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MULTIMILLIONAIRE PERV JEFFREY EPSTEIN NECK SNAPPED. What will autopsy reveal? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. The highoid bone in the
0:10
Speaker 1: neck being fractured and other fractures in the neck make
0:14
Speaker 1: it more likely. And again this is a percentage call
0:17
Speaker 1: more likely that it was a homicide than a suicide.
0:20
Speaker 1: But it can be both. It can be either. Rather,
0:23
Speaker 1: it can either be a suicide or a homicide. Still
0:25
Speaker 1: that hasn't been confirmed. I am now more suspicious than
0:28
Speaker 1: ever that this could be a homicide number one, because
0:30
Speaker 1: of the bones. That answer is going to come to
0:33
Speaker 1: a spill. Because if someone is attacked, you see signs
0:37
Speaker 1: of the attack on the body. That hasn't been discussed yet.
0:39
Speaker 1: It hasn't been released yet. I'm waiting to see that.
0:42
Speaker 1: If someone holds you down and strangles you, you see
0:44
Speaker 1: evidence on the body bruises. Now, my source, undisclosed source
0:50
Speaker 1: is not going to go into that. Right now, that
0:52
Speaker 1: question will be answered. Wow, you're hearing it from an expert.
0:56
Speaker 1: That was doctor Mark Siegel on Fox News. If I
0:59
Speaker 1: had a nickel for every time I studied an autopsy
1:04
Speaker 1: report regarding strangulation, asphyxiation suicide, I'd be a millionaire right now.
1:12
Speaker 1: And that's what it's coming down to. Did multi millionaire
1:16
Speaker 1: perv Jeffrey Epstein commit suicide or was he murdered? I
1:23
Speaker 1: mean it's he graced this as crime stories. Thank you
1:25
Speaker 1: for being with us at the get go. I was
1:28
Speaker 1: so irritated with all the pseudo intellectuals, especially talking heads,
1:34
Speaker 1: yacking about how conspiracy theories of our murder were far fetched.
1:38
Speaker 1: That's not true. Our minds should be open to any
1:42
Speaker 1: and all possibility with me an all star panel to
1:46
Speaker 1: figure it out as best we can. California veteran prosecutor
1:50
Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State, author of Blood Beneath
1:54
Speaker 1: My Feet on Amazon. Joseph Scott Morgan, renowned medical exam
2:00
Speaker 1: or for the State of Florida, doctor Tim Gallagher, Jeff Cortez,
2:05
Speaker 1: a former FBI special agent, and joining me right now.
2:10
Speaker 1: Radar Online dot Com investigative reporter Alexis Terres Chuck Now, Alexis,
2:17
Speaker 1: I'm looking to you for the facts. But let me
2:18
Speaker 1: just point out at the get go, Epstein was deeply
2:24
Speaker 1: considering cooperating, naming names of the powerful people that he
2:31
Speaker 1: handed over that he trafficked underage girls for sex reasons.
2:36
Speaker 1: He had already been found unconscious in his prison cell, earlier,
2:40
Speaker 1: he indicated to some he had been attacked, He was
2:44
Speaker 1: taken off suicide watch, he was in isolation. Isn't that
2:48
Speaker 1: unusual for suicide risk the camera's malfunction? Are you kidding me?
2:56
Speaker 1: This is where al Chapo was held. This is where
3:00
Speaker 1: off was held. This is where Isis and al Qada
3:03
Speaker 1: have been held. I mean even the guys in Mexico
3:10
Speaker 1: who let El Chapo ride off in a tunnel in
3:15
Speaker 1: a motorcycle had video of him going down his super
3:19
Speaker 1: secret holy built by his commode. Really, I mean a murder, Okay, Alexis,
3:26
Speaker 1: bring me up to date. Jeffrey Epstein was found dead
3:30
Speaker 1: in his cellth the Metropolitan Correctional Center. This, as you said,
3:34
Speaker 1: is where the top criminals in the whole country are held.
3:37
Speaker 1: The thing was though, every Alexis I think, Okay, check
3:42
Speaker 1: your ifb I just said, Isis al Qaeda, al Chapo
3:47
Speaker 1: from around the world are held here. They are monitored
3:52
Speaker 1: very carefully. They don't commit suicide. How did he commit suicide?
3:58
Speaker 1: And not this night? That's what you say. They're monitored
4:01
Speaker 1: very closely. This night, Jeffrey Epstein was not. So what
4:07
Speaker 1: police sources have said is that the two officers that
4:10
Speaker 1: were assigned to monitor him were asleep for three hours.
4:16
Speaker 1: They These were guards that were not in the pan alignment.
4:19
Speaker 1: Whoa wait, wait, wait, wait right there, I believe that
4:23
Speaker 1: to Jeff Cortez, a FBI special agent. You know, I'm
4:27
Speaker 1: on the side of law enforcement, okay, but falling asleep
4:31
Speaker 1: on your post, I could totally see that totally. They're overworked,
4:34
Speaker 1: they're under pay, they've worked night shifts, blah blah blah.
4:37
Speaker 1: But we're all overworked. Everybody on this panel is overworked.
4:41
Speaker 1: Alexa churest Chuck. She has a little boy and a
4:44
Speaker 1: husband and a house and of this and of that,
4:47
Speaker 1: and a full time job. You don't think she's tired.
4:50
Speaker 1: Hour to even know my name. This morning, I couldn't
4:53
Speaker 1: even remember what day it was. I was so tired.
4:55
Speaker 1: Of course, they're tired. I could totally see them falling asleep.
