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Body Bags: The Strange Case of Tammy Daybell · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:09
Speaker 1: Bodybacks with Joseph Scott Morgan. You spent your entire life
0:23
Speaker 1: educating children, and I don't mean in a normal classroom.
0:27
Speaker 1: I'm talking about in the library, servicing children for maybe
0:33
Speaker 1: a couple of decades, where you're teaching them how to read,
0:36
Speaker 1: one of the most basic things in the world. You're
0:39
Speaker 1: beloved in the school, and not just in the school,
0:42
Speaker 1: but in the community at large. And suddenly one morning
0:46
Speaker 1: your husband wakes up and find you dead in the
0:50
Speaker 1: bed next to him, and you're only forty nine years old.
0:54
Speaker 1: Today we're gonna talk about the Tammy Day Bell case.
0:58
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this his body backs back
1:06
Speaker 1: with me again. Today is my good friend Jackie Howard,
1:09
Speaker 1: executive producer of Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Jackie, what
1:14
Speaker 1: can you tell us about the Tammy Day Bell case? Joe?
1:17
Speaker 1: The death of Tammy Daybell came seemingly out of nowhere.
1:20
Speaker 1: In fact, in everyday life, Tammy Day Bell was a
1:24
Speaker 1: healthy individual. In fact, she was training for a five
1:28
Speaker 1: k race. Yet her husband, Chad Dave Bell, woke up
1:31
Speaker 1: called nine one saying that his wife was dead in
1:34
Speaker 1: the bed next to him. No autopsy was done, no
1:38
Speaker 1: talk screen was done, nothing was done by the investigative
1:44
Speaker 1: team other than to say that Tammy Daybell was dead.
1:48
Speaker 1: You know, one of the basic guiding principles in any
1:52
Speaker 1: medical legal death investigation, Jackie, is that when someone is
1:56
Speaker 1: actually found decease, that is someone that doesn't just you
2:00
Speaker 1: know how people term it sometimes keel over dead, you
2:04
Speaker 1: need to have a representative of the corner the medical
2:07
Speaker 1: legal community, the corner of the medical examiner to show
2:10
Speaker 1: up on the scene. And the reason is is that
2:13
Speaker 1: you get one shot at this. When I teach my classes,
2:16
Speaker 1: I talk about you can only enter a room for
2:19
Speaker 1: the very first time. That is, you can only cross
2:22
Speaker 1: that threshold one time. After that that moment's gone, and
2:26
Speaker 1: those things that you decide to do at that moment
2:28
Speaker 1: time are critical. And in Tammy Daybell's case, there's a
2:32
Speaker 1: thread that runs through the entire thing, the family, even
2:36
Speaker 1: the corner, the police that were in the scene that
2:39
Speaker 1: kept using the term appears to be consistent with the
2:43
Speaker 1: natural death. And when that's put forward, you have to
2:47
Speaker 1: ask this question, Jackie, how did the corner come to
2:50
Speaker 1: that conclusion? How did this corner come to the conclusion
2:55
Speaker 1: that tammy Day Belle's death was a natural death, because
2:59
Speaker 1: once you say that, once you say that this is
3:01
Speaker 1: a natural death, that convinces the family that you know,
3:05
Speaker 1: there's no need to go any further. But you have
3:07
Speaker 1: to have an answer for that. You have to be
3:09
Speaker 1: able to fill out a death certificate. Where are you
3:11
Speaker 1: going to put down suddenly died God called an end
3:15
Speaker 1: of life. Now you have to have substance for reasons.
3:18
Speaker 1: And the reason this is so important is that Tammy
3:20
Speaker 1: David was only forty nine years of age, Jackie, Like
3:24
Speaker 1: you said, she was training to run in a race.
3:29
Speaker 1: And if you can do that, then that means that
3:31
Speaker 1: more than likely you're not having some kind of cardiac
3:33
Speaker 1: event that's ongoing. Because you know, the number one killer
3:36
Speaker 1: in America is actually a cause of death, is actually
3:39
Speaker 1: related to cardiac disease. There's no indication of that whatsoever.
