Latest / Becoming Parents Podcast / IUI, IVF and a 3-Year Journey to Becoming “Human Dad with Tony Berardo - S7 E90

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IUI, IVF and a 3-Year Journey to Becoming “Human Dad with Tony Berardo - S7 E90 · Becoming Parents Podcast

• 0:00
  Welcome to Becoming Parents podcast.
• 0:02
  I'm your host Jennifer Campbell, mom of 18 and executive director
• 0:05
  of the Doula Co-op of Nevada. With more than 15 years in birth
• 0:08
  work, I've had the privilege of walking beside families through
• 0:11
  life's transitions. My work centers on connection,
• 0:14
  community, and amplifying voices that too often go unheard.
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  Each of these episodes is an honest conversation about the
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  messy, beautiful, and transformative experiences that
• 0:23
  shape us as parents and as people.
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  I'd like to extend a heartfelt thank you to the incredible
• 0:28
  guests who show up with and authenticity to share their
• 0:31
  stories with us. Let's dive right in.
• 0:34
  Welcome to becoming parents. Today I am with Tony Berardo.
• 0:37
  Tony, how are you today? Amazing.
• 0:39
  Jennifer, thank you for having me.
• 0:41
  I am so excited to have you because this is such a great
• 0:45
  perspective and I want you to jump in and share your parenting
• 0:48
  journey with us. Thanks.
• 0:50
  Yeah, it's, you know, I don't know if anybody can relate out
• 0:53
  there, but me, I just turned, I'm about to be 41, but we kind
• 0:58
  of started the whole process of having kids.
• 1:00
  I wasn't really too excited about it because my 20s and 30s
• 1:02
  I, you know, I don't know, I, I never saw myself with kids.
• 1:06
  It just, it wasn't part of my long term strategy.
• 1:10
  I was like, I want to, I want to travel.
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  I want to, you know, drink all the time and not have any
• 1:14
  responsibilities and, you know, sit margaritas and hang out on
• 1:17
  the beach. And this fantasy that I had felt
• 1:21
  so good. And then we kind of went through
• 1:24
  this whole wild journey, which I'll share with, But when we got
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  to the end of it and the day my daughter was born, like
• 1:31
  everything changed. I there, there was this rush of
• 1:35
  just gratitude and emotion and love and something that I never
• 1:39
  thought I would enjoy. And now it's like, I can't even
• 1:44
  imagine having a Margarita on the beach, you know, because all
• 1:47
  I want to do is hang out with my daughter.
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  So it's, it's funny how that shifted.
• 1:53
  It could be a lot of things. I mean, maybe it's you get older
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  and maybe that's why because we didn't have our kid until I was
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  about 38. So maybe there's a little bit
• 1:59
  maturity aspect of that. But our quick parenting journey
• 2:02
  was my my wife. We've been together over 10
• 2:06
  years and she was a teacher. So she's always had that
• 2:09
  maternal instinct and she always wanted to have multiple kids.
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  And we know when we got engaged and married and all that, I kind
• 2:16
  of like brushed her under the rug.
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  I was like, I'll talk her out of it.
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  Like, she's not going to want kids.
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  I know how to sell. I know how to sell this.
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  Yeah. It didn't go well.
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  I was like, I know how to sell this thing.
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  She'll be fine. She'll she'll live.
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  You know, I'll take her on a couple trips and she'll like,
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  yeah, I don't want kids. Well, that didn't happen.
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  So we ended up, you know, of course, trying like on our
• 2:38
  honeymoon, like most people. And, you know, nothing clicked
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  like a couple miss, you know, misfires.
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  And we're like, oh, maybe maybe you're pregnant.
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  Let's take a test negative and we're like, all right, well, no
• 2:51
  big deal. Well, that went on for years.
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  And then we kind of got a we got a little concerned, so we both
• 2:57
  went to go get tested. I'm fine.
• 3:00
  My boys were fine. They were swimming just fine.
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  And and her girls, you know, she was fine.
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  She was fertile, everything was good, but for whatever reason,
• 3:07
  you know, I don't know it, we just we weren't clicking, we
• 3:11
  weren't matching. So we figured out what our
• 3:13
  options would would be. We decided to go to the IUI
• 3:16
  route first and if people don't know, they could look it up.
• 3:19
  I'm no expert in it, but we went IUI three times.
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  Obviously my wife dealt with the the biggest baggage there
• 3:27
  physically and mentally and that didn't work.
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  So then our fertility Dr. was like, well, we could try IVF,
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  which is a little bit more aggressive and obviously it's
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  more expensive and they go through the whole thing.
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  And we did that two times. It didn't work.
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  So now she's three IU is in two IVFS in still nothing.
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  And by this time, remember, we've been trying for years.
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  So now we're spending, I think at that point we're up to like
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  almost 200 grand we spent in this whole process.
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  It was a three-year journey, probably two dozen negative,
• 4:00
  negative pregnancy tests. So just it's a lot.
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  Obviously it's a lot for me, but it's also, I mean, I can't speak
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  for her. I could just tell you that she
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  was she was beat up and you know, we talked about it before
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  you went on airhead, but it was, you know, physically for them
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  emotionally, just that the hormones, you get pumped in the
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  shots that you have to do a couple times a week.
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  It's just it's so much and so heartbreaking because there's
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  nothing I could really do about it except try to be supportive.
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  But then also like, how do we have the conversation of like,
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  what if this doesn't work? You know, all this money and
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  then what's the next step? Adoption, you know, surrogacy,
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  Like what do we do? Thankfully though, the third IVF
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  took and now it's like, whoa, they don't even, you don't even
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  do a pregnancy test, right, 'cause typically they, we go 2
• 4:48
  weeks and they do blood work and then they call you.
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  So we didn't even get the sexiness of having the pregnancy
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  test, which kind of stinks, you know, of course, like we took it
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  right afterwards. So that way we could like just
• 5:01
  video it and have it in our memory.
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  But they called us, which is kind of a little bit more
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  powerful, I would say, like emotionally, because the doctor
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  called and said, OK, guys, are you are you sitting down very
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  serious? And we're like, we look at each
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  other, we hold each other's hands.
