Latest / QUESTION EVERYTHING / Lindsay Peoples Wagner: Changing The Fashion Industry + Pursuing A Career Rooted in Purpose

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Lindsay Peoples Wagner: Changing The Fashion Industry + Pursuing A Career Rooted in Purpose · QUESTION EVERYTHING

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Speaker 2: Big things happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever,
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Speaker 2: pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe and each week my guests
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Speaker 2: and I have conversations that put a new spin on pretty.
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Speaker 2: This is pretty smart. Lindsey People's Wagner is helping give
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Speaker 2: the fashion industry a much needed wake up call, and
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Speaker 2: she's doing it with style. A Wisconsin native, Lindsay worked
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Speaker 2: her way up from intern to assistant, then executive, becoming
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Speaker 2: the editor in chief of teen Vogue, which made her
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Speaker 2: the youngest editor in chief in Conde Nast's history. She
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Speaker 2: worked on publications and summits with Serena Williams Lil nas
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Speaker 2: Selena Gomez Tracy Ellis ross Now. She's currently the editor
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Speaker 2: in chief of New York Magazine's fashion vertical, The Cut.
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Speaker 2: She's also the co founder of the Black and Fashion Council.
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Speaker 2: Lindsay has made it her mission to open the door
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Speaker 2: wide to the notoriously closed door fashion industry, giving others
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Speaker 2: the same chances that helped her succeed. She's young, influential, smart,
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Speaker 2: flowing with purpose and ideas. So Lindsay, I'm a Badger.
2:05
Speaker 2: I spent all of my summers in Eagle River and Monocua, Wisconsin.
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Speaker 3: I didn't know that I.
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Speaker 2: Spent half my life in that state. You're a Wisconsin
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Speaker 2: I love the state so much, but it is not
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Speaker 2: known for its fashion sense. It is not How does
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Speaker 2: a gal from Wisconsin end up in the teen Vogue closet?
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Speaker 2: Where did all of your Chikh style come from?
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Speaker 4: I mean, over time, but I think, honestly, like a
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Speaker 4: lot of people, you watch other people do it and
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Speaker 4: you're like, wait, how did they do it?
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Speaker 3: I was obsessed with fashion at a really young age.
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Speaker 4: But I also I went to private school for elementary
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Speaker 4: and middle school, so I think part of it was
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Speaker 4: also that I was like so excited to wear regular
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Speaker 4: clothes in front of other people, like on the weekends.
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Speaker 4: When I got to high school, I just remember looking
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Speaker 4: through all these catalogs Delia's, and like the whole thing
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Speaker 4: was just like such a big deal to me.
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Speaker 3: And finally I can get dressed.
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Speaker 4: And it was, you know, a different side of me
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Speaker 4: that you know, allotted for some type of creativity, but
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Speaker 4: also just where I didn't feel inhibited and I felt
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Speaker 4: like truly myself and I felt like I could just
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Speaker 4: express different parts of my being that I that I
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Speaker 4: couldn't just like in a classroom or where.
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Speaker 3: I was in Wisconsin.
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Speaker 4: I loved like living single, and I loved sex and
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Speaker 4: the city, and I loved girlfriends, and a lot of
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Speaker 4: those shows of fashion is also so good, and so
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Speaker 4: I just I mean, growing up, my walls in my
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Speaker 4: bedroom were covered in magazine clippings and I would print out, like,
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Speaker 4: you know, people's outfits that I liked, the different people
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Speaker 4: that I was obsessed with, and so that really it
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Speaker 4: really was a dream for a very long time.
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Speaker 3: It wasn't something though that I thought I would end
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Speaker 3: up doing.
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Speaker 2: Was your mom into fashion?
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Speaker 4: She was, and my grandmother was really heavily, and my
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Speaker 4: grandmother worked at a steal factory during the day and
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Speaker 4: then she would make her own clothes at night.
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Speaker 3: And she was a person that actually introduced me to fashion.
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Speaker 4: She would watch me during a lot of the summers
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Speaker 4: growing up, and she would take me to this senior
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Speaker 4: citizen center and we would make different clothes and pillows
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Speaker 4: and rugs and we would just spend the day like
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Speaker 4: sewing and chatting, and it was it was the best time,
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Speaker 4: and I loved it. And I think a lot of
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Speaker 4: it was, you know, little breadcrumbs of it happening over
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Speaker 4: and throughout my childhood and just planting.
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Speaker 2: That seed that makes it sound like clothes mean more
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Speaker 2: than just clothes to you.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean fashion is not just to me is
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Speaker 4: fashion is not just for the sake of clothing. And
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Speaker 4: I think, I mean, you can tell that in the
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Speaker 4: work that I do like it. I don't It's not
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Speaker 4: just about oh, you get to wear this brand, or
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Speaker 4: you can afford to wear this, or just like fashion
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Speaker 4: for the sake of you know, whatever. I think people
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Speaker 4: think it is on the surface level. I think what
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Speaker 4: I'm really interested is in style, and everybody particip pays
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Speaker 4: in style.
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Speaker 3: What or they think they do or they don't. Anyone
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Speaker 3: walking down the street.
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Speaker 4: You've been influenced or you choose to wear what you're
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Speaker 4: wearing consciously or subconsciously in many different ways. And how
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Speaker 4: we formulate that opinion and you know, make up dress
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Speaker 4: codes and figure out what it is appropriate to wear,
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Speaker 4: and how we want to define ourselves and what we
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Speaker 4: wear every day.
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Speaker 3: I think is is always going to be fascinating.
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Speaker 2: I read that at an early age you never thought
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Speaker 2: a career in fashion was attainable for you, which felt
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Speaker 2: so interesting because there was a kin Folk article and
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Speaker 2: the writer Kyla Marshall said something that it hit me.
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Speaker 2: She said, Lindsay exudes the confidence of someone who has
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Speaker 2: earned the respect accorded to her. As somebody looking in
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Speaker 2: from the outside on your life, you have this confidence
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Speaker 2: and a way that you moved throughout the world that
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Speaker 2: is almost like someone twice your age, like you've been
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Speaker 2: here before. So to hear that you felt like something
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Speaker 2: wasn't attainable for you was really surprising.
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Speaker 3: I think it's no and I get that.
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Speaker 4: I get that a lot where people feel like maybe
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Speaker 4: I feel like maybe like they either like, oh, I'm
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Speaker 4: like a little intimidated or like you just like move
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Speaker 4: with such confidence and all of that. But I think,
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Speaker 4: I mean, I am thirty one, I'm not as old
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Speaker 4: as I think a lot of people would assume that
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Speaker 4: I am. And I think just understanding when you are
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Speaker 4: a young black woman and you really want to go
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Speaker 4: after something but it doesn't really feel like it's within
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Speaker 4: your reach and it's within your grass. I think that
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Speaker 4: feeling is just something that is really hard to describe
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Speaker 4: and find the words to describe, honestly. But I think
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Speaker 4: it's more so for me that I always felt like
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Speaker 4: extremely blessed and grateful for my family and the love
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Speaker 4: that they've shown me and the support that they've shown me.