4:59
Speaker 1: You know. That's why you have things like musa next
5:03
Speaker 1: to jack you up to keep you awake. No, you're
5:05
Speaker 1: absolutely right, and it's something that you know. I've been
5:09
Speaker 1: through three law enforcement academies, and in both academies, complacency
5:14
Speaker 1: is what they drill into our heads. Is the root
5:17
Speaker 1: of you know, our biggest vulnerability, complacency kills. And in
5:22
Speaker 1: this case, you know, it's really hard to tell if
5:25
Speaker 1: whether or not they were awake, Jeffrey Epstein would still
5:27
Speaker 1: be alive. But sleeping through it certainly didn't help. But
5:30
Speaker 1: what is the likelihood Wendy Patrick and Jackie pointing this out.
5:34
Speaker 1: I can't take credit for it, Remember, Jackie, nobody likes
5:37
Speaker 1: and know it all. But that said Wendy, they both
5:40
Speaker 1: fall asleep at the same time. Yeah, with Epstein, who's
5:44
Speaker 1: already been either attacked or tried to commit suicide a
5:47
Speaker 1: couple of feet away, they both fall asleep at the
5:50
Speaker 1: same time and the camera malfunctions. Isn't that too much coincidence? Well,
5:56
Speaker 1: that is exactly why we're talking about as much as
5:58
Speaker 1: we are as we should. When we house inmates, we
6:02
Speaker 1: take a duty to protect them, sometimes in this case,
6:05
Speaker 1: from themselves, and that means we don't let things happen
6:09
Speaker 1: like have two guards that are overworked, or remember one
6:12
Speaker 1: of them was actually assigned that shouldn't have been. It
6:15
Speaker 1: was a substitute, a substitute watching the highest profile prisoner
6:20
Speaker 1: perhaps in the world at this point in time. Those
6:23
Speaker 1: are the kind of facts and circumstances that make this
6:26
Speaker 1: such a priority. And remember even the Attorney General bar
6:28
Speaker 1: is saying we're going to look into this, and I
6:30
Speaker 1: cannot wait. And I'm sure we'll be talking about it
6:32
Speaker 1: on the air with the same fannel. What they're going
6:35
Speaker 1: to find as to how this perfect storm was able
6:38
Speaker 1: to be put into effect that allowed Epstein to kill
6:41
Speaker 1: himself if in fact that's what happened, Well, Jesse's got
6:43
Speaker 1: Morgan Professor France at Shacksonville State University. I'm going to
6:46
Speaker 1: get into it with forensics in just a moment, because
6:48
Speaker 1: I got a lot of questions about that highwoid bone
6:51
Speaker 1: for Gallagher. But Jes Scott, I mean, I've never been
6:56
Speaker 1: a conspiracy theorist. You know why because in my experience
7:00
Speaker 1: executing for how long have I been prosecuting. I got
7:03
Speaker 1: a law school in nineteen eighty four. People can't keep
7:06
Speaker 1: their yap shut. That's why I always say there was
7:08
Speaker 1: no conspiracy of a cover up in a J. Simpson
7:11
Speaker 1: Cops had no conspiracy. By now, somebody would have sold
7:14
Speaker 1: a million dollar book and told the whole thing. Okay,
7:19
Speaker 1: the statute on that's probably passed. People cannot be quiet,
7:24
Speaker 1: do I think that Trump or Clinton had him killed. No,
7:30
Speaker 1: I don't. They may have wanted to, but no, I
7:33
Speaker 1: don't think that they did. I don't believe in conspiracies,
7:37
Speaker 1: but I'm not convinced this was a suicide. Joe Scott.
7:40
Speaker 1: But look at all of these circumstances, all the coincidences.
7:44
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and there's tons of a floating out there.
7:46
Speaker 1: For the past week, I've been doing nothing but entertaining
7:49
Speaker 1: phone calls from people that believe that there is a conspiracy.
7:54
Speaker 1: And listen, Nancy, I'm when it comes to investigations, I
7:59
Speaker 1: apply Akham Razor, and that philosophy holds that we look
8:02
Speaker 1: for the most simple, obvious thing that we can and
8:05
Speaker 1: then we work out from that. Do you realize how
8:08
Speaker 1: complex this would be, how complex and undertaking this is
8:13
Speaker 1: that a lot of people are putting forward relative to
8:16
Speaker 1: these conspiracies. I've had people telling me that he's not
8:18
Speaker 1: actually dead, that he's still wandering around out there somewhere,
8:23
Speaker 1: or that he arranged all of this so that he's
8:25
Speaker 1: of Krispy Kreme Donuts. I'm pretty sure that was him.
8:30
Speaker 1: And guess who was with him, Elvis. Hey, guys, it's
8:34
Speaker 1: all going to boil down in my mind to the forensics.
8:37
Speaker 1: And when I say I don't think there's a conspiracy,
8:40
Speaker 1: I don't mean there's some vast right wing or left
8:43
Speaker 1: wing conspiracy. But I do think there is a chance
8:47
Speaker 1: he was murdered. I think it's all going to boil
8:50
Speaker 1: down to one thing. The Highway bone crime stories with
9:04
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace for still awaiting the release of Jeffrey Epstein's
9:10
Speaker 1: official autopsy report from the medical Examiner. But the Washington Post,
9:14
Speaker 1: citing two people familiar with the findings, reports the autopsy
9:18
Speaker 1: shows multiple broken bones in his neck, including the hyoid
9:21
Speaker 1: bone near Epstein's Adam's apple. That break can occur in hangings,
9:26
Speaker 1: but is more common in those who die of strangulation.
9:30
Speaker 1: Remember the New York Post reports Epstein killed himself by
9:34
Speaker 1: tying a bedsheet around his neck to his jail cell
9:37
Speaker 1: bunk bed and then strangling himself by kneeling toward the floor.