3:44
Speaker 1: And from what we're hearing what we're hearing, the only
3:48
Speaker 1: official that actually showed up at the scene of her
3:50
Speaker 1: death were members of the local sheriff's office, and they said,
3:55
Speaker 1: These deputies said, well, it appears to be consistent with
3:58
Speaker 1: the natural death. Well, you know, my question to that is,
4:02
Speaker 1: how can a deputy sheriff in this tiny little community
4:07
Speaker 1: look at a body, not know anything about the medical
4:10
Speaker 1: history of this individual, and say, well, everything appears to
4:12
Speaker 1: be consistent with the natural death. Did this individual have
4:15
Speaker 1: some kind of special insight? No, they didn't. They worked
4:20
Speaker 1: upon an assumption and then the base law the basics
4:25
Speaker 1: of this the corner violet. They didn't even show up
4:28
Speaker 1: to the scene from what we're hearing, And it's just important.
4:30
Speaker 1: And this is why. First off, you've got this woman
4:33
Speaker 1: that has died in her sleep. You have no good reason,
4:37
Speaker 1: at least scientific reason to hang your hat on at
4:40
Speaker 1: this moment time, and you're just going to release her
4:44
Speaker 1: directly from the scene. And one of the most important
4:47
Speaker 1: things about conducting a death investigation from the perspective of
4:52
Speaker 1: the corners, you have to see that body in context.
4:55
Speaker 1: So what does that mean. I want to see the
4:58
Speaker 1: body on the bed where they were found. I want
5:00
Speaker 1: to see the body on the floor if that's where
5:02
Speaker 1: they're found, adjacent to the bed. Is there something that
5:05
Speaker 1: happened during the night when no one else was witnessing
5:09
Speaker 1: this event that could give me clues as a trained
5:12
Speaker 1: medical legal death investigator, as to what brought about the
5:15
Speaker 1: end of her life, and you know, was there some
5:18
Speaker 1: kind of trauma that was sustained. Was there blood on
5:20
Speaker 1: the pillow? Will never know that. But beside that, we've
5:25
Speaker 1: got another issue. We don't know what the post mortem
5:28
Speaker 1: interval is. And that's one of the things that we
5:30
Speaker 1: do that's critical. Okay, you just threw one out at
5:32
Speaker 1: mean post mortem interval? What the hey? Well with post
5:37
Speaker 1: mortem interval, Jackie. What that means is when we're talking
5:41
Speaker 1: about we've got three areas that we deal in in
5:44
Speaker 1: medical legal death death investigation. We talk about anti mortem,
5:48
Speaker 1: which think of a like an anti chamber in a pyramid.
5:52
Speaker 1: That means the precursor. That's going to mean anti mortem
5:56
Speaker 1: before death. And then we have an event that's called perimortem,
6:00
Speaker 1: which kind of means in the throws up. That's like
6:02
Speaker 1: in the midst of the fatal event. You're not quite
6:05
Speaker 1: dead yet, but you're in that kind of lingering mode.
6:08
Speaker 1: There say, an individual that is bleeding out, that has
6:11
Speaker 1: sustained a gunshot wound. And then you have post mortem. Well,
6:16
Speaker 1: post mortem means that period of time from when your
6:18
Speaker 1: heart ceased beating until the moment in time when you're
6:21
Speaker 1: finally discovered by the authorities, and so we have to
6:25
Speaker 1: be able to measure that. And the way that we
6:27
Speaker 1: measure that is examining the body by determining post mortem temperature,
6:33
Speaker 1: that is, how cool or warm the body is to
6:37
Speaker 1: the touch. And also we can use thermometer to facilitate
6:40
Speaker 1: that because what we know is the body once your
6:44
Speaker 1: heart stops beating, you begin to bleed energy out until
6:48
Speaker 1: like the twelfth hour after death, and after that all
6:51
Speaker 1: of the energy and the heat that your body is
6:53
Speaker 1: generated is gone. And at that point you are just
6:56
Speaker 1: like any other element of a room, say, for instance,
7:00
Speaker 1: a piece of furniture, the bed. You're impacted directly by
7:04
Speaker 1: the environmental temperature. That means your temperature or your body's
7:07
Speaker 1: going to rise and fall just like it would on
7:09
Speaker 1: a chair or end table or something like that. And
7:12
Speaker 1: then after that we have to do an assessment on
7:17
Speaker 1: the rider mortis that is the stiffness in the body,
7:20
Speaker 1: how stiff is a body, And that's done at a
7:22
Speaker 1: measured interval, you know, And it starts in the small
7:25
Speaker 1: muscles of the face and then it extends out to
7:28
Speaker 1: the peripheral areas like the legs and the elbows and
7:33
Speaker 1: all these sorts of things. It kind of starts at
7:35
Speaker 1: the same time and all the muscle groups, but you
7:37
Speaker 1: first appreciate it in the smaller muscles. And then we
7:39
Speaker 1: talk about stuff like post mortem leavidity or the settling
7:43
Speaker 1: of blood. You and I have talked about that a lot, Jackie,
7:45
Speaker 1: and that again happens at a measured interval. None of
7:49
Speaker 1: this stuff was done so at the end of the
7:52
Speaker 1: day when you're doing a scene assessment on the body.
