Latest / Life Community Church / 1 Corinthians Discussion | Chapter 13 | Mike, Jodi, & Caleb

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1 Corinthians Discussion | Chapter 13 | Mike, Jodi, & Caleb · Life Community Church

0:15
SPEAKER_00: Here we go.
0:16
SPEAKER_02: We are here.
0:17
SPEAKER_00: Ready to rock and roll with the left.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
0:20
SPEAKER_02: Who's who is in the room with us?
0:22
SPEAKER_02: The three amigos.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: You guys, we could do whatever we want.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: There's like no one in here telling us what to do.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
0:29
SPEAKER_01: You're in control.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: For some reason, Taylor is a captain of the show.
0:34
SPEAKER_02: Well, there's going to be a lot of good things I think are going to be said between Miss Jody and Pastor Mike.
0:38
SPEAKER_02: So we should just absolutely just jump in right now.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure what you mean by that, because we're the oldest.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: Is that what you're saying?
0:47
SPEAKER_02: Most wisdom.
0:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm not usually lung in the category of Pastor Mike, so now I'm feeling a little uneasy.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: Jody, I think you're a lot younger.
0:58
SPEAKER_01: I don't think you should be put mic in the right.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: You know, you get those questionnaires, you're like 20 to 40, 40 to 50, 40 to 60.
1:05
SPEAKER_00: We're still in separate categories.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:08
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I'm a far.
1:10
SPEAKER_01: There's a huge margin there.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: It's a very good thing.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to ask you to say what your age is, Jody, but there's a huge margin between you and that.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: I don't mind.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: All right.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: So 1 Corinthians 13.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we are talking about love.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: Let's be loving.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: Here's the thing that I'm just going to start out with that blew my mind about this category.
1:29
SPEAKER_00: And I'll tell you, so I've only officiated a couple of weddings, like three.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: And I've never used this love is patient.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: I've never used it in a wedding.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: Have you used it, Pastor Mike?
1:46
SPEAKER_01: Maybe years ago.
1:46
SPEAKER_01: I haven't used it for a number of years.
1:49
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:49
SPEAKER_01: It's just because I one is I thought well there's several reasons.
1:54
SPEAKER_01: But I thought that's it's probably one of the portions of scripture that's overused.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
2:00
SPEAKER_01: At weddings.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: But what I was shocked to say is that it was only on, you know, when Kelly and I studied it this winter that I realized it's not about marriage at all.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: And that is the only thing we use it for.
2:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:15
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
2:16
SPEAKER_00: And so I just thought that was so funny.
2:18
SPEAKER_00: So I was kind of glad that I've never used it for a wedding, even though I've only done three.
2:22
SPEAKER_02: I did one wedding and I did use it.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: You did.
2:27
SPEAKER_02: I did.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it is I know, right?
2:31
SPEAKER_00: So I think it's so interesting.
2:33
SPEAKER_00: Like, well, so we'll get into the content of it, but all of this love that we're talking about is for each other in the body of Christ.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: And that's exactly where we don't use it.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
2:45
SPEAKER_01: Shame on us.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: So speaking of weddings, I just did my granddaughter's wedding.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: Which my second granddaughter's That's your second wedding this summer.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: Yes, did my grandson's four weeks ago and just did my granddaughter's, you know, this last weekend.
3:04
SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things that I talked about, because I'd really prayed about what to say to my granddaughter and her now husband, um, because I wanted to say something.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: I said something specific to my grandson and his wife, and I wanted to say something specific to them.
3:22
SPEAKER_01: And as I was praying and just I I was led to this, is that actually back to Genesis 1, where God says we know in Genesis 1, seven times God so there's seven segments of creation in in Genesis one.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: And after the first six, God says it's good.
3:42
SPEAKER_01: It's good, it's good.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: And after the seventh one, which was a creation of man, he says it's very good.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: And so and the reason I went back there is because I heard this statement for something to be truly good, it must be shaped by love.
3:58
SPEAKER_01: And so when we go back to creation, God shaped this because of his love.
4:05
SPEAKER_01: He shaped this world because of his love for us.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: I love what you're saying there, but I also there's also a differentiation.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: We're s we're getting ready to start Genesis with our kids.
4:17
SPEAKER_00: So I was looking at it again.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: And he spoke and he spoke and he spoke, and he formed, he shaped humankind.
4:26
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: And so then I was trying to like we know that God doesn't have hands, so you're just like, how did he shape?
4:32
SPEAKER_00: How did he form?
