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'06 vs. '25 Tigs. Who You Got? · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode of Tiger Territory, part of
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: the Bouel Territory Network, a Detroit Tiger's podcast.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: I am Karen Steglu with.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Me as always a man who can cast a fishing
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: line just as well as he can cast a vote.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: He is Cody Stavenhagen.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: How you doing, Hey?
• 0:19
  Speaker 3: Doing good? You gotta be able to do both, you know.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: In terms of voting, for this episode, we're just going
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: to talk about award voting specifically. Let's off the jump
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: go to MVP. Everyone knows there are two players in
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: the league and great historic level seasons, Aaron Judge and
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: Cal Raley. Let's take a look beyond that. No one's
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: talking about Trek Scuble pitching at a level that puts
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: him not just in the Cy Young discussion, but the
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: MVP discussion. Now, I don't have an MVP vote this year.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: I am voting on cy Young. And even though we're
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: talking about Scooball being on the MVP list, that's not
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: gonna be the easiest decision ever because you have Crochet
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: on her b and then Nathany Yavaldi who doesn't have
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: the innings but is maybe having the best results. Er
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: Wise year. So they're kind of some fascinating discussions brewing,
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: I think in these award races. And that doesn't even
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: take us to Manager of the Year, which I'm glad
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: I'm not voting on because like every year, that's going
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: to be a tough one.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: Well, look, I want to the reason that I thought
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: this would be a good discussion because to harken back
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: to an episode we did last month, we did like
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: the All quarter century team for the Tigers, And we've
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: talked previously with Austin Jackson about like school bal levels,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: when is it okay to kind of talk about him
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: in a Verlander, you know sense, And one of the
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: first things that I think of is like, look, I
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: think Schooble is awesome. When you watch him start to start,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: it's about as good as I've ever seen. I'm not
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: that old, but as I've ever seen, however, that I
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: am a believer in Echola Aid when it comes to legacy,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: and the Verlander twenty eleven season is one that is
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: just it's you can't climb that mountain until you get
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: to that mountain, in my opinion, And so now as
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: I look at the landscape of the American League. It's like, Okay,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: the Yankees have gone, you know, they trajected down a
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: little bit. They they probably will write the ship, but
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: that was a pretty serious dip that they've had. They're
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: now fighting it in the wildcard and Seattle is also
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: a wildcard team. They still have a chance to pass Houston, obviously,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: So you have Judge and Raleigh both on wildcard teams
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: that are by far the best, the high favorites for MVP,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: not to mention that Judge was also hurt. My question
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: is why isn't Terrek Schouble given any sort of clout
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: for MVP when he is the by far the best
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: player on any given day, perhaps the best team in
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: the America League record wise. It just seems to me
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: that that should be a talking point. So, as you said,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: you don't have an MVP vote, but you obviously think
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: about these things.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: So I guess I'll just kind of ask you.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Because you know the fact that they just use the
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: word valuable, you know, back in the early nineteen tens,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: and then we just kind of stuck with it.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: It creates this kind of discussions.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: But when you think of who is or who should
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: be like player A, player B, MVP MVP, Like, how
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: do you assess that in your mind?
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I don't know. I'm a modern voter, right,
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: so I'm looking at war. I'm starting at war, and
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: that is a pretty good measurement, especially if we are
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: using the word valuable. But I don't think I'm making
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: the sole discussion based on war. I think that's a
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: great place to look. But if we're talking a matter
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: of decibel points, decimal points, it's especially important to look
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: at some of the other contexts. What kind of teams
• 4:03
  Speaker 3: are they on, what kind of years have they had,
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: how consistent have they been all year? Maybe even what
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: position do they play this year? I think it's going
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: to be fascinating. Does a catcher get extra credit because
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: of how difficult and demanding that position is? These are
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: definitely some things to take into consideration. But I also
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: think you have to look long and hard at the
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: raw numbers, the raw data. How valuable has this player
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: been in comparison to the rest of the league. It's
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: kind of funny to see how awards voting has changed
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: back in the day. A great example, let's go back
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: to nineteen sixty eight. Denny McClain pitcher, Tigers, MVP that year.
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: He's worth seven point four war. He had a heck
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: of a good season, But Carl Yastrimsky had a ten
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: point five WAR season. Even it's ninth, he would probably
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: be the MVP if this were being voted on today.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: But hey, sixty eight Tigers won the World Series that year,
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: and I think that factored a little more heavily in
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: people's minds.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I want to be clear on this discussion
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: because I don't want this to come across as oh,
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: the Tigers podcast is, you know whatever. I love Aaron Judge.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: I think he's great for the game. He's obviously a
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: great player. I think cal Raley what he's doing is
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: unbelievable and awesome, and I would lean like we should
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: be given a little bit more credit to what he
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: does behind the plate, given you know what Aaron Judge
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: is defensively, which depends depends on the days. He's certainly capable,
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: but he's certainly not a center fielder like they were
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: trying to convince us there a couple of years ago.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: So I don't want to make this an anti cal
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Anti Aaron Judge discussion. My larger point is that given
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: the ingredients for a starting pitcher to get serious MVP considerations,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: I think league reputation, like he like this couldn't have
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: been a thing last year, by the way, Schooble was
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: seventh in MVP voting last year. Like that, Like you
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: have to kind of be an institution already in order
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: for this to happen. And obviously Schooble is an institution
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: and then also the whole best player on one of
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: the best teams.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Thing.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: You know, these votes are cast after the season obviously,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: so who knows. But I'm just saying it's obviously in
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: the realm of possibility that the Tigers have the best
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: record in the American League at a regular seasons end,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: and so therefore I feel like Schooble should get that
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: kind of consideration.