7:55
Speaker 1: And in this particular case and Tammy day Bell's case,
7:57
Speaker 1: guess what, we got a big fat donut here. There's
8:00
Speaker 1: no data. There's no data whatsoever, no scientific data to
8:04
Speaker 1: back this up so that we can make a determination
8:08
Speaker 1: as to how long this individual has been dead the
8:10
Speaker 1: context in which their body was found. Now, one very
8:14
Speaker 1: interesting piece of this is that Tammy's kids, they were
8:20
Speaker 1: in attendance. What we're hearing is that the children actually
8:24
Speaker 1: came to the home after they had been notified that
8:27
Speaker 1: their mom had passed on. And one little comment really
8:31
Speaker 1: caught my ear in the midst of all of this.
8:35
Speaker 1: One of the children at that point time is reported
8:38
Speaker 1: to have said that Tammy had something coming out of
8:43
Speaker 1: her nose, potentially out of her mouth, and it sounded
8:46
Speaker 1: to me, Jackie, like what we refer to as a
8:48
Speaker 1: frothy ademitus cone. Well, you're throwing those big ones out.
8:53
Speaker 1: What does that mean. Well, anytime we see this kind
8:58
Speaker 1: of if people just agin almost like the head of
9:01
Speaker 1: a beer, if you will, you know how when you
9:03
Speaker 1: pour beer too fast and that foam kind of creeps
9:06
Speaker 1: up to the top, it's froth You've heard that term before.
9:12
Speaker 1: Horses get frothy when they run real fast. But this
9:15
Speaker 1: can happen in the midst of a fatal event in
9:20
Speaker 1: which there is some type of respiratory distress that's going on, where,
9:26
Speaker 1: for instance, individuals having trouble breathing. It can happen in
9:30
Speaker 1: the event of some kind of direct asphyxial event, like
9:34
Speaker 1: a suffocation or like a strangulation, smothering, that sort of thing.
9:40
Speaker 1: It can happen in certain cases relative to utilizing drugs.
9:46
Speaker 1: We see it a lot in heroin overdose victims because
9:49
Speaker 1: what we do know is that haroin, for instance, depresses
9:52
Speaker 1: the respiratory system and so the lungs become very very heavy.
9:57
Speaker 1: At that point in time, you're really struggling to breathing.
9:59
Speaker 1: You know what, l what other area that you see
10:01
Speaker 1: this in, Jackie. We actually see it in drowning victims
10:04
Speaker 1: when we take a body out of a body of
10:06
Speaker 1: water and pull them up on the bank of say
10:09
Speaker 1: a lake or river. It's really kind of odd to
10:13
Speaker 1: see this. But suddenly this frothiodemitist cone begins to emerge
10:17
Speaker 1: from the nose in the mouth and it's almost kin
10:20
Speaker 1: kind of a pink color to it, and that's again
10:23
Speaker 1: an indication that something has compromised the respiratory system. And
10:27
Speaker 1: in Tammy's case, I would want to go back and
10:31
Speaker 1: take a look at this and say, well, my gosh,
10:33
Speaker 1: what in the world would have impacted this forty nine
10:36
Speaker 1: year old, healthy, beautiful, vibrant woman who's loved by all
10:40
Speaker 1: of these folks, that doesn't have any kind of physical complaints,
10:44
Speaker 1: no kind of medical history or anything like that. What
10:47
Speaker 1: would have brought her to this end suddenly in her death?