4:33
SPEAKER_00: However, he did it, he did it so special and so different than all the other things that he created.
4:39
SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: Because what is love?
4:43
SPEAKER_01: You know?
4:43
SPEAKER_01: Stop.
4:44
SPEAKER_01: What is love?
4:47
SPEAKER_01: Put a definition to it.
4:49
unknown: Dang.
4:50
SPEAKER_01: Now I've heard different, you know, love is willing the good of the other.
4:54
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's some of the some of the ancient fathers would use that term, willing the you know, willing the good of others is a form of love.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: But I think as I put thought to this, like you were just saying, Jody, about this chapter is about how we love one another.
5:13
SPEAKER_01: What what is love?
5:14
SPEAKER_01: Love is a motivator, love is a motive.
5:17
SPEAKER_00: Well, and this chapter gives us a lot of definitions of what love is.
5:20
SPEAKER_00: So let's get into it.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: Now you guys know, so I'm just gonna very briefly say this because I thought it was very interesting.
5:28
SPEAKER_00: I've been taking Greek all summer.
5:30
SPEAKER_00: I'm actually in my last class this week.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: And um, so this chapter, there's something neat that happens with all of if you were reading it in Greek, you would get all of this repetition, all of these sounds that sound the same.
5:46
SPEAKER_00: So love is agape.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: Probably lots of people know that one.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: So we hear agape over and over.
5:53
SPEAKER_00: So he says, well, first of all, it opens.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: So just thinking about this being read as a letter.
5:57
SPEAKER_00: So you hear this letter, and when you hear things that are kind of catchy, it helps you remember things.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: And so he's got this um intro Paul does where he says, if I speak in the tongues of men, um, if I have the gift of prophecy, if I give all I possess.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: Like so he has this kind of this, it's called an anaphora where you have repetition, repetition, repetition.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: Then it moves into um love, agape.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: Well, all the things that it says, love is patient, love is kind, love does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud, it does not dishonor, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs, it doesn't delight in evil, it rejoices with the truth.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: All of those Greek words rhyme.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: They all rhyme.
6:48
SPEAKER_00: That's a lot.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: So you've got agape, then you've got zeloy, you've got physiota, you've got it's like oi and a, oi and a, oi and a with agape over and over again.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, it just showed me like the skill of Paul in writing this, of course, partnered with the Holy Spirit to make this, and it is so catchy, like even all these years later in in English, we still like have that repetition that um you can easily memorize it.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: So I just thought that was interesting.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: One of the things that um I've taught about in the different loves that we see the different Greek words used in love to try to explain um agape versus phileo and some of the others is that agape is of of all the other words used, agape is the only word used for one-way love.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: One direction.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: One direction.
7:51
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: The other ones are all a reciprocal mutual recipe.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: And certainly not directed towards yourself.
7:58
SPEAKER_01: Right.
7:59
SPEAKER_01: But agape is the only one that's one directional because God loved, not because he was trying to get love back.
8:05
SPEAKER_01: He's just that God is love.
8:07
SPEAKER_01: And try to wrap your mind around that one.
8:09
unknown: Yeah.
8:10
SPEAKER_01: You know, but God loves, God for God so loved the world, what he wasn't waiting for a response.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: He did it without the response.
8:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:19
SPEAKER_01: And so how many times I think about that is that you know, how many times is God desiring us to operate in that agape love, you know, with one another?
8:34
SPEAKER_01: I think of even my you know, my wife is I was thinking about this yesterday.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: How many times have I really truly loved her with agape love?
8:42
SPEAKER_01: Meaning I wouldn't expect anything in return.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: Could I?
8:49
unknown: Yeah.
8:50
SPEAKER_02: Caleb.
8:51
SPEAKER_02: It's challenging.
8:53
SPEAKER_02: I was as well actually today is Mimatea's four-year-old anniversary.
8:59
SPEAKER_02: Well, happy anniversary.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: Happy anniversary.
9:03
SPEAKER_02: But it made me think like I that thought had like with myself like waking up early, going into the bigger.
9:09
SPEAKER_02: Did you make breakfast?
9:10
SPEAKER_00: You got flowers this morning.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: Good job.
9:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, like a directional love that I wasn't expecting her, you know, to do anything, but that I did experience, you know, experience that this morning.
9:23
SPEAKER_00: So Yeah.
9:24
SPEAKER_02: But I had the thought of like whenever we say like something is love, so when we say God is love, I've heard it kind of said that whenever like if you if you say like this, like I have like water I'm actually butchering this right now.
