Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Alex Murdaugh Life Now

Transcript

Alex Murdaugh Life Now · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Alex Murdog. Yes he's been tried.
0:19
Speaker 1: He snodded a lot on the stand. He was convicted.
0:24
Speaker 1: He was given a chance to throw himself at the
0:26
Speaker 1: mercy of the courts and apologize for all the pain
0:29
Speaker 1: he's caused. He didn't have to say I did it.
0:31
Speaker 1: I'm sorry I killed him. He could have just said
0:33
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I've caused so much pain. What did he do?
0:38
Speaker 1: He lied right in the judge's face again and went,
0:41
Speaker 1: I mean, I said, that's pretty much all I have
0:43
Speaker 1: to say. That said, what's happening in the world of
0:47
Speaker 1: Alex Murdog right now. I took a stroll the night
0:53
Speaker 1: of the sentencing and wait, no, it's a knight of
0:57
Speaker 1: the verdict, and went down to the county jail. It
1:05
Speaker 1: was I don't know, maybe half a mile as the
1:07
Speaker 1: crow flies at most from the courthouse where we all were.
1:14
Speaker 1: I couldn't wait to get out of that parking lot.
1:16
Speaker 1: There was a razor wire curled around the hall, around
1:20
Speaker 1: the top of it, around the top of the inside.
1:22
Speaker 1: There were huge shame ling fantas, as there should be,
1:27
Speaker 1: but just imagining him and there where he is supposed
1:30
Speaker 1: to be. I wonder where he is now. You know,
1:33
Speaker 1: I have these visions dancing through my head of a
1:38
Speaker 1: your and Vander salute in his Peruthian jail, who has
1:41
Speaker 1: gotten married and gotten a woman. His wife now pregnant
1:45
Speaker 1: with at least one child. They get drugs, alcohol, whatever
1:51
Speaker 1: they want there What is his life going to be like?
1:55
Speaker 1: But don't worry. Hartpootlan aka poo his defense attorney, and
2:01
Speaker 1: the entire team is working right now to guess what
2:06
Speaker 1: get Murdoch out from behind bars? I mean, you see, Grace,
2:10
Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. Thanks for being with us, with
2:13
Speaker 1: me a high profile lawyer, very familiar with the case
2:18
Speaker 1: practice this mostly out of Charleston, South Carolina. Mark Pepper
2:23
Speaker 1: is joining us from the Pepper Law Firm and you
2:26
Speaker 1: can find him at Pepper Law Firm dot com also
2:29
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Pepper Law Firm. Mark, thanks for being
2:33
Speaker 1: with us. Always a pleasure. Appreciate you having me. You
2:35
Speaker 1: know what you said that so easily just tripped off
2:39
Speaker 1: your tongue when you know I'm going to disagree with
2:41
Speaker 1: every single thing you say, but that's said. I can't
2:45
Speaker 1: claim you're not a good lawyer, because you are. You
2:48
Speaker 1: just see, we prosecutors don't want to see coming up
2:50
Speaker 1: the hallway of the courthouse. I like to see the hacks,
2:53
Speaker 1: you know that just want to get a cheap plea
2:55
Speaker 1: and run away. No, no, no, that doesn't happen with
2:58
Speaker 1: Mark pepper Um. And you know what, that's what we do.
3:02
Speaker 1: That's what we do. We make each other work hard,
3:04
Speaker 1: and that makes the system. Isn't that the truth? Isn't
3:07
Speaker 1: that the truth? You know, Mark, I've been thinking a
3:10
Speaker 1: lot about about this case, and before I get into
3:13
Speaker 1: where is Alex Martin like at this precise moment, and
3:16
Speaker 1: what is happening to him and where is he headed
3:19
Speaker 1: and what's going to happen with his appeal? You know,
3:22
Speaker 1: I'm still amazed. I guess I shouldn't be, because you know,
3:28
Speaker 1: it's very rare that a leopard changes its spots. But
3:34
Speaker 1: there was a chance for him at sentencing. The judge really,
3:38
Speaker 1: you know, he led the horse to water. He really
3:41
Speaker 1: paved the way for him to say, you know what,
3:45
Speaker 1: it was the drugs that was the monster. It's not
3:48
Speaker 1: who I really am. And without admitting guilt, he could
3:52
Speaker 1: have apologized for causing so much pain in the lives
3:55
Speaker 1: of so many, but instead of course, he thought of
3:57
Speaker 1: nobody but himself and another thing, meaning well. One reporter