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  And we kind of expected her to say nothing happened.
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  And then she goes, you're pregnant.
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  And then we just, you know, we bawled.
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  Both of us bawled. And I think that's kind of where
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  I knew, oh, this is what this parenting thing is about.
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  This is the feeling that I get. And that was like the first
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  moment where I felt that I wanted to be a father.
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  It didn't hit me fully until in the delivery room, but that's
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  what that's when the first wave of emotions happened.
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  So anyway, here we are. Fast forward, we got our
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  daughter that's a 2 1/2 now. And I've, I've dedicated
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  literally my entire life to make sure that whatever business I'm
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  in, you know, I've owned my own company for four years.
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  But the whole goal of that as we're going through this IUIIVF
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  process is I was like, I want to be able to work from home and be
• 6:02
  able to spend time with my kid. And now I I designed my entire
• 6:06
  business around that philosophy. It's so crazy, like Margarita's
• 6:09
  on the beach forever. And Nope.
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  And now you're like laptop beach chair with, you know, it's
• 6:17
  that's right. I think one of the issues with
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  parenting is that I this is the example I give.
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  It's like telling somebody what salt tastes like who's never
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  tasted salt. It is possible to do.
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  It's impossible to say this is how it's going to end.
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  We all feel a little differently, too.
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  But, you know, as a doula, when I was in private practice, I was
• 6:42
  always like, you know what, Tony?
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  This baby's going to be born. They're going to put the baby on
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  mom's chest. And all I can tell you at that
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  point is you will not know what's going on in the room and
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  you will be crying. And Dad, you're like, not me
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  that I don't, I don't have all that PBG being I'm like 100% of
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  the time that dad has no idea what's going on in the room and
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  is crying. And there you can't do anything
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  to prep for this. That's right.
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  And you can read all the books. You can even really want kids.
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  You can be excited about it. And I remember one of my
• 7:18
  daughter's when she was pregnant, she's like, first of
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  all, I'm going to be a much better mom than you.
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  I'm like, I hope so, man. I hope you take it.
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  I did everything I've done in my life and you one up me.
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  That is definitely a goal of for my kids and we'll see when we
• 7:31
  get there. And you know, then having a
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  child call me with a 2 year old crying, like, how did you do
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  this? And I, you know what I mean?
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  Like she's like, well, I've been a nanny, I've taken all these
• 7:41
  classes like dude, nothing is going to prepare you for this.
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  Nothing. Well, it's even, even if you,
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  even if you put it up in your head of like what could be and
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  you prepare yourself, there's things that other parents don't
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  even warn you about. Like you know what they always
• 7:57
  say? Well, make sure you get some
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  sleep because you're going to. That's kind of true, sort of.
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  But the struggle, the struggle that I realized was forget about
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  like not getting sleep. You can survive.
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  It's it's your relationship with your spouse.
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  That's when you get tested during those moments because you
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  don't right? You don't understand that you're
• 8:16
  not getting sleep. Sure, the baby's not sleeping,
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  you're frustrated, blah blah blah blah blah.
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  But you're going to argue way more with your spouse in those
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  like 1st 18 months, you know, having a a kid that doesn't
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  sleep than you ever have in a decade being married without
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  kids. And anyway.
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  It's not like when you were in college and you were drinking
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  and you pulled in all nighter and went to class.
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  Way different. Yeah, it's crazy different.
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  It's so weird though. Wife will have like the
• 8:42
  equivalent of 100 birth control pills in her body, running
• 8:45
  through her body every single day.
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  She'll be physically healing and, and still even as as like a
• 8:52
  woman going through it, it's a blur for some people and for men
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  going through it, they're like, yeah, I I don't know how to
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  understand. I understand on paper, I get
• 9:01
  what she's going through, but. And you are in a different
• 9:04
  position because going through and that's what we talked about
• 9:08
  in the beginning. I went through infertility until
• 9:10
  IVFIUI wasn't even on the table for me.
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  But I did the 10 months of seven surgeries and Clomid and Provera
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  and feeling like someone you don't like took over your body
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  and just, it's such A and then the roller coaster of all those
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  dozens of pregnancy tests and yeah, it's hard for you, super
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  hard for you. And for her, it's like, how do
• 9:33
  you even relate to what she's going through physically and
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  emotionally? And, and it's like you want to
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  do it, but you're forced to feel a certain way in order to play
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  this game. Totally.
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  And it and it's so hard, it's so hard.
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  So you guys went IUI three times and then IVF three times.
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  And holy crap, when I, when I came on, I was like, I, my
• 9:58
  heart. I cannot imagine.
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  Because then you feel like shame and failure and like your body's
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  broken and I can't do something that should be easy, which is an
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  untrue thing that we teach ourselves.
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  I. Don't know what a journey tell
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  me like we don't talk about that.
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  And again, I always feel like pregnancy, labor and delivery
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  and postpartum, each of those 10 things could happen, right?
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  There's ten side effects, so to speak.
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  Everyone's going to get 7. We don't know which seven you're
• 10:31
  going to get, and we don't know how severe they're going to be.
• 10:33
  So it's almost impossible to prep people for what?
• 10:37
  What is this going to be like? Because even from one child to
• 10:40
  the next child, same couple, you know, you've been through it
• 10:43
  before, but it's, it's different even every time within the same
• 10:47
  couple. And so talk me through your
• 10:49
  relationships, through IVF and through all of that and then
• 10:53
  parenting and, and what you did. Yeah, I mean, the, the whole IVF
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  thing obviously was, was wild for a lot of reasons.
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  I mean, obviously she's, you know, going through all this
• 11:02
  stuff and I'm trying to be supportive.
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  And you also want to be the rock, right?
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  You don't want to be Debbie Downer saying hey, you know,
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  because I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but I never, I never
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  said this to my wife, but I would imagine if I did it piss
• 11:14
  her off. But if I said hey, don't worry
• 11:17
  if it doesn't work, no big deal. Oh.
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  My gosh, did you imagine always a dodge or hey, you can?
