Latest / The Steep Stuff Podcast / Jordyn Milbrath | Chasing Jo !

Transcript

Jordyn Milbrath | Chasing Jo ! · The Steep Stuff Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hey guys, welcome back to the Steep Stuff Podcast.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, james Lauriello, and today we have such a fun episode in store for you guys.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Jordan Melbrath, the pride of Boulder, colorado, joins us on the pod.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: If you guys are not familiar with Jordan, you probably recognize that name from her popular YouTube channel, chasing Joe.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: That kind of portrays her, you know, chasing her around the Cirque Series races all around the Mountain West as well as Europe, kind of detailing her 2023 season.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: What a fun episode.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: We got into all kinds of fun stuff.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: This is not just a running podcast.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: We talk about the leap that they made, her and her fiance Chase and starting their own business and kind of leaving that corporate America world, starting their own business and kind of leaving that corporate America world.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: We do talk about her 2023 and upcoming 2024 season.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: But we also talk about so much more than running.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: We get into kind of her bikepacking adventures and just a lot of the you know, kind of just all kinds of fun stuff that she's doing in the outdoor space.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: So, without further ado, I hope you guys enjoy this episode.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: This is one of my personal favorites.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: It's one of inspiration and I hope you guys enjoy this episode.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: This is one of my personal favorites.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: It's time.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: We are live.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: So how do you pronounce your last name?
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Milbrath.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's that easy.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm funny with last names.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: My last name's got a lot of vowels, so it's always, people can never get it right.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: So, oh yeah, so jordan millbrath yes well, thank you so much for coming on the pod thanks for having me I'm so psyched to chat today welcome to the steep stuff.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, here, bring your.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Uh, bring your, bring yourself a little bit closer, or you can just keep it it.
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: There you go, that's perfect.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Is this okay, that's perfect.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Keep it like no, no, you can do it, you can move it.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're good, I can.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like an arm, you can.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: It's all put together and connected.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Keep it like a fist away.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Okay, is that okay?
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Day going.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: Thank you, dude, it's been so good.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Today's been a good day.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Has it Got my run in?
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: I got a bunch of work done this morning and Chase and I are starting our second business and got a bunch of fun stuff going on on for that today.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: So I love your Instagram stories.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: I see these like lightning bolt earrings and stuff.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: I almost got one for set for my fiance.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: I was like oh my God, this is so cool.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: You should, yeah, no, we uh that was actually kind of a funny one.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: So last year we did a campaign with Walters and Hogset they're like a fine jeweler here in Boulder and I wanted like a little memento just to myself of, like, you know, us quitting our jobs and going on this journey of, like, you know, chasing the things that we love, right, that being a very scary thing, but having like this little reminder of like, okay, you're doing it, and like capturing that moment in momentum and being able to carry that forward, and that's kind of what the bolt was for us when we made it for us.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: And then it turned into this whole thing of people were asking about it and asking where they could get them and where they could buy them.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: We were like, oh well, it was kind of just a one-off thing and, long story short, yeah, walters and Hogsett now carries them, and that's something we never thought would have happened.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, that's been a really fun um thing to kind of explore.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Hell yeah.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Well, congrats by the way, thank you.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: So I have so much impact I mean, that's one story I want to talk about is like being your, your, your, your creator.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: You do all these amazing things.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: You're a runner, mountain runner.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: I first found out about you when I started Googling the Cirque series and learned about that racing series, and I I found this amazing YouTube channel called chasing Joe and it's got you know, you guys go so in depth.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: And then these individual races I can, you know, follow along.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: I even sent like one to my buddy.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: I was like Nick, you're in this dude Like I don't know.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: Do you remember Nick Tusa from last year?
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: He was always there, all of them, but anyway, he's an athlete.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: I've had him on the pod before.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I'll let you introduce yourself.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: You can tell everybody about who you are, how you got into running, and just give us your background.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: Oh man, I'm just Joe, that's it.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Nothing crazy, but yeah, I guess kind of getting into running.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: I don't have a traditional background in running.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: I played soccer at a really competitive level and that was the career path that I was on was to go and play that professionally.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: And, long story short, I got injured too many times uh, dislocated my knee, did some stuff there that doctors just couldn't figure out how to heal, and then eventually tore my ACL and lost um, my scholarships and opportunities to go play professionally and then eventually, tore my ACL and lost my scholarships and opportunities to go play professionally.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, it was a very devastating time of my life, especially because it was.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: You know, I think as athletes we can get really wrapped up in that being our identity of, like, I'm a soccer player, I'm a runner, and that was really hard.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: That was a hard one for me to let go.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: But after all of that had happened and after the surgery, the first thing I was able to do was run, and so that's kind of how that took off was just you know, how far can I go and how fast can I go, and so that's kind of what kickstarted me into running.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: Um, but I didn't run in college.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: I did ultras in college, cause I was slow and I liked to go far and just, you know, to have a mobile picnic in the woods, Um, but yeah, that's kind of what got me into running.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: And then now we're here.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: Where are you from?
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: I'm from here, I'm from Longmont, colorado.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, you're a Coloradan, I am, so you've got all the red blood cells All of it.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: I'm from, I'm from Florida, so no, so, man, no blood.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no blood cells well, I've been here for a while, so you get them as you as you go, but that's wild, okay.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: So, running after college, let's talk about.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: So.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: I was a competitive soccer player myself.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: No way, yeah, not, not on a collegiate track, I was just very.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: I had speed, let's put it that way.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: Didn't know how to use it, um.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, you could do what you want with that, but yeah, I, I loved the sport of soccer and then I have like a very similar trajectory.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: I broke an ankle and it kind of derailed that and and you know, somehow I ended up running after I gained a bunch of weight and I was in grad school.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: So you look like a forward.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Were you a forward?
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: No, it was a um defense, left defense.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: I did play forward for a while.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Um, I, you know my footwork was dog shit I was not.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: I like I couldn't control the ball.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I can't kick very good.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: I was more better at like being able.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: I'm very physical, so I was better at taking the ball off of someone and just booting it up and hoping someone got it and just and I had the speed to be able to get away from you or or get you, you know yeah, I don't know we're side tangent, but you needed to put that out there what did?
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: Did you play?
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: I was a goalie.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: You're really.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: That's the hardest position.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I never wanted to be a goalie either.
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: I was a defender for, you know, my the majority of my career.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: And then we had a really short goalkeeper ball was coming in.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: I jumped up and caught it and I was like a punishment.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: My coach put me in for the penalty kick and I caught it and then I got stuck as goalie for the rest of my career.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, how old were you when you first started playing?
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, itty bitty.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: Uh, you know.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was about me too.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: That's wild.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: What a fun sport though.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the best, it's so fun.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: Who was so?
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: Did you were your favorite players?
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: Than goalies or no, I would say wombach was one of them.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: Rampino a lot, not goalies, were kind of the best ones I got to meet me a ham when I was a kid.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: You did well, actually it was all because my little sister.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: So my sister was like we're all little italian people, you know, so like we're me, and ham is pretty tiny too.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: But anyway, long story short.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: Um, dude, my sister like won this, like kellogg's pop tart, like giveaway thing those things work.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: They're real they are real, dude.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: I had like a year so we won like a year supply of pop tarts.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: I'm not joking, like I'll never forget.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Like my grandfather came down, like like we went to orlando, my sister met me a ham.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: I saw her from afar.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: I don't remember if I got to like say hi to her, but my sister got to do this like little soccer clinic with her when she was a little young.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: But the best part of this entire experience was that like he filled up the bed of his truck with Pop-Tarts.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: That's amazing With strawberry Pop-Tarts.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: We had them for months.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: It was incredible, it's like every child's dream.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: It really was.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: That's awesome, crazy, tangent.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: So yeah, soccer.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: So you said you played at the collegiate level.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: Were you trying to?