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: Now, if you're is it fair to say that this
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: is our player spotlight by DraftKings.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: Let's do it.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Player Spotlight by DraftKings, DraftKings Sportsbook, the.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: C is yours.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: So yes, Trek Skoogle is our player spotlight because I
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: think he ought to be like one of the spotlight
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: players in all of the American League. And to go
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: back to war real quick. So I just jotted down pitchers,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: not all starters, but pitchers up until eighty four. Just
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: you know, it seemed like a nice year to stop
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: looking at this that have won MVP. So Clayton Kershaw
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: on twenty fourteen one MVP. He was an eight point
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: two War player that year, Justin Verlander, afore mentioned twenty
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: eleven season eight point six War player, Dennis Eckersley obviously
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: a reliever, two point nine War player, and that was
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety two. Roger Clemens nineteen eighty six, eight
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: point eight War that season. Obviously we know how that
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: season ended. And then Willie Hernandez nineteen eighty four, your
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Detroit Tigers four point eight War player. So more or less, Cody,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: you got to be an eight War player to be
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: in consideration for this award as a starting pitcher. That
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: seems to be what recent history has kind of told us.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: That's certainly something that Trek Schoogble can get to. He's
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: just under six right now, but I feel like he
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: is certainly capable of getting to that point. And he is,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: like Verlander and eleven, like Kershawn fourteen an institution as
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: a starting pitcher in your respective league. So I think
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: it should be in consideration. It should certainly be better
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: than and this is our pick of DraftKings Sportsbook. Trek's
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: schoogle is currently plus ten thousand.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: To win MVP.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Now, again for the uninitiated, that means if you bet
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: one hundred dollars, you win ten thousand dollars.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: So those are long odds.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: Here's what they here's the MVP race right now in general,
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Aaron Judge minus one seventy. Now that's come down significantly
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: because of injuries in the Yankees, but it's still a
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: heavy favorite. Cal Riley plus one ten So that's you know,
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: close to even money, but a little a little bit
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: in the green. And then here's who Trek Schouogle shares
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: the plus ten thousand with Cody. And again I'm not
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: criticizing these these guys as guys Jose Ramirez and Bobby
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: wed Junior are both at plus ten thousand two ballers
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: like two absolute stud ballers, and like gives you an
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: idea of how deep this division can be as well.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, they're not on teams performing
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: at the level that the Tigers are performing at and
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: they also, like aren't I'm not trying to be critical here,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: but they're not the institutions at their position that their school.
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: Is kind of an institution.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: I love Jose Air Mirrors, but don't we just talk
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: about how we don't talk about him enough?
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: You know, we gotta stop saying that though, because when
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: you when we talk about all right, that's a whole
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: other episode. Jose Airs is really good.
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but like and again love Jose Ramirez, love Bobby
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: Wood Junior grew up just down the street. But should
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: they have the same odds right now?
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: Well, they're probably all fighting neck neck for who's going
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: to finish third in the MVP, So I think that
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: is not not crazy. Yeah, let's be real. Taric School
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: is not gonna win the MVP now with the years
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: Judge and Raley are having, but he has a real
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: case to finish third. If you look at who is
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: who else is in contention there, the list starts with
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: Bobby Wit Junior and Jose Ramirez. Bobby Witt five point nine,
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: Fangrafts war above, Treik Schoogbls five point five, Jose Ramirez
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: is at five point zero. But you're right, Bobby Wood
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: Junior unlikely at this point to be on a playoff team,
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: whereas Schoobl he only plays every fifth or sixth day,
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: but he has been a carrying force on a first
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: place team. So if you wanted to argue his odds
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: should be slightly higher than those guys, I don't think
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: that would.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: Be like it should, but it should like reflect a
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: third place finish as opposed to a contention for a
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: third place finish, like at best.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: At best, that should that should be.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: In my opinion, so like it, I'm just saying, like disrespectful,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: these are just gambling nods. I'm not going to go
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: that far, but I just feel like that should This
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: should not be askewed given how great Berlinder was last season,
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: because that plays into it, reputations play into it, and
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: then how how awesome he's been this season. So that
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: would be my larger point, and that's why I wanted
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: to discuss Trek Schoogle for al MVP at plus ten thousand.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: By the way, he's mayas two forty for Cy Young,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: so that's not the pick. But I want to talk
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: about the MVP part of it, and that is brought
• 11:44
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• 12:16
  Speaker 1: All right, and I wanted to get in, you know,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: speaking of Verlander and speaking to school boar. We're going
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: to keep kind of comparing the two a little bit.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: I wanted to do something. This was a suggestion on X.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: I wanted to do an episode that kind of compares
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: the two thousand and six team to the squad that
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: we're watching right now.
