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A Life-Changing Revelation with Jim Kepner · Energy Medicine with Diane Goldner

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Energy Medicine with Diane Goldner. Everything is made
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of scintillating energy, even you. I'm Diane Goldner, an internationally
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known healer, intuitive, and author. Join me as we explore
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the energy and consciousness that creates your reality. I'm here
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to help you heal and awaken with Energy Medicine. Welcome
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to Energy Medicine. I'm your host, Diane Goldner, and today
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we have Jim Kempner with us, and he is a
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psychotherapist and an energy healer, both for many, many years.
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And so let's just start with you, okay, so people
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can kind of get a little grounding. So you were
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a psychotherapist, and then how did you end up beginning
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to study energy healing?
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Speaker 2: One of the things that I'm known for, I'm a
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gestalt therapist, and I wrote a book called Body Process,
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which is about working with the body in psychotherapy.
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Speaker 1: And that's the gestalt therapy, right?
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Speaker 2: That's in kind of gestalt, but I'd been doing hands-on
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kind of work, working with the body and working with
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tissue as part of that and was kind of known
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for that. But even before I got into that, I
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had some exposure in my, I guess, youth when I
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was still in, you know, I was like 18 to
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some Dr. Randolph Stone and some the founder of polarity
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therapy and just general stuff about energy.
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Speaker 1: You started very early.
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Speaker 3: Very early.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like 18, 19. And then I trained
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in kind of deep tissue work and then did the
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body oriented work. And I'd always had this spiritual bent,
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meditation and Zen, you know, things like that. The energy
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stuff was kind of in the background. I did Tai
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Chi and Qigong.
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Speaker 3: While I was.
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Speaker 2: In my training for psychotherapy. So it was all kind
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of intertwined for me. But You know, Rosalind would say
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it was energy stuff, but it was energy light.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. Wouldn't she say that?
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Speaker 3: She would.
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Speaker 1: She's usually so polite.
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Speaker 2: She is, but she also is opinionated, as you know.
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And she, you know, by which she was meaning, you know,
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it's energy, which if you've experienced energy work from hers.
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Hers is very energy. It's very powerful stuff.
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Speaker 3: Right.
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Speaker 1: It's a powerhouse.
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Speaker 3: Yeah. So all this stuff was.
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Speaker 2: Kind of intertwined and developing until, you know, when I
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was known for what I was doing and working with
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the body and somatic work and work with trauma. But
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it was meeting Rosalind that really kind of tipped the
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balance for really deeply studying energy work.
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Speaker 1: And we should just say, because we know who Rosalyn is,
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but not everyone might. And they might want to go
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back because I had Rosalyn on the podcast too. So
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it's Rosalyn Bruyere, who I really think of as the
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godmother of modern energy healing because she's influenced and awakened
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so many of us, right?
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely.
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Speaker 1: So how did you meet her? Because that doesn't just happen. Yeah.
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Speaker 3: You know, the.
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Speaker 2: There was a woman in Cleveland who had worked with Rosalyn,
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had lived in California and studied with Rosalyn out there
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and moved back to Cleveland where she grew up. And
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she said, oh, I'm bringing this person in that I
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worked with to do a workshop.
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Speaker 1: Oh.
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Speaker 2: And you really need to come.
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Speaker 3: Okay. So I did.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: And I tell the story of that because... Rosalind, in
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about the first 20 minutes of the workshop, decided that
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this audience, this bunch of Clevelanders, really didn't have enough
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basis and energy for her to teach the advertised topic.
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Speaker 1: Okay. Right?
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Speaker 2: Which was her thing about body symbology. So she just decided, okay,
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I'm just going to teach some basic energy work.
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Speaker 1: Okay.
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Speaker 2: And I was outraged. I'm sitting there and I'm just like,
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you don't do this. You don't change the topic. But
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lo and behold, she was presenting stuff that was so
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mind boggling. I'd never heard anyone talk about the chakras
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like she did. So I'm sitting there kind of fuming,
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but taking notes.