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  Like that's the work, especially for someone like her who's, you
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  know, she's been a teacher for a decade.
• 11:28
  She's always wanted kids. This is like to her our purpose.
• 11:32
  Like, you know, she wants to be a stay at home mom.
• 11:34
  She doesn't want to work. That's not right for everybody,
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  but that is her. So I had to figure out how to
• 11:39
  navigate that, you know, side of things where I'm trying to be
• 11:42
  supportive, but also like I'm trying to be a realist.
• 11:45
  You know, that we only have so much money in the bank.
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  We can't do this thing forever. So we have to be a little bit
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  optimistic. We have to do everything we can.
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  And I was kind of more on the side of checking the boxes to
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  make sure we're doing everything right because I didn't want her
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  to worry about, oh, so we have to, you know, do this shot today
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  and then we have to research this And then I, I need to make
• 12:05
  sure that I'm sleeping, you know, upside down.
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  And I didn't want her to worry about all that crap.
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  So I literally like I put together a checklist.
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  We, we did it together, we game planned.
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  We kind of treat it like a business a little bit, which
• 12:17
  exactly. And that kind of worked for us
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  mainly because again, I think the structure and the
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  inconsistency that we've dealt with three years prior, trying
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  to do everything, it was so like out of our control.
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  I think having some sort of system in place and organizing
• 12:33
  it properly and doing shots at the exact same time every day
• 12:36
  and making sure we're not going out to dinner to avoid that,
• 12:39
  make sure we're not drinking just in case that affects it.
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  Like all these little thing holding each other accountable
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  and having these checklist to make sure that we are both on
• 12:46
  the same page. And we treated it as if, hey, we
• 12:49
  did everything right. We did it for X amount of weeks,
• 12:52
  X amount of months. If it doesn't happen, at least
• 12:54
  we know we did everything. And we didn't want to make sure
• 12:58
  we went through the whole process and maybe she was
• 13:00
  drinking a bottle of wine every week and then she doesn't get
• 13:02
  pregnant. And then we're like, well, shit,
• 13:04
  we probably shouldn't have the bottle of wine like we wanted
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  to. We really wanted to, you know,
• 13:08
  dot our TS and, and cross our eyes.
• 13:10
  So that's kind of where I landed on that side of thing.
• 13:13
  I try to manage it that way. And then, you know, when we
• 13:16
  finally found out we were pregnant, of course it was, it
• 13:18
  was amazing. And we started the process of
• 13:20
  doing everything we we we could to make sure this was a, a
• 13:24
  perfect home for our daughter. And we found out it was a girl
• 13:27
  right away because when you do these type of things, typically
• 13:29
  you get the embryos and they tell you the sex of each one.
• 13:33
  So that was amazing. So we were super excited to
• 13:35
  decorate pink and, and sage and, and beige colors all over the
• 13:38
  place. So we started that and I'm
• 13:42
  telling you I I'm not very religious, but I think whoever
• 13:49
  is helping us out up there and, and guiding us, I deserved a
• 13:55
  girl, you know, like I, I deserve is probably not the I
• 14:01
  needed a girl. That's probably the best word
• 14:04
  because I, I feel like a boy would have kept me on the same
• 14:07
  path, you know, mentally in, in terms of, you know, being strong
• 14:13
  and being the man and making sure I'm doing everything right
• 14:15
  and you know, yadda, yadda, yadda.
• 14:17
  Kind of like my dad did with me and you know, hey, you know, get
• 14:20
  out man, you know, slap on your boots and go to work type of
• 14:23
  thing. Now I'm kind of like, I listen
• 14:26
  more, I'm more compassionate, I'm softer.
• 14:29
  I'm still strong for my daughter, of course, and I'm
• 14:31
  teaching her everything that she needs to do to be strong in this
• 14:34
  wild world. But I also understood that it's
• 14:37
  kind of a bigger responsibility, at least for me to turn that
• 14:40
  switch because I was totally the opposite.
• 14:43
  But now that I'm a girl dad, I'm, I'm starting to understand
• 14:46
  instead of being a, a man that, you know, she looks up to, I'm
• 14:55
  kind of like setting the stage for a man that she eventually
• 14:59
  might find one day and raising that bar for her.
• 15:03
  You know, of course I want to set the good example, but I
• 15:07
  think that's, that's the big responsibility girls I've had
• 15:09
  where you really kind of have to change your whole attitude, man,
• 15:13
  like everything from, you know, how you approach things and how
• 15:16
  you narrate life. And I'm, I'm just man, I'm, I'm,
• 15:20
  I'm just realizing I, I had so many flaws and she has humbled
• 15:23
  me and, and made me a way better person.
• 15:27
  So I'm, I'm very blessed that that she ended up being a girl.
• 15:30
  I think you are intensely introspective though, which I I
• 15:34
  wish all dads kind of took that step back to gain a level of
• 15:38
  clarity, even admitting like I don't have all the answers and I
• 15:42
  am very imperfect. But you know, she's going to.
• 15:46
  I am modeling the relationship with my wife that I want her to
• 15:49
  eventually have and the type of man that I want her to
• 15:51
  eventually date. And who does that person look
• 15:54
  like? That's massive.
• 15:58
  And you know, we are youngest is 16 and we're always hugging and
• 16:03
  kissing and butt grabbing and stuff like that.
• 16:05
  And she's like, you gross. You know, my husband and I are
• 16:08
  very affectionate with each other.
• 16:09
  But whatever your relationship dynamic is modeling it.
• 16:13
  And you know, he said to her recently, Well, I hope someday
• 16:19
  when you have a relationship that you're with a man that
• 16:22
  loves you and treats you like I feel about your mom.
• 16:26
  And that is probably the most power.
• 16:29
  It gets me choked up, right? That is the most powerful thing.
• 16:32
  And even in discipline, I think, you know, when kids get into
• 16:36
  trouble or they're sassing back their mom, when the dad instead
• 16:40
  of saying don't do that or that's not appropriate or don't
• 16:44
  be disrespectful, saying don't treat my wife that way.
• 16:48
  You know, I mean, there's a shift in perspective in how
• 16:52
  you're it's the same discipline. It's the same thing.