• 12:36
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: And I'll just say my relationship Cody to the two
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: thousand and six Tigers, and then I'll throw it to you,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: because obviously we're gonna come at it from different perspectives.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: But in two thousand and six, I was I was
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: thirteen and that was like the formative team for me obviously,
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: like you know, watch three and then you know, hey
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: this d meet your young guys kind of cool and
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Bobby Higginson for that and and all that stuff. But
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: the the twenty sixteen was the team of my childhood.
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: And actually I remember going to I went and looked
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: up this box score. I got to pull it up
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: real quick. The Tigers were in Texas for my thirteenth
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: birthday and my dad and I went to the game,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: and my parents paid to have the happy Birthday message
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: come on the video board. So I'm talking to some
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: fans between an ending and my dad's just ignoring the
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: hell out of me, and I'm like, why is he
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: just not paying attention? But he's just locked in on
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: the on the scoreboard. And then you know, when my
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: name pops up, well, Karrot like just like kind of
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: yelled to like make sure I made sure I saw it,
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: which that was cool, so I obviously understood afterward, while
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: he was not engaged in this conversation in the stands.
• 13:45
  Speaker 6: Uh.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: But but that game that was the famous R.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Dickey gets rocked and has to has to go into
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: the miners afterward game because Brandonage hit two home runs,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Maglia Ordonia has hit two home runs, Chris Shelton hit
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: two home runs, and Craig Monroe hit a home run,
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: so the ball was just flying. Tigers obviously ended up
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: winning that game, and also future Tiger Ian Kinsler it
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: was his first career home run, so I remember that,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: still have that ticket stuff, So pretty cool memory for
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: me with sixteen and then and then you know, works
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: out with the birthday and all that stuff. And then again,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: like if if I was prompted to, like at a
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: bar at one ten in the morning and I had
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: a few diet cokes, like I could name you the
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: starting lineup like that, that team is ingrained in my
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: head and like it starts with the punch signing and
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: then I fell in love with Curtis S.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: Granderson.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: If you guys are watching on YouTube, there's a hat
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: right up there at the top left. That's a Curtis
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Granderson game warn Tiger's hat. Like this is like my
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: formative team. And obviously they you know, season ended in disappointment.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: But I'll never get tired of talking about the two
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: thousand and six Tigers, and I'll never get Tiger reen
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: about them going back and watching those highlights, the magli
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: o'donias home run obviously among them the higher end of those.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: But for you, Cody, not a Tigers fan, not growing
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: up in Detroit, like, but you've been around guys and
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: years later, like, what is your relationship to the sixteen?
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's an interesting question because yeah, I grew up
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: in Texas and I was a TBS Braves fan. That
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: was actually the braves first losing full season, not ninety four,
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: and they weren't too good first full losing season in
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: my lifetime, so I was a bit of a depressing
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: year baseball wise. Was locked in on Texas football that year.
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: So yeah, it wasn't too attuned the two thousand and
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: six Tigers. They're playing in a different league than I followed.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: I don't remember them getting a ton of national attention.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, I watched Baseball Tonight every night back then
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: and remember Pudge, but I don't remember really knowing much
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: about that team where it's inner workings until the World
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: Series and suddenly I was like, wait this Jim Leland,
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: It's kind of awesome. So that that was my relationship
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: as a fifth grader, you know, But it was cool
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: getting to coming to cover the Tigers and getting to
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: know these people, getting to know Jim Leland a little bit,
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: meeting other certain members of that team, or interviewing them
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: for stories over the years. Probably more than anything, just
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: hearing how often people reference six, and especially covering teams
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: that were bad. For my first several years on this beat,
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: always hearing, well, you never know, this could be like six,
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: a team that wasn't expected to do a lot and
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: ended up going to the World Series. It didn't take
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: long at all to understand how much this team means
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: to an entire generation of baseball fans. To hear people
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: constantly talk about the Maglio home run as something that's
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: deeply ingrained in their memories. Can't claim to have experienced it,
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: like probably almost everyone listening to this podcast, but I
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: certainly have come to develop an appreciation for, you know,
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: what that team means to people around here.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: I still have, you know, been going through a lot
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: of like my old stuff that like I probably should discard,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: but I'm not going to because I tend to keep
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: things because you never know. Like I just found a
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: two thousand and six Sports Illustrated where it talked about
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: Team of Destiny that issue, uh, you know, with Kenny
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Rogers on the cover, and then ESPN the magazine had
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: Verlander and Granderson, you know, riding the like the carousel.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: What's that stupid Marie condo cleaning? If it brings you joy,
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: you shouldn't throw it away. I think these things bring
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: you joy.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: They bring me joy and h And also we were
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: talking about this earlier. I have a Baseball America book
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: from like two thousand and four, and uh, it talks
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: about a lot of these guys who ended up being
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: like integral parts of those six teams. So so yeah,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: I mean the best of memories, the greatest fondness, what
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: an amazing run, several great moments. But sometimes it's like, Okay, well,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: how good were they really? And then compare that to
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: what we're watching right now. So the Tigers that year
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: were ninety five.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: And sixty seven. They did not win the division.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: They were a wildcard team right now, all right, at
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: this point in the season, they were a couple.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: There were several games ahead of this.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Pace of the of the twenty twenty five team Cody
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: eighty one to forty five versus seventy four and fifty three.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: So like so at a higher at a higher pace.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: So give them that respect. But see, this is why
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: I want to do this exercise. I gotta fight recency
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: bias versus like the pinnacle of my childhood, you know.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: So let's just let's just go straight down the order.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: We'll go in positional numerical order. Catcher Pudge Rodriguez, the
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: Hall of Famer, the man who, if he doesn't decide
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: to come to Detroit, probably none of this happens.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: He was a three point one war player that year.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Cody Dylan Dingler.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: It's been great this year. He's he's kind of getting there.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: He's kind of getting there. He's gonna I think he's
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: gonna get to I think he's gonna surpass three point one.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: He's at two point eight right now.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know that's that's an uncomfortable conversation. I don't
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: know if I want to make that call. But the
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: raw numbers there are kind of pointing me in a direction.