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: Trying to.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: I was on track for the 2016 Olympics Olympic team.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: That's where I was headed.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: And I was being recruited to go and play in Europe for the European teams.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: And so college was like, yeah, I was a part of it and I was going to go play in Oregon.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Um, but yeah, a lot of that kind of fell through after those knee injuries and that ACL tear and yeah, that's just kind of how it went.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sorry to hear that.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: That's okay, it all works out.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: It's interesting how your life takes these, these twists and turns, and now you're yeah, yeah yeah, I think it all works out for the better right.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: It doesn't seem like it in the moment.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: It seems like everything's crashing and burning, but it's like oh, I will, I wouldn't have found running and cycling if it hadn't happened yeah so it all works out so one of the things I really appreciate about your profile and who you are is you're not just a runner, you're a cyclist.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: You do a lot of like you, you, you how do I say this?
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: You market yourself as an athlete that does a lot of different things.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Maybe unpack that a little bit.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I think honestly, some of that started from soccer, right Of like my entire identity, that was my whole life, and so when that ended, it was like, oh well, if I'm not a soccer player anymore, then who the heck am I?
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: And that that was a really scary and hard thing to experience as, like a 17 year old right Of like, I just didn't understand it.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, moving forward into these sports and even, you know, trying to get into professional running, I'm really trying to keep an arm's length out of that of like.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm not just a runner, I'm also a cyclist, I'm also a business owner, I'm also X, y and Z, and so I think that's kind of a personal thing, but then also from a business standpoint right, I don't want to just be one thing.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: I am a multifaceted athlete, like I'm an athlete, I'm not just a runner.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: I can do multiple things, and so I think that's also just like an authentic thing that I want to share is I don't want to niche down and become this small thing that fits into a box.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: I want to show that I'm everything and I might fit into multiple boxes and I might not be the biggest, shiniest thing in the box, but I'm in multiple and so that's kind of kind of where I'm at with that one.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: No, I love that.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: And I think that's really important from an identity perspective, cause, like I'll put myself as a runner, like I am.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: I'm professional trail runner.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: I run for like, I identify with the brands I run for and this, that and the other, and when I get injured I'm like, oh my God, the world's over and you have to completely reassess, whereas I feel like being able to not just run but cycle and have all these different things.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Even if you're like a ski, it doesn't matter what it is.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: I have all these different things to pour yourself into, like now that I have the podcast, like for me, I I really can like feel that on a deep level, because now I don't just associate myself with one thing, I associate myself as many things, so it's multiple identities, you know for sure.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: And how does that feel?
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: Of like not being just one thing, of feeling like I can pour into.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: It feels so like, for instance, um, you and I will both be.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: We'll be honest with you.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: It feels so like, for instance, um, you and I are both be.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: We'll be racing each other at multiple races this year Right and at the pro level of the Cirque series races, like some of the best athletes in the world come out to do these Right.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: And I'll be honest with you last year, the athlete I was because it was the first year I was sponsored I was, I was working with, still working with ultimate direction and it was the first year I was on a contract and I just put so much emphasis on like I have to win this race, I have to do well and have to do all these different things because I want to get renewed.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: And then, like this year, it's not that I don't care, it's just that like the pressure's off.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: I don't feel.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: I feel like all right, I had this year to do that crazy thing.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Now I'm, I'm just so much more um, I am, I'm just, I'm almost like, evolved in a lot of ways.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Is that weird?
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not at all.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: I resonate with that a lot because last year I kind of had a similar experience of it was my first year racing in that pro category right, but like.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: I didn't have any sponsors, I had no pressure on me.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: But all of a sudden I felt that pressure of like I have to perform and I have to win these races.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: And, oh my God, chase and I quit our jobs to do this Like I need to be able to.
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: You know, we need to be able to pay for things Like I need.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: There was a lot of pressure there.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Now this year, I'm kind of like I'm going to go out and have fun.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: It is what it is, and I it feels good to kind of like let that go, cause I think it also.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: I think it makes you dangerous too.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: In what way?
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: On race day, like I don't know.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: I just I feel like and I don't.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: I was literally just talking to someone about this today, my soon to be brother-in-law and we were chatting about just competition.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Because he, he like gets sick before, like his race, he gets super into it and like he puts a lot of emphasis on it.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: He'll ask me two dozen questions a day before this on.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: He'll ask me two dozen questions a day before and nothing wrong with that Like he wants to have a perfect day.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: Totally no day's ever going to be perfect and I think that's the first thing I tell him is like, dude, you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself, you know.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: But I also think, with taking the pressure off, I think for myself, trying to be at that level, I think it might actually help me get to a higher level, I agree, and make me more dangerous on race day.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree and make me more dangerous on race day.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe not, maybe I'll come in last place.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: I'm fine with that, whatever.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: But that pressure is off and that mental clarity is now there, because you're like I'm going to perform However I can perform this day and it's like, yeah, and that's all you can do anyways.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: Right, all the training leading up to that is isn't going to change, based on an hour before the race, you know.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think it does make you it's like a secret weapon to have in the pocket.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I agree.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: So one of the things you had kind of touched on and I want to learn a little bit more about your story.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: You said you and chase are on this journey.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Now where were you working corporate in America and you left your jobs to go.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Can you unpack that a little bit?
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sure.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: So I went to school for integrative physiology and business.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: My whole plan was to become an orthopedic surgeon and start my own practice, so I was on pre-med route.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: And I ended up working in a tech startup and learned so much from that experience.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: Good and bad and long story short, that company went under.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Um, good and bad and long story short, that company went under.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: And so after that company had gone under, you know, I had kind of had my taste of like not even corporate nine to five, but just like hustling and working so hard and not having boundaries with work, like working all day and all night.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: And my partner chase, he worked at a cycling apparel company and so he was a graphic designer and designing all of their apparel.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: nine to five.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: He was in that court like that job.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: Um, long story short, we just hated it.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: We hated the routine that we were in and how it made us feel and that we were, you know, going to work, coming back, watching TV, eating dinner, going to bed.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: I feel like my fiance and I are in that same thing right now.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: So yeah, which is fine.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, if people are in it and like they, whether they enjoy it or not, I understand.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: There's more to life, though.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Totally there, totally is, and I think that's the thing is.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: There's a decision, both ways.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: You are choosing which one you are doing, and we were at a point where we could decide and take on that other, scarier option and so I was like all right, chase, let's, let's do it Like I want to do this.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: Let's move into the truck, let's start our you know small media agency and just see what happens.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Cause, worst case scenario there's always nine to five jobs out there Like we can come back and get into it if we need to.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: But let's see how this goes, because I'll be more upset about having this question mark in 30 years than I will be if we have to work a nine to five and we just lost income for like a year you know, so yeah, that's kind of how we got into into that.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: Oh my God, so I love it.
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: I can resonate on so many ways.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: So I've, I went to, I did the proper thing that everybody tells you to do.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: You know you get.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: You get your undergraduate.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: I studied geology in undergrad I don't even I don't know what I was doing, but anyway, I studied geology undergrad Great thing Worked as a professional geologist for a little while and then went to business school route and got my MBA from a very prestigious university.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: And I've worked corporate finance now for almost five years and don't be wrong, job is awesome, it pays better than I could ever imagine.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: All, all, all, all the basic needs are taken care of.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: But I always wonder and I I'm always left wondering, like dude, like that corporate america thing, like I, it just doesn't sit.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: There's something about it like you know, I don't know, it's just not.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: It's not me, I'm an outs, I'm an outdoors guy.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I gotta be outside doing stuff all the time.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: So it is that constant friction in my life where I feel like monday through friday I am constantly fighting like I gotta, I gotta get out, I gotta go run and trying to balance that with training professionally so hard and then and then, like you said, it's like that you know you get into this routine.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: You get home from work, or you get home from you know, after work you go train, and after you train, it's like like you're you're watching TV, like right now I'm watching.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: What are we watching?
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Uh, the Amish show.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: Breaking Amish and like I just find myself doing this like, almost like cyclically, and I'm like dude, there's gotta be more to life to this.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: We got to make a change somewhere.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, so I can, I can resonate that in a lot of ways yeah, and it was really funny because so Chase and I have known each other since middle school.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: We've been best friends our entire lives.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: And it was funny because he asked he was like, okay, I need to ask a real question Do you want an engagement ring or do you want the topper for the truck?
