: trying to get too distracted also somehow, but you know us,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: we're going to get distracted. Minn asks to come along,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: and Rand provides no resistance to it at all, which
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: she finds surprising.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because he's like, I have to protect you.
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she kept expecting that. But he's transitioned into that
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: space of like, I don't care about anything, So if
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: you die, you die, I'll it'll just suck and whatever.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: I don't care that, I'm gonna hate it.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: It's fine, the last that could be done has been done, right,
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: Like this is the you can't no more? Yeah, you
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: know if you die, well you know this, I've expected
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: that at least I won't have killed.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: You, right, Yeah, And she doesn't because they're not talking
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: to each other. She doesn't understand that that's what's going
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: on for him. So confusing, but yeah, she goes along
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: and he picks up the nuke. He actually is going
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: to bring along the magic nuke and use it.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: I mean he's been carrying it everywhere, but he's not.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: Leaving it behind. He's bringing it.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: No for sure, for sure. And we get a little
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: justification later when we talks about like why he wasn't
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: isn't using calendar anymore despite it being named in the prophecies. Yeah,
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: it's all a box. We get a pretty decent history
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: of Naturum's barrow. I don't know how much you wanted
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: to go into that. It's like a page and a half.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: I'm surprised that it's stood since the trollocars. A thousand
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: years is a long time for a fortress to stay functional,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: and a jewel in the crown and all that, Like
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: I kind of would have expected it to be torn
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: down and rebuilt at some point in all that time.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: So it's pretty cool.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: I'm going with the theory that, you know, things have
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: been getting worse since the breaking, not better. So they
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: actually knew how to build better buildings a thousand years
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: ago than they do now.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Oh sure, sure, yeah, yeah, I mean, and buildings can
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: obviously stand for a very long time if they're made
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: out of stone, and there will maintained. It's just given
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: how much this world has been decaying over the last
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: three thousand years, I'm amazed that this has stood for
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: a thousand years. Fitzpant, there is I don't think there
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: is an explanation for who Natron was of Natron's.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: Barrow, however, I'm assuming he is buried there, right.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Because that's what a barrow is, a burial, Like that's
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: just a word that exists. We don't have to particulate
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: that too much. But yeah, maybe it's before the thing
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: was built. There was, Yeah, a king was buried there,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: and then there was a shrine which became a fortress,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: which became and the barrow was.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Also like a mound, right, So it's probably built up
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: upon this mound or this hill, right, that which Mattrim
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: was buried.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: So it's this right, Yeah, kind of like the Vatican
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: was built on Vatican Hill. There's very much less.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Hill now, any idea who this dude is, No that
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: I don't think there's any mention of Natrum apart from
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: that's what it's named after.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with Vouji. It's probably some guy whose
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: memories now reside in Matt's head. Also because Natron and
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Matrim very similar sounding words, So plenty of room for
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: fun head cannon to brodge that gap there.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: Well, that in earlier life he fought and was buried
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: there in some grand battle.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm can I assume that some pre arter hawk
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: wing great general kind of guy. But yeah, there's nothing
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: canonical for that. That's entirely head cannon.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and the History of the Natural Baro
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: doesn't talk about when it was built. It just happens that, oh,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: it was seized by the King of Ara demon before that,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: it was occupied, But it doesn't say built by these people.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: It was built long ago to guard against Menetherine. That's
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: what he said is that it was it was built
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: long ago to watch the mountains of myths, to watch
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: the mountains of Mysts and guard against incursion through passes
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: by Menetherin. So it's the era of Menetherine and it
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: was used for military purposes in the Troloic Wars, but
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: not since, like that's what we know about it historically.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: So it's more than a thousand years old. It's you know,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: like fifteen hundred years old.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, it's been sort of.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: If Menethrine fell a thousand years ago, right, like in
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: the Trollic Wars.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, So it was built very old. It's some
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: very old architecture. It's not like the whatever modern architecture
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: common people have. It's very very old. Looks like a
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: layer cake or a tears cake kind of. It looks
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: like a tiered wedding cake in my mind. The way
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: it's like each layer is a narrower than the last.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: It sounds like a you know, seven tier wedding cake,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: just nestled in a beautiful mountain.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: Valley, which, if you think about it, like gives you
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: successive retreating defensive points.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Hmm. Yeah, would not be surprised if the stone of
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: Tier gave inspiration for that sort of thing for a
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: lot of the subsequent buildings, because the Stone of Tier
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: has been around since the breaking, so everyone trying to
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: you know, learn from it. Do good structures would have
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: that to learn from?
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: Sure, I mean they also again it's all about forgetting
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: knowledge they used to have. So I always think they
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: knew everything in the Age of Legends, and slowly they forgetting.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such a reverse from our usual fantasy arc
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: of like bigger, better, more magic, more technology. Is like no, no, no,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: less less, less less. This is it's not immediate post apocalypse.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: It's three thousand years later post apocalypse, not thirty years later,
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: not three days later, three thousand years later post post apocalypse.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: And it really seems like this is the point at
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: which the hand is turning around the trends right, like
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: suddenly the White Tower is full again, Suddenly the Black
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: Tower is back. So you have these two pillars of
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: channelers to come back and bring civilization back. He's bringing
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: back education and trains and like you, basically he's reversing
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: the downward trend through everything he's doing and by winning
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: the last battle, which is you know, he's doing an
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: amazing job. He just doesn't necessarily see it. He's not
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: seeing the success of the schools and what because he
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: can't pick envision what the future is going to bring.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: He doesn't understand why these inventions are going to make
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: such a difference.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: No, he has a vague hope, but that's not enough
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: to stave back the like traumatized nihilism that he's been
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: retreating to. Vague hope is not enough.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: But we understand and like the progression of technology and
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: how that's going to go, and like we're like, oh, yeah, no,
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: this is totally a civilization that's like on its way
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: to being a modern or postmodern civilization.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, they're about to get it all back Rand,
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Like you are doing the work. It's just yeah, you're
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: getting need to get about thirty years after the end
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: of the last battle to really have all those fruits payoff.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: But like you totally did the thing. But yeah, he's
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: not in a place to think about that at all.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Right now, Ben thinks about how he's scarier to her
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: now than when he was literally being compelled to kill
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: her or forced wasn't really compelled, it was a different
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: kind of being forced. But he's he's really really what
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: does she call it? A combination of failure and determination
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: is kind of what's driving him. He's tunnel visioned on
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: a really bleak sort of I'll ruin the world so
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: that way no one can have anything at the end
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: sort of trajectory. Almost.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: The next thing I have is Ramchalan coming in with
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: his you know, gestures, bells and cap and like he's
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: such a fool.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: A disheveled peacock in men's words, which just is so
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: evocative foppish, And.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: So Ram feeds him some bullshit lines, you know, basically
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: like tell me, how do I outthink an enemy I
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: know is smarter than I am, which is just sort
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: of he's sort of philosophizing in front of him to
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: give him something grendal, something to fined, right and to
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: pull meaning.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Out of yeah exactly. He's setting up a whole conversation
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: and context to then have a conversation in. And then
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: Ramchalan has a whole yeah, little package scene to deliver
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: it to Grandall as though she's actually seeing more than
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: she was supposed to see or whatever, and his I
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: love his like rhetorical question, how do you deal with
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: someone who's smarter than you? Oh, well, maybe you you
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: ask someone who's who's also really smart. Yes, that's probably
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: a good idea. Anyway, off you go. Just like on
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: the one hand, he's amusing. On the other hand, he
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: is like speed running the dialogue to get this guy
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: out the door, like as fast as possible.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: And I like, Men's little you know her commentary, idiot
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: men thought, if your enemy is that crafty and ruthless
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: an alliance, we'll only and with an assassin's nagger in
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: your back. And just her being like, oh my god,
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: this like head in palm just cannot believe what this
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: guy is saying, Like this pomp and Jay doesn't know
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: what the hell he's talking about. Rand what are you
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: doing not knowing? He's just bait, He's just he's a
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: worm wriggling on a hook.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is this is the act of putting the
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: worm on the hook to make it nice and tempting.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Like all of this is just setting up Ramchalan's delivery
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: so that way grand All does what Grandall does, and
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: I mean fundamentally, Yeah, it is a good idea when
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: you don't when you're intel leigence or knowledge is not
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: up to the task to go to someone who is
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: an expert, that that is good. But yeah, when you're
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: talking about this kind of politics. I'm with men like
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: just don't just don't, don't do this at all, just because, yeah,
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: Ram Shalon is a kiss ass, and that means that
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: he's going to be the first to be sacrificed when
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: push comes to shove and he's done.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: I would have loved to have seen some sort of
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: mention of a dove or a bird flying in this chapter,
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: but I didn't see anything like that.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: I was looking for a flutter of wings at the
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: edge of hearing or something, but no. Yeah, so Rand
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: sends ram Schalan through to hike to the fortress. He
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: doesn't like deliver him to the gate, doesn't send him
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: in a carriage, doesn't give him an escort. It's just like, no,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: you can cross country for like a half a mile.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: It's fine, Like any chuck can walk half a mile
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: in the woods. Rom Schelon's like, I am wearing silk slippers, right,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: there's no trail here, but whatever. He goes off because
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: it's the Lord Dragon. And so then after a minute,
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: Rand and his escort of maidens goes out through and
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: they kind of, you know, set up a perimeter where
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: he can just hang out in the woods. And watch
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: and wait for Romchalan to come back, and in the meantime,
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Ninive beerates him and he talks to her and it's
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: very upsetting.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: Rom Schalan really sort of pissed Rand off, right, I
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: forgot he.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: Uh he conspired with the other lords and was like,
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: I can manipulate Rand and we can take all the
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: power for ourselves and whatever. Yeah, Rand says, I'm going
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: to forgive you being an asshole by letting you live
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: because you did this service for me today, but his
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: compensation for the brain damage you risk you It.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: Was kind of crazy that he kind of gets off
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: scott free with the bail fire.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: The only way to be healed from compulsion and not
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: get lobotomized is by bailfire.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: By not having been compelled at all in the first place.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So yeah, and I need tries to challenge Rand
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: on this, and Rand goes all loose therein on it
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: drops a name that nobody.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: Ran, Tours Magan.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: Also known as Tours the Broken, which like, I I got.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: Nothing, Yeah, and he's like, you know about that, right.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: Right, Sanderson did a really good job of making something
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: with no connection to anything else there. Yeah, Like I
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: think he very deliberately was like, this means nothing, no.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: Enjoy because there's no context. There's no way to put
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: it into context of when or how or who or like, I.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: Can't even tie it to a real world thing, like
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: what the fuck is tours the broken? I have no
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: idea what that means. I can't make any supposition about
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: what that means. Like, if anyone has any idea what
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: that means, please let me know, because as far as
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: I can tell, Sanderson was like, let me find the
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: most meaningless series of words I can put in a
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: row and have that be it. So that way the
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: audience is just as confused as knit min and I nave.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: Maybe he broke his toe and he's like, my toes
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: mangled and he made that toes Margan, No, you know
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: toes the broken, no broke?