4:02
Speaker 1: said that they observed him turn around and say, I
4:05
Speaker 1: love you to bust the son, that Marlock's son. But
4:09
Speaker 1: I was watching Marlock. I didn't seem turn around and
4:11
Speaker 1: say anything. He stood up and walked out, unless he
4:13
Speaker 1: said it before the sentence came down. But that was
4:16
Speaker 1: his chance. It was a chance. But you know what,
4:19
Speaker 1: he had a lot of chances to tell the truth
4:22
Speaker 1: or at least do something different, and despite what was
4:28
Speaker 1: probably some good advice, he refused to address the judge
4:33
Speaker 1: with anything more than proclaiming his innocence. But I mean, Nancy,
4:37
Speaker 1: does that really surprise you? It certainly didn't surprise me,
4:41
Speaker 1: because what's the alternative? I mean, if he you know,
4:46
Speaker 1: was there any chance in your mind, the Judge Newman,
4:49
Speaker 1: who had just lost his own son two weeks before
4:52
Speaker 1: this trial started, was there any chance, regardless of how
4:56
Speaker 1: many family members he paraded in there, whether he put
4:59
Speaker 1: on on the best mitigation package in the history of
5:02
Speaker 1: the world, was there any chance in your mind? Do
5:05
Speaker 1: you think Judge Newman was going to give him anything
5:07
Speaker 1: but two consecutive life sentences? No, No, I don't think
5:12
Speaker 1: so either. But hey, if there was any chance at all,
5:16
Speaker 1: that was his chance to go for it, his opportunity
5:19
Speaker 1: to beg to plead for mercy, to at least, you know,
5:23
Speaker 1: out of just human decency, forget about the sentence and
5:25
Speaker 1: say I'm sorry for all the pain that I have caused,
5:28
Speaker 1: even this trial. I'm sorry to my son and my family.
5:32
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to my father and my grandfather. Their memories
5:36
Speaker 1: have now been stained because of me dragging everybody in
5:40
Speaker 1: here to this trial. I still he co said all
5:42
Speaker 1: that without admitting guilt. Hey tell me about Judge Newman's son.
5:47
Speaker 1: Thirty nine years old or mid thirties at least local
5:52
Speaker 1: lawyer was serving on city council. I mean, you know,
5:56
Speaker 1: just the most genuine guy you can meet, and just
6:00
Speaker 1: a tragic medical ended up being a heart attack. I mean,
6:04
Speaker 1: just out of nowhere. Nobody expected it. It wasn't a
6:09
Speaker 1: known condition to many, and just out of blue. He
6:13
Speaker 1: dies two weeks before this case, and having appeared in
6:16
Speaker 1: front of Newman for twenty years, you know, there was
6:19
Speaker 1: a lot of concern that maybe the case would get delayed.
6:23
Speaker 1: But just like he's always done, he had a job
6:28
Speaker 1: to do. And he was going to try this case. Now,
6:30
Speaker 1: I could tell, and I think some other local attorneys
6:33
Speaker 1: could tell that towards the star of jury selection the
6:37
Speaker 1: first week, his mind was a little elsewhere, rightfully. So
6:41
Speaker 1: he had literally just buried his own son two weeks
6:43
Speaker 1: early and he's now running the courthouse with a soon
6:49
Speaker 1: to be convicted murderer of his own son. So you
6:53
Speaker 1: could tell that there was some hesitation to and desire
6:59
Speaker 1: to be there now that being said the consummate professional
7:02
Speaker 1: he always is. As soon as that trials started, he
7:05
Speaker 1: was Judge Newman and he was simply Judge Newman. And
7:09
Speaker 1: then we got to see kind of a personal side
7:11
Speaker 1: of him during sentencing, where he looked Alec in the
7:16
Speaker 1: eye and almost dared him to address the court and
7:20
Speaker 1: even called him out. Nancy. Remember when he said, you know, Alec,
7:23
Speaker 1: what was that quote you said on the stand. He
7:26
Speaker 1: made him repeat it, right, I mean, goading him into
7:30
Speaker 1: give me something here because I just lost the son.
7:34
Speaker 1: And if you recall, which I thought was a very
7:36
Speaker 1: very poignant moment during sentencing, you know, he gave him
7:42
Speaker 1: a life sentence with regards to Maggie, and then he
7:45
Speaker 1: turned to him and said, and with regards to your son,
7:48
Speaker 1: almost tongue in cheek, who I know you loved very much.