9:39
SPEAKER_02: But if I have trying to think how to say that he says that if I have something, it can be taken away.
9:44
SPEAKER_02: So if I have this water, or if I compare it to if I am water, like the the differential of like being able to remove something versus not being able to remove something gives it like a good value.
9:56
SPEAKER_02: It's value, yes.
9:57
SPEAKER_02: So there's way more value.
9:59
SPEAKER_02: When we say God is love, it's hard to think that he cannot not be that.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: And he kind of says something similar to what you're saying right after this, because this chapter comes after concerning spiritual gifts.
10:12
SPEAKER_00: So that was chapter twelve.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: And then we're hearing he intros, yeah.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: Well, if I have any of these gifts but I don't have love, I am a resounding gong or clinging symbol.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: So like all those gifts are for naught if I don't have love.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: If I don't have love, I'm nothing.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: And then he goes on to say Um at the end that what will remain, like all of these gifts that we're having, prophecy, knowledge, they're all gonna pass away.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: The only thing that has value, eternal value, is love.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: That is the greatest gift.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: He says it in the very end.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: The greatest of these is love.
10:56
SPEAKER_00: So when we see God face to face, we're not gonna need all these gifts that we talked about in chapter 12.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: What we're gonna be faced with is literally love.
11:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: And so those are less valuable, those gifts.
11:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I have taught this for many years, is that I you know I'll ask people, I said, what's what's the first or foremost evidence of being filled with the spirit?
11:22
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people, especially in you know, certain circles, will say, well, speaking in tongues.
11:27
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: And I'll say, No.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: That's not scriptural.
11:32
SPEAKER_01: And they'll go, well, what do you mean?
11:33
SPEAKER_01: I said, Well, what is it?
11:34
SPEAKER_01: I said, it's love.
11:36
SPEAKER_01: Love is the first evidence of being filled with the spirit, I think.
11:39
unknown: Uh-huh.
11:40
SPEAKER_01: Because one, it's because of this chapter, what it's saying, but is uh because Paul said, if I can do all these things but I don't have love, then I I don't really have it.
11:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: And so back to what I talked about in the beginning is that love has to be the motivator, right?
11:58
SPEAKER_01: It it it needs to be the motivator of everything that we do in our lives, in the in in the formation of our spiritual lives, and in and then in the formation of our, you know, just our life in general, our disciplines, the way we live, our character, and all that.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: I think at the basis it has to be love.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting, the last few weeks, God's really been putting me in situations to where he's highlighting this aspect of love.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: And to love people.
12:33
SPEAKER_00: And um that maybe you don't want to be.
12:37
SPEAKER_01: No, no, it's I think sometimes it's what he's been showing me is um being present.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: Because you really can't love people when you're not present.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: I s this is I wrote this down because this is in this uh verse.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: It says um in verse 12, for now we see only reflection as in a mirror, then we shall see face to face.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: Now I know in part, then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: And fully known is fully seeing someone.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: That's real love.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: When someone fully sees you, fully accepts you, then you feel known, then you feel love.
13:21
SPEAKER_01: I think I I might have shared this at our staff meeting a few weeks ago or whatever, but part of this, I won't go into all of it, but part of it is I was walking into Walmart recently, and there was this elderly lady there, her name was Mary, and she had this sparkly I love Jesus pin on.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: And so I just I try to stop when I see greeters at the and just talk to them and and just talking to her.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: And you can tell that they're not used to people stopping and talking to them, you know.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: And so I did, and I found out, you know, Mary had, you know, been working at Walmart for 20-some years and her story and and how she wasn't actually going to a church because of something that happened in her background.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: But she goes, I've been walking with Jesus for 30 years and all this, that.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: And so it's just that you could tell somebody took time to talk to her.
14:17
SPEAKER_01: The next I was in a TJ Maxx, and there was this gal that was dressed kind of, I don't know if you guys are familiar with Kat Von D.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: She was uh LA Inc., she's all and she got baptized a few years ago.
14:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, this gal was dressed just like Kat Von D, all black, black gloves, you know, just all this stuff.
14:37
SPEAKER_01: And I just started talking to her.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: And I said, Hey, I really like your style.
14:42
SPEAKER_01: I said, You remind me of Kat Von D.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: And she's and this girl's probably 20 years old.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: She goes, Do you know Kat Von D?
14:49
SPEAKER_01: And I said, Yes.
