Latest / WriterCon / The Intersection of Music and Writing with Heather Snodgrass

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The Intersection of Music and Writing with Heather Snodgrass · WriterCon

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  Speaker 1: This week on the writer Con podcast.
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  Speaker 2: I think the biggest thing for me is stick with it.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: I think that's my best best advice. If you find
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  Speaker 2: yourself in a writer's block, like read, watch movies, listen
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  Speaker 2: to music, just get inspiration any way you can.
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  Speaker 3: Welcome to writer Con, a gathering place for writers to
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  Speaker 3: share their knowledge about writing and the writing world. Do
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  Speaker 3: you have a desire to write? Every successful writer started
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  Speaker 3: with their first book. All it takes is determination and knowledge,
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: and writer Con can provide that knowledge. Your hosts are
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  Speaker 3: number one national best selling writer William Bernhardt, author of
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  Speaker 3: more than sixty books, including The Superman Wars, and Laura Bernhardt,
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  Speaker 3: Award winning author of the Wantlan File series and Shadow
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  Speaker 3: of the taj Well.
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  Speaker 4: Thank you, Jesse Ulrich. Hello there writers, Thanks for joining us.
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  Speaker 4: All right, last time we reviewed and graded our predictions
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  Speaker 4: for twenty twenty five, and I think we scored pretty
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  Speaker 4: well overall, but I may be less than impartial. Greater
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  Speaker 4: you know, there is the best you can do with
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  Speaker 4: a business as unpredictable as this one. Now it's time
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  Speaker 4: to make our predictions for the year to come, or
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  Speaker 4: maybe even beyond that. Jesse, let's start with you have
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  Speaker 4: you got a prediction for us?
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  Speaker 3: I do, and I don't know if this one will
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  Speaker 3: likes to come true this year, but it is a
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  Speaker 3: prediction for the future, which is that there is going
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  Speaker 3: to be just like how like vinyls making a comeback
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  Speaker 3: and vintage whatever things are making to come back.
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  Speaker 1: There is going to be a turn away from AI.
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  Speaker 3: Built tools back towards a and of course they'll charge
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  Speaker 3: extra for this. A more human centric way of doing things,
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  Speaker 3: whether it's whether it's human translators, whether it's whatever.
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  Speaker 1: Having a human do it is going to become cool.
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  Speaker 4: That would be cool. I have read that the sales
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  Speaker 4: of print books are increasing, and of course New York
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  Speaker 4: is hoping that gen Z will do for print books
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  Speaker 4: what they did for vinyl records, which could happen. Laura,
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  Speaker 4: how about you, what's your prediction?
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  Speaker 5: I hope that's the case. I think we will continue
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  Speaker 5: to see reader interest in more'sescapist books this year. I
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  Speaker 5: think that the more serious and literary works are probably
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  Speaker 5: going to take a back seat. I find that when
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  Speaker 5: we're dealing with things in the real world that already
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  Speaker 5: feel like too much, we need something lighter when we
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  Speaker 5: turn to books, something to help us feel better.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you're right. I got two. The one
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  Speaker 4: of them is so uncontroversial i'll just mention it in passing.
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  Speaker 4: AI slop books will become more and I hope they're
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  Speaker 4: not the escapist literature that you're talking about, Laura, But
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  Speaker 4: I mean, they already exist, but I think it's going
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  Speaker 4: to become much bigger. I mean, I remember when people
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  Speaker 4: were saying, who's going to buy a digital book that
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  Speaker 4: costs ninety nine cents? It's obviously, except that actually turned
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  Speaker 4: out to be the cool way to go, and people
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  Speaker 4: made fortunes because there are apparently some people who just
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  Speaker 4: like to read, you know, and that's not a bad thing,
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  Speaker 4: like to read books in a certain genre, and all
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  Speaker 4: other things being equal, ninety nine cents is better than
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  Speaker 4: ten dollars. And similarly, I don't think most people buying
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  Speaker 4: books online even look at or care about the publisher.
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  Speaker 4: I don't think they care. Well. Some will similarly not
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  Speaker 4: care whether it was written by a human or not.
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  Speaker 4: Just give me another book. I hope I'm wrong, but
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  Speaker 4: there's my prediction. It's already happening. Music, right, there are
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  Speaker 4: AI songs coming up in Spotify streams.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, but Spotify is pushing those towards the audience like
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  Speaker 3: people are of them.
