Latest / The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show / Episode 5, Season 2: Stripped: A Family Court Crisis With special guest Meg Miller from @standwithmeg

Transcript

Episode 5, Season 2: Stripped: A Family Court Crisis With special guest Meg Miller from @standwithmeg · The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Love Dog Podcast. I am your co host,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Reina Butcher here with our host, doctor Sarah Hensley, the owner,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: CEO and founder of the Love Doc relationship coaching services.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Hello.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: Hey, what's up.
• 0:23
  Speaker 4: Well, I'm super excited today because we have a really
• 0:26
  Speaker 4: awesome guest with us.
• 0:27
  Speaker 3: Yes, we do that.
• 0:28
  Speaker 4: I have been following for about six months and I'm
• 0:32
  Speaker 4: so excited for her to tell her story and for
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: her to enlighten us with some of the things that
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: she has been through. We are starting our series on
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: family court and we've dabbled on, i should say, in
• 0:44
  Speaker 4: that topic a few times, but we're really going to
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: hit it hard in this series. But first we need
• 0:50
  Speaker 4: to thank our affiliate.
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  Speaker 5: Sitting on my dining room table waiting to be opened.
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  Speaker 1: Just a little tidbit or like tip So we partied
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  Speaker 5: So thank you Armor.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Yes, so today with our Family in Court series, Yes,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: we're starting with meg Miller, which stand with Meg right.
• 1:56
  Speaker 5: Is your platform?
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Your platform? You know, I think we just want to
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: start off really just tell us your story, tell us
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: you know how it all began, you know, from the beginning.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: This is your chance to kind of just shine light
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: on what you're going through. Obviously, Sarah and I have
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: had our own experiences in the family court system. Oh shit,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: I'm alread getting emotional hold on I go. I gotta
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: take a breath because it's triggering. I'll be honest, it's
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: very triggering. It might happen fifteen years ago, So I've
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: had some time to get past it and heal from
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: it and forgive those who really hurt me. But I
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: know you're in the throes of it and you've you've
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: been living this, this battle.
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: For a long time, a very long time. So start
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: from the beginning.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, because our listeners, I mean, we know that this
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: is going to be so valuable for our listeners because
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: just based on the video that you posted and the
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: comments that they got, like, there's so many people going
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: through this, and so many people that are fearful of,
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: you know, maybe getting a divorce because they fear the
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: family courts, syst and you know, you've got your own
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: story here. We don't want to scare our listeners, but
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: we want to bring awareness to our listeners of what's happening,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: and we want we want to give people like you,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Meg and like all of us that have been through
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: it a voice.
• 3:16
  Speaker 5: Yes, that's so important.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: And so here's your chance just to tell us, tell us,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: I mean not that you don't have your own platform.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it beautiful platform.
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: It's two pieces of your story because for a long
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: time you were sort of operating under that gag order,
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: like you couldn't share certain things, and now you're at
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: a point where you can be more open. So just
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: give us the raw truth to the degree that you're
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: comfortable with of what you've gone through.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: So I've always wanted to be a mom. I always
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: want to be stayed home mom, and grew up in
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: family of eight siblings, so I've always been around family.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: And I found when I was young twenty three, found
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: a guy that thought was a very good Christian guy.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: You know, we saved ourselves to get married because he
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: wanted to do it right. Because I was a second wife,
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: he had a kid. I saw me a dad. I
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: thought I was doing everything correct or honeymoon. He changed.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: I was pregnant two weeks later. Couldn't leave then anyway,
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: So then I was stuck. So then I tried to leave.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: I tried to escape, and I left when my daughter
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: was three months old. But then my dad said, you
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: honor your commitment and you get back. Okay, he's not
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: really doing what you're saying. And there was a lot
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: of physical, very bad physical anyway, So I said, okay, God,
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: and I'm gonna do it. I'll I have a kid
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: and I'm gonna do it. So our second ones planned
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: and then it just went bad and so anytime I
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: would try to leave, he would, I'd be pregnant, lost everything.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: He made me lose my job, you know, so I
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: was trapped. What do you do when you're trapped? Yeah,
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: And I knew he started making a lot of money
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: at this time, and I knew that if I left
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: he would. He told me, I'm going to make your
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: life a living hell if you leave, and I'll take
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: the kids.
• 4:56
  Speaker 5: My ex said the same thing to me. And this
• 4:57
  Speaker 5: happens all the time.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Right, it does. So I just you know what, I said, God,
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: just have him cheat and leave on me because I
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: couldn't leave. So I thought if he left me for
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: another woman, he would be as nicer.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: That's when you know it's really bad. Yeah, and you're like,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: just cheat on me and then find somebody else and leave.
• 5:14
  Speaker 5: That's literally the same thing that happened to me.
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: I was like, please let me find him cheating, yeah, like,
• 5:18
  Speaker 4: and please just like let him just cheat someone else.
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: Well, and the problem is I couldn't never he was
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: domestic violence to me. I couldn't call the cops. He
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: had butted me to the ground once when I was
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: pregnant with our second I was holding her two year
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: old daughter and the target parking lot, and right away
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: when I fell to the ground, he went to the car,
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: saying I hit him, and he was taking a picture
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: of the newspaper and like he was so trying to
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: be convinced that I did it. I was seven, was pregnant,
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: holding the two year old out I had but a
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: man with big muscles. But I knew then if I
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: reported it, who would they believe? And then it is
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: and then who was they take my kids away? Because
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna beleive him or me? And so it wasn't
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: worth reporting, which is horribly wrong. And this was even
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: ten years ago.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: And it's so hard to when you're in those circumstances
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: and we both can relate here where you are trauma
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: bonded to somebody there, they come back, they hoover you
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: back in. You think they're gonna change. And we've talked
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: about this multiple times with you know, our ex's is
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: that I truly believed every time he would hoover me
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: back in that it would get better. I would tell myself, like,
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: it's gonna get better. Yeah, it's gonna get better. It's
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: gonna get better.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: Especially when we have children.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then all that happened is that got worse,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: and it got worse, and it got worse, and there
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: was more cheating and there was a more emotional abuse.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: Now I never really dealt with physical abuse per.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Se, but definitely emotional abuse.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: And it's you. You you lose all sense of self
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: and so then.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: That's a huge part of it too, because not only
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: do you have these abusers who are doing things like
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: hoovering you in and giving you false hope and giving
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: you toxic hope, but then you lose your identity and
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: who you are all while you're trying to be a
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: mother and trying to save your children and thinking you're
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: doing the right thing, and then you just end up
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: sort of in this weird space where you just feel
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: really lost.
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: And so when your abuser comes and abuses you.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: More, right, it's just this vicious cycle that you can't
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: get out of. So I mean, I just I just
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: want to say that because we totally understand that that sign.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: And some people are very judgmental. I thought you said
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: you you left him, Well, he left me, but I
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: wanted him to leave, all right, But I didn't like
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: how he left, how he left I thought it was
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: you know, I was pregnant with the twins, so I
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: had I was trying to leave after for a second born,
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: and then I was trying to leave before my third
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: and everyone's like, how how do you You don't know
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: how to not get pregnant? I said, you know what
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: a woman, I mean, you can tell your partner not
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: to do something. What am I going to go to
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: an abortion after my husband? You know what I mean? Like?
• 7:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and they can be very manipulative over the birth
• 7:57
  Speaker 5: control process.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: I couldn't care a kill, So I I know how not.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: I haven't gotten pregnant, and you know, right ten years,
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: I know how not to right, But when the person
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: can control the manipulation is a.
• 8:08
  Speaker 5: Huge and sexual abuse, sexual coercion.
• 8:12
  Speaker 4: I mean, essay, you know it's not always your fault
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: or your decision.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: And your own husband can And I didn't realize that percent.
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah. And I just spoke to somebody who I've been
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: Facebook friends with for a long time. We were in
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: a mom's group together, and she revealed to me that like,
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: her husband keeps getting her pregnant and she has no
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: control over it. And she didn't even realize that that
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: was abusive yep. And I like that is abusive, demanding
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: and forcing sex upon you right after when you're in
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: postpartum and you're.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Nursing, or you're pregnant with a ten pound baby, making
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: you down your hands and knees on a wood floor.
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's. It happens, and it happens way too often.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: It does.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: And and and that's one thing I love when you
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: guys were talking about it, because I didn't realize that
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: until I was in therapy and I was saying, he
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: did physical, you know, all of it, and she's like, no,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: please add in the essay. I'm like, really, yeah, Megan,
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: you have. And I'm like what Because they don't, we
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: don't talk about it well.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: And you struggle with this is where I've struggled, you know,
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: with my my own sexual trauma with my ex is.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: I used to look at it like, well, I was
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: a participant, right, I participated, But when I think back
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: to the coertion and the manipulation and you know, the
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: lack of emotional safety, I wasn't even myself, right, I
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: wasn't this person who could really stand up for myself
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: and say no, this doesn't feel good to me right,
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: This doesn't this feels off, this feels really wrong.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: And I think that's one thing. After I got a relationship,
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: I remember telling someone I've never had Can we say this,
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: I never had an orgasm with my husband?
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: You can absolutely say that, okay.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: And I always thought I just I just don't have
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: wondering and of course, and no, I was wrong because I.
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: Trust and is absolutely required for intimacy the response of
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: the body for the female, and we have talked about that.
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: So you know, a few times I think, and it's
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: just this is so much more common than people realize.
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: And you know, essay comes in many forms, many, many,
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: many forms, and you know it's not easy to leave
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: an abusive relationship. They trap you in just about every
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: way that they can trap you, and then you're terrified,
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: and then when you actually do a lot of the
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: things you fear actually do happen. And I do not
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: want anybody listening to this podcast to think, oh gosh,
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: now I can't get a divorce.
• 10:32
  Speaker 5: We just want to educate.
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: You about how to best protect yourself, because nobody tells
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: you how to protect yourself, and you can't always completely
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: protect yourself as.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Don't hide it tell your friends. And then you know
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: when I I would remember being pregnant with the twins
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: and he was braiding me and I had tears going
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: down my face at my daughter's school thing, and I
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: didn't tell anybody I was. I was embarrassed.
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, because you're ashamed, because you're like, people are going
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: to go, well, then why are you married to this?
• 11:01
  Speaker 5: Why why are you still here?
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: So you become very very ashamed, and you do want
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: to hide it and you do want to minimize it.
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: And I experience that exact same.
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, isolation, yes.
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: And it just makes the cycle. It just makes you
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: even more ingrained into the cycle because you're like, well,
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: I'm so ashamed and so embarrassed that I've been in
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: this situation so long, and I don't want to be judged,
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: and you know, I don't want my kids to be
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: impacted by people knowing about this.
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: So you do keep it to.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: Yourself, and we can turn it around to tell other
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: men and women. If a woman tells you something, you
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: believe her, vice versa. Men can be abused by women.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: For sure, Yeah, yeah, so can go hold ways.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: But if someone tells you there's some you know, bad
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: stuff going on, you support them, you know, because if
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: I would have known, that could tell somebody, even if
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: that person decides to leave later on, you could be
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: a witness. Look, I was there, I saw it, and
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: that's where people are held accountable for protecting victims well.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: And isolation is a tricky thing too, because I'm know
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: again in my experience, I had felt like I was
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: a participant in my own isolation, and so because of that,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: I felt ashamed to then reach out because my family
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: had tried, and they had tried, and they had tried,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: and they had tried, like I mean from the beginning,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: like this isn't healthy, get out of this. So then
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: when it was finally time to really get out, I'd
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: isolated myself so much at the you know, at the
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: hands of of course my ex too. Right, there's that
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: manipulation tactic there that I just couldn't speak up about it, right,
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: I was too afraid until of course I was forced to,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: which is a very similar situation than what you're going through.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: My kid was ripped away from me too, So so
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: let's you know, so when you finally did he finally
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: leave or did you finally leave?