• 16:54
  But like, that's my wife that you're treating badly.
• 16:56
  And I don't want anyone to treat my wife badly or, you know, or
• 17:00
  saying your mom, if that's not comfortable.
• 17:02
  But I mean, I for one time he said, I don't want you to ever
• 17:05
  talk to my wife like that again. I don't talk to her like that
• 17:08
  and you're not allowed to either.
• 17:09
  And I was like. That's huge, I.
• 17:12
  Was the wife, I'm like, OK, yeah, she should never.
• 17:15
  Also, we need to go have some alone time.
• 17:17
  Yeah. Right, exactly.
• 17:18
  You know, it's very powerful just the way you're presenting
• 17:22
  and the lens you're viewing parenting through because you're
• 17:25
  going to screw up. I mean, we feel like failures
• 17:27
  and screw ups every single day. We like, you know, we're not
• 17:31
  going to get it right. We're going to be sick.
• 17:33
  We're going to have a bad day. Work's going to be whatever
• 17:35
  things are going to happen. We're going to be exhausted.
• 17:38
  We're going to wish, huh? Yeah, I wish I'd handled that
• 17:41
  one a little bit better because with kids, it's like right here
• 17:44
  in your face in that moment and you have to react.
• 17:47
  You can't be like, let me think about that temper tantrum for a
• 17:50
  minute and go determine how I'm going to handle this.
• 17:52
  It's it's different. And I love seeing it like a
• 17:57
  business. And check if that made you
• 17:59
  involved. Yeah, yeah, 'cause I, I felt
• 18:02
  very out of place, you know, especially because I wasn't able
• 18:05
  to. Yeah.
• 18:05
  I felt like everything I was saying was wrong, which it
• 18:08
  probably was. But I learned really quickly
• 18:11
  that, you know, she's, she doesn't need me to tell her what
• 18:14
  to do. She needs control because she's
• 18:17
  feels very out of control. So I said, hey, what do you want
• 18:20
  to do? Do you want to do this?
• 18:21
  Do you want to do that? Do you want to like, make a
• 18:23
  checklist? And that way you hold yourself
• 18:24
  accountable. She's like, oh, yeah, that'd be
• 18:26
  cool. And she put together a binder
• 18:28
  and I had all the brochures and like, what to do, what not to
• 18:30
  do. We print out a bunch of stuff of
• 18:32
  like meal plans that might help potentially.
• 18:34
  And like all that stuff we kept in a little IVF binder, which we
• 18:37
  still have as a memento. But I think putting that
• 18:40
  together and watching her do that and like highlight certain
• 18:42
  areas and do check it again gave her that sense of control.
• 18:46
  And I just kind of set back and I was the puppeteer essentially
• 18:49
  of this wild idea and then just let her roll with it.
• 18:52
  And at least that that small little thing at least she can
• 18:55
  control. And you know, obviously it
• 18:58
  worked out well to our benefit, but even if it didn't, at least
• 19:00
  we knew we did everything right. I I know when I was going
• 19:03
  through that first section of infertility, they had me do a
• 19:07
  basal body temperature every day and they told you to have sex
• 19:10
  every other day. And sex like the most fun thing
• 19:12
  you do with this person that you love more than anything becomes
• 19:15
  like a tour. And it's really hard to keep
• 19:18
  your chip good, not just with the stress and with like the
• 19:22
  shots, but just like you're the things about your relationship
• 19:27
  that maybe that I loved the most.
• 19:30
  The intimacy. Yeah.
• 19:31
  Oh, the intimacy just becomes like a box to check off.
• 19:34
  And so it's it's just really challenging.
• 19:37
  Talk to me about becoming when you when she was born and you
• 19:42
  guys argue because this is probably one of the most common
• 19:45
  things. And even if people talk about
• 19:48
  it, I don't think you get it or understand it until you're in
• 19:50
  it. But I'd love to hear your
• 19:51
  perspective on that. Yeah.
• 19:53
  I mean, we, you know, again, we've been married over 10 years
• 19:57
  and we never, I mean, I can't remember a time that we argued
• 20:00
  honestly. We've disagreed and like had
• 20:02
  little, you know, little things about like maybe our friends.
• 20:06
  And, you know, we're like, hey, I can't believe you did that.
• 20:07
  Well, I can't believe you did that or whatever.
• 20:09
  Screw it. Like that type of stuff.
• 20:11
  It was never raising our voice to each other.
• 20:14
  The first time we raised our voice to each other aggressively
• 20:16
  was I think when our kid was maybe like 2 weeks old.
• 20:20
  Yeah. And we didn't again, looking
• 20:25
  back at this, the first I've maybe thought about it this
• 20:28
  heavily, but like, I don't even think we said anything to each
• 20:31
  other. It was, it was just that.
• 20:33
  And then we, you know, did our own separate thing and, you
• 20:35
  know, she put the kid down and I went to the couch and that was
• 20:39
  it. Then the next morning, you don't
• 20:40
  think about it. You're trying to raise this
• 20:42
  little human. So it's like, we're like, hey,
• 20:43
  we should talk about last night. It never happened.
• 20:46
  But then every other night we'd get into like a little tiff.
• 20:49
  Maybe it was like, you know, the baby was crying and she
• 20:54
  couldn't, you know, console her or calm her down.
• 20:57
  So then I took her and then of course she stopped crying.
• 20:59
  And then that was a nightmare because then of course mom feels
• 21:03
  like what, you know what I mean, failure.
• 21:05
  And and then she gets mad at me and I'm like, wait, listen, it's
• 21:08
  a roller coaster. And then, you know, a couple
• 21:10
  days later she would do the same thing, right?
• 21:12
  Like I couldn't console her and then mom console her.
• 21:14
  And then it worked and she felt grateful.
• 21:17
  But then I'm like, kind of like, well, hold on.
• 21:19
  If you didn't need to take her, I, I needed a few more minutes
• 21:22
  and I would have calmed her down.