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  Speaker 4: So why what's their motive? Are they less expensive?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, that they don't have to pay rights to artists,
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  Speaker 3: and so Spotify puts their AI tracks at the end
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  Speaker 3: of people's playlists and so that they automatically get plays
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  Speaker 3: and then people might add them to their favorites or whatever,
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  Speaker 3: and so every time that's played, Spotify doesn't have to
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  Speaker 3: pay anybody.
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  Speaker 5: We're going to see a pushback on this.
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  Speaker 1: I do.
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  Speaker 2: I think people start to.
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  Speaker 1: Do not anger music people, they are precisionists.
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  Speaker 5: I think I think we'll get I think we'll get
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  Speaker 5: some pushback, if not outrage. Like Jesse's saying, people are
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  Speaker 5: going to start to clamor for actual human made art,
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  Speaker 5: unless unless it's a drawing by, say, a penguin. I
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  Speaker 5: would take a penguin paintin, but it's still made by
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  Speaker 5: real being.
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  Speaker 4: Okay, fingers crussed. And my other production has to do
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  Speaker 4: with what some people now call legacy media, or, to
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  Speaker 4: put it another way, the way we used to promote books,
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  Speaker 4: you know, appearing on The Morning Show or Good Morning
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  Speaker 4: America or stuff like that, which has always been outside
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  Speaker 4: the grasp of most writers, but was often cited as
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  Speaker 4: an appealing reason to try for traditional publishing. But the
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  Speaker 4: truth is now so few writers, even in traditional publishing,
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  Speaker 4: can get on, and it's not that effective anyway. I'm
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  Speaker 4: going to play the old men now and say, I
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  Speaker 4: remember when talk shows would run ninety minutes and sometimes
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  Speaker 4: at night, sometimes in the afternoon, and authors would often
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  Speaker 4: appear in the last segment, the very last one. But
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  Speaker 4: you know they had to have something last segment, But
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  Speaker 4: that just so rarely happens, and even and back then,
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  Speaker 4: that would be an almost guarantee your book's going to sell. Well,
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  Speaker 4: now it is not. People get on even like book
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  Speaker 4: club chats and Good Morning America and whatnot, and the
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  Speaker 4: book still doesn't take off. But what is working is
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  Speaker 4: the new media. Obviously, TikTok, book talk and new ways
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  Speaker 4: the gen z crowd have come up with promoting promoting
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  Speaker 4: books which seem to be much more effective, at least
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  Speaker 4: in today's world. So I think we'll see a lot
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  Speaker 4: more of that and a lot less people chasing publishers
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  Speaker 4: for legacy media. All right, enough of that, let's turn
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  Speaker 4: to our interview. Our interview today is with Heather snod Grass,
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  Speaker 4: Heather Snodgrass. Heather has written a wonderful book called A
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  Speaker 4: Love Letter to Reading, which has really a unique premise,
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  Speaker 4: her core idea being about the relationship between reading and
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  Speaker 4: music and how one can reinforce one another, why people
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  Speaker 4: who enjoy one in their spare time often enjoy the other.
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  Speaker 4: Really a different take that I thought was interesting. So
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  Speaker 4: we will talk to Heather later, but first the news
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  Speaker 4: news story number one. This has to do with Spotify,
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  Speaker 4: but fortunately it is not about Aislop music. It's about
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  Speaker 4: the Spotify Audio Books program, which is now offering writers
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  Speaker 4: like you and me opportunities to write for them. So
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  Speaker 4: a word of explanation. And the Spotify Audiobooks Selects series
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  Speaker 4: is relatively new, and it's offering indie authors professional audio production, payment, promotion,
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  Speaker 4: distribution to their listeners around the world. Twice a year.
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  Speaker 4: They're going to request manuscripts built around a specific theme,
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  Speaker 4: and right now they've got a specific call for a
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  Speaker 4: specific theme. I should first make clear that when we're
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  Speaker 4: talking about these audiobooks, they're not just a guy reading
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  Speaker 4: your manuscript. At least in some cases, these are fully
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  Speaker 4: blown dramatized productions like old radio dramas, with actors and
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  Speaker 4: people playing parts and cool stuff like that. So there's
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  Speaker 4: a call out. Now go to the Spotify Audio books
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  Speaker 4: website and you can find it. They're asking for basically
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  Speaker 4: what they're calling swon worthy tropes, meaning romances. Specific categories
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  Speaker 4: they mentioned are enemies to lovers, because that happens a
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  Speaker 4: lot in real life. Maybe it does. I don't know.