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: So I had my third and then I was going
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: to leave again. After he was a month or two,
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: we went on a trip to New Orleans with the
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: All's business partners's begging me to stay, begging me to stay.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: I said, no, I'm leaving. It was our last trip.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: I had to you know, had to show my I
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: had to. It was a business trip, right, so I
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: had to show be his little you know, Rophy, I guess, right.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: And then I came home on the airplane home. I
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: remember going. I didn't start my period, but I was nursing.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: I had one or two month old, you know, pumping
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: the whole time when I was on this trip. Yeah,
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: I found I was pregnant that night, and I'm like,
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: I'm going to have a two kids in one year.
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: Then it was three kids in one year, Oh my goodness.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: So then a month later found out was twins, and
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh my gosh, three in one year.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: I mean I was pregnant two years in a row
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: or summers, you know. Yeah, So but then he was
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: So I was pregnant with the twins, and then he
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: was always gone. But I finally found a receipt that
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: he had bought all brand new furniture for the other house,
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: and I was really pregnant, and so I found out
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: he was leaving. So then he moved out, and I
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: filed for divorce to protect myself because he started emptying
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: all the bank accounts, you know. So I had the twins.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: He took him to the hospital, pretending that he was
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: a husband, but he didn't wear his ring and I did,
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: and I knew he was cheating on me. And I
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: had to have him in the operating room because I
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: wanted my girls to know that their dad was there.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: But it was hard. Oh, I can only imagine, you know,
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: And he's texting his girlfriend the whole time, sending pictures.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: But had the twins, Thank the Lord, they were healthy.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: They're in the Nike you for two weeks, so I was,
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: but he was gone. He left right after I had
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: the babies. Didn't even take me home from the hospital.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: I had to have some pick me up anyway. So
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: I was in the hospital for two weeks with the twins,
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: and I was struggling the three little ones at home
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: with the babysitter because you know, at that time, just
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: turned one, just turned three, and a five year old
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: had just start kindergarten. So I'm taking the kindergarten to school.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: I'm driving to the hospital an hour away taking care
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: of the twins, coming back taking care of the threes threes.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: But then after that, a week later, I had to
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: be there a full time because I was nursing twins.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: So at nurse one and I nursed the other, and
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: then I'd pumped for an hour, then I'd nurse one.
• 14:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's all you do, It's all I did.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: And he turned off my credit He shut all my
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: credit cards off. I couldn't eat, and so my friend
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: had to come up and give me a credit card
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: to eat. And it just got worse. He turned off
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: all the water when I got home with the twins,
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: so I had to pick all the kids in the
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: car to turn the water back on. We lived in
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: a million dollar house. I went from a million dollar
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: house to food stamps. He had my child who worked
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: for eighteen months. There was a GoFundMe that went national
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: fout ten thousand dollars to even buy stuff. So it
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: was long, three years of it. But the truth was told.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: The judge saw the truth. They saw that his nanny
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: at the time he lied under oath that it was
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: his nanny, but it was a girlfriend, which I don't
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: care you had a girlfriend. The problem is I've had
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: two people conspire to take my children away from me
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: for over twelve years now, and they won. But the
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: divorce decree was solid. It was a thirty page to
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: force to cree. I got eighty percent. Not because I
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: didn't want them to have a dad, but he was
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: all vacationing all the time, yeah, and working and not
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: even taking care of the kids. I mean, I had
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: people that could have been for their own groceries get
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: me groceries. And that was hard because he makes millions,
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: you know, and I'm just like so, and my decreates
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: talks about taking He's buying furniture for this nanny taking
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: her own vacations. I couldn't even get the AC to
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: fix my van, so my kids were in the hot van.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: I had pictures of them sweating. And he wouldn't trade
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: vehicles with me so to get the AC for a
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: van for them. So it's hard. I couldn't even know
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: the grocery store with myself. There's no you know, you
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: couldn't like order online, right, I had two car seats.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: Who's going to hold the one year old boy, right,
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: Who's going to hold a three year old I was trapped.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I know.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: The first time I got out, I took the kids
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: to go see Santa for the first time by myself,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: and the twins were babies, and I was so proud
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: of myself, but I'm like, how do I nurse at
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: a nurse? It was It was crazy, but everything you know,
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: he didn't. Then he started stalking me and harassing me,
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: put a GPS on my car, The state put a
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: protection all.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: This is when the divorce was final.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Sorry, this was going through. So the divorce was three
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: and a half years.
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: Okay, that's brutal.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Six court dates. Yeah, three hundred and fifty thousand dollars
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: and that was the equity I got out of the house,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: but it went to a lawyer.
• 16:54
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so at three and a half year divorce, that's
• 16:56
  Speaker 5: pretty brutal. What else was going on during that time?
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: During exchanges he would touch me inappropriately. If I was
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: holding a baby, he would touch my chest. He just
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: felt like, even though he had a woman, he just
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: felt like I was his property. Still, we had a
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: situation to where I'd putting the kids in the van
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: helping him because we had five in car seats and
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: he would put his back on me and rub his
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: thing on me. And finally, at that point it was
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: I was like, I'm recording this, and so I put
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: my cell phone and hit it and it showed he
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: wouldn't let me go, and I had my kids are
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: around and I'm not going to push him off and
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: get off of me, right, I don't want to scare
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: my kids. So the video, I'm just sitting there. Can
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: you let go of me? Please? You know, but my
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: daughter's walking around, so and I said, get that off
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: of me. I'm not doing anything. I'm not doing anything
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: while he's so finally I did make a report on that.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: His father actually told me to call the cause yea,
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: and I did, and that's made a report well to
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: state put a huge protection order and charged him, thank god,
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: and so there's a protected order on him. We went
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: through court but and then the attorney made me drop
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: it because you know, we don't want that, which is
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: a whole absurd thing. But anyway, protection order was in
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: for two years. Come to find out, he one day
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: he was like, are you dating a guy? And I'm like,
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: it's been two years, and something was weird and his
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: mother goes, something's on your car. So we go in
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: the GPS. And this was in the day where the
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: GPS was big, and it was a huge but it
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: was a big one. It wasn't even one like it
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: was stuck up under there and they pulled it off
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: and I was like, oh my goodness. And it took
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: eight months for it to tie to him, and he
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: got charged in the day he got arrested. I was
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: so excited. He turned himself in but and he pleaded guilty,
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: but took it down to misdemeanor because it was a felony.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: But he has mortgages. He's a Christian mortgage guy in
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: Kansas City. He's very well known. He's all for the
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Christian radio network. He said, his own radio show. But
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: so he didn't want that charge because he couldn't work,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: So he played guilty misdemeanor. Had only a ninety days
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: house arrest. During this whole time, he's writing me love
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: letter and sending me begging me back, while he's sending
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: me flowers, while he's with his nanny girlfriend. So but anyway,
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: all that happened and then the divorce was final, I thought, oh,
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: we won let's get over with it, you know. Nope,
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: took me back to court in a different state.
• 19:17
  Speaker 5: So what was in your final divorce decree?
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: The final decree stated how a wonderful mother I was,
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: how I chose my children over any relationship, how I
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: was night and day with my kids, and I chose
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: a house by based off my children's safety. And then
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: it went into how he was vacationing not seeing the children.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: How when the twins were in the nicku for two weeks,
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: he only visited them twice for an hour. So it
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: really the thirty page divorce decree really showed the truth.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Took three hundred fifty thousand dollars to get there, six
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: court dates, but at least the truth was known, and
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: I thought, thank the Lord and the judge really cared
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: about the situation. Because I couldn't work. I had claim
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: I was working in the divorce, which still doesn't make
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: sense to me. But there's no daycare provided for so
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: I couldn't even work. But because five kids in.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Daycare, it's spent and that would take all your money, yeah,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: every bit of it.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Right, and so the top. So that's what's weird. And
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: every state is different. But it does matter if you
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: make a hundred thousand to a million, it's the same percentage.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: So I got three thousand dollars for five children a month.
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: Wow, that's you know, that's not enough to even probably
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: cover the cost of daycare for five years.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: Right, So I couldn't work. I was strapped to not work. Right,
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: But then the judge really felt for me. I was
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: only married six years, but it's created seventeen years of hell.
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: Just goes to show you.
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: I mean, I try to tell my older daughter, who
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: you choose to marry in life will have the biggest
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: impact on every aspect of your life.
• 20:56
  Speaker 5: Ask me how I know.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, you can change jobs, you can change where
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: you live, you can change family. But who you choose
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: to partner with was will detect your whole life? Detect
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: change your whole life? Right, And who's a kid with? Yeah,
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: and that is the worst thing, And you have to
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: all I was, I was a see I'm a photographer,
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: and so I taket sing your pictures and every girl
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: I talked to and boy, I said, who you choose
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: to partner with, that's the biggest choice you'll ever make.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: And it's worse. It can make your life amazing or
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: can my life loving? Hell?
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: That's right, and she was wisely, yes.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: You know, so yes, I love that you just said
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: that because I totally believe it. By that And then
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: and once somethime, somebody always told me one time, if
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: you have a partner vision having a son.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: Like him, would you want.
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: To sound the acts like him?
• 21:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah? I know.
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: I remember being pregnant with my second and my husband
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: started drinking again, like he was sober for a little while,
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: and then he started drinking pretty soon after I got
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: pregnant with my second, and it went downhill so so badly,
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: and I just remember being like, God, please let this
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: be a girl, because if this is a boy, you know,
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: the same sex parent is tends to be the most
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: influential parent. I mean not always, but it, you know,
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: tends to be. I said, he will corrupt a son.
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: It will not be okay. He will not teach this
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: son good morals and good values. And at least if
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: it's a daughter, maybe she'll look at me to know
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: how to grow up and the morals and the values
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: to have.
• 22:20
  Speaker 5: Which that sounds harsh, but.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Well even if I felt, but if you look at
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: your a person Let's say you don't like how they
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: acting on you're dating. Visualize your son at like that.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: Would you support your son acting that way even if
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: that child never met their father. But it's still a
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: genetic thing too.
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: There's a genetic components to lots of psychological disorders.
• 22:39
  Speaker 5: I mean, narcissism also being one of them.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's see where we.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Were we Well, you were talking about like your divorce
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: was final. What I want our listeners to know and
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: and for you to really bring awareness to is when
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: shit hit the fan, and what happened, what led up
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: to that, and then what's happened since.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: So twenty sixteen, my divorce was final, he appealed it.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: So that went through almost the end of December twenty
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: seventeen by to court not even few months later in
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: a different state. Then we're in court for two and
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: a half years.
• 23:14
  Speaker 5: Because he changed jurisdictions on you because you live. Can
• 23:18
  Speaker 5: I say where you live or now?
