Latest / Modern Sacred: Women's Work / Nervous System Regulation for Beginners: A Key Skill in the Embodied Woman's Journey
Transcript
- Chelsea Henderson: Hello, hello. Welcome back, everyone. We're here for another episode of Modern Sacred Podcast and we've got George for any of our video listeners. Hello, Abby: Yay, George. Chelsea Henderson: hello. First man on the podcast is for for our Abby: Yes. First man on the podcast. Chelsea Henderson: audio listeners. this is George. He is my little puppy. And yeah. Abby: He's so cute. Chelsea Henderson: He's the patriarchy, my friends. This is the face of the patriarchy. that's true. He is not neutered. So Abby: That's right. He is intact. He is not neutered. So, you know, he is a he is an intact patriarchal man and he's obsessed with women. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Yeah, he really is actually. I feel like that's more because he just really loves that mom energy. Less the power sexual Abby: Yes he does. Chelsea Henderson: thing, but maybe they're all tied together. Who knows? Okay, so Abby: Hm. Unless you're Kelly. And then he loves you. Chelsea Henderson: Man does he love Kelly. Our friend Kelly was over last week and yeah, he was having a hard time leaving her alone. He was like, okay, I love you, let's get married. Abby: Yeah he was. Chelsea Henderson: Anyway, welcome to our dog podcast, everyone. We're here to talk about dogs. All right, so we were just chatting beforehand. We were talking about what to talk about. And We're just thinking we wanna dive in, right? And just talk about the nervous system. Because as I joked about in our last newsletter, no one is talking about the nervous system. This is completely pioneer shit here. We're we're talking about something totally Abby: That's right. Chelsea Henderson: new and unique. I joke. okay, why do we want to talk about it? Because I feel like this summer has been incredibly challenging to Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: Be in and be present in. And I think a lot of what we're talking about in this space is being present through all the means. And if we can be present then Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: we can enjoy this all a lot more and do this all a lot better. And by this all I mean life. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: and I think with the incredible heat that seems to be kind of a global affliction. and trying to be all things to all people as the women and as the keepers of everything. it's felt incredibly hard for me to stay regulated in my own Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: body. And I'll say Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: I I don't know how good at bad I've ever really been. And like it's just been starting to occur to me as we've been really diving into this work and these last several years of being a mother, how much I was kinda just s just glossing over that whole part of my experience of just you know, Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: I thought of caring for myself in still pretty perfunctory ways. I was not I didn't realize the power I had in that space, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. And how much paying Abby: Hmm. Like Chelsea Henderson: attention to this beautiful body and caring for it would allow me to have a better experience in this life and be better to Abby: Mm. Chelsea Henderson: those I love. So I feel like that's kind of where we were headed with this conversation. And then you brought up since you've been going through this move and starting this new job and also the heat. Abby: Ugh Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: You were here last week with me and it was a hundred degrees every day and we were melting and we were just not we were not top performing. So yeah, I guess that's kinda it. Like how you know, how do we wanna approach it? How do we wanna dive in? I will say, and then I'll stop talking. my god. I feel a little corny having this conversation because I feel like Abby: Mm. Chelsea Henderson: this is Things become trendy for a reason, but I feel like it is like one Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: of those things. Like this is the bone broth of the moment, maybe like a little bit. And probably for good reason. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: but I can't help but feel a little silly, like, this is this topic that we just came up with. Like, no, it's not. It's Abby: Talk talking about like a big topic. Well, it's always interesting to me though, Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: because just like when if you're a Jeep owner and you're really into your Jeep, you notice all the other Jeeps and then you find other Jeep people and you're like, everybody knows about Jeeps. But I've noticed in my mind or in my sphere that I think everybody knows about nervous system regulation and then I will talk to people who have never heard of it. And it's a good reminder of me, like just because something is a buzzword in my own little world does not mean that it is common knowledge at all. And it could be that the people in our podcast sphere it is common knowledge because we reach out to or we attract and and vibe with conscious women living consciously and women who, you know, love women's empowerment and somatics and the mind body connection, they do yoga, they do breath work. So the people who are listening to this podcast might be like, Yeah, no, nervous system regulation. I get it. But for anyone out there who's listening who's like, what does that Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: mean? I've not heard of that. Like what? Your your nervous system like what I learned about in fifth grade? Like, you know, skeletal system, nervous system, like brain and spinal cord. Like what are we even talking about? So I think it's good to really open Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: up the subject and talk about it. F then just fill in any gaps. People might have. Chelsea Henderson: So can then can you from y with your nursing background, can would you mind just giving a little kind of more practical overview Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: of what that means? Abby: I would love to. That'd be great. okay, so let's just dive in from the top. So your nervous system is a big umbrella term for like all of these other systems going on in your body. We obviously have like the brain and the spinal cord. That's your central nervous system. And then your peripheral nerves that branch out from the spinal cord into your arms, your legs, your heart, your diaphragm. That is a different nervous system, your peripheral nervous system. So we maybe have all heard of fight, flight, freeze. These are branches of your nervous system that are kind of these like automatic. Gosh, I feel like I need like a chart. Okay, so you have your automatic nervous system, also called Chelsea Henderson: Get a whiteboard. Abby: your autonomic. I know I'm like, I need my chart of like the nervous system. You have your autonomic nervous system. I like to think of that as the automatic nervous system. These are the reactions going on in your body every day that you don't have conscious control over. This is your heart rate, your respiratory rate, if your blood is going to your muscles or your gut, this is how big your pupils are or not, this is if you're making saliva or not. These are all the things that are going on that we can't like control. I can't like tell my pupils to get bigger right now. so that's the autonomic, automatic Chelsea Henderson: Right. Abby: nervous system. And then you have your nervous system that's within your conscious control, your volatil voluntary skeletal muscles, like putting up your hair or scratching your face, or if you have to pee really, really bad, but you're like giving a presentation at work and you're like holding it in, that is you overriding your autonomic, which is like we have to pee, and you're using your conscious control to squeeze those sphincters and be like, nope, we're not doing that right now. So there can sometimes be like a little bit of a battle. between your Chelsea Henderson: Right. Abby: like automatic and your conscious. But within the automatic nervous system, we have the sympathetic and the parasympathetic response. This is probably what people are a little more familiar with, which is sympathetic is fight, flight. And the parasympathetic is that more ease, flow, digestion. So the parasympathetic is called the feed and breed or the rest and digest part of your nervous system. This is when you're feeling really calm and relaxed. And then the sympathetic nervous system is that fight or flight. heart is racing, like if you see a snake on the trail while you're hiking, and your heart is racing and your pupils get big and your breathing quickens and you jump 10 feet backwards. Before you've even really realized that there's a snake. Like all of these automatic reactions happen before you go, your our slow little brains go, There's a snake on the trail. And all of a sudden, like, Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Abby: but you're already 10 feet back. Like your body is it's got this amazing wiring to keep us safe. but that can just ca Chelsea Henderson: Yes. Abby: it can cause problems when, you know, in the modern world. We wire safety to things like money and and housing and our jobs and getting a promotion or not. So like our safety has become much more complex than just like access to a stream and a cave to sleep in. It has become this very Chelsea Henderson: Right. Abby: complex web of things that we need to feel safe. And if any of those things are shifting, then it can trigger that fight or flight. And