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Legally Brunette: End of the Month Recap - Lori Hacking, Christa Pike & Ian Diaz · Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hi, guys. Welcome to Legally Brunette. I'll be your host today,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Emily Simpson. And I'm sorry.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: Shane.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: You have to have an and or a when.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: You always forget.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: I don't always forget. All right. We are going to
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: do today an end of the month recap where we're
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: just going to go through and talk a little bit
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: about all the cases that we recorded on this month.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: First of all, we're going to talk about the story
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: of that. This is a toxic love story, which was
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Ian Diaz and Angela Diaz and Michelle Hadley. Remember, let
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: me jog your memory. First of all, we recorded this
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: one in the Bahamas. Second of all, he was the
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Disney adult. Does that ring a bell now? No.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Disney adult?
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Yes. Remember, he was the Disney adult. He was obsessed
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: with Disney, and then they bought the condo right across
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: from Disney so they could see the fireworks.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: All right. So Ian Diaz was the U.S. deputy marshal
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: who conspired with his wife, Angela, to fabricate an entire
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: stalking campaign framing his innocent ex-wife, Michelle Hadley. Do you
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: remember Michelle spent three months in jail for crimes she
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: never committed? And remember, when I watched the documentary, I
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: couldn't figure out why she was in jail and why
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: she didn't get out on bond. And then I did
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: some further research and it was, remember her parents said
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: to her, we only have so much money.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: So we can- And you stay in jail. Right. Or
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: you can get out and you can use a.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: A public defender or whatever. And she said, I'm going
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: to stay in jail and you hire an attorney. Remember
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: they hired an amazing attorney who did all that research,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: all that forensic and digital research to put everything together
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: to prove that he was actually the one behind the
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: cyber stalking.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Angela lied to her ex-boyfriend about having cancer. Do you
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: remember that part? She was the... She was the new wife.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: And they lived in the condo. And I really believe
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: this whole motive came down to they just didn't want
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: to have to sell the condo. Yeah. They just wanted
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: to stay there and live there.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Didn't she put up the money, the deposit, too?
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: She did. But then she also got a court order
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: that said if it didn't sell by a certain point
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: or if they didn't figure it out by a certain point,
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: I believe they had to sell it and split the
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: proceeds or something like that. But I don't think there
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: really was any equity in it. I don't think he
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: wanted to move. So instead of moving, I believe he
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: came up with this plan of cyber stalking. Remember he started.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: Sending the emails? That sounds about right.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: And the woman that he was married to, Angela, had
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: lied to her ex-boyfriend about having cancer and lied about
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: being pregnant with Ian's twins and lied about having a
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: job and lied about being an attorney. This is so stressful.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: These people living these lives.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: It seems like it'd be simpler just to go to
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: work and go home and watch a movie and then
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: go to bed.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Or just to sell the condo and move on. Yeah.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: She also lied about Michelle Hadley coming to her apartment
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: and assaulting her. I don't know if you remember, but
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: they posted the fake Craigslist ads asking for someone to
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: come and R-A-P-E her.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: They said it was like a fantasy. Right.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: But they were the ones that were actually posting it.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: They said Michelle was posting it.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: But they make it like it's consensual so this person
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: can attack her. Right.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: I'm still confused how two cons actually end up married
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: to each other and then end up trying to con Michelle.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: Did Ian know that Angela was such a liar that
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: she had conned people about having cancer, that she was
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: lying to him currently about... Remember she told him she
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: was pregnant with twins?
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Did he believe that? Was the conner being conned? You
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: know what I mean?
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Like he's trying to con Michelle.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: But he's married to Angela and Angela's conning him.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Do these people have jobs? Like do they go to
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: work and then forget about all these things and then
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: actually like run the transaction or complete the email?
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a U.S. Deputy Marshal, but not anymore. So
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: he was actually sentenced. He was found guilty of, I
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: don't know, like cyberstalking or something.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: It's always the cyberstalking.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: All right, let's move on to another case we did.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: This was David Vandermeer, and he was a former Las
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Vegas youth pastor. We've done some pastors this month.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Is this the Angels Landing guy?