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: Okay, So you live in Kansas City, And Kansas City
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: is like right there on the line between Missouri and Kansas.
• 23:23
  Speaker 5: So if you live on one side of the city,
• 23:25
  Speaker 5: you're in case moo. If you're on the other side.
• 23:27
  Speaker 5: You're in k c K.
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: So okay, because I was going to ask that, how how.
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but it's the city is pretty much split between
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: two days, and.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: So I go five minutes and I'm in Missouri, right,
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: I mean it's yeah, it's I don't understand it. I
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: don't know if there's any other huge city that's on
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: right line, but I know, I know. So that's where
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: it's easy to do that and a lot of people
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: do it. But that's where he took me back. But
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: the problem was he took me back to court to
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: the lower the child support to nine hundred a month what.
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: Five children see in Kentucky. I don't know how it
• 23:57
  Speaker 4: works in different states. In Kentucky, it's just like a
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: mathematical form that all these things go in to it,
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: and unless you agree to something different mutually, it is
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: what it is, right, right, It's on the income and
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: the amount of children that you have.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: Correct. That's where this gets weird because he went through
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: eight attorneys, not I can't and it was seven or
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: eight And I'm not factual on this, yes, right, So
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: when he found a good attorney that really saw the truth.
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: They leave, right.
• 24:24
  Speaker 5: You know, they don't want that, so.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: The only attorneys that he could keep are the dirty
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: ones that just want the money. Well, he doesn't mind
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: spending money.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: Set me on his.
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: Kids, right, accept on his kids to be in your care.
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: Then it's a problem.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: But that's where you still have to fight it. Even
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: though there is a calculation if they take if I
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: didn't go to court and prove the calculation, right, that
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: they would go down nine hundred like that, right, And
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: I will say I didn't say this. The judge on
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: the divorce decree did give me three thousand dollars a
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: maintenance because he knew I couldn't support the children on
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: three thousand on child supports, right, so he did give
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: me maintenance to offset it. And that's what I had
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: to get s thousand dollars so I could survive. But
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: preschool costs one thousand.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: Dollars a month.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I still was tight. Not to mention, I still lawyer.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: Bills, right yeah.
• 25:07
  Speaker 5: Oh and those pile up, yeah, like that's so quick?
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah yeah. And five kids, I mean.
• 25:13
  Speaker 5: I have we have four in my house. My husband
• 25:16
  Speaker 5: has too.
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: I have my two daughters that my husband just adopted
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: recently because of their dad's passing and four kids.
• 25:23
  Speaker 5: I mean, Rain, it can tell you our house is
• 25:25
  Speaker 5: a zoo, pure chaos.
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: It's pure chaos, twenty four to seven. And I mean,
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: I can't even imagine them all being like that little
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: Like our oldests are twelve and fourteen now, so they're
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: pretty independent. Like they can go make themselves some food,
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: right like they can. They can kind of be home,
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: you know, and not need like you being right there
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: and you have a one or two year old, your
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: whole life is just making sure they don't climb on something.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: So like right, I mean I on their head or
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: fall down. I had to wait for the twins to
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: take a nap so I can push Mo the yard.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: Why my boys would follow me with their little play
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: push mowers so I could watch them. Oh my god,
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: why my x pace for everything to be done cleaning
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: when you had the kids and nanny everything, And here
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to push Mo with it. And that's how
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: I could watch them. So it was unbelievably crazy of
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: the situation that I was stuck in. And I'm so
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: thankful through all that God was by my side. And
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: you know, the nights of nursing my twins and then
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: throwing up on each other, and then throwing up on me,
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: and then the one year old crying in all the
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: night and you going upstairs to get them, and then
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: my three year old's still waking up.
• 26:28
  Speaker 5: You have no sleep, No sleep, didn't none. I had
• 26:31
  Speaker 5: no sleep with one child.
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: I mean, my kids are six years apart, so you know,
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: my oldest was definitely sleeping through the night by the
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: time I had my youngest, but then she didn't sleep.
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: Neither my kids slept, and just getting up with one
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: child was enough to break almost break you.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but here's what I will say through all that,
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: God showed me this, even though it was horribly hard.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: They're my children.
• 26:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and you'd find out I did it.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: And I didn't have a person there yelling at me
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: while I did it. It would have been the same. Yeah,
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: I would have been doing it by myself with that,
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: And that's what God was saying, Megan, you can do this,
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: and how did you do it?
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: Guess what you would do it too if you.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: Were in the same situation. You have to your children
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: and our children, and we loved them, and it gave
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: me that strength. So anyone does want to leave, it's hard,
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: but guess what, It's easier because I didn't have anyone
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: dictating how I fed my child or dictating how I
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: cleaned the kitchen or clean the toilet, right right, So
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: it was like freedom.
• 27:23
  Speaker 5: I do understand that.
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: Freedom is I understand that one hundred percent because if
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: you are with a partner that does not help you
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: and is also abusing you, at least you're free from
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: the abuse while you're still doing all of the hard.
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: Work exactly you would have been doing anyway by your Yeah,
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: you do that anyway.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: And that's what I tell people. Yes, it is scary,
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: and your kids might, you know, go through this, and
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: my situation got really bad, and we can turn onto
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: that if you guys want to. But that's why there
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: is hope. And it's hell going through the legal system,
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: but at least you don't have that in your home,
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: right right right, you know, I mean, be healthier for
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: the children being free from an abuse.
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: It's it's a very it's not an easy journey either.
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: People think like, oh, once you're out and you're free,
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: it's just like sunshine and rainbows. It's not your trauma bonded.
• 28:09
  Speaker 4: Your brain has become addicted to this intermittent reinforcement cycle
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: of massive stress hormones coupled by you know, dopamine and serotonin.
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: When things are somewhat calm or something's not happening, and
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: then you get massive dump of stress hormones. Your nervous
• 28:24
  Speaker 4: system is just totally wrecked. And so, believe it or not,
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: people don't even know this about trauma bonding. There's a
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: withdrawal stage where your brain chemistry is just so messed
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: up because you know, it's become addicted to the cycling
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: of stress hormones plus like the relief hormones or relief chemicals,
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: I should say, And it's a rollercoaster for your brain
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: even when you're out of it. You're crying, you're then
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: you feel empowered, and then you feel sad, and then
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: you feel you know, like you're you're scared, and you know,
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: you're just a rollercoaster of all sorts of emotions that
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: happen even when the threat isn't living with you anymore.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, I agree through that, and I think that was
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: kind of my saving grace because there was a restrain order.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: He couldn't contact me even he was but he couldn't
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: least call me. But I think God kept me so
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: busy with those children. Yeah, and the happiness I got
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: from the little twins and the little ones running around,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: the big chunky cheeks, and you know that I didn't
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: have time to think on that. That's was a gift
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: because I didn't. It was just the children and there
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: was no But I've worked on myself since then as
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: I've gotten older, you know, to get through it. But
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: I didn't have those feelings because these children were all
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: over me.
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so you were pretty probably fairly dissociated, just in
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: the trenches of parenting.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, but I was still going to therapy every week.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: My therapist would help me change diapers if there's a blood,
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: you know. So I was always working on myself during
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: all of this, and that's when I was I didn't
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: want to like attach myself to another person, yes, you know, but.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I just want like kudos to you, Meg.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: I just I hear your story and it puts my
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: own story in perspective where I'm just like, I mean,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: I had one and it was hard and then you know,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: and I feel like it was just this long battle
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: and my battle was long and it was drawn out,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: but I could not imagine trying to do all that
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: with five kids under the age of ten. Like I
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: just it blows my mind, Like, if anything, you deserve
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: an award. Oh no, you deserve an award that you
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: that you're here and that you know you're still fighting
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: and you know.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: And that's where the story gets so sad.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, and and we want to talk about
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: that too. We definitely want to talk about that, even
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: though it is sad.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: Because there was so much pain and trauma that I
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: got through. Yeah I won, meaning my kids are safe,
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: you know, and and so then we got through it,
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: and then out of nowhere, I thought everything was going
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: to be okay. We went through court. I fought that
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: battle another fifty thousand dollars in my credit cards. The
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: judge says, no, you still need to paid three thousand,
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: and actually went up one hundred dollars, so it's two
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: nine or two hundred nine, you know, three thousand total
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: by this time, and I'm like, yay, I want again
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: now behind my back my ex and his wife and
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: we didn't even go through the fact of his wife
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: going to the cops telling all I want you to
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: just get arrested. Had all my town cops looking out
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: for me, that if I made one mistake, they were
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: going to arrest me, and they planned how they were
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: going to take my kids from me and put me
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: in jail so she can have my kids as her own.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: That's that's going on while he's doing so. I've had
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: two people.
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: Disordered people tend to find more disordered people, right, and
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: I hear that a lot right. New wife comes in.
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: New Wife's like, no, I want this to be my family.
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: I've had so many clients tell me that they've experienced
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: that very same thing, where new wife is like, wants
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: to be the mom, wants to be the face of
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: the family, wants to have the kids and have.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that happens with dads too, dau yes to
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: be new dad.
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it can go both ways, it really can. This
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: is not a gendered issue. I am the first one
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: to say I know through experience, and ask.
• 31:55
  Speaker 5: Me how I know.
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: If you listen to our last episode, you will know
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: that women can be just as abusive and nasty and
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: disordered as men can be.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: So and I've met men that will pay extra child
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: support and make sure his wife's taken care of or
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: and had fourth core or four kids at homes. I
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: don't want her to have to disrupt their children. So
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: I do know there are great men out there.
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: My husband pays three hundred extra dollars a month that
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: he does not have to pay because it's technically for
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: day care costs. His kid is twelve now and not
• 32:23
  Speaker 4: in daycare. But he's like, I just don't want to
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: take that away from her mom, because you know, she's
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: relied on that for so long. And then he will
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: jump in and pay for whatever else she needs, like,
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: we'll pay for braces, we'll pay for whatever.
• 32:36
  Speaker 5: You know. He just it's all about making sure his
• 32:38
  Speaker 5: kids have everything that they need.
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: And it's the way it should.
• 32:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah, And there are so many good men that are
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: like that.
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: There are, And there are also people that are in
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: my situation that really are horrible that like, don't you
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: can't have our children? No, you can't have them. I
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: had my kids eighty percent. But anytime my ex wanted
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: to take my son to a car show for three days,
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: go for it. Anytime a Chiefs game, Royals game, go
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: for it. I did not care.
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: Well, you don't want your children to miss out on
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: those experiences?
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: No, And it was like I had an extra kid
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: for a little bit, right, it was nice. But I
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: never withheld my kids from their father ever, even as
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: they became older. You want to go, fine, go, I
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: don't care. So there is a difference there too. Even
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: though I don't like how my ex treated me and
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: I didn't agree with how he treated our children, I
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: can't control that, right, I can't control Gus on his house,
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: and you know, and people some people are like the
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: Disneyland dad will be happy it's a Disneyland dad, instead
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: of mean dad. What do you want? Pick one? Well,
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: I picked the Disneyland dad, or my kids coming home
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: going Dad bought me this, you know. So I've always
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: taught people that be happy for that because I've had
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: them come home bawling their eyes out because dad did this. Right,
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: I don't want and you can't control it.
• 33:44
  Speaker 5: You can't control it at all. And the court system
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: doesn't care. They don't care.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: They don't care, they don't care at all.