14:50
SPEAKER_01: And she goes, Oh, I love her.
14:52
SPEAKER_00: She said, Come on, I don't have this hipster haircut for nothing.
14:56
SPEAKER_01: And so we start talking about this.
14:59
SPEAKER_01: And and when we got done, she reached her hand across the counter for my hand, and she said, Thank you.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: For seeing me.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: For seeing me.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: That's love.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:13
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times I think we don't think about that and the impact that can have.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: Aaron Ross Powell When you were talking earlier, you reminded me of um a moment in my life.
15:24
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, being a follower of Jesus for many, many years, but then feeling the call to ministry, and I knew that my heart had changed, and I won't say any names, but I would be around kids, and this particular kid annoyed me to no end.
15:43
SPEAKER_01: And on one-now he's a youth pastor.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: No, I'm sorry, I'm not particularly anyway.
15:50
SPEAKER_00: And so then there was this one week where my heart changed towards this kid, and all I felt was love for them.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, what is happening to me?
16:02
SPEAKER_00: And so then I've just like, my eyes, my you know, had shifted the love towards them, and they were not going to give me anything in return.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: And I could just feel the the Lord changing my heart.
16:13
SPEAKER_00: And so anyway.
16:15
SPEAKER_02: I had a thought.
16:15
SPEAKER_02: Let me ask you guys this question.
16:17
SPEAKER_02: Is this love that's described here, is this a love that's only produced by the work of the Holy Spirit?
16:23
SPEAKER_02: Or can the world have this kind of love as described here?
16:27
SPEAKER_00: Aaron Ross Powell Oh, that's a great question.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: So if an unbeliever says, well, I mean, I mean I got love for things and I have definitely witnessed people over the years where I'm like, I can't believe that you're not a believer.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: And I think they have different terms.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: Like I was talking to a client recently, and she had told me, very affluent woman, that she had um lived in a group home in her 20s taking care of kids in foster care.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: And I was blown away by this.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: And in her mind, it wasn't because of love.
17:03
SPEAKER_00: It she said, um, I said, Well, did you ever go on to foster later, you know, when you got married?
17:09
SPEAKER_00: She said, Oh no, no, I'm not, I don't have altruistic tendencies like that.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, what is this word?
17:17
SPEAKER_00: I've never used altruism in a sentence.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: You know what I'm saying?
17:21
SPEAKER_00: And it's just for goodwill, like doing humanitarian.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: You know, so it's like, I think they do it for other reasons to like feel good for themselves about themselves or to receive things in return.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: It maybe isn't as selfless, but I don't that's a really good question.
17:37
SPEAKER_00: We definitely love differently with the Holy Spirit.
17:40
SPEAKER_02: I always because I work um you know Mondays and Tuesdays and like more of what I call like a secular job, like useable.
17:48
SPEAKER_02: You know, you get a lot of questions like, well, you know, I'm a good since I'm a good person, I'm doing these good things, what is my need for this?
17:56
SPEAKER_02: And so this was that was something that was on my my mind was like, well, they like they they obviously like love their family, you know.
18:03
SPEAKER_02: Like is every per like is every person because we're made in the image of God and we loves like that.
18:08
SPEAKER_02: Do we have that?
18:10
SPEAKER_02: I don't you know, I don't know.
18:11
SPEAKER_00: Like it's kind of a It's a great question.
18:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of I would also say though, you know, there we all have a need to worship.
18:21
SPEAKER_00: So like that's built into you.
18:23
SPEAKER_00: So what are you?
18:25
SPEAKER_00: What is your you good person who doesn't worship God?
18:28
SPEAKER_00: Who do you worship?
18:30
SPEAKER_00: Because we are worshiping something.
18:31
unknown: Yeah.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, that need to is there a drive to do good things so that you're trying to keep that consistent good feeling going?
18:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:46
SPEAKER_01: I think sometimes sometimes I think I've seen people outside of a life of of Christianity be more loving than people within Christianity.
18:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was also another thought.
19:09
SPEAKER_01: Probably it's no doubt some of the influence they had growing up, type of thing.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: But they're just they're just like very loving people, you know.
19:18
SPEAKER_01: Um and so but but I have to think that there isn't some kind of influence of God in that in their lives, whether they're walking, following Jesus ardently now or not.
19:31
SPEAKER_01: You know.
19:31
SPEAKER_01: I was r recently reading some things about how God takes notice of people outside of a relationship with him, the things that they do, like Cornelius.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: God says, I've I've been eyeing the way that you've been.
19:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:47
SPEAKER_01: And he hadn't come to Christ.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: He was a God fearer.
19:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: That's a great point.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: He was a God fearer.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: In that sense.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: There was something attractive about God to him.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: And God says, I've I've noticed, I've been watching your actions.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's something like that.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: I think there's times God said, I've I've been watching how you love people.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:06
SPEAKER_01: You know.
20:07
SPEAKER_01: So I agree with that.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: Um what do you think about this?
20:12
SPEAKER_00: Let's going back to that knowing in part, prophesying in part, verse nine.
20:17
SPEAKER_00: And when complete l when completeness comes, what's in part disappears.
20:24
SPEAKER_00: And he says, um, for now we see only reflection as in a mirror, then we shall see face to face.
20:33
SPEAKER_00: And considering I didn't hadn't realized that Corinth was known for their bronze.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: And so their mirrors were bronze mirrors.
20:43
SPEAKER_00: And so you, you know, you wouldn't see a good reflection.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: Um and so, you know, that's what Paul is kind of saying.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: He's like, listen, you're not seeing when you're putting all your emphasis in these gifts and you're putting in, you know, speaking in tongues and prophesying, and that's where all your energy goes.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: That's part of the picture.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: You're gonna see fully.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: Right now, you're just seeing the reflection of God.
21:08
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna see God face to face.
21:12
SPEAKER_00: And there's even just like even in our mirror's current day, you can see a really good picture of someone by looking into a mirror.
21:20
SPEAKER_00: It's still not the same as looking into their face and their face looking into yours in real time.
21:25
SPEAKER_03: Right.
21:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: And so thinking about how much we love God.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: So this is what I was meditating on.
21:32
SPEAKER_00: How much I love God, and I'm only getting a fraction of understanding of who he is and what he's like.
21:41
SPEAKER_00: But he sees me fully.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: And that is not a pretty picture, but he loves fully.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: That's a good analogy.
21:50
SPEAKER_00: You know?
21:50
SPEAKER_00: And so what will that be like?
21:53
SPEAKER_00: We're in Revelation 22 this Sunday, our with our kids.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: What will it be like when there we will see him face to face?
22:00
SPEAKER_00: To face.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: His servants will serve him.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: We won't need any light.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: His name will be on our foreheads.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: Like there's no barrier, there's no copper mirror.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: There's no reflection.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: It's just full-on love.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: Are we gonna be able to take it?
22:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:16
SPEAKER_02: It's pretty wild to think about, isn't it?
22:19
SPEAKER_02: I think all the emotions that every human longs to experience will be to the max capacity, right?
22:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:25
SPEAKER_02: All the things that, you know.
22:27
SPEAKER_02: Excluded from doubts and you know the you know, all the negative what we call negative emotions.
22:33
SPEAKER_02: You know.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:38
SPEAKER_01: One of the theological terms is the consummation of all things.
22:42
SPEAKER_01: Where everything becomes authentic and pure and genuine and origin, the origin of God's intention.
22:51
SPEAKER_01: And I don't know.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: I th I I probably thought some of these things I ponder probably maybe too much, try to figure out.
22:59
SPEAKER_01: But it's just I don't know, it's just gonna blow you away, I think, to understand that kind of love, to understand that kind of relationship.
23:09
SPEAKER_01: And um because I started doing back to revelation when you said that um earlier this year I started doing a a little bit more of a deep dive on the book of Revelation.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: And just you know, if you get back if you get beyond some of the uh just the contemporary ideology and verbiage and really get into you know the ancient part of the scripture of what the intention of the scripture was.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: It's and it's a the book of Revelation is a beautiful book that that portrays a beautiful work of God, of what causing all things to become new.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: And that's the love.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: That's the love that God has.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: He keeps moving as much as I think sometimes most of the time we don't realize God is continually moving everything towards his intention.
24:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: And we can look in our day and go, well, this kind of a not so good time and culture and everything, but sometimes you've got to get beyond that and understand that's why it's important for us to have a good Bible reading, scripture, prayer life, is that it helps us to understand how to keep moving with God and towards his intention.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: And verse four says, love is patient.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, like I get impatient.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: You ever have like a parent and they're like, listen, you could have a chocolate bar right now, or we can go to the ice cream store.
24:42
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I'll take the chocolate bar.
24:44
SPEAKER_00: You know, like I can't wait, I can't wait.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: Like, I have no patience for that, you know, like, no, wait the long game.