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Speaker 3: Yeah. Okay.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: And then fuming more and taking more notes until eventually,
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you know, the person sitting next to me kind of Like,
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all right, stop the fuming, you know? And so the
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workshop went on. And then in the, I tell this
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story in the book that the second day of the workshop,
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she'd done a little bit of stuff and, but a
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lot of talking, a lot of talking. And it was
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the end of the first, I don't know. We came
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back from lunch and she's talking about energy again and
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she's talking. And I go, Rosalind. I have some experience
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with energy from Tai Chi and stuff, but is that
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the same? How do I know it's the same as
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what you're talking about?
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: And she kind of looks at me, scans my aura
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is what I realized later.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, of course.
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Speaker 2: Walks over, and she puts her hand on my knee,
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and I felt like I was plugged into the wall socket.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.
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Speaker 2: And this buzz traveled through me, and I think I–
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People said I turned bright cherry red.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: And, you know, if smoke could have come out of
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my ears, it would have.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: And I'm just like, my jaw dropped. And then she
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does this for, I don't know, 30 seconds. She takes
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her hand off and she says, that's what I mean
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by energy.
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Speaker 1: I love it. You know what? I had a similar experience.
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Speaker 3: Did you really?
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Speaker 1: Yeah, because I was, you know, a journalist, right? Mm-hmm.
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And I went to see her. And I, you know,
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I think everyone around me kind of already knew I
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was going to become a healer. But I had not
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a clue.
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Speaker 2: Okay.
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Speaker 1: It took me about five minutes.
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Speaker 3: I believe it.
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Speaker 2: I remember you in those early days.
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Speaker 1: Yes. So I thought I was just there observing everything.
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So we had a wonderful, amazing interview, you know. And
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then she said, you know, come here. I just want
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to show you something. She had me lie down on
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her table, and I thought, wow, she's a little bit
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of a show-off, which she's the opposite, you know?
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Speaker 3: Well, she is, though, in a way.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, in a way. But she also, you know, I
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would try to get these stories out of her of, like,
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what she had done as a healer, and she would
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always be like, you know, well, maybe on a good
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day you get a healing. I think most days are
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good days for Rosen. But anyway, so she lays me
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down on her table. And I swear to God, I
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felt like there was a motorboat running through my solar plexus.
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It was unbelievable. It was so powerful. It was just
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like shocking. And then she said, I'm going to go
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into a higher vibration. And I didn't really feel as
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much then. And afterwards, I just thought, you know, Okay.
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She demonstrated a little energy. No, she had done a
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major healing. Maybe it was longer than I thought. It
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seemed like five minutes. It was probably 15 or something.
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Speaker 3: You didn't know until you got up, right?
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Speaker 1: What's that?
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Speaker 2: You didn't know until you got up.
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Speaker 1: Well, even then, she said, be careful because you might
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be a little high. And I was visiting. I lived
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in New York at the time, and I got in
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my car. I didn't know my way around L.A. to
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begin with, but I got totally lost on the freeways.
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But I was so high that I hardly cared. And
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then it turned out she had done this major healing
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to shift the energy between me and another person, which
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really needed to be done. And I hadn't even brought
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it up, but she just could see it. And I
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was like, wow.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: Yeah. She bowled us over, right?
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: And that's what sold me.
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Speaker 2: You know, I remember at the end of that moment,
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she walks away starting to, you know, continuing to teach.
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Speaker 3: And I'm going there like, I want that.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. You want that. You want to receive it and
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you want to be able to do it, right?
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Speaker 3: I want to learn it.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
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Speaker 2: And then everything kind of led from there, including all
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the You know, I'd never experienced the kind of big
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group feel that she put together.
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Speaker 3: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: In which all sorts of things occur that can't occur
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when we're on our own.
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Speaker 1: Yes.
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Speaker 3: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: So one of the things that occurred, so it was
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amazing when you contacted me after so many years, right?