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: I get out. So Naive says, fine, if you're not
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: going to be if you're not going to answer any
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: of my questions, then why did you ask me here
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: at all? And Rand says what I'm about to do
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: should frighten me and it doesn't m hm.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: And he's always kind of dependent on Ninive to be
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: his moral compass in the past, like is she knows
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: right from wrong. She's the wisdom. She's the one who
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: taught me right from wrong. I should be able to
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: depend on her. And now he's like, Nope, don't. It's
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: I understand that you don't want me to do this,
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: and I'm going to do it anyway, but I need
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: you here. He needs her there to verify the compulsion
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: is off.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, because I was kind of wondering, like, he
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: doesn't really seem to care that she's upset, but yeah,
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: I know it's the compulsion.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: M hm. She is the only one he knows of
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: who can read the waves of compulsion.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It really moves Ninive to another level of willing
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: to deal with Kat swayin watching this happen.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: So once Ramchalan whatever the fuck his name is, yep,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: stumps off into the woods the twenty I yell, go
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: through the gateway and do a little scouting thing and
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: make sure that there's no enemies nearby, and then ran
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: steps through. So he's abiding by his pact with the Maidens, right,
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: he's letting them carry his honor for once.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: They would be pissed off if he didn't take them
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: on this. They would consider this going to battle so
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: he let them bring the guard so that way honor
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: could be fulfilled. And literally they're guarding him against deer
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: and shepherds. But like whatever their honor is fulfilled, it's fine.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: Oh and apparently in the original printings it says in
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: a few moments, white haired Serialia stepped into view and
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: nods land at all, nodded to rant and the reprints
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: they changed its to Narrilla because Sorelli is not in
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: charge of the Maidens anymore, right, right.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: It's Nandera, I believe. Yeah, that's funny. I wonder what
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: mine is. Oh, it's it's a print since the show
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: came out, so it's definitely a newer print.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: So but I don't know if the audiobooks have been
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: corrected either, but I bet it.
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, I have no idea. Yeah, I have no idea
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: because I don't listen to those audiobooks as much.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Because oftentimes the audiobooks are done, you know, either with
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: the original print.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the older books, Yeah, they're always the original. Every
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: time we found a thing, like in the older books,
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: it was always the original print version was the audiobook.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: But maybe they changed it with the newer one.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: Who knows that would actually be an interesting question to go.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: Like to ask them is have you ever re recorded
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: any lines for the real time for like new editions,
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: or like did they ever ask you to go back
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: and do something I've never asked? Thought to ask is,
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: like do you ever have to do new lines that
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: get inserted back into the old books because they re
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: release new editions and change some texts and stuff like that.
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: That would be an interesting question to ask. I bet
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: they don't, but I'd love to hear the answer. So, yeah,
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: while we're waiting for Ramchelan to come back, Randon and
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: I need talk about grand all men thinks about the
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: ignoring heat and cold trick and how it doesn't work
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: for her, which I think is just a matter of practice. H.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: I think it's because it doesn't work for non channelers.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: I think only channelers put in the hours necessary to
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: accumulate that experience. I think it's just the only channelers
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: put in the mental effort. I think it is possible
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: for non channelers. They just don't understand the kind of
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: dedication it takes that would be intuitively obvious if one
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: was a channeler.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: So pants has sulan for that sentence instead of Nolla. Sorry,
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: I was reading when you were doing your life thing.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: What was that about.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: I think that non channelers can learn the trick, but
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: they just don't put in the time and focus necessary
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: that channelers do automatically because they're channelers.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: You think having the skill the channel primes you to
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: be able to learn the other trick.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And if someone was really dedicated to it
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: as a non channeler, they could also do it, but
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: it just would take such a more conscious effort for
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: them that basically nobody does. That's what I think.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: I think it's one of the side effects like not aging,
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: that it's one of the things that like, it's not exclicit,
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: it's not something that is channeling, but it's an effect
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: of being exposed to the power that you have that
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: little ability to just ignore the heat and cold and
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: not have it affect you as much. Yeah.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know canonically it's an option, but I know
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: you can do some pretty amazing things with your sensory experience.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: If you're willing to put in hours of meditation over
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: months of time, it's hours a day for like stretches
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: of days to weeks, you can train yourself into some
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: pretty wild stuff that I just don't seem in doing
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: that because she's you know, reading all of Harod Fiel's library.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: But that's not what the channelers do. I mean they
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: describe it in the Tower where it's like, once you
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: know the trick, it takes like a couple of days
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: to get the hang of it, and then like a
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: week of like practice and you're good to go for
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: the rest of your life.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: Well, and my explanation for that is, I think it's
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: very akin to seizing the source, and like once when
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: you have the feedback loop of being able to seize
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: the source, I just think it runs at a different speed.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: I think the process goes very, very much faster for channelers.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: You have to take the long way around. As a
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: non channeler, basically, I don't think anyone would do because.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: So practically we're agreeing that only channelers are the ones
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: who are going to do it. Yeah, yeah, but we're
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: disagreeing on the mechanism of like whether it's possible for
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: someone to eventually figure it out if they can't channel. Yeah.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's still effectively the purview of channelers. And when
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: they say, oh, anyone can do it, it's a serious
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: misrepresentation of the skill for non channelers. It's like, good
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: for you, but not for the rest of us. Thanks.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: We never hear about Warters being trained to do it,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: Mom jeans that is a thing that would be in
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: strong support of it being a non channeler trick if
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: Warters just kind of learned that as part of water training.
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: The lack of that is definitely a big old gap
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: in the argument.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: Look another donut hole.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: Not the donut hole. We get some talk about how
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: the building is a complete working estate with hundreds of
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: people in it, which is a pretty cool concept, like
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: a completely self cont again, much like the Stone of Tier,
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: a entirely self contained a state. The whole thing is
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: probably built with some kind of superstructure.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: Pretty neat, still on a much smaller scale than the
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: Stone of Tier. I mean Stone of Tier is gigantic.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: Yet oh yeah, yeah, yeah, this was built by regular people,
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: not by magic. Right, this is not the Stone of Tier,
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: but it's it's a cool thing to be. Like, No,
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: they've got their own stables and foundries and wells, and
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: like it's not just a house, it's everything. And it
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: has yeah, hundreds of people, presumably all of whom are
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: compelled by grandall. Do you think she had to do
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: every one of them individually or could she cast like
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: a mass net over lots of them at once.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think she's been collecting them for a
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: while and it only takes her like a few minutes
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: to create these weaves. It's not like a big deal
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: to her. I think she just does everyone who comes
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: into her presence. I don't think she trusts anybody else
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: to do it, and I don't think she needs to
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: bother with a mass on, because again, she's these are
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: her prizes, right, None of these are all important pretty people.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: Every single person on her staff is an important pretty person.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: Well, that's kind of my question. I kind of assumed
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: that there was just like an operational staff at the
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: building before she got there, and that she like took
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: the whole building complete with its staff, and that like
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: not all of the stable boys and kitchen maids are
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: prize possessions.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: No, that's why. That's why she compels the pretty important
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: people to be stable boys.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you're saying she found hundreds of them in
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: just a few months, and yes, all the support staff
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: that were running the place before all died.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Uh. Yeah, Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: I guess the trelicks did have to eat. Yeah, but
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: she wouldn't have shown up well, I guess she would
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: have shown up with her own support staff already in toe.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: Probably she wouldn't have been starting from scratch when she
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: first shot down.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: So and she's got gateways. So she's just making gateways
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: and going out and like seeking out powerful people and
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: snagging them. You know, like remember when like the two
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: can get cut in half and she's like, oh, they
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: took a bunch of effort to get geez.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but those were like her personal attendants, not like
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: the hunters coming back with a deer at the end
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: of the night. I don't know. I just assumed that
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: there was an operational staff that she acquired, just like
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: because they're just part of the building basically like Downton
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: Abbey's style. I don't know.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: Maybe yeah, we really don't know, but I either way,
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: she didn't let them. There's no way she'd let any
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: information out. So they're compelled to think something totally different
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: is going on inside the estate than what they're actually
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: exposed to, right, they're brain.