7:54
Speaker 1: I also sentenced you to life in prison consecutively. And
7:59
Speaker 1: to me, that was his way of saying, how dare
8:02
Speaker 1: you come in my courtroom and lie to me? How
8:06
Speaker 1: dare you file a notice of alibi with this court
8:12
Speaker 1: yet take the stand and admit for the first time
8:15
Speaker 1: that you were there. That was his way of saying,
8:18
Speaker 1: how dare you come into my court when I've just
8:21
Speaker 1: gone through the tragedy I've gone through, and sit here
8:25
Speaker 1: and lie to me in this jury? He said all
8:29
Speaker 1: that without saying any of it, which is who Judge
8:32
Speaker 1: Newman is very very poignant moment towards the end of
8:34
Speaker 1: that trial time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys with me
8:55
Speaker 1: is Mark Pepper. He's a high profile lawyer based in Charleston,
9:00
Speaker 1: as practices all over. Everybody has a favorite judge, and
9:05
Speaker 1: I'm not asking you to name yours because you're still
9:07
Speaker 1: practicing in front of courts, but one of my favorites
9:10
Speaker 1: was Luther Alverson. Judge Alverson, I practiced in his courtroom
9:15
Speaker 1: for years, and really all the courtrooms, but his courtroom
9:18
Speaker 1: the most and he was the oldest judge in the courthouse,
9:23
Speaker 1: in the Fulton County Courthouse, which is inter city Atlanta,
9:26
Speaker 1: and he was eighty four I think before when he
9:31
Speaker 1: finally retired. But he would get up every morning and
9:34
Speaker 1: run two miles before he came to court. Now listen
9:37
Speaker 1: to this. His theory was he wanted to prove to
9:41
Speaker 1: all the other judges that he was fit to be
9:43
Speaker 1: on the bench because he was so old. He escaped
9:46
Speaker 1: mandatory retirement of the judges at a certain age, you know,
9:51
Speaker 1: so he was grandfather on to the bench. But my
9:53
Speaker 1: point is, you know what a jail count is right
9:57
Speaker 1: for each courtroom? How many people on your docket are
10:01
Speaker 1: waiting for trial or a plea and they're sitting in jail.
10:04
Speaker 1: And you know, Georgia has been under a federal court
10:07
Speaker 1: order forever to keep the jail count down to avoid overcrowding.
10:12
Speaker 1: So we were under pressure to try cases left and right,
10:17
Speaker 1: not plead them out cheap, but try those cases of
10:20
Speaker 1: everybody's sitting in the jail. And every week I would
10:24
Speaker 1: wait for the jail count to come out to make
10:26
Speaker 1: sure our courtroom had the lowest jail count. So I
10:29
Speaker 1: was for all those years in Alverson's court, on trial
10:32
Speaker 1: every other week, mark, if you can imagine that. But
10:37
Speaker 1: that said, that was my favorite judge. And Newman reminds
10:40
Speaker 1: me so much of Alverson. Yeah, he does, and it
10:42
Speaker 1: sounds like Judge Alverson was one of a kind and
10:45
Speaker 1: I wish we had judges like him. But it's commendable
10:48
Speaker 1: to you too, Nancy, as a prosecutor, You've got to
10:50
Speaker 1: move that docket because you're so right. There are thousands
10:55
Speaker 1: and thousands of inmates, all of whom are innocent as
10:59
Speaker 1: they sit there in that jail cell right, and sure
11:01
Speaker 1: they get their day in court. And kudos to you
11:04
Speaker 1: from moving that docket. That that is a problem we
11:06
Speaker 1: have in this country. I didn't really look at as
11:09
Speaker 1: moving the docket because I've wanted everybody to get a
11:13
Speaker 1: fair trial right and get their day in court and
11:16
Speaker 1: get a fair plea right. I didn't want anything shoddy
11:20
Speaker 1: done that would come back on me later. And I
11:23
Speaker 1: wanted the right person to go to jail. I don't
11:27
Speaker 1: want to put anybody in jail. I wanted the right
11:30
Speaker 1: person behind the bars, which leads me to Alex Smurdox.
11:34
Speaker 1: So right now, I guess he's still at Kirkland. That's right,
11:38
Speaker 1: that's right, that's our that's kind of our holding facility
11:40
Speaker 1: for all new SEDC inmates. Everybody that sentenced in the
11:45
Speaker 1: state gets shipped up to Columbia, South Carolina's at Kirkland.
11:48
Speaker 1: I love the name of it, Kirkland CI Correctional Institution.
11:52
Speaker 1: Reception and evaluation. Reception. That sounds to me like you're
11:56
Speaker 1: going to be met with cookies and kool aid, like
11:59
Speaker 1: at Liberty Methodist Church where I grew up. No, it's
12:02
Speaker 1: not exactly that kind of reception. And Georgia they caught
12:07
Speaker 1: they would call it Jackson Jackson diagnostic. It's like you're
12:12
Speaker 1: going to get diagnosed. Well, this is reception and evaluation. Basically,
12:17
Speaker 1: it covers all felonies, and everybody goes there from the
12:22
Speaker 1: state almost I think, and then they get farmed out,
12:25
Speaker 1: they get sent to where they're going to be. What
12:29
Speaker 1: is involved in the evaluation a couple of things. The diagnostics,
12:34
Speaker 1: if you will. The reception, if you will, really consist
12:38
Speaker 1: of a clean haircut. And I don't know if you've
12:40
Speaker 1: seen the most recent mud shot saw it. It's amazing.