9:41
Speaker 1: Hanging many times occurs in a prone position. You just
9:44
Speaker 1: simply need to get something around your neck, tie it
9:47
Speaker 1: to the bottom bunk, and just slowly slide off the
9:50
Speaker 1: bunk until you slowly pass out. You can be dead
9:53
Speaker 1: within ten minutes. You are hearing Brian yanis there at
9:56
Speaker 1: Fox Knees with Jack Johnson, prison consultant, but with me
10:01
Speaker 1: right now is the medical examiner for the State of Florida,
10:04
Speaker 1: doctor Tim Gallagher. Talk to me, Doctor Gallagher about the
10:10
Speaker 1: highoid bone. Well, the highoid bone is a small bone
10:13
Speaker 1: in the front of your neck. It's just above the
10:15
Speaker 1: atoms apple and it does not support any weight of
10:19
Speaker 1: the neck. It's just basically a point of contact for
10:22
Speaker 1: the muscles of the tongue, so it allows the tongue
10:25
Speaker 1: and the muscles around it to operate. Okay, you know,
10:29
Speaker 1: I love you, doctor Gallager, but I don't know anything
10:31
Speaker 1: you just said because I was too busy trying to
10:33
Speaker 1: find an atom's apple. Now hold on, wait, wait, wait
10:35
Speaker 1: just a moment. You know, I thought the highoid bone
10:39
Speaker 1: was just below the atoms apple, just above it. Actually,
10:43
Speaker 1: are you sure? Could you please consult your So I'm
10:48
Speaker 1: about two inches off, so just above your atoms apple,
10:56
Speaker 1: there's a bone in your neck, right, So why can't
10:59
Speaker 1: I feel it? Because it's a very thin bone, it's
11:02
Speaker 1: a very flexible bone, and it's surrounded by a lot
11:05
Speaker 1: of soft tissue, so it's very difficult to actually feel it.
11:09
Speaker 1: But it's there on X ray and it's there in
11:11
Speaker 1: real life. Why with a highoid bone make a difference
11:15
Speaker 1: in this case, because he had several snaps in his neck,
11:19
Speaker 1: which I find very disturbing. Well, you know, just two things,
11:24
Speaker 1: two points to make, I would guess, is that the
11:27
Speaker 1: actual report from the medical examiner is pending, and it's
11:31
Speaker 1: unusual to release any information from the autopsy during a
11:35
Speaker 1: pending report. You know, So are you suggesting that his
11:40
Speaker 1: neck was not snapped in several places? Well, I would
11:42
Speaker 1: say it's curious as to how these details got released
11:45
Speaker 1: to the public on a pending report. But be that
11:49
Speaker 1: as it may. There was also a report of him
11:53
Speaker 1: having a neck injury two weeks prior. So, if in
11:57
Speaker 1: fact the bone is broken, when was it broke and
12:00
Speaker 1: was it broken two weeks ago during the alleged injury
12:06
Speaker 1: in his cell or is this a fresh break? So
12:08
Speaker 1: the medical examines report can help elucidate that. Let's go
12:13
Speaker 1: with fresh break. Let's analyze that first, and I'm going
12:17
Speaker 1: to go with the reports that we are getting out
12:20
Speaker 1: of Washington Post that there were several snaps in the
12:24
Speaker 1: neck and that the highoid bone was broken. What does
12:29
Speaker 1: that say to you, well, it says a few things.
12:35
Speaker 1: Number one, I would like to know where the bedsheet
12:38
Speaker 1: or the alleged bedsheet was around his neck when they
12:41
Speaker 1: found him. Was it high up on the neck, was
12:43
Speaker 1: it above the level of the highoid bone, Was it
12:45
Speaker 1: below the level of the hyoid bone, or was it
12:49
Speaker 1: at the level of the bone. So where was this
12:52
Speaker 1: bed sheet? And then this bed sheet would have to
12:54
Speaker 1: have left a mark, a very deep mark in the
12:57
Speaker 1: muscles of the neck, So it would be very easy
13:00
Speaker 1: to determine where the bedshee came across his neck. So
13:06
Speaker 1: it it came across his neck at the level of
13:07
Speaker 1: the hyoid bone, and the high boneless fractured then yet
13:11
Speaker 1: that is suspicious for suicide. Not fractured, not fractured, it
13:15
Speaker 1: was broken and in lay persons, I mean, I don't
13:20
Speaker 1: know if that's fracture and break is the same to you,
13:23
Speaker 1: but to me, I think they're different. But I don't understand.
13:28
Speaker 1: And the suffocations, asphyxiations, strangling deaths that I prosecuted, and
13:34
Speaker 1: there have been many, they did not necessarily involve breaking
13:40
Speaker 1: of the bones. Now we know that he had particular hemorrhaging,
13:44
Speaker 1: which is very simply that's autopsy talk for the blood
13:50
Speaker 1: vessels in your eyes pop because your air supply is
13:54
Speaker 1: cut off. But that could be from suicide or murder.
14:00
Speaker 1: That means nothing to me. What does mean something to
14:03
Speaker 1: me is that his neck had been broken in several places,
14:09
Speaker 1: including the highoid bone. That means something to me because
14:13
Speaker 1: in the strangulations the homicides are prosecuted. I see very
14:18
Speaker 1: big different in homicide versus suicide suicide. I don't believe
14:23
Speaker 1: I've ever seen a broken bone in the neck, much
14:27
Speaker 1: less several Gallagher. That is true in my practice. Unfortunately,
14:32
Speaker 1: have done hundreds, maybe pushing up to a thousand autopsies
14:36
Speaker 1: on people who have hanged themselves or who have died
14:40
Speaker 1: of asphyxiation, and those who have hung themselves from a ligature.