10:50
Speaker 1: And you know what, those answers could very well have
10:53
Speaker 1: been buried with her, Jackie, Jackie, I got to say
11:15
Speaker 1: that with Tammy's death, we've and I know it's cliche
11:18
Speaker 1: to say this, but you know, at the end of
11:20
Speaker 1: the day, we've we've got far more questions and we
11:22
Speaker 1: do answers and all because one simple action was not taken,
11:29
Speaker 1: and that is somebody picking up their car keys, getting
11:31
Speaker 1: in their car, and driving out to the scene of
11:35
Speaker 1: her death. As the content area expert for that particular county,
11:40
Speaker 1: and I'm talking about the corner you were reading my
11:43
Speaker 1: mind joke as a cut a couple of specific questions here.
11:46
Speaker 1: We know, Joe, as we've been talking about that the
11:49
Speaker 1: coroner did not go to the scene. First off, there
11:52
Speaker 1: is a difference between a corner and a medical examiner,
11:55
Speaker 1: and in this county, Fremont County, it is a corner
11:59
Speaker 1: that attends death. Not only does that raise questions that
12:02
Speaker 1: she did not attend to the scene. Idaho does not
12:06
Speaker 1: require autopsies. The family said no to an autopsy and
12:11
Speaker 1: that was it. There's just so many questions there, Joe,
12:14
Speaker 1: about how Tammy day Belle to hide. Yeah, there are.
12:18
Speaker 1: And it's really amazing, Jackie, when you begin to think
12:21
Speaker 1: about how the decision by one individual can impact multiple cases.
12:27
Speaker 1: In as we well know, the day Belle saga that
12:29
Speaker 1: goes on and on and on. There seems like their
12:32
Speaker 1: bodies all over the place, and in my estimation, this
12:36
Speaker 1: is one of certainly the most curious out of all
12:40
Speaker 1: of them. And you're right, you are in that Idaho
12:44
Speaker 1: is a corner state. That means that the official death investigator,
12:49
Speaker 1: that is the medical legal death investigator also referred to
12:52
Speaker 1: as the certifier of death for that county, is an
12:56
Speaker 1: elected official. And there are many, many wonderful corners all
13:00
Speaker 1: across this country. It is up to the corner at
13:05
Speaker 1: that moment in time to make a decision about what
13:11
Speaker 1: is going to be the disposition of the body. And
13:13
Speaker 1: what I mean by that is, is the body going
13:16
Speaker 1: to be released from the scene, nothing else is going
13:18
Speaker 1: to be pursued, or is the body going to be
13:22
Speaker 1: sent And in this case, the body Tammy Davel's body
13:25
Speaker 1: would have been sent to the Ada County Coroner's office,
13:31
Speaker 1: which is rather large county, which is where Boise is,
13:34
Speaker 1: and that's where the autopsies are done. They kind of
13:38
Speaker 1: the best way to say it is a subcontract to
13:40
Speaker 1: do all of the autopsies for this little county, Fremont County.
13:44
Speaker 1: That choice wasn't made. The former was made. They decided
13:49
Speaker 1: the corner decided to release that body from the scene
13:53
Speaker 1: and sent directly to the funeral home. And what they're
13:56
Speaker 1: saying their default position is saying, well, the family didn't
14:00
Speaker 1: want an autopsy. Well, let me break this down for you. Yeah,
14:04
Speaker 1: the family may not have wanted an autopsy, but at
14:07
Speaker 1: the end of the day, when you have a death
14:10
Speaker 1: investigation involving a forty nine year old woman who you know,
14:14
Speaker 1: let's face it, there are other mysterious events that are
14:16
Speaker 1: going on around this body, it relies. It comes down
14:20
Speaker 1: to this corner making that decision, and they are hard decisions.
14:24
Speaker 1: That's why you get elected to this office to go
14:27
Speaker 1: ahead and even if it doesn't abide by the wishes
14:30
Speaker 1: of the family, you go ahead and you do this autopsy,
14:33
Speaker 1: because if you don't, as we're seeing played out right
14:35
Speaker 1: before us, you wind up with a gigantic mess on
14:38
Speaker 1: your hand. That means that after this period of time
14:41
Speaker 1: which everybody knows Tammy Day, Belle was sent from Idaho,
14:45
Speaker 1: eventually wound up in a graveyard down in Utah and
14:48
Speaker 1: she's buried. So now you've got all kinds of other
14:52
Speaker 1: complications that come in if you want to examine her body.