12:44
Speaker 1: So that's how he was received with a quick shave
12:47
Speaker 1: of the head. Didn't he have a head shaving after
12:52
Speaker 1: his traumatic head injury, which he claimed brought about brain andngurine.
12:57
Speaker 1: He came into court with a band aid on, right, right,
12:59
Speaker 1: So I'm without there before. Well, he'll be there for
13:02
Speaker 1: another two three weeks, Nancy. That's where everybody goes when
13:05
Speaker 1: they're convicted of a felony and they're looking at significant
13:08
Speaker 1: prison time and from there the evaluation, the answer question
13:12
Speaker 1: consists of really just a few minor things. What are
13:15
Speaker 1: you there for? What is your classification? Now? Of course,
13:18
Speaker 1: he has been convicted of the most heinous crime you
13:21
Speaker 1: can commit in South Carolina, two terms of life imprisonment
13:28
Speaker 1: falling convictions of murdering his wife and sons. So he
13:32
Speaker 1: is going to be classified as a most violent felon.
13:37
Speaker 1: He will be put in the system as a most
13:40
Speaker 1: violent offender, and therefore he will eventually be housed at
13:45
Speaker 1: our maximum security prisons, one of our maximum prisons. Yeah,
13:50
Speaker 1: my guess is because the second element is closest to home,
13:55
Speaker 1: that is going to be liber Correctional Facility LIEBE or
14:00
Speaker 1: that's in Ridgeviille, South Carolina. That's gonna be the closest
14:03
Speaker 1: where they house the death row inmates they used to
14:07
Speaker 1: they're now being housed in the Upstate. There was some
14:10
Speaker 1: SCD you went through some things recently where they transferred them,
14:13
Speaker 1: and so that's kind of a work in progress. But yes,
14:16
Speaker 1: Lieber does house death row in meats curling, that's correct.
14:22
Speaker 1: And I mean when I say maximum, we're talking. You
14:26
Speaker 1: get one hour of outdoor wreck time per day. That's it.
14:33
Speaker 1: You get a shower every other day, Isn't it true?
14:35
Speaker 1: They have carpentry and woodworking classes. I'm sure they do.
14:39
Speaker 1: I'm sure they do, and that concerns me. Why is
14:41
Speaker 1: he getting to take a class. But also they have
14:45
Speaker 1: operation behind bars where inmates get to talk to at
14:49
Speaker 1: risk use and adults. Well, you know, keep it behind Nancy,
14:52
Speaker 1: And I don't know how this gentleman, if you want
14:56
Speaker 1: to use that word, could possibly be rehabilitated. But one
15:00
Speaker 1: of the factors that goes into consideration when serving a
15:03
Speaker 1: sentence is to try to rehabilitate the inmate, and so
15:07
Speaker 1: he'll have some options to perform some jobs and work duties.
15:12
Speaker 1: You know, do I want my son getting a life
15:16
Speaker 1: advice from Alick Murdock? Of course not. But at the
15:18
Speaker 1: same time, somebody's son is going to Well, so if
15:21
Speaker 1: we allow that, then we're setting it up to be
15:23
Speaker 1: our child. Okay, for some other kid to do it
15:27
Speaker 1: in not hours. You know, I don't think so he
15:29
Speaker 1: didn't sit, Nancy. I mean you heard him. You heard him? Yeah,
15:33
Speaker 1: I forgot. I forgot. He didn't do it right, Okay,
15:35
Speaker 1: let me ask you this, believe it or not. Well,
15:39
Speaker 1: of course we knew this was going to happen. People
15:42
Speaker 1: are whining and complaining that Murdock did not get true justice.
15:46
Speaker 1: I think he got a huge bonus. He had like
15:49
Speaker 1: a gift just fall on his head when they didn't
15:52
Speaker 1: seek the death penalty. I'll never understand that. Two dead
15:56
Speaker 1: bodies and he's at the suit of the crime. Hello.
15:59
Speaker 1: But that said, it's it's needle and se right. Yeah,
16:02
Speaker 1: but there's a lot of politics involved in that decision,
16:05
Speaker 1: which we don't have to get into today. But I
16:07
Speaker 1: don't know what did you say that? If you don't,
16:08
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you about it. Well, what do
16:10
Speaker 1: you mean you didn't they see the DP that's a
16:13
Speaker 1: real hot topic in South Carolina right now, and just
16:17
Speaker 1: throw something out there for me. So we're really struggling
16:20
Speaker 1: with whether or not to put it on the ballot,
16:24
Speaker 1: make it a referendum. Uh oh, wait, are you guys
16:27
Speaker 1: going to get rid of the DPA. I'm just telling you.
