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CTK:32 - Ball Size Debate to Referee Controversies · Cut The Kak

• Byron: Welcome to another episode of Cut the Cuck. I'm Byron, that fool over there is Chad, and in the show we talk about the sport that we absolutely love but still know nothing about. Chad, welcome, it's Cut the Cuck. Chad: Cut it. I think we're gonna have to change your intro a little bit because every single thing, well not every single thing, most of the things that we've spat out into the world, all the cuck that we've spoken, most of it's coming into existence. Byron: Okay? This, I think, this is the crazy part. So ⁓ think no one's watching us, but someone must be watching us because we about this before it a topic of discussion. ⁓ The rugby ball for ⁓ men's game, women's game. I know we a lot of shit when it comes to fixtures and results and. Chad: What is this? ⁓ yeah. Byron: That stuff that happens, that also blows my mind. But this rugby ball thing is something I didn't expect. I don't know if you expected it. But a few weeks back, we were talking about the women's game. And you said if they play with a size four ball, it's better for them. There'll be less handling errors. Their hands are smaller, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And now, and I would say in the last week, every time I'm online, Chad: It's, yeah. Byron: All I see is, I ⁓ one of the good things is that it's ⁓ professional rugby players that are leading the conversation. Instead of, we spoke about it physiologically, you got Ajay Sneiman grabbing the ball, no matter the biggest woman rugby will never have the same size hands as him. Chad: Yeah. I mean granted, % of humans as whole, species don't the same size hands as him. Byron: Yeah. So then it's even lower chance of it being a professional female rugby player who's got the same size hand. So you said, why don't they play with a size four ball? All of a sudden, there's a competition coming up, global series, they're going to play with a size four and a half. Which I didn't know was a thing, by the way. I didn't know they made half thousands in rugby balls. But a size four and a half, and now the discussion has blown up. Chad: Yeah. I'd not either. Byron: Is it better for the game? Is it disrespectful for the game? said leave it as is, you said change it, it's better for the game. Now seen from both sides that people agree and people disagree. Where do you still stand on your smaller size ball? Chad: I reckon, I mean, look, after we see how it goes with this series coming up, I think we'll have a decent answer, but I still stick with it. I think it'll be, be able to see more of those long zinger passes, more heading off the ball. And yes, obviously it's going to be a bit of a, feeding it period because obviously the women have been playing with the size five ball for the last however many years. Byron: Yeah, I think in terms of kicking, it's one of the maybe the biggest change. Chad: 100 % but you don't kick 100 times like kick for what 10 % of the game? You barely passed. You barely did anything. Byron: I never kick, so. I think I can pass further than I can kick, to be honest with you. Chad: yeah but no i think it'll be good i think ⁓ it'll be fun be good to see i think Byron: It is interesting, think we were talking about it before the show, there was a clip with Portia Woodman and she was saying that, you know, she grew up playing with the size 5, she's always played with the size 5, should always play with the size 5 and the other lady on the podcast, sorry I don't know her name, she was saying that it makes more sense to be with the size 4.5 because they have more freedom with the ball and it is Chad: Mm. Byron: physiological difference and I think the term that she used is pretty interesting as well. She said we're trying to play the sport as if we're smaller men instead of taking us as women and making the game the best it can be for women. So it's just taking the men's game and replacing it with women. I thought that was an interesting perspective as well. Chad: Hmm And no, actually, I think that's spot on because if we look at how successful the Women's World Cup was, the last one, and that wasn't a piggyback off of how the men did it. It was completely, completely different and it was a huge success. Massive. Probably the best one ever, I reckon. So yeah, I don't think... Byron: Absolutely. Yeah. Chad: It is a bit weird where it's such a men versus women's discussion. I don't think it should be. It's just the game. ⁓ But we'll find out. We'll find out next this time next year. We'll have enough data to understand where we are. yeah, excited. I think it's going to be good. I think we're going to see a more longer passes. Byron: Should be a rugby discussion. Yeah. Yeah. Chad: Especially if you've been playing with a size five ball your whole life and you can get a size even half size. I don't know what that actually feels like. I know the size four. I've got one at home and I can NFL pass that thing 600 meters. Byron: ⁓ What I think we're going to see a big increase in as well are going to be offloads. Because they'll have just the confidence to do it, but they'll have a better grip of the ball on one hand ⁓ the offload. Look, we'll never know the answer until it happens. I think that... Chad: Yeah. Yep. Yep. Byron: We've seen it. We saw it in the Varsity Cup, trialing a new law. currently watching it in the MLR, where they're trying a new law. This a little different to a new law, because it's a new piece of equipment, which is the most important part of equipment for the game. But we can talk as much as we want about it. But we'll only know after the fact. And then we've got to hear it from the ladies that were involved in the competition. ⁓ Chad: ⁓ sorry. Yeah, 100%. It'll be interesting to see if... It'll be interesting to see if the... Because they have... I've seen a lot of disagreement with the change from current players. I wonder if their perspective will change after they've played a season with a small ball. Byron: They're the only ones who can really tell us. Well, I mean, we'll know in a few months because it's happening. So it's not like it is it happening or if it's happening. It's happening and we'll know. Look, if it's a complete failure, it's pretty easy. You go back to the size five. If it's successful, maybe they play with a four and a half or a bit and then they're trial of four in a smaller comp. I don't know, but it's a. Chad: Yeah. Yep. Yeah, it's nuts. I think a four and a half, I think, yeah, I think a four and a half is the right. I know, but it makes more sense that you said that now that I know there's a thing, it makes more sense. But it's not, it's not like a size four and a size five is there's a noticeable difference, but a four and a half would be. I think that that happy medium. Byron: You say that, you didn't even know it existed until a week ago. It's not a kids ⁓ ball. It would be nice, because we spoke about this as well, I think it would be nice if that ball