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: And so I think that's why so many of my
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: clients are afraid of getting a divorce, is because I
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: don't trust them my other you know, my spouse, as
• 33:58
  Speaker 4: the other parent to raise these kids. Somewhat on his
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: own or her own, and it's it is true that
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: it can be scary, and a lot of people end
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: up parallel parenting. And what I like to say is,
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: you know, one secure, healthy parent, the science shows can
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: make an amazing difference in whether a kid becomes securely
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: attached or not. And so you can always be that parent,
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: you know, as long as you have access to your children,
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: which I think is where your story takes a really
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: dark turn. Yes, so talk to us a little bit
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: about when it hit the fan.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: So I finally we had COVID hit. My kids are
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: in school, finally in twenty twenty, everyone's in school, you know,
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: and then COVID hit. Yea. Then they're home for eight months,
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: oh my god. And then I'm homeschooling all of them.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: It took five hours a day, I'm sure. Yeah. So
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: then that happened. And then finally in twenty twenty two,
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: I can get a job.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: And I'm so excited about the career.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: I was like, so I found my dream job, and
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: my kids were super excited. I say, we I wanted
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: to move, so we moved into our dream home. I
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: was like, if you want to live in the school district.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: I can't afford this. I need to make more money. Okay,
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: well support mom, We'll get you. So did that. I
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: moved into her home super excited, and I didn't know
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: behind my back for a whole year, my ex and
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: his wife had been meeting with our children's court appointed therapist,
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: telling him them lies. And the court order even states
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: that no both parents have to be present with the therapists,
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: meaning you can't text her privately, you can't email her privately.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: I didn't know he was meeting with her. So, for instance,
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: when I found this out, one date, I was at
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: my twins field trip having a ball with her, with
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: everyone in the school. He was there teaching, telling the
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: therapist horrible lies about me, sixty nine sessions that I
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: didn't know.
• 35:44
  Speaker 5: Oh my gosh.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: Then he got to a point where he would take
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: the kids after they're at my house, like after Christmas,
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: right before they're taken, he would take them to the therapist.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: And my children got in the car one day after school,
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: my four little ones said, mom and mom, Mom, mom,
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: dad keeps making us say lies about you. I have
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: this on recording, and this was not and this was
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: not from his house. This is from school. They just
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: got in the car. Mom. Dad keep saying, we have
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: to make up things about you, and if we don't
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: say it those things are true, then we will get
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: in huge trouble. And they probably dramatized a little bit
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: of it, you know, like I had to go to
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: bed without dinner, you know, or Dad made as good
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: a bed at six. I don't know the truth on that,
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: but there's three of them we're saying, and four of
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: them we're saying this, right. So I said, well, guys,
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: you know it's not good to lie. Well, Dad, we
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: can control them. We're so sorry. So I started seeing
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: some things happening, like what's going on anyway? Moving our home.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: I'm so excited a job. Finally, I feel like I
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: could have a lie for the first time. I did
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: give him fifty percent a year before that, because I'd
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: like thinking, if I give him fifty percent, they're older now,
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: the twins are ten, the oldest was older, maybe he'll
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: stop right. No, it got worse. So then I had
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: and then I was at my home my kids, and
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: I loved our whole situation. They all had their own rooms,
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: they had their own bathrooms. It was a lot for
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: me to get this house like it was, you know,
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: but I I said, okay, they're only going to be
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: here for rio eight more years. No, yeah, eight more years. Okay.
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: So I had a wonderful week with my children. My
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: mom came to visit like she always does. We made
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: dragon hair. It's like a weird, but I mean I
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: did everything, slime you name it, you know, may hold
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: my popcorn that morning, and took my kids to school,
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: dropped him off. My son twist and at that time
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: was ten eleven eleven, and he always kisses me, make
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: sure every time, and he didn't do it that day.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: My son's like, Mom, become my basketball game after work?
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Are you gonna miss work? I said, yeah, I'm gonna
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: miss work. My twins were excited to do a project,
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: a fourth grade project, and I found out eleven thirty
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: am that I had to go to court two or three.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: I get to court full custody. They wanted to gone
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: my They wanted to take my kids completely away from me,
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: and I was like, what, why, how? What I'm sitting
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: there and they read the most disgusting things anyone could
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: ever say about a woman, about a mom, about a parent.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: That's it and so what were the I mean, if
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: you feel comme trouble sharing, what were the allegations? Well,
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: first off, I've never seen them, what never got to
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: read them, and the judge even said I'm only going
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: to read part of them because it's so bad. No
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: one's questioned me. The Guardian item never's questioned me. And
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: the Garden Lighten was the one that filed it. So
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: the Guardian Lightem is actually well, very well known in
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: my county that takes he hates women because has all
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: women are batshit crazy. He's also a judge. Oh okay, anlare.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: But I have found probably ten women now that have
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: lost their kids like I have because of this jo
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: Garden where like.
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: Had someone had anybody signed affidavits like what?
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: Under what grounds were?
• 38:43
  Speaker 5: Like?
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: I mean it just the order said I lose full
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: custody because I have mental illness and I drink too much.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: That's why I saw. But I getn't to see the
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: deep report why right? And all I know is what
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: I remember hearing And you have to remember too. I
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: don't remember everything because I was because.
• 38:59
  Speaker 5: You're traumatized and memories are encoded differently when you're being traumatized.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: Right first, exactly, But I do remember certain things. I
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: teach my kids how to give head. Oh my gosh,
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: I watched porn with my children. I have random guys
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: at my house watching my children, which everyone in the
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: whole neighborhood, and everyone knows me. I don't have a man, right,
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: never I brought I brought one guy a long time ago.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: I had one er short relationship, not short. We were
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: together for two years, but I only saw each other
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: other the weekend because I kept him away from my kids.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: So even I did have a you're entitled to a life, right,
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: but I never ever ever did like I saw him
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: for two years and then I can only see me
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: over the weekend. And then my kids met him finally
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: after years, but they didn't hurt, you know. Anyway, that's
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: a whole other thing. But I always never had a
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: man in my bed. My kids have never seen a
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: man in my bed ever, not even their father. The
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: oldest remembers maybe because she was five, but they've never
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: seen they've been in my bed. So for him to
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: say that, so that was absurd. And even if I
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: did have a guy come over, like you know, right,
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: you're entitled to a life, right. Yeah, I didn't have
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: food in my house. My pants was empty, even though
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: I had a half a cow my garage. My pantry
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: is full organized. Yeah, my mom recorded walking into my
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: house after we were gone.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: Help.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: Pantries full, but I.
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: Have no food.
• 40:11
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's cat's pee on the bed.
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, mold.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: I lived in a five hundred and fifty thousand dollars
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: house that I worked my tail off for. Everyone came
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: to my house. My house was an open door. When
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: you don't have a partner, people can just come in
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: and you don't care. Right if a kid didn't want
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: to go home at eleven o'clock at night, because there's
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: spend the night. They in my house. People saw me
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: every minute of my life. Six o'clock in the morning,
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: a kid had practiced their dad's picking them up.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, some of what you've just said
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: here today, it's very evident that you are a very
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: hands on mother like you don't you don't even have
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: to defend that with U. Yeah, because this, I mean
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: this not to the degree that you have gone through,
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: but something very similar happened to me, you know, I
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: mean my ex file a dependent neglect and abuse case,
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: just said she's neglectful, she's abusive, she puts the physical
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: and emotional wellbeing of our child in danger. His parents
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: signed affidavits and boom, my kid was gone, gone, just gone. No,
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: no no other evidence you know to say that, you know,
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: no psychologists saying that I'd had multiple psychological disorders, which
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: is what they were claiming.
• 41:18
  Speaker 5: And that is what happens.
• 41:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they can just go in and say whatever they want.
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: Whatever they want, you know. I went into as little
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: detail as possible as I could about my own story,
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: not my first custody battle, but second story of my
• 41:37
  Speaker 4: kids being targeted with false allegations from someone that was
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: previously romantically involved with my husband. And all they have
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: to do is say it. That's all they have to do.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: In the manipulation of children's brains.
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: Yes, that's You've seen that firsthand as well. Where kids
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: are highly highly, highly impressionable, and alienation happens when children
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: believe that, Okay, I have one parent overhear you that
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: I know will always love me unconditionally. If Mom finds
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: out that I lie, she's still gonna love me. I
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: don't have to earn her love. But this parent over
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: here their love has to be earned, and I have
• 42:15
  Speaker 4: to perform to get love from that parent. So I
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: have to be compliant, and I had to tell these
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: lies or my safe connection with this parent is going
• 42:23
  Speaker 4: to be in jeopardy. And that's exactly what happened in
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: your case, exactly. It's exactly what happened to so many
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: people I know.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: So I will stay. A week before they were taken,
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: I forgot this. My kids come home from school and
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: I'm like, mom, this lady came and interviewed us DCF
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: or CPS, whatever we call it. Yeah, they're not going
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: to tell her our therapist what we said. Are they
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: and the twins were crying or ten? No, Well, they
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: usually just say if it's you know, someone's doing something
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: bad or not. Mom, they can't tell the therapist. I
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: like this, lady. They can't tell the therapist what I said,
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: or my dad what I said? Well, what'd you say?
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: I was just I just don't want to tell. Well,
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: the DCF called me after they were taken. I got
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: a hold of her two or three months after I
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: hadn't talked, still haven't seen them, She said, Megan, I
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: have never your kids were fine. They didn't have any
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: sexual problem. Nothing was wrong. Your kids are great. I
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: have and I have it on recording. I believe your
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: children are being prodded, and I fear for the safety
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: of their mental brains with their.
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: Father, right, Yeah, because no one will do anything true,
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: I mean, you don't think people just don't realize how
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: common this is and how easily children are manipulated. They're
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: manipulated so easily because they're trying to get safe connection.
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: They're trying to figure out how do I get or
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: maintain the safe connection with my caregiver. And a child
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: will grasp at straws and do just about anything to
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: not have their caregiver abandon them.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: And do you do you think like when a child
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: attaches herself to abuser, it's almost safer for them because
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: they're not being targeted anymore. Yeah, does that make you
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: know what I mean? Like, my children were constantly getting prouded.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: Your mom can't. I can't believe your mom puts signs
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: of birthday signs in your yard and for your birthday
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: and she wasn't saying it out there, just silly little things,
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: but now they don't hear that. Yeah, so it's almost
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: more peaceful. For them, but they know I love them unconditionally, right, yeah,
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: so that it's safer. They know I'm always going to
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: be there, My door's always gonna be open. I don't know.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: That's just something I've tried to read.
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: It is an alienation is just an interesting topic. I mean,
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: there's so many different stages of alienation, you know, and
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: it goes from mild coercion and a child basically lying.
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: That's kind of like the first stage, and it goes
• 44:20
  Speaker 4: all the way up to they start to believe these
• 44:25
  Speaker 4: narratives where they call it gatekeeping, where the abusive parent
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: will say these things to the child to make the child,
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: in this really roundabout way, start to believe that the
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: other parent is unsafe, like, oh, I can't believe your
• 44:39
  Speaker 4: mom did this, And I can't believe your mom, you know,
• 44:42
  Speaker 4: let you wear shorts to school when it was only
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: seventy degrees. That's that's too cold, and I can't believe
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: she puts you in that situation. She's you know, in
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: just these little ways in which they insert the idea
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: that the other parent is bad and that the other
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: parent doesn't have their best interest in mind.