16:30
Speaker 1: I'm telling you you in California there is a push
16:33
Speaker 1: for that. We're having trouble finding the drugs or it's
16:36
Speaker 1: always push that. You know, the memo is real now, okay,
16:40
Speaker 1: I mean cruel and unusual punishment. You put some money
16:43
Speaker 1: in front of a firing spot, you and I'll tell
16:46
Speaker 1: you what cruel is getting shot down dead in a dog?
16:48
Speaker 1: Can I hear you? How do you see your son executed?
16:50
Speaker 1: I hear you. I hear you. There was some a
16:52
Speaker 1: lot of politics that went in that decision. For whatever reason,
16:55
Speaker 1: it wasn't made so to your point, he did get
16:57
Speaker 1: your brain. Sure did you get justice? Yeah? Because the
17:00
Speaker 1: justice system work. But Nancy, I will tell you this. Now,
17:02
Speaker 1: everybody's whining that the jury didn't deliberate long enough. Listen,
17:06
Speaker 1: you know, I think people are used to TV trials
17:10
Speaker 1: with their days and days and deliberations. That's typically not
17:13
Speaker 1: the case. Those are the anomalies. You're right, However, with
17:18
Speaker 1: six weeks of evidence, with over five hundred exhibits, all
17:24
Speaker 1: of which the jury would have had access to with
17:27
Speaker 1: fifty some odd witnesses, called you don't think it's a
17:31
Speaker 1: little quick to deliberate. For by the way, what I
17:35
Speaker 1: heard was forty five minutes. Is what I'm hearing was
17:37
Speaker 1: forty five minutes. That's right. Two gerards have said forty
17:40
Speaker 1: five minutes. No, in fact, this has been six weeks.
17:43
Speaker 1: They've been hearing damning evidence for six weeks. And then
17:47
Speaker 1: the defense puts up an expert who's not really an
17:50
Speaker 1: expert in ballistics. He's a great engineer, but not a
17:53
Speaker 1: ballistics expert. And then they put Murdoch on the stand.
17:57
Speaker 1: That just seal the deal right there. Well, that's what
17:59
Speaker 1: turned it in to a one witness case. That that's
18:01
Speaker 1: what took it from two hours to forty five minutes. Hey,
18:03
Speaker 1: you know what, Pepper, with your next murder defendant that
18:07
Speaker 1: you somehow lose control of and he gets up on
18:12
Speaker 1: the stand, because of course it will be a man,
18:14
Speaker 1: but that said, can you please try to teach him
18:18
Speaker 1: how to pinch himself and start crying. Not just the
18:20
Speaker 1: snott has to come the tears. I will, you have
18:25
Speaker 1: my word, I will work on that with my next client.
18:27
Speaker 1: But if I have a next client that takes a stand,
18:29
Speaker 1: and maybe my last, because if my client is not
18:32
Speaker 1: listening to my advice, then what good am I. You've
18:37
Speaker 1: got to protect your client from himself. And I have
18:39
Speaker 1: no doubt that Dick and Jim had that conversation. But
18:42
Speaker 1: when it came down to it, I sure as heck
18:44
Speaker 1: would have protected the record a little bit and put
18:46
Speaker 1: on the record that I've advised my client not to
18:49
Speaker 1: take the stand, your honor, and I want that to
18:51
Speaker 1: be on the record. I didn't hear it. It almost
18:53
Speaker 1: as though they deferred to the client. I didn't hear
18:55
Speaker 1: it either. That bothers me and I was watching at
18:58
Speaker 1: that time, and the only thing that and as Marlock
19:00
Speaker 1: went on a bathroom break, it's the only thing that
19:03
Speaker 1: happened right which told us he's getting ready to take
19:05
Speaker 1: the stand exactly. You know, I'd talked to a journ Nancy,
19:08
Speaker 1: and at the end of the day, for all your
19:11
Speaker 1: viewers that claim he didn't get justice or these people
19:14
Speaker 1: that are wanting, you know, at the end of the day,
19:18
Speaker 1: when he took the stand and put himself there at
19:22
Speaker 1: the kennels, it was over. It was over, Okay, what
19:27
Speaker 1: they literally I literally think that those two jurors that
19:31
Speaker 1: were not guilty in the one that was kind of indecisive,
19:34
Speaker 1: had he not taken the stand and put himself there,
19:37
Speaker 1: I think there would have been enough reasonable doubt as
19:39
Speaker 1: to whether or not he was at the scene to
19:42
Speaker 1: at least cause them to have date. And all it
19:44
Speaker 1: takes is one juror to hold out. But once he
19:47
Speaker 1: took that stand and put himself there, That's what I
19:49
Speaker 1: always say. The state's got to have twelve that's right.