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One of the things that occurred was you were working
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on a book, I think, even then, right? We were
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both working on a book. Maybe you weren't working on
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a book yet.
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Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I was. Oh, you mean, oh, you mean
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back then?
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Speaker 1: One foot at a time.
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Speaker 3: Right. Right.
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Speaker 2: I called it that and which became about time. So
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I think by the time I realized. recontacted you, I
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had written About Time. I published it on Amazon. And
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that story had been really something I'd been working on
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for 30 years, I think.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. So you... were in class and you were talking
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about a past life. And in those days, I was
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too embarrassed to admit. The idea of a past life
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was like too woo-woo for me.
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Speaker 2: Way over the top. Pretty woo-woo for me too, by
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the way.
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Speaker 1: Right. It isn't so much anymore, but I try to
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be careful because I know that for some listeners, it
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might still be a very tender topic and nerve-wracking for
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some people. But anyway, you were describing, you know, an
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incarnation where you knew Rosalyn.
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Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
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Speaker 1: And she was the head of nunnery.
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Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
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Speaker 1: The abbess.
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Speaker 3: She was an abbess.
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Speaker 1: You started talking about that. I had this flash. It
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was overwhelming of knowing. Really? That I had been there,
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that I had been studying with Rosalyn in those days, too.
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Speaker 3: I never knew that.
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Speaker 1: Yes, it was overwhelming. It was just like, oh, my God. And, yeah,
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I probably didn't say anything because I was in shock,
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and I probably didn't know how to say anything.
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Speaker 2: It blows the doors off everything, doesn't it?
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Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh, that's wonderful to hear.
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Speaker 1: So that's the kind of thing that does happen in
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those group fields, too.
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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. So, okay, so you started studying energy healing, and
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I guess you started integrating it in your gestalt therapy.
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Speaker 3: Yes, almost immediately, yeah.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, so what did you notice?
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Speaker 2: Well, I worked with my friend Carol DeSanto, who was
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a fellow student with Rosalyn and we, with Cleavender, and
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we met like every week. She went to the first
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retreat ahead of me. And then brought back all this
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stuff that she would work on me and then I'd
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practice it on her. We just developed this. And then
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I started going to the retreats with Rosalyn, which at
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that time were in Williamstown. And that was, I think,
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that was another big opening. There was two workshops in Cleveland.
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Speaker 3: And then this.
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Speaker 2: Five-day retreat, right? These five-day retreats with like 70 people
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and this... huge field. And every round in that field
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just opened things and advanced me in huge ways.
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Speaker 3: And then I would.
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Speaker 2: Spend the next six months integrating it into my work
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with clients. And really, I really found the energy work
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answered a whole bunch of things for me in terms
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of hands-on work. Because I'd been doing hands-on work for years.
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And it really opened psychotherapy clients to more capacity for
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body awareness, which was a big part of my work.
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And it supported them to reach into more dimensions of
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their being than I'd been able to with a kind
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of more more physical kind of work.
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Speaker 1: So did you find that people moved more quickly, more deeply,
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more quickly, more deeply?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, more deeply. It's hard to say more quickly, you know,
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I'm a psychotherapist, so things are always slower than.
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Speaker 1: You know, and even as an energy healer, you know,
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in the beginning, you're just like mesmerized, you know, like, wow, I...
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that person's headache is gone. But, you know, healing the
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whole pattern that causes the headache is a whole different,
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you know.
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Speaker 2: And Rosalyn once looked, she once said to the, there
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were maybe like 10, 12 psychotherapists who were in this
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regular group, Willinghamstown. She looked at us and she said,
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you know, you guys, I have sympathy for you guys
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because you guys see people and you work with them
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and Sometimes they feel better afterwards, but often they don't.
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You know, you're working with stuff that seems to be
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like a glacier sometimes. She said, people come to see
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me and they're really sick. And they feel so much
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better when they walk out of my office because I'm
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not trying to cure their psyches.