14:55
Speaker 1: Now you've got to have her exhumed. And there is
14:57
Speaker 1: the big problem, Joe, because with burial comes the preparation
15:02
Speaker 1: of the body to be buried at that point, if
15:06
Speaker 1: she had been poisoned, if she had overdosed, if she
15:11
Speaker 1: had any chemical in her body, that evidence is destroyed now.
15:16
Speaker 1: And Jackie, in this particular case, this is another example
15:19
Speaker 1: of if only, if only another decision had been made,
15:25
Speaker 1: so we know that that there was a bad decision
15:29
Speaker 1: made at the scene of Tammy Daville's death. All Right,
15:33
Speaker 1: the body is released. It has to go to the
15:35
Speaker 1: funeral home because you're not going to be able to
15:37
Speaker 1: transport her body across state lines without that body being embolved.
15:41
Speaker 1: All right, there was another opportunity here. The corner could
15:46
Speaker 1: have gone to the funeral home. And some reports say
15:49
Speaker 1: that she did at that point in time what she saw.
15:52
Speaker 1: I have no idea. Obviously she felt comfortable enough at
15:55
Speaker 1: that moment time to release the body. But I'll tell
15:58
Speaker 1: you what she didn't do, Jackie. We have these big
16:01
Speaker 1: needles that we use, these big syringes, if you will.
16:04
Speaker 1: The needle itself is actually called a ten gage needle,
16:08
Speaker 1: and people at home may or may not know what
16:10
Speaker 1: it is, but it's a brother large needle. It's not
16:12
Speaker 1: something you would give an injection with, say, if you're
16:14
Speaker 1: going to see your family practitioner, it's rather large. It's
16:18
Speaker 1: what we use in the morgue. We can go to
16:21
Speaker 1: a funeral home and I've done this any number of
16:22
Speaker 1: times and take a ten gage needle with a large
16:25
Speaker 1: syringe and you go right through the breastplate and you
16:28
Speaker 1: go into the A order and you directly draw heart blood.
16:32
Speaker 1: If you can't get heart blood out of the A order,
16:35
Speaker 1: you can go into you can do a slight incision
16:37
Speaker 1: and draw out femeral blood. Now that's better than nothing.
16:41
Speaker 1: What else you can do with the more you can
16:43
Speaker 1: actually and this means that you're not doing an autopsy,
16:46
Speaker 1: you're not having to open the body. We do all
16:48
Speaker 1: of this externally. We can take a similar needle and
16:51
Speaker 1: go directly externally into the roof of the bladder if
16:55
Speaker 1: you will, and draw out urine that wasn't done. If
16:57
Speaker 1: you can't get that, we can always go the eyes.
17:00
Speaker 1: And what are the eyes do? Well? They're filled with
17:03
Speaker 1: what's referred to as vitreous fluid and a lot of
17:05
Speaker 1: people aren't familiar with that. It's got a real kind
17:08
Speaker 1: of cyclical rate. It doesn't it doesn't metabolize things say,
17:13
Speaker 1: for instance, like the blood does it just kind of
17:15
Speaker 1: it kind of sits there and kind of slowly kind
17:18
Speaker 1: of churns in this area, and it's what gives our
17:20
Speaker 1: eye form. But what's really interesting about it is it
17:23
Speaker 1: holds on to certain chemicals that we can actually go
17:28
Speaker 1: in and conduct toxicological studies on. That wasn't done, Jackie.
17:33
Speaker 1: They missed the boat on that point too. So now
17:36
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, as you mentioned, you've got all these
17:39
Speaker 1: other people that are now touching the body. You've got
17:42
Speaker 1: these funeral directors that are handling the body, the embalmer
17:45
Speaker 1: that's going to be setting things up to start this
17:47
Speaker 1: embalming process. And you know, I've had a lot of
17:51
Speaker 1: people that have asked me, but we'll look, Morgan. You know,
17:53
Speaker 1: why couldn't they just go back and draw talks on her?
17:56
Speaker 1: You know, after she's been exhumed. You can't. It's an
18:00
Speaker 1: empirical impossibility, Dena. Why because all the blood is gone,
18:05
Speaker 1: every single drop of it. Because the way embalming works,
18:09
Speaker 1: it's a gravity driven process. They have a little pump
18:12
Speaker 1: that pumps this embalming fluid into the body. It starts
18:17
Speaker 1: up high, it comes down low, and so as they're
18:19
Speaker 1: pumping the body, they're infusing it with this embalming fluid.