24:51
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be worth it.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: I was thinking about this list, um, love is patient, love is kind, it does not envy, and trying to like think about that in the context in which it's supposed to be, which is the community.
25:07
SPEAKER_00: And so, like taking it out of the marriage relationship, where it also works too, but like what would it look like in Life Community Church where we patiently love one another, where we don't envy those in our body, where we don't have pride, where we don't dishonor, where we um where we are slow to anger, we don't delight in evil, we do rejoice with the truth, that we protect one another, that we trust one another.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: I don't see how you can get to that kind of love and relationship in the large gathering.
25:53
SPEAKER_00: You know, like you gotta enter in, you gotta come closer to experience that kind of love.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: And I I think sometimes we are um again, maybe unintentionally, but we probably get more fixed in what people do rather than who they are.
26:16
SPEAKER_01: Let me let me try to backfield that.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: So a number of years ago, um I had the responsibility of a large staff, I had like eight pastors under me.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: And one of the pastors, very responsible individual, always doing, you know, always doing what he's supposed to be doing, where you're supposed to be all that.
26:35
SPEAKER_01: And all of a sudden, he was like not doing all those things, become very irresponsible, all this stuff.
26:42
SPEAKER_01: So I pulled him into my office and chewed his butt.
26:47
SPEAKER_00: In a loving way.
26:48
SPEAKER_01: In a loving way.
26:49
SPEAKER_01: Well, no, yeah.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: Sort of a loving way.
26:52
SPEAKER_01: Only to find out that he was dealing with all these family issues with his father, you know, stuff.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: Hadn't bailed his father out of jail and all this stuff because just some I don't know.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: And and and later, a few months later, I learned this principle about seek first to understand before being understood.
27:13
SPEAKER_00: Seek first to understand.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: Before being understood.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: Meaning seek to see why someone is doing something before you s begin to say, this is what you need to do, this is what you need to do, this is what you need to do.
27:27
SPEAKER_00: That's good principle.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: And then I felt like about an inch tall, you know, because I'm like, he breaks down, starts crying, he starts telling me all this stuff, and I'm like, oh gosh, Mike, you're a cat.
27:39
SPEAKER_01: You know.
27:40
SPEAKER_01: If you would have just taken a little bit of time instead of being focused on what he was doing, is that you know out of character.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: And find out about his humanity.
27:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, find out why, you know.
27:53
SPEAKER_01: What's going on?
27:54
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what love does.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: I think love defaults first to about you rather than what you're doing or not doing.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: I think that's so true because the relationships that I have that I know people love me, and if they say something to me, because I know the love that's there, I take it way differently than from someone I'm unsure of our relationship.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: You know, so if Kelly or Pastor or Pastor Sean says anything to me that feels like I could I would normally um take offense or be on the defense because of our relationship, I realize there's more to this.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: Like it's not in an unloving way because that clearly is there.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: So what do I need to hear from this?
28:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's good.
28:39
SPEAKER_02: That's one thing I've been learning a lot with the teenagers in like what I would call behavior management, where like when we're out at events where we're doing like you know, Illinois student ministry things, and I'm like, I'm like kind of like on high alert because I want them to behave well.
28:57
SPEAKER_02: Well, they at first although I always want to make emphasis that the that the students know that Caleb loves them.
29:03
SPEAKER_02: Like he loves this is why this is you know, this is why we do what we do because you know, behave and you know, but whenever they know I love them, whenever a situation comes where they think to do something they shouldn't do, Caleb loves me.
29:14
SPEAKER_02: So I'm not gonna, you know.
29:16
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
29:16
SPEAKER_02: You know, obviously same thing with God.
29:18
SPEAKER_02: Like whenever I have the view of God that he loved me first, that changes the why I, you know, why I even want to serve him.
29:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
29:26
SPEAKER_02: Not serving him because of because he's a the dictator that he is, right?
29:29
SPEAKER_02: And so whatever love is there, now I can start making decisions based upon that and not based upon just behaving.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: Caleb, you're way better than me.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: You know what I said to the kids?
29:40
SPEAKER_00: God loves you no matter what.
29:42
SPEAKER_02: I don't perfect at it at 3 a.m.
29:48
SPEAKER_02: whenever boys come in the morning.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: Straighten up.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: Caleb, that reminds me of something you said, and I didn't get to talk to you about this when you were on um the service with Hayes and Pastor Jamie, and you said kids said to you they want to get back to older times.
30:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the older ways.