14:47
Speaker 1: I can't recall a single incident, maybe one or two
14:50
Speaker 1: in the distant past, you know, where I found a
14:53
Speaker 1: fractured highoid bone. But in cases where somebody was strangled
14:57
Speaker 1: manually a documented cases was but he was strangled manually,
15:01
Speaker 1: I have found a fractured highoid bone, a freshly fractured
15:04
Speaker 1: or freshly broken highoid bone. You know, guys, you know
15:08
Speaker 1: when I listened to a medical examiner. It's like playing
15:11
Speaker 1: an orchestral symphony. I could listen to him all day long.
15:16
Speaker 1: This is doctor Tim Gallagher, a medical examiner for the
15:18
Speaker 1: State of Florida. On the other hand, just like opera,
15:21
Speaker 1: they're speaking in Italian. What are they saying, Joe gott
15:25
Speaker 1: break it down, plays and in regular people talk. Remember
15:30
Speaker 1: regular people talk. Go ahead, I think doctor gallagherson a
15:33
Speaker 1: fine job, and yes he did, but break it down again.
15:37
Speaker 1: I will break it down and understand that the highoid
15:41
Speaker 1: is so highly positioned. And when I say hi, just
15:45
Speaker 1: remember it's more proximal, or closer to the jaw than
15:49
Speaker 1: it is to the chest. Okay, so it's and it's
15:52
Speaker 1: deeply seated in the neck, as doctor Gallagher pointed out,
15:55
Speaker 1: it's surrounded by all manner of soft tissue. You know,
15:59
Speaker 1: it's only bone in the body that doesn't actually articulate
16:02
Speaker 1: with another bone. It's free floating. It anchors our tongue
16:06
Speaker 1: in place. Did I not just tell you regular people talk?
16:09
Speaker 1: Why did you say it's not articulating to another bone?
16:12
Speaker 1: Do you say things like that? I don't know how
16:15
Speaker 1: your marriage has survived. You need to work on communication. Okay,
16:19
Speaker 1: all right, you've got a beautiful wife. Don't mess it
16:22
Speaker 1: up by talking. Like a bone articulated what it is.
16:26
Speaker 1: It is seated in a very in an area that
16:29
Speaker 1: is just surrounded by soft tissue. That means the bone itself,
16:35
Speaker 1: it's bird like in shape. It's not connected to any
16:39
Speaker 1: other bone. It's just kind of free floating in there,
16:41
Speaker 1: and it serves a single purpose of anchoring our tongue,
16:46
Speaker 1: you know, dove telling what doctor Gallagher had said, it's
16:50
Speaker 1: it's so deep in there that it takes a tremendous
16:55
Speaker 1: amount of force to break this. I think that in
16:58
Speaker 1: my experience of working for The Corner in New Orleans
17:01
Speaker 1: and for the Emmy in Atlanta, that I worked other
17:03
Speaker 1: than a really bizarre car accident where guys next slammed
17:08
Speaker 1: into a steering wheel in a nineteen seventy four Pontiac
17:12
Speaker 1: that were not associated with some type of manual strangulation.
17:17
Speaker 1: Probably if you go back in time when we still
17:20
Speaker 1: did judicial hangings where guys would drop through a trap
17:24
Speaker 1: door and a gallows, I could see the howay would
17:26
Speaker 1: being fractured like that. But let's keep in mind Nancy
17:30
Speaker 1: Epstein was in this jail cell with a bunk and
17:35
Speaker 1: that's what he was supported off of the only thing
17:38
Speaker 1: that I can think of, the only thing that I
17:40
Speaker 1: can think of relative to that would generate this kind
17:45
Speaker 1: of forces if he in some way stood on the
17:47
Speaker 1: bunk and jumped off. But still, that's that's that's kind
17:51
Speaker 1: of that, that's kind of running far afield here. I think, Hi, guys,
18:00
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace here. I remember every night before I would
18:04
Speaker 1: go to work at CNN hill In, I would bathe
18:09
Speaker 1: the twins and that was a special time for me. Anyway.
18:13
Speaker 1: I would teach them their ABC's they're one two threes.
18:16
Speaker 1: Lucy would only eat dinner in the bathtub. I defeat
18:19
Speaker 1: her dinner in the bathtub. I would give her one
18:23
Speaker 1: full hour in John David one full hour that I
18:27
Speaker 1: would actually go to work, so king wet. It was
18:31
Speaker 1: one of the happiest times of my life. And I
18:34
Speaker 1: guess that's why I gravitated to Emily Mason. Emily Mason
18:40
Speaker 1: gorgeous young professor at a local college, Swainsburg, Georgia, East
18:46
Speaker 1: George College. I traveled to Swainsborough to investigate her death,
18:53
Speaker 1: and this is what I learned. Emily was bathing her
18:56
Speaker 1: two little girls in the tub when someone came into
19:00
Speaker 1: her home chased her from room to room. The last
19:06
Speaker 1: thing her little girls ever heard from their mother was
19:10
Speaker 1: Mommy running, screaming for her life. Those are their vivid
19:18
Speaker 1: last memories of Mommy. She was brutally murdered. And you
19:24
Speaker 1: may ask where was her husband during all this? While
19:27
Speaker 1: her husband, also a professor at East Georgia College PE
19:33
Speaker 1: professor a PE coach, happened to be gone. He just
19:38
Speaker 1: happened to leave for a local Walmart or home depot
19:41
Speaker 1: or lows and in that short window of time he
19:44
Speaker 1: comes home to find his wife dead in the home.
19:50
Speaker 1: The children woman's non verbal could hardly describe a thing
19:56
Speaker 1: what happened to Emily Mason. Her story really has touched me,
20:04
Speaker 1: the mystery surrounding the death, the brutal death of this
20:08
Speaker 1: young mom, Emily Mason. This Saturday, we will be facebooking, instagramming,
20:14
Speaker 1: and tweeting live throughout the episode This Saturday. Oxygen, August seventeen,
20:22
Speaker 1: six p m Eastern, five Central. Please join us, Thanks friend.