that's where We're just always anxious and always really uptight or shoulders are up to our ears. We're not breathing. Deep breaths. Our heart is racing and things like that. So that's just maybe like a a very bird's eye view. And I feel like maybe could have explained it better, but yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Wait, but is that no, I love it. I think that was very help even some things that I feel like I haven't heard as much about. I I think that also the bird's eye view is always helpful, right? I mean this is I don't don't Abby: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: take for granted that most of us don't have that knowledge, right? So that's really good to kind of put things Abby: Exactly. Chelsea Henderson: in place. Also, so I'm curious when we are in that right, like we have all heard of the fight f flight. Freeze. Abby: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: And now it's also fawn, right? We know that some people fawn, which I totally get that. I hate myself for it when I'm like in those moments and I'm like, Abby: Yeah, I do too. Chelsea Henderson: it's totally fine. Do whatever you want. And I completely disagree with everything happening, but I can't kind of like get Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: into a a different position with it. so that's all the system releasing different kind like hormones, right? So then is that where does cortisol fit into that? Because I know that that is one of those hormones that I hear about and then the other question I have is where does the vagus nerve fit in? Because I have this mild obsession with the vagus nerve, but I don't I don't totally Abby: Yeah. Yeah, me too. Chelsea Henderson: get it. I just know that OSTIA makes this oil and this bath oil for for vagus nerve for vagus nerve calming. And so I of course through like Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: products right through products that I line with, I feel like I have a relationship Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: with it. But I would love to hear what that looks like from the Abby: Yeah, okay. Great, great Chelsea Henderson: your perspective, the medical perspective. Abby: questions, great questions. so let's start Chelsea Henderson: Thank you. Abby: with the cortisol question. When your brain registers a threat, And again, like I said, it's very complex what our threats are now. It's not just like an animal chasing you in the woods. It is an email from your boss that says, Come see me in my office when you get a chance. And you're like, ooh, like, am I getting fired? Am I getting a promotion? Am I in trouble? You know, all of these like and then it's like, if I get fired, I'm gonna lose my job and I can't pay rent. And it's like, whoa, okay, now we're off to the races. Chelsea Henderson: Right. Right. Abby: So our brain registers a threat. and then When when our brain I mean our brains are so good at always scanning the horizon for patterns Chelsea Henderson: Right. Abby: that have been threatening in the past. So it's always scanning Chelsea Henderson: Mm. Abby: for those patterns. So if when you're a little kid, your mom was like, Come and see me in you know, come inside and like this I don't know, you would be like, I'm in trouble. Like those vagues come Chelsea Henderson: Okay. Abby: talk to me mean I'm in trouble. So then you apply that to your boss, whatever. So when you register a threat, your body starts to send off signals and hormones that would prepare you to face that threat. So that is adrenaline, cortisol. Cortisol is a stress hormone. It's released from your adrenal glands, which sit on top of your kidneys, and these release you know, epinephrine, adrenaline, cortisol. These are the stress hormones. That is what gets your heart racing. and your breathing fast and shallow dries out your mouth and all of those things so that's like what's happening with our stress response hormonally and then let me see if there's anything else I wanted to say about that. cortisol is normal and healthy. We all have cortisol. Sometimes I think cortisol is given just a blanket bad wrap. But every single one of us as we start to detect like sunlight when we're sleeping, you're starting to sense that it's becoming light out, your body naturally slows down melatonin. Chelsea Henderson: for our listeners, we've had some tech issues and we're having a hard time getting a consistent recording here. Abby just dropped out and I will say that you're talking about modern life triggering these responses. This feels like Abby: Yep, this is part of it. Chelsea Henderson: a threat to me. It feels like a threat. I feel like failure just happened, but we're recording Abby: Hmm? Chelsea Henderson: in an insulated environment. It's just you and I. Like, this is not live. We're not on television. Like I it's really interesting how that relates to what we're talking about. Like these types of things Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: send my so what that's my body. You're talking about cortisol being a good thing and being necessary. It helps wake you up in the morning. It helps like like that is a Abby: Yep, it helps keep you going. Yeah. You need it to survive. Otherwise you would never get out of bed. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: But then it and that's amazing. Right. Which of co you know, there you go. That's a good thing. And also it's Abby: And it can help you adapt to stress, you know, like, okay, like the the traffic, Chelsea Henderson: Okay, okay. Abby: like okay, there's a lot of traffic going on, like it helps you become more aware, it helps you be you you think a little bit faster. Like there are certain times Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: where it's just so good to have it. but yeah, keep going. What were you saying? Chelsea Henderson: Right. But well so like in this moment it's probably less necessary, right? Like we just have to keep doing what we're doing. None of this is high stakes. This is a conversation between best friends, like just connecting around things that matter to us. Like this Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: is all very in in nature beautiful and good. But these moments Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: make it feel a little existential in my body, which is really goofy when I think about it more Abby: Mm. Chelsea Henderson: analytically. in that moment where like you dropped off and I'm sitting here staring at myself going, Well, what the fuck are we doing? Is that cortisol is being flooded into my ki no, they it lives the glands live on top of the kidneys. It's being flooded into my system because I'm perceiving Abby: Mm-hmm. Yep. Into your bloodstream. Chelsea Henderson: a threat, right? So like in our old Abby: Yes. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: days, this is if you and I were walking through the woods having this conversation and I see a stick that looks like a snake and there are poisonous snakes in our area, that perception of threat would be a lot more real and something to act on. Let's jump away from this area. Abby: Yeah. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Let's get out of here. In this moment, Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: we can't really do much with that, right? We just have to wait for the internet Abby: Hmm. Chelsea Henderson: to kick back in, to reconnect us. Like it's so Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: The actions we would take and the response, they're not matched up, right? And and the threats are not, right? There's nothing existential here. So Abby: Yeah. Yeah. Which it's interesting when we are look when we begin to analyze like there's two parts to nervous system regulation. There's probably more than two parts, but in right now I'm just thinking two parts. Both why is what I perceive as a threat why do I perceive it as a threat? Is it this is the therapy Chelsea Henderson: Right. Abby: side of it? This is was it my mom? Is it anything unexpected? triggers something in me just like a snake being seen on the trail, like unexpected. is it past trauma? Is it what's going on? Why? 'Cause I in this moment I am having no nervous system activation to what just happened. I'm like my heart is not beating fast, I'm not frustrated, I'm not activated at all from that, but put me on an airplane and I'm really activated even though it's the safest way to travel and like I'm about to have a panic attack. Chelsea Henderson: Mm-mm. Totally. Yes. Abby: And why do I perceive threats of an airplane as dangerous? I mean it's just kind of like, okay, you can analyze the threats and do some work there with like cognitive behavioral therapy and kind of trying to like exposure therapy. For me it's really good to Chelsea Henderson: Right. Abby: be on a lot of flights. Honestly, the more I fly, the less afraid of flying I am. If I go two years Chelsea Henderson: Okay. Abby: without getting on a plane, it's like worse. Chelsea Henderson: Okay, makes sense, yes. Abby: The more that I fly, the more I'm like, I'm okay. See, you were fine, like you did okay. so there's like different Chelsea Henderson: Right. We didn't crash. Abby: thoughts with all of that, like exposure therapy and everything, but there's this new kind of new, in quotes, train of thought. it's called a body first or a body-based approach, which Chelsea Henderson: Mm. Abby: is your brain, is your brain responding to your body, or is your body responding to your brain? And Chelsea Henderson: fascinating. Abby: What I mean by that is like some t like we said with that snake on the trail, your body reacts to that before your brain has even registered that that's a snake. Like it's so fast. So our body, our brain, it's always scanning our environment for things that could be a threat to us. And sometimes it's reacting before our brain has even realized the threat. So then there's this new wave of thought of what does it look like to kind of put the brain and the thoughts and all of that analyzing on the shelf and just work with the body and calming Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: the body and helping the body feel safe. And you asked about the vagal nerve and that's exactly Chelsea Henderson: That's kinda right up our alley. Yes. Abby: where the vagal nerve comes in, the vagus nerve. Chelsea Henderson: Wait, wait. Abby: yeah, go ahead. Chelsea Henderson: Well, I was just gonna say you said two things about the nervous system. The perception, right? But what was the other thing? Did I miss it? Did you say it and I missed it? Abby: Yeah. I think what I it was I it's both the perception of the threat and then also just our body's response to threats. It's like is it the brain or is it the body? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Okay, okay, so that body f right. Okay. So that body first, which I find fascinating because I think you and I have both found so much and I I'm always struggling with how to put this, right? Trying not to be too grandiose, trying not to be too, you know, self self obsessed. but the the embodiment practices, how they have shifted so much of the quality of life for myself, right? And I I feel like you and I have Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: experienced this simultaneously throughout this work and in similar ways. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: And It's interesting because I think we live in a time that's very heady. You know, we live in a time that's very Abby: Very Chelsea Henderson: analytical. We're a thinking society. You know, even therapy. I I've been in talk therapy since I was a young teen and I love it. It's a great space. It's a great space to hold myself accountable, to process interpersonal issues that I have. I love a good therapist who will ask me to stop and pause and, you know, what's the story here? But I I think that's all extremely important. And I feel like I benefit from it greatly. And I do one somatic workshop and I have moved mountains in my way. And so it's pretty Abby: Mm. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: wild what's being held in the body. Yeah. Abby: Yeah. It's pretty cool what's coming out with somatic practices, breath work, and for real, that stuff moves things, or Chelsea Henderson: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Abby: just an awareness of nervous system regulation being more about the body and less about the analytical thinking mind. there's so much Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: that the body holds inside of itself that is waiting to be processed. Chelsea Henderson: Mm. Abby: And that's another interesting thing about the nervous system when it comes to trauma. Trauma, I used to think of it as capital T trauma, which is like hurricanes, earthquakes, sexual assault, you know, seeing something really big. But trauma is when your nervous system feels like the threat is too big to handle. So that could be like if you didn't get any sleep, Chelsea Henderson: Honey. Abby: And you've got two little kids under five and they didn't get any sleep, one of them's got a stomach bug, and your husband just lost his job and there's all this stuff going on, and you get into a little fender bender on your way to take the kid somewhere, that could just so overwhelm your already overwhelmed nervous system that it is an extremely traumatic event. and then you have a big phobia of driving and even getting in the steering wheel gives you like racing heart panic attacks versus Chelsea Henderson: Wow. Abby: another version of you who slept great, doesn't have kids, or the kids are are doing cr great and just got out of a yoga class and you had your full Chelsea Henderson: Right. Abby: thing of water and you get into a fender bender and you go, it's all good. We t we just exchange information, it's fine. So why is the same Chelsea Henderson: Right. Abby: event traumatic to someone and not to someone else? And it's because your nervous system, trauma is whenever your nervous system feels like it can't hold what's being thrown at it. And we sometimes hold that trauma in Chelsea Henderson: Huh. Wow. Abby: our bodies as well, where your Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Abby: nervous system will hide it. Well, it will hide Chelsea Henderson: Mm. Abby: that traumatic sensation somewhere in your body to be processed later. And this is where we can have like flashbacks. Is there's like this residual energy of trauma being held in our bodies that is trying to come out and be processed. But if your mind isn't in a Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: place or you don't have good social support to like be held, we just keep shoving that shit down Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: with a bottle of wine or smoking a ton of weed or watching a ton of movies because it's like I couldn't Handle those big feelings Chelsea Henderson: Yep. Abby: then and I can't handle them now. So when are we in Chelsea Henderson: Right. Abby: a place that's safe to let them out? I mean, when is this trauma gonna be processed? And then you go to a breath work ceremony where you are Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: in it for an hour, you're breathing deep, you're breathing fast, you're holding, you're exhaling, you're holding, you're doing these like body movements, and it's in a way it's like allowing the trauma that's stored in your body to release. And truly release, and Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: it's a safe container with the facilitator, and everything you might start crying, you might start you like all of these things will happen, but it's like in this beautiful ritual that it's okay and it releases and it actually releases. Like it's gone, which is really amazing. And some people Chelsea Henderson: Right. Okay. Abby: will do something like that and feel like, wow, like I no longer have Panic attacks or I no longer have a hard time driving like before you know, it something shifted. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. So is that I've heard about this idea of that emotions are chemical, right? There there's hormonal reactions and there's you know, obviously situational, there's there's all these elements to it, but that the the actual visceral body response we're getting is it's different hormones being released in response to different experiences. And so Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: I've heard about letting it fully cycle, right? Like if I around Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: you know, it when I was younger my mother got sick and I was young, I had a lot of influences from different places and I thought stoicism was like the cool girl thing to do, right? Like I you know, I Abby: Right. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: wanted to be loved, I wanted to be accepted and I wanted to be, you know, tough. And I had never been tough. And so it was very much a practice in that moment of my life to not feel the feelings 'cause I thought that was stoicism and stoicism was cool. Cool. I mean I was fifteen, so that meant a lot more back then. But that it was also just like that was the way through, right? Like to be stoic, to you know, to bypass almost. I didn't realize that. But then in not feeling those feelings through fully to the cycle, is that the stuckness, right? Like if I felt like I needed to cry and I didn't cry and I clenched my teeth and I bit my tongue, is that Is that causing this the stuckness because I'm not letting the cycle go all the way through, right? Like I had chemicals pouring into Abby: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: my system because I was afraid and I was s sad and I was s you know, all those things. And then if I clinch down and I don't let the expression happen, then that those chemicals are not able to fully leave and then they get stored in the tissues. Is that kind of what's happening? Abby: Yeah. I think it's little less the chemicals themselves that get stored, but more some so there's this guy, this author, his name's Peter Levine, and he has the Chelsea Henderson: Uh-huh. Abby: somatic experiencing framework and he's created this framework. He has a book called Waking the Tiger and he talks about it's more like energy of the experience that's being Chelsea Henderson: Okay. Abby: held. And he talks a lot about like Chelsea Henderson: Okay. Abby: the gazelle being chased by the lion. And we talked about this a little bit when I was there, but the gazelle, it r you know, it runs, fight, flight, you know, it's flying, it's running as fast as it can. If it starts to feel like all hope is lost, it gets a bite on its hind leg and it's like, That's it, I'm done, it will get so overwhelmed that it faints. And that is Chelsea Henderson: Okay. Abby: where if the nervous system gets so overwhelmed to the point that it feels like death is imminent, we will faint and collapse. And a lot of times in the Chelsea Henderson: It's shut down. Abby: wild, what can happen, we shut down. What can happen is then the tiger thinks I've caught it, I've killed it, and it will actually drag it to some shade or to its layer and it will want to save it for later. and then the gazelle will kind of like wake back up and will it first it will stand up and it will tremble from tip to tail severely. It will look like it is shivering in like the freezing cold. But that is releasing all of that energy of having almost died. And