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: I can't believe it that you eat that right that
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: time and life.
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: Yes, that's called gatekeeping, and that's sort of like this
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: intermediate alienation phase. And then we get to full blown
• 45:06
  Speaker 4: alienation where the child actually does start to reject the
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: safe parent because again there's a psychological concept called splitting,
• 45:16
  Speaker 4: and kids have an underdeveloped psyche obviously, and so they
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: start to sort of categorize, well, this is the good.
• 45:23
  Speaker 5: Parent and this is the bad parent.
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: And even though they haven't experienced you being the bad parent,
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: the other parent has gained so much credibility with them
• 45:33
  Speaker 4: and has manipulated them so much. And again, underlying all
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: of that is their fear that if I don't comply,
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: I lose access of safe connection to this other parent.
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: And there is sort of in the back of their
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: mind like, Okay, I know that it's going to be
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: okay with this parent, but I just need to go
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: along and keep the peace. And there's a lot of
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: elements of compliance for children around trying to keep the
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: peace and trying to be compliant to their parents, and
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: so they will start essentially participating in the targeting against
• 46:03
  Speaker 4: you and believing and believing it.
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: And that's what's happened with mine because they've been withheld
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: for so long because you know I lost sorry, I
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: lost the January twenty ninth of twenty twenty four. Didn't
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: see them until December twenty third of twenty twenty four.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: No contact, no phone calls. Now you'd have to commit me, Yeah,
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: I mean see you. I would be.
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: I can't even imagine. I cannot imagine.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: I couldn't. I can't go. I can't drive to town. What
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: if I see my kids at the store. I couldn't
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: imagine seeing my child at the store and then not
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: because they were told if I if they said hi
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: to me, if they ever saw me, they I'll go
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: to jail. A month after taking my best friend was
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: at school seeing my daughter and she leaned over and said,
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: your mom misses.
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: You and loves you.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: She got in trouble. What how dare you tell these
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: girls by the mom step mom? And I'm like, wait,
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: where are we in a situation to where the kids
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: My kids didn't see a picture of me. My kids
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: didn't even know what it looks like anymore. My friends
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: would draw and pick. She was a dance practiced and
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: what my mom looked like. They know they took everything,
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: They took my home and then everything got taken. So
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: my problem is I can't imagine me a ten year
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: a little girl or boy go to school, never see
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: your mom again, not even a phone call, nothing. They
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: took all their phones, change all their numbers.
• 47:20
  Speaker 5: How can these judges live with themselves?
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: They live five minutes from me. I can't even drive
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: by the house, even though it's the main street. Then
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: I get the cops called that I'm stalking them. I'm not.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: You really think I want to drive by my ex's
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: house to see my kids outside plane.
• 47:32
  Speaker 5: I would probably be in prison.
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I probably would be too, honestly.
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: And I know we say that, and it's easy to
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: say that, but your ultimate goal is like, no, I
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: don't want to because I want to see my kids
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: back right, Well, and that's.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: When people just go see them at school. I'm like
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: the grocers don't cut. No, they don't like you, but
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: it's more damaging for them my children. I care more
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: about my kids' brains. So if I saw my kids
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: and they are scared that they say hi to me,
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: that's so trauma. Then to see their mama and can't
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: say hill, right, And if then I couldn't say hi,
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: and if I said hi to them, I go to jail.
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: That guilt I would put on them.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: I care more about my kid's brain than my own
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: feelings of seeing my children. So no, I can't. I
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: can't drive through town. I've had trauma where I couldn't
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: even drive by their school and I had to. But
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: I happened to clear my whole house out there, just
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: pot their rooms empty that we just decorated the night before.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: My daughter reranged a whole room, so and everything in storage.
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: But he's taken me down. And that's what they do.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: They pushed you so hard to wear you go crazy,
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: un alive yourself, You do stupid things.
• 48:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the real. Okay, moms, if you're in the
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: car with your kids, turn the volume down. Fuckery of
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: this system is the fact that they do all of
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: these horrible things. There is so much injustice in so
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: many different ways. It doesn't even make any freaking sense
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: half the time. And then when you react in any way,
• 49:06
  Speaker 4: then they can point to figure out you and say
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: you're crazy.
• 49:08
  Speaker 5: You're damn here, you're damaging, or here's here's the evidence
• 49:11
  Speaker 5: that you're unstable.
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: They push you to instability and take your kids away
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: and then look, you're unstable.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: And that's what they did to me. I had a
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: psychiatrist evaluation a year before my kids were taken. It
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: came back saying I'm too positive a person. Everything I've
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: gone through, with all the court stuff, I shouldn't be
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: this positive. And I was theatrical whatever that means, theodotrical animated.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm you know, but my DS came back anger issues,
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: he needs all this. Then the day my kids then
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: the g al says you need to go back and
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: get another one, Like what You're going to make me
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: take another psych evaluation less than a year later when
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: you take my whole kids away.
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: You've taken my kids away?
• 49:47
  Speaker 5: Right, how's that going to turn out?
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: Now?
• 49:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'd be I'd be the first one to say
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: I'm one step away from being committed.
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: And so when I got to the doctor, I said
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: the same doctor, I said, how I to answer these question?
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: Because last time you had the one of the questions
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: where you know, are you sad a lot? No, I'm not.
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: I'm a happy person, but I am sad now I
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: lost my kids. Yeah, so it's going to be opposite.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: But normally am I sad? No, but you took my
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: kids away. So I literally recorded myself doing the answers
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: out loud because I was like, this is ridiculous. How
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: am I supposed to answer how I'm feeling when my
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: kids are gone? I haven't seen them in two much
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: at that point, right, you know. And then and then
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden we had other sessions from the
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: same doctor, and I'm like, who ordered this? No one
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: even ordered it. The gl did, so that was a violation.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: But and so then we had one more session left
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: with the psychiatrists on zoom zoom, the last one, and
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: he's like, I got one more session I want to
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: do with you. I said, okay, what did the test
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: come back so far? What are you thinking about me?
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: You'm just curious because I knew it'ld be bogus one
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: of them. It was a disorder where you can't even
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: survive without this relationship. I can't think of what was
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: called like dependency, Yes, so dependent that I and it.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: It was such a bad one, I think if I
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: looked it up, I remember correctly that I couldn't even
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: take care of myself physically, even showers. I'm so dependent
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: on my children, and here I was working, still wearing makeup,
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: taking care of myself, lost my children, go to work,
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: act perfectly happy. Five o'clock would hit. I would just
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: cry and then I couldn't go home, so I would
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: just drive until eight or nine was dark. I couldn't
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: go to my friend's house and cry because all their
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: kids were missing my kids, right, so I know where
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: to go and crying because I didn't want upset with
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: the kids, because all these kids loved me. Because anyways, So,
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: but that's where he started labeling me as I'm like,
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: I am not cold. I mean I'm still surviving.
• 51:31
  Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, that's not dependency.
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: No, plus you'd already been divorced.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: He said, I depend on my children. I think, okay, okay,
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: because I can't. And I'm like, but I mean working,
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: I was still working, like working full time.
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: These are my children that I should be nurturing and
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: taking care.
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: Of and not even to go bye. Then I got
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: in trouble. They set up a perfume on their stuff
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: outside when I had to take it all outside, and
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: I did put notes. I put notes I love you,
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: I put in their bibles, or I put it in
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: their PlayStation. They had give them and then I got
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: in trouble for it. What why were you in trouble
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: for a mom said, I love you.
• 52:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's happened to another creator that I'm friends with
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: on TikTok, who has gone through something similar as you.
• 52:11
  Speaker 4: Very very abusive X definitely took kids, manipulated her course
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: or manipulated the court system, and she did something similar
• 52:20
  Speaker 4: and yeah, got reprimanded for that.
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: And I didn't put perfume on them. Another woman did
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: that got her kids taken away at the same time. Yeah,
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: so they actually mixed the stories up because the same jail.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, I had a similar circumstance. You know, when
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: I was going when my son got taken away, I
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: was like, because I you know, I quit my job,
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: you know, I was going to move and things didn't.
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: Work out with the way that they should.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: So I wasn't working at the time, and I was like, oh, well,
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: I'll just go volunteer. It is preschool, you know, that's
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: something for me to do. Nope, they put a stop
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: to it. They wouldn't allow it. They would not allow it.
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: And so I mean, I know, I know to some
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: degree just what that feels like to just to all
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: your options just completely stripped from you.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: If I was convicted, I've actually legally charged, my trial
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: would have been way faster and I would have more
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: rights to my children if it was in the criminal world.
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 53:12
  Speaker 4: I say that all the time. It's like there is
• 53:15
  Speaker 4: absolutely no due process in family court.
• 53:17
  Speaker 5: There's no real due process.
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: None of the protections of the due process are available
• 53:24
  Speaker 4: in family court.
• 53:25
  Speaker 5: And I think that is a huge issue. Like what
• 53:27
  Speaker 5: immediately should have happened in your situation was that there
• 53:30
  Speaker 5: should have been a speedy jury trial where the evidence
• 53:33
  Speaker 5: was presented if these things were true or false.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: Right, my mom hired a turn ever happened for ten
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: thousand dollars, and that attorney could have appealed it within
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: fourteen days, no in anything, and then she just left
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: a month later and still lost all the money.
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 53:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's also something that we hear too, just attorneys
• 53:49
  Speaker 4: kind of abandoning cases, not following through.
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: And then they set it up. They set it up
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: to where when I finally took everything away child support
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: and knew I lost everything, and then they set the
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: trial up for August as January, I last my kids August.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: Then they put in sepulations that I would have reunification
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: therapy with my children and then the therapists will be
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: able to testify in court. Guess when they finally put
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: in reunification therapists in July twenty seventh, oh twenty second.
• 54:19
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and now they pulled the whole wall. You've been
• 54:20
  Speaker 5: away from them for too long, so you have to
• 54:22
  Speaker 5: do reunification there.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: And then I had to go through some July to
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: US December personal sessions to see how if I could
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: handle talking to my children. Then that was like every
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: week I was there going, Oh.
• 54:35
  Speaker 4: My gosh, your nervous system, I can't even imagine that,
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: like because you know you're being evaluated and the pressure
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: that that must be, Like if I do one wrong thing,
• 54:46
  Speaker 4: how are they going to twist it? How are they
• 54:47
  Speaker 4: going to misinterpret it? How is this going to be presented?
• 54:51
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: Also knowing the kids have completely been psychologically coerced and enabled.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: Too, Yeah, because they were completely gone.
• 54:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, because I mean they can't hear your side of
• 55:01
  Speaker 4: the story. I mean not that you would parentify them
• 55:03
  Speaker 4: in that way, but they can't experience you being a
• 55:05
  Speaker 4: loving caregiver, which is the only way that you can
• 55:10
  Speaker 4: essentially fight that narrative right right.
• 55:12
  Speaker 5: Right, and that's taken from you.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: When I did finally see my twins later on, you
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: can tell they're mad at me. And my daughter did
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: say you let this happen because they're being told I
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: wasn't doing on I was supposed to be doing to
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: see them. Mom's not going to do in her stop
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: the court said she needs to do this, she's not. Yes,
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: I am, and not to mention my ex filed to
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: I'm in court in Missouri because he filed before my
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: child sport was taken away to take my maintenance away.