further when it comes to kicking for touch. Chad: Well, it would, because... Byron: because yeah, but I don't know how different the kicking technique is. Again, I don't anything about kicking. But think it would be really cool if that ball gets more distance when kicking for touch, because I feel like that's one of the big differences in the game is the of meters made when kicking for touch and things like that, up and unders. ⁓ But yeah, ⁓ that. I speaking of women in rugby, Chad: Yeah. Yeah. Byron: Shout out to Amy Turan for 50 plus. Is it 52? Chad: 52. Yep, I think it's going to be a 53rd most kept. Byron: 52 refereeing caps. Chad: of re... ever. Byron: Shout out to Amy Turan. Woo! Chad: Just another record for South Africa, huh? Working good. Byron: I mean, you know, if we do love the sport. weekend, did my completed my L1 for So it's official. Thank you, Thank you. I am official. I am no longer a weird man just running around on the field. guess I am a weird man running around the field. ⁓ But I'm a qualified weird man running on the field now. Chad: That's good. You're an official referee. Just a qualified weird man running around the field. Byron: It was really cool. It was a full ⁓ day. It started at nine. I got home. I left there just after five. through some theory. Went different ways of approaching the laws. Different ways of approaching the game, which I thought was pretty cool. So how to think about making your decisions, where the information comes from, what you're for. I thought I doing an okay job before this, but they pointed out At least for me, I've noticed a lot of places where I was making errors can get better. One of the cool things was ⁓ watched us referees. There were two different instructors there. They watched us referee and then gave us pointers ⁓ what we should be doing better and that sort of thing. So there are referee coaches, which again, all new to me, didn't know this was a thing. ⁓ So yeah, you get like a Chad: That's crazy. Byron: that will watch you ref and then give you pointers at half time. What's going well, what went wrong, you can improve. So one of the things for me after I ref'd, one of the big things was my And she like, I did the same thing when I started. It's called a chariot position. ⁓ I can you something new here, Chad. And that is when it's one of the easier places for like a starting referee to try and stay out of the way of play. Chad: Yep. Byron: but still get a view on the rucks. You're kind of hanging out behind the ruck, behind the offensive line as it's playing. But she said, what I've got to start practicing is being more confident in getting closer to the ruck and almost standing in the defensive line while watching the game. So get in once the ball secure, move out into the defensive line so that you're already moving towards the next ruck as the game's going on. Chad: You who's really good at that and keeps getting hit? It's Angus Gardner. He keeps getting bombed. Byron: But that's what I'm so scared of. Like, I don't mind now at the moment that I'm playing with like people that are smaller than me, because they're all half my age. But when there's big boys out on the field and they're all bigger than I am, I want to be taken out like Angus Gardner. He's been flatlined before. ⁓ Chad: I know. And then last week, I think he also got really close on being chopped down. Yeah. That's, that's good. Byron: Yeah, yeah. So, I've got a, I've got a seventh tournament this Saturday. No, yes. Seventh tournament this Saturday, 10th tournament the next Saturday. And the. but I've got stuff lined up and then there's a ⁓ big beach competition, that they've asked me to referee at at the end of June. so that's, you it's happening. ⁓ I'm starting move into more official games, which is exciting and, you know, come give me shit just as I would give the other referee shit. So it's ⁓ fun. Chad: that'll get the calves going. Mmm. That's good, that's cool. That's so, cool. think the next intake will only be next year. I'm going to follow your path and see what happens. Byron: Do it. You also realize how much is going on in the referee's head and how easy it is to skip stuff. Yeah. Chad: Yeah I know. I've got a question. For when you were there on Saturday, how many referees were doing the same course as you in the Netherlands? Byron: Great question. So the way that it works is you can either go online, find out where the next event is, like the next training, and you can just, if you're part of the club, you can sign up and you can go to a different club and be part of the training. it does depend on numbers, you know, they're not gonna put in, because it's hosted by World Rugby, it wasn't hosted by Rugby Netherlands, was World Rugby, the trainers were from World Rugby. Chad: Yeah. Okay. Byron: But what you can do is if your club has enough interested members in doing the L1, then they'll host it at your club. So for us, for example, we had, we were playing what, seven of us? There were about 15, 16 of us, but only of that group two were actually looking to take refereeing seriously. The other guys who got their L1, were to get to know the game better. And it was also the captains that were there. So that they know what referees are looking for. And then as the captain of the side, they know how to speak to the ref to say, hey, you're not seeing this or you're not seeing that, or maybe you're interpreting it this way, but can you maybe look at it from this different angle? So I thought that was really cool and smarter than to include the captains, even though they're not gonna referee. Yeah. Chad: Mmm. Alright. Yeah, no, I think that's really good. Yeah. They need to do that stuff more in... ⁓ a younger age group, I reckon. That'll be fantastic for the game. Byron: So. Yeah, we had a lot ⁓ from, but I would say between the ages of 16 and 18, and then a few guys that were playing in the senior side, so, you know, 20 plus. But lot of them were on the younger side, especially the captains, they had the captains from like the much smaller groups. Chad: Yeah, it's pretty cool. Sorry. Byron: Speaking of great refs, we already shouted out Amy Turon. I got one more point on refereeing and then I'll shut up about it. Actually, no, I've got some more referee shit to give. But a shout out to Holly, you know, great Holly Davison. The, ⁓ want to get the, it was the Connacht Monster game. I don't know if you watched the game, but there was a call to check the TMO for a late tackle ⁓ Prendergast and Chad: Yep. the kick. Byron: You could hear the TMO saying what they were seeing and Holly already made up her mind. She knew exactly what she wanted to do. No penalty, but warn Prendergast for simulation. And I was like, look, the contact there did not warrant your response. And if you do that again, you're going off. And I was like, fucking ⁓ of that, more of that. Chad: Yeah. And it's one of the things I absolutely love about how Holly and Amy, it's they, I'll you, there's a clip of Amy, one of the games where there was a of a scuffle or something ⁓ at the scrum or something that happened. And she's like, I'm not mad. I'm just disappointed. You guys both promised me before the game that this wouldn't happen. And Byron: I know the clip you're talking about. Chad: I love it. It's one of my favorite referee clips up there with Nigel Owens. he says this is not soccer, this is rugby. It's ⁓ there with those. But both of ⁓ women don't take Huck at all. What the... They take Huck at all. And they will just call it. And Holly already knows. She's made up her mind. Once her mind's made up, it's done. You can bring her... And nine out of ten times she's right. Byron: Yeah, I mean, we've spoken about it before. There's times where the TMO is still deliberating and she's made up her mind and she says, thank you, I've seen enough. Here's my decision. And we move on. Pure class. Chad: Yeah, she's like. Yeah. And yeah, she's, I love it. think, ⁓ the game. So when you are big and strong, Byron, and you are refereeing, be like both of those, those amazing referees. Byron: Yeah, sure. Let me just be like the best. Well, you know what? bar can actually be pretty low. I know we will dive into the games in a second, but since we're talking about referees, Reds versus Chiefs ⁓ have had ⁓ of the worst refereeing performances I've seen in a long time. Chad: Yeah, just one job bar. Be good. ⁓ my god. Who was that? Who was that referee? Byron: Do you mind looking up the name? I just... wasn't that he was just blowing against the Reds. It was that he was just missing so much of what was happening in between. Chad: Reds first. Byron: And then... Chad: He's a second year New Zealand referee. Marcus... Pully. Yeah. Yeah, something like that. Byron: Marcus Pally? Well shout out Marcus Pully. Get a coach buddy, get a referee coach. Maybe it was a bad day. Let's give him a little bit of benefit of the doubt, but you can't continue to ref like that. Chad: Yeah, that was rough. Byron: And then at half time, the reds try. Chad: But when I was, yeah. Byron: referee, ⁓ TMO fucked that one up as well. Chad: Yeah, but it was the whole... it was the whole... Yeah, it was the whole group. They just had a... I don't know if it was just a bad night. But it was not good. Byron: It was the whole group! But the referee, didn't even, score, you watch one, there was one angle where it was clear and obvious ball went over the line, touch grass, should be a try. But the TMO as well, they didn't even look at all that was going on around it. There was an offsides for that try as well. You know, so you don't go, even if you, even if there's, you know, they say it needs to be clear and obvious. If you ignore that angle where it was clear and obvious, you say no trial, bald, held up, whatever you want to call. You should then go back to the offside penalty. You don't just fucking blow the whistle and go to half time like. Chad: Yeah. Yep. Byron: The part about that that is wild for me is the TMO normally looks at the bigger picture as well when leading up to the trial, the phases before, the phases. No one looked at the offside line. Chad: It's also up to the, wasn't there Advantage 2 before that? Byron: No, there was advantage in other parts of that play, but not that particular one. But there should have been an advantage to offside. Chad: Yeah, so I'm pretty sure you should have gone back to his advantage. That's the referee's... Roll. He should say, okay, cool. Byron: You should have asked, so everyone's looking at the ball going over the line. But as the referee, you're right, as the referee, you need to look at the bigger picture and look at what's happening there. You can also. Chad: Yeah. And remember that you're still playing advantage. Yeah, I was, I was tough. Byron: was yeah, so you know, they are low bars and hard bars for referee. I hope to be one of the higher buyers, but let's see what happens. I'm just starting out. So yeah, that's a nice little introduction to the nonsense that's going on in World Rugby at the moment. You want to dive into the fixtures and results? Chad: Sure. What are we doing first? You can do the... You're the results man. Byron: from this weekend. Allaq. I like Super Rugby first just because where I'm from it's the games happened before the URC games. Chad: Yep, makes sense. Byron: First game of the weekend must have made you happy. Crusaders beating the Blues 36-20. Chad: That was a really fun game. That was a great way to start my Friday. Byron: It was. I don't know what it was, the Blues just, they lacked something against the Crusaders on Friday. Chad: The Crusaders were just... everything just seemed to be happening for them. Everything they doing was just really, really... Byron: Mm-hmm. Chad: coming off, everything was being pulled off that first half. It was tight, it wasn't, was 12, 13 at half time. But then second half was good. mean the... ⁓ Byron: Teng Shui. Caleb Clarke a different human. I don't even know if you can classify him as a human. He is insane. Chad: No. I cannot wait. The more, the closer that we get to the greatest rivalry and the more that I see the key players that we assume are going to be in the All Black squad. It's exciting. I know a couple of months ago I was like, oh no, we're going to blow them out of the water. It's going to be walk in the park. They've got no coach. They've got no this. I am. Byron: exciting. Also, Chad: I could, delete that episode. But the incident is forever. Byron: No, I'm glad it exists because then I will be right for a change. Chad: Yeah, no, it's the plays are unreal. It's good. It's going to be. Byron: Even the Australian players, I feel like the way this season of Super Rugby is gone, Australia might have a chance to be competitive in the Nations... Championship? Nations Cup? the fuck it's called. I'm also excited to see the Australian sides come together. We touched on it briefly. Reds lost to the Chiefs 31-21. Debatable. because if you go into half time with an extra seven points. Chad: That game shouldn't count. They need to read that they need to run back. Like in that gap between the end of the rounds and the finals, they just need to run that game back. Yeah, get, get, get, gets Holly gets someone, anyone. Byron: It was so, so snow poor. and let them replay that match with a real referee. Get Holley! ⁓ next? ⁓ beating the Tars by five points. Good game. Chad: That was also a real, real good one. Tava Tava Nauai is an absolute champion. Byron: It is ridiculous. I want to talk a little later about utility players. Obviously, Andre Esterhason ⁓ Lester Faanganuku. What's your opinion on him also being a utility player? Chad: 100 % when I first saw Tava Tawanawa, so he plays for the Tasman Marcos here went to my first game watched him he was on the wing and stadiums tiny so literally like on the field the bro is he's a lot shorter than all the other wings there's like Will Jordan, Maka who are all ⁓ really a little bit smaller like thinner than Tava Tawanawa. Tava Tawanawa is as wide as it is short and it's all muscle. is ⁓ Byron: They can't move him off the ball. Chad: But that's the thing, when I saw him, the first time I watched him play, he was on the wing and that's where he was playing. had number 14 on his back. And I was like, this oak should not be in here. He should be at least inside center. Cause he had to get the ball and it's like a missile. They were just went straight. And then same thing. He would make a tackle, get up, steal the ball. And it happened over and over and over again. And I was like, I don't know why this oak's on the wing. He's being wasted on the wing. Byron: Surely not. Yeah. He's crazy. is great at inside center. Chad: Absolutely. He could be an absolute fantastic... 8. Easy. Byron: Seven, six, seven, I think. Chad: I think it's a bit short for a seven or a six, but I think an 80 could do. ⁓ Byron: at eight. He's a he's a problem. He is a problem. Chad: I was so excited to see him play against South Africa last year. But he got injured, fucked up his arm. And yeah, I'm keen to see him play again, because yeah, him versus... And when I think about it, I'm thinking him versus forward. So obviously, I know we're going to go into the utility talk later. Byron: Yeah. Well we can do it now because we can talk about the three of them. There's Lester, there's Andre and now him. And is this the next evolution of rugby? Chad: Yeah. I reckon it is, I think, and I don't know if it was Rossi or another international coach has said it, but like if you don't have one of them, even on coming off of your bench, you're probably going to be short, especially if you're playing against a South Africa or a New Zealand where you've got someone on the bench that can come off and cover both spots. Give yourself more options. 6-2. Byron: Because you want to have a 6-2 split, right? 7-1. Chad: I know. Byron: If at this point if you've got someone like Quacha, you've got Andre, you've got Leith, they can play almost anywhere outside of say Scrum Half, Fly Half and Fullback. Chad: Prop. Yeah. Byron: It would be a waste, but quokka on the wings, not the worst thing imaginable. Chad: No, I mean he sevens he yeah, No, it's unreal. Who do you think's done it better? take Tabatao Naoa out because he hasn't played Byron: He hasn't done it, but it would be fun to watch him there. ⁓ I think we have to wait to see how Lester does it on the international stage. Because you hear him talk about it now and he's like, I've played rugby for X number of years and now I'm playing a completely different sport. ⁓ a, he's playing at seven. Chad: Yeah, he's the dream for being there. He's the perfect candidate. Yeah. Mm. You make a good point about seeing if you can do it at international level because... If you asked me today, especially after the last week game where he was hitting grubbers and... Byron: Up and unders, offloads, chip kicks. Chad: I think he does it better than And Andre's done amazing things in that spot. Byron: What I think the best thing that's happened for Andres game is what he's learned from that. And when he plays at center now, he's a fucking animal when he plays at center. He's playing center as if he were a flank. Chad: Yes. Yeah, it's unreal. So it'll be... exactly what he's doing. And he was already dangerous. Byron: Yeah, and it's so scary. I'm so happy I'm not in that defensive line. Chad: But I reckon Leicester's doing that hybrid player position better than Andre yesterday's and is doing it. Byron: But again, we haven't seen it yet against, let's say, against England, against South Africa, against France. ⁓ a good yardstick to know for sure. Chad: Yeah. Yeah, if Leicester can play that position, play flank and then be hitting up and unders and grubber kicks off the line. Byron: How dangerous is that become offset players? Chad: terrible. ⁓ don't like a spoon. It's horrible. Can you imagine off of a scrum, Lester peels off, picks the ball up, he's a grubber and you've got Will Jordan sending down the middle or Barrett or you name it, Tava Tava Ngawai at inside center chasing that ball. It would be... Byron: ⁓ rugby is such an exciting sport! Chad: It's going to be such a great year for the internationals. I'm excited. I might have to get myself an All Blacks jersey just in case. Yep. It might have to be done. I'll send you one too. I'll get Bumfadu Express ship one over to the Netherlands. Byron: It would be a waste of money. Chad: Who are you going to support? So, we've obviously got a injury crisis at the moment in the spring box. So say we don't make it to the final. I'm pretty sure we will. And New Zealand versus England. ⁓ Byron: Okay. Then I get to hate watch the final. What do you want from me? Chad: You gotta pick, who you picking? Byron: I can't pick England. I can't pick England. It has to be the All Blacks in that game. Chad: You gotta pick. It's not a... Okay. Okay. Byron: But I'll also, like if the All Blacks lose, I won't be mad. Chad: You're a mad man. Byron: Yeah, that's clear and obvious. Don't need the TMO for that one. Chad: Yeah, we've gone off the rails here, Byron. We've only been... Byron: It's okay, who cares, we're not, nothing's real. where were we? We're talking Super Rugby, Highlanders, okay. Chad: We were at Moana Pacifica vs the Canes. You were bang on. But I mean the game did not look like it was going that way. Moana was doing for the first half. It was 5-19. I'm looking ⁓ my notes here. Byron: 50, baby! Yeah, but the same thing last week against the Blues. Against the Blues last week, they held on for what is it, 54 minutes, 60 minutes, it all fell apart. ⁓ with the Canes. You know, I think to, ⁓ this is with all respect because again, they're all better than you and I ever would be. But I just don't think that they have the class. So in order to compete with like the Blues last week and the Canes this week, Chad: 60 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Byron: They have to put in a higher level of effort to achieve that like par result. And you can't do that for 80 minutes. You can't play it 100 % for 80 minutes. And I think that's what just catches them as the game wears on is they're trying and playing so hard that eventually they just run out of gas. And they don't have as much depth when it comes to... Chad: Yeah. Yeah. Byron: their extended squad. And then the disappointment of the weekend, Brambies beat the force. Would have been nice to be the force to have a win there. Chad: I don't think that was a disappointment. I think it was... Byron: It was expected, but it's disappointing because I would have liked to see the force go on a winning streak against the others. Chad: Yeah. I it. Disappointing but expected. I like it. such an insult. Byron: Yeah. I mean, it's the force fucking I'll never forget when I watched the cats and I'll talk about this all the time cats versus the force at Ellis Park. Both teams were bottom of the log and they drew 14 14. Chad: is why you have such a hate for them. Byron: And from that day onwards, I just knew that there was no hope for these fucks. Chad: Well, I'm pretty sure we'll never get any of them in the pod after that comment. Byron: Ugh. is what it is. ⁓ Then you want to do the predictions for next week? Chad: This was... Sure, hit me. Byron: There's one game less, which is weird. So there's only four games next week. We've got Chiefs at home to the Highlanders. Chad: cheers. ⁓ Byron: Yep. Druer at home to Waratahs. Chad: A little bit of an one. Byron: Mm-hmm. Chad: look oh yeah actually let me have a look at this wheel log i want to go i want to go Fiji but i also think that the tires yeah i don't fucking Fiji Byron: Especially if you look at the log. I'd love for a draw win. I'd love for a draw win. Okay, with you there. Then obviously the game of the weekend, Blues Hurricanes. Chad: You have to go Cain's Yeah, no, even though it's I'm assuming in Eden Park. No, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go Cain's Byron: Can't bet against hurricanes at the moment. Yep, I'm with you on that one. And then force first the reds. Chad: Rich. Byron: We know what's going on. Okay, that's the Super Ragas for the weekend. Then let's quickly do the pen ultimate round of URC. We had Glasgow crushing Cardiff 40-17. Then the Ulster Stormers game drew 38-38. What a game. Chad: Yeah. What a game. Did not see that coming. Would not have picked that. Do you how many people lost money on that game? Because I can guarantee you there was like three people in the entire world that picked a draw. Byron: You know, last week, no one picked a draw. pick the draw. I joked, was like, oh, I hope the Stormers win and then Verna Koch gets a try or something like that. That's how it goes and it goes ahead and scores that trick. Chad: did this. Yeah, ⁓ on you, Byron. I hope the whole of Cape Town fans out about it. Byron: I don't want that. I'd like to go back to Cape Town. I kind of like it there. Chad: Nah, you fucked, mate. Byron: What a hat trick though. ⁓ Chad: He's a... not bad. Old Vernon. Byron: So quite a lot happened in that game. Dionne Farie's croc roll or the croc roll on Dionne Farie. Chad: Ugh. That should have been... as soon as I saw that... that should have been... black, centimorph, band, sighting... that was rough. You don't need that in the game. No, that's... Byron: Triple card. give it a No. And I saw a post and I thought this was a little unfair and a little aggressive, but it is a good point to point out. It's not the first time an Irish player has croc-rolled and landed on the leg of a South African player. Chad: No, did it in the, ⁓ that wasn't in the core file. Yep. Was that... whatever. ⁓ it them that crock-rolled us or was that in the final? Byron: Yes. Chad: Whatever it was. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that was old, mate. Yeah. Byron: There was a cocktail in the final on Bongi. That was New Zealand. I believe it was another club game. I don't think it was an international game. But two is obviously not a pattern, but it's not something that's not worth talking about. Chad: Amen. That's when they showed that again and they said it wasn't on purpose. It's like that's such a hard argument to have because Byron: Especially, you know, if you've come in to clean out the opposition and you haven't got underneath him and you're grabbing him on top, unless you're going to power bomb him or suplex it, which you're not allowed to do, the only other place for you to go is sideways. So the moment you grab him there, Chad: which you also can't do. Yeah, there's no... Yeah, it's. Byron: you should let go because the only thing that can come from that is a penalty at best is a penalty at worse Dionne Farie is older to come back from that Chad: Yeah I don't think and that's the thing that's a career ending regardless how old you are honestly or your age and so that's a career ending I wouldn't be surprised Byron: Injury. But at that age, I think we watched the last of Dion Free. Chad: Yeah, it's a shame and ⁓ a big fan of that at all. I don't know if there's any sightings going on for or whatever, but there should be because that's not OK. Byron: We'll see. ⁓ It definitely should be, agree. And then another thing from the game, like I said, so much fucking happened. I believe it's Ben Dokes. Is his name? know the last name is Dokes. I can't remember his first name. There's ⁓ conversation going on ⁓ ⁓ his tackle was not illegal, shouldn't have been a penalty try. And the argument was tackles like that happen all the time when preventing a try. Now. I would like to say something. referee that allows a high tackle because it's in the action of preventing a try got it wrong. Chad: Yep. You could just do that all the time. Yeah. Byron: You can't tackle high, you can't do it, it's not allowed. nothing about it. They explained tackle ⁓ ⁓ and higher, basically. He wrapped his whole arm around his neck. That is a high tackle. It prevented him from scoring the trough. If he didn't tackle him high, he may not have stopped the trough. He was over the line, it's a penalty trough, shut the fuck up. Chad: Yep. Yeah. Byron: And if the argument is, it's happened before and it wasn't called, then go back and speak to those referees and set a new precedent so when it happens in the future, you fucking give a penalty try so you can stop attacking people hard. Chad: Yeah, if we didn't change the game and didn't have these laws we still would have had Bucky's Booter probably still playing today. Headbutting Oaks. Yeah. Byron: clothes lining oaks. No, look, it's happened before and they didn't call it, that doesn't mean that that should be the standard. The standard is no hard tackles, whether you're scoring a trial or not. Chad: Yeah, that's, that's, yep. Byron: And I do agree, it does happen and it does not get called, but that's usually because the person scores the try after they get hit hard. Chad: Yeah. Yeah. All of these are mitigating things like he's being tackled and going down, but it's yeah, that was not the case. Byron: He's diving for, exactly, yeah. But no, you can't tackle her over the ball. It should be a penalty try. It should be a yellow card. Let's not make this a nonsense discussion. Chad: There's actually a lot of cards this weekend now that I'm thinking about it. Byron: There's, if you go back 10 years and watch rugby compared to now, there's so many cards. Chad: and all the reads. but I'm saying this again, there's a lot of reds. There's another red one in the Sharks game, it's against my Pimpi's one. That one was rough. The Pimpi was... Ours were rolling in the back of his head before he even... Byron: Pennington. I know where he came out at like the 60th minute during the second half and they were like, we're all happy to see him on his feet. And I was like, if that's the bar, you know he got fucked up. We're just happy he's alive. Chad: Yeah, in... Yeah. Yeah, yeah, he was right. He didn't even come out of his kit. He came out and like he obviously had a shower and just been like... Byron: Yeah, he reset, he's done for the next six weeks. No one's going to see him. That was crazy. Chad: Well, we've got what? There's two game, one game left, two games left, one game left and the sharks are done. Byron: One game left and Charles aren't making the playoffs. So that there's one game left to the season. So let him rest. Chad: Yeah. Byron: Crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy. Where were we? Bulls, absolutely crushing zebra, expected. Chad: Sorry, I think I skipped a game. Bulls, Zebra. Bro, fully. Byron: And you know what pisses me off about that? Is we spoke about like, how do you choose Willy for the 15th spot given all these other players? And then Willy goes, hold my fucking beer. I'll show you how you pick me at my age, bitch. Chad: And then he goes. Yeah he... unreal and a 10. It was just absolutely cooking. He looked like he was 25 and was just having fun. Byron: It was brilliant to watch. I loved it. It was so good. It was so good. Sharks. Where was this performance the rest of the whole season? Chad: Alright, pfft, don't, don't, don't burn. Byron: Cause it didn't look like anyone could beat them the way they played on Saturday. Chad: ⁓ No, no, just absolutely vibing, having a jaw. ⁓ Sia was having a great time. Julius, I'm a massive fan. Fun of ever. Byron: and But that's what we were talking about, remember? You said, you know, the under 20 players, you know, do they fade away or whatever it is? He's now coming into his physical peak and his skill peak. And he was a start under 20, but he needed that time for that step up in the game. you're seeing it now. My goodness, is he good? Chad: Yeah. It must be unreal to be a young player and going to... know they're all kind splitting up and going separate ways but for this last year to be in a team with ⁓ many springboks week after week after week after week you've got... Yeah, 100%. You've got... Especially ⁓ a forward you've got Sir Khaleesi who's such a great lead-in. So happy to just talk and... Byron: Imagine how much you Chad: Give knowledge. You've got Bongi, Etzebeth, all these oaks. Like, if you are not an absolute sponge and willing to learn and become coachable, you're fucked up. Byron: It's a death. You're wasting a golden opportunity, yeah. Chad: Yeah. Byron: Also, Andreas De Heizen in that game, referee calls the TMO, he goes, I unlocked it on. Don't worry about it, I unlocked it on. Class, pure class. Chad: Don't worry about it boys. Yeah. Absolutely not. That's what the- they need to start giving like a bonus point for that, for honesty. I can guarantee you that'll speed the game up more than getting rid of scrums. Byron: Yeah, yeah. Chad, you dirty dog, you. That's 100 % correct. You can even leave a 90 kick for a penalty. If Oaks just say they scored a trial, didn't score a trial. Chad: Yeah Yeah, because you know, you are 100 % know if you've knocked that ball out. No. Byron: Hmm, I will look, I will say sometimes in a game you're not always 100 % sure. You can feel confident, know, like think of like a... Chad: Okay, as a back, when you've knocked the ball on, you know you've knocked the ball on before you're gonna... Byron: Okay, a knock on the shore. But maybe it's a, you're both diving for the ball and you're not sure if it's a try, who put their hand on first, that sort of thing. But no, I agree, it does save a lot of time and it just, in like the world of sport where everyone's doing whatever they can to get the upper hand, for someone to just say, no, I fucked up, let's play, I thought that was class. Chad: Yeah, that's different. No, 100%. Love it. Love to see, want to see more of it. Byron: Yes, completely agree. Where were we? Ospreys beating Scarlet, expected. The game of the weekend. I don't think the scoreline represents the game though. Chad: Ospreys. Dude. Absolutely not. That game, the end, when was it? The 70th is when it kind of went the other way. This was on Mother's Day. Byron: Fall apart. Yeah. Chad: I watched the game. Byron: I got home from the refereeing thing and I looked at my missus and I was like I've got a big game of rugby to watch. He's like you've been with rugby since like I was like I've got another game to watch. got this is a big one I don't know what you want me to take. Chad: That was a similar conversation. Byron: I did like 18 hours straight of rugby. had super rugby in the morning before the L1. I had the L1 the whole day. I got home, I had more rugby. And then after that was the Conax game. It was 16 hours of rugby I did on Saturday. Chad: Could you... that is the biggest first world problem I think I've ever heard. That's how you know, Byron. You've been out of South Africa ever too long. Is that... that is your complaint. Byron: It's not a complaint. I'm telling you how great life is. There you go. Yes, Humble flex. look, for the Lions, it does show that they have the ability to be a rugby team in the UIC. It didn't go their way. Away from home at the Aviva against Leinster. Chad: okay so flex 100 % No, but it was last 10 minutes is when it fell apart because it was and they were just there they were yeah Byron: So next week is the game against Munster and that's just become a whole lot bigger. Chad: I hope the pressure doesn't get to them for that game. Byron: Especially because Konnacht beat Munster. So I want to look at the log before I say anything about this, but it makes this final week so incredibly tight. ⁓ Dragons losing to Edinburgh, kind of expected. I did not expect Konnacht to beat Munster 26-7. Chad: Yeah. Yeah. Byron: So let me look at the log before we look at the fixtures. Glasgow, Stormers, Leinster, first, second, third, all separated by one point each, so 58, 59, 60. Then Bulls are fourth, Lions are fifth with 54 and 53. This is why it's such a big game. Lions play Munster and there's only a two point difference between fifth and sixth place. And then because it's so tight you've got Munster with 51 points Cardiff, Ulster, 50 points, and then Karnach in ninth place with 49 points. So if things don't go well, Ulster win, Cardiff win, Karnach win, Munster win, Lions are out. Chad: That's all, then. Byron: So let's have a look at the last round of fixtures. Chad: Okay, do you want me to read the last round? Are you going to rapid fire the predictions? Okay, you ready? Caught of stormers. Byron: Yes sir, hit me. Ready. Better be the stormers because then lines are pretty much secure. Chad: ⁓ aus der Gläser. Byron: Because it's in All-Star? And because it would be, Stormers win that game, Ulster beat Glasgow. Stormers are UFC champions. Chad: Don't think about what the... Don't think about the table. You're making an If you're putting your money, you've got your last 100 bucks. You're going, ⁓ you're a mad man. Okay? ⁓ Edinburgh Connacht. Byron: I'm going all-star win, all-star. I am a madman, but- Connacht. Chad: I hope not. Sharks and zebra. Byron: I also hope not, but it's gonna be Connor. Chad: Okay, shock zebra. Byron: After last week's performance, sharks for sure. Chad: Bulls penitent? Byron: ⁓ balls. Chad: I can't even bet on that game. I just looked at the odds. Doesn't even let you bet. ⁓ Byron: They're like, look, the balls are winning. Just don't give me any money. Let's just move on. Chad: Yeah, ⁓ let's say osprey Byron: Lansda Chad: Scarlet's Dragons? Byron: Has a game ever mattered less? Scarlet. Chad: Jesus. And then the last game, and Byron: I say the lions, do pull it out. Chad: I the lions do. I agree with you on that one. Byron: It's gonna be such a fun last week of fixtures for the URC. Chad: I was going to go play golf on Sunday, but I think I'm going to stay here and watch their game instead. Byron: You have to at least watch the Lions game at a bare minimum. Chad: Yeah, I'm not waking up at 2am to watch those other games. I'll watch those. Byron: the headlines, monster game's gonna be insane. And then what I do find crazy ⁓ both Stormers and Glasgow lose, we'll know the winner of the regular season on Friday night. Well, Friday night for me, Saturday morning for you. Chad: I can be a little Alliance. Byron: it possible? ⁓ see. Chad: No, it's not. The Lions have to win by 6,000 points. Byron: No. Yeah. Speaking of actually, I wanted to ask you this question. In the URC, you get a bonus point for scoring four tries. Chad: Hit me. Byron: In Super Eggby you get a bonus point if you have scored three or more tries than your opponent. Chad: Yeah. Byron: What do you think is the better bonus point rule? Chad: more. Byron: And why? And why? Chad: Because it keeps you playing throughout the game. Honestly, because you know how complaints you'll get? Like if you only need to have point to ⁓ a final, like a quarter final, you know that the way the table is set up. Score your four tries and then take the foot off the gas and it's done. Super rugby, you can't do that. One thing, another thing I also think is better in super rugby than in ⁓ U.S.C. is the whole draw. We wouldn't have ended up with a 38-38 Ulster vs Stormers 1 because we would have gone to Superpoint. I love Superpoint. It is so much fun. Byron: I've got a question on that. If you're gambling and you're picking a winner and it ends at super point, does that mean you lost? Chad: Don't know, probably. Byron: I would think so because like I know when I was in the US for my mates that were betting on the NBA if the NBA went into overtime but they bet a winner then they they've lost the bet even though there's a clear win at the end of the game Chad: I know. We'll have to, we can tag, can tag some online spots and can see. Byron: Sure, ask, let's, so the question is, if you're gambling and you've picked the winner and it goes to super point, does that mean you've already lost the bet or do you take the winner-loser from the end of the super point? Chad: Let us know because I'm not a gambler. Even though I put 10 bucks on Strickland weekend. Byron: ⁓ shit! Chad: And he won. Byron: That was a crazy bet, you must have won like $7 million. Chad: 45 ⁓ maybe should put one on this weekend ⁓ let's do it let me put a bet on if you could put a bet on one ⁓ one this weekend do i do on the lions Byron: Close enough. Are you looking for a sure win or something with some money that could be made? Chad: It's the pod's money now. Byron: Look, the safe, well you can't actually do it, but your safe bet would be to bet on the bulls or the sharks. That's your safe bet. Chad: Maybe if I do a multi. Byron: But if you really, really, really, really, really wanna risk it, I'm sure the odds for Ulster beating Glasgow can't be that. You have to be incredible. Chad: I'll check. I'll check, I'll check, I'll check. do this. ⁓ log into my Betrayer account and we can pump out a bit. ⁓ Byron: Anyways. Do know what we should do? We should put up like five games a week and let people tell us what's the best parlay to put together of those five. Chad: ⁓ I like it. Okay we might have to we might have to do it the internationals because all the ⁓ else is basically done now. Okay I like it let's do it. I'll ⁓ I'll put 50 bucks or whatever into the my my betcha account. Byron: and then we'll find a way to send them money if we win. Yeah. Well no, 45 bucks, because you've already got it. You don't need more than that. Chad: Yeah, true. I could have 100 by the end of this weekend. Byron: That's it, those are the fixtures. Quick recap of this weekend's Women's Six Nations. As expected, Ireland beat Wales, France beat Scotland, thrash them, 69-28. And England beat Italy, 61-33. And that was round four. And next week is the final round. You've got Wales-Italy. Chad: Mm-hmm. Byron: Ireland Scotland and France England. would say given how things have played out these are probably the most evenly matched games because you have England France first verse second Ireland Scotland third verse five Italy Wales fourth verse six. What's is England four with four bonus points France won four four bonus points. Chad: Yeah. Byron: So it's for all the marbles on Sunday at 5.45 in France. So that's a 100 % worth of watch. And then the end of the under 20 rugby championship was this weekend. So South Africa took top spot. They won two, drew one. We drew with New Zealand. Well, yeah, we had top spot going in. Chad: Kind of expected. Yeah. Yep. We took top spots last week. Byron: We drew with New Zealand, I think it was 28-28 or 29-29, 29-29. And then third place was taken by Argentina and Australia in fourth, both 1-1, lost 2. So if you look at the point spread, had 13 for the under 20 spring box, 8 for the under 20 Kiwis, and then 7-7 for Argentina and Australia. I think that was all the fixtures. Chad: There is. I have two more things I want to talk about. Hey? Byron: Did we miss anything? I said, did we miss anything? Chad: I don't think so. There's two more things I want to talk about. The this was hot of the press. I just saw it I said to you, why is my cameras doing all these things? ⁓ Byron: Hit me. You have the most random things going on on your screen. Last week when the show started there was New Year's Eve fireworks in the background. Now you've released bullet balloons and a little thumbs up. Thank you Mark Zuckerberg for that one. Chad: I don't know what's going on I think it's actually Apple. it's old Tim Cook. Anyway, doesn't matter. Byron: Bro, where do you think this fucking thing came from? Facebook. Chad: dunno. Byron, okay, doesn't matter. ⁓ Byron: Anyway. Focus, Chad! Chad: ⁓ just before the show, I saw that the Bulls have signed half of South Africa. And yeah, it's absolutely cook. Do want to run through the names of who they've signed? Byron: Everyone. Yes. Whoo, no pressure on getting all of these right. Bosch, who we remember from the sharks. Hannro Liebenberg, returning from Leicester Tigers. Luwan Giliomi, who you and I both spoke very highly of from the sharks. ⁓ Abrahams, wing fullback from Munster. Chad: the shocks. Yep. Yep. Byron: Hakim Kunene, again, fullback from the sharks, who... Chad: Just absolutely rinsing the sharks. Byron: Yeah, well, if you were a Sharks player at the moment, you kind of want to get away because no one knows what's going on there. Chad: Yeah, but you can't you don't all go to same club. Byron: Well this is the other crazy plot, the next signing, Mwanda Ndanda, from the sharks as well. Chad: Yep. Yep. 