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  Speaker 4: Grumpy slash sunshine. I don't even know what that means,
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  Speaker 4: fake marriage, falling in love with your siblings, best friend,
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  Speaker 4: and any of your juicy favorites. You send them your
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  Speaker 4: manuscript and they'll get back to you. Although they do
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  Speaker 4: say no erotica or children's content, that's the opposite ends
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  Speaker 4: up the same spectrum. But don't do it, Okay, Laura,
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  Speaker 4: can you see yourself writing for something like this?
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  Speaker 5: I don't. I love the idea. I think this sounds
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  Speaker 5: super fun. I don't write romance.
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  Speaker 4: Which you write for the next theme then, so.
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  Speaker 5: Maybe another theme. But my other concern is that I
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  Speaker 5: don't tend to write short things very well. It just
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  Speaker 5: turns into a novel anytime I try to write something sorter.
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  Speaker 5: So I'm looking at that word count. Sure it sounds
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  Speaker 5: appealing because it sounds like something that you could write
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  Speaker 5: very quickly, and then how cool would it be to
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  Speaker 5: be on Spotify with this whole production of your work.
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  Speaker 5: I love the idea of it, but you know, I'll
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  Speaker 5: keep an eye on it. If it came up there
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  Speaker 5: was like a supernatural suspense theme, I might think about
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  Speaker 5: hopping in. I thought I was going to try kindle
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  Speaker 5: vella for a while and write pieces of short stories
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  Speaker 5: that way, so I could maybe take an idea I
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  Speaker 5: had for that and see if I can write that
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  Speaker 5: in Jesse.
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  Speaker 4: How about you. You listen to podcasts, you listen to
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  Speaker 4: audio books. Would you listen to something like this?
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  Speaker 1: I would.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's definitely shorter than the size of
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  Speaker 3: books I normally read.
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  Speaker 1: But I do like the idea of.
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  Speaker 3: It being like a sort of novella continuing sort of
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  Speaker 3: story like you were talking about old time radio shows.
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  Speaker 3: That would be a really really cool thing to listen to.
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  Speaker 3: Also Spotify, if you're listening India editors, give me a call.
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  Speaker 1: Sounds fun.
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  Speaker 4: Well.
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  Speaker 5: I remember when Audible started doing direct to audio book stories,
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  Speaker 5: but they were extending those offers I think to more
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  Speaker 5: traditional legacy authors, people who already had bigger readership, and
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  Speaker 5: so this is kind of nice that they're they're allowing more.
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  Speaker 4: Writers to try to specifically targeting indie writers. Yeah, and
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  Speaker 4: I don't know those audiobook short stories have ever done
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  Speaker 4: particularly well, but here the feeling maybe that if we
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  Speaker 4: dramatize it, if we make it like a show, except
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  Speaker 4: you can close your eyes or drive or write on
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  Speaker 4: the subway or whatever, maybe that'll make it more popular.
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  Speaker 4: And I should add FYI, if you like this idea,
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  Speaker 4: anyone out there but are bummed by the restriction against erotica,
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  Speaker 4: go someplace else. Specifically, there's a company called Quinn that
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  Speaker 4: is doing audio books that are definitely spicier, and not
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  Speaker 4: only are they fully dramatized, they have a really impressive
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  Speaker 4: roster of a list actors who are working for them,
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  Speaker 4: like people you've seen on television. So there's just a
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  Speaker 4: little tip from Bill to you. All Right, news story
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  Speaker 4: number two built AI is now deciding what books you read. Okay,
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  Speaker 4: maybe that's a little bit much, but I'm trying to
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  Speaker 4: get your attention because you probably thought AI was just
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  Speaker 4: secretly writing the books you read, but now it appears
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  Speaker 4: that it's being used to select books as well. Was
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  Speaker 4: revealed just last week as record this that a company
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  Speaker 4: called Trinity has developed an AI platform that basically sifts
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  Speaker 4: through the slush pile for you and every manuscript. Every
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  Speaker 4: publisher has one tall stacks of manuscripts, and even you know,
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  Speaker 4: even when they require agented submissions, they still have a
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  Speaker 4: big pile of stuff. And this AI platform is supposed
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  Speaker 4: to go through it and make recommend recommendations about what
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  Speaker 4: published seru publisher publishers should publish and what they should not.