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: And I was like I want the topper for the truck.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: We, that's what we got.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: And that's what we lived out of for eight months, I think, last year.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, yeah.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: So talk to me, talk to me about the media agency you guys launched.
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so we started just with the YouTube channel chasing Joe right, he's chased.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: I'm Joe, he's following me with a camera all the time.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: And so we were like all right, that's fitting, um, and we would just do like little videos here and there.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Um, and then this year or last year, when we kind of started that media agency, we're like okay, let's document the circ series and my transition of, like amateur runner that has no ncaa background, that's trying to become a professional runner, let's like document that transition.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: No one shows that.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, like people show the people that have already made it, but that transition isn't talked about.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: And so it's so hard, it's the the hardest part Right Exactly, and it's like, as you know, these younger athletes are also trying to pursue that.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: There's no guidance there, it's just one big question mark.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: And so, anyway, that was kind of the big thing that prompted, you know, us documenting that and showing that.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: And along the way, we started picking up different clients and different people that you know liked the videos we were putting out and they're like hey, can you do an ad for this or a campaign for this?
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: And we were like, oh yeah, sure we can, we can figure that out.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: Right, Like again, coming from like a science background and a graphic design background, we're like, okay, how do we make these?
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: I mean it's so professional I'm not going to lie, it's so professionally done.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: The first time I saw it I thought it was like an offshoot of the Cirque series.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: I thought it was like their promotional videos and then, I realized I'm like no, it's not.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: I'm like damn, these guys do a really good job.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: That's all Chase.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: Literally all.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Chase.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: He's so talented and that's the funny thing too is you'll watch these Cirque videos and there's like drone footage there's, there's he's like in 50 places on the mountain at once and it's literally him running around by himself filming everything.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Has Julian like reached out to you guys at all To like to like?
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Really no, I would have that conversation Cause like dude.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: Well, actually let me take that back.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: We know, julian pretty well.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: He's a great guy and we talked to him a little bit about it and he's very organic about their marketing and the Cirque series and how it's talked about and so, even though it's not necessarily something sponsored, he supports it.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: But yeah, no, there is no relationship between the Cirque series videos that we put out and him being a part of it.
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, interesting, yeah, interesting, yeah.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: I just thought it was so well done.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: I was like wow thank you so much.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: I would say Chase is more of a professional runner than I am.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: He's running around the whole mountain getting everything, um, but yeah, yeah, that.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: So that that was kind of the Cirque series bit.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: And then, um, we did the campaigns and ads with a handful of clients.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: That kind of started with, uh, outside magazine.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: We had a couple of people that we knew there and so we were able to make those relationships with different clients Um, kind of that way yeah.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then just yeah, me reaching out to people, people reaching back out to us, it was.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: It was a lot of learning of like, oh, okay, like, how do I write up a contract?
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know how to do this I was going to ask you like, even like coming up.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: So it's funny.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Like now I'm in that process with the podcast of like starting to think about advertisers and stuff like that and like talking to brands and it's like how do I even value this?
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: Like I don't, I don't know.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: You know like I'm like reaching out to like other podcasters that are in the scene, you know, and like asking them questions, and they're like giving me the best feedback they can get.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: I'm like, whoa, okay, I'm gonna this is gonna be a very controversial thing, but here we go.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: We athletes, especially in the running space, are getting so underpaid, oh dude, for their collaborations and their work.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: I, oh my gosh, the amount of money that is in this space and that is available for these big brands and companies to put towards their athletes.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: They're not, and that's something that we learned, just you know, through our own experience and other people being in big agencies.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: But, like, it all started with the same thing of me asking other creators like how much are you getting paid for this, how much are you asking for and how are you evaluating this?
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: and the numbers that they would tell me I'd be like that's like five times the amount that I'm pitching well, put it this way, it's a little weird being a professional athlete in the sport and then talking to because, like, when you're a professional athlete in the sport, there's ndas, we can't discuss our contract for sure right but I'm also a podcaster in the sport so I also have been able and this might be controversial, but like I have an idea like put it this way I know how much other podcasters.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: I've been told how, what those advertising contracts look like and how much can be made there.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Totally obviously I won't disclose that information, but seeing that now as a professional athlete, I'm like damn dude, like there's some serious money to be made here yeah, for real, and it's.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: I have such a hard time with that because it feels like they're trying to keep people from having the conversation so that they don't need to pay them appropriately.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree in a lot of ways.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: I think it depends on the brand.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Some brands are very transparent, some brands aren't, but yes, it is awfully interesting and this goes all the way up, this goes to track and field, this goes across the board yeah.
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: You know how brands really want to go out of their way to kind of protect that and make sure there's NDAs in place.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: So you can't discuss certain things.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's tricky.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: It is tricky.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: It's a weird thing to navigate.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: It is Well, and it's tricky now too.
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: Especially it's.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: It feels like you can't just be a professional runner anymore, you can't just run.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: They expect you to be a content creator on top of that, and it's like those are two different jobs.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Unless you're Joseph gray, jim Walmsley in court.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Even Courtney's pretty active on social media.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: But, like I'd say, joseph gray, jim Walmsley are the two people that I can point to be like.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Those are the two.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Very that's rare air.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: You know where you can get away with not having to do really anything on social media.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: Have everybody do that stuff for you, you know.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: But like outside of that, yes, you have to have some sort of media presence or some way a podcast or whatever you know.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: Look at, look at Andy.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: You know Andy's got the trail team and stuff like that.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: You know some other way to differentiate yourself.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry to create value in the marketplace.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: you know, yeah, it's tricky.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: It's really tricky, especially for athletes that are just getting into this and don't understand how to navigate this world.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: It's hard.
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: So it's funny, I, literally before you walked in, I had Andy on and we were chatting and one of the you know the big, the big thing we're obviously we always talk about as a trail team, which is such an incredible thing he built.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: But one of the things that I thought was interesting, that they're providing a lot of value to, is new up and coming athletes and teaching them like it's not just about the running aspect.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: You need to build a brand image and have basically brand yourself and market yourself you are a business and now you need to learn how to manage a business.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: And that's hard because you're going into it thinking, oh, I just need to run and train all the time.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: That's hard because you're going into it thinking, oh, I just need to run and train all the time and it's like, oh no, you got to know how to read contracts and these.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: You know negotiations and all these things See this is why I think, like you, you are the perfect professional athlete in a lot of ways when you think about it, because you have that idea.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Now you know how to market yourself right.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: You've got the fitness aspect and the running aspect, but it's I think I meet so many I've had even on this podcast, I've had so many incredible runners that will far better than I'll ever be Okay, just God gifted.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: But some of them just like people, a lot of people, if they think they just expect, like the brands, to either reach out to you or it just to come to you in one way, shape or form, maybe by winning a race or this other.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: That doesn't always happen, man Like, and if somebody builds a door, like you have to be prepared to rip it off its hinges to get to get to that level, you know what I'm saying.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: So for for these marketing contracts, is it usually you reaching out to people or is it them coming to you?
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: Is it kind of both?
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: I would say it's a little bit of both we.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Let me think about this.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: You don't have to give away any inside baseball, but curious.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we, it was a little bit of both.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: So for one that I can say is kind of like, an example was we worked with a company.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: It was like an herbal supplement company for women's menstrual cycles and like allowing them to do that in a holistic way, and they wanted to work together just on a one-off thing and I was like, actually I have an idea, why don't we turn this into a three-part campaign?
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: And so it was a little bit of both, of like me seeing an opportunity to turn it into something bigger than what they were presenting.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Um, and I would say that's kind of been the case with a lot of the people that we worked with and I would say, yeah, it's been about maybe 60, 40, 40% reach out to me, but I'm majority reaching out to people and being like, hey, we see this not even a problem, right, like quote unquote problem.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: But we see this, you know, maybe lack in your brand and here's how we can solve that issue.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Like we, we see something that we can help with.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: And I think that's the biggest thing is, if we're able to see something that we can provide value in, then I'll reach out.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: But it's not just like yeah, but it's not just like a hey, let me collaborate with you guys, Cause you're in the trail space, right?