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Speaker 1: Well, but, you know, the healing does cure your psyche.
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I find the healing, you know, this is the interesting thing.
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I actually come from a family of psychoanalysts. Mm-hmm. Not
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just psychotherapists, but like hardcore Freudian psychoanalysts. And I think
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the party line, I love all my family, but we
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just don't discuss what I do.
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Speaker 3: Right. You know what I mean?
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Speaker 1: Because obviously it's just not on the same wavelength, let's
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just say. And so I had actually been through psychotherapy. Mm-hmm.
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Speaker 3: Psychoanalysis, I would guess.
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Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. And, you know, I had a really good
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intellectual grasp, or I thought I did, of all my problems,
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but they really hadn't gone away. You know what I mean?
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The feelings were pretty much the same as they'd always been.
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You know, and then I had my first healings, and
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I was shocked because, well, first of all, the first
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few healings, because I was so new to it, I
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didn't even think they were doing anything because they're working
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at a different level. It's more subtle. And I thought,
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you know.
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Speaker 3: It's nice.
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Speaker 1: It's, you know, it was like I felt relaxed during
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the session. But it turned out to be incredibly powerful
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and really moved me forward in ways I never would
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have imagined. But, you know, I went in for my first,
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and this is in one of my books, but I
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went in for my My fifth session, interesting fifth session.
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And she, the healer looked at me and she said,
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you know, she said, you have these quills in your neck.
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And I thought, oh God, she is really bonkers. Right.
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I was like, how am I going to get out
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of here? And I said, really? I said, you know,
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I've never seen quills in my neck. I said, is
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that a metaphor? She said, no, no, they're really there.
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And I was like, okay. And she, you know, I said, well,
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why would I have quills in my neck? And she said, well, because,
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you know, people tried to silence you. And she said,
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especially men, because it's on your right side. I was like, okay.
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And I really thought about walking out at that point,
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because this was like just so far off the charts
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for me at that point in my life. And then
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I thought, well, I'm just going to see how she's
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going to pull this off.
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Speaker 3: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: You know, my journalistic mind has saved me a few times.
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Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
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Speaker 1: That was one of the times it saved me because
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I was like, I want to just see how she's
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going to, you know. And I'm on her table and
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she gets to my neck and all of a sudden
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the most annoying, intense sensation is in my neck. I
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really was ready to kill her. It was unbelievable. And okay, I,
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you know, after the session, I say, are these quills
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gone or they're going to come back? And she said, well,
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that's up to you.
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Speaker 3: It sounds hokier by the minute, right?
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Speaker 1: Right. Okay. So I left thinking I'm never coming back.
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Just like that was it. That was the final. I
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had tried it and I, uh, went on, uh, family
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vacation with some members of my family and at the
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end of it I got into this like argument okay
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and I suddenly heard the way this male relative was
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speaking to me and I thought I said you know
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you can't speak to me that way that relative didn't
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talk to me for a year just.
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Speaker 3: Because I said that they followed your direction yeah.
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Speaker 1: And, you know, I got on the plane. It was
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a day later. And that's when I realized, I thought, oh,
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my God, those are the quills she's talking about. And
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it was literally as if somebody had gone in and
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changed my software.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
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Speaker 1: I mean, after that, I couldn't go back. Do you
19:06
know what I mean? That was, like, so dramatic because
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it wasn't like somebody sitting there in– You know, telling you,
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you know, you let men, you know, attack you and
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speak not nicely to you. And, you know, I'd be like, yeah, yeah.
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But it wouldn't have necessarily changed my consciousness. But the
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energy changed my consciousness without my even knowing it. And
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then I was a different person in the world.
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Speaker 2: So, I mean, even though her metaphor might have seemed
19:39
really weird to you, it I would say some embodied
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truth to it.
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Speaker 1: Well, I think that it energetic body it was literal
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yeah but at the time i that was too far
19:53
from me to go right i mean you can have
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energy things in your field from things that have happened to.