18:24
Speaker 1: It's pushing all the blood out of the body. And
18:26
Speaker 1: they have this return where they use these large metal
18:30
Speaker 1: trocars they're called to start to start this event, and
18:34
Speaker 1: they're pulling the blood out of the body. And when
18:37
Speaker 1: that fluid turns clear, you know that all the blood
18:40
Speaker 1: is gone and the body is embalmed. So you can't
18:44
Speaker 1: go back after the fact. And if you've never if
18:48
Speaker 1: you've never actually placed your hands onto an embalmed body,
18:52
Speaker 1: it's impacted by these chemicals, and rightly so, because embalming
18:56
Speaker 1: the process itself turns the body very, very firm. It
19:01
Speaker 1: preserves the body. The folks at home will just imagine
19:05
Speaker 1: many times what an overinflated basketball feels like. That's kind
19:09
Speaker 1: of the same texture that an embalmed body has. It's
19:13
Speaker 1: it's kind of it's very firm, but yet it still
19:16
Speaker 1: has kind of a supple nature to it. But you're
19:19
Speaker 1: not going to get anything out of that body that
19:22
Speaker 1: is really worth having. Relative to fluids for toxicology, there
19:27
Speaker 1: might be a saving grace if they can go in
19:30
Speaker 1: and capture some of the tissue and look at it microscopically,
19:33
Speaker 1: but again it's a long shot. When a body is
19:38
Speaker 1: embalmed and the chemicals are flushed throughout the body, it
19:43
Speaker 1: is going in through the veins. Is it going into
19:47
Speaker 1: the organs and to the tissue as well? Yes, yes
19:50
Speaker 1: it is. And I've been involved in many what are
19:54
Speaker 1: referred to as eximations where you take the body you removed,
19:59
Speaker 1: the body is exhumed, and the body comes back to
20:02
Speaker 1: the morgue. And many times this happens as a result
20:04
Speaker 1: of the bodies not previously being an autopsy, just like
20:08
Speaker 1: in this case. And when you get that body out
20:11
Speaker 1: of the ground and you bring the body back to
20:13
Speaker 1: the morgue where you're going to do the autopsy again,
20:16
Speaker 1: when you not only is the external body kind of
20:20
Speaker 1: firm to the touch, and it's got this it's a
20:23
Speaker 1: smell that never leaves you. It's not like a decomposition.
20:25
Speaker 1: It's got this real sickly sweet odor to it, and
20:28
Speaker 1: that's the embalming fluid. And when you open the body,
20:32
Speaker 1: it just kind of slaps you right in the face
20:34
Speaker 1: and you have to kind of get past it. Because
20:36
Speaker 1: when I say it's sickly sweet, I'll put it to
20:37
Speaker 1: you this way in my experience, I would much rather
20:41
Speaker 1: be around a decomposed body than I would an embalmed body.
20:46
Speaker 1: That's how sickening smells. I listened to you and Nancy
20:50
Speaker 1: talk a lot about how bad a decomposed body smells,
20:56
Speaker 1: and how that is such a distinctive odor that you
21:00
Speaker 1: ever forget and never want to smell again. But you're
21:02
Speaker 1: telling me that an exhumed body is worse. To me,
21:06
Speaker 1: it is, and this is why when I go in
21:10
Speaker 1: as a scientist and I am examining a decomposed body
21:13
Speaker 1: and yet they are foul. I mean, it is really
21:16
Speaker 1: difficult to work in that environment. But you understand that
21:19
Speaker 1: this is a natural biological process that you're dealing with, okay,
21:25
Speaker 1: But when you start dealing with a with a previously
21:29
Speaker 1: embalmed body, there's something that's very unnatural about it. And
21:33
Speaker 1: it has again like this sickly sweet smell, and one
21:37
Speaker 1: other factor to it for me has always been in
21:40
Speaker 1: the back of my mind. When I first started the
21:43
Speaker 1: chemicals that were being used, there was some evidence at
21:46
Speaker 1: that point in time that these many of these these
21:49
Speaker 1: chemicals that were being used, particularly a long long time ago,
21:53
Speaker 1: to embalm bodies were carcinogenic. So you know, you're sitting
21:57
Speaker 1: there and you're trying to keep your mind focused on
21:59
Speaker 1: the side this examination that you're doing, but you're all
22:02
Speaker 1: the while you're thinking, well, what in the heck am
22:05
Speaker 1: I inhalating here with this sickly sweet kind of odor
22:09
Speaker 1: of death? If you will. That's that's a man made
22:11
Speaker 1: event that is on every level for me, at least,
22:15
Speaker 1: very important. Jackie. One of the biggest hurdles that that
22:37
Speaker 1: these forensic sciences started going to have to kind of
22:41
Speaker 1: negotiate as as this investigation into Tammy Daville's death, m
22:48
Speaker 1: H continues on, is this idea that her body has
22:51
Speaker 1: been embalmed, and not only has the body been embalmed,
22:54
Speaker 1: but the body's been buried. The body's been buried in
22:57
Speaker 1: another state, and the big question is what have they found?