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Like that's not it.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: It's it's if I see something that we can help with, then we'll reach out, but otherwise I'm like I'm not going to reach out to a brand just because they're a well-known brand.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Right, right, right.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: That's really interesting to me.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: Wow so, and you don't have any background in marketing, you just Nope.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Some people, I guess, just have it like it's natural.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: I mean well, okay, To be fair.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: I so, yeah, like I said, I went to school for integrative physiology and then I minored business, so like there's like a little piece there, I have an mba and I don't know shit about right.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Right, I was like there's not really anything in that, but, um, yeah, I don't know, dude, I had like one of the best like marketing professors in the world, like in graduate school, I don't know shit, I don't know anything, I'm clueless.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: I remember like she like used to put these diagrams on, like I think the pitch that I've always used for brands is like oh, brand association, brand awareness.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: I've always used that and like people eat that up?
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, they do, totally do.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: It's like certain keywords, certain things.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, I'll just slide that in there.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: I'll be fine with it, but really I have no idea.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: That's okay, everyone's baking it Exactly, if you think about it, right, right, that's the thing that I learned working at this startup.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Right, I'm like I'm sorry, but these guys these guys got $8 million in funding for this.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: I can figure out how to start a media agency.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Like it's yeah.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: As long as you're willing to like learn and keep learning.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: I think anyone can figure this out.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, how's the journey been so far?
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: In which part?
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: Stress, just that whole thing.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Like.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: What do you think Like, would you like?
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: What do you think like, would you like?
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Do you think corporate America is a better fit, or do you think this new journey you're on now is a better fit?
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: oh, this new journey, for sure I will never go back.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: You seem so happy, so that's why so happy, yeah yeah, I mean, yeah, there it's been a lot the past few years in terms of just like everything in life, and I think everybody has gone through like something similar just since COVID Right.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Like life has been hard, but in the sense of of business, since that's what we're talking about, I would say, yeah, that we're.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: We're going to be in this for a while.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: We're starting business number two and business number three and it's like it keeps getting easier.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: It wasn't easy to start, but it keeps getting easier to kind of start these and and let those, let that momentum carry you forward.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, that's amazing.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, so let's talk.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: Let's talk.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: Joe the runner, oh, gosh.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's get into it.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: So first let's, let's get it, let's get into it.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: So first, let's let's talk about, let's talk about your 2023 season, sure, and we can build off that.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: I feel like one of the things I really found super inspiring was like you documented, like trying, like you're racing these like killers, like giselle slot, boom um janelle links, grayson murphy, like straight killers.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: I was intimidating.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Was that hard to like?
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: What did you think?
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: those are some real fast girlies I'll tell you what, oh my gosh, it was.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: It was scary in the sense that I felt so much pressure coming from myself.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Again, I wasn't sponsored at all, I had nobody putting this pressure on me, it was coming entirely from me.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: Um, but I had so much pressure to just like be there already, to like just know how to race properly, especially these shorter races, right Like I raced ultras.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: So the coming back down to like 10 mile, eight mile races, like that's a totally different game and it was really intimidating because I would line up next to these people and I had known some of them really well.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: I was really good friends with them, you know, and like had gone on runs with these girls.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: So it's like I think that personal connection actually dampened the fear of like racing against them, knowing what their credentials were, because I knew them on a personal level.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: But the people that I didn't know, it was like okay, like I'm just supposed to run really fast and like I hope I can, you know, and so it was like a mix of both, but I think the majority of it came more from me just expecting to know how to do it already, rather than who the actual person was next to me.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what was, what was your training, like going into these, like were you kind of figuring it out as you were going?
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: Uh, it was a loose program.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: I uh, so I've never had a coach until actually until the a basin race of last year, which I can get into later.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: But, um, yeah, I I've never had a running coach, Didn't have one leading into the Cirque.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Um, we, I would train with the trail team here in Boulder and like run with those girls, and when that was like a small group and we would just have those trainings every, you know, tuesday and Thursday, whatever it was.
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: Um, but then, yeah, everything was kind of like, well, I'm going to run kind of what I know, based on ultras and what I would do for that, and just do it a little bit faster and a little bit shorter, and so it was really just like me kind of doing whatever.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: No structured workouts no structure.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: It was loose and so which.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: Looking back at it now I'm not mad because I think that allowed me that wiggle room to also figure out what I liked, what I didn't like, what was working for me and how to also balance that with a new business.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: I agree, yeah.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: I feel like if you're putting too much emphasis, especially with this, this business that like dude, that's pressure in its own right.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: You're like oh, you're you're not working anymore Like you got to make this work Totally.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: If you're putting all that pressure on also by trying to become a professional runner, it's like something's got to give at some point.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: So, being fluid, I feel like allowing yourself to explore.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's probably the smartest way you could have done it.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think I learned a lot in that too, because last year I you won't see it in, you might see it a little bit in those Cirque videos, but like I was anxious as hell, I had so much anxiety on those start lines that like I would get maybe you know we would, we would have that start line, you know sprint right, Like you go off the start line and then you start going up the first hill and I would feel like I was having a panic attack of just like so anxious because I was so scared of like how I was performing and then it would spiral so quickly downhill, and so last year was actually a really hard season.
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: Like I didn't feel like I did well at all, um, and that was really hard yeah.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, thank you, and thank you for being open about it.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: I just I like I said, and I'll just keep going back to how much I enjoy the, you know, and I just have a million questions.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: So so it was difficult and you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: And then was there any point where the pressure started coming off?
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: And especially because, like you start off, I think it was the first first race was snowbird last year, if I remember correctly um, then you make your way into brighton and then you got to go to alaska.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: At any point did the pressure start to fade off, or each one was like recurringly tough.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: It was kind of each one was its own challenge.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: It was really mentally a challenge, so good on you then for, like, keep showing up to the start line.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: So if you're putting on that pressure, like what was the reason?
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: Like I kept pushing you to keep turning up and going.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: The fact that, like it felt like everything rode on it right, we put our jobs.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: For this I told Chase I was like give me a year to do this, like I can do this.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: And so it was, you know, kind of that battle of like I not only needed to show Chase and everybody else in the world right, cause we're documenting this whole thing that I can do this, but also me, and that was kind of a weird balance, because I'm doing this for me anyways.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: So why do I feel like I have all this pressure coming from other people when it's entirely coming from me?
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: And I think it took me an entire season to finally start figuring that out.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: So I never felt it drop Until we were in Alieska, the Alaska race, and Jamie Bruce says she's a OCR racer and she's up in Montana.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Um, her and her husband, pat, came up to us at that race and we're like, hey, like are you guys?
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: You know chase and Joe?
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: And we were like, yeah, we are.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: And they were like, oh well, we watch your videos, like they're so cool, you know, yada, yada.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: And we were like, oh my gosh, like you watch them, thank you.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: And it was so cool.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: Didn't really think much of it.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: And then at the a basin race, she was there again and at the end of that race she came up to me and was like hey, like I hope this isn't too forward.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: But like, do you have a coach?
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: And I was like, no, actually I don't.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: And she was like well, if you're looking for one like I, we would love to coach you.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: And so that's who I've been working with since that last race, like since you know, last season basically, and working with them through the winter and, oh my gosh, I can't even tell you how dramatic that mindset is now, like I'm so excited to go into this season, even if I don't physically perform well, just to see how mentally different it is because of all the work that we've done mentally in this past.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: You know training block Um, so yeah.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: I love that, I love that.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: So you're so not just mentally right, I mean, you're obviously going to be physically ready If you take someone that's just kind of like figuring things out and then you put them in structure you're going to have, you're going to, you're going to improve by leaps and bounds just by having a structure.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: So that's, that's amazing and you're really liking it so far, like having a coach.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's nice to have it all written out for you, right.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: It is Well, and the thing is is like I've had coaches my whole life with soccer right.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: And so I've had some really good coaches, but I ended with really bad coaches, and so that's why I was like I don't want coaches anymore.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: I don't need that pressure coming from other people to expect me to perform a certain way and then, like being you know, I didn't like that feeling of like letting people down.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: I hated that, still hate that, and so I was really scared to have a coach again because I was like, oh, I don't want to feel that way and and they.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: It feels like I'm in a movie, like I have no other way to explain it other than like, if you watch, like any, the eagle or like one of those types of movies, right, where like the coach and athlete dynamic is like just symbiotic and like magical.