then Chelsea Henderson: Right. Right, right. Abby: it will kind of shake. It does that, you know, that dog shake and takes a deep breath and then it steadies itself and it bolts. And that whole cycle Chelsea Henderson: Okay. Abby: is how these animals avoid trauma. Even though they live in like a really harsh environment, not like it will just go about grazing Chelsea Henderson: Totally. Abby: later that afternoon like nothing happened. Because it completed this cycle. And they've even looked at in animals where you stop that cycle, they will have PTSD. They'll have a lot of issues if you don't let them go through that whole cycle. Yeah. Yeah. So it's really important Chelsea Henderson: Ha no. That's crazy. Okay. Abby: for ourselves to like Let us go through the whole cycle. but similarly, I mean we shut it down. That's the patriarchy. That's the patriarchy stoicism and don't feel your feelings. you know, Chelsea Henderson: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Abby: I as an ICU nurse, I would see have a patient die and I'm feeling a lot of big feelings and shaking and wanting to cry. And my charge nurse would be like, We have another one for you. Bag and tag and let's get it get this room clean. Chelsea Henderson: Right. Yeah. Abby: And I'm like, I don't have time. To cry and break down for two hours. So you shove it down and Chelsea Henderson: Button up bitch. Right, right. Abby: like that energy doesn't just get a chance to cycle. So then if I go into a breath work ceremony or something like that, that energy will reactivate and then all of the chemicals start happening. So it's not that like the chemicals get stored somewhere. It's more that this like energetic cycle didn't get to release all of the energy of that experience. Chelsea Henderson: Okay. Abby: but it's still like held there, like in your nervous system. Chelsea Henderson: Right. Abby: It's not resolved. Chelsea Henderson: So then 'Cause I know we know some folks and I've done some versions of this before. I mean, I think that's where the somatic therapy is really shining through, is that it's actually activating your body you're engaging your body, right? You're not just thinking Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: it through, which is where I think Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: we can get stuck, right? It's just the thinking it over and over again somehow doesn't Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: fully process it. So then if you bring the body in and you are engaging in breath work or like I know some of the folks in our sphere. do like TRE, which is the the actual like trembling. I have sh literally yeah, Abby: Yeah. Trauma release, yep, where you get your body to tremble. Chelsea Henderson: I have literally shaken, like shaken it off before when working with certain therapists Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: around certain things. i it and Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: is that i it even like okay we can go back into the vagus nerve right but if I I know that like Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: there's you know even just certain like the deep breath can activate the you know, the Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: other side of the nervous system which can calm journaling, speaking to it, right, sharing with others. So these Abby: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: are all our kind of natural shake it off, right? That's our gazelle Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: move to be like, okay Now you know, is that is there something else there that I'm missing that from that perspective of the body? Abby: Yeah. I think what we're talking about is the difference between nervous system regulation as a baseline practice and what we've started talking about in the last ten minutes, which is trauma. So trauma Chelsea Henderson: Right, okay. Abby: is that whole cycle of like something big happens that your body can't doesn't have the capacity to handle and it it's like, we'll handle that later and then later never comes because there's never like capacity to handle it. And then Chelsea Henderson: Right. Abby: it it just you get stuck in numbing and paralyzing and drinking and doing things to just avoid ever feeling those feelings. Chelsea Henderson: Right. Abby: but something I wanted to share, and then I'll talk about Vagal, Vegas nerve and everything, was I used to tremble all whenever I would talk about my upbringing and my mom. I used to shiver so bad. It was so embarrassing. I just didn't know what was going on and I would start to shake. And I even had some therapists where that would happen and they would say, like, okay, let's let's stop, let's pause, let's take some deep breaths until the shaking stopped. But it was pretty pervasive. Anytime I would talk about my mom, my upbringing, I would start trembling. And then I worked with my friend, which we should actually have her on the podcast. She's a fellow nurse. She is a plant medicine guide and she does cannabis ceremonies and as a plant medicine. So she came over to my house, her and I met And she came over to my house and she I smoked some weed and I put on a blindfold and she had like music and and she just took me into wherever the medicine wanted to take me and I started to talk about my upbringing and I started to tremble really bad and she was the first person in my life, despite having seen therapists who said, just tremble. Just tremble. Chelsea Henderson: No. Abby: Don't try to make it go away. Don't try to deep breathe through it. I am here. I'm holding the space. The medicine has brought you to this. And so just shake it out. Just let your body shake. And I shook so bad. Like you could have it was wild. You would have thought I was having a seizure. How much I was trembling. Chelsea Henderson: Jeez. Abby: And I'm so thankful for Betsy for not getting in herself freaked out. Like, my God, what am I doing to Abby? But she was just like, Yep, Chelsea Henderson: Mm Betsy Yes Huge. Abby: let it go. Yep, shake it out. It's okay. It's safe. 'Cause she was aware of this somatic experiencing and she was like, This is your body releasing the energy of being a little kid and seeing your parents fight Chelsea Henderson: Yes. Abby: and seeing all this and you didn't have capacity to hold it, but like I'm here to hold it with you. You can let it go and and I shook Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: so bad and then it naturally started to resolve and I have never shaken when talking about my family ever again. And it's something that followed me my whole life. Chelsea Henderson: That is so amazing. That's amazing. And it's so powerful. That's so powerful. Yeah, absolutely. Abby: Yeah. Something released because I was allowed to tremble. Mm-hmm. It's really powerful. And it shifted a lot of my thought process around like even within myself where I'm like, okay, uh-oh, like calm down, calm up, breathe through it, like let's shut this down. Chelsea Henderson: Right, right. Abby: Which is where ritual and containers of healing are so important because yeah, when you're at work, when you're driving, when these times when this stuff starts like coming up aren't the times to process it, but working with someone who's familiar with these modalities, going to a breath work ceremony where this is the space to let it all out is like just so Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: beautiful. And I love to see that it's more common. Yeah. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: It is. I do too. And and I co so ca but just for a second here, you just identified that we had moved from ner nervous system regulation to trauma and the nervous system. And Abby: Yeah, yep. Chelsea Henderson: I see this massive intersection in myself that And I'm curious your thoughts on this, that if there if my nervous system feels shut down in certain ways in certain times in certain areas due to my trauma, how easy is it going to be Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: to regulate on a daily basis? And then when we're talking about like you and I have talked a lot Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: just in our personal lives, and I talk about this a lot with with other women friends, the privilege that we have to be comfortable enough in in our material, in our in our human Lives to even have these conversations, right? So, what about the single mom Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: working three jobs? You know, holy shit, Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: I can't even imagine. And the reality is that's the majority of humanity is, you know, is in that Abby: Yeah, exactly. Chelsea Henderson: kind of set of folks who they're being bombarded, and the system that exists unfortunately thrives off of that. It is designed to perpetrate that upon them over and over again. again to keep them so overwhelmed that they can't do anything more. So how do we reach a point Abby: Yeah. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: where where that shif shifts, right? Like do with I guess chicken or egg, right? Like if I have a traumatized nervous system that's used to just being like, nope, can't handle it. Like, where's that six pack? Where's that, you know, whatever it is Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: to keep me from feeling this and and I don't have the tools, then how likely would it be to like regulate your nervous system on any regular basis. You know, which has to come first, which is Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: more you know, I don't know. I guess that just it sparked a kind of a curiosity in me. I'd be interested in your thoughts. Abby: Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, there's so much that we're learning about nervous system regulation and there's even something interesting about engaging with the natural behavior that's wanting to happen. And the thought that a a story that I'm thinking of, which I think I read in that Waking the Tiger Peter Levine book, is there's a group of boys who get trapped inside of a cave. And all the other boys are just like, no, we're trapped. Woe is me, we're trapped when they're scared and they're shut down and they're not engaging with like trying to get out. And then there was this one boy who was like, No, guys, we can like dig ourselves out of this. Come on, get up, like take this rock, take this rock. And he was very much like engaging with like the fight and flight, and like, I think we can get out of this. And he they Chelsea Henderson: Right. Abby: were actually able to all group together and get out. And the who Actively was like, we can get out of this. He didn't develop any PTSD, but all the other boys did. And I'm probably butchering Chelsea Henderson: Whoa. Abby: the story, but that was the the consensus or the what he was trying to say there was that sometimes engaging with like if you feel like you need to fight, like fight, you know, like if you are the single mom working three jobs, sometimes that can like. If you are like, no, I'm not just gonna surrender to this victimhood, or I'm not gonna, I'm gonna get myself out of this and we are going to save, we are gonna get out of debt, and we are gonna do what we need to do. Sometimes they cannot develop trauma because they're like empowered. And so it's there's Chelsea Henderson: Wild. Yeah. Abby: this interesting thing that happens between empowerment and victimhood that when you're like, no, it's too big for me to handle, well, that's trauma, right? The nervous system says that's too big to handle. But if you're like, no, I can do Chelsea Henderson: Mm. Abby: this, I can fight this. And I see that with some single moms out there where they're like, Holy shit, you are you are fucking slaying it. You've got a business, you've got Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: three kids, and like you're thriving, you know, you're really slaying it. Obviously Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Right. Abby: a lot of them aren't, and it's really hard, but the it's it's still interesting why we develop trauma and then also your support system has a big Part to play because if you feel like there are people around you to catch you if you fall, yes, you're treading water, yes, the bills are coming, but you know that like if you got evicted, you could all go to your mom's house and she would take you in. Chelsea Henderson: Right. Abby: That like safety net, it's real. I mean, I feel that way with you. I'm like, if everything if something were to happen, like I could Chelsea Henderson: Hmm. Abby: probably stay with Chelsea, you know, like and she would, you know, get me back up on my feet, Chelsea Henderson: Yes, come live in our basement. Abby: and knowing that is really big part of nervous system regulation is like knowing that you Chelsea Henderson: Yes. Abby: have a safety net. Yeah. There's a lot that goes Chelsea Henderson: Okay. Abby: into our nervous system and why we might feel secure or not. And so then to shift over to like nervous system regulation, not so much the trauma. A Chelsea Henderson: Right. Abby: big part of that is like a community. Having community, having social connections for our species is a big soothing. It soothes your nervous system in a major way to know that like I have people who love me and I can call someone if I'm freaking out and they're gonna walk me through it. I can stay with Chelsea if something happened to Zach. I Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: could stay with my mom, you know, like there are just those different things that help us feel safe. Chelsea Henderson: Right. Yeah. And then s okay, so we've talked about the trauma component and then let's assume that you know, no human life goes untouched by trauma in one way or the other, right? And obviously Abby: And yeah. Chelsea Henderson: it's very subjective to this, you know, the person, the situation, lots of factors there, right? But let's say a person like myself who has had a lot of opportunity to heal trauma, to acknowledge that it is exists in myself, to see where it starts to affect me. And I've dealt with that. And I'm just now look and and dealt with it. I mean it's Always gonna come up, but let's just say I've got I've cleaned that slate a little bit, and now I'm looking to just regulate on a more daily level, right? Like creating that good community, we're social creatures, we're pack animals. That's obvious. That feels like so important, and it's harder and harder to do in this modern world. We are packed on top of each other, and no one has any any friends, Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: you know. It's it's crazy. We don't even know our neighbors half the time, Abby: Yeah, it's bizarre. Chelsea Henderson: and that's culturally, that's designed, right? Again, it's easier to oppress when people. People don't have basic basic elements like that. That's, you know, again, we could talk about that all day. But then we're looking at, okay, so then where are we at with this? Is this about the deep breathing? Is this about meditation? Is this about good food? Is this about water? Is this about, you know, like talking to yourself? Like, what Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: does that look like? Abby: Okay, yes, let's get into that. it's something I'm really passionate about. So this is where the vagal vagus nerve comes in. for anybody out there who's maybe not Chelsea Henderson: Yes. Abby: as familiar, the vagal nerve is a huge nerve that goes from the base of your skull. It's one of the big nerves that goes all through your body, it goes through your lung your heart, your lungs, your diaphragm, your intestines, all the way down to your rectum. And it is 75% made of sensory fibers. And it it controls your parasympathetic response. So what that means to break that Chelsea Henderson: Okay. Abby: down is your remember your parasympathetic response is that rest and digest, feed and breed, calm, relaxed state. So this vagus nerve is what controls that on switch to help you the on-switch of like, okay, we can relax. It's made of 75-80% sensory fibers, meaning that it is sensing into your heart and your lungs and your diaphragm and your gut. Is it safe? It doesn't have eyes. It's just got senses. And it's sensing tension in your stomach, re you know, breathing that's shallow, a heartbeat that's fast, tightness in your shoulders. Tightness in your rectum. If it's sensing all of that, it's like we must not be safe. We must not be safe. She's really tightened up, so there must be a threat. So let's keep the sympathetic on. Let's stay in fight or flight. And what and again it's sensory nerves. So what we can do is to help our vagus nerve understand that we are safe is relax your belly. Let go of your rectum a little bit, relax your pelvic floor. Take some deep breaths, drop your shoulders away from your ears, breathe in, hold, and you breathe out twice as long as your inhale. And what that does is our vagus nerve is now sensing we are safe. And it will turn on the parasympathetic response and turn off the fight or flight response. This is the body first approach. We're not even dealing with our thoughts or our mind. We're focusing on calming the body to calm the mind. Chelsea Henderson: Hmm. Abby: And what can happen with our vagus nerve is it's called vagal tone. So just like a muscle. The more that you use your parasympathetic response, the stronger that it gets. And the less that you use Chelsea Henderson: No kidding. Abby: it, the weaker that it gets. Yes. Yes. This is the coolest fucking part. It's really fucking cool. Yes. Changed my life. It changed Chelsea Henderson: What? That is the coolest thing ever. Shit! Okay, I knew I was Vegas nerve obsessed. I just didn't know why. that's so cool. Abby: my life when I learned this. I love it. Yes, like if you are constantly this is hustle culture. This is b- over here and I gotta get the kids over here and I've gotta get the laundry in and and I've got Chelsea Henderson: Right, right. Yeah. Abby: at this event and it is you need a lot of cortisol to be able to sustain that level of output. And you are running around, your heart is racing, you're not taking deep breaths, your belly is tight, Chelsea Henderson: And a lot of coffee. Abby: you're holding in your poop, you're like had a lot of coffee, your pelvic floor is tight, and so if I mean you can live in fight or flight for decades. Even when you sleep, just because you're asleep Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: doesn't always mean that you're not in fight or flight. This is stressful dreams, dreaming about work, dreaming about something happening to your kids, like those stressful dreams because you can still be in some late stage of fight or flight even when you're sleeping. And I, this was huge realization to me because I was like, I am I am never like in the blue, like calm and relaxed. I'm always in the red. Chelsea Henderson: Right, right, Abby: I just go from red to red to red. Chelsea Henderson: right. Right. Abby: Yeah, so you can train your vagus nerve, your vagal nerve, to be stronger and to become the default mode. So this is when when therapists or whatever would say like you should practice breathing, you should do yoga, you should do these things, it was kind of like yeah, blah blah blah. But Chelsea Henderson: Right. Abby: knowing the science behind it for me, if because