19:52
Speaker 1: Defense only has to have one that's right, Just one
19:55
Speaker 1: that's right. Time stories with Nancy Grace, you know what,
20:17
Speaker 1: I think You're right, Pepper, you really do. If you
20:20
Speaker 1: turn it into one Wooden, I think that they could
20:22
Speaker 1: have been argued he wasn't there and that wasn't his voice.
20:26
Speaker 1: He kept saying it wasn't his voice. And you know
20:28
Speaker 1: Hart Potley and for all the Hubli gave him from
20:31
Speaker 1: day one till the end, he has a way with people.
20:36
Speaker 1: And I think I told you this year reminds me
20:38
Speaker 1: my co anchor, Johnny Cochrane, God rest his soul. He
20:41
Speaker 1: could walk into our program, as he often did, completely unprepared,
20:46
Speaker 1: and I had all these copious notes and stacks of
20:49
Speaker 1: notes with scribbling all over it. And he was so charming,
20:53
Speaker 1: and he knew the law very well, which you really
20:56
Speaker 1: have to know to try cases. But you know, he
21:00
Speaker 1: could talk his way around a blizzard. And I get
21:03
Speaker 1: the same idea from all the lawyers I talked to
21:05
Speaker 1: about Hart Putlin, and he's just one of those people
21:09
Speaker 1: when he wants in the room, everybody goes to him
21:11
Speaker 1: and wants to talk to him, wants to hear his
21:12
Speaker 1: stories and all of his yarns he spends. And I
21:17
Speaker 1: tell you, if he had been allowed to give and
21:20
Speaker 1: of course Griffin did a great job, but if he
21:22
Speaker 1: had been allowed to give the heartstring part of the
21:27
Speaker 1: closing argument and his you know, conversational charming way, he
21:33
Speaker 1: may and Merlock had not taken a stand, I agree
21:37
Speaker 1: he may have gotten one jar to have a doubt
21:40
Speaker 1: whether he was at the scene, because you know how
21:42
Speaker 1: he kept hitting. How could he kill bags and Paul Paul.
21:47
Speaker 1: To find him guilty, to quote mister Putlin here, you
21:52
Speaker 1: would have to find him to be a complete maniac
21:56
Speaker 1: that within ten minutes he executed his done, executed his wife,
22:02
Speaker 1: and then went on about his business that was gaining
22:04
Speaker 1: traction that was gaining traction. And I totally agree if
22:08
Speaker 1: Murdoch doesn't take the stand, and you know, you know,
22:12
Speaker 1: ego is a four letter word, right, I mean, he
22:14
Speaker 1: just you can't compete with ego. And he was always
22:17
Speaker 1: going to take the stand. There was nothing Jim and
22:19
Speaker 1: Dick could have done about it. And sure enough he
22:22
Speaker 1: took the stand and it was his downfall. But if
22:24
Speaker 1: he wouldn't have, I totally agree. And remember Dick asked
22:28
Speaker 1: the judge, Judge Newman, would you consider allowing us to
22:33
Speaker 1: break up the closing argument? You know, the worst you
22:36
Speaker 1: can say is no, so you always ask for it.
22:38
Speaker 1: Of course, Newman says, I'm not familiar with that rule
22:41
Speaker 1: because it doesn't exist. So no, you know, y'all need
22:44
Speaker 1: to pick one. And at the end of the day,
22:46
Speaker 1: you know, and Jim did as bestie good. I thought
22:48
Speaker 1: Jim highlighted. But I agree if he doesn't take the stand.