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: Fried, right, Yeah, But yeah, I'm just like I just
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: I'm wondering if she like showed up and like gathered
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: like everyone in the kitchen together and then it was
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: just like you are all compelled like in one mass thing.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: Now go back to doing whatever it is you do
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: in kitchens, you know, Like I don't know if she
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: like hand picked every single cook and like individually compelled them,
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: or if she just was like, there is a staff here.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: Great, we don't really see, you know, like like we
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: don't really see how Raven integrates himself into the staff.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: Does he just sort of walk into the audience chamber
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: and compel everybody as he walks in, or did you
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: like instigate himself a couple of people at a time
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: and get a bunch of introductions and slowly compel people
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: one at a time, like and you know in you know,
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: worm his way into the heart of the throne room
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: before he met more Gace, So he had a bunch
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: of people compelled, Like how how did we don't know,
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: We don't really know what their level of compel everybody
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: is And it seems like the force ta can have
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: different levels of compulsion, right like and abilities with it.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, honestly, that was a thing I wanted to
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: see more of in the books. I kind of was
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: disappointed when Raven died without really ever being on screen
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: doing the politics that he was apparently doing. I was
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: kind of like, I wanted to see more than sword
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: swinging for a sake, and I wanted to actually see
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: what evil politics looked like on like a multi scene
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: sort of trajectory and mm hmm.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: And we see a lot of it through the effects
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: that he creates, but you're right, we don't get to
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: actually we never saw a POV of him doing it.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: Or with Samel or with Grandel. Right, like they say
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: that that's what they did. We see the end effects,
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: but we didn't really get to see it in action.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, a couple more books, I'm sure we.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: Get all right, where are we at? Is Ramchalan back?
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Have we waited long enough?
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: No? Ninieve says, he make it sound as if you
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: can't win, and RAN's like, we can't win, you say,
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: Ran asked, is that what we're trying to do? Win?
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: And again this is his sort of allegory towards he's
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: just going to flip the board over, not play the
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: game and puncher in the face. That's like You're right,
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: I can't win, and that's all I'm trying to do.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: Right, Right, He's like, what if I am the pigeon
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: shitting all over the chessboard?
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: And of course then he was like, are you just
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: answering my questions with more questions? Is that all you
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: were going to do from now on?
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: I know you are, But what am I?
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah? And he basically goes yeah. He doesn't say.
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: Anything basically yeah, yeah, he just he just powers up. No,
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: he doesn't power calendar yet.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: No, this is him sort of. This is he waits
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: for the sun to set. Right, the sun is setting
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: as they wait, and they just kind of wait in
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: silence for a couple of hours while you know, we
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: we know from Grendel's pov ron Schlan's getting all the
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: question and getting the wives put on him and right.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: So at this point, as as the sun is setting,
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: Halima and Delana are just piling on compulsion. His Grandalla
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: is saying, Hey, you know, what would be fun for
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: you to put compulsion on this guy who showed up
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: from rand and who I trying to figure out the plan, Like,
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: how about you occupy yourselves with putting these waves in
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: the sky. Well, I think about things, and then they
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: send him out. I think roughly around sunset. I forget exactly,
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: but you know, as darkness is gathering, and at that
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: point she gets a dove and she uses the true
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: power to like do a ride along with the dove
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: and sends the dove flying back up to follow Ramschlung,
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: which we don't see any evidence of here, but it
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: is worth knowing that somewhere in all the forest noise
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: is the wing flaps of a dove that has grand
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: All doing spy drone shit basically.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: And also Grendall's not really paying attention to what they're
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: saying because she can't really hear it all that well.
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: And she kind of flies up later and like they're
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: not she's not doing a very good job with spying.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: At first, no, she thinks, she thinks about how annoying
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: it is that it's hard to hear through a pigeon's
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: of your holes. She's like trying to hear, and she's like, fuck,
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: they're not meant for hearing. This is frustrating, but yeah,
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: she follows him up. She sees the gateway, she sees
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: Rand talking to an I said eye, She sees the
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: bail fires starting to get built in the Choadan call,
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: and then she flees as Rand is like powering up
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: the weapon and does her whole tie them up escape
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: through her own gateway leg. But we're at the flying
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: up in a spy drone dove part of that arc,
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: following Ramshalan, right, she just gets right in there behind
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: him and just follows him up the hill and yeah,
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: Ramsalon shows up. The Maidens grab him, assuming that he's,
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: you know, Venturian candidate, gonna go for Rand's throat or something,
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: and Rand asks Nieve to look, and she says, wow,
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: this is different than the Chandler's Apprentice, but comparably upsetting,
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: which we know it's because two less skilled people did
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: an excessively complicated series of weaves on his brain.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, or just not as bad, or maybe just more subtle.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: I think there's just not as much there. I just
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: think they they're despite all of their laying it on,
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: they were not doing as much damage as Grendall did.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, and then Nintalk's asking how did she see Sitine,
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: You're right, she's only seeing half of the compulsion, because
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: half the compulsion that was put on his head was
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: actually sighting. She's only seeing half what the man was
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: put through because Grandall was like, well, we don't know
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: what they can read up there, so like put a
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: man's waves on it, you know, Helena's waves on it
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: as well, right, right, right, And yeah, actually Niniva's only
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: seeing the stuff that Delana applied.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: Which is interesting because she could have seen those weaves
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: get a race but still see like what if Helena
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: had escaped and Delana.
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: Hadn't, Yeah, then we would have had a double occluded
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: forsaken agent. That would have been upsetting, but it didn't
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: happen because Grandal killed them both.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it was interesting where she says not as
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: bad or maybe just more subtle, like so I was
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: just trying to figure out but it just because it
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: happened faster. Is it because it's less significant? She's not
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: trying to like, yeah, I think it's.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: Because it's less significant. Yeah, it was just trying to
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: affect ram Schalant's current behavior and not totally hollow him
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: out and replace him. I think I assume, like I
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: think it was going to make him like, you know,
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: sing a weird song or something like that, so complicated,
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: but not something that like digs into your personality centers
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: and hurts your brain. It's just like you got extra drunk.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know, because I remember Grandall says something like
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: make it extra convoluted for no particular reason. So I'm
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: assuming that Delana doesn't have the skills to be actual
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: grand All levels of compulsions. It was probably going to
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: be like you will not wear matching socks for the
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: next six weeks or something. Weird.
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: It's an interesting way of looking at it. I thought
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: just the ways themselves were really you know, intricate, not
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: necessarily the result. I don't know.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: How would you make a weave intricate and not have
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: that manifest in the results?
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: I guess I don't know. Same way you can make
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: code complicated without that would and have a really simple output.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, fair enough.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: So min mentions cod Swain, which is always a mistake
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: because she's trying to get him to go back. She's like,
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: come on, let's think about what we're gonna do about this.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: Let's not make any rash actions. Let's go back. Codswayn
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: He's like, Codswayne put me in a box. She's terrible.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: She used her tongue to put me in a box,
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: which I don't really go.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: Okay when he says that what kad Swain said to
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: him hurt worse than being beaten repeatedly by the Reds,
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: I wanted to hit him, like he's been hit enough.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: No one needs to be hitting rand, But like, what
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: the fuck are you talking about? Being beaten repeatedly getting
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: into all that trauma was as bad as Kadswain being
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: a disrespectful bully with her words like come the fuck
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: on my dude.
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: Emotionally damaged, right.
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so emotionally damaged that he thinks that being yelled
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: at is as bad as being physically assaulted, even though
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: he got assaulted.