• 21:24
  So then I started feeling that. So then it was like these little
• 21:28
  tiffs here and there and it just, you know, I'm telling you
• 21:30
  for a year and a half, I mean, every four or five days we would
• 21:33
  get in these little 2 minute little arguments and it was
• 21:38
  about a bunch of different stuff, you know, whether it was
• 21:40
  what are we going to eat or is she going to cook?
• 21:42
  Am I going to cook? Like who's putting who down?
• 21:45
  We weren't getting sleep. So that was a nightmare.
• 21:47
  It was just a it was a very rough time and not that we were
• 21:52
  ever on the brink of it, but I could tell you from experience
• 21:55
  now I know exactly how people get divorced with kids.
• 21:59
  Yeah. Like that's the reason why it's,
• 22:02
  it's resentment, It's, it's, it's the, the lack of XYZ.
• 22:09
  Maybe one partner's not doing something else than the other
• 22:11
  partner should. And maybe you're not listening.
• 22:13
  Maybe you're talking too much. Like all these things while
• 22:16
  you're not getting sleep, while you're not eating, while you're
• 22:19
  not taking care of your mental and physical health, all these
• 22:22
  factors while you're also trying to like raise this little human
• 22:25
  correctly. And you're holding in your
• 22:28
  emotion, right, because you don't want to scream down from
• 22:29
  the baby. So then maybe you hold things in
• 22:32
  that normally you would talk about, but now you don't have
• 22:34
  the time to talk about it because by the time the kid goes
• 22:36
  down, now you're you're exhausted.
• 22:38
  You don't want to talk to your partner, you don't want to have
• 22:40
  sex anymore. Like now I get it now.
• 22:43
  And also buy hi, by the way, shit's expensive.
• 22:45
  So now you're stressed about money.
• 22:47
  So it's like these, I get it, man.
• 22:49
  And I'm a kid of divorce. So I know exactly why these guys
• 22:53
  got divorced. Not that they're right for each
• 22:55
  other. They hate each other.
• 22:56
  So it worked out well. But I think overall, I think me
• 23:00
  being bored, not that it was, it was bad on them, but you know, I
• 23:03
  can, I can understand it now. I get it.
• 23:06
  I know divorce, but like I was born in 1970 and I think life
• 23:10
  was a lot different and same thing I'm I am relieved they got
• 23:14
  divorced. That would have been awful.
• 23:15
  But then I got divorced. So the things like we're never,
• 23:18
  this is never going to happen this and then it does happen in
• 23:23
  different circumstances. And I have like a lot of
• 23:26
  retrospect now. But you know, kids don't make
• 23:31
  any situation easier. They make every situation more
• 23:34
  challenging, not maliciously intentionally of.
• 23:38
  Course. Now you said your wife wanted to
• 23:40
  be a stay at home mom. Did she get to?
• 23:43
  Was she able to do that? OK, wow.
• 23:48
  Well, good news, bad news. So bad news No for the 1st 2 1/2
• 23:53
  years because we luckily both work from home, but she's been
• 23:57
  with a great company for almost 10 years benefits, you know, 4 O
• 24:01
  1K all that. But then just last week she got
• 24:04
  laid off from that company. So she is now a stay at home mom
• 24:09
  yeah, she is now staying. So you know, unfortunately we're
• 24:12
  still looking for a new gig for her.
• 24:15
  I mean, the long term plan is to have her be a stay at home mom,
• 24:18
  obviously, but I don't know. I mean, she she wants it me
• 24:23
  again, I look at everything like a business.
• 24:24
  Regretfully, it's just unintentional.
• 24:26
  It's I, I. Don't know if that's
• 24:28
  regretfully. I think it's unecutionally but
• 24:30
  also. Probably an emotional answer.
• 24:33
  I mean I I like logic so I think calendars and structure makes
• 24:37
  sense. Yeah.
• 24:40
  It can be a little lacking in emotion, but it gets everything
• 24:43
  done without with the least amount of stress.
• 24:45
  So anyway, sticking. Up.
• 24:46
  No, thank. Thank you for that.
• 24:48
  I appreciate it. I needed to hear it.
• 24:49
  Yeah 'cause, you know, even at this moment, obviously I'm
• 24:51
  giving her a space and we're figuring out game plans and I'm
• 24:54
  trying to do what I can to help, but I'm also just giving her a
• 24:56
  space and let her enjoy this time.
• 24:59
  But I'm also like one of the, one of the strongest believers
• 25:02
  that there's a couple things that allow us to be human and
• 25:07
  that is relationships and work, whatever that means to you.
• 25:13
  And I don't mean work in the sense of work, 9:00 to 5:00 for
• 25:16
  a great corporation and four O 1K and all that.
• 25:18
  I just mean like work, like doing something you love.
• 25:20
  So maybe that's just painting and then selling your paintings
• 25:24
  on Etsy. That's work.
• 25:26
  But at least it's your passion and you like doing it.
• 25:28
  But there's purpose to that. And I, I think the argument
• 25:31
  could be said, well-being a mother is purpose 100%.
• 25:34
  But for how long? You know, what happened when
• 25:36
  they're 15 or 18 and then they move out.
• 25:39
  Now what do you have purpose? Are you happy with what you're
• 25:42
  doing 9 to 5 when you don't have a kid in the house?
• 25:44
  So I think having some sort of structure and idea of what you
• 25:47
  want to do and she's not there yet, which is unfortunate, but
• 25:50
  she'll get there. But I think having a purpose and
• 25:54
  something to do with work is very beneficial.
• 25:57
  And we were very lucky to where we both work from home.
• 25:59
  So she was able to, she was able to, you know, obviously work
• 26:04
  from a certain amount of time and then she would take the kid
• 26:07
  and then I would take her, you know, vice versa.
• 26:10
  So we kind of had like shifts, which was amazing.
• 26:12
  So we were both kind of like stay at home parents, but we at
• 26:15
  least both made money and now we have now we have less salary.
• 26:20
  So then it's like, OK, she could be a stay at home mom and I
• 26:23
  could probably afford to take care of everything.
• 26:26
  But then I always go back to like what I saw being a kid, a
• 26:29
  divorce. My dad worked three jobs.