22:52
Speaker 1: If Murdoch doesn't take the stand, you know, he he
22:56
Speaker 1: just doesn't have the ability to look a juror in
22:59
Speaker 1: the I like mister Harputleian does to your point, So
23:03
Speaker 1: what's it like where he is right now in Kirkland,
23:06
Speaker 1: CI awful, awful, absolutely awful, with the worst of the worst,
23:11
Speaker 1: with everybody that's been convicted within ten to fourteen days
23:16
Speaker 1: prior to him and ten to fourteen days after him, Well, good,
23:18
Speaker 1: then he fits right in. If you're trying to make
23:20
Speaker 1: me feel sorry for him, that's not working. Well, yeah,
23:23
Speaker 1: anyone suffer. But I want him in jail, never to
23:27
Speaker 1: get back out. I don't think you have to worry
23:29
Speaker 1: about that, Nancy, I really don't. I think this appeal
23:32
Speaker 1: would have had some legs had he not testified. And
23:36
Speaker 1: this is an interesting point that I think your viewers
23:38
Speaker 1: really need to understand. I think they had pretty good
23:42
Speaker 1: grounds to keep all that financial stuff out under four
23:46
Speaker 1: or four B. I just don't see it. If you're
23:49
Speaker 1: going to take care of it as motive, fine, maybe
23:51
Speaker 1: it meets that requirement, But when you start crossing the
23:54
Speaker 1: line into him just being a bad person, that is
23:58
Speaker 1: an error of law. Now, the question he comes would
24:01
Speaker 1: it have made a difference, In other words, would the
24:03
Speaker 1: outcome have been different? As soon as he takes the stand,
24:07
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter, does it. That's going to be their
24:10
Speaker 1: biggest problem on appealing now. I think that's like the
24:13
Speaker 1: litmus test what's he telling him? That's it? Yep, I
24:16
Speaker 1: completely agree. I think had he remained silent used this
24:22
Speaker 1: Fifth Amendment right, especially if you would have gotten that
24:25
Speaker 1: quick of a verdict, then the argument would be if
24:28
Speaker 1: it was an error of law, then it had to
24:31
Speaker 1: have made a difference in the case. Because they only
24:35
Speaker 1: deliberated for two hours really forty five minutes if you
24:38
Speaker 1: want to be specific. And of the six weeks in testimony,
24:42
Speaker 1: well five of the weeks was about the financial stuff.
24:45
Speaker 1: So had he not taken the stand, I think they're
24:48
Speaker 1: on pretty good legal legal ground for an appeal, But
24:51
Speaker 1: it ain't gonna matter because our Quarter of Appeals is
24:54
Speaker 1: going to pull up all these cases and under staff
24:57
Speaker 1: the other day. First of all, when you're talking about
25:00
Speaker 1: four or four B, only six percent of appeals in
25:03
Speaker 1: our country are overturned. Of those six percent, hey, you're talking.
25:08
Speaker 1: While you're talking, how much I hate that four B
25:13
Speaker 1: prior bad acts right by rule in South Carolina and
25:16
Speaker 1: in most states, you can't introduce evidence of, for instance,
25:21
Speaker 1: in this case, all the financial crimes, all the lies
25:24
Speaker 1: that he told to Chris Wilson, to his law partners. Uh,
25:30
Speaker 1: you can't. That doesn't come into evidence unless unless the
25:35
Speaker 1: defendant brings it in himself, which that didn't he did, right, Well,
25:41
Speaker 1: it happened during the defensive chief in case you're you're right.
25:44
Speaker 1: But but prior to that they were using it as motives. Okay,
25:47
Speaker 1: technically that doesn't come in, which could be reversible error.
25:50
Speaker 1: But once the defendant takes the stand, it would have
25:56
Speaker 1: come in through the defendant. Right. So that's where everybody
26:01
Speaker 1: that thinks, oh, it's coming back on appeal, the judge
26:04
Speaker 1: made an error and it would have made a difference.
26:07
Speaker 1: That that's where I disagree, and that once he takes
26:10
Speaker 1: the stand. Of those cases that get overturned, only one
26:15
Speaker 1: percent get overturned when the defendant takes a stand, So
26:17
Speaker 1: you've got one percent. Jam Let me ask you this.
26:19
Speaker 1: You say he took the stand and the four oh,
26:23
Speaker 1: let me just say that four. I want to refer
26:26
Speaker 1: to it as prior bad act evidence for people that haven't.
26:29
Speaker 1: Why do you say necessarily would have come in once
26:33
Speaker 1: he takes a stand. Well, if you remember his direct examination,
26:37
Speaker 1: his direct examination opened the door to all of the
26:42
Speaker 1: financial crimes. In other words, mister Griffin started it with
26:47
Speaker 1: you're a liar, aren't you? Yes, I did lie. Did
26:51
Speaker 1: you lie to Sled? Yes? Why did you lie to Sled?
26:53
Speaker 1: And then he came up with some bs answer about
26:56
Speaker 1: being paranoid or whatever. Right he had the boat issue,
27:00
Speaker 1: he had the boating. He had the boat issue right,
27:02
Speaker 1: and it's nine one one called right. So they would
27:06
Speaker 1: have addressed that through directed examination, which means on cross
27:11
Speaker 1: it all would have come in. Speaking of the boat issue,
27:15
Speaker 1: sounds like Murdos got a trial date set for the
27:19
Speaker 1: death of the teen girl Mallory Beach killed in the
27:22
Speaker 1: boating accident that happened in twenty nineteen, is set to
27:26
Speaker 1: go forward August fourteen, Right, But at this point who cares?