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: I don't, Oh, it's like he's abused and can't take
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: the Yeah.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: The dissociation here is pretty intense if he's like because honestly, like, yes,
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: Kat Swayin is an asshole, a abusive bully, emotionally manipulative
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: of all that stuff, but like she was not nearly
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: as abusive as the Reds, just wailing on him multiple
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: times a day, cramping him in a box, not letting
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: him drink water, Like I just I think.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: It goes with this this stories and the series theme
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: that like you can get used to physical pain, which
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: is and you can lessen it. You can physical pain,
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: you can minimize it to the point where physical pain
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: doesn't really matter to you anymore. And so then the
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: emotional pain that he's feeling from Codswain, which is really
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, she's just prodding his own bruised ego, bruised
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: personality that like can't deal with the fact that he
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: can't save everybody. You know, Yeah, I.
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: Just I don't get it. I don't know. I cannot
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: get used to physical pain, and I've very much gotten
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: used to psychological pain. I don't. I just I feel
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: so completely like this is not my lived experience. I
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: don't get it. Like Kat Swayin, is nothing compared to
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: being crammed in a box between beatings. I just how
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: can you compare those things?
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: So the next week get uh which a very visual
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: rand author Bailfire Netroom Sparrow. This is the anime portion
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: of the Bailfire right, the sunset rand was now just
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: a silhouette, and then so all he's this black silhouette
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: and then he holds the children call and this red
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: light starts emitting from the ball and so he's lit
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: up and you know the glow on his face, This
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: is this deep red glow from below on his deep
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: set eyes, so his eyes remain in shadow while he
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: pulls in in an inordinate amount of power. It's while
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: he's this black silhouette against the setting sun. It's just
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: it's gorgeous. It's gorgeous. And then he sort of creates
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: a second setting sun in his hands.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's this one line that's just I'm looking for it. Yeah,
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: the light hurled shadows away from his figure, as if
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: he was the point of a silent explosion, just hurled,
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: hurled shadows away from his figure. It's so visceral. There
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: is so much motion because I can see it. I
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: can see it. It's one of those lights that's just
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: so stupid bright that the shadow is just so intensely dark.
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: It's like stadium lights, right, Like he's like a stadium light,
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: but you're standing right next to it.
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: And it's not a steady light. It's kind of a
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: pulsing light. So it feels like the shadows are encroaching
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: then getting thrown away again, right, is it pulsing? Well, No,
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: that's sort of how I think about it. Doesn't say pulsing.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: But oh, okay, it's it's intense, there's this red in it,
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: but it's also like just bright as hell, it's super white.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: It's a lot.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: He's going off about how much calendar sucks.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a calendar sucks. And I have every death
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: that I do, I can't do it in anger. I
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: can't do it with emotion. Every death has to be
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: deliberate and just like that, just I don't I mean,
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: I get it, but like oooh, saying that while you
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: continue to pull magic into the nuke button just feels
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: really really ominous. Your allies should be afraid of you
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: at this point. There's no way that your allies are
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: not terrified of you. You do realize that, right, right,
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: I mean mutually sure.
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: Destruction is logical, not emotional.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: This is why logic should not be considered superior to emotion.
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: Thank you, I need emotions. Emotions are actually very important.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: That's part of what zen Rand learns is that he
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: has to be able to feel things in order to
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: save the world.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: And so, and he's fringing out because calendar is like
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: it's another box, right. He basically has to be in
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: linked with two women that he trusts to use calendar
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: safely because it's got that flaw in it that makes
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: him go crazy the more power he uses. And he's like,
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: I refuse to be controlled. Basically, I will not enter
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: in agreement with two other women to use that power.
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: I will use it however I want. And in this case,
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: he's using it to bail fire natrum Vero.
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: Well, he's not using calendar at all. He's ditching calendar.
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: Right, But that's that's why he's ditching calendar, so he
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: can use that power to do what he wants. Right,
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: he has this alternative, which is the children call.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, clearly, unbridled power with no checks and balances and
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: no willing surrender is clearly the better way to go.
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: Definitely totally because I don't I don't see calendar as
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: a box. I don't even see it as a leash.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: It's recognizing the need for teamwork in order to deal
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: with Satan mm hmm.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: And that's where he gets after his visions. Right, but
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: right now he doesn't see that he sees any any control.
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: Any compromise is control in his eyes any way, that
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: he's not doing exactly what he wants to do, no
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: matter what anyone else says even taking advice for him
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: is problematic these days.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: Right right, And I mean ultimately they do use Colindor
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: as sort of a box leash confiner thing that's different.
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah it is a box. Yeah it's trapped, but not
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: for you.
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: Mordan wouldn't have needed to be Yeah, he wouldn't need
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: to be trapped if he wasn't a nihilistic evil person.
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: So you mean like Randa is right now?
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, basically he's going super forsaken here. And that's
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: why Men and Ninive go running off to Katswain and
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: the wise Ones because they're like, Randa's getting real forsakeny
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: around the edges.
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: So yeah, this is really cool. Do you want to
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: just I kind of want to read the description of
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: him Baiale firing match one's barrow because it's really cool.
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yea, yeah, yeah you want to.
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: I do want to talk about this thing. I murdered
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: a woman long before I say Samarak. Her name was La.
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: I killed her in Shadow Logos. Also the woman he
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: killed in the.
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: I Know cart I know, the nameless dark Friend woman.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah no, I totally like, I murdered a woman and
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: I was like really, you're gonna admit to the dark Friend, lady. No,
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: it's Leah. Leah was the second woman you killed, and
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: in a.
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: Lot of ways, Moraine was also because you couldn't strike
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: down land fear, Moraine died, so in a lot of
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: ways you killed.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: But that's, yeah, that's less relevant to this. That's particular example.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: He's talking about actions taken to end a woman's life.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, it's what about the woman's head you cut off?
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you literally cut that woman's out off. And yet
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: maybe it's because he's blended a little bit too much
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: with LTT and that's been forgotten well, and he does.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: Mention the woman in the caravan later. Oh yeah, there's
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: a moment where he's like, I think in is when
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: he's forgiving himself or whatever he talks about it.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess. And in many ways this is comparable
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: to Leah because he did not kill that nameless dark
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: Friend as a mercy killing. He killed her in an
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: act of self defense. When he killed Leah, it was
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: because he thought it was better. And he's using that
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: same justification to have all of the collateral damage of
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: everyone else in Natural Spero. In addition, to his target.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: He literally annihilates an entire city block with a complete
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: working estate to get one target, and he justifies it
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: by comparing it to saving Leah from Mashadar, and he misses.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: Unlike with Leah, he would actually killed Leah. That did happen.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, but he missed Semarrog or Semile in the process.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: Masha Dar picks that up.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess that counts. Masha Dark corrupted him enough.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: He couldn't be brought back because his soul was corrupted
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: by Mashidar. And that's what the Dark One needs to grab,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: is the soul. That's why they're diametrically opposed, right, That's
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: why shatout a logo the sort of like Infane and
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: the Dark One there, they're like matter and anti matter.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: They don't do well together.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So yeah, I feel like I should read a
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: couple of paragraphs of this because he's good.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, go for it.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: Something impossibly bright formed in the air before him, and
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: men cried out, backing away. The air itself seemed to warp,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: as if pulling away from Rand in fear. Dust blew
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: from the ground in a circle around him, and the
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: trees groaned, lit by the brilliant white light, the pine
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: needles rattling like one hundred thousand insects scrambling over one another.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: Men could no longer make out Rand. Only a blazing,
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: brilliant force of light, pure power gathered, making the hairs
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: in her arms rise with the force of its nebulous energy.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: In that moment, she felt as if she could understand
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: what the one power was. It was there before her,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: made incarnate in the man Rand Alphor, and then with
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: a sound like a sigh, he released it. A column
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: of pure whiteness exploded from him and burned across the
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: silent night's sky, illuminating the trees below it. In a wave.
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: It moved as quick as a snap of the fingers
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: striking the wall of the distant fortress. The stones came
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: alight as if they were breathing in the force of
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: the energy. The entire fortress glowed, transforming into living light,
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: an amazing, spectacular palace of unadulterated energy. It was beautiful.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: And then it was gone, burned from the landscape and
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: the pattern as if it had never been there. The
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: entire fortress, hundreds of feet of stone, and everyone who
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: had lived in it. Something hit men, something like a
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: shocking wave in the air. It wasn't a physical blast,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: and it didn't make her stumble, but it twisted her
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: insides about. The forest around them, still lit by the
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: glowing access key in Rand's hands, seemed to warp and shake.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: It was as if the world itself were groaning in agony.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: It snapped back that men could still feel that tension.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: In that instant. It seemed as if the very substance
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: of the world had been near to breaking. Is so good?