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Speaker 2: You yeah right yeah things are in the field and
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you know how she sees them is going to be
20:05
through her grid yeah And you had to connect it
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to actual experience.
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Speaker 3: In vivo experience.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
20:14
Speaker 3: Oh, that. There it is.
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Speaker 2: That's what she was talking about.
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Speaker 3: That's what this was.
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Speaker 4: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: So, you know, I always tell clients to give it
20:24
a few sessions because of my own experience, right? Yeah.
20:40
So I know you've done a lot of work with,
20:42
I mean, there were two things I was really interested in.
20:45
One was trauma, which I've talked a lot about in
20:48
this podcast. And I have to say that I think,
20:51
I don't know if you would agree with me, that
20:53
almost everyone is suffering from some aspect of trauma.
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Speaker 2: I don't know if, well, you know, I'm a psychologist,
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so I tend to kind of have a more formal
21:05
kind of terms around that.
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Speaker 3: I think.
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Speaker 2: Certainly, we're in a lot of collective trauma, and we
21:17
experience that directly or indirectly, just what's happening in the
21:22
larger collective field. I don't know if I would say
21:28
everyone has trauma in the sense of having experienced, as
21:34
we define.
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Speaker 3: It in psychology, trauma.
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Speaker 1: How would you define it?
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Speaker 3: Well, we talk about.
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Speaker 2: Unusually traumatic experiences, in other words, that which overwhelm our
21:48
normal coping. I think all of us have– everybody has
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difficulties of one kind or another for which we have
21:55
to form coping and defenses and all that. And then
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there's somewhere along the line where it is overwhelming to–
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our defenses. And we tend to call that more crossing
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the line into traumatic.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. That's, I think that's a more traditional, you know,
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I would, I had another therapist, Andy Hahn on, and he,
22:20
his definition of trauma is anything that you couldn't cope
22:22
with at the time. And I relate to that because I've,
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I know it's not the classical definition, but, But it
22:32
spoke to me because I would say I didn't think
22:36
I experienced trauma. But now, after many years of healing myself,
22:41
I realize that my nervous system had its own version
22:46
of trauma just from, you know, being a child in,
22:52
you know, just in a normal family.
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Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
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Speaker 1: But anyway, so you're working with people who have more
22:59
extreme experience.
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Speaker 4: Shock trauma and things that, you know, sexual abuse and
23:09
physical abuse and bad car accidents and all sorts of
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things that kind of are huge events that.
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Speaker 2: Really overwhelm the nervous system.
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Speaker 1: Yes.
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Speaker 2: And also overwhelm the energy system.
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Speaker 4: Yes.
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Speaker 2: That's one of the places that the energy work we do,
23:27
I think, has been most useful and most effective.
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Speaker 1: Give me an example or two.
23:36
Speaker 2: Well, Karen and I developed a lot of the energy
23:38
work to work directly in the nervous system. And a
23:42
couple of things come from that. One is to be
23:44
able to really work with ramping down the emergency responses
23:50
in the nervous system, the chronic emergency responses. ramping up
23:55
vagal tone, which is the kind of compensatory leveling outside
24:00
of the autonomic system.
24:02
Speaker 1: When you talk about vagal tone, you're talking about that
24:04
nerve that really.
24:05
Speaker 3: That nerve, and.
24:06
Speaker 2: That's the kind of calming, break on heart rate, slowing down,
24:12
being able to modulate the emergency response, which a lot
24:16
of people with really serious trauma experience It's the trauma response,
24:22
which is an emergency response, has set their nervous system
24:25
in a chronic kind of emergency arousal state. And so
24:32
having ways to very specifically and rapidly calm the nervous system,
24:37
which the work we do is very helpful in. But also,
24:42
one of the things we found is that... Traumatic events
24:47
set a kind of a pattern in the nervous system.