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  Speaker 4: All right, I'll stop talking, Jesse. Even when they use
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  Speaker 4: agents as gatekeepers, publishing houses still theoretically have to read
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  Speaker 4: at least a little part of the proposals. Does this
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  Speaker 4: seem like a viable way to save time and money
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  Speaker 4: and still pick books that will sell?
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  Speaker 1: I guess my question is why else are you doing
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  Speaker 1: this job?
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  Speaker 4: Like, if you don't want to read?
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  Speaker 3: Why did you go into this career if you didn't
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  Speaker 3: actually want to read manuscripts? And see if like it's
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  Speaker 3: an author who you can connect with an editor you
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  Speaker 3: like and make it good. And at anytime someone uses
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  Speaker 3: one of these AI filtering things, people figure out what
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  Speaker 3: that filter is looking for and just start, just like
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  Speaker 3: with the book titles aiming at that and then some
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  Speaker 3: human's gonna have to go in and fix it anyway.
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  Speaker 1: So like this isn't going to work over time?
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  Speaker 4: Isn't very true? Laura? How about you? Where do you
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  Speaker 4: see this going?
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  Speaker 5: This is right hand in hand with our predictions that
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  Speaker 5: people continue to try to use AI to save time
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  Speaker 5: to save money, and Jesse nailed it. It really isn't
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  Speaker 5: going to actually result in anything good for the people
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  Speaker 5: who are trying to use it or for the people
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  Speaker 5: who want the next great book. We are looking for
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  Speaker 5: a great experience, and if somebody is just writing to
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  Speaker 5: try to game game algorithms, whether it be on Amazon,
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  Speaker 5: in their title, in their book proposal, or there are a
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  Speaker 5: few pages that they're submitting, I just don't think it's
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  Speaker 5: gonna end. Well, what can we please stop using AI
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  Speaker 5: to replace art? As Jesse has asked in the past,
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  Speaker 5: I'm one hundred percent with him on this.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, but if it saves the money.
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  Speaker 1: But here's the thing. Does it does if you don't
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  Speaker 1: actually know that it actually helps in any way?
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  Speaker 4: Mmm? I think it's saving.
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  Speaker 3: Money because in the short term they're maybe paying somebody less,
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  Speaker 3: but eventually they're going to start selling less because people
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  Speaker 3: don't want to read crap.
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  Speaker 1: Try I want to listen to crap. They don't want
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: to look at crap and they don't want.
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  Speaker 6: To read crap.
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  Speaker 4: Might also help a lot of assistance, I think in
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  Speaker 4: New York who are required to come in on Saturdays
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  Speaker 4: and go through the slush pile whether they like it
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  Speaker 4: or not, because they're the low person on the telephone
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  Speaker 4: on the totem pole.
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  Speaker 5: Jesse asked, isn't that why went into the business, though, Like,
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  Speaker 5: isn't that what you wanted to do was to go
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  Speaker 5: in and read manuscripts and be a part of creating excellent.
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  Speaker 4: Books reading, yes, reading proposals. I'm not so sure, but
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  Speaker 4: maybe all right, let's move on to Craft Corner. Craft
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  Speaker 4: Corner this time is from friend of the podcast, Marty Ludlam,
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  Speaker 4: who is, of course, the author of the disco themed
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: mystery At First I Was Afraid, which is getting a
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: sequel in just a few months. He has talked about
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: eliminating useless words from your writing before, and this time
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: he's taking a deep dive into the word some take
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: it away, Marty.