• 26:31
  My mom didn't work. She worked occasionally.
• 26:34
  There was little things she did on the side, like babysitting
• 26:36
  and, you know, bartending and stuff like that.
• 26:38
  But there's a resentment there, I think, you know, and I like to
• 26:43
  always tell myself I'm stronger than that.
• 26:46
  I'm not going to. But if she's spending every
• 26:48
  moment with the kid and I'm working even harder to make sure
• 26:51
  we're making money, will I resent her?
• 26:55
  Me. And I like to think I'm not
• 26:56
  going to. But listen, if I'm working
• 26:58
  really, really hard and I'm stressed out about money and
• 27:00
  she's buying Starbucks every week, is our relationship going
• 27:04
  to be the best? Probably not.
• 27:06
  So I, I told her, I think the goal is not for her to find
• 27:09
  something that pays the bills or for just find a little
• 27:12
  something. Give me 1020 hours a week.
• 27:14
  Maybe it's a part time gig, something you like to do that
• 27:17
  you're just making a little dough, a little just so you have
• 27:19
  some purpose and structure, you know, wake up every day and get
• 27:22
  dressed, throw your makeup on, do something from home.
• 27:24
  Maybe you're a insurance adjuster and you're talking.
• 27:27
  Maybe you're doing customer service virtually.
• 27:29
  You're still home, you still have a shift and you're still
• 27:32
  having fun and, and doing your work, but also you can clock out
• 27:34
  and hang out with the kid. But I think that's where we're
• 27:37
  landing now because we just need a little money to help pay for
• 27:40
  some insurance, just a little dough to get some some
• 27:43
  flexibility. So.
• 27:46
  Yeah, I I mean, again, very insightful because I think one
• 27:50
  thing that happens to stay at home.
• 27:51
  I was a stay home mom for 12 years, but I did stuff and I
• 27:55
  think what happens sometimes when you stay at home is your
• 27:58
  entire identity becomes your children.
• 28:01
  And I don't think that's healthy because one, that's why it like
• 28:05
  we're almost empty nesters. We're psyched.
• 28:08
  We're psyched. Like we haven't been alone since
• 28:12
  we were 21, you know? And we haven't.
• 28:15
  I mean, I don't think you should be so psyched to do a crappy
• 28:18
  job, but I don't think you should be crying in your coffee
• 28:22
  either. Because if you have an identity
• 28:24
  outside of your children, something that gives you purpose
• 28:27
  that you love, you don't feel that way.
• 28:29
  You feel a sadness. That childhood went by so fast,
• 28:34
  even if you cherished it, that it's over that, but you feel
• 28:37
  like it's a new phase in your life instead of feeling like
• 28:40
  it's devastating and you have nothing to live for.
• 28:42
  And so very insightful on the front end for you to be like,
• 28:46
  no, something gives you purpose. And also I think you know
• 28:49
  people, it feels like you're in this dark cave alone with your
• 28:53
  kids, losing your frickin mind, right?
• 28:56
  It's all it can not all stay at home moms are like this.
• 28:59
  It can be exactly what they want and they love it and the dad
• 29:01
  loves it. The whole thing, which I had for
• 29:03
  years, but I also didn't lose my identity to my kids.
• 29:07
  I also had purples and other things going on.
• 29:09
  So that's I think that's really important and it feels good.
• 29:12
  I felt like I had to ask my husband permission to get
• 29:16
  Starbucks once a week. Yeah, let me tell you how
• 29:19
  terrible that is in a relationship.
• 29:22
  Yeah, no more Target and Starbucks runs, that's for sure.
• 29:25
  Yeah, I'm, you know, permission for an allowance.
• 29:28
  Right, totally. And you know, I, I think again,
• 29:30
  that that also goes back to she understands this now, but like,
• 29:33
  the only thing I want to do is I want to be a stay at home dad.
• 29:36
  And you know, I don't want to work more so she doesn't have to
• 29:40
  work and she understands that. And that's the, the Ying and
• 29:44
  Yang I think we have because I, I saw what my dad went through.
• 29:47
  You know, I don't want to work for the next 20 years and miss,
• 29:51
  you know, my kids little milestones.
• 29:53
  And then the mom gets to see it all as well.
• 29:55
  So I think, and then I think it's what's lacking in society
• 29:58
  where if we don't have present fathers, now you have this thing
• 30:03
  where dads maybe do grow up and the kids grow up and they're 18
• 30:07
  years old. And now the dad and the mom
• 30:10
  don't really agree because the dad's been working his butt off
• 30:12
  the whole time. And during that 18 years, the
• 30:14
  relationship between mom, dad and kids, it's just shattered.
• 30:18
  And not everybody can handle it because it's tough.
• 30:20
  And I think a lot of dads out there don't want to work three
• 30:23
  jobs and work their butt off. They want to be present fathers.
• 30:26
  But there's this like, stigma of what we've been taught the last
• 30:30
  few decades of dads need to work their ass off.
• 30:32
  They need to be the provider XYZ.
• 30:35
  And I think there's a little bit of truth to that.
• 30:36
  But also I think both can be true.
• 30:37
  I think now we're in a beautiful time where you can make money at
• 30:41
  home. You might not have a Rolls Royce
• 30:43
  or a Ferrari, but you know, hey, listen, you can you can make a
• 30:46
  good living at home. Both you and you could share
• 30:49
  responsibilities, have a nice little income.
• 30:51
  And, you know, again, will you be?
• 30:54
  Yeah, exactly. Will you be able to buy the
• 30:55
  Starbucks every week? Probably not, but who cares?
• 30:57
  I mean, at least you're both home and you're present with
• 30:59
  your kids. And I think that's where we got
• 31:01
  to shift our mindset a little bit.
• 31:03
  I think one of the you've said a couple different things about
• 31:06
  like from the margaritas on the beach to the Starbucks every
• 31:08
  week. It's shifting your parties too
• 31:11
  totally you. It's not.
• 31:12
  I remember one one another guest was like, we used to go on all
• 31:16
  these big vacations to Italy, to Rome, to skiing.
• 31:19
  Now we go to California like 7 hours away to grandparents.