24:51
Often has a kind of cobwebby quality in the nerves that,
24:58
you know, when people have this experience of getting activated
25:01
or re-traumatized or set off in a way that kind
25:07
of post-traumatic experiences that seem to just run their course
25:13
And they can't get out of the reaction until it
25:16
runs down. In the nervous system, we were able to
25:20
kind of identify those as energy patterns. And we developed
25:26
some ways of working with them to help diffuse those
25:29
patterns so that people weren't always locked into that response.
25:33
So it's our kind of hands-on energy way of working.
25:40
Now in psychotherapy, there are other techniques that do similar
25:44
things that diffuse the trauma patterns. The eye movement desensitization,
25:49
other kinds of somatic work do that.
25:52
Speaker 3: But this is our way of doing it.
25:54
Speaker 1: Yeah. I find that, you know, when you're doing a heal,
25:58
for me, when I do a healing for somebody, you know,
26:01
I want to say almost any healing is going to
26:04
reset a person, start resetting a person's nervous system because
26:09
you're bringing in such a beautiful, high state of harmony
26:13
right when you're in the energy you know i've.
26:17
Speaker 2: Always been great that's just the energy work in general
26:22
really helped me yeah trauma responses i had and in
26:26
the way that you're talking about and built a lot
26:31
more experiences of goodness which was a kind of foreign
26:37
concept in my Yeah.
26:40
Speaker 1: And it circumvents the mental body, which I feel, right,
26:44
it goes right to your beingness.
26:49
Speaker 2: So it bypasses a lot of where our defenses are
26:53
in the mental and introduces us to actual felt experience
26:59
that's different. So I think that goes a long way.
27:04
But I think there's also a lot to be said
27:07
for having specific ways of directing to particular parts of
27:13
the nervous system and particular places.
27:16
Speaker 1: So do you want to give me an example of,
27:19
you know, a case? I mean, obviously you don't have
27:21
to use that person's name, but, you know, kind of
27:24
what you did and how it changed their, what they
27:29
came in with and how things changed.
27:32
Speaker 2: Well, I've had a number of cases Certainly a number
27:37
of clients who had sexual abuse in childhood.
27:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true.
27:41
Speaker 2: And had a lot of reactions, reactions to being startled,
27:48
reactions to touch, reactions to things that would happen in
27:53
relationship with a partner, particularly around sexuality. And that made
27:59
it really difficult to.
28:04
To have sex and difficult to have safe touch. Even
28:09
though it was safe, it still created reactions in them.
28:12
Speaker 1: It didn't feel safe.
28:14
Speaker 3: It didn't feel safe.
28:15
Speaker 2: So particularly with those who could tolerate a safe, gentle
28:20
touch with me, and often we'd start with, you know,
28:25
places that were not associated with their trauma and build
28:30
kind of tolerance for generally for touch. And use the
28:35
energy work just in a broad way, first to calm
28:39
their sympathetic nervous system, their adrenals, all the emergency responses,
28:44
to give them a sense of internal felt, I can calm,
28:51
and work with their actually kind of feeling that as
28:55
not just me doing something to them, but they're having choice,
28:59
they're having the capacity to calm themselves. And then When
29:04
people would feel safe enough, knowing that what I was
29:09
doing was safe and that I would take them seriously
29:12
and listen, I would back away when they needed me
29:15
to back away. And I once spent with one client,
29:20
we spent like two sessions with her telling me, all right,
29:25
put your hand on my foot. Okay, now take your
29:27
hand away. Okay, and I did. Hey, put your hand
29:33
on my foot again. All right, take it away.
29:36
Speaker 1: So she had authority and.
29:39
Speaker 4: Absolutely.
29:40
Speaker 2: And then she did this, we did this, you know,
29:42
on her shoulder. And until she knew that I would
29:48
listen to her, take her seriously, but more, she started
29:51
to feel really like, oh, I can do this. And
29:56
it was like claiming her body for herself. So that
29:59
was just like.
30:00
Speaker 3: The prelude to a lot of work.