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: So I'm in two different courts. I have two different
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: attorneys email me constantly. So all of a sudden, the
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: Kansas court said, oh, take a child sport away because
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: she still has a three thousand dollars maintenance live off
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: of okay, which was but he filed, right, well, it
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: cand of maintained your home when you relied on that money, right,
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: And I just bought this home then. But my axe
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: had filed a month later or a month earlier to
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: cancel my maintenance. But the told the other court that
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: it's still there, it's always going to be there.
• 56:03
  Speaker 4: So now i got s oh gosh, I can't even
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: imagine one court system and one jurisdiction is dysfunctional enough,
• 56:10
  Speaker 4: but then having two courts that somehow have to communicate
• 56:12
  Speaker 4: with each other or know what's going on, there's no way.
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: And the lawyers lie to each other.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they either lie to each other or
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: they're reve and elbows with each other. And you're both
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: both ways, you're doomed.
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: I just had court last week in the Missouri and
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: I had to do trial a pre trial, and his
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: my ex's attorney looked at the judge and said, oh,
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: their case is closed indefinitely. I said, it is not
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: so my story. It's sicker because their demanding. I paid
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: g alfas all these fees to the same man that
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: never questioned me if the accusations were true, to the
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: same man and therapist that new DCF came back saying
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: I was a great mother. I as stare presentators know
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: me personally been in my home that wrote letters. I
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: have so much solid evidence as a mom. I can't
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: pay all this money. So I filed a motion with
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: a judge telling him I cannot afford these j G
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: A L fees. He said, okay, we'll handle that during trial.
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: Then I had to move trial back from August. How
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: am I supposed to go to trial? Have this three
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: utification therapist tell the judge the truth about me and
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: my children, how we interact together. Oh, I haven't seen them.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: Still got pushed back, so pre trial to January's back January.
• 57:29
  Speaker 5: Now it's been a year since you've seen your kids.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: So then we have pre trial finally thinking hoping, No,
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: I'm hearing, Oh, we're gonna do it April twenty second,
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: which is funny as Karen Reid. You guys know Karen
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: read story. Karen reads is April twenty seventh, and her
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: whole life changed on January twenty ninth too. But April
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: twenty second, I cried, they but not cried, but I was,
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: your honor, Can we have it sooner? Year? Oh? No,
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: April twenty second, never go. That was it. And then
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: April first, I find out the judge canceled the trial,
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: the four day trial because I didn't pay thirteen thousand
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: dollars in attorney fees for the gl No one told me.
• 58:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's the other thing that they do to you.
• 58:14
  Speaker 4: If the judge orders a gall or what in Kentucky.
• 58:18
  Speaker 4: A lot of times it's called a friend of the court,
• 58:19
  Speaker 4: which they have a little bit of it's a little
• 58:21
  Speaker 4: bit different. The FOC is not actually an attorney for
• 58:25
  Speaker 4: the child. They're just like a court investigator. But if
• 58:27
  Speaker 4: you can't pay the fees, okay, well you just this
• 58:32
  Speaker 4: is stuck.
• 58:32
  Speaker 5: Then it's stalled.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: And I think that's one thing through this whole process,
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: because I had one ratification that they have recanceled because
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: I owed five hundred dollars and I mean, you know,
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: I don't pay for my kids expenses, but I pay
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: way more in the therapy stuff. And this whole time,
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: my children are still seeing the therapist that they're not
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: supposed to be seen anymore. Anyway, it gets complicated with that.
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: But now it's becoming pro SAE and learning my rights.
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: If a therapist cancels your session because you don't have
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: the money to see your child, that's illegal. You hold
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: them accountable. You tell them in the email you will
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: go in to report them. And guess what, I still
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: see my child every week unification therapy. He's not billing
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: me anymore. I spent ten thousand dollars just to see
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: my kids in reunification therapy. But what they're doing is
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: completely illegal. And once you've learned that, just to even
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: a simple email to a therapist that they're violating your
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: rights as a mother, they start changing, They start being scared.
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So take us down this way, us down the
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: hope journey.
• 59:36
  Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, because so this is where for our listeners
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: we start finding some empowerment. Yes, and you are doing
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: some unbelievable, unbelievable things at the federal level to fight
• 59:52
  Speaker 4: for your children, to get your children back, and to
• 59:54
  Speaker 4: change precedent so that this doesn't happen God forbid to
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 4: anyone else in the future, because if you're changing precedent
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 4: at the federal level, then that can be cited as
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 4: case law. Right exactly, these things aren't going to fly
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 4: in the lower courts anymore if there's federal precedent change.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: So tell us about these lawsuits, tell us about your
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: journey of learning the law.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 5: I think.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: If we weren't in the psychiatric ward RAINA, this is
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 4: probably the route that we would have taken. Like we
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 4: would have I probably would have done the same thing, Meg.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 4: I would have quit my job, and I would have
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 4: learned to be an attorney. To fight for my kids.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 4: And that's essentially what you've done. So tell us about
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 4: this journey.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: You know, when I realized, I've always been like you too.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: You can learn yourself. I can change Florine, I can
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: change an outlet. Right when I was realizing that these
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: attorneys were so not very smart, not saying all attorneys.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 2: They are a great attorneys, right, but I was like,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: something's off here. So then I started going to I
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: can't afford case law. You look all the cases. So
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: I found court listener. It's called and that's a nonprofit
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: organization called Free Law. They believe everyone should know the
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: right to read any case they so court listeners are
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: a great thing I love. I'm so thankful for them.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: But you can go on there and search any case
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: and read. And people don't realize that when if a
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: judge in a federal court, for instance, deny somebody's motion,
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: the judge will tell you what they did wrong. So
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: that's how I started learning. I started fighting. I started
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: reading cases every day. I wake up on the weekends.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: There's no I don't have a weekend. I don't I
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: just learn every day, every single day, read the laws,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: read my statues. So I've been fighting cases even in
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: my state that where somebody got their trial canceled because
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: of fees, and the Supreme Court came back saying, you
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: can't do that, it's unconstitutional. Okay. So I started learning.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: And that's where when I've taught so many women just
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: to learn how to learn, because I'm not teaching you
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: with law. I'm teaching you where to go find it right,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: go search the resources. That's all I'm teaching. And I've
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: had this one mother that lost her trial the same way,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: and she's gone from being so scared when the therapists
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: mounts her that now she's like learned so much, empowered, empowered,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: and she's not scared. She would leave her therapy crying. Megan,
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: she's totally gaslighting me. She said, I have a personality
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: disorder because I was just asking for my therapy notes.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: And then the GAT the same JL says, because she
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: asked for her therapy notes, I think she's really going mental.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: I'm not gonna let her see your daughter anymore. I
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: have that proof. She sounds corrupt, Yeah, really bad. Yeah,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: it's very I went from this woman crying leaving a
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: therapist and now she's following her first federal lawsuit today.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 3: That's amazing. But she did it herself.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: I didn't tell her. I told her go study this,
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: study this, here's your statues. Go and I told websites, easy, anyone.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: And she's like, Now she talks to me. You know,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: when you're talking to a lawyer, you don't understand what
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: they're saying. And now when she calls me, she's like, well,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: what about this complaint? What about this? You know, I
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: don't want to talk too big on that. The vocabulary
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: for law is a whole language. Sure, and now she's
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: talking the language and I'm just so proud of her.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: And that's like she could believe that. And that's where
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: I think the hope is, when you start learning your rights,
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: they start stepping back. I've helped a few men learn
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: how to stand up and read their law. What did
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: your state? When anyone asked me anything, what's your state laws?
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: Day?
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know, we'll go look it.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 5: Up, right.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 4: I know that there was so many violations in my case.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 4: There were so many violations of like local court rules
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 4: and stuff like the attorneys not filing things on time
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 4: and things should have proceeded. And then judges pushing back,
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 4: pushing back, pushing back, pushing back, giving and my gosh,
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 4: this is hard because my ex. One of the things
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 4: that I was pushing for so hard was drug and
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 4: alcohol testing because I knew that he was using, I
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 4: knew that he was an active addiction, and he was.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 4: I don't know how he passed his alcohol tests. I
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 4: don't know, if he had somebody pee for him, I
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 4: don't know, but you know, all of his alcohol tests
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 4: after the first one he failed, came back clean. And
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 4: so of course they didn't believe me, right, And then
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 4: his attorney, you know, broke the local rules and didn't
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 4: have a response in on time. And instead of proceeding
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 4: with our trial to you know, me, show my evidence
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 4: and to hopefully get this drug and alcohol testing and
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 4: get custody of my children because he was driving with
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 4: them drunk and you know, putting them at.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 5: Risk, it got pushed back.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 4: Well guess what he odd and that two week pushback,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 4: and that was not the first pushback, and it was like,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 4: you know, someone had to die for you know, the
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 4: truth to come out.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 5: And that is not okay.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 4: No, none of what we're talking about today is okay.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: It's not.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 4: And this is in a system that is supposed to
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 4: be supposed to protect the best interest of children, and
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 4: how they get it wrong nearly every single time is
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 4: freaking baffling to me. And the last thing I want
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 4: to give our listeners is no hope for getting a divorce.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 4: There is hope, but we also have to be very
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 4: very aware because being aware and empowered going in and
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 4: that's what you're doing is like people, if you know
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 4: your rights, if you know your rights, which I didn't
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 4: know my rights.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 5: I had no idea what my rights were.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: And that's what I tell people, even before you file
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: for divorce, go learn before you have to leave. Go
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: learn before you do it, because you will actually have
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: They will respect your rights if you state them right.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 4: And that as a solution here. That is the solution
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 4: here that we want to present to our listeners. So
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 4: you know, maybe for people this can be prevented because
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 4: your rights have been violated up and down, right and left,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 4: and you have figured that out and now you are
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 4: suing at the federal level.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 5: So tell us about those lawsuits.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: I'm suing, so I'm not suing the judge because those
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: are harder and I don't even want to go down
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: that room. But I'm suing the gl with DCF Department
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: of Chance because DCF didn't tell the court that I
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: was not I was a good mom, and the gl
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: with held the good mom from the court. And then
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: I'm suing the therapist as well. I have a lawsuit
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 2: about to put in against my ex and his wife
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: for conspiracy, fraud, violations on my children's rights. All that's big.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: You know. My families are part of that because I
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: will tell you ninety eight percent of people I talked
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: to on through similar situations they have family members that
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: turn on them.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 4: Yes, And you know, I think what people don't understand
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 4: about true And I'm not diagnosing your ex.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 5: This is not a diagnosis. This is a general statement, okay,
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 5: not pointing fingers. What they do not understand about psychopaths
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 5: is that psychopaths are so cold and so calculated, and
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 5: they're so different than sociopaths. Like sociopaths are so impulsive
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 5: and they trip up and they make mistakes. True psychopaths
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 5: they play the long game.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 4: They're calculated, They plan, and they cross their t's and
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 4: dot their eyes, you know, and then they get away
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 4: with that stuff because they're not acting on impulse. They're
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 4: acting from a place of true hold hearted calculated manipulation.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 4: They they have no empathy. It does not exist within them.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: Does it make him happy when he sees me upset?