I'm like, Chelsea Henderson: Yes. Abby: that's the analytical brain, you know, it wants to know. It's like if you Engage in these practices. Every day for the next 30 days or five days a week, you will train your nervous system to choose rest and digest because that's the stronger pathway, as opposed to Chelsea Henderson: Mm. Abby: fight or flight. Chelsea Henderson: That is wild. Okay, can I reflect for a second? Because so much is Abby: Yes, please. Chelsea Henderson: is coming up. So okay, we've talked about this before. I was raised in circle. I was raised in community. I was raised by a wise woman, right? My childhood trauma is obviously having a sick mother who died, you know, having a father who was unavailable to love and protect me. It's you know, that's something, I suppose. trauma wise and gave my nervous system a lot of reasons to seek out drugs and sex and s tobacco and f food for sure to dissociate because of shame and all the things, right? So then Being in talk therapy, acknowledging that, having amazing women in my life who continuously held up that space of like, you know, you were the oldest child, you mothered your siblings, you helped your mother through the last phases of her life. Like, these are big things. Like recognizing that for me was wonderful. Holding space was wonderful. And I got into my mid-thirties. I had a child. I experienced some very bad advice around drugs that they had put me on and had a nervous breakdown and had postpartum depression along with just, you know, postpartum psychosis. It was a really dark time. and all of that through all of that I leaned a lot into The analytical side, right? Let's go to Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: talk therapy. Let me reason myself through this. I'm grateful for that. I had severe psychotic Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: episodes in postpartum that I think if I had not had a strong mind to say, like you said, about that woman, right? That perseverance, that fight. I went into fight. I was like, I Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: have a baby, he is the love of my life. I have two sisters that are the loves of my life. I have a husband who's the love of my life. I have friends who are the loves of my life. And fuck this. I'm not going down like this, right? I will push through. I will fight. Exactly. Abby: Yeah. Yeah. I am not gonna become a victim to this. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: I'm gonna I'm gonna fight this. I'm gonna stand up and you know, do that thing as hard as it is. I'm gonna drag my ass through this for years. And that was wonderful, right? It was it g it did get me through to the other side. But or and whichever, I I think at this point doesn't really matter, it the I got through. still very harmed, right? I got through and I was like a little Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: chihuahua. You know, you came too close to me and I was like, get away. Don't touch Abby: Yeah, I think yeah. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: me. Don't talk to me. You know, I I just I didn't have bandwidth. I lost friends during that period that I thought would Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: never leave my side because I didn't communicate with them. You know, and fuck them for Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: not being strong enough to stand by and ask a question. But also fuck me for not being able to communicate because I was so Okay. I was so I was thinking my way through it, powering through it. It felt like a marathon. Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: And then I kind Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: of came back to my roots and what I realized is a lot of what we were doing in those in those sacred spaces, in those women's circles, in that in that safe space where we could legit, you know, howl at the moon, right? There's a reason why we do that because it does express it, it moves, it gets things out. You know, w when I Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: came back into those practices is when Then I really started to heal. You know, getting through it, not killing Abby: Mm. Chelsea Henderson: myself, not killing my child, not killing my husband, you know, not going on a shooting spree, you know, in in DC, where I just like, let me plow down some of these political cunts, you know. ooh, I think that's the first time I've used the C word on the podcast. Here we go. you know, that felt like an accomplishment to me. Like I had done it, I had made it, I had survived. But I was still just surviving. Then bringing in this the getting Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: back into the sacred, getting back into the body was what shifted me back into having a life that was worth living. So surviving, yes, but it was not a life worth living Abby: Yeah. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: that to me, right? It was just this kind of like, cause Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: I couldn't release, I couldn't let go. I mean, it was just like Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: You know, it was like a t a tightly strung Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: thing that would snap at any moment and So, gosh, I had a point, but I guess I was really just reflecting. But that to me is fascinating because that is Abby: No, that's great. Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: that the difference there. That little shift into okay, Abby: Mm. Chelsea Henderson: this is how we get back there. And I think this past weekend, right, we had our goddess dinner, we connected with a lot of friends, and that was the thing coming up for all these women in our in 30s, 40s, 50s, some even into their 60s, is like, you know, this is the work of gonna get. getting back to self, right? That that part of me that goes, gosh, when Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: I was younger it was so easy to enjoy things. Well yeah, because I think I've lost that vagal tone. I lost that like I didn't work that muscle. Abby: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: And so I was just, you know, thinking my way through and then all of a sudden I'm trapped in my thoughts and that's my war zone where every day I'm in there, you know, just okay, I gotta think to this point, I gotta get to this point. And then you bring the body in, even just now when you were talking about it, my eyes closed, Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: my breath out, lengthened, Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: my body it's a feeling like it's a ratcheting. You're just tight, tight, tight, tight, tight, and then and it just releases, it Abby: Yes, yeah, yeah. Chelsea Henderson: goes From being a tight cord to a soft silk. And it is a massive shift. That to me is fascinating. It is, and it's and it's it's it's magic! Abby: Mm. Mm. It does. It you feel it shift. You feel it shift. Yeah. It's fucking magical. It is magical. Chelsea Henderson: I was just gonna say that. It's magic. It's magic. I love it. Abby: Yeah. And it gives you so much agency over your body. Like, cause I go back to Chelsea Henderson: Yes Yes. Abby: the vagal, vagus nerve. I'm like vagal, vagus. Yeah, I think they're interchangeable. So it runs down the sides of our neck. Right here. You can Chelsea Henderson: huh. Yeah. Abby: put an ice cold washcloth on your neck, and that will slow your heart rate down and lower your blood pressure. It will stimulate that area. Also humming and singing. stimulate the vagal vagus nerve both with breathing because it's like you're breathing and you're humming. It's usually like slower breath to hum a song or to sing or to chant and it vibrates these nerves right here. And then you can do four, seven, eight breathing, which is where you inhale for a count of four. And you have to fill your lungs all the way to the tippy top, like where you inhale and then you inhale again. And you hold and you're holding big full lungs compresses the vagal nerve all the way between your heart and to your diaphragm. And it is compressing it and squeezing it and stimulating it. This is actually how we in medicine can flip people out of lethally high heart rhythms. It's called SVT, superventricular tachycardia. These people, they're sitting at rest and their heart rate is 180. And you can die from this. Chelsea Henderson: Wow. Abby: And the first thing that we try is we tell them to take a big deep breath and try to shit their pants because bearing down also stimulates your vagal nerve. If that doesn't work, Chelsea Henderson: Okay, okay. Abby: we'll give them one of those tiny coffee straws and we'll tell them to take a big deep breath and to blow as hard as they can into this straw. And that creates a lot of pressure in your thoracic cavity. And all of that, I mean, I've seen people's heart rate go from 180 to 75. Because we are stimulating the vagus nerve, which is taking them into a parasympathetic state where your heart rate is lower. So this is like strong, powerful, magical stuff that we can do, not only in an emergency if you have a high heart rate or something, but on the daily, like to take those deep breaths and to just begin to train your nervous system to be able to flip at will into rest and digest. So 478 breathing has been like my godsend. Ice on the neck, cold washcloths on the neck, and then trying to release your belly and not like I hold so much tension in my belly. Taking big belly breaths, connecting with friends, getting sunlight, things that make you feel like you're in a restful state, all of that is strength training for your nervous system. And eventually you train it to the