30:01
Speaker 1: That's just the beginning, right?
30:03
Speaker 2: Just the beginning. You know, with one client, she would
30:07
start to have these reactions to her husband. And I
30:10
had already worked a lot in her brain and nervous system.
30:14
And she felt, you know, we could calm. So she
30:17
could bring up something more sensitive because she trusted that
30:21
we could do something with it. And the way we
30:25
worked with these trauma patterns was, My preference was always
30:29
to have the most minimal simulation possible. So just have
30:34
her think about the incident with her husband just long
30:38
enough till I could find the reaction in her.
30:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, the energy.
30:41
Speaker 2: And then actually would tell her, okay, good, now distract.
30:45
I'll work with it for a while.
30:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
30:47
Speaker 2: And then I would work clearing the pattern, and then
30:49
we'd test it. I'd have her go back to remembering
30:52
the instance. And if there was still more reaction, I'd
30:56
kind of work to clear that. And then we'd go
30:59
back and test it until she could think about what happened.
31:04
She could talk about it with a mostly neutral sense
31:10
to it.
31:11
Speaker 1: Wow, that's great.
31:12
Speaker 3: And so.
31:15
Speaker 2: That kind of thing was an example of how we.
31:19
Speaker 1: Used this process. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just, you know,
31:25
I'm going to state the obvious. I'm laughing at myself
31:27
before I even state it. I mean, the energy is
31:30
so healing. It's almost redundant to say energy healing.
31:38
Speaker 3: Well, yeah. I mean, for us, yeah, I think because
31:42
we had, but, but.
31:45
Speaker 2: Of course you and I can both remember when like, man,
31:49
no idea what was going on.
31:50
Speaker 3: Like, you know, like, I know.
31:54
Speaker 2: It took me a long time for my mind to
31:57
catch up to what the work was and what it
32:00
did to me and helped and what it supported.
32:03
Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, I think it didn't take that long
32:07
for me to, I kind of ran with it. But
32:13
I think now I forget sometimes how much of an
32:20
outlier I am. This still is, because to me it's
32:24
my normal world, if you know what I mean. Right.
32:29
And so I forget that it's not the common experience
32:35
that everyone has.
32:36
Speaker 3: Yeah.
32:37
Speaker 2: I once did a presentation for the School of Somatic
32:41
Psychology in San Francisco, and the title of it was
32:46
Normalizing the Woo-Woo. And because my intention was to make
32:53
the bridged from somatic work, psychological and somatic work to
32:58
energy work to kind of like point out the normal
33:02
things that we experience that are energetic that we don't
33:06
call that.
33:07
Speaker 1: Give an example.
33:08
Speaker 3: I love that.
33:10
Speaker 2: Everybody knows like when you get on an elevator and
33:14
you know where everyone in the elevator is, even though
33:18
you're not.
33:19
Speaker 3: Looking at them or.
33:21
Speaker 1: Or you know what they're feeling or if they're anxious or.
33:24
Speaker 2: Right. Or what it's like to hug someone who's not
33:27
in their body. Literally not there. Everyone's had that one
33:34
with somebody.
33:35
Speaker 1: Yeah.
33:36
Speaker 2: And, you know, that sense of the missing presence in
33:38
the body.
33:39
Speaker 3: Uh-huh.
33:40
Speaker 4: Somewhere.
33:40
Speaker 1: These are good. Yeah.
33:41
Speaker 3: You know?
33:42
Speaker 1: A few more.
33:43
Speaker 2: Or maybe it's just me, but I get a little mischievous.
33:46
I used to, I would pull up to a stoplight,
33:49
but A little behind where the person was in the
33:54
car next to me.
33:56
Speaker 3: And so they couldn't see me.
33:58
Speaker 4: Yeah.
33:58
Speaker 2: And I'd stare at them until they would turn around.
34:02
Speaker 1: They turned around.
34:03
Speaker 3: Right. What up with that, right?