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 4: It's all about control. It's not necessarily happiness. Essentially, they
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 4: have to know that they have control or else they
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 4: feel completely empty, like the only thing that makes them
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 4: feel satisfied. And of course there's so many different presentations
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 4: of this, but is just knowing that they have control, right,
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 4: because the emptiness makes them feel so out of control.
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 4: They have no sense of identity. They have no sense
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 4: of you know, true reality of like human quality, right,
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 4: like human.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: And that's why they're good, because they love their cross stence.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 5: They thrive on it. It actually, you know, it feels
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 5: temporarily fills their inner emptiness. And so you know, we're
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 5: not talking about just somebody here with like NPD, Like
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 5: we're talking about people with like ASPD traits and people
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 5: who have like the dark triad Macavelianism, which is, you know,
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 5: the desire to truly coerce and manipulate and hurt people.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 5: And if you're dealing with somebody who's at that level,
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 5: the amount of pain the amount of illegality they're willing
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 5: to risk, the amount of pain that they can inflict.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 5: It's incomprehensible. And so.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: You know, I never make money.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 4: I've never met I've never met a true psychopath face
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 4: to face. I don't think my ex was a psychopath.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 4: I think he had MPD. But you know, I can't
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 4: give your ex that diagnosis.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 5: But if that is what you are experiencing, it all
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 5: lines up with the way that they work and what
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 5: they will do and the lengths that they will go
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 5: to to hurt someone and to have that power and control.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 3: And manipulate so many other people in the process.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's whatever carnage is there. The kids, it doesn't
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 4: matter because they don't feel true intimate connection, they don't
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 4: feel true love, they don't feel the normal things for
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 4: their children that normal parents would.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: So then after all of this, I had ten years
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: with my children, right, and I know they'll be back
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: one day. Yeah, and I know all how grandkids. What
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: does in your opinion, when children go through this and
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: have one parent that is completely different. I'm not going
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: to diagnose no one either completely different. How do children start?
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, are they going to be is my kids
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: going to be damaged forever or you know what I mean,
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: does that make sense?
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 4: I think that they're probably going to need a lot
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 4: of support because what I usually see happen in these
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 4: cases is that when children realize that they had been
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 4: manipulated and that the narrative of the parent who they
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 4: have been alienated against was not the bad parent, it's
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 4: like their world just kind of shatters because like everything
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 4: they know to be true is now not true, and
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 4: they will need some.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 5: Support through that. But usually they are very willing.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 4: To rebond and reattach with the parent that they have
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 4: been alienated against. And so that that's good news for
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 4: you because they will eventually be old enough where you're
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 4: not in the family court system anymore. And so although
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 4: you know.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 5: It makes me release so sad for you that you're
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 5: missing out on so much of their childhood, my girl,
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 5: there's going to be a day where they are going
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 5: to wake up and they're going to go, oh, my god,
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 5: this narrative that I have been given about my mother
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 5: was never true, and I missed out on these years
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 5: with my mother. But the research does show that when
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 5: they find I mean that the rebonding and the reattaching
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 5: can occur. And that's the beautiful, beautiful thing about attachment,
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 5: and that's what my whole platform is about, is attachment.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 5: Attachment is flexible until the day that you die. And
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 5: so there will I know it. I feel it in
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 5: my heart that they're going to reattach to you and
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 5: that you are going to have years and years and
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 5: years with them where they that you will get to
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 5: make up somewhat for this lost time.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: Can I say one thing. I'm so proud of my kids.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, my daughter has my oldest has over one
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: hundred and twenty thousand followers on YouTube.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: Oh wow.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: And she went through a really dark sight. That's a
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: whole other story. But she went the really dark depression,
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: trying and allow herself multiple times, hanging off a bridge
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: because she told the please her dad thing the stuff
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: to her when she was a kid.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 5: But and then she'll has custody.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: Is she aligned with him because he threw in foster
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: and I thought she was going to a mental hospital,
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: look like I couldn't afford her a nice one. And
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: then she kept to them to kill herself, like literally
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: hanging off a bridge and the cops are holding onto
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: her through all this. But that's how this all really started.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 5: See, this is the collateral damage to kids. And where
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 5: are the family court judges? Where are the judges? Where
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 5: are the people standing up and saying, look at how
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 5: the kids are being affected. Of course, if you are
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 5: ripped away from your primary attachment and placed with a
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 5: serious abuser and manipulator, you are going to go through
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 5: some serious mental and psychiatric struggles. Of course, where is
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 5: the support for these children?
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 3: It's not there.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 5: It's not there.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: It's like the state made me get my daughter my
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: rights away because I couldn't afford to put her in
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 2: mental hospital. But yet the friend and their in SIIC
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: interview proved he did it. Prosecutor in Missouri was trying
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: to go after him. Kansas didn't care. But and they
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: told me, you have to give them up to the
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: state so she can get mental help. It was my
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: exit to this. He put her in foster to shut
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: her up. She's fourteen sick, so but she was in foster,
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: and then they wouldn't let me talk to my daughter.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: So I haven't actually talked to my oldest since August
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: twenty twenty three because that's when she wouldn't stay care
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: and then they let him do they let him talk.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: I wasn't allowed. I don't know why, so they got hurt.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: She what did she have to do, Let's say, stay
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: in foster care with seven other kids two hours away
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: or moving with my rich dad. Suck up to him?
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: So she did, and I'm happy the abuser, yeah, the abuser. Yeah.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: And so now you know. So that's why I wanted
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: to help tell her. I love her and I'm proud
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: of her. She looks she's so good on YouTube, she's
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: like making a really good living and she's seventeen and
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: she looks just like me. So it's really hard to
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: go on YouTube because the first day I see is her.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: But I want her to know I didn't give up
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: on her. Yeah, she did email me, mom, why did
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: you put me in here? Like I did it?
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 3: And I wouldn't allow to reply back to her email.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: That she hid to me because they stay told me.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 2: The attorneys in the state told me if I told
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: you was probably back, I would lose all my four children.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 3: I'll listen to that point three.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: So she doesn't even know the truth because I you
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: know so well, you.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 5: Have one more year, and she can't know the truth. Right,
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 5: she'll be eighteen, she'll be ouble see.
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: But she's she's still probably she's spend years of her
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: thinking that I just pushed her off. Why would you
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: side with my father and I go I didn't, but
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: I couldn't tell her that. So we she'll listen to this,
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying. She's she's so big on YouTube.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 2: I'm so proud of her, and I want her and
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: I want I wanted her to know, like I'm so
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: proud of all my children, my twins are the most amazing.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 5: Give me her YouTube. I'll tiger.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 4: I'll tiger in our podcast past we want to what
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 4: do you want to say to her if we tag her?
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: I want to tell her that I'm really proud that
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: she looks so good in her YouTube. Is so I'm
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: so proud of how she's doing her YouTube. She's doing
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: a seventeen and it's so girl. It's not sexual, it's
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: not anything but a really awesome girl trying to help
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: other girls do makeup. It's she didn't go down a
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: bad route on the social media. She could be making
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: fun of people. You know, her content is so authentic
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: and beautiful and she's gorgeous, and I'm really proud of
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: what she's doing in her life. And one day I
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: want her to know that she's always welcome and I
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: never gave up on her.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 5: We're going to do that.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 4: We're going to tag her in this post because let them.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 4: Let them come after me.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: She hasn't blocked me, so I think that she's okay
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: with me. See, she knows I can see it. At
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: least she hasn't blocked me. So that's why I constantly
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: see m hm hm.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: But yeah, and if you could say anything to your
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: other children, what would you want to say?
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 3: All of them?
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: Braiden Tristan. I see Tristan.
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 3: Every week.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: He was the only kid of mine that when they
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: got in the car after leaving their fathers, that kids
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: would all be questioning, Mom, did you do this?
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: Mom?
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: Dad said this? Shelley said this. Tristan would be the one. No, guys,
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: you know mom, Yeah, he has an old soul.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, and he's been in contact with you, so
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 3: that says something, right.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: But he didn't get manipulated to not be in contact.
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 2: The other ones did. He didn't, And so he sees
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: me every week. We say I had the hour so
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: he's I love him and I miss him like we
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: just I just told him and we sit and talk
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: and we used to play VR together, all of us. Anyway,
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: the twins, that's hard because it's Braiden. They're both in
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: competitive and they're so talented. I haven't been able to
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: see my twins dance on stage once, and they've won
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 2: a lot, like big, big things. They took all that,
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: and so I want to tell my twins. I want to.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: I'm still proud. They're they're amazing. Yeah, and when I
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: see them on stage a friend will send me video.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: It kills me sure because I didn't know they could
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: do an aerial. I didn't know they could do this splitz. Right,
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: My twins went from zero dance to the point of
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: the best competitive dancers for their age, and I can't
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: tell them that. Yeah, they have a gift anyway, But yeah,
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: I think that's just My door's always open. Yeah, I
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: don't care if they've talked bad about me or told
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: therapist lies or whatever. Right, my door's always open. My
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: heart's always there and it will never be shut no
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: matter what happens.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 4: And for anybody that's just having an ounce of questioning,
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 4: like is this person legit? Like, is this her side
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 4: of the story really true? Listen, I have seen parental alienation.
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 4: It's happened to me. My ex tried to alienate my
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 4: oldest daughter from me. I lived what it looks like
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 4: for a child to be manipulated against a parent, and
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 4: a child being forced to lie. I've seen it with
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 4: my own eyes. I've had clients who have had it happen.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 4: It happens every single day because she'll N's psyches are
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 4: very easily manipulated. And so if you're like, Okay, well,
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 4: how can all her kids like be against her? Listen,
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 4: it only takes one master manipulator to orchestrate this entire thing.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 4: And so you're on here because it does sound implausible, right,
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 4: it does sound like how this?
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 5: How in the heck could this truly happen?
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: When the children are told that if you tell a
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: lie or tell don't tell this about your mother, you're
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: going to foster. Right, of course, they live because they
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: saw their small sister tell the truth. I wasn't even
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: with her when she went to the police. They saw
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: their sister tell the truth, and she went to foster.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so they live in fear you're living in fear,
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: and it's it's just incredibly unfair. But there is hope, obviously.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: I think that, you know, Meg's talked about that.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: There is a lot of hope that I will say
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 2: the challenge I've gone through of losing my children's horde,
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 2: that God has taken something to good. Yeah, because guess
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 2: what I'm here with you guys. That's right, and more
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: people are going to become unaware of it.
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 3: That's exactly right.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: And I'm helping more people, more kids, it's more parents.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: I literally FaceTime with other moms that got their kids
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: back and their kid wanted to meet me on FaceTime,
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: and that right there, I have to I have to
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: give up my children for this empowering. But I'm helping
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: and we're changing, and you guys are changing in it
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: because we're this. So it's horrible what we go through
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: in life, but let's turn it to good and change
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 2: help and help everybody else. Then you're not we have
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: less women hurt themselves. Are men do things that children?
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: You know? Anyway, I just it sounds so sad with
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: everything gone through, but you know, everything bad, you can
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: make it amazing if you just keep fighting hard. And
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: we never give up.
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 3: There's always you.