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  Speaker 6: Craft Corner. This is bad words with Marty today. Our
• 16:55
  Speaker 6: bad word is Some about Me, my first novel at first,
• 17:01
  Speaker 6: I Was Afraid, Available from Babylon Books, available everywhere books
• 17:05
  Speaker 6: are sold. Second one in the series, she works hard
• 17:09
  Speaker 6: for the money. There's a disco theme here. It's going
• 17:12
  Speaker 6: to be released sometime this spring. Check my website for
• 17:16
  Speaker 6: hints about the book cover and all those kind of
• 17:18
  Speaker 6: details ludlum books dot Net. Our series, her focuses on
• 17:24
  Speaker 6: words that are weak, ineffective, terrible writing. Today's villain is
• 17:32
  Speaker 6: some dictionary definition, an unspecified or unknown amount of things. Oh,
• 17:38
  Speaker 6: not helpful. It's really not an answer. And this applies
• 17:42
  Speaker 6: equally to all of Some's cousins. Someone somewhere or sometimes
• 17:47
  Speaker 6: something vague, vague, vague. Some really isn't an answer. My
• 17:55
  Speaker 6: favorite Star Wars character k Tsu from Rogue one gives
• 18:01
  Speaker 6: a favor or reply. I find that answer vague and unconvincing.
• 18:06
  Speaker 6: Some is exactly that way, vague and unconvincing. I'm with
• 18:12
  Speaker 6: Sheriff's office. How many drinks have you had? Some? Trust me,
• 18:18
  Speaker 6: you're going to jail. That's not an answer. At the
• 18:23
  Speaker 6: er doctor says, hey, how many of these pills did
• 18:26
  Speaker 6: you take?
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Some?
• 18:29
  Speaker 6: Yeah, that doesn't help anyone or the coroners on the
• 18:33
  Speaker 6: witness stand how much poison was in the victim's blood.
• 18:38
  Speaker 6: Some Yeah, that doesn't help anybody. It's not an answer.
• 18:43
  Speaker 6: Or maybe you're having a serious talk with your significant other.
• 18:47
  Speaker 6: Do you love me? Some believe me. That's not the
• 18:52
  Speaker 6: end of the conversation. It might be the end of
• 18:55
  Speaker 6: other things, but it's not the end of the conversation.
• 18:59
  Speaker 6: You need to be different. Draw the reader into your story.
• 19:04
  Speaker 6: So here's a simple example. You invited every kid in
• 19:07
  Speaker 6: town to your birthday party. How many kids showed up?
• 19:11
  Speaker 6: Some in very bland doesn't say anything. How about instead,
• 19:17
  Speaker 6: how many kids showed up three hundred and twenty five?
• 19:21
  Speaker 6: That answer automatically leads you to further discussion to this story.
• 19:26
  Speaker 6: How did you have a birthday party with that many kids?
• 19:29
  Speaker 6: You can almost hear them in the background. Or instead,
• 19:33
  Speaker 6: how many kids showed up to your birthday party? Two? Well,
• 19:38
  Speaker 6: one kid and his mom. That also leads you to
• 19:42
  Speaker 6: another story. Some doesn't do either of those. Some terrible writing.
• 19:51
  Speaker 6: Use detail, make your writing come alive. You have any questions,
• 19:56
  Speaker 6: be sure contact me at Marty Ludlam the Writer at gmail.
• 20:00
  Speaker 6: If not. In Part two we talk about exceptions to
• 20:03
  Speaker 6: when it's okay to use some for your writing until
• 20:07
  Speaker 6: next time.
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: Thank you Marty Ludlam. And remember his new book At
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: First I Was Afraid is on sale now. All right,
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: now let's talk to Heather Snodgrass. Heather Snodgrass, welcome to
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: the podcast.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you for having me. I like this
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: show a lot. I enjoyed this.
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: Thank you, Thank you appreciate it. Well, then you already
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: know what my first question is going to be. If
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: you could offer writers one piece of advice, what would
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: it be.
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  Speaker 2: I think the biggest thing for me is stick with it.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: I think that's my best best advice. If you find
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: yourself in a writer's block, like read, watch movies, listen
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: to music, just get inspiration any way you can.
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: I think that's a great idea.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, I want to get into talking about your
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: book because this is just not only very unique, but fascinating.
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: It's unique. It involves music, It obviously involves words. It's
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: a thriller basically, but one that incorporates music in a
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: fascinating way, which you would never get from the title,
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: which is a love letter to reading, right right, How
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: did you come up with this?
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: The whole concept, it's kind of been bruined for some time.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: It really came together through pieces. So the main character
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: the assassin, So it follows Arianna slash Scorpion, her code
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: name is Scorpion, through a series of events that basically
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: make her reconcile her life the way she's been living,
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: so she's raised as an assassin. For her personally, it's
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: a little bit of a little bit of a personal
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: thing to just kind of choreograph your life with like
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: sound playlists and soundtracks and stuff like that. So that
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: part was a very personal thing. So that was the
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: idea for her. The story itself was just sort of
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: a what if and then what if. One what if
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: led in to another what if, and then another what if,
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: and it just sort of came together through a bunch
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: of what if questions.