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Speaker 4: And I always just felt like these people have worked
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Speaker 4: really hard, sacrifice done so much for me. Like I mean,
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Speaker 4: my parents didn't have a ton growing up themselves, but
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Speaker 4: like made sure to like put me and my sister
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Speaker 4: into whatever programs and private school and all the things
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Speaker 4: that they could afford, and worked multiple jobs to make
6:48
Speaker 4: sure that we could have more than they did. And
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Speaker 4: I just felt like I didn't I didn't want to
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Speaker 4: just go through my life just working a job and
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Speaker 4: not living in my purpose and not actually going as
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Speaker 4: far as I could, and so I felt I may
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Speaker 4: not be able to get to a certain point. And
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Speaker 4: I don't know even what that point is now, but
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Speaker 4: I always felt like I don't have the luxury or
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Speaker 4: the right or the privilege just to do whatever, just
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Speaker 4: to kind of phone it in and find something to do,
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Speaker 4: like these people have sacrificed everything for me, So the
7:22
Speaker 4: least that I can do is push myself and try
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Speaker 4: to find my purpose, try to find what I can
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Speaker 4: do to make things better for a younger Lindsay. And
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Speaker 4: it ultimately really isn't about me anymore. And I think
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Speaker 4: that's you know, when you're when you're working for and
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Speaker 4: towards something that isn't it's not about you know, Lindsay's
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Speaker 4: personal goals.
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Speaker 3: I think that it just changes your motivations.
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Speaker 2: It's interesting you say that, because when we start out working,
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Speaker 2: it is all about you, like all you can think
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Speaker 2: about is yourself, because you're just scraping to get anywhere
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Speaker 2: to meet anybody. When did that shift happen for you?
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Speaker 2: When were you able to reflect and think this about
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Speaker 2: me anymore?
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Speaker 4: Honestly, when I worked at the Cut before, I just
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Speaker 4: felt like I don't want to be just like a
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Speaker 4: typical fashion editor. I don't want to just write articles
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Speaker 4: or stories that I'm not passionate about. I've been given
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Speaker 4: these gifts and talents for a reason, and I want
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Speaker 4: to use them in a way that is, you know,
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Speaker 4: effective and actually bringing about change in this industry. And
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Speaker 4: I had been testing out a lot of different ideas,
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Speaker 4: and I had been kind of like wanting a lot
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Speaker 4: of change in the industry and talking to a lot
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Speaker 4: of friends about it and facilitating a lot of those conversations,
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Speaker 4: like in my apartment, just inviting women of color over
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Speaker 4: and way too many people in one room, just let's
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Speaker 4: talk about this and see if we can come up
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Speaker 4: with any ideas. But I think, yeah, it was probably
8:41
Speaker 4: around then when I worked at The Cut last time,
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Speaker 4: which is twenty seventeen eighteen, that I felt like, if
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Speaker 4: I'm going to continue doing this, I have to be
8:49
Speaker 4: doing the work that I really want to make, because
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Speaker 4: it really isn't you know, it's just not feasible or
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Speaker 4: sustainable to roots yourself in something that isn't rooted in
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Speaker 4: my purpose and why I'm supposed to be here doing this.
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Speaker 2: It's so interesting you said you had a bunch of
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Speaker 2: people in a room. Gloria Steinem says that all revolutions,
9:08
Speaker 2: or most revolutions, start with a bunch of women in
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Speaker 2: a room telling stories and thinking, oh, that happened to
9:14
Speaker 2: me too, exactly.
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Speaker 4: M Yeah, yeah, it really was. It was like nothing
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Speaker 4: fancy or anything like that. It was way too many
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Speaker 4: people in a very small crabt apartment that I made
9:26
Speaker 4: food and was like, come.
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Speaker 3: Over, girls, let's talk.
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Speaker 4: But it was the start of many conversations for me
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Speaker 4: that led to, you know, bringing forth a lot of
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Speaker 4: different changes.
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Speaker 2: So as I was researching you, you had so much
9:38
Speaker 2: hard work packed into early years of your career. You
9:42
Speaker 2: moved from intern to assistant to executives.
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Speaker 3: It was at a lot of jobs.
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Speaker 2: You had a lot of jobs that does not come
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Speaker 2: without some tears, some sleepless nights, a lot of conversations.
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Speaker 2: I call them like spirit angels, people that come into
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Speaker 2: your life and lift you up, whether it's a conversation
9:58
Speaker 2: or more. What did the best days look like for
10:01
Speaker 2: you and what did the worst, hardest days look like
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Speaker 2: for you during those years?
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Speaker 4: I mean, I think the best days during those years
10:09
Speaker 4: were the days that I could go after a story
10:13
Speaker 4: that I really wanted to go after that. I didn't
10:15
Speaker 4: think they were going to let me go after and
10:17
Speaker 4: I would just go crazy. I think those were like
10:21
Speaker 4: the best times. I remember one story when I was
10:23
Speaker 4: at the Cup before we were talking about the Olympics
10:26
Speaker 4: and we were like, you know, are there other stories
10:29
Speaker 4: of like women in sports that like everybody isn't going
10:31
Speaker 4: after And I'd gone on this like a session with
10:34
Speaker 4: black cowgirls, and so I presented this idea. I was like, Hey,
10:38
Speaker 4: like these there's this group of black cowgirls. They're you know,
10:42
Speaker 4: there's this group of black women in their thirties and
10:44
Speaker 4: their forties and their fifties.
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Speaker 3: They're in Maryland, you.
10:46
Speaker 2: Know, in Maryland. That's amazing.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, And then I was like, they're not in the Olympics.
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Speaker 4: I think they're they're competing and they're actually winning, and
10:54
Speaker 4: they're incredible, and like it's actually very expensive to you know,
10:58
Speaker 4: up key horses and and all of that, and they
11:02
Speaker 4: were just these incredible women that I was really passionate
11:05
Speaker 4: about hearing their stories. And they didn't have the formal
11:08
Speaker 4: training or anything like that, but we're still making it
11:11
Speaker 4: work and showing up at competitions and killing it. And
11:14
Speaker 4: the story got Greenland, and I mean, now that I
11:16
Speaker 4: think about it, I was like, wait, what, Like I
11:19
Speaker 4: styled it and I wrote it and I produced it,
11:21
Speaker 4: and I drove to Maryland with all the clothes, met
11:23
Speaker 4: a photographer and all the people there. I had never
11:26
Speaker 4: met these people in person. I mean, I like, something
11:28
Speaker 4: could have happened to me. But I literally was just
11:30
Speaker 4: so excited about this story. I just drove just like
11:33
Speaker 4: six hours there and drove back in the middle of
11:36
Speaker 4: the night, and I mean I was thrilled about it
11:38
Speaker 4: because I just really wanted to do the story. And
11:39
Speaker 4: it's still to this day one of my favorite stories.
11:41
Speaker 4: So that was one that I would say, yeah, that
11:43
Speaker 4: was one of the best. I mean I think the
11:45
Speaker 4: worst times were the worst because it was just I mean, yeah,
11:49
Speaker 4: you look back and think that those are formative times,
11:52
Speaker 4: but when you're going through it, you're like, this is
11:54
Speaker 4: absolute hell. And I think those worst times are probably
11:58
Speaker 4: when I had to work multiple jobs. I mean I
12:00
Speaker 4: always I was always waitressing, which I was really good
12:04
Speaker 4: at and't like the tips, but I always felt like
12:07
Speaker 4: then I always waitress basically on the weekends because brunch
12:11
Speaker 4: shift was like the easiest money to get people get drunk,
12:14
Speaker 4: order a lot of drinks.