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, whose wife Bernadette had died in 2006 from a
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: fall at Angels Landing in Zion National Park. It was
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: ruled an accident at the time. However, nearly 20 years later,
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: authorities reopened the case and charged him with her murder,
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: believing that he had pushed her. Before he could appear
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: in court, Vandermeer died by suicide in jail. He had
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: lived lavishly off of her $ 600, 000 insurance policy. Remember we
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: talked about this when we did the case that I
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: was confused that the insurance company paid out so quickly.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Usually when there's suspicious circumstances
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: or someone takes out a policy, like right before she
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: fell off of Angel's Landing, my thought was that the
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: insurance companies usually are like, hold up, we're not going
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: to pay out until... There's more investigation.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's their money. You'd think they want to
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: get out of it.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: But they paid pretty quickly because he was spending that
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: $ 600, 000 insurance policy like that.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: It goes to show you I think insurance companies make
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: a lot of money.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: What, that they just paid $ 600, 000 and they just forgot
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: about it?
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, then I get a little fender bender and all
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: of a sudden they're like making a big deal about it. Right.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: Remember that one time you hit my car?
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: Which time? I feel like there's no more than one.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: The last time.
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: The last time.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: The last time.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. All right. So another case we talked about
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: was the murder of Lori Hacking. You liked this case.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: This was the case that you liked.
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: It's not like I like the case. You mean like
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: this is the kind of murder I like?
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: No, this is terrible. No, I'm talking about this was
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: your suggestion, your recommendation. You were familiar with this case.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: This was Mark Hacking.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: I respect people that pretend to go to medical school.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: You do. You respect the effort it took to pretend.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: I didn't even pretend to go to medical school. This
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: guy did. He's accomplished something more in the medical field
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: than I have.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: He has. Yes. In 2004, Mark Hacking shot his pregnant wife, Lori,
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: while she slept, then dumped her body after she was
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: about to discover that he'd fabricated his entire academic and
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: medical school career. He pleaded guilty and was paroled in 2017.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: He pretended to graduate from the University of Utah.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: First, yes.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: And then he pretended to apply to medical schools. And
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: then he pretended that he got accepted to a medical school.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: And then she calls the medical school, which was, I think,
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: in South Carolina. All roads lead to South Carolina.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: No, it was North Carolina.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: North Carolina.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Because it was Chapel Hill.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: And then she finds out, you know, because she's just
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: trying to figure out, like, housing arrangements and all these
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: regular things that she should be doing. And that's good
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: for her. And then come to find that he never
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: applied and all that stuff, never even graduated. Like, he
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: was on record for nothing.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: So then she confronts him about it. And then he
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: says it's a technical error. And then I think she
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: found out from University of Utah that he never even
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: graduated from there. So then she goes to him, backed
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: him for that. And then I think that's the night.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: Because she says, no, we're going to leave. He says,
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: let's go to the CVS and talk it out. So
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: they walk to the store.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: Get a candy bar.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: Then they come back and that's when he kills her
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: because then he went, I think he went back to
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: the store without her.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: And he was alone. Yeah.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: And then, and they bought a new mattress and all
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: that stuff.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: I was going to say, my takeaway from this case
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: was after you shoot your wife in the head, don't
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: go buy a new mattress while the police are looking
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: for her body. Right. Probably not smart. Also, we talked
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: about the scorned daughter, the case of Jennifer Pan. Jennifer
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Pan had spent years lying to her strict parents about
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: her education and career. It seems to be a theme
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: this month with lying about education and career. And hid
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: a boyfriend from them that they had hated. When they
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: discovered the truth in 2010, they cut her off and
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: she hired hitmen to kill both of her parents. Her
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: mother died. Her father survived. And Jennifer was convicted of
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: first-degree murder and sentenced to life in prison. Jennifer Pan
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: pleaded guilty to manslaughter in 2026 and an agreed statement
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: of facts says that while she did plot to kill
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: her father, she did not intend to kill her mother.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: I guess that's how she got it down to manslaughter
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: from murder was just the intent that she didn't intend
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: because her mother died, but the intent wasn't to kill
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: her mother. They shot both of them.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: They hit men. I know. That's lame because... I mean,
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: isn't it foreseeable that other people might die when you
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: arrange for someone to be shot and killed?
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: When you leave the front door open and you hire
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: hitmen to come into your house and kill your father?
