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Episode 12 - If I Could Do Early Motherhood Again... · Messy Minded Mama

• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Messy Minded Mama, a podcast for moms who look managed but might feel a bit messy on the inside.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Kate.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Jen.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: And we are here creating space for real talk about motherhood, mental health, and the invisible load so many women carry.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to Messy Minded Mama.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: For another episode, we are trialing something different this week.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's our first week of Jen and I recording separately because the schedules just didn't align.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna have different types of video for this one.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: We're virtually in our own space for the first time.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: So this week we thought we would talk about if we could do motherhood again, especially early motherhood.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: What would that look like for us?
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: What advice would we give ourselves?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: What are we reflecting on?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, if I could go back to the version of me that was early motherhood, I wouldn't, I would not tell her to do more.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: I would tell her to worry less because I think I really was so stressed about every part of motherhood that it was really hard to enjoy it.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt like I wasn't doing enough or I was getting things wrong, especially around feedings or sleep and routines.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that if I just had it figured out, or what was wrong with me that I didn't have it figured out or that it would click.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I just felt like it took away from some of the joy I think I could have had.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: And not that I didn't enjoy it, but it was it was hard.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think looking back now, nothing I did was wrong.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't actually wrong, it was just really, really hard in that moment.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I think really thinking about nothing really prepares you.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: And we've talked about this before for how much you question yourself in early motherhood.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: And just hearing you talk about kind of the joy that gets stripped away in those moments and not being able to be fully present, that resonates so much with my thoughts on early motherhood, too.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: The worry can become all-consuming and it can start to take over, especially when something is going wrong or you think that something's going wrong.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: That worry sets in and then it starts to take over.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember the worry getting so bad at times that I would be like, everything has to change.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of focusing on like one small thing that maybe I could do differently and like see how it goes, I would like to throw everything out the window, including all the things that were working.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I would start to change too much that then now I didn't even know what would maybe be solving the initial problem.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I think when you let the worry become all-consuming, then you do honestly start to believe that nothing you're doing is right and that nothing is working.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that was not the truth.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: The truth was the small changes maybe needed to happen to help my kiddos through whatever they were going through, but it didn't mean that I was doing everything wrong and the worrying did not help.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: It just kind of magnified that for me.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think we get this idea where it has to be big things that change and then we get overwhelmed and it's like I'm never gonna reach this.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it's that black and white thinking of it has to be all this way or nothing at all.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that that actually is a huge barrier to us achieving any type of change when really a small like micro change might make a huge difference.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, that micro change would have been letting some stuff go and not like thinking about it on repeat.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm wondering, you know, you talked about worry and what were some of the big worries that came up for you?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think one big one was around feeding for sure.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was, I am I not producing enough?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Why is my why is my supply dropping?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: Am I not eating the right things?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: Am I not taking care of myself well enough?
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so the worry became about me in those moments of like, what am I again doing wrong?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: What can I be doing differently to help add to that?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, outside expectations of like, if I can't feed and if I'm not um producing enough, then what is that gonna look like?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: So then worrying about just outside thoughts on that became very overwhelming at times.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then also my with Jack in particular, he was having like some gastro issues and trying to figure that out.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, Oh, I'm allergic to dairy, I need to stop eating all dairy.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like I did, I shifted so many things in like one week to try to figure out what would help Jack be more comfortable.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end of the day, even my pediatrician was like, What are you doing?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: You're changing five things, and now we have no idea what the actual problem is or what's actually working for you.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: So feeding was a big one for me because of how Jack was reacting and his discomfort that I thought he was having, and then just you know, being hard on myself of like, what am I doing wrong to be creating this or again not produce enough?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Feeding was a big one for me too.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Bryn would not latch well.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember so much stress, worry, anxiety, you name it, around feeding, and maybe perceived judgment.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that anyone was really judging me, but some perceived judgment, especially right after I had her and we were in hospital and she wasn't latching, and the lactation consultant came in and just full on grabbed my breast and was like kind of shoved it in Bryn's mouth.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like for me, I had no warning that this was happening.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then her talking about the shape of my breast and Bryn's latch and all this stuff, and I felt so defeated and I felt so judged for something I really had not a lot of control over.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that was really hard for me.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then it just trickled through the rest of my journey of like I exclusively pumped for so long, and what would happen if I stopped pumping?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, are my colleagues judging me because I'm taking time away to go pump?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: But none of that was necessarily even happening, but I stressed so much.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Is she gaining enough weight?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Why do I have like is this formula the best one to supplement with?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: My anxiety was so high.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: I really am pretty amazed that I functioned because I was constantly worried.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, totally.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: And how like sad in those moments of the hospital to already be set down this path of feeling judged in some way or just feeling uncomfortable in what you're learning for the first time.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're you're talking about your first child, you're talking about your first time going through this.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I have such a similar experience with Jack in the hospital of I think just differing opinions from people that were coming in the room, and whether it was the nurse that was on the night versus the day, and how they were showing up and things they were telling me to do that were conflicting, and it was so confusing.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I just felt like I didn't know what to do right in those moments.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: I also remember even before going into labor, having people tell me, no pacifier, no bottle, all the things.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Jack and Elle both were NICU babies, and they both needed to go shortly after I gave birth to them.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: They had to go to the NICU and they were not given my milk right away, even they were given donor milk, they were given a bottle, they were given a pacifier for soothing, all the things for what they needed in those moments.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's we get these ideas built up in our head.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so, right out of the gate with both my kids, I thought I'm doing something wrong because I can't give them everything that I need to because I'm not physically with them the whole time.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Also, I'm they're giving him them things that I don't want them to or I don't think I should, but this isn't the first time they've had babies in the NICU they're taking care of.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: So who do I trust in those moments?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you start to, you feel like you have to lean into what people are telling you in the hospital because they know better than I do, right?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: But also, I've heard so many other opinions that those started to get to me too.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I just remember being very confused in those super early days before we even got out of the hospital, not knowing what was right or wrong for my kids.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's there's no manual for it, and and every experience is so different.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll never forget after I had Bryn, Taylor ended up going home because he had been up for like 30-something hours.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I was alone in the hospital, which was fine.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, he needed sleep, it's all good.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I'll I was alone and she was Bryn was crying and crying and crying, and I was like, I don't know what I'm doing, I don't know what I should be doing.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Am I doing something wrong?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: And apparently, in the packet they give you is a sheet about the second night and how hard the second night is.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh I don't know about you, but I was so damn exhausted that I am not reading the folder stacked of paperwork that you handed me to find out why my child might be crying.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's not my instinct.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: And when the nurse came in, I was just like beside myself.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, what?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: What's wrong?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what am I doing?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, Well, there's a paper about it in the folder.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, like totally dismissed you.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: There's 35.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: There's 35 papers in that stupid folder.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not gonna read this.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I get like the second night is harder, but that could have been a conversation instead of like, well, you should have read this, right?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Should the word should has such a heavy connotation, whether we say it for ourselves or someone else is saying it, because there's an expectation in it.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, I don't want your should.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want your expectation.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: You could it could have been a conversation, but again, I thought I was doing something wrong.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then I felt shame because I didn't read the 35 papers.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I I think there was so much anxiety, especially around Britain, of worrying about, I literally worried about everything, every little thing, sleep, feeding.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: When do you start real food, mashed food, how many do you start at time?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: All the things I worried about it all.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then Sawyer came.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I just felt so free.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, because I didn't internalize as much, and I don't know why, maybe because I had lived with such high anxiety in the before with Bryn, but yeah, I just felt I just felt free, like I wasn't anxious about every small thing.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do think even if I had the same experience with Elle, and I don't think it's uncommon to have that experience.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure not everybody does, but I think there's just this quiet confidence that comes with the second of by then, maybe for both of us, we probably already realized we were being too hard on ourselves, right?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: We probably already realized we were carrying more anxiety than we wanted.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: I for sure had gone to therapy by then, like I'd done some things for myself that did help me along that journey, I think, and and definitely helped win by the time Elle came along, that I could just be a little quieter.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I remember my hospital experience being way different with her than it was with him.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it was the support that was given just looked different.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: The lack of judgment looked different.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you talked about Taylor going home to sleep.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's funny because with Jack, Tyler was sleeping in the hospital room, but he was sleeping.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: He needed his rest as well.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: I needed him to rest so that he could help me out when I needed it, right?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: But we had one nurse who came in and completely called him out on Kim sleeping.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: And basically, I think verbatim said to him, Are you ready to get up and be a dad now?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Totally called him out.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, This is the worst experience.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Him and I both had a bad experience with that nurse in particular, but I was like, How dare she like make him feel bad for getting some sleep after we're both exhausted and have this newborn baby?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's not just for moms, it's for dad.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: He was a first-time dad trying to figure it out, trying to do the best he could and juggle all these things.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it was not fair to like have that judgment passed down right out of the gate for both of us.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: So those things made it really hard in the early days, too.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's been consistent from what I hear from a lot of women, but also what I experienced is with Sawyer, I felt freer.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: But that that comparison, whether I did it to myself or other people might have compared me, like made little comments.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about that before, the little comments, you know, make little comments or the fear of judgment that was always consistent for me.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Even now, I think it it feels consistent for me of having some fear of judgment or anxiety or or worry about, you know, do I parent in a way that like is okay?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: That my friends are like, oh, she's a good mom.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that constant worry, even though I think I'm a good mom, but that that fear is always there that that it that has never gone away from me.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: What has been helpful?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think it like after you say it's still there, and I'm I have no doubt it is.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like it's still there for me all the time as well, but I think things have shifted a little bit, or at least I'm more aware of it in some ways now.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, are there things that you feel like have helped you over time to get to a different place with that?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think a lot of it for me, like in the early days, well, in general, I have control issues, right?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's a it's a joke in our family, but like I was so focused on routine this and getting it right and control, control, control that I think that in and of itself was stressing me out.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: And when I focused on more of just this piece of connection, yeah, and that my presence is actually what matters more, and like it may look disastrous, it may look messy, but my kids are happy and they're they feel supported and loved, even if they're tiny babies and I'm holding them a lot, or you know, we're making a mess in the kitchen or whatever.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like I that connection piece and focusing more on that than my own sense of or need for control, I think that mindset shift has helped me the most.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree for me too, just trying to make sure that I am being present in the moments.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that means I need to be called out on that, right?
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I'm not noticing it myself, giving Tyler permission to kind of be like, where are you right now, or what's going on?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then that even just those little reminders can help me be like, okay, I might be worrying about something that needs my attention, but maybe I can set it aside and be more present in this moment currently.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I do think trying to just release this thought of everything needs to be perfect, or release the worry or fear that's like overcoming in those moments, and just say, like, okay, I'm just gonna take a deep breath and I'm gonna sit with this moment and be more present has been helpful.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think about the idea?
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because I saw something about this and I didn't really ever think about it until I was reading something about how our nervous system, our mood as moms, kind of sets the tone.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that even if I'm subconsciously in a rough head space or anxious, my kids feel that.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts there?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of my biggest fears, honestly, being an anxious person and an anxious mom is that I'm gonna pass that on to the kids and then I'm gonna make them worry about things to such like a magnified extent that like they don't need to and that they're gonna carry that, or that they're not gonna want to be independent or go do things because they're gonna be fearful of the bad things happening.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm constantly trying to check if just because I'm scanning the playground for like all my worries, right?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: And all my fears of the things that can happen or go wrong or the bad people in this world does not mean my kids need to like feel that.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: So trying really hard to not internalize it.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm working my way through it, but I'm trying not to vocalize it.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying things out loud that don't need to be said out loud.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Even the shift of you heard my kids say that I say, like, be careful or all the time, right?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Be safe.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: That was their one thing that you said all the time.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I do.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: I've said that their whole lives, but I try to make this conscious effort to ask them in a different way.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel safe doing that?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, are you comfortable with how high you are on the playground?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: As the kids get older, that becomes less and less of a conversation.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I feel more confident in them making those choices.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, forever I have told my kids to be careful.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: And everything you read says, don't tell your kids to be careful.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm trying so hard to just shift that and reframe it to empower them to make these choices for themselves and not necessarily pass my anxiety on to them.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're 100% right.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: I do think it impacts the whole mood, it impacts how they um look at and view their situation in the world.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't want them to walk through life feeling overly anxious.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've noticed that too, that if I am worried or anxious about something, I pick up on it a lot, like at the barn.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um because horses are big freaking creatures.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 17:52
  unknown: Yep.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I would like to say I'm calm around them all the time, and I'm not because I'm always worried something's gonna happen, especially when Bryn is there next to them, like and I'm not in close reach to like grab her.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I am worried, and I think not only do the horses pick up on my stress, but she picks up on it, and I don't want her to go through life scared.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Accidents happen, I can't protect them from everything, but I do notice that if I am uneasy, even if I'm trying my best to hide it, she picks up on that and then it sends her tone.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so I have to kind of like fake it till I make it sometimes, or I'll name it, you know, in an appropriate setting for her of like, oh, mom's kind of like worried about that horse a little bit, like they seem on edge.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we take a step back and instead of being like, ah, what are you doing?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: to kind of say, like, oh, I'm feeling nervous about this.
• 18:50
  unknown: Yeah.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't want her to, like you said, internalize it.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it's that again, that fear of like, am I gonna ruin my kid?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think what you're talking about is the difference, right?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's like there's times when we need to educate them and help them understand the concerns that do exist, and so it's trying to find that balance between education and you know, overly protective.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: What would you do differently?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like as we sit here and reflect back about what's been helpful and where our stresses were.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything that you would have done differently in early motherhood?
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Or now even?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, the big one for me, and I'm not just saying this because I'm a therapist, but I would have started therapy sooner.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: I would have looked for more like community and support.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, not even just therapy, but finding more mom groups to be a part of.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have like a big community of moms around me, and I wish I would have worked harder to find that for myself because it is isolating, right?
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: It is lonely.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: And even after I remember, I think I've touched on this briefly, but Jack started having breath holding spells at eight months old.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: And if you are a mom with a kid who has had them, they can be intense.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: It is terrifying.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Even the reassurance from the doctor saying your body's doing what it needs to, he's not breathing, he passes out, it resets him, he wakes back up.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: It all happens very quickly.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: But the first time it happened, I had no idea what was going on.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then it took a little bit of it continuing to happen for us to be like, okay, we can name it, we know what it is, but it didn't calm the worry or the fears.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I wish at that point in time I would have started a therapy for myself.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: I did it later and worked through that.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it was such a game changer, and it had such an impact in my life for so long.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: I had no idea what I was still carrying when it came to um the guilt around it.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Anytime he would have a breath holding spell and pass out, I blamed myself because I was the one walking away from him.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, imagine a child you're putting to sleep at night, and those early, like between one and two years old, trying to put to sleep at night, and they don't want you to leave the room.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: So they start crying.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: His crying meant he'd cry hard enough, he would have a breath holding spell, he'd pass out in bed, and we would like have to start all over again.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I had carried all this guilt of I'm the one walking out and leaving him crying, and he's having these breath holding spells because I'm leaving him, or trying to discipline a toddler and tell them they're doing something wrong or not giving them something they want, and then they start crying hard enough that he passed out.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: So there or he fell and hit his head, and I didn't wasn't watching him close enough.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many examples of that for me in particular that I carried for years, and I probably didn't actually work through that until he was like four.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: So looking back in hindsight, it's community and whatever way that looks like for me.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: I wish I would have found it sooner.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I have it now and I'm so grateful for all the moms that I'm surrounded by now.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah for this space.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I just wish I would have done all of that sooner to really help me through the real stuff that was going on in early days and beyond.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: I I think that community piece resonates for me too, is you know, I especially like this day and age or whatever we say.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: I had Bryn relatively young.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I had her at 27, um, which like feels old and not all at the same time, but none of my other friends had kids.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: It was just me and Taylor.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't even know that a lot of our friends were married yet.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because we got married really young too.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, I definitely, you know, I had my family and they were great and supportive, and my sis, my older sister has kids.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I they're older too.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so I felt very much alone in a lot of it.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm also not like the soup most super extroverted person.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: So like sometimes trying to find community feels really daunting for me because I've worked in in a helping setting field for so long and I give so much there that when I'm not there, finding connection can feel really hard because I feel like I'm just spending more energy.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so I've had to try to find a balance of like being really intentional of where I'm spending that energy so that it's me spending, but I'm also getting some whatever back in my cup, you know, to feel a sense of community and support.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: But I've had to be really intentional about it, but I would have done that sooner, like you just said, is I didn't seek that out because it felt scary, it felt daunting, it felt vulnerable to do that.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't really know how to go about doing it, but I wish I would have because I think building that community for me would have been great.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: And Brynn didn't go to daycare right away, she didn't go till she was two and a half or three.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: So those early days for me, I didn't have that strong sense.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that is definitely, I think that community piece is really important, even if you're not a big people person, find finding a friend.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: I guess there's an app.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know this actually until recently.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: But there's like apps that you can like do the swipey thing, you know, like uh oh, you can the dating apps or whatever, but it's for friends or like mom friends.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't even know that existed until someone told me about it.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: And like how cool is that for people that don't want to go meet people in the wild because it seems daunting?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Do a little internet swiping thing.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I had no idea that existed till you just said it.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think we should find the name and link that into the I will find it.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I will find it.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: I someone was telling me there's like I think I don't know that this one is specific for moms, but there's one it's like bumble or whatever that you it's dating, but there's also like a friend component.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, but then I do know there's one like specific for mom.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Someone was telling me about it, and I was like, that's really cool because when I met Taylor, there was no like swipey swipey dating things, and so like how cool that you can go meet people.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think that's really cool.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: The other big piece for me looking back, especially with Brynn, is I rushed back to work.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: I went back to work when she was eight weeks old.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, and I wish I wouldn't have.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um work has always been a really big part of my identity, like a really big piece of who I of how I define who I am.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt so strange not being at work.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: I was like uncomfortable for for whatever ridiculous reason.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: I can't now it seems so silly, but in the moment I was like, I can't just be at home.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: I need to be working, I need to be doing, I need to all these things.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: So she I went back part-time.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: I did at least give myself a little bit of okay, but I went back part-time at eight weeks, and I wish I would have taken my whole time to be with her and have that and just slow down because life was not an emergency.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: That was not an emergency, that was not a crisis that I needed to rush to.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: They're fine, they were fine.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but yeah, that's well, I think for some people it's going back is like the comfortable thing to do almost, right?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can get so lost in the days of being with your little one, and it is so exhausting, and it feels so unknown and foreign to us in the beginning that I feel like I didn't want to rush back to work, but I do remember when I did go back to work that it was like, okay, at least I know what my day is gonna look like or how to manage it a little bit differently.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: It just felt um, you know, more natural for me to be doing that than it did for me to be at home being like, okay, what's the curveball I'm gonna get thrown today?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I think sometimes it's this pressure to go back, I'm sure, is there too.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: But there's also like the, oh, maybe it'll just feel good to like have that social outing, right?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: To be able to visit with other people about what's going on in life and be able to do something that felt a little more comfortable.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I didn't know who I was without that workpiece, which you know has taken a lot of years to get to get okay with, but um it just felt uncomfortable to be at home.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: So which is so silly, like it feels silly to say now, but it was very real.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I definitely would have like slowed down and soaked that in a little bit more.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think one thing I wanted to go back to too, you talked about the, you know, being an introvert.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think whether you're introverted or extroverted, it can be so daunting to try to find that community.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: And one thing that I'm hearing moms do now, and I'm creating space for as a therapist, is finding that community earlier.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like amazed and so proud of some of these moms now that are so proactive in their approach of I am early pregnancy and I don't have community around me and I want to find it now.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: And some of the people I work with are they're going to the public floor specialist now.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: They're already on it with lactation consultants and meeting them ahead of giving birth, right?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many things that I'm sure others when I had Jack and Elle were doing it as well, but I was not one of them.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I do think finding that support and planning on that support when you maybe have more energy and you have it in you to do that versus waiting until after you give birth and then saying, like, okay, now I need to find all these things and all these people to help me.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but kind of already having the relationships built, the rapport there and having it teed up, ready to go is so wise.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I wish that I would have done that in my days as well.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Me too.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like my epic lack of planning kind of comes out, yeah.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, which is so funny because I feel like I'm super organized and planned out in so many ways.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then reflecting back on a lot of the motherhood things, whether it was right before I had my kiddos, when I had my kids, even now, I feel like some of my great planning skills, they're they're just not existent at home.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think sometimes it can feel messy and it can feel overwhelming, and it can feel like you're not doing it right, but you're not messing anybody up is like a big message we have.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I you found the best quote to close us out with.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: I did.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: Our quote for the day that we will leave you with is you didn't need to be perfect then, and you don't need to be perfect now.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: You just need support and you deserve it.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thanks for joining us today.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Take care of yourselves, and we will see you next week on Messy Minded Mama.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: See ya next time.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for being here with us today.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: If something in this episode resonated, we're really glad you listened.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Messy minded or not, you're not alone in this, and you don't have to have it all figured out.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: If you'd like to stay connected, you can follow Messy Minded Mama wherever you listen to podcasts.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: And follow us on Instagram at messy.minded.mama.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: We'll be back to connect again soon.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being here.