23:05
Speaker 1: Why don't we have more information at this point in time?
23:07
Speaker 1: That absolutely is the million dollar question, Joe, And what
23:11
Speaker 1: I am curious about after authorities exhumed the body, how
23:16
Speaker 1: are they going to or how did they determine what
23:21
Speaker 1: caused Tammy's death and what did she die from? Yeah,
23:24
Speaker 1: that brings us back to the original proposition. The kids
23:29
Speaker 1: all got together with CBS on forty eight hours and
23:32
Speaker 1: actually one of the sons, I believe it was Garth
23:35
Speaker 1: Garth they Bell. He actually made the comment on air.
23:38
Speaker 1: He said, the police told us that our mother's cause
23:42
Speaker 1: of death was asphyxia, but we haven't seen an autopsy report.
23:46
Speaker 1: That's quote unquote, and so again, you know, just like
23:50
Speaker 1: these children, we have yet to see the autopsy report.
23:54
Speaker 1: But the kids are saying that they were informed that
23:57
Speaker 1: mom's death was as a result of asphyxia. Very curious
24:01
Speaker 1: that during the same interview it was kind of intimated
24:05
Speaker 1: by the kids that well, asphixia doesn't always mean homicide. Okay,
24:11
Speaker 1: well maybe that's the case, and I guess in a
24:14
Speaker 1: pure academic sense that would be the case. But you know,
24:17
Speaker 1: as as we talk about, you know, day in and
24:20
Speaker 1: day out, in these discussions that you and I have
24:22
Speaker 1: here on bodybacks, we know that most of the time,
24:27
Speaker 1: when the police start talking about asphyxia, they're going to
24:30
Speaker 1: be talking about look, one or two things. Either this
24:34
Speaker 1: is kind of a self inflicted event. You know, you
24:36
Speaker 1: begin to think about, well, maybe somebody was hung, or
24:39
Speaker 1: you know, maybe they placed a bag over their own head,
24:42
Speaker 1: and that only occurs in very rare circumstances, or they
24:47
Speaker 1: died at the hands of another individual. But right now
24:50
Speaker 1: we're left with this kind of to try to understand,
24:53
Speaker 1: how did if they did in fact, remember this hasn't
24:56
Speaker 1: come from an official source, how did they in fact
24:58
Speaker 1: come to this conclusion? And well, that would tell me
25:02
Speaker 1: that they found something on the physical body at autopsy,
25:07
Speaker 1: if this is to be believed what we heard the
25:10
Speaker 1: sun say they found something on the physical body, Well,
25:13
Speaker 1: what would that be? Was there some kind of damage
25:16
Speaker 1: to the neck that of course was not seen beforehand
25:20
Speaker 1: because there was not an autopsy immediately after death? Could
25:23
Speaker 1: you still see evidence there? Yeah? Yeah, you could see
25:26
Speaker 1: a fractured hyoid. You could see crushing trauma, and the larynx,
25:30
Speaker 1: you know, the windpipe. We've talked about that a lot.
25:33
Speaker 1: Is there a potential that you could still see PATIKUII.
25:36
Speaker 1: I think that's the big question that everybody has. I
25:39
Speaker 1: think probably if you looked close enough, particularly in the eyes.