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to pull this up for us right now, Kieran,
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: just looking at the comparison between them, it is pretty
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: remarkable to think Dylan Dingler is even in the same
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: conversation as Pud Rodriguez, but yet he very much is
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: here we go. Obviously, this season is not over, and
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: Dingler is gonna edge Pudge likely in war. Wouldn't be
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: shocked to be passed in homers. Pudge hit three hundred,
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: shouldn't discredit that. Obp you know Dingler will have to
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: finish really strong to pass him there. But even compare
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: it to league average, Dingler has the better ops plus.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: I don't know if Dylan Dylan Dinger is a great player.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: Don't know if he's gonna go into the Hall of Fame.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: I don't know how many All Star Games will make.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: It's a great defensive catcher, but when in a Gold
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: Glove at catcher is a very difficult, a hard thing
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: to do, right. I just can't go against Pad Rodriguez. Right.
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: If you're making me pick one, I'm taking Pudge just
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: the intangible, the way he changed the entire culture of
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: the Tigers. I am going Pudge. But it's important to
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: look at this and realize just how good Dylan Dingler
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: has been, and to realize this is his first full
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: major league season. Dingler was a good prospect coming up.
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: I never would have pegged him to be this impactful
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: this early in his career. It's pretty interesting to think
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: about the player he could become.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Right and you know, it is worth noting that Dingler
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: is in his what age twenty sixth season?
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Is that what it is?
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: And uh and Pudge this was him at thirty four
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: years old. So it's it's more impressive than what Dingler's
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: doing because because of that, and I'm not gonna I
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: will not physically pick against Pudge. We but we laid
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: the numbers out there just so everybody could know. Uh,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: all right, first base, first base Cody Special Torklsen, the
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: renaissance man is currently sitting at like a two four
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: two five war Uh, we've we've talked about Torque. Don't
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: need to explain everything there. But it's been great to
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: see Chris Shelton. I mentioned him earlier and that start
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: that he had to the six season, I just did
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: this really quickly. I believe his last home run of
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: the year was hit on like July second.
• 21:57
  Speaker 5: That's wild, but he's still We'll finish the season with
• 22:01
  Speaker 5: a one point three more so that gives you an
• 22:03
  Speaker 5: idea of like how just on fire he was to
• 22:08
  Speaker 5: begin that year and he was the guy that people
• 22:10
  Speaker 5: were talking about, like they were talking Yeah.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there was a lot of national stuff earlier on Shelton.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: Than really anything else, but they ended up going, you know,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: at the trade deadline acquiring Sean Casey, who I didn't realize,
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: you know, the numbers were that bad, but he was
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: a negative six war player.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: So we'll just go with the guy with the.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: UH with the more impressive numbers, Shelton versus Torque.
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: What do you think, Yeah, towards the better player. You know,
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: all the numbers hints at that. Interesting that Shelton sustained
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: a three forty OHBP like that'll play. That's why the
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: war is at one point three. Wasn't that bad despite
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: not doing much after June or July. But we just
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: talked a couple episodes ago about the consistency of Spencer
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: Torklesen and how much that should should be appreciate. I
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: think that shows up when you really compare the two. Obviously,
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: the Homers are greater, the overall offensive contribution is greater,
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: a better first basement overall than Chris Shelton was in
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: two thousand and six.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and just to give Shelton his flowers here, in
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: April slash March of two thousand and six, he hit
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: ten home runs and he had one point one eighty
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: six ops. May significantly slowed down, but he was still
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: getting on. He still got a three forty on base.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: He was four or four on base in April. He
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: had a three forty on base in May, and then yeah,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: he hit his last home run of the season on
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: July second, and he only hit four uh in June.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: So I mean, just talk about get you know, a
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: moment in time, Chris Shelton. But you know what we're
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: still talking about. We still remember it, so you know,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: credit credit to him there. But I think Torque has
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: to have the edge, all right, second base, this is
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Placidio Polanco versus Labor Torres.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Now Polanco was on our old.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Quarter century team for his body of work with the Tigers,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: but this season specifically this you know, our graphic here
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: on YouTube doesn't show this, but obviously Glaber was a
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: starting second basement for the American League All Star Team.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Kind of feel like this is a this is a
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: this is a glaber.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: Yah, I think this is a glaber. It's interesting to
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: look at how much Baseball Reference war hates Glaber and
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: a reminder that he just does not grade out well
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: on defense. Two thousand and six, Polanco was worth nine
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: defensive run saved, So I think it's pretty clear to
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: stay Polanco is the better de defender here, but Glaber's
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: going to end up having the better overall season. He's
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: been so good at the plate, even though he has
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: been a little bit of an extended cold spell here.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: I think both important guys for the makeup of the team.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: I want to give them both that, Like the Ploco
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: obviously had more years likely than tours will be, but
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: I feel like both guys kind of epitomized like what
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: the teams were trying to be about.