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: That's what it feels like the thing is, too, is it's like man.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: If you and like I have, I love my, like I have eline tabor that coach me.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: Oh, no way, I went to school with them, did you what?
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: Oh, we'll talk about that later.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: They're coming on the podcast on sunday.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Actually, they're coming to my house how exciting anyway, they um, like dude, I couldn't think of like two more supportive people.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: Like they text me, like we're always texting, like you know, and like they're always giving me support, and then like we have sheets that I have to fill out and all that you know for the training and all that, but like two of the most supportive humans and like they know exactly, like if I'm going through a tough time, I'm like yo, guys, this is a stressful week, I got shit going on.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: Like blah, blah, blah, and like just they'll, they'll make the adjustments they need.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: They just make it really easy.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, without making you feel guilty about it either.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I yeah 10's.
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: I yeah 10 out of 10 recommend.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, that's amazing.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: And that's I mean, that's kind of how this relationship is turned out too.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: So Jamie does all of my, you know, like running, training, that scheduling but, then Pat is a wrestler and so what he is doing is all of my strength training and all of my mental training, and that has been just mind boggling.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: Like the difference that I've seen in my life from that is is is crazy, that's amazing.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: It's going to really help you make the jump too, like if you do want to pursue like that sponsorship world of the pro runner life, like it's not just about running around in the Hills anymore, like it's about the mental aspect is so important.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: The strength aspect is just as important.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: I mean totally If, put it this way, like I just got like really serious and regimented about my strength this year and got a strength and conditioning coach and like dude, that changed the game for me.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: Like I was like Whoa, this is, this is, this is really nice.
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I think that that that and the I think the mental part too, like just the.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: I think the mental part might even be the most important out of all of them.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: Just putting all that together really, you know, makes it the whole package.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: Well, and I think that's the thing too is like that is such a delicate world but it's so untapped of like.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: If you can figure out your mental space, oh my gosh, you are unstoppable.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: Literally and in any sport but like.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: In life, in, oh my gosh, you are unstoppable, literally in any sport, but like in life.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: In life, yeah, yeah, like my coach, pat, he'll always say like there's always ice, right, but if you have the tools to stop you from slipping down the ice like, you're gonna get to the mountain faster and it's so interesting to think about that because you'll feel it right now.
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: I'll have like those days or those weeks or even those training blocks where I'm like oh my god, I'm just sliding down this ice, this ice, like I feel awful, I'm in a bad headspace, bad physical, whatever it is, and now it's like having those tools to like help with that is game changer.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: And the good thing too is, like I don't know, I think for me it's always nice to, if you're going through a stressful time or stressful week, whatever like to be able to know yourself enough to be able to put the brakes on, but also being able to communicate that with the coach, saying like yes, and like you know, I'm going to dial it back this week.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Cortisol levels might be too high.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: I'm very stressed out, you know, and just being able to have that conversations support.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: Totally yeah, and especially, like I said, coming from the not so great soccer coaches that was.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: That was hard for me to do at first of feeling like I could communicate that without there being repercussions, and so, yeah, that's been an interesting thing to kind of see and live out now I have a question.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: So you were a goalie.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: I feel like to be a goalie.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: You have to have no fear.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: In a lot of ways, there's a possibility not only is someone kicking a ball at your face, you could get kicked, but you could also nail your head on a crossbar or on the bar of the goal.
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: Do you have like, like how does that translate to downhill running?
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: Like, do you have like no fear when you downhill?
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: That's my, that's my shit.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Really I love downhill running.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, very interesting.
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: And I think you know, yeah, part of that is the whole no fear thing.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: And then also for 15 years I was literally throwing myself at people and the ground and posts that like if I fall and trip running, I'm like okay, sweet, we're throwing a shoulder and we'll just roll a little bit, but yeah, I love it okay, all right, I just kind of I don't know.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: I just randomly I just was able to put that together and I was like interesting.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, kind of the same with mountain biking.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: It's so, so much fun, yeah, oh, let's talk about all right, I don't sorry, I'm bouncing all over the place.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: We'll get into mountain biking first things first you went to school with taber and elon I did.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so actually we were in a quirms, is that what it was?
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: It was like a math class and taber, my partner chase, and I were in it, and then I had to leave and go take a different math class.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: So I like met her that way and her boyfriend had class together yeah, god, what a what a small world, small world.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're good people, they're the best I don't know them that well but from the small, the few interactions I have had with them like, they seem like really great people two of the best.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm getting them to come on sunday, so right on too pumped for that.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: Uh, yeah, um, okay, let's, let's transition.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: I want I started with the season, so I'm gonna end with the season so we get through the 2023 season.
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: We're going through what was your favorite race that's tricky alaska was really really cool did you spend a lot of time, a lot of time out there we were there for a week so yeah kind of we were able to explore a little bit um beforehand and then like a day afterwards, but ingleburg, I think, has a special place in my heart, so that I think was my favorite race.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: I'm bummed they got rid of that race this year.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: Me too I.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: I've heard rumors that it'll come back eventually but I don't know.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: I was hoping that they, like, would add something in place, like in in the us, maybe, like, maybe bring back like the sun valley race or something like that, but I guess not.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah, I.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: So I'm not on the star list for aliaska next year.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: I'm really hoping to make it out there.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: I want to do it.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: That race looks insane that one was cool.
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: That one was cool because it reminded me of, you know, kind of the alps, which is where chase and I had lived there for a couple of summers.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: Back to back to back.
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: And so we, yeah, we lived in Chamonix in like 2019 or something, and Alaska kind of reminded me of that, and so you know, having that pretty jarring mountain that you're running up and down.
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: It's just so so high.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: It's so steep yeah.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: And it's just it feels so exposed and the day that we ran it it it was rainy and cloudy and so you were just kind of in the clouds and that's kind of.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: My favorite environment is when it's a little bit like cloudy, dark and gloomy and, honestly, a little bit shitty.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: That's my favorite same yeah, and so that was just a really fun race that first climb is like 3 000 feet.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: Right, it's so gnarly.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like they send you you just from the start.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: Is it bizarre looking out and seeing just David Norris just running along the ridge above you?
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: It's so funny Chase was.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: I remember he was doing the drone flying everything.
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: He was like oh, there he goes.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: You could pick out certain people and you just see them flying.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure it's so cool.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: Super cool.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: All right, so that was.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: What did you think of Brighton?
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: So I'm in, I know you.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: We can talk about that in a second, but, like Brighton's in a couple of weeks, I'm so excited for this race.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: What did you think?
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: It's a cool race.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: It's a really, really cool course.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: I scrambling is a little bit tricky for me.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: I've had some family deaths with climbing.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: And so that's always been something that's like a little bit there there's hesitancy there you know Um and it's just like one rock pile, though.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: right, that's it.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: It's so simple, it's not bad at all, but it's, it's, it's.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: It's always been that way for me of like not always, but after that incident my, my aunt, had had died, like she fell and something basically took her out and she yeah she had passed away.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: Um, but anyway, uh, any little thing like that, where the ground below me is moving and I'm not necessarily in control dude it just like triggers that a little bit and I'm like okay, like let's get through it.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: It's so safe and like julian does such a good job of marking everything but that was again just like another one of those mental things of like okay, I can remind myself that, like, I am safe and that I have been training for this and that I'm capable of doing this, but that one was definitely.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: That was a really mental one for me that's wild last year yeah okay, that one was hard, but the course itself once I got past that, so much fun I heard it's like so technical, like it's absolutely so fun okay yeah, and like the little rolly sections that you get and that downhill coming back, you rip, it's so it's really cool, I'm pumped.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so all right.