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's foreseeable. Therefore, she should be fully responsible. Right.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: And first of all, I don't think for one second
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: that she hired hitmen to come into the house and
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: only kill her father. There's no way. Because her mother
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: would be a witness.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: Right. So.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: she clearly the plan was to to take out both
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: of her parents right and she wanted free from them
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: she wanted financial freedom from them she wanted to be
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: able to date the boyfriend she wanted to do all
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: the things also we talked about the texas trophy wife
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: celeste beard johnson So Celeste Beard Johnson married wealthy Texas
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: TV executive Stephen Beard and then convinced her lesbian lover,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Tracy Tarleton, to shoot him while he was asleep in 1999.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: I felt sorry for Stephen Beard. He seemed like a nice,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: jolly man to me. He was like a self-made man.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: Remember he bought like a TV station and made it successful.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: He had been married to the same woman. wife for
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: like 45 years or something and then and he had
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: adult children and then she died of cancer right.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: And then he he just wanted companionship and he got
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: taken advantage of yeah.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: He meets celeste and we talked about how she probably
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: most likely worked at that um what am i trying
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: to say where do fancy people go country club it
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: was like a fancy country club she was a waitress
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: or something and well i don't.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: Know where fancy people go yes in the wrong person.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: We're clearly not fancy um i couldn't even think of country.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: Club yeah you know um what would happen if like
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: Celeste met someone like John Paul from The Pastor?
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's kind of what happened with the.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: I want those worlds to collide.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: You want John Paul and Celeste to meet each other?
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: I want Celeste to attend the Solid Rock Mercy List,
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: whatever place that he set up. That would be good TV.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: That would be a good reality show.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Let those two people have at it.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: We talked about this in the episode, but I watched
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: a recent interview with Celeste and she was awful. Like
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: just a horrible person. She has no relationship with her
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: daughters anymore. Remember they testified against.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: Her in court.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Zero accountability, nasty, rude. She flipped the journalist off when
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: he was asking her questions. I mean, she was just... Awful.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Just a peach, huh?
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she was. And do you remember, he did not die.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: The husband did not die initially from the gunshot wounds.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: He died from complications later. And we were talking about
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: how it's very difficult to prove that causal effect, whether
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: it's murder or not, because he died from complications of
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: being shot later. Anyway, the woman that shot him, Tracy,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: is actually out now. She's not in prison anymore.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: Second chance at life.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, she... Well, she showed a lot of remorse.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: And I think that Celeste was really the mastermind behind
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: it and had convinced her that she was being abused.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Oh, she was the lesbian lover, right? Yes. That's right.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: And she shot him.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Remember, she snuck into the house.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: And she believed all of Celeste's stories about the living
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: conditions and all that.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: She got duped.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Also, we talked about the only woman on Tennessee's death row,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Krista Pike. So in 1995, Krista Pike, who was 18,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: lured a fellow student named Colleen Slimmer into the woods
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: near a Job Corps campus in Knoxville, Tennessee. Motivated by
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: jealousy over a boyfriend, Krista had two accomplices, and she
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: tortured and beat Colleen to death, carved a pentagram onto
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: her chest, and then Krista, do you remember what she kept?
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: Oh, the skull?
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she kept a piece of her skull as a trophy.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: I wonder if she beat her to get the piece
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: of skull.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: She had to. She had to bash her.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: No, but I meant like if she was trying it.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Oh, you mean with that intent? Yeah.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: Or if it was just like, you know, by chance.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Maybe. She was convicted and sentenced to death, making her
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Tennessee's only woman currently on death row. Her execution date,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: I think, is September 30th of this year. And that's
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: why we wanted to talk about the Krista Pike case
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: to see if she'll actually be executed today. She's been
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: using a lot of delay tactics as far as medical
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: excuses about how, like.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't you?
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I would. Right. Also, remember we also talked about
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: before how... I was talking about how this law journal
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: wrote about how she was convicted when she was 18
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: and how the brain doesn't form until you're really 24,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: so she shouldn't be on death row because she was
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: so young.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but then everyone should be given that leniency.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but my point was... Mm-hmm. she tried to kill
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: a woman after that, and then she also seduced the
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: security guard. So I'm saying she has a long, it's
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: not just that one act. She has a long history
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: of violence. Recently, a Tennessee Supreme Court investigator concluded that
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: Krista Pike failed to prove the state's execution method would
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: violate her constitutional rights, and her attorneys had argued her
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: health conditions put her at risk of an inhumane death.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: You know, it's hard to talk about an inhumane death
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: when you know that Krista Pike beat that girl to death,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: tortured her, carved a pentagram into her chest, and then
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: beat her skull so badly that she broke a piece
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: of her skull off and then kept it as a
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: trophy and showed it to people. But then now we
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: have to have conversations about whether her death is humane
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: or not. I guess that's because we have to remain
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: a civilized society today. And if we're going to put
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: people to death, we have to do it.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: Does that disappoint you?