30:07
SPEAKER_00: The old ways.
30:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, let's go.
30:09
SPEAKER_00: I'm on board with this.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: Let's build a campaign.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: Talk to me more about that.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: What was actually said?
30:16
SPEAKER_02: It was kind of vague because I don't even know if the student was, I don't know if really she knew what she was trying to say, but they just rec the students have recognized that there's some things in their generation that are just missing.
30:28
SPEAKER_02: They see it.
30:29
SPEAKER_00: This is what we're talking about.
30:31
SPEAKER_00: Like this is what love does.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: If we are the church and we're acting this way towards one another and to those around us, people are gonna notice.
30:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think the teenagers are experiencing love from the church.
30:44
SPEAKER_02: Um I think they're getting they're in the presence of God, and so that's affecting them.
30:50
SPEAKER_02: And they just they're just having revelations.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: You could do a series like, oh, my sister-in-law did this with my kids, um, like a manners class.
31:03
unknown: Yeah.
31:04
SPEAKER_02: That should be a good idea.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: Guess what?
31:05
SPEAKER_00: Each Sunday we're gonna have Manners Moment with Miss Matea.
31:10
SPEAKER_02: That'd be good.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: How to address teachers, shaking hands.
31:16
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
31:16
SPEAKER_00: That is a big pee of mine.
31:18
SPEAKER_02: All right, come on.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: I will correct kids.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: If they give me a terrible handshake, I'll say, Can I teach you something?
31:23
SPEAKER_00: Don't ever shake my hand like that again.
31:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:25
SPEAKER_02: Well, it's the dab, so you should probably start learning that.
31:28
SPEAKER_00: Hey, what is it?
31:29
SPEAKER_00: What is it?
31:30
SPEAKER_02: It's like so you come in like this.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: No, we're going back to olden times.
31:36
SPEAKER_00: So that's what that's what you those aren't the old ways.
31:38
SPEAKER_02: I'd probably give out a hundred of those on a Sunday night.
31:42
SPEAKER_00: Really?
31:43
SPEAKER_00: Do it again.
31:45
SPEAKER_01: So that yeah Life lessons with Caleb.
31:49
SPEAKER_01: But but that reminded me of something when you said that again.
31:53
SPEAKER_01: Was a dream that I had months ago.
31:57
SPEAKER_01: And it was like I was speaking.
31:59
SPEAKER_01: I was walk I walked out into a platform and there was m maybe like 800 to 1,000, but it was like high school and young adults.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: That was the crowd.
32:08
SPEAKER_01: Not my typical crowd that I speak to.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: But so when I walked out uh and when I went to speak, I couldn't speak.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: All I could do was sing.
32:19
SPEAKER_01: I'm not a singer, okay?
32:21
SPEAKER_01: But I haven't heard about this dream.
32:24
SPEAKER_01: It was a spiritual song.
32:26
SPEAKER_01: I mean, just singing by the Spirit of God.
32:28
SPEAKER_01: And when I started to sing, the whole crowd joined me, not followed me, joined me.
32:35
SPEAKER_01: It's like we were all singing the same song.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: This was your dream?
32:40
SPEAKER_01: This was my dream.
32:41
SPEAKER_01: And so then the the singing kind of died down.
32:44
SPEAKER_01: And it was it kind of reminded me of the room of our auditorium.
32:48
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of fine, and then you know, with the risers and you know, we only was a bigger room.
32:52
SPEAKER_01: And and then all of a sudden, somebody from way in the back, one of the young people, said, talk to us about sin.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: And another one said, Yes, talk to us about sin.
33:04
SPEAKER_01: And then another one, please talk to us about sin.
33:06
SPEAKER_01: And then the whole group was like, talk to us about sin.
33:10
SPEAKER_01: They're so I took them over to the book of James and started talking about some things about, you know, sin.
33:16
SPEAKER_01: And it was, and then I woke up and I was like, and I laid there and thinking, but I think there's back to what you were talking about, there are things in these younger generations right now that I think that are birthed by the Spirit of God as much as they may not.
33:31
SPEAKER_01: And the love back to I think this is God's love for this generation, that He's birthing those things, those types of things in their hearts because of God's desire and God's plan and purpose for them for the days and and the age to come.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:52
SPEAKER_02: I think for a lot of the teenagers, a lot of them come from families where there is no love.
33:58
SPEAKER_02: Or or maybe even love is so perverted now.
34:01
SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say, or it looks so different.