• 22:26
  Speaker 5: It's so interesting. It kind of sounds like music is
• 22:31
  Speaker 5: almost like, yeah, a character, like it's almost another character
• 22:36
  Speaker 5: in the book. Is that intentional? Did you mean for
• 22:38
  Speaker 5: that to happen or is that one of those things
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: that just kind of developed for you?
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was definitely intentional for me. That's
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: it's a huge it's like a huge pillar in my life.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: I would say, okay, so very intentional for that.
• 22:56
  Speaker 5: Does the book have an official soundtrack or unofficial or
• 23:02
  Speaker 5: it does?
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: It does on yeah, we'll say unofficial, yeah, so on
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: on Spotify. I actually have a whole playlist built. It's
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: almost one hundred hours of a playlist. But it's that
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: way because as you read the book, you'll understand. But
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: it's it's a Scorpions playlist.
• 23:25
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna go find it and so I.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah it is. So we just released the second edition
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: of the book and in the front it has a
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: QR code that'll take people to that playlist.
• 23:40
  Speaker 5: Okay, fantastic, And for our readers, do you have is
• 23:43
  Speaker 5: there a title? Is there an easy way to find it?
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: It is just Scorpions playlist. The best way I would
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: say to find it probably is through my site. I
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: do have it linked up on my website, which is
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: author Heathersnodgrass dot com. Yeah, and so there's a couple
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: places to kind of find your way on it.
• 24:05
  Speaker 5: So very cool. Well, okay, how'd you come up with
• 24:09
  Speaker 5: the song? How'd you go up with the playlist? Was
• 24:11
  Speaker 5: there something for each chapter or how did that develop
• 24:14
  Speaker 5: for you?
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So for one thing, a lot of
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: my chapters. A lot of people don't notice, but a
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: lot of my chapters are actually share a song title,
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: so they're titled sort of after song. I hate saying
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: they're titled after a song, just because then people think
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: that that's going to be a theme in the chapter,
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: and it's not necessarily the case. However, they do share
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: song titles. So the playlist itself started to form around that.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: But a lot of it is either music that I
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: listened to while I was writing, or it's music that
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: I listened to coming up. And so since Ariana is
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: about my age, it's songs that fluenced my life, so
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: I incorporated it into her life as well.
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: So, yeah, I'm just going to jump in because I
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: know some of our listeners are really interested in the
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: writing process. I read somewhere that you even have a
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: different playlist for every stage of the writing process. Is
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: that correct?
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: It's pretty correct. I try to make a playlist for
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: each character first, and then I kinda you know, and
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: it really depends on how I would define that character.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: So each one is a little bit different in like
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: their upbringing, I would say, so excuse me. So I
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: would start by taking songs that maybe the character was
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: raised with or influential in their lives, and I would
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: build a playlist around that, and then I would sort
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: of develop the characters by listening to that music and
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: kind of understanding where they where they.
• 25:53
  Speaker 5: Developed themselves, fascinating, kind of get into their psyche by
• 25:59
  Speaker 5: the type of music that they like listening to that.
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it sounds like you're using music to create a
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: stronger bond between reader and writer, which of course is
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: what every writer wants to do. Yeah, you know, it
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: takes skill, and it looks like you've found a new
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: pathway to it.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: I hope. So that would be ideal for me if
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: that were true. I hope that.
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: Where are you in the music world? Do you play
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: an instrument or music on garage band or what?
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: My dad is actually a musician. I've dabbled. I've learned
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: a lot of different instruments, but I'm not I'm not
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: good enough to say I play anything specifically. I was
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: more of the show choir kid in school because I
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: was a theater kid. So for me, it's all about
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: like musicals and stuff like that is the start of it.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: And then, like I said, my dad's a musician, he
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: kind of plays almost everything he can. He can usually
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: play something by year after hearing it once or twice.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: So very talented guy.
• 27:12
  Speaker 5: We love we love music. Actually, my undergraduate degree is
• 27:16
  Speaker 5: musical theater performance, so yeah, we love it. We just
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: saw Merrily Be Long last night. That was super fun.