12:15
Speaker 3: It's like the best hips. But then I never had
12:17
Speaker 3: a but.
12:18
Speaker 4: Then I never had a weekend, so I was always
12:20
Speaker 4: really exhausted from that. And then I was always freelancing
12:25
Speaker 4: on the side as well, So I was always like
12:27
Speaker 4: helping other stylists out on shoots at night or if
12:30
Speaker 4: they were shooting, like if I did the brunch shift.
12:33
Speaker 3: I worked at this restaurant in Tribeca. I did the
12:35
Speaker 3: brunch shift there.
12:37
Speaker 4: Then I would like commute from there and come back
12:39
Speaker 4: to Brooklyn change, then go to the shoe later on.
12:43
Speaker 4: And I was also like trying to freelance write for places,
12:47
Speaker 4: or I would like taken like odd jobs, like I
12:49
Speaker 4: remember at some point I was working for like a
12:52
Speaker 4: clothing brand to like change the mannequins and merchandising at night.
12:56
Speaker 4: Like I was just doing so many freelance jobs because
12:59
Speaker 4: I needed the money and I was very very broke
13:03
Speaker 4: for a very long time, and so I think those
13:06
Speaker 4: were the worst times because it felt like I'm doing
13:08
Speaker 4: all these things and I still can't afford to, you know,
13:13
Speaker 4: have a very basic lifestyle because New York is certainly expensive.
13:17
Speaker 4: But also when you're working in fashion, you need to
13:19
Speaker 4: be making money because everybody comes for money. Everybody dresses
13:23
Speaker 4: really nice, everybody looks really nice. You were, you know,
13:26
Speaker 4: trying to go to events and impress people and look nice.
13:29
Speaker 4: Like it takes money to do all those things, and
13:32
Speaker 4: I think those times are really it felt defeating at
13:36
Speaker 4: times because it felt like if I would have had
13:39
Speaker 4: the money, the money was the actual answer.
13:42
Speaker 3: Like I remember, there were so many times.
13:44
Speaker 4: Where I would I would feel like, ah, man, if
13:47
Speaker 4: I like would have had the money for that opportunity,
13:49
Speaker 4: or like this wouldn't be as devastating like they were.
13:52
Speaker 4: There would be like these galas and they're like, oh,
13:54
Speaker 4: you know, if you can pay to get into this gala,
13:57
Speaker 4: like we have some extra tickets, and it's like, I
13:59
Speaker 4: don't have money.
14:00
Speaker 3: The gay looks that's thousands of dollars. I don't have
14:02
Speaker 3: a dress. I don't have.
14:03
Speaker 4: Enough money to like go get my hair blown out,
14:06
Speaker 4: all the things. And in my mind, I mean, those opportunities,
14:10
Speaker 4: especially when you are from Wisconsin, you don't have the connections.
14:13
Speaker 4: All of that were really important to me because I
14:16
Speaker 4: wanted to meet the head of this PR firm and
14:19
Speaker 4: I wanted to connect with this designer and all those things.
14:21
Speaker 4: So I think those were the most frustrating times because
14:25
Speaker 4: I felt like I was working really hard but just
14:28
Speaker 4: hitting a wall.
14:29
Speaker 2: How did you circumvent that? How did you meet people
14:33
Speaker 2: and connect and network without doing that?
14:36
Speaker 4: I mean, I think that over time it ended up
14:41
Speaker 4: being that I just went after working with people or
14:45
Speaker 4: like freelancing for people that I felt like, Okay, maybe
14:47
Speaker 4: I'll have a really good.
14:48
Speaker 3: Connection with them.
14:49
Speaker 4: When I left school, I remember I emailed like all
14:53
Speaker 4: these people, and then I kind of realized I was like, actually,
14:56
Speaker 4: like I need to spend some time thinking about who
14:59
Speaker 4: are the people that I I feel like, you know,
15:01
Speaker 4: they would really benefit from working with me, and I
15:04
Speaker 4: would really benefit from working with them instead of just
15:06
Speaker 4: like cold emailing and calling and trying to you know,
15:09
Speaker 4: get in contact with a lot of these people, because
15:11
Speaker 4: I felt like I really needed specific support and guidance
15:16
Speaker 4: and an education from people. And that actually changed a
15:20
Speaker 4: lot for me because I think then I realized, you know,
15:23
Speaker 4: you can have all these big name mentors and all
15:25
Speaker 4: of that, but if they're not invested in me or
15:27
Speaker 4: it doesn't really matter, Like it's better to have the
15:29
Speaker 4: right people in your corner and support from the right
15:32
Speaker 4: person than just a big name. And I think that
15:35
Speaker 4: was a big shift for me because I definitely had
15:37
Speaker 4: it in my mind of like, oh, I need this
15:39
Speaker 4: person to be my mentor I need this person to
15:41
Speaker 4: help me, or like I need to work at this publication,
15:43
Speaker 4: and it didn't happen at all in that way, and
15:47
Speaker 4: it was okay.
15:49
Speaker 2: Are there like a few people that come to mind
15:52
Speaker 2: in terms of mentorship like who took you under their way?
15:56
Speaker 3: Yeah?
15:57
Speaker 4: I mean I always say A good example for this
15:59
Speaker 4: is my old boss, Rachel Lang. We're friends now, so
16:02
Speaker 4: I like to talk about this story. She is an
16:04
Speaker 4: amazing stylist and she had hired She had come on
16:08
Speaker 4: to Style dot com, which merged into Vogue dot Com,
16:12
Speaker 4: and she was basically like over the fashion team. I
16:16
Speaker 4: remember I was really broke and desperate and I was like,
16:21
Speaker 4: you know, I want this like shop there was like
16:22
Speaker 4: a shopping editor job open and at the time I
16:25
Speaker 4: was an assistant working for her and a couple other
16:29
Speaker 4: people there, and I remember just telling her, I was like,
16:31
Speaker 4: I really want this job.
16:32
Speaker 3: I really need insurance. Like I was just very it
16:36
Speaker 3: was I was like, I can't keep doing this like,
16:37
Speaker 3: I can't keep assisting for all these people. I'm ready
16:39
Speaker 3: for the next level.
16:41
Speaker 4: And we had a really incredible conversation because she ended
16:45
Speaker 4: up telling me that I wasn't right for that role,
16:47
Speaker 4: and she honestly ended up telling me. She was like,
16:49
Speaker 4: I just don't think that this is actually what you're
16:51
Speaker 4: going to end up wanting to do. And if you
16:53
Speaker 4: do this kind of role, I think you're going to
16:55
Speaker 4: end up in, you know, writing about fashion the kind
16:58
Speaker 4: of way that you don't actually need to be and
17:00
Speaker 4: I think you could be doing bigger things. I think
17:02
Speaker 4: that you just need a little bit more time. And
17:05
Speaker 4: she was like, I want to actually like spend some
17:07
Speaker 4: time with you, you know, I want you to work
17:09
Speaker 4: under me, learn more about some shoots and like how
17:12
Speaker 4: I formulate shoot ideas and how I you know, tie
17:15
Speaker 4: different themes and culture to fashion all of that. And
17:18
Speaker 4: it was it was a big gamble because I think
17:21
Speaker 4: most times people think of a mentor as somebody that
17:24
Speaker 4: says yes to you and gives you opportunities and gives
17:26
Speaker 4: you the job connection. And here she was kind of
17:29
Speaker 4: becoming my mentor and saying no and saying no to
17:33
Speaker 4: that opportunity. But like offering me, you know, her time
17:36
Speaker 4: and investment. And I remember I called my mom and
17:39
Speaker 4: I was like, you know, I could look for other jobs,
17:42
Speaker 4: like I could go over places.