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: So aliaska was the favorite, all right.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about 2024 what do you got on?
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Deck.
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: Are you doing Cirque races this year or what else you got?
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I'll do the Cirque series again this year.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: I had that rest buster like a week ago.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: That was just like a fun little race.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: Shout out Greenland Trail.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was so fun.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: And then this year has been kind of a tricky one for me.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: I, after last season, wasn't totally sure, like if this was for me, just because I, honestly, it was kind of an ego thing of like, oh man, like I'm not good enough right away, like I'm not good enough right now, you know, and I wasn't sure if, like, I should go back to ultras or if I should go back to those longer endurance things.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: And so I'm doing a little bit of both this year to kind of figure out how that feels and how that plays out.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: Um, but yeah, so I'll do the majority of the Cirque races and then I have the Cocopelli trail that I'm going to go after again at the end of this year, and that's.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: I'm more excited for that than anything else that's on my agenda.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: How far is the Cocopelli trail 140.
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: Whoa, it's so far.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my gosh.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: It's primarily a mountain bike trail, so it's a not super popular I know it's like pretty flowy and like like flat.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: It's flat, I know.
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: Tim Olson.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: The only reason I knew about it was like Tim Olson did a lot of training before he did his PCTF KT on the Cocopelli trail?
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I just remember seeing that.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: But that's really cool.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: That's like northwest Colorado, something like that.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: It's like closer to Grand Junction West, yeah so it starts in Fruita Colorado, and then ends in Moab.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, I didn't know it was that far.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: So you go up and over the La Salles and kind of end it that way.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: Oh tried it, oh gosh, two years ago and I ended up dropping at like a hundred K.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: I was just so cold.
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: It was like it was on Halloween, it was October 31st.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: I was just so cold, had every layer on Um, and then actually I had like a bloody nose for like three hours.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: That wouldn't stop.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: That's a little terrifying.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Gushing Well, and then the next session or section that I was going into was like five hours without being able to see anybody, and so I was like, all right, like I don't want to call it, but I need to call it just because like I don't know what's about to happen if my nose doesn't stop bleeding and I'm cold and I'm going into a section where I can't see anybody for a while so yeah, that was round one, and now round two will be this Are you going to do like FKT, or are you just going to do it, just to try and finish it?
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: FKT.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's what I had originally gone out for a couple of years ago and that's what I would like to go after again this year, but the ultimate goal of just.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: Just try to get it done.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: Just get it done.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: That's so far.
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: 140 miles, that's so far.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh dear, get through that night section and be good.
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you this there's a lot of parallels there.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: I shouldn't say parallels.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: It's like two very different things.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: Like the long stuff is really interesting, but the short stuff is like you hurt, but for a very short period of time.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: The long stuff is like a little bit duller pain, but for a very long period of time it's a very processing.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which one do you think you like more?
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: Which one do you think you?
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: like more.
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: I like them both for different reasons.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: I think what's hard for me is I'm not good at not being good at things.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: My ego gets in the way a little bit, and so the shorter stuff is hard for me because I'm not fast.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: And so it also inspires me because I'm like okay, this is something that I'm not good at.
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: Like, let's get good at it, let's keep trying and pushing for that and being able to have those really hard, all out efforts.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: Like that feeling feels good of just really really hard and intense for a short amount of time, Um, so I really enjoy that.
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: From the shorter races, but then the longer races feel like this is going to sound kind of like woo woo, but like I feel like this is going to sound kind of like woo woo, but like I feel like running in those longer scenes is almost like a medium of being able to process things, the same way that like people use music or art or other things to be able to really get through a lot of things, Um, and so I get excited for that, but it also scares me cause you get to some places of like oh God, I've been here for an hour and I can't get out.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: Like what do I do?
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: So it's yeah, I don't know.
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: I would say they both weigh pretty equal right now.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: That's interesting yeah.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to pivot too hard, but I did have a question for you.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: Something I reminded me from one of the videos of yours as I watched is you didn't race with earphones in, and then one of the races you did race with earphones in, correct?
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: I did, yeah, a basin, I think I did.
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about that.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: Did that help you at all?
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: Or like, because I I do run a lot, I train, I was training a lot with earphones in, just because I don't know.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: I like music, it's good, but I never raced with earphones.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: What'd you think about like racing with earphones?
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: I think I did it because you know, like I said earlier I, every race was like a panic.
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it helps you get out of your own head.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: Right and I was just like, oh my God, like I need to do something different because I'm going into each of these just like panicked.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: And that race was flowy enough that I was like, okay, I think I can put headphones in for you know an hour and see how that goes, and so I did really like it.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: Do you have any issues with trying to pass people or people trying to pass you like back.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: And I'm just curious Cause, like with headphones or with your earphones, cause I was just curious to see, like, if someone's trying to like get around you or something like that, or if you're trying to get around somebody and like it's almost like hard.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: I'm just curious Cause I might do it myself for one of the races.
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: I think I I normally only run with one headphone in, so I think I only have one in, so being able to hear is totally fine, but the only thing that was a little bit tricky with it is it took me out of being present, which is something I've actually always struggled with.
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: Like, being present is really, really hard for me, um, and that took me out even more, and I think that that wasn't right for me in that moment.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: I don't, I don't think it helped me as much as I needed it to, so this is kind of weird.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: I shouldn't say this on the podcast, but it's almost.
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like mechanical doping in a little bit of ways, like for me, like it's easier, like when I'm running uphill without earphones and I obviously can gauge my effort, but I can also hear myself breathing totally and I almost feel like if you can't hear yourself breathing, it's like you can.
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: You can push a little bit harder, you get a little more out of yourself.
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: So that's why I was just curious well, and it depends on what you're listening to, right like that there's certain, there's certain songs or there's certain even like speeches and things that I'll listen to that get me fired up and to be able to have that, that's totally a tool.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: And it's, it's, it's a great one.
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: But, um, yeah, for that race, I think it helped in certain sections of like mitigate, mitigating that anxiety, but it took me out of being present, of what I was doing, cause I remember going down the hill like running, starting the downhill section, I was like, oh shit, yeah, I'm racing.
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: I got to go like just kind of like tuning out a little bit, um, but yeah, I think it can be a useful tool for sure I like that.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: No, thank you for that.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: I was just kind of curious.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: It was something, a little thing I picked up on one of the videos.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: See, I'm a fan.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: I really appreciate it.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: All right, let's get into your mountain biking objectives and some of the things you do with like MTB, like what's your next objective with that and how often are you like, active on that scene?
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: We?
• 52:45
  Speaker 2: did it with the mountain bikes on the Cocopelli Trail, but this year I think we'll do like a handful of bikepacking routes.
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: We did a couple in Salida last year and that was really really fun.
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: Do those ones again.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: I think it was the video you did with Chase in.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: Was it Wyoming or Montana that you did?
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: I watched.
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: It was like a gravel objective he did, or like a long day gravel that he did.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: I watched the.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: It was like a gravel objective he did, or like a long day gravel that he did.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: I think it was something he did.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, it was really cool.
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: He's done some gnarly.
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: I'm like a little baby in this field.
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: He's got.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: You were in the van.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: I think at this one, this one, Okay so actually wait.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: That's a really fun one.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: So that was at Targhee right after the.
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: Targhee race for Cirque series.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: He rode from there to the a basin race.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: So it's like 600 miles, yeah, on the the tour divide route, and so eventually that's what he wants to do.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: So he was like let's just go do this segment for fun.
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: And I was like okay, and so he rode from, yeah, from Targhee to to a basin.
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: But he, he's got some crazy objectives this year that he's going to do on the mountain bike and gravel bikes of like 300 to 600 mile routes what an animal he's gnarly, yeah, yeah, so I'll be.
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'll do the little ones right, like I'll do a couple overnighters on the gravel and, um, I would like to get into to mountain bike racing, but that's kind of a new world, so we'll see, yeah, yeah, it's tricky.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: I I feel the same way, like I mean, granted, like I haven't done any objectives like you guys, but like I don't know.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: I use the gravel bike occasionally as a tool, as just like something like supplement training, but I'd love to like incorporate it to where I could do, you know, these long hundred mile or something like that gravel races, which is kind of fun.