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah time, yeah, and that that leads to like another
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: interesting comparison between these two teams, Like very different constructions,
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: but they're gonna end up with similar offensive profiles. The
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: two thousand and six Tigers finish eighth in run scored
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: in MLB. The Tigers right now twenty twenty five our seventh.
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: The two thousand and six Tigers, although Placido Polanka wasn't
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: providing the power, they finished sixth in home runs. The
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: current Tigers are eighth. Two thousand and six kind of
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: the whole league hadn't bought in the on obp and
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: Walker great yet kind of just starting finish twenty eighth,
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: which is crazy. If you finish twenty eighth and walk
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: right today, you're probably not going to have a very
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: good team. But the current Tigers are twentieth. Both of
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: these teams don't get on base as much as you
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: would like, but have found ways to produce runs and
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: actually hit for a lot of power. So that's just
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: worth noting when we compare these two teams.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: All right, So if you're keeping score at home, we're
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: going to advantage Pudge, We're going to advantage Torque, advantage
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: labor OH six is about to make some ground here.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: Cody at shortstop. Carlos y En a name that is
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: still associated with the Tigers, but for another amazing reason
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: with Spanish language translator in Spanish language radio broadcast that
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: mister Carlos does currently with the team.
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: Obviously different different guy to be great guy.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: The name is the same, but Carlos Yen an integral
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: part like I still have trading cards of like traded
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: to the Tigers when he's got the Seattle uniform on
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: and one of the better steals we probably should have done.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Best trades of the quarter century one of the better
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: steals of the quarter century for the Tigers. They got
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: all kinds of production out of carlos and O. Six
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: was an amazing season six War Cody six war in
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: two thousand and six for carlos Ki in and with
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: a three twenty batting average, thirty years old, right in
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: the prime of his career, and a guy that I
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: still think if you put me, if you had me
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: play MVP Baseball two thousand and four, I still think
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: I could get I could get seventy home runs with
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: that swing.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, here's another interesting reminder. Comparing these two teams is
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: not necessarily one to one. Going position by position not
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: necessarily a totally accurate way to do it, even though
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: it's it's what we're doing right now. Tigers haven't really
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: had one shortstop. Obviously, there's been a lot of Hobby bias.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: There's been a lot of Trey Sweeney, there's been some
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: Zach McKinstry mixed in there. For the sake of just comparing,
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: we're putting Tray Sweeney on this graphic. It's not really close.
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: You can see Yeah, the O six Tigers making up
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: a lot of grounds here, But the Tigers don't function
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: with an every day shortstop like the O six Tigers did.
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: They don't function with one singular guy at most positions
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: like the six Tigers mostly did. So that's certainly important
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: to remember too. But yeah, man, looking back on these
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: numbers from gian what a season the dude had.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: Tenth and MVP voting by the way of that year.
• 28:42
  Speaker 6: Uh uh.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: And as amazing as the as those six Tigers teams
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: were in general, not as All Star Layden as the
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty five Tigers, wherever that's worth. Uh So, Yeah,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, just an amazing season that year. And then
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: you know, if we with respect to Trey Sweeney, McKinstry,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: even Baias like none of them were gonna, you know,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: compare it to giann and six. Uh, same thing kind
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: of said with third base Brandon nine obviously the third
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: base and Brandon Ninch is a guy that's really special.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: I hope we can get him on one of these times,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: because uh he was he was one of those players
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: that you always rooted for because he was there when
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: things were down and then he got to taste the
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: success as well, not to mention the defensive versatility and
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: like all these things.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: One of the better.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Right hand when he got a hold of one one
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: of the more fun right handed swings that that you
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: could watch. And he was But I say all that
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: because that's sentimental. Oh six, he was just good. Like
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: it's not just like, oh.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: Isn't it cool?
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: Brandon Ninche is on a good team, No, man, Brandon
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: n inchels a five more player in two thousand and six,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: all right, and he like he hit uh twenty seven
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: home runs, Like the dude was just a baller. And
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: I get talk about articles. I still haverales talking about
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: his like athletic feats where it's like he could throw
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: a baseball one hundred yards, he could kick a whatever
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: yard field goal. He like, oh like he was just
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: like he could donk Like I don't like all these
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: like things that just like super athlete stuff. He was
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: that no wonder he was able to play catcher and
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: third base at the at the major league level, and
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: then you know have the kind of offensive production he had.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: It was his age twenty nine season, and that compares
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: to I just kind of put McKinstry throw Keith in there.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: McKinstry right now is a tier lower than a three
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: War player.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: Keith.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't say that's his home.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: It'd be nice if it were, but he's he's approaching
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: the two war threshold there. So as of right now,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: these guys aren't, you know, getting the production out That
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: brand n in Chad No. Six So I think that's
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: a that's a bandage of six.