34:03
SPEAKER_00: Like I work for you, but I won't sit down at a table with you.
34:06
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
34:06
SPEAKER_02: We have yeah, provide for you.
34:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, love has been just abused.
34:10
SPEAKER_02: And so I think when they're coming into more authentic realness of it, they just like just devour it.
34:17
SPEAKER_00: They want more of the real and the authentic versus the well, and that's what's so um counterintuitive with love, especially agape love.
34:26
SPEAKER_00: You think you're giving something away, you're giving something away, you're going to be depleted.
34:32
SPEAKER_00: And instead, it fills you up, looking outwards, looking others towards.
34:39
SPEAKER_00: It is um it's partnering with God and it is exhilarating.
34:46
unknown: Yeah.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: And then you want more of those experiences, you know, like it feels good to make others feel good.
34:51
SPEAKER_00: It really does.
34:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, very much so.
34:53
SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of them are realizing um that because even like with our Michigan trip, like we're not really going like third world country, you're not seeing great poverty, but you know you are seeing a lot of brokenness and things like that.
35:08
SPEAKER_02: And um, the kids thrive whenever they begin to serve and they're pouring out from where God has been like healing like areas of their life in brokenness.
35:18
SPEAKER_02: So I would say that's a lot of the kids there in in the Iron River, there's really not very many moms, moms and dads involved in lives.
35:27
SPEAKER_02: Like the six to eight kids that come regularly on the youth night there, not a single one of them have a parent in their life.
35:33
SPEAKER_02: So whether in prison or drugs or whatever.
35:36
SPEAKER_02: And so whenever our kids have experienced some of that here and they go and they're pouring out love to them, serving them, ministering to them, I mean they get they're so overwhelmed with just the work of the ministry.
35:49
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: It's beautiful.
35:51
SPEAKER_02: It's just love being poured out.
35:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
35:52
SPEAKER_02: And it's covered, and like it says, love covers a multitude of sins, like love is a big thing.
35:56
SPEAKER_00: And to understand, I can do this every day.
36:00
SPEAKER_00: I don't have to be in Michigan.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: I can love people like this wherever I am.
36:03
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
36:04
SPEAKER_00: And it will be like that.
36:05
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
36:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:06
SPEAKER_01: I think that's a good thing.
36:07
SPEAKER_01: So if they bring that to this, it's more blessed to give than to receive.
36:10
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
36:10
SPEAKER_02: So when they bring so if they can bring that home, bring it to school, and there's obviously some challenges when you're back to norm and you know, you fight you fight those things, but there's I mean, there's kids at their school who they walk by probably every day and don't realize like they could you owe that kid a debt of love, you know, that that whole that whole thing as well.
36:28
SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
36:29
SPEAKER_02: That's good.
36:30
SPEAKER_02: Well, guys, we could talk all day about this, right?
36:32
SPEAKER_00: I know, right?
36:33
SPEAKER_00: How are we looking?
36:34
SPEAKER_02: I'm looking good.
36:34
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I think it would be a good time for since you know I'm sitting at the podcast seat.
36:39
SPEAKER_00: Oh, so you're gonna pray.
36:41
SPEAKER_02: I now get to distribute who gets to pray, and I love that.
36:44
SPEAKER_00: Now you're taking command.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
36:47
SPEAKER_01: Now he wants to take control.
36:49
SPEAKER_01: Pastor Mike, could you?
36:50
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
36:51
SPEAKER_01: I would love to.
36:52
SPEAKER_01: Jesus, I thank you that uh first and foremost, we can love because you first loved us.
37:01
SPEAKER_01: And you loved us in an unconditional way.
37:07
SPEAKER_01: No set, like if you do this, I'll love you if you do that.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: You just said, uh, I've came, I gave my life because I love.
37:15
SPEAKER_01: And we can learn from that.
37:18
SPEAKER_01: And so I thank you that I I pray, I pray for me, but I pray for uh Caleb and Jody, and I pray for everyone listening uh to this podcast that uh our heart, our prayer would be help us to love better today than we did yesterday.
37:36
SPEAKER_01: Help us to see those who need love.
37:39
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes maybe our reaction isn't to love, but you help us, Holy Spirit, to see that this is a person that needs to be touched by the love of God, just as we desire to be touched by the love of God.
37:53
SPEAKER_01: And so uh, and uh as we do that, as those around us and those we encounter every day, I think that's how uh we become a part of changing the world to make it better in Jesus' name.
38:07
SPEAKER_01: Amen.