25:43
Speaker 1: But you know the thing about morticians is that when
25:47
Speaker 1: they embalm the body, they do a curious thing with
25:51
Speaker 1: the eyes. They actually put cups, these little these little
25:56
Speaker 1: cups over the eyes and close the eyelids and then
26:00
Speaker 1: glue the eyelids shut, and they do that with the
26:03
Speaker 1: mouth as well. And my question is if there is
26:07
Speaker 1: PATIKII present on the surface what's referred to as the
26:11
Speaker 1: clural surface of the eye, is it still appreciable after
26:15
Speaker 1: all this time. Remember she was actually in the ground
26:18
Speaker 1: for weeks Jackie, and I mean for weeks down there
26:22
Speaker 1: in Utah before they ever examined a body. And here's
26:24
Speaker 1: another factor that you have to put into all of this,
26:26
Speaker 1: because not only was she embalmed and then transported down there,
26:31
Speaker 1: but she was placed into into this grave. What condition
26:35
Speaker 1: was the grave then? Had it been compromised in anyway?
26:39
Speaker 1: Was it? You know, they the funeral business sells coffins
26:43
Speaker 1: to people on the with the idea that this thing
26:47
Speaker 1: is going to be sealed, it will be sealed forever
26:49
Speaker 1: and ever, amen, and that nothing's going to impact the bodies.
26:53
Speaker 1: I've done a lot of exlimations. Bodies get impacted. So
26:57
Speaker 1: I wonder how good was this, How effective was the embalming,
27:02
Speaker 1: because sometimes embalming can go bad and you'll begin to
27:05
Speaker 1: have little focal areas of decomposition that impact certain areas
27:10
Speaker 1: of tissue. Is there any chance that that happened in
27:13
Speaker 1: the case. So it's really hard to try to understand
27:17
Speaker 1: how these individuals at the Utah State Medical Examiner's office,
27:23
Speaker 1: which is where her body eventually went to after the exhamation,
27:26
Speaker 1: what kind of conclusions did they arrive at that point
27:29
Speaker 1: in time? And I get the feeling we're going to
27:30
Speaker 1: find out something really soon, Jackie, because there are number
27:33
Speaker 1: of trials on slate that are going to be that
27:37
Speaker 1: are just over the horizon, and at that point in time,
27:40
Speaker 1: evidence is going to have to be presented and questions
27:44
Speaker 1: will be asked. We'll just find out what kind of
27:46
Speaker 1: answers we get to them. One of the things you mentioned,
27:48
Speaker 1: Joe was how long Tammy had been buried, While along
27:53
Speaker 1: with that came how long it took for us to
27:56
Speaker 1: have any findings, even just knowing that the autopsy itself
28:01
Speaker 1: was completed. Why is that what took so long? Yeah,
28:04
Speaker 1: that that's that's a fantastic question, jack I gotta tell you,
28:08
Speaker 1: I've thought about this quite a bit and around kind
28:12
Speaker 1: of been the un this odd universe of these Day
28:16
Speaker 1: Belle cases. We've got all these other deaths that are involved,
28:21
Speaker 1: and let's think about all of the different jurisdictions. Well,
28:24
Speaker 1: now we've got Idaho, We've got Utah involved because of Tammy,
28:29
Speaker 1: and we go down to to Arizona where we've got
28:33
Speaker 1: deaths down there that are you know, at least peripherally
28:35
Speaker 1: involved in in these cases. And then you've got these
28:40
Speaker 1: two individuals with UH with Chad and Lorie that run
28:46
Speaker 1: off to to Hawaii to get to get married. What
28:51
Speaker 1: you're looking at here is a multi jurisdictional event, Jackie.
28:56
Speaker 1: And yeah, the you know, the people in Idaho are
28:59
Speaker 1: going to have first shot at you know, having a
29:01
Speaker 1: prosecution here, but you have to understand there's there are
29:06
Speaker 1: other jurisdictions that have kind of authority in this. Even
29:11
Speaker 1: the FEDS have an interest in this. Let's think about
29:15
Speaker 1: JJ and Tyly. Well, where were they actually kind of
29:19
Speaker 1: last seen with videography? Well we know that at least
29:27
Speaker 1: Tylely the last time I think she was seeing was
29:30
Speaker 1: over in Yellowstone. Well who controls Yellowstone, Jackie, that's FEDS.
29:35
Speaker 1: That's the FEDS. And then you've got people crossing state lines,
29:38
Speaker 1: so you know you might have a federal interest here
29:41
Speaker 1: as well. So I'm really wondering if they are not
29:43
Speaker 1: holding back information because they're trying to get this case
29:48
Speaker 1: put together that is highly, highly complex and very very complicated.
29:54
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks