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Fictional Women Around the World: Norma Khan · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Sanny and Samantha. Come. Welcome to stuff
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: I Never told you production of iHeart Ideo And welcome
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: to another subset, subsegment fictional women around the World. Today,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: we are doing a character I have never heard of,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: so once again I'm a little nervous, but I'm going
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: to do my best. We are talking about Norma Khan,
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  Speaker 1: who is an autistic, bisexual Pakistani teen, first featured in
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: a webcomic and then later in two seasons of the
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Netflix show Dead End Paranormal Park. She was voiced by
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Cody Covisa and created by Hamish Steele. What I find
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: really interesting about this character is in her earliest iterations
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: in the webcomic that was turned into a graphic novel
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: called Dead India. She wasn't explicitly written as autistic, but
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Stele got so much feedback from autistic readers and readers
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  Speaker 1: with anxiety, to the point that he himself eventually got
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: a diagnosis. Oh, because so many people were like, this
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: is so well written. I'm so he started to take Oh.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: He was like, maybe that's me. Is this play about me? Right?
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: And I actually was thinking about this. I've had this
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: concern before. What you know, in his case turned out great.
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  Speaker 1: But we've done episodes where listeners have written in and
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: said I think you have yeah Xyz. I'm sure the
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: listeners are very sure that I have knock Alepsi. I'd
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: very forget about yes. Yes, So that can't be kind
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: of scary when you're putting something out there, validating and
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: scary exactly. But I kind of love that so many
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: people were like, this is such a great representation that
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: eventually he went and got himself a diagnosed. Maybe I
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: should go look into this. Yes. According to him, he
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: hired an autistic consultant for the show, and there were
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: autistic people and staff, and he would get notes like wow,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: you must have really done your research in terms of
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: autism and autistic representation, and he was like not, actually no,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: wait what Yes, he was pretty much writing what he knew.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: He just didn't know quite what it meant. When the
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: show debuted this character, Norma was officially canonically autistic. She
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: comes out as bisexual on the show and has a
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: crush on her podcast best girlfriend Iral like not just somebody,
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: she's listening to their podcast Bad. Yeah. The show is
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: a coming of a horror comedy slash modern Scooby Doo
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: that follows two queer teens, Norma and Barney, who is
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: a gay, trans Jewish fat boy, and their friend, a
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: talking pug appropriately named Pugsley. While working at Phoenix Park,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: they discover a gateway to Hell and various other strange
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: paranormal things. It's an animated show aimed at teen audiences,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: and it really stands out for its nuanced depiction of
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  Speaker 1: queerness and disability, which is pretty rare in a show
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: like this. Like every episode has some paranormal happenings, but
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: it's more a backdrop for a coming of age and
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: self discovery story. As you can imagine, the show got
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: a lot of backlash from conservatives. It was one of
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: their focuses for a while. The creator said, too quote,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: another reason I'm so proud is that I had constantly
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: pitched show of characters like her, her being Norma as
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: a lead, and I always got the note about how
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: female characters need to be more fun and less anxious.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: But he really didn't back down from this. So character wise,
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  Speaker 1: Norma was raised by her single mother and displays many
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: autistic characteristics. Early on, she has an anxious personality around people,
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  Speaker 1: at least She's extremely logical, introverted, and obsesses over actress
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  Speaker 1: Pauline Phoenix, which is a hyperfixation that she's had for
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  Speaker 1: fifteen years. According to her, her fanishness means that she
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: makes a yearly visit to Phoenix Park, which is owned
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: by said celebrity, and eventually she gets a job there,
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  Speaker 1: and she just has a wealth of facts about the place,
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  Speaker 1: facts that help prove helpful later save lives later. While
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: she is very brave when it comes to facing ghost,
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  Speaker 1: she has a love a lot of social anxiety that
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: can lead to panic attacks and being overwhelmed or overstimulated.
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  Speaker 1: She visibly flinches and moves away from touch on a
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: few occasions, and sometimes struggles recognizing faces, which is a
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: fairly common thing in the autistic community. There's an episode
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: about team building, and in it, after being pushed to
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: make a human knot with her coworkers, which is just
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: like a they're all holding hands, it's not as gross
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  Speaker 1: as she think, she curls up in a ball and
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: anxiety overtakes her, and in that episode it really highlights
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: what she faces every day. That being said, she can
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: hold her ground with people too, and she is extremely
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: boil to those who are close to her. On top
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: of that, while others cower away from ghost and demons,
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  Speaker 1: Norma is largely unflinching. She is the most level headed
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  Speaker 1: and clever when faced with the paranormal. When she learns
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: that Pauline Fie Nix her idol is a superficial liar,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Norma's hyperfixation shifts to demons, angels, and the multiplane. She
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: has a quote that's essentially along the lines of it
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: is the real world that scares me, not this paranormal one.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: When people talk about why they like this character and
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: appreciate this depiction, many of them bring up how she
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: is not othered or seen as a problem the other
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  Speaker 1: characters have to deal with and fix. Instead, she is
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  Speaker 1: met with sympathy and her story is told with respect.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Her friends comfort her and defend her from others who
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: don't take the time to understand or empathize, and her
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: friends do it because they are her friends. They put
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: in the work to understand her. Often autistic characters are
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: treated like burdens, and that is something viewers can internalize,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: but Norma never is. People have spoken two about how
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: traditionally autism representation has been straight, white male dudes so
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: normal was refreshing a queer woman of color who has autism.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: As we know, autism is undiagnosed in women, is underdiagnosed,
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  Speaker 1: and even more underdiagnosed in women of color when compared
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  Speaker 1: to white men. This is due to science historically focusing
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: on how autism presents in men. But representation plays into
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: this too. If all you ever see when it comes
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: to autism representation is one specific type of person that
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: is not you, you might not think it's even possible for
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: that to be a diagnosis for you. And this show,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: from what I was reading, it just meant so much
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  Speaker 1: to a lot of people. It was really impactful and
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: really loved. From what I understand, the first season largely
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: focuses on Barney, and then the second season it's more
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: about her. And then they had a third season ready
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: and the storyboards were already being like written, put up.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: But then it was canceled by Netflix in twenty twenty three.
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  Speaker 1: So this is a recent show and actually at the time,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: not to put on my tinfoil hat, but Netflix was
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: canceling a lot of queer shows, so that's sad, and
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: I read that it ended on a cliffhanger I haven't
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: seen it. When they do that, that's awful. It's the worst.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: So people were really hurt when I was looking to
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: this and she does seem like such a a cool
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: character and such a yeah, unfortunately pretty rare depiction. Yeah
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: that's ridiculous. Yeah, So I'm really sorry that it was
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: canceled and a lot of the people involved were really
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: obviously bummed by it too. But while it was there,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: this particular depiction really meant a lot to a lot
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: of people. So shout out, shout out to them and
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: to this character, and listeners would love to hear from you.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: If this was the show that you watched. You can
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: email us at Hello at Stuff Whenever Told You dot com.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: You can find us one Scott Moms a podcast on
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: Instagram and TikTok that stuff on Never Told You. We're
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: also on YouTube. We have some merchandise, a compureau, and
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: we have a book you can get where we get books.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Thanks as always too, our super producer Rima and our
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: exective bruser Maya, thank you, and thanks to you for
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: listening Stuff I Never Told You to Protection by Heart Radio.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can check
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: out the Heart video app Apple podcast, or if you
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. Yeah,