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for that every reason, Baseball Reference doesn't want to
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: pull this up, so we can't. We can't show the graphic.
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: But Brandon inche Man heck of a season.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Another one that's quite an easy call. Craig Monroe in
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: left field versus Riley Green in left field. Riley Green
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: all star starter, It's gonna hit thirty home runs. I mean,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Monroe was a point eight War player. He was another
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: guy that you know had kind of been built up
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: through through the down years and was able to taste
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: the success. But Riley Green is a young like star
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: like he is an All Star.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: He is a star.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: One of the first guys to talk about with the Tigers.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: This one's a pretty easy choice for me.
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Craig Monroe, who I didn't think would be talking
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: about on the podcast anytime soon. Here we are. He
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: had twenty eight home runs, all right, we shouldn't discount that,
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: but OBP was only three oh one. Riley, I think
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: is easily a superior defender, like the overall body of
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: is clearly a lot better. But hey, Simo did provide
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: a lot of power for that team. Drove in ninety
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: two runs. Even though it doesn't quite translate to war,
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: he did some things that impacted winning.
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, and we are gonna get through the rest of
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: the lineup. Comparing six to two thousand and five. The
• 32:20
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• 33:24
  Speaker 1: All right, coming back here center field. I think this
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: is a clear advantage one. But it's a fun it's
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: a fun discussion. Curtis granderson Is coming out party. It
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: was not his peak as a player, but it was
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: his coming out party. And like I said, like my
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: my favorite guy used to do the handwave on the
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: on the bat like him and playing and pony ball,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: but he was a three point three war player. I
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: put Bias in center field for this discussion. We all
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: know about the season of Bias. It's a remark. It's
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: over markable thing to watch. He is a two war player,
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: and you could argue there's a lot of value in
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: the fact that he was able to I mean, where
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: would they be without being able to put Hobby in
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: center field? Let's be honest there, But like this, this
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: has got to be a Curtis advantage in my opinion.
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, interesting to look like. Hobby hasn't been
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: as going lately, obviously, but as still, like you said,
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: close to a two war season. The defense has been
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: really good. He's been a valuable member of this team,
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: even as his offensive production has tapered off. But Curtis
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: Granderson man was he was still young. He was twenty
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: five years old. That was his really his first full
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: major league season. He was just getting started. But that
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: guy could do a lot and was a big difference
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: maker for that team.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: Back in the early days of player media. He had
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: in two thousand and seven season, he had a weekly
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: blog on ESPN dot com that I was.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: A regular reader of.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: And to give you an idea of how long ago
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: that was. One of the things he talked about in
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: the blog was getting the first iPhone and so so yeah,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: love Curtis and then obviously an integral part. So obviously
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: he's introcal of two thousand and six, but the fact
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: that he was the prime piece of the trade that
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: eventually led Austin Jackson to the team, like there are
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: multiple layers to the impact of Curtis Granderson in recent
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: Tigers history. And a good broadcaster too, by the way,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: all right, right field, this one is another I would
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: say easy call. But in fairness, Maglio did not have
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: his best season in two thousand and six. He would
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: have better seasons later. He has the moment, So this
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: is not gonna be a zag on Macleo in two
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: thousand and six, but but he was. He was not
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: his best self in two thousand and six, a one
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: point nine war, and I had I have Wentzel Perez
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: as the right fielder of record for this team. You
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: could obviously put Karp there, but then you know what
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: you do at the AH. We'll talk about that, and
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: Perez is a guy that I still think the arrow
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: is going up. We knew exactly what Maglio was at
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: that time if he didn't have his best season, but
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: he has the moment. He lives forever as a Tigers
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: legend that can never be taken away. Maglio o'doniez is
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: my right fielder of record.
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, winsl Man. Gosh, he's been great. I mean not
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: far removed from that ten pitch at bat. Holmer's on
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: the tenth pitch after he had fouled you know, one
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: off deep almost two that would have been home runs
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: but were foul to spark the Tigers their first run
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: of the game. Like he's He's just come up in
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: so many moments like that, something you wouldn't maybe know
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: just looking at the score she or the stats, like
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: we're watching a team every day. You appreciate winceel Perez
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: even more, but Maglio was kind of the fulcrum of
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: that order. Hit two ninety eight, hit twenty four home runs.