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Well, it does with someone like Krista Pike. I mean,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: sometimes I feel like people like that should just not
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: be living amongst us.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: An eye for an eye, right?
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: Right. Kevin Harper. We met with Kevin Harper. He was
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: wrongfully convicted of killing his six-month-old son.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: I liked Kevin Harper.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: I know. Shane really enjoyed our interview with Kevin Harper.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: We actually did that interview in person in the iHeartRadio studio.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: I like to do those cases in person if we can.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: I always feel like it's just more intimate. You can
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: really have more of a conversation. Kevin Harper was convicted
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: of killing his six-month-old son based on evidence of shaken
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: baby syndrome.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: Based on junk science of baby shaking syndrome.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Which basically now is not recognized as scientific conclusive evidence.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: It's a theory that was presented in the 70s.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: After 13 years in prison, the Northern California Innocence Project
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: secured his release in 2022 as the science behind shaken
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: baby syndrome diagnosis has come into question. Kevin had always
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: maintained his innocence throughout his trial and prison sentence, and
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: he received his associate's degree and made himself a model prisoner.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: The Innocence Project managed to free Kevin, but he wasn't
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: officially pronounced innocent because they didn't want to risk going
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: through another trial. That was an interesting conversation you had
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: with him where you were talking about on one hand, right?
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: You have that dilemma where you have to just admit
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: to something in order to be free, right?
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: It had come up because Terrell Swift, if I remember correctly,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: that person had to go to these group meetings while
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: they were out of prison and they had to admit
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: and like be remorseful and all this stuff. And he
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: was like, I didn't do it. And then he had
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: the threat of, well, then you're going to have to
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: go back to jail.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: That was a condition of parole. Yeah. Yeah.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: It's kind of sad that, you know, well, and I
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: understand if someone says, well, I can't admit it. Like
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: I'll go to jail and kind of stand my ground.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: Or like Kevin Harper, who said, whose family said, we
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: want you out.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Just get out.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: And his grandma said, I want you out before I die.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: Like we know you didn't do it. Right. So who cares?
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: And I committed him on that choice because it's like,
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: I could sit here and be retried and basically possibly
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: stay in jail forever again. Or I can get out
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: with certainty right now and be with my family and
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: start a new life. Yeah. I would have chosen the
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: latter too.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: Understandably tough.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Right. And, um, What an inspiration, though, because he really
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: moved on and made such a great life.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: He's got a career. He's in irrigation. He's moving up,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: he said. He was very proud. He's got a fiance.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: She has children, I think.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: And he has a daughter. Yeah.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: He has a daughter who he said has always been
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: with him and will never believe anything but that he's
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: a great father. So he's like, that's not an issue
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: with me and her. Yeah.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: And I think he was working on further certificates as
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: far as education, as far as within that, the water.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. There was like stage three that he wanted to
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: work on. Right.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: So that was, if you haven't listened to that, that's
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: such a compelling and interesting and compassion. I don't know.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: It's just all.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: He even goes as far as saying, if I didn't
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: go to jail the way I did, I wouldn't have
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: the job I have today. Yeah. Because he met someone
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: and met someone and met someone. Right. Right.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: All right. Well, that is the end of month recap.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: These are all the cases that we talked about. If
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: you didn't have the opportunity to listen to these episodes,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: I would suggest going back and listening to all of
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: them because they're all exceptional.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: They're all five star.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: They're all five star review, five stars. All right, guys,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for listening to Legally Brunette. Please
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: follow our feed wherever you listen to podcasts. Also leave
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: us a review. And again, if you have any cases
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: you would like us to discuss, please find me on
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Instagram and send me a message or if you have
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: any feedback, I love to hear it. So thank you
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: so much for listening. We appreciate you.