20:33
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Multimillionaire was supposed to have
20:38
Speaker 1: been checked by guards every thirty minutes, but that procedure
20:42
Speaker 1: was not being followed the night before he was found,
20:44
Speaker 1: according to The New York Times, which also reported the
20:47
Speaker 1: facility had transferred his cell maid and allowed Epstein to
20:51
Speaker 1: be housed alone. The report says Epstein had been put
20:55
Speaker 1: on suicide watch after staff found him semi conscious in
20:58
Speaker 1: his cell just over two weeks ago in an apparent
21:01
Speaker 1: suicide attempt, but recently he was taken off it. Sources
21:05
Speaker 1: at the jail tell CBS News they often rely on
21:08
Speaker 1: certain inmates to assist guards in monitoring other inmates due
21:12
Speaker 1: to a lack of manpower. According to those sources, Epstein
21:16
Speaker 1: had told authorities he feared powerful people might be trying
21:19
Speaker 1: to prevent him from cooperating with authorities. You were hearing
21:23
Speaker 1: our friend at wl NYTV. That's Rena Roy. Now take
21:28
Speaker 1: a listen to my longtime friend from Court TV at
21:30
Speaker 1: CBS NEWSS. Also that have come out that I find,
21:34
Speaker 1: frankly very disturbing was the condition of how he was
21:39
Speaker 1: monitored at the MCC, which is the Metropolitan Correctional Center
21:44
Speaker 1: on the Shoe, as we call it, the special housing
21:47
Speaker 1: unit where the most high profile, the most notorious criminals
21:52
Speaker 1: or people facing a possible prosecution. Our house al CHAPO
21:58
Speaker 1: was on that floor. Paul Manafort is still on that floor.
22:03
Speaker 1: And in fact, if I were Paul Manafort right now,
22:05
Speaker 1: I would not be very comfortable because you have guards,
22:10
Speaker 1: one of them, one of whom was really not a
22:12
Speaker 1: correctional officer at that point. Their excuses they were very understaffed,
22:17
Speaker 1: they were working multiple overtimes, and so what that tests
22:21
Speaker 1: me is they were asleep. Well, I agree with Ricky Gleeman,
22:24
Speaker 1: and that practically never happens. I want you to also
22:28
Speaker 1: listen to what Jessica Layton at CBS two News has
22:33
Speaker 1: to say. The Attorney General promised a thorough investigation, and
22:36
Speaker 1: this is really just the tip of the fallout from
22:38
Speaker 1: this apparent jail cell suicide. The Department of Justice confirming
22:42
Speaker 1: late this afternoon the two guards who were supposed to
22:44
Speaker 1: be keeping a close watch on Jeffrey Epstein have been
22:47
Speaker 1: placed on leave and the warden of the Metropolitan Correctional
22:51
Speaker 1: Center has been reassigned, at least temporarily. All this after
22:55
Speaker 1: what Attorney General William Barr described as serious irregularities at
22:58
Speaker 1: the Federal Detention Center where Epstein died in Lower Manhattan's Saturday.
23:02
Speaker 1: Those guards were supposed to be checking on the multi
23:05
Speaker 1: millionaire in mate every thirty minutes and reportedly hadn't done
23:09
Speaker 1: so for hours now. Remember, Epstein had already tried to
23:12
Speaker 1: take his own life weeks earlier, but had since been
23:15
Speaker 1: taken off twenty four seven suicide Watch again. Tonight, two
23:19
Speaker 1: guards had been placed on leave, the warden at mcc reassigned.
23:23
Speaker 1: Likely more followed to follow. Right now, I am waiting
23:27
Speaker 1: with bated breath for the full autopsy to be released because,
23:31
Speaker 1: like many medical examiners, I'm want to see what else
23:34
Speaker 1: it reveals. Was there bruising anywhere else on the body
23:38
Speaker 1: to show Epstein had been attacked. Now the autopsy is
23:41
Speaker 1: being performed by doctor Barbara Sampson, the chief medical examiner
23:44
Speaker 1: in New York, but under the watchful eye of doctor
23:48
Speaker 1: Michael Boden. I know Boden very well, used to work
23:51
Speaker 1: with his wife, Linda Kenney. She was an analyst and
23:55
Speaker 1: legal analyst, well known defense lawyer. Boden. I don't always
24:00
Speaker 1: agree with him, but he's brilliant. Alexis Ruschak, can we
24:05
Speaker 1: talk about two plus two equals four? Because before I
24:09
Speaker 1: go back to Gallagher or and Joe Scott Morgan for
24:12
Speaker 1: autopsy issues alexis the camera malfunctioned Are you kidding me?
24:20
Speaker 1: And one of the most highly a supermax. They have
24:24
Speaker 1: a malfunctioning camera. I mean, this is she we're talking
24:28
Speaker 1: about where there is a special housing unit. And I
24:33
Speaker 1: know he had been off suicide Watch, which was a
24:36
Speaker 1: huge mistake. But under suicide Watch, your sheets are made
24:40
Speaker 1: of paper, so this type of incident doesn't take place.
24:44
Speaker 1: But I want to get back to malfunctioning cameras and
24:49
Speaker 1: sales where El Chapo was cap Are you kidding me? Well,
24:53
Speaker 1: that's what makes this all so suspicious, that the cameras
24:56
Speaker 1: were not functioning, and also the fact that this guy radar.