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: The twenty six team doesn't do what it did without Maglio,
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: not just for the postseason home run, but really the
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: body of work. He was arguably the best player on
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: that team. So he gets the atch here.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: And also I want to give him credit for, you know,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: another one like Pudge like this making the decision. Now
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: we know money talks, but making the decision, and he
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: was injured. I understand all that, but making the decision
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: to go to Detroit that helped those kind of things,
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: like help change the culture. So I want to give him,
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: give him credit for that. And he wasn't All Star
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: in two thousand and six, so credit where credit is
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: due there, even though again it wasn't his best season
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: with the Tigers DH. The DH of record for the
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: six team is Marcus Tams who my dad always likes,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: the the guys that are just like the d H fiends,
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: like he loved you know, Keats Brown back in the day,
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: you know, uh, and so like you know Mark Marcus
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: Thames being twenty nine in a DH he only had
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: a one to one war season, but yeah, twenty six
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: home runs, all right, and and and he and he
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: was a guy that if there was a pin chit situation,
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: you felt you felt confident that he was going to
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: be able to like there was a power element there that,
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: like you you assume something good was gonna happen.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: That's how I felt in the moment.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: But Carry Carpenter is a guy he could have put
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: him in the right field, but he's he is uh,
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: he is as pure hitter as they come.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: With with from the left handed side, and uh, we
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: still haven't seen I don't think the best version of
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Carry Carpenter, even though he is having a pretty good version.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: It's the but it's his career best season. But I
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: still think there's more that he that that he can reach.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: That's my confidence level in Carrie. So I give the
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: edge to Carry because I think if you want to
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: play this out longer, he's a better fielder than Marcus was.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: He's certainly a better arm. But I want to give right.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: I didn't realize Marcus had that many home runs in
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: two thousand and six.
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: Right Again, like the Tigers obviously cycle a lot of
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: different guys through the DH spot, Carrie this this team
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: does not function without him. We've seen recently how big
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: of a difference maker he can be, but he hasn't
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: played a full season. So you want to pick a player,
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: it's fair to pick Marcus Tims. Overall at the DH spot,
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: the two thousand and six Tigers had a seven to
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: seventy four OPS. The current Tigers actually only have a
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: seven to fourteen OPS from the DH spot. Carrie's been
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: in right field really for most of this recent spell.
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: They only ring twenty second in the league in production
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: from DH, which is is kind of interesting to look at.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: As listening and smiling, he's like, yeah, you guys think
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: it's DH.
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: Just throw somebody the hit her there.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like you had Cole Keith leading off playing DH,
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: and you're talking about where we ranked DH wise, and.
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Baseball Tigers maybe tenth in production from pinch hitters
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: a seven to twenty three ops, whereas two thousand and six,
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: let's see what we got. I don't think they use
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: near as many six ninety so a little bit of
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: a different level of production off the bench.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: Well, speaking of the bench, I mean, if you look
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: at the six team, you know Omar and Fonte was
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: a one point three War player, Vance Wilson one War
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: player as a backup catcher.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Uh, but and Alexi Gomez had a moment there. But
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: really it's not as deep. I feel like, I don't know,
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: maybe it's my recentcy bias and my aj hinchesm is
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: running into my head. I feel like it's not a
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: deep as deep a squad positional player wise, as as
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: what we're watching right now, it just feels like that
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: the construction is to use the bench as part time starters,
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: not as bench guys.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: That's how AJ does.
• 41:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, in two thousand and six, the Tigers average zero
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: point five pinch hitters per game. These Tigers average one
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: point two six pinch hitters per game. So pretty big
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: difference in the amount of that's just pinch hitting. That's
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: not even including the general mixing and matching of the roster.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: Right Uh, all right, let's go to starting pitching. So
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: the Verlander, the Verlander versus Schooble thing comes up again. Obviously,
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: the body of work does not compare Verlander versus Schooble. However,
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: for the six season and what we're watching right now,
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: clearly Schooble is the better player. He's also older, like
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: you know, these aren't like controversial takes or whatever.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: He had.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: He was a more established, more established player coming off
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: of Cy Young than Verlander was in six. So that's
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: the advantage Tigers there. But if you just look at
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: the starting pitching rotation in general, it's not close.
• 42:14
  Speaker 6: It is.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: It's not close.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: Credit to Pudge for what he was able to do
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: because we got because you know, the old school catcher
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: at that time, but Bonderman, Kenny Rodgers, you know, Zach Miner.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: I remember Nate Robinson. These are guys that, like probably
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: should get a little bit more do than than then
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: they currently receive. And Kenny Rodgers and again another one
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: of those culture changers coming to the Tigers at the
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: end of his career. But Bonderman, God, he was only
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: twenty three and oh six. That just blows my mind.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: Nate Robinson, Verlanders.
• 42:53
  Speaker 3: Man a different era. Three guys through more than two
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: hundred innings, and Zach Miner only had ninety three. But
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: it's not like there were a lot of other guys
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: getting starts. Mike Maroth made nine starts. Will the Desmond
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: made seven starts, But a lot of times there's a saying, ah,
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: fifth starter, we'll skip them, We'll go back to Bonderman,
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: We'll go back to Rogers, We'll go back to Verlander,
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: whoever might have been, whose ever turn might have been
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: coming up. The pitcher usage was a little bit different,
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: you know, the war's really high on these guys, in
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: part because they were handling big workloads. There wasn't a
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: dominant pitcher on this staff in terms of ra but
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: they were all pretty good. And the pitching staff as
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: a whole had the best ra in baseball. So for
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: as good as Scoobao is, as good as the twenty
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: twenty five Tigers are, man, this was a heck of
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: a rotation and the pitching staff as a whole was
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: better in two thousand and six.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely for relievers.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: This is another one that there is a time that
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: we could have done this exercise where like fighting for
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: the twenty twenty five team was.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: Was was the move now?