17:43
Speaker 3: And my mom was like, well.
17:44
Speaker 4: You know, just think about it, like maybe you know,
17:46
Speaker 4: you spend some time, like so like you have to
17:48
Speaker 4: work there for another five ten years, They'll give it
17:50
Speaker 4: some time and see if it's worth it. And I
17:53
Speaker 4: stayed with her for probably another eight or nine months,
17:56
Speaker 4: and it was really it was a really formative time
17:59
Speaker 4: for me. I learned so much from her about what
18:02
Speaker 4: I wanted to do. And she was actually the one
18:04
Speaker 4: who then got me the job at the CUT before
18:07
Speaker 4: and she came to me one day and she was like,
18:10
Speaker 4: you're ready and I and I have the right thing
18:12
Speaker 4: for you. And it was the biggest, you know, like
18:16
Speaker 4: the biggest blessing. And she was right because I wasn't
18:19
Speaker 4: the role that I originally wanted was too narrow and
18:22
Speaker 4: it wasn't the right thing. And when that role came
18:26
Speaker 4: up to the CUT, I was actually ready and it
18:28
Speaker 4: was a bigger role. And so yeah, I think that
18:30
Speaker 4: was That's been a really important mentorship moment for me.
18:35
Speaker 2: Thanks for sharing that. I think that's a really important lesson.
18:38
Speaker 2: Is there anything that you're embarrassed about that you did
18:42
Speaker 2: early on in your career.
18:44
Speaker 3: I mean, I, you know, I cried a lot, and
18:46
Speaker 3: I'm not embarrassed about the crying.
18:48
Speaker 4: I'm not embarrassed about the crying because it's not that
18:50
Speaker 4: I just think that I.
18:52
Speaker 2: I cried a lot too, if it makes you feel better.
18:55
Speaker 4: I took everything to heart and everything was so serious,
19:00
Speaker 4: and I understand because I was it was just like
19:02
Speaker 4: a different time, in a different you know, place in
19:04
Speaker 4: my life. But I think I just took everything so
19:07
Speaker 4: personally then that it just felt like if if, even
19:11
Speaker 4: if something went wrong, it just felt, oh my god,
19:13
Speaker 4: like everything is going to crumble and that. And I'm
19:16
Speaker 4: not necessarily embarrassed by that, but I wish I wouldn't
19:18
Speaker 4: have done that so much and been so easily swayed
19:23
Speaker 4: by something happening that I don't even know how. My
19:27
Speaker 4: best friend we met in the Teenville closet, and we
19:30
Speaker 4: had talked about this story a little while black that
19:32
Speaker 4: I completely forgot. But there was one day where basically
19:36
Speaker 4: there was like a shared subway card for the closet
19:39
Speaker 4: that the company paid for.
19:40
Speaker 3: Somebody had lost it and there was an errand that
19:43
Speaker 3: needed to be run.
19:44
Speaker 4: And so somebody came somebody came around and was like, Hey,
19:47
Speaker 4: does somebody have like a monthly subway card that XYZ
19:52
Speaker 4: person can borrow because we need them to go over
19:55
Speaker 4: an errands and we don't know where they like the
19:57
Speaker 4: closet card is. And I don't why I offered mine
20:00
Speaker 4: A wouldn't do that again. But the person ended up
20:03
Speaker 4: losing my subway card and it was the beginning of
20:05
Speaker 4: the month and I had.
20:07
Speaker 3: No money and I just lost it and they.
20:13
Speaker 4: You know, it wasn't nobody had offered to reimburse me,
20:16
Speaker 4: and I just and honestly, in that moment, I remember
20:18
Speaker 4: being like, I should just quit because these people are
20:21
Speaker 4: just they don't get it, like this one hundred dollars
20:24
Speaker 4: is actually a lot of money for me. And I
20:27
Speaker 4: think I was just very easily in my mind, I
20:30
Speaker 4: was just very easily swayed wanting to quit so often
20:33
Speaker 4: that I am a little embarrassed by that because I
20:35
Speaker 4: think in the grand scheme of things, like I knew
20:38
Speaker 4: that I could, you know, I knew that I had
20:41
Speaker 4: other jobs. I knew I could call my parents, Like
20:43
Speaker 4: there were other options, But I definitely wish that I
20:47
Speaker 4: wasn't so emotional about every little thing.
20:50
Speaker 2: Back then, I actually feel so similarly to you. But
20:53
Speaker 2: when I look back, it was because I didn't have
20:56
Speaker 2: the words to communicate how I was feeling in a
20:59
Speaker 2: totally You just don't have the language for some reason
21:02
Speaker 2: when you're starting out.
21:03
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, And now I would have been able to
21:06
Speaker 4: formulate yeah, like this is actually really detrimental to my
21:09
Speaker 4: well being as an adult. I don't have enough money
21:12
Speaker 4: to be able to afford a new card. I would
21:15
Speaker 4: appreciate like now, I yeah, I could run it off,
21:18
Speaker 4: But back then I just would falter and start crying
21:20
Speaker 4: instead of communicating effectively and using my words.
21:23
Speaker 3: And I'm a little very sad.
21:26
Speaker 2: I'm with you. Actually we kind of we touched on
21:30
Speaker 2: your age a little bit, but I'm interested in what
21:32
Speaker 2: you said. So, you were the youngest editor in chief
21:34
Speaker 2: of any Conde Nast publication, and you say that people
21:37
Speaker 2: have this fascination with your age. Yes, what do you
21:41
Speaker 2: mean by that?
21:42
Speaker 4: I think there's a fascination around it because when you're
21:46
Speaker 4: usually the only black person room, you already have this
21:51
Speaker 4: mentality that you have to work harder than everybody, So
21:53
Speaker 4: I think people a.
21:54
Speaker 3: Little caught off guard by it.
21:56
Speaker 4: But I think what I mean also by that fascination
21:59
Speaker 4: is that I mean I will always.
22:01
Speaker 3: Work my ass off.
22:03
Speaker 4: But I think that people then also have tried to
22:07
Speaker 4: use my age against me of saying, you know, in
22:11
Speaker 4: meetings or instances, not currently but in the past, of
22:15
Speaker 4: saying like, you know, you're young, or like maybe you
22:18
Speaker 4: wouldn't know, or things like that.
22:19
Speaker 3: And and I do feel like I have worked really hard.
22:22
Speaker 4: So if I'm saying something or an idea or that
22:25
Speaker 4: you know, something needs to change, et cetera, it's a
22:27
Speaker 4: valid opinion. I'm not saying that I like I'm always
22:29
Speaker 4: right and my opinion is top tier. But I do
22:32
Speaker 4: think that it goes both ways, where people like to
22:35
Speaker 4: praise it but then use it against you that like
22:38
Speaker 4: you're maybe too young to talk on a certain issue,
22:41
Speaker 4: or you know, or when I've just you know, used
22:43
Speaker 4: my platform to shed light on a lot of racism
22:46
Speaker 4: and lack of inclusivity in the industry, a lot of
22:48
Speaker 4: people will tell me like, well, like you just feel
22:50
Speaker 4: comfortable saying that because you're young, and you're from a
22:52
Speaker 4: different generation, and you you know, you guys like to complain,
22:56
Speaker 4: and so I think that people use it in this
22:58
Speaker 4: weird way yea that I just find strange.