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really good. But yeah, I mean just massive
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: amounts of bailfire taking out a huge chunk that goes
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: back in time consequences. It seems like it maybe it
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: was pretty self contained and that may have helped prevent
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: the worst effcts. Is the only thing I was thinking.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was thinking if the only people who would
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: forget the last twenty minutes of life are also people
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: who were gone, and it's yeah, it's kind of self contained.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, A couple of things to talk about in that,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: for sure. The amount of pure sidin he gathers right
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: like she senses it min does, which is kind of crazy.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when you're channeling so much that the non channelers
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: of the opposite sex.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: You can see the lot.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: Are picking up on it. You're pulling in a lot.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: It's just like the bleed over from the power of
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: you pulling in that much power is causing a brilliant light.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: Well, because like the power suffuses every particle of existence, right,
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: the power is what makes reality. So if you gather
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: enough of it into one spot, reality is going to
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: start like vibrating in response.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: Like ah, I just think of it like a white
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: light from a black body radiation, right, it just gets
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: hot enough.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally totally.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: And then the bail screen, because this is a bail
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: screen that happens instantaneously after the blast. Yes, right, it's
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: a shockwave in the air. It wasn't physical blast and
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: dimming her stumble, but it twisted or insides about, which
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: is not the flattening that we're described in Pairin and
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 2: Fayeel's pov.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: No, the part where the world feels like it's stretched
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: to breaking. You just feel like the world's gonna blow
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: away like that end feeling is comparable. But yeah, it's
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: a distinctly different experience also, but it.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: Makes me wonder if it's just like a different cut. Yeah, no,
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: I go back to the flattening being a bubble of evil.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: I think, Ugh, I go back and forth on that.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: I really I'm having so much trouble with that scene
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: and what it means. I feel like it was just
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: it's it can't it can't make it match any bail screen,
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: any bail fire, right, Yeah.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: It has to be displaced in time and space radically
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: because it was such a big, a big thing. Or
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: it was a bubble of evil. But that's the weirdest,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: most boring bubble of evil ever. So yeah, it I
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: liked it, or when I thought it was a bail scream,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: even if it didn't quite fit. And I would still
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: rather find head cannon to make it fit a bail scream.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: It feels more satisfying, even if I can't find good
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: canonical support for that.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: But like, and I was looking for some like three
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: vibrations or three things or three but there's nothing.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but there's nothing. There's no pulse, there's no count,
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: there's no number of strikes. There's nothing. Yeah, kind of unsatisfying,
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: but it is also nice, at least to know that
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: a bail scream is a thing that can happen.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: And then we get what I think is just one
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: of the dumbest parts of this chapter, which is when
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 2: everyone goes, oh, they were gone burned from the pattern
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: killed dead forever.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: Dead forever. It's in black and white on the page.
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: Which just it makes me think Men has to be
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: mistaken about how bail fire works. Right. We just have
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: this different canonical understanding of people that they will be
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: reborn eventually even if they're bailfired, just not as the
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: person they are. They'll just be born through the normal
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: way people are reborn. Your thread, just because your thread
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: is burned back a little bit, I few, doesn't mean
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 2: that the thread doesn't exist anymore as opposed to being cut.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: So is Men wrong or did Sanderson get it wrong?
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: Did Sanderson mess up here?
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: I think Sanderson messed up here and through speaking through
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: Men's voice.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: And I disagree with Robert Jordan's clarification on this point.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: I understand that Robert Jordan said, no, You're not dead forever.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: I kind of would rather that Sanderson was right here,
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: m hmm, and that that is what it is, and
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: that it just I would rather that this is correct,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: even though I understand it is canonically incorrect, But yeah,
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: I agree, it's it's less men's fault and more Sanderson's fault.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: Agreed. I agreed bailfire burned someone out of the pattern completely,
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: making it so their most recent actions never occurred. But yeah,
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: that burning out of the pattern completely is not how
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: I understood bailfire to work, and I think Sanderson got
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: it wrong in these books.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because because Jordan clarified very specifically that like people
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: do come back after being bail fired, and that just
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: really pulls down the horror a lot. So I would
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: prefer to memory hold that clarification from the Word of God.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: That it's bailfire is really just dangerous because you can
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: disrupt the pattern. It's not dangerous because you're actually like
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: wiping these people out from ever coming back. So Nineive
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: of course turns on and was like, what the fuck
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: was that? Right?
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: Like basically nine he was like, you just did a
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: war crime in front of me. I am your literal
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: almost mother, Like, you can't do war crimes in front
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: of me.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: And Rand's like, well, you know what, before you condemn me,
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: let's test Ramchalon and see if the compulsion is still there.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: Right, He's like I know that you're gonna take me
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: to the international Criminal Court. But first, did I get
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: the target, which is like cold.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: And of course we talked about Grendall essentially got lucky
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: these that the other two forsaken were the ones who
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: were casting the compulsion.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: One forsaken, one regular dark friend.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: That's right, that's right.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: But yeah, no, this is so.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: As that paragraph or set of paragraphs I was reading happened,
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: Grandall was realizing what was happening, fleeing the dove, going
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: back into her own body, tying up the other two
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: and slamming them with shields and hurling them into a
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: room behind a closed door, and making her own gateway
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: and jumping out with the wash of energy kind of
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: passing right behind her feet like Indiana Jones grabbing his
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: hat at the last minute. Levels of timing.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: Which I still think should have wiped out the gateway
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: instantly rather than coming through any energy coming through it.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that she doesn't like she closes the
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: gateway after feeling like a push of agreed, agreed, and
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: uh yeah, so all of that is happening. So as
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: Rand and Nineve and Min are processing the aftermath, Grandall
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: is not that far away. I think she had to
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: just make a gateway to like outside the estate. She's
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: like a mile away, yeah.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: Because she like didn't really think of any play yet in.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: The dirt, just like, oh my god, that just happened.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: That just happened.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: Right exactly, and then she hops off to her hidden
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: island that's that like no one can get to except
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: through traveling or whatever. Like she dashes off.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: Also, is nine wearing her parralesnet, because like, if she is,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: don't you think like some of her touring Riall would
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: have triggered when when Grendall was making those gateways.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: They're probably all a little bit zapped out from the
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: massive wave of bail fire that was just in their
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: immediate presence. I bet all the censors are trying to
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: recover from the from the glare. I mean, it depends
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: on how far away her gateway is. I think it
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: is just to like a mile outside the city, so
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: it should have been. But yeah, what is the range
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: my needs stuff? It might have been just out of range.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: But yeah, there's worth keeping in mind that Grandall is
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: currently in the act of shitting her pants as all
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: of this conversation is happening.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: Can I tell the other thing I really don't like
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: about this. Bailfire's effects are not supposed to be predictable.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: It is chaos. Sometimes it wipes out memories, but it's
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: not supposed to be that consistent.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: Really.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: I feel like early descriptions of bail fire are like,
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: are kind of like unweaving a weave, right is, if
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: you stop doing that, you might get a little explosion,
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: you might get a big one. And bailfire I feel
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: like it's it's the essence of chaos, and by wiping
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: someone out of existence, it might save your life, but
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: it might not. I feel like when Moraine is describing it,
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: like specifically to Matt after he gets bitten by the
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: dark Hounds, Hu, there's a lot more chaos of like, yes,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: you bail fire those dark hounds, and this time that
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: saved Matt's life, But it wouldn't always have.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she did say that, didn't she. I always
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: thought that was just a matter of timing that, like
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: you were lucky that the amount of time and the
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: strength of the bailfire worked out. But yeah, I know
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: that that is that does open the door to a
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: lot more ambiguity than we end up getting.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: Right right, and he relies on it like it's a
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 2: very sort of reliable result, like, oh, you wipe out
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: this person. The everything they do is wiped back a
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: certain amount of time, and that's just how that works.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: Like that really does seem to be a change in
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: the way of bailfire works from the beginning of the
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: series to now.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: Whether that or Mourain just didn't understand what she was
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: talking about because she hadn't seen bailfire before.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, unreliable narrator and all that.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'm just saying like Rand has been
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: using it a lot at really high powers, like he
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: kind of knows it better than she did back then.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: Could be a Sanderson thing though, but you know, or
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: it could.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: Just be that, like all those nuances matter below a
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: threshold and Rand has never done bailfire threshold once in
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: his life.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's the state change for sure.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, he just he does everything at such
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: a scale sometimes it's hard to compare it to like
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: what the Eyes to Die pre Super Girls thought was
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: even possible. You know, Like cad Swain has been the
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: highest ranked channeler in forever and she's you know, small
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: potatoes next to rand right exactly, FRUGI just hitting an
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: egg with a sledgehammer at full arm way, just like
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: as hard as he can.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: The subtleties of how the egg cracks don't really matter
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: at that point.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: No, the egg has been vaporized across exactly.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: Everyone else has been tapping with a spoon until it
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: cracks open, and like I got to make out. It's
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: like smash, I got to make out too.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: He broke everyone else's eggs, just vibration through the ground.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, so this is where we get his like
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: strategy where he's like, oh yeah, we uh have you
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: beat someone who at a game? You make you think,
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: you make them think they're playing a game, and then
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: you just punch them as hard as you can, which
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: is a very naive strategy, right, Like that's how she
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: is the.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: Way he explains Ninive's best strategy to He just ran
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: splainning two Ninive that if you hit people then you
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: can win in a magic fight. She was like, I've
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: literally done that before.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: That's how I beat Mgedion. That's how Yeah, it's good.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: It's good that they have that in common. It's that
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: two rivers training, you know, So.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: He does leave Ramchalan to walk to the nearest village
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: two days away through the forest without any supplies, which
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: is cruel but not necessarily deadly because of Ramchalan's betrayal.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: Right, right, Ramchelon was looking to undercut and betray Rant.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: Or manipulate at least, right.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: Right, And he figures that Ramchalon won't die in the
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: course of getting to a village and he'll be able
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: to live in that village to some in some way
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: for the remaining weeks that they have before the whole
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: world goes up in smoke. Because he's feeling nihilistic and
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: does I want to fight the last battle?