132 kgs of pure beef. Byron: 132 kilogram Goliath replacing Walcott Lowe. What was I thinking? was I thinking? ⁓ yes. Then, the enunciation here, ⁓ Amlase, from the Pumas. Chad: Yep. Haven't seen him play. Byron: and Dylan Marth, winger from the Higwas. Chad: Absolutely wild. Like out of... know... because what's the day? morning? ⁓ ⁓ Byron: So yeah, Tuesday morning just decided, you know what? Let's sign everybody. know what it probably is? Bulls didn't have a great start of the season, but the way the season has ended, they kind of pulled it together. I mean, they're sitting in fourth place for fuck's sake. ⁓ I probably told them, listen, what do you need to win the trophy next year? Yeah. And he said, Chad: No. Yeah. Yeah, Manir Akhman, what is it? What do need from us? Byron: He said, I need as many sharks players as possible let's pick up a few stragglers from everywhere else. ⁓ Chad: Ha It's gonna be it's gonna it's a it's a it's a dangerous lot that picked up I'm excited to see Kermen Bosch back. I think that's gonna be Exciting he had so much promise. I don't Yeah, I was a big fan of him when he's also at the sharks Byron: Mm-hmm. Also looking at In Tlapakanya this weekend, again. know he's still a big boy. He's still got some weight if he wants to lose it. Doesn't have to lose it if he doesn't want to. But when did he become this tiptoe, offloading, hard-hitting, nimble prop? Chad: I love it. I am all for it. I love it. I cannot wait to see him do more and more. I'm becoming a forwards fan this year. Byron: He's a super athlete! He's a super athlete. You shouldn't be able to do what he does at his size. Chad: And passes the ball like a fly off. Soft hands. He makes it look so easy. Byron: And he's so young, he's so young. he is a ⁓ prospect in the world of rugby. Because he doesn't have to lose weight, but if he does lose more weight and he continues down this touch rugby-esque flair in his rugby, exciting Not a bad time to be a box. Chad: No. Starting time to be a box fan. Byron: or Alliance Fed. Chad: And yeah, that too. That's it from that one. And I had one last little... thoughts slash worry in the back of my mind about where we are as springbok fans and all these injuries that we've got we've got achasneiman acl ruptured lurt out france ⁓ done done neck injury possibly early retirement similar to kits off peter steph detoy out ⁓ salman maratz ⁓ also ⁓ Byron: I don't mind if Peter Stefft to toy his ars now. He doesn't need to play club rugby for Japan. We saw that in the last one. He went like in a full decade almost. an exaggeration. It was 500 and something days. He went a full decade without playing for his club team and won a world cup. So, you let him do him. Chad: You Well if that's what it takes him do him year out but Fassi also out, Skrumhoff, Kurbus out, Grant Williams out, Jadon Hendricks out, ⁓ Hendricks also on the injury list. There's a lot of big names there, I know we're a big squad but that's a big list. That's a big big list. Byron: It is especially at Locke. We've got a lot of players out and at Scrumhoff we've got a lot of players out. What is crazy? Go ahead, no, go ahead, go ahead. Chad: I mean, Scrumhoff, yeah, Scrumhoff, I think we're still fine. I think we've still got enough players to come And I think I'm pretty sure Fuff ⁓ and a couple other players that we can bring in still. Wouldn't mind Fuff coming in. But yeah, Lox. Byron: Well, we're going to have that fucking Goliath in the training camp, funnermashed. Chad: JJ, pardon me. That oak. I saw a thing the other day. was 170 kilos. That is not normal. He... Hang on. He eats one meal a day. Byron: What do you eat? How do you feed? How do you fuel 170 kilos? Is it a whole cow? Chad: one meal there he intimately fast he went down from he's down he's down from 172 think 150 130 Byron: still not real. Chad: I know and he does one meal a day. I'll follow him on Instagram. It's wild. could not. Could you imagine? I'll send you the thing. His Mrs. his meals. I'll show you. I'll send you the thing after this. It's crazy. ⁓ Byron: I wanna see what he's eating. I'm so curious how... That's, I hope she doesn't have another job because you're gonna be cooking from when he's done eating, you gotta start preparing for tomorrow. Chad: We can ask, we can ask the question. Byron: I also hope they own a farm or he goes hunting or something. Chad: Well, it's in the UK, so doubt it. Byron: He's a giant human. yes, it is a concern, but we're so lucky at the moment because we have people to fill these spots. Might not be ⁓ choice, but still world class. Chad: Y- We can put S-Tas and in almost all of those spots. Yeah, I reckon he could do it. He could... Byron: Cheslin's been a great Scrum Off as well. Chad: Yeah put Cheslin there. You could put Cheslin in the line out and just throw him three meters in the air and get Malcolm to like bomb it. Byron: Put Chasen there, put S.Tasen on the wing. Like Argentina did. Yeah, don't throw and hold. Just... That's crazy. That's crazy. And then just catch him like they do cheerleaders. Chad: Flink in hope. ⁓ Yeah. Okay, well, I'll make sure that we tag Jason Colby so he knows when he sees you not to... Byron: That's... ⁓ man. Chad: That was it from me though, that's all the stuff I had. spoke about Amy becoming a new record holder. We spoke about... Byron: Let's see. That's all I have to go. Also, we give Holly so much props. Just want to shout out she started following the show. Chad: We've We're at peak. Peak podcast. This is why we do it. Byron: Thanks, Halle! It doesn't get better than... there's only... unless Rossi follows us. I know we've got to play... we've got to play the spring box. Then he'll follow us. Chad: only follows like one person and it's whoever country is playing. That's not worth it, Byron. We just spoke about JJ and he's 150 kilos. Byron: No, it's not worth it. It's not worth it. ⁓ Chad: We would both be able to play against the Springboks, but it would only be once. And then it would be nothing but ash. No, it would maybe be a warm-up. Byron: ⁓ and it won't be a full game. It may only last less than a minute. Actually, you know what? It will, because they'll kick off towards one of us and one of us have to catch it. Chad: I'm looking at you being like, it's, it's, it's, it's going over there. Byron: It's heading directly towards you. Yours! Chad: Yeah, yeah, I don't... hamstring! Sup. Byron: But I've got nothing to add to that. That's terrifying. But yes, shout out to the follow. Thank you watching everybody. Please like, share, subscribe. All of those things that help us. Chad, anything more from your end? Chad: don't think so. I still counting down the days until we play some international rugby. It's 39 more days and we to watch the Springboks vs Barbarians. Scott Robinson vs Rossi. It's gonna be fun. So close. Almost a month. Byron: That's so close. Whoo! All right, we cut the cock. Thanks for watching. your auntie to subscribe ⁓ let your uncle know that we know more rugby than he does. Thank you very much. Cut the cock. Chad: We did.