• 31:24
  That's not in the past. That is not a vacation.
• 31:26
  Now we look forward to it. That's what that's how we want
• 31:30
  to spend our vacations. No, we couldn't afford the other
• 31:33
  ones with our kids and what we really want them either.
• 31:37
  And so it's a, if you had asked your Margarita self, you would
• 31:41
  have been like never. That's never happening.
• 31:43
  But when you get there and you view it through that
• 31:45
  perspective, it makes sense. Tell me about you.
• 31:49
  I love this too because again, I think it's you being
• 31:52
  introspective or maybe that's not the right word, but I'm
• 31:55
  going to stick with it. You said four years ago, this is
• 32:00
  pre pregnancy. You started your own business
• 32:03
  and went to working at home so that you could be a present
• 32:06
  father before your wife got pregnant.
• 32:08
  So I want to dive into what how you did that you were able to
• 32:15
  switch over earning and income. I get the why.
• 32:17
  I think it's all the other things because I've worked on,
• 32:20
  I've worked from home for like a decade.
• 32:22
  So I get it. Right on.
• 32:24
  Yeah, No, I think I've always kind of had like an
• 32:26
  entrepreneurship mentality, I think.
• 32:27
  So I've always that was the end all be all.
• 32:30
  It was just a question of how I was going to do it.
• 32:32
  And when I was working for a corporation, I worked for a
• 32:34
  couple big Fortune 500 companies like Coca-Cola, Monster Energy,
• 32:40
  There was this rising company called Focus, which was in the,
• 32:42
  the beverage category as well. And all these companies I worked
• 32:45
  for and got promoted and climbed the corporate ladder.
• 32:48
  Monster Energy specifically, I was up in the marketing
• 32:50
  department, you know, a, a couple people down from like the
• 32:53
  CMO and the big boys of marketing.
• 32:56
  And I really enjoyed and I loved it was like a dream job.
• 32:58
  And unfortunately, we didn't really see eye to eye with what
• 33:03
  I was doing on my spare time. See on my spare time, even when
• 33:06
  I was employed with them on the weekends, we would have events
• 33:09
  that I'd be in charge of organizing and kind of curating
• 33:12
  and managing athletes and contracts and all this type of
• 33:15
  stuff. But I would also go and film
• 33:18
  like all my free time, those athletes, those events.
• 33:21
  And I just had a really good time editing videos.
• 33:23
  And I would, I would send it to my boss and be like, hey, man,
• 33:26
  look at this. I put it together, the bike, OK.
• 33:31
  And I'm like, all right, fuck you, whatever.
• 33:33
  I'll just do it all My, I'll do it on my own.
• 33:35
  So I ended up just doing stuff on my own and posting it to my
• 33:37
  own YouTube channel. And I really just enjoyed the
• 33:40
  whole process of like filming and editing and, you know, not
• 33:43
  really getting the likes or the follows from it.
• 33:45
  But just like, I don't know, you watch something you created and
• 33:49
  it's like, it's kind of a cool feeling.
• 33:52
  And then you Fast forward a few years later when I kept moving
• 33:55
  up the corporate ladder, then eventually I told us, Hey,
• 33:57
  listen, we need you to be 100% into Monster and OK, what do you
• 34:03
  mean? Well, we, we saw that you have
• 34:05
  this podcast and you're talking about another beverage.
• 34:09
  And I go, well, yeah, but it's not like a energy drink.
• 34:11
  It was a a buddy of mine owned a tea company, like tea bag
• 34:15
  company. And I just talked about it on my
• 34:18
  show. Well, that's a no, no, you can't
• 34:22
  do that on the weekends, bucko. I go, that's interesting.
• 34:26
  So laid me off for that 10 years in the company.
• 34:30
  And so that kind of hurt and I was like, all right, well,
• 34:33
  whatever. That was my first taste of like,
• 34:35
  that was the first time I've gotten laid off.
• 34:36
  I was in my 30s and that was my first taste of like corporate.
• 34:41
  They just think you like a number, but hey, all is good.
• 34:44
  I still had my little content thing I was doing on the side.
• 34:47
  I was making videos and making a little bit of money here and
• 34:49
  there. So I kept doing that.
• 34:50
  But then I got a great job offer from a company called Focus, and
• 34:52
  it was a startup beverage company and they knew my
• 34:56
  experience at Monster and Coke. And they immediately gave me the
• 34:59
  job. Twice as much money as Monster.
• 35:02
  So I was like, oh, hello, here we go.
• 35:04
  So I'm making a quarter $1,000,000 a year and I'm
• 35:06
  working right below the owner and I'm like, this is beautiful.
• 35:09
  I'm there for over a year and the whole company shuts down,
• 35:13
  hemorrhaging money the whole time.
• 35:14
  Didn't even know filed for bankruptcy.
• 35:16
  OK, now we got a curveball because now this, this is the,
• 35:20
  our IVF process, how we were starting.
• 35:22
  So we were relying on all that income coming in and I got laid
• 35:26
  off immediately there. And then again, I'm, I won't go
• 35:29
  through the whole story, but the literally weeks after that we're
• 35:35
  going through this process and I found out I have a tumor in my
• 35:38
  lung. So I ended up having to get the,
• 35:43
  the, the right lobe or excuse me, the lower lobe of my right
• 35:47
  lung, the whole thing removed. So I have about 1/3 of my right
• 35:50
  lung removed still. It doesn't grow back, if
• 35:53
  anybody's curious. So, so that shit's gone.
• 35:56
  So that happened. And as I was going through the
• 35:59
  surgery and deal with all that, the recovery was gnarly.
• 36:01
  I was stuck in the hospital. They were still kind of strict
• 36:04
  with COVID about having visitors.
• 36:05
  So my wife wasn't even allowed to come and and see me and stay
• 36:07
  with me. But then the last day I was in
• 36:11
  the hospital, my wife's father passed away.
• 36:14
  Oh my. Gosh.
• 36:17
  So I get out of the hospital, of course, I, I rush home.
• 36:19
  My wife was in, in tears because my dad picked me up.