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: After all, I assume he from the village Ramslan would
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: try and get back to the city. They're not that far.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: They're still an aerodim on, right, so.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: Well, but I mean he's not going to be able
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: to go back into politics if Rand is no yeah,
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: dictating anything at all, right, which he might not be, like,
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but yeah, Rand doesn't care. He just
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: wants to put Raumslon on ice for two days so
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: that way he can do whatever it is he's going
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: to do. And then he just doesn't.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: Care and then again, nine Eve was very outraged because Rand,
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: you use bail fire, they were burned out of existence
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 2: and he's like, they were compelled and their minds were fried,
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: and she's like doesn't matter, Like they could have come
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: back again. Is that misconception or whatever disagreement about whether
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: or not bailfire actually does burn them out of existence forever? Right?
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, and if they did get burned out of
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: existence forever, it would have been more merciful to line
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: them all up and execute them, Like that's essentially the implication, right,
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: or use just fire or yeah, yeah, just literally shelled
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: the place with a more traditional incendiary but.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 2: That doesn't have the side effect of taking the compulsion
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: off ramsalon, so it doesn't give you that proof, right, But.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I feel like this would be a
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: way more like, oh, no, Ken, Rand come back from this.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: If he had just consigned you know, hundreds of people
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: to exiting the pattern for all time, then I'd be
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: a lot more conflicted about if this is the savior
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: we want. But if it's just, oh, that was the
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: most merciful way to kill people and put them back
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: into the regular rebirth pool, then eh, I mean, I
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: guess that's what you got to do when you're the
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: savior and grand All's hiding over there. It's more icky
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: if everyone like truly died, you know, I.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: Mean, frankly, if it doesn't hurt my chances of being reborn.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: Bail fire is a great way to go. You're dead
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: before you even though you're dead, right.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: Exactly, significantly better than firebombing or earthquake swallowing the palace
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: into a pit or whatever. Like, Yeah, it's a very
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: merciful way to go. But if it means you never
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: get reborn, now, it's complicated, right, But Jordan didn't want
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: it complicated for some reason, I disagree with his call.
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 2: And so with that, he's like, all right, get some sleep.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: We're leaving aradum On. I'm done with this place. I've
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: bailfired the for second. That's my main job. Everything else
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: is just gravy. I'm done. Let's go back up your bags.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he says, as I said, being burned out of
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: existence is a mercy. Good night. It's just like, okay,
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: so he's completely cooked nic.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: Right, which again very much Mordan's philosophy filtering into his brain.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: Through that connection, Rand thinks that's the end of it
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: nine even men disagree. They go off to find some
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: women who still have some backbone left and they try
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: to figure it out.
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: Well, there is a moment where Ninive is kind of
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: defending him, right, She's like, how many people would be
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 2: alive now if he'd been this ruthless from the start?
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I wanted to talk about this. She's convinced quickly
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: she's wrong, But like, what do we think about her
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: initial pitch here? That like, what if he has to
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: be this? Does he have to be be this? Was
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: this ruthlessness necessary?
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: I think he can be something in between which is
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: effective without necessarily ruthlessness.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: M yeah, it does you want that? You want that?
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm? And I think that's the balance he tries
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: to strike later after Veins of Gold, right, this idea
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: that he can come through, and like, partially he can
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: do that because once he hits veins of Gold, everything
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: works out in this favor because tzaveran and he's fighting
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: the dark one, right, and he can be the opposite
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: of the dark one, which is a place where everything
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: gets better. But that's not what he is now. He's
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: forsaken ran now.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because clearly what he's doing now is bad
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: and evil and terrible. Are there ways that he could
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: have done these actions without being this person?
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: And that's where she makes his point, winning will be
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: winning at all of Rand becomes something as bad as forsaken,
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: and he basically already is for all intensive purposes.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: Right, That's kind of I think the sticking point is
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: they talk through this and they realize the difference between
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: Rand now and RAND is a forsaken is basically none.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: He is all but the title of forsaken. Basically at
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: this point, it's just a matter of paperwork. He's done
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: the work.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: The means justify the ends, right, Like I need to
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: have power, and I will do whatever it takes to
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: have power, even if that means bailfiring a whole palace
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: full of people, hundreds of people.
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: Right, because that person will not make the right choice
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: when the dark one offers oblivion as opposed to some
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: version of the future. That person is going to pick
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: oblivion at best, or.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: Would have maybe picked one of those options where there
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: was nothing bad, right because he didn't want to be hurt.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: Ever again, right right, where no one gets any free
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: will or agency ever again right, Right, if he had
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: taken out Grandal.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm not even sure it was worth
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: it them. The Forsaken ended up just not being the
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: threat at the last battle. I mean, they were a
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: threat and people needed to take them down, but it
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: wasn't Rand's job.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: Grandal took down every work. You take that back.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: That's a sacrifice that he needed to make for a
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: Vianda to come into her own.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: A Vianda's poor feet.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: Daddy had to die so she could grow up. That's
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: how that works.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: I do wonder though, if it is almost merciful to
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: be taking out Grandell's minions along the way, because like
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: just the sheer, the sheer ridiculousness of what she does to.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: People, right, and who knows what sort of self sacrifice
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: they would have done if she'd actually died.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: Right exactly, Like how many people do get left in
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: the world sort of loose and hanging like mentally damaged
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: for the rest of their lives because you know, Grandell's
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: out of the picture. But they were compelled and they
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: didn't die in all the conflicts, Like, it's gonna be
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: a lot of people potentially just like not able to
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: be present for the rest of their living existence. Yeah,
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: Hopefully they have some kind of dead man switch that
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: makes them take themselves out once she's out of the picture,
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: if that's all that's left for them. But I don't know.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Is it a war crime when there's
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: magic involved? I think that's what this comes down to.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes it is. Yeah, I Neih sort of thinks about, oh,
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go off with cod Swain and figure
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: out how to handle Rand, and Men's like, I'm going
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: to figure out how to help him even though I
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: know that's what I need.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: Means yeah, yeah. Men goes along entirely to be the
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: moral compass of the people that are trying to help Rand,
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: but don't understand what helping Rand really means in terms
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: of what Rand needs. They just think that they know
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 1: what Rand needs, but they don't actually bother asking him
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: min at least asks and it gets rebuffed because Rand
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: won't communicate, but she at least asks. And this is
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: in the wake also of Ninive being like I wish
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: Morain was here. I'm realizing kad Swain is right, like
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: this is really Ninive realizing that not every eye Sadai
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: has been completely barking up the wrong tree. The entire time,
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: and wanting to lean more into that and get the
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: acceptance of the Wise Ones and kad Swain so that
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: she can be part of the lineage of is Sadai
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: who are trying to help Rand. She's very motivated to
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: get more into her eyes Sedainis as this goes on,
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: because she misses Morain. I think that that really helps
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: her wants to like participate in the isy Sadai's way
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: of doing things. But I agree with minto that, like
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: all of them are trying to handle him in a
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: way that is clearly not working, and they need to
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: be trying to help him, just support the dragon reborn.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: Why is that so much to ask?
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: I never understood that. Was he insane and he needs
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: well he doesn't need something, he needs his dad. But
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: that's a whole other discussion. As they pass Olivia, I
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: couldn't find anything significant to that.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: I think it's just there to illustrate that the Wise
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: Ones and kat Swayin aren't letting just any powerful channeler
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: who has a strong interest in Rand's fate into their conference.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: That was all I saw. Okay, just what it says
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: on the page, like, oh yeah, so people are being
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: rebuff from the door. So this is going to be
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: a hard ability check to pass.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: Got it? Kind of like seeing alvire and kicked out
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: of like the ambulance hall or going to the Sylviana's
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: Right for punishment exactly exactly. So Ninive worms her way
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: in by saying, Randall Flord just burned an entire palace
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: full of people from existence with bail fire, and God'swayin's like,
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: all right, come on in. You know, we felt the
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: world warping from here, but we did not know what
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: had caused it.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: Figured it was a bubble of evil because that would.
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: Make sense exactly what we figured about the fucking parent
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 2: to get.
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, yep, yeah, everyone's confused. Nobody's right, including us. Yeah.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: So yeah, Kat Swayn basically says, you know what, Yes,
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: Ninive walking in here is a tool I can use.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: I'm going to speak up for her to Sorillo when
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: Sorilia tries to kick her out and then looks at
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: Ninive and says, are you going to make me regret that?