23:03
Speaker 2: But I think about that a lot because gen Z
23:08
Speaker 2: is so outspoken and activism is at the core of
23:11
Speaker 2: so much of what they do. And I'm a millennial.
23:16
Speaker 2: I'm thirty, You're a millennial.
23:17
Speaker 3: Yep.
23:18
Speaker 2: As a millennial, I have a tough time walking the
23:21
Speaker 2: line between pointing out things that I see and feel
23:25
Speaker 2: are wrong and also not wanting to be a snowflake.
23:29
Speaker 2: Do you ever have that, Like are you thoughtful about
23:31
Speaker 2: your sensitivity or are you at a point where you're like, no,
23:33
Speaker 2: that my sensitivity is valid.
23:36
Speaker 3: I don't know.
23:36
Speaker 4: I don't feel like I need to have a well
23:39
Speaker 4: formulated opinion and everything. And I think that pressure, first
23:42
Speaker 4: of all, is where a lot of this comes from.
23:45
Speaker 4: Like I think that it's not even natural for us
23:48
Speaker 4: to just have all these opinions on everything and have
23:50
Speaker 4: to share them with everybody, and everybody judge you on
23:53
Speaker 4: all the things that you're thinking and doing and eating
23:55
Speaker 4: and consuming and breathing all day, and so I don't
23:58
Speaker 4: even That's why I don't have a Twitter, because I
24:00
Speaker 4: I just don't even want to add that pressure to
24:02
Speaker 4: my own life.
24:03
Speaker 3: But I think I also like, if I'm in a meeting,
24:07
Speaker 3: if I have something to say, I'll say it, but honestly,
24:08
Speaker 3: if I don't, I won't talk.
24:10
Speaker 4: I mean, obviously, yes, if it's something that I feel
24:13
Speaker 4: very strongly about, I will voice my pain on that.
24:15
Speaker 4: But I do feel like communication is key, and so
24:19
Speaker 4: if I feel something, usually I will And I think
24:22
Speaker 4: a lot of it just depends on also the situation.
24:25
Speaker 3: Like if it's something that I had an.
24:27
Speaker 4: Interaction with somebody and maybe it makes me feel uncomfortable
24:30
Speaker 4: or I don't know how I feel about that, I'll
24:33
Speaker 4: sit on it for twenty four hours and I'll usually
24:37
Speaker 4: journal about it, and then if I'm still bothered by
24:40
Speaker 4: it the next day, then I'll bring it up, and honestly,
24:43
Speaker 4: the next day I usually have better words to formulate
24:45
Speaker 4: why I feel the way that I feel. And I think,
24:49
Speaker 4: especially like when you're in a leadership role, you have
24:52
Speaker 4: to be able to make decisions that aren't based out
24:55
Speaker 4: of emotion, and so I do try to pull myself
24:59
Speaker 4: back of it and not share every single feeling because
25:02
Speaker 4: it's you just can't also manage that way.
25:06
Speaker 2: The twenty four hour rule is powerful. Obama was always
25:08
Speaker 2: known for that while he was in office, and it's
25:11
Speaker 2: an important tool. Did being editor in chief of teen
25:15
Speaker 2: Vogue change your personal style at all?
25:18
Speaker 4: You know, It's funny. That's a question I have again
25:20
Speaker 4: that I think is actually really interesting. I definitely have
25:25
Speaker 4: I think in every magazine and especially I started out
25:28
Speaker 4: in fashion, where the thing that you did to impress
25:32
Speaker 4: your boss was to kind of emulate their style and
25:34
Speaker 4: like what they what they were interested in in, the
25:37
Speaker 4: brand were interested in, and so yeah, I mean when
25:40
Speaker 4: I remember when I first worked at teen Vague, I
25:44
Speaker 4: look at the pictures now and I'm like, who is
25:46
Speaker 4: this person? It's it's so strange, but I wore all
25:50
Speaker 4: the things that were like buzzing and trending at that time.
25:54
Speaker 4: But you you kind of try to emulate like what
25:57
Speaker 4: you know you're trying to convey and the pages of
26:00
Speaker 4: the magazine. And so I do feel like when I
26:04
Speaker 4: can look in pictures and actually know where I worked
26:06
Speaker 4: depending on what I'm wearing, which is very strange.
26:09
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean definitely when.
26:11
Speaker 4: I started this job and I turned thirty, I was
26:17
Speaker 4: I definitely had a moment where I was like a
26:19
Speaker 4: lot of this stuff doesn't feel like me that's in
26:21
Speaker 4: my closet and I want to start over. And it
26:24
Speaker 4: was fun to do during the pandemic because that was
26:27
Speaker 4: like my own little at home project to do so
26:31
Speaker 4: and I had the time to do it, and it's
26:33
Speaker 4: space to do it, and I mean time is in
26:36
Speaker 4: Like I didn't have anywhere to go. I didn't have
26:38
Speaker 4: like events or anywhere to go, so I could literally
26:40
Speaker 4: I gave way so many clothes and all that, so
26:43
Speaker 4: it didn't matter because I wasn't leaving the house and
26:46
Speaker 4: it was really enjoyable, like to constantly interrogate, like why
26:50
Speaker 4: do I like this piece? Did I like it because
26:53
Speaker 4: I saw that this celebrity word, or did I like
26:55
Speaker 4: it because I was trying to impress my boss?
26:57
Speaker 3: Or I knew this brand was something that my boss
26:59
Speaker 3: would wear.
27:00
Speaker 4: And yeah, I mean I'm grown woman, got to dress
27:04
Speaker 4: the way that I feel good about. So that was
27:06
Speaker 4: that's actually been an interesting change for me.
27:09
Speaker 2: That's cool. I kind of saw that on your Instagram.
27:12
Speaker 2: I felt that from you you had a little bit
27:14
Speaker 2: of a metamorphosis. It was cool to watch.
27:17
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, completely, the pictures over time are it's very
27:22
Speaker 4: very telling where.
27:24
Speaker 2: I also love that you love leather.
27:25
Speaker 4: I love leather, I do, I really do, But I
27:29
Speaker 4: like I think I like things that are are simple
27:32
Speaker 4: to wear but have an edge to them. I don't
27:36
Speaker 4: I don't want to dress plane, but I think also
27:40
Speaker 4: I just need like the ease of being able to
27:42
Speaker 4: get dress because I'm in so many beings every day
27:44
Speaker 4: and running around and all of that. So yeah, it's
27:47
Speaker 4: definitely more into the textures of things. Or actually, I
27:51
Speaker 4: think my closet before was very like, oh, like I
27:54
Speaker 4: bought this for this event or I'm wearing this for
27:56
Speaker 4: this and now it is much more of a wardrobe,
27:59
Speaker 4: so I can wear a lot of things with a
28:00
Speaker 4: lot of things. So it's just easier also for me
28:02
Speaker 4: to get dressed.
28:03
Speaker 2: That comes with maturity, Like when you know, in interviews
28:07
Speaker 2: people always ask what do you wish you could tell
28:10
Speaker 2: twenty three year old Lindsay or twenty three year old
28:12
Speaker 2: Danielle stop buying Zara, stop buying Zara, and stop buying
28:17
Speaker 2: like a bunch of things. Just pick a few things
28:20
Speaker 2: that you like.