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would love to say like oh, yeah, we have our year planned out, but it's literally like me two days before and being like, hey, let's go to this a hundred mile route tomorrow.
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: And he's like, okay, and so it's super last minute when we do, um, but yeah, so we don't really have anything planned other than a route down in.
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: Salida that we've done in previous years literally the best.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: It's so fun, yeah, yeah yeah, it'd be.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: It's a cool place.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: I I I would consider living there.
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: It's pretty cool oh, yeah, yeah yeah all right.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: So, dude, we're almost an hour already.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: We're chatting we're rolling along great all right, I want to get into some some some serious questions all right, let me.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: Let me straighten up.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: We're getting serious, I gotta.
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: So who inspires you?
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: Serious I gotta.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: So who inspires you?
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that's so hard Cause I have so many.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: Just, I'm very fortunate.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: I have a beautiful, just incredible group of people in my life and there's so many people I can think of One that, for whatever reason immediately is coming to mind, is a really good friend of ours, mike Murphitt.
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: He lives in Longmont, he started a coffee business called Traction and he is just like one of the hardest working people I have ever met and it's so inspiring and I mean shoot, same with chase, same with like the oh my gosh, there's so many people.
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: Um, first of all, I don't want to interrupt you but, like I love that, because that inspires me, because like I can, I can really get behind anybody that's like creator, that's creating their own thing, trying to create value, and this is nothing against corporate America, but they're doing their own thing.
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: They don't have to be captive by that.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: I feel like the more people I see doing that, the more it inspires me to go out and do something like that.
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: It's honestly a hard question for me, because I can find it in anyone that I talk to, like anyone that's willing to have like a vulnerable conversation.
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: I'm like boom, I'm inspired by you because you're able to like talk about this thing.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: Or like, or even you just doing.
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: The thing that scares you I think that's the thing for me is the people that I can have a conversation with where I'm like, holy shit, I can see how scary that is, and they talk about how scary something is, but that they're doing it.
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: That is so inspiring to me and we see that a lot with you know small business owners and like the people that are in our group of of those entrepreneurs and people pursuing their dreams in athletics and uh yeah, it's kind of hard to just name one person.
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: No, I love it.
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: It's a great answer.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: Absolutely Amazing answer how old are you?
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: I'm, I'm 25 okay, so you're young, you're very young, I guess I'm very old, I'm 33, I've been, I've been around.
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: I consider myself an old, wise man at this point.
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: So that's why I was curious, like I just love hearing these stories of people taking these leaps and like just going after what it is that like sets their soul on fire.
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: So it's interesting to me, very cool, that's awesome, all right.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: So next question I know you've you're around the sport now.
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: You've been around the sport for some time.
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: You've raised some of the best athletes on the planet.
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: Who is your sub-ultra goat, male and female?
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: oh, it's a tough one.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: I know that is a tough one, um grayson's a kicker for sure dude, she's, she's pretty serious she's so well and she came from a soccer background too I did not know that yeah, yeah.
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: We went for a run out in flagstaff and talked about soccer the entire time and I was like really know that, yeah, she is, yeah, she's ripping it up right now too, and I I love what she's doing of, you know, transition, not even transitioning, but showing that you can do all these things.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: You don't need to niche down just into trail or just onto, you know, tracker, road, right, that you can be good at all of it and incorporate all of them into your training, and so, yeah, I really admire what she's doing.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: You're the second, so, andy, and the first person Andy named was was Grayson.
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, cause Grayson's really young.
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: She is really young, so like that's amazing that, like she's just kind of getting started.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: She's a two-time world champion and like is already be considered by many like one of the greatest, if not the greatest of all time in the conversation.
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: Dude, that's wild, it's so cool.
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I would say, she's kind of on the dude side.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: What do you?
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: got.
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: I'm embarrassed to say I don't keep up with.
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: That's fine, I don't know, so I'm like that's fine there's no, there's no judgment, no judgment I've met a lot of you know great people that are racing in this scene.
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: I just haven't gotten to know them personally, so it's a little bit tricky for me to say okay, yeah, that's fair um, okay, what's, uh, what's your take on Bigfoot?
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, after living in the truck for a little while and seeing the things we've seen in the woods, I have no doubts he's just like some dude living his best life out in the woods.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: Like I want to be little Bigfoot one day.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: Did you see any grizzly bears when you were out there?
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: We had one walk up by our tent.
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: I don't think it was a grizzly, it was just a bear.
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: But we had one walk up by our tent I don't think it was a grizzly, it was just a bear.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: But like we had one walk up to our truck and like, rub up on it in the middle of the night, we were like what's that?
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: Like what's out there?
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, yeah, that's wild.
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: No grizzlies especially.
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: I was scared of that when we were in alaska, because we didn't.
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: This is so dumb and I don't recommend doing this.
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: We didn't have any bear spray when we were out there because we flew and we didn't like fly I was gonna ask you if you took the van.
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, yeah and we didn't have anything.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: We would go on these runs and like hear things and we're just like, oh god, what is that?
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: yeah, well, I know I remember, like I follow aliaska's instagram account and like they have like a grizzly that like lives there, like a resident grizzly.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that like they have, they've got a name for him and everything, no way.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they're like oh so, and so just woke up at a hibernation, like let's welcome him back, like what the fuck you're like?
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, so I like I don't know.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: That kind of makes the woods a little more wild for me totally yeah, a little different.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: What's your take on bigfoot?
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: man I want to believe.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just hope, you know I I hope he's out there.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm like one of those people that like serendipitously, like I always like, like I'm like.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: Same of those people that like serendipitously, like I always like, like I'm like same thing with, like the aliens and like all these different things.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: I'm like dude, I hope it's out there, why not?
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: It makes everything a little more wild, a little crazy, like you know, I don't know.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: I think I unfortunate thing about Bigfoot is like if he was walking around, like I feel like we would have seen a photo or a video Everybody's got an iPhone.
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: Like we're getting pictures of UFOs and the aliens running around so like, why wouldn't we get pictures of Bigfoot?
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe he's just smarter, I don't know.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: He could be outsmarting us.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: Maybe they buried their dead.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: Maybe they're like super smart and like we all know shit and they're just like they're out Colorado, like the Pacific Northwest, makes sense.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know if you have you ever spent any time in the PNW.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: I have.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: So like dude, like if that area around, like Mount St Helens, is pretty remote.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: I would not be surprised, like yeah it's a funny story.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: It's actually a hilarious story.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: I hope my dad listens to this.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: He?
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: Um, so I oh my God I decided to run trail around mount st helens.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: I did, I was supposed to race.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: It wound up getting covid, didn't wind up doing the race anyway went out there a few more months later and my parents live in florida.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: So I was like yo, let's, let's meet out, let's, you know, meet me out here.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: We can have a nice little weekend together and I just hang out with my parents.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so we drive out there and I'm like all right, I'm gonna do an unsupported run around lewitt trail.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: You guys do some hiking.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: I'll be back in like five or six hours.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: It winds up taking me like nine hours because I get lost.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: Okay, they're like terrified and like panicked.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: My dad like is gonna like he's about to like go to the gas station to see if he can get like service and he gets like lost.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: So then it's like me and my mom I finally turn up.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like six o'clock at night, it's just starting to get dark.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: Okay, it's like my dad.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: We can't find my dad because he like drove off and got lost and and we're like hoping he comes back and, like, finds his way.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: It was a wild day?
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I can imagine, yeah, it was pretty funny.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: But anyway, the whole point of that story is that it's very remote out there.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: There's nothing going on.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sure he's just moseying.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: Picking berries, living his best life so what's your take on the aliens then?
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, we know nothing.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: The more that I learned, the more I realized how dumb I am, of like just everything in a broad sense, do you?
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: think it's like aliens, or do you think it's like I don't know, like interdimensional beings or like what do you think it is.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: And then now, like people are starting to talk about like I don't know I'm not a religious person, I don't want to get like into religion now people are starting to pull in like the religious aspect, like these are angels and demons, like what the interesting is going on?