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: And Ninive goes no, Kat Swayin said, I I'm going
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: to be a very obedient little gopher and do whatever
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: you need me to do with a minimum.
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: Of complaining because they're scared.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Min just gets to ride along and not have
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: to answer to anyone or do anything. Min just gets
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: to be there because she's Mint.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: Well, she's not an entity to a lot of people,
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 2: right she's And also the wise ones do see have
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: a lot of respect for her and don't see her
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 2: more as a wise one and don't feel the need
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 2: to browbeat her the way they do some of.
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: The I said, I kat Swain thinks that Min is
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: a sexy lamp. Yes, well, actually less Kat Swayin and
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: more every their eyes to die. Kats Swayn and Nieve
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: are fine, but as a rule, yeah, the channelers do
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: treatment like a sexy lamp.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: So got Swayin, you know, makes Ninivat a little crow.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: And then Well says, all right, go ahead and sit down,
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: let me tell you what you need what I need
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: you to do. And she's very circumspect about it, right,
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: because she's really looking for tam Aalthor. But she knows
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: tam Althor is with parent Abara, and she knows that
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: Rand seems to have some idea of where Paren is
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: because of the visions, right, he has some magical way
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: of knowing he's okay because of the things that have
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: been reported to her. So she essentially is saying, tells Ninive,
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: you need to find Paren. What she's not saying is
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: so that we can find Tam al Thor.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: And she knows that Tam is with Paren just because
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: of the he has a Two Rivers army with.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: Him, And oh gosh, I do not know why she
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: knows that. I think it was reported. I want to say,
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: someone came from the army and reported that Tam was
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: with Paren.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: That seems reasonable, yeah, or maybe it's just a good guess,
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: but it just she seems very assured of that. But
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: it makes sense because Tam, you know, was in the
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: Companions twenty years ago. He's a known entity to other people.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: So if he's near the head of Paren's army and
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: there's any news about them going around, then it's a
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: reasonable leap.
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: Codswayin travels to the Two Rivers to find tamouth Or
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: only to learn he is now with Paren. Oh let's see,
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: that's from the Gathering Storm chapter. So we find out
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: about that in chapter forty seven, which is where Rand
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 2: confronts him.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, she was looking for Tam and was told he's
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: with Paren. You can't get him here. You have to
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: find Paren. And then that was a challenge that she
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: ended up setting nineve to. Okay, that makes sense. That's
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: a pretty pretty definitive chain of custody. The people at
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: the Two Rivers were like, he's not here, Yeah.
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 2: And she knows how to travel, so she just traveled
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: to the Two Rivers to go get them.
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: Right, right? Simple enough? Okay, cool, that makes sense.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: So wait, is she returning from some trip that she
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: must have already gone on that trip.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she has to have already gone on that trip
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: if she's asking for it. I needs help in finding parent.
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: That means she knows already that Rand needs his dad
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: and has been trying to find him. And yes, light
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 1: blinded fool. I do also want to see a scene
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: of Kad Swaine doing a Moraine arriving in the Two Rivers.
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: But now they're all savvy to us to die and
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: it's a completely different dynamic.
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'm trying to figure out when she went and
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: visited the Two Rivers, but before.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 1: This, before this, and after Rand blowing up or her
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: and her admitting that she failed, like after Rand's exile.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: It's in a pretty narrow window of time because it
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 1: has to have happened by now, and it wouldn't have
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: happened before the exile, so but it would have only
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: taken her an afternoon, right, you know.
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's really no way to narrow it down. I
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 2: think she knows that Rand has the visions of the
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: other two boys from Men, because Men's let that slip.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: I think I don't know how Kat Swayne figured that out.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 1: It might have just been supposition. Maybe it was from
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: talking to Men. I don't know, but yeah, she's pieced
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: together enough that she's like ninety's clever. Ninive can figure
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: this out for me.
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: I think you may have even asked Rand like is
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 2: so and so okay? And she's like yes, and she's like,
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 2: how do you know? He's like, I just I just.
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: Do you know who did he have that conversation with.
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: I think it was Ninive, but I don't think it
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: was only I don't think Naive was the only person
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: in the room, so the information could have easily gotten
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: to Kad Sway through other eyes to die carefully passing
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: stuff along. The last thing I have is Kad swayin
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: is like, well, Ninive, you might be the only ice
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: to die of the current. That's worthwhile. So really, it
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: says at Igwaine's pretty cool too. Let's let's be let's
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: be fair. There's two women and coincidentally, they both come
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: from the two rivers.
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: Meanwhile, the eye said, I, who was serving them, was
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: like walking away in shame.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: Like, yeah, I know, Maurice is there like doing door
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: guard stuff, serving tea and being actively shit talked like
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: she's not even there. It's rough to be a regularized
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: to die these days.
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you think you're all powerful and shit. And meanwhile,
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: like there's cold classes of people that think you're just nothing.
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: You think you're the ship and they think you're.
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: Ship, right right, You're looking up to them, You're aspiring
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: to be like them. You have your favorite one that
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: you're extra excited about. They're like, who are you just
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: they don't even care. It's terrible, Yeah, it's terrible.
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't like to do reverse. I neive a
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 2: GWayne brand that's.
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: Three for three. Yeah, and they like paren too. They
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: travel with has a whole ideal contingent. So and Matt
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: doesn't get murdered by Iyeo so yeah, totally so yeah, yeah,
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 1: no he does. Yeah, so they like the two They're
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: like everyone from the Two rivers. And yeah. Other than that,
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: all I have is the readout, go for it. Ninive
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: nodded reluctantly, and the others turned to a discussion of
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: how much strain from bailfire the pattern could take before
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: unraveling completely. Ninive listened in silence, obviously trying to glean
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: more about Katswain's plans, though there didn't seem to be
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: many clues. Men only half listened. Whatever the plan, someone
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 1: would need to watch out for Rand. His deed this
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 1: day would be destroying him inside. No matter what he proclaimed,
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 1: there were plenty of others to worry about what he
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: would do at the last battle. It was her job
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: to get him to that last battle alive and sane,
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 1: with his soul in one piece somehow. Honestly, I think
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: she fails on all three things. I think everything that
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: I think about it, like, he's not really alive at
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: the end, with the whole body swapping one of them
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 1: dying there.
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, but he has the will to live, so
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 2: up in the body that does live.
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: And then runs away from his wives. So even his
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: will to live is not related to what Min does.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: He's clearly not sane and a lot of his insanity
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: is attributed to trauma that she helped create by being
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: a liability. And his soul is empirically not in one piece.
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: His soul is like echoing itself. It's blending with another person,
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: Like there's half a soul and then two other half souls.
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: So there's one and a half souls that from three
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: different people. Like a love Min. She's not a sexy lamp.
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: She's doing her best, but unfortunately I think she kind
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: of fails in a lot of ways. And a lot
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 1: of Rand's resolutions don't really seem to revolve around anything
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: she did. His insights up on the mountain are all
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: about Iyena. It's all about we can live again. Like
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: there's nothing that specifically references men.
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 2: Well, it is the love from her, and the no
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 2: veins of gold is the love from men, Like that's
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 2: the whole point of the men in Navienda and Lane.
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 2: But it is, like, the whole point is that he
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: realizes he gets to love again.
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: By seeking out il Yana, who's not even there, Like,
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I find veins of Gold to be hollow.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: In some ways, I love Min, I want her to
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: feel integral to the winning at the end, But instead
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, he's got three girlfriends, one of them
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: likes books. She devotes her whole life to this, and
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: she's just one of three. That helps prove the point
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: about a fourth.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: Well, for me, it's she figures out how to you
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: have to break the seals and about Calendor, how to
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: trap shameyo.
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but none of that has to do with Rand's
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: mental health. That's all technical magic stuff.
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 2: I just assume she's being there as support.
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: Sometimes sometimes you can't fix your partner, you just have
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: to be there to support them.
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: I just wish that Rand thought about how valuable that
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: was a little bit more explicitly.
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: Yes, he could do that.
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: But nobody's making good choices, nobody's communicating. Min is not
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: a sexy lane, but she is definitely in her most
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: sexy lamp appearing phase.
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: And they're all young twenties.
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: Some things one does have to remember that even though
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 1: we have aged past our young twenties, these people have not.
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 2: All Right.
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: Well, that was a long recording. I was not sure
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: how long that was going to because it felt like
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: such an action scene, but also there's so much metaphysics.
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: There was a lot going on in that one. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 2: there was a lot because and the action scene itself
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: is very abrupt and very short, and then there's a
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: lot of consequences to talk about. Yeah, so I knew
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: that was going to be a long one for us,
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 2: but yeah, no, that was That was a good one.