28:21
Speaker 3: Yeah.
28:22
Speaker 4: Yeah, Because I was always like going to all the
28:24
Speaker 4: stores every like oh I need this shirt or I
28:27
Speaker 4: need this and that and no stuff is a you know,
28:31
Speaker 4: the best quality. You don't need all that stuff You're
28:33
Speaker 4: spending a lot of money. Yeah, I definitely would go
28:36
Speaker 4: back in time.
28:37
Speaker 2: And change that me too. So fashion is such an
28:40
Speaker 2: image driven industry, and oftentimes it focuses on one or
28:44
Speaker 2: two specific versions of beauty. How do you balance knowing
28:48
Speaker 2: that imagery is important without overinvesting in how you look
28:52
Speaker 2: or how someone else looks?
28:55
Speaker 3: I mean me personally, I don't. I don't try.
28:57
Speaker 4: I try not to take myself too seriously. I also
29:00
Speaker 4: think that it's helpful if you don't think too highly
29:03
Speaker 4: yourself like that.
29:04
Speaker 2: I think I love that, I.
29:07
Speaker 3: Love what I.
29:07
Speaker 4: Do, but my identity as a person is not wrapped
29:12
Speaker 4: up in this title, and that's really important to me.
29:14
Speaker 3: I think, you know what I do.
29:17
Speaker 4: I feel like really incredibly blessed and grateful to be
29:20
Speaker 4: able to have this kind of.
29:21
Speaker 3: Job and to run the Cut. Love the Cut staff
29:25
Speaker 3: so much.
29:25
Speaker 4: They're like the smartest, funniest, the best people I've ever met.
29:29
Speaker 4: But I also think that, I mean, I don't wake
29:31
Speaker 4: up and think about the title and the things that
29:35
Speaker 4: you know, the headlines.
29:36
Speaker 3: And things that people say.
29:38
Speaker 4: It's just about making great work and using the platform
29:41
Speaker 4: and the.
29:42
Speaker 3: Best way that I can.
29:43
Speaker 4: And so I think that just trickles down into other
29:45
Speaker 4: things as well, because don't I don't think of myself
29:48
Speaker 4: in that way.
29:49
Speaker 2: Interesting, I want to talk about your move to The
29:52
Speaker 2: Cut because you mentioned you previously worked there and then
29:55
Speaker 2: you came back as editor in chief. Why did you
29:58
Speaker 2: want to return and also how did you know it
30:01
Speaker 2: was time for a change. I think that's so hard
30:03
Speaker 2: to determine. Sometimes I.
30:07
Speaker 4: Felt it for a while, but I think, you know,
30:12
Speaker 4: when the really big deal for me to be intentional
30:16
Speaker 4: and to not just, like I was saying like before,
30:20
Speaker 4: make decisions out of emotion.
30:21
Speaker 3: And I think that a lot of times the tendency.
30:24
Speaker 4: Is, oh, like you feel like you're ready for different experience,
30:27
Speaker 4: or you feel like you're, you know, ready for more responsibility,
30:30
Speaker 4: just make a hay decision. And I really really took
30:34
Speaker 4: some time with it and thought about it and prayed
30:36
Speaker 4: about it and meditate on it for a while. Even
30:39
Speaker 4: just the process of me accepting the job was months.
30:41
Speaker 4: It wasn't a quick decision. I wanted to really feel
30:46
Speaker 4: good about it and feel like it was the right
30:49
Speaker 4: move that I was making. But I mean The opportunity
30:52
Speaker 4: itself was obviously something that was incredibly interesting to me
30:57
Speaker 4: because I always loved the cut. I loved working there before,
31:00
Speaker 4: and I only left because I got any IC job.
31:02
Speaker 3: Offer, which you can't turn down.
31:03
Speaker 4: But I always loved it, and I always felt like,
31:05
Speaker 4: this is the incredible publication.
31:07
Speaker 3: There's so much opportunity, and so I was really.
31:10
Speaker 4: Excited about it, and you know, it just aligned itself
31:14
Speaker 4: in a way that it made sense.
31:16
Speaker 2: When you got the first IC offer, Was it surprising
31:22
Speaker 2: to you or had it kind of been like, did
31:24
Speaker 2: you know your name was in the ring? Had you
31:26
Speaker 2: kind of felt that coming.
31:28
Speaker 3: No, it happened really quickly. Honestly. I was working on
31:33
Speaker 3: the Black and Fashion piece.
31:35
Speaker 4: I had went to Mexico with my husband because I
31:40
Speaker 4: was really scared about it coming out. And the piece,
31:43
Speaker 4: you know, just was very telling of a lot of
31:46
Speaker 4: the racism in the industry that a lot of people
31:48
Speaker 4: hadn't talked about frankly in a way before, and a
31:53
Speaker 4: lot of older people in the industry told me that
31:57
Speaker 4: it just wasn't a smart thing to do and that
31:59
Speaker 4: it was going to be really hard for me to
32:00
Speaker 4: find a job, And I felt very convicted about the
32:03
Speaker 4: piece and just felt like, this is what I'm supposed
32:07
Speaker 4: to be doing, and this piece is If this is
32:09
Speaker 4: gonna be my last big thing, I stand by it.
32:14
Speaker 4: I still felt very still, very nervous about it, and
32:18
Speaker 4: so we literally went to Mexico. I was not even
32:21
Speaker 4: here when it came out. I turned my phone off.
32:24
Speaker 4: The next day was a Thursday that we flew back,
32:28
Speaker 4: and my boss said text me that like, oh, it's
32:31
Speaker 4: like blowing up everywhere. And I saw everybody's tweets and
32:34
Speaker 4: Instagram's about it, and I was really excited about it.
32:38
Speaker 3: Friday, I got.
32:39
Speaker 4: An email from Anna saying she wanted to talk to
32:42
Speaker 4: me on Monday. That weekend, I went around like asking everybody,
32:46
Speaker 4: what was your interview?
32:47
Speaker 3: Like what do I say? What do I don't say?
32:49
Speaker 3: All those things? Was finding something to wear talk to
32:53
Speaker 3: her on Monday?
32:54
Speaker 2: Wait, what did you wear?
32:56
Speaker 3: I wore It's like a I still have it. It's like
32:59
Speaker 3: a high neck proud a blue floral dress. And yeah.
33:05
Speaker 4: Then it happened pretty quickly, like I didn't edit test
33:08
Speaker 4: and then I mean it happened really quickly. So it
33:10
Speaker 4: wasn't something that was like on my radar of now
33:13
Speaker 4: I've done this piece and I'm looking for renext opportunity.
33:17
Speaker 3: It wasn't like that at all. It happened very quickly.
33:19
Speaker 2: Actually, I want to talk about that piece. It was
33:22
Speaker 2: actually my next question, So for anybody who hasn't read
33:26
Speaker 2: it yet, I'm just going to kind of give a
33:28
Speaker 2: little brief background. So in twenty eighteen, you published in
33:31
Speaker 2: The Cut a piece about what it's really like to
33:34
Speaker 2: be black and work in fashion. You highlighted the abuse
33:37
Speaker 2: of black culture as a marketing tool while simultaneously rejecting
33:41
Speaker 2: black people with opportunities within the industry, and about being
33:45
Speaker 2: advised to dim your blackness, which was a really interesting
33:49
Speaker 2: nuance in that piece. I have so many questions. I
33:52
Speaker 2: guess I'll start with three years later, do you feel
33:56
Speaker 2: any shifts or were they Have you felt surface level shifts?