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: Now I think now was Zamaya, who by the way,
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: was a three War player in two thousand and six
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: or excuse me, yeah, two thousand and six. And then
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: Fernando Rodney was obviously a big piece of that bullpen,
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: Todd Jones getting it done thirty seven saves that season.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: Jason Grilly was another guy that could be used in
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: a variety of variety of roles. And I remember this
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: Andrew Miller getting drafted and then just basically immediately being
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: brought up to U to the major league team.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Uh he ended up with a I.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: Mean, pitching eight games and not nothing for a guy
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: who just came off the College World Series. So so
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: I with the struggles of the bullpen, I thought there
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: was that there was a case for this, but it
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: may maybe it will get to that point.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: But right now I'm going, oh, six.
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: Those six bullpen had the fourth best bullpen in the
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: ARA in baseball. The current Tigers have the seventeenth best
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: bullpen ERA in baseball. It's not really close, although it's
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: worth pointing out like the usage was a lot different.
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: There's more placed on the bullpen these days, but in
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: a way that makes it more important to be good.
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: And this current Tigers bullpen has not been great. Actually,
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: they rank ninth with a three point six y three
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: ERA post All Star break, things have been pretty good
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: in August, a correction that is probably bound to happen
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: a little bit, but you don't quite have the stability
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: that you had No.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: Six.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: Right, And for the sake of fairness when it comes
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: to manager, can we just call that a draw?
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: I don't. I don't want to offend either one AJ
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: versus Leland.
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah. It was just always interesting to hear the guys
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: on that six team talk about Jim Leland talk about
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: the difference he immediately made when he walked through that door,
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: and talked about how he shepherded so many of them
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: along early in their careers, like impactful more than just
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: managing on the field. I'll be fascinated to hear, you know,
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: how Riley Green and Spencer Twirkelsen are talking about AJ
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: Hinch twenty years from now, because I actually think we're
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: going to hear a lot of the same things. And
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: that was a question for the past couple of years
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: I had, like, we know, AJ is this great tactical manager.
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: Our guy's going to talk about though, the difference he
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: made in their careers and teaching them to play at
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: the big league level. The longer AJ has been in Detroit,
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: I think We've begun to hear kind of more and
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: more of that kind of here that from some of
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: his former Astros players. So yeah, tough to pick one
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: over the other. Very different, but very somehow very similar
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: at the same time.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: One of the beauties of baseball is how like it
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: transcends generations and they're connected in so a way. So
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: like Alan Trammel and Kirk Gibson doing that for the
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: young guys before Jim Leland got there, those stories have
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: been told, and then Jim Leland on Jim Leland Day
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: last season, go get an effing win, you know, and
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: then him saying if you respect me as a baseball man,
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: like I'm telling you like this, this is like this
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: is on the right track. I'm paraphrasing. Obviously you were
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: there for that and one of those things. In the moment,
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: it's like, okay, yeah, it's cool, but then when you
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: see what happens afterward, it's like, wow, that actually was
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: sort of like you know, serve of attorney attorning point.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: So, uh, Craig.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: One of the best things about baseball is you can
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: have moments like that that connect generations and and and
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: and create special memory.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: So if we're doing a count.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: I did buy the lineup and then bench and then
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: starting pitchers and relievers, and then we did a draw manager.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: So that's seven for the six team and five for
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: the twenty twenty five.
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: Tigers.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: So Pudge over Dingler, just threecap Pudge over Dingler, Torque
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: over Shelton, Glabor over Polanco, Inge over McKinstry, Slash, Keith
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: Gien over Sweeney, Green over Monroe, Granderson over Biez, Ordnies
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: over Perez, Carpenter over Thames, advantage starters advantage relievers for
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: the six team, and then a draw at manager.
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: So by the.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: Numbers, we just talked about for like forty minutes, six
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: teams better. So that's that's the official POSI.
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: And Scott Harrish like, but the bench has to count
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: as like, you know, three times more valuable.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, hey, look Scott, you want to come on and
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: fight for this, We'll have you on and just let
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: you cook on why the numbers are are in your
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: favorite So that was a lot of fun. They get
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: Oscar Hot Tower for that suggestion, go down memory relane
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: and then assess it based on what we're watching here.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: Always a fun exercise. Who anything else, Cody before we
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: jet out of here.
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: No, No, that's took a long time, but that was
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: fun and interesting how you kind of learned some things
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: about both teams just through that exercise.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, and maybe we'll do one for the thirteen twelve
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: team eleven team you know.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: Have Austin on here.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: Might not be the last time we do that exercise.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: So you can follow us on x foly known as
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: Twitter at Cody Stavean Haagen, I'm a care Underscore decintely
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: pop page at Tiger Territory Underscore Tiger Territory shop dot com.
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: Get your Tiger Territory merch Instagram.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: YouTube, Apple, Spotify review five stars. You guys know what
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: to do. We appreciate all of you so for Cody
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: staven Haagen, I'm Kieran Steckley. Everybody, have great day.