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: I enjoyed. I enjoyed talking about that one. That's one
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: of the Again, we're on the sander Lanch right because tomorrow, yes,
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 2: or next week, I should say, we are doing your
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 2: dresses green. And then we got we got the battle
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: at the White Tower. Right after that, there's some and
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 2: then there's some rand chapters, and there's veins of gold,
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 2: and then there's like and yeah, and that's that's the
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: end of the book. So there there's a lot going
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 2: on in the next few episodes. We are definitely in
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 2: sand or Lanche territory, where every chapter is significant and
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 2: important from here on out.
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, we said we're gonna do some of
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: these as doubleheaders because plot reasons, but we'll see.
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: They might be long recordings.
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: Let's try to get here on time. Maybe even early
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: next week.
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it sounds good. It sounds good.
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 1: Thank you all so much for being here. We will
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: be back with more insanity and yeah, don't forget to
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: sign up for my support group on Thursdays.
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 2: Thanks and thanks again to our patreons. You guys rock.
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, it seems like the gut is ultimately coming
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: in as the answer for like most things, and even
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: if it's not directly involved, like your overall health and
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: mental state are so related to the gut that it's
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: like it can't, I cannot, you know, you really got
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: to figure out what the hell's going on with your
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: gut first, for like literally everything we.
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: Are flesh robots, and like we're not just like our
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: brains aren't just standalone CPUs, you know, like everything we
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 2: exist inside our bodies, right Like yeah.
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 1: And like half the cells of our bodies aren't us,
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: right right, Like we have so many other creatures that
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: use us as an eCos system, and we use them
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 1: and they are distinctly different animals quite literally, And the
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: gut is, yeah, where a lot of that's happening, Like
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: we have a community that we are engaged with.
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: Well, because if you think about it, in a lot
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: of ways, the gut is still outside of you, right,
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 2: if we're donuts and our gut is our donut hole.
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: Right, that's the surface that the outside world is contacting.
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 2: Is in contact to it, right, Like it's our skin
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: and our gut, and like we control what goes into
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: our gut a little bit because we have two you know, orifices,
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: and those have god, what's the word I'm looking for, sphincters.
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: We have sphincters at either end that we can control, right,
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 2: so we can swallow food and control what stuff comes
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 2: out of us. But like, yeah, in a lot of ways,
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: that's that's that it's still kind of the outside world,
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: Like it's weird.
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: Well that's why it's like if you get like an
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: injury to the abdomen, you're so incredibly fun right right.
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: It's like because now containment has been breached between your
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: insides and that like outside that runs through your insides.
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: And yeah, that you have there's a lot of stuff
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: in your tube that should not be in the rest
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 2: of your body cavity.
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, hell, your stomach alone.
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but like when you open up someone's body cavity,
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 2: like there's not a lot of it's not like people
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: aren't like full of liquid, right, Like, no, anyway.
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the conversation. We're counting the sphincter.
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: Oh god, oh I love. And then there's the videos
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 2: that are always fun, are like how many holes are
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 2: in a person? And then you have to okay, how
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: do you define a hole? Right? Does a straw have
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: one hole? Two holes? No holes? Is right? A whole hole?
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: Is it a whole hole?
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: Because they're basically a straw with a couple other holes
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 2: stuck in it, right? M.
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The whole concept of of what what your meat
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 1: suit is versus your free will, it's kind of fucked up.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: And yeah, then you end up doing topography and it's bad.
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 1: It's turtles all the way down.
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: Topography and nomenclature two things I never want to do again, honestly. Right,
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: it just feels pointless. It's just like, Okay, you're just
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 2: defining things for the sake of defining them. I know
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: it's not true, but like, it just feels so arbitrary
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: to me in a way that some other hard sciences
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 2: don't mm hmmm m.
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: And yet every one of those hard sciences ends up
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: bumping up against that stuff. If you dig hard enough.
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 2: It's like, oh yeah, no, absolutely, topography and knots might
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: be like fundamental to our universe, right, like it might
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 2: be what everything is in some ways. But there's things
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: I leave to smarter people, so or people who are
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 2: better at their field. I'm just gonna trust that they've
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 2: got that.
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, then hope that they make cool, relatable, easily consumed
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: on YouTube you can feed us.
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That's also why I could not even get to
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 2: my minor in math, because there was a point where
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 2: I had to just stick with engineering because that anchored
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: the math and something real to me.
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: M Yeah, Brandon got his masters in like a much
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: more applied thing, but he, in hindsight, wishes he had
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: been able to stay with pure math. He was having
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 1: so much fun there and really really enjoyed it, but
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: you know, went with the what will get me a
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 1: job path.
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: So Brandon seems like the kind of smart who would
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 2: enjoy pure abstract math.
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: The more purely abstract, the happier he was. And he'd
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: explain his homework to me and I was just smiling.
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: I don't understand why you have so many pieces of
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: paper with brackets and ones and zeros on them. But
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: if it makes you happy, go off.
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: Whereas for me, I love things like differential equations because
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: that really describes how every like thing moves in the world. Right,
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 2: everything influences each other, And how do you do that?
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 2: Differential equations? Right, Like, that's movement in our wa world.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 2: If if linear equations are how things move by themselves,
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: differential equations is how things move in relationship to each other.
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmmm. And then there's my grandfather, my other grandfather,
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 1: who is deeply involved in isology, which is what are measurements?
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: How do we know that we measured something?
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah? That's fun.
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's deep, deep, deep levels of isology, like
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: out there arguing with people about what even is zero?
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: And like no one in my family except Brandon can
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: even follow him when he talks about like the top level,
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 1: ten thousand foot view of what it is he does.
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: He like goes around the world going to conferences, and
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 1: like no one can understand the abstracts of what he
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 1: is presenting except for Brandon. Brandon can follow it. It's
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: really cool.
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 2: Yay doctor, They're like, okay, enough math distracted with dogs.
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: I have Harvey here at my he is being extremely sweet.
• 1:41:03
  Speaker 2: We have now crossed the three month threshold with him,
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 2: and he is only a little demon these days. He's
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 2: now a very sweet dog. A couple of bad behaviors
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 2: are still left, but for the most part, he is
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: no longer acting like a crazy crackhead that we brought
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 2: into our house and more like a good dog. And
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 2: he's learned tricks at a very high rate and he's
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 2: a very sweet dog right now. So yeah, I'm very
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 2: happy with Harvey. It's nice to have a good boy.
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: Had another dog in chat. Yes that's a mop That's
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: a well behaved mop right there, Muppet. Yeah, that's true.
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: I've seen mopier dogs.
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 2: Really a moppet if you would.
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 1: I'm still dogless. That's my update. That's not okay, Brandon
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: his dog sitting today. I could be with my dog
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 1: in law, but I had multiple meetings today and I
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: was like, I don't want to go. I want to
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: stay home instead of dog sitting. But I could be
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: with a dog. I could be showing pictures of a
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: dog right now, but I'm not because I am selfish
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: and I stay at home where my recording studio is.
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: That's a nice bridge, I mean, good dog. Also, that's
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: a nice bridge.
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a little trellis over a train track by
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 2: the dog park.
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it totally looks like a train track. Train
• 1:42:31
  Speaker 1: tellis that's what looked familiar to me about it.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: And then that's him with a just crazy big stick
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 2: that he picked up and carried and picked up and
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 2: whipped me with it really hard because he picked up
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: one end of it and just you know how if
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 2: he get picks up one and the other end moves
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 2: a lot and just man smacked me in the leg,
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 2: Like that's a good dog. Yeah it's a big stick.
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 2: Then he's a strong dog.
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: One of my friends, older man, last year, found a
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: little feral scrap of a dog and recently made a
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 1: post through his business page being like, yeah, this is
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: this is the business dog scrappy. He's mine, now he's
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: it's a handful of a dog. But I guess, you know,
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: found wandering on a rural road and you have to
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 1: take him in and then pretty soon the dog hasn't left.
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: A tiny little handful of a dog with a little
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: jacket on, you know, like just so tiny, so tiny,
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: like Harvey could crush him without noticing. Kind of tiny.
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'll tell you what else He's crushed
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 2: with that, noticing Jesus.
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: The'se nuts these nuts.
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 2: Oh god, Yeah, there was a moment he jumped on
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 2: me eye jackknife, knocked his arms, her legs into Never's throat.
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 2: She went choking. It's just like we were both rolling
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 2: in pain. Harvey's sitting there like, what did I do?
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 2: What's wrong? He's a really big puppy. He's sixty three
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 2: pounds at last measurement at eleven months, so not you know,
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 2: there are bigger dogs. He's probably going to top out
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: at like seventy pounds. He's not going to hit the
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 2: ninety one hundred, you know, one hundred and ten pounds
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 2: size that some of the bigger dogs can get to.
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 2: But he's no forty five pound dog. Thirty pound dog
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 2: he was. He's grown. So anyway, I can talk about
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 2: dogs all day. I love dogs. But let's talk about
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 2: something else that I can talk about all day, which
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: is Wheel of Time.
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 1:44:32
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• 1:44:34
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• 1:44:39
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• 1:44:42
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• 1:44:45
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