34:00
Speaker 2: I think both.
34:00
Speaker 4: I think that I am privy to a lot of
34:03
Speaker 4: different conversations that obviously then change. You know that that
34:07
Speaker 4: changes my opinion on it. I do think that, you know,
34:10
Speaker 4: a lot of brands want the easy way out. They
34:13
Speaker 4: want to just okay, we put different kinds of people
34:17
Speaker 4: in our campaigns than we usually have, or you know,
34:19
Speaker 4: we made sure to put some more models in our
34:23
Speaker 4: runway lineup. That may look a little different, but it
34:26
Speaker 4: to me it always is. It's you know, putt putting
34:29
Speaker 4: your toe in the water, not really actually diving in.
34:32
Speaker 4: It's always, you know, the smallest, bare minimum effort that
34:36
Speaker 4: you can make. And I think that you see this
34:38
Speaker 4: in a lot of ways that are outside of rights.
34:40
Speaker 4: I mean, I think size inclusivity is the easiest way
34:43
Speaker 4: that you can also see this because every brand talks
34:46
Speaker 4: about you know, they care so much about women and
34:49
Speaker 4: size inclusivity and all of this. I mean, most shows
34:53
Speaker 4: still only include one size inclusive model, maybe one, maybe two.
34:59
Speaker 4: They're also usually the same models over and over again.
35:03
Speaker 4: And I do think that it just has to be
35:06
Speaker 4: what we tell brands that you know, we work with
35:09
Speaker 4: for the Black and Fashion Council, is that it has
35:11
Speaker 4: to be a holistic effort. It can't just be like
35:14
Speaker 4: we're going to do this front facing thing to make
35:16
Speaker 4: sure that people know like, oh well, like check the box.
35:19
Speaker 4: Make an internship mentorship, apprenticeship program that's actually recruiting at
35:24
Speaker 4: smaller community art schools HBCUs and actually affecting the pipeline
35:28
Speaker 4: and changing the amount of people of color that are
35:31
Speaker 4: working in the industry, like make a concerted effort to
35:35
Speaker 4: talk about, you know, the corporate culture at your brand
35:38
Speaker 4: and how you know people are actually I think given
35:41
Speaker 4: the opportunity to speak up when they think that, you know,
35:44
Speaker 4: something isn't inclusive and something isn't fair. I don't think
35:47
Speaker 4: it will will change as much until DEI is actually
35:52
Speaker 4: not like an HR job, like when companies don't have
35:55
Speaker 4: a diversity department. That's when, honestly we'll see change because
35:59
Speaker 4: if there's no diversity apartment, everybody actually already has to
36:03
Speaker 4: do this in their job, and that's a requirement of
36:05
Speaker 4: you to work there. And it's not just an HR
36:09
Speaker 4: or just like a we got canceled, so we have
36:12
Speaker 4: to fix it and hire a PR firm. The standard
36:14
Speaker 4: should be that everybody should care about DEI.
36:18
Speaker 2: When you talked about in the piece about dimming your blackness,
36:22
Speaker 2: can you explain to me and to the listeners what
36:26
Speaker 2: that means and what that feels like, because I think
36:29
Speaker 2: in each industry there's so many like nuances and it's
36:32
Speaker 2: so siloed. I really want to understand that what that
36:37
Speaker 2: felt like and what that looked like.
36:39
Speaker 4: I mean, I think the easy example is for me
36:42
Speaker 4: is that I always talk like this, I talk how
36:45
Speaker 4: exactly I want to talk, just because I'm an executive
36:49
Speaker 4: and run a brand.
36:51
Speaker 3: All of that I don't.
36:52
Speaker 4: I'm not trying to code switch or assimilate or change
36:55
Speaker 4: into what people think I should be. I think that
36:59
Speaker 4: there's just a lot out of narrow minded perspectives as
37:04
Speaker 4: far as you know, if you are in a certain role,
37:06
Speaker 4: or if you want to get to a certain role,
37:08
Speaker 4: or if you want to be taken seriously, that you
37:10
Speaker 4: have to have certain qualities and characteristics. And that's what
37:14
Speaker 4: I mean by dimming your light, and I just refuse
37:16
Speaker 4: to do it. I mean, I think it and that
37:18
Speaker 4: comes to light in a lot of different ways.
37:19
Speaker 3: I mean I.
37:22
Speaker 4: Remember years ago when I would wear braids to a
37:26
Speaker 4: lot of places and people would always be like, oh
37:28
Speaker 4: my gosh, like are you afraid, Like people are going
37:30
Speaker 4: to say your hair is too urban, or your hair
37:33
Speaker 4: you know, it's too natural, or all these other things.
37:36
Speaker 3: I'm like, no, I literally don't care. I'm wearing corn rows.
37:40
Speaker 4: I'm wearing braids like it's my hair and you can
37:43
Speaker 4: have an opinion on it, but it's not going to
37:46
Speaker 4: affect or bother me, And so I think I was
37:48
Speaker 4: always convicted about that, but I think that you know,
37:52
Speaker 4: everybody doesn't have that strength to feel as convicted of
37:56
Speaker 4: this is what I'm going to do and it doesn't matter.
37:58
Speaker 4: And so I'll is try to have empathy in that
38:02
Speaker 4: because I do think it I just didn't care. But
38:04
Speaker 4: I definitely saw a lot of people who were hesitant
38:07
Speaker 4: to live in their truth in that because it felt
38:10
Speaker 4: like you did have to dim your light to kind
38:12
Speaker 4: of assimilate.
38:15
Speaker 2: When people have to dim their light or feel like
38:19
Speaker 2: they have to dim their light, what happens? Like does
38:21
Speaker 2: it it chips away at your soul every day? Like
38:23
Speaker 2: what does that all amount to? Do you think?
38:27
Speaker 3: Yeah?
38:27
Speaker 4: I mean I think that it just changes the fabric
38:31
Speaker 4: of who you are, which I don't think any job
38:33
Speaker 4: should do. I think that I don't think that people
38:37
Speaker 4: shouldn't even have that right in general. And I think
38:40
Speaker 4: that a lot of our differences, whether it be in
38:43
Speaker 4: hair texture, skin color, identity, and sexuality, all those things
38:48
Speaker 4: make us more interesting human beings. And you tell better
38:52
Speaker 4: stories if you are around people who are not the
38:55
Speaker 4: same as you. And so I think often to me,
38:58
Speaker 4: it didn't it never really made sense, because the stories
39:02
Speaker 4: are better if they are diverse. Like, ultimately, what we're
39:05
Speaker 4: talking about here is, you know, using magazines and platforms
39:09
Speaker 4: to make your great body of work. And I think
39:10
Speaker 4: that you know, we're all assimilating and striving to look
39:13
Speaker 4: the same and act the same, and we're the same brands.
39:16
Speaker 3: The stories are going to be the same, and they're
39:18
Speaker 3: going to be born.
39:19
Speaker 2: I can hear from what you said how it changed
39:21
Speaker 2: your career. I'm wondering if it changed you at all.