• 36:22
  She didn't obviously even want to come to the hospital and I
• 36:24
  couldn't even hug my wife because of my, I have my entire
• 36:27
  right side is stitched up and bleeding.
• 36:30
  So that was like right there. That was like, you know, and
• 36:34
  again, we're a year in now of IVF negative pregnancy test.
• 36:37
  So it's like all that coupled with her father and coupled with
• 36:40
  this lung surgery and it's like everything is against us.
• 36:43
  And that again, I think is just, that's what pushed me over the
• 36:46
  edge is after I healed, after I, I comforted my wife and we were
• 36:49
  able to spend some time together.
• 36:50
  Thankfully, we're good at saving.
• 36:52
  So we were fine. But it took me about six months
• 36:54
  to figure out a business plan to start my own business.
• 36:56
  And that's when I just went all in with a content agency because
• 36:59
  I'm like, there's no freaking way that this is going to happen
• 37:01
  again. You know, I don't care how good
• 37:03
  the company is, I'm going all in on myself and, and that's what
• 37:08
  happened. So still to the day, I had the
• 37:09
  content agency that I started where I had $0.00 in the bank.
• 37:12
  And now year over year, we're making $100,000 a year where I,
• 37:16
  I work with brands to help them elevate their content.
• 37:19
  I manage social media, I create videos for brands, I do podcast
• 37:23
  coaching. I have my own podcast that I, I
• 37:25
  monetize. And yeah, I'm just doing a
• 37:27
  plethora of different things in the content space and it's just
• 37:31
  been, it's been awesome and I'm very grateful.
• 37:34
  And yeah, it's, it's been a wild journey, but everything happens
• 37:37
  for a reason, I feel like. I am so proud of you.
• 37:40
  Like I am just, that is what? A what?
• 37:43
  Oh my gosh. So my grandmother, when she was
• 37:45
  alive, had lung cancer and they had to remove a lobe.
• 37:47
  So I remember vividly that surgery and recovery and holy
• 37:53
  cow, Tony. Yeah, it sucks.
• 37:56
  Yeah. It's not cool scars from it
• 37:57
  though. But it sucks.
• 38:00
  I mean, it was gnarly. It was gnarly.
• 38:03
  So you're like, yeah. And I had a tumor and I had part
• 38:06
  of my lung removed, but I'm like, no, I was there what not
• 38:10
  to, but like, I was there when that surgery happened.
• 38:12
  And holy cow, that's awful. Yeah, the worst part of it was
• 38:17
  they, I don't know if you if it happened to her, but they had to
• 38:20
  have the tube for. Recovery.
• 38:22
  Yep. The worst because every time you
• 38:25
  talk the tube moves in your lungs.
• 38:27
  It's just I get chills. I'm I literally have chills just
• 38:30
  thinking. Gross, gross, gross, gross.
• 38:35
  So I I want you to talk about I want to end on human dad right
• 38:41
  now. So you've done all of these
• 38:42
  things, but really, I think for dads that are already dads or
• 38:48
  dads, people that are becoming dads and you don't realize it's
• 38:51
  going to hit you till it hits you.
• 38:53
  Even with different experiencing experiences, I think leveling up
• 38:57
  as a dad generally needs to be more intentional.
• 39:02
  And so I want you to, I want to end the podcast on Human Dad.
• 39:07
  Right on. No, thanks for that.
• 39:08
  Yeah, I mean, that's kind of like if you, if you're, if
• 39:13
  you're getting anything from my my rant, it's that I'm, I am
• 39:16
  kind of, I am a little bit stoic and I always have been.
• 39:19
  And I've always had kind of had the attitude of, you know, we're
• 39:23
  all human. And you know, if, if some guy
• 39:25
  cuts me off, I'm the type of person and be like, he probably
• 39:28
  has to take a dump. You know, it's all good.
• 39:30
  Like this guy, he's just human. He's just like me.
• 39:33
  He's no better, he's no worse. Let's just take it easy.
• 39:36
  So I've always kind of had that mentality.
• 39:38
  Even my podcast that I've started six years ago is called
• 39:41
  Humanity and hashtags. So I've always kind of had this
• 39:43
  like human element to my content, to my personality.
• 39:47
  And when I started to figure out how can I add on to what I'm
• 39:50
  already doing but make it dad centric, it was I wanted an
• 39:55
  apparel brand that wasn't like the rest of the apparel brands.
• 39:57
  And there's some great apparel brands out there specifically
• 39:59
  for dads, but all of them, I mean, you can Google it, you can
• 40:02
  say just dad hat and all of them are the same.
• 40:05
  The the fonts are the same on the hats.
• 40:07
  They're all, it's, it's almost confusing, like is this all one
• 40:11
  company? But it's like 6 different
• 40:12
  companies that all have the same logo and the same font.
• 40:15
  And I'm like, let's switch it up.
• 40:17
  Let's let's be the liquid death of dad apparel.
• 40:20
  You know, like let's, let's be the disruptor.
• 40:23
  And more specifically make really good high quality
• 40:26
  products that dads like to wear. Number one.
• 40:29
  But #2 from a content standpoint, how can we make this
• 40:33
  like relatable where dads watch him be like, that happened to me
• 40:37
  or I'm thinking that. And I think that's what's
• 40:40
  missing in the dad apparel space where there's not a lot of
• 40:43
  brands talking about the truth and the chaotic mess of being a
• 40:46
  father and you know, the the imperfect situations that you
• 40:51
  get into and just kind of being yourself, not perfect.
• 40:55
  So that's exactly how human dad came about where it, we're human
• 40:59
  first dad always. So that way, hopefully when you
• 41:02
  wear our swag and you watch our content, you think to yourself,
• 41:06
  listen, I am a dad but I'm a human 1st and I could just take
• 41:09
  a breather and we're all doing our best.
• 41:12
  You don't have to be perfect. It's just about showing up.
• 41:14
  So that's what happened. Tony, thank you so much.
• 41:18
  You have been such a blast. What a pleasure.
• 41:20
  Thank you. Thanks, Jennifer.
• 41:21
  I appreciate you. Thank you.