point that you're not really anxious because you live over here. And this is the brain's Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: always gonna follow path of least resistance. So if it's trained to go towards rest and digest, it's gonna be harder for it to choose anxiety unless there's like an actual snake on the trail, and then you're like, wah, you know, but other then you recover Chelsea Henderson: Right. Yeah. Abby: and you go back to your default state of rest and digest. Now the problem that we see is the hustle culture. This is where like sometimes Chelsea Henderson: Fuck that. Abby: you it like might mean that you quit your job. It might mean that you quit Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: your job and you move to a cheaper apartment so that you don't have to work 60 hours a week because there's a certain lifestyle factor at play in the American Chelsea Henderson: Mm. Yeah. Abby: Western society where it's 60 hours a week, none of us are sleeping, none of us are eating well. Chelsea Henderson: Right. Abby: Like I I it's pretty challenging to regulate that kind of a nervous system that's having that much demand on it. Like I Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: quit my job as a nurse, and that was like Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: resolved a lot of stuff. And now that I'm Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: back to doing nursing three times a week, I realized this week when I was visiting you, I need to do two days a week. Three days a Chelsea Henderson: Right. Abby: week for me, it's really hard on my nervous system to sustain that level of output. And the path of embodiment and regulation is a slow path. And it's a path where we work a little bit less and we take time to just be and to breathe. And to sit in the sun, like all of those things take time. So it's a it's a lifestyle change. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A lifestyle change. And those of us who have the privilege of space to make those choices, I think it's so incredibly powerful that we do this work because I think the system has to change. That shouldn't be so Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: We shouldn't live in a system that relies on the bulk of humans being strung out to the point of breaking to sustain the few at the top. And so I think that if we can those of us Abby: Yeah, exactly. Chelsea Henderson: who have the fucking good fortune to live in the middle somewhere, you know, to really be Abby: Yes. Chelsea Henderson: to have these conversations makes me feel empowered because I get the most spun out these days thinking Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: about that that pyramid of awful that this system is built. Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: does Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: and how how ugly and horrific it is that the ones who do benefit benefit off the back and blood backs and blood of the others Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: and so you know, instead of getting lost in Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: that and and being sad about it, I think instead I choose to really lean into this work and recognize that it is my Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: beautiful privilege in this lifetime to get to practice this and then how can I free up some more bandwidth and space for the collective to allow a little bit of that Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: pressure to come off, you know, the foundation, the the base. You know, it just that's the feminine Yeah. Abby: Yeah. And that I mean, that's the feminine as well. That's what we talk about here with balancing the masculine and feminine energies is the feminine energy Chelsea Henderson: Yes. Abby: is slow, receptive, open, juicy, Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: and embodied and you can Chelsea Henderson: Mm. Abby: feel that when you're in the presence of another person or woman who is Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Yeah. Abby: really embodied in that way. They feel slow Chelsea Henderson: Absolutely. Abby: and They feel expansive and they just, you know, it's Grandmother Willow in Chelsea Henderson: Mm. Abby: frickin' Pocahontas. Like like that's that she was just like my favorite growing up. But she's you know, she's here for it. She's like, what are we doing? What are we wow, let's talk. Like, just that kind of feeling. And I hear what you're saying too about like the you know, all the people out there who maybe aren't in the middle. But I also work with people in medicine or just other things where There's so much societal keeping up with the Jones that I think keeps Chelsea Henderson: I know. Abby: people in a place where they could escape it. I work with so Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: many people who get a new car every three years because they think that they should. And Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Yep. Abby: their f current car works perfectly fine, but they trade it in for a new one and traded in for a new one three years later, or they they live above their means in order to impress other people or to keep up with other people and like selling your car and getting a Honda Accord, a twenty twenty eighteen Honda Accord and driving that thing until it's done and maybe living in like a little bit cheaper of an apartment or I don't know. I think Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: that there's a lot of empowerment to be had and also things that we have coming up, listeners Learning how to manage your money as a woman, learning how to save her retirement, learning how Chelsea Henderson: Mm. Abby: to invest helps take a Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: pressure off my nervous system to know that like I'm I'm planning for my future. I've got investments, I know what to do with my money, I know how to budget, I have a high yield savings, all of those things. Chelsea Henderson: Right. I know how to use those resources. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Abby: So it's like education, it's saying fuck off to having a new car every three years. I'm gonna drive this car, Chelsea Henderson: Right. Abby: I'm gonna pay it off, and it's gonna be my car for 20 years. And I'm gonna be the person Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: with an old beat-up car, but I'm gonna be, you know, whatever. There's certain things where I think that we can get out of some of it to where we can take make a little bit of room Chelsea Henderson: I think you're right. Abby: in our lives to chill. Or just learning to say no to things and to people, which is hard for me. No, Chelsea Henderson: Well and I think to your point Yes, absolutely. Yes. Yes. Abby: I can't volunteer this weekend. No, I can't t you know, no, because I need space Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: for me. And that is so hard as women to say no. Chelsea Henderson: Yes, yeah. Abby: to others and to being asked to be on this project and whatever and and Chelsea Henderson: Okay. Abby: making room for yourself and putting yourself first. Yeah. There's so much that goes Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: into creating the space for nervous system regulation. Chelsea Henderson: And I think you spoke to it a little bit you know, with the feminine. You know, the feminine is a little less concerned with the superficial. You know, I think in this culture it's really amazing to see how distracted by the shiny thing so many people are and they don't realize that that's by design. There's the design there. If you're distracted by the shiny thing and you are completely overextending yourself to get to it without realizing that getting to it just makes you want the next shiny thing, it's really easy for the powers that Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: be to exploit you. and take advantage of everything, all the output that you're generating, you know, and I I think Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: that that is something the feminine can find and and and the balance, right? It's not just the feminine. The balanced feminine and masculine can find satisfaction Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: in the day-to-day, can find satisfaction in in each other, right? I mean that those moments of just it doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to be, right? That is something that when we're more Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: balanced, you know, that allows for that. And then we don't need the next thing as much. And we don't Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: taking the focus off. It turns out a car is a functional tool that loses value the second Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: you drive it off the lot. So to think that you are getting anywhere with that, aside from just, you know, having a nice functional car, absolutely. I appreciate that very much. I want to have a car that won't Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: break down, that has, you know, working functions, but that is completely doable and it doesn't need to be the thing that you know, is drowning me because it's so expensive. And Abby: Yeah. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: I think that that can be really hard. It's clothes and nails and makeup and, you know, technology, you know. Holy shit, dude. It's just so much. Well, that's the cheat economy. Yeah. We're the targets. Yes, we do. Yeah. Abby: Botox and hair and lashes. I mean for women especially we've talked about this with the she economy. Well we just it's a lot. We pay for a lot of stuff. Yeah. We pay for a lot of stuff. And I think that the powers that be, they know what they're doing. They're using our nervous system against us. They're using artificial scarcity to incite Chelsea Henderson: Yes. Mm-hmm. Abby: fear and to promise that if you had this thing you would finally feel safe. Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Yeah. Abby: You would finally feel like you could relax. It's gonna free up so much time. And if you have this Chelsea Henderson: Right. Abby: new shiny car, imagine how safe you'll feel driving your family. Because you know you're at the Chelsea Henderson: Right. Right. Abby: highest safety profile. Like they are very much all Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: of them are using fear and scarcity to fuel you to make purchase decisions. When really, I mean, after basic needs, you know, food, water, shelter, climate controlled shelter. Like a lot of those things what I find is like my own nervous system, my own deep breath is where I'm fine I find a lot of the what I think all this stuff I'm gonna buy Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: me is gonna get me. Now I have experienced recently that you can go the other way because I lived in a thousand dollar tiny house with not a flushing toilet and ants everywhere and it was no AC and that f put me into some serious fight or flight. That took me into a serious spiral of fight or flight because I didn't feel safe in that home. I didn't feel like I could empty my bladder easily because like I have to Chelsea Henderson: Right. Abby: empty this pea jug somewhere and like it created so like yeah I was saving money. But there's a balance. It's like, okay, you wanna be comfortable and give your nervous system a safe, healthy place to live and like I don't know. It's Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: something we all have to balance, like what is worth spending money on and what's not. but Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. It's a balance and it's subjective, right? Abby: Yeah, I think it can be pretty simple. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: Everybody's different. And so I think recognizing that too, what works for me I agree, yeah. And I think it's it's finding what works for you and then really leaning into that and and finding your reasons, right? But anyway, I mean that's you know, I for me, I know I'm honing in on what works for me. Abby: It all connects. Chelsea Henderson: Yes, it does. It does. I will Abby: Yeah. Yeah. And then the awareness and the knowledge of just how your nervous system works and these different phases of fight or flight. We didn't even get into like the freeze, you know. If you get too overwhelmed, you can go into freeze mode where you're not necessarily passing out, but you're numbing out. You're like, I've flipped Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: from I can to I can't. You're like, I I used to think numbing out was me relaxing. I used to think enjoying two beers at the end of a shift was me coming down into my parasympathetic, but really it's it's you're just numbing out the sympathetic. True parasympathetic is like, I mean you can feel it. It's just like that, whoosh, you know, it's that Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: shivasana. It's like you don't Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Abby: need substances to get there. It's harder to get Chelsea Henderson: Mm. Abby: there. But yeah, it's knowing where you're at and what your nervous system's doing and having tools to, Chelsea Henderson: I love that. Abby: you know, direct it. Chelsea Henderson: I love that. And I think the more that I've done this work, the more I get to use substances for fun. That glass of wine with friends is to Abby: Mm-hmm. Same. Chelsea Henderson: get a little buzz and to feel like fun. You know, I smoke that bit of weed on the weekends so that I can do my oil painting or put up my wallpaper in my entryway and and just f fuck around Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: and have fun. And so yeah, I I think it does shift Abby: Exactly. Chelsea Henderson: it so much. It's really beautiful. When I was at the height of my postpartum depression psychosis, I was smoking pot anytime I was awake. And it was horrible because I had always had this really creative Abby: Yeah. Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: relationship with cannabis that was fun. And it would it would stimulate me to want to connect and go on a walk and be in nature. And and then I was using it as an epic crut crutch. And I was on multiple different medications for depression and psychosis. And it was a a I was so disconnected and it it Abby: Mm. Chelsea Henderson: felt so bad. And then now I'm back to like if I Want to hit a joint, I'll take Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: two puffs and like I'm giggling and having fun. I'm joking with my husband, I'm having fun with my friends, I'm cooking food. I mean, you and I got stoned and prepped for the Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: goddess dinner together, and it was fun. You know, it was such a good time, and and it I kind of again it just Abby: Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. Chelsea Henderson: gives you that empowerment around these things that you know, you get to use it the way you want it, right? Abby: Mm-hmm. Chelsea Henderson: I get to shop because I want a specific thing that I think is really gonna bring me some value in my day-to-day life, not because it fits. This insatiable dry well, right? And that is so powerful. It feels amazing. So I I appreciate that. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Abby: Yeah, same. Yeah. Yeah, you can feel the difference. Yeah, you can feel the difference and yeah, yeah. It's a so nervous system regulation, it's trendy for a reason because we're learning a lot of stuff about it. And I continue to learn more about the science of it and how it all works. So I think it's a great Chelsea Henderson: Mm. Abby: pillar for us to kind of talk about just how your body you know, works. The endocannabinoid system, your nervous system, your hormones as a woman, perimenopause, like Chelsea Henderson: Yes, yes, yes. Holy cow. Abby: there's, you know, just the more I understand about my body, the more I can kind of be like, I know what's going on here. You know, this whole move Chelsea Henderson: Yep. Yes. Abby: the last six weeks. I'm like, okay, Abby has been in fight or flight for six weeks straight. This is unsustainable. Chelsea Henderson: Right. Abby: So, you know, we did what we had to do. We got out of the ant infested place and now Chelsea Henderson: Mm-hmm. Abby: I'm needing to spend some more time getting back to my baseline, doing some breathing, having empty days where I don't have anything planned and just like Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: retrain my nervous system not to live there because it will want to Chelsea Henderson: Yeah. Abby: stay there, you know? So yeah, just knowing Chelsea Henderson: Right. Abby: how it all works has been so empowering for me and for people I've worked with. It's been like just a really cool that's why there's a reason it's popular. Chelsea Henderson: And I love that. I'm glad we talked about it and thank you for sharing your wisdom and for exploring this topic and sharing the the kind of physiological blueprint reality Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: here, you know, whatever that whatever you might call it, because it does help to you know, there's those things that feel like intuition and gut and then you hear that, like medicine and science have actually outlined this and it is what you intuitively thought it was. You know, whatever reason brought us there, that slowing down, having that slow day, hugging a person you love, drinking a glass of water, cooling your body down, getting that baseline temperature back when it's a hundred Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: freaking degrees outside, like all of those things do matter for a very specific reason and But it's even I mean, now I feel Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: so much more empowered knowing those ins and outs. Like, I can train this like a muscle. I'm so jazzed. I I'm this is why I've been loving this Abby: Yeah. So cool. So cool. Chelsea Henderson: oil, these baths, you know, with this with this oil. we're not we have no relationship with them, but OSIA, if you have a little extra money to spend on yourself, their Vegas nerve oil and their Vegas nerve bath Abby: Yeah. Chelsea Henderson: oil is incredibly luxurious and I am obsessed with it. So it's so good. Abby: That sounds so good. that sounds delicious. We can put the link over it in the show notes. Yeah. Yeah. We should. Chelsea Henderson: It is. It's an indulgence, but we should, we should. I love it. if I get the chance to take a bath, I'll drop some of that in there, and I'm just I'm just on another level. So my god, okay. I love you. You're such a freaking Abby: Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Beautiful. Chelsea Henderson: genius. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Abby: I love you. Chelsea Henderson: This has been cool. I'm glad we talked about this. Abby: Yes, you're so welcome. I'm glad it I'm glad it's helpful for people. Yeah, me too. Yeah, and it you know, it just continues. There's so there's so much there. I'll I'll include a a PDF little thing. Chelsea Henderson: It's so helpful. All right. Well, thanks everyone for joining us. We love y'all. Abby: Love you, thank you for joining us, and we will see you next time. Chelsea Henderson: Love you. Bye, everyone.