39:25
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, honestly, I really try to leave with
39:29
Speaker 4: discerment and go with my gut, and I felt that
39:31
Speaker 4: very strongly with that piece.
39:33
Speaker 3: I try not to make any.
39:35
Speaker 4: Hay decisions and just decide how I feel about something
39:37
Speaker 4: right away. But I really do, if I feel strongly
39:39
Speaker 4: about something, I will go all the way. Even if
39:42
Speaker 4: everybody is telling me I'm going the wrong way. I
39:45
Speaker 4: don't care, and I think that I'll admit I am
39:47
Speaker 4: relentless if I want to do something, even if it
39:51
Speaker 4: is like the steepest uphill battle usually, I mean, I'm
39:57
Speaker 4: aware that it's not pro battle, and I'm aware that
39:59
Speaker 4: it is going to be stressful and a long journey
40:02
Speaker 4: and all of that, and I'm going to be tired
40:04
Speaker 4: and all of that, But those have been the projects
40:06
Speaker 4: and things that I've been the most proud of that
40:09
Speaker 4: I wasn't scared of taking a risk, that I wasn't
40:12
Speaker 4: deterred by wanting to do something difficult because everybody said
40:16
Speaker 4: it was too.
40:16
Speaker 2: Hard before we head into rapid fire, because I know
40:20
Speaker 2: you have to go. I heard that you stopped making
40:23
Speaker 2: weekend plans, and I just, first of all, all hail
40:27
Speaker 2: queen lindsay how did you decide to do that? And
40:31
Speaker 2: has it been as amazing as it sounds?
40:34
Speaker 3: It was actually my husband.
40:35
Speaker 4: It wasn't my idea, So I will say that he
40:38
Speaker 4: had basically told me that I'm very much like an
40:42
Speaker 4: ideas person, and I feel like I'm always I'm always
40:46
Speaker 4: in my head on an idea or something that I
40:49
Speaker 4: want to do. I'm reading everything all the time, consuming
40:54
Speaker 4: things all the time. And because of what I do,
40:57
Speaker 4: it also feels like like when you watch a TV show,
41:01
Speaker 4: you may just be watching a TV show for the enjoyment.
41:03
Speaker 4: When I watch a show, my brain is all of
41:05
Speaker 4: a sudden, like, oh, should we shoot this person? Did
41:07
Speaker 4: we write a review? Did we write some commentary on
41:10
Speaker 4: list I really.
41:11
Speaker 3: Like the fashion. Did we do a take on that?
41:13
Speaker 3: Who is this person? Did we like?
41:15
Speaker 4: My mind just starts running on work mode, and so
41:19
Speaker 4: I really do need days where my brain is not
41:22
Speaker 4: thinking about work and I have to completely do other things.
41:27
Speaker 4: I really enjoy cooking and a lot of other things
41:30
Speaker 4: that just actually require me to use my hands and
41:33
Speaker 4: not be on my phone and you or I'll just
41:35
Speaker 4: like if I want to watch something, it's something very
41:37
Speaker 4: completely different that we wouldn't cover. But it's definitely helped
41:41
Speaker 4: of not having to be on for people, not having
41:45
Speaker 4: to like the just the mental exhaustion of constantly having
41:51
Speaker 4: to talk to people and be on and all of that.
41:53
Speaker 3: And so, I mean, I see my friends, but I.
41:56
Speaker 4: Make plans with them during the week after work, and obviously, yes,
42:00
Speaker 4: if it's somebody's birthday or something like that, I will go.
42:03
Speaker 4: But having freeing myself from the shackles of weekend plants
42:08
Speaker 4: has been great because I just do what I want
42:12
Speaker 4: to do. So if I feel like I want to
42:13
Speaker 4: see a friend, maybe I'll do it. But if I
42:16
Speaker 4: want to sleep all day long, I also do that.
42:19
Speaker 3: And I think that a lot of times it.
42:21
Speaker 4: Felt like in the past, like, oh, you need to network,
42:23
Speaker 4: you need to go to this brunch, you need to
42:25
Speaker 4: do all the things. And I'm also done on social
42:27
Speaker 4: weekends as well, and I feel like it actually allows
42:30
Speaker 4: me to just be in the moment.
42:33
Speaker 2: And just be. Glennon Doyle recently said that the revolution
42:37
Speaker 2: is a well rested woman. And it sounds like you're
42:41
Speaker 2: saying yes to yourself, which is that's fantastic, Okay, rapid fire, lindsay,
42:46
Speaker 2: then one thing you've changed your mind about recently onions
42:51
Speaker 2: that you like them now?
42:52
Speaker 4: I think so during is still out.
42:56
Speaker 2: One thing you've learned from the generation of women before
42:59
Speaker 2: you and the generation after.
43:00
Speaker 4: You, generation before me, that I haven't earned the right
43:04
Speaker 4: to give up even if I feel like it, uh
43:07
Speaker 4: generation after me, that speaking up is never a bad thing.
43:14
Speaker 2: Fashion or wellness trend that is worth the hype meditation.
43:19
Speaker 2: I'm trying so hard.
43:20
Speaker 3: I know it's very trendy, but it really is worth it.
43:23
Speaker 2: That's good to hear someone in Hollywood that inspires you.
43:27
Speaker 4: I mean, the first thought that comes to mind is Oprah.
43:30
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, that's a very easy answer, but really, she's
43:34
Speaker 4: the original bankster.
43:35
Speaker 3: She really is.
43:36
Speaker 2: She is somebody in real life that inspires you, my sister. Okay,
43:43
Speaker 2: so I do a pretty smart question every week. I
43:46
Speaker 2: pick a card, so we have these. Okay, ooh, I
43:52
Speaker 2: love this one for you. Okay, it's a quick three
43:55
Speaker 2: part So which compliment do you receive most often? Is it?
43:59
Speaker 3: I mean that I'm pretty good at my job.
44:03
Speaker 2: Which compliment means the most to you?
44:05
Speaker 3: That I'm changing things for young black girls?
44:08
Speaker 2: And which compliment makes you the most uncomfortable?
44:11
Speaker 4: Honestly, compliments do make me a little uncomfortable because well,
44:15
Speaker 4: I mean, any compliment about doing a great job, it
44:17
Speaker 4: always makes me uncomfortable, which is definitely not a good thing.
44:20
Speaker 2: But I'm always like, okay, okay, a book that changed
44:25
Speaker 2: your life?
44:27
Speaker 4: Ooh, I mean anything Tony Morrison. I'm a huge Tony
44:31
Speaker 4: Morrison fan.
44:33
Speaker 2: Last question, the smartest decision you've ever made?
44:37
Speaker 3: Wow, honestly corny but true. Marrying my husband not Corney.
44:46
Speaker 3: That's probably the best decision I have made in my life.
44:48
Speaker 2: So yeah, Lindsey, if and when you come back, I
44:51
Speaker 2: hope you do, we're gonna have to all We're gonna
44:53
Speaker 2: have to switch and talk about how you knew your
44:55
Speaker 2: husband was the one because I need to understand. I
44:57
Speaker 2: need all of the lessons first of all, and I
45:00
Speaker 2: need to understand what you felt. But for now, thank
45:03
Speaker 2: you so much for your time. You are truly wonderful.
45:07
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
45:08
Speaker 2: It was fun, all right. Today's a good day to
45:28
Speaker 2: have a good day. I'll see you next week.