25:00
Speaker 1: We were the first to report that he attempted suicide
25:02
Speaker 1: a few weeks ago, and then just less than two
25:05
Speaker 1: weeks later, he convinces the prison that he doesn't need
25:09
Speaker 1: it anymore. He spends the entire day with his attorneys,
25:13
Speaker 1: and he's paying them to come in, so he isn't
25:15
Speaker 1: spending any time in his jail. So and he is
25:19
Speaker 1: known all of a sudden, they're saying, Oh, he's happy,
25:21
Speaker 1: he's go lucky, he's smiling, nothing's wrong with him. This
25:23
Speaker 1: guy evaded punishment for decades. And then all of a
25:27
Speaker 1: sudden is able to con people into thinking that he
25:31
Speaker 1: was absolutely fine again. But yes, you're right, the cameras malfunctioning.
25:34
Speaker 1: That's what people are saying. This is a completely non
25:37
Speaker 1: working prison, and they're saying maybe it's underfunded. I don't
25:41
Speaker 1: know the reasons, but a guard that isn't normally, they
25:43
Speaker 1: are cameras that aren't working, and then a policy that
25:45
Speaker 1: completely fail. You're right, why did he have a bed sheet?
25:49
Speaker 1: And they're saying that he was found kneeling down, so
25:53
Speaker 1: that he kneeled and how can that force possibly cause
25:58
Speaker 1: it down? Well, Commune Robin Williams, as I recall, Wendy
26:03
Speaker 1: Patrick tie the necktie to a door knob and sat
26:08
Speaker 1: or kneeled and then just went forward as I recall,
26:14
Speaker 1: and I imagine that's what they are claiming happened to Epstein. Wendy.
26:19
Speaker 1: Is that what appward? Robin Williams, Well, you know, as
26:22
Speaker 1: are two medical experts on the panel have been explaining
26:25
Speaker 1: there are several ways it could have happened. One thing
26:28
Speaker 1: I would have thought is maybe there wasn't a camera
26:30
Speaker 1: pointed at him, maybe he wasn't checked on, But had
26:32
Speaker 1: he jumped off his bunk and done it that way,
26:35
Speaker 1: The noise might have been something that at the very
26:38
Speaker 1: least might have brought guards at least running, or at
26:40
Speaker 1: least gotten somebody's attention in order to save his life,
26:43
Speaker 1: or at least at least gotten there before it was
26:46
Speaker 1: too late. What we're operating on now, and this is
26:48
Speaker 1: so frustrating in the day and age in which we live,
26:50
Speaker 1: is sources familiar with the autopsy results. Can you imagine
26:54
Speaker 1: if the autopsy finally comes out and it is so
26:57
Speaker 1: much more, so much easier to understand stand because these
27:01
Speaker 1: sources perhaps aren't completely briefed on it. Because the next
27:04
Speaker 1: tie question Nancy and some of the other things that
27:06
Speaker 1: we've seen over the years doesn't really fit with the
27:08
Speaker 1: fact pattern that we have here with mister Epstein. So
27:11
Speaker 1: there has to be more to the story and I
27:13
Speaker 1: cannot wait to find a little bit more details to
27:16
Speaker 1: figure out cameras aside, maybe they didn't check on them,
27:19
Speaker 1: but how did he accomplish it in a facility that
27:22
Speaker 1: is supposed to be suicide proof, and all our facilities
27:25
Speaker 1: are supposed to be suicide proof. You're not supposed to
27:27
Speaker 1: be able to easily kill yourself well, you're right about that, Wendy,
27:31
Speaker 1: because we have determined that there has only been one
27:35
Speaker 1: successful suicide in that past forty years that Manhattan Correctional Center,
27:41
Speaker 1: much less at Shoe Special Housing Unit. And I want
27:44
Speaker 1: to go to Jeff Cortes about this. The coincidences, Okay,
27:50
Speaker 1: multiple break Stepstin's neck, Okay, that that typically does not
27:55
Speaker 1: happen in a suicide. This guy was leaning Epstein, the
27:59
Speaker 1: multi million their child predator, apparently their theory is, was
28:03
Speaker 1: leaning on his knees and just leaned forward. That is
28:06
Speaker 1: not enough to cause multiple snaps to your neck. Period.
28:11
Speaker 1: The cameras not working, malfunctioning, the guards happening to be
28:16
Speaker 1: asleep for three hours. Both of them happened to get
28:20
Speaker 1: the drowsies at the same time. Then we learned Epstein
28:24
Speaker 1: was in quote great spirits just before his death and
28:28
Speaker 1: actually believed he was going to be billed out to
28:31
Speaker 1: cooperate with the Feds. He had met for twelve hours
28:35
Speaker 1: starting at eight am with his lawyers. He had not
28:39
Speaker 1: been in a cell and was convinced they would win
28:42
Speaker 1: an appeal to get him out on bell. He was
28:45
Speaker 1: planning to cooperate and bring down powerful men in our
28:50
Speaker 1: country and beyond. There's just no other cell mates saw
28:56
Speaker 1: what was happening. It's just Cortesi. You're the former FPI
29:02
Speaker 1: special agent. This just doesn't feel right to me. It
29:07
Speaker 1: just doesn't add up. Yeah, Nancy, I think, just as
29:10
Speaker 1: a rule of thumb, if it if it doesn't feel right,
29:12
Speaker 1: it's probably because something's not right. And this particular incident
29:19
Speaker 1: is riddled with red flags and you pointed them out
29:22
Speaker 1: with the camera's not working, the sleeping guards, so forth
29:25
Speaker 1: and so on. I mean, Jeffrey Epstein was a prime
29:27
Speaker 1: candidate for taking his life, an extremely wealthy peedo facing prison,
29:31
Speaker 1: and we all know that life as a sex crimes
29:36
Speaker 1: convict is not pleasant in prison, so the future was
29:40
Speaker 1: not right for him. Why he was not in a
29:42
Speaker 1: single cell as a huge, huge question mark the the Ultimately,
29:48
Speaker 1: I think the FBI will be looking at this as
29:52
Speaker 1: a possible corruption case, you know, is it a breakdown
29:55
Speaker 1: protocol or something else, whether suicide or piracy murder. The
30:01
Speaker 1: guards here are going to be critical to that investigation.
30:13
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, I mean, see Grace, this
30:18
Speaker 1: is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us, guys.
30:21
Speaker 1: Before we get back to Epstein, Mayhee rotten Hill. I
30:25
Speaker 1: want to thank our friends Jeff Hurley and Craig Stevens
30:29
Speaker 1: at w r a W news Radio It's thirteen to
30:32
Speaker 1: forty for adding crime stories to their lineup. If you
30:36
Speaker 1: are in Ready, Pennsylvania, please tune in to w r
30:41
Speaker 1: a W Jeff and Craig. It's great to be with you.
30:47
Speaker 1: And now to Epstein. YEFFEI raid on the mansion, uncovered
30:51
Speaker 1: sex toys, a life sized female doll hanging from a chandelier,
30:55
Speaker 1: and hundreds of lewd photos. Bill Cosby, who is now
30:59
Speaker 1: serving three to ten years in prison for sexual assault,
31:02
Speaker 1: used to live in a townhouse directly opposite the mansion.
31:05
Speaker 1: These are pages from Epstein's Little Black Book. They were
31:08
Speaker 1: first obtained by the website Gawker. They showed numerous entries
31:12
Speaker 1: for the rich and famous Donald Trump, actor Alec Baldwin,
31:15
Speaker 1: and singer Courtney Love. Page after page are headlined massage Paris,
31:20
Speaker 1: Massage UK, Massage Florida. Below the cities a list of
31:24
Speaker 1: first names with contact numbers. There are twenty one email
31:28
Speaker 1: addresses and contact numbers in the book for former President
31:31
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton, and he's speaking out today. President Clinton knows
31:35
Speaker 1: nothing about the terrible crimes Jeffrey Epstein is charged with
31:38
Speaker 1: in New York. A statement says. In the statement, Clinton
31:41
Speaker 1: acknowledges he flew four times on Epstein's private jet in
31:45
Speaker 1: two thousand and two and two thousand and three. You're
31:47
Speaker 1: hearing our friends and inside edition what the FBI found
31:50
Speaker 1: in Epstein's Manhattan apartment. It's that little black book full
31:54
Speaker 1: of names of rich and powerful people he could clearly
31:57
Speaker 1: bring down. Alexis terreschak or Online dot Com investigative reporter.
32:01
Speaker 1: I think we all know what massage means. I think
32:04
Speaker 1: we do. I don't think that these massagies were what
32:09
Speaker 1: they were, and in fact, these are under each girls
32:11
Speaker 1: are victims. These are teenage girls. They're not eighteen nineteen
32:14
Speaker 1: year old teenagers either. These are thirteen, fourteen, and fifteen
32:17
Speaker 1: year old girls who have come forward and said that
32:19
Speaker 1: they were victims of Epstein's This is a terrible, terrible
32:23
Speaker 1: assault that took place by this man who was finally
32:27
Speaker 1: called and was maybe finally going to have justice against
32:31
Speaker 1: him for these victims, and then this untimely death. And
32:34
Speaker 1: his victims are furious about this. They say that they
32:38
Speaker 1: find this so suspicious that when they were finally making
32:40
Speaker 1: headway that he has now died, but they still want
32:44
Speaker 1: to go forward with their cases because they feel like
32:47
Speaker 1: he must be held responsible, his estate must be held responsible. Yes,
32:50
Speaker 1: quite the coincidence that before he can name names and
32:54
Speaker 1: cooperate with the fans, he ends up dead. To doctor
32:58
Speaker 1: Tim Gallagher or the medical examiner for the State of Florida,
33:02
Speaker 1: Doctor Gallagher, there was a case of a teen boy,
33:04
Speaker 1: Ronnie White, accused of killing a cop. He died in
33:08
Speaker 1: a Maryland prison cell apparent suicide. Cause of death changed
33:12
Speaker 1: a homicide two days later when the autopsy revealed his
33:16
Speaker 1: higoid bone was broken. That's why I keep talking about
33:20
Speaker 1: it and all of the cases I've ever investigated or
33:25
Speaker 1: proceeded or covered. You don't see three snaps in the
33:31
Speaker 1: neck and a broken highoid bone on a suicide. I
33:37
Speaker 1: don't know how to make that anymore clear or simple.
33:41
Speaker 1: That is unheard of, especially doctor Gallagher. If he committed
33:46
Speaker 1: suicide by use of a sheet, which is not a
33:51
Speaker 1: harsh ligature such as a rope, using a sheet tied
33:58
Speaker 1: to a bed and then he leans forward, that would
34:02
Speaker 1: not snap multiple bones in your neck. Gallagher, Certainly it
34:05
Speaker 1: would not, you know, And just one point to make
34:09
Speaker 1: is that it really takes about twelve pounds of pressure
34:12
Speaker 1: across the neck to commit suicide. So twelve pounds of
34:17
Speaker 1: pressure will nowhere nearly break any bone in your body,
34:22
Speaker 1: let alone your highoid bone and several other bones in
34:24
Speaker 1: your neck. So him breaking the bones in his neck
34:28
Speaker 1: via the by the way that they claim it's very,
34:33
Speaker 1: very skeptical, I doubt highly. As a matter of fact,
34:36
Speaker 1: I would categorically say no, it is impossible for the
34:40
Speaker 1: higher bone to break during a strangulation as described by
34:46
Speaker 1: the report, even leaning forward with the shoot around his neck.
34:49
Speaker 1: But then added, according to the Washington Post, additional bones broken,
34:53
Speaker 1: doctor Gallagher, additional bones in the neck broken. I just
34:57
Speaker 1: I don't see it. That would Yeah, that would be
34:59
Speaker 1: a very hard sell. And the jump the theory of
35:02
Speaker 1: jumping off the bed, I'm looking at a mock up
35:05
Speaker 1: of his cell right now. It's not a bunk bed.
35:08
Speaker 1: He's not up on top of something to jump down from.
35:13
Speaker 1: And even if he was, if he jumped down, he
35:16
Speaker 1: could stand up. The bunk bed is not that tall,
35:20
Speaker 1: so I don't see him jumping down. And my point
35:23
Speaker 1: with that, doctor Gallagher, is if you could jump off
35:26
Speaker 1: something with a sheet around your neck, you might get
35:30
Speaker 1: that velocity, that force that could snap a bone, but
35:34
Speaker 1: he doesn't have that ability. It's just all the coincidences together.
35:39
Speaker 1: And you know what's really irritating Wendy Patrick top it
35:42
Speaker 1: all off, is pseudo intellectuals looking down their nose at
35:47
Speaker 1: people just asking simple questions like this, claiming it's a wild,
35:53
Speaker 1: vast conspiracy theory. It's not. It's just that the theory
35:57
Speaker 1: that someone killed him is very Yeah, it's plausible. The
36:02
Speaker 1: circumstances of what makes it unlikely, and that's why it worked.
36:05
Speaker 1: That's why it's a fascinating subject. In this day and
36:08
Speaker 1: age where we everything we do is on camera. The
36:11
Speaker 1: gap in any monitoring happens to surround the most high
36:14
Speaker 1: profile federal prisoner that we had at the time. So
36:16
Speaker 1: it's implausible when you talk about looking at the medical
36:19
Speaker 1: examiner's report and listening to the experts on our panel,
36:22
Speaker 1: and I've learned a lodge this from this last hour.
36:24
Speaker 1: Listening to all of it takes twelve pounds of pressure.
36:27
Speaker 1: Can you imagine what this would look like in front
36:28
Speaker 1: of a jury, Nancy. There would be demonstrations, there would
36:31
Speaker 1: be models, there would be all these ways that were
36:33
Speaker 1: put forth and then it's a circumstantial circumstantial evidence, or
36:37
Speaker 1: in this case, the lack thereof that lends this corroberation
36:41
Speaker 1: that we would need to show that it was murder,
36:43
Speaker 1: even though medically, of what I'm hearing is that seems
36:46
Speaker 1: to be the more likely explanation for these breaks. Well.
36:49
Speaker 1: Another issue is that he was taken off suicide Watch
36:54
Speaker 1: buy present officials, and that would include a shrink that
36:58
Speaker 1: would speak to him, analyze him, determined if he was
37:03
Speaker 1: ready to come off suicide Watch, and his own lawyers
37:07
Speaker 1: weighed in that he was ready. Take a listen to
37:11
Speaker 1: doctor Mark Siegel. The other suicide watch situation, which is
37:16
Speaker 1: shocking to me as a physician who has dealt with
37:18
Speaker 1: severely depressed and suicidal patients. Six days on a suicide watch,
37:22
Speaker 1: prison officials reportedly removed at prison officials guided by who
37:27
Speaker 1: what self respecting psychiatrist would say, Okay, he's no longer suicidal.
37:31
Speaker 1: There was evidence on July twenty third that he may
37:33
Speaker 1: have done something to his neck or someone did right.
37:36
Speaker 1: Then suddenly six days later, he waves his hand, says
37:38
Speaker 1: he's fine, and he's put in an area where ultimately
37:41
Speaker 1: he's unobserved and listen to Fox News Brian Yanis NEWDJ
37:46
Speaker 1: statistics reportedly show ten out of the eighteen guards working
37:49
Speaker 1: at the Metropolitan Correctional Center, we're working overtime. This is
37:53
Speaker 1: important because there's an investigation now into whether the two
37:56
Speaker 1: guards assigned to watch Epstein's unit fell asleep. The union
38:00
Speaker 1: representing the guards has said Epstein's death is a result
38:03
Speaker 1: of understaffing. Meanwhile, the attention now turns toward Epstein's inner circle,
38:08
Speaker 1: particularly his former girlfriend, British socialite Gislin Maxwell. Maxwell has
38:13
Speaker 1: been identified by multiple Epstein accusers as being his primary
38:17
Speaker 1: co conspirator, recruiting and cohersing underage girls to have sex
38:21
Speaker 1: with Epstein. Maxwell's whereabouts are unknown, but yesterday The Daily
38:25
Speaker 1: Mail reported she was living with millionaire tech CEO Seth
38:28
Speaker 1: Borgerson and a man should outside of Boston. We spoke
38:31
Speaker 1: to Borgerson over the phone while he was on a
38:33
Speaker 1: plane taking off for Europe. He denied the report Sandras,
38:37
Speaker 1: saying he can't remember the last time he saw her. Wow,
38:40
Speaker 1: everybody seems to forget so much. In this case. The
38:43
Speaker 1: guards forgot to check Epstein, they forgot to stay away
38:46
Speaker 1: they forgot they paper sheets. Yeah, we'll see what happens
38:50
Speaker 1: for that autopsy comes out. As for where is Elaine Maxwell,
38:54
Speaker 1: She was just spotted in an in and out Burger
38:56
Speaker 1: stand scarfing down at burger. She's not worried, as just
39:00
Speaker 1: as sun falls. Nancy Grace climbs the story, signing off
39:03
Speaker 1: goodbye friend,