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: I haven't heard that take on it yet.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: That's like the new rogan thing, like he's had, like like people.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: He's had people on there.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: They're talking about this crazy stuff yeah, I definitely don't think we're the only ones here there's no way.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: There's no way and it's it's so interesting to me too of, like you know, the more we learn, like, like I think of myself personally, myself personally, right, cause that's all I can really speak about is just my own experience of like the more I learn about things, the more I realize, like, how I don't know anything of like there's just so much out there.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: Um, in every sense of the way, I'm thinking about that in a medical way because of the business that we're starting right now, but with aliens, I'm like.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there's no doubt that there is life out there and that there is, like other, existing.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, dude, I honestly, the older I get, the more if I get, if I'm gaining any wisdom.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know what this is.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: This is this older part, but like the older I'm getting, I'm starting to realize, like dude, I don't know.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, first of all, we don't know anything.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: We're just, you know, know, think about it like we're on this rock spinning around, like we're moving to like negative 9.81 meters per second square, what the hell right, yeah and I'm over here worried about like whatever dumb thing and I'm like we're literally on a rock floating in space and that rock crashes into other rocks like what?
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: no dude that's what I'm saying.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: Like.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: And the other thing is like wild is like.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: You know, we get like so stressed out and like worried about like everyday life, like little, and then you think about it.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: You're like dude, I'm on a rock orbiting the sun.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: We could get hit by an asteroid at any moment.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: Why do I?
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: First of all, we barely live 100 years Totally, if we're lucky.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know why we stress we're good, we're so good.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know why people stress about shit.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: I don't either, but but that's like funny.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: You say that that's been like a whole thing of like learning this year, of like, okay, life is good, just chill, have a good time, and that's all you can really do.
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: That's like literally my whole goal going into this year is to just have the best time.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: I think it's a good thing to end on it's a good note.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah On that, let's get your youtube plug the business go wild all the things.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, let's see chasing joe on youtube is where you can find all of our documentaries that we have coming up the circ series that we filmed last year and the circ series that we're going to film again this year.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: So that'll be a fun place to be.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: Um.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: Jordanmilbrath is my personal instagram handle, and then chapter zero, which we didn't really talk about.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 2: That, which is a totally other thing we have all the time.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: We have time we can talk about no, it's just a quick thing.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: Chapter zero is basically this holistic capsule that we're starting of.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 2: You know different healing modalities, because traditional medicine doesn't always work it's got its time and its place, but I think people need access to better tools, and so that's kind of like a holistic space that we're holding for people to find different healing modalities.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: So what do you mean by modalities?
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: Dive into this.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: So we, oh gosh, okay, after I got back from the truck last year I got violently ill of like I've had chronic illnesses and issues that I've been managing for the past however many years, but got really, really sick when we came back from the truck and nothing that I was doing was working and I saw, like every doctor, every specialist, everything that you can imagine under the sun, nothing has worked.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: And it wasn't until I started doing these other healing modalities of like leaning into traditional Chinese medicine especially was where I started seeing these differences and I think if people have access to that knowledge sooner their chronic issues one can either go away sooner or two they can finally find solutions if they've been looking for years the way that I have, and so you know that fulfills, like the little mini doctor in me that wanted to go to med school and wanted to do all of that, and I think, yeah, just having that space for people to come and find the tools that they need.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: I love that, yeah, and I think it's so important.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: I don't think people realize like, yeah, like you just take a pill and it's not going to necessarily fix you.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: It's a.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: It's not a means to an end, that's a means to keep you on the pills, it's just a bandaid, yeah, and I don't want people to have band-aids anymore.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: I don't want band-aids anymore, like I want something that's addressing these root issues, and that's what I found.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: You know, through these holistic healing modalities is I'm like, oh my gosh, like this is working and most of the time that's the crazy thing, right Is, they're free.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: They're easily accessible, or there's practitioners that you can like not an arm and a leg to go see, and so, yeah, just holding that space for of resources is really all it is to different people and to just like different tools.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: I hope that, like that, that takes off.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: I think that's amazing.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: That's an amazing thing.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: That's, that's been the first, not the first, but like that feels so right, like, have you ever had that feeling before of like you, you have have this idea, you have this purpose that you can just feel inside and you're just like, oh my gosh, I need to pursue it, because it's the only thing you can think about every single day do that so that it's wild.
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: You say that that's basically just happened to me in the podcast.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so all right.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: So I don't want to go off on too much of a tangent, but like, do you know who finn melanson is?
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: So he has the single track podcast.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's like one of the biggest.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: It's probably like next to free trail.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: It's the biggest pot.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: Anyway, I don't want to give too much inside baseball, but like I just had a really good conversation with him, like networking and getting like to learn more about this, this podcasting world, and what you can do with this.
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: And you know, and it just made me realize like all right, like at first, when I first started this, it was like all right, like maybe I can leverage this you know, I don't mean this like I think it's one of those things where I was like okay, I can give back.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: It's my way of giving back to this world, but also I can leverage it to.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: You know, maybe get a better contract with La Sportiva or whatever you know it doesn't matter, like there's different ways you can leverage it, but I didn't realize like the power it has.
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 1: And he kind of showed me like, oh, dude, like you're in the right place at the right time, and maybe, uh, and the reason I say that is because, like I, you, know I kind of alluded like you know, I don't know if I really want to do corporate America forever.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm like what?
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: What could I possibly do?
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: Like, what passions do I enjoy?
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: What do I love?
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: Right this is something I do love, so yeah, I don't know, and it could be your out.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: You know of corporate America and it's like.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: If this is what you feel like is giving back to the community.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: Oh my God, I feel like that's what I don't know.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: Not to get all philosophical, but like people right, it's so fulfilling to be able to have an outlet where you are giving in some way.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: The thing for me, I think, too, is like so I'm not a first ballot Hall of Famer runner.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: Right, I might be.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: I probably I'm not even close to a hall of famer runner.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: I'm lucky that I'm just good enough to get a contract.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: But that said, like my way of giving back, like I think that, um, my way of having any type of legacy and being able to help others is through the pod you know, and I think that that's so- contribute to the sport.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 2: Like that's the important thing, right, and this, this for me is that, and I feel so excited and like fired up about it.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, love it.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: Well, on that note, let's close it out.
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we plugged the business.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: We plugged the podcast.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: Did you plug your marketing business?
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: Is it chasing, is it?
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: It is Chasing Joe.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: You can find that just online.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: If you Google Chasing Joe, you'll find us Awesome.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for coming on.
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: This is an amazing conversation.
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: This is so good.
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 2: Thank you, yeah, thank you.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: All right, what'd you guys think?
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: What a fun episode.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: I really want to thank Jordan so personally for coming on.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: Just what a great.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: She brought such great energy to the podcast and just tell such a remarkable and inspiring story.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 1: For those of you that might not love being in corporate America if you are what an inspiration, if you're ever interested in possibly getting out of it, so that kind of yeah might pave the way and kind of hopefully inspire others to go pursue their dreams and goals and passions.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so, without further ado, I'm going to go ahead and give some plugs.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: You can find Jordan on Instagram.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: That's going to be at jordanmelbreath.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: Her YouTube is Chasing Joe.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: Her TikTok is also Jordan Melbreath.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: And if you guys are interested in collaborating or working with Jordan and Chase, you can find them on their website and that's going to be at chasingjoecom.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: It kind of gives a little fun breakdown of some of the interesting work that they've done with a lot of these amazing outdoor brands.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: So big shout out to Jordan and, yeah, I'm just so excited for her future and just where she takes this, like I said, super inspiring.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, guys, I hope you enjoy this Without further ado.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this episode one of the things I would love for you to do is head on over to YouTube or, excuse me, to Spotify or Apple or YouTube, if you want, and go ahead and give us a rating and a review.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: I'd really appreciate that.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's how we can get noticed and get this podcast out to the world.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: So, guys, hope you enjoyed this one Until next week.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: Thanks so much, the Steep Stuff Podcast.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: Thank you.