34:06
Speaker 2: And everyone's had something like those kind of experiences. So
34:10
starting there. And then there's a just natural energy in touch.
34:18
But it's different. It's not just touch. I call it
34:22
touch from the control tower, meaning I'm up here touching.
34:27
Speaker 3: But when we're really in our.
34:30
Speaker 2: Hand touching another person, that's a very palpable difference in touch.
34:38
So you can have people in a group touch in
34:43
those different ways and compare. What's it like to kind
34:47
of touch someone or be touched when someone is kind
34:50
of up here in the control tower, like, you know,
34:54
controlling the hand like a puppet? And what's it like
34:58
when we really put ourselves into the presence of our hands?
35:03
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I'm thinking, you know, when I was,
35:07
I mean, this is a long time ago, one of
35:09
my nephews died. I was walking with him to a
35:12
lake and he was on his little bike. And I
35:16
guess there was a place in the sidewalk where the
35:18
tree had, you know, the roots had uplifted the sidewalk.
35:23
And I put my hand on his back to help him,
35:28
you know, to give him a little extra oomph, right?
35:33
With intention, right? Mm-hmm. And he was like, Aunt Diane.
35:37
He was like, I guess he'd been taught not to
35:40
be touched in certain ways, which I wasn't doing. But
35:44
the connection was so unexpected and unusual for him, just
35:50
real connection, that he kind of was like, whoa, Aunt Diane. So, yeah.
35:59
Speaker 2: It was palpably different for him.
36:01
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
36:02
Speaker 2: And I think that's what train touch is. That's what
36:05
energy touch is. It conveys something very different. And we
36:10
all know it when we feel it, but we might
36:13
not have called that energy or a sense of presence
36:18
or all those kind of things that we're used to
36:20
in energy work.
36:21
Speaker 1: Yeah. How did the talk go over? It must have been...
36:24
It went over well.
36:26
Speaker 3: They were pretty receptive. Yeah.
36:29
Speaker 2: They enjoyed doing the energy exercises and feeling that and
36:34
kind of taking that stance of, oh, this isn't so weird.
36:37
Speaker 1: It's not really so woo-woo.
36:40
Speaker 2: It's like there's a bridge from what we do and
36:42
know all the time, but we just have called it
36:45
something and bringing it to conscious attention meant, oh, we
36:51
can include things more.
36:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's true even with... You know, in
36:57
the healing world, we talk about channeling, right? But, you know,
37:03
in the scientific world, we talk about inspiration. But are
37:09
they really so different, right? You're receiving something, some flash.
37:15
Speaker 3: Right, of.
37:17
Speaker 2: Well, probably a lot of scientists around intuition would say, well,
37:21
that's just your own internal processing.
37:24
Speaker 1: So....
37:26
Speaker 2: Most scientists have a lot of difficulty with that we're
37:29
doing something.
37:31
Speaker 1: But I think some of the great scientists like Einstein
37:39
were aware that they were receiving it. Yeah.
37:45
Speaker 2: If you talk to people privately, they might say something
37:49
different than what they want their colleagues to know.
37:53
Speaker 1: If they're really inspired. So anyway, this has been really wonderful.
37:57
I hope everyone will read your books and, you know,
38:01
maybe see you for help with trauma, right?
38:04
Speaker 2: It's been great to talk to you. And I just
38:07
love hearing the things that you're working with and understanding.
38:10
Speaker 3: And it's a pleasure.
38:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, same here. We're going to sign off. Thank you
38:15
all for listening and being here. And we'll see you
38:19
next week for Energy Medicine and wishing you all love, blessings, joy.
38:27
Thank you for listening. Connect with me at dianegoldner.com to
38:32
learn about workshops, to book a session, or to ask
38:36
a question for a future episode. I do love to
38:39
receive your questions and comments. Please join me next time
38:44
as we continue our healing journey. Our focus is on
38:56
spiritual vibration. We do not give medical advice. Please consult
39:01
your doctor for all medical questions and treatments.