27:31
Speaker 1: Not that I don't care about Malory Beach, but I
27:32
Speaker 1: mean on Alex Murdoch's team, they're like, hey, I'm behind
27:36
Speaker 1: VARs for two life sentences. I don't care about the
27:38
Speaker 1: Malory Beach wrongful death, but it does matter because I
27:43
Speaker 1: believe that the appellate judges, while they're not supposed to
27:47
Speaker 1: look at that, they are going to look at all
27:49
Speaker 1: the evidence that comes out in that case. I mean,
27:51
Speaker 1: Murdoch's team may go who cares, but I would be
27:55
Speaker 1: concerned about the appellate court hearing about it. And not
27:58
Speaker 1: only that, what about any money left for Buster Murdog.
28:02
Speaker 1: I don't think there is any. I mean, you know
28:04
Speaker 1: he's got he had some. I guess there was five
28:09
Speaker 1: under grand on his mom's side, Yeah, and the receivership.
28:11
Speaker 1: But I mean that there's so much litigation going on,
28:15
Speaker 1: Nancy with regards to those estates and finances, law and
28:17
Speaker 1: the lawyer. The lawyers are getting paid. But as much
28:20
Speaker 1: as I hate to say this for the Beach family,
28:22
Speaker 1: because Lord knows they deserve all the money in the
28:24
Speaker 1: world they can get, I don't know there's going to
28:25
Speaker 1: be enough to go around or nowhere near enough ever
28:31
Speaker 1: is there to provide justice in the wrongal death case.
28:33
Speaker 1: But you know, all this money is just being tied
28:35
Speaker 1: up with receivers and the state attorneys. Buster may be
28:40
Speaker 1: entitled to a little bit, but at the end of
28:42
Speaker 1: the day, he's worthless in more ways than one. But
28:45
Speaker 1: he's certainly worthless financially. You know, even though the Murdog
28:50
Speaker 1: defense team may be going, who cares about the Malory
28:54
Speaker 1: Beach civil trial. I also think it's incredibly important for
28:59
Speaker 1: the people involved in that case to see it go forward.
29:03
Speaker 1: Age So their voices are heard too agree. It's just,
29:07
Speaker 1: you know, all this time, I think Mallory Beach's family
29:11
Speaker 1: have been on pins and needles waiting for Marlock to
29:14
Speaker 1: be convicted. And I can't imagine how that feels because
29:17
Speaker 1: now that's over. Now they really have to confront the
29:21
Speaker 1: fact that she's gone. The court battles are nearing an end,
29:25
Speaker 1: and now they're left without life, without their daughter. I
29:28
Speaker 1: hadn't even say that because I immediately think of my
29:30
Speaker 1: daughter and my son, and I mean, that's you know,
29:34
Speaker 1: my reason for living is them. I could agree more
29:39
Speaker 1: to help them, could not agree more, and they don't
29:42
Speaker 1: have that. No, it's going to be another long year
29:47
Speaker 1: for the Beach family. I think these financial crimes will
29:52
Speaker 1: come for trial soon as well. Now having the world,
29:55
Speaker 1: I mean, he's already played guilty to them essentially by
29:58
Speaker 1: taking the stand. You know, if he was a man
30:02
Speaker 1: just to own up to everything at this point, which
30:04
Speaker 1: he's not. Well, that's so that's what was full thinking.
30:08
Speaker 1: That's not going to happen. You know, I'm just anxious
30:11
Speaker 1: to see what's going to happen on appeal. I'm sure
30:15
Speaker 1: that his new appellate team whenever they come in, is
30:19
Speaker 1: going to claim ineffective assistance of counsel. I don't know
30:22
Speaker 1: how they're going to do that, but they are. They're
30:26
Speaker 1: going to argue about venue, They're going to argue about
30:28
Speaker 1: the jury. They're going to argue about the prior bat
30:32
Speaker 1: act of its coming in. They've got a whole plathora
30:35
Speaker 1: of things they're going to argue. Are they going to
30:37
Speaker 1: be successful? You know, the likelihood of somebody getting a
30:41
Speaker 1: reversal and appeal once they take the stand is incredibly low,
30:45
Speaker 1: just statistically. Okay, you heard it from the horse's mouth.
30:51
Speaker 1: You're hearing Mark Pepper, high profile attorney rumored to be
30:56
Speaker 1: a criminal defense attorney, the Pepper Law Law Firm at
31:00
Speaker 1: Pepper Lawfirm dot com. Mark Pepper, thank you for joining
31:04
Speaker 1: us during the trial. And now the Alex and Murdog
31:08
Speaker 1: story goes on. Goodbye friend,