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 5: You can't give up, and I've said that before. You
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 5: have to fight.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 4: So Meg, tell us about these federal lawsuits, because, as
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 4: we mentioned before, it's not just about getting your kids back,
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 4: it's about making sure that the lack of due process
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 4: does not cause another mother or father to have their
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 4: kids stripped from them under false allegations, because false allegations
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 4: are probably I would say the number one problem in
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 4: family court. Family court is the only place where people
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 4: can come in and lie through their teeth and there
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 4: absolutely is no consequence for doing so. So tell us
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 4: about these federal lawsuits and what you're hoping to gain
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 4: from them.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: With the federal lawsuits, I'm also focusing on the due
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: process and a lot of people are like, what's due process?
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: It means putting the laws of evidence in, meaning someone
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: should have been on the witness stand. So if anyone's
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: taking the children away, did someone get on the witness stand?
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: If they didn't testify under oath that it's true. It's
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: kind of like when of what women gets raped, they
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: have to get up and testify, and a lot of
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: times they don't want to, so they just drop it,
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: right same thing. It should happen with children. So the
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: other one is freedom of speech. The reason they want
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: us to have these gag orders on us because the
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: more we talk, the more they're going to be exposed.
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 4: Right Yeah, and I know that that was the case.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 4: And you know my custody battle was it was like, no,
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 4: you can't talk to anybody about it. I mean maybe
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 4: your personal therapist. She can't talk to your friends. You're
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 4: not supposed to talk to your mom.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 5: You can't.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 4: Which is you know, if you have a media platform,
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 4: you can't speak out, you can't do anything. And even
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 4: if there's all this corruption, and you think, well I
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 4: need to fight back and I need people to know
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 4: that there's this corruption, they will use that against you.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: I had a mother just text me on the way
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 2: here yesterday. Her she had three kids, to twiplets and
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: the five year old. Her husband left for a whole
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: year with a girlfriend in Europe. And I've looked at
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 2: her case, so I know she's true. He came back,
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 2: the girlfriend wanted him, took the kids away, and yesterday
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 2: she said, I can't speak on social anymore. They're threatening me.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: And she hasn't seen her kids. She's a beautiful young girl,
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: but that is huge. They don't want us to talk.
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: And that's what happened to me. I was on a
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 2: private on Facebook, private little group of friends. I was upset.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: I needed someone to talk to your of course, and
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: it would be like a text mestered email. It was private.
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: My ex logs into everything, found it. Told the courts
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: they try to put me in contemp put in jail.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: My friends are putting bail money together, all because I
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: said something in a private message on Facebook. So that's
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: where I.
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 4: Was like, what, yeah, stamily, court will gag you. And
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 4: that's the very first thing. Even when you oftentimes sign
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 4: on with a returney an attorney and get a retainer
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 4: going with them, they will make you sign something saying
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 4: I agree to not speak about this.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: And so that's why my attorney dropped me a month
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: after because she's.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 5: Like, oh yeah, I've done that twice.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: And I think ultimately the biggest change has to come,
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: like you said, with the due process, getting the proper
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: people in place, but to ultimately protect the children, because
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: the children are really the ones that are suffering here.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 3: Obviously you've suffered.
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: And I'll get over it. I'm an adult, I'm a child.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: You have more capacity to deal with it. And I honestly,
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: I think you and I talked about this once. I
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: believe this system is starting to make these children have
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: relationship problems.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 5: Oh oh, I mean yes, until.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: The generation our next gen.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 4: Right, I mean, we're screwing over a whole generation of
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 4: kids with family court because we're causing them such attachment
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 4: issues because somebody who has an enormous amount of power
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 4: and doesn't know jack crap about what's really going on,
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 4: makes these life altering decisions that affect these kids for
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 4: the rest of their lives.
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: And let's talk about the foundation though. The foundation truly
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: is marriage, and and that's why it's important to pick
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: a good partner, you know, and to have you know,
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: talk about due process, have some due process when it
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 1: comes to who you decide to live your life with,
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: you know, and who you decide, you know, to reproduce with.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 3: And I say that with no judgment because we've all
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 3: sat here and reproduced with shitty.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: People, you know.
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 5: So I'm just like, we can't judge it.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 3: You're right, like, so you have to, you know. I
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 3: think it starts at that core level.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 4: You know, becoming attachment secure before you get into a
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 4: relationship in a marriage, because so many of us, you know,
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 4: maybe we had some good childhoods or even good childhoods,
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 4: but we might still have some issues that we need
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 4: to work on and work through, and we're seeking out
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 4: relationships that are oh.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 5: I'm so ex yeah, you know, Oh my gosh.
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: I was twenty three. I made one mistake, I married
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 2: one person wrong in my life.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 4: I was twenty two, right, you know, it's like you
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 4: don't you don't know jack nothing at twenty twos, anything
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 4: twenty two, And then you're falling in love and then
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 4: there's all this pressure your friends are getting married. So
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 4: then you want to be you know, not left out,
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 4: and you want to get married. And you know, I mean,
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 4: you think it's safe to be pregnant or in your case,
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 4: you know, someone is you know, essaying you and continually
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 4: you know, impregnating you, and not that you would take
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 4: back any of your children, but you know it's.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: The answer, So what is the answer? Divorce sometimes is
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: the answer. But and so therefore when it is, there
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: has to be something in a place that makes it protective, right,
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: And I think that that's your overall goal in trying
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: to advocate for change at.
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 3: The level because I mean, we all know.
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: And again I'll say, just the video that you posted
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: this week, you can go on there and just read
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: the comments. This is a reoccurring theme that tons of
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: people are going through and so it needs to be changed.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: There needs to reform, needs to happen, and that Yeah,
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: and I think, you know, again going back to the
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: silver lining.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 3: Of it all, or the hope in it all, is that.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: Really beautiful things can come from really really hard things.
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: And I think that's why you deserve just so much
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: recognition and so much validation here, Meg, because what you're
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: doing coming from a place of I can't imagine the pain.
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: I mean that's extreme pain. And you are now speaking out.
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: Advocating for yourself is one thing, but you're advocate, you're
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: advocating for so many, For every person, yeah, and every.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: Every children, Yeah, every parent discriminating against anything. If it's
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: a good parent that wants to fight for the child,
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: that child has a right to see both parents.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 4: This is not a mom issue or a dad issue.
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 4: This is a parental issue, and each parent has rights
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 4: to their child.
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 2: Are your children? Where are my children's rights.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly, child's right to be with loving parents.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: And have access to them, you know. And that's what
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: the federal cases that are really emphasizing on that because
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: there's so many attorneys. I'm so I'm soon the next
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: one is soon my excess attorneys. Because if that my
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: ex attorney knows my divorce to create, knows the abuse,
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: but she still represents him, that's a violation. So that's
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: taking my rights away. So that's that's and that's I mean,
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 2: I Sunday, I decided. On Monday, I'm driving DC Dribole, DC.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: Met Rand Paul, one of our big.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 5: Hunger steads are Kentucky.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 2: Met and talked to him three times, walked within the halls.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 3: That's great.
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: Hey remember me. Yeah, we haven't met with my office,
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: I know, but I'm still here, right, you know, have
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: a card. I don't have a card.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 5: I'm a mom.
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, once my kids all right? Rits back Eric Smith,
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: he's in Missouri. So I slept in my car with
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 2: all the truckers McDonald's, you know, all my back. And
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: if a parent's finding that hard for your shot their children,
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: that's not a bad parent.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 3: Hell to the now, Hell to the no, no, thank
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 3: you so much, thank you for telling your story, for
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 3: being here today.
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: We are so appreciative and I know this will be
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: so valuable to our listeners, and listen you guys, stay
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: tuned because this series will continue. We're going to have
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: more wonderful guests. Sarah and I are going to get
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: a little bit more in depth about our own stories.
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: I've never really gotten in depth about my personal story,
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: but that's to come.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 3: And of course our next guest is.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 1: Going to be an attorney, so there's going to be
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: so much valuable information, so stay tuned. Of course, I
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: always have to do a shameless plug and if you
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: are looking for really I mean, doctor Hensley helps with this.
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 5: I can help with it.
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 4: I don't give any legal advice, no, but I can
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 4: help you emotionally cope through the divorce process. And I
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 4: do try to connect people with outside resources, you know,
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 4: for things that I can't help with, but or saving
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 4: your marriage so that you don't have to go through
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 4: a divorce because family court is unpredictable. And I don't
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 4: want people to be discouraged from getting a divorce if
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 4: they need to get a divorce. Because my divorce was
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 4: like I said, one of the best things that ever
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 4: happened to me. But at the end of the day,
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 4: we need to know, you know, what can happen. I mean,
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 4: your story is it isn't the usual, but it's not
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 4: the usual strain. It's the extreme side of what can happen.
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 4: But I think we need to know that this is
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 4: happening to people. And even if it's you know, okay,
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 4: let's say it's half a percent of everybody that gets
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 4: a divorce, that's still a hell of a lot of people.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 5: Yeah, right, it's.
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: Actually two percent they say are bad. Two percent of
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: all divorces are horrible. If you take how many get divorced, that's.
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 3: Still a lot.
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 5: There's still a lot of people and a.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: Lot of children. Take that time, sow many children in one.
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 4: Case, right, And and the majority of people go on
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 4: and get divorced, and yeah, maybe there's tension, and yeah,
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 4: maybe they don't really like their ex, but it all
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 4: ends up working out pretty well. You know, they have
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 4: a co parenting relationship, and you know they may not
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 4: like yeah, and everybody cooperates and it ends up being okay.
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 5: But the system is so flawed. If it's not okay,
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 5: it's really not okay.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 3: That's right, and so you can walk people through that emotion.
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 5: Yes I can. Of course, we'll fold your hand through it,
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 5: and that's right.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 3: For all of our listeners.
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: We offer promo code love dot twenty seven for twenty
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: seven percent off any of doctor Hensley's services, So please
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: go check her out at the love dot dot com.
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: Meg Where can our listeners find you?
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: I stand with Meg on all platforms.
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 3: I stand with Meg on all platforms.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 2: On the website. Stand with Meg dot com. Pretty simple, stand.
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 5: With Meg dot com.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 4: So I found you on TikTok and your platforms are growing,
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 4: you know, and you know when we decide to have
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 4: guests on I usually only choose guests that have really
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 4: large platforms, but I was like, no, my my goal
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 4: here is too in large your platform because you know,
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 4: when I started following you a couple six months or
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 4: so ago, I said, this is the most horrific family
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 4: court case I've ever heard of in my life. And
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 4: you have so many videos of you with your children
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 4: playing and having fun and just your memories and pictures
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 4: and photographs, and there's no way that you can make
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 4: that up.
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: Well, right, do the crying ones so people can see
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: that that's real. They can cry and it's okay and
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: you'll get through it. But I wanted to say thank
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 2: you for supporting someone that is lower on the social media,
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: because when I find someone speaking up, I work my
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: butt off to help them get bigger.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, absolutely, that's our mission.
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 4: I want you to have a voice for all of
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 4: those that are voiceless, that are fighting this exact same battle.
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 4: And you are fighting on the legal front without any
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 4: prior legal knowledge, who you have essentially self taught yourself
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 4: to be a lawyer.
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 2: Well, I can teach myself how doing botox, the filler,
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: I can do with it.
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 3: You're doing all the all the things. Actually, yeah, well
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 3: we're just sorry out that's funny.
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: I like to end on a funny note anyway, So
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: thank you again for being here. Of course, listeners, go
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: check out meg, go check out doctor Hensley, and stay
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: tuned and until next time, peace, love and perspective.