• 27:25
  Speaker 5: Oh oh yeah, Yes, about a posers and how music
• 27:31
  Speaker 5: impacts life. Yeah, let's talk about.
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: The writing process a little bit. We know you've got
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: different playlists for every stage. What's her writing day look
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: like for you? I mean, do you get up in
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: the morning and just plunge in or what.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: I do like to write in the morning. I like
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: to make like a little drink. Depending on the weather outside,
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: I'll either do hot or cold, and a lot of
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: times I like to actually sit on our back deck
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: and I'll usually have one ear button so I can
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: listen to music, but also the other ear is free,
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: so I can like kind of listen to the birds
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: and nature and stuff. And it's just sort of a
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: good balance for me. But I am a I would
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: say I get most of my ideas in the morning,
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: but I think a lot of my ideas come when
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: I'm getting ready to go to sleep, so I usually
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: end up writing at all times, just whenever it strikes.
• 28:27
  Speaker 5: And then do you plot out what you're gonna write
• 28:31
  Speaker 5: or do you tend to just let the ideas flow
• 28:34
  Speaker 5: as you're listening to the music and progressing. Would you
• 28:37
  Speaker 5: call yourself a piancer or a planner? Okay, I think
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: I'm more of a planner.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: I do like to have everything kind of at least
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: almost like a storyboard. I usually like to do like
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: a storyboard and then write kind of based in or
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: within that. I should say, yeah, fantastic.
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: One last question, what next? Are you're working on a
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: new book, or you're advising this book or what can
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: we look forward to seeing from you next?
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: A little bit of everything. So I currently this book,
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: I have a screenplay already written, but we're we're reworking
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: it a little bit, so we're the idea is to
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: kind of turn this one into a limited series for
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: like a streamer like Netflix or whatever. So that's kind
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: of what we're working on right now. I do have
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: two or three other books in the works of not
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: related to this one. They'll be totally different. They might
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: even be completely different genres, like one is a kid's book.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: Idea I have so that'll be completely different from this,
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: and then another one's a little bit of a thriller still,
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: but all of these things are in the works at
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: the moment in very early stages, so fantastic.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: Well, I can't wait to see what happens next. Thank
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: you so much for being on the podcast, Heather, Thank
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: you both.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it.
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: Just a few parting words, of course, I've got to
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: talk about the cruise because at this point it's barely
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: more than a month away. It's March seventh through the fifteenth. Laura,
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: you've been on several of these. Now, what's your favorite
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: part of the cruise? The writer Gun.
• 30:28
  Speaker 5: Cruise, Writer Kun Cruise. Well, I obviously getting to meet
• 30:34
  Speaker 5: a fantastic group of people and work with them one
• 30:37
  Speaker 5: on one individually much. But also I need to start
• 30:41
  Speaker 5: packing because we might have nights that we want to
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: dress for dinner. And I'm Sue Hooper excited that we
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: are going on a tropical eight y cruise again the
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: Eastern Caribbean. This time we're going to see some places
• 30:57
  Speaker 5: we've never seen before, stopping in the Dominican Public and
• 31:01
  Speaker 5: Puerto Rico and the Bahamas, and I can't wait I'm
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: hopeful that we'll see some wildlife from the boat. Maybe
• 31:10
  Speaker 5: we'll get to see some fun things when we dock,
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: and of course we'll be working on manuscripts. So we
• 31:18
  Speaker 5: work hard, we play hard, we have a fantastic time,
• 31:21
  Speaker 5: and usually the groups of people who come together on
• 31:24
  Speaker 5: these cruises stay connected and become best supporters and cheerleaders.
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: So not only do you have the benefit of the cruise,
• 31:34
  Speaker 5: but it's something that you carry away with you as well,
• 31:37
  Speaker 5: and it helps you in the future.
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: Very well. Put we fly in and out of Fort
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: Lauderdale March seventh through the fifteenth, over twenty hours of
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: writing instruction from Lara I. Betsy Kolakowski, got an onboard agent,
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: Catherine Sans, who is willing to talk to each and
• 31:54
  Speaker 4: every one of you. Great scenery and a great time,
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: so don't make out, all right. For more information or
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: to register, visit the writer Consite, which of course is
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: www dot writer con dot com. All right, hope to
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: see you on board until next time. Keep writing and
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: remember you cannot fail